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 insaniak wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sidstyler wrote:
He's Australian I think.

The flag with the red stars is New Zealand

Well now I just look stupid.

Honestly I just kinda did a quick glance, saw the blue flag and assumed Australia. The flags are similar enough I think it's fairly easy to make a mistake.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
The flag with the red stars is New Zealand

Well now I just look stupid.

Nah, they're similar enough to be an understandable mistake. It only looks stupid if you think they're the same place

The point to me, of a FLGS is that I can go in, hand over cash, and walk out with a product.
If I have to order it in, I'm buying online.

If I have to wait anyway, I'll take the discount and have it delivered to my home.
The FLGS advantage is instant gratification.
If they can't give me that, then they lose my business.

 insaniak wrote:

 Lord Harrab wrote:
They say that Magic is their main money maker, along with comics, but i'm surpised, boosters are abot 7.50 and the monthly starters about 25, yet us warhammer players go in willing to drop hundreds of dollars at once and regulary ask about new GW products are the guys getting the cold shoulder.

You possibly underestimate just how many of those boosters they sell every time a new set is released.

MtG is a huge money spinner for a store that knows what it's doing. When a new set drops, people don't just buy a few boosters, they buy entire cases. Many of the tournament types involve the participants buying boosters or starters to use for that event... And then add in singles sales, and the amount of cash changing hands for competitive decks very quickly adds up.


All for much less shelf space, (and much less having to deal with Games Workshop) than selling an equivalent dollar value in 40K stuff.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sidstyler wrote:
He's Australian I think.

The flag with the red stars is New Zealand

Huh, well consider me corrected.

Wow.
This thread has convinced me that I need to go spend more money at my FLGS. Why? Because of how great it is. Large store, large gaming space, friendly staff, well-stocked, clean, and just plain hospitable in general. And as luck would have it, there is ANOTHER terrific store only 10 more minutes away! Now I know how lucky I am.

----Also----

ROLL TIDE!

 MisterMoon wrote:
Lately I've noticed a lot of FLGS with almost no merchandise, and/or hardly stocked. Maybe they'll have some of the newest releases, but nothing extensive. This has also bore witness to something very funny that I hear often; when they tell me they can order something for me that they don't have in stock, like it's 1990 and I can't go home and do that myself, and likely get it quicker and cheaper.

Seriously, I know it sucks, but if you have a store, you got to carry merchandise. Otherwise it's almost like trying to have your cake and eat it too. I'm all about helping the little guy, but you got to have it on your shelf for me to help you. That's me meeting you halfway.

Recently moved and have begun exploring what FLGS are around. so far 2 are a bit too far away to reasonably go to on a weekly basis, one was closed but the last one has promise. SHowed up while they were having a FOW tournment going. Had lots and lots of FOW stock, but their GW stock was pretty thin- newest stuff around= like the new HH novel and ork fighter/bomber, but basic stuff like gretchin, boyz and other wasnt in stock. Still it has some promise. Bomber was below MSRP by 10% marked. reasonable hours and a tourney next month.

But did notice that stock was thin all around.

carmachu wrote:


But did notice that stock was thin all around.

GW stock has been noticeably thin in places where other manufacturers have penetrated the market; GW is simply too expensive to carry stuff everyone already has or goes and gets online/second-hand at a more affordable rate.

Its been years since Ive seen LGS with good stock. Even the largest one within driving distance (2 1/2 hours) has cut back their GW stock big time, as well as many other lines like Battletech, Reaper, etc. They used to have almost anything you could want. Now the big sellers are card games and pay-for-play video games on big screen TVs.

I dont mind paying full retail now and then if it supports a good store, but if they arent going to have what I need on the shelf...well theres no point in going. Im not going to drive to the store, put in an order, drive home, wait a week or two, drive back to the store, AND pay full price. If I have to order something Ill do it from home, get it quicker and cheaper, and save time and money from not having to drive to the store 2 times.

