So, we are a little over a year away from Warhammer 9th and I am wondering what do folks think will be the armies in the new Fantasy starter box. Which armies could do with the push the army box would bring, would GW surprise us again with a Skaven like choice. Of course at the same time what do we realistically think will be in there?

I was thinking the thread might be fun to look back at this in a year to see who was closest to the mark, as of right now there isn't really even any speculation or rumour on what might be in the box. So anyone wanting to join in, give us a choice of two armies, any reasons, and if you like you can also add a Surprise/out of left field styled choice as an alternative. (Basically an army or pair of armies you'd be surprised if it showed up, but it might make some kind of crazy sense after the Skaven/High Elf match up last time.)

As to my own guess..

I'm saying Orcs and Goblins Vs Dwarves

My reasons: Dwarves are rumoured to be getting a overhaul in design, so arriving in the starter box makes sense, it brings many more players to them as they are the box (how many folks started Skaven or High Elves last time) thus the risks of any changes are lessened. Also they are a classic fantasy race, and could have some nice fun stuff in the box, Cannon/Organ Gun, maybe a Gyrocopter. Then because I am convinced it'll be Dwarves, as an enemy force it has to be one of the Evil races, not only is Orc and Goblins the classic match up with Dwarves, but its been a while since they've been in the starter and they are a favoured race for starter box treatment It also lets them chuck in a couple of larger horde-ish units against the probable elite Dwarf force.

Out of left field choice: Dark Elves instead of Orcs and Goblins, would be their first time in the box, but it would be an interesting twist, and ties back to Dark Elves tricking the Dwarves previous to the War of the Beard. Might be a way of putting a monster in the box as well, maybe a Beastmaster on Manticore.


On a side note, some may think Warhammer 9th isn't coming next year, and thats fine, but I'd rather the thread is not bogged down by such posts. For those not sure, all I can say is the past ten years of GW releases says it is, as we have been on a two year alternating release schedule for Warhammer/40K since 2004.

So, does anyone else have any ideas on who we might see or comments?

Seeing as i'm a total WHFB newbie and hardly know anything much at all, I'm going to just say what I think would make a cool box from an aesthetic sort of viewpoint.

Dwarves, admittedly, would be pretty damn cool. Maybe a small force based around a cannon and some hard hitting infantry.

Kinda cool to see them go up against something really wild and savage like Beastmen, although Dark Elves would be cool too - lots of antipathy between Dwarves and Elves in pretty much all fantasy settings.

Orcs and goblins vs dwarves was 7th ed started, GW won't repeat it only 2 editions later.

According to wikipedia the previous box sets were;
4th High Elves vs Orcs and goblins
5th Bretonians vs Lizardmen
6h Orcs vs Empire
7th Dwarves vs Goblins
8th High Elves vs Skaven
(wow orcs and goblins are used a lot)

I'd like it to be something like Empire vs Vampire Counts but I don't see any pattern to the releases so it's completely up in the air.

What makes you think fantasy is so soon?

I don't think they will do dwarves and OnG so soon either..

Perhaps chaos vs empire?

chaos vs empire is possible, 2 very popular fantasy armies.

I would like to see a off the wall starter like Dark Evles Vs Toumb Kings. Something that would promote armies you don't see much of.

Chaos vs. Dwarves. Chaos will have a unit of marauder horsemen, a unit of 3 plastic trolls, a plastic chaos hero, 5 Forsaken and a unit of 10 warriors. Dwarves will then get a unit of 15 warriors, 10 gunners, 10 hammerers, a Thane and a Gyrocopter.

I have seen the future....and it is three trolls being launched through the air to tackle a Dwarven helicopter.

 AngelofBlood wrote:
I would like to see a off the wall starter like Dark Evles Vs Toumb Kings. Something that would promote armies you don't see much of.

Nah, I dont think undead will EVER get into a starter set

They rely on too many mechanics (undead special rules and a ton of magic)

While slightly complex, the warhammer starter cant be too complex for new people

It would be like putting in Wood Elves with an entire skirmisher army, it might be too confusing for new people






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 timetowaste85 wrote:
Chaos vs. Dwarves.

Better idea, reintroduce chaos dwarves! Put them in the starter!

 Von Chogg wrote:
What makes you think fantasy is so soon?

The company normally cycles updates on a regular pattern, so next year will be 4 years since the arrival of 8th and thats the about the normal lifespan of an edition. I REALLY don't think they need a 9th edition so soon and happy to be proven wrong.




I'd like to see Fishmen vs Chaos Dwarves in the box.

Beastmen and Empire would be a really nice and thematic mix. They look totally different.

Dark Elves versus Dwarves would be a good combo if both are getting done soon (c.f. Dark Angels and Chaos Space Marines). That would apply just as well for Dark Elves versus Lizardmen, but I feel that they are too similar - both use Cold Ones, both high magic, both somewhat elite all-rounder armies, etc.

IMO, I think GW needs to break away from the ironclad 4 year turnover some, but if it is the case that 9th is starting to get around the corner then I vote for Empire vs. Chaos.

