Lately I've noticed a lot of FLGS with almost no merchandise, and/or hardly stocked. Maybe they'll have some of the newest releases, but nothing extensive. This has also bore witness to something very funny that I hear often; when they tell me they can order something for me that they don't have in stock, like it's 1990 and I can't go home and do that myself, and likely get it quicker and cheaper.

Seriously, I know it sucks, but if you have a store, you got to carry merchandise. Otherwise it's almost like trying to have your cake and eat it too. I'm all about helping the little guy, but you got to have it on your shelf for me to help you. That's me meeting you halfway.

Because space is at a premium and they don't want to stock something unless they know it will sell, I guess. My FLGS is absolutely tiny, but they manage to fit more stuff than you'd think on their shelves. However, there are kits like the Stompa that have been there since they got it and still haven't sold. I do order things through the store since I get a discount and get to help out a local business. Yeah, I have to wait a week or so, but I've got no shortage of cool stuff to paint as-is.

I hear what ou are saying I def do try to support my local FLGS. Most of the time I leave emtpy handed. Mainly because cost is at Full MSRP. I can buy stuff at full MSRP anywhere.... give me a reason to come in and spend money!

My local sells FOW at higher than MSRP. I buy nothing to do with FOW, but his Infinity stuff is a good price... So I buy that.

Even though I have to order it through his store.

Yeah, these aren't hole in the walls either. They got the space, but seemingly at some point decided not to stock them like I've seen FLGS do as I've come up through the hobby. I'd also suggest to someone opening up any store, to pick a location big enough to operate in.

I might be enticed if they ordered something they didn't have in stock at a discount, but that's never offered. It's full price, and I've even been asked to pay that in advance which I'd never consider in store.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Milisim wrote:I hear what ou are saying I def do try to support my local FLGS. Most of the time I leave emtpy handed. Mainly because cost is at Full MSRP. I can buy stuff at full MSRP anywhere.... give me a reason to come in and spend money!

My local sells FOW at higher than MSRP. I buy nothing to do with FOW, but his Infinity stuff is a good price... So I buy that.

Even though I have to order it through his store.

I don't have a problem paying full MSRP at my FLGS, that's my way of helping them out, and helping the little guy. But to not have the merchandise, and obviously not make efforts to be fully or moderately stocked, that's lazy. I'm not helping that.


[

Several issues are driving this according to my FLGS.

1) GW wants you to pre-order stuff, but won't tell you what you are pre-ordering because they are afraid of leaks. Any sane store owner isn't ordering anything blind because they don't know if it will sell.

2) A lot of the Finecrap (Finecaste) and metal stuff is GW direct only, meaning the store can't stock it even if they wanted to. This pushes people from buying at the store even if they wanted to because if they are going to order, they might as well find a discount.

3) The prices are too high and my FLGS can't move it. In fact, they canceled their account and are dropping GW once again because GW stuff don't sell.

My local store has a fairly robust stock, and sell at MSRP, and I buy there quite frequently. There are two others in the area that have zero boxes on the shelf and do exactly what you are talking about. At MSRP. The few times I have wandered in there I have been amazed that they are still open.
My local store gets my business when they have the box on the shelf. If it's not, I don't even ask. I'll go home and order it myself, for 20% cheaper, and get it faster. They actually decided not to stock the new flamers and screamers. I went in, they didn't have any, I walked out.
If you ask me, the days of high profit margins for brick and mortar are gone, but it can still make a living if you have a proper business model. But you can't try and work both angles. It's not going to make you any new customers, and it's going to disappoint repeat customers like me.

MisterMoon wrote:Lately I've noticed a lot of FLGS with almost no merchandise, and/or hardly stocked. Maybe they'll have some of the newest releases, but nothing extensive. This has also bore witness to something very funny that I hear often; when they tell me they can order something for me that they don't have in stock, like it's 1990 and I can't go home and do that myself, and likely get it quicker and cheaper.

It's very true. It's hard to buy things that aren't on the shelf, and if I have to wait for it anyway, (ie order it), it makes it that much more difficult to justify.

Barfolomew wrote:Several issues are driving this according to my FLGS.

1) GW wants you to pre-order stuff, but won't tell you what you are pre-ordering because they are afraid of leaks. Any sane store owner isn't ordering anything blind because they don't know if it will sell.

2) A lot of the Finecrap (Finecaste) and metal stuff is GW direct only, meaning the store can't stock it even if they wanted to. This pushes people from buying at the store even if they wanted to because if they are going to order, they might as well find a discount.

3) The prices are too high and my FLGS can't move it. In fact, they canceled their account and are dropping GW once again because GW stuff don't sell.

Sadly, this is what my store said too, and I can't disagree. GW is hurting everyone with their B.S. model.

War Eagle!

Barfolomew wrote:Several issues are driving this according to my FLGS.

1) GW wants you to pre-order stuff, but won't tell you what you are pre-ordering because they are afraid of leaks. Any sane store owner isn't ordering anything blind because they don't know if it will sell.

2) A lot of the Finecrap (Finecaste) and metal stuff is GW direct only, meaning the store can't stock it even if they wanted to. This pushes people from buying at the store even if they wanted to because if they are going to order, they might as well find a discount.

3) The prices are too high and my FLGS can't move it. In fact, they canceled their account and are dropping GW once again because GW stuff don't sell.

Notice I didn't say EVERY FLGS. There are some I've been too who make every effort to be well stocked so they don't have these issues. They order new releases, so if there is an issue with "blind-ordering" they don't seem to mind. They have all the popular character models (Finecastes), so they don't have an issue with ordering those. Also if a store dropped GW, I'd just find somewhere else to game, but I see stuff moving off the shelf regularly at these FLGS, so it's selling fine.

There are some stores around here that push the "We can order it" line. I am surprised that they are still in business.

Stores need to start activities, leagues, etc. to get to know their customers. In doing so, they can better idea of the stock that will sell.

whitedragon wrote:

MisterMoon wrote:Lately I've noticed a lot of FLGS with almost no merchandise, and/or hardly stocked. Maybe they'll have some of the newest releases, but nothing extensive. This has also bore witness to something very funny that I hear often; when they tell me they can order something for me that they don't have in stock, like it's 1990 and I can't go home and do that myself, and likely get it quicker and cheaper.

It's very true. It's hard to buy things that aren't on the shelf, and if I have to wait for it anyway, (ie order it), it makes it that much more difficult to justify.

And for busy people, it's easier to plan ahead and mail order something and get it delivered than make an hour trip to pick something up that day.

Stuff with high shipping costs (like battlefoam) are different, and I suppose really small purchases like a blister might still be easier to order in store, but squad/vehicle boxes usually ship quickly and for a low cost. If it's not on the shelf on my gaming night, I can get it quicker by mail than the next time I get to the shop.

I think that's the deal. Most of us came up in gaming that on gaming night, you'd get a kit. You'd play a game, and say, boy I wish I had some more skimmers, or some tank support. It'd be there on the shelf in all it's glory, and you'd go home with it, and build/paint it up for the next game.

Now the store has, empty shelves, tables, MTG cards, smelly MTG players, and an owner more aloof to business acumen than a scarecrow.

Most GW stores around here seem to suffer the same problem. I refuse to order anything in a store. If the store cannot be bothered to stock things that I might want to buy, they don't get my impulse purchases. It's not much of an impulse buy if I have to wait a week for it to be delivered.

