So I've been having a series of panic/anxiety attacks recently, mostly focused on the fact that I am quickly growing older and that shortly, before I even think about it I will die. Obviously this is a whole bunch of fun, but it's something we all have to face/deal with.
Yeah it's scary but I get mad more than im scared.
My problem is I'll be deployed to Afghanistan within next year. I could possibly gotten HIV from that fething skank that gave me the clap. I have a bunch of reason to be afraid. But there's one thing I'm not gonna fething do and that's beg to god when I die. I ain't gonna fething beg. Even if I get to heaven and all I have to do is beg to get in I'm not going to do it. I'll tell god to go feth himself.
With cold detachement. The state of death is not a problem, but dying is. Considering it's inevitable, I want the most interesting death possible. I'm more scared about dying a pathetic death than actually being dead.
Of course, I'd like to accumulate the most interesting experiences possible before that happens.
My granny had a brain tumour; they cut it out and she survived. Both knees had ground away all the cartilage and she now has two fake ones. Now she's having heart failure and might get a pace maker. If I get to her age, I plan to hold as long as I can as well. Endure to the very end.
I won't have to, Thanks to denial, I'll live forever.
Death is just one of those things that you can't control, so there's no point in getting worked up over it. I used to stress out about it when I was in middle school, until my dad had a talk with me.
He said, "Iur, You're going to waste your whole life worrying over nothing if you stress out about things out of your control. Someone could drive a car into our house right now and kill us, but there's nothing we can do about that. It's best to just enjoy life."
And the past 9-10 years after that, when I just accepted the fact that I could die at any time, for no good reason, have been more or less pretty great. I don't worry about what I can't control, and I do what I love. I eat relatively healthy and do some light exercise when I remember, make sure I follow all the traffic rules when I'm driving (well that's more of a "I don't want my insurance rates to go up" than a "I don't want to die In a car wreck" ).
The death of family and friends is worse than dying yourself. Especially when one of your friends who used to ride bikes with you and play video games and run is now on a hospital bed. I'd see him in the hallways at school in his wheelchair being pushed around by his mother who whenever she smiled you could always tell was fake.
The fethed up part about it was that poor bastard tried to fit in. Skater shoes dyed hair. Jesus fething Christ imagine being that kids mother changing him everyday for school. He used to run jump and laugh now he was so full of convulsions that he can't even speak right.
I ask myself what someone could've done to deserve that. What someone could have possibly done in a previous lifetime to deserve such a horrible fate. God. Yeah right.
I guess god was there when my moms boyfriend jumped off a cliff in front of my mom and brother. God. Yeah right.
Jihadin wrote:Its the transition that scares everybody
No matter what station you hold in life and what you do with it, we're all heading to the same place.
Ma55ter_fett wrote:Chocolate ice cream mostly.
I can get behind this plan.
Kovnik, what to you is the state of death? Is there a point to carrying all those experiences with you beyond being able to die with a life well lived?
More in general, what is a life well lived any way?
It is the natural consequence of birth. I don't worry about it at all. How I face it in the end will depend on the situation I find myself in at that moment.
Kovnik, what to you is the state of death? Is there a point to carrying all those experiences with you beyond being able to die with a life well lived?
I think the healthiest attitude is to assume it's the great big void. Not because it's necessarily true, because honestly I think everyone would like it better if there was something else afterward, it's normal to keep that hope in the background of your thoughts. But you shouldn't act as if it's knowledge. As for the point... Well, it's so general to the point where it almost becomes trite, but I think human life is an art. We share every other drive with animals, except the one that make us search for a meaning in our lives, so for me I think it's about taking the state of affairs (in the most general sense possible) of humankind, and try to insert more aesthetism (again, in the most general sense possible) and refinement in it. Even the life of someone who will have done nothing else but provide better conditions to his children than those he has received will have a positive meaning.
More in general, what is a life well lived any way?
The classic, if your interested in classics, for this question is the 1st book of the Nicomaquean Ethics of Aristotle. It's a fairly easy read, if you make allowances for the way ancient greeks wrote. It's a bit archaic, simplistic and paternalist, the jist of it being that happiness is the state a prosperous, intelligent and active man who can provide for his family and friends. You can adapt for the 21st century fairly easily.
Personnaly, I think it's about living a morally sound and active life filled with obtainable objectives.
My problem is I'll be deployed to Afghanistan within next year. I could possibly gotten HIV from that fething skank that gave me the clap. I have a bunch of reason to be afraid. But there's one thing I'm not gonna fething do and that's beg to god when I die. I ain't gonna fething beg. Even if I get to heaven and all I have to do is beg to get in I'm not going to do it. I'll tell god to go feth himself.
Your blood work on pre deployment will tell you. First deployment?
I'm 53 and I don't worry one bit about my death and when it's coming. When it's your time to go there's nothing you or anyone else can do about it so enjoy the time here on Earth while you can.
Herger the Joyous said it best in the movie 13th Warrior - "The All-Father wove the skein of your life a long time ago. Go and hide in a hole if you wish, but you won't live one instant longer. Your fate is fixed. Fear profits a man nothing."
I've come close to buying the big one a number of times in my life and I've come to learn that whether you believe in God and Heaven or not, whether you want to or not, one day you're going tits up.
The main thing is not to concentrate and worry so much about dying, but live as amazing a life as you can, do the most good you can, and when it looks like your time has come, you'll have no regrets or fears and maybe be able to go out laughing.
At least, this is what I've learned from my brushes.
Emotional detachment towards the consequences of my actions.
Being Bhuddist and consequently believing that death is simply a change of physical state (like Ice melting, or water boiling) helps.
First up, I'm sorry to hear about your anxiety attacks.
KalashnikovMarine wrote:How do you face your mortality?
I face it with stoic certainty.
If you're looking for some peace of mind, there are two quotes from the Hagakure that I've always been a fan of. And I don't mean to go all Seagal here, (ie. a white guy quoting Zen writings) but I've spent a long time following a personal philosophy that is an amalgamation of Yamamoto, Nietzsche & Hobbes.
"This is the substance of the Way of the Samurai: if by setting one's heart right every morning and evening, one is able to live as though his body were already dead, he gains freedom in the Way.
his whole life will be without blame, and he will succeed in his calling."
and
“In the Kamigata area, they have a sort of tiered lunchbox they use for a single day when flower viewing. Upon returning, they throw them away, trampling them underfoot. The end is important in all things.”
