I don't know about you, but I tend to find that Trygons aren't really too bright. It's like they have no sense of survival at all, usually opting to stand around shouting while krak missiles zoom towards their slack-jawed faces. I mean just look at this guy...



He has a goddamn Skyshield to hide behind and still insists on jumping around like that. This Land Raider crew can't believe their luck.




This week I adopted a new Trygon from eBay, and was determined to help him reach his future prey with as few lascannon holes as possible. The poor guy had been through a bit of a rough time, and needed some considerable cleaning up after being lathered with cheap, brittle poly cement. i took this opportunity to make him a little stealthier. Well, as stealthy as you can make a giant house-sized snake thing.

The first step was a small surgical incision to remove the final three tail segments on the main torso, like so:


I also clipped the final segment on the middle part of the tail. This gave me alot more flexibility in reassembling everything. This next image shows how that is done, using paperclips to pin the parts into place. U-shaped pieces help to keep everything attached to the main base securely.




With the glue dried and the frame holding firmly enough, it's time to add in the missing tail segments with greenstuff. It's worth pointing out that the last part of the assembly was to (re-)attach the limbs. This let me position them to look best for the new pose.



Job done! Our new Trygon is far less prone to being hit by stray missiles, lasers or low-flying dakkajets.

Wouldnt this be modeling for advantage?

on another note though, il admit, it looks a lot less slowed than the existing example. nice job

doc1234 wrote:Wouldnt this be modeling for advantage?

on another note though, il admit, it looks a lot less slowed than the existing example. nice job

Pretty much textbook modelling for advantage. It's like modelling snipers lying down, or the "Crouching-fex".

Does look cool though.

Carnage43 wrote:

doc1234 wrote:Wouldnt this be modeling for advantage?

on another note though, il admit, it looks a lot less slowed than the existing example. nice job

Pretty much textbook modelling for advantage. It's like modelling snipers lying down, or the "Crouching-fex".

Does look cool though.

arnt their a few sniper models laying prone sold that way anyway? same as the crouching legs done with SM kits.

also, i now want to see this crouching-fex, because in my head, its awesomely hilarious...

The rules say you cant target tails, horns, wings. This model is "modeled for disadvantage" it is elevated by a tail that is not target-able . This gets it more on scale with other MCs and is similar to the forward leaning ravener models in relationship to the upright raveners.

Yeah... I'm sorry. Modeling like this just to get cover saves is pretty lame. Like making a bunch of long fangs laying prone. This goes beyond grots counts as IG which is fun and flavorful. This is just for rules advantage. I would not play someone running these... And I am a Nid player.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

theunicorn wrote:The rules say you cant target tails, horns, wings. This model is "modeled for disadvantage" it is elevated by a tail that is not target-able . This gets it more on scale with other MCs and is similar to the forward leaning ravener models in relationship to the upright raveners.

I am just not with you on this. Trygons are taller than other MC's... Fact of life. Would you let me field a tau sniper drone size model that counts as a vendetta?

Rabid Ferret wrote:Yeah... I'm sorry. Modeling like this just to get cover saves is pretty lame. Like making a bunch of long fangs laying prone. This goes beyond grots counts as IG which is fun and flavorful. This is just for rules advantage. I would not play someone running these... And I am a Nid player.

You really need to chill out a bit. This is hardly the same thing. Not only is leaning forward an accurate portrayal of how they move, there's a literally a picture of this exact pose on page 50 in the codex. This isn't a lame attempt to gain a cover save, it's meant to make the model look more dynamic. The original mono-pose of the kit is silly to begin with - can you imagine this standing straight up in the same way?

I could see your point if it was modelled with just a head and claws emerging from the ground - that's cheesy as hell. But this thing is still the same size and dimensions as a Terivgon and just as easy to hit. I can't think of a more reasonable comaparison for a T6 W6 MC than another T6 W6 MC...

Forgive my ignorance, I don't play against Tyranids, but can't you deep strike?? if you're model's going to appear from anywhere, why do you need to hide him?

But it is good to see a new pose. Good modelling!

wow, you guys really need to calm down. I'm sorry but these look really cool and I found the whole post pretty funny. well done xttz ^.^

for the record, I WOULD play against these because they look fantastic, rather than getting butthurt over a few lost cover saves

I don't care if it's moddeling for advantage. It's cool!

xttz wrote:I don't know about you, but I tend to find that Trygons aren't really too bright. It's like they have no sense of survival at all, usually opting to stand around shouting while krak missiles zoom towards their slack-jawed faces. I mean just look at this guy...

He has a goddamn Skyshield to hide behind and still insists on jumping around like that. This Land Raider crew can't believe their luck.