Something is causing most FLGS to carry only limited stock. This could be for a variety of reasons, but what's obvious is something changed in the market, and only few have figured out how to adapt. I know of 3 stores nationwide that have seemingly weathered the storm. They are the only ones I know with decent stock, and they all are very committed to the hobby. One poster spoke about a store with good stock, but wasn't dedicated to the hobby. I haven't seen this kind of store. Also any store which closes at 3pm on a Saturday is a store that will be dead to me, I can only game from 3 to LATE on Saturday. I have seen stores that other posters speak about where they have empty shelves, or kits that have been on the shelf for months and months, and I've heard their litany of excuses as to what GW is doing wrong, and it's not their fault. After I hear about their excuses which don't add up, I can only guess that they had a marketing strategy which failed, and here they are.

On the comics issue, I don't mean to upset the comic crowd, but these same great FLGS that I speak of use to sell comics, and all got out of comics within the last 10 years. It's just not what it used to be, and too labor intensive to rely on. This doesn't mean you can't use it as a good revenue source. You just have to have a super loyal customer base. It'd be a shame if our hobby is following the same footsteps.

 MisterMoon wrote:
Something is causing most FLGS to carry only limited stock. This could be for a variety of reasons, but what's obvious is something changed in the market, and only few have figured out how to adapt. I know of 3 stores nationwide that have seemingly weathered the storm. They are the only ones I know with decent stock, and they all are very committed to the hobby. One poster spoke about a store with good stock, but wasn't dedicated to the hobby. I haven't seen this kind of store. Also any store which closes at 3pm on a Saturday is a store that will be dead to me, I can only game from 3 to LATE on Saturday. I have seen stores that other posters speak about where they have empty shelves, or kits that have been on the shelf for months and months, and I've heard their litany of excuses as to what GW is doing wrong, and it's not their fault. After I hear about their excuses which don't add up, I can only guess that they had a marketing strategy which failed, and here they are.

On the comics issue, I don't mean to upset the comic crowd, but these same great FLGS that I speak of use to sell comics, and all got out of comics within the last 10 years. It's just not what it used to be, and too labor intensive to rely on. This doesn't mean you can't use it as a good revenue source. You just have to have a super loyal customer base. It'd be a shame if our hobby is following the same footsteps.

Well the FLGS I go to for warhammer is well stocked in most everything, and they are open from 9am-9pm 365 days a year ( This year I did my last minute xmas shopping and found out they are even open on christmas).....Unfortunately the store is also 130 miles away otherwise they could probably end up paying their wages off my purchases alone

The situation over in the UK is a bit different, what with there being a GW in just about every town and city in the country, but there are a few indie stores out there, and I have to agree with the prevailing sentiment: I'm not interested in your sob story, I want what I came for or I'll take my business to the web.

Yes yes, it's all very difficult at the moment, GW are unreasonable tyrants, and I sympathise, but in the modern age there are only two reasons to buy from a local store: they provide added value through a service you need(gaming tables, expert advice, etc etc), or they provide you with immediate access to the product you want. Ideally both.

If your response as a store owner who is struggling to sell certain products is to stop stocking those products, then expect your customers to endure the disadvantages of both traditional retail AND online retail if they want to buy them from you, you've got nobody to blame but yourself when those customers go elsewhere. Either stop trying to have your cake and eat it too, stop dealing with that line of products entirely, and accept the fact your customer base is going to narrow, or carry a decent range of stock, and put in the effort to build a community and promote the brand in order to increase your sales.

One other thing on MtG is that the entry barrier is quite low in comparison for people with ADD. The product is also ready to play right out of the box, no assembly or painting required.

Barfolomew wrote:
One other thing on MtG is that the entry barrier is quite low in comparison for people with ADD. The product is also ready to play right out of the box, no assembly or painting required.

Essentially MTG is true instant gratification, undoubtedly why it sells better than most other hobbies. I open a booster, bam I have 15 cards, 40k I open a box I have a box of sprues that I will need to go home, glue, paint, etc.

 WarOne wrote:


GW stock has been noticeably thin in places where other manufacturers have penetrated the market; GW is simply too expensive to carry stuff everyone already has or goes and gets online/second-hand at a more affordable rate.

