Hi,
rumours on Daemons were part of my Fantasy rumour thread, but now deserve their own due to more info coming in. Seems like there will be a booklet with rules updates for Fantasy and 40k in it, with a few new units and the Souldgrinder also available for Fantasy.
New Rules for 40k and Fantasy: In WD leaflet added to WD August
New Models (all released 4th August):
Plaguebearers of Nurgle (Plastic) 29.00 USD (10 Man box)
Screamers of Tzeentch (Plastic) 29.75 USD (3 figures)
Flamers of tzeentch (Plastic) 20.00 USD (3 Figures)
Seeker Chariot of Slaanesh (Plastic) 29.75 USD (1 Model)
Nurglings (Plastic) 25.00 USD (3 figures) They are indeed 3 nurgling piles, not 3 single nurglings
The Blue Scribes (resin) 40.00 USD
Limited Release: Exalted Seeker Chariot of Slaanesh 59.50 USD (Seems just to be 2 standard chariots in a new box)
Repackaged: Soul Grinder 66.00 USD
Finecast Recasts:
Kairos Fateweaver: $57.75
Keeper of Secrets: $57.75
Flesh Hounds of Khorne: $49.50
Karanak: $22.25
Epidemus: $49.50
Herald of Khorne on Juggernaut: $40.00
Fiend of Slaanesh 1: $24.75
Fiend of Slaanesh 2: $24.75
Fiend of Slaanesh 3: $24.75
The Masque: $16.00
Beast of Nurgle: $24.75
Here the summary by Harry (newest additions in yellow):
Harry wrote:Release Date: Unknown.
However there are rumours that a release of models is coming very soon. (Harry)
Author: There are no rumours of a book at all. Just a wave of models.
Rules: NA
Army book update sheet/leaflet in next months White Dwarf with new rules and updates.
Models: Plastic Plague Bearers. (Erazmus_M_Wattle, manickZe, Harry)
Finecast screamers ... not the old models. New sculpts. (Erazmus_M_Wattle)
Some BIG , gribbly monster type thing. (Not a mammoth. Not a Greater Daemon). Nurgle specific? (Harry)
Flying chariot. (Harry, Erazmus_M_Wattle)
Herald of Slaanesh on chariot been spotted in warehouses.(Silvertounge)
Soulgrinders in fantasy. Massive rectangle base. (Erazmuz_M_Wattle) This must be the big thing on a monster base I heard about. I wasn't expecting a soul grinder ... Nurgle speciific thing was (clearly)my incorrect assumption. (Harry)
This just in from Rixitotal who has read next months White Dwarf:
"So in next months white dwarf there is going to be a leaflet with updates for Codex daemons and daemons in fantasy.
Some changes to old units, flamers are now only S4 in fantasy and some units have had point changes. ect.
Also new units slannesh massive chariot (2D6 +1 impact hits) and other weird chariot thing in 1 kit. the other thing looks and acts kind of like a mobile meat lawnmower. This is in both games and acts like a chariot in 40K.
Soul grinders are coming to fantasy! has T7 6 wounds and a load of upgrades for its shooting. looks pretty mental.
The model (40K kit) in the white dwarf and leaflet was on the same base as the giant goblin spider.
New models for plague bearers (really really nice, some have fly heads)
Screamers (look similar but with lots of eyes),
Flamers (similar)
Nurgalings (looks like a pile of funny little germ monsters you might get in a dish washer advert).
More confirmation of this and some more details from my inbox:
Chariot kit has two builds. One has four daemonettes and a herald called an exalted with a big whip. The other build has the exalted on her own but the chariot is dragging spiked / bladed rollers behind it.
Soul grinders comes on the same base as the Arachnarok spider. Shooting attacks. One attack works like grape shot but can be upgraded. Another works like a stone thrower.
Blue Scribes gets a mini. More Dais than disc.
More confirmation posted by thebitzbarn:
Well it looks Like August new releases are all Daemons.
AUGUST 4th
Plaguebearers (Plastic) 29.00 USD (10 Man box)
Screamers (Plastic) 29.75 USD (3 figures)
Flamers (Plastic) 20.00 USD (3 Figures)
Seekers Chariot of Slaanesh (Plastic) 29.75 USD (1 Model)
Nurglings (Plastic) 25.00 USD (3 figures) They are indeed 3 nurgling piles, not 3 single nurglings
The Blue Scribes (resin) 40.00 USD
Also a relaunch of Old Metal Deamons into Finecast and then on 18th of August a relaunch of Fantasy Beastmen in Finecast
Further Down The road: All 4 greater Deamons will get plastic kits (with head/weapon options plus wfb/40k specific bits on sprues) and that there will be "resin conversion packs" to make "named greater Deamons". (Hastings) No idea of timescales on this. I am not expecting them to arrive together Or with this wave. (Harry)
Jes Goodwin is rumoured to be doing the Bloodthirster. No timescale for this. (NatTreehouse)
Official Teaer video:
It features:
Meijin from Warseer wrote:1 Khorne bloodcrusher from WFB Army Book cover
2 Soulgrinder from W40k Codex cover
3 Beast of Nurgle from W40k Codex cover
4 Nurgle plaguebearers from W40k Codex cover
5 Daemonettes of Slaanesh from WFB Army Book cover
Harry wrote:Well it looks Like August new releases are all Daemons.
AUGUST 4th
Plaguebearers (Plastic) 29.00 USD (10 Man box)
Screamers (Plastic) 29.75 USD (3 figures)
Flamers (Plastic) 20.00 USD (3 Figures)
Seekers Chariot of Slaanesh (Plastic) 29.75 USD (1 Model)
Nurglings (Plastic) 25.00 USD (3 figures)
The Blue Scribes (resin) 40.00 USD
Also a relaunch of Old Metal Deamons into Finecast and then on 18th of August a relaunch of Fantasy Beastmen in Finecast
That's all I have
(...)
A couple of tweaks on a sheet/leaflet stuck in WD does not a WD list make!
It may be more than a couple of tweaks but not as much as a WD list ....
My sense of it is it is not that big a document ... in fact I am given to understand it has the fantasy info on one side and the 40K info on the other?
Please, please, pretty please with a cherry on top, O God of Pie and Rumours, tell me that it's 3 BASES of Nurglings for $us 25, and not three poor Nurglings lost in a blister ...
They are indeed nurgling piles, small mounds of nurglings if you will ... not sure what the collective for nurglings would be ... a turd of nurglings possibly. (...)
Releases getting shuffled backwards and forwards seems like complete nonsense to me.
I promise you that whilst changes do happen but 9 times out of 10 the original rumours were wrong.
having said that ... The fact that the Daemons stuff is on an additional sheet/leaflet would suggest that in this case there may have been some jiggerypokery of some sort I grant you.
If this had been planned three months ago then the Daemons would have been in the pages of WD .... wouldn't they? I guess we will know a bit more when we see the rest of the content.
Ludaman wrote:
does the "Single Print" next to new chariot of Slaanesh means it will be available for limited period of time for retailers and later on all the selling will be restricted only to GW stores? Or we are deep in some nurglish substance and be able to buy it only for limited period of time from any source, just like for example cards with magic spells? Harry?
I can answer that, there are 2 versions, one with a herald, that version's a limited run.
(...)
Oh I don't have an inside scoop, but my guess would be its an online only promo (like the old Khorne herald on Juggernaught) of the plastic chariot which includes a finecasted herald of slanesh (or extra bits to make one).
The only frame of reference I have is from when I worked at a lgs a few years ago, games workshop's limited edition items (like Harry the hammered) would appear in a similar format to what's on that page.
I could be completely off though, as it's all guesswork...
But holy moly it's 30$ more expensive! That Herald better be cast in adamantium....
TheDarkGeneral wrote:I mentioned it on the 40k side of rumors a few times in the past year, but I was told that Daemons in both Fantasy and 40K will get a simultaneous release (again) sometime next year close to the summer months. This includes the new plastic kit greater daemons and 3 to 4 new units all together.
Stickmonkey wrote:This is what I'm hearing as well. Along with Furies and other chariots.
I'll add that I've heard persistent rumors that A:oC and C: are currently being worked on for future release, with lots of implied coinciding with the GD refresh. I'm not sure I can buy it yet, there are a lot of Fantasy and 40k projects that are underway that I fully expect beforehand...
Don't buy stock on that rumor just yet, I mean to say...
Starchild wrote:My source says the plastic multipart greater daemons are due for Summer 2013 alongside the new Eldar Avatar (which is a greater daemon too!)
I don't know if it has been mentioned yet but some of the Chaos Daemons have been removed from GWs website (e.g. you can't buy the anymore). I'm assuming this confirms the rumors on pretty much everything.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
RiTides wrote:The leaflet in white dwarf is what interests/excites me. Nice to have an update to old rules in any form, really.
When would this white dwarf hit... early August or late? I don't subscribe but would like to snag it in the store for the leaflet, just out curiosity.
