Death

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**Monster Rain**

Medium of Death wrote:
If anybody wants to meet up in MR's version of death we could be the best god damned ethereal sky diving team.

After a few aeons we could move over into synchronized diving to change things up a bit.

**Albatross**

I watched my dad die. I wouldn't say that I was particularly moved by it, though I did feel bad for my granny and uncle, who were also there. They seemed pretty upset.

I can testify to what Testify (heh) was saying earlier - he did look scared, but he wasn't conscious at all really. His eyes were just open and he was kind of moaning. I think it was all the morphine. I didn't see anything to be particularly afraid of.

Not that I'm looking forward to it or anything.

**Asherian Command**

I do not fear death.

But I do fear the death of others i know of. I would rather die a thousand times than see one of my friends die.

Of course thats just me.

**DemetriDominov**

To the idea of cloning and transferring consciousness.... isn't that the ultimate form of organ donorship? Rather, the ultimate House of the Scorpion donorship, where the clone's own "soul" is expunged to make room for the thing that allowed for the clone's creation? Ergo... isn't bio-transference into a clone murder?

**Jihadin**

My first words will be on revival "Resistance is futile"

**Tadashi**

DemetriDominov wrote:
To the idea of cloning and transferring consciousness.... isn't that the ultimate form of organ donorship? Rather, the ultimate House of the Scorpion donorship, where the clone's own "soul" is expunged to make room for the thing that allowed for the clone's creation? Ergo... isn't bio-transference into a clone murder?

Seeing as the clones are designed to be 'blank slates' - with no thought patterns of their own - until Avalon transfers the consciousness, no, its not murder.

**Kovnik Obama**

Tadashi wrote:
Oh please. Lets not involve religion, philosophy, morality, or ethics into this.

I'm not. Or yes, I am, in a sense, but that's really not the issue here. I don't understand how you cannot get what I'm trying to get across. It's the simplest thing. Creating this huge system to copy consciousness into another form, whether robotic or organic, really doesn't solve the issue of man's mortality. It won't help anyone cure their existential angst, if they understand what's going on. You die, and another person, identical, is made to take your place. If you were to succeed in this venture, you would not have unlocked immortality, you would simply have created a new form of reproduction.

As a purely scientific concept, consciousness is just an organized pattern of bio-electric impulses in the Human brain.

Overly simplified, but yes. However, with the issue of death, the problem is that those bio-electric impulses (correctly named, in the case of consciouness, thalamo-cortical oscillations) are no longer binding the temporal frame of the same perceptual unit.

One moment, your collapsing or blacked out, the next instant, you're thrashing in rapidly draining incubation tube.

No. Like I said, there's no basis to believe we can transfer the ''I''. You have blacked out. A different unit with the same belief, projets and patterns of agency is born/made. If you want to study this, in a scientifically serious way, Antonio Damasio, a great neuroscientist, would be a good start. He's pretty much successfully identified the portion of the brain that is responsible for the cognitive sense of self (a small part in the brain stem between the cerebral cortex and the spinal cord) .

**Tadashi**

Kovnik Obama wrote:

I'm not. Or yes, I am, in a sense, but that's really not the issue here. I don't understand how you cannot get what I'm trying to get across. It's the simplest thing. Creating this huge system to copy consciousness into another form, whether robotic or organic, really doesn't solve the issue of man's mortality. It won't help anyone cure their existential angst, if they understand what's going on. You die, and another person, identical, is made to take your place. If you were to succeed in this venture, you would not have unlocked immortality, you would simply have created a new form of reproduction.

Look, we've also argued over that...but we've already convinced ourselves by telling ourselves over and over again: "Our consciousness will be linked directly to Avalon, and the flesh will be just a vessel." I suppose you can say we've desensitized ourselves of the issue (or even resolutely bent on dehumanizing ourselves), but as I said, its only the barest hypothesis yet - for one thing, the resources necessary for such a monumental task aren't exactly what one would call easy to obtain.