As someone pointed out earlier- the whole point of a FLGS is to walk in and buy it. Right then and there. If its not there I wont order it- I'll go online and order it, get free shipping over $100 and have it at my door.

Thin because of other things doesnt matter to me.

We have 3 LGSs in our area here. One of them is like this for a couple of reasons. They don't stock a lot of GW stuff, simply because it doesn't sell. They just stock the bare minimum that GW tells them to. On the other side of the coin for some games, namely Flames of War, they can't keep it in stock, it just sells too well that they can't keep up and have had to resort to ordering for people.

The second store just stocks what's popular, Warhammer Warmachine/Hordes and Heroclix, along with some other off beat stuff and used books. Their main income comes from the card players, and fans of what's popular but mostly the card gamers. They used to carry a huge variety of stuff but over the years they've found that certain stuff just doesn't make money and isn't worth stocking.

The third stocks everything. EVERYTHING. Tabletop games, comics, toys, models, cards, anime, if it's geeky they probably have it. And charges an arm and a leg for it too. It's incredibly crowded in there despite being a fairly large space. They've had MAJOR problems with theft, so much so that they're extremely paranoid of whoever walks through that door- even repeat regular customers. Especially repeat regular customers. Needless to say, we don't shop there anymore.


Honestly our preferred store to go to is the first one. Their general mentality is less so on the selling you something and more on the you spending your time there playing and having fun. They have more room for more tables, and even have several large dedicated gaming tables covered in terrain. The other two stores just don't have the space with all the merchandise- or rather you can't easily get to the merchandise since the players and what tables they have are in the way.

I think it is because of the distribution.

They as well have to cut into the profits, thus- your paying for a product that is being fought over like a couple of dogs fighting over the same meat.

So.

You go in and buy a product, they have to order it from a distributor, who has to get it from a company ( who is already charging your arm and leg.)

Add into the fact about postage... taxes.... price of the overhead for the store.... etc.etc.etc.


Its a wonder that they can keep the door open.

I was always curious as to that "The Distributor doesn't have it in stock..." angle. Alliance is one I know of, there are a few others, but these guys are pretty much the leash hold on your FLGS.

Guess that my flgs is doing alright then. Its about the same size as a cottage, but is right next to the train station, sells everything at a 10-15% discount, has GW, MTG, Mantic, Dystopian Wars and Warmachine/Hordes stacked to the ceilings (not joking), as well as a tonne of Boardgames. They still have room to squeeze in two tables for gaming, and the guys are the best staff I have ever talked to. Seriously, the manager is cool, one of the guys is a metalhead (automatically on my friend's list), and even the ginger guy is cool *ducks hail of antigingerist hate*

 Grot 6 wrote:


I was always curious as to that "The Distributor doesn't have it in stock..." angle. Alliance is one I know of, there are a few others, but these guys are pretty much the leash hold on your FLGS.

Having a couple of friends who owned a game store for a while this was a very real thing. They gave priority to larger stores. So very often the smaller retailers got shafted with not getting the inventory that they wanted.

And on the subject of MTG one of those same guys said it best.

"Magic is like pull tabs for kids. Sometimes you get junk, sometimes you get a card that is worth over fifty bucks."

 Grot 6 wrote:
I think it is because of the distribution.

They as well have to cut into the profits, thus- your paying for a product that is being fought over like a couple of dogs fighting over the same meat.

So.

You go in and buy a product, they have to order it from a distributor, who has to get it from a company ( who is already charging your arm and leg.)

Add into the fact about postage... taxes.... price of the overhead for the store.... etc.etc.etc.


Its a wonder that they can keep the door open.

I was always curious as to that "The Distributor doesn't have it in stock..." angle. Alliance is one I know of, there are a few others, but these guys are pretty much the leash hold on your FLGS.

From what I understand, at least here in the USA, is that GW stock carriers usually order directly from GW itself.