It seems kind of ripe for the army of average stats to make a return. Also, it would be a good opportunity to get some alternative miniatures for the Empire line. I am looking at maybe a unit of Halberdiers since they are the standard infantry of the Empire (good thing is they can be easily convertable if it something like Spearmen instead) since it would provide a nice alternative to the lackluster box set. The main thing that I think they could really hammer out is a small unit of knights (maybe even awesome looking Reiksguard) that are upgraded to more appropriate-sized horses and more stylized armor that could also just as easily double for KotIC if you wish to use them with standard knights or begin converting all your knights to a more updated look. This could be combined with an artillery piece like a cannon or a mortar and for a second other unit maybe archers/huntsmen or crossbowmen (probably be too much to ask for a Halfling 'counts as' return for the archers as a sort of nice tie in). Finish it off with a spiffy new Captain or Warrior Priest for your hero with a Wizard and your golden. That would be pretty much cover all the bases (infantry, shooters, cav, warmachine, hero, wizard) for the all-rounder starter army.

Chaos on the other side can be the more "beat face army", which can be represented with a unit of Marauders since I don't think anyone is going to complain if they get new models no matter what opinion is from the new book. This could be couple off with a small unit of Chaos Warriors (which for model purposes could work for Chosen if they mimic Dark Vengeance in model quality). Maybe throw in some Warhounds. And for flavor and new models, maybe one or two Chaos Ogres to mimic the troll from the 7th ed starter. Put in a Hero and a Sorcerer and they are off to grind the Emperor's lackeys into the ground.

Other options I would go for is a return of Lizardmen or Beastmen to get some loving.

I don't even see the need for 9th tbh. 40k direly needed 6th because of major imbalances in regard to vehivcles.

WHFB, however, only has few minor points and magic that needs to be adjusted, but other from that, I consider WHFB to be pretty well-balanced.

 Sigvatr wrote:
I don't even see the need for 9th tbh. 40k direly needed 6th because of major imbalances in regard to vehivcles.

WHFB, however, only has few minor points and magic that needs to be adjusted, but other from that, I consider WHFB to be pretty well-balanced.

Well skirmisher/non hoard based could use a boost

And I kinda wish that a BSB and a Level 4 wizard werent so mandatory

I highly doubt 9th is closer than 2015. Its not comng out next year, I'm 99% positive on that.


My prediction is we will see all army books updated before 9th edition comes out. and when it does it will be a minorly adjusted 8th. Edition 8.5 if you will.

 Grey Templar wrote:

My prediction is we will see all army books updated before 9th edition comes out

That is a prediction I would love to see

But I'm not sure if GW loves bretonnians enough to do that!

It's not going to be any books updated recently. Being mid books, Empire and WoC won't be in there. Same with VC or Ogres. DoC is rumored to be the next book out, so I doubt it will be them.

That leaves: Dwarves, Skaven, HE, DE, Lizardmen, WE, Bretonians, Beastmen.

I'm thinking Bretonians vs Beastmen. I think that Beastmen had the last book in 7th, its unlikely to get an update anytime soon. Dwarves is possible, but unlikely since they were in last editions starter. HE is most likely getting an update soon. WE is too skirmishy to teach players how to play. So that leaves Bretonians...

Would love to see the beasties get some lovin' also some 25mm models would be nice after 2 editions of 20mm bases. Having said that I am really enjoying 8th and hope they don't come out with a new edition until 2016 maybe late 2015.

I would say that I personally like 8th WFB, butI get the impression that - for whatever reason - 8th didn't go down that well, and perhaps a new ruleset is what GW may regard as a way to revitalise sales.

I don't think we'll see a 9th edition anytime soon. GW seems to be bringing books into balance with 8th in mind, and so far all the books have been pretty well balanced against each other.

I really don't see why they would mess with what they got going on. We went from a MSU design to a large block of infantry design, better business for them where if you want a unit of 40 White Lions paying near $200 for a unit rather than $100 or $150 for 2-3 units of 10 with command and magic banners to take up more points in the army.

I think it'd be cool to have OK vs. Brets as a starter, though unlikely. If Brets do make it to the next starter then I'd guess it would probably be with Beastmen or maybe WE.

Despite my less than thilled reception to 8th, I think it would really benefit the company and games if they just stopped updating the games at 6th and 8th repectively.

Get all the codexes/army books up to date, and then just release new versions to evolve the meta.

But on topic, If they were to do a 9th edition I'd like to see Lizardmen vs Dark Elves with the setting based on the Dark Elves Temple raids.

 Eldarain wrote:
Despite my less than thilled reception to 8th, I think it would really benefit the company and games if they just stopped updating the games at 6th and 8th repectively.

Get all the codexes/army books up to date, and then just release new versions to evolve the meta.

But on topic, If they were to do a 9th edition I'd like to see Lizardmen vs Dark Elves with the setting based on the Dark Elves Temple raids.

Meh, doubtful as the frogs are rumored to be the second upcoming rulebook.

Wood Elves Vs Bretonnians. At least that box would make sense.

In reality it will be some stupid pairing like Tomb Kings versus Lizardmen.


A boy can dream about a Nippon vs Cathay box though.

I really don't want a new edition so soon esp. since i actually liked 8th edition overall. Not to mention i'm a skaven player and 'island of blood' box sets are a super cheap way for a skaven player to get a ton of clanrats/slaves or rat ogres and the alternative version of rat ogres is much more expensive with a lot less stuff and much uglier as a model. Not to mention they'll have to release the poisoned wind mortar separately from the 'island of blood' set when the new edition comes around.

However for 9th i'm guessing bretonnia or wood elves vs dark elves maybe. So yeah i figure bretonnia and dark elves. Hopefully not O&G again as that's very bland although i suppose they are obvious villains. Maybe they could throw beastmen in there as a bad guy.

