Well, it looks like there have been some major developments in that “I give God 10%” receipt story: The alleged “pastor” is real and the server who posted the photo has been fired.
A photo posted to Reddit on Tuesday by a user named “GateFlan,” who claims to be a St. Louis-area server, shows how an alleged “pastor” reacted to the restaurant’s automatic gratuity policy:
Courtesy KTVI
“I give God 10% — why do you get 18?” the customer wrote on the receipt, signing it “Pastor [redacted].”
“My mistake sir, I’m sure Jesus will pay for my rent and groceries,” the Reddit user posted along with the above photo.
The “pastor,” who had the server separate the bill for the group’s 20 members, was reportedly unhappy that the restaurant included an automatic gratuity of 18 percent on the party’s bill.
When we first reported this story, we cautioned that the photo might be part of a hoax designed to stir up some sort of anti-Christian, anti-religious sentiment (as people have pulled similar cons in the past). But it turns out the story is authentic. The pastor is very much a real person, she very much left a “snide” comment on her Applebee’s receipt, she very much complained to management about the Reddit photo, and the waitress is now very much unemployed.
Pastor Alois Bell (Smoking Gun)
“A pastor says when she left a snide comment on a receipt, she did use bad judgement, but she did leave a tip,” a Fox News affiliate in St. Louis reports
“My heart is really broken,” said Pastor Alois Bell. “I’ve brought embarrassment to my church and ministry.”
The 37-year-old pastor explains herself: “What [the photo] didn’t show is the money that I left and that we all left on the table.”
Pastor Bell claims she left $6.29 on the table and her credit card was also charged the tip amount. She also says everyone in the party left cash tips.
“I’ve actually been harassed because of this and it doesn’t tell the whole story,” said Pastor Bell, adding that although her comment may have been in poor taste, she and her ministry do good work in the community and “would never want to tarnish the light of Christianity.”
And what of the Reddit user who posted the photo?
Pastor Bell said she called up the Applebee’s to complain about the “dissemination of her receipt,” as the Smoking Gun puts it, and was told in a follow-up conversation that the waitress was “immediately terminated” by management.
UPDATE — The Reddit user, Chelsea, tells the Consumerist a little more about the situation:
“I originally posted the note as a lighthearted joke,” says Chelsea, who was dismissed from her job at Applebee’s on Wednesday, as the story began to spread across the Internet. “I thought the note was insulting, but it was also comical. I posted it to Reddit because I thought other users would find it entertaining.”
Chelsea tells Consumerist that the receipt was actually not even for her table. Rather, the server on the receiving end of the note showed it to Chelsea, who snapped a photo of it later that night.
But wait! There’s more [emphasis added]:
Some time on Wednesday, Chelsea says the customer who had left the receipt contacted her Applebee’s location, demanding that everyone be fired, from the servers involved to the managers.
Seriously?
“We make $3.50 an hour. Most of my paychecks are less than pocket change because I have to pay taxes on the tips I make,” Chelsea said, explaining why Pastor Bell’s note got her so hot under the collar. “After sharing my tips with hosts, bussers, and bartenders, I make less than $9/hr on average, before taxes.”
“I am expected to portray a canned personality that has been found to be least offensive to the greatest amount of people,” she adds. “I come home exhausted, sore, burnt, dirty, and blistered on a good day. And after all that, I can be fired for ‘embarrassing’ someone who directly insults their server on religious grounds.”
For its part, Applebee’s has released the following statement:
Our Guests’ personal information – including their meal check – is private, and neither Applebee’s nor its franchisees have a right to share this information publicly. We value our Guests’ trust above all else. Our franchisee has apologized to the Guest and has taken disciplinary action with the Team Member for violating their Guest’s right to privacy. This individual is no longer employed by the franchisee.
Here's a new story. Pastor writes an unpleasant note on her receipt at an Applebee's(and doesn't do tip in credit, claims to have tipped in cash). Receipt gets posted on Reddit. Server now fired.
Heard about this, yes she should have been fired, good to see it was for posting the receipt and not for the comment attached. That's sharing what the customer would have assumed was private information between them and the retailer, and not to have that privacy disturbed without reasonable cause.
Being a waiter in America must really suck donkey schlong.
Saw this earlier. Pastor's actions are pretty typical of how I perceive most church leaders to be. Although I do find it quite funny that as the leader of her own church, she only gives 10% to the Lord. That seems a little low. I'm pretty sure most sports team captains will uniformly tell you they give 110% to their teams.
I suspect that the Internet will deliver blissful and cathartic retribution within the month.
EDIT: @Ratbard > do you really feel like someone's reprehensible and dickish moves ought to be carried out without fear of being shamed publicly for their wanton and knowingly-bad actions?
Yes if there is an implied contract between the service provider and its customer's, and the employees of the provider break said contract.
I mean, if someone posted your receipt from the stag shop you'ld be pretty pissed, regardless of whether or not you did anything jerk-offish. There is the expectation that all financial transactions will remain private between the purchaser and provider. She broke that expectation, it was unprofessional, and likely strictly against company policy.
Ratbarf wrote:Yes if there is an implied contract between the service provider and its customer's, and the employees of the provider break said contract.
I mean, if someone posted your receipt from the stag shop you'ld be pretty pissed, regardless of whether or not you did anything jerk-offish. There is the expectation that all financial transactions will remain private between the purchaser and provider. She broke that expectation, it was unprofessional, and likely strictly against company policy.
I don't think there is a reasonable expectation of privacy such as you are implying. That's why credit card info is blanked-out on receipts.
Additionally, according to the story, it was a party of 20+ which carried with it an automatic gratuity charge of 18%, as per Applebee's policy. The article states that the Pastor tried to avoid paying that fee by splitting up the bill, despite there being a single-payer. That means the Pastor has perpetrated a dine-and-dash, of which a typical in-house punishment is to post a photo of the perpetrator in the restaurant with a warning not to serve them anymore as a result of their offense. This is done to bring light to the offender's bad action, and no different than posting evidence of such on a social media site.
The implied contract that you speak of is more of the social contract that we all tacitly agree to. The Pastor broke this contract first when she refused to tip her waitress. Once one party has broken the social contract, there is no need nor reason for the other party to continue to uphold their end. I've said it before, and I will say it again:
Once the social contract has been broken, only Thunderdome remains.
And using the single most powerful communication tool the world has ever seen to publicly shame a community figurehead seems like a perfectly reasonable action to take, given that she could have been tackled and pinned to the ground until the police arrived, given that the Pastor had dined-and-dashed.
EDIT: Also, the fact that you are comparing the apparent shame of purchasing goods from a stag shop to the shame at having eaten at Applebee's is not lost on me. However, I'll even continue with your example (despite my strict don't-buy-stuff-you'd-be-ashamed-off policy). I don't have a RIGHT to privacy in my transaction beyond my credit card info. A business may protect my privacy and as such I'll continue to do business with them, just as much as I may choose not to do business with someone that does not protect my privacy.
The Pastor has not perpitrated a dine and dash, nor have I seen anyone alleging they did. In addition, if it had been an official response it would have been done by the manager or higher up. The employee committed several actions which would be grounds to fire her from any regular restaurant or service position such as cashier or bus boy.
And the blanked out credit card info is because they aren't stupid, it doesn't mean the implied contract is not understood.
Ratbarf wrote:The Pastor has not perpitrated a dine and dash, nor have I seen anyone alleging they did. In addition, if it had been an official response it would have been done by the manager or higher up. The employee committed several actions which would be grounds to fire her from any regular restaurant or service position such as cashier or bus boy.
And the blanked out credit card info is because they aren't stupid, it doesn't mean the implied contract is not understood.
Did we read different articles, then?
The policy is that a party of 20 has an automatic service charge of 18% added to the menu prices. The picture of the receipt shows that the pastor refused to pay for the 18% service charge.
