The live QnA we had here last night was a ton of fun, and there was so much information that it was very hard to keep up with it.


Here is the latest and greatest on the QnA, organized and hopefully easy to read. I am tired, and hopefully got all the information down.


Please thank our special guest for taking several hours out of his evening to answer our questions, I know he got to as much as he could. Also great job guys, everyone was at their best, and that is what makes an event like this work. I hope to get things like this in the future. This one was as much of a surprise to me as it was to you.


Chaos Space Marine Codex
As of July 25th, CSM book is set to release in September along with the starter (though not the same week).


General
Having not had an extensive amount of time with the rules, from what I have read so far, there seems to be a theme of if you want it, you can have it, but you have to pay.

Basic CSM squads actually end up cheaper than a tactical squad if they take only 2 special weapons and their aspiring champion has bp/ccw.

It's possible, however, to clear 400 points on a 10 man squad with a transport.

There does seem to be a ton of possible army lists that can be built out of it though, and that's really exciting, but at the end of the day they're just marines and nothing has jumped off the page as 'wtf...OP' (yet)


There are no CSM squads that can combat squad.


Does the codex promote a mixed army, or mono god armies?

You can get away with a mono-god list, but at that point you should be using cult troops most likely.

If you're adding havocs to your berzerker army, there's no real point in giving the havocs the mark of khorne for instance. In that sense you're varied.

It's not like 3.5 where we'll see thousand son troops with nurgle vehicles to min-max.


Undivided armies are a lot cheaper than cult marines. A lot. Playing undivided gives you many more bodies.


Marks
The only impact on Marks is that HQ models make corresponding cult units Troops.

You can mix/match Marks and Icons.

+1T/FnP isn't as good as a Plague Marine, they're worth their points.

HQ unlocks corresponding cult troop.


Marks are the same.
-Undivided still reroll morale tests?
-Khorne still Rage
-Tzeentch still +1 invuln save
-Nurgle still +1T
-Slaanesh still +1I
Marks are the same, except Khorne which is Rage, not +1 attack and has a point decrease.

Undivided Lords get Inspiring Presence command trait, and improved reserve manipulation.

Dedicated transports get the mark of the unit they're bought for, for free. Only units with the same mark can ride in it, (so be careful).


Undivided vehicles can transport anyone.

Other vehicles may buy them. An example would be the mark of khorne on a predator, which gives it a dozer blade at no additional cost, and allows it to roll d6 wounds on a unit it tank shocks






Yes icons prevent scatter


Marks are bought per squad


CSM/Havocs/Raptors/Chosen pay the same cost. Termies pay more.


Psychic Powers
There are 2 debuff spells in Nurgle and Slaanesh, 2 buff spells in Slaanesh.




Psychic powers are rolled, not bought specifically



Eye of Gods

The "eye of the Gods" table is actually several tables. First you roll to see what table you roll on, then you roll what you get after winning a challenge, killing a monstrous creature or walker, or annihilating a unit in close combat.






One of the tables is Daemonic Gifts.


The chart is 6 charts of 6 options.


Units (General)
CSM and Cultists are Troops


Cult units become troops with the right mark on your warlord.


No bonuses for Sacred numbers


No one comes with icons by default, cult troops get marks by default.


Khorne
Skull Champions can take collars that give the squad and any vehicle it's embarked in a 5+ DtW


Kharne strikes at initiative 5, and he gained armour bane which I guess is new. He's AP3, but for every model he kills (not wound inflicted) he makes an additional attack at initiative 1.

Not quite the same as warrior born as it doesn't keep growing, but it's very devastating for someone with 8 attacks on the charge.


Kharne has a 2+ Deny the witch
Kharne still hits friendly models.



khorne berserkers are AP 5
Berzerkers are 105+21/berzerker
berzerkers are 2 attacks, rage, furious charge, frag and krak grenades, bolt pistol / khornate weapon (ap5 in close combat).
They're 5 attacks at str5 ap5 each on the charge.
They can also upgrade to have chainfists in the form of 2 handed chain-axes.
5-20 in size.



Noise Marines

Noise marines are overall a little bit cheaper. Sonic Blasters are 36" salvo now. Aspiring champions have access to a whip that prevents enemies from denying challenges. Other weapons are the same




Plague Marines
They are 120 for 5, + 24 for more.