As far as themes go i wouldn't worry about some of it too much. I mean how often do skaven and high elves fight each other and yet the end to the skaven army book had them fighting high elves (probably as a prelude to the 'island of blood' box-set they were planning but who knows). Normally skaven fight O&G or dwarfs and they're really good at fighting both. Skaven fight empire too but high elves is a big stretch considering they're more based around ulthuan which has somehow mostly stayed pristine from skaven presence or corruption.

So yeah either bretonnia vs dark elves/beastmen or wood elves vs beastmen or something. I figure having dark elves and high elves would be way too similar. That said beastmen and elves are both big on flanking but considering skaven and high elves both have fairly high initiative it'd still probably work. I mean i think beastmen are different enough from wood elves that it'd be a good match up and it totally makes sense. Sadly they probably won't do beastmen because the army book currently sucks but oh well.

My first thought as I read the topic was

Wood Elves vs Bretonia

Both armies are old veteran armies, have really old army books and two different themes in how to play them. It would be nice to see them both in a Starter Box so my vote goes for WE vs Brets. Reasons for clashes are given so yes, that would be awesome.

Beastmen Versus Empire although beasts being as unpopular as they are would lead me to believe that Chaos versus Empire might be more likely

Dark Elves vs Lizardmen woud be great as they could make some lovely models.

The choice of models in the starter set can determine how complicated you want the basic rules booklet to be.

Sorceress on Dark Pegasus, Witch Elves, Cold One Knights and Spearmen/Corsairs versus

Kroxigor, Saurus, Skinks, Teradons/Salamanders and a Skink Priest or two would be pretty similar to the excellent Island of Blood composition?

 Aerethan wrote:
In reality it will be some stupid pairing like Tomb Kings versus Lizardmen.A boy can dream about a Nippon vs Cathay box though.

very Large Lizardman Settlement on the border of the Tomb Kings so thats all good.

Armies of the Dragon Emperor versus one of: Lizardmen, Tomb Kings, High Elves, Empire or Chaos would be pretty awesome and a brilliant way of starting a new edition...........

Now if they could only bring out a shiny full update book at the same time as the rules that would be great for the gaming/balance side..........

It sounds weird to say it, but I think maybe Dwarves and Lizardmen. They're both rumored to be getting an update relatively soon, but the matchup sounds weird. However, they're both VERY different armies, both in playstyle and appearance, so it might be good.

The thing is about Orcs and Goblins... I don't know if I'm inclined to say that they're LESS likely to be in the 9th starter because they've been featured so many times, or MORE likely because, since they've been featured so many times, GW must love them. I would say that, if O&G are in the starter, then Dwarves probably will NOT be, because that matchup was already done in 7th.

My left field guess would be... WoC and Brettonia, assuming Brets get an update before then. Though, Chaos has never been in the starter set and they WERE in the 6th 40k starter set... but again, I don't know if those things make them MORE or LESS likely to be included.

Its possible they might do a similar release for 9th as they did for 40k 6th. Starter box with two armies which then get the first two updates.

 Sasori wrote:
I don't think we'll see a 9th edition anytime soon. GW seems to be bringing books into balance with 8th in mind, and so far all the books have been pretty well balanced against each other.

I agree but I have a friend who put it in simpler terms, As every 8th edition army book the orginial 8th books look better written.

 kenshin620 wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
I don't even see the need for 9th tbh. 40k direly needed 6th because of major imbalances in regard to vehivcles.

WHFB, however, only has few minor points and magic that needs to be adjusted, but other from that, I consider WHFB to be pretty well-balanced.

Well skirmisher/non hoard based could use a boost

And I kinda wish that a BSB and a Level 4 wizard werent so mandatory

Your defintely correct that in most races you need a lv 4 and BSB but not all.

I just won a tournament with my khorne demons and didnt have a lv 4. Of course demons need updated anyways. Also the undead dont really need bsb's too much.

 Mr Morden wrote:

very Large Lizardman Settlement on the border of the Tomb Kings so thats all good.

Except that the South Lands lack Saurus IIRC

 kenshin620 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

very Large Lizardman Settlement on the border of the Tomb Kings so thats all good.

Except that the South Lands lack Saurus IIRC

Not got my books to hand - however just read the Nagash novels and they had proper Saurus back then but they may have all died since then - its a few thousand years and just been left with Skinks - also recently read an older Lizardmen army book and they had Saurus and Slann IIRC......

 captain collius wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
I don't think we'll see a 9th edition anytime soon. GW seems to be bringing books into balance with 8th in mind, and so far all the books have been pretty well balanced against each other.

I agree but I have a friend who put it in simpler terms, As every 8th edition army book the orginial 8th books look better written.

All 8th books so far are almost perfectly balanced. WoC is the first one where I see some (minor) points in regards to overnerfs (aka Marauders now too expensive), but as a 100% Goblin player, I love my book

 Sigvatr wrote:
I don't even see the need for 9th tbh. 40k direly needed 6th because of major imbalances in regard to vehivcles.

WHFB, however, only has few minor points and magic that needs to be adjusted, but other from that, I consider WHFB to be pretty well-balanced.

I thought you used to hate 8th Ed?

Anyway, count me in as another "why does OP think 9th is so soon/we don't need 9th now/8th still has a couple years left on its cycle/etc" contingent. I'm guessing Summer/Fall 2015 will be the soonest it comes out.

But that doesn't address the OP's question! I think some can be ruled out - HE, Skaven, O&G, and Dwarfs specifically b/c of their recent starter set inclusions. I also agree having any Undead is a bit of a rash idea, so that already takes out about 2/5 of available armies...

