Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Got it, and liked most of the changes. The battle reports are more detailed. I like that they finally did away with the simplistic charts showing movements and kills, replacing them with more photos. Someone mentioned the goofy gamers being a distraction in the photos, but I didn't even notice. Honestly, if they looked deeply concerned and competitive, it would be a turn-off, because it just isn't very fun playing against the hyper-competitive.

Love the section on the concept art and the development of the new Chaos stuff. Hope to see more of that.

Biggest downside for me was that the magazine seems...darker. The photos, while clear, seemed darker than usual. I didn't care for the liberal use of tan pages. That's a personal complaint, though. I'm colorblind, and things just get muddy looking for me fast.

Didn't try the digital version, but that's likely how I'll get it from now on. The magazine's print quality is amazing, best I've ever seen, but I'm a hopeless slave to my iPad, and it must feed...

I want more Kitbash. Conversions have been one of the most interesting aspects of this game, and it looks like WD is starting to acknowledge that. The article highlighting Space Marine conversions last month was a real treat, too.

Nothing seemed different to me. Really.....just a glorified catalog with a batrep and some interviews.

Ok, I had a flick through myself today, though rather irritatingly, I had to remove it from the wrapping in the shop first.

I can't argue that it looks very well put together, but while the content is indeed a marginal improvement on last month, it's not a patch on what they used to do even 12 months ago.

I have now officially stopped buying White Dwarf and won't purchase another copy until some effort is made to include significantly more hobby and gaming articles.

Ads are a part of every magazine though.

Every other magazine we end up paying $8 for the privilege of reading ads that somebody else already paid for.

 d-usa wrote:
Ads are a part of every magazine though.

Every other magazine we end up paying $8 for the privilege of reading ads that somebody else already paid for.

Most other magazines aren't $8. Most other magazines are cheaper, because the ads pay for the content and you're just buying the medium.

Some examples:
Time: Cover price: $4.50. Yearly subscription (56 magazines): $30
Sports Illustrated: 56 issues for $29 Cover price:
Cosmopolitan (glossy, all-ad magazine) - 12 issues for $15 (Cover price: $4)
The New Yorker: 47 issues for $70 (cover price: $5)
Vanity Fair: 12 issues for $20 ($5 cover price)

Some other subscriptions prices, from amazon:
Maxim - $1.25/issue
Playboy - $1.33/issue
Popular Science - $1/issue
Popular Mechanics - $1/issue
Entertainment Weekly - $.48/issue

White Dwarf is a rip off because they don't operate like a magazine. Magazines pay for content with ads and the buyer pays for the medium and the delivery. White Dwarf has no outside advertising, and has to pay for the content somehow. So they charge you for both the content and the ads and the medium. White Dwarf's cover price is double what any other magazine charges, and their subscription plan is a whopping 17% savings, where industry standard is closer to 66%. $10/month is a lot to spend on some pictures to look at while crapping.

 Redbeard wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Ads are a part of every magazine though.

Every other magazine we end up paying $8 for the privilege of reading ads that somebody else already paid for.

Most other magazines aren't $8. Most other magazines are cheaper, because the ads pay for the content and you're just buying the medium.
White Dwarf is a rip off because they don't operate like a magazine. Magazines pay for content with ads and the buyer pays for the medium and the delivery. White Dwarf has no outside advertising, and has to pay for the content somehow. So they charge you for both the content and the ads and the medium. White Dwarf's cover price is double what any other magazine charges, and their subscription plan is a whopping 17% savings, where industry standard is closer to 66%. $10/month is a lot to spend on some pictures to look at while crapping.

So you admit that other magazines have a subsidized price because of ads. So White Dwarf is a ripoff because you have to pay the money that they don't make by not having outside ads? You admit that they don't have any ad income, and then complain that the price is double that of other magazines (who have ad income).

The reason other subscriptions are cheaper is also because of ads. They use the guaranteed "x subscribers" to charge more for ads, they have an incentive to have a guaranteed number of magazines sold each month so that they can charge more (and make more income). Since White Dwarf doesn't have ads, that doesn't work.

 Redbeard wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Ads are a part of every magazine though.

Every other magazine we end up paying $8 for the privilege of reading ads that somebody else already paid for.

Most other magazines aren't $8. Most other magazines are cheaper, because the ads pay for the content and you're just buying the medium.

