Do you think Dark Vengeance is a good value purchase in your home country?

I think it is a ok price. It could have come with better dice and a new range finder would have been cool. Maby a painting guide ?

50 models for $110? For around round $2 a model, you can have the start of two new armies.

Or, like my local group likes to remind me, you can start one army, as Dark Angels are Chaos lite...

Would it really hurt GW to make a DV tape measure, or at least change the templates?

I somehow get the feeling DA players get a better value. They get alot of models plus that chaplain, and they seem like units one would want to use in battle.

Chaos kinda got screwed. GW obviously didn't want marine on marine, but come on, 6 marines, 20 cultists and a dread against 12 marines, 5 termies and bikes (which have the majority of the plasma, like they need it).

There is very little in the box I could use for my chaos army besides a general lift off the ground. The dread has a multi-melta, when was the last time someone brought a BR dread to the field? The chosen are few and tooled out, in other words, a point sink. The lord might be good...unless I get one in termie armor instead. Cultists are usable...but the box sets that will hit the stores in a few weeks probably have more options,

Little rulebook is nice and all, and the box really has a nice price with REALLY nice models, but I may consider a battleforce instead. 15 marines, 8 zerkers, 5 possessed and a rhino are more my taste

I can't see any complaints about it really - £65 and you get a shed load of models, £32.50 for each army if you split the cost with a friend.

It is fantastically good value for money. Just break it down individually, how much would it cost you? A hell of a lot more than £65. Sure you don't get the flexibility of being able to make your own poses but they're good models!

If someone wants to get into 40k, as a brand new player, I'd sell them this

Its very good value in my mind, two armies and complete rulesett = very goodvalue, not to mentioen the other stuff you get in the set.

Dark angels:
Company master (Space Marine Commander £14)
Librarian (any PA librarian £9.50)
tactical Squad (Tactical squad £23, but no PC)
Terminator Squad (Terminator squad £28
bike squad (Space marine bike £8x3)

And trade away the Chaos for more...

It would be good value if i lived in the UK, it's $130 + tax here in Canada, which means its $150 @.@.

While I love the chaos models, I have to agree Dark Angels got more bang for there buck in this situation.. I'm waiting to see if they release a box set of chosen, cultists, and the Hellbrute as the only model I really would want is Kranon if the others are available in plastic kits. Cultists look alright, and the hellbrute has a severe lack of detail in the back compared to every model in there.

I saw the battle-report in the WD. Hellbrute smashed everything and the Chosen smashed the Deathwing (with a bit of help from one of the surviving Cultists) and Kranon killed both of the Librarian and the Captain IIRC. It's really a win win for me, as I collect DA already and it would be nice to add another Librarian with my SH termie one and I was going to collect a Cultist army with my friend for tourny that happens once a month.
All in all, it could be reduced by $10 or so, or have some extra small goodies (e.g. some extra bits to snap onto your characters to make them stand out) but a fair price all in all.

For me its the $180 price tag that goes on it which gets me, too expensive. The multitude of models is amazing for the price but I just dont have that kind of money laying around in my budget to spend on.... To e-bay I go!

Marine_With_Heart wrote:
For me its the $180 price tag that goes on it which gets me, too expensive. The multitude of models is amazing for the price but I just dont have that kind of money laying around in my budget to spend on.... To e-bay I go!

wtf?! Seriously, that's like £115. Jesus, I don't think I'll ever complain about GW prices ever again...

As a long time player I find that this box set has no value for me what so ever. I don't play Chaos or Dark Angels and I have no desire to collect them. To me the box set is a fail.

Looking beyond it's worth to me, I can see it as a moderately good value to a beginning player or an interested veteran. Personally I would have liked to see it around a $75 to $80 price point.

For the price it's an excellent value. DA does make out better, however. They can plasma the Chaos stuff off the table. The Hellbrute should have come with an assault cannon or plasma cannon or something that could deal with everything else across the table. I'm waiting to see what the codex rules are for cultists before I commit fully to a DV purchase. I fully expect them to be meat shields, and as long as they're cheap ones I could be convinced to go splitsies a couple of times.

In Germany the box stands at 85€ and for that money one wouldn't get half as much if bought otherwise. Plus the minis look awesome and a rulebook in miniformat is always useful.

If only I liked Dark Angels…I would have picked it up without thought.

The models are spectacular, not for just a boxed set, but as stand-alones.

Now all they need to do is update the CSM codex and my WB force shall begin!

 quilava1 wrote:
Would it really hurt GW to make a DV tape measure, or at least change the templates?

Guess you missed the Munitorum tape measure and Templates, huh?

Model wise, your looking at paying £150+ for all the stuff on its own, then templates, book and a few dice thrown into that.
Granted you get a few spare parts by buying it seperate, but a few spare parts compared to some pretty unique looking models at around 1/3 of the cost?
Im sold.

Got 2 sets at the moment and im thinking about buying a 3rd set.
Cultists will be around £20 for 10 im guessing, so 2 box's of them and your only £20 off a full box, which you can buy, salvage what else you want and sell the rest for proffit.

The way the hellbrutes designed its easy to change the posing of head, arms and legs, so multiple of them isnt an issue. (want 3+ of them)
So, someone said about poor weapons on the hellbrute? you get an assault cannon termie in the box, its not hard to do a quick chop and swap (if its a legal weapon option)

All in all, im amazed by the box.
Better quality models than in BR, with things you will actually use.