 Infreak wrote:
Its possible they might do a similar release for 9th as they did for 40k 6th. Starter box with two armies which then get the first two updates.

I was thinking that. In which case, I'd guess Beastmen and Wood Elves, as I personally believe those'll be the last 2 books updated in this current cycle. Not sure if that's sexy enough to attract new players? I mean, sure it sounds that way - cool buff minotaurs and wood elves to appease any elf fanboy, but something about both together just doesn't sit right for me for some reason. Maybe b/c both books are near the bottom of popularity atm?

Regardless, my guess is any combo of Empire, Beastmen, Ogres, and WE. If I had to put $$ on it, I'd bet Empire v Beastmen.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 captain collius wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
I don't think we'll see a 9th edition anytime soon. GW seems to be bringing books into balance with 8th in mind, and so far all the books have been pretty well balanced against each other.

I agree but I have a friend who put it in simpler terms, As every 8th edition army book the orginial 8th books look better written.

All 8th books so far are almost perfectly balanced. WoC is the first one where I see some (minor) points in regards to overnerfs (aka Marauders now too expensive), but as a 100% Goblin player, I love my book

Fair point but as to the starter i think it will be

Brettonians vs. Beastmen

nice fit combat armies

Some good ideas and reasons, and yeah I totally forgot Dwarves and Goblins already happened so recently, so will go for the War of the Beard revenge match I suggested as my left field choice, Dwarves and Dark Elves.

As to not wanting/expecting 9th, it seems very likely it'll be next year due to the rolling cycle already in place and also folks have to remember the new editions are just as much about being a cash injection for GW, as tightening up, improving the rules set.

40K 4th (2004)
Warhammer 7th (2006)
40K 5th (2008)
Warhammer 8th (2010)
40K 6th (2012)
Warhammer 9th (2014?)

To be fair there where folks who felt there was no chance of 40K coming out in 2012 as well, but I've seen more than one rumour monger over the last five or so years say GW policy is to use the release of the main sets as a way to increase revenue, and like the price rises, this is something in my mind that will be here to stay.

 Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:

I thought you used to hate 8th Ed?

I hate the major flaws 8th brought, mainly the really terrible magic rules and the dumbed-down movement along with replacing skill with luck. I don't play WHFB competitively anymore as it's mostly luck- / list-based now, but I still play a 100% Goblin army...why endlessly hate on the lack of skill when you can embrace it and play an army that's fully based on luck?

Might play at the next local tournament though - with restrictions ofc. Unrestriced 8th is a joke.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:

I thought you used to hate 8th Ed?

I hate the major flaws 8th brought, mainly the really terrible magic rules and the dumbed-down movement along with replacing skill with luck. I don't play WHFB competitively anymore as it's mostly luck- / list-based now, but I still play a 100% Goblin army...why endlessly hate on the lack of skill when you can embrace it and play an army that's fully based on luck?

Might play at the next local tournament though - with restrictions ofc. Unrestriced 8th is a joke.

Yeah..... No apart from terrain not slowing anything anymore, 8th is a great ruleset (excusing usual gw illiteracy ofc).

I'd love to see the new box set be the "War of the Forest" with Wood Elves vs. Beastmen. That would be pretty neat.

I do agree GW needs to look over the new edition policy, and I think they will. The new army books are getting more balanced, and I think they might want to get the books out before they change.


I'd love to see Lizardmen or Ogres in the starter. Ogres vs. Brettonia. That would be a pretty wild starter.

Said it before and will say again:

Wood Elves vs Bretonnians,

both need major updates
both need new modesl
both need to get people collecting them.
Both are similar enough to be balance-able yet distinct enough.

Brets - unit of knights, archers men at arms, pegasus lord, sorcorerss
WE - archers, glade riders, plastic eternal guard, mage

 Spyral wrote:
Said it before and will say again:

Wood Elves vs Bretonnians,

both need major updates
both need new modesl
both need to get people collecting them.
Both are similar enough to be balance-able yet distinct enough.

Brets - unit of knights, archers men at arms, pegasus lord, sorcorerss
WE - archers, glade riders, plastic eternal guard, mage

But.. But.. But.. if they are both in the starter box, then us hipsters won't have any unplayed armies left to represent

 Krellnus wrote:

But.. But.. But.. if they are both in the starter box, then us hipsters won't have any unplayed armies left to represent

hipsters play WHFB??

 Krellnus wrote:

 Spyral wrote:
Said it before and will say again:

Wood Elves vs Bretonnians,

both need major updates
both need new modesl
both need to get people collecting them.
Both are similar enough to be balance-able yet distinct enough.

Brets - unit of knights, archers men at arms, pegasus lord, sorcorerss
WE - archers, glade riders, plastic eternal guard, mage

But.. But.. But.. if they are both in the starter box, then us hipsters won't have any unplayed armies left to represent

Kislev Do it.

 Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:

 Krellnus wrote:

But.. But.. But.. if they are both in the starter box, then us hipsters won't have any unplayed armies left to represent

hipsters play WHFB??

Hipsters play Dogs of War.

So many cool kits that could be made for DoW too, a shame it will never happen.

 Aerethan wrote:

 Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:

 Krellnus wrote:

But.. But.. But.. if they are both in the starter box, then us hipsters won't have any unplayed armies left to represent

hipsters play WHFB??

Hipsters play Dogs of War.

So many cool kits that could be made for DoW too, a shame it will never happen.

I could see Dogs of War being made if 9th has an Allies system like 40K6's.