I'm guessing it's going to be late July (e.g. the 28th) since WD comes out at the end of every month doesn't it?
I am so deliriously happy to be able to run a total plastic Tzeentchian daemon force. If the new cult troops for Chaos are all plastic (which rumors say is not the case, sadly) then I'm starting a Thousand Sons/Daemon Allies force!
Even if not, maybe I'll run Word Bearers/Cultists and Flamers/2 Horror Units/Screamers/Daemon Prince. And for the Allied HQ, I can use some horrors and a Screamer to make a Herald on Disc.
Harry wrote:Plaguebearers (Plastic) 29.00 USD (10 Man box)
Flamers (Plastic) 20.00 USD (3 Figures)
That's pretty funny.
Yeah....
If their 20.00 dollars in the US, and currently 20.50 in the UK....
Cheaper prices?
They are making up for it with the eagles, thats one unbelievable hike for such old sculpts. But then, the warp spiders and warlocks are past voting age so...
Think I'll go with some gamezone ones instead, lot cheaper and better looking
Hell yeah! I can finally justify having 5 Soulgrinders. And there is hope of finally getting the other chariots i would think. The Skulltaker can finally leave Ganfalfs alone. lol
Coolest part of the video, the coming next month part at the end frmo the back of WD. That is a pic from the librarian page in the DA codex. Looks like September IS going to be the starter of DA vs CSM.
The Daemons are pretty badass too.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Looks like I will be spending some cash on my wife's Daemons coming soon.
Huh...huh....TAKE MY MONEY!! Those chariots are awesome, plaguebearers are much better than the metal ones, Nurglings are great, and making screamers and flamers plastic is an amazing idea too, even though I have enough already (well, maybe more flamers). A 6th edition (probably) and 8th edition (probably) rules tweak in the articles sounds awesome. And the articles get released Friday? WD, here I come. I will get a couple copies of each kind of chariot, I'd imagine...
Looking at it, the Exalted Chariot looks like a combination of two of the regular Seeker Chariots. A lot of the same bits are there. This may be why it's a limited print release, since you can also make it with two seeker chariot kits.
I like the Plague Bearers, but the paint job and fuzzy image does them no justice, while the Nurglings look awesome but both share one major factor, they look 'cartoony', specifically the Nurglings, it's not bad, but it still looks far better than the older models, far better. Flamers are awesome, and cheaper too! 12.30 instead of 15.50!
Nurglings are poor IMO. look way too silly. The plaugebearers look nice, and I'll do a block of 30 in next 6 months for sure. Different paint scheme for sure, more of a yellowy brown.
How many points do flamers cost now? Dollar cost is still LOL but I have a ton of the old beak-head flamers so one box to add flavor is all I need.
The chariots look AWESOME, and I'm not really a Slaanesh fan. Scribes are ... eh. At least they get a model - I just had hoped they looked as cool as the Herald.
Images are too blurry to make out too much. Though the chariot has the potential to look awesome. The 4 mount chariot must be the Exhalted Chariot and would somewhat justify the extra $30 over the regular one. No opinion on the plague bearers yet. The nurglings from what I can make out are straight out of the original Realms of Chaos:Lost and the Damned. Anyone complaining about the cartoonyness of them never saw this book. They were originally crazy demonic little pikachus in the art. Not sure I like the pile o' nurglings layout though.
All those new models look good to me. All the sculpts look good and fresh. Also good to see some new units. Now I just need a reason to incorporate those models into the Armies that I play.
I took that youtube vid, downloaded it, then looked for the best frames that showed the new models / rules. These images are the ones I got. Please let me know if they dont work.
Screamers look to have gotten some serious stat upgrades? Still WS3 but now 2 wounds, I4, 2 base attacks! Rather significant upgrade for their non-vehicle killy secondary role. Their "bladevane" attack I think got better but hard to read that.
Flamers got another wound (that's on top of their ridiculousness with Overwatch now) and another point in Initiative! They still suck in CC, but can at least beat up IG now.
I know we can't post point costs on here...but can anyone tell if Flamer points changed? I see the point cost for the upgrade model, but I can't tell if the regular models changed in points. Hoping not, but their current point cost with these upcoming stats would probably quickly swing them into the placement of "most broken unit in 40k." And strangely, I'm good with that
Screamers went up 9 points it looks like. Flamers went down in cost it appears? Too blurry to really make out, but it looks like they went DOWN 12 points a model?
timetowaste85 wrote:I only took 3 flamers per squad anyway-not a nerf for me. 12 points down though would be beyond phenomenal.
This.
Also, I can't quite make out the text, but it looks like on the right-hand page it says something like "May include up to six additional Flamers for XX points". I exact number of points is a bit blurry, but it looks like the first number is a 2.
I know i'm going to be including more flamers in my army.
I love Daemons. My wife has a Daemon army. This is just the kick I needed to help her bring the points value up to 1500.
I also love how out of left field this release is.
Well, out of left field based on the rumors from the last year.
I'm not sure how this will change my Daemon list yet. I think I need to ponder how to use the chariots before I alter my mix of screamers and flamers.
Flamers got a bit less survivable against shooting from losing the 4++ but are WAY cheaper to make up for that (and really, they died like dogs even at 4++). Deep strike changes and overwatch make them absolutely brutal to some armies (even Tallied Plaguebearers will have to watch out!). Since they have Bolt I may actually completely replace small Horror squads with them at their lower price. Interesting.
Screamers got way better. And cheaper. They were already pretty good in 6e, but this may put me over the top to using two squads of 5-6 and just fire and forget them at any vehicles (especially Manticores).
Wonder if they'll FAQ the save-all Tzeentch daemons had a 4++, so I'm not sure why they would remove it. I assume the BRB says that all models with the Daemon rule have an automatic 5++, because if you combine just this article and the codex, it would appear flamers have NO save now. Something will probably get fixed. I can't see flamers being the ONLY Tzeentch daemons to lose their 4++.
Revarien wrote:Cheaper plaguebearers, eh? That's a new trick for GW...
Now I can actually fill out ranks of them for fantasy... and just keep my metal ones for 40k...
All daemon troops have gone down in price since being redone in plastic. No surprise there really.
blood reaper wrote:I like the Plague Bearers, but the paint job and fuzzy image does them no justice, while the Nurglings look awesome but both share one major factor, they look 'cartoony', specifically the Nurglings, it's not bad, but it still looks far better than the older models, far better.
The plaguebearers look damn good from what I can make out. You can tell the faces are not as "derpy" as the previous ones. Elsewhere it was mentioned there were alternate heads, including a fly head, so should be really sweet kit! Nurglings are supposed to be silly, and aside from the previous metal incarnations were always the comic relief of Nurgle. This can still be seen in a lot of the Nurgle models done by FW. They are a tad bigger than I expected, but they will also make a nice palaquin of nurgle with minimal work.
nolzur wrote:So, a bit curious as to why the plaguebearers have multiple horns? In the fluff it states that they have one eye and one horn.
Most of them do have one horn and one eye, but many nurgle units also have antlers, which appears to be in the unit champion and "command" models. It's most likely a way to differentiate them from the rank and file models, and is totally within the established fluff for Nurgle daemons.
Seriously happy with the Nurgle units, and well worth the 2+ year wait on plastic plaguebearers. They turned out about as good as I could have expected. Really having to contain myself and not go full out on purchases with CSM around the corner. Definitely adding a nice allies contingent for the Death Guard!
So from the YouTube video, it appears that the Chaos Daemon update strictly adds new units. I didn't see anything in the insert or in the WD that changed anything in Codex: CD.
However, based on the fact that they included new rules for Slaanesh 'Chariots' (whatyaa know, lets actually give units with the name 'chariot' actual rules for chariots out of the 6e rulebook!), I would like to think that this would imply that they are going to have a big update (Errata / FAQ) to Chaos : CD in the near future.
If they don't errata / faq Codex : CD, then some of the units would seem a bit disjointed, especially when it comes to the Tzeentch saves and Slaanesh 'Chariots' and the other Marks still using the old 'non-chariot' rules.
Between FAQ, WD booklet and codex book. It will be a big mess having to bring all three to tourneys, especially if he rules don't line up between them all.
spaceman spiff wrote:So from the YouTube video, it appears that the Chaos Daemon update strictly adds new units. I didn't see anything in the insert or in the WD that changed anything in Codex: CD.
Aside from the changes to flamers you mean?
Loving the new nurgling sculps, it is a shame that they don't really have a place in a 40k army. It is great to have plastic plaguebearers, but the new models are just not all that great. It might be the paint. The new slaaneshi models look great, like most slaaneshi stuff. I wonder if the new units will be making their way into people's armies any time soon.
Having never taken BoT on my flamers, this change doesn't bother me. Costing the same as a naked Scout squad instead of a little over 100pts for my flamer squads? Hell yes!
