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Post by: simplexcity
So!
how awesome is the new white dwarf!!!
my god the quality is so much better and the doc itself is way thicker and heaver! overglossed cover. mmmmmm FOLD OUT PAGES
The new lighting in some of the photography is terrific! not to mention the amazing new minis and codex art coming up for chaos!!
anyways im very impressed.... even tho im a bit sad to see old masthead go.... i love that shiny steel....
Im very inspired by that kit bashing section. im an ork player and i cant wait to convert som bombers after seeing that
text removed. We can do better than this please. Thanks, Reds8n
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Post by: snurl
Its about bloody time. I binned the last two.
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Post by: Ross74H
hum, will be getting this at the weekend then!
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Post by: wowsmash
How much does it cost though. I'm sure they raised the price. The place near me that sells them keeps them sealed so I can't leaf through it and see if it's worth it to buy or not. Would deffinately be interested to hear if it's improved or not.
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Post by: avedominusnox
Ye can you provide the price please?
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Post by: Valkyrie
From what I've heard this new one is £5.50, although I've heard that this price is a one-off just for this month's copy...
...Bazinga!
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Post by: Brother SRM
I think it was a 1 dollar/GBP/Euro price rise all around. Looking forward to the mag, since the Dark Vengeance issue's "battle reports" are less in-depth than the pages explaining the scenarios in the starter set.
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Post by: kronk
I'm swinging by my FLGS this weekend and see if they have it.
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Post by: scarletsquig
£5.50? Bugger that.
I'll flick through it in Smiths as usual. 
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Post by: Harriticus
Pisses me off that the codex art there isn't even original. Cover to the novel Blood Gorgons.
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Post by: pretre
We've already got a thread on the changes to WD in N&R.
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Post by: reds8n
Which will be closed soon as the issue in question will be freely available, so we'll leave this one open for people to comment on the new format. 
20774
Post by: pretre
In which case, I will chirp in and say how cool the Blood Gorgon artwork looks! 
42149
Post by: MightyGodzilla
I honestly can't tell if the OP is being facetious or not. Guess I'll have to head over to the FLGS to see. Mission accomplished, i guess?
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Post by: OverwatchCNC
 pretre wrote:In which case, I will chirp in and say how cool the Blood Gorgon artwork looks!
If it is a choice between reusing the awesome Blood Gorgon artwork or getting a new cover that looks like the cover of the BA codex I will go with reused thank you very much. That cover looks better than even the Space Wolf cover, and the SW one was imo the best of 5th.
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Post by: BrassScorpion
New cover price is $10 US. That's a $1 increase.
GW just posted this today:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=4300022
A new era is upon us; the new White Dwarf is almost here! Tomorrow sees the release of the redesigned and relaunched White Dwarf, and we thought we'd give you a sneak peek of the October issue. As you can see, the cover is dominated by a particularly large and intimidating mechanical creature, but you'll have to wait until tomorrow to find out exactly what it is...
White Dwarf will be available from all our Hobby Centres and many independent stockists tomorrow morning and includes articles on the Chaos Space Marines, the Horus Heresy and all the latest news from Citadel, Forge World and the Black Library. There's even a rather superb poster included within, which features artwork from the first Horus Heresy book - Betrayal.
Remember, all nine of us from the White Dwarf team will be at Games Day UK on Sunday, so make sure to pay us a visit at our stand. Jes has also mentioned that he'll be at Warhammer World tomorrow, so if you happen to be around our flagship store around 11am then why not take the opportunity to chat with him about the new magazine.
From Dropzone Games:
https://www.facebook.com/DropZoneGames
Ok kiddos! We have the new White Dwarf in stock!
1st it's pretty awesome!
2nd its freakin huge!
3rd its more magazine less GW Ad campaign!
4th it got a bloody ton of stuff in it!
5th it's now $10
6th We can't sell it until tomorrow because of a "friendly" OR ELSE! letter received yesterday so please don't ask.
7th we have a limited quantity in stock.
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Post by: Miss Dee
£5.50 Hummm do I stop ???
18410
Post by: filbert
Lucky for me I have an existing sub. I wouldn't pay £5 for it, no matter what the improvements....
35006
Post by: Medium of Death
I think £5 is not a bad price if the content/quality is brought up.
The most interesting thing will be seeing whether or not they keep it at this new found quality. I'll pick this up after work tomorrow, methinks.
61310
Post by: Rainbow Dash
I'll still convert all my chaos like I did before
17916
Post by: Miss Dee
Should of got a subscription lastmonth
55770
Post by: jwhitehead333
The digital subscription on the ipad is $69.99 for 12 months and $8.99 for a single issue. This is allot cheaper then what it normally sells at in Australia. Im happy, downloading the new issue now.
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Post by: Harriticus
My thoughts:
Given the size/quality of the magazine, the price isn't all that unreasonable (though GW has probably just desensitized us).
Overall it feels like the same magazine however. There are 2 notable improvements, Battle Reports are more detailed (picture-by-picture phases and what not) and the painting guides have step by step, though still simply listing what paints to use for what parts instead of any general advice.
You can tell GW wanted to tout the new length without any real serious desire to expand it to the corresponding length. The last 20 pages or so are a list of locations/phone numbers for every GW store and a "recap" of what was in the magazine (aka a table of contents at the end).
It's very disorganized at certain parts. You have the general, broad "new products then black library then battle reports then least important stuff" structure, but it's very cluttered. At least 3 different parts of the magazine have stuff related to black library, there's stuff about Horus Heresy Forgeworld at both the start at the end. Interviews and people giving their opinions on new developments throughout.
No independent fluff excerpts, which bummed me as a fluff-first guy.
Lastly, far, far more pictures of models. Though again since the overall magazine is larger and many of them are independent armies as opposed to GW catalog products it gets more tolerable.
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Post by: MeanGreenStompa
So, no new articles then? No Stillmania or Chapter Approved new rules or fluff articles or interesting fun things that are free?
It's just re-detailed the battle report and listed the paints used in painting?
That's it?!?
20 pages of store listings????
37755
Post by: Harriticus
 MeanGreenStompa wrote:So, no new articles then? No Stillmania or Chapter Approved new rules or fluff articles or interesting fun things that are free?
It's just re-detailed the battle report and listed the paints used in painting?
No new fluff things correct. Lots of advertising for Black Library/Forge World and this fills out most of the new length along with pictures of peoples armies.
There's lots of interviews and comments with GW/ FW affiliated people.
That's it?!?
20 pages of store listings????
10 pages to be exact is a list of every GW store with contact information. Basically a phonebook section.
There's a free Angron poster though...
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Post by: spaceelf
In the previous thread someone commented that the font size is larger, and thus there really isn't any more text than previous WDs. Does anyone have the financial resources and free time to confirm the statement?
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Post by: Byte
Looking forward to getting mine.
37034
Post by: Marine_With_Heart
I just love the pricing XD it went from 11.95 to 12 dollars here in Aus XD for once.... Thank you GW for this miniscule price rise lol
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Post by: Scouseboy
Anyone seen the digital version yet? The announcement went up on the GW site at midnight UK time... when does the app store update?
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=22200010a
Cheers!
Craig
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Post by: wolf40k
Since Apple's HQ is in California I'm guessing midnight Pacific Time, 8 hours after UK time.
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Post by: Scouseboy
 wolf40k wrote:
Since Apple's HQ is in California I'm guessing midnight Pacific Time, 8 hours after UK time.
Nope, it's now available in the store, appeared around 1.20am UK time. Woot.
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Post by: jwhitehead333
If anyone's interested, the digital version is quite well set out. It looks very nice. It is mildly interactive, it doesn't have the big 'phone book' section listing all of GW's stores and it's $3 cheaper then the normal version (in Australia anyway)
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Post by: BrassScorpion
The new subscription price for 1 year will be $100 US! I just found this out tonight from GW. OUCH. I may be letting that subscription lapse when it ends after this issue. Will be the first time in 2 decades I'll go without it, but $100 is nuts even for the "new" White Dwarf.
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Post by: tdwg83
US price is 7.99 for digital. 1 year is 64.99
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Post by: BrassScorpion
I'm talking about the print. It's $10 per issue cover price, $100 per year subscription. The current cover price before the rise this month is $9.00 per issue and $75 per year. Links: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=&prodId=prod1740017a http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=&prodId=prod1740009a This is the only thing that gives me a little thought to resubscribing since I'm lucky enough to have a store near me. (Also remember we provide an in-store subscription deal where you subscribe for 12 issues and pay for 8 - pop into your local Games Workshop store for more details.)
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Post by: simplexcity
 MightyGodzilla wrote:I honestly can't tell if the OP is being facetious or not. Guess I'll have to head over to the FLGS to see. Mission accomplished, i guess?
sorry i totaly wasnt. i liked it. def worth the money i paid. it was a dollar more than normal iirc... i cant remember tho tbh, its pretty cheap for sumthing i only get once a month
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Post by: tdwg83
Yeah, I got that. The point is the iPad version is actually cheaper. As I actually have an iPad, is the up charge worth it for a physical version. I was actually surprised at the price being cheaper especially looking at how GW has priced their other digital content. 80 for a in store subscription wouldn't be too bad.
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Post by: The Dwarf Wolf
Now, if i had an Ipad, i would consider getting that subscribe. But I doubt i cannot found better hobby material in the internet anyway...
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Post by: jgemrich
2am east in the US and I picked up the digital version. $65 for subscription? Yes please. 345MB wow.
Good stuff. Wish I could change the print size and I wish the painting examples were more like the downloadable how to paint guides. Otherwise I really liked it.
I'm critical of the new photos of the minis with the red lighting. To me it really detracts from the detail and paint jobs...I'd rather see them on white background.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
I'll check it out. This will be my first WD in over 5 years.
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Post by: simplexcity
 jgemrich wrote:2am east in the US and I picked up the digital version. $65 for subscription? Yes please. 345MB wow.
Good stuff. Wish I could change the print size and I wish the painting examples were more like the downloadable how to paint guides. Otherwise I really liked it.
I'm critical of the new photos of the minis with the red lighting. To me it really detracts from the detail and paint jobs...I'd rather see them on white background.
yeah i do know what you mean about the red lighting. but i really love it and it seems they have only used it sparingly in certain places.
there are still some regular pics on plain backgrounds and ones that are setup on a battlefield with the backdrop.
i would almost be keen on a digital subscription but i just love printed books too much, and the stock/weight & quality is really nice.
also, all the new chaos stuff just went up on the GW website!!!
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Post by: Lovepug13
I read it and thought it was meh. No new rules or experimental stuff, no scenarios....not like white dwarf of old. I still wont buy it (just my thoughts not trolling)
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Post by: angelshade00
That's the new WD cover? Reminds me of old magazines...
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Post by: alanmckenzie
 Harriticus wrote:
There are 2 notable improvements, Battle Reports are more detailed (picture-by-picture phases and what not)
Not seen it yet yet, but I'm delighted about this. Compared with the mid 90's battle reports, the recent ones have barely been worth printing.