Ebay has gone nuts straight away with this one.


Hellbrute and chosen - £12 each
Cultists - £11 for 10
Chaos lord - £5

Libby - £5
Tac squad - £11
Master - £5
Bikes - £12
Termies - £12
Chappy - £20

Prices will obviously change in the next couple of weeks, but its selling alot of stuff, and quickly.

I actually put down 'somewhat, it could be a bit cheaper'

Then it occurred to me, it actually is with the standard version. Although I'm hoping the extra £1.50 is just a VAT thing.

60 pounds for a starter game does seem fairly reasonable. Consider it's 18 years since second edition with its monopose 40 gretchins, 20 orks and 20 marines it's not that much of a difference.

Especially since the dreadnaught this go round comes with a whole extra dimension!

its only $25 more than the rulebook, so hell yeah it is

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

 quilava1 wrote:
Would it really hurt GW to make a DV tape measure, or at least change the templates?

Guess you missed the Munitorum tape measure and Templates, huh?

I didn't miss it per say, I disliked the servo skull and decided to get the dice over the templates.

Point is, it is pretty pricy when I could get a battleforce for about the same price. Of course, if there was a special ruler/dice that came with it, I'm all for forking over the extra cash. But with 3 templates, 7 dice and those horrendous red pieces of trash, all of which I got in Black Reach mind you, I really am uncertain about the box. Yes the models are beautiful, but as I and another poster said earlier, not only do the DA hog the PA, but they hog the plasma. The box is incredibly unbalanced, DA will always win. Incredibly funny how that goes:

DA:
All models in PA or better
5 plasma weapons
2 PS, 4 PF, 1 PM
1 rending gun

Chaos:
Only 7 of the models in PA, nothing better
Only a single plasma weapon
a Multi-melta with no armor to melt. O boy, you killed a termie, you get PF'd to death in return
1 PS, 1 PA, 1 PF (Not including Hellbrute), 1 PM, 1 LC, Dread with PF

Pretty much, DA have ALL the armor and ALL the anti-armor. The diverse weapon array on the chosen back fires as only 2 guys can actually penetrate TEQs. Hellbrute is the anti-tank unit playing a list with no tanks. I think I'd rather have the termies.

Models are beautiful, and the rulebook is a must eventually, but I just think a battleforce would be more practical for starting my force at the given time.

I thought it was such good value I bought two copies! Great additions to my DA army and plenty of chaos for starting a new army or adding to my word bearers!

This is my next planned "big purchase". As much as I want the DA models, between AoBR and this I'll have a modest Ork/Chaos ally force to use as a change of pace army.

 quilava1 wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

 quilava1 wrote:
Would it really hurt GW to make a DV tape measure, or at least change the templates?

Guess you missed the Munitorum tape measure and Templates, huh?

I didn't miss it per say, I disliked the servo skull and decided to get the dice over the templates.


Models are beautiful, and the rulebook is a must eventually, but I just think a battleforce would be more practical for starting my force at the given time.

Those tools, like the dice, wrre meant to coincide with the release of the new set, sooo....

And remember that for a beginning player, a battleforce is a good value, but sometimes useless. Dark Angels Ravenwing is a hell of a deal, but it is a ~400 unit that requires another $50 mini to be used. Dark Vengeance provides two beginners with two armies to acclimatize themselves to a new game.

As always with GW, it is good value when compared against what the box components would cost if one were to buy them individually from GW but this fails to take into account the fact that the individual components are already wildly expensive. So you end up getting a box that is still expensive but looks good value when the RRP is totted up.

Ultimately, you are buying for £70, a few lumps of plastic that cost pence to manufacture - I'm not sure the word 'value' can really apply in this case, or perhaps in any case when it comes to a relatively expensive hobby like wargaming.

 filbert wrote:
As always with GW, it is good value when compared against what the box components would cost if one were to buy them individually from GW but this fails to take into account the fact that the individual components are already wildly expensive. So you end up getting a box that is still expensive but looks good value when the RRP is totted up.

Ultimately, you are buying for £70, a few lumps of plastic that cost pence to manufacture - I'm not sure the word 'value' can really apply in this case, or perhaps in any case when it comes to a relatively expensive hobby like wargaming.

You can apply that logic to anything though, Carling costs about 2 or 3p per pint to make, and depending where you live, is about £3 a pint to buy?

For a starting force, for a beginner who wants to get playing the game - it is good value, they've put the box set price up £2.50 compared to Black Reach, or the Warhammer game, and considering the prices they've increased the Battleforces, this is alright by GW standards.

 stubacca wrote:


For a starting force, for a beginner who wants to get playing the game - it is good value, they've put the box set price up £2.50 compared to Black Reach, or the Warhammer game, and considering the prices they've increased the Battleforces, this is alright by GW standards.

The price has increased £2.50 from the last price rise on the AOBR set. This is a fairly important distinction to make; when it came out, AOBR was £40 or £45 IIRC and that was only, what, 4 years ago?

Ultimately, anyone in the wargaming hobby makes a value judgement about what constitutes good value to them; the point I ma trying to make is that if you add up the RRP of all the bits in the box, then yes, it is good value but it becomes less good value (if that makes grammatical sense!) if you are of the opinion or come to the conclusion that the RRP of the individual bits is already over-inflated to begin with.