At first I wasn't too excited about this release never a fan of daemons having their own codex especially in 40k but then realized that this additional pamphlet thing could mean new big thins for everyone maybe a way to put out cool new stuff and update armies without a brand new codex, could truly be the right path, I know they kind of did it with sisters but not their own pamphlet if this is the path GW is going to keep us up to date between codex releases and give us new stuff for our armies bravo GW.
timetowaste85 wrote:Having never taken BoT on my flamers, this change doesn't bother me. Costing the same as a naked Scout squad instead of a little over 100pts for my flamer squads? Hell yes!
This. Again.
30 points for Bolt on the old Flamers was way too much for a squad that I normally used as a suicide unit to kill bunched up enemies. I think 30 point might still be too much for the new flamers, but I won't miss something I never used.
Flamers : +1 Wound, +1 Init, 5++ invlun save from daemon rule
: 23 points a model
: 5 points to add a character with +1 attack (good for eating challenges)
: Max size of 9
: No more bolt
Screamer Changes : +1 Wound, +1 Init, 3 attacks, 5++ invlun save from daemon rule
: 25 points a model
: Lamprey's Bite : AP 2, STR 5, Armorbane
: Max size of 9
: Jetbikes
HellFlayers : Cost the same as a bare bones C:SM predator
: Aluress has same stats as daemonette with +1 Attack
: AV 11 on front and sides, 2 HP : Gain extra attacks = to the number of unsaves wounds from hammer of wrath hits.
Seeker Chariots : Come in squads of 1-3 (can combine with Exaulted)
: 20 points cheaper than a Hellflayer
: Aluress has same stats as daemonette with +1 Attack
: AV 11 on front and sides, 2 HP : Rolls 1d6 hammer of wrath hits for every hull point left. STR 4, AP-, Rending
: Exaulted chariots have 4 HPs for more hammer of wrath hits.
Herald of Slaanesh : 10 point discount if you put her on a chariot (you still need to pay for the herald)
: The old chariot is no longer an option -- it seems to have been replaced
Thanatos_elNyx wrote:How often did anyone take Bolt with Flamers anyway.
yeah flamers were 3-4 guys deepstriking in your face and erasing expensive unit then they die.
if they didn't die. they would erase another.
bolt was just extra cost because all you wanted was to remove foot on the drop.
Flamers - These units are full of win. Dropping 3 templates that ignore armor saves and wounds on a 4+ is going to be very good.
- Assuming you hit 3 models per template, 6 of these flamers can be expected to kill every model within range of the flame templates.
- Since they all have flamers, very few units will risk an assault on these guys.
Screamer Changes - Getting 3 attacks per model means that your going to hit vehicles on an average of twice per model. The average AP will be 13, so with 3 models you should shred most vehicles.
- Whats unexpected is how good these got at killing MEQ/TEQ. They went from being near useless to having a STR 5 AP2 attack. Unless its altered, 6 of these assaulting a unit will have 24 STR 5, AP2 attacks. That's 10 dead MEQ, and will crush TEQ that does not have a 3++
- As jetbikes these units can travel 36" per turn, so there is nowhere on the board they cannot be on turn 2.
- As jetbikes they get a 4++ jink when they turbo-boost.
- These are now the daemon version of wraiths IMHO. While they are not as resilient as wraiths they are faster and pump out more damage.
HellFlayers - A decent unit. A beautiful model. Why would you ever bring this over screamers?
Seeker Chariots - The ability to do massive amounts of HoW hits is very appealing. 3 of these chariots could do 12d6 HoW hits or 40 hits. Owch!
I'm just looking at the idea that the chariots can move 12" and then charge 2d6" but with fleet can re-roll. That's pretty damn nasty, especially being immune to bolter fire from the front/sides.
This and screamers are actually pretty insane. If you wanna give your flying DP's.
I never took bolt on the old flamers, but I was hoping they would be a more resilient platform in 6e and I could drop some points from my squishy Horror units.
I'm somehow quite disappointed that the we got neither the new flyers or the new CSM. Nevertheless these Daemon models are very good. The chariot is obviously sweet but I do like both the Plaguebearers and the Nurglings too. They are comical just the right way.
the slaanesh stuff.....ok it'll look better with the old metals riding it. the plaguebearers look far to happy/fat/cartoony and the nurglings just make me cry. the flamers are no longer smooth and flowing, their boxy and wooden.
I have a lot of hate for the blue scribes but the squigs with legs that they call horrors have never looked good to me anyway
so rather than twisted, hellish looking warp spawn we get more comical recasts of the old, old metals. thanks GW....thanks -.-
Looking at the pictures, it seems none of the daemons have an armor save. I saw several people mention that this means they should get a 5++, as the BRB now defines daemons as having a 5++ save and fear. However, the Daemon rule is also defined in the codex, and the rule book states that when this happens, you must use the rule in the codex. The rule in the codex for daemons says nothing about a 5++ save however. The FAQ for the daemon codex was updated to state that the Daemon rule in the codex now also includes fear, but there is no mention of it now also including the baseline 5++ save listed in the rulebook.
This would seem to indicate that none of the new daemons have a save. The only way around this I can see, is that the codex defines the Daemon special rule used by all models in the book as including the four special rules listed on page 27. It's possible that this could be used to argue it simply includes these rules, but is not limited to them, and therefore also includes the rules in the rulebook. I'm not sure why it would be necessary to explicitly state that daemons in the chaos daemons codex have fear in the FAQ though if this were the case. If GW did it simply to clarify, it seems strange that they didn't also clarify the issue with the 5++ baseline save.
Clearly the new daemons use the baseline 5++. Even if you want to start a YMDC thread, the entries are not in the old Chaos Daemons codex they are in a WD codex and the Daemon rule will reference the BRB version.
TzeentchNet wrote:Clearly the new daemons use the baseline 5++. Even if you want to start a YMDC thread, the entries are not in the old Chaos Daemons codex they are in a WD codex and the Daemon rule will reference the BRB version.
I was thinking this too, but if that is the case, then the new daemons don't use the four rules on p27, as they instead use the Daemon rule defined in the BRB. This causes all sorts of problems, and can't be what they intended. For example this would mean that they don't arrive via daemonic assault, and none of the new units have eternal warrior.
Anyone know if the rules update says anything about this? Or am I overlooking something silly?
The Slaneesh stuff looks pretty cool. Nurglin' look way too happy, like they've never seen the grim dark. Props to the Daemonette stuff tho, srsly cool.
Flamers just got amazing.
Not sure about screamers. Sure they'd smash MEQ in assault, but looking at my current flying circus build I can't see a space for them. I wouldn't want to ditch a FMC, and I need enough horrors to hold ground.
Also we don't know that they don't retain the 4++. Keep the jury out on that one.
The nurglings just look really "plain" in my opinion. Not sure how to describe what it is I really don't like about them but they're kinda "meh" for me so far.
The flamers I agree on, the old ones were definitely better. These new models seem a little more "stiff" or wooden, and I also don't like the inclusion of gakky-looking plastic fire all over...I think they were better off without it. I also didn't like the new horrors when they came out either, they looked almost comical in comparison to the old metals and that's not a look I like for Tzeentch daemons. Screamers look the same as far as I can tell.
Sidstyler wrote:The flamers I agree on, the old ones were definitely better. These new models seem a little more "stiff" or wooden, and I also don't like the inclusion of gakky-looking plastic fire all over...I think they were better off without it. I also didn't like the new horrors when they came out either, they looked almost comical in comparison to the old metals and that's not a look I like for Tzeentch daemons. Screamers look the same as far as I can tell.
I agree on the flamers (old ones were better). Its possible though, that being a plastic kit, we can choose not to add all the flames. This would be really cool, as I'd keep the flames to use on other models and just tone them down a bit on the flamers.
My God that chariot looks stupid. I like the plaguebearers, antlers are cool. Nurglings...bit too uniform them piles, are they doing a show? Some sort of county fair motor bike stunt style? Flamers look like the old ones but not as good. I'm glad they're all failcast.
Testify wrote:Flamers just got amazing.
Not sure about screamers. Sure they'd smash MEQ in assault, but looking at my current flying circus build I can't see a space for them. I wouldn't want to ditch a FMC, and I need enough horrors to hold ground.
Also we don't know that they don't retain the 4++. Keep the jury out on that one.
Screamers are awesome in their own right. Lets math-hammer out 6 screamers assaulting a squad of 10 standard MEQ.
The MEQ will fire 16 bolter shots, 1 MG shot, and 1 krak missile at the screamers.
Bolters will do .86 wounds (1/6 hit, 1/2 wound, 2/3 unsaved, 16 shots)
1 MG will do .09 wounds (1/6 hit, 5/6 wound, 2/3 unsaved, 1 shot)
1 krak will do .09 wounds (1/6 hit, 5/6 wound, 2/3 unsaved, 1 shot)
You can expect the overwatch to do 1.08 wounds.