So to answer your question:
I will face it very well. All things are transitory.
My problem is I'll be deployed to Afghanistan within next year. I could possibly gotten HIV from that fething skank that gave me the clap. I have a bunch of reason to be afraid. But there's one thing I'm not gonna fething do and that's beg to god when I die. I ain't gonna fething beg. Even if I get to heaven and all I have to do is beg to get in I'm not going to do it. I'll tell god to go feth himself.
Your blood work on pre deployment will tell you. First deployment?
It will be. I'm going through rasp (it replaced rip) and every guy at 3rd rngr bat said when I get to my unit I'm basically guareented a deployment within the year.
Even if I fail (which I assure you I won't) I'll be put in the 82nd and they're deploying with the 25th ID in January. So yeah I'm going to afghanistan.
I'm not worried about death because when it happens I won't know about it;
but I do worry about a painful transition and if that does occur, and since Euthanasia is illegal here, I am concerned about that eventuality.
But that scenario is unlikely so I don't worry about it.
Some nights I have a panic attack thinking about the vastness of eternity and how boring it could be. I made myself bleed with my fingernails over the issue. But for the past few years I've started looking forward to death and whatever may follow. I'm almost kind of excited. In the mean time, I've got stuff to do.
My problem is I'll be deployed to Afghanistan within next year. I could possibly gotten HIV from that fething skank that gave me the clap. I have a bunch of reason to be afraid. But there's one thing I'm not gonna fething do and that's beg to god when I die. I ain't gonna fething beg. Even if I get to heaven and all I have to do is beg to get in I'm not going to do it. I'll tell god to go feth himself.
THIS
Zathras wrote:
Herger the Joyous said it best in the movie 13th Warrior - "The All-Father wove the skein of your life a long time ago. Go and hide in a hole if you wish, but you won't live one instant longer. Your fate is fixed. Fear profits a man nothing."
To the OP and Ifepy. I deal with death with faith. I don't run around on dakka attacking every godless socialist here so it may not be obvious but I'm very religious. A group of my joes asked me once why I didn't bother to duck and cover at the mortar siren or for direct fire and the answer was fairly simple: when it's my time it's my time. Confederate LTG T.J. Jackson said it best.
My religious belief teaches me to feel as safe in battle as in bed. God has fixed the time for my death. I do not concern myself about that, but to always be ready, no matter when it may overtake me.
As a consequence I can focus on the task at hand instead of mortality. If you really want to deal with death: get your will and living will in order. Update your life insurance and make sure that it takes care of what and who you want it too. If it does not buy supplemental insurance. Having your worldly affairs in order puts you to bed a lot easier.
Personally, I think about it fairly often, I have no fear towards the issue, except that when the trumpets sound, I have a clear conscience, no regrets and that my death is a quick clean one, not tortured to death, definately not suffocating (my greatest fear) and most of all, PLEASE GOD, DON'T MAKE ME DIE ON THE TOILET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
P.S Have you guys noticed how many metaphors have been used in this thread?
I have no intention of dying...my friends and I intend to combine genetic engineering with nanotechnology to permanently halt aging and be immune to all disease...then we try and figure to establish a real-time communication link with a supercomputer with sufficient memory and processing power to store the entire consciousness of several people. At the instant of death, our consciousness will be uploaded through the supercomputer into prepared clone bodies.
Its not like you can remember being in your dads testicles and it really really sucked so you were relieved when you were lucky enough to be born.
I was dead for ages before I was born and I never suffered the lightest inconvenience from it, death holds no fear for me, in fact, the older I get the more I realise I will probably be pretty happy when it comes.
I really don't understand the terror of a dreamless sleep, I think a part of me would welcome it, not having to deal with all of the donkey-caves anymore will be a big plus point as far as I'm concerned!
KalashnikovMarine wrote: So I've been having a series of panic/anxiety attacks recently, mostly focused on the fact that I am quickly growing older and that shortly, before I even think about it I will die. Obviously this is a whole bunch of fun, but it's something we all have to face/deal with.
How do you face your mortality?
wow, nice to see I wasnt the only one XD
I stoped thinking about it after watching soul eater, long story short there was a line in there which said that the only thing scary about death is what we immagine there to be afterwards, if you stop immagining whats going to happen you wont become scared. and for me, that worked :3 as soon as you rember that one day you will die, think of something else rather than dwelling on the subject
KalashnikovMarine wrote: So I've been having a series of panic/anxiety attacks recently, mostly focused on the fact that I am quickly growing older and that shortly, before I even think about it I will die. Obviously this is a whole bunch of fun, but it's something we all have to face/deal with.
How do you face your mortality?
wow, nice to see I wasnt the only one XD
I stoped thinking about it after watching soul eater, long story short there was a line in there which said that the only thing scary about death is what we immagine there to be afterwards, if you stop immagining whats going to happen you wont become scared. and for me, that worked :3 as soon as you rember that one day you will die, think of something else rather than dwelling on the subject
For me and friends we cope by conceptualizing ways to avoid it...the concepts are sound, though it would take decades and lots of work to realize.
Just out of interest, have any of you actually seen someone die? Believe me, invariably it ain't pretty. All this talk of welcoming death, all this bullgak of 'I would welcome it with open arms' and 'going peacefully', it's gak, all of it.....
I sit with people as they are dying almost three times a month, and you what? I have never in 8 years of doing my current job, never, seen anyone go peacefully. Before anyone says 'yeah, but how the hell do you know?!', I work in palliative care. That is a nice way of saying end of life care. And it's hard.
Yeah, you do get somewhat desensitised to the whole thing. But making that phone call is never easy. And facing the family of the deceased is easily the hardest thing you will ever do. Especially if it's a youngster......
And when you've been alive long enough to get used to it, stopping breathing is awful. I've seen the fear in people's eyes when the time comes, no matter how blasé they were about dying in the months leading up to the event. It's still fething scary.
But even after all this, I wouldn't say it scares me. When the time comes I will try my damnedest to just let it come. Don't fight it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just out of interest, have any of you actually seen someone die? Believe me, invariably it ain't pretty. All this talk of welcoming death, all this bullgak of 'I would welcome it with open arms' and 'going peacefully', it's gak, all of it.....