If my meal is $20 and I only pay $15, I have dined-and-dashed.
Ratbarf wrote:The Pastor has not perpitrated a dine and dash, nor have I seen anyone alleging they did. In addition, if it had been an official response it would have been done by the manager or higher up. The employee committed several actions which would be grounds to fire her from any regular restaurant or service position such as cashier or bus boy.
And the blanked out credit card info is because they aren't stupid, it doesn't mean the implied contract is not understood.
Did we read different articles, then?
The policy is that a party of 20 has an automatic service charge of 18% added to the menu prices. The picture of the receipt shows that the pastor refused to pay for the 18% service charge.
If my meal is $20 and I only pay $15, I have dined-and-dashed.
Yeah... that was a gakky thing (pastor) to do...
People forget that you're not only paying for the food, but the service as well.
Food service people work very hard and get paid less than minimum wage. They're expected to make up for that in tips. As far as I know, social etiquette requests that you leave a 15-20% percent tip. At least the pastor didn't leave those god-awful bible tracts.
The pastor in question was allegedly very sorry about this once it came out, as I read on a site I'm not going to google because you can look it up if you want (Consumerist probably).
The pastor wasnt't sorry about their rude behavior, and she wasn't sorry about marching in and demanding the whole staff be fired, but she WAS sorry when her name was discovered and she was outed as the shatwizard she is.
That being said, no one's really covered in glory on this. I agree the waitress should have been fired for posting the receipt with the name visible and legible on it. Out yourself in corporate's shoes - if you don't fire her, you tacitly endorse her behavior. Maybe they could have just disciplined her instead, I dunno. But she definitely is not innocent of the consequences she suffered. if you don't like getting crappy tips or no tips, well, that's the service industry.
That doesn't make the pastor any less of a totally awful human being.
PS: the "church" she runs is out of a storefront and owned by her, so she's tithing to herself.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Blacksails wrote: Both parties did something stupid, now people are going to get angry and polarized about something excessively trivial.
Oh look how above the fray you are. Thank you for diving into the poo-pile just to let us know how little you care about this. Always valuable to hear that.
I disagree about the waitress needing to be fired. The story states that there was no misconduct on her part per Applebees' own regs. I'd have simply given her a day or two off to think about it, but not fire her.
Man, you guys are vindictive.
Oh, and waiters/waitresses, and the like are pretty much treated like dirt by a lot of customers. Depending on the state, a group that stiffs on the tip can actually wind up costing the server money. Talk to your bartender and they'll fill you in.
I doubt Applebees own regulationss cover every single theoretical situation. Is there, for example, a page outlining that a member of the waitstaff may not casually put their ass into a customer's face and pass wind? Lacking that, are they then free to do so without consequence? I'm confident there is some vague, catchall phrase that allows them to fire her.
The only real issue if she worked in an at-will state. Statistically, she probably did, so they can fire her for any reason or no reason that's not discriminatory.
I'm not vindictive (ok, actually, I totally am, but not in this case) but I'm sympathetic to the fact that Applebees Corporation doesn't want to be known as "that place where if you tip poorly, the waitstaff will post your name so you can be publicly ridiculed".
Come to think of it, though, maybe they should? Because that's actually a great policy.
I used to work the graveyard shift at the Clarion hotel in New Orleans and I can tell you as well as anyone else that has worked these jobs that it can be a bitch.
The pastor was a total ass going in and demanding everyone's job. I 've seen her type time and again when I worked in the service industry and they tend to treat workers like they are personal slaves.
What we used to do with her type was to politly take their direction, then leave them standing or waiting in their room while we tended to other, more civil guests.
Word travels fast about this type of person between shifts and their stay at a hotel can be less pleasant than it otherwise could have been.
On the other hand, restaurant and hotel staff will often jump through hoops to make you happy if you treat them like people, even if your tips aren't that much.
Tipping is the funniest thing. It is by no means mandatory that anyone ever tip at all, but more often than not, jobs that customarily should be tipped heavily depend on that tip. At an average wage of $2.16 per hour, servers really rely on the tips. For the party in question, a group that large is going to make a disproportionately large hassle for the staff. Instead of 5 tables of 4, its one table of 20, all ordering at the same time, probably requiring reorganization of the floor, and maybe even utilizing another server. Large parties like this usually take up a lot of resources.
As a former server and bartender, a printed policy of a mandatory tip was welcomed by me. There will always be one person who I couldn't get to in time, a refill I missed, whatever. The simple fact that I didn't blow the entire thing was cause enough to charge that tip. Also consider that many times parties just show up and demand a 20-top table without any warning, and often it is after some staff have been cut for the night, causing more stress.
The real kicker to this particular scenario is that someone had the gall to claim because he tithes 10% of his total income, he is not required to hand over more than 10% of his bill to the server. One has nothing to do with the other. If nothing else, he was just proving that he is a cheap prick who should never have gone out to eat somewhere nicer than McDs if money was so tight.
xole wrote:Here's a new story. Pastor writes an unpleasant note on her receipt at an Applebee's(and doesn't do tip in credit, claims to have tipped in cash). Receipt gets posted on Reddit. Server now fired.
Reading is essential, and if you pay for anything you'd already know that her reciept included the tip already as a part of the bill. That's how automatic gratuity works.
From your story (and you know reality)
her credit card was also charged the tip amount.
I'm not fond of automatic gratuity in general, not the concept the name, restaurants should call it something else because it's not gratuity it's a service charge for a group being a particular pain in the ass. 18% as an automatic gratuity is excessive. You want a near 20% tip take 8 in a service charge and earn the other 10. In my experience a group like that will all lay down individual tips well in excess of 20% of the total. If the "pastor" wanted to be a real bitch she should have told them to pick up thier money, quietly paid the bill, and let the server keep her 6.30 before taxes instead of her tax free unreported cash tips.
My wife and I typically leave well in excess of 20% on our food and drink bills. But when the automatic tip is above 10% I happily sign a 0 on the "additional" tip line unless we received exceptional service. I say this not from a large group but just my wife and I, in which case I find automatic gratuity asinine in the extreme.
Meh, I work in the food industry, people are jerks when it comes to their foods. The things I have had said to me fill me with rage(I got yelled at for not making the food like the women liked it, when she never specified how she liked it)
But really this is how i see religion now, They are all Holier then thou fat cats who care for nothing but their own souls.
xole wrote:Here's a new story. Pastor writes an unpleasant note on her receipt at an Applebee's(and doesn't do tip in credit, claims to have tipped in cash). Receipt gets posted on Reddit. Server now fired.
Reading is essential, and if you pay for anything you'd already know that her reciept included the tip already as a part of the bill. That's how automatic gratuity works.
From your story (and you know reality)
her credit card was also charged the tip amount.
I'm not fond of automatic gratuity in general, not the concept the name, restaurants should call it something else because it's not gratuity it's a service charge for a group being a particular pain in the ass. 18% as an automatic gratuity is excessive. You want a near 20% tip take 8 in a service charge and earn the other 10. In my experience a group like that will all lay down individual tips well in excess of 20% of the total. If the "pastor" wanted to be a real bitch she should have told them to pick up thier money, quietly paid the bill, and let the server keep her 6.30 before taxes instead of her tax free unreported cash tips.
My wife and I typically leave well in excess of 20% on our food and drink bills. But when the automatic tip is above 10% I happily sign a 0 on the "additional" tip line unless we received exceptional service. I say this not from a large group but just my wife and I, in which case I find automatic gratuity asinine in the extreme.
I would like you to please look at the photo in question, and then tell me if there is anything you would like to retract from your statement. Please note that the Pastor even scratched out the service charge and only authorized her card to pay the subtotal.