MEQ in assault will do 2.44 wounds (2/3 hit, 1/2 wound, 2/3 unsaved. They have 11 swings)
Screamers assaulting will do 8 wounds (1/2 hit, 2/3 wound, no saves, they have (24 swings)
If your hitting a GH squad that counter-assaults, or if there are mighty ICs, this mathhammer changes pretty quickly. A buffed squad of those will wreck enough screamers to where the squad wont be much good afterwords.
What makes the screamers bank IMHO is that they can also wreck vehicles just as easily. If you compare them to a bike assault unit (blood claw bikers) the screamers win out.
You can bring 18 screamers and know that you have 3 squads that can deal with nearly every threat in the game (save flyers, and 3++ save models)
Testify wrote:Flamers just got amazing.
Not sure about screamers. Sure they'd smash MEQ in assault, but looking at my current flying circus build I can't see a space for them. I wouldn't want to ditch a FMC, and I need enough horrors to hold ground.
Also we don't know that they don't retain the 4++. Keep the jury out on that one.
Screamers are awesome in their own right. Lets math-hammer out 6 screamers assaulting a squad of 10 standard MEQ.
The MEQ will fire 16 bolter shots, 1 MG shot, and 1 krak missile at the screamers.
Bolters will do .86 wounds (1/6 hit, 1/2 wound, 2/3 unsaved, 16 shots)
1 MG will do .09 wounds (1/6 hit, 5/6 wound, 2/3 unsaved, 1 shot)
1 krak will do .09 wounds (1/6 hit, 5/6 wound, 2/3 unsaved, 1 shot)
You can expect the overwatch to do 1.08 wounds.
MEQ in assault will do 2.44 wounds (2/3 hit, 1/2 wound, 2/3 unsaved. They have 11 swings)
Screamers assaulting will do 8 wounds (1/2 hit, 2/3 wound, no saves, they have (24 swings)
If your hitting a GH squad that counter-assaults, or if there are mighty ICs, this mathhammer changes pretty quickly. A buffed squad of those will wreck enough screamers to where the squad wont be much good afterwords.
What makes the screamers bank IMHO is that they can also wreck vehicles just as easily. If you compare them to a bike assault unit (blood claw bikers) the screamers win out.
You can bring 18 screamers and know that you have 3 squads that can deal with nearly every threat in the game (save flyers, and 3++ save models)
So where are you going to cut in your list to make room for screamers?
Sorry you don't like em DP. I personally looove the chariots. I like the old plaguebearers a bit better.. but the nurglings make it for me, they are the perfect amount of funny.
Stunning models, and cool new rules to boot. I think Screamers are potentially a very powerful unit, but they're also true glass cannons-- so time will tell whether or not they can be effective. One big problem is that they lack grenades and are only WS3, so if you charge a squad of Grey Hunters in cover and they pass Counterattack, each model in the target unit will on average inflict a wound against you before you even get to swing. Not good!
Don't the charging Screamers get HOW attacks as well that could reduce some of the hits back since they are jetbikes? Against lower init armies they got even more brutal, with their increase in I.
Ah yeah, their rules do seem really damn screwy between the BRB, WD Codex, and C. I think it's pretty clear what they wanted though (5++ save, use the C rules for everything else). And perhaps the next FAQ will clear things up. Bueller? Bueller?
Testify wrote:So where are you going to cut in your list to make room for screamers?
Excellent question.
Since I am currently playing a traitor guard army, I plan on losing my russes' to take a bloodthirster, 6 screamers and some troops.
That will help me shore up my IG weakness of assault.
Swara wrote:Sorry you don't like em DP. I personally looove the chariots. I like the old plaguebearers a bit better.. but the nurglings make it for me, they are the perfect amount of funny.
no worries, thats your opinion and I can accept it no matter how wrong it might be though I do also love the chariots, just not the things riding them :3
as for the plaguebearers, GS and hard work and I'll have them grimdarked up in no time
Testify wrote:So where are you going to cut in your list to make room for screamers?
Excellent question.
Since I am currently playing a traitor guard army, I plan on losing my russes' to take a bloodthirster, 6 screamers and some troops.
That will help me shore up my IG weakness of assault.
That's pretty smart. I also have a guard army and something that can take out MEQ/Termies/Walkers is definitely a boon.
I still can't see how they'd fit into a flying circus army but I'll give them a go, the new models look cooler too.
So where are you going to cut in your list to make room for screamers?
I'm not sure how well they fit into the Flying Circus build since you really need tons of MCs for that to work, but they are a *huge* boost to fluffy Thousand Sons armies. All the AP3 bolters are great at killing MEQ but the army has huge troubles killing TEQ and opening tanks. A detachment that includes the Fateweaver, a min squad of Horrors, and a squad of 5 Screamers will add a ton to the effectiveness of that army and still keep the Tzeentch theme.
Amazingly, every Tzeentch model in the Daemons book is now viable in 6th. Fateweaver has always been good. Lord of Change got majorly buffed with the new flying MC rules. A Herald on Disc with a largish squad of Flamers could put out some serious punishment and take advantage of wound allocation by using Look Out Sir. Flamers are better than they used to be and cost 2/3 what they used to. Screamers ruin tanks and terminators. Tzeentch princes with wings are improved as well. Only Horrors are weak but they only have to compete with the book's other weak troops so you don't feel bad taking them.
MEQ in assault will do 2.44 wounds (2/3 hit, 1/2 wound, 2/3 unsaved. They have 11 swings)
Screamers assaulting will do 8 wounds (1/2 hit, 2/3 wound, no saves, they have (24 swings)
If your hitting a GH squad that counter-assaults, or if there are mighty ICs, this mathhammer changes pretty quickly. A buffed squad of those will wreck enough screamers to where the squad wont be much good afterwords.
What makes the screamers bank IMHO is that they can also wreck vehicles just as easily. If you compare them to a bike assault unit (blood claw bikers) the screamers win out.
You can bring 18 screamers and know that you have 3 squads that can deal with nearly every threat in the game (save flyers, and 3++ save models)
You forgot to include the 6 hammer of wrath attacks the screamers would inflict. (Auto hit, 1/2 wound, 1/3 unsaved, so 1 extra wound.)
Also, maximum squad size for the screamers is 9, not 6.
Imagination gone wild.
Too often i get locked into one mindset. At fist i was only going to use the nurgle models from the range in conjunction with my Death guard army. Then my creative side kicked in. I am totally going to model up some Nurgle Flamers of Tzneech. After all nurgle is most likely to have template weapons that kill whatever they touch. I foresee reeling plague bearers that have huge tanks on their backs and nozzles for arms. Nice.
quickfuze wrote:Am I the only one here who thinks that most of these new models look like a$$? I love daemons dont get me wrong, just not impressed.
No, no you're not. The flamers look okay, but I really don't like the plaguebearers (they look like the kind of thing Mantic would turn out - though without the pleasingly low price, and compare particularly badly with Warmachine's Cryx thralls, or indeed Malifaux's rotting bayou things), and the Slaaneshi chariot looks a bit... agricultural.
All I know is a Herald on Disc w/Breath & 6 Flamers is gold now. Especially since Screamers will be able to take over the killing that fiends used to do.
Honestly, Tzeentch just became the most well rounded god. Tons of shots (Horrors), Vehicle & Heavy infantry killing from shooting (Flamers), and vehicle & all infantry killing in CC (Screamers) w/decent support characters & flying DP's.
The Screamers are really nice, but even in my otherwise mono-Tzeentch lists I use a ton of Fiends (I use Dirz sighthound models, they look great and are cheap). They caused all sorts of hate and discontent in 5e and I can't wait for them to tear it up in 6e now that there might be more infantry running around. Six WS4 S5 rending attacks on the charge each plus hit and run (at I5!). They are +5 points over the new Screamers but only the Flamers are any competition in the Elite slots Fiends are the business.
They don't really have any LOS or challenge shenanigans though, which is a bit of a bummer right now, but I'm sure the new Chaos Marines codex will have someone you can herd them around with and smash face.
Looks nice...but still no word that Bloodcrushers gets the hammer of Wrath, or are a bit more faster then foottroops...
IT'S A DAMN RHINOCEROS MADE OUT OF METAL!!!, for flying feths sake!
A RHinoceros can go to a speed of 65km/h on uneven and accidented terrain!
A SM Rhino is supposed to go at a speed of 50km/h on accidented terrain...
See where this makes no sens?..., i'm not asking that they become as fast as bikes or regular cavalry, but they did a special rule for the Monolith, wich is at themoment the only vehicule in the game that is a Heavy vehicule...
So why couldn't they just add a "Heavy cavalry" line?...
And SoulGrinders in fantasy?, really, can you become more lazy than this?...
Now i know that in the ol' days of RoC and 1 and 2 ED of Warhammer, it could ne common to see a Chaos Champion in fantasy with a Plasma gun or Bolt pistol as a reward.