I sit with people as they are dying almost three times a month, and you what? I have never in 8 years of doing my current job, never, seen anyone go peacefully. Before anyone says 'yeah, but how the hell do you know?!', I work in palliative care. That is a nice way of saying end of life care. And it's hard.
Yeah, you do get somewhat desensitised to the whole thing. But making that phone call is never easy. And facing the family of the deceased is easily the hardest thing you will ever do. Especially if it's a youngster......
And when you've been alive long enough to get used to it, stopping breathing is awful. I've seen the fear in people's eyes when the time comes, no matter how blasé they were about dying in the months leading up to the event. It's still fething scary.
But even after all this, I wouldn't say it scares me. When the time comes I will try my damnedest to just let it come. Don't fight it.
I have yet to see someone die, but I know I will one day, what with my new job and eventual nursing degree I hope to do. Or with my volunteer work, I have already seen a heart attack but have yet to see or do CPR. I am of the opinion that I want to see it sooner rather than later just so I can get it over with.
As for me, I think about death as it is only natural, I make jokes about how I want to go etc but it will happen when it happens and how it is meant to happen. Till then live life.
It's something I try not to dwell on. The best thing you can do I'd guess is just accept that it is inevitable. Earlier this month I took a week to visit my grandfather who was in hospice care. It was the closest I'd ever been to death, and I spent a lot of time thinking about it.
By the time I had arrived, my grandfather had accepted his situation, he was terminal, he had no more then a couple weeks to live (really, he had less then a week). He spent what concious time he had left enjoying the company of his friends and family. Remembering all he did with his life, and what a life that man had. By the time he moved to the point where he was no longer really aware of anything, I believe he was glad for it. He went into death knowing he lead a good life, he was surrounded by those who loved him, and the pain was finally about to end.
I guess when I think about death now, that's the situation I want to be in when it comes. I want to be able to look back on my life, and be proud of the things I did. I want my family and friends to be there with me. I think more then anything else, I just want to be ready for life to end. I don't want to be laying there regretting that I didn't do enough, didn't say things that I wanted to say. I want to be content knowing that my life wasn't wasted, and that I'm ready to face whatever may come next, even if it is just simply oblivion.
Jihadin wrote: Think the major "drawback" on death for a lot of people is. They're so use to this life and are not sure whats beyond.
Humans fear the unknown, we always have, and we always will, even if we have surpassed our ancestors who huddled around fires at night in fear of 'demons' beyond the circle of light. Death is inevitable...but that doesn't mean we shouldn't fight it.
Also you have ones who are use to being "opted" out as a daily thing for a life style (deployments). Cuts down on the fear factor. For all we know Death might like fried pickle slices and italian pizza. He might sit down with you to ease the "transition"
Jihadin wrote: Also you have ones who are use to being "opted" out as a daily thing for a life style (deployments). Cuts down on the fear factor. For all we know Death might like fried pickle slices and italian pizza. He might sit down with you to ease the "transition"
If we succeed in what we're planning to do...maybe after a few millennia (or whenever) and death arrives, maybe we'll just sit down and discuss what we've learned and experienced in our technologically-extended lifespan.
Believe me, invariably it ain't pretty. All this talk of welcoming death, all this bullgak of 'I would welcome it with open arms' and 'going peacefully', it's gak, all of it.....
I sit with people as they are dying almost three times a month, and you what? I have never in 8 years of doing my current job, never, seen anyone go peacefully. Before anyone says 'yeah, but how the hell do you know?!', I work in palliative care. That is a nice way of saying end of life care. And it's hard.
Yeah, you do get somewhat desensitised to the whole thing. But making that phone call is never easy. And facing the family of the deceased is easily the hardest thing you will ever do. Especially if it's a youngster......
And when you've been alive long enough to get used to it, stopping breathing is awful. I've seen the fear in people's eyes when the time comes, no matter how blasé they were about dying in the months leading up to the event. It's still fething scary.
But even after all this, I wouldn't say it scares me. When the time comes I will try my damnedest to just let it come. Don't fight it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just out of interest, have any of you actually seen someone die? Believe me, invariably it ain't pretty. All this talk of welcoming death, all this bullgak of 'I would welcome it with open arms' and 'going peacefully', it's gak, all of it.....
I sit with people as they are dying almost three times a month, and you what? I have never in 8 years of doing my current job, never, seen anyone go peacefully. Before anyone says 'yeah, but how the hell do you know?!', I work in palliative care. That is a nice way of saying end of life care. And it's hard.
Yeah, you do get somewhat desensitised to the whole thing. But making that phone call is never easy. And facing the family of the deceased is easily the hardest thing you will ever do. Especially if it's a youngster......
And when you've been alive long enough to get used to it, stopping breathing is awful. I've seen the fear in people's eyes when the time comes, no matter how blasé they were about dying in the months leading up to the event. It's still fething scary.
But even after all this, I wouldn't say it scares me. When the time comes I will try my damnedest to just let it come. Don't fight it.
My mother died on 5 Aug making that the most recent and raw. I saw my first made on the spot corpse when I was seven. A fork loader impaled a Bobcat operator at me Da's job site. I've seen literally hundreds of people from 5 to 90 die, and I counted bodies in the streets of Sadr City. If you work in pallative care then I thank you for performing essential end of life services but the kind of death you experience isn't the ugly, gritty death people actually fear. Sure they HAVE fear, but if you are in a pallative program you have time to come to grips. It's not being dragged out of your home and beaten to death in the streets, catching a (un)lucky stray bullet, or being pulped by a car.
There's a wide rift between the acceptance of an inevitable conclusion, and saying that you face it without fear.
I react to the concept with complete and utter terror, and it is the only thing in life that scares me.
It's the only logical emotional response... there's nothing wrong with this, in fact, I think if you haven't had this reaction where you literally want to scream "NO" at the very thought of not existing, then you haven't properly thought through what the concept actually means.
Conciousness is generated by the brain. When the brain dies, that's it. Nothing.
There is currently a long-running medical experiment that has taken place over several years to attempt to provide scientific proof of near-death experiences.
So far, there is zero evidence, despite thounsands of NDAs being recorded.
Death is death.
Religions all focus around the concept of an afterlife at their core because humans are extremely incapable of dealing with this simple fact at face value. We have to either brush it off with sweet words, religion or something else. Anything to avoid thinknig too hard about oblivion.