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Post by: SagesStone
I'm still a bit sceptical of it. Might grab the new one, but I feel at the moment I'll just end up regretting it and go back to not bothering with them. Well when I'm not required to keep playing one of my armies... -.-
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Post by: Grot 6
 BrassScorpion wrote:The new subscription price for 1 year will be $100 US! I just found this out tonight from GW. OUCH. I may be letting that subscription lapse when it ends after this issue. Will be the first time in 2 decades I'll go without it, but $100 is nuts even for the "new" White Dwarf.
Any boxed sets coming with that subscription? How about some LE minis in recognition of the new mag?
No?
Pfft..... typical GW being GW. "OH LOOK!!!...... nothing new! Gimme, Gimme, Gimme, MORE your munnies!!!" 
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Post by: Winter
For those complaining about the subscription deal, there is another deal that they have, not sure if it will be continuous.
However if you go into one of the stores, you can pay for 12 editions for the price of 8, so it would be $80 for americans, and basically they give you voucher style things that you then redeem for an edition, allowing you to skip editions as well.
Not sure if only GW stores will be taking it, but seems pretty cool, and drops the price again.
Quote from their site
Also remember we provide an in-store subscription deal where you subscribe for 12 issues and pay for 8 - pop into your local Games Workshop store for more details.
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Post by: marv335
I think that will be a standard deal, the online digital subscription gives you 4 issues free if you sign up.
I've downloaded the iPad version, and I'm quite impressed. the 360 pictures are nice and zooming into the new pictures to get a close look at detail is a handy feature.
I'm not too enthused about the price, but all magazines are expensive these days, even more so out in Saudi, if you can get them (and I've never seen WD out here)
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Post by: liquidjoshi
I thought it was good, certainly an improvement from the old WD.
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Post by: filbert
It was OK - I can see glimmers of improvement. I don't think there is any more or less content than previous issues. Yes, the mag has more pages now but this is tempered by the larger font size and slightly smaller page size being used now. They still have the hugely bloated and redundant section detailing every GW stockist in the world for some bizarre reason. They also spent roughly 50 pages of this month's issue detailing the new releases which seemed slight overkill to me. They still insist in giving space to Jervis Johnson, who this month tried convincing us that they removed force restrictions so that people could collect what they want rather than to sell more models (which I think is actually the primary driver behind it). Jervis also let slip that his vision of GW is as a seller of collectible models; Jervis is of the opinion that collection comes first and everything else (painting, gaming) comes secondary to that. Interesting viewpoint but it ties in with the upper echelon aim of selling toys first and rules as a poor relation - kind of explains some of the direction that the GW games have taken recently; as a driver of model sales rather than tight rulesets.
On the plus size, the quality of the print media seems better and I think the design aesthetic is good - I quite like the retro, 'back to basics' look of it all. The battle report seemed OK and well laid out; plenty of pics and photos (although I wish they would include some of the overhead map/graphics things that show movement, hits, kills that sort of thing. Also, I have an existing sub so can continue to pay the old direct debit price (I assume until such time as I cancel?) rather than the new cover price. I am not sure I would pay £5+ for it if I wasn't already subbed - it wasn't that good, it is still a glossy catalogue but you can see they are trying, so credit to them for that. Hopefully this marks a return to form once the new team settles in.
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Post by: Compel
I'm surprised noone has mentioned the new 'The Rivals' column yet.
It's only 6 pages, but it's actual tournament armies (Dark Elves and Vampires), includes tactics and their thoughts on their army selection, followed by a mini battle report.
There's also a good two page 'Angron: Genesis of a Primarch' article, which is kinda neat too.
Finally, don't dismiss the last handful of pages there are actually some proper articles in there (This month in the design studio) that are fairly interesting, if not a bit randomly placed.
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Post by: Scouseboy
Am I correct in saying that in the US and Australia, there is a price difference between more expensive paper versions and the cheaper digital version? Like, a couple of dollars? Because there's a difference in price in the UK versions of one whole penny, likely to mirror the usual £x.x9 price rhetoric in the app store.
Gotta say, if other countries get a not-insignificant digital price reduction and the UK doesn't, I'll be proper fuming.
Cheers!
Craig
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Post by: BrotherGnaeus
so Awesome
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Post by: spaceelf
 Scouseboy wrote:Am I correct in saying that in the US and Australia, there is a price difference between more expensive paper versions and the cheaper digital version? Like, a couple of dollars? Because there's a difference in price in the UK versions of one whole penny, likely to mirror the usual £x.x9 price rhetoric in the app store.
Gotta say, if other countries get a not-insignificant digital price reduction and the UK doesn't, I'll be proper fuming.
Cheers!
Craig
I think the digital version is more expensive in the UK, because of UK taxes on books. I have heard that ebooks in the UK have the same taxes as regular books. From what I heard the book tax has something to do with compensation to authors for having books freely available in libraries.
Even at the cheaper price, I think that the digital version is a terrible deal. It lacks on one of the only improvements in the mag, the new paper. If GW was smart they would give the digital version away for free, like Heavy Gear does, or sell it for a buck. (For those of you who have not seen it, check out an issue of GearUp. They have experimental rules, stories, illustrations, etc., like a proper mag should have.)
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Post by: Compel
That doesn't sound right...
Although, I think you are broadly on the right lines.
EG, "The Uk does not charge VAT on books, however, Ebooks are a digital product and therefore, VAT is charged as normal."
This seems to agree with this The Bookseller. Com
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Post by: Redbeard
jgemrich wrote:$65 for subscription? Yes please.
I've got "digital subscriptions" to a couple of other magazines, such as Premier Guitar. They're free. Normal magazines make most of their money on adverts. The issue cost is really the cost of producing a physical copy, as the content cost is covered by the adverts. These adverts exist in the digital version, and so without a production cost, the digital copy can be given away for free.
Except GW. GW doesn't take outside advertisers. Even though half the magazine is adverts, it's all adverts for their own stuff, so they make no money here. Hence, you're paying for content and production. This explains why you're paying nearly twice the industry standard for a magazine, and considerably more than industry standard for a digital copy.
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Post by: kitch102
Just got my copy through the door this morning, and I gotta say it looks stunning. The content has much improved too, no doubt further improvements could still be made (get rid of the 10 pages of store info for a start and replace it with more articles on terrain building, kit bashing, painting guides, battle reports, competitions and I'll be very happy) though for the first issue in a new line up it's a good start.
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Post by: finnan
Just finished looking through my copy.
Not overly blown away, I have to admit.
The Plusses: (and bear in mind that I'm a graphic designer, so I'm likely to be both picky and nerdy)
- nice paper. Feels really nice. Thicker too.
- like the spot varnish on the cover
- liking the gatefold pages (even if they seemed a bit redundant and only there to wow the masses)
- overall aesthetic was okay, but not exactly revolutionary.
- I *think* I like the new masthead, but having said that I think it may be a bit flat in that dark yellow.
- NO WHITE BACKGROUND ON THE COVER. Hallelujah! Praise be to the designer who convinced them to change to a coloured background. Huge improvement
The Minuses:
- odd layout on the cover with the blurb nest to the masthead. What's with all the space to the right? Really distracting.
- having the gatefold pages so near the front makes it hard to flick through (yes, I know that's a VERY picky comment)
- it really bugs me that they have three fonts for no good reason. Font 1: titles. Not bad, I think I like it... maybe.
Font 2: body text. Not bad, I like it.
Font 3: for describing the photos. Really distracting! And the numerals are far too heavy next to the photos. Why not just stick to two fonts??!! (insane graphic designer moment there - apologies)
- photos of miniatures - why on earth use a red spotlight on them? It gives them a weird red highlight... And way too much dead, empty space around the miniature.
- battle report photos - ? I was totally distracted by the players (hamming it up) in the shots , and the others just seemed really confusing. Having said that, I haven't read the report yet, so it might make more sense when/if I do.
- while I do like consistency in design, the red and black throughout the whole magazine for the titles got a bit dull. Have different colour identifiers for each article!
- content: was there any difference? I didn't notice much. The kitbashing was welcome, but skimmed the surface and barely told you how to do it, but neglected to give any step by step guidance.
- 'Paint Splatter' "Paint Splatter contains a wealth of handy painting tips and ideas to inspire your own hobby. From techniques we've been using this month, to which colours are used on the Studio miniatures seen elsewhere in this issue , there's painting advice for everyone."
Really? I must have the wrong magazine then. The are NO painting tips here at all, only colour swatches and pictures, but NO EXPLANATION on how to DO the techniques shown. I think this is appalling. They're wasted pages and arrogant and lazy. They don't help ANY hobbyist trying to figure out what's been done on the miniatures shown. What a waste! >rant<
The warpstone 'tutorial' shows six steps. The first two seem COMPLETELY pointless to me!
- back cover - total waste
- random painting of Gandalf? wtf?
To be honest, the ONLY thing that sold me was the inclusion of some Jes Goodwin design sketches towards the back - why weren't they at the FRONT???
I do NOT see any major improvement in content. The redesign is okay, but not stunning, and it's mostly smoke and mirrors. The guys at the store valiantly tried to give me the subscription speech, but eventually gave up when they saw I was plainly not interested.
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Post by: Bonde
I just thought that this would be worth noting with all the talk about price increases. Here in Denmark, WD still costs the same as it used to (60DKK), so all I got was a rise in quality compared to what it used to be. I already kinda liked WD (because I have never experienced the glory of the older mags), so I think this is a pretty good deal, and I will definately be picking up the new issue on monday.
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Post by: Flashman
I'm glad there are a few people seeing past the "Emperor's New Clothes" effect and highlighting that aside from looking pretty, not much has changed.
GW has entered a really cynical phase of wanting you to pay for everything separately, so that means no decent painting articles because they want you to buy the digital painting guides (which is dumb at the moment, because not all of their customers own ipads). It won't be long before they put a paywall on their website so you have to subscribe just to look at their miniatures... I'm only half joking here 
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Post by: p_gray99
If you already have a subscription, when will they change the amount you pay? Will it still be £9 for this quarter if you've already had one of them?
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Post by: NAVARRO
 Flashman wrote:I'm glad there are a few people seeing past the "Emperor's New Clothes" effect and highlighting that aside from looking pretty, not much has changed.
That was what I was afraid of and reading the painting section reviews I feel like it was another BIG missed chance there.
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Post by: Scouseboy
 finnan wrote:
The warpstone 'tutorial' shows six steps. The first two seem COMPLETELY pointless to me!
Gotta say, this has bugged me about a few of their painting guides and tutorials. Basecoat and shade only to cover the entire area with another basecoat / layer...? In the flipbook painting guide, they have people airbrushing miniatures one base colour, then airbrushing it another base colour immediately, for total coverage. What's the point of this? If the new coat of paint obscures the old entirely, the first coat serves no purpose at all. If it DOESN'T cover the old paint, then the new layer or basecoat isn't doing its job. I hope it's not a ploy to increase paint sales, as painting an army takes long enough as it is without artificial steps included.