But really...,thats stupid...
oh well at least the fantasy players will have a new unit to play with...
Slayer le boucher wrote:Looks nice...but still no word that Bloodcrushers gets the hammer of Wrath, or are a bit more faster then foottroops...
IT'S A DAMN RHINOCEROS MADE OUT OF METAL!!!, for flying feths sake!
A RHinoceros can go to a speed of 65km/h on uneven and accidented terrain!
A SM Rhino is supposed to go at a speed of 50km/h on accidented terrain...
See where this makes no sens?..., i'm not asking that they become as fast as bikes or regular cavalry, but they did a special rule for the Monolith, wich is at themoment the only vehicule in the game that is a Heavy vehicule...
So why couldn't they just add a "Heavy cavalry" line?...
And SoulGrinders in fantasy?, really, can you become more lazy than this?...
Now i know that in the ol' days of RoC and 1 and 2 ED of Warhammer, it could ne common to see a Chaos Champion in fantasy with a Plasma gun or Bolt pistol as a reward.
But really...,thats stupid...
oh well at least the fantasy players will have a new unit to play with...
Would be nice to see Bloodcrushers become Beasts, as that would help with movement. Might have to wait for a new codex to see if this changes, but we should know for certain if they are a mount option in the new CSM codex and still count as infantry. Chances are that they didn't take this opportunity to update them in WD they will stay the same.
I agree, Soul Grinders in Fantasy is lazy. Period. They have put out so many large monster kits for Fantasy they could have easily come out with something different for Fantasy. Which, I guess, is where the Slaanesh chariot falls in, And boy what a kit. This is the kind of stuff I was hoping for when Daemons go their own codex initially. Getting most of the existing units out of the way leaves me with high hopes for the cool stuff they could release with a new codex.
Hm, the codex update is kind of messy written for the chariots. Sometimes the chariot is fleet, and sometimes the exaulted alluress is fleet, and unit entry is not consistent with armylist when it comes to listing special rules.
The worst part is the hellflayer entry that describe the rule for Fleshshredder, yet leave it out in the armylist.
But I suppose the unit entry/bestiary is more important, giving both fleet and fleshshredder to all chariots.
Have to say I actually quite like all these models, the only thing holding me back from an army was the fact limited plastics but with plague bearers especially, will consider now
yeah, Love the new plaguebearers. and they come with 10 nurgling extras! winning! Not sure about the change in swarm height for the nurglings. I've just stripped 100 metal nurglings, so adding in the extras from the plague bearers should be enough for me...
New slaanesh units and re sculpts for screamers and flamers? I'm not sure why they are adding units and to the codex when they still haven't done models for Ku'Gath or SkarBrand :( :( and I think most of the heralds are missing too??
The chariots look a bit daft, like people have said, they appear to be old school farmers plows. the Spikes should be up front especially if that's what is granting the Hammer of wrath attacks? If i was a slaanesh player I'd leave those off they look dumb.
A FLGS owned by a friend has received an e-mail with the new models (just name and price, of course). Includes Exalted Slaanesh chariot, so not only GW can sell it (but doesn't say "limited" or something similar). And also says that they can't sell either the minis nor WD until August 4th. So, anyone else has similar info? That is the new date for the next WD?
Some more info:
The limited chariot is just a bundle of 2 standard chariots for the price of 2 standard chariots.
Each Nurgling pile (turd?) consists of three parts: Front, middle, back. So you can make 27 pile variants.
The plague bearer sprue contains 10 extra nurglings and some piles of maggots.
As to the models themselves, pretty good, think I'd use all of them if I ever went Daemons. My only issue is the awful paintjob on the plaugebearers, way too light.
GW should probably mix these new flamers in with the old ones, they are so very similar I don't think people can really tell the difference and I think this is a good thing.
I have a Slaaneshi daemon army and all this really means is that I will have to re-base my current herald on chariot onto a large oval base. Might have a look at the rules about this new other chariot and make up my mind then.
I hope this one isn't as mind-fethedly stupid as the Sisters WD dex was.
Always a ray of sunshine, M.
Two things.
One, it isn't a WD codex, it is an addition to the existing codex and armybooks.
Two, the Sisters WD dex isn't considered 'mind-fethingly stupid' by everyone.
Alpharius wrote: So the Herald chariot is not 'limited', the only 'limited' thing is the ability to buy 2 chariots for the price of... 2 chariots?
What were people expecting, a discount, for being loyal kind customers and buying more than other people. Pah.
People can be thankful if doesn't cost more just look at the stupidity GW has given us in the past with things like the Bastion and Chaos Bastion. With the Chaos one costing more than the combined price of a bastion and the chaos bitz sprue you get thrown in with it.
pretre wrote:the Sisters WD dex isn't considered 'mind-fethingly stupid' by everyone.
Yeah, there's some people who simply don't care about it, so they don't, obviously.
And there are some people who quite like it, so they don't, obviously.
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Harriticus wrote:GW adding new models and then a ruleset for them on WD is a very, very good thing. Keeps the game fresh and lets WD have some not-crap content.
A full-scale codex in WD done half-assed like Sisters though is another matter.
Good thing it is a WD addon and not a full-scale codex then!
Harriticus wrote:Only limited release thing I have had trouble finding is the Dark Eldar/Space Marine megaforces.
My Local Gaming store has 3 copies of Dreadfleet dusting up a shelf still.
My favored store still has 2 copies of the DE megaforce on the shelf. If you live near or plan on visiting Albany NY sometime, I can hook you up with the address for it.
Love the PBs, they're better than any of the metals (and I own ALL of them). I'm getting 3 boxes for allies (2x14 and 2 Heralds).
Nurglings are kind of meh, too spindly and tall.
Chariot is ridiculous, it's all over the place and why the heck does it have an armour value instead of wounds?
Flamers and Screamers, whatever, they're the same as metals. I'm getting 9 Screamers since I've never owned any, but I still see no reason to replace my beaky mushroom flamers.
The most important thing in this release is GW's new-found willingness to update crappy old codexes in WD.
If this is real, then outr release schedule changes, That back cover looks like a dark angel / chaos space marine clash, indicating at our starter box in september. That also indicates no flyers within august, which might mean that the september chaos space marine codex is pushed back to october and flyers and starter box is highly unlikely, As I suspect the hype up and advertising will take up september, so much that the possibility of other races getting new models in september seems unlikely. If this is so, we may see a chaos book after the box, indicating an wearly september realease, considering, if we give a week for white dwarf to come, and GW to sell you the box, that the 4th would be a likey date. Give them 2 weeks to finish promotion, and a week to advertise the book, we may see the chaos book back wend of september, maybe 28th. That then mens a week to promotee that book, but then I'm guessing a week of no release, then another week to promote, could mean a mid-october dark angel codex, then a eldar release. close after That would mean another 2 weeks off, GW wouldn't treat us to an immediate release of course. So, If we leave them a month to relax and promote, we have a november flyer release, before GW sits back and sells us the Dark Angel and Chaos megaforces (Because, if they've did it before, they will again. AoBR cam out, what where the years megaforces ? You guessed it, Space marine and orks.) and I'd get at a fantasy boxes beging Vampire counts and Empire. Im noticing no major fantasy updates in my schedule, so maybe novembers free spot to be occupied by something fantasy, I doubt a codex, maybe new models for some of the brettonians (Doubt it) or maybe Chaos Warriors (Awful lot of chaos love this year, with the beastmen finecast, deamon models and CSM codex, why cant my warriors get a nice model or two ?). I think the only unheard of races for updates this year, are Wood elves, Skaven, Chaos Warriors, Brettonian and Dwarfs. Feel free to pick me up on anything.
Another fun fact: The German GW stores and Indies got their WD without the booklet ... but after a busy day GW promised to send them in a second package until Friday
I wonder how the chariots will go in games, they are only Av11 with 2 hp and they cant stay locked in combat, they do have a pretty high damage potential should they hit something though.
Also 40pts for a chariot is pretty cheap I reckon.
Lokitbc wrote:Wait till you guys see the boost that Flamers got plus the significant points drop.... I am still giddy!!!
Is there a post that shows the stat lines for the updates?
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labmouse42 wrote:Flamers : +1 Wound, +1 Init, 5++ invlun save from daemon rule
: 23 points a model
: 5 points to add a character with +1 attack (good for eating challenges)
: Max size of 9
: No more bolt
Screamer Changes : +1 Wound, +1 Init, 3 attacks, 5++ invlun save from daemon rule
: 25 points a model
: Lamprey's Bite : AP 2, STR 5, Armorbane
: Max size of 9
: Jetbikes
HellFlayers : Cost the same as a bare bones C:SM predator
: Aluress has same stats as daemonette with +1 Attack
: AV 11 on front and sides, 2 HP : Gain extra attacks = to the number of unsaves wounds from hammer of wrath hits.