However, it would most likely be a book of "here's units that can be allied to x army" instead of a stand alone army.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:

 Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:

 Krellnus wrote:

But.. But.. But.. if they are both in the starter box, then us hipsters won't have any unplayed armies left to represent

hipsters play WHFB??

Hipsters play Dogs of War.

So many cool kits that could be made for DoW too, a shame it will never happen.

I could see Dogs of War being made in 9th has an Allies system like 40K6.

However, it would most likely be a book of "here's units that can be allied to x army" instead of an army.

I'm more interested in new models than I am in how/what the army is or plays. Still, I like the idea of having infamous mercenaries that certain armies can hire.

My dream combo would be Kislev vs Cathay... they'll probably never do it, but a guy can dream.

I hope there is no 9th soon, I'm just getting back in to Fantasy and learning 8th.

If there is a starter box coming, I think Dwarfs will be in it. Their models are perfect for the monopose minis. As for the foe, O&G makes the most sense, but they did that too recently. I would guess LIzardmen.

But dwarves have already had a starter box and there isn't really a precident to follow like 40k has(which always has space marines of some kind in the box)

I'd actually be interested in an Empire vs Warrior of Chaos(or Beastmen) as the box set.

Whats with this WE bs Bretts? They're the only army us WE's acturally like!

So obviously it will be wood elves vs sisters of battle.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Whats with this WE bs Bretts? They're the only army us WE's acturally like!

So obviously it will be wood elves vs sisters of battle.

HA!


Brets vs WE makes sense because the 2 races share a border which makes it rather easy to place them in battle against each other. Same reasons as both Empire and Dwarves facing off against Greenskins.

Now the 5th edition box made zero sense. Lizardmen vs Brets... Because lance formations are so good in the jungle I guess.

Even HE vs Skaven is a stretch, and note that the setting had to be on some random island in order to make any real sense.

I don't see any reason for a 9th Ed. as I feel 8 is still very viable, but this is GW we are talking about. That being said I hate to be the party pooper but the two armies that would be coming out will be Beastmen vs. Lizardmen ....The Old Gods of Chaos vs. the Old Gods of the Jungle. There is no love in Bretonia and all you Elveses get too much love from yourselves anyways ...So bring on Chaos! Now if and I mean "IF" Empire were to get it I would say then it would be Empire vs. Vampire Lords ....

I thought Wood Elves and Bretonnia were buddy-buddies?

If I would have my way it'd be Brets vs Dark Elves.

Not really, some foolhardy knights are always trapsing through the Elven forest looking for monsters to slay and the Wood Elves take them out for walking on the flowers.

 Grey Templar wrote:
But dwarves have already had a starter box and there isn't really a precident to follow like 40k has(which always has space marines of some kind in the box)

I'd actually be interested in an Empire vs Warrior of Chaos(or Beastmen) as the box set.

Empire also had a starter box, too.

Also, Gobbos and High Elves have already both been in 2.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Not really, some foolhardy knights are always trapsing through the Elven forest looking for monsters to slay and the Wood Elves take them out for walking on the flowers.

God i hate elves. Wood elves are basically a bunch of tree-hugging hippies. May as well have a 'save the whales' sign or something. GET A JOB!!!

Heh i wouldn't doubt they smell like nature, crap, not showering in forever and pot.

 Aerethan wrote:

 Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:

 Krellnus wrote:

But.. But.. But.. if they are both in the starter box, then us hipsters won't have any unplayed armies left to represent

hipsters play WHFB??

Hipsters play Dogs of War.

So many cool kits that could be made for DoW too, a shame it will never happen.

Hipsters also still play Chaos Dwarves. One of these days they'll be a full warhammer army again without the expensiveness of FW!

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Wood elves are basically a bunch of tree-hugging hippies.

Hippies dont murder you in your sleep though, with living trees and medieval SAS!

@kenshin620: One can only hope on the subject of chaos dwarves but perhaps they were removed from GW's list for a reason. That said dark eldar became the sh*t the second they got a new edition and re-done models after the longest time ever.

Yeah hippies are too lazy and hungry for doritos and more pot. Can we just move all hippies to some place where they can all b*tch and moan and complain about people that actually do something with their lives and make actual choices with worth and consequence to them?

I understand that 9th is still almost 2 years away. But I have seen much talk, and also speculate either a Wood Elves vs. Bastmen box set. Or a Dwarfs vs. Orcs box. Maybe even Dwarfs vs. Wood Elves or Beastmen. But that is iffy as Dwarfs are rumoured to be out much before Wood Elves. I dont think it will be Skaven as they were just in Island of Blood.

Though I would like to see a Dwarfs vs. High Elves, both needto be redone, and this would be a good classic battle, though perhaps against the current lore.

Mountain-Breaker wrote:

Though I would like to see a Dwarfs vs. High Elves, both needto be redone, and this would be a good classic battle, though perhaps against the current lore.

Doubt it will be HE, they're already in the 8th box

Fantasy starter sets:
4th High Elves vs Orcs and goblins
5th Bretonians vs Lizardmen
6h Orcs vs Empire
7th Dwarves vs Goblins
8th High Elves vs Skaven

40k starter sets:
2nd Orks vs Space Marines
3rd Dark Eldar vs Space Marines
4th Tyranids vs Space Marines
5th Orks vs Space Marines
6th Chaos vs Space Marines

Now, judging from this we can draw three conclusions:

1. There is always one good army, and one bad army. So any elfs vs dwarfs, or Brettonia vs Wood Elves theories is probably void. The only exception is Brettonia vs Lizardmen in 5th
edition.