No. Like I said, there's no basis to believe we can transfer the ''I''. You have blacked out. A different unit with the same belief, projets and patterns of agency is born/made. If you want to study this, in a scientifically serious way, Antonio Damasio, a great neuroscientist, would be a good start. He's pretty much successfully identified the portion of the brain that is responsible for the cognitive sense of self (a small part in the brain stem between the cerebral cortex and the spinal cord) .

I'll look into his work.

**Leigen_Zero**

Cheesecat wrote:
Leigen_Zero wrote:
Quite frankly, I wouldn't want to have my consciousness transferred into a clone at time of death.

I am an atheist, I don't believe in life after death, and one of the bitterest about it is that you constantly remind yourself that you will never see your loved ones again once they have passed on.

I cope with death by reminding myself that eventually I will die, and then I won't have to watch the gakfest of a mess the human race has become. All I see for the human race in the next century or two is a complete sociological meltdown. So once I am gone, I don't want to be brought back so I can watch the species screw things up for another 80 years.

That seems unrealistically pessimistic.

Can't see the pic I'm afraid, mainly because work blocks most pictures (except the dakka gallery thankfully).

It's less pessimism and more bitterness, all I'm saying is that the universe hasn't been particularly unkind to me personally, but when I look around all I see is a lot of misery and decay, and not much happiness.

Quite frankly I've lost my faith in humanity, and the way things are headed right now I don't want to be around in 100 years time to see our future generations trying to sort out the crap we left them in...

**blood guard26**

I will graciously welcome death, to escape the downhill slope of humanity, to personally discover the greatest mystery of the universe. All I ask of death is that mine is quick and clean.

Leonardo Da Vinci's last words, all this time I thought I was learning how to live, in fact I have just been learning how to die.

**GalacticDefender**

Leigen_Zero wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
Leigen_Zero wrote:
Quite frankly, I wouldn't want to have my consciousness transferred into a clone at time of death.

I am an atheist, I don't believe in life after death, and one of the bitterest about it is that you constantly remind yourself that you will never see your loved ones again once they have passed on.

I cope with death by reminding myself that eventually I will die, and then I won't have to watch the gakfest of a mess the human race has become. All I see for the human race in the next century or two is a complete sociological meltdown. So once I am gone, I don't want to be brought back so I can watch the species screw things up for another 80 years.

That seems unrealistically pessimistic.

Can't see the pic I'm afraid, mainly because work blocks most pictures (except the dakka gallery thankfully).

It's less pessimism and more bitterness, all I'm saying is that the universe hasn't been particularly unkind to me personally, but when I look around all I see is a lot of misery and decay, and not much happiness.

Quite frankly I've lost my faith in humanity, and the way things are headed right now I don't want to be around in 100 years time to see our future generations trying to sort out the crap we left them in...

I'll never lose my faith in humanity as long as we do stuff like this:

Humanity will live on, even if it is just the smart people who survive.

**Cheesecat**

Leigen_Zero wrote:
Cheesecat wrote:
Leigen_Zero wrote:
Quite frankly, I wouldn't want to have my consciousness transferred into a clone at time of death.

I am an atheist, I don't believe in life after death, and one of the bitterest about it is that you constantly remind yourself that you will never see your loved ones again once they have passed on.

I cope with death by reminding myself that eventually I will die, and then I won't have to watch the gakfest of a mess the human race has become. All I see for the human race in the next century or two is a complete sociological meltdown. So once I am gone, I don't want to be brought back so I can watch the species screw things up for another 80 years.

That seems unrealistically pessimistic.

Can't see the pic I'm afraid, mainly because work blocks most pictures (except the dakka gallery thankfully).

It's less pessimism and more bitterness, all I'm saying is that the universe hasn't been particularly unkind to me personally, but when I look around all I see is a lot of misery and decay, and not much happiness.

Quite frankly I've lost my faith in humanity, and the way things are headed right now I don't want to be around in 100 years time to see our future generations trying to sort out the crap we left them in...

Wait you live in a 1st world country with a massive economic, cultural, military, scientific and political influence and all you see is misery and decay?