The GW store here is more than adequately stocked. Now, they don't have everything, but I don't expect a store to have everything- I never said they should. Not that GW stores shouldn't do a good list of things different. Store stock hasn't really been their issue.

I've just had it with stores who deliberately choose to carry very limited stock, make up these thinly veiled excuses for doing so, then give me the "we'll order it" line.

O good I thought it was just me. My local flgs does this as well. They still have all the old paint line. Won't buy the new tell they sell the old. Very strange.

On the plus side though I still have access to Devlan mud and Badab black

My local store is really bad about this. They have tons of space, the GW section is just barren shelves. They say they dont want to stock that much for merchandise that moves slow.

It has driven me from without question loyalty to only buying new releases there. If I pre-order it, I get it, otherwise I find other avenues. Most of the time I have an impulse buy need and can't get it, now it is like I dont even have the impulse buy needs anymore.

If the merchandise isn't moving, they aren't marketing it right. But I'm sure it's all GWs fault if you ask them about it.

Slightly off topic...
I think a lot of game store owners should have got in to other lines of work.
It's not like normal retail where you just put crap on shelves and wait for someone to come buy it.
You need to be a sales person, a game master, a rules lawyer, a fan boy. You need to be informed and excited about your products. You need to have the chops to build a community, hell SEVERAL communities.
If I walk in to your store, and half of the store is GW products, and I ask you "Where are the new Flamers and Screamers?" and you reply with "Where are the what?" you shouldn't be working in a game store with GW on the shelves.
Not if you want to stay in business.

matphat wrote:Slightly off topic...
I think a lot of game store owners should have got in to other lines of work.
It's not like normal retail where you just put crap on shelves and wait for someone to come buy it.
You need to be a sales person, a game master, a rules lawyer, a fan boy. You need to be informed and excited about your products. You need to have the chops to build a community, hell SEVERAL communities.
If I walk in to your store, and half of the store is GW products, and I ask you "Where are the new Flamers and Screamers?" and you reply with "Where are the what?" you shouldn't be working in a game store with GW on the shelves.
Not if you want to stay in business.

I'm totally with you on this. I have a BS in Business. So while I'm not some sort of business savy expert, I do know a thing or two about business and entrepreneurship. On that note, some of the crap I've heard from FLGS owners on this topic have been so deep in BS, I found it nearly insulting. I really wanted to tell them to save their excuses for the kidos. I've got cash, and you don't have merchandise, but a litany of excuses which don't add up.

On that note, the one best run FLGS in my area, which stays well stocked, has an owner who told me basically the same thing. There are a lot of folks in this industry who have NO BUSINESS in it.

I would like to support my FLGS, but I don't have one. I live in the middle of nowhere and the closest that SELLS models is 40 miles away (100 miles or so for a store that actually has gaming tables). I was in there the other day looking for Privateer Press stuff, and the only thing in the store is a beat-up copy of the Warmachine Two Player Battle Box that has been scotch-taped back together and has been sitting on the shelf since last December, at least, that they still want MSRP for. Not to be deterred, I asked if he would be getting the Hordes battle box when it was released and was told that he "could order it" and have it there for me 2 weeks after it is released. My options are to either drive a half-hour to a store that obviously doesn't care much about WarmaHordes and pay full retail + tax for an item that will have to be ordered, or get online and pay 20-30% less and have it delivered to me quicker than the store can get it. I'm all for supporting the little guy, and I understand that times are tough economically, but it seems like some store managers feel like they deserve your support, no matter what hoops you have to jump through to get the stuff you want.

MisterMoon wrote:I think that's the deal. Most of us came up in gaming that on gaming night, you'd get a kit. You'd play a game, and say, boy I wish I had some more skimmers, or some tank support. It'd be there on the shelf in all it's glory, and you'd go home with it, and build/paint it up for the next game.

Now the store has, empty shelves, tables, MTG cards, smelly MTG players, and an owner more aloof to business acumen than a scarecrow.

What store is this? Most ATL stores I been to have been pretty good. Gigabytes has low stock sometimes but they carry all kinds of stuff which I like.

MisterMoon wrote:Lately I've noticed a lot of FLGS with almost no merchandise, and/or hardly stocked. Maybe they'll have some of the newest releases, but nothing extensive. This has also bore witness to something very funny that I hear often; when they tell me they can order something for me that they don't have in stock, like it's 1990 and I can't go home and do that myself, and likely get it quicker and cheaper.

Seriously, I know it sucks, but if you have a store, you got to carry merchandise. Otherwise it's almost like trying to have your cake and eat it too. I'm all about helping the little guy, but you got to have it on your shelf for me to help you. That's me meeting you halfway.

Same. I don't normally order things through my local store, because it 1) is more expensive and 2) takes longer to get in.

Still, if I don't really need a model, but just kinda want it for my collection, I'll order it from them. Like I just ordered a Commander Dante from my LGS. I don't need him, I won't use him in any forseeable games, but I wanted the model for my collection. So I don't mind waiting a month to get him.

I agree, There is a store that has 20% off near me, but selection is so well, small. And ordering something off GW is expensive for 10$ shipping(unless i take it somewhere else.

My LGS stores feth all.

More insight at 11.

Not my local store, but there is one down on the coast who no longer really stocks anything GW. My mate told me, the guy was told not to open boxes to paint and sell on ebay or they'd remove his account or some such.

Guy chose to dump GW and continue to paint and sell on ebay, getting his minis from another party/2nd hand.

MisterMoon wrote:Lately I've noticed a lot of FLGS with almost no merchandise, and/or hardly stocked. Maybe they'll have some of the newest releases, but nothing extensive.

This is often a sign of a dying store, without sufficient operating capital to maintain proper stock levels.

The FLGS that I go to here rarely has any open space. It's almost a battle for them to find space to put new things up. They don't like ordering items when needed by customers because they then give a 10% discount, which means their making very little profit on the deal, so they make better money by providing a wide selection of merchandise in store to buy.

Unfortunately for them, most of what I buy is the lest purchased items, so they usually end up having to special order it.

And then these stores wonder why they struggle. I travel a lot and I have noticed the same thing all over the US. I love the line f how they can order it for you. I have the internet and have been able to do that myself since the 90's. One day I broke down and decided to order from my FLGS, so they wait for there normal weekly order to place my order with their distributor then I have to wait until the following week to get the item. So I have to wait 1.5 to 2 weeks to get something I could easily order on the internet for cheaper and get it in 3-5 days. yea right.

There's a new store near me that carries only GW, PP, Dust Tactics and a few RPG's. No CCG's, no other figure brands like reaper. and the result is alot of empty areas where shelves could be.

I asked the owner and he said they hoped to add more as the traffic grows, but I wonder if this will work. The best Game store (they stock nearly every brand of minis you can imagine) in the state is only about a half hour away.

Maybe they're hoping to be conservative and only stock what sells, but when you go in there and it looks nearly vacant it doesn't make you want to come back.

Eilif wrote:I asked the owner and he said they hoped to add more as the traffic grows, but I wonder if this will work.

It might work, but it's not a good idea. There's no guarantee that people who become regulars are interested in CCGs, and the CCG players that walk in right now and don't find them likely won't be back. Unless, of course, he's done his research and there's little interest in CCGs in the area.

However, bare wall space is never a good look for any shop. It gives the impression of the shop winding down and going out of business. A healthy game store will have well stocked shelves.