Personally speaking, I think the box set is rapidly approaching the boundary of being/appearing to be too expensive for a newcomer and ultimately, that is the core audience for this box set. There is already significant sticker shock when one walks into a GW; the price of this box set may well convince people not to start GW games. Bear in mind, newcomers are unlikely to stop and add up the individual cost of bits included in the box - they are just going to take a look at the price and think it is quite a hefty chunk of change to lay down for a beginner set. But as always, time will tell.

All I can say is, if I were starting GW games now as a total newcomer, I would be turned off and wouldn't buy GW stuff. Its only because I am fairly invested in GW games that I continue to play now - and I don't buy anything from them any more as it is.

 filbert wrote:

 stubacca wrote:


For a starting force, for a beginner who wants to get playing the game - it is good value, they've put the box set price up £2.50 compared to Black Reach, or the Warhammer game, and considering the prices they've increased the Battleforces, this is alright by GW standards.

All I can say is, if I were starting GW games now as a total newcomer, I would be turned off and wouldn't buy GW stuff. Its only because I am fairly invested in GW games that I continue to play now - and I don't buy anything from them any more as it is.

I think it depends where they go, if they go to a GW store they will get the sales pitch and compare the prices to regular models. I know, I've only been into the hobby for a little over a year, and I got the spiel about buying a Battleforce because it's a little better value for money compared to buying the models individually, which is true.

I totally agree with you that compared to even 2010 the prices for stuff are more than ridiculous, especially with the VAT increase that year and their yearly price increase, but I don't think that £65 is an off-putting price for two armies, and all the basics you'll need - especially only being a few months before Christmas...

The price fits, in my opinion. The fact that the Limited Edition favours the DA's can bug some players, but hey, it's only added value since in a few months that chaplain will sell for a lot.

All in all though, it's ok.

it should have been a LE sorcerer. DA has too much already, 3 HQs is too much

Also, the chaos miniatures look absolutely amazing.

I think that DV is pretty decent value wise. Probably more so if you collect DA or Chaos. Or if you were considering collecting either force.

I do feel Chaos kinda got screwed balance wise though.

As always the mini rulebook is nice and extra dice never go astray.

I'll be buying it. I'll probably nurgle up the Dark Angels, or sell them to a friend. Either way, it's a good way to get more models for my CSM army considering how small it is.

Ummm...

Termies = $50
Cultists (if priced like guards) = $29 for 10 (so x 2)
3 bikes = $30
3 special DA characters in plastic = $30
Hellbrute - $45 (dreadnought)
Chosen - $40 I guess
10 tac marines = $33


$365 of mini's in box + rulebook (35 dollar value imo, less then half the big book) + dice (no value) + templates ($10)

That's $400 for $107. CRAZY insane value in that box. That's what the poll is about, not whether you plan to play them or they have any particular use to you.

YES, amazing value....

@almostreal: Extremely well said! In thinking about the value I gained in other ways by purchasing the box, I totally forgot that you basically buy all of these units at a ridiculous discount (compared to buying them separate at least).

Considering it is meant to be a Starter Kit, it's not likely to hold huge amounts of value for long time players.

It has everything a starter kit needs and is great value for it.

Personally, I will be getting it for
A: Mini Rulebook (screw the templates, I already have too many and bought the fancy lightning bolt ones because they're cool ) and I already have 8000 dice.

B: To bring my Chaos Army from Fabius and the contents of the AOBRs marines, to something reasonable ( the Dark Angels won't stay Dark Angels for long.)

I don't play 40k and have no interest in starting, but the models in that box are a very good value. The only things reducing it is the sheer number of armies that don't get a starter and the limitations of wargear offered in the box.
If there are two things GW does right it's plastic models and starter sets.

Once you realise that you can keep the Chaplain on the sprue and flog it for a fair amount once all the Limited Ed's disappear, the cost suddenly becomes reasonable...

Absolutely perfect value for money. It has very good mini range. A mini rule book which worthy it.
And for the first time the minis cast is beautiful!

 legoburner wrote:
Do you think Dark Vengeance is a good value purchase in your home country?

Yes.

(Although I'm slightly biased as both a DA and Chaos Player.)

Great value for money, I have since built a 2750pt DA army from it and the Chaos will be going towards my Chaos army. I'm happy though they really do need to put in more dice. No where near enough considering you can't even fire all the Tactical Marine bolters with the dice available without re-rolling.

Get a bunch of models for a fraction of the price then paying for them individually should be a selling point for both new and veteran players. Not to mention this is a significant improvement over AoBR because now the models have much different poses, even if some of them are copied twice.

Only problem I could put it is that the SM are molded with DA symbols, which is a good or bad thing depending on your feelings

I think that whilst the box is good value they should have put two different armies in there. You can easily proxy Space Marines for Chaos Space Marines and vice versa with few complaints - I did for 2 years! Also what would have been cool is, like Assault on Black Reach, , to have multi-purpose Marines that you can paint any chapter straight from the box. With DV you can't.

its about right, although the dark angels have the point bias; which isnt a surprise. it would have been cool to see even point values for both sides considering the factions that are in it.

 Gutstuf Ugfang wrote:
its about right, although the dark angels have the point bias; which isnt a surprise. it would have been cool to see even point values for both sides considering the factions that are in it.

It would have been cool to get a starter set where the good guyz aren't biased to win :/ Seriously, Chaos got some gakky units to face those DA.

For what you get, I think the price is about right. If you give the book, dice and templates a value of about $25, then your paying $75 for quite a lot of models.

On the other hand, I think everything else GW sells is overpriced by about 25% or so.