I do however cope with death and function on a daily basis by not thinking about the subject. A lot of my life is largely spent doing stuff to distract me from thinking about the topic. I have an extremely escapist mindset, which helps.
I've developed an odd fear of news articles about new humans species being found and proof of evolution as opposed to creation for our species. Not entirely sure why, I guess its because it represents the final nail in the coffin of any hope that there might be something after we die.
Anyway - to the OP - you're not the only one. I've been through the whole anxiety attacks thing too including a few crazy episodes of shouting "No!" at the top of my voice and punching a door (ouch!) simply because once you've properly (and I mean *really* properly) thought about the topic, that's all there is. Complete and utter mortal terror.
Most people don't think about the topic closely enough to reach that state. I do, you do. It varies from person to person. A lot of young people think "its just like going to sleep", and the actual realisation of the topic only feels real once a close family member dies (pets don't have quite the same impact) or they reach their late teens/ early 20s when this kind of really sharp cognitive thinking tends to emerge.
I react to the concept with complete and utter terror, and it is the only thing in life that scares me.
It's the only logical emotional response... there's nothing wrong with this, in fact, I think if you haven't had this reaction where you literally want to scream "NO" at the very thought of not existing, then you haven't properly thought through what the concept actually means.
Conciousness is generated by the brain. When the brain dies, that's it. Nothing.
There is currently a long-running medical experiment that has taken place over several years to attempt to provide scientific proof of near-death experiences.
So far, there is zero evidence, despite thounsands of NDAs being recorded.
Death is death.
Religions all focus around the concept of an afterlife at their core because humans are extremely incapable of dealing with this simple fact at face value. We have to either brush it off with sweet words, religion or something else. Anything to avoid thinknig too hard about oblivion.
I do however cope with death and function on a daily basis by not thinking about the subject. A lot of my life is largely spent doing stuff to distract me from thinking about the topic. I have an extremely escapist mindset, which helps.
I've developed an odd fear of news articles about new humans species being found and proof of evolution as opposed to creation for our species. Not entirely sure why, I guess its because it represents the final nail in the coffin of any hope that there might be something after we die.
Conciousness is generated by the brain. When the brain dies, that's it. Nothing.
Well, there is something a friend of mine came up with using the idea as a base: she said that since the brain functions by means of bio-electric impulses, its possible to cheat death with a real-time link to a supercomputer with sufficient memory and processing power to handle an entire Human consciousness - upon death, one's consciousness can then be uploaded to a prepared clone body.
@ Fafnir - Not sure what you mean? I imagine there's plenty of atheists that are terrified of death, and others that aren't, due to having opinions similar to what people have posted in this thread - non-religious coping methods.
@Tadashi - I completely agree, we're only a few centuries away from immortality being standard practice for all of humanity. Ideally in life, I'd like to spend some time myself doing whatever I can to advance life extension or immortality tech, in the hopes of having it emerge earlier... I might be set to cease to exist, but if I can prevent even one person from dying, it'll be worth it. Lacking skills in neuroscience or other relevant fields, my contributions are limited to heart disease and cancer research.. get those issues sorted and we'll be well on our way to living to 200+.
The idea would be to slowly replace parts of the brain with exact computer replicas, done over a long period of time so that conciousness persists.
Every cell in our body dies and gets replaced over time, it's the continuity of our conciousness that matters.
Unfortunately, we were born at an unlucky point in time.
And by that I mean, the current technology level of the human species is high enough that most of us in the developed world have stopped believing in religion/witchcraft/monsters in the closet, but also low enough that we haven't invented immortality yet.
Which kinda sucks, really. A few centuries of us will have to suffer mortal terror, and then its immortality (or at least GREATLY extended lifespans) for all.
Another interesting angle - Children with older fathers at the point of conception live longer naturally due to inheriting longer telemores. We could extend our lifespans easily through eugenics or more realistically, genetic modification.
Tadashi wrote: I have no intention of dying...my friends and I intend to combine genetic engineering with nanotechnology to permanently halt aging and be immune to all disease...then we try and figure to establish a real-time communication link with a supercomputer with sufficient memory and processing power to store the entire consciousness of several people. At the instant of death, our consciousness will be uploaded through the supercomputer into prepared clone bodies.
You might want to check on the quantum teleportation/telecopy debate before assuming that would grant you immortality.
@Tadashi - I completely agree, we're only a few centuries away from immortality being standard practice for all of humanity. Ideally in life, I'd like to spend some time myself doing whatever I can to advance life extension or immortality tech, in the hopes of having it emerge earlier... I might be set to cease to exist, but if I can prevent even one person from dying, it'll be worth it. Lacking skills in neuroscience or other relevant fields, my contributions are limited to heart disease and cancer research.. get those issues sorted and we'll be well on our way to living to 200+
The idea would be to slowly replace parts of the brain with exact computer replicas, done over a long period of time so that conciousness persists.
Every cell in our body dies and gets replaced over time, it's the continuity of our conciousness that matters.
Unfortunately, we were born at an unlucky point in time.
And by that I mean, the current technology level of the human species is high enough that most of us in the developed world have stopped believing in religion/witchcraft/monsters in the closet, but also low enough that we haven't invented immortality yet.
Which kinda sucks, really. A few centuries of us will have to suffer mortal terror, and then its immortality (or at least GREATLY extended lifespans) for all.
Not centuries...probably decades. There are four of us who are planning to research and apply our concepts for immortality.
1) Me - a material science student who intends to use nanomachinery to grant complete disease immunity and stabilize my other friends designs 2) Two biology students (I'm not giving names - they intend to go abroad after graduation and study genetics) - lifespan extension via telomeric additions as well as genetically-enhanced/imbued abilities 3) And a computer science and engineering student (the one I mentioned before) - she will handle the supercomputer, real-time link, and consciousness transference part, though she will probably have the hardest time out of us all (naturally, we will handle the clones).
Tadashi wrote: I have no intention of dying...my friends and I intend to combine genetic engineering with nanotechnology to permanently halt aging and be immune to all disease...then we try and figure to establish a real-time communication link with a supercomputer with sufficient memory and processing power to store the entire consciousness of several people. At the instant of death, our consciousness will be uploaded through the supercomputer into prepared clone bodies.