All of a sudden, atleast in this regard, I feel lucky to play in a relatively large GW store that has everything stocked all the time. (except, apparently, movement trays!)

My FLGS has a huge online store for baseball cards while he uses the physical store to sell comic books and every CCG under the sun.

He's almost non-reliant on GW sales but has a decent amount of stock on hand, and regularly orders the new releases.

When I started going to his shop there were no 40k events of any kind. A buddy and I started playing in his store and we now have a group of thirty-six people who are in and out of his store on the weekends.

Ordered the steel legion commissar and colonel Schaeffer through my FLGS. Wait a couple of weeks, hear nothing. 4 months later, "hey, we got those guys in that you ordered."

Literally my only complaint I've ever had with them. They've been great about everything else, and usually have stuff stocked (except basic guardsmen and ork boys for some reason) and everything else I've ordered comes in fairly soon. I ordered some meltaguns through him and they were there right on the 2 week mark like they were supposed to be. I don't know if those 2 guys had been lost in the post or what, but that was a really wierd experience.

MrMoustaffa wrote:Ordered the steel legion commissar and colonel Schaeffer through my FLGS. Wait a couple of weeks, hear nothing. 4 months later, "hey, we got those guys in that you ordered."

I had an experience like that. I ordered some bases from Iron Halo through them, and it took about 3 months to get them, due to a delay in putting my order in and Iron Halo forgetting to send my order. Eventually, I went in to check, and the owner said 'Didn't you find them in your letter box? I personally drove out there and hand delivered them.' I hadn't checked my letterbox in a couple of days, so when I got home I checked, and there they were with a nice apology.

That alone kept my business at the store.

We HAD a couple decent FLGS, but in the past 3-4 years they've been dropping like flies. Now there's just one grumpy guy sitting in a shop with bare GW racks, griping about GW's policies. That's pretty much it for about a 50 mile radius. There's an actual GW store 80ish miles away, but I miss the atmosphere you got in a GOOD FLGS. I find it much more enjoyable to talk to an independent seller rather than someone actually paid by GW.

So I guess I'm not the only one. This is really sorta sad. One thing I've picked up on is that you got to have some other sort of cash cow in the store. MTG work well, or it can even be RC airplanes. Comics are on the way out, but that used to work well.

There is a balance to having fully stocked shelves of everything that everyone could want vs. going broke on having too much inventory that doesn't move very often. If you don't have a good turn-over rate your going to go broke fast.

It comes down to having the knowledge and a good POS (point of sale) system that can give you the data on what is selling at your store.

It also comes down to knowing your customer base and knowing what they are working on and what is likely coming down the road.

I am the perfect example of the customer above. My FLGS owner knew I was contemplating starting WM/H and as I started with the Khador box set, he started making suggestions of what to look for, then low and behold the next week most of it was on the shelve for me to happen upon....

Smaller FLGS can't stock everything all the time.However they should have a good solid base for every army and a fair amount of the more popular items that people would want on impulse.

Well said Darefsky.

The successful game shops understand their customs and build a community around themselves.

The bad ones just go broke.

I would love to patronize my FLGS, but they seem to actively discourage me from giving them money. It's a small store, without a ton of space for stock and tables, and I get that, but God forbid you want something that they don't have at that moment. Once, I tried to order some Infinity figures, which they assured me they could get. When I came back a week later, they finally remembered to place the order. A week later, the wrong figure was waiting for me. The following week, the owner told me that it was impossible to get Infinity in the U.S. After crap like that, I don't give them my business.

 Tigerone wrote:
War Eagle!

Roll Tide!

someone had to say it.

 Piston Honda wrote:

 Tigerone wrote:
War Eagle!

Roll Tide!

someone had to say it.

War Damn Eagle!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Guildsman wrote:
I would love to patronize my FLGS, but they seem to actively discourage me from giving them money. It's a small store, without a ton of space for stock and tables, and I get that, but God forbid you want something that they don't have at that moment. Once, I tried to order some Infinity figures, which they assured me they could get. When I came back a week later, they finally remembered to place the order. A week later, the wrong figure was waiting for me. The following week, the owner told me that it was impossible to get Infinity in the U.S. After crap like that, I don't give them my business.

This is what kills me: BS excuses from the socially awkward flgs store owner. So many are getting like this.

 Apostle Pat wrote:
.......physical store to sell comic books and every CCG under the sun.

He's almost non-reliant on GW sales but has a decent amount of stock on hand, and regularly orders the new releases.

When I started going to his shop there were no 40k events of any kind. A buddy and I started playing in his store and we now have a group of thirty-six people who are in and out of his store on the weekends.

That quite frankly is what a FLGS generally needs to do to survive, and frankly I am fine with it. Many warhammer purchases are just buy a few and you are set for life on that unit, wherein mtg has editions that come and go keeping people buying.

 Wardragoon wrote:

 Apostle Pat wrote:
.......physical store to sell comic books and every CCG under the sun.

He's almost non-reliant on GW sales but has a decent amount of stock on hand, and regularly orders the new releases.

When I started going to his shop there were no 40k events of any kind. A buddy and I started playing in his store and we now have a group of thirty-six people who are in and out of his store on the weekends.

That quite frankly is what a FLGS generally needs to do to survive, and frankly I am fine with it. Many warhammer purchases are just buy a few and you are set for life on that unit, wherein mtg has editions that come and go keeping people buying.

Not only am I fine with this concept, I don't think there's any other way to do it. You simply can't run a store with only wall to wall GW miniatures, hell, you can't run a store with just table top miniatures from all major games. You need a variety of multiple gaming concepts in store. MTG is usually an easy cash cow with frequent new lines of cards, and decent margins. Board games do decent. Some stores even do RC planes and cars as a full range hobby store. HobbyTown USA comes to mind, as they are each locally owned, with some having a vibrant GW following.

While I understand why a retailer might be hesitant to stock what might not sell, it still kind of sucks to come back week after week seeing the same things (I guess because they aren't selling, huh? FULL CIRCLE!)

Actually the store I go to is this hybrid store that's deals in music (new/used), videogames (new/used), DVDs/BD/VHS (new/used), Comic books (new/used), and Table-top gaming stuff (new/used). And they seem to have a bigger focus on their music and movie part so the Table-top stuff (aside from MtG... go figure) doesn't get as much love. But it isn't all bad. Because they don't sell some items, they tend to be some 'vintage' stuff. For example they have a lot of old editions of some GW products like the old Carnifex with the weird looking smile or the old Wartrukk that was much smaller than the one they have now... I even came across an old Ulrick the Slayer blister.

It's a vicious circle as a small store to stock everything, especially since most stores do more than one line. I try to carry about 10 different game systems myself and every week requIres a decision on what to spend my limited resources on. Sometimes, you just have to place orders for people since you can't guess what everybody wants all the time. The other factors as well is that a lot of time, people want direct models, which can only be ordered specifically as they are prohibitive to ord in bulk.
One other factor I have found is that when my orders arrive on Friday, it is sold out by the end of the weekend, so on Monday or Tuesday, if you want something, it has to be ordered. Most of the time that's only a 3 day wait, and the gaming club gets a discount so I can't see it being anissue

 MisterMoon wrote:
Lately I've noticed a lot of FLGS with almost no merchandise, and/or hardly stocked. Maybe they'll have some of the newest releases, but nothing extensive. This has also bore witness to something very funny that I hear often; when they tell me they can order something for me that they don't have in stock, like it's 1990 and I can't go home and do that myself, and likely get it quicker and cheaper.