Auston obviously never served in food service a single day in his life. No resraurant I have ever seen charges a gratuity on a 2-top. When a party exceeds 8 or so, it becomes a huge pain in the a$$, that is why most places notify you of this in the menu. As servers have not seen a raise in average pay for over 20 years, that tip is necessary. Should it be given for poor service? No. But I have seen far too many servers treated like dog&#*@ simply because they are serving food and "not doing something better" as one patron I overheard said. Servers who do a good job and are tipped poorly eventually take it as a comment that they are working too hard for too little kickback. Servers make their money direcrly from your pocket, remember that.
Long story short: if you don't have the money to tip, go somewhere rhat tipping is not customary.
azazel the cat wrote: Saw this earlier. Pastor's actions are pretty typical of how I perceive most church leaders to be. Although I do find it quite funny that as the leader of her own church, she only gives 10% to the Lord. That seems a little low. I'm pretty sure most sports team captains will uniformly tell you they give 110% to their teams.
I suspect that the Internet will deliver blissful and cathartic retribution within the month.
xole wrote:Here's a new story. Pastor writes an unpleasant note on her receipt at an Applebee's(and doesn't do tip in credit, claims to have tipped in cash). Receipt gets posted on Reddit. Server now fired.
Reading is essential, and if you pay for anything you'd already know that her reciept included the tip already as a part of the bill. That's how automatic gratuity works.
From your story (and you know reality)
her credit card was also charged the tip amount.
I'm not fond of automatic gratuity in general, not the concept the name, restaurants should call it something else because it's not gratuity it's a service charge for a group being a particular pain in the ass. 18% as an automatic gratuity is excessive. You want a near 20% tip take 8 in a service charge and earn the other 10. In my experience a group like that will all lay down individual tips well in excess of 20% of the total. If the "pastor" wanted to be a real bitch she should have told them to pick up thier money, quietly paid the bill, and let the server keep her 6.30 before taxes instead of her tax free unreported cash tips.
My wife and I typically leave well in excess of 20% on our food and drink bills. But when the automatic tip is above 10% I happily sign a 0 on the "additional" tip line unless we received exceptional service. I say this not from a large group but just my wife and I, in which case I find automatic gratuity asinine in the extreme.
Pastor Bell claims she left $6.29 on the table and her credit card was also charged the tip amount.
Reading IS essential.
and if you pay for anything you'd already know that her reciept included the tip already as a part of the bill.
Really? That's funny. I went to Panda Express the other day and didn't know the tip was a part of the bill. I went to the gas station and got a hair cut as well, and didn't know the tip was part of the bill. Hell, I've been to restraunt's and paid with a party size of two and didn't see the tip as part of the bill.
That's how automatic gratuity works.
Is it now? You're legally obligated to pay the gratuity. Well, my friend Mr. Google says he isn'tsure about that, there's been cases gone both ways, and people have claimed to got out of it. These cases did end up going to court, but Perhaps you'd like to back yourself up with some facts?
EDIT:This edit is to everyone. The pastor's a she, for future reference. They...even have a picture of her. In the article.
I think that's about standard for large parties that I have seen in my wholly anecdotal evidence. My mother was a waitress for several years, and I did it briefly, and that's what I've seen on menus.
Ratbarf wrote: The 18% tip would already be included. It's part of the 34 dollars, she still paid it.
You know, there's an image of the receipt in question like, halfway up the page showing this is not accurate.
I know, usually when there is a printed out tip it's already included in the bill. Or at least it has been the everytime I have come across it in a restaurant bill.
"He that oppresseth the poor reproacheth his Maker: but he that honoureth him hath mercy on the poor."
Proverbs 14:31
(Thanks to Boing Boing)
I don't know what the receipt shows. If the pastor went back in anger to have the waitress sacked, I think that is vindictive and unChristian. He should have turned the other cheek.
Should the waitress have been sacked? Once the pastor made a public fuss about it, that probably became inevitable. A more astute restaurant management could perhaps have resolved the situation to everyone's advantage.
xole wrote:Here's a new story. Pastor writes an unpleasant note on her receipt at an Applebee's(and doesn't do tip in credit, claims to have tipped in cash). Receipt gets posted on Reddit. Server now fired.
Reading is essential, and if you pay for anything you'd already know that her reciept included the tip already as a part of the bill. That's how automatic gratuity works.
From your story (and you know reality)
her credit card was also charged the tip amount.
I'm not fond of automatic gratuity in general, not the concept the name, restaurants should call it something else because it's not gratuity it's a service charge for a group being a particular pain in the ass. 18% as an automatic gratuity is excessive. You want a near 20% tip take 8 in a service charge and earn the other 10. In my experience a group like that will all lay down individual tips well in excess of 20% of the total. If the "pastor" wanted to be a real bitch she should have told them to pick up thier money, quietly paid the bill, and let the server keep her 6.30 before taxes instead of her tax free unreported cash tips.
My wife and I typically leave well in excess of 20% on our food and drink bills. But when the automatic tip is above 10% I happily sign a 0 on the "additional" tip line unless we received exceptional service. I say this not from a large group but just my wife and I, in which case I find automatic gratuity asinine in the extreme.
I would like you to please look at the photo in question, and then tell me if there is anything you would like to retract from your statement. Please note that the Pastor even scratched out the service charge and only authorized her card to pay the subtotal.
I'm not retracting a god damned thing; her total due was 41.22 and Regardless of what she wrote when she signed it she authorized payment of no less than the total due. Here's a side by side from a different restaurant that should adequate display what I'm talking about.
The automatic gratuity is seperated from the bill as a courtesy on the cardholders statement.
SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Auston obviously never served in food service a single day in his life. No resraurant I have ever seen charges a gratuity on a 2-top. When a party exceeds 8 or so, it becomes a huge pain in the a$$, that is why most places notify you of this in the menu. As servers have not seen a raise in average pay for over 20 years, that tip is necessary. Should it be given for poor service? No. But I have seen far too many servers treated like dog&#*@ simply because they are serving food and "not doing something better" as one patron I overheard said. Servers who do a good job and are tipped poorly eventually take it as a comment that they are working too hard for too little kickback. Servers make their money direcrly from your pocket, remember that.
Long story short: if you don't have the money to tip, go somewhere rhat tipping is not customary.
Well
1. You know feth all about me
2. I'm sorry you think my dining experiences are relagated to the On the Border in Modesto and gee I hate to be the one to tell you this: automatic Gratuity on all checks or "a two top" in your servants parlance is in fact widespread.
Kilkrazy wrote: "He that oppresseth the poor reproacheth his Maker: but he that honoureth him hath mercy on the poor."
Proverbs 14:31
(Thanks to Boing Boing)
I don't know what the receipt shows. If the pastor went back in anger to have the waitress sacked, I think that is vindictive and unChristian. He should have turned the other cheek.
Should the waitress have been sacked? Once the pastor made a public fuss about it, that probably became inevitable. A more astute restaurant management could perhaps have resolved the situation to everyone's advantage.
Book of NELS, Chapter 4 verse 20
" And lo, the Lord Christ, upon reading the mans writings, said unto the man " Read the fething article, dude."
Pastor is a female, its clear if you read the posted article or if you merely glanced at, it has a picture. Public fuss was on the part of the waiter who posted it online. Restaurant fired the server because she posted a customers private info online. All of this is in the article.
Ouze wrote: I think that's about standard for large parties that I have seen in my wholly anecdotal evidence. My mother was a waitress for several years, and I did it briefly, and that's what I've seen on menus.
She wore flats, that's how you knew Sam Jackson staged the robbery as a test.
But yeah, that's fairly standard. I've actually seen much higher in major cities.
I'm not retracting a god damned thing; her total due was 41.22 and Regardless of what she wrote when she signed it she authorized payment of no less than the total due. Here's a side by side from a different restaurant that should adequate display what I'm talking about.