Perhaps I'm being too cynical... any more experienced painter-types shed some light on this?
Cheers!
Craig
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Post by: pixelpusher
Got the digital version, I even subscribed, hoping to send a message of "More digital stuff please".
However. Jaded by my profession... the magazine reeks of amateurish graphic design decisions and the content felt like it was even more haphazard in it's execution.
It's the first issue though. The layout/design problems are something that usually gets ironed out in a few issues time. It irks me that they have missed some really obvious things though. But I attribute that to 1) having a short deadline 2) trying to break old conventions.
I hoped for a ground breaking issue, with content on par with whats in Edge magazine, and was sadly dissapointed. But I guess I'm pleased with what I (we) got. It still feels like they're trying to break the advertising pamphlet box White Dwarf has been living in for the last years. Time will tell if they succeed. I sure hope they do.
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Post by: alphaomega
I have to say been reading WD since 2001 and this one is of a different quality, closer to a lot of Console gamer Magazines. The lay out could do with a lot of improvement (the new way of managing army lists for example is rubbish).
There are more contributor articles which is nice and links back to the 2001 to 2004 era and overall it is a little less of a catalogue and more of magazine, but it is still pretty clear that it has a major flaw, the fact that it is in-house.
Still a mild improvement over the last few months. Hopefully they will stop with all the dark red and graphic boxes, as well as the footnotes on EVERY photograph (That just reminds me of so many home decorating magazines!).
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Post by: d-usa
First White Dwarf that I picked up in a while, and it does seem to have some improvements.
I do like the improved photography, battle report seems a bit more detailed, and there seem to be more staff interviews.
I do like that it covers "licensed games" and Forge World now, but a cynical person might say "You are paying more, for more advertisement!". But I like it.
Multiple pages highlighting the return of staff (and non-staff) armies instead of the same old studio armies. A nice section of a great looking battlefield. Sure it's GW battle field stuff, but it does show how you can make pre-made terrain look much better.
No chapter approved that I saw, but I haven't really read it other than thumbing through the thing.
I give it a solid B and a good step in the right direction.
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Post by: BluntmanDC
£5.50 is too much for me, very little has changed in the magazine itself apart from the paper. I would rather have better articles and more new unit rules for my money.
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Post by: Mick A
My flgs hasn't recieved any yet, any other independants not recieved them?
Mick
29914
Post by: martin74
Looked at my friends new and improved white dwarf. It looks different, but, still smells like crap. Lets review:
White Dwarf prior to change: For the past few years it was a glossy commercial for the newest armies of whatever system, a battle report that showcased the new army (of course it always won with the predetermined dice rolls) and a bunch of pictures of the paint jobs the studio employees did.
White Dwarf after change: Came in a plastic bag with some sort of poster. Even glossier pages that is a gigantic commercial for all things GW and forgeworld.
I picked up some old WD in a trade, and the ones that are five years or older seem to have real content. Some fluff articles/stories. Different scenarios for game play, some good ideas and articles on how to build certain items such as terrain. Now all WD does is say "buy this terrain".
Not worth all the hype that was put into this "new" white dwarf. However, to be positive, it seems GW did better with this than they have with finecast.
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Post by: Ghaz
Am I the only one who seems to have noticed that GW seems to have abandoned the image on the outside spine of White Dwarf that they've been building since the first of the year.
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Post by: Vermillion
 martin74 wrote:Looked at my friends new and improved white dwarf. It looks different, but, still smells like crap. Lets review:
White Dwarf prior to change: For the past few years it was a glossy commercial for the newest armies of whatever system, a battle report that showcased the new army (of course it always won with the predetermined dice rolls) and a bunch of pictures of the paint jobs the studio employees did.
White Dwarf after change: Came in a plastic bag with some sort of poster. Even glossier pages that is a gigantic commercial for all things GW and forgeworld.
I picked up some old WD in a trade, and the ones that are five years or older seem to have real content. Some fluff articles/stories. Different scenarios for game play, some good ideas and articles on how to build certain items such as terrain. Now all WD does is say "buy this terrain".
Not worth all the hype that was put into this "new" white dwarf. However, to be positive, it seems GW did better with this than they have with finecast.
Thing is the ones you say are good are ones which I would describe as you do the current. Many years before it became a gigantic ad for their stuff, and gradually got worse, I am actually surprised to see what you said it conatins 5 years ago. To me it was worthless long before. And as for the price thing...
Years ago they said there was going to be a rise in the cost, to cover that they were going to put card inserts in each insert for various things, be it wargear cards, extra space hulk sections, whatever it happened to be. Few issues down the line that went, no more card, yet the price remained the same. Time shall tell, after all they had previous swapped to a cheaper metal for casting a couple of years earlier and hiked the prices up for greater profits. sound familiar?
37231
Post by: d-usa
The new army lost, doesn't that count for something?
17349
Post by: SilverMK2
 d-usa wrote:The new army lost, doesn't that count for something?
Was it because they didn't have enough of the super new amazing mega kit (link to kit and also a link to re-mortgage your house so you can afford to buy a couple of them)?
37231
Post by: d-usa
 SilverMK2 wrote: d-usa wrote:The new army lost, doesn't that count for something?
Was it because they didn't have enough of the super new amazing mega kit (link to kit and also a link to re-mortgage your house so you can afford to buy a couple of them)?
Actually crappy dice rolls.
4001
Post by: Compel
Actually, the chaos army had one of each of the new models in it, plus a second big rhino dude.
I think it's more to do with, Andrew Kenrick really likes chaos armies. And he's got a record of always losing that makes me think he should play against Jervis some time...
37755
Post by: Harriticus
I also found the ridiculous editorial by Jervis Johnson to be hilarious.
Basically says he's trying to tear down any force limitations in the game because he wants you to buy more models and first and foremost, this is about buying/collecting as opposed to constructing/painting/playing.
37231
Post by: d-usa
Harriticus wrote:I also found the ridiculous editorial by Jervis Johnson to be hilarious.
Basically says he's trying to tear down any force limitations in the game because he wants you to buy more models and first and foremost, this is about buying/collecting as opposed to constructing/painting/playing.
It is about constructing/painting/playing. But you should be able to construct/paint/play with everything you want to buy
5462
Post by: adamsouza
d-usa wrote: Harriticus wrote:I also found the ridiculous editorial by Jervis Johnson to be hilarious.
Basically says he's trying to tear down any force limitations in the game because he wants you to buy more models and first and foremost, this is about buying/collecting as opposed to constructing/painting/playing.
It is about constructing/painting/playing. But you should be able to construct/paint/play with everything you want to buy
I'd like to introduce you to my ALL LasCannon Equiped Space Marine Chapter 
6428
Post by: scythewing
Gatta say I really like the look and feel of the new White Dwarf magazine. My only gripe is the inflated price tag. I very much like the previews and articles but no matter how you look at it is a tool for GW to see their models. So I ask why not set the price at $5 to $6 US? Then they would quadruple the sales of the magazine and be a better tool to get the word out on GW products.
I am a huge fan of warhammer and warhammer 40k the games. Just not of the GW business model of trying to price out new perspective consumers...kids wanting to get in the game.
49972
Post by: simplexcity
 Ghaz wrote:Am I the only one who seems to have noticed that GW seems to have abandoned the image on the outside spine of White Dwarf that they've been building since the first of the year.
yeah i know right.... that spine image buildup was a little weak.. it would have been nice if they did it proper for the people who like collecting the printed versions. some of the older white dwarfs had doubleups on the spines too so when you sit them all side-by-side they dont quite match up...
finnan has a pretty good post back on page 2 covering a lot of the stuff in the new WD. i agree with most of it. especially the part about Jes Goodwins' design sketches towards the back. I love the concept art stuff (they also did a pretty cool video about the hellbrute where they show lots of the sketches). it reminds me sumwhat of how no quarter has lots of nice concept art in there too.
hahah also, not sure if it was finnan but sumone mentioned they were distracted by the players photographs. ahhaha so true, those guys look pretty halarious. (the rivals on pg76 hahaha).
and yeh, all the forgeworld stuff is sweet. im glad GW is advocating more accepting of the forgeworld stuff
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Still full'a advertisements. Still full'a huge pictures rather than maps and turn-by-turn BatReps. Still full'a stuff you can get on the web for free. Still full'a nothing but Citadel™ Terrain™ on Citadel™ Realm™ of Battle™ Boards™.
The new paper is nice though.
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Post by: Doctadeth
The white dwarf is cool, and well worth the little bit extra. But now you have a CHOICE which WD's to get with your subscription, and the subscription is valid til 2014 anyhow. The subscription in my humble opinion is now the way to go, plus you are also getting a new WD mini as well.
Um, alround coolness for the WD team.
49972
Post by: simplexcity
 H.B.M.C. wrote:Still full'a advertisements. Still full'a huge pictures rather than maps and turn-by-turn BatReps. Still full'a stuff you can get on the web for free. Still full'a nothing but Citadel™ Terrain™ on Citadel™ Realm™ of Battle™ Boards™.
The new paper is nice though.
Yeah, i guess i can understand why they leave a lot of fluff outa the book since the black library is totaly awesome, but it could do with a whole lot more SUBSTANCE, like maps and batReps or concept art and rule stuff.
They already have the pretty pictures and advertisments down and i guess it just comes down to the fact that at the end of the day some people feel a little ripped off, having to pay so much for a advert catalogue.
I still like it tho, and i think i will go for a subscription. the subscription model is very nice, and i normally get all the WD anyway, i just like going down to the local store and buying it from there.
5462
Post by: adamsouza
They should at the very least be doing rules previews.
It would have been nice if it had the Chaos Cultist rules, or peak at what makes a Hellbrute different from a Dreadnaught.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Actually yes, the subscription model they've got is quite nice in that you get to choose the issues. I think that's a very good change.
18474
Post by: Darth Bob
It's only a dollar more, and it has about 100x the content of the last pieces of crap. You can feel the quality in the book. It's thicker, sturdier, the cover is embossed, there's fascinating articles, great painting tutorials, even a large portion of the magazine dedicated to the FW Horus Heresy stuff! And a poster too?! Well worth the $10. I'm honestly baffled that, knowing GW, the price didn't go up to like $15.
What a refreshing, and welcome change. A good move by GW.
56400
Post by: Orktavius
It would be worth $15 but I feel I should avoid this discussion for the sake of not getting in trouble...people griping about a $1 price increase while repsonding to posts on an iphone5 make me mourn the future of humanity.
26890
Post by: Ugavine
I thought it was a great issue.
You can please some of the fans some of the time, and Warhammer fans none of the time.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
 Darth Bob wrote:... and it has about 100x the content of the last pieces of crap.