Some examples:
Time: Cover price: $4.50. Yearly subscription (56 magazines): $30
Sports Illustrated: 56 issues for $29 Cover price:
Cosmopolitan (glossy, all-ad magazine) - 12 issues for $15 (Cover price: $4)
The New Yorker: 47 issues for $70 (cover price: $5)
Vanity Fair: 12 issues for $20 ($5 cover price)

Some other subscriptions prices, from amazon:
Maxim - $1.25/issue
Playboy - $1.33/issue
Popular Science - $1/issue
Popular Mechanics - $1/issue
Entertainment Weekly - $.48/issue

White Dwarf is a rip off because they don't operate like a magazine. Magazines pay for content with ads and the buyer pays for the medium and the delivery. White Dwarf has no outside advertising, and has to pay for the content somehow. So they charge you for both the content and the ads and the medium. White Dwarf's cover price is double what any other magazine charges, and their subscription plan is a whopping 17% savings, where industry standard is closer to 66%. $10/month is a lot to spend on some pictures to look at while crapping.

Industry standard?

Your example was extremely crude, you cant just pick "magazines" and then shot some prices up. Especially for weekly/news based ones, they are always much cheaper! The Economist is one of my favourites, I wouldn't expect to pay as much as a WD for it. Actual monthly magazines for hobbies/general interest and such, are pretty much all about the same price, namely, a fething rip off. Have you seen the price of gak like FHM?

I occasionally read gym/running/cycling magazines, they are all the same price roughly as WD, and as D said, they make actual cash off ads. FHM and Esquire and such are literally 50% adverts, that they get paid for printing.

Anyway, as I have said many times, I agree with you on the main point, I wont sub to WD, because I agree its not worth the money, but don't start sounding like one of the infantile "haters" we see on here so often and needlessly rag on things because you can. There are numerous good reasons to not buy WD, but "some magazines are cheaper" is a really crappy one for the simple fact that some magazines are more expensive as well.

If GW would be a little more open to 3rd party advertisers, maybe White Dwarf might get lowered in price

But we can dream...

Honestly what ticked me off the most is that the magazine was the weight and thickness of a 5th ed codex. for roughly 1/3rd the price of said codex. I'll admit the pages are not the same, but still, for 10 dollars you can give me a full color glossy magazine, but I have to pat 33 to get slightly better binding, page thickness and thicker cover?

It glowed an awesome glow of "oooh shiny" and then I went home and realized that it just wasn't worth the price for the content in it...

Nobody pointed out the new book smell 3:

But yeah, its a step in the right direction, but it still isn't That good. When they start having less pointless stuff in it and have less than 50(!) pages of release pictures which most of us already saw a week ago and start with more actual content, I will be happy.

Anyone see the inquisitorial warband that was near the back? It was pretty neat. I liked that.

And yeah, as one person had said, the structure is really weird. Why there is a second contents page at the back of the book I don't, and kind of want to know.

d-usa wrote:
So you admit that other magazines have a subsidized price because of ads. So White Dwarf is a ripoff because you have to pay the money that they don't make by not having outside ads? You admit that they don't have any ad income, and then complain that the price is double that of other magazines (who have ad income).

You seem to be mistaking cause and effect.

White Dwarf is more expensive because they lack outside advertisements. This is a cause. It's easily explainable.

The effect is that White Dwarf costs substantially more than most other magazines, without having any more content (it could be argued that it has even less content, as half their content is just glorified ads). When you have to pay twice the normal rate for content, that's a ripoff.

Just because we can explain why it's a ripoff doesn't mean it isn't one. It's just a poor business model.

mattyrm wrote:
Industry standard?

Your example was extremely crude, you cant just pick "magazines" and then shot some prices up.

I didn't just pick some, I grabbed some names I knew off amazon's magazine subscription page. It's publicly available, feel free to peruse it if you want. The point is, I didn't cherry-pick low-cost magazines to use in the example, I took a handful from a page without even considering their cost, and they're all at least half the price of WD. The other ones available are also similarly priced.

Especially for weekly/news based ones, they are always much cheaper!

so you're saying we should expect hobby magazines to be more expensive? Here's the amazon page for those:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_n_27?rh=n:599858,k:magazines,n:!599872,n:769100&bbn=599872&keywords=magazines&ie=UTF8&qid=1348778336&rnid=599872

Wood Design & Building: $5.50/issue
Watercolor Artist: $3.66/issue
KnitSimple: $5/issue
Crochet Today: $3.32/issue
Model Railroader: $3.58/issue

They're ALL half the price of WD. Even the hobby ones.