Poisoned only in melee. Can throw their blight grenades to reduce enemy movement speed to 2d6 pick the highest, or if already rolling d6 for whatever reason (i.e. cover, charging) pick the lowest.


Plague marines are now poison in CC. Can throw blight grenades


Thousand Sons
Thousand Sons come with an Aspiring Sorcerer in their basic 5 before adding more Rubric marines.
150 points for 4 Rubric marines and 1 Aspiring Sorcerer, He gets a roll included..

Unit size 4-19. 20 points per Rubric. Still slow and purposeful, unless the sorcerer is alive then relentless.


Rubric marines are 1W, 4++


Thousand Son squads are rank 1

HQ sorcerer are rank 1, can be upgraded to 2.

Mark of Tzeench on an HQ is +1 (so you can upgrade all the way to rank 3)

There is a piece of wargear that lets you reroll up to your mastery in dice after you have rolled, but only each dice once.


Ahriman is mastery 4, can cast multiple powers per turn, gets access to almost all lores and has a default psychic attack much like smite but longer range that he can use in addition to his normal psychic powers per turn.


Characters
Most named characters are the same, but overall a point reduction. Abbadon is the same points and does not make terminators troops.
There are no new named characters.


I haven't read any special character adjusting the allies chart.

Abadon is AP2, Daemon Weapons are AP3



Daemon Prince


Kicks ass and takes names, but otherwise no army wide bonus's are granted
Daemon princes are jump if they have wings.




Chaos Space Marine
70 for 5, 14 for each additional marine.




Aspiring Champion is a 10 point upgrade.



Come with bolter/bp/ccw



For every 5 models in the squad you get a special weapon. If the squad is 10 or more, one model can exchange a flamer(5 pts) for a Heavy Bolter, meltagun(10 points) for an Autocannon or Missile Launcher or a plasmagun(15 points) for a Lascannon.



Marks range from 10-50 points, Icons range from 10-40 points.



Cultists


Cultists are 4 points each and come in squads of 10-30. They can have any combination of autoguns (str3 ap-) or auto pistol ccw (str 3 ap-)




They can take special weapons, but not heavy weapons.


they respond very well to dark apostles getting an extra benefit when one is in their unit.


Zombie cultists aren't scoring and cannot be joined by Characters (even with the mark of nurgle)



No traitor guard. Just cultists.

cultists cannot platoon, but you can take up to 30 of them in the first place.



Terminators
Will Terminators be able to be given both marks and icons to essentially be cult terminators?






Yes, but it's expensive. Taking both increases the cost of the second and Terminators pay more in the first place.


Terminators pay 50% more for marks. Taking an icon if you already have a mark costs an extra 20 points


Possessed
Possessed get to buy (not roll) up to 3 boons from the Eye of Gods table.


Maulers (Elites)
str5/t5, 2+/5++, Once per turn can combination of 2:
power weapon, power fist, lightning claw

Each mauler chooses individually.


1-3. Maulers cannot deep strike, but are not slow and purposeful.


Dark Apostles
Yes daemons can be summoned to your CSM icons if you have a dark apostle.



War Smiths


war smiths who can restore hull points


Chaos Dragon (Fast Attack)
The only flyer in the codex
Dragon Takes out other flyers with a ranged attack
its 12/11/10 170pts
Fast Attack



the flyer you get is retardedly good at blowing up things that are zooming.



Bikes
Bikes get nothing new, just CSM on bikes with combi-bolters instead of bolters.






Raptors
Raptors still have access to special weapons, only the aspiring champion can take special melee weapons. They are reduced in points.

The Night Lord's raptors are a lot like vanguard (they cannot charge on deep strike though), but they have 2 attacks base + dual power weapons (ap3) with the shred special rule and are 35 points each.


Dreadnoughts
They can take marks
The mark of khorne for instance gives it Rage and a unique weapon option much-like blood talons except it's a giant rotary saw.



Obliterators (heavy Support)


Predators
No new turret options for predators.



New Siege Engine (heavy support)
The siege engine has a melta blast template.


Defilers
They're the same except they have the Daemon special rule, 4 hull points and a 5+ invulnerable save.


Havocs
Havocs, CSM and chosen squads can take autocannons


Vindicator
Daemonicly possessed vindicators I think will be in every list, with their ability to potentially regenerate destroyed weapons at start of the chaos player's turn



Vehicles


There is a sound-based vehicle upgrade but it's more of a Word Bearers item than Slaanesh.


