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Eilif wrote:I asked the owner and he said they hoped to add more as the traffic grows, but I wonder if this will work.

It might work, but it's not a good idea. There's no guarantee that people who become regulars are interested in CCGs, and the CCG players that walk in right now and don't find them likely won't be back. Unless, of course, he's done his research and there's little interest in CCGs in the area.

However, bare wall space is never a good look for any shop. It gives the impression of the shop winding down and going out of business. A healthy game store will have well stocked shelves.

All of a sudden, atleast in this regard, I feel lucky to play in a relatively large GW store that has everything stocked all the time. (except, apparently, movement trays!)

My FLGS has a huge online store for baseball cards while he uses the physical store to sell comic books and every CCG under the sun.

He's almost non-reliant on GW sales but has a decent amount of stock on hand, and regularly orders the new releases.

When I started going to his shop there were no 40k events of any kind. A buddy and I started playing in his store and we now have a group of thirty-six people who are in and out of his store on the weekends.

Ordered the steel legion commissar and colonel Schaeffer through my FLGS. Wait a couple of weeks, hear nothing. 4 months later, "hey, we got those guys in that you ordered."

Literally my only complaint I've ever had with them. They've been great about everything else, and usually have stuff stocked (except basic guardsmen and ork boys for some reason) and everything else I've ordered comes in fairly soon. I ordered some meltaguns through him and they were there right on the 2 week mark like they were supposed to be. I don't know if those 2 guys had been lost in the post or what, but that was a really wierd experience.

MrMoustaffa wrote:Ordered the steel legion commissar and colonel Schaeffer through my FLGS. Wait a couple of weeks, hear nothing. 4 months later, "hey, we got those guys in that you ordered."

I had an experience like that. I ordered some bases from Iron Halo through them, and it took about 3 months to get them, due to a delay in putting my order in and Iron Halo forgetting to send my order. Eventually, I went in to check, and the owner said 'Didn't you find them in your letter box? I personally drove out there and hand delivered them.' I hadn't checked my letterbox in a couple of days, so when I got home I checked, and there they were with a nice apology.

That alone kept my business at the store.

We HAD a couple decent FLGS, but in the past 3-4 years they've been dropping like flies. Now there's just one grumpy guy sitting in a shop with bare GW racks, griping about GW's policies. That's pretty much it for about a 50 mile radius. There's an actual GW store 80ish miles away, but I miss the atmosphere you got in a GOOD FLGS. I find it much more enjoyable to talk to an independent seller rather than someone actually paid by GW.

So I guess I'm not the only one. This is really sorta sad. One thing I've picked up on is that you got to have some other sort of cash cow in the store. MTG work well, or it can even be RC airplanes. Comics are on the way out, but that used to work well.

There is a balance to having fully stocked shelves of everything that everyone could want vs. going broke on having too much inventory that doesn't move very often. If you don't have a good turn-over rate your going to go broke fast.

It comes down to having the knowledge and a good POS (point of sale) system that can give you the data on what is selling at your store.

It also comes down to knowing your customer base and knowing what they are working on and what is likely coming down the road.

I am the perfect example of the customer above. My FLGS owner knew I was contemplating starting WM/H and as I started with the Khador box set, he started making suggestions of what to look for, then low and behold the next week most of it was on the shelve for me to happen upon....

Smaller FLGS can't stock everything all the time.However they should have a good solid base for every army and a fair amount of the more popular items that people would want on impulse.

Well said Darefsky.

The successful game shops understand their customs and build a community around themselves.

The bad ones just go broke.

I would love to patronize my FLGS, but they seem to actively discourage me from giving them money. It's a small store, without a ton of space for stock and tables, and I get that, but God forbid you want something that they don't have at that moment. Once, I tried to order some Infinity figures, which they assured me they could get. When I came back a week later, they finally remembered to place the order. A week later, the wrong figure was waiting for me. The following week, the owner told me that it was impossible to get Infinity in the U.S. After crap like that, I don't give them my business.