You might want to check on the quantum teleportation/telecopy debate before assuming that would grant you immortality.
As I said, we're still studying...we'll begin work once we finish our education and have the means to do so. Besides, no one else is qualified to identify ourselves than ourselves...if a Captain Kirk-like individual starts spouting nonsense like "You're not Tadashi, you're just a copy..." I'll just tell him to shut up and mind his own business.
Death doesn't scare me that much (said with bravado). Nor really what comes after, it's the concept of eternity- or rather the end of it that gives me night terrors. (Stop reading if you don't want to see the blinding flash and nothingness beyond that I see when I close my eyes and tremble a bit....)
(Seriously)
.... K, so I fear the end of time above all, even death itself. Perhaps for us all, the atheist is right, and nothing is beyond the veil that death uncovers. Perhaps the theist is right, and heaven and hell exist in some way or fashion (no matter what religion).... and it lasts for all time. But really, like everything, there is a beginning and an end. The Universe was created by a big bang. God may have been "Forever", but even the Omnipotent Being(s) had genesis (even if it was self induced or however it is spun) Earth was created, and eventually it will end. Billions, maybe even trillions of years from now the universe will be sundered, split in twain by its vast unchecked expansion. It will collapse back into the nothingness it came from. From there, hypothesis abound from another cycle of the Big Bang, to utter and total annihilation of ALL EXISTENCE. What concerns me however, is no matter what happens between our current point in time, it is completely possible that everything, Heaven, Hell, God, Nirvana, Odin's Hall, the Material Universe, our souls, and beyond will inevitably, through the slow and inexorable march of time come crashing down into dust, and like death, there is simply no "true" explanation as to what may come after "the end of time". After all, according to some, time does not truly exist - it is a concept we made up as a measurement, and once we die, there could be as much nothingness beyond the grave, that may await the universe's own utter destruction.
LoneLictor wrote: Tadashi, do you really believe that you and three friends will unlock immortality?
Yes we do, regardless of whether we succeed or fail in the end, we won't give up. If every scientist and inventor gave up what they wanted to do because everyone else and everything that was known at the time they started said it was 'impossible', we would still be living in caves right now.
The only one truly qualified to say who we are individually is ourself, 'Captain Kirk'...now, be on your way, for I have much to do.
That's a nice little way to avoid the problem. A copy doesn't extend your life, even if it pretends (and beleive) that it's still you.
In Infinity, they had to introduce a 'magical' substance, Silk, to explain how Cube technology could actually allow for true ressurection. I think there was even some pseudo scientific babble as to how it worked. The Cube (the brain chip registering your personnality) extended 'feelers' in your brain, and actually became part of it. Once dead, the feelers would retract, preserving the individuality centers.
Of course that didn't explain how Posthumans could also upload their consciouness in Maya (Infinity's universal Web) and survive there, but hey, at least they tried.
KalashnikovMarine wrote: There might be a way to do all of that, but we know so little about the human brain...
We never believed it to be easy...we've always considered the possibility of failure and being condemned by the rest of society. Even so, giving up even before trying is not something we would do - the others aren't Nitzscheans like myself, but they have been influenced by The Alchemist by Paul Coelho, so even if they don't believe in the Ubermensch, they refuse to give up and will give everything for our dream.
Well then you also change the meaning of immortality. Regardless of your play on semantics, you are no longer alive if you've ceased to exist and yet has transfered all your characteristics to another individual. You've just made a copy.
Don't get me wrong, I'd like life extension. But I don't beleive we'll ever dissociate the personnality from the brain, because the brain is the personnality. We would be better off trying to find ways to preserve the brain for as long as possible.
Kovnik Obama wrote: Well then you also change the meaning of immortality. Regardless of your play on semantics, you are no longer alive if you've ceased to exist and yet has transfered all your characteristics to another individual. You've just made a copy.
Don't get me wrong, I'd like life extension. But I don't beleive we'll ever dissociate the personnality from the brain, because the brain is the personnality. We would be better off trying to find ways to preserve the brain for as long as possible.
I'll see you on the shelf in a few decades. I hope the other brains in jars on my row are cool.
Kovnik Obama wrote: Well then you also change the meaning of immortality. Regardless of your play on semantics, you are no longer alive if you've ceased to exist and yet has transfered all your characteristics to another individual. You've just made a copy.
Don't get me wrong, I'd like life extension. But I don't beleive we'll ever dissociate the personnality from the brain, because the brain is the personnality. We would be better off trying to find ways to preserve the brain for as long as possible.
Oh please. Lets not involve religion, philosophy, morality, or ethics into this. As a purely scientific concept, consciousness is just an organized pattern of bio-electric impulses in the Human brain. In any case, its not like we would keep copies in the main supercomputer: 'Avalon'. That's what a real-time link is for, maintained either by cybernetics or nanomachines or both. We can draw on Avalon's databanks and network access any time, and at the instant of death, the consciousness is transferred via Avalon to prepared bodies. One moment, your collapsing or blacked out, the next instant, you're thrashing in rapidly draining incubation tube.
Kovnik Obama wrote: Well then you also change the meaning of immortality. Regardless of your play on semantics, you are no longer alive if you've ceased to exist and yet has transfered all your characteristics to another individual. You've just made a copy.
Don't get me wrong, I'd like life extension. But I don't beleive we'll ever dissociate the personnality from the brain, because the brain is the personnality. We would be better off trying to find ways to preserve the brain for as long as possible.
I'll see you on the shelf in a few decades. I hope the other brains in jars on my row are cool.
Angrily strolls down the hallway and shooting at jars with a plasma pistol while laser-armed hover automatons follow watchfully.
Quite frankly, I wouldn't want to have my consciousness transferred into a clone at time of death.
I am an atheist, I don't believe in life after death, and one of the bitterest about it is that you constantly remind yourself that you will never see your loved ones again once they have passed on.
I cope with death by reminding myself that eventually I will die, and then I won't have to watch the gakfest of a mess the human race has become. All I see for the human race in the next century or two is a complete sociological meltdown. So once I am gone, I don't want to be brought back so I can watch the species screw things up for another 80 years.
It's not the destination, but the journey that counts.
Some people focus on the afterlife, if such a thing exists. I perfer to focus on living and enjoying every day to the fullest. For me that means spending time with my wife and kids, and spending free time gaming.