There is a sonic upgrade for tanks, but it's not a noise-marine thing.




no chaos razorbacks, just combi-weapons



No drop pods



There is a new land raider, it's a lot like a crusader.
12 capacity for the basic, 16 capacity for the new one.



New Land Raider can ram fortifications and you can launch an assault on the occupants, except that you don't consolidate at the end, you remain locked in combat.
If the enemy unit flees they immediately exit the terrain. If the door is blocked (by your land raider for instance), they count as having been caught ala Sweeping Advance



Fortifications


There are no new fortifications but there is a unique upgrade to fortifications.


Misc.


don't know about upgrades being finecast. I know that there is intent to upgrade the basic CSM box to support all the cult troops to be able to achieve any of the weapon combinations from the entries (including everyone having soundblasters).


Daemon Weapons are AP3 and pretty different now, you still wrestle with them. I think its a matter of preference.


The "Hatred: Space Marines" rule....is it ALL Space Marines (Chaos and Loyalist), just Loyalist, or just Vanilla?
Just imperial loyalist.

Logan from Faeit212 wrote:Also Kharn is supposedly no longer "immune" to pyschic powers rather his deny the witch is a 2+


Ahriman I have heard Mastery Level 4. 3 wounds. Possible 3+ or 4+ DtW. Slightly Cheaper. But not sure. Could be more.
he might have an INV save vs shooting only


Expect a few months after release. Upgrade sprues will come. Shoulder pads and helmets. Maybe boltguns. POSSIBLY finecast though...


The original concept was to make very specific legion rules but the problem was


1. They wouldnt be able to fit it in one codex
2. Multiple codices is hard to sustain unless there is much effort.


So there was a compromise. One codex. No heavy legion rules or advantages. But if you waited to play a certain legion they'd give you the tools to make it. With marks or a few units. So cult terminators might have once been real.

Logan on Faeit212 wrote:
The CSm codex is the first half of Sept. The starter set is late Sept. No DA this year.

But dont say the starter set is "locked" for september. They could move it to October easily.

Dez on Faeit 212 wrote:
Warlords Cometh


If you are currently complaining about Warlord traits being too random well play that violin some more. GW really wants you to use them! The CSM codex has it’s own Warlord chart, but the big announcement is some characters have specific Warlord Traits! These are built into the cost of the model, so no taking them out!

Meet the Geek at Faeit212 wrote:
One rumor I've heard is that Legions are in but not... basically it's just the "take X mark on your HQ" stuff expanded. So take a named Lord or X mark/upgrade and suddenly your force org chart swaps around, AKA kit your warlord with 'Night Lord' upgrades and undivided/no mark and suddenly Assault Marines/Bikers are troops. Alphas get Infiltrators, Irons that Dark Tech Marine thing, etc.

TastyTaste on Blood of Kittens wrote:
So does Soul Blaze replace the AP3 on 1k sons bolters, or is it in addition to it? And since rapid fire weapons can be fired on the move now, do they still have SnP?

[Are just like before, but with Soulfire]
They are just like
1) do Chaos bikes get a reasonable price reduction, similar to C:SM ones?
[No Idea]
2) do Havoc weapons options get cheaper?
[Yes almost as cheap as Long Fangs]
3) do Terminators come standard with Power Axes in their new cost?
[I think you still get to pick Sword or Axe your choice]
4) are there any FOC shenanigans like moving Terminators, Bikes or Raptors to troops?
[Nope just cult troops]
Do the Thousand Sons get any new options (say, like Heavy Bolters?)?
[None that I know of]
Even with all those upgrades and tables, the codex somehow sounds ”down to earth” like the current DA codex. Does it feel the same? Like a careful approach to a new edition of rules?
[Seems careful, I would say they are just copying there approach they used with Fantasy]
- How do Icons and Marks work? Are Icons still bound to one model and lost whet it dies?
[No idea]
- Can Vehicles and special units (Obliteratiors, Dragon, etc.) be marked?
[Some can some cannot]
- Which weapons of Plaguemarines are poisoned? CC weapons, Shooty weapons or both?
[No idea]
- Do marked Sorcerers or marked Daemonprinces also make cult units a troop choice?
[Princes no, Sorcerers Yes]

Faeit 212 inbox wrote:
same source that gave us
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2012/07/the-latest-on-white-dwarf.html#more

Spoke to who confirmed that CSM were dropped for Daemons for August.