Does it? I don't have the last issue, but I do have the "OMG! It's 6th Edition 40K" issue, and it's poor. Laughably poor. But does this new WD really improve on content that much? Let's go through it, shall we? You're 52 pages in before you're out of the new release section and hit the first article. That article is 6 pages, most of which is pictures. Jervis gets his say for another two and then we're into a 16 page Bat Rep. Good size for a BatRep, but again it's mostly pictures and there are no maps/turn-by-turn. It's certainly no where near as bad as the 3 page isometric photo BatReps from the early 215-230 era, but still. After that we've got a 4 page tactics article - our first real article, reminding me of the old Warhammer and Blood Bowl articles that Jake and Adi used to write - and then we're right into an 8 page advertisement for all the HH products they make. John Blance manages to find enough room to put out a paragraph of text amongst all the pictures, then we get a very nice model showcase for 8 pages (still just pictures though). Up next we have some kitbashing using Citadel™ Parts™, then some pretty pictures of a nice gaming table that uses nothing but authorised Citadel™ Terrain™ Kits™. So after that lot of 10 pages we hit GW's paint-by-trademarks painting guide, with the wonderful advice of 'layer' and 'wash' and which official Citadel™ Painting™ Brush™ you should be using with your official Citadel™ Paints™. So that's 8 pages. Then we hit Jeremy Vetock's article and it looks like we're about to get some real content and... wait, that's 2 pages and we're back to advertisments, notices of events and some store info. Do I need to know all this? I mean I'm happy that I can buy GW products at Quezon City in the Philippines or that there's a GW in Mollergata in Norway, but I live in Australia so... why are these pages here? All 14 or them for that matter? That better be it for this 'section'. One big house-keeping list of every store/stockist that they do once every 6 months. 14 pages of store information every issue is going to get real old, real fast. Then it's three pages of advertisements (including one for WD) and we're maybe getting to some actual content here. Nope. We're not. I'll forgive the new WD team for talking about new WD in their first issue - that's to be expected - but now we've got some details on this months new hotness. We had that in the first 50 pages. Do we need to go over it again? That's 5 pages and... AH! Phil Kelly! Great. Some actual information that's new and interesting and/or hasn't already been covered yet. And Jes is there too! 6 pages. And back to more stuff on Forge World doing Horus Heresy, something we've already had the 50-page New Release section and an 8-page HH article tell us about. Two pages of that bring us to 2 pages of BL stuff, but thankfully as Christian Dunn and Gav Thorpe are writers we actually get more than just a paragraph. We still only get two pages before... ... Gandalf! So no Dark Angels. Just Hobbit (x2) until year's end I guess. Can't really blame 'em for capitalising on Hobbit mania, but still, it would've been nice to get a Codex for each of the starter-box armies before the end of the year. A calendar of events fills the inside cover (Games Day Modena coming soon - I don't even know where that is!) and our magazine's over. So there's 100x the content? I'm not even seeing 10x the content. What am I missing?
49972
Post by: simplexcity
 adamsouza wrote:They should at the very least be doing rules previews.
It would have been nice if it had the Chaos Cultist rules, or peak at what makes a Hellbrute different from a Dreadnaught.
yeah i know right. i got dark vengeance and id really like to know the nitty gritty about the units rules, points cost/ FOC, are those chosen suposed to be elites? ah well, guess it wont be too long till the new codex comes... and in hardcover. sheesh, i love those hardcovers but they are a little unpractical. might look for a softcover since theyre easier to use on the table
60061
Post by: OLDCell
I subbed the new Digital iPad version due to price, £44.99 instead of £55 so works out at £3.74 an issue.
Looks great on the retina display and is easy to read, the images look great and being able to take screenshots of screen so I can put up reference images on pc while painting is very handy.
Some of the large models require a split shot and I can just join the two together on pc.
Overall very please with the digital version.
7361
Post by: Howard A Treesong
Vermillion wrote:I picked up some old WD in a trade, and the ones that are five years or older seem to have real content. Some fluff articles/stories. Different scenarios for game play, some good ideas and articles on how to build certain items such as terrain. Now all WD does is say "buy this terrain".
Not worth all the hype that was put into this "new" white dwarf. However, to be positive, it seems GW did better with this than they have with finecast.
Thing is the ones you say are good are ones which I would describe as you do the current. Many years before it became a gigantic ad for their stuff, and gradually got worse, I am actually surprised to see what you said it conatins 5 years ago. To me it was worthless long before. And as for the price thing...
It's all about perspective. If you've been spoon-fed crap for a few years then what they were doing 5 years ago does look good, and perhaps the current edition is a 'return to form'. The longer you've been wargaming the further back your exposure of White Dwarf probably is. I mainly bought it from issues 100-250 and you could see the decline even then. But it's a long road back to that sort of quality and the will to do this just isn't in the company. The management are apparently satisfied with the magazine because it is just a dressed up catalogue, they don't seem interested in a true supplement to their games giving proper support to their systems. Magazines like Dragon are dedicated to a single product too, but last I looked they are full of scenarios, rules for NPCs, some floorplans and maps to copy out, rules for obscure new spells or monsters, etc. Just heaps of stuff to throw into games. GW are content to produce dross and it's an expensive magazine compared to most similar hobby publications.
21066
Post by: BluntmanDC
Darth Bob wrote:It's only a dollar more, and it has about 100x the content of the last pieces of crap. You can feel the quality in the book. It's thicker, sturdier, the cover is embossed, there's fascinating articles, great painting tutorials, even a large portion of the magazine dedicated to the FW Horus Heresy stuff! And a poster too?! Well worth the $10. I'm honestly baffled that, knowing GW, the price didn't go up to like $15.
What a refreshing, and welcome change. A good move by GW.
It hasn't increased in content amount:
A. The all new picture size means less room for actual text (the images are also freely available online at GW website)
B. The all new Forge World section, just read the Forge World website, most of those minis are not new releases.
C. Still has a massive list of retailers taking up way too many pages
D. Font size has increased so you get alot less actual text
E. The battle report is padded out with massive photos which don't help explain what is going on.
Good points:
A. Kitbashing article - although this isn't new, it used to be a regular article.
B. Player's army - again nothing new
C. army design process - again nothing new, happen every codex release
The new WD has gained better paper and lostactual content, I would rather pay for a magazine I would want to read than one that feels alittle better when i turn a page.
44069
Post by: p_gray99
H.B.M.C. wrote: Darth Bob wrote:... and it has about 100x the content of the last pieces of crap.
Does it? I don't have the last issue, but I do have the "OMG! It's 6th Edition 40K" issue, and it's poor. Laughably poor. But does this new WD really improve on content that much? Let's go through it, shall we?
[...]
So there's 100x the content? I'm not even seeing 10x the content. What am I missing?
Heh, sounds like 100x as much content to me, but that's not because there's much good stuff here. It's just that there's the occasional good bit in the new white dwarf, as opposed to no good stuff in the old ones. I'm seriously thinking of stopping with the white dwarves, but at least there is something there worth reading.
With dakka at our fingertips, it could be said that some of the tactics etc. aren't accessible easily without buying the magasine, but I reckon you can pretty much read it all here for free if you know enough to siphon out the rubbish. To me it's far better, but still not good enough to spend that much money on. If it's a question of 12 white dwarves and a battleforce, to me it's a no-brainer.
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Post by: Blood and Slaughter
I thought the battle report was fairly interesting and that Jervis Johnson said some revealing things about collecting being the core of the hobby and painting and gaming secondary.
Beyond that I was disappointed. Some lovely photos but nothing to make me want to buy another (prior to this I last purchased a White Dwarf in about 1991).
I suppose as a magazine for keen collectors, it's probably worth it. Gamers and painters, not so much.
7361
Post by: Howard A Treesong
Why do you even need a store list when it's so easy to access the Internet? I thought it was useless padding over 10 years ago.
20075
Post by: Vermillion
 Blood and Slaughter wrote:I thought the battle report was fairly interesting and that Jervis Johnson said some revealing things about collecting being the core of the hobby and painting and gaming secondary.
Beyond that I was disappointed. Some lovely photos but nothing to make me want to buy another (prior to this I last purchased a White Dwarf in about 1991).
I suppose as a magazine for keen collectors, it's probably worth it. Gamers and painters, not so much.
You mean "buying stuff from Games Workshop because this is the Games Workshop hobby!!" coming first and then anything which doesn't get them money being secondary? Well, at least they are showing dome honesty there
And yes Howard I agree the decline was clear through those issues, but at least they did try in there at times, with adding rules etc and having updates. And RT era you just had to buy WD for the rules unless you wanted them in one place which was great
45782
Post by: Blood and Slaughter
You mean "buying stuff from Games Workshop because this is the Games Workshop hobby!!" coming first and then anything which doesn't get them money being secondary? Well, at least they are showing dome honesty
Yes.
In fairness I though his remarks about putting too many limitations into list building were in general quite sound, especially the terrible need some people have to impose house ruled restrictions in order to 'balance' things that they simply don't like either through prejudice or fear -- Forgeworld haters take note . . .
But really, beyond the two half decent articles and a small feature making me rather wish I lived near central Glasgow (now there's something I never thought I'd write!), it didn't do much for me. Again, in fairness, if I played fantasy the rivals article might have been okay.
269
Post by: Atma01
 Howard A Treesong wrote:Why do you even need a store list when it's so easy to access the Internet? I thought it was useless padding over 10 years ago.
Silly Howard. What will the average GW Customer do when this whole intermajiggy fad is over? GW has to look out for its customers, who they know are slow unintelligent creatures unable to think for themselves. This is all about ensuring they are informed for the future when the intermanet is gone, not about hawking more high quality Citadel Finewares.
I skimmed through a copy on Saturday. Whilst I must say I do love the new paperstock, and that the price 'adjustment' was only an extra 5 cents here in Oz, there is nothing in there that can lure a jaded customer like me back. The battle report looked boring as hell at a glance, the painting guide didn't really seem to provide anything beyond how to paint their official color schemes, and there was next to nothing in there to wet my whistle for next month's issue since its preview was just a picture of Ian McKellen as Gandalf.
At least they have consolidated the advertisement section, that is actually a smart move. But if this issue is an indicator of the entirety of the change then it didn't work for me. And I'll hold onto my cash until the next overhaul. Even then I will chug a shaker of salt before I believe it will win me back.
Personally I don't blame the new staff making it, they actually seem to have an idea of what they are doing for the most part. My overall biggest gripe that it only shows (note I didn't use 'supports') 3 systems at most is out of their control. And until GW decides to have more than 3 active systems they will be hard pressed to generate any content that I will be interested in, and ergo they won't be able to cross market their major lines to me and get me to part with my delicious monies.
21853
Post by: mattyrm
I enjoyed it, it was decent.
Far better than the 12 I received before my sub lapsed in February and I swore never to buy it again. 
I doubt Ill resubscribe mind, but Ill certainly consider buying it more often. Something I wouldn't have said a year ago.
37325
Post by: Adam LongWalker
Flashman wrote:I'm glad there are a few people seeing past the "Emperor's New Clothes" effect and highlighting that aside from looking pretty, not much has changed.