Seriously, I know it sucks, but if you have a store, you got to carry merchandise. Otherwise it's almost like trying to have your cake and eat it too. I'm all about helping the little guy, but you got to have it on your shelf for me to help you. That's me meeting you halfway.

A store can't sell what they don't have. The linkage between lack of stock and going out of business is a strong one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MisterMoon wrote:
So I guess I'm not the only one. This is really sorta sad. One thing I've picked up on is that you got to have some other sort of cash cow in the store. MTG work well, or it can even be RC airplanes. Comics are on the way out, but that used to work well.

Comics are on the way out? Who made that pronouncement of doom ?

Selling comics, and graphic novels, is not an easy thing to get into. It's not a sideline like getting in another paint rack or some model rockets. To do it right takes a lot of work and research. Very different animal from games, with different sales patterns.

Comics are one of my major 'cash cows'. I sell more comics than I do games. And my stores are pretty far above the average store in game sales. Comics and Games together can give a store a very solid sales base. But, it's like having two jobs, since the store needs to do both correctly, neither being a sideline.

 djphranq wrote:
While I understand why a retailer might be hesitant to stock what might not sell, it still kind of sucks to come back week after week seeing the same things (I guess because they aren't selling, huh? FULL CIRCLE!)

Actually the store I go to is this hybrid store that's deals in music (new/used), videogames (new/used), DVDs/BD/VHS (new/used), Comic books (new/used), and Table-top gaming stuff (new/used). And they seem to have a bigger focus on their music and movie part so the Table-top stuff (aside from MtG... go figure) doesn't get as much love. But it isn't all bad. Because they don't sell some items, they tend to be some 'vintage' stuff. For example they have a lot of old editions of some GW products like the old Carnifex with the weird looking smile or the old Wartrukk that was much smaller than the one they have now... I even came across an old Ulrick the Slayer blister.

I picked up a skull pass set a couple of months ago for its starting price when released, saying that they have a reasonable stock and have the new demon stuff, also still have dreadfleet.




I have no real FLGS near me sadly the nearest GW is a train journey away, anyone want to set up a FLGS in West Sussex, UK, I will work for free if you do lol

I have to agree with alot of these post...I hit my breaking point this past weekend. I moved to the area just over a year ago, I have not played a game in all that time. I have been keeping busy trding and painting etc. As I enjoy the total hobby this really didnt boher me much. We basically have 2 game stores here. Now back track a minute to Storm of Chaos, I pre-ordered $450 worth of it from LGS #1, it came in, I was happy and then they rang it up at full MSRP!! Now this was my own fault as I was used to how my old store treated me on large pre-orders..So I paid it happy to support a brick and mortar. So finally yesterday, I finally got a chance to play a game of malifaux with one of new found comrades...we started playing at 1'ish....at 3:30 the store manager (its all family owned and operated) said "hey start cleaning up we are closing the gaming room in 15 minutes." I said "3:45pm on a saturday!!??" he got kind of snotty about how they stay open till 6pm one saturday a month blah blah blah.. oh by theway, they charge $2.00 to get into the table room
and play, they say its donated to the local animal shelter, if it is then great, but I cant verify that.

Anyway this cemented the feeling that I had about this store, in that they are simply a retail store selling models, not a hobby store. This is the problem I think that some people are experienceing..a retail store just sells you product, usually at full MSRP and does little to nothing to support, grow or encourage the actualy hobby. While a hobby store may not have as much, but actually runs events, has a passion for the games it sells etc etc. So on my way out I went I stated that as a chaos player I was really excited about the new releases and planned on dropping at least $500ish (including two starter boxes) and what kind of discount I could get. They said none, because if they offer it to me they have to offer it to everyone (oh the humanity)...they said we really value your business..my reply was "no you dont...you want my money, but you dont value my business...you should learn the difference."

My New FLGS #2 has little in stock but can order me what I want...offered me 20% off without batting an eye with 50% down (no problem here)....

My FLGS is an example of this. They stock a little of a wide range of games, so as to be absolutely useless to beginners and veterans alike. I think the only GW Battleforce and Codex they have is the Space Marine stuff, and woe betide you if you're wanting to get Wood Elves.
... there are two reasons. One, is that they don't have enough capital. The store doesn't have enough stock to attract or retain customers.
The second is extremely confusing: the owners are not gamers, and never have been. They have no product knowledge, or investment or even real excitement about their hobby. I don't know who told them that a games store would be a good idea.
They also go with the idea 'we don't have what you want, but we can order it', which may have been good back in the days before electricity and you were afraid to send your sixpence in the mail, but these days it is far easier, quicker and cheaper to order online and get delivered to my door.

 mikhaila wrote:

 MisterMoon wrote:
Lately I've noticed a lot of FLGS with almost no merchandise, and/or hardly stocked. Maybe they'll have some of the newest releases, but nothing extensive. This has also bore witness to something very funny that I hear often; when they tell me they can order something for me that they don't have in stock, like it's 1990 and I can't go home and do that myself, and likely get it quicker and cheaper.

Seriously, I know it sucks, but if you have a store, you got to carry merchandise. Otherwise it's almost like trying to have your cake and eat it too. I'm all about helping the little guy, but you got to have it on your shelf for me to help you. That's me meeting you halfway.

A store can't sell what they don't have. The linkage between lack of stock and going out of business is a strong one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MisterMoon wrote:
So I guess I'm not the only one. This is really sorta sad. One thing I've picked up on is that you got to have some other sort of cash cow in the store. MTG work well, or it can even be RC airplanes. Comics are on the way out, but that used to work well.

Comics are on the way out? Who made that pronouncement of doom ?

Selling comics, and graphic novels, is not an easy thing to get into. It's not a sideline like getting in another paint rack or some model rockets. To do it right takes a lot of work and research. Very different animal from games, with different sales patterns.

Comics are one of my major 'cash cows'. I sell more comics than I do games. And my stores are pretty far above the average store in game sales. Comics and Games together can give a store a very solid sales base. But, it's like having two jobs, since the store needs to do both correctly, neither being a sideline.

@Mister Moon:
I setup an account with GW to sell their product at their lowest level 3 months ago. This is probably the level that the store you are talking about is at. My rep at GW would actively discourage me from ordering anything other than their "recommended" list and special orders until I got a chance to explain my business model to him.

He needed to know that:
1.) Yes, I know what I'm doing and I have a plan of growth. (This is not always the case with game retailers)
2.) I appreciate his suggestions, but it's my business and I am willing to take on more risk than is normal.
3.) Most importantly, I have a business model that is insulated against downturns in gaming, so yes they will always get paid.

To be honest with GW telling retailers not to stock full line added to the fact that CCG sales blow miniature sales out of the water in most stores, I can understand why the store you are talking about doesn't carry more models.

It's not how I do business, but I understand it.

@Mikhaila:
I think a lot of people are under the assumption that comics are in their death throes. With the rising popularity of web comics and the always amusing antics of the Big 2, people are thinking/being told that we are the last generation that will have comic books. What they don't see/hear about is the people walking in shops all over the country walking out with their books. Comics aren't a "cash cow" for me, my margins are almost as bad as dealing with Diamond, but I know people who are doing very well with them. I have an independent bookstore that sells games and you are absolutely right. In order to make money with them, you cannot treat games or comics as a sideline. Games take up more of my time than books, but only occupy 25% of my space (don't worry the margins make it worth it).