The crazy thing is, I think all the balance needed would have been to make the Libby be a chaos sorcerer. - It wouldn't even have cost GW any more money to do it!

A few thoughts:

As a psuedo new player (I tried to get in years ago but wasn't in the cards, so entering now for the first time) I would point out, you don't just pick up 40k on your own. Someone is trying to convince you to come play with them. That said, you do have a good idea of how much of a value you're getting. You know how much the rulebook is. You know that between the rulebook, the templates, the dice, and the termies alone you've very nearly payed for the whole box.

As a gamer I would point out to you all that the average college student who plays in any game at all throws down this kind of money. A box of Magic the Gathering Booster Packs is more expensive than Dark Vengeance, and other card games, like Yugioh, get even more expensive than that, plus cycle out cards legal for multiple formats every single year, so 40k is actually cheaper in the long run even with the gradually climbing prices, let alone when you factor in something like DV which is this huge of a steal.

Even if you don't run either of the armies, and even if you don't feel like converting either force, and even if you don't find a buyer for any of the models(which if you got the spec ed you should at least be able to find a buyer for the Chaplain)... you can still use them to practice your painting skills, to make a chess set less boring, to use for playing Dungeons and Dragons, etc., etc. Be creative.

Just my two cents.

Asmodai's Joy wrote:A few thoughts:

As a psuedo new player (I tried to get in years ago but wasn't in the cards, so entering now for the first time) I would point out, you don't just pick up 40k on your own. Someone is trying to convince you to come play with them. That said, you do have a good idea of how much of a value you're getting. You know how much the rulebook is. You know that between the rulebook, the templates, the dice, and the termies alone you've very nearly payed for the whole box.

Lots of new players don't have someone else trying to convince them, a large share is people who just spot the store, or the models, think it looks interesting, grab the kit, then go down to the store to play. Seen plenty of kids do it (I was one of them), hell, seen plenty of adults do it this way too.

Also, quite often you're going to need 2 boxes for two people (at least after a while once you're both into it) so that you both have rulebooks.
While if each of you is going to play an army in the box, that's fine, it becomes less special if one or both of you aren't interested in the force(s) there.
Still a decent enough deal for the mini rulebook, templates and such though, even if you just paint / sell on the models

Back when I started, I spotted the game, then decided wanted it, so I got the starter kit and went from there. When I got back into the game, a few years ago after a 3 year hiatus, I bought Assault on Black Reach on my own, and when I was starting fantasy, Island of Blood (though admittedly I eventually gave the High Elves to my fiancee to paint because she thought they look pretty.

As a gamer I would point out to you all that the average college student who plays in any game at all throws down this kind of money. A box of Magic the Gathering Booster Packs is more expensive than Dark Vengeance, and other card games, like Yugioh, get even more expensive than that, plus cycle out cards legal for multiple formats every single year, so 40k is actually cheaper in the long run even with the gradually climbing prices, let alone when you factor in something like DV which is this huge of a steal.

For what it's worth, Competitive MTG is more expensive than Competitive YuGiOh. Though casual YuGiOh is slightly more expensive than casual MTG.

Even if you don't run either of the armies, and even if you don't feel like converting either force, and even if you don't find a buyer for any of the models(which if you got the spec ed you should at least be able to find a buyer for the Chaplain)... you can still use them to practice your painting skills, to make a chess set less boring, to use for playing Dungeons and Dragons, etc., etc. Be creative.

I have a tub with a pretty much untouched collection of AOBR orks simply clipped off the sprue and undercoated.... maybe one day... xD

Just my two cents.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Gutstuf Ugfang wrote:
its about right, although the dark angels have the point bias; which isnt a surprise. it would have been cool to see even point values for both sides considering the factions that are in it.

It would have been cool to get a starter set where the good guyz aren't biased to win :/ Seriously, Chaos got some gakky units to face those DA.

agreed. they still look bad ass though.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Gutstuf Ugfang wrote:
its about right, although the dark angels have the point bias; which isnt a surprise. it would have been cool to see even point values for both sides considering the factions that are in it.

It would have been cool to get a starter set where the good guyz aren't biased to win :/ Seriously, Chaos got some gakky units to face those DA.

That logic assumes boths forces are meant to hulksmash it out against each other, they aren't, they are designed to take a handful of the models at a time in specific little missions and teach new players each aspect of the game, which DV does quite well, the only major unit types it doesn't have in the box are skimmers, flyers and jetbikes and even then they are variations on a theme.

It only really has Infantry, Bike and Walker, in that regards it's probably less good than previous editions.

Out of: Infantry, Bikes, Jetbikes, Eldar Jet Bikes, Artillery, Jump Units, Jet Pack Units, Monstrous Creatures, Beasts, Cavalry, Flying Monstrous Creatures, Characters, Psykers, Transports, Flyers, Chariots, Open-Topped Vehicles, Heavy Vehicles, Fast Vehicles, Skimmers, Walkers and Tanks.

Of which the common / Major types are probably: Infantry, Bikes, Eldar Jet Bikes, Jump Units, Jet Pack Units, Monstrous Creatures, Beasts, Characters, Psykers, Transports, Flyers, Open-Topped Vehicles, Fast Vehicles, Skimmers, Walkers and Tanks.

I don't think it would be that hard to include one of each in a starter pack.

Still - Probably the best value item in GW is the starter kit, and one of the few things probably priced accordingly.

I think it is too high a price for a starter box. Yes, to us gamers we realize it is a good deal for the minis.