**IAmTheWalrus**

I'm not particularly afraid of dying. I've lead a reasonably moral life, and I've done my best at my duty. One of these days I'll get to deploy, and chances are I'll make it back, but if I don't, stuff happens. The only thing I'll regret is if I fail my battles. Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.

**Piston Honda**

Can spend time worrying about death.

Or spend time enjoying life while you have it.

As far as I know, you only have 1.

**Frazzled**

KalashnikovMarine wrote:
So I've been having a series of panic/anxiety attacks recently, mostly focused on the fact that I am quickly growing older and that shortly, before I even think about it I will die. Obviously this is a whole bunch of fun, but it's something we all have to face/deal with.

How do you face your mortality?

I say this whenever I can.
Lord, thank you for the time you have given me with them (family and dogs, usually said when I am watching little TBone), thank you so much.

I have achieved everything needed. I did the best I could for my parents and family. My kids will be glorious. My wife is strong. I now just hope to take care of the TBone and Rusty in their last days, to take care of them as best I can, and later take care of Rodney when he is old. I ask nothing for myself. When the cancer comes, and it will, I will say goodbye and take my last ride. No one will be burdened by that.

The honor, is to serve.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:
Just out of interest, have any of you actually seen someone die? Believe me, invariably it ain't pretty. All this talk of welcoming death, all this bullgak of 'I would welcome it with open arms' and 'going peacefully', it's gak, all of it.....
I sit with people as they are dying almost three times a month, and you what? I have never in 8 years of doing my current job, never, seen anyone go peacefully. Before anyone says 'yeah, but how the hell do you know?!', I work in palliative care. That is a nice way of saying end of life care. And it's hard.

Yeah, you do get somewhat desensitised to the whole thing. But making that phone call is never easy. And facing the family of the deceased is easily the hardest thing you will ever do. Especially if it's a youngster......

And when you've been alive long enough to get used to it, stopping breathing is awful. I've seen the fear in people's eyes when the time comes, no matter how blasé they were about dying in the months leading up to the event. It's still fething scary.

But even after all this, I wouldn't say it scares me. When the time comes I will try my damnedest to just let it come. Don't fight it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just out of interest, have any of you actually seen someone die? Believe me, invariably it ain't pretty. All this talk of welcoming death, all this bullgak of 'I would welcome it with open arms' and 'going peacefully', it's gak, all of it.....
I sit with people as they are dying almost three times a month, and you what? I have never in 8 years of doing my current job, never, seen anyone go peacefully. Before anyone says 'yeah, but how the hell do you know?!', I work in palliative care. That is a nice way of saying end of life care. And it's hard.

Yeah, you do get somewhat desensitised to the whole thing. But making that phone call is never easy. And facing the family of the deceased is easily the hardest thing you will ever do. Especially if it's a youngster......

And when you've been alive long enough to get used to it, stopping breathing is awful. I've seen the fear in people's eyes when the time comes, no matter how blasé they were about dying in the months leading up to the event. It's still fething scary.

But even after all this, I wouldn't say it scares me. When the time comes I will try my damnedest to just let it come. Don't fight it.

My Dad did. He was breathing hard. I told him mom would be ok, he taught me well, my wife would be ok, his grandkids would be glorious, and Rusty (his dog) would be ok. He smiled.
He passed.

**Leigen_Zero**

Cheesecat wrote:

Wait you live in a 1st world country with a massive economic, cultural, military, scientific and political influence and all you see is misery and decay?

I may live in said country, but that doesn't make it any less miserable. If you have ever lived in the areas of South Wales that suffered near-total collapse after the closure of all the primary industry you see what I'm on about when I say misery and decay.

South Wales has some of the highest levels Unemployment, drug use, alcoholism, crime, chronic illnesses, obesity, cultural deprivation, etc within the '1st world countries'.

Needless to say, it's pretty hard to take an optimistic view on the species when every day I drive past the bus-stop, outside a derelict building, and see the chavs in their trakkie bottoms smoking and drinking cheap lager while their 17-year-old girlfriends stand around swearing at their unwashed babies.