My store has barely any new Warmachine/Hordes merchandise aside the odd few new kits per month. I see stuff on the wall dating back to MK1 it's been there so long and when I do order something it takes several weeks for it to come in. Now I either just go to Warstore or order at home if I don't fancy a 50min drive.

Men at Arms has a modestly stocked GW section; during off season the walls get bare of product. I hardly get out to Brothers Grimm thanks to my job.

I just drive to the Warstore whenever I need something more expansive than GW and Mantic, which is what Jim stocks at his store.

 MisterMoon wrote:
Also if a store dropped GW, I'd just find somewhere else to game, but I see stuff moving off the shelf regularly at these FLGS, so it's selling fine.

The specific FLGS I am referring to is primarily a comic book store where I play MTG weekly. The store manager and I talk a fair amount and GW has come up from time to time, making fun of their laughable marketing and business model. GW basically gave them some inventory to try to get back in the store. The FLGS has had it one the shelf for 9 months and maybe sold 5% of the items. Table top gaming is not a big draw, and thus it is understandable that they don't draw.

The other two stores in the area that I could play at have other issues. One is infested with kids, the other is crammed and chaotic, neither have what I would consider "stocked' levels of models and I would guess based on discussions with thewarstore, it has to do with finecaste and metal models being direct only.

One of my local stores has devoted most of its space to providing gaming areas and tables and shelves of terrain and reference books to players, the only stuff they sell is behind the counter at the front, and its just basic stuff like dice, measuring tools, and CCG starter and blister packs, and maybe a few rulebooks and codexes. Oh, and snacks and drinks.
They don't stock any miniatures, but they do orders.
I guess they mostly try to run it as a venue for gaming, with regular events of all sorts (Magic the Gathering is on pretty much every day) and they stay open til like 10pm every night. I guess they probably pick up a lot of orders from the gamers who play there?

You know, after reading this thread, i'd swear you guys all all living in my area.

My local store has gaming events almost all week, MTG, Roleplaying, Wargaming, and such, yet the only new stuff they get in is the magic cards, and they seem to change every few months anyway. They say that Magic is their main money maker, along with comics, but i'm surpised, boosters are abot 7.50 and the monthly starters about 25, yet us warhammer players go in willing to drop hundreds of dollars at once and regulary ask about new GW products are the guys getting the cold shoulder.

Hell, my flat mate ordered in some Dystopia Wars stuff and after waiting a month for the stuff to arrived is still waiting for someone to price up the damn things so he can buy them.

 Lord Harrab wrote:
You know, after reading this thread, i'd swear you guys all all living in my area.

My local store has gaming events almost all week, MTG, Roleplaying, Wargaming, and such, yet the only new stuff they get in is the magic cards, and they seem to change every few months anyway. They say that Magic is their main money maker, along with comics, but i'm surpised, boosters are abot 7.50 and the monthly starters about 25, yet us warhammer players go in willing to drop hundreds of dollars at once and regulary ask about new GW products are the guys getting the cold shoulder.

Hell, my flat mate ordered in some Dystopia Wars stuff and after waiting a month for the stuff to arrived is still waiting for someone to price up the damn things so he can buy them.

Holy cow those are expensive boosters.

He's Australian I think.

 Lord Harrab wrote:
They say that Magic is their main money maker, along with comics, but i'm surpised, boosters are abot 7.50 and the monthly starters about 25, yet us warhammer players go in willing to drop hundreds of dollars at once and regulary ask about new GW products are the guys getting the cold shoulder.

You possibly underestimate just how many of those boosters they sell every time a new set is released.

MtG is a huge money spinner for a store that knows what it's doing. When a new set drops, people don't just buy a few boosters, they buy entire cases. Many of the tournament types involve the participants buying boosters or starters to use for that event... And then add in singles sales, and the amount of cash changing hands for competitive decks very quickly adds up.


All for much less shelf space, (and much less having to deal with Games Workshop) than selling an equivalent dollar value in 40K stuff.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sidstyler wrote:
He's Australian I think.

The flag with the red stars is New Zealand

Not to mention that with M:tG, the cards rotate out meaning players will have buy boosters/ boxes and singles again and again while in wargaming, usually your Tac Marine will still be a Tac marine 10 years from now and your buying stops when you've completed your army.

 insaniak wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sidstyler wrote:
He's Australian I think.

The flag with the red stars is New Zealand

Well now I just look stupid.

Honestly I just kinda did a quick glance, saw the blue flag and assumed Australia. The flags are similar enough I think it's fairly easy to make a mistake.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
The flag with the red stars is New Zealand

Well now I just look stupid.

Nah, they're similar enough to be an understandable mistake. It only looks stupid if you think they're the same place

The point to me, of a FLGS is that I can go in, hand over cash, and walk out with a product.
If I have to order it in, I'm buying online.

If I have to wait anyway, I'll take the discount and have it delivered to my home.
The FLGS advantage is instant gratification.
If they can't give me that, then they lose my business.

 insaniak wrote:

 Lord Harrab wrote:
They say that Magic is their main money maker, along with comics, but i'm surpised, boosters are abot 7.50 and the monthly starters about 25, yet us warhammer players go in willing to drop hundreds of dollars at once and regulary ask about new GW products are the guys getting the cold shoulder.

You possibly underestimate just how many of those boosters they sell every time a new set is released.

MtG is a huge money spinner for a store that knows what it's doing. When a new set drops, people don't just buy a few boosters, they buy entire cases. Many of the tournament types involve the participants buying boosters or starters to use for that event... And then add in singles sales, and the amount of cash changing hands for competitive decks very quickly adds up.


All for much less shelf space, (and much less having to deal with Games Workshop) than selling an equivalent dollar value in 40K stuff.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sidstyler wrote:
He's Australian I think.

The flag with the red stars is New Zealand

Huh, well consider me corrected.

Wow.
This thread has convinced me that I need to go spend more money at my FLGS. Why? Because of how great it is. Large store, large gaming space, friendly staff, well-stocked, clean, and just plain hospitable in general. And as luck would have it, there is ANOTHER terrific store only 10 more minutes away! Now I know how lucky I am.

----Also----

ROLL TIDE!

 MisterMoon wrote:
Lately I've noticed a lot of FLGS with almost no merchandise, and/or hardly stocked. Maybe they'll have some of the newest releases, but nothing extensive. This has also bore witness to something very funny that I hear often; when they tell me they can order something for me that they don't have in stock, like it's 1990 and I can't go home and do that myself, and likely get it quicker and cheaper.

Seriously, I know it sucks, but if you have a store, you got to carry merchandise. Otherwise it's almost like trying to have your cake and eat it too. I'm all about helping the little guy, but you got to have it on your shelf for me to help you. That's me meeting you halfway.

Recently moved and have begun exploring what FLGS are around. so far 2 are a bit too far away to reasonably go to on a weekly basis, one was closed but the last one has promise. SHowed up while they were having a FOW tournment going. Had lots and lots of FOW stock, but their GW stock was pretty thin- newest stuff around= like the new HH novel and ork fighter/bomber, but basic stuff like gretchin, boyz and other wasnt in stock. Still it has some promise. Bomber was below MSRP by 10% marked. reasonable hours and a tourney next month.

But did notice that stock was thin all around.

carmachu wrote:


But did notice that stock was thin all around.

GW stock has been noticeably thin in places where other manufacturers have penetrated the market; GW is simply too expensive to carry stuff everyone already has or goes and gets online/second-hand at a more affordable rate.