Seeker Chariots : Come in squads of 1-3 (can combine with Exaulted)
: 20 points cheaper than a Hellflayer
: Aluress has same stats as daemonette with +1 Attack
: AV 11 on front and sides, 2 HP : Rolls 1d6 hammer of wrath hits for every hull point left. STR 4, AP-, Rending
: Exaulted chariots have 4 HPs for more hammer of wrath hits.
Herald of Slaanesh : 10 point discount if you put her on a chariot (you still need to pay for the herald)
: The old chariot is no longer an option -- it seems to have been replaced
pretre wrote:the Sisters WD dex isn't considered 'mind-fethingly stupid' by everyone.
Yeah, there's some people who simply don't care about it, so they don't, obviously.
I like it a lot and would run Sisters if the models weren't so dang expensive.
I'm actually in the same boat. I've been picking up used sister modles on the cheap anytime I get a chance, but by the time I get enough to play a game the plastics are probably going to be out. lol
I know my friend is going to be pumped his Nurgle Deamons are no longer in that boat. XD
Oh my Gork, the Nurgle demons look terrible!
The Nurglings are a feature-less mess and the Plaguebeares lack the gross-out feeling of the last metal models.
I really like the chariots... It will be annoying if the exalted is just two regular ones mooshed together (I like that word... mooshed...) Regardless, I think it would make a fine addition to an allied Daemons army (unless I go IG which I still might, waiting on my CSM codex to come out) regardless, I like this chariot.
I think the Plaguebearers look fitting and are more inline with Kugath (all antlery and stuff) Plus they are distended and gross looking. I think people are reading far too into their current paint job to appreciate the models.
How can you not like the Nurglings, they have always been a sort of Daemonic comic relief in my eyes. Little mischievous daemons that harass and annoy. (They remind me of the little gremlins from Looney Toons... this is a good thing in my opinion)
At $40 the blue scribes are indeed expensive, but how long have we all waited for them to have a model? I think it is perfect depiction of the blue scribes and to me is almost a diorama of "a day in the life" of blue scribes.
Screamers... glad they are plastic and HOLY CRAP they seem to be formidable in 40k now.
Flamers... again, glad they are plastic... although I do not know why they made what little changes they did to these little guys (miniature wise, they basically look the same) Although, nice changes on their cost/stats/combat/etc.
Rivet wrote:
How can you not like the Nurglings, they have always been a sort of Daemonic comic relief in my eyes. Little mischievous daemons that harass and annoy.
That's exactly how I've always seen these creatures. Hard to be taken seriously as individuals until they bite you or hundreds of them run towards you.
Rivet wrote:
How can you not like the Nurglings, they have always been a sort of Daemonic comic relief in my eyes. Little mischievous daemons that harass and annoy.
That's exactly how I've always seen these creatures. Hard to be taken seriously as individuals until they bite you or hundreds of them run towards you.
Exactly. I do not think any swarms should be taken seriously (image wise) some might be creepier than others, (I scarab swarm from Tomb Kings is pretty creepy but does not look it) I think the Nurglings look exactly as they should, better than the old ones that looked like miniaturized Greater Daemons of Nurgle, these look like miniature Kugaths and can we all agree that Kugath looks a LOT better than the summoned greater daemon? I mean one is all... I am going to pause here. What I keep referring to as Kugath is the Forge World Great Unclean one, Regardless, this is what the new nurglings look like miniatures of while the old ones look like miniatures of the old great unclean one and can we all agree that the old great unclean one looks the sculptor was.. drunk, high, and bulimic when they sculpted it? It looks like they threw up, thought "I bet I could make art out of that pile of vomit... " Then proceeded to "create" a great unclean one out of their vomit.
Kugath (Forge World Great Unclean One) + new nurgling = new face of Nurgle (still rotten, infested, bloated, and appropriate) vs. Pile of vomit (GW Great Unclean One) + mini piles of vomit (old Nurglings) = old face of Nurgle, undefined piles of vomit (which would be more appropriate for the God of hangovers, not the Plague Father)
Flamers dropped in price by about $1.33 per model. Converting Daemonette Chariots from existing models is now more expensive than the models released and that's without the thresher thing on the back. Screamers dropped a little more than $2 each on the conversion from metal to plastic. Plaguebearers went from $55 to $29 which is pretty nice too.
If it existed and is now coming out in plastic it's cheaper (cept nurglings, they stayed about the same cost).
And the models are nice..and most importantly plastic!!!!
Hulksmash wrote:Flamers dropped in price by about $1.33 per model. Converting Daemonette Chariots from existing models is now more expensive than the models released and that's without the thresher thing on the back. Screamers dropped a little more than $2 each on the conversion from metal to plastic. Plaguebearers went from $55 to $29 which is pretty nice too.
If it existed and is now coming out in plastic it's cheaper (cept nurglings, they stayed about the same cost).
And the models are nice..and most importantly plastic!!!!
wich just made me making a tallymaster from scratch 25 bucks cheaper
I agree. Making the tally master IS that much cheaper. I have been looking for one used on E bay and have missed a few crucial deals (stupid slow connection). Likewise i am looking for the old metal plague bearers as i have been vacilating wildly over the new plague bearers.
Exalted Chariot and 2-3 boxes of plague bearers for me. First I was not happy about the daemons coming out instead of DA or chaos but now am excited. Maybe nurglings, not sure I wanna spend $25 on 3 bases.
I don't understand the hate over the plaguebearers-they look so much better than the derpy current metals. Now, previous edition metals that had boils, sores, a big eye, a tongue wagging out and were bulky...those are better. But the metals that are currently phasing out suck hardcore. They suck harder than a fledgling pornstar. I, for one, welcome our new pus-laden brethren.
I like the fledgling pornstar versions. The new ones just look funky. I have been waffling a bit on the appearance and they just dont look like GW put much effort into them. I want to like them since they are so much cheaper but really, i dont know if i will pick any of them up. Maybe. Maybe.
After playing around with photoshop a bit I think the problem I have with the plaguebearers is the paint job. I think they'd probably look fine with some cleanup of extraneous goo and a better paint job.
So now that Slaanesh gets updated/replaced Heralds on chariots. Does this bode well for a new Tzeentch Herald on chariot? I may not use them as much as I did in 5e, but if this quality is what we can expect, I'll hold out instead of making a more permament kitbash.
even though I said how much I disliked the new daemons (and still do) what I am really happy to see is the little update booklet. hopefully this is a sign that rather than waiting for new codexs to come out, armies can get support without a full update while GW works on the new codex
DPBellathrom wrote:even though I said how much I disliked the new daemons (and still do) what I am really happy to see is the little update booklet. hopefully this is a sign that rather than waiting for new codexs to come out, armies can get support without a full update while GW works on the new codex
Maybe my dreams of less expensive Beastmen Rares will come true!
TzeentchNet wrote:So now that Slaanesh gets updated/replaced Heralds on chariots. Does this bode well for a new Tzeentch Herald on chariot? I may not use them as much as I did in 5e, but if this quality is what we can expect, I'll hold out instead of making a more permament kitbash.
Probably not until the codex gets an update, which may be a year or more. Honestly, I'd say with the plastic screamers you could make a pretty cool chariot. Obviously it may be out done by a proper kit, but I don't think it's worth waiting indefinitely.
Not sure if it's news at this point but Wayland have just put up pre orders for the new demons boxes. One assumes all the usual suspects are doing the same.
sennacherib wrote:I like the fledgling pornstar versions. The new ones just look funky. I have been waffling a bit on the appearance and they just dont look like GW put much effort into them. I want to like them since they are so much cheaper but really, i dont know if i will pick any of them up. Maybe. Maybe.
You could always sculpt some more decay onto them with a little bit of greenstuff
Also I wonder how they would look if combined with Imperial Guard bitz? Would it look like some cool looking Nurgle Guard?
I'm just waiting to see how the Soulgrinder is gonna work in fantasy. Of coarse I'm gonna have to get several layers of dust off mine. As for the nurglings, I saw where it says that 10 of 'em come in the plague bearers box so I may just use them to model my swarms. As for the PB, I love the fact that they are plastic and I like the look, just some really icky colors and some shiney slime and interals and viola!
notprop wrote:Not sure if it's news at this point but Wayland have just put up pre orders for the new demons boxes. One assumes all the usual suspects are doing the same.
Wondering how does that work out... you preorder and they promise to deliver on the 4th? or do you have to wait undetermined time as usual?
notprop wrote:Not sure if it's news at this point but Wayland have just put up pre orders for the new demons boxes. One assumes all the usual suspects are doing the same.
Wondering how does that work out... you preorder and they promise to deliver on the 4th? or do you have to wait undetermined time as usual?