This week I adopted a new Trygon from eBay, and was determined to help him reach his future prey with as few lascannon holes as possible.

Job done! Our new Trygon is far less prone to being hit by stray missiles, lasers or low-flying dakkajets.

xttz wrote: This isn't a lame attempt to gain a cover save, it's meant to make the model look more dynamic. The original mono-pose of the kit is silly to begin with - can you imagine this standing straight up in the same way?

Okay you've got me confused here, first you say the modelling is to make him easier to hide, and harder to shoot (thus get cover saves, block line of sight etc), then it has nothing to do with cover saves, but making the model more dynamic? have to agree with Rabid Ferret about the modelling for advantage here...

But to be honoust: I wouldn't mind playing against this model, as it does look cool! Nicely executed conversion! I understand your wish to have some differently posed Trygons, specially if you've got three in an army...

Requiem wrote:

xttz wrote:I don't know about you, but I tend to find that Trygons aren't really too bright. It's like they have no sense of survival at all, usually opting to stand around shouting while krak missiles zoom towards their slack-jawed faces. I mean just look at this guy...

He has a goddamn Skyshield to hide behind and still insists on jumping around like that. This Land Raider crew can't believe their luck.

This week I adopted a new Trygon from eBay, and was determined to help him reach his future prey with as few lascannon holes as possible.

Job done! Our new Trygon is far less prone to being hit by stray missiles, lasers or low-flying dakkajets.

xttz wrote: This isn't a lame attempt to gain a cover save, it's meant to make the model look more dynamic. The original mono-pose of the kit is silly to begin with - can you imagine this standing straight up in the same way?

Okay you've got me confused here, first you say the modelling is to make him easier to hide, and harder to shoot (thus get cover saves, block line of sight etc), then it has nothing to do with cover saves, but making the model more dynamic? have to agree with Rabid Ferret about the modelling for advantage here...

But to be honoust: I wouldn't mind playing against this model, as it does look cool! Nicely executed conversion! I understand your wish to have some differently posed Trygons, specially if you've got three in an army...

I think he meant it as, at the moment, the trygon looks like it's just sitting around waiting for said missiles and dakkajets to hit it but after the conversion it looks likes it's moving around

DPBellathrom wrote:

I think he meant it as, at the moment, the trygon looks like it's just sitting around waiting for said missiles and dakkajets to hit it but after the conversion it looks likes it's moving around

I don't think so. The first bit of bolded text by requiem shows pure intent of grabbing as much cover as possible. xttz says in his original post that it's meant to grab as move cover saves as he can, all under the guise of cool modeling, dynamic poses!

It's the same if I modeled all my gaurdsmen on kneeling legs. They'd be dynamic! They'd be really cool models! They'd be modeled for advantage! As is this. Very well executed, no doubt.

Very good modeling, for sure. Shame to see such talent used for nefarious purposes.

And if it was for pure aesthetic purposes, I suppose there would be no problem with us measure to where a normal trygon would actually be standing if a game was played.

This is a very nice conversion and does help make the army appear more dynamic. If i hadn't seen this post and got the chance to play versus an army with a trygon posed like that i would have no problem. However, it's obvious from the OP's first paragraph this was done for a cover save/LoS advantage, so i would have to insist any shooting done at it would be treated like shooting at a normal one. Next time you model for advantage, don't admit it lol.

Looks awesom! Make sure to post pictures when he is all painted up

You might also try an embossing heat gun to 'soften' the plastic. You can then bend or twist it onto a different angle of attack.

Beautiful pain jobs on the others. Mawlocs appear to be the better choice though. Your experience?

hivepdktyrant wrote:You might also try an embossing heat gun to 'soften' the plastic. You can then bend or twist it onto a different angle of attack.

Beautiful pain jobs on the others. Mawlocs appear to be the better choice though. Your experience?

Thanks I should get this 3rd one primed and started tonight, ready for Sunday's Planetstrike game. Three Trygons able to charge as they arrive? Yes please!

As for Mawlocs, I find them more of a niche weapon. Sure the burrow attack will counter some things well, but to use it they need to leave the board for a turn in addition to waiting to come on in the first place. That means you only get to use it 2-3 times in a game max (probably 2) - if you take it off the board for 2+ turns. The rest of the time it's just a poor man's Trygon. Less WS, half the attacks and no shooting attack or Synapse option. Between this and the voluntary absence needed to do another burrow attack, you're paying 80% of the points for less than 50% of the model.

What can't model a slithering serpent style monstrous creature...slithering? lol

Point being any realistic (funny term for 40k I know) plausable pose for a mini that is well constructed I have no problem with.