Its been years since Ive seen LGS with good stock. Even the largest one within driving distance (2 1/2 hours) has cut back their GW stock big time, as well as many other lines like Battletech, Reaper, etc. They used to have almost anything you could want. Now the big sellers are card games and pay-for-play video games on big screen TVs.

I dont mind paying full retail now and then if it supports a good store, but if they arent going to have what I need on the shelf...well theres no point in going. Im not going to drive to the store, put in an order, drive home, wait a week or two, drive back to the store, AND pay full price. If I have to order something Ill do it from home, get it quicker and cheaper, and save time and money from not having to drive to the store 2 times.

Something is causing most FLGS to carry only limited stock. This could be for a variety of reasons, but what's obvious is something changed in the market, and only few have figured out how to adapt. I know of 3 stores nationwide that have seemingly weathered the storm. They are the only ones I know with decent stock, and they all are very committed to the hobby. One poster spoke about a store with good stock, but wasn't dedicated to the hobby. I haven't seen this kind of store. Also any store which closes at 3pm on a Saturday is a store that will be dead to me, I can only game from 3 to LATE on Saturday. I have seen stores that other posters speak about where they have empty shelves, or kits that have been on the shelf for months and months, and I've heard their litany of excuses as to what GW is doing wrong, and it's not their fault. After I hear about their excuses which don't add up, I can only guess that they had a marketing strategy which failed, and here they are.

On the comics issue, I don't mean to upset the comic crowd, but these same great FLGS that I speak of use to sell comics, and all got out of comics within the last 10 years. It's just not what it used to be, and too labor intensive to rely on. This doesn't mean you can't use it as a good revenue source. You just have to have a super loyal customer base. It'd be a shame if our hobby is following the same footsteps.

 MisterMoon wrote:
Something is causing most FLGS to carry only limited stock. This could be for a variety of reasons, but what's obvious is something changed in the market, and only few have figured out how to adapt. I know of 3 stores nationwide that have seemingly weathered the storm. They are the only ones I know with decent stock, and they all are very committed to the hobby. One poster spoke about a store with good stock, but wasn't dedicated to the hobby. I haven't seen this kind of store. Also any store which closes at 3pm on a Saturday is a store that will be dead to me, I can only game from 3 to LATE on Saturday. I have seen stores that other posters speak about where they have empty shelves, or kits that have been on the shelf for months and months, and I've heard their litany of excuses as to what GW is doing wrong, and it's not their fault. After I hear about their excuses which don't add up, I can only guess that they had a marketing strategy which failed, and here they are.

On the comics issue, I don't mean to upset the comic crowd, but these same great FLGS that I speak of use to sell comics, and all got out of comics within the last 10 years. It's just not what it used to be, and too labor intensive to rely on. This doesn't mean you can't use it as a good revenue source. You just have to have a super loyal customer base. It'd be a shame if our hobby is following the same footsteps.

Well the FLGS I go to for warhammer is well stocked in most everything, and they are open from 9am-9pm 365 days a year ( This year I did my last minute xmas shopping and found out they are even open on christmas).....Unfortunately the store is also 130 miles away otherwise they could probably end up paying their wages off my purchases alone

The situation over in the UK is a bit different, what with there being a GW in just about every town and city in the country, but there are a few indie stores out there, and I have to agree with the prevailing sentiment: I'm not interested in your sob story, I want what I came for or I'll take my business to the web.

Yes yes, it's all very difficult at the moment, GW are unreasonable tyrants, and I sympathise, but in the modern age there are only two reasons to buy from a local store: they provide added value through a service you need(gaming tables, expert advice, etc etc), or they provide you with immediate access to the product you want. Ideally both.

If your response as a store owner who is struggling to sell certain products is to stop stocking those products, then expect your customers to endure the disadvantages of both traditional retail AND online retail if they want to buy them from you, you've got nobody to blame but yourself when those customers go elsewhere. Either stop trying to have your cake and eat it too, stop dealing with that line of products entirely, and accept the fact your customer base is going to narrow, or carry a decent range of stock, and put in the effort to build a community and promote the brand in order to increase your sales.

One other thing on MtG is that the entry barrier is quite low in comparison for people with ADD. The product is also ready to play right out of the box, no assembly or painting required.

Barfolomew wrote:
One other thing on MtG is that the entry barrier is quite low in comparison for people with ADD. The product is also ready to play right out of the box, no assembly or painting required.

Essentially MTG is true instant gratification, undoubtedly why it sells better than most other hobbies. I open a booster, bam I have 15 cards, 40k I open a box I have a box of sprues that I will need to go home, glue, paint, etc.

 WarOne wrote:


GW stock has been noticeably thin in places where other manufacturers have penetrated the market; GW is simply too expensive to carry stuff everyone already has or goes and gets online/second-hand at a more affordable rate.

As someone pointed out earlier- the whole point of a FLGS is to walk in and buy it. Right then and there. If its not there I wont order it- I'll go online and order it, get free shipping over $100 and have it at my door.

Thin because of other things doesnt matter to me.

We have 3 LGSs in our area here. One of them is like this for a couple of reasons. They don't stock a lot of GW stuff, simply because it doesn't sell. They just stock the bare minimum that GW tells them to. On the other side of the coin for some games, namely Flames of War, they can't keep it in stock, it just sells too well that they can't keep up and have had to resort to ordering for people.

The second store just stocks what's popular, Warhammer Warmachine/Hordes and Heroclix, along with some other off beat stuff and used books. Their main income comes from the card players, and fans of what's popular but mostly the card gamers. They used to carry a huge variety of stuff but over the years they've found that certain stuff just doesn't make money and isn't worth stocking.

The third stocks everything. EVERYTHING. Tabletop games, comics, toys, models, cards, anime, if it's geeky they probably have it. And charges an arm and a leg for it too. It's incredibly crowded in there despite being a fairly large space. They've had MAJOR problems with theft, so much so that they're extremely paranoid of whoever walks through that door- even repeat regular customers. Especially repeat regular customers. Needless to say, we don't shop there anymore.


Honestly our preferred store to go to is the first one. Their general mentality is less so on the selling you something and more on the you spending your time there playing and having fun. They have more room for more tables, and even have several large dedicated gaming tables covered in terrain. The other two stores just don't have the space with all the merchandise- or rather you can't easily get to the merchandise since the players and what tables they have are in the way.

I think it is because of the distribution.

They as well have to cut into the profits, thus- your paying for a product that is being fought over like a couple of dogs fighting over the same meat.

So.

You go in and buy a product, they have to order it from a distributor, who has to get it from a company ( who is already charging your arm and leg.)

Add into the fact about postage... taxes.... price of the overhead for the store.... etc.etc.etc.


Its a wonder that they can keep the door open.

I was always curious as to that "The Distributor doesn't have it in stock..." angle. Alliance is one I know of, there are a few others, but these guys are pretty much the leash hold on your FLGS.

Guess that my flgs is doing alright then. Its about the same size as a cottage, but is right next to the train station, sells everything at a 10-15% discount, has GW, MTG, Mantic, Dystopian Wars and Warmachine/Hordes stacked to the ceilings (not joking), as well as a tonne of Boardgames. They still have room to squeeze in two tables for gaming, and the guys are the best staff I have ever talked to. Seriously, the manager is cool, one of the guys is a metalhead (automatically on my friend's list), and even the ginger guy is cool *ducks hail of antigingerist hate*

 Grot 6 wrote:


I was always curious as to that "The Distributor doesn't have it in stock..." angle. Alliance is one I know of, there are a few others, but these guys are pretty much the leash hold on your FLGS.