GW has entered a really cynical phase of wanting you to pay for everything separately, so that means no decent painting articles because they want you to buy the digital painting guides (which is dumb at the moment, because not all of their customers own ipads). It won't be long before they put a paywall on their website so you have to subscribe just to look at their miniatures... I'm only half joking here
Well is it not an ad rag that doubles as a revenue generator with token bones of hobby information thrown to us hobbyists?
9892
Post by: Flashman
 Adam LongWalker wrote: Flashman wrote:I'm glad there are a few people seeing past the "Emperor's New Clothes" effect and highlighting that aside from looking pretty, not much has changed.
GW has entered a really cynical phase of wanting you to pay for everything separately, so that means no decent painting articles because they want you to buy the digital painting guides (which is dumb at the moment, because not all of their customers own ipads). It won't be long before they put a paywall on their website so you have to subscribe just to look at their miniatures... I'm only half joking here
Well is it not an ad rag that doubles as a revenue generator with token bones of hobby information thrown to us hobbyists?
It didn't used to be  I was reading WD315 (the launch issue for 4th Edition Tau) earlier which is far from a classic, but it had a great Mordheim campaign with extra scenarios.
As for the modern day WD, I'm past the point of caring now. It's £5.50 that will be spent elsewhere.
59739
Post by: Micky
I bought a new subscription at my local GW store on Saturday morning... strangely they only charged me $96 for it.
Promo pricing?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, gotta say... I like that the battle report designed to show off the shiny new super powerful forces of chaos ended up with chaos getting their face smashed.
That's a bit different, too. The games usually feel more rigged than that.
37701
Post by: Zond
Blood and Slaughter wrote: But really, beyond the two half decent articles and a small feature making me rather wish I lived near central Glasgow (now there's something I never thought I'd write!), it didn't do much for me. Again, in fairness, if I played fantasy the rivals article might have been okay.
Living in central Glasgow myself I can't help be intrigued? What was the feature that was so appealing to make you want to be a weegie? 
34258
Post by: Pilau Rice
It looks prettier, but it's still pretty much the same as it was before. I think there's actually less variety of content in it now.
Hopefully this is the first step towards an all round better magazine.
Edit: Question - did they finish the Dark Angel spine image or did they just abandon it with the introduction of the new look magazine?
30602
Post by: High_Marshal_Helbrecht
I honestly hated the direction they went with the new photography...
*Not at all bitter about applying for that job and losing out to that tool that got the job*
55408
Post by: Graphite
Only really had a flip through it, so these are very preliminary impressions:
Good: There are some painting guides, showing a few different rust techniques/paint chips/glowing things! Horray! This is what I hope for - all the bog standard stuff I already know siphoned off into the "how to paint citadel miniatures" book with a couple of tips and tricks in the magazine.
Bad: They say a picture says a thousand words, but that doesn't mean you can get away with NO WORDS AT ALL in your painting guides.
Good: A conversion article or two!
Bad: Only using GW bits... hmm...
Good: Showing the staff playing games, getting outside contributers, concept sketches from JG!
Bad: Why the hell is this behind the store listing? I very nearly missed it, as I assume once I hit those pages that the magazine is basically over. If you've got to have a store list (and fair enough, I have actually used it before) put it RIGHT at the back.
Good: Jervis still has an article - generally interesting, haven't had time to read it.
Bad: The font size in the article looks huge, and there's a MASSIVE WHITE SPACE in the bottom right corner of the page. I though we now had Supar 133t magazine producing gurus working on this thing, why chunks of white space?
Overall, looks a lot better than the last 6 months. Still needs more text. B+ on first impressions.
55023
Post by: Tappers
I thought it was pretty good, apart from the painting guides which were awful.
21853
Post by: mattyrm
Like I said, It was better than it has been for a while, but did anyone else think the batrep kinda sucked?
I think the last one I really enjoyed was Necron's V SM about 7 or 8 months ago, and I much preferred it when it was fluff heavy and had plenty of story added, the latest one seemed harder to follow and had no fluff added, I'm hoping this was more for testing the new units and they will change the format somewhat for the next one.
18410
Post by: filbert
 mattyrm wrote:Like I said, It was better than it has been for a while, but did anyone else think the batrep kinda sucked?
I think the last one I really enjoyed was Necron's V SM about 7 or 8 months ago, and I much preferred it when it was fluff heavy and had plenty of story added, the latest one seemed harder to follow and had no fluff added, I'm hoping this was more for testing the new units and they will change the format somewhat for the next one.
Yes, I thought the latest one was a bit muddled and I too found it hard to work out what was going on now that they have seemingly done away with the overhead map/graphics that show movement, hits etc.
I applaud them trying to do the batrep in a bit more detail and with more photos however; it is a step in the right direction. Hopefully, they will use this relaunch as a springboard to improve.
45782
Post by: Blood and Slaughter
What was the feature that was so appealing to make you want to be a weegie?
Just the bottom of a page feature on the Glasgow shop towards the back where it said they had two gaming evenings (veteran's and club) and 6 gaming tables.
18698
Post by: kronk
I picked it up this weekend and had some time to read through it on Sunday.
It was good, but not great. Certainly not good enough to get a subscription IMHO.
37701
Post by: Zond
Oh. I barely frequent the Glasgow store due to bad experiences, thought it was something more exciting.
45782
Post by: Blood and Slaughter
Nah, it was just the fact that hereabouts we now have only one 6x4 for open gaming (becoming 2 or 3 4x4s on game night).
1309
Post by: Lordhat
mattyrm wrote:Like I said, It was better than it has been for a while, but did anyone else think the batrep kinda sucked? I think the last one I really enjoyed was Necron's V SM about 7 or 8 months ago, and I much preferred it when it was fluff heavy and had plenty of story added, the latest one seemed harder to follow and had no fluff added, I'm hoping this was more for testing the new units and they will change the format somewhat for the next one.
I absolutely hate trying read a bat rep with "fluff" scattered through it. It's never any good. I'd rather just read what happened, what tactics were used, what went according to the player's plans, and what didn't. You know, the things that actually happen during a game. If I wanted to read a bunch of bad fiction by people who aren't paid to write fiction (but wish they could be), I'd go become an editor. That being said, the lack of an overhead map doesn't help an battle report at all.
38325
Post by: Jayce_The_Ace
Well, I haven't fully read my WD yet (not something I thought I'd ever say!!), but here are my general thoughts on it.
It feels good in the hand, weighty & I like the slightly raised lettering on the cover, so overall pleased with that.
Content wise - not so pleased. Still way to many pictures, to much pimping of how 'greatsuperawesome' finecast is, to much wasted space with store locations (should be a quarterly leaflet or something), poor painting guide (if you can even call it that), pretty lame 'kit bashing' article (oh look, we glued some stuff to a plane) and poor, seemingly random layout.
All said, it's better than it has been for a looooong time, and I'm willing to give it a few issues to see how things pan out, but if this is the best it gets, then, nope, count me out.
46630
Post by: wowsmash
It's nice to see that somebody at Hq actually cares and their trying but still not enough improvement to buy. $10 an issue adds up over time and I would rather have more models personally. I'm interested in furthering my hobby skills not have them tell me buy product X for 50 dollars or more. I want to learn how to scratch build terrain and how to actually paint like or better than the heavy metal team. I get better painting instruction for free off utube than I do after buying their how to paint citadel mini's. Layer, wash, layer, highlight, glaze and final highlight. With the optional new dry brushing compound thrown in on occasion. Doh, they got me that time, never again.
42149
Post by: MightyGodzilla
Got it this weekend. Still looking through it, but I gotta say I like this issue more than any I've seen in the past 2-3 years. I didn't think the batrep sucked all that much, I think they were open and honest in what they were trying to do and I could understand what was going on through the overview. I really liked the review at the end of the batrep from the 3 guest speakers, I will say that I agree that overhead map shots would have made it better.
Howard A Treesong wrote:It's all about perspective. If you've been spoon-fed crap for a few years then what they were doing 5 years ago does look good, and perhaps the current edition is a 'return to form'. The longer you've been wargaming the further back your exposure of White Dwarf probably is. I mainly bought it from issues 100-250 and you could see the decline even then. But it's a long road back to that sort of quality and the will to do this just isn't in the company. The management are apparently satisfied with the magazine because it is just a dressed up catalogue, they don't seem interested in a true supplement to their games giving proper support to their systems. Magazines like Dragon are dedicated to a single product too, but last I looked they are full of scenarios, rules for NPCs, some floorplans and maps to copy out, rules for obscure new spells or monsters, etc. Just heaps of stuff to throw into games. GW are content to produce dross and it's an expensive magazine compared to most similar hobby publications.
This kind of strikes a chord with me on a couple of different levels. I remember dragon in the glory days of the nineties....hell it's still pretty good, but it's a different ballpark supporting an rpg vs. a tabletop game that people take to tourneys. People I knew didn't like GW because of the Chapter Approved stuff because they felt they had to suscribe to GW just to play the game (which mades sense to me then, but is absurd to me now)...so yes, it's all a perspective issue.
I'd like to see more mission scenario's, support for crap like Planetstrike, Cityfight, Kill Teams, Apocolypse formations, alternate ways to play the game, and revisiting specialist games should all be the domain of White Dwarf. Core rules updates that used to be Chapter Approved I think should be the FAQs. I'm curious to see how this magazine will pan out over the next 3-4 issues when there's not a major release a week away (I mean seriously, this issue was EZ Sauce because of the Chaos release).
Anyways. I'd give it a solid B+. I like the insights on the GW family dynamics. I haven't bought a WD in 2+ years. I wasn't displeased with what I received in this issue.
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Post by: clively
Blood and Slaughter wrote:I thought the battle report was fairly interesting and that Jervis Johnson said some revealing things about collecting being the core of the hobby and painting and gaming secondary.
I hope you understand, that Jervis claiming the core of the hobby is collecting does not in fact mean the core of the hobby is collecting. It just means that GW's current position is that the core of the hobby should be collecting.
The reality is that the core of the hobby is playing a game. For various reasons, including some related to positioning in litigation, they really want people to think it's all about collecting and less about gaming.
Quite frankly, his statement is not "revealing" in any way. In fact it directly contradicts statements he made in other white dwarfs within the past 6 months.
------------
Back on topic: Two things I did like about it, specifically the iPad version: with larger close up zoomable photos and the price. Much better. Having read plenty of other magazines, the ad content level doesn't surprise me one bit and really doesn't matter when it's delivered electronically.
I would however like the battle reports to be something that is easy to follow along so that we can really figure out what happened. Also, I don't mind the army of the month always winning and was a bit perplexed that the chaos side lost this time. What would have been absolutely perfect is a chaos marine win against grey knights, combined with a good solid battle report on how they pulled it off.
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Post by: Pacific
clively wrote: Blood and Slaughter wrote:I thought the battle report was fairly interesting and that Jervis Johnson said some revealing things about collecting being the core of the hobby and painting and gaming secondary.
I hope you understand, that Jervis claiming the core of the hobby is collecting does not in fact mean the core of the hobby is collecting. It just means that GW's current position is that the core of the hobby should be collecting.