To me modelling for advantage means adding 6" to gun barrels. Oversized bases on models with area of affect powers, etc.

Cover is only 5+ guys! Noone freak out. It'll all be alright.

I'm sorry but it looks awesome and I would play against it with no problems. Damn, so now it only takes a three-story building to hide the gigantic model. I suppose I must put my Eldar Jetbikes on the tallest flying stems that GW produces, as well, for otherwise I am modelling for advantage by having them fly too close to the ground.

As for prone snipers and figures- lots of people used to do that. It was always ruled that when being shot at they counted as if they were standing upright; that the pose was just for coolness sake, as you can get all sorts of "official" models kneeling or lying down.

bsohi wrote:

DPBellathrom wrote:

I think he meant it as, at the moment, the trygon looks like it's just sitting around waiting for said missiles and dakkajets to hit it but after the conversion it looks likes it's moving around

I don't think so. The first bit of bolded text by requiem shows pure intent of grabbing as much cover as possible. xttz says in his original post that it's meant to grab as move cover saves as he can, all under the guise of cool modeling, dynamic poses!

It's the same if I modeled all my gaurdsmen on kneeling legs. They'd be dynamic! They'd be really cool models! They'd be modeled for advantage! As is this. Very well executed, no doubt.

Very good modeling, for sure. Shame to see such talent used for nefarious purposes.

And if it was for pure aesthetic purposes, I suppose there would be no problem with us measure to where a normal trygon would actually be standing if a game was played.

i agree. at first you talk about surviveability and how you have a perfectly good landing pad to hide behind (you would get a 5+ cover save anyway from 25% being hidden btw), but then you speak of how it looks more dynamic and just to show how the model moves. well is it for rules or is it for fluff?

regardless, this is modeling to your advantage imo. besides, your model is WAY off the base now. there is a reason why the flyrant is up on its tail, there is a reason land speeders are on clear bases with poles, there is a reason why a trygon and a zoanthrope are so damned tall. why not have your hormagaunts standing straight up? arms dont count remember so you can have them take up as little or as much space as you want then. the landing gear on my stormraven is out, does that mean it doesnt need the base at all?

you want to bend the rules a little? get an old rhino, theyre at least a quarter inch lower.

I don't think he was trying to get cover on purpose, you guys just interpreted it that way.

I thought of it as the Trygon being a stupid animal it is and just stands up and asks to be shot at.

It looks cooler too, if you are so stingy about cover saves then just count it as if it was standing tall when actually playing the game

I like all three of the poses shown, from the typical to the extremely hunched "racing" look. But to get the best of both worlds without people flipping: I'd go with the slightly hunched pose. Only a tad shorter with a great "SURPRISE!!!" pose on whatever poor model he pops up next to!

xttz wrote:

Rabid Ferret wrote:Yeah... I'm sorry. Modeling like this just to get cover saves is pretty lame. Like making a bunch of long fangs laying prone. This goes beyond grots counts as IG which is fun and flavorful. This is just for rules advantage. I would not play someone running these... And I am a Nid player.

You really need to chill out a bit. This is hardly the same thing. Not only is leaning forward an accurate portrayal of how they move, there's a literally a picture of this exact pose on page 50 in the codex. This isn't a lame attempt to gain a cover save, it's meant to make the model look more dynamic. The original mono-pose of the kit is silly to begin with - can you imagine this standing straight up in the same way?

I could see your point if it was modelled with just a head and claws emerging from the ground - that's cheesy as hell. But this thing is still the same size and dimensions as a Terivgon and just as easy to hit. I can't think of a more reasonable comaparison for a T6 W6 MC than another T6 W6 MC...

I am not sure what part of my post made you think I was not calm.

You said you did not do this to get cover saves, but instead to get a dynamic pose. Would you let someone draw LoS to it according to its standard pose? If you play it like the model was designed I see no problem. It was you wording in the first post that made it seem like modeling to get advantage shenanigans was your intent.

I don't really see where this is not modelling for advantage. Especially the whole photomontage showing how coverless and vulnerable a stock trygon can be.

Nice try...

Technically you can still see the carapace over the Landing Pad so they can still get shot at. Artistically though, very very nice

I wouldn't mind playing against this model. Even if its modeling for advantage the majority of cover on a battlefield wouldn't even totally obscure it

I don't know much about the creature though (no experience with Tyranids) so I don't know what advantage it would be getting from a cover save

And besides... it's just such a really cool model. This is terrific work!

Wow.... this just shows how stupid 40k is.. Glad i left it.. Whats wrong with modeling it just the way you like it, being prone, standing on its head whatever and just using the original model for LoF purposes?