Having a couple of friends who owned a game store for a while this was a very real thing. They gave priority to larger stores. So very often the smaller retailers got shafted with not getting the inventory that they wanted.

And on the subject of MTG one of those same guys said it best.

"Magic is like pull tabs for kids. Sometimes you get junk, sometimes you get a card that is worth over fifty bucks."

 Grot 6 wrote:
I think it is because of the distribution.

They as well have to cut into the profits, thus- your paying for a product that is being fought over like a couple of dogs fighting over the same meat.

So.

You go in and buy a product, they have to order it from a distributor, who has to get it from a company ( who is already charging your arm and leg.)

Add into the fact about postage... taxes.... price of the overhead for the store.... etc.etc.etc.


Its a wonder that they can keep the door open.

I was always curious as to that "The Distributor doesn't have it in stock..." angle. Alliance is one I know of, there are a few others, but these guys are pretty much the leash hold on your FLGS.

From what I understand, at least here in the USA, is that GW stock carriers usually order directly from GW itself.

The main FLGS I go to is incredibly popular, with few people doing as you all do in regards to orders. The store still has GW stock from probably when it first opened, but they get in a little bit of every new release. Any and all games are able to be played, with major games getting a night where they get played in the store by many people. I guess I'm lucky that I have a great store within a short drive away. I also have a GW near me, but I'd rather not talk about that store...

 Redbeard wrote:
Most GW stores around here seem to suffer the same problem. I refuse to order anything in a store. If the store cannot be bothered to stock things that I might want to buy, they don't get my impulse purchases. It's not much of an impulse buy if I have to wait a week for it to be delivered.

I tend to agree if a business doesn't bother to have a good stock level why should I order something, wait for it to get to the store, and then pay gas to drive to the store and then back to my house? I could just order it online at a discount and not worry about all the other bs (and probably get my item faster......)

brettz123 wrote:

 Redbeard wrote:
Most GW stores around here seem to suffer the same problem. I refuse to order anything in a store. If the store cannot be bothered to stock things that I might want to buy, they don't get my impulse purchases. It's not much of an impulse buy if I have to wait a week for it to be delivered.

I tend to agree if a business doesn't bother to have a good stock level why should I order something, wait for it to get to the store, and then pay gas to drive to the store and then back to my house? I could just order it online at a discount and not worry about all the other bs (and probably get my item faster......)

When a brick and mortar doesn't have what I'm interested in, do I automatically go home and order online? Well, it depends.

1. Does this store generally carry things that I want, and they just so happen not to have an obscure model like Shrike riding a bike with a thunder hammer? (I made that up) or something very particular. Or is it something like a Land Raider, and I've never seen him have a LR in his store before. That's lazy imo, and more or less turns me off to the store in earning my business.
2. Does the store owner then tell me he'll give me a discount, or expect me to pay full MSRP and wait?
3. Basically I want to see some level of effort that the FLGS appreciates the hobby and hobbyists, having good stock levels is a reflection of this. I think that most posters on this thread are of this line of thinking as well.

The FLGS model is total different today than even 10 years ago. In a sense, i think it is even easier, but you have to remember that your FLGS is not a store, but a clubhouse for gamers.

I would have very thin stock of bulky physical products on the floor. There are way too many flavors of the month to keep inventory around. For example, one of my local stores got completely burned on Dreadfleet, and still have 50+ boxes sitting around unopened.

In addition, I would have a relatively small, low rent place with low overhead costs. Therefore, no flashy signs that eat up electricity, no huge TVs, not music even. I wouldn;t have a bunch of display racks either, because those are expensive and take up space that should be used for game tables. Just a couple soda machines, a pre-wrapped snack counter, and lot's of places to play.

You see, the money would not come form high risk/low margin products like GW models, FOW boxes, etc. It would come from food and low cost, high turnover CCG games, low inventory board games, and reselling previously used stuff. The idea is to get a lot of bodies in there playing games an dhaving fun, and then selling them immediate gratification products. Everything else would be order only.

You only need to sell 3,000 cans of soda a month, or 100 a day to pay overhead on the average size store front in my town.

I love a deal like everyone else, but I wouldn't mind spending a little more to offset the store owners costs if he kept a good selection on the shelf. The local hobby store is a great place to hang out and shoot the breeze when the proprietor is cool. All too often though, I find the owner or person working the desk is a real turd and feels they're doing ME a favor by having a store at all.

This isn't as common now as it was before the prevalency of internet hobby stores, but you still find these guys running little dusty holes-in-the-wall with no customer service or a personality for that matter.

I have very fond memories of friends gathering at the local game store that I don't think will ever be repeated. Those days are long gone unfortunately.

Thankfully, most of those folks I met years ago gather at my place a couple times a month. It's not quite the same though.

Edit: TOO not to... I hate that.

 Easy E wrote:
The FLGS model is total different today than even 10 years ago. In a sense, i think it is even easier, but you have to remember that your FLGS is not a store, but a clubhouse for gamers.

I would have very thin stock of bulky physical products on the floor. There are way too many flavors of the month to keep inventory around. For example, one of my local stores got completely burned on Dreadfleet, and still have 50+ boxes sitting around unopened.

In addition, I would have a relatively small, low rent place with low overhead costs. Therefore, no flashy signs that eat up electricity, no huge TVs, not music even. I wouldn;t have a bunch of display racks either, because those are expensive and take up space that should be used for game tables. Just a couple soda machines, a pre-wrapped snack counter, and lot's of places to play.

You see, the money would not come form high risk/low margin products like GW models, FOW boxes, etc. It would come from food and low cost, high turnover CCG games, low inventory board games, and reselling previously used stuff. The idea is to get a lot of bodies in there playing games an dhaving fun, and then selling them immediate gratification products. Everything else would be order only.

You only need to sell 3,000 cans of soda a month, or 100 a day to pay overhead on the average size store front in my town.

Actually Soda machines are really expensive, you are pinching pennies and losing dollars, display racks make the product known, for instance if I were to go into that FLGS and not see any GW products on display I would not bother asking if you had the product, since you want as much new blood as possible, meaning that displays are wanted and nice, now all you have to get is wire shelving from walmart for display cases.
As to the soda thing honestly just buy a small fridge and keep a little bit of each thing in it, if a thievery problem occurs you can just put the fridge behind the counter and have you or an employee grab the soda.

Good point about the firdge.

As for no GW, guess what... I wouldn't have them because they don't really make me money. Getting into GW is too much initial cost, with lower turnover product, with me having to do a lot of work building a "community".

No thanks. CCG's and board games are much easier right now.

 Easy E wrote:
Good point about the firdge.

As for no GW, guess what... I wouldn;t have them because they don't really make me money.

Well my point was that if I dont see that you have it I won't even think of asking for it, so if you only have CCGs on display than I wouldnt bother asking about RPGs or TTGs, and vice versa.


EDIT: So what I am trying to get at is that display cases will make me willing to try new games as well as impulse buy, and impulse buys are the lifeblood of nearly all stores.

 MisterMoon wrote:

brettz123 wrote:

 Redbeard wrote:
Most GW stores around here seem to suffer the same problem. I refuse to order anything in a store. If the store cannot be bothered to stock things that I might want to buy, they don't get my impulse purchases. It's not much of an impulse buy if I have to wait a week for it to be delivered.