The reality is that the core of the hobby is playing a game. For various reasons, including some related to positioning in litigation, they really want people to think it's all about collecting and less about gaming.
Quite frankly, his statement is not "revealing" in any way. In fact it directly contradicts statements he made in other white dwarfs within the past 6 months.
Take a look at the Chapterhouse legal battle thread. It's quite possible that he made those statements because of what is going on in that at the moment, if you read the ins and outs of what has been taking place there.
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Post by: Zappit
Got it, and liked most of the changes. The battle reports are more detailed. I like that they finally did away with the simplistic charts showing movements and kills, replacing them with more photos. Someone mentioned the goofy gamers being a distraction in the photos, but I didn't even notice. Honestly, if they looked deeply concerned and competitive, it would be a turn-off, because it just isn't very fun playing against the hyper-competitive.
Love the section on the concept art and the development of the new Chaos stuff. Hope to see more of that.
Biggest downside for me was that the magazine seems...darker. The photos, while clear, seemed darker than usual. I didn't care for the liberal use of tan pages. That's a personal complaint, though. I'm colorblind, and things just get muddy looking for me fast.
Didn't try the digital version, but that's likely how I'll get it from now on. The magazine's print quality is amazing, best I've ever seen, but I'm a hopeless slave to my iPad, and it must feed...
I want more Kitbash. Conversions have been one of the most interesting aspects of this game, and it looks like WD is starting to acknowledge that. The article highlighting Space Marine conversions last month was a real treat, too.
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Post by: KGatch113
Nothing seemed different to me. Really.....just a glorified catalog with a batrep and some interviews.
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Post by: Flashman
Ok, I had a flick through myself today, though rather irritatingly, I had to remove it from the wrapping in the shop first.
I can't argue that it looks very well put together, but while the content is indeed a marginal improvement on last month, it's not a patch on what they used to do even 12 months ago.
I have now officially stopped buying White Dwarf and won't purchase another copy until some effort is made to include significantly more hobby and gaming articles.
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Post by: d-usa
Ads are a part of every magazine though.
Every other magazine we end up paying $8 for the privilege of reading ads that somebody else already paid for.
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Post by: Redbeard
d-usa wrote:Ads are a part of every magazine though.
Every other magazine we end up paying $8 for the privilege of reading ads that somebody else already paid for.
Most other magazines aren't $8. Most other magazines are cheaper, because the ads pay for the content and you're just buying the medium.
Some examples:
Time: Cover price: $4.50. Yearly subscription (56 magazines): $30
Sports Illustrated: 56 issues for $29 Cover price:
Cosmopolitan (glossy, all-ad magazine) - 12 issues for $15 (Cover price: $4)
The New Yorker: 47 issues for $70 (cover price: $5)
Vanity Fair: 12 issues for $20 ($5 cover price)
Some other subscriptions prices, from amazon:
Maxim - $1.25/issue
Playboy - $1.33/issue
Popular Science - $1/issue
Popular Mechanics - $1/issue
Entertainment Weekly - $.48/issue
White Dwarf is a rip off because they don't operate like a magazine. Magazines pay for content with ads and the buyer pays for the medium and the delivery. White Dwarf has no outside advertising, and has to pay for the content somehow. So they charge you for both the content and the ads and the medium. White Dwarf's cover price is double what any other magazine charges, and their subscription plan is a whopping 17% savings, where industry standard is closer to 66%. $10/month is a lot to spend on some pictures to look at while crapping.
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Post by: d-usa
 Redbeard wrote: d-usa wrote:Ads are a part of every magazine though. Every other magazine we end up paying $8 for the privilege of reading ads that somebody else already paid for.
Most other magazines aren't $8. Most other magazines are cheaper, because the ads pay for the content and you're just buying the medium. White Dwarf is a rip off because they don't operate like a magazine. Magazines pay for content with ads and the buyer pays for the medium and the delivery. White Dwarf has no outside advertising, and has to pay for the content somehow. So they charge you for both the content and the ads and the medium. White Dwarf's cover price is double what any other magazine charges, and their subscription plan is a whopping 17% savings, where industry standard is closer to 66%. $10/month is a lot to spend on some pictures to look at while crapping.
So you admit that other magazines have a subsidized price because of ads. So White Dwarf is a ripoff because you have to pay the money that they don't make by not having outside ads? You admit that they don't have any ad income, and then complain that the price is double that of other magazines (who have ad income). The reason other subscriptions are cheaper is also because of ads. They use the guaranteed "x subscribers" to charge more for ads, they have an incentive to have a guaranteed number of magazines sold each month so that they can charge more (and make more income). Since White Dwarf doesn't have ads, that doesn't work.
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Post by: mattyrm
Redbeard wrote: d-usa wrote:Ads are a part of every magazine though.
Every other magazine we end up paying $8 for the privilege of reading ads that somebody else already paid for.
Most other magazines aren't $8. Most other magazines are cheaper, because the ads pay for the content and you're just buying the medium.
Some examples:
Time: Cover price: $4.50. Yearly subscription (56 magazines): $30
Sports Illustrated: 56 issues for $29 Cover price:
Cosmopolitan (glossy, all-ad magazine) - 12 issues for $15 (Cover price: $4)
The New Yorker: 47 issues for $70 (cover price: $5)
Vanity Fair: 12 issues for $20 ($5 cover price)
Some other subscriptions prices, from amazon:
Maxim - $1.25/issue
Playboy - $1.33/issue
Popular Science - $1/issue
Popular Mechanics - $1/issue
Entertainment Weekly - $.48/issue
White Dwarf is a rip off because they don't operate like a magazine. Magazines pay for content with ads and the buyer pays for the medium and the delivery. White Dwarf has no outside advertising, and has to pay for the content somehow. So they charge you for both the content and the ads and the medium. White Dwarf's cover price is double what any other magazine charges, and their subscription plan is a whopping 17% savings, where industry standard is closer to 66%. $10/month is a lot to spend on some pictures to look at while crapping.
Industry standard?
Your example was extremely crude, you cant just pick "magazines" and then shot some prices up. Especially for weekly/news based ones, they are always much cheaper! The Economist is one of my favourites, I wouldn't expect to pay as much as a WD for it. Actual monthly magazines for hobbies/general interest and such, are pretty much all about the same price, namely, a fething rip off. Have you seen the price of gak like FHM?
I occasionally read gym/running/cycling magazines, they are all the same price roughly as WD, and as D said, they make actual cash off ads. FHM and Esquire and such are literally 50% adverts, that they get paid for printing.
Anyway, as I have said many times, I agree with you on the main point, I wont sub to WD, because I agree its not worth the money, but don't start sounding like one of the infantile "haters" we see on here so often and needlessly rag on things because you can. There are numerous good reasons to not buy WD, but "some magazines are cheaper" is a really crappy one for the simple fact that some magazines are more expensive as well.
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Post by: Alfndrate
If GW would be a little more open to 3rd party advertisers, maybe White Dwarf might get lowered in price
But we can dream...
Honestly what ticked me off the most is that the magazine was the weight and thickness of a 5th ed codex. for roughly 1/3rd the price of said codex. I'll admit the pages are not the same, but still, for 10 dollars you can give me a full color glossy magazine, but I have to pat 33 to get slightly better binding, page thickness and thicker cover?
It glowed an awesome glow of "oooh shiny" and then I went home and realized that it just wasn't worth the price for the content in it...
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Post by: blood lance
Nobody pointed out the new book smell 3:
But yeah, its a step in the right direction, but it still isn't That good. When they start having less pointless stuff in it and have less than 50(!) pages of release pictures which most of us already saw a week ago and start with more actual content, I will be happy.
Anyone see the inquisitorial warband that was near the back? It was pretty neat. I liked that.
And yeah, as one person had said, the structure is really weird. Why there is a second contents page at the back of the book I don't, and kind of want to know.
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Post by: Redbeard
d-usa wrote:
So you admit that other magazines have a subsidized price because of ads. So White Dwarf is a ripoff because you have to pay the money that they don't make by not having outside ads? You admit that they don't have any ad income, and then complain that the price is double that of other magazines (who have ad income).
You seem to be mistaking cause and effect.
White Dwarf is more expensive because they lack outside advertisements. This is a cause. It's easily explainable.
The effect is that White Dwarf costs substantially more than most other magazines, without having any more content (it could be argued that it has even less content, as half their content is just glorified ads). When you have to pay twice the normal rate for content, that's a ripoff.
Just because we can explain why it's a ripoff doesn't mean it isn't one. It's just a poor business model.
mattyrm wrote:
Industry standard?
Your example was extremely crude, you cant just pick "magazines" and then shot some prices up.
I didn't just pick some, I grabbed some names I knew off amazon's magazine subscription page. It's publicly available, feel free to peruse it if you want. The point is, I didn't cherry-pick low-cost magazines to use in the example, I took a handful from a page without even considering their cost, and they're all at least half the price of WD. The other ones available are also similarly priced.
Especially for weekly/news based ones, they are always much cheaper!
so you're saying we should expect hobby magazines to be more expensive? Here's the amazon page for those:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_n_27?rh=n:599858,k:magazines,n:!599872,n:769100&bbn=599872&keywords=magazines&ie=UTF8&qid=1348778336&rnid=599872
Wood Design & Building: $5.50/issue
Watercolor Artist: $3.66/issue
KnitSimple: $5/issue
Crochet Today: $3.32/issue
Model Railroader: $3.58/issue
They're ALL half the price of WD. Even the hobby ones.
The Economist is one of my favourites, I wouldn't expect to pay as much as a WD for it. Actual monthly magazines for hobbies/general interest and such, are pretty much all about the same price, namely, a fething rip off. Have you seen the price of gak like FHM?
Since you asked,
The Economist: $2.49
FHM: - Doesn't seem to be in the US.
I occasionally read gym/running/cycling magazines, they are all the same price roughly as WD, and as D said, they make actual cash off ads. FHM and Esquire and such are literally 50% adverts, that they get paid for printing.
Esquire: 11 issue subscription for $8 ($.73/issue)
Anyway, as I have said many times, I agree with you on the main point, I wont sub to WD, because I agree its not worth the money, but don't start sounding like one of the infantile "haters" we see on here so often and needlessly rag on things because you can. There are numerous good reasons to not buy WD, but "some magazines are cheaper" is a really crappy one for the simple fact that some magazines are more expensive as well.
I didn't see one. Granted, I didn't spend that much time browsing the site and I'm sure that of the 38,000 magazine subscriptions they show in their search results, one or two are probably more expensive than White Dwarf.
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Post by: Maelstrom808
d-usa wrote: Redbeard wrote: d-usa wrote:Ads are a part of every magazine though.
Every other magazine we end up paying $8 for the privilege of reading ads that somebody else already paid for.
Most other magazines aren't $8. Most other magazines are cheaper, because the ads pay for the content and you're just buying the medium.