 Tigerone wrote:
War Eagle!

Roll Tide!

someone had to say it.

 Piston Honda wrote:

 Tigerone wrote:
War Eagle!

Roll Tide!

someone had to say it.

War Damn Eagle!


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 Guildsman wrote:
I would love to patronize my FLGS, but they seem to actively discourage me from giving them money. It's a small store, without a ton of space for stock and tables, and I get that, but God forbid you want something that they don't have at that moment. Once, I tried to order some Infinity figures, which they assured me they could get. When I came back a week later, they finally remembered to place the order. A week later, the wrong figure was waiting for me. The following week, the owner told me that it was impossible to get Infinity in the U.S. After crap like that, I don't give them my business.

This is what kills me: BS excuses from the socially awkward flgs store owner. So many are getting like this.

 Apostle Pat wrote:
.......physical store to sell comic books and every CCG under the sun.

He's almost non-reliant on GW sales but has a decent amount of stock on hand, and regularly orders the new releases.

When I started going to his shop there were no 40k events of any kind. A buddy and I started playing in his store and we now have a group of thirty-six people who are in and out of his store on the weekends.

That quite frankly is what a FLGS generally needs to do to survive, and frankly I am fine with it. Many warhammer purchases are just buy a few and you are set for life on that unit, wherein mtg has editions that come and go keeping people buying.

 Wardragoon wrote:

 Apostle Pat wrote:
.......physical store to sell comic books and every CCG under the sun.

He's almost non-reliant on GW sales but has a decent amount of stock on hand, and regularly orders the new releases.

When I started going to his shop there were no 40k events of any kind. A buddy and I started playing in his store and we now have a group of thirty-six people who are in and out of his store on the weekends.

That quite frankly is what a FLGS generally needs to do to survive, and frankly I am fine with it. Many warhammer purchases are just buy a few and you are set for life on that unit, wherein mtg has editions that come and go keeping people buying.

Not only am I fine with this concept, I don't think there's any other way to do it. You simply can't run a store with only wall to wall GW miniatures, hell, you can't run a store with just table top miniatures from all major games. You need a variety of multiple gaming concepts in store. MTG is usually an easy cash cow with frequent new lines of cards, and decent margins. Board games do decent. Some stores even do RC planes and cars as a full range hobby store. HobbyTown USA comes to mind, as they are each locally owned, with some having a vibrant GW following.

While I understand why a retailer might be hesitant to stock what might not sell, it still kind of sucks to come back week after week seeing the same things (I guess because they aren't selling, huh? FULL CIRCLE!)

Actually the store I go to is this hybrid store that's deals in music (new/used), videogames (new/used), DVDs/BD/VHS (new/used), Comic books (new/used), and Table-top gaming stuff (new/used). And they seem to have a bigger focus on their music and movie part so the Table-top stuff (aside from MtG... go figure) doesn't get as much love. But it isn't all bad. Because they don't sell some items, they tend to be some 'vintage' stuff. For example they have a lot of old editions of some GW products like the old Carnifex with the weird looking smile or the old Wartrukk that was much smaller than the one they have now... I even came across an old Ulrick the Slayer blister.

It's a vicious circle as a small store to stock everything, especially since most stores do more than one line. I try to carry about 10 different game systems myself and every week requIres a decision on what to spend my limited resources on. Sometimes, you just have to place orders for people since you can't guess what everybody wants all the time. The other factors as well is that a lot of time, people want direct models, which can only be ordered specifically as they are prohibitive to ord in bulk.
One other factor I have found is that when my orders arrive on Friday, it is sold out by the end of the weekend, so on Monday or Tuesday, if you want something, it has to be ordered. Most of the time that's only a 3 day wait, and the gaming club gets a discount so I can't see it being anissue

 MisterMoon wrote:
Lately I've noticed a lot of FLGS with almost no merchandise, and/or hardly stocked. Maybe they'll have some of the newest releases, but nothing extensive. This has also bore witness to something very funny that I hear often; when they tell me they can order something for me that they don't have in stock, like it's 1990 and I can't go home and do that myself, and likely get it quicker and cheaper.