But is it? Or does it simply SEEM like a good deal because everything else is so horribly overpriced?

Do you see new players buying it? My FLGS has sold quite a few starters, but only a couple have been sold to new players out of the couple dozen sold.

So, it is a good deal for the minis, but a ridiculous price for a starter set.

I quite liked the Battle for Macragge set. The number of models was not too daunting for a start. You got some scenery and the scenarios were basic yet amusing.

Another good one I think is the Mines of Moria set. Whilst also not containing a full army, you got some very, very nice miniatures (I love Sam and his pot-weapon!). It's also one of the most iconic scenes from the first movie.

My main issue with Dark Vengeance is that the number of models, and the detail on the Chaos ones, would be very daunting for most new players. They should have gone with Macragge-like Marines coupled with a group of, I don't know, something simple to paint with washes like Tyranids, Daemons or Orks. This is because for the new player they can learn to paint something simple with flat colours (the Marines) and learn how to highlight and wash (the monstery creatures).

But that's not the point. I think that, for what you get in the box, DV is quite good value. Compared to my big hardcover rulebook (60 euros when I bought it at the GW in Dublin), the deal is very nice.

Yeah its a good deal all the marine models can be sanded down to make any marine type you play, you can even add some green stuff and make a decent Chaos Army. Buy two sets and you have a standard two army game ready to go, for two player maches. OR add some green stuff and you have a full list. 20 marines of any colt, 10 chosen, 40 cultist, 2 hellbrutes, 10 terminators, 6 bikers, and 6 champs to do whatever with.

Dark Vengeance £65. Singular 6th Edition rule book alone - £50 Simple maths.

The Models are superbly detailed however (like on all GW products) ther is too much extra plastic on the sprues. Surely using less plastic on sprues would mean a cheaper price tag/more models?

Anywhere outside the UK Ihowever and you're talking silly prices.

JTDAquila wrote:


The Models are superbly detailed however (like on all GW products) ther is too much extra plastic on the sprues. Surely using less plastic on sprues would mean a cheaper price tag/more models?

This is GW we're talking 'bout.

JTDAquila wrote:
Dark Vengeance £65. Singular 6th Edition rule book alone - £50 Simple maths.

The Models are superbly detailed however (like on all GW products) ther is too much extra plastic on the sprues. Surely using less plastic on sprues would mean a cheaper price tag/more models?

Anywhere outside the UK Ihowever and you're talking silly prices.

£50?

It's £45 for the hardback book and £61.50 for Dark Vengeance. (The Limited Ed box was £65)

And while not for everyone (and I ended up buying the 6th Hardback (though for £35ish at a 3rd party retailer) it was probably worth the 4 months I wouldn't have been able to play without it) it does have a LOT of extra stuff not in the mini-book (tons of art, history, etc), ultimately containing roughly 1/3 of the content.
Based in this (adjusting slightly for the Hardcover too), we can probably value the Mini-Book at about £18.

And while there's a lot of sprue, I'm not sure how much you can actually cut it down - you need X clearance around each piece so it cools properly, to avoid distortion, etc, you need X amount of vents / injection ports to make sure everything is filled, and X amount of frame to ensure it stays solid and doesn't get wrecked in transit.

I voted yes, but with the caveat that there is nothing contained in the set that I want or need.

Really wish they hadn't made them dark angels, they should have done chaos and then imperial guard or some other non "evil" faction like eldar or tau

I voted yes but reading other comments I realised that Australia is extremely hard done by when it comes to Gw minis.
Here DV is $180 which is the same price for a battleforce but still about $50 too much. Selling as the same price as a battleforce makes it seem great value for money so I will still buy it but maybe from somewhere out of Australia.

You didn't realise it before?

Australia gets fairly well hosed in regards to prices.

I bought Dark Vengeance for £50 because I wanted the thin rulebook.

I am selling the Chaos models and should get £20 for them.

I might sell the Marines and would hope to get another £15 for them, or I'll keep them.

Overall it represents good value for an SM or a Chaos player, or if you are just starting with the game, especially if two people team up and buy two sets and swap the figures to get a bigger army each.

I gotta say all of the miniatures in this set look absolutely amazing! One concern is that the point values were far from equal, chaos does get six chosen and some meaty cultists, but the box set doesn't really have a back bone for chaos.

In comparison with other Games Workshop products, it's a decent value at best. However, if you look at other games manufacturers' introduction sets, like FoW, Dark Vengeance is skimpy and lacking.

They're basically like all the other boxed sets, I don't know what I'd do with all the Dark Angels (put with the rest of the space marines maybe?). But decent value.

I think compared to other GW prices that its a good value. I just paint for now so as far as keeping me busy it's a good value. You get the rule book and a bunch of figures for like 25 bucks more then just buying the rule book.

Yes. The starter box sets are the one thing that is still a good deal from GW.

DV is great value for monies and the minis look great

I agree its a good price if you take it at its "actual" price, that is if you shop around for a 30% off vendor making it $70 or 35 a side plus rule book (a $10-15 value alone). Now if you just look at the DA side this is what your getting for $35.

1 captian
1 librarian
5 terminators
10 tacticals (with plasma cannon and the ever so popular plasma gun!)
3 raven wing bikers

averaging to about $1.75 a model...which is amazing

On to Chaos:

1 Lord
6 chosen
20 cultist
1 Helbrute

averaging to about $1.25 a model....I mean the resale thing on this alone is amazing, making it cheaper would have been nuts (in a good way I wish it was cheaper, then again I wish everything from GW was cheaper....)