The Economist is one of my favourites, I wouldn't expect to pay as much as a WD for it. Actual monthly magazines for hobbies/general interest and such, are pretty much all about the same price, namely, a fething rip off. Have you seen the price of gak like FHM?

Since you asked,
The Economist: $2.49
FHM: - Doesn't seem to be in the US.

I occasionally read gym/running/cycling magazines, they are all the same price roughly as WD, and as D said, they make actual cash off ads. FHM and Esquire and such are literally 50% adverts, that they get paid for printing.

Esquire: 11 issue subscription for $8 ($.73/issue)

Anyway, as I have said many times, I agree with you on the main point, I wont sub to WD, because I agree its not worth the money, but don't start sounding like one of the infantile "haters" we see on here so often and needlessly rag on things because you can. There are numerous good reasons to not buy WD, but "some magazines are cheaper" is a really crappy one for the simple fact that some magazines are more expensive as well.

I didn't see one. Granted, I didn't spend that much time browsing the site and I'm sure that of the 38,000 magazine subscriptions they show in their search results, one or two are probably more expensive than White Dwarf.

 d-usa wrote:

 Redbeard wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Ads are a part of every magazine though.

Every other magazine we end up paying $8 for the privilege of reading ads that somebody else already paid for.

Most other magazines aren't $8. Most other magazines are cheaper, because the ads pay for the content and you're just buying the medium.
White Dwarf is a rip off because they don't operate like a magazine. Magazines pay for content with ads and the buyer pays for the medium and the delivery. White Dwarf has no outside advertising, and has to pay for the content somehow. So they charge you for both the content and the ads and the medium. White Dwarf's cover price is double what any other magazine charges, and their subscription plan is a whopping 17% savings, where industry standard is closer to 66%. $10/month is a lot to spend on some pictures to look at while crapping.

So you admit that other magazines have a subsidized price because of ads. So White Dwarf is a ripoff because you have to pay the money that they don't make by not having outside ads? You admit that they don't have any ad income, and then complain that the price is double that of other magazines (who have ad income).

The reason other subscriptions are cheaper is also because of ads. They use the guaranteed "x subscribers" to charge more for ads, they have an incentive to have a guaranteed number of magazines sold each month so that they can charge more (and make more income). Since White Dwarf doesn't have ads, that doesn't work.

The problem is they DO still have ads, even though they aren't being payed for by third parties. I have no problem with the price. It's the lack of content, or advertising disguised as content that makes it worthless for me, no matter how pretty they make it. If they want me to buy it, put some content I can use in it rather than spend 70% of the magazine trying to tell me how awesome their models are. Campagin scenarios and fluff, more detailed painting guides and general painting articles, conversion step by steps and how-tos, meaningful tactics discussions and battle reports that are more than "this unit is awesome because it's our new model we are pushing", articles discussing fluff and/or short stories. This is content I would pay for.

I like the new WD.

It's got more content, as well as a some hobby and gaming articles that look like they'll be in every month. The Battle Reports aren't that much of an improvement in my opinion, content-wise, but they do look much better. It's even nice to see GW have included a list of all new releases WITH THE PRICES

So, I guess if GW can keep it up with all the news articles and including good content in them, it'll certainly be worth buying, even with the pound price increase.

 Redbeard wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Ads are a part of every magazine though.

Every other magazine we end up paying $8 for the privilege of reading ads that somebody else already paid for.

Most other magazines aren't $8. Most other magazines are cheaper, because the ads pay for the content and you're just buying the medium.

No, most magazines I buy don't cost $8. They cost more than that. Air International costs like 9 to 10 euros, ditto for Combat Aircraft, my local aviation magazine costs 8.50 euros a piece...gun rags cost between 7 to 9 euros each, model kit hobby magazine costs 12.50 euros (!!).

Backfire wrote:

 Redbeard wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Ads are a part of every magazine though.

Every other magazine we end up paying $8 for the privilege of reading ads that somebody else already paid for.

Most other magazines aren't $8. Most other magazines are cheaper, because the ads pay for the content and you're just buying the medium.

No, most magazines I buy don't cost $8. They cost more than that. Air International costs like 9 to 10 euros, ditto for Combat Aircraft, my local aviation magazine costs 8.50 euros a piece...gun rags cost between 7 to 9 euros each, model kit hobby magazine costs 12.50 euros (!!).

Three things you have forgotten.

1. You live in finland. Sure Finland isn't down under but Finland is one of the most expensive coutries in EU. Our vat is like 25-30%. GW doesn't take take VAT into account like other shops. They have their own insane pricing ideas.