The beautiful thing here is...you found proof of my argument(one I didn't want to have) for me. Thank you.
See that thing in your receipt called a "service charge"? You are legally obligated to pay that by law. See that thing in the top receipt called a "Tip"? You are not legally obligated to pay that by law.
you have a bunch of white men ruling by a book they "found" and interpreted how many times, and people take the English version of it a FACT. This is like taking a class of second graders and sitting them in a circle, then telling one kid a secret, and having them pass it around the circle. I'd bet all the money on Earth that the story is not only not the same at the end, it is so far from the facts it is scary.
Simple fact
treat others as you want to be treated
we are all one, we all suffer if one of us does
smile
and like hell a "God" is petty and demand $$$
trust me folks, a being as powerful as a "god" is not bothered by human emotions, it is amusing that humans try and pin them on their "gods"
Well I wouldn't auto-attach a tip, nor would I intentionally post someone's receipt to the internet. Honestly why don't Americans simply pay servers minimum wage like we do? Here you only tip for better than expected service or if you were using an alcohol tab.
The Pastor did something you aren't supposed to do in her line of work. She still has her job.
The waitress did something you aren't supposed to do in her line of work. She got fired.
The moral of the story here is to get yourself a job with some kind of status to it, because then when your unprofessional behaviour becomes an internet phenomenon nothing happens to you.
you have a bunch of white men ruling by a book they "found" and interpreted how many times, and people take the English version of it a FACT. This is like taking a class of second graders and sitting them in a circle, then telling one kid a secret, and having them pass it around the circle. I'd bet all the money on Earth that the story is not only not the same at the end, it is so far from the facts it is scary.
Simple fact
treat others as you want to be treated
we are all one, we all suffer if one of us does
Thats Luke 6:31 and 1 Corinthians 12:26. Luke being written by most historical accounts in AD 50's to 70's. Corinthians also written around the same timeframe. Hasn't changed so much, has it?
Kilkrazy wrote: "He that oppresseth the poor reproacheth his Maker: but he that honoureth him hath mercy on the poor."
Proverbs 14:31
(Thanks to Boing Boing)
I don't know what the receipt shows. If the pastor went back in anger to have the waitress sacked, I think that is vindictive and unChristian. He should have turned the other cheek.
Should the waitress have been sacked? Once the pastor made a public fuss about it, that probably became inevitable. A more astute restaurant management could perhaps have resolved the situation to everyone's advantage.
Book of NELS, Chapter 4 verse 20
" And lo, the Lord Christ, upon reading the mans writings, said unto the man " Read the fething article, dude."
Pastor is a female, its clear if you read the posted article or if you merely glanced at, it has a picture. .
In what way does that invalidate my point? Are women priests supposed to behave in non-Christian ways?
I'm not retracting a god damned thing; her total due was 41.22 and Regardless of what she wrote when she signed it she authorized payment of no less than the total due. Here's a side by side from a different restaurant that should adequate display what I'm talking about.
The beautiful thing here is...you found proof of my argument(one I didn't want to have) for me. Thank you.
See that thing in your receipt called a "service charge"? You are legally obligated to pay that by law. See that thing in the top receipt called a "Tip"? You are not legally obligated to pay that by law.
You posted a story about AUTOMATIC gratuity, then argue its not automatic...twice.
I'm not sure if you're slowed or trolling, either way I automatically wash my hands of you.
This makes me glad to not have any requirement to tip when I go for a meal.
I tip anyway, but I like having the choice. For example, when I went for a chinese meal with my brother and wife, and the (rather elderly) waitress set the place next to my brother (which was empty...lol) and completely ignored him.
I tipped then, because I spent most of the meal crying with laughter at various displays of ineptitude. Who puts whole garlic cloves in egg fried rice?
If I'd been told I HAD to tip at that point, there would have been fur and feathers flying.
Palindrome wrote: “We make $3.50 an hour. Most of my paychecks are less than pocket change because I have to pay taxes on the tips I make,”
How the hell is someone supposed to live on such atrociously bad wages? I'm sure that she gets more than that in tips but it can't be much more.
As you're from the UK, this is a fair question.
In the US, we have a minimum wage, which is $7.25USd/hr (4.57GBP). However, there is an exception in the minimum wage law for waitstaff. The way it works is they earn $2.13 as a base minimum wage, and the rest they make up via tips. If they do not make enough in tips to exceed the minimum wage, the restaurant is responsible for covering the difference between the wage + tips until it's brought up to the minimum wage.
That's how it goes, in theory. However in practice this is pretty loosely enforced, and the transient nature of the industry means abuses are generally not well investigated. The waitstaff and the busboys, etc all pool tips and divvy them up in most establishments as well, so that's another way to get burned.
It can be. It can also be ridiculously lucrative. My girlfriend works at a very high-end restaurant in the DC area. She tends bar. She's quite attractive. She pulled down around 80K last year, working four days a week.
azazel the cat wrote: Saw this earlier. Pastor's actions are pretty typical of how I perceive most church leaders to be. Although I do find it quite funny that as the leader of her own church, she only gives 10% to the Lord. That seems a little low. I'm pretty sure most sports team captains will uniformly tell you they give 110% to their teams.
I suspect that the Internet will deliver blissful and cathartic retribution within the month.
EDIT: @Ratbard > do you really feel like someone's reprehensible and dickish moves ought to be carried out without fear of being shamed publicly for their wanton and knowingly-bad actions?
Yeah, I read about this elsewhere. It infuriates me. I've left cash tips before and always do if I actually have cash on me, because (at least in the old days) it used to be easier to dodge taxes on your tips in cash, while the card based ones got counted programatically, so in theory it makes the tip slightly larger (at least, upfront. I'm sure most wait staff probably get most of their income taxes back)
Personally, the snide overtone of the note left on the bill makes me think that she likely didn't leave a cash tip at all.
The sad thing here is that the esteemed pastor winds up the "victim" while the poor girl that actually works for a living just winds up in the unemployment line. Squeeky wheel gets the kick, and all that, I suppose.
More obnoxiously, what she's (pastor) saying is that she's a freakin pastor: 10% -> "God's" house -> her house. I wish I could invest in myself and feel self-righteous about it. I gotta get me some of this religion.
It can be. It can also be ridiculously lucrative. My girlfriend works at a very high-end restaurant in the DC area. She tends bar. She's quite attractive. She pulled down around 80K last year, working four days a week.
What's cost of living like there though? While 80k would be considerably comfortable single salary range in STL, if DC is anything like NYC, I understand 80k to not be that much, especially if you live in the city and such.
Ratbarf wrote:The Pastor has not perpitrated a dine and dash, nor have I seen anyone alleging they did. In addition, if it had been an official response it would have been done by the manager or higher up. The employee committed several actions which would be grounds to fire her from any regular restaurant or service position such as cashier or bus boy.
And the blanked out credit card info is because they aren't stupid, it doesn't mean the implied contract is not understood.
Did we read different articles, then?
The policy is that a party of 20 has an automatic service charge of 18% added to the menu prices. The picture of the receipt shows that the pastor refused to pay for the 18% service charge.
If my meal is $20 and I only pay $15, I have dined-and-dashed.
Tips are not mandatory. They are tips, not a bill for service.
Frankly aI agree with the no mandatory tip bs, and this is from someone who tips very well. Of course Applebees is like the armpit of the restaurant universe anyway...
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Terentius wrote: Food service people work very hard and get paid less than minimum wage. They're expected to make up for that in tips. As far as I know, social etiquette requests that you leave a 15-20% percent tip. At least the pastor didn't leave those god-awful bible tracts.
You only leave a good tip if the service is good though. Having said that, sounds like the customer is a jerkwad.