And by the way, i think it looks good.

Jacobshepard wrote:I wouldn't mind playing against this model. Even if its modeling for advantage the majority of cover on a battlefield wouldn't even totally obscure it

I don't know much about the creature though (no experience with Tyranids) so I don't know what advantage it would be getting from a cover save

And besides... it's just such a really cool model. This is terrific work!

Considering almost no Tyranid has an invulnerable save and most troop nids have 5+ saves, cover is a necessity for success. Hence the reason we are called MFA on this model.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

Jacobshepard wrote:I wouldn't mind playing against this model. Even if its modeling for advantage the majority of cover on a battlefield wouldn't even totally obscure it

I don't know much about the creature though (no experience with Tyranids) so I don't know what advantage it would be getting from a cover save

And besides... it's just such a really cool model. This is terrific work!

Considering almost no Tyranid has an invulnerable save and most troop nids have 5+ saves, cover is a necessity for success. Hence the reason we are called MFA on this model.

Got ya. As I said I have no experience with Tyranids so I always appreciate the knowledge

I wouldn't care about playing against it, looks cool, fits the world.

Mass hasn't changed, pose looks better, I'm ok with this

To be honest, I think this is fine. The model's not actually any smaller than it was - it's just pointed in a different direction. Yes, it'll have an easier time hiding below the tops of buildings etc, but it's so much longer than the original that it's now got a real problem with making sure that none of it is visible around corners. I guess it'd probably be a good idea to clear it in advance with TOs if you're thinking of bringing it to a tournament, but I'd certainly be cool with it if it showed up on a table opposite me.

Having said that, this is an absolutely fantastic conversion that looks miles better than the original and you deserve mad props for successfully converting such a precarious-looking model in such a way that it doesn't fall the heck apart in a stiff breeze.

You sir have made me want to model a trygon for a diorama, been looking for a MC to pose attacking a crisis suit and that would be perfect!

I would have no problem playing with that model, I deepstrike too and would hope to make your cover obsolete!

Good for looks. Lots of butthurt in here though.

Maybe adjust the angle of his body so people won't complain about it.

I really like your take on their pose.

Bubbalicious wrote:Wow.... this just shows how stupid 40k is...

The game is not at fault here; the players are. There's a substantial difference.

Only on Dakka...

Cool Trygon. Definitely useful when you have more than 1

I wouldnt have a problem playing against it, it looks fantastic and the cover save isnt changed from what it would be normally anyway. Doesnt it get a 5+ cover save in the original pose anyway? (hiding behind the platform in the picture.)

Thank you all for the support - I didn't expect so much drama from a modelling blog!

To clarify, here is the entire thought-process that spawned this thread:
1) I have 3 Trygons and didn't want them all to look the same
2) The default pose is pretty silly, especially in an army that relies so much on cover saves to make up for lack of invulns
3) Therefore a 'Smarter Trygon' is a good gimmick for a blog post.

That was the top and bottom of it - variation and some humour. LoS bonuses are incidental. If I was really TFG I'd have just glued the head to a base amongst a bunch of rubble and called it a day. Luckily I play in a club full of chill people who would never complain about 'modelling for advantage' for things like this.

So that said, I played a Planetstrike game with such chill people this weekend. Here are a couple of pictures with my all new Trygon brood, who managed to chalk up at least 2 Vindicators, 2 Tac Squads and 2 Bastions between them.

(and if you're confused, yes the drop pods are all proxy spore pods)

Bubbalicious wrote:Wow.... this just shows how stupid 40k is.. Glad i left it.. Whats wrong with modeling it just the way you like it, being prone, standing on its head whatever and just using the original model for LoF purposes?

And by the way, i think it looks good.

There is no problem with it. Even hunched over like that, the cover save from it standing behind that landing platform wouldn't increase. 40k has always been a game with relaxed modeling standards to encourage players to convert and personalize their armies. The OP was obviously attempting humor ("low flying dakkajets") and, as usual on Dakkadakka, everyone immediately jumped down his throat for it. Simply put:
haters gonna hate.

It does give the Trygon a much better look. But you have to admit its quite a bit lower then before, and so you will have to learn to deal with people that would seem upset about that, because yes, it does come off as MFA.

BUT!


People on here need to think about this for a second. Yes its now able to hide-ish behind that piece of terrain, but for feth sake folks, that is a GIANT piece of terrain. Now if he made it so he could hide behind a tank, or a corner of a demolished building, yes, I get it. If her were to just chop the model up and glue it in a pile on the base, yes, I can see your points. It can hide behind a big ass terrain piece, thats not game breaking

Awesome idea, from this day on, all my wraiths will now lie prone - minimum LOS to the enemy, feth yeah!