The main FLGS I go to is incredibly popular, with few people doing as you all do in regards to orders. The store still has GW stock from probably when it first opened, but they get in a little bit of every new release. Any and all games are able to be played, with major games getting a night where they get played in the store by many people. I guess I'm lucky that I have a great store within a short drive away. I also have a GW near me, but I'd rather not talk about that store...

 Redbeard wrote:
Most GW stores around here seem to suffer the same problem. I refuse to order anything in a store. If the store cannot be bothered to stock things that I might want to buy, they don't get my impulse purchases. It's not much of an impulse buy if I have to wait a week for it to be delivered.

I tend to agree if a business doesn't bother to have a good stock level why should I order something, wait for it to get to the store, and then pay gas to drive to the store and then back to my house? I could just order it online at a discount and not worry about all the other bs (and probably get my item faster......)

brettz123 wrote:

 Redbeard wrote:
Most GW stores around here seem to suffer the same problem. I refuse to order anything in a store. If the store cannot be bothered to stock things that I might want to buy, they don't get my impulse purchases. It's not much of an impulse buy if I have to wait a week for it to be delivered.

I tend to agree if a business doesn't bother to have a good stock level why should I order something, wait for it to get to the store, and then pay gas to drive to the store and then back to my house? I could just order it online at a discount and not worry about all the other bs (and probably get my item faster......)

When a brick and mortar doesn't have what I'm interested in, do I automatically go home and order online? Well, it depends.

1. Does this store generally carry things that I want, and they just so happen not to have an obscure model like Shrike riding a bike with a thunder hammer? (I made that up) or something very particular. Or is it something like a Land Raider, and I've never seen him have a LR in his store before. That's lazy imo, and more or less turns me off to the store in earning my business.
2. Does the store owner then tell me he'll give me a discount, or expect me to pay full MSRP and wait?
3. Basically I want to see some level of effort that the FLGS appreciates the hobby and hobbyists, having good stock levels is a reflection of this. I think that most posters on this thread are of this line of thinking as well.

The FLGS model is total different today than even 10 years ago. In a sense, i think it is even easier, but you have to remember that your FLGS is not a store, but a clubhouse for gamers.

I would have very thin stock of bulky physical products on the floor. There are way too many flavors of the month to keep inventory around. For example, one of my local stores got completely burned on Dreadfleet, and still have 50+ boxes sitting around unopened.

In addition, I would have a relatively small, low rent place with low overhead costs. Therefore, no flashy signs that eat up electricity, no huge TVs, not music even. I wouldn;t have a bunch of display racks either, because those are expensive and take up space that should be used for game tables. Just a couple soda machines, a pre-wrapped snack counter, and lot's of places to play.

You see, the money would not come form high risk/low margin products like GW models, FOW boxes, etc. It would come from food and low cost, high turnover CCG games, low inventory board games, and reselling previously used stuff. The idea is to get a lot of bodies in there playing games an dhaving fun, and then selling them immediate gratification products. Everything else would be order only.

You only need to sell 3,000 cans of soda a month, or 100 a day to pay overhead on the average size store front in my town.

I love a deal like everyone else, but I wouldn't mind spending a little more to offset the store owners costs if he kept a good selection on the shelf. The local hobby store is a great place to hang out and shoot the breeze when the proprietor is cool. All too often though, I find the owner or person working the desk is a real turd and feels they're doing ME a favor by having a store at all.

This isn't as common now as it was before the prevalency of internet hobby stores, but you still find these guys running little dusty holes-in-the-wall with no customer service or a personality for that matter.

I have very fond memories of friends gathering at the local game store that I don't think will ever be repeated. Those days are long gone unfortunately.

Thankfully, most of those folks I met years ago gather at my place a couple times a month. It's not quite the same though.

Edit: TOO not to... I hate that.

 Easy E wrote:
The FLGS model is total different today than even 10 years ago. In a sense, i think it is even easier, but you have to remember that your FLGS is not a store, but a clubhouse for gamers.

I would have very thin stock of bulky physical products on the floor. There are way too many flavors of the month to keep inventory around. For example, one of my local stores got completely burned on Dreadfleet, and still have 50+ boxes sitting around unopened.