Seriously, I know it sucks, but if you have a store, you got to carry merchandise. Otherwise it's almost like trying to have your cake and eat it too. I'm all about helping the little guy, but you got to have it on your shelf for me to help you. That's me meeting you halfway.

A store can't sell what they don't have. The linkage between lack of stock and going out of business is a strong one.


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 MisterMoon wrote:
So I guess I'm not the only one. This is really sorta sad. One thing I've picked up on is that you got to have some other sort of cash cow in the store. MTG work well, or it can even be RC airplanes. Comics are on the way out, but that used to work well.

Comics are on the way out? Who made that pronouncement of doom ?

Selling comics, and graphic novels, is not an easy thing to get into. It's not a sideline like getting in another paint rack or some model rockets. To do it right takes a lot of work and research. Very different animal from games, with different sales patterns.

Comics are one of my major 'cash cows'. I sell more comics than I do games. And my stores are pretty far above the average store in game sales. Comics and Games together can give a store a very solid sales base. But, it's like having two jobs, since the store needs to do both correctly, neither being a sideline.

 djphranq wrote:
While I understand why a retailer might be hesitant to stock what might not sell, it still kind of sucks to come back week after week seeing the same things (I guess because they aren't selling, huh? FULL CIRCLE!)

Actually the store I go to is this hybrid store that's deals in music (new/used), videogames (new/used), DVDs/BD/VHS (new/used), Comic books (new/used), and Table-top gaming stuff (new/used). And they seem to have a bigger focus on their music and movie part so the Table-top stuff (aside from MtG... go figure) doesn't get as much love. But it isn't all bad. Because they don't sell some items, they tend to be some 'vintage' stuff. For example they have a lot of old editions of some GW products like the old Carnifex with the weird looking smile or the old Wartrukk that was much smaller than the one they have now... I even came across an old Ulrick the Slayer blister.

I picked up a skull pass set a couple of months ago for its starting price when released, saying that they have a reasonable stock and have the new demon stuff, also still have dreadfleet.




I have no real FLGS near me sadly the nearest GW is a train journey away, anyone want to set up a FLGS in West Sussex, UK, I will work for free if you do lol

I have to agree with alot of these post...I hit my breaking point this past weekend. I moved to the area just over a year ago, I have not played a game in all that time. I have been keeping busy trding and painting etc. As I enjoy the total hobby this really didnt boher me much. We basically have 2 game stores here. Now back track a minute to Storm of Chaos, I pre-ordered $450 worth of it from LGS #1, it came in, I was happy and then they rang it up at full MSRP!! Now this was my own fault as I was used to how my old store treated me on large pre-orders..So I paid it happy to support a brick and mortar. So finally yesterday, I finally got a chance to play a game of malifaux with one of new found comrades...we started playing at 1'ish....at 3:30 the store manager (its all family owned and operated) said "hey start cleaning up we are closing the gaming room in 15 minutes." I said "3:45pm on a saturday!!??" he got kind of snotty about how they stay open till 6pm one saturday a month blah blah blah.. oh by theway, they charge $2.00 to get into the table room
and play, they say its donated to the local animal shelter, if it is then great, but I cant verify that.

Anyway this cemented the feeling that I had about this store, in that they are simply a retail store selling models, not a hobby store. This is the problem I think that some people are experienceing..a retail store just sells you product, usually at full MSRP and does little to nothing to support, grow or encourage the actualy hobby. While a hobby store may not have as much, but actually runs events, has a passion for the games it sells etc etc. So on my way out I went I stated that as a chaos player I was really excited about the new releases and planned on dropping at least $500ish (including two starter boxes) and what kind of discount I could get. They said none, because if they offer it to me they have to offer it to everyone (oh the humanity)...they said we really value your business..my reply was "no you dont...you want my money, but you dont value my business...you should learn the difference."