Seriously though, I appreciate your effort, it's really well-thought out, but it's 100% illegal modeling for advantage.

I love the look, and plan on modelling my upcoming mawloc and trygon in similar poses. To avoid the modeling for advantage though accusation I've been making up the base with either rocks or a lamp post to the height of the normal stand alone model. Use that for the height when LOS becomes an issue.

P.S. Love the modelling and look of your nids.

People can be so petty.

Since when is making a static looking model into dynamic model a reason to cry. This game encourages players to model and convert. The trygon's original pose is seriously lacklustre and, in light of its subterranian assault rule, this conversion is more fitting. A couple inches forward, a couple inches lower... so what. The base size is the same.

I would not say this model violates any rule that I'm aware of, nor does it smack of bad sportsmanship.

Here's a similar one I found:



I like this pose more so much more than the original, stock pose.

I think the main reason people flared so much is the wording used in the posts made by the OP...It reallly does sound like through the way it is worded, he is implying he did it deliberately for easier cover saves.

Looks pretty nice though, and that complain isn't very fair considering very little scenery will be big enough to completely cover it, and if it was, itd probably be big enough to effect the original model anyway.

Thinks OP is MFA

Crys like Twihard.

/coolstorybro.jpg



On to the real story though; I can see where the MFA cries are coming from with the OPs wording but, looking at it, it would seem that the cover saves/LoS was an after thought on the model. I mean, if you had to rely on tee-shirt saves and cover for your army, you're not building your models to stand straight up and down on the tips of their toes. Hell, even if you're making 2+ AS with +5 IS you not going to build as tall as you can get.

I don't see people building Reavers, Defilers, Sentinels or gun drones to the heights of Storm Eagles nor standing as tall as possible for their model size. Why? Because they wouldn't survive at that height and would look rather stupid floating up there in space. Argue till you're blue in the face but I've seen my fair share of low flying models and crouched SMs and many of those models look amazing. Yet, for the life of me, I can never recall having heard anyone cry MFA about them but, I guess in their eyes, it's not quite the same and dropping your Trygon so he can hide behind one of the largest pieces of terrain that GW makes...

Either way, cry or rejoice, for I like the way the model was built as it actually embodies the "a colossal serpentine creature" bit of fluff that GW meant for it to be.

My theory is that while it can now hide behind terrain that's lower than the stock model, isn't it the other way, too? Now it CAN'T hide anymore behind terrain as skinny as the stock model can?

1 pro, 1 con. Seems fine.

Wow, that's a lot of heavy arguing back and forth. It's sad, really, since the modded Trygons do look much more dynamic, as you said before. Then, when people come in screaming "Modelling For Advantage!" then it just makes the whole experience quite sour (no offense to anyone who really is saying MFA), and then the hobby isn't so much fun.
Now, the way I see it, in order to avoid such argument in the future, if the opponent insists, you could maybe work something out before the game start to which both of you agree or something, so they can get right to blowing lascannon holes in said Trygon!
Okay, end of rant
Anyways, good job modelling, it looks much cooler than the stock model now!

I like it. I think it looks way more menacing and dynamic.

I really doubt it's MFA, unless there's a rare instance in which you would be completely out of LOS when you wouldn't otherwise, plus MC's only need 25% edition anyways.

Your trying a little too hard to win. I understand trying to make it look cool but this was obviously done just to make the model shorter. Good work anyway though.

im a nid player... and this is sooo MFA. look you took it from full height to half its height. even tho now you cant be like right up on something for cover. you can hide behind medium sized terrain and have nothing draw los. With true LOS this is MFA. not saying i'd flip out on the guy if he had 1 of his 3 played trygons like this but if he did it to all his trygons and big nids i'd get slightly peeved.

Perfect solution:

Use your altered model but for anything that relates to gameplay, e.g. checking whether it has cover, is in cover, can be seen etc. keep a spare original model and use it for that purpose.

/thread

 Sigvatr wrote:
Perfect solution:

Use your altered model but for anything that relates to gameplay, e.g. checking whether it has cover, is in cover, can be seen etc. keep a spare original model and use it for that purpose.

/thread

This is exactally what i would do as well...

Anyone who thinks the height difference of a model that size is going to be the difference between getting a cover save or not may need to see just how large that model is in person.

so you are telling me.... reducing a models height by almost half.. will not effect game play?

The trygon is modeled for disadvantage. rules say you cant target claws, horns, wings, or tails. it is raised up on its tail well above the height that any set of tyranid legs would place it.