2. Most hobby magazines around here cost 8 euros due to small market. PC Gamer costs about 7-8, Pelit costs 6... Donald Duck (while not a hobby magazine) costs 2,5.

3. WD is lacking content which lowers the euro per content ratio while other magazines are not. I haven't read the new WD but the dakkajet issue has loads of ads, 1 painting tutorial 3 times and a phone catalog. Pelit (a finnish gaming magazine) has 80 pages but pretty much all of them have articles with loads of text. Basically one article in Pelit has the same amount of text as the entire WD.

Graphite wrote:
Bad: The font size in the article looks huge, and there's a MASSIVE WHITE SPACE in the bottom right corner of the page. I though we now had Supar 133t magazine producing gurus working on this thing, why chunks of white space?

LOL. WD needed a little white space. For years and years, their approach seemed to be to fill every millimeter of the mag with stale photos or rambling copy. The mag is finally getting some air, and doesn't look like something from 1993 anymore.

Overall, I like most of their choices. It was very interesting to me to see some more competitive content...perhaps vets and mid-level hobbyists are welcome after all? I think the main thing it's missing is a dedicated hobby section. (Hint to lurking WD staff: Do a series on converting the GW plastic terrain for various armies and environments.) I get the feeling they weren't trying to blow their wad on the first issue, and that we can expect refinements and different types of content in time.

I haven't subscribed in many years and probably still won't (if I had a GW store near me, I might have considered it). But I'll probably pick it up a little more often, especially since it seems like we can expect rules to appear in it once in a while. So to the new WD team -- nice job! I look forward to seeing what else you have in store for us.

 Flashman wrote:
Ok, I had a flick through myself today, though rather irritatingly, I had to remove it from the wrapping in the shop first.

This alone is why every gaming store should have a store copy of the newest White Dwarf for anyone to flick through. There is nothing worse than buying the new issue to learn it has very little value in it.

I happened to flick through Wargames Illustrated today as well. It's their 30th Anniversary issue, only 50 pence more than this month's WD and nearly 300 pages in length. Interesting reading too (including an amusing jab at GW about their anxieties over 3D printers).

 Flashman wrote:
I happened to flick through Wargames Illustrated today as well. It's their 30th Anniversary issue, only 50 pence more than this month's WD and nearly 300 pages in length. Interesting reading too (including an amusing jab at GW about their anxieties over 3D printers).

I always get the impression that Wargames Illustrated treats sci-fi games as the black sheep of the family. It rarely has any content I like.

Whereas I really enjoyed this months White Dwarf.

Between the new White Dwarf and this month's Wargames Illustrated? Haha. It wasn't much of a choice.

Are GW Marketing registered on Dakka now?

I'm skipping everything to say this:

The marketing blurbs on the new Chaos product is extremely
simple. I know they market to newer people, but telling even a
new person that the Chaos techmarine is what you get when you
corrupt a loyalist techmarine seems kind of asinine. Also,
repeating over and over that the sculpt in Finecast is BETTER
THAN EVAR is a bit goofy, too.

I think it needs Interesting background/marketing text for new stuff.
Tell me what the source material for the new hotness was. Not just
"Space Marines, but evil."

Actual monthly magazines for hobbies/general interest and such, are pretty much all about the same price, namely, a fething rip off.

I get a lot of Hobby Magazines - for a lot of hobbies...and although some are close to the price of White Dwarf, the content is generally superior by far.

A good example which has an audience which is likely smaller (but is printed in rather high quality for a rag) is Continental Modeller:

http://www.pecopublications.co.uk/subscriptions/continental-modeller.html

£70 for 12 issues delivered to the US. Only £39 if you are in the UK though. Plus, you get free access to their digital version which works on iStuff as well as every other platform you can think of (including through normal web browsers).

Compare that to £55 for 12 issues of White Dwarf (£62 delivered to the US). Plus a digital subscription will set you back another £40.

At the regular newsstand prices, CM runs me $11. WD runs me $10.

I always get the impression that Wargames Illustrated treats sci-fi games as the black sheep of the family. It rarely has any content I like.

So check out Battlegames or Miniature Wargames

https://www.exacteditions.com/read/battlegames

https://www.exacteditions.com/read/miniature-wargames

There are actually more than those as well - though, checking out those two are easy...what with the free preview issues on the Exact Editions site. Miniature Wargames has a bit of sci-fi in each issue, and some issues are focused on it.