2. The same matchup is never used twice in fantasy.

3. The same race is not released twice in a starter set. (exception is SM, but this race has a special position in 40k selling more than all other races)

(4. We can presume there will be no undead.)

(5. matchups are not usually 'classic' empire vs chaos etc)

This leaves us with the possible matchups:

Empire, Brettonia, Wood Elves, Dwarves
vs
Chaos, Dark Elves, Daemons, Beasts, O&G.

Seing as how Bretonnia and Wood Elves relies on gimmicks such as buses and skirmish, I do not think they will be chosen. I think GW will go back to trying to make empire the "standard" template army for WFB, like SM is for 40k.

I think it will be Great Cannon, pistoliers, Swordsmen, Arquebusers, engineer and a general on horse.

Chaos has just been released, Daemons are too weird to put in a starter box. Beasts are rather obscure and too empirecentric. Dark Eldar has an unappealing aestethics to younglings considering starting the game if you ask me. They want broad appeal and a recognizable foe in the starter. Which makes me think O&G will win.

20 ors boys, 5 boar boys, 20 goblin archers, a shaman, a troll and an orc warboss. This will give close combat and magic advantage to the orcs, while the empire have shooting and the engineers tricks.

So this is deducted from previous releases; though Bretonnians have great starter set appeal with their massive knights and streaming banners (and hot sorcerer chick), so it could be them instead of empire...

I would like to hear counters to this matchup; Empire vs O&G, though.

I think the thing to considering when looking at what's going to be in the new box probably isn't what's massively popular at the moment, because they're going to sell a bunch of those armies anyway, because people want to play them.

Instead, it's a chance to shine up some less popular armies (not necessarily the least popular, just stuff that isn't in everyone's face at the moment). If everyone loves an army, they're not going to sell a large force at a discount price, because instead they can just get you to buy all the boxes individually at their pumped up normal prices.

They're going to try and get some new armies out there, get people interested at the low intro price, and then hope that sparks people buying the full price stuff for those armies.

 triplegrim wrote:

3. The same race is not released twice in a starter set. (exception is SM, but this race has a special position in 40k selling more than all other races)

And again, this is patently false. High Elves have featured twice since 4th edition(4th and 8th) and O&G thrice(4th, 6th, and 7th).

Even in 40K, Orks have featured twice.

I really don't know where people got that idea from.

I think he means "in succession"

The closest is orcs and then goblins, but an orc army is functionally different from a goblin army

Triplegrim, you are simply pointing out what has happened in the past. We don't really have much reason to assume that the next box won't have good versus good, just because it hasn't happened before. There had never been Skaven in a boxed set until 8th, after all. All that we can do is say that they have done this in the past. Current objectives (sell Beastmen! or whatever) will always trump a consideration of what was done in the past.

 Charles Rampant wrote:
Triplegrim, you are simply pointing out what has happened in the past. We don't really have much reason to assume that the next box won't have good versus good, just because it hasn't happened before. There had never been Skaven in a boxed set until 8th, after all. All that we can do is say that they have done this in the past. Current objectives (sell Beastmen! or whatever) will always trump a consideration of what was done in the past.

Well, I am deducing the system or logic behind previous releases to make a qualified guess at the future release. The publisher does not "consider what was done in the past" as you say, but they have to follow the same lines of decision making, which will make them land on similar releases.

We could instead use marketing logic, like some others in this thread have done; They need to appeal to newcomers to the game, fans of fantasy with certain expectations, and then the armies should be a good one versus a bad one, which is the whole topic of the fantasygenre and of WFB in particular.

Orcs are very common army released because they are an instantly recognizable army, who GW (for all their talk of IP) _stole_ from Tolkiens legendarium. To match it up are the more commonly recognizable armies, such as knights, magic elves and tolkienesque dwarves. The skaven last release was the only surprise so far, especially since they are one of the few armies "unique" to the warhammer universe. Now, however orcs, which are more marketable, will be released since it was not released last edition.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 triplegrim wrote:

3. The same race is not released twice in a starter set. (exception is SM, but this race has a special position in 40k selling more than all other races)

And again, this is patently false. High Elves have featured twice since 4th edition(4th and 8th) and O&G thrice(4th, 6th, and 7th).

Even in 40K, Orks have featured twice.

I really don't know where people got that idea from.

As Kenshin says, I mean twice in a row. Orcs and goblins are dissimilar armies, and was released as such. Though it certainly points to the enourmous popularity to put the orcs into the starter set.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kajata wrote:
I think the thing to considering when looking at what's going to be in the new box probably isn't what's massively popular at the moment, because they're going to sell a bunch of those armies anyway, because people want to play them.

Instead, it's a chance to shine up some less popular armies (not necessarily the least popular, just stuff that isn't in everyone's face at the moment). If everyone loves an army, they're not going to sell a large force at a discount price, because instead they can just get you to buy all the boxes individually at their pumped up normal prices.

They're going to try and get some new armies out there, get people interested at the low intro price, and then hope that sparks people buying the full price stuff for those armies.

But isnt there an element of the "introduction"-trick to the starter? That kids should be able to buy it, and play without using glue, and to get hooked on warhammer from it? Then it needs to be rather cool bad guys. Therefore I dont think Dark elves will ever be in a starter. And not undead or daemons either (as skulls and devils can drive parents away from the product). Half bakes Beastmen do look a bit offsetting as well, in my opinion, and the army is very obscure. If no one plays it already, why would kids start a game using them?