Quick comparison:
on the Trygon it is 2.5 inches from the base to the center of the bottom arm socket(where legs would attach) from that point on the model stands straight up

On the Fex it is 1.25 and the model is severely hunched forward.

on the swarmlord/Tyrant it is 1.25 or 1.33 to the same socket .
on the Tervigon/Tyranno it is 2.75 to the same socket and that model is bent over to be almost on its chestplate.

The Trygon is a great looking model but it is poorly designed in game terms.considering you can;t target the tail that it sits on. it is like placing a skimmer or jetbike on a 2 1/2 post.

It's not a tail, it's part of its body.

I mean..come on now.

I say its amasing and your amasing for makeing the model.

First off, there is no such thing as the stock figure being "modelled for disadvantage" - the profile of the model is intrinsic to it's balance; it's up to you to then decide if that makes it overcosted or not.

Also I don't see any drama that so many people are mentioning on this - it's simply a debate as to whether or not this is modelling for advantage.

The bottom line is that yes, intentional or not, this is modelling for advantage; by the letter of the law, your Trygon can now get coversaves from Gaunts, which is pretty huge. HOWEVER , if I was playing against you, I would have no problem with you using that model - providing of course the win/loss didn't mean anything! If it did, as others have said simply measure against what would be the height of the Trygon if it would make a difference, and there wouldn't be a problem...

Lets not take away from the fact that this is an excellent piece of work!

so you are telling me.... reducing a models height by almost half.. will not effect game play?

Not at all. Im saying exactly what my post did.

I'll quote myself for the betterment of those who have difficulty reading.

Anyone who thinks the height difference of a model that size is going to be the difference between getting a cover save or not may need to see just how large that model is in person.

Covering 25 percent of a model that size isnt difficult, at all. The pose changes nothing at all when hiding behind most larger objects field-able in the game. The model got a 5+ save before and a 5+ save after the change.

All this whining over nothing, literally nothing.

it will now get a 5+ save from gants..

It would still have gotten one in the picture before the change.

Yup, and tbh the original pose kinda sucks.

so... mathematically speaking... for a trygon to get a cover save from gants he would have to be just over 4" tall... for someone on equal ground..

nice conversion. I think it does make it look a little smarter (^_^)

I made this last year for a friend, this reminded me of yours.

I just removed a single segment and called it quits - this looks much more indepth!

if you want to see more of it.

Looks good though.

I don't care if it's MFA. The Rule of Cool is in effect:



And that's cool.


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 Carnage43 wrote:
Pretty much textbook modelling for advantage. It's like modelling snipers lying down, or the "Crouching-fex".

Snipers should be modeled laying down. That's the world I want to live in.

I Agree - why should we have to model our models to conform to game standards?

If they really want to make a case out of it, just lift the model up and pretend it isn't modelled differently.

I once had someone claim that my tanks (whic basically don't stay together because the body isn't glued together) were modelled for advantage because they fell apart when they blew up. I hated that guy. He was TFG to me.

 Carnage43 wrote:
Pretty much textbook modelling for advantage. It's like modelling snipers lying down, or the "Crouching-fex".

With the Trygon I would not care at all. The thing has shooting attacks and by making it harder to hit you make it easier to hide from. It also looks cool. The best mode I have seen on one of them had the parts scattered over three different bases with the back two not counting to make it look like it was still half in the ground with a huge tail.

Sick figure, awesome flame war

I blame this lawless, permissive society we live in, it breeds imagination and well friends that sorta thing needs to be stamped out.

Firstly Excellent looking conversion!!! Kudos!! The basic pose is HORRIBLE for what the model represents!!!

Lastly this argument is why true line of sight blows for people who like to play and model dynamically

Honestly what typical terrain on a board will give a cover save short of a large building. Its not like he modeled it where he could hide completely behind a rhino. One of the best nid models i have seen and would play against it in a heartbeat.

I took his original post about standing up waiting to be hit in the face as a joke/sarcasm. In fact I thought that was obvious with his "slack jawed" comment and poking fun at the Trygon for basically being a slow.

I personally think it looks awesome and makes sense. My Guard would still focus fire that SOB down .

This is a great example of where I think that "true line of sight" is taking away from the customization of the models.

I would never tell someone they couldn't use this model. its fantastic.

the whole MFA thing to me, has always been bunk. I get it, I just disagree with it.

Nice repose. very nice.

I love the way this came out and I would have no issues playing against this in any non-competitive, or even a league, setting. That being said, rule of cool or not, this really does skirt MFA and I would have an issue in a tournament, or especially in a GT

 Battlesong wrote:
I love the way this came out and I would have no issues playing against this in any non-competitive, or even a league, setting. That being said, rule of cool or not, this really does skirt MFA and I would have an issue in a tournament, or especially in a GT

so the mixed signal here is, "great miniature I love it but don't you dare put it on the battlefield?"