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Ouze wrote: The pastor in question was allegedly very sorry about this once it came out, as I read on a site I'm not going to google because you can look it up if you want (Consumerist probably).
The pastor wasnt't sorry about their rude behavior, and she wasn't sorry about marching in and demanding the whole staff be fired, but she WAS sorry when her name was discovered and she was outed as the shatwizard she is.
That being said, no one's really covered in glory on this. I agree the waitress should have been fired for posting the receipt with the name visible and legible on it. Out yourself in corporate's shoes - if you don't fire her, you tacitly endorse her behavior. Maybe they could have just disciplined her instead, I dunno. But she definitely is not innocent of the consequences she suffered. if you don't like getting crappy tips or no tips, well, that's the service industry.
That doesn't make the pastor any less of a totally awful human being.
I hate to say it but I agree with all points.
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Breotan wrote: I disagree about the waitress needing to be fired. The story states that there was no misconduct on her part per Applebees' own regs. I'd have simply given her a day or two off to think about it, but not fire her.
Man, you guys are vindictive.
Oh, and waiters/waitresses, and the like are pretty much treated like dirt by a lot of customers. Depending on the state, a group that stiffs on the tip can actually wind up costing the server money. Talk to your bartender and they'll fill you in.
The Wfie and I, having worked in the dregs of food service and the retail industry, firmly believe that, instead of a draft, all children in the US should be forced to work in retail or food service for at least a year. She's also convinced (and I agree), that how you treat waitstaff is a window into your personality.
Well, I didn't know "service charge" was actually a tip. Thats good to know.
you have a bunch of white men ruling by a book they "found" and interpreted how many times, and people take the English version of it a FACT. This is like taking a class of second graders and sitting them in a circle, then telling one kid a secret, and having them pass it around the circle. I'd bet all the money on Earth that the story is not only not the same at the end, it is so far from the facts it is scary.
Simple fact
treat others as you want to be treated
we are all one, we all suffer if one of us does
smile
and like hell a "God" is petty and demand $$$
trust me folks, a being as powerful as a "god" is not bothered by human emotions, it is amusing that humans try and pin them on their "gods"
And here we were having a food time and you went all jerkwad on us.
Kilkrazy wrote: "He that oppresseth the poor reproacheth his Maker: but he that honoureth him hath mercy on the poor."
Proverbs 14:31
(Thanks to Boing Boing)
I don't know what the receipt shows. If the pastor went back in anger to have the waitress sacked, I think that is vindictive and unChristian. He should have turned the other cheek.
Should the waitress have been sacked? Once the pastor made a public fuss about it, that probably became inevitable. A more astute restaurant management could perhaps have resolved the situation to everyone's advantage.
Book of NELS, Chapter 4 verse 20
" And lo, the Lord Christ, upon reading the mans writings, said unto the man " Read the fething article, dude."
Pastor is a female, its clear if you read the posted article or if you merely glanced at, it has a picture. Public fuss was on the part of the waiter who posted it online. Restaurant fired the server because she posted a customers private info online. All of this is in the article.
The pastor also demanded a wholesale firing of other people working there as well. Bottom line is that the pastor is a self centered bitch.
When I worked in a nightclub, we had 'RandyGranny' night.
Always seemed to be a thursday when I was glass collecting downstairs in the 60-70's area of the club. They just used to try to grab various parts of you - reverse the situation so it's guy's grabbing at people and the doorman throw them out.
Being attacked by grannies? the doormen laugh.
I got paid £3.01p an hour for that privilege. (pre minimum wage)
No tips either. And I used to get anything up to £40 for three nghts work, which I STILL spent on 40k...lol.
You can't post personal details online without someone's permission, whether they've done right or wrong. The waitress left the company with little choice as people have said.
It's a shame theres no 'Gakhole tax' for the pastor either.
Applebee's Sucks Ass. Seriously. I've never had a good meal there. I'd rather eat at McDonald's than go there.
Everyone involved is guilty. The Pastor for paying money to eat at a gakky restaurant. The waitress for bringing gakky food to people. The posters in this thread that failed to see these facts!
It can be. It can also be ridiculously lucrative. My girlfriend works at a very high-end restaurant in the DC area. She tends bar. She's quite attractive. She pulled down around 80K last year, working four days a week.
What's cost of living like there though? While 80k would be considerably comfortable single salary range in STL, if DC is anything like NYC, I understand 80k to not be that much, especially if you live in the city and such.
Not only that I feel like she's in pretty close to as ideal a situation when it comes to wait staff as possible , at least for the purposes of pulling dough. The vast majority of wait staff are just pulling enough money to make rent.
You know all the people I hear on the radio make a lot of money. Maybe I should start making music for a living!
kronk wrote: I didn't read the article so let me knee jerk.
Applebee's Sucks Ass. Seriously. I've never had a good meal there. I'd rather eat at McDonald's than go there.
Everyone involved is guilty. The Pastor for paying money to eat at a gakky restaurant. The waitress for bringing gakky food to people. The posters in this thread that failed to see these facts!
For SHAME!!!
Agreed. I've had the misfortune of eating twice at Applebees. I'd rather not eat then eat at Applebees.
When we first reported this story, we cautioned that the photo might be part of a hoax designed to stir up some sort of anti-Christian, anti-religious sentiment (as people have pulled similar cons in the past). But it turns out the story is authentic. .
What? Other anti-christian hoaxes? I'm sure there is a tasteless child-abuse joke in there somewhere.
sebster wrote: The Pastor did something you aren't supposed to do in her line of work. She still has her job.
The waitress did something you aren't supposed to do in her line of work. She got fired.
The moral of the story here is to get yourself a job with some kind of status to it, because then when your unprofessional behaviour becomes an internet phenomenon nothing happens to you.
A Christian pastor goes out of her way to make a mean, low down remark to someone working a lower class job.
Unless she's some kind of "Christian" that I've never heard of, that's a clearly sinful thing to do.
In the kind of Christianity with which I'm familiar, adherents aren't expected to be perfect. Indeed, there is a fundamental assumption that we'll feth up like this pastor did. Along with that assumption comes some helpful advice on what to do about it: love your neighbor, don't let the sun set on your anger, forgive your brother seven times seventy times, blessed are the peacemakers, turn the other cheek, etc, etc, etc.
But I never heard it said, have them fired. I never heard, go and exact revenge. As I recall, it is the Lord alone who can say, vengeance is mine.
If this pastor felt ashamed upon seeing her receipt posted up I suppose she ought to consider why. And I hope, every time she sees this story make its rounds, that she feels ashamed all over again. Unlike demanding that someone or everyone be fired, feeling shame is not a punishment. Shame has a reason: it's a sign you've gone off the rails and an opportunity to get back on track.
I hope the next story written on this is, "pastor contacts insulted waitress, apologizes, helps find her new job."
Manchu wrote: A Christian pastor goes out of her way to make a mean, low down remark to someone working a lower class job.
Unless she's some kind of "Christian" that I've never heard of, that's a clearly sinful thing to do.
In the kind of Christianity with which I'm familiar, adherents aren't expected to be perfect. Indeed, there is a fundamental assumption that we'll feth up like this pastor did. Along with that assumption comes some helpful advice on what to do about it: love your neighbor, don't let the sun set on your anger, forgive your brother seven times seventy times, blessed are the peacemakers, turn the other cheek, etc, etc, etc.
But I never heard it said, have them fired. I never heard, go and exact revenge. As I recall, it is the Lord alone who can say, vengeance is mine.
If this pastor felt ashamed upon seeing her receipt posted up I suppose she ought to consider why. And I hope, every time she sees this story make its rounds, that she feels ashamed all over again. Unlike demanding that someone or everyone be fired, feeling shame is not a punishment. Shame has a reason: it's a sign you've gone off the rails and an opportunity to get back on track.