**blood guard26**

This has to be one of the most philosophical threads on this whole website.

**chromedog**

IAmTheWalrus wrote:
I'm not particularly afraid of dying. I've lead a reasonably moral life, and I've done my best at my duty. One of these days I'll get to deploy, and chances are I'll make it back, but if I don't, stuff happens. The only thing I'll regret is if I fail my battles. Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.

It's even sweeter to have the other guy die for his. That way you're still around to savour the sweet smell of napalm ... or something.

No-one ever won a war by dying for their cause. You win by making the other guys die for theirs. Then they're all dead and you can just move in.

I watched my dad die. He fought for a bit, then just gave into it.

I just want it to be quick and painless.

**MetalOxide**

I like to believe that every living thing has this life force-like energy, and that the living body is a way for the life force to experience and interact with the world so in a way I won't die, my body dies but my energy lives on and can either end up in a new body or join up with other life forces where it becomes a collective consciousness.

**CuddlySquig**

I once fell asleep in the dentists chair while I was having a tooth drilled. I can pinpoint the moment I fell asleep and woke up because I remember what the two dentists were saying. That momentary obliteration of reality is what it must feel like to die, except you don't wake up. So I think to myself that I know what it's like to die.
It sucks if you think about it, because everything you know now is a microscopic prologue to an eternity of nothingness. But hey, once I'm dead I won't have to worry about money or responsibilities and I won't have to do any work and everything that makes me unhappy or annoyed will leave me alone forever

The best way the OP can handle his/her panic attacks is to reflect on all the things that suck about life and how they'll all be gone within a number of decades (or less, depending on how safely you drive

).

**xole**

CuddlySquig wrote:
I once fell asleep in the dentists chair while I was having a tooth drilled. I can pinpoint the moment I fell asleep and woke up because I remember what the two dentists were saying. That momentary obliteration of reality is what it must feel like to die, except you don't wake up. So I think to myself that I know what it's like to die.
It sucks if you think about it, because everything you know now is a microscopic prologue to an eternity of nothingness. But hey, once I'm dead I won't have to worry about money or responsibilities and I won't have to do any work and everything that makes me unhappy or annoyed will leave me alone forever
The best way the OP can handle his/her panic attacks is to reflect on all the things that suck about life and how they'll all be gone within a number of decades (or less, depending on how safely you drive ).

Possibly. A lot of speculation here, but not enough I think to cover the infinite number of possibilities.

**Luco**

Ah death, that release that I've sought out time and time again only to be rejected and consigned to the realm of the living. Death is not something I fear, except in rare moments when my life feels like its on the tip of a needle with life on one side and death on the other, but rather the passing from one state to another. Why I fear in those moments is beyond me, instinct perhaps.Not a passing i will mourn for, I just hope I can do some good while I'm on this side.

**Monster Rain**

It just got seriously emo in here.

**xole**

Monster Rain wrote:
It just got seriously emo in here.

I think that's the point. Or some sort of deep, meaningful conversation...on a board where our emoticons are orks spelled with a k that speak in a cockney accent.

And now I'm watching Joffrey get slapped just the way he deserved.

**Kovnik Obama**

xole wrote:

And now I'm watching Joffrey get slapped just the way he deserved.

It's hypnotising, isn't it?

Also, currently reading Marcuse. Apparently, the proper reaction to death is fething. Fething a lot. Fething all the time.

That philosopher might be unto something.

''Hello cuty, how about we go forget our existential angst for a couple of hours?''

Ought to works.

**KalashnikovMarine**

Kovnik Obama wrote:
xole wrote:

And now I'm watching Joffrey get slapped just the way he deserved.

It's hypnotising, isn't it?

Also, currently reading Marcuse. Apparently, the proper reaction to death is fething. Fething a lot. Fething all the time.

That philosopher might be unto something.

''Hello cuty, how about we go forget our existential angst for a couple of hours?''

Ought to works.

....Hmmm yeah that's a philosophy I think everyone can get along with.