I would have no problem playing against this (looks awesome!). As has been stated previously, what you lose in height, you gain in length, making it much more difficult for this model to hide behind narrow, tall terrain (which previously would be amazing for the Trygon). In a competitive setting, I would just make a note of how tall a normal Trygon is and then measure that high from the table if a conflict comes up.

I seriously don't see any problems with this guy, except that the tail has a hard bend as if someone stomped it into the ground angrily. As I play Orkz I wouldn't mind this (considering all the looted stuff being smaller than average Ork tech), it looks good to me.

 Rimmy wrote:

 Battlesong wrote:
I love the way this came out and I would have no issues playing against this in any non-competitive, or even a league, setting. That being said, rule of cool or not, this really does skirt MFA and I would have an issue in a tournament, or especially in a GT

so the mixed signal here is, "great miniature I love it but don't you dare put it on the battlefield?"

No, the clear signal there is "great minature, I love it and would not have any problems playing against it in a casual game, but in a tournament I'd have an issue".

Lol don't think anyone has anything new to say, same argument back and forth.

Love the mini cheers for sharing =)

Seriously... people who throw about modelling for advantage, in my experience have been the sorest losers in the world, and find the smallest thing to claim is the manor of their downfall... but thats from playing experience.

Anywho, OT, I love the new pose, somewhat similar to how I was going to do my second Mawloc. Judging from the new pose, it doesnt seem any different in height from a Tervigon imo, and those things are huge... I've had people shout MFA at me with my newly modelled Hive Tyrant with wings, which is silly, as its on the oval base as opposed to a 60mm base due to stability.

MFA is sticking every gun that a vehicle has right smack on the front of it. MFA is not posing a model for dynamics.

I only ever hear MFA in conjunction with large models, never with small models.

anywho, as I loved the fact your Trygon was like the artwork in the book, I thought I'd show my Mawloc, which was also based on its artwork (hope you don't mind)

Wow, that's awesome conversion job there, I have to admit!
I would view this as MFA (which is something I heartily dislike), as per the OP said he wanted to improve the trygon's chances to get a cover save, and the obvious advantage gained through the conversion. Though, I would let my opponent use this model, but only if treated as the original figure for shooting. Converting one's figures is okay and heck awesome when it's well done, but only as long as one doesn't seek to gain advantage from it.
P.S. Awesome mawloc also Even though I hate it when they come and blow up my marines...

 Mara wrote:
P.S. Awesome mawloc also Even though I hate it when they come and blow up my marines...

hehehehehe

 doc1234 wrote:

Carnage43 wrote:

doc1234 wrote:Wouldnt this be modeling for advantage?

on another note though, il admit, it looks a lot less slowed than the existing example. nice job

Pretty much textbook modelling for advantage. It's like modelling snipers lying down, or the "Crouching-fex".

Does look cool though.

arnt their a few sniper models laying prone sold that way anyway? same as the crouching legs done with SM kits.

also, i now want to see this crouching-fex, because in my head, its awesomely hilarious...

Yeah. Check the tau pathfinders with rail rifles and catachan snipers.

Uhmmm... Am I the only one that don't like the tail junctures? (hope it's the correct word)

 punkow wrote:
Uhmmm... Am I the only one that don't like the tail junctures? (hope it's the correct word)

a bit of GS and it'd be reet... its the potential I know and love about it

Awesome pose with the trygon good job!

As for everyone else; Warhammer 40k is a hobby first, then a game.

 Vid wrote:


As for everyone else; Warhammer 40k is a hobby first, then a game.

^ This times infinity!!!

 Vid wrote:
Awesome pose with the trygon good job!

As for everyone else; Warhammer 40k is a hobby first, then a game.

Someone needs to remind Games Workshop of that.

 Rimmy wrote:

 Vid wrote:
Awesome pose with the trygon good job!

As for everyone else; Warhammer 40k is a hobby first, then a game.

Someone needs to remind Games Workshop of that.

now now

 AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:

 Rimmy wrote:

 Vid wrote:
Awesome pose with the trygon good job!

As for everyone else; Warhammer 40k is a hobby first, then a game.

Someone needs to remind Games Workshop of that.

now now

sorry, I had good times working there, but the company is wretched. they make nice looking models I won't fault them there. but they need to be reminded who they work for.

 Rimmy wrote:

 AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:

 Rimmy wrote:

 Vid wrote:
Awesome pose with the trygon good job!

As for everyone else; Warhammer 40k is a hobby first, then a game.