I am guessing there will be orcs and goblins, plus some wolfriders (to capitalize on the well known theme from the hobbit).

The good armies could be anyone actually, but i'm sticking to empire (with a slight chance for brettonians or wood elves) for good army. And O&G.

It usually seems to be a good faction vs an evil faction (or at least according to the alignment charts).

Orcs have way too much face-time in concerns of fantasy but i can understand why (mostly because people know orcs and understand they're bad).

I think beastmen would be a nice fresh look. I think it wouldn't take much to see that they're the bad guys.

Straight up daemons might freak out parents that have small children. Undead would just have a weird mechanic but overall i don't think they're too horrifying in most aspects to small children. The black coach, black knights/hexwraiths and the coven throne/mortis engine models might freak them out a little but it's much better than straight up daemons.

As for good guys i'd say either wood elves or bretonnia. Lizardmen would be interesting but i'd highly doubt seeing lizardmen and beastmen in a box-set would ever be a good idea for new players considering there's no sort of human appearance.

So actually i'd say wood elves or bretonnia but right now i'm leaning towards bretonnia just because they're very human and good with that whole king arthur and the holy grail feel going for them. You don't need more than a second to realize they're the good guys. Lizardmen with beastmen however would be a bit confusing.

I actually think having bretonnia in a starter set would help bring the army back into the spotlight esp. if a new army book is on the horizon for them. Sadly that might mean their army book is a ways off. Then again high elves were old and still are when the starter set featured them. In fact though skaven came in at the tail end of 8th they didn't see a release after the rulebook came out. 40k's 6th edition on the other hand has re-released both of their starter sets factions immediately after launch. Odd how that works. I wonder if fantasy will do that for 9th edition.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:


Straight up daemons might freak out parents that have small children. Undead would just have a weird mechanic but overall i don't think they're too horrifying in most aspects to small children. The black coach, black knights/hexwraiths and the coven throne/mortis engine models might freak them out a little but it's much better than straight up daemons.

Doesnt seem to bother the 40k crowd about "freakyness"

For crying out loud the sword of the chaos lord just screams "I will devour the souls of your loved ones!"

He is still not a walking zombie, a skeleton or a demon with half a boob hanging out -

Anyway, 40k is grimdark. There are no good guys factions.

 triplegrim wrote:
There are no good guys factions.

Sure there are! Jervis will swear on his life that Space Wolves are the good guys.

Space vikings? They're so good that they're baaaaaad, man

 kenshin620 wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:


Straight up daemons might freak out parents that have small children. Undead would just have a weird mechanic but overall i don't think they're too horrifying in most aspects to small children. The black coach, black knights/hexwraiths and the coven throne/mortis engine models might freak them out a little but it's much better than straight up daemons.

Doesnt seem to bother the 40k crowd about "freakyness"

For crying out loud the sword of the chaos lord just screams "I will devour the souls of your loved ones!"

Spoiler:

I still can't get over how cool the chaos marines in the new 6th edition 40k starter set are. I really like the chosen for some reason. Actually it's all good. As far as looky freaky i think that the daemonic dreadnought dude takes the cake but maybe that's just me. When i said children i meant more small children and i think somebody else mentioned it so i was just agreeing with it and adding to it. When you think about it though 12 year old boys love games with gore and murder to near extremes. I mean when i was younger mortal kombat was something kids loved (despite the mature rating) and the violence in that game was pretty over-the-top and graphic much like 40k is supposed to be in the lore. In fact on the topic of mortal kombat they showed a more recent one on the daily show (i barely catch up on games or on tv these days though honestly so keep that in mind) once in a video clip and 2 people ripped a dude in half (and i couldn't help but notice and laugh that at the end of the clip the ripped in half dead dude's head was basically between his own *ss).

 Platuan4th wrote:

 triplegrim wrote:
There are no good guys factions.

Sure there are! Jervis will swear on his life that Space Wolves are the good guys.

Wrong! Jervis is a Blood Angel fanboi!

Meh.

There still 16 months to go until this is released, that's presuming GW stick to their normal routine of releasing a WHFB on July of a World Cup Year, they could do it later for all we know. Honestly, WHFB doesn't have any "commitments" to any particular army, it's not like 40k where you can guarantee there'll be at least one, if not two, marine armies in the box. It could be anything. Chaos vs Empire is a classic matchup that hasn't been done; Wood Elves vs Dwarves also has a bit of a history in the fluff and would be two very different armies and they're both also, hopefully, getting a rehaul soon (my money, if I had to bet any, would be on this); Orcs + Goblins vs something isn't unlikely since O+G are used a lot. Meh, to be honest, it's far too early to be speculating.

I am kind of interested to see what the armies would be though I dont play fantasy. If the armies are anything like the DV sculpts in term of detail Ill be all over it.

I would love to see dwarfs in the starter though thats just because I like the dwarf models, or VC for the same reason. Empire vs WoC would be cool though too, but like I said before as long as they are cool sculpts I will be more then happy.

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 Von Chogg wrote:
What makes you think fantasy is so soon?

The company normally cycles updates on a regular pattern, so next year will be 4 years since the arrival of 8th and thats the about the normal lifespan of an edition. I REALLY don't think they need a 9th edition so soon and happy to be proven wrong.




I'd like to see Fishmen vs Chaos Dwarves in the box.