The models look amazing compared to previous sets like this (ie: macragge and black reach) and you get a ton of models, what 43 or something? all for around 100 bucks, that one helluva deal, even if you don't play either, you've gotta admit it's a sweet set.

I think Black Reach was a better deal only because the models were generic.

Macragge was awful.

I think it is a decent value, however, Black Reach was a way better deal.

I chose "too expensive for what you get" - purely because I don't have either army and loathe the excessive iconography on GW models anyway.

Had I played either army, I might have chosen the 2nd option. I don't and won't so we'll never know.

As far as GW products go, I'd have to say it's quite a good deal (and I like the sculpts quite a bit, from what I've seen). It's nice that they included an HQ for each army, too. I do think it'd be better if the Starter set included 100% legal armies, and they should be balanced, but compared to previous GW offerings, this is actually pretty damn good.

In terms of how much the models would cost to buy separately vs how much the box costs, it's unquestionably a good deal.

The miniatures' quality, which seems to have jumped, the inclusion of useful wargear (all that plasma), psykers, and the cool new Chaos units add great value.

I've always found the GW starter kits to be pretty good value, but the improvement from the standard static poses of AoBR to well-detailed, interesting figures make me quite pleased.

It would have been nice if the DA iconography weren't so sculpted on, that Chaplain would have been great for my Blood Angels, but it's not that bad.

Just going to say something:

The Hail Caesar starter box by Warlord Games gives you:
30 Imperial Roman legionaries
60 Celtic Warriors
1 Scorpion Catapult with the crew
The full rulebook
For 60 pounds. 91 miniatures!

Dark Vengeance features:
A Company Master
Librarian
5-man Deathwing Squad
10 Tactical Marines
3 Ravenwing bikes
Chaos Lord
6 Chosen
1 Hellbrute
20 Chosen
For 61.50 pounds. For 48 miniatures.

Don't tell me that the Hail Caesar models aren't detailed:


Though I'll admit that the DV models are more detailed.

But think about it for a second. They're the same scale. You get far more miniatures in the HC box. You get the full HC rulebook.

For GW, then DV probably is great value, but not if you look at other company's offerings.

EDIT: Gosh, I sound like I work for Warlord Games or something!

An Apple is more expensive than a windows pc despite it being just as good.

You pay for the product and the brand, that's why GW is more expensive. GW wants to be the apple of wargaming and they are pretty damn-well close.

 Sigvatr wrote:
An Apple is more expensive than a windows pc despite it being just as good.

You pay for the product and the brand, that's why GW is more expensive. GW wants to be the apple of wargaming and they are pretty damn-well close.

Actually, MACs are often worse, as they can't do quite as much, on top of costing 3-6 times more than the equivalent PC

GW is expensive though, and really pushing too-expensive these days... the starter kit is acceptable value, as is a few things... but yeeeah...

I think it's a good deal. Good way to kick-start an army or two. I do think that Chaos got the short end of the stick with the contents, but that's sort of how it always goes.

My main beef is with the mini rulebook. Dark Vengeance is a starter set made to introduce people to the game. Shouldn't there be a hobby section in it?

 Ovion wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
An Apple is more expensive than a windows pc despite it being just as good.

You pay for the product and the brand, that's why GW is more expensive. GW wants to be the apple of wargaming and they are pretty damn-well close.

Actually, MACs are often worse, as they can't do quite as much, on top of costing 3-6 times more than the equivalent PC

GW is expensive though, and really pushing too-expensive these days... the starter kit is acceptable value, as is a few things... but yeeeah...

Macs do one thing far, far better than PCs though - they actually work

Oh god, this is turning into a FANBOI discussion.... Macs vs Windows is almost as bad as arguing about religion on a forum...

I thought times had moved on to become Apple Vs Android.

Its great value if you have one of the armies in the pack.
However, I think the armies in the pack are to rigid. With AOBR, the space marines were just basic troopers. Get some shoulder pads or bits, and you can make them into another chapter. These new space marines (dark angels), have so many wings and robes and crap on them, they're basically unusable for any other chapter of space marines.

So no, I don't think DV is a good buy.

As a set on its own, it is one helluva deal. As a starter to 40k in general, not so great because it's either DA or Chaos. But I am glad to see GW changing their Mary Sue to DA instead of Ultrasmurf and Grog Knights. I actually liked Macragge though, since it came with scenery and Lt. Varras, who is a cool mini and I still have him to this day. His face is a bit blobby, but still cool as hell! And it was quite worth it, you got 35 minis plus scenery for 50 dollars. 50 dollars now will get you only 5 terminators.

Even locally I think DV is a pretty good deal (lol @ Aussies complaining about prices, come to NZ then maybe you can talk)

Once I sell what I don't need from the kit I'm left with 700 odd points of Chaos, rulebook, templates for about NZD80. Not bad at all

It's a great value. When Black Reach was first released,. It was under-priced, and it impacted GWs overall sales. You were better off as a SM or Ork player to get 2 or 3 of those box sets then to buy other stuff. Sure the model posses would be repetitive, but does that really bother when you factor how much you spent? And THEN if you were only collecting one army, you could easily (and many people did) sell the other side piece meal for MORE then what you paid for the box, the choppers in particular when it first came out.