My New FLGS #2 has little in stock but can order me what I want...offered me 20% off without batting an eye with 50% down (no problem here)....

My FLGS is an example of this. They stock a little of a wide range of games, so as to be absolutely useless to beginners and veterans alike. I think the only GW Battleforce and Codex they have is the Space Marine stuff, and woe betide you if you're wanting to get Wood Elves.
... there are two reasons. One, is that they don't have enough capital. The store doesn't have enough stock to attract or retain customers.
The second is extremely confusing: the owners are not gamers, and never have been. They have no product knowledge, or investment or even real excitement about their hobby. I don't know who told them that a games store would be a good idea.
They also go with the idea 'we don't have what you want, but we can order it', which may have been good back in the days before electricity and you were afraid to send your sixpence in the mail, but these days it is far easier, quicker and cheaper to order online and get delivered to my door.

 mikhaila wrote:

 MisterMoon wrote:
Lately I've noticed a lot of FLGS with almost no merchandise, and/or hardly stocked. Maybe they'll have some of the newest releases, but nothing extensive. This has also bore witness to something very funny that I hear often; when they tell me they can order something for me that they don't have in stock, like it's 1990 and I can't go home and do that myself, and likely get it quicker and cheaper.

Seriously, I know it sucks, but if you have a store, you got to carry merchandise. Otherwise it's almost like trying to have your cake and eat it too. I'm all about helping the little guy, but you got to have it on your shelf for me to help you. That's me meeting you halfway.

A store can't sell what they don't have. The linkage between lack of stock and going out of business is a strong one.


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 MisterMoon wrote:
So I guess I'm not the only one. This is really sorta sad. One thing I've picked up on is that you got to have some other sort of cash cow in the store. MTG work well, or it can even be RC airplanes. Comics are on the way out, but that used to work well.

Comics are on the way out? Who made that pronouncement of doom ?

Selling comics, and graphic novels, is not an easy thing to get into. It's not a sideline like getting in another paint rack or some model rockets. To do it right takes a lot of work and research. Very different animal from games, with different sales patterns.

Comics are one of my major 'cash cows'. I sell more comics than I do games. And my stores are pretty far above the average store in game sales. Comics and Games together can give a store a very solid sales base. But, it's like having two jobs, since the store needs to do both correctly, neither being a sideline.

@Mister Moon:
I setup an account with GW to sell their product at their lowest level 3 months ago. This is probably the level that the store you are talking about is at. My rep at GW would actively discourage me from ordering anything other than their "recommended" list and special orders until I got a chance to explain my business model to him.

He needed to know that:
1.) Yes, I know what I'm doing and I have a plan of growth. (This is not always the case with game retailers)
2.) I appreciate his suggestions, but it's my business and I am willing to take on more risk than is normal.
3.) Most importantly, I have a business model that is insulated against downturns in gaming, so yes they will always get paid.

To be honest with GW telling retailers not to stock full line added to the fact that CCG sales blow miniature sales out of the water in most stores, I can understand why the store you are talking about doesn't carry more models.

It's not how I do business, but I understand it.

@Mikhaila:
I think a lot of people are under the assumption that comics are in their death throes. With the rising popularity of web comics and the always amusing antics of the Big 2, people are thinking/being told that we are the last generation that will have comic books. What they don't see/hear about is the people walking in shops all over the country walking out with their books. Comics aren't a "cash cow" for me, my margins are almost as bad as dealing with Diamond, but I know people who are doing very well with them. I have an independent bookstore that sells games and you are absolutely right. In order to make money with them, you cannot treat games or comics as a sideline. Games take up more of my time than books, but only occupy 25% of my space (don't worry the margins make it worth it).

My store has barely any new Warmachine/Hordes merchandise aside the odd few new kits per month. I see stuff on the wall dating back to MK1 it's been there so long and when I do order something it takes several weeks for it to come in. Now I either just go to Warstore or order at home if I don't fancy a 50min drive.