It means not working more than 42 hours a week 3/4 of the time. (There are burst periods for work). This is because one never lies on their deathbed and says "Boy I wish I spent more time in the office"
It means ensuring I get as much time on this rock as I can. Trying to eat healthy, not smoking, and driving carefully. Stastically your most likely to die from heart failure, cancer, a stroke. Hedge your bets so you don't get caught by one of small values on this chart and you get hit by the higher ones later in life.
Spoiler:
It means trying to ensure that those people who come after will have as good of a shot as possible. I do this by recycling more than my neighbors, buying food from the local farm, and voting both with my ballot and my dollar.
Death is a part of life. Everyone dies in the end. Even the sun and stars will all die in the end. The trick is making sure that our journey is a great one.
Death is a part of life. Everyone dies in the end. Even the sun and stars will all die in the end. The trick is making sure that our journey is a great one.
KalashnikovMarine wrote: So I've been having a series of panic/anxiety attacks recently, mostly focused on the fact that I am quickly growing older and that shortly, before I even think about it I will die. Obviously this is a whole bunch of fun, but it's something we all have to face/deal with.
How do you face your mortality?
I face death with the fact that i know it is not the end for me. I have lived before and will live again. admitedly my memories of past lives are hazy(all i can remember about my last one is that i was the loader of a Tiger 1E late model and i died somewere in Normandy/France and that i burned to death in my tank when the hatch wouldnt open after we were hit[by a sherman i think]) That said i do have things i wish to acomblish BEFORE i die... losing my V and seeing some of the great natural beauties(landscape NOT women though im fine with them to ) for instance.... But yeah i have lived before and will do again.....
When my gran died about fifteen years ago I actually had a moment when I thought I was going to lose it big time, go over the edge. I was in bed alone, the wife was away at her sisters for the weekend, and the mind started wondering. Now, I'm not a believer and it actually hit me that there is nothing after you have gone. The actual realisation of this at the time really pushed me to the edge mentally, I felt trapped with these thoughts. I have no idea how I processed them, but I did and I stepped back from the brink, but I still dwell on it on a regular basis.
I wonder what the whole point is and why bother. IMHO we are just animals who are aware of our surroundings, we breed and mulitply like any other animal, it's just that we are more successful and we are self aware. I realised that the reason I worry about it is because I do it from another perspective. I'm feeling emotions about how I know my loved ones will feel when I'm gone, when in fact this won't matter as I won't exist to be able to dwell on these feelings. For me my mental fight is "what is the purpose?" People say ablout living your life and having all these wonderful memories, but what is the point as they will mean nothing once my heart stops beating. The memory of me will only really last as long as anybody who knew me is alive, after that, nothing, just a name on a family tree.
I can understand why people hold on to their religion or find religion when close to death, as a self away species we are scared and it provides an answer. It would be great if there was something as I'm nosey and would love to know what the future holds Do we make it to the stars? Is there life out there?
For me I just fight it on a day to day basis, try and keep myself distracted so that my mind has nothing to dwell on when I go to sleep. It works alot of the time, but I still have those moments and they aren't fun. All I can do then is fight my way through it and then hope I'm so knackered the next night I go to sleep straight away
This thread has cheered me up, some of you lot are proper mad fethers!
I am glad that I have no mental issues, and the idea of being six foot under holds no fear for me at all.
The idea that somehow being "aware" even if you were being tortured or in pain, is great compared to nothingness is truly baffling to me! I mean, really, you would prefer torture as long as you knew it was happening?! When you have one of those nice, deep, dreamless sleeps where its all just ignorance and blackness, do you wake up and go "That sucked!"
Of course you don't.. 5 or 6 hours just passed, and I go "Ahh.. that was nice" so I figure death is just, you know.. that exact same thing but longer.
Being aware IS the scary part.. its why heaven and hell are scary. Even heaven might suck after a long time. I mean, think about it.. I love my dog and my dad, but if I was with them for 10,000,000,000 years... they would start to piss me off.. and thats just the begnining? I have another million trillion billion years to go?! That sounds like some sort of real actual torture for a sentient being. I think its that realisation that shows that the short sighted "reward" of the Theist was merely invented by cynical men at a time when we didn't live very long lives.
I reckon after 5 or 6 thousand years of anything I would be bored off my fething tits, and more than welcome the embrace of wonderfully satisfying bliss of ignorant, blessed nothingness.
My outlook is that death isn't something, it's simply and end, and whatever you've done before then is all you'll ever have done unless there's something afterwards, which is improbable. Yeah, it's scary, but that's only because we've never done it before, and it's in our DNA to be scared of death. Just worry about what happens before then, and it'll all be fine.
Leigen_Zero wrote: Quite frankly, I wouldn't want to have my consciousness transferred into a clone at time of death.
I am an atheist, I don't believe in life after death, and one of the bitterest about it is that you constantly remind yourself that you will never see your loved ones again once they have passed on.
I cope with death by reminding myself that eventually I will die, and then I won't have to watch the gakfest of a mess the human race has become. All I see for the human race in the next century or two is a complete sociological meltdown. So once I am gone, I don't want to be brought back so I can watch the species screw things up for another 80 years.
I watched my dad die. I wouldn't say that I was particularly moved by it, though I did feel bad for my granny and uncle, who were also there. They seemed pretty upset.
I can testify to what Testify (heh) was saying earlier - he did look scared, but he wasn't conscious at all really. His eyes were just open and he was kind of moaning. I think it was all the morphine. I didn't see anything to be particularly afraid of.
To the idea of cloning and transferring consciousness.... isn't that the ultimate form of organ donorship? Rather, the ultimate House of the Scorpion donorship, where the clone's own "soul" is expunged to make room for the thing that allowed for the clone's creation? Ergo... isn't bio-transference into a clone murder?
DemetriDominov wrote: To the idea of cloning and transferring consciousness.... isn't that the ultimate form of organ donorship? Rather, the ultimate House of the Scorpion donorship, where the clone's own "soul" is expunged to make room for the thing that allowed for the clone's creation? Ergo... isn't bio-transference into a clone murder?
Seeing as the clones are designed to be 'blank slates' - with no thought patterns of their own - until Avalon transfers the consciousness, no, its not murder.
Tadashi wrote: Oh please. Lets not involve religion, philosophy, morality, or ethics into this.