I hope the next story written on this is, "pastor contacts insulted waitress, apologizes, helps find her new job."
WE've disagreed in the past, because you didn't understand that I was right, but in this instance we are completely of the same mind.
Hey I like it here, can I borrow your mind in the future?
daedalus wrote: What's cost of living like there though? While 80k would be considerably comfortable single salary range in STL, if DC is anything like NYC, I understand 80k to not be that much, especially if you live in the city and such.
DC's nowhere near as bad as New York. 80K's pretty decent around here.
Manchu wrote:A Christian pastor goes out of her way to make a mean, low down remark to someone working a lower class job.
Unless she's some kind of "Christian" that I've never heard of, that's a clearly sinful thing to do.
In the kind of Christianity with which I'm familiar, adherents aren't expected to be perfect. Indeed, there is a fundamental assumption that we'll feth up like this pastor did. Along with that assumption comes some helpful advice on what to do about it: love your neighbor, don't let the sun set on your anger, forgive your brother seven times seventy times, blessed are the peacemakers, turn the other cheek, etc, etc, etc.
But I never heard it said, have them fired. I never heard, go and exact revenge. As I recall, it is the Lord alone who can say, vengeance is mine.
If this pastor felt ashamed upon seeing her receipt posted up I suppose she ought to consider why. And I hope, every time she sees this story make its rounds, that she feels ashamed all over again. Unlike demanding that someone or everyone be fired, feeling shame is not a punishment. Shame has a reason: it's a sign you've gone off the rails and an opportunity to get back on track.
I hope the next story written on this is, "pastor contacts insulted waitress, apologizes, helps find her new job."
This is exactly the kind of Christianity with which I'm familiar.
While I won't make an assinine claim that all self-identified Christians are represented by this, I will say that in my experience, Christian churches are as full of these kinds of holier-than-thou-despite-being-a-d-bag types as Seattle is full of people in skinny jeans.
@Frazzled: if I am aware of an automatic 18% gratuity being charged to my bill due to the size of my party, and I still choose to eat at the restaurant, then I have agreed to pay for that gratuity in the same sense that I have agreed to pay the menu price tag for each item. It is not optional. That receipt clearly shows the total, followed by the 18% gratuity charge (which was scratched out by the Pastor), followed by the Pastor's authorization to pay only the total without the gratuity. The Pastor clearly reneged on the tacit contract to pay the 18% that was to be charged for her party of 18+
It is optional if its a tip. If its a "service charge" thats more debatable.
Frankly, I've not had an issue in this area. If I am with a group of people and am paying with my own money (OMG!!!) then its a place I like and they'll already be getting at least that. If I were receiving poor service it would have never made it to the bill, as I would have informed the manager (ok everyone in the restaurant) long before that, and left already. But again, if its my dime, then I'd already be at a place with appropriate service to begin with.
Can we get off the Christian thing, else I'll go anecdotal too about the pricks I've known who've been atheists and how they treated people. Pricks come in every flavor. And I agree this lady sounds like a real peach. . .
Frazzled wrote:Can we get off the Christian thing, else I'll go anecdotal too about the pricks I've known who've been atheists and how they treated people. Pricks come in every flavor.
And I agree this lady sounds like a real peach. . .
Absolutely. I'd much rather judge people to be d-bags on a jackass-by-jackass basis.
Frazzled wrote:Can we get off the Christian thing, else I'll go anecdotal too about the pricks I've known who've been atheists and how they treated people. Pricks come in every flavor.
And I agree this lady sounds like a real peach. . .
Absolutely. I'd much rather judge people to be d-bags on a jackass-by-jackass basis.
Automatic service charges are already put into the bill, regardless of whether she scratched it out or not doesn't change the fact that the service charge was still part of her total, and her total was paid. She did not dine and dash. Yes, she acted in a regrettable manner, but the waitress was fired for a normal and expected reason. She shouldn't have posted the receipt.
From what I know waiters and waitresses in the US need tips to make up their salary so they can afford to live...
Not tipping seems pretty harsh in that regard.
I hate the idea that I'm morally required to leave a tip regardless of how things go. If a waitress is crap, then she gets a crap tip. If she pisses me off, she get's no tip.
The pastor may or may not have been a bad customer. Oh well, you deal with like 30 or so plus a day. Just because you have one bad customer experience doesn't mean you have to go crying to reddit about it. Perhaps a lesson will be learned from this, but I doubt it.
Necroshea wrote: I hate the idea that I'm morally required to leave a tip regardless of how things go. If a waitress is crap, then she gets a crap tip. If she pisses me off, she get's no tip.
I'd agree with you, if that didn't mean that the person had to become homeless for lack of revenue. Seriously, 3.01 minimum wage is monstrous.
If a server pisses me off I leave a commiserate tip in pennies. I mean if I didn't tip these people would go homeless. I keep a bag of pennies in my car for special occasions. $2.50. I actually haven't left it for well over a year.
Kilkrazy wrote: Who is morally required to pay a living wage to restaurant workers?
It's a company's responsability to manage the quality of the service they offer. Just because they are working in a food service industry doesn't magically mean that it's okay for that crappy server to survive on cat food while the crappy telecom customer service rep get a fat 16$ an hour. If the server offer bad service, the employer should tell him to put on a smile, or start searching for another job, all the while paying him what is reasonable.
Also, I like living in a land where automatic gratuity seems to be non-existent.
Necroshea wrote:I hate the idea that I'm morally required to leave a tip regardless of how things go. If a waitress is crap, then she gets a crap tip. If she pisses me off, she get's no tip.
The pastor may or may not have been a bad customer. Oh well, you deal with like 30 or so plus a day. Just because you have one bad customer experience doesn't mean you have to go crying to reddit about it. Perhaps a lesson will be learned from this, but I doubt it.
Uh, that Pastor was the payer for a party of 20+, which means that was basically the waitress' entire evening.
AustonT wrote: If a server pisses me off I leave a commiserate tip in pennies. I mean if I didn't tip these people would go homeless. I keep a bag of pennies in my car for special occasions. $2.50. I actually haven't left it for well over a year.
There are two occasions in my life when I have not left a tip.
I tend to tip 20%, as norm. 15% if they were not up to par, 10% if they were shoddy. It takes a real piece of work to get no tip from me.
kronk wrote: I can't remember the last time I didn't leave a tip (at a non-fast food place, of course).
I agree that waiters/waitresses at most restaurants don't get paid gak. Get your degree or plumbers/electrician certificates, kiddos!
I can, from about two years ago. The waitress pissed me off that much. There's only been two times I've ever not left a tip. One of those places I've not been back to, and the other place I've turned and left when she was the only person serving. I normally tip 20%, sometimes more, and you have to feth up bad to get less than that.
Necroshea wrote: I hate the idea that I'm morally required to leave a tip regardless of how things go. If a waitress is crap, then she gets a crap tip. If she pisses me off, she get's no tip.
I'd agree with you, if that didn't mean that the person had to become homeless for lack of revenue. Seriously, 3.01 minimum wage is monstrous.
Good servers make a lot more than minimum wage, and if for some reason they average less than minimum wage during including their tips during a pay period, the employer has to make up the difference. The reason the minimum wage for tipped employees is lower is because they end up making a lot more overall. If they're not good enough to make decent tips, they won't hold the job for long anyway.
kronk wrote: I can't remember the last time I didn't leave a tip (at a non-fast food place, of course).
I agree that waiters/waitresses at most restaurants don't get paid gak. Get your degree or plumbers/electrician certificates, kiddos!
I can, from about two years ago. The waitress pissed me off that much. There's only been two times I've ever not left a tip. One of those places I've not been back to, and the other place I've turned and left when she was the only person serving. I normally tip 20%, sometimes more, and you have to feth up bad to get less than that.