So I completely understand why GW would raise prices on box sets like this. I got mine for $80. That is a LOT of models for $80. Does that 9% REALLY feel like they are getting ripped off? Or are they just bitter that they don't want DA markings on their marines (Most of which can be clipped or filed off) and would rather of had DE or something versus Chaos?

The major point is that the previous product was under-priced, people abused it (at least state-side, as after about a month, it jumped up to what DV is priced at now), and so GW reacted when they realized they're profits were about to be impacted severely. They put DA in the set instead of generic Marines so people were less likely to buy 2-3 boxes again. Some of the DA players probably did, but if you were a DA player, you could have bought lots of the last one anyway. Shoot, between the two, the DA players have a fully functioning army at this point.

I will probably buy every box set like this if it stays at a similar price against inflation, keep what I want, and give the rest to friends and such (if they are already in the hobby, charge them. If this is their first taste, give them a free sample )

 bibblles wrote:
Its great value if you have one of the armies in the pack.
However, I think the armies in the pack are to rigid. With AOBR, the space marines were just basic troopers. Get some shoulder pads or bits, and you can make them into another chapter. These new space marines (dark angels), have so many wings and robes and crap on them, they're basically unusable for any other chapter of space marines.

So no, I don't think DV is a good buy.

Not necessarily, the iconography works good with blood ravens, just paint the DA crest blade BR red and the hilt and wings black, and you have a nice looking blood ravens crest, while still getting a good deal. So generaly in the P&M side of the SM, YMMV.

Value wise, for a space marine army looking for a BIG boost and not having lots of money (and to boot living with a CSM brother), this set was a God send: split the cost, and he and I get lots of models, which also balanced the armies out (comparing to me having 2 5-man tacs and 1 captain, to him having a termie-khorne lord with 12 'zerkers).

That's how I've been fiddling my Blood Ravens... Combining the DA and BA models together. No Free-handing required!

Hopelly my DA ravenwing models will look as awesome as I'm imagining.

I still haven't decided how to do my Nephilim-into-a-storm-talon paintjob. It can be either:

1) All red, with black wing detail things.
2) Bone wings, black wing details, red fuselage.
3) All bone, black wing details, horrible attempt at a free hand 'blood drop' on the fuselage.

Chaos got the short end of the stick regarding the contents, but damn the cultist are cool!

I loved the DA in that they finally gave you some decent options on the Marines instead of things that are rarely taken.

Plasma options on the Tacticals instead of Flamer/Missile was nice to see. The combi-weapon on HQ was nice to see as well. And they also did a great job with the Dark Angels livery on the models.

The Cultists were amazing sculpts and I see them played by almost everybody using CSM in my local club area. I think the only thing I wasn't impressed with was the Hellbrute, but that was mostly because of its rules.

I think the changes to the starter are getting better. Better tutorial, mimi campaign, more figs especially exclusive ones. Also, my home store sells it at cost to lure people in to start the hobby. Letting locals either get in or make a prifit

It definately is when you compare it to the price of buying the BRB. The BRB by itself is something rediculous like $120AUD while the DV box set is about $160AUD. You are also given hundreds of dollars worth of miniatures. A good deal in my books.

Its good value for money. Too bad GW aren't as fair in all their pricing.

when you consider that its cheaper than the brb at the hobby store i go to, then Yes its a very good value

Well it is pretty good even I didn't buy it
There are terminators and many more

Some of the molds for the minis are lower quality however.

 Jackal wrote:

The way the hellbrutes designed its easy to change the posing of head, arms and legs,
so multiple of them isnt an issue. (want 3+ of them).

Must be different hellbrute to what I've seen then.

 Largeblastmarker wrote:
Some of the molds for the minis are much lower quality however.

There I fixed that for you.

Black reach was far better.

I think there is not enough Choas and too much DA.

I think this set is certainly worth the dollars, very much unlike many GW products.

I think DV is a pretty great beginner's box set, I don't personally play either army, but soem of the models look really nice.
Far better in terms of the variety of poses than Black Reach (I have 60 of the Black Reach Boyz, it's pretty horrible.)

 loki old fart wrote:

 Jackal wrote:

The way the hellbrutes designed its easy to change the posing of head, arms and legs,
so multiple of them isnt an issue. (want 3+ of them).

Must be different hellbrute to what I've seen then.

Haha yeah IKR, it's unfortunately pretty limited.

I'd rather buy a Chaos Battleforce.

The contents of the box are nice. I feel that this boxed set is not a complete game. It provides you with two unbalanced forces. It has some cute mission type things, but really is just an exercise on trying to imagine what playing 40k could be like. There is no terrain at all. No objectives at all. It's just a primer to buy more stuff. Now Dead Zone....that is a starter set. Dark Vengeance Miniatures are great and you get the most useful rulebook produced for 40k, but I can't base the value versus other 40k stuff. I have to make my judgement based on other starter sets and this one is crap. It forces you to either make terrain yourself (a practice that GW does not condone) or use household items for terrain, unless you buy more stuff. So...how useful are those cultists without cover? It just seems like the box should be called Dark Raping, a story of Dark Angels murdering the gak out of a small chaos force....and if you buy the limited, it is even more outrageously unbalanced. A good value for people who already own almost everything else for 40k. A gak value for anyone trying to start playing as this will only lead to them spending hundreds more and I am too good a person to convince someone that it is somehow worth the price. In fact, this game is such a money pit, that I would not attempt to convince any of my friends who don't make at least 40k a year to start playing. On the other hand, it is an excellent value for people who wish to play as The Fallen, in which case, this is an awesome army starter. This and the Cypher dataslate is all you need.