I'm not. Or yes, I am, in a sense, but that's really not the issue here. I don't understand how you cannot get what I'm trying to get across. It's the simplest thing. Creating this huge system to copy consciousness into another form, whether robotic or organic, really doesn't solve the issue of man's mortality. It won't help anyone cure their existential angst, if they understand what's going on. You die, and another person, identical, is made to take your place. If you were to succeed in this venture, you would not have unlocked immortality, you would simply have created a new form of reproduction.
As a purely scientific concept, consciousness is just an organized pattern of bio-electric impulses in the Human brain.
Overly simplified, but yes. However, with the issue of death, the problem is that those bio-electric impulses (correctly named, in the case of consciouness, thalamo-cortical oscillations) are no longer binding the temporal frame of the same perceptual unit.
One moment, your collapsing or blacked out, the next instant, you're thrashing in rapidly draining incubation tube.
No. Like I said, there's no basis to believe we can transfer the ''I''. You have blacked out. A different unit with the same belief, projets and patterns of agency is born/made. If you want to study this, in a scientifically serious way, Antonio Damasio, a great neuroscientist, would be a good start. He's pretty much successfully identified the portion of the brain that is responsible for the cognitive sense of self (a small part in the brain stem between the cerebral cortex and the spinal cord) .
I'm not. Or yes, I am, in a sense, but that's really not the issue here. I don't understand how you cannot get what I'm trying to get across. It's the simplest thing. Creating this huge system to copy consciousness into another form, whether robotic or organic, really doesn't solve the issue of man's mortality. It won't help anyone cure their existential angst, if they understand what's going on. You die, and another person, identical, is made to take your place. If you were to succeed in this venture, you would not have unlocked immortality, you would simply have created a new form of reproduction.
Look, we've also argued over that...but we've already convinced ourselves by telling ourselves over and over again: "Our consciousness will be linked directly to Avalon, and the flesh will be just a vessel." I suppose you can say we've desensitized ourselves of the issue (or even resolutely bent on dehumanizing ourselves), but as I said, its only the barest hypothesis yet - for one thing, the resources necessary for such a monumental task aren't exactly what one would call easy to obtain.
No. Like I said, there's no basis to believe we can transfer the ''I''. You have blacked out. A different unit with the same belief, projets and patterns of agency is born/made. If you want to study this, in a scientifically serious way, Antonio Damasio, a great neuroscientist, would be a good start. He's pretty much successfully identified the portion of the brain that is responsible for the cognitive sense of self (a small part in the brain stem between the cerebral cortex and the spinal cord) .
Leigen_Zero wrote: Quite frankly, I wouldn't want to have my consciousness transferred into a clone at time of death.
I am an atheist, I don't believe in life after death, and one of the bitterest about it is that you constantly remind yourself that you will never see your loved ones again once they have passed on.
I cope with death by reminding myself that eventually I will die, and then I won't have to watch the gakfest of a mess the human race has become. All I see for the human race in the next century or two is a complete sociological meltdown. So once I am gone, I don't want to be brought back so I can watch the species screw things up for another 80 years.
That seems unrealistically pessimistic.
Can't see the pic I'm afraid, mainly because work blocks most pictures (except the dakka gallery thankfully).
It's less pessimism and more bitterness, all I'm saying is that the universe hasn't been particularly unkind to me personally, but when I look around all I see is a lot of misery and decay, and not much happiness.
Quite frankly I've lost my faith in humanity, and the way things are headed right now I don't want to be around in 100 years time to see our future generations trying to sort out the crap we left them in...
I will graciously welcome death, to escape the downhill slope of humanity, to personally discover the greatest mystery of the universe. All I ask of death is that mine is quick and clean.
Leonardo Da Vinci's last words, all this time I thought I was learning how to live, in fact I have just been learning how to die.
Leigen_Zero wrote: Quite frankly, I wouldn't want to have my consciousness transferred into a clone at time of death.
I am an atheist, I don't believe in life after death, and one of the bitterest about it is that you constantly remind yourself that you will never see your loved ones again once they have passed on.
I cope with death by reminding myself that eventually I will die, and then I won't have to watch the gakfest of a mess the human race has become. All I see for the human race in the next century or two is a complete sociological meltdown. So once I am gone, I don't want to be brought back so I can watch the species screw things up for another 80 years.
That seems unrealistically pessimistic.
Can't see the pic I'm afraid, mainly because work blocks most pictures (except the dakka gallery thankfully).
It's less pessimism and more bitterness, all I'm saying is that the universe hasn't been particularly unkind to me personally, but when I look around all I see is a lot of misery and decay, and not much happiness.
Quite frankly I've lost my faith in humanity, and the way things are headed right now I don't want to be around in 100 years time to see our future generations trying to sort out the crap we left them in...
I'll never lose my faith in humanity as long as we do stuff like this:
Humanity will live on, even if it is just the smart people who survive.
Leigen_Zero wrote: Quite frankly, I wouldn't want to have my consciousness transferred into a clone at time of death.
I am an atheist, I don't believe in life after death, and one of the bitterest about it is that you constantly remind yourself that you will never see your loved ones again once they have passed on.
I cope with death by reminding myself that eventually I will die, and then I won't have to watch the gakfest of a mess the human race has become. All I see for the human race in the next century or two is a complete sociological meltdown. So once I am gone, I don't want to be brought back so I can watch the species screw things up for another 80 years.
That seems unrealistically pessimistic.
Can't see the pic I'm afraid, mainly because work blocks most pictures (except the dakka gallery thankfully).
It's less pessimism and more bitterness, all I'm saying is that the universe hasn't been particularly unkind to me personally, but when I look around all I see is a lot of misery and decay, and not much happiness.
Quite frankly I've lost my faith in humanity, and the way things are headed right now I don't want to be around in 100 years time to see our future generations trying to sort out the crap we left them in...
Wait you live in a 1st world country with a massive economic, cultural, military, scientific and political influence and all you see is misery and decay?
I'm not particularly afraid of dying. I've lead a reasonably moral life, and I've done my best at my duty. One of these days I'll get to deploy, and chances are I'll make it back, but if I don't, stuff happens. The only thing I'll regret is if I fail my battles. Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.
KalashnikovMarine wrote: So I've been having a series of panic/anxiety attacks recently, mostly focused on the fact that I am quickly growing older and that shortly, before I even think about it I will die. Obviously this is a whole bunch of fun, but it's something we all have to face/deal with.