White Dwarf is a rip off because they don't operate like a magazine. Magazines pay for content with ads and the buyer pays for the medium and the delivery. White Dwarf has no outside advertising, and has to pay for the content somehow. So they charge you for both the content and the ads and the medium. White Dwarf's cover price is double what any other magazine charges, and their subscription plan is a whopping 17% savings, where industry standard is closer to 66%. $10/month is a lot to spend on some pictures to look at while crapping.
So you admit that other magazines have a subsidized price because of ads. So White Dwarf is a ripoff because you have to pay the money that they don't make by not having outside ads? You admit that they don't have any ad income, and then complain that the price is double that of other magazines (who have ad income).
The reason other subscriptions are cheaper is also because of ads. They use the guaranteed "x subscribers" to charge more for ads, they have an incentive to have a guaranteed number of magazines sold each month so that they can charge more (and make more income). Since White Dwarf doesn't have ads, that doesn't work.
The problem is they DO still have ads, even though they aren't being payed for by third parties. I have no problem with the price. It's the lack of content, or advertising disguised as content that makes it worthless for me, no matter how pretty they make it. If they want me to buy it, put some content I can use in it rather than spend 70% of the magazine trying to tell me how awesome their models are. Campagin scenarios and fluff, more detailed painting guides and general painting articles, conversion step by steps and how-tos, meaningful tactics discussions and battle reports that are more than "this unit is awesome because it's our new model we are pushing", articles discussing fluff and/or short stories. This is content I would pay for.
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Post by: The Shadow
I like the new WD.
It's got more content, as well as a some hobby and gaming articles that look like they'll be in every month. The Battle Reports aren't that much of an improvement in my opinion, content-wise, but they do look much better. It's even nice to see GW have included a list of all new releases WITH THE PRICES
So, I guess if GW can keep it up with all the news articles and including good content in them, it'll certainly be worth buying, even with the pound price increase.
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Post by: Backfire
Redbeard wrote: d-usa wrote:Ads are a part of every magazine though. Every other magazine we end up paying $8 for the privilege of reading ads that somebody else already paid for.
Most other magazines aren't $8. Most other magazines are cheaper, because the ads pay for the content and you're just buying the medium.
No, most magazines I buy don't cost $8. They cost more than that. Air International costs like 9 to 10 euros, ditto for Combat Aircraft, my local aviation magazine costs 8.50 euros a piece...gun rags cost between 7 to 9 euros each, model kit hobby magazine costs 12.50 euros (!!).
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Post by: illuknisaa
Backfire wrote: Redbeard wrote: d-usa wrote:Ads are a part of every magazine though.
Every other magazine we end up paying $8 for the privilege of reading ads that somebody else already paid for.
Most other magazines aren't $8. Most other magazines are cheaper, because the ads pay for the content and you're just buying the medium.
No, most magazines I buy don't cost $8. They cost more than that. Air International costs like 9 to 10 euros, ditto for Combat Aircraft, my local aviation magazine costs 8.50 euros a piece...gun rags cost between 7 to 9 euros each, model kit hobby magazine costs 12.50 euros (!!).
Three things you have forgotten.
1. You live in finland. Sure Finland isn't down under but Finland is one of the most expensive coutries in EU. Our vat is like 25-30%. GW doesn't take take VAT into account like other shops. They have their own insane pricing ideas.
2. Most hobby magazines around here cost 8 euros due to small market. PC Gamer costs about 7-8, Pelit costs 6... Donald Duck (while not a hobby magazine) costs 2,5.
3. WD is lacking content which lowers the euro per content ratio while other magazines are not. I haven't read the new WD but the dakkajet issue has loads of ads, 1 painting tutorial 3 times and a phone catalog. Pelit (a finnish gaming magazine) has 80 pages but pretty much all of them have articles with loads of text. Basically one article in Pelit has the same amount of text as the entire WD.
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Post by: gorgon
Graphite wrote:Bad: The font size in the article looks huge, and there's a MASSIVE WHITE SPACE in the bottom right corner of the page. I though we now had Supar 133t magazine producing gurus working on this thing, why chunks of white space?
LOL. WD needed a little white space. For years and years, their approach seemed to be to fill every millimeter of the mag with stale photos or rambling copy. The mag is finally getting some air, and doesn't look like something from 1993 anymore.
Overall, I like most of their choices. It was very interesting to me to see some more competitive content...perhaps vets and mid-level hobbyists are welcome after all? I think the main thing it's missing is a dedicated hobby section. (Hint to lurking WD staff: Do a series on converting the GW plastic terrain for various armies and environments.) I get the feeling they weren't trying to blow their wad on the first issue, and that we can expect refinements and different types of content in time.
I haven't subscribed in many years and probably still won't (if I had a GW store near me, I might have considered it). But I'll probably pick it up a little more often, especially since it seems like we can expect rules to appear in it once in a while. So to the new WD team -- nice job! I look forward to seeing what else you have in store for us.
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Post by: Oaka
Flashman wrote:Ok, I had a flick through myself today, though rather irritatingly, I had to remove it from the wrapping in the shop first.
This alone is why every gaming store should have a store copy of the newest White Dwarf for anyone to flick through. There is nothing worse than buying the new issue to learn it has very little value in it.
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Post by: Flashman
I happened to flick through Wargames Illustrated today as well. It's their 30th Anniversary issue, only 50 pence more than this month's WD and nearly 300 pages in length. Interesting reading too (including an amusing jab at GW about their anxieties over 3D printers).
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Post by: Ugavine
Flashman wrote:I happened to flick through Wargames Illustrated today as well. It's their 30th Anniversary issue, only 50 pence more than this month's WD and nearly 300 pages in length. Interesting reading too (including an amusing jab at GW about their anxieties over 3D printers).
I always get the impression that Wargames Illustrated treats sci-fi games as the black sheep of the family. It rarely has any content I like.
Whereas I really enjoyed this months White Dwarf.
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Post by: Eiríkr
Between the new White Dwarf and this month's Wargames Illustrated? Haha. It wasn't much of a choice.
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Post by: Henners91
Are GW Marketing registered on Dakka now?
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Post by: malfred
I'm skipping everything to say this:
The marketing blurbs on the new Chaos product is extremely
simple. I know they market to newer people, but telling even a
new person that the Chaos techmarine is what you get when you
corrupt a loyalist techmarine seems kind of asinine. Also,
repeating over and over that the sculpt in Finecast is BETTER
THAN EVAR is a bit goofy, too.
I think it needs Interesting background/marketing text for new stuff.
Tell me what the source material for the new hotness was. Not just
"Space Marines, but evil."
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Post by: Sean_OBrien
Actual monthly magazines for hobbies/general interest and such, are pretty much all about the same price, namely, a fething rip off.
I get a lot of Hobby Magazines - for a lot of hobbies...and although some are close to the price of White Dwarf, the content is generally superior by far.
A good example which has an audience which is likely smaller (but is printed in rather high quality for a rag) is Continental Modeller:
http://www.pecopublications.co.uk/subscriptions/continental-modeller.html
£70 for 12 issues delivered to the US. Only £39 if you are in the UK though. Plus, you get free access to their digital version which works on iStuff as well as every other platform you can think of (including through normal web browsers).
Compare that to £55 for 12 issues of White Dwarf (£62 delivered to the US). Plus a digital subscription will set you back another £40.
At the regular newsstand prices, CM runs me $11. WD runs me $10.
I always get the impression that Wargames Illustrated treats sci-fi games as the black sheep of the family. It rarely has any content I like.
So check out Battlegames or Miniature Wargames
https://www.exacteditions.com/read/battlegames
https://www.exacteditions.com/read/miniature-wargames
There are actually more than those as well - though, checking out those two are easy...what with the free preview issues on the Exact Editions site. Miniature Wargames has a bit of sci-fi in each issue, and some issues are focused on it.
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Post by: Yodhrin
I think yesterday's White Dwarf Daily should put paid to any hopes that WD was going to return to anything resembling value for money; Tale of Four Gamers is back, but now it's called "Call to Arms", is an independent iPish digital download, and they expect you to pay for it.
GW have realised that there are people out there daft enough to pay them money for things they used to get for free(notice that the long devoid-of-content "Article" sections of the GW site have finally gone the way of the dodo?), or that they used to get as part of something else they paid for(and are now expected to pay more for sans those bits of content) - given their current corporate ethos, expecting anything better than WD's complete devolution into a glossy catalogue with all of its content put up piecemeal digitally at a few quid a pop is complete naivete.
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Post by: Flashman
 Yodhrin wrote:I think yesterday's White Dwarf Daily should put paid to any hopes that WD was going to return to anything resembling value for money; Tale of Four Gamers is back, but now it's called "Call to Arms", is an independent iPish digital download, and they expect you to pay for it.
Kind of thought this would happen. You pay for a catalogue and pay separately for individual articles.
I am genuinely expecting some kind of pay wall to appear on the GW website soon. It's the only way the company can get any more cynical.
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Post by: Rayvon
I bought it for a change, first time in about 20 years, its not what it used to be by a long shot, but i enjoyed it and it was no more expensive than other magazines that i buy.
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Post by: farmersboy
I finally got around to buying White Dwarf for the first time in 10 years, and what a waste of money. Text in a larger size for the partially sighted, more empty areas on any given page than ever before, and a large amount of content pulled right from GW websites.
Must have took them all of one afternoon to dream this 'revamp' up...
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Post by: Adam LongWalker
 farmersboy wrote:I finally got around to buying White Dwarf for the first time in 10 years, and what a waste of money. Text in a larger size for the partially sighted, more empty areas on any given page than ever before, and a large amount of content pulled right from GW websites.
Must have took them all of one afternoon to dream this 'revamp' up...
Ahh I'm glad you got this old publishing trick of increasing the pica size of the print as well as "blank" areas". Covers more area with less content. This is nothing new that I expect from GW ( and some of the other corporations I know of) these days.
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Post by: MeanGreenStompa
And yet... I just don't get why.
How difficult would it have been to actually, really improved the magazine. To have additional content that was not just advertising... because anyone with half a brain could see that it's ALL advertising and investment into the hobby, it continues or increases engagement and promotes the hobby further. Increased actual content would lead to an increase in sales, improved customer relations, reinvigoration of the hobby and improved takeup.
This smoke and mirrors must be around as expensive as an actual relaunch with content. I just don't understand what the harm in real content would have been, perhaps the upper management of the company is now so far from the hobbyists who started and led the company before that they don't even understand what they're selling any more.
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Post by: Petey88
I come on Dakka faithfully 2 or 3 times a day. I don't want to cause any problems, but this is what happened at my GW store when I picked up the new improved one. It's the 8th Street store in NYC.
1. I went to pick up my monthly script.
2. They told me I will no longer have a mag waiting there for me.
3. They gave me coupons, 9 bc thats how many mags I have left on the script.
4. They told me to make sure I don't lose them bc then I get no mag.
5. Each month I go in and get my mag and use a coupon for it. No prob. But I was told that if the mag sells out I can not get it that month. They don't do back issues anymore.