Usually I round up to the nearest dollar, and then put on a couple of dollars (generally ranging between 15 and 20%), I've given a bad tip under 2 occasions, both were at the same bar. The first was when I was basically ignored by our server and ended up serving myself by going to the bar, and putting in my drink order, etc... I did write a note on my check explaining it, the second time was roughly the same situation, but she charged me extra drinks, she would have earned herself about a drink's price in tip, but I had to argue with her showing her time stamped photos of the drinks I was having (I had been overcharged there before, but couldn't prove it), she fixed the check, and I gave her a dollar tip when she brought my corrected check with a crap attitude. There has only been 1 time in my life when I didn't give a tip, but it was because I had a coupon for a free meal for my bday, and since I didn't order a carbonated beverage (cut it out of my diet, so I only drink water now), and since I didn't have a price attached to my meal, I couldn't give a tip (I rarely carry cash), so one of my buddies covered my tip and then I paid him back.
While in Vegas, we ate at one of the restaurants in the Tropicana, and they charged a party of three 20% gratuity on a bill, and the service was crap, my dad almost gave them a tip on top of that, and I had to stop him.
Alfndrate wrote: but it was because I had a coupon for a free meal for my bday, and since I didn't order a carbonated beverage (cut it out of my diet, so I only drink water now), and since I didn't have a price attached to my meal, I couldn't give a tip (I rarely carry cash), so one of my buddies covered my tip and then I paid him back.
Ah, yeah. Forgot about those. The pub (as pubish as American places get, I suppose) my roommate I frequent has loyalty cards that effectively give you 10% of your bill to a future visit, but if you pop the whole thing on your entire visit, then you can't tip, so he and I worked out a deal where the other one tips double on those cases, so it's all good.
As our service staff are paid a living wage I tend to only pay a tip for good service, generally up to about 10%. There have been a few times when I have not had any cash on me and wanted to leave a tip and they couldn't add a tip onto the bill to be paid by card, so I just remembered to bring extra cash the next time I went in there.
This is a typical example of Internet outrage.
I saw the post on Reddit and just shrugged. There will be jerks out there, no need to get bent about it, and certainly don't post it unless you want to get fired.
Then of course the gangs on the internet get all high and mighty about it, I'm sure most because it was a Pastor that did it (religion=evil to this group of people), blowing one small thing into a national crisis.
People if you want to get upset, get upset that the serving industry is set up the way it is. That restaurants pay minimum wage and defend this because of tipping.
I'm a generous tipper, usually about 20%, but I'm never going to look down on a person who refuses to tip.
MadEdric wrote: This is a typical example of Internet outrage.
I saw the post on Reddit and just shrugged. There will be jerks out there, no need to get bent about it, and certainly don't post it unless you want to get fired.
Then of course the gangs on the internet get all high and mighty about it, I'm sure most because it was a Pastor that did it (religion=evil to this group of people), blowing one small thing into a national crisis.
Yeah...
Not really. Most people would "get upset about it" because it's a Pastor (someone who is supposed to be setting a good example and to be an exemplar of their faith's teachings) disputing an automatic gratuity (which is standard policy in most large dining establishments that do not have playgrounds, happy meals with toys, or a drive through window) that was levied on her party because they had a large number of persons in the party.
To top it off, she then decided to make a smarmy remark on the receipt belittling the server.
People if you want to get upset, get upset that the serving industry is set up the way it is. That restaurants pay minimum wage and defend this because of tipping.
I'm a generous tipper, usually about 20%, but I'm never going to look down on a person who refuses to tip.
It has nothing to do with the tips or refusal to tip. It's the way the Pastor decided to refuse to tip.
As has been mentioned previously, a large party is going to take most of a server's attention during the time that party is present. That means less chances to get tips--or in some cases, only a single chance to get a tip depending on the size of the party and the length of time they spend at the establishment.
To counteract that, many establishments have an automatic gratuity which you are charged if your party is a certain size regardless of whether or not everyone gets a single check.
The pastor reputedly tried to get around this by requesting multiple checks, and when that failed she refused to authorize the gratuity and left a smart remark which clearly was belittling to the server.
MadEdric wrote: This is a typical example of Internet outrage.
I saw the post on Reddit and just shrugged. There will be jerks out there, no need to get bent about it, and certainly don't post it unless you want to get fired.
Then of course the gangs on the internet get all high and mighty about it, I'm sure most because it was a Pastor that did it (religion=evil to this group of people), blowing one small thing into a national crisis.
People if you want to get upset, get upset that the serving industry is set up the way it is. That restaurants pay minimum wage and defend this because of tipping.
I'm a generous tipper, usually about 20%, but I'm never going to look down on a person who refuses to tip.
Hey, let's clear one thing up. We ("internet people") didn't make this about her religion. She did. She endorsed that message and her actions in her official capacity as pastor, representing herself, her constituency (I think there's a better word for that), and her religion. That's on her.
As far as it being internet outrage? Well, yeah, probably. Is it a valid target of internet outrage? Well, maybe some popular opinion to turn this wretch into a social pariah wouldn't be such a bad thing.
At any rate, beyond coming down from your ivory tower yourself to tell all us low people about how we're wasting our time feeding the hate machine, what's your point?
castellan wrote: Tipping your waiter is good behavior. It is about customs and courtesies. This is how we do things.
Be nice.
In the face of a bad waiter, I refuse to be "good"
Now by bad waiter, I don't mean tripping up on the order, or screwing up how they cooked my steak (that's most likely the cooks fault anyways). I don't even mind if the food is bad (I just won't ever come back). However, one of the biggest factors that lead to me slashing the tip amount is when a waiter basically ignores me when I need a refill. There was one particular time when the waitress walked past me several times during the course of my visit, and not once refilled my drink. I kept nudging it closer and closer to the table edge, and still she did nothing. Then she went and asked me if I wanted a to go cup when I left. She wound up with no tip, on top of some other jazz.
The whole tip out of pity does nothing for me either. If the job sucks so much, get a different one. Taking waiter out of the possible job choices will not shrink the pool to unacceptable levels.
I treat a tip much like respect. It is earned, not simply given.
Know, I always tip, Why? Because tips get pooled at the end of the day, So im stiffing the nice people aswell.
What i dont get is tips in places that dont serve you, like starbucks or subway.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Know, I always tip, Why? Because tips get pooled at the end of the day, So im stiffing the nice people aswell.
What i dont get is tips in places that dont serve you, like starbucks or subway.
Except that in those places, they do serve you. The hipster at the Starbucks is just as much a waiter/waitress as the guy that brings food and drinks to your table. A good "barista" (i.e. coffee maker at a coffee shop) is almost as important as a good bartender at a bar.
Alfndrate wrote: Except that in those places, they do serve you. The hipster at the Starbucks is just as much a waiter/waitress as the guy that brings food and drinks to your table. A good "barista" (i.e. coffee maker at a coffee shop) is almost as important as a good bartender at a bar.
We were told that you only tip if they bring food to your table because there's actually someone serving. If you wait until they call your number and then you grab it, like at Starbucks, then you don't tip. There is skill in coffee making, but that's what paying for the coffee is about.
Anyhow, as confusing as tipping was for us when we were in the US, I was won over pretty quickly to tipping. The strength of the system is clear in the results - service in the US is amazing. The worst service my wife and I got in the US was better than just about any service we've gotten here in Australia.
castellan wrote: Tipping your waiter is good behavior. It is about customs and courtesies. This is how we do things.
Be nice.
In the face of a bad waiter, I refuse to be "good"
Now by bad waiter, I don't mean tripping up on the order, or screwing up how they cooked my steak (that's most likely the cooks fault anyways). I don't even mind if the food is bad (I just won't ever come back). However, one of the biggest factors that lead to me slashing the tip amount is when a waiter basically ignores me when I need a refill. There was one particular time when the waitress walked past me several times during the course of my visit, and not once refilled my drink. I kept nudging it closer and closer to the table edge, and still she did nothing. Then she went and asked me if I wanted a to go cup when I left. She wound up with no tip, on top of some other jazz.