How do you face your mortality?
I say this whenever I can.
Lord, thank you for the time you have given me with them (family and dogs, usually said when I am watching little TBone), thank you so much.
I have achieved everything needed. I did the best I could for my parents and family. My kids will be glorious. My wife is strong. I now just hope to take care of the TBone and Rusty in their last days, to take care of them as best I can, and later take care of Rodney when he is old. I ask nothing for myself. When the cancer comes, and it will, I will say goodbye and take my last ride. No one will be burdened by that.
The honor, is to serve.
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sarpedons-right-hand wrote: Just out of interest, have any of you actually seen someone die? Believe me, invariably it ain't pretty. All this talk of welcoming death, all this bullgak of 'I would welcome it with open arms' and 'going peacefully', it's gak, all of it.....
I sit with people as they are dying almost three times a month, and you what? I have never in 8 years of doing my current job, never, seen anyone go peacefully. Before anyone says 'yeah, but how the hell do you know?!', I work in palliative care. That is a nice way of saying end of life care. And it's hard.
Yeah, you do get somewhat desensitised to the whole thing. But making that phone call is never easy. And facing the family of the deceased is easily the hardest thing you will ever do. Especially if it's a youngster......
And when you've been alive long enough to get used to it, stopping breathing is awful. I've seen the fear in people's eyes when the time comes, no matter how blasé they were about dying in the months leading up to the event. It's still fething scary.
But even after all this, I wouldn't say it scares me. When the time comes I will try my damnedest to just let it come. Don't fight it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just out of interest, have any of you actually seen someone die? Believe me, invariably it ain't pretty. All this talk of welcoming death, all this bullgak of 'I would welcome it with open arms' and 'going peacefully', it's gak, all of it.....
I sit with people as they are dying almost three times a month, and you what? I have never in 8 years of doing my current job, never, seen anyone go peacefully. Before anyone says 'yeah, but how the hell do you know?!', I work in palliative care. That is a nice way of saying end of life care. And it's hard.
Yeah, you do get somewhat desensitised to the whole thing. But making that phone call is never easy. And facing the family of the deceased is easily the hardest thing you will ever do. Especially if it's a youngster......
And when you've been alive long enough to get used to it, stopping breathing is awful. I've seen the fear in people's eyes when the time comes, no matter how blasé they were about dying in the months leading up to the event. It's still fething scary.
But even after all this, I wouldn't say it scares me. When the time comes I will try my damnedest to just let it come. Don't fight it.
My Dad did. He was breathing hard. I told him mom would be ok, he taught me well, my wife would be ok, his grandkids would be glorious, and Rusty (his dog) would be ok. He smiled.
He passed.
Wait you live in a 1st world country with a massive economic, cultural, military, scientific and political influence and all you see is misery and decay?
I may live in said country, but that doesn't make it any less miserable. If you have ever lived in the areas of South Wales that suffered near-total collapse after the closure of all the primary industry you see what I'm on about when I say misery and decay.
South Wales has some of the highest levels Unemployment, drug use, alcoholism, crime, chronic illnesses, obesity, cultural deprivation, etc within the '1st world countries'.
Needless to say, it's pretty hard to take an optimistic view on the species when every day I drive past the bus-stop, outside a derelict building, and see the chavs in their trakkie bottoms smoking and drinking cheap lager while their 17-year-old girlfriends stand around swearing at their unwashed babies.
IAmTheWalrus wrote: I'm not particularly afraid of dying. I've lead a reasonably moral life, and I've done my best at my duty. One of these days I'll get to deploy, and chances are I'll make it back, but if I don't, stuff happens. The only thing I'll regret is if I fail my battles. Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.
It's even sweeter to have the other guy die for his. That way you're still around to savour the sweet smell of napalm ... or something.
No-one ever won a war by dying for their cause. You win by making the other guys die for theirs. Then they're all dead and you can just move in.
I watched my dad die. He fought for a bit, then just gave into it.
I like to believe that every living thing has this life force-like energy, and that the living body is a way for the life force to experience and interact with the world so in a way I won't die, my body dies but my energy lives on and can either end up in a new body or join up with other life forces where it becomes a collective consciousness.
I once fell asleep in the dentists chair while I was having a tooth drilled. I can pinpoint the moment I fell asleep and woke up because I remember what the two dentists were saying. That momentary obliteration of reality is what it must feel like to die, except you don't wake up. So I think to myself that I know what it's like to die.
It sucks if you think about it, because everything you know now is a microscopic prologue to an eternity of nothingness. But hey, once I'm dead I won't have to worry about money or responsibilities and I won't have to do any work and everything that makes me unhappy or annoyed will leave me alone forever The best way the OP can handle his/her panic attacks is to reflect on all the things that suck about life and how they'll all be gone within a number of decades (or less, depending on how safely you drive ).
CuddlySquig wrote: I once fell asleep in the dentists chair while I was having a tooth drilled. I can pinpoint the moment I fell asleep and woke up because I remember what the two dentists were saying. That momentary obliteration of reality is what it must feel like to die, except you don't wake up. So I think to myself that I know what it's like to die.
It sucks if you think about it, because everything you know now is a microscopic prologue to an eternity of nothingness. But hey, once I'm dead I won't have to worry about money or responsibilities and I won't have to do any work and everything that makes me unhappy or annoyed will leave me alone forever The best way the OP can handle his/her panic attacks is to reflect on all the things that suck about life and how they'll all be gone within a number of decades (or less, depending on how safely you drive ).
Possibly. A lot of speculation here, but not enough I think to cover the infinite number of possibilities.
Ah death, that release that I've sought out time and time again only to be rejected and consigned to the realm of the living. Death is not something I fear, except in rare moments when my life feels like its on the tip of a needle with life on one side and death on the other, but rather the passing from one state to another. Why I fear in those moments is beyond me, instinct perhaps.Not a passing i will mourn for, I just hope I can do some good while I'm on this side.
I think that's the point. Or some sort of deep, meaningful conversation...on a board where our emoticons are orks spelled with a k that speak in a cockney accent.
And now I'm watching Joffrey get slapped just the way he deserved.
First deployment?
) for instance.... But yeah i have lived before and will do again.....
Do we make it to the stars? Is there life out there?