Apparently a vocal minority I mentioned previously really wanted to see the releases more spread out than what was initially intended.

There is more to this, but I am not going to discuss business plans or arrangements because of the ramifications.

The daemon models being released have been done for some time, and were intended to be the first thing after Dark Angels.

With that said:
The chaos space marine codex is done and printed. One person told me that some skids have already been shipped to avoid the bottlenecking from last month, but I have nothing other than their word on that.

Looking at the white dwarf drop box, the directory lists a lot of the articles that were in August's issue now back in for September's scrum meeting, which means that it will be decided upon in the next two weeks. There are new articles, however, one of which is "painting chaos cultists."

While it would not be normal for the starter to be released without mainstream rules for all the models it contains, it's possible they may do a chaos cultist rules release in the September WD, and then the codex afterwards, but another person I was speaking with suggested that there's a debate right now about releasing the Codex and the Starter at the same time.

There is vehement opposition to releasing the starter set any later than September, so I doubt we'll see September - Chaos, October - Starter.

If anything it will be September - Starter, October - Chaos, or September - Both, with the new Chaos models split between two waves. Keep in mind, the new MO for releases is for the entirety of a line to be dropped within a 6 week period, so that would leave DA releasing with some shared days of Chaos.

-There is an Eye of the Gods-like table ~like the WFB Warriors of Chaos table.
You get to roll on whenever a character kills another character in a challenge, or a Walker or Monstrous Creature. There is a multitude of gifts (and curses) that your Characters can acquire which range from +1 Save, +1 Toughness, or becoming either a Spawn or a Daemon Prince!!!
(Sorta True — trying to lump all the funky stuff into one table is not totally accurate. CSM codex is table land. Expect many random charts and upgrades it will be hard to keep track.)

-The Dragon flyer is in – think Necron Night Scythe with the main chassis replaced by a massive mechanical dragon head with segmented wings sweeping forward and around from it.
(True – The thing looks like a dragon head attached to the Owl from Clash of the Titans)

-Dark Apostles – ~Word Bearers rejoice!!!
(True– but more of cultist leader/moral buffer)

-Warp Smiths – Chaos Techmarines that can curse vehicles and degrade terrain. ~maybe they’ll have anti-psychotic grenades
( True -Think Doc Ock )

-New Daemon Engine – half way between a Dreadnought and a Defiler.
(True -I would say halfway between Defiler and Trygon)

-Defilers are Daemons and have a 5+ Inv save.
(Yes a Demon, and some extra lovin…)

–Important Designer Note–
The new CSM codex is not a return to the 3rd edition codex, this is the successor to Gav Thorpe’s creation– the current CSM codex. Unlike before Phil Kelly was put in charge of building from the ground up; Space Wolves, Dark Eldar, and Orks codexes he instead has taken a much more subtle approach with the CSM Codex. This is not the reinvention of the wheel at its core this is a validation for Gav Thorpe and perhaps if you could ask Gav, Phil Kelly’s CSM codex would have been the codex he wished he could have written, but wasn’t allowed to.

–What will be Released–
We will know if GW has changed policy. This codex will reveal if GW has abandoned the wave method to model release with a new codex or if they have stopped caring and show you all the new models even if they don’t come out right away.
Finecast: Dark Apostle, Warsmith, New Lord, Oblits, All Old Special Characters not updated already
New Plastic: Dragon, Raptors, Dreadnaught, Demon Engine, Assault Oblits, Chosen
Upgrade Packs: Plague Marines, 1k Sons, Emperor’s Children

–General Changes–
Almost all of the old units are either the same point cost or have gotten cheaper. With the notable exceptions of Chosen, Terminators, Defilers getting more expensive. The notable cheaper ones being basic CSM, Oblits, Zerkers, The CSM is really an upgrade codex, while things have gotten cheaper you will be hard pressed to keep your units inexpensive with all the wargear you can add. The cheaper units doesn’t come without a cost as well, almost all units saw a LD drop. Also you will start to see a lot of the new USRs in the CSM book.