Men at Arms has a modestly stocked GW section; during off season the walls get bare of product. I hardly get out to Brothers Grimm thanks to my job.

I just drive to the Warstore whenever I need something more expansive than GW and Mantic, which is what Jim stocks at his store.

 MisterMoon wrote:
Also if a store dropped GW, I'd just find somewhere else to game, but I see stuff moving off the shelf regularly at these FLGS, so it's selling fine.

The specific FLGS I am referring to is primarily a comic book store where I play MTG weekly. The store manager and I talk a fair amount and GW has come up from time to time, making fun of their laughable marketing and business model. GW basically gave them some inventory to try to get back in the store. The FLGS has had it one the shelf for 9 months and maybe sold 5% of the items. Table top gaming is not a big draw, and thus it is understandable that they don't draw.

The other two stores in the area that I could play at have other issues. One is infested with kids, the other is crammed and chaotic, neither have what I would consider "stocked' levels of models and I would guess based on discussions with thewarstore, it has to do with finecaste and metal models being direct only.

One of my local stores has devoted most of its space to providing gaming areas and tables and shelves of terrain and reference books to players, the only stuff they sell is behind the counter at the front, and its just basic stuff like dice, measuring tools, and CCG starter and blister packs, and maybe a few rulebooks and codexes. Oh, and snacks and drinks.
They don't stock any miniatures, but they do orders.
I guess they mostly try to run it as a venue for gaming, with regular events of all sorts (Magic the Gathering is on pretty much every day) and they stay open til like 10pm every night. I guess they probably pick up a lot of orders from the gamers who play there?

You know, after reading this thread, i'd swear you guys all all living in my area.

My local store has gaming events almost all week, MTG, Roleplaying, Wargaming, and such, yet the only new stuff they get in is the magic cards, and they seem to change every few months anyway. They say that Magic is their main money maker, along with comics, but i'm surpised, boosters are abot 7.50 and the monthly starters about 25, yet us warhammer players go in willing to drop hundreds of dollars at once and regulary ask about new GW products are the guys getting the cold shoulder.

Hell, my flat mate ordered in some Dystopia Wars stuff and after waiting a month for the stuff to arrived is still waiting for someone to price up the damn things so he can buy them.

 Lord Harrab wrote:
You know, after reading this thread, i'd swear you guys all all living in my area.

My local store has gaming events almost all week, MTG, Roleplaying, Wargaming, and such, yet the only new stuff they get in is the magic cards, and they seem to change every few months anyway. They say that Magic is their main money maker, along with comics, but i'm surpised, boosters are abot 7.50 and the monthly starters about 25, yet us warhammer players go in willing to drop hundreds of dollars at once and regulary ask about new GW products are the guys getting the cold shoulder.

Hell, my flat mate ordered in some Dystopia Wars stuff and after waiting a month for the stuff to arrived is still waiting for someone to price up the damn things so he can buy them.

Holy cow those are expensive boosters.

He's Australian I think.

 Lord Harrab wrote:
They say that Magic is their main money maker, along with comics, but i'm surpised, boosters are abot 7.50 and the monthly starters about 25, yet us warhammer players go in willing to drop hundreds of dollars at once and regulary ask about new GW products are the guys getting the cold shoulder.

You possibly underestimate just how many of those boosters they sell every time a new set is released.

MtG is a huge money spinner for a store that knows what it's doing. When a new set drops, people don't just buy a few boosters, they buy entire cases. Many of the tournament types involve the participants buying boosters or starters to use for that event... And then add in singles sales, and the amount of cash changing hands for competitive decks very quickly adds up.


All for much less shelf space, (and much less having to deal with Games Workshop) than selling an equivalent dollar value in 40K stuff.



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 Sidstyler wrote:
He's Australian I think.

The flag with the red stars is New Zealand

Not to mention that with M:tG, the cards rotate out meaning players will have buy boosters/ boxes and singles again and again while in wargaming, usually your Tac Marine will still be a Tac marine 10 years from now and your buying stops when you've completed your army.