I can't imagine GW will give them a mass of stock, before the official release date, so it could be shipped for delivery on the 4th
You'll (almost cerainly) have to wait
You could try Maelstrom (if you use them) if you want to pre-order as they've got a 20% off GW (Black Library, Citadel Hobby, Lord of the Rings, Warhammer Fantasy Battle, Warhammer 40,000) code GW-SUMMER, valid till 6th August INCLUDING pre-orders (a nice amount off)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Plague Bearers look a lot better in the official non blurry pic IMHO. The detail around the faces was obscured in the earlier leaked images.
i placed a pre order for the limited kit....i picked up my copy of the rulset today, should i stick with the build for the exhalted chariot or try to squeez two out of it?
Matt.Kingsley wrote:I reckon the only limited hing about it is an exalted seeker chariot instruction manual
not even that.
GW, in the seeker chariot description wrote:If you buy two of these boxes you will be able to make one Exalted Seeker Chariot of Slaanesh - an immense construct of four Daemonettes as well as four steeds, not to mention even more threshing blades. The instructions for making this kit are included within the box. Please add two of these boxes to your cart in order to make this model.
The new models are so awesome. The new screamers are beautiful, as is everything nurgle. And finally, I won't constantly be super gluing metal demons back together. Most of all, I am actually kind of amazed at the price point on the plastics. I had thought GW would be charging more for them.
The Blue Scribes look worse than I thought Take any two plastic horrors, some book and scroll bits and maybe get a few of those bookracks from the Empire altar and glue them together.
I really like the subtle updates to the Screamers, and the chariots definitely are making me Slaanesh-curious (the two chariots smashed together doesn't impress me though). Hm, i wonder what combining that with the Vampire Counts chariot might look like ...
Oh, does this finally settle what base the 40K chariots should be on? I know people were doing cheesy stuff like putting them on biker bases.
How dare they LOWER prices on models..... That's just. Crazy!! Grumble grumble. GW must only be after my loyalty. Whatever happened to wanting my cash?? GW is going to pot... I tell you!
Sorry..... Just thought I would Provide the necessary grumble about price on a new release. The models look neat though, and it's good they get an update. Even if it's a WD SOB'ing. Does this mean they will be starter kit, or provide more evidence of chaos getting it and a new book soon?what about the mandatory SM release now? Or I guess DA might get the same deal- a WD update?
The GW site claims 27 different combinations for the nurglings are possible, which is useful info, unless of course you're like me and want to get more than three piles out of the box. Surely there are some sneaky tactics with the sprues that will make this a difficult venture. Still they look awesome, and the plaguebearers do too as well.
Now that we also that WD will be housing exclusive Daemon rules:
Make sure you get a copy of this month's White Dwarf if your even remotely interested in the model range. Phone your LFGS or GW directly. Reserve a copy for yourself.
Because once those articles are gone, there is no legal way save for very expensive Ipad purchases and digital copies to get your hands on the rules.
Those Nurgle daemons have disappointed me. They just look so disappointingly dumpy, especially compared to the previous metal counterparts. Sure, cheaper...but....eh.
WarOne wrote:Now that we also that WD will be housing exclusive Daemon rules:
Make sure you get a copy of this month's White Dwarf if your even remotely interested in the model range. Phone your LFGS or GW directly. Reserve a copy for yourself.
Because once those articles are gone, there is no legal way save for very expensive Ipad purchases and digital copies to get your hands on the rules.
As a sisters of battle player who has had to borrow a friends whitedwarf on a more..permanent basis you are preaching to the...terrible pun.
Rules are out, isn't this just discussion at this point? Time to move, right MODs?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
WarOne wrote:Now that we also that WD will be housing exclusive Daemon rules:
Make sure you get a copy of this month's White Dwarf if your even remotely interested in the model range. Phone your LFGS or GW directly. Reserve a copy for yourself.
Because once those articles are gone, there is no legal way save for very expensive Ipad purchases and digital copies to get your hands on the rules.
I know we can't "share" on the forums, but those of us with scanners can be PMed for copies... right?
Matt.Kingsley wrote:I reckon the only limited hing about it is an exalted seeker chariot instruction manual
not even that.
GW, in the seeker chariot description wrote:If you buy two of these boxes you will be able to make one Exalted Seeker Chariot of Slaanesh - an immense construct of four Daemonettes as well as four steeds, not to mention even more threshing blades. The instructions for making this kit are included within the box. Please add two of these boxes to your cart in order to make this model.
I disagree actually. The daemonettes on the chariot look awful, I'll never understand why they got rid of the 'sexy' version of them and it's such a shame too as the chariot itself looks really good. I mean the older ones looked deadly and femanine, exactly how Slannesh daemons should be... these ones look like slowed crab-unsatisfied sexual desires cartoons from an anime boys sketch pad.
The nurgle daemons look far too cartoony, the last generation of them.. although metal were far more gothic and sinister in nature, how soul devouring daemons probably should look like. Surprisingly enough the Blue Scribes are probably the best new models in my opinion.
I look at the older GW models sometimes and look at the ones now like the Daemon Prince and just think half of them look like they've been taken from a kids Anime, or just kids cartoon and slapped into model form compared to the older counterparts. It gives me far more cynical thoughts regarding the upcoming CSM re-release and any new models we'll get from that.
I like the Nurgling models, but not the paintjobs. Specifically, the daggers - they look like they are made of obsidian, or similar. IMO they would look a lot better if they were made to look really rusty and poisoned.
Why is that exalted chariot think a limited time unit? I have a problem with that for several reasons. First off, if they went through all the hassle of making a metal mold, why limit it? Second, how's that going to work in the future, when people are winning games with it but other people can no longer buy it? It's going to have all the conceptual problems FW have, but worse, since at least everyone can buy FW. I don't play Daemons though, so maybe I'm missing something here. I'm sure you guys will tell me.
edit: nevermind, looks like you can just buy 2 kits to make one later, I should have read the previous posts more carefully.
I keep trying to like the new nurgle models. Keep trying, but so far failing. The description of the nurglings looking like something out of a drain cleaner ad hits it right on the money. Also, i dont think its just the paint job on the plague bearers. The posture with the peanut shaped torso with legs that are way to short for the body length and all bow legged. I dont know. The plague bearers just dont cut it.
I love the Nurglings! Granted; they come from Papa Nurgle himself, however I'd like to think of them as slowly degenerating over time as they grow and fight. They remind me of soap suds! Love them.
Also; I am reminded of the small doodle cartoons in the 5th Edition Fantasy rulebook, if I am thinking of the right one. It featured lots of small, cartoon doodles of Bretonnian Knights charging GUO, Nurglings, Dark Elves and a variety of other fantasy creatures. Anyone else?
I love the new nurglings - I remember that you can probably split them up to make more than the 3 bases worth.
I will also be buying the plague bearers even though I've got 7 of the old metal ones ready to be painted.
Is it just me, or does the Karanak model look atrocious, like some dumb dinosaur/dog combination that doesn't work at all? And since nurglings are 3 wounds per base, you could easily make make far more than just 3 bases with the literal stacks of nurglings they give you.
I think the new Nurgle models fit, fluffwise, and will look nice on the table. Nurgle is a vibrant god of life and laughter, not a morose purveyor of death and gloom, or so I've heard. These guys gleefully spreading disease and contagion all over the place is a wonderful change in the ridiculously spiky, skull ridden 41st millennium.
McNinja wrote:Is it just me, or does the Karanak model look atrocious, like some dumb dinosaur/dog combination that doesn't work at all? And since nurglings are 3 wounds per base, you could easily make make far more than just 3 bases with the literal stacks of nurglings they give you.
well its just a fincast redo...so its bascily still the same.
The "Exalted Seeker Chariot" is just 2 'regular' Seeker Chariots mashed up together - and you'll be able to make one at any time in the future if you pass on this "deal"?
The "Exalted Seeker Chariot" is just 2 'regular' Seeker Chariots mashed up together - and you'll be able to make one at any time in the future if you pass on this "deal"?
Yes.
They're just making it, for the moment, abundantly clear that you'd need 2 Seeker Chariots to make it otherwise.
Got the WD, Flamers and Screamers are now awesome and the Chariots are fugly. Not sure why you would take either Chariot over a Prince in the HS spot though.
Semper wrote:I disagree actually. The daemonettes on the chariot look awful, I'll never understand why they got rid of the 'sexy' version of them and it's such a shame too as the chariot itself looks really good. I mean the older ones looked deadly and femanine, exactly how Slannesh daemons should be... these ones look like slowed crab-unsatisfied sexual desires cartoons from an anime boys sketch pad.
Haha I think I may have hit on how Nurgle uses Slaanesh to spread the blight, you see the Daemonnettes have crabs.
BladeWalker wrote:Got the WD, Flamers and Screamers are now awesome and the Chariots are fugly. Not sure why you would take either Chariot over a Prince in the HS spot though.
Because you can take 3 chariots for 1 HS slot. 3 Normal chariots are 120 points, that can hit potentially for 6D6 S4 hits at I10 that are rending. Then your I6's hit.