I feel that a starter box schould contain the core rulebook and two at least point-equal armies.
Or the Core book, one codex and one army (but with starter kits for all armies available, obviously).
As far as I could see it, the DV boxes - just like Aobr before - were mostly bought as cheaper battleboxes by existing players and not as starter kits for new players.

I like the Dark Vengeance. It's got good models in it, a mini rulebook, and everything else you need to play, so yes it' a really good deal. The only thing would be some more dice in there and maybe a tape measurerer

I think its decent for the money. defiantly a easy way to start an army or 2. Or split the box with a buddy!! Personally I was a bigger fan of the AOBR box, mainly cuz I play orks Bahaha!

$50 per person for 2 armies with gorgeous models, mini-rulebook, some dice, is very nice.

The extra stuff you'd need to paint and play a "legal" game was an unpleasant supprise however...

I think that, when you compare the set to other GW products, DV represents excellent value for money.

However, when you think of it for what it is, I think it is the same as all other releases by GW - woefully overpriced

Two friends of mine, that play Dark Angels and Chaos respectively, have gone halvesies on Dark Vengeance four or five times. I've even considered picking up a box as well for the terminators and bikes. I don't play dark angels but with some snippers and a file I could have those icons off in short order and just sell or trade off the rest.

In terms of value, it's actually a pretty good deal for the rules and the models.

In terms of it functioning as a starter set, it's hopelessly unbalanced. Chaos should have gotten a Winged Daemon Prince instead of a Helbrute. That would have fixed a lot of the balance problems right off the bat.

I bought a box of DV for $75 free shipping on ebay. Sold the units individually on ebay and made $40

I wouldn't do it again, just an experiment. Definitely the space marines in the pack sell quick between $40-$50 I sold the book for $25. I didn't do so hot on the chaos but the cultist were a hit with my buyer.

Nah, I think the Helbrute is fine, you needed a vehicle in the starter set.

But I did end up working out that the starter set is nearly perfectly balanced if you make it a Chaos Sorcerer instead of a Librarian. - An incredibly simple, easy fix.

 Commander_Nightflier wrote:
when you consider that its cheaper than the brb at the hobby store i go to, then Yes its a very good value

Except of course the brb is hugely overpriced.m

Now I think it's great value, ($160 Australian Dollar) I think it's a good starter kit, although "batteries" would be nice. Sprue cutters, paint, paint brushes etc... at only a small extra cost. I think a negative would be that it might scare beginners off, with the price. If I didn't already buy the tactical and terminator squad, I'd probably be saving up for it.

I look at it this way. If you're interested in the new Hellbrute Data-slates as units. Buy one of the new Hellbrute kits, then buy up DV sets to get cheap Hellbrutes. Sell off the stuff you don't want, when a new Hellbrute goes for $50 US, you can get one to get the weapon options to put on all of your DV Hellbrutes PLUS you get the rest of the box to either use or Sell off to make up the difference. My guess is you'll come out ahead.

I think it is good value for what it is but wish it came with proper models and not snap fit style.

The box is aimed of course at new players so the snap fit is fine for them but for people already invested in the game when the 6th ed came out we where looking at either spending 65 quid on Vengeance and getting a bundle of cool looking but static minis with the new rules etc or spending a straight 45 on the new rulebook.

I would rather spend 20 more but get proper multi part minis and then use them to bulk out my marine army/have loads of new bits for the bits box/start a chaos army.

My first and only starter box was the 3rd ed Dark Eldar and Marine box, with which you got - a proper multi part Tactical squad, a multi park landspeeder. 20 Dark Eldar Warriors (the most unbalanced box set ever I think... The only way the DE could take out the LS was with S4 splinter cannons of which only 4 models could have them from the 20 and that needed 6 then 4 or 6 to glance and destroy!) plus the full size rule book, a bunch of dice, painting guide and a set of rather nice looking ruins.

Everything in that box stayed on my mini shelf and was used in games till I sold everything years later. The new marines just don't fit unless I want a DA army.

Compared to other companies miniature games in box form, NO, not a good deal.
For those that say the miniatures are a good deal, toys are much cheaper at Toys R Us, as well as other companies models (since no one supports "GW only" anymore) and the models included are not necessarily good, or used by players in the larger version of 40k, except maybe the Cultists.
.
If you want models from DV, you can buy them seperately from various sellers for cheap. (DV bikes go for about $18 for three, vs $41.25 from GW direct)
.
DV presents itself as the larger version of 40k, but DV is not.
DV is not a complete game, as HUNDREDS of DOLLARS worth of MORE models are needed to play the larger game of 40k.
DV models need more rule books to play the larger version of 40k (Codices needed; Dark Angels $49.50, Chaos Space Marines $50, Crimson Slaughter $49.50, Black Legion $49.50)
DV includes no terrain (or mat), so players will have to buy some.
DV rules are not updated or supported.
DV mini Rulebook is glossy, and has tiny print, difficult for even a person with 20/20 vision to read in perfect light.
DV is not meant to be a stand alone skirmish game, nor does it play that way.
DV is not a fair game with the models included.
DV models, for the most part, are not used in the larger game of 40k.
DV models are static, and a difficult for a beginner or veteran modeler to change poses.
etc.
.
So, really not a good deal any way you look at it.

I got it yesterday and im converting all the DA to CSM