–What has stayed the Same–
The Cult units are the same in stats and basic wargear. No new Spacial Characters. Abbadon is still the only one with Eternal Warrior. Demon Weapons still can kill you. The Dreadnaught is still Crazy. The unit sizes have stayed the same as well as the wargear options found in the old codex; e.g. Chosen can still get a butt load special weapons.


–Psychic Powers–
As can you expect each Chaos God gives their chosen Sorcerer access to their own set of spells. That allows you to pick from Basic Spells and the new ones for each God. If anyone was wondering Lash of Submission is gone.
Ok now that we got the basics out-of-the-way let us get to the good stuff

Blood of Kittens wrote:Ok now that we got the basics out-of-the-way let us get to the good stuff

–Daemons–

A good number of units in the CSM codex have this USR.

Raptors
Oblits
CC Oblit
Defilers
Demon Engines
Dragons
Possessed
Demon Prince
–It Will Not Die–

Wonder who was getting this new USR well you guessed it CSM is.

Dragons
Defilers
Demon Engines
–Demon Possessed–

Demon possessed just got a whole bunch cuter really. Instead of not being able to embark in demon possessed vehicles they now will only eat one of your guys and repair itself. Otherwise works the same way as before lose BS and ignore shaken and stunned, In addition some things get wargear automatically.

Dragons
Defliers
Demon Engines
–Challenges–

All CSM characters must always accept challenges

–Icons and Marks–

Marks and Icons are both purchasable by most units. That means you have five new Icons and the same four marks, in which units can have a combination of two. This is a list of the USRs and stat bonus possible.

Fearless
FnP
+1 T
+1 Invul Save
Rage
Soul Blaze
Furious Charge
Fear
+1 I
–Space Marines Better Hide–

Almost all CSM units get Hatred Space Marines. Now I am not sure if this includes all Space Marine variants or just Smurfs and friends.

–?Eye of the Gods Table?–

Yeah this will be the chart to end all charts and competitive players will cry everywhere because it is random. All 60+random abilities! Yes you heard it right over 60! How it works I don’t know, but characters can get multiple rolls on the chart through various methods.

Time for some specific models right? Sure why not!

–Dragon–

Oh the Dragon yeah the model on everyone mind. This is a CSM answer to other flyers it is designed almost exclusively to hunt and destroy other flyers. Clocking in about the same points cost of Carnifex these little hell on wings Vector Strike and bring pain to a lot of things. Did I mention it gets to re-roll wounds and armor pens.

–Demon Engines–

The other mystery model that has been leaked. These guys sit on the large bases like Trygons. They have an assortment of special weapons that have never been seen before. They are designed for Building and Heavy armor destruction with Melta CC weapons and bonuses against buildings. They as well get to re-roll wounds and armor pens. Side note: Defilers as well get to re-roll wounds and armor pen.

–Dragons, Demon Engines, Defilers oh my-

So let me put this in perspective. All these models ignore shaken and stunned, have 5+ invul saves, re-roll wounds and armor pens, and can recover wounds and hull points lost.

–Cult Units–

I know much of the Internet was crying about them only being in the Elite slot when I first mentioned it. How dare they force me to take Kharn to spam Berserkers! Well don’t worry is not as bad as you think. You can also get a generic Lord and buy the correct mark and unlock them as troops as well. As for the rules themselves just minor changes.

Zerkers: Rage, Cheaper
1k Sons: Soul Fire, Same cost
Emperor Children: Weapons Ignore cover and now have Salvo USR, Cheaper
Plague Marines: Poison Weapons, More Expensive
–Typhus and Cultists–

Typhus is now a mastery level 2 sorcerer of Nurgle. In addition as reported earlier he can make any cultist a zombie. Zombies are going to be disgusting in 6th edition. FnP, Fearless, Fear, and all for no additional cost. As for Cultists they are cheap not conscript cheap, but close. You can get over 30 of them in a squad.

–Daemon Princes, Sorcerers , Chaos Lords–

Princes got more expensive wargear bringing them in line with the Demon Codex. Sorcerers are pretty much the same with the ability to buy up to Master level 3, but they only ever have 2 wounds. Chaos Lords are where it seems to be at, Phil Kelly wants you to design a Lord tailored to your army, their list of wargear options is easily the largest of any model in the book. Also remember they allow you to make Cult Units troops.

Ok that is all I got for now, depending on how the week goes and what GW does I might get more rumors for you, but until now that is all I got. Wait, no I just remembered something…