BladeWalker wrote:Got the WD, Flamers and Screamers are now awesome and the Chariots are fugly. Not sure why you would take either Chariot over a Prince in the HS spot though.
From the looks of it the hell flayer is a FA choce, so you can take it and a DP!
and, um, I would. 3 chariots over 1 DP for 1 HS slot, I know my enemy will be screaming as they get chopped to death
Just to put paid to the why the exalted seeker chariot is limited edition.
GW said:
If you buy two of these boxes you will be able to make one Exalted Seeker Chariot of Slaanesh - an immense construct of four Daemonettes as well as four steeds, not to mention even more threshing blades. The instructions for making this kit are included within the box. Please add two of these boxes to your cart in order to make this model.
You get a only 1 oval and 1 monster base, so instead of have 3 spare bases, you only have 1. Plus a limited edition box instead of 2 non-limited box Plus only 1 set of instructions instead of 2
Much as I love Slaanesh, I just can't make myself like that chariot as a whole. I like most of the parts: the daemonettes, herald, seekers, and whips, for instance. I like the rotto-tiller parts too. But together its just meh... The exalted version is even worse by being even more spread out and bulky. It doesn't look sleek, fast, elegant or graceful. Fortunately, I already have four converted chariots already. I'll still buy one though, I can always attach the 'death-roller' and chariot bits to a Slaaneshi Predator or something.
Nurgle:
I like the Plague bearers and the nurglings. With some dipping, heavy washes and a bit of water effects they'll be perfect. I'm so weak I'll probably start a Nurgle army when the new Chaos codex drops.
Tzeentch:
I really like the look of these guys. Even the Blue Scribes delivered characterful models. Their rules are also...not bad.
So did they change any of the rules w/ respect to the Nurgle model line. Are plague bearers cheaper, did they give nurglings powerweapon or somesuch? Are beasts of nurgle worthwhile now? Just curious.
sennacherib wrote:So did they change any of the rules w/ respect to the Nurgle model line. Are plague bearers cheaper, did they give nurglings powerweapon or somesuch? Are beasts of nurgle worthwhile now? Just curious.
As far as I know, no nurgle models were changed points or stat-wise. The only ones I know that got changed from their existing forms were flamers and screamers.
sennacherib wrote:So did they change any of the rules w/ respect to the Nurgle model line. Are plague bearers cheaper, did they give nurglings powerweapon or somesuch? Are beasts of nurgle worthwhile now? Just curious.
Sorry to say but no changes on the nurgle front except for the new models, only Tzeentch and Slaanesh got new rules.
I just got the WD too, I have one question though... Did flamers and screamers loose their invulnerable save? There isn't a given armour save stat in the update, and nowhere do I see anything about how all daemons' armour saves are invulnerable (like the note in the codex). Should I assume they still have the 4++ like the stat line in the codex?
greg0985 wrote:I just got the WD too, I have one question though... Did flamers and screamers loose their invulnerable save? There isn't a given armour save stat in the update, and nowhere do I see anything about how all daemons' armour saves are invulnerable (like the note in the codex). Should I assume they still have the 4++ like the stat line in the codex?
They "lost" their save, but gained the daemon special rule, which gives them a 5+ invul.
greg0985 wrote:I just got the WD too, I have one question though... Did flamers and screamers loose their invulnerable save? There isn't a given armour save stat in the update, and nowhere do I see anything about how all daemons' armour saves are invulnerable (like the note in the codex). Should I assume they still have the 4++ like the stat line in the codex?
They "lost" their save, but gained the daemon special rule, which gives them a 5+ invul.
Yeah, but in the daemons codex, they already had the daemon special rule, and like I said a second ago, a 4++ invulnerable save.
Also, the Daemon special rules doesn't give a 5++ to a model with it, it simply makes the listed armour save an invulnerable save. Sine none of the update models have a save listed, I can only assume they either lost the save altogether (massive nerf) or GW simply forgot to list the saves.
greg0985 wrote:I just got the WD too, I have one question though... Did flamers and screamers loose their invulnerable save? There isn't a given armour save stat in the update, and nowhere do I see anything about how all daemons' armour saves are invulnerable (like the note in the codex). Should I assume they still have the 4++ like the stat line in the codex?
They "lost" their save, but gained the daemon special rule, which gives them a 5+ invul.
Yeah, but in the daemons codex, they already had the daemon special rule, and like I said a second ago, a 4++ invulnerable save.
Bassicly you just lost the ++4, for a ++5. But got extra wounds instead. The new rules replace the old ones, you don't get to pick and choose the best parts from the two.
Needless to say the new rules for the screamer's jaws, and muti-wounds make screamers one of the best anti-Termy units in the game. Heck even pallidens are going to think twice before getting into CC with that unit!
Also strangely the Pink Horrors keep their ++4sv after this is all said and done.
Other than screamers and flamers, everything that is currently in the daemon book keeps the save it was listed with. Only screamers and flamers saves have changed.
Interestingly, if the "Daemon" rule in their profile refers to the Daemon rule in the rulebook - they would have lost Eternal Warrior as the Rulebook "Daemon" only gives a 5++ and Fear.
However, if the "Deamon" rule refers to the one found in Codex: Chaos Daemons, they have no save as "A model's saving through is invulnerable" which they wouldn't possess.
Games Workshop is really getting great at White Dwarf updates...
And the FAQ tells us to add Fear to the Codex deamon traits instead of saying "replace this section with deamon USR" or something.
I had not thought of EW not beeing in the USR.
'The aspect of Tzeentch's Daemon's that is immediately noticeable in Warhammer 40,000 is that their invulnerable save is better than that of other Daemons of Chaos, making them tough to kill'.
Screamers and Flamers must still be 4++ or this statement doesn't make sense.
'The aspect of Tzeentch's Daemon's that is immediately noticeable in Warhammer 40,000 is that their invulnerable save is better than that of other Daemons of Chaos, making them tough to kill'.
Screamers and Flamers must still be 4++ or this statement doesn't make sense.
Then the sentence after that says that Warpfire is as strong as a Heavy Bolter... which it is not. The Blue Scribes later in the issue have a 4+ save but none of the codex update stuff has any saves leaving me to think that it's a 5+ from the Daemon USR.
On the subject of Chariots, I don't care if they cost 10 points and give 10d6 Hammer attacks... they are ugly. LOL I'll stick with Princes.
Fayric wrote:And the FAQ tells us to add Fear to the Codex deamon traits instead of saying "replace this section with deamon USR" or something.
I had not thought of EW not beeing in the USR.
Yeah GW are going to have to FAQ the eternal warrior special rule, especially now that screamers have 2 wounds. This is why WD rules are always frond upon leave more loop holes open then closed sometimes.
I would think EW from the Invulnerable section of the Daemon special rule in the codex still applies. The FAQ they released appends the Daemonic Assault and Daemonic Rivalry rules which are part of the Daemon rule. But not putting saves on any of the stat lines is just asinine. It's not like putting a 4++ or a 5++ would have used more ink than a dash. And now it forces players to reference 3 books (Update, Codex, and Rulebook) to figure out what applies to their units and has just opened up the debate of what is actually applied.
I had high hopes that the GUO had his stats changed along with the KoS; their profiles were missing from their page on GW, and I thought perhaps that is because they were going to change. Dunno...probably just a page formatting error or something, as nothing changed about them.
In my opinion, the Exalted Seeker Chariot is rather ridiculous in what it can do; VERY cheap for what it can do and that many hull points....? Hm, I never took HS before, but methinks that is about to change.
Fayric wrote:And the FAQ tells us to add Fear to the Codex deamon traits instead of saying "replace this section with deamon USR" or something.
I had not thought of EW not beeing in the USR.
Yeah GW are going to have to FAQ the eternal warrior special rule, especially now that screamers have 2 wounds. This is why WD rules are always frond upon leave more loop holes open then closed sometimes.
What? No. It's bad enough that when the Daemons deep strike they just sit on their hands for a turn to get shot at, usually out in the open. It's bad enough that their deployment is random. Don't take away the Eternal Warrior that ALL Daemons get. It's the only thing that keeps certain things playable! It's a point of survivability, especially when all saves are 5+. Please don't suggest that one of the only points of survivability Daemons have been changed or removed.
The metal plaguebearers were soooo much better... glad I bought some lately and hopefuly some cheap auction of them will show up.
Might be the usual crappy GW paintjob but doubt it, the metal ones looked really sick while the plastics look like a soccer team with those healthy straight postures. Happy necrons, happy nurgle, what now, happy tyranids?
Chariot is better though, still has issues but nothing like nurgle line.
Actually, after painting the new PBs--they are really great kits. Lots of options, good posing--and man they take to my scenic bases a hell of a lot easier .
oC and C:
Take any two plastic horrors, some book and scroll bits and maybe get a few of those bookracks from the Empire altar and glue them together.