The whole tip out of pity does nothing for me either. If the job sucks so much, get a different one. Taking waiter out of the possible job choices will not shrink the pool to unacceptable levels.
I treat a tip much like respect. It is earned, not simply given.
I don't have a problem with low tipping if the server himself or herself did a poor job or was rude or behaved inappropriately, although I've eaten in a lot of different restaurants in a lot of different places and can't remember ever getting a server that I thought did a bad enough job to warrant being stiffed or getting an especially low tip. It's also important to take how busy the restaurant is into account. A customer shouldn't realistically expect to have the same speedy service during a Friday or Saturday night dinner rush while the place is completely packed as on a Monday or Tuesday when no one else is in the restaurant.
And while I do think good servers should be attentive to a patron's needs, including drink refills, it's possible she jut didn't notice your cup was empty. Rather than silently nudging your glass, just asking, "Excuse me, could I please get a refill?" the next time the server came by would have been a better way to solve the problem, rather than continually waiting and saying nothing and just ending up giving a poor tip at the end. It could also be the case that she kept seeing you fiddle with your cup and just figured you still had something to drink.
hotsauceman1 wrote:Know, I always tip, Why? Because tips get pooled at the end of the day, So im stiffing the nice people aswell.
What i dont get is tips in places that dont serve you, like starbucks or subway.
Not all places pool or share tips. It varies depending on the restaurant and sometimes the location.
Alfndrate wrote: Except that in those places, they do serve you. The hipster at the Starbucks is just as much a waiter/waitress as the guy that brings food and drinks to your table. A good "barista" (i.e. coffee maker at a coffee shop) is almost as important as a good bartender at a bar.
We were told that you only tip if they bring food to your table because there's actually someone serving. If you wait until they call your number and then you grab it, like at Starbucks, then you don't tip. There is skill in coffee making, but that's what paying for the coffee is about.
As far as places like Starbucks go, you wouldn't normally tip on a whole order. Usually there is just a common tip jar. It's appropriate to leave a dollar now and then, especially if service was particularly good. It always is appreciated, but it's not as important as tipping at a sit down restaurant where the servers' hourly wage is under minimum. It also depends on what you're getting. If you order a bottle of water or a just a cup of filter coffee I wouldn't worry about it, but if you order a giant fancy espresso drink that takes forever, or if you order multiple drinks and several pastries, throwing a dollar in the jar is a nice gesture.
Hordini wrote: As far as places like Starbucks go, you wouldn't normally tip on a whole order. Usually there is just a common tip jar. It's appropriate to leave a dollar now and then, especially if service was particularly good. It always is appreciated, but it's not as important as tipping at a sit down restaurant where the servers' hourly wage is under minimum. It also depends on what you're getting. If you order a bottle of water or a just a cup of filter coffee I wouldn't worry about it, but if you order a giant fancy espresso drink that takes forever, or if you order multiple drinks and several pastries, throwing a dollar in the jar is a nice gesture.
Hordini wrote: As far as places like Starbucks go, you wouldn't normally tip on a whole order. Usually there is just a common tip jar. It's appropriate to leave a dollar now and then, especially if service was particularly good. It always is appreciated, but it's not as important as tipping at a sit down restaurant where the servers' hourly wage is under minimum. It also depends on what you're getting. If you order a bottle of water or a just a cup of filter coffee I wouldn't worry about it, but if you order a giant fancy espresso drink that takes forever, or if you order multiple drinks and several pastries, throwing a dollar in the jar is a nice gesture.
That makes sense, thanks.
Yup, I rarely go into the local starbucks, but when I do, I get a coffee with a little bit of room for my creams and or sugars. Not enough time, effort, or imagination for me to feel the service was good enough. Though I have several co-workers that go around three times a day (I tend to drink the office swill), and they give tips to their favorite baristas, but it is far from a required thing. Tipping when a particular person is on shift, can tend to lead to things like the occasional free "tall" coffee (their smallest size), or even some pastry, but that is often the server returning the favor of tips and a hope for more down the road.
It's all up to you, hell I got tipped on my old paper route, even though I was "paid" in minimum wage (it was barely like 6 bucks an hour, considering I only worked 2 hours a week), I got tipped because the collection for bills would be 3.50, and it'd be easier to just hand me 4 bucks. There were several people during the holidays that would drop a 20 in my hand, and I'd listen to any complaints and write notes on their cards if they needed/wanted adjustments to their delivery. Tipping is meant to be a thank you for good service, and in a hope for better/continued tips, you provide good or better service than you did. I won't lie when I say that I gave preferential treatment to those that tipped over those that didn't.
Hordini wrote: As far as places like Starbucks go, you wouldn't normally tip on a whole order. Usually there is just a common tip jar. It's appropriate to leave a dollar now and then, especially if service was particularly good. It always is appreciated, but it's not as important as tipping at a sit down restaurant where the servers' hourly wage is under minimum. It also depends on what you're getting. If you order a bottle of water or a just a cup of filter coffee I wouldn't worry about it, but if you order a giant fancy espresso drink that takes forever, or if you order multiple drinks and several pastries, throwing a dollar in the jar is a nice gesture.
That makes sense, thanks.
Speaking as someone who worked for quite some time at Starbucks, as well as at other coffee shops, this is basically it. Tips aren't generally expected, but they're certainly appreciated, especially if you have a huge group and you all order super complex and/or large drinks that take up more time than usual.
I went to a sports bar where a friend worked, and for tip I wrote down helpful life advice, "like always wrap it before you tap it" and then I gave her a monetary tip as well.
I went to a sports bar where a friend worked, and for tip I wrote down helpful life advice, "like always wrap it before you tap it" and then I gave her a monetary tip as well.
I would have given her the whole thing.
Servers in the US do not get paid much and tips are all they really have to go on.
Most people in the U.S. tip, some tip well, others tip not so great, but as a server you have to do your best and make sure everything went well. If you do your best you should be rewarded.
That said however if you do not like that people can just not tip you find a different job.
I remember seeing this reciept a while back....how is this news again? This reciept pops up here and there with the OMG this just happened! when I read it somewhere months or a year ago.
I will absolutely never leave a dime in a Starbucks jar, to which I only ever get drive-through. it's not different than having a tip jar at McDonalds or Taco Bell. "Tipped employee" has a specific legal meaning in this country.
Paitryn wrote: I remember seeing this reciept a while back....how is this news again? This reciept pops up here and there with the OMG this just happened! when I read it somewhere months or a year ago.
This story broke like a week ago. You're thinking of something else.
DeathReaper wrote: That said however if you do not like that people can just not tip you find a different job.
Spoken like one who hasn't had to look for a different job in the past five years...
I have not had to look for a different job in the past five years.
I used to be a Bartender/Server at a restaurant next to the train line that serviced O'Hare Airport (One of the busiest airports in the world). I got tired of the foreign people not understanding that tipping was relied upon in the U.S. to earn a good wage.
I got tired of getting an 8% tip when I gave great service and the customer had no complaints.
So I got out of the bartender/server business and I am satisfied.
I loved being a server/bartender. Some lunch shifts (11 am- 2pm) I would make $50 in tips. Some dinner shifts (5-10) I would make $80 in tips. Once I had a party of 18 guests they arrived at 7pm and they were gone by 9:30 pm, I was the only server for that party, made $140. I tended bar one St Patty's day 11 am-6pm and made $200.
The money was great sometimes, but it was not consistent enough for me.
Plus after work we would go drinking and I would spend 30-40% of my cash I made any given day so I knew I had to get something else, But it sure was fun while it lasted.