In addition, I would have a relatively small, low rent place with low overhead costs. Therefore, no flashy signs that eat up electricity, no huge TVs, not music even. I wouldn;t have a bunch of display racks either, because those are expensive and take up space that should be used for game tables. Just a couple soda machines, a pre-wrapped snack counter, and lot's of places to play.

You see, the money would not come form high risk/low margin products like GW models, FOW boxes, etc. It would come from food and low cost, high turnover CCG games, low inventory board games, and reselling previously used stuff. The idea is to get a lot of bodies in there playing games an dhaving fun, and then selling them immediate gratification products. Everything else would be order only.

You only need to sell 3,000 cans of soda a month, or 100 a day to pay overhead on the average size store front in my town.

Actually Soda machines are really expensive, you are pinching pennies and losing dollars, display racks make the product known, for instance if I were to go into that FLGS and not see any GW products on display I would not bother asking if you had the product, since you want as much new blood as possible, meaning that displays are wanted and nice, now all you have to get is wire shelving from walmart for display cases.
As to the soda thing honestly just buy a small fridge and keep a little bit of each thing in it, if a thievery problem occurs you can just put the fridge behind the counter and have you or an employee grab the soda.

Good point about the firdge.

As for no GW, guess what... I wouldn't have them because they don't really make me money. Getting into GW is too much initial cost, with lower turnover product, with me having to do a lot of work building a "community".

No thanks. CCG's and board games are much easier right now.

 Easy E wrote:
Good point about the firdge.

As for no GW, guess what... I wouldn;t have them because they don't really make me money.

Well my point was that if I dont see that you have it I won't even think of asking for it, so if you only have CCGs on display than I wouldnt bother asking about RPGs or TTGs, and vice versa.


EDIT: So what I am trying to get at is that display cases will make me willing to try new games as well as impulse buy, and impulse buys are the lifeblood of nearly all stores.

 MisterMoon wrote:

brettz123 wrote:

 Redbeard wrote:
Most GW stores around here seem to suffer the same problem. I refuse to order anything in a store. If the store cannot be bothered to stock things that I might want to buy, they don't get my impulse purchases. It's not much of an impulse buy if I have to wait a week for it to be delivered.

I tend to agree if a business doesn't bother to have a good stock level why should I order something, wait for it to get to the store, and then pay gas to drive to the store and then back to my house? I could just order it online at a discount and not worry about all the other bs (and probably get my item faster......)

When a brick and mortar doesn't have what I'm interested in, do I automatically go home and order online? Well, it depends.

1. Does this store generally carry things that I want, and they just so happen not to have an obscure model like Shrike riding a bike with a thunder hammer? (I made that up) or something very particular. Or is it something like a Land Raider, and I've never seen him have a LR in his store before. That's lazy imo, and more or less turns me off to the store in earning my business.
2. Does the store owner then tell me he'll give me a discount, or expect me to pay full MSRP and wait?
3. Basically I want to see some level of effort that the FLGS appreciates the hobby and hobbyists, having good stock levels is a reflection of this. I think that most posters on this thread are of this line of thinking as well.

Good points I agree with you on those. It isn't so much that they don't have specifically what I want. There could be reasons for that. But if you have just a generally low level of stock I probably won't shop with you.

 Easy E wrote:
Good point about the firdge.

As for no GW, guess what... I wouldn't have them because they don't really make me money. Getting into GW is too much initial cost, with lower turnover product, with me having to do a lot of work building a "community".

No thanks. CCG's and board games are much easier right now.

huh? When we originally started carrying GW, it was $1,500. That's not a high cost. And it has an exceptional turnover. The community will pretty much build itself, unlike CCG players who require a lot of micro management or they will go elsewhere

Yeah CCG players are like dairy cattle... lol

I also wouldn't open up a gaming store if all I was doing was opening up a glorified snack bar. I'm not sure anyone does, and if a store is just running on cash from the Coke machine, that's a store on it's last leg...