Yes but one year they didn't release anything for 10 months right after the new rules dropped. Personally I think it will be 2 years before an update. I think they will update HE, DE, Dwarves, and Lizards before the new rules.

 kenshin620 wrote:
I think he means "in succession"

The closest is orcs and then goblins, but an orc army is functionally different from a goblin army

Individually, yes, but a common codex makes sense - it's a balanced army book. Goblins = anvils, Orcs = hammers.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 kenshin620 wrote:
I think he means "in succession"

The closest is orcs and then goblins, but an orc army is functionally different from a goblin army

Individually, yes, but a common codex makes sense - it's a balanced army book. Goblins = anvils, Orcs = hammers.

Yeah but i've seen quite a few people take just goblins or just orcs with varying units like trolls in between. I actually find goblin armies with arachnoroks, netters and fanatics to be much more potent than orc armies. Speaking of which does anybody use regular goblins? I see night goblins and the forest goblins in the form of the arachnorok and maybe spider riders but no rank-and-file vanilla goblins. Is there any use to taking them? Sorry maybe i just haven't fought O&G enough but i just don't see normal goblins. Also it seems that people use goblin armies a lot more. I've gotta wonder if goblins overall are the better of the two types of greenskins and yet goblins are not respected if there's an orc around. Fantasy racism i says !!! Funny how in fantasy racism about different made-up factions is totally ok (like with dwarfs and elves but increasingly elves in most fantasy settings though it's ok because elves are easy to hate anyway given how every elf in every fantasy lore is).

Back on the subject of O&G though i always find it funny you guys mention how OP slaves for skaven are as a unit for points cost. Aren't night goblins also really good for what they do? I mean fanatics are significantly scary and they auto pop out the second an enemy unit gets close enough. Not to mention they can take up to 3 fanatics per night goblins unit with netters which is still really good even with the points increase since the last army book if i remember. I mean with skaven weapons teams can go on to clanrats and stormvermin but weapons teams have limited range and can be sniped before they do anything by anything from shooting to magic missiles. Fanatics come out of their units when an enemy gets close enough to them from what i've seen and heard. Having multiple individual models as compared to one with the multiple individual models not being as vulnerable for very long is kind of much better even if you can get a good shot or two in with the skaven weapons teams. Besides both are very random and die easily. I dunno i just find it weird how i never seem to hear people complain about fanatics and netters as much as say slaves from skaven or that clanrats have a good cost in points.

-----------------------------

Anyway sorry i went off topic. I think they should probably go the route of one army in the 9th edition starter set having a horde style. A chaos vs empire match-up would be nice as would some non-horde armies but i feel that a horde army is not only good for the bad guys in general but for horde army collectors. I can tell you that the 'island of blood' set has made life so much easier for me when getting enough clanrats/slaves for my army. For any horde collector that has undead or O&G or even beastmen this would be insanely good for getting a lot of models for really cheap.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:


Yeah but i've seen quite a few people take just goblins or just orcs with varying units like trolls in between. I actually find goblin armies with arachnoroks, netters and fanatics to be much more potent than orc armies. Speaking of which does anybody use regular goblins? I see night goblins and the forest goblins in the form of the arachnorok and maybe spider riders but no rank-and-file vanilla goblins. Is there any use to taking them? Sorry maybe i just haven't fought O&G enough but i just don't see normal goblins. Also it seems that people use goblin armies a lot more. I've gotta wonder if goblins overall are the better of the two types of greenskins and yet goblins are not respected if there's an orc around. Fantasy racism i says !!! Funny how in fantasy racism about different made-up factions is totally ok (like with dwarfs and elves but increasingly elves in most fantasy settings though it's ok because elves are easy to hate anyway given how every elf in every fantasy lore is).

I play a 100% Goblin army. The Arachnarok is bad. Get as many war machines as you can + squig herders + Goblin tarpits and you're good to go!

Competitively, Goblins&Orcs together are superior as they got more reliable hammer units, higher LD, more resilent characters, more potent magic and no problem with animosity. Style-wise, Goblins kick Orc asses. I mean, really. 300+ models on the battlefield is so awesome.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

I mean, really. 300+ models on the battlefield is so awesome.

You spend more time setting up and packing down than playing the game you mean?

I say, always good vs. bad army.. not going to happen

I say Vampire Counts vs. Tomb Kings!

and... the return of Nagash!...only in Finecast

 Spacewolfoddballz wrote:

and... the return of Nagash!...only in Finecast

Interestingly enough the original Nagash model is currently available in the collector section for the bargain price of $24.75, seriously!

I wish they would take out stuff like Acheraon (I spell that differently each time--CHAOS!) and nagash and the witch king guy and teclis. Because they either don't live up to their names or they do and are stupid overpowered and just get banned from games. Then tourneys just start going, no SCs, instead of going through and picking the really bad ones.

As much as I love Nagash, I could get behind a proposition like that.

Indeed

Be better off bringing them out as a collection of "Legendary" Characters that can be used in Winds of Magic / Appocalypse style games.

Many of them are Immortal or close as damn it and so period makes very little difference to them.

"Evil": Dracenfels, Nagash, Malkieth, Morathi, Zacharias,

"Good": Everqueen, Orion, Ariel, Sigmar,

"Neutral": varied Slaan, Setra, Neferata

Loads of others to add for those unique and exotic alliances that happen suprisingly often.

Getting back on topic so the thread isnt locked.

Like I said before, I would love to see dwarves in the next starter. If I had to wish for something it would be a plastic Gotrek and Felix, but that will never ever happen Im sure.

 Rotgut wrote:
Getting back on topic so the thread isnt locked.

Go Gotrex and Felix!