Someone needs to remind Games Workshop of that.

now now

sorry, I had good times working there, but the company is wretched. they make nice looking models I won't fault them there. but they need to be reminded who they work for.

In fairness they work for themselves. They are a business, and they are in the business of making money. Principals are all very well but they don't rake in the cash these days.

We are the hobbyists, we should be the ones putting the hobby before the game. They only need to produce models and rules for us to play. Should we chose not to like their system or ethics we move onto the next system from another company its what we do.

For GW it isnt personal, its business.

 AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:


In fairness they work for themselves. They are a business, and they are in the business of making money. Principals are all very well but they don't rake in the cash these days.

We are the hobbyists, we should be the ones putting the hobby before the game. They only need to produce models and rules for us to play. Should we chose not to like their system or ethics we move onto the next system from another company its what we do.

For GW it isnt personal, its business.

Every business is in business to please its customers. As has always been the case, those that don't and forget, either die or take a HUGE loss.

I agree that we as a community drive the hobby, but we also have the power to drive the company if we try hard enough. there IS power in numbers. We stop buying, they will be forced to move.

I disagree on them making the rules. House rules work fine for me and mine. Some of them are just ridiculous, others are great. but ultimately even the game is a hobby too.

 Rimmy wrote:

 AnUnearthlyChilde wrote:


In fairness they work for themselves. They are a business, and they are in the business of making money. Principals are all very well but they don't rake in the cash these days.

We are the hobbyists, we should be the ones putting the hobby before the game. They only need to produce models and rules for us to play. Should we chose not to like their system or ethics we move onto the next system from another company its what we do.

For GW it isnt personal, its business.

Every business is in business to please its customers. As has always been the case, those that don't and forget, either die or take a HUGE loss.

I agree that we as a community drive the hobby, but we also have the power to drive the company if we try hard enough. there IS power in numbers. We stop buying, they will be forced to move.

I disagree on them making the rules. House rules work fine for me and mine. Some of them are just ridiculous, others are great. but ultimately even the game is a hobby too.

sorry, but there is no way you can effect a change, because the hobby is aimed at the young by enticing them with bright and shiney miniatures. sure the mainstay of us are veterans, but in the long term, there will always be more kids, that see the hobby as something new and shiney. while there are still kids, you won't make a dint on their profits.

anywho... I think out discussion has gone on long enough as we are in danger of threadjacking.

yea, this is definitely Modeling for Advantage, theres a difference in making a small change to make it more dynamic to straight chopping, from the off-set side by side poses, 1-2 full inches of height on a model that was intended to be a big mofo on the field PURELY just to gain cover saves and dont even attempt to deny it, you even said it yourself in the original post pretty much outright as a few people have already pointed out. They're designed and balanced to have the model they have hence the 6 wounds...they're SUPPOSED to be shot at a lot and take it, im not entirely sure but dont they have regeneration as well?

^Thanks for reviving the thread....

Anyway, we already discussed MFA wayyy too much here. I think we have hit a general consensus of "Casual, sure that looks awesome! Tourny or GT....maybe not". I personally love the model with a burning passion (okay bit much) and would love to see it on the field. Adds a nice contrast to a usually pretty static Nid force (which, they should be the least static)

in my opinion the modeling is actually creative and spices up some of the repetitiveness of the nids, and its not cutting corners on the model itself. i do like the dynamic position and it adds more realism. whether or not it gives the model 1 OR 2 cover saves doesn't really matter, warhammer 40,000 is a game, and we should treat it as such.

To the Eye of Terror with modelling for advantage! This Trygon looks like the ultimate badass! Really cool work, I may just have to steal the idea for my Trygon.....

Well done.

I may cite this thread if I ever write a thesis on why TLOS is foolish.

Very nice work, kudos on the movement feel you gave the model with such "little" work, so to say.

That being said, I think the sensible thing of any opponent to say when facing this trygon would be "We're not using that model's current position for the purpose of determining LOS, right?" before the battle even began. You know... get that issue cleared out to begin with.

Communication - it works!

This model brings some much needed variation to the Tyranid forces. So few poses, so many models, it really does shake it up. Kudos to you good sir, for your model looks fantastic. And honestly, it's really not worth getting too butthurt about a 5+ cover save...Tournament level, maybe, but in casual, definitely not.

Plus, now MCs get cover saves from area terrain. It's pretty easy to get them now.

I like it. It's different to look at, rather than the same old crap, ya know?

Now as to whether or not it's modeled for advantage, well, I'll just discuss that with my opponent before I play him. Maybe I'd magnetize it somehow for versatile modeling, if that's possible...