6. I was told that I can use the coupons and purchse 9 of the same mag if I wanted.
My response was that when I signed up for the subscription, it was so I can pick it up at the shop, and it will be there waiting-no selling out.
I'm kinda pissed about this.
Pedro Sierra-AKA Petey88-NYC
P.S. I think the new mag is amazing
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Post by: Aerethan
Petey88 wrote: I come on Dakka faithfully 2 or 3 times a day. I don't want to cause any problems, but this is what happened at my GW store when I picked up the new improved one. It's the 8th Street store in NYC.
1. I went to pick up my monthly script.
2. They told me I will no longer have a mag waiting there for me.
3. They gave me coupons, 9 bc thats how many mags I have left on the script.
4. They told me to make sure I don't lose them bc then I get no mag.
5. Each month I go in and get my mag and use a coupon for it. No prob. But I was told that if the mag sells out I can not get it that month. They don't do back issues anymore.
6. I was told that I can use the coupons and purchse 9 of the same mag if I wanted.
My response was that when I signed up for the subscription, it was so I can pick it up at the shop, and it will be there waiting-no selling out.
I'm kinda pissed about this.
Pedro Sierra-AKA Petey88-NYC
P.S. I think the new mag is amazing
Do you live under a bridge or in some other area that doesn't have a mail box?
Why on earth would you have your subscription sent to the store instead of your home? That sketchy goth kid down the hall stealing it every month?
Don't get me wrong, the coupon deal you describe is utter crap, but why not just have it delivered?
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Post by: helium42
 d-usa wrote: Redbeard wrote: d-usa wrote:Ads are a part of every magazine though.
Every other magazine we end up paying $8 for the privilege of reading ads that somebody else already paid for.
Most other magazines aren't $8. Most other magazines are cheaper, because the ads pay for the content and you're just buying the medium.
White Dwarf is a rip off because they don't operate like a magazine. Magazines pay for content with ads and the buyer pays for the medium and the delivery. White Dwarf has no outside advertising, and has to pay for the content somehow. So they charge you for both the content and the ads and the medium. White Dwarf's cover price is double what any other magazine charges, and their subscription plan is a whopping 17% savings, where industry standard is closer to 66%. $10/month is a lot to spend on some pictures to look at while crapping.
So you admit that other magazines have a subsidized price because of ads. So White Dwarf is a ripoff because you have to pay the money that they don't make by not having outside ads? You admit that they don't have any ad income, and then complain that the price is double that of other magazines (who have ad income).
The reason other subscriptions are cheaper is also because of ads. They use the guaranteed "x subscribers" to charge more for ads, they have an incentive to have a guaranteed number of magazines sold each month so that they can charge more (and make more income). Since White Dwarf doesn't have ads, that doesn't work.
WD has ads. It shouldn't matter if the ads are their own or somebody else's. What WD is trying to do is sell us a magazine at a premium cost and have us pay for the very ads we are so privileged to see. GW should pay the magazine out of it's advertising budget ( lol) and then the magazine could be sold at an appropriate cost to the consumer.
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Post by: Surtur
I don't get it, what has changed about the magazine exactly? I haven't been able to go down to a store and look at it yet, but so far it sounds like they just prettied it up.
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Post by: Sidstyler
 Aerethan wrote:Why on earth would you have your subscription sent to the store instead of your home? That sketchy goth kid down the hall stealing it every month?
If you live in an apartment building like I do then yeah, having stuff delivered isn't usually a good idea. If it's bigger than a standard letter then it won't fit in the mail box, so it gets dropped by your door. And it doesn't matter what it is, if it's laying there in the hallway, someone's going to take it. And sometimes I don't think the mailman even knocks, I once had a package turn up missing even though the USPS website said it was delivered at a time and date when I was at home, funnily enough, waiting for the damn package. Was basically told "tough luck man."
So I don't use USPS anymore if I can help it, and if I have to buy something online I usually have it shipped to my dad if at all possible.
 Surtur wrote:I don't get it, what has changed about the magazine exactly? I haven't been able to go down to a store and look at it yet, but so far it sounds like they just prettied it up.
Yeah, pretty much. From what I can tell the rumors of a "new" White Dwarf with actual content were bogus. It just got a new cover and pictures with a red filter over the lighting.
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Post by: -Loki-
Surtur wrote:I don't get it, what has changed about the magazine exactly? I haven't been able to go down to a store and look at it yet, but so far it sounds like they just prettied it up.
Not much changed. As you said, they just prettied it up. But I'm willing to give it a shot - they put the effort in to get a new team to do it rather than keeping it internal, so there's some hope. If they haven't turned it around in a few months, I'll start giving it a miss again.
I think the part that impressed me the most was the paper they used for the pages and cover. It no longer feels like a mailout catalogue.
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Post by: spaceelf
With the release of the new Chaos Codex, White Dwarf looks like a real bargain. The codex has 104 pages for 50 bucks. WD is 'only' 10.
Of course most people will not be fooled by this nonsense, as both are ridiculously overpriced. It was only about a year ago when a codex was 25.
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Post by: Backfire
 spaceelf wrote:With the release of the new Chaos Codex, White Dwarf looks like a real bargain. The codex has 104 pages for 50 bucks. WD is 'only' 10.
Of course most people will not be fooled by this nonsense, as both are ridiculously overpriced. It was only about a year ago when a codex was 25.
25 euros, perhaps.
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Post by: d-usa
 helium42 wrote: d-usa wrote: Redbeard wrote: d-usa wrote:Ads are a part of every magazine though.
Every other magazine we end up paying $8 for the privilege of reading ads that somebody else already paid for.
Most other magazines aren't $8. Most other magazines are cheaper, because the ads pay for the content and you're just buying the medium.
White Dwarf is a rip off because they don't operate like a magazine. Magazines pay for content with ads and the buyer pays for the medium and the delivery. White Dwarf has no outside advertising, and has to pay for the content somehow. So they charge you for both the content and the ads and the medium. White Dwarf's cover price is double what any other magazine charges, and their subscription plan is a whopping 17% savings, where industry standard is closer to 66%. $10/month is a lot to spend on some pictures to look at while crapping.
So you admit that other magazines have a subsidized price because of ads. So White Dwarf is a ripoff because you have to pay the money that they don't make by not having outside ads? You admit that they don't have any ad income, and then complain that the price is double that of other magazines (who have ad income).
The reason other subscriptions are cheaper is also because of ads. They use the guaranteed "x subscribers" to charge more for ads, they have an incentive to have a guaranteed number of magazines sold each month so that they can charge more (and make more income). Since White Dwarf doesn't have ads, that doesn't work.
WD has ads. It shouldn't matter if the ads are their own or somebody else's. What WD is trying to do is sell us a magazine at a premium cost and have us pay for the very ads we are so privileged to see. GW should pay the magazine out of it's advertising budget ( lol) and then the magazine could be sold at an appropriate cost to the consumer.
It does matter who places the ads.
1) you are paying to read the ads no matter what magazine you pick up.
2) other magazines have their price subsidized by charging companies for ads.
3) there is no additional income from selling ads at WD
Every magazine you read is full of ads. The only difference with WD is that the ads don't subsidize the magazine and they are much more noticeable because they are all on the same subject.
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Post by: Petey88
The reason I did it is so I can go to the Shop at least once a month. My mailbox does actually hold mail. If my 87 year old neighbor is Goth, when in the hell didn't she tell me! Maybe we can share some music. Nah, I did it to go to the shop to see friends and catch up with whatever is the new Hotness there.
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Post by: d-usa
Leave your house?
But the outside, the sun, the brightness, it burns!
17884
Post by: Petey88
So sorry about that. I posted this about the New White Dwarf:
Petey88 wrote:
I come on Dakka faithfully 2 or 3 times a day. I don't want to cause any problems, but this is what happened at my GW store when I picked up the new improved one. It's the 8th Street store in NYC.
1. I went to pick up my monthly script.
2. They told me I will no longer have a mag waiting there for me.
3. They gave me coupons, 9 bc thats how many mags I have left on the script.
4. They told me to make sure I don't lose them bc then I get no mag.
5. Each month I go in and get my mag and use a coupon for it. No prob. But I was told that if the mag sells out I can not get it that month. They don't do back issues anymore.
6. I was told that I can use the coupons and purchse 9 of the same mag if I wanted.
My response was that when I signed up for the subscription, it was so I can pick it up at the shop, and it will be there waiting-no selling out.
I'm kinda pissed about this.
Pedro Sierra-AKA Petey88-NYC
P.S. I think the new mag is amazing
Then someone replied about a working mailbox, or a Goth Kid stealing my Mag. I was just pointing out why I did the in store subscription.
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Post by: d-usa
I was just trying to be sarcastic...
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Post by: Petey88
My bad dude. As you can see I'm new to the whole posting thing. I makinly read and look for info.
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Post by: Pacific
MeanGreenStompa wrote:And yet... I just don't get why.
How difficult would it have been to actually, really improved the magazine. To have additional content that was not just advertising... because anyone with half a brain could see that it's ALL advertising and investment into the hobby, it continues or increases engagement and promotes the hobby further. Increased actual content would lead to an increase in sales, improved customer relations, reinvigoration of the hobby and improved takeup.
This smoke and mirrors must be around as expensive as an actual relaunch with content. I just don't understand what the harm in real content would have been, perhaps the upper management of the company is now so far from the hobbyists who started and led the company before that they don't even understand what they're selling any more.
It's because GW is now (and to quote here from a well known developer who left Atari, a company in which a similar transformation took place) "populated by suits on all levels". There is no focus at all on producing something good, at excelling at something for it's own sense of fulfilment and the ability to make something special and give enjoyment of that to others, it is all focused around hitting that bottom line and margin.
Anyone who stays within the company has to either follow the almost Evangelical level of zeal towards GW and its products, resulting in the 'yes man' culture we can now see, and those with any ability towards independent thought and criticism have long since departed, perhaps with the exception of a few creative types who can occasionally squeeze out a winner despite the oppressive 'sales or nothing' mandate operated by the upper management (such as the Dark Eldar range). The line from Kirby at a previous company address, "Oh ye of little faith", I think speaks volumes about the kind of business culture that exists - vaguely religious or cult-ish sounding.
The problem with all of this is that while it leads to a strictly controlled hierarchy within the company, ultimately it is inefficient and can damage the economic and developmental strength of the company; the Finecast QC issues, the lack of new ideas and concepts, lack of use of new technology, the antagonism towards FLGS and other sale avenues, lack of marketing. And now a new WD that is both deeply disappointing but, if we were honest with ourselves, in actual fact is completely expected to anyone who has charted the progress of GW over the last ten years or so. They weren't going to rectify a problem if, in the minds of the people putting together the targets for the magazine, no problem exists.
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Post by: Breotan
The current issue was a nice improvement over the previous just on the "clean up" alone. But complaints about lack of promised content are valid. Yes, the battle report is better than previous but that's not why I (used to) buy WD.
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