I tend to agree if a business doesn't bother to have a good stock level why should I order something, wait for it to get to the store, and then pay gas to drive to the store and then back to my house? I could just order it online at a discount and not worry about all the other bs (and probably get my item faster......)

When a brick and mortar doesn't have what I'm interested in, do I automatically go home and order online? Well, it depends.

1. Does this store generally carry things that I want, and they just so happen not to have an obscure model like Shrike riding a bike with a thunder hammer? (I made that up) or something very particular. Or is it something like a Land Raider, and I've never seen him have a LR in his store before. That's lazy imo, and more or less turns me off to the store in earning my business.
2. Does the store owner then tell me he'll give me a discount, or expect me to pay full MSRP and wait?
3. Basically I want to see some level of effort that the FLGS appreciates the hobby and hobbyists, having good stock levels is a reflection of this. I think that most posters on this thread are of this line of thinking as well.

Good points I agree with you on those. It isn't so much that they don't have specifically what I want. There could be reasons for that. But if you have just a generally low level of stock I probably won't shop with you.

 Easy E wrote:
Good point about the firdge.

As for no GW, guess what... I wouldn't have them because they don't really make me money. Getting into GW is too much initial cost, with lower turnover product, with me having to do a lot of work building a "community".

No thanks. CCG's and board games are much easier right now.

huh? When we originally started carrying GW, it was $1,500. That's not a high cost. And it has an exceptional turnover. The community will pretty much build itself, unlike CCG players who require a lot of micro management or they will go elsewhere

Yeah CCG players are like dairy cattle... lol

I also wouldn't open up a gaming store if all I was doing was opening up a glorified snack bar. I'm not sure anyone does, and if a store is just running on cash from the Coke machine, that's a store on it's last leg...

 Easy E wrote:
The FLGS model is total different today than even 10 years ago. In a sense, i think it is even easier, but you have to remember that your FLGS is not a store, but a clubhouse for gamers.

The world is littered with the graves of gaming stores that were run as a clubhouse instead of as a serious business...

I would have very thin stock of bulky physical products on the floor. There are way too many flavors of the month to keep inventory around. For example, one of my local stores got completely burned on Dreadfleet, and still have 50+ boxes sitting around unopened.

That's not a problem of keeping physical inventory, that's a problem with ordering 50+ copies of Dreadfleet...

In addition, I would have a relatively small, low rent place with low overhead costs. Therefore, no flashy signs that eat up electricity, no huge TVs, not music even. I wouldn;t have a bunch of display racks either, because those are expensive and take up space that should be used for game tables. Just a couple soda machines, a pre-wrapped snack counter, and lot's of places to play.

The thing is, the music, the displays and the general spiffing up of the space are what make a store an inviting place to play. If you're just going to set up tables in a dingy back room, I can guarantee you that a percentage of your potential clientelle are going to stick their head in the door, take one look and keep walking. You need to make it somewhere that people are going to be comfortable spending an afternoon. Or a day.

And if you're intending to make money solely off gamers being there to play games rather than on sales, 'relatively small' doesn't work. You're not going to sell 3000 cans of soda a month in a 'relatively small' gaming space. You would need to be running some pretty serious events to pull in enough cash to make your overheads... and that means you need serious table space.



Don't get me wrong, the idea of setting up a dedicated gaming venue is one I've been toying with myself for some time, and is something that I think is feasible if done right... but it's not as simple as dropping some tables in an empty shop and waiting for the cash to pour in, and wouldn't be cheap or easy to get started in a way that is actually going to last.

 Easy E wrote:
The FLGS model is total different today than even 10 years ago. In a sense, i think it is even easier, but you have to remember that your FLGS is not a store, but a clubhouse for gamers.

I would have very thin stock of bulky physical products on the floor. There are way too many flavors of the month to keep inventory around. For example, one of my local stores got completely burned on Dreadfleet, and still have 50+ boxes sitting around unopened.

In addition, I would have a relatively small, low rent place with low overhead costs. Therefore, no flashy signs that eat up electricity, no huge TVs, not music even. I wouldn;t have a bunch of display racks either, because those are expensive and take up space that should be used for game tables. Just a couple soda machines, a pre-wrapped snack counter, and lot's of places to play.

You see, the money would not come form high risk/low margin products like GW models, FOW boxes, etc. It would come from food and low cost, high turnover CCG games, low inventory board games, and reselling previously used stuff. The idea is to get a lot of bodies in there playing games an dhaving fun, and then selling them immediate gratification products. Everything else would be order only.

You only need to sell 3,000 cans of soda a month, or 100 a day to pay overhead on the average size store front in my town.

This is what most 9/10 game stores have done in the last 20 years and why 9/10 of them are out of business.

Having a small inventory is usually a sign of not enough cash flow. Also if the same inventory has been sitting on the shelf for years on end the store should discount it to move it - put it in a sales bin or ebay it. Big retailers don't keep the same products on their shelves for years on end. Free up the money invested in the inventory to buy new inventory that people might want.

Having operated on the Internet with store front on our old warehouse and now having huge store and gaming venue.. I think I can jump in here.

Huge amount of effort and risk involved in opening a gaming store. It is not because you re competing with online trade. That will always be quoted by those that cant "get it".

There will always be customers that want to pick the item up and take away that day. There are customers that only ship online and there are others that mix their purchasing. So one thing is for sure you have customers available unless you place your store in the Mongolia desert.

Stock is a difficult one as inventory will tie up and destroy your cash flow quicker than me typing this. The balance required, especially for a small start up is a knife edge thin balance.

Too many store owners stock up on stuff they really like and not on what really sells, that is obvious whereever you go.

You then have the pretty woeful product information and readiness for retail of almost all manufacturers in this industry. fraction have barcodes, a fraction have decent epos data available from one central source (mfr). That makes it really difficult for stores to put in place decent epos, purchasing and cost controls in place. The manufacturers shoot themselves in the foot as well because they should do all they can to enable sales, not make it a pain to manage inventory.

Fact is in this day and age every brick and mortar store should have it's own Online store as well!

Truth is and sorry if this offends any store owners but everyone I have ever met has been a terrible buisiness man. Probably due to if he wasn't he would have done something more profitable like a hot wings resturant or something.

Fact is they should all have a online store. If it's not in stock their only question to the customer should be do they want to pick it up in the store or have it shipped to their house?
20% off no shipping if picked up in the store, 20% + shipping if you want it to come to your house. Pay for it in store, and away you go.

Plus that way your moving your store inventory in 2 directions. Lastly don't let junk sit on the shelf for years, and years. You've had that Stompa on the wall for over a year?

Pull it down, put a raffle box in front of it. $1 a ticket, throw some other stuff that hasn't sold with it. That way more than 1 person can win.
Or make it part of a Tournament prize. Start an apocolypse league to get interest in unusual gaming pieces.

I gave up on local games stores awhile back. Poor business models, and they are always cramming the place full of BO'd school kids to play magic drafts at $20 a pop.

Sure it's money but you wonder why all that TT stuff is collecting dust, and everyone is playing at someone else's house and not your store? Well there you go.

Yeah, the Online Store component is a must now days.

Of course, the first step would be to create a business plan and then run the numbers.

I have a feeling that the retail game store model has some paper thin margins, and you will never get rich off of it.