I think yesterday's White Dwarf Daily should put paid to any hopes that WD was going to return to anything resembling value for money; Tale of Four Gamers is back, but now it's called "Call to Arms", is an independent iPish digital download, and they expect you to pay for it.

GW have realised that there are people out there daft enough to pay them money for things they used to get for free(notice that the long devoid-of-content "Article" sections of the GW site have finally gone the way of the dodo?), or that they used to get as part of something else they paid for(and are now expected to pay more for sans those bits of content) - given their current corporate ethos, expecting anything better than WD's complete devolution into a glossy catalogue with all of its content put up piecemeal digitally at a few quid a pop is complete naivete.

 Yodhrin wrote:
I think yesterday's White Dwarf Daily should put paid to any hopes that WD was going to return to anything resembling value for money; Tale of Four Gamers is back, but now it's called "Call to Arms", is an independent iPish digital download, and they expect you to pay for it.

Kind of thought this would happen. You pay for a catalogue and pay separately for individual articles.

I am genuinely expecting some kind of pay wall to appear on the GW website soon. It's the only way the company can get any more cynical.

I bought it for a change, first time in about 20 years, its not what it used to be by a long shot, but i enjoyed it and it was no more expensive than other magazines that i buy.

I finally got around to buying White Dwarf for the first time in 10 years, and what a waste of money. Text in a larger size for the partially sighted, more empty areas on any given page than ever before, and a large amount of content pulled right from GW websites.

Must have took them all of one afternoon to dream this 'revamp' up...

 farmersboy wrote:
I finally got around to buying White Dwarf for the first time in 10 years, and what a waste of money. Text in a larger size for the partially sighted, more empty areas on any given page than ever before, and a large amount of content pulled right from GW websites.

Must have took them all of one afternoon to dream this 'revamp' up...

Ahh I'm glad you got this old publishing trick of increasing the pica size of the print as well as "blank" areas". Covers more area with less content. This is nothing new that I expect from GW ( and some of the other corporations I know of) these days.

And yet... I just don't get why.

How difficult would it have been to actually, really improved the magazine. To have additional content that was not just advertising... because anyone with half a brain could see that it's ALL advertising and investment into the hobby, it continues or increases engagement and promotes the hobby further. Increased actual content would lead to an increase in sales, improved customer relations, reinvigoration of the hobby and improved takeup.

This smoke and mirrors must be around as expensive as an actual relaunch with content. I just don't understand what the harm in real content would have been, perhaps the upper management of the company is now so far from the hobbyists who started and led the company before that they don't even understand what they're selling any more.

I come on Dakka faithfully 2 or 3 times a day. I don't want to cause any problems, but this is what happened at my GW store when I picked up the new improved one. It's the 8th Street store in NYC.
1. I went to pick up my monthly script.
2. They told me I will no longer have a mag waiting there for me.
3. They gave me coupons, 9 bc thats how many mags I have left on the script.
4. They told me to make sure I don't lose them bc then I get no mag.
5. Each month I go in and get my mag and use a coupon for it. No prob. But I was told that if the mag sells out I can not get it that month. They don't do back issues anymore.
6. I was told that I can use the coupons and purchse 9 of the same mag if I wanted.
My response was that when I signed up for the subscription, it was so I can pick it up at the shop, and it will be there waiting-no selling out.
I'm kinda pissed about this.
Pedro Sierra-AKA Petey88-NYC

P.S. I think the new mag is amazing

Petey88 wrote:
I come on Dakka faithfully 2 or 3 times a day. I don't want to cause any problems, but this is what happened at my GW store when I picked up the new improved one. It's the 8th Street store in NYC.
1. I went to pick up my monthly script.
2. They told me I will no longer have a mag waiting there for me.
3. They gave me coupons, 9 bc thats how many mags I have left on the script.
4. They told me to make sure I don't lose them bc then I get no mag.
5. Each month I go in and get my mag and use a coupon for it. No prob. But I was told that if the mag sells out I can not get it that month. They don't do back issues anymore.
6. I was told that I can use the coupons and purchse 9 of the same mag if I wanted.
My response was that when I signed up for the subscription, it was so I can pick it up at the shop, and it will be there waiting-no selling out.
I'm kinda pissed about this.
Pedro Sierra-AKA Petey88-NYC

P.S. I think the new mag is amazing

Do you live under a bridge or in some other area that doesn't have a mail box?

Why on earth would you have your subscription sent to the store instead of your home? That sketchy goth kid down the hall stealing it every month?

Don't get me wrong, the coupon deal you describe is utter crap, but why not just have it delivered?