So it seems that GW are actually stopping people playing:
GAMES WORKSHOP, KINGS LYNN wrote: Within the next few months you will notice a few changes to your local Games Workshop. The first of these will be arriving in the next couple of weeks.
The most important of these changes is that we will be bringing to a close our open gaming. This is great news as it inevitably means that you local store will be hosting fantastic new activites and events designed to give you a whole host of new hobby challenges and our trained staff will be on hand to support you and make sure that you get the most out of this awesome new programme.
I am sure that many of you will have already noticed a huge surge of GCN clubs we have recently been helping promote and start. We have done this to ensure that all your current hobby activites are continued to be supported in appropriate locations available to all.
Finally I wish to allay any fears or rumours some of you may have or have heard. Namely that Games Workshop is "getting rid of its regulars". Please do not be concerned as this is not the case. GW intends to support ALL of their collectors be they new or old, and the coming changes are entirely geared towards us being able to do this for now until forever - YOU ARE CATEGORICALLY NOT BEING TOLD TO LEAVE.
I know that some of you may have questions after reading this, please do not post them below - instead please talk to a member of staff.
Hopefully you trusted me in Kings Lynn, and I ask you trust me now, this will be a great an wonderful journey for the store (there is going to be some seriously cool stuff coming) and as ever we have all your best interests at heart.
Thank You
My GW started to encourage people not to play, but now it seems that they may be saying "no-no" to it altogether now.... :( I wonder if this will spread across more/all stores?
progreen10 wrote: So it seems that GW are actually stopping people playing:
GAMES WORKSHOP, KINGS LYNN wrote:
The most important of these changes is that we will be bringing to a close our open gaming. This is great news as it inevitably means that you local store will be hosting fantastic new activites and events designed to give you a whole host of new hobby challenges and our trained staff will be on hand to support you and make sure that you get the most out of this awesome new programme.
I don't think I have ever seen a better example of "polishing a turd".....ever. Who do they think they are kidding?!?
First it is; "Please, don't buy our rules" (see Skies of Fury). Then it is; "Please, don't buy our models" (see NA Trade Agreement) And finally we have; "Please, don't play our game"
They practically just focus on getting new people into the hobby, taking all their money, then providing them with no support afterwards. My GW has 4 tables. 3 of them are for beginners. The last table has to be booked in advance and even when you do get a game there, they rush you, because apparently they don't want you "lingering". They always seem to have 'some sort of event' a short time after you book a table, and you "HAVE to be done by a certain time". Funnily enough, there is very rarely an event on, and even when there is, barely anyone turns up for it.
If they actually did this in my local GW, I would laugh, then sit there, silently and then finally a dark hatred would envelope my soul. I would then sell all my models and just read books, maybe keep a few 'special' models and still hold the universe close to heart, but the relationship with GW would be exactly the same as Horus and the Emperor, except GW is Horus.
Grot 6 wrote: Yes. there is no gaming in the game store.
The new "model" is to get you out of the store as fast as possible with as little money in your wallet as they can in the space of five minutes.
No gaming, no hhhobby, no anything.
Ever feel like you've been cheated?
Why can't GW be honest about it and evolve into a fully fledged crime syndicate where the employees just mug me and take all my cash? It'll be a more pleasant experience.
Wondering why i bothered coming back to this hobby after a few years away after reading that statment. when i first started i loved being in the Local GW (manchester before the bomb) they actually encouraged you to play.
Sounds like this is an effort to control the amount of hobby/community exposure there is to beginners.
The less people buying in to the game are exposed to others already in the game the more likely GW will be able to make a sale. Once those new hobbyist are out in the world and starts finding stuff online, they run in to the community and will find the dirt that GW has created.
Maybe not true, but this is what it is sounding like to me.
I can't believe that you are all being so cynical. I am very exited to see their upcoming activities and events, such as who can buy the most Space Marines, and how many flyers can you take home on the tube.
Hasn't happened in my closest GW store, we still have gaming sometimes, its one of the features that I like about this store: friendly managers, gaming.
unmercifulconker wrote: If they actually did this in my local GW, I would laugh, then sit there, silently and then finally a dark hatred would envelope my soul. I would then sell all my models and just read books, maybe keep a few 'special' models and still hold the universe close to heart, but the relationship with GW would be exactly the same as Horus and the Emperor, except GW is Horus.
spaceelf wrote: I can't believe that you are all being so cynical. I am very exited to see their upcoming activities and events, such as who can buy the most Space Marines, and how many flyers can you take home on the tube.
It's not as far out there as you think. My local store had a gaming olympics type event last summer, where points were awarded for feats such as buying kits and introducing friends. I'm not sure there was even a prize.
This is nothing new so I don't understand the anguish. GW has been doing this with its shops for the last number of years
Move to a gaming club, set your own up or go play somewhere else.
GW are not going to change their current course any time soon. Hhhhobbyists can either lament the change whilst changing their habits or just lament them and wallow in what ifs and days gone by.
Going to a local club is probably the best thing a player can do - it'll provide a wider range of games and different systems as well as getting them away from the idea of the "GW HOBBY" being all there is.
I can understand why they're removing "open gaming".
It's not the greatest thing when you have people who arrange games and then one person never shows or they both do show up and end up just hogging the tables until they decide to leave.
ProtoClone wrote: Sounds like this is an effort to control the amount of hobby/community exposure there is to beginners.
The less people buying in to the game are exposed to others already in the game the more likely GW will be able to make a sale. Once those new hobbyist are out in the world and starts finding stuff online, they run in to the community and will find the dirt that GW has created.
Maybe not true, but this is what it is sounding like to me.
*Sigh*
Those words were probably spoken exactly as you said them at at least one of GW's recent marketing meetings. I think they have realized that they have angered their once loyal followers enough to where they might stop playing and look elsewhere; with the internet those of us who care can see that some of their best have left to create their own companies based on the values and dedication to its followers that made GW great in the first place.
So instead of trying to win back people who have already invested thousands of dollars and can only be expected to contribute a few hundred more over the years verses acquiring new people who won't recognize the trap of their marketing-created rules that force you to spend at least $1,000 before you have any semblance of a complete army; all the better if they an get us out of their store so the new players won't even know about Dakka (Any time I have brought up the online community at GW, they take the stance that it is either their Facebook page or troll land that has nothing to contribute to the hobby). so the only way people learn what they need to be competitive is to buy and play through trial and error at their "events".
Ya, the similarities between GW's transformation and EA's years ago can't be ignored at this point, We are just going to have to be resigned to the fact that GW will now and forever more put marketing first and gamers second, and hopefully when this industry's 2K arrives and shows the world where fan service, art and solid mechanics can coexist, I'll hopefully be able to use some of my GW models.
But they'll get their wish and I'll never go into a GW again if that's true. Randomly showing up in my spare time to pick up a game is what made me purchase the majority of my supplies and extra units to work on while I waited, honestly it was the only way they got any business out of me in the past year aside from the 6th edition rule book.
It really sucks living in an area where the closest FLGS is twice as far away as the closest GW, but I guess it is time I looked elsewhere to play.
Kanluwen wrote: I can understand why they're removing "open gaming".
It's not the greatest thing when you have people who arrange games and then one person never shows or they both do show up and end up just hogging the tables until they decide to leave.
Amen brother, that is such a wide spread problem that the only possible solution is to outright ban normal games from the store! Its not like something like that could be easily solved by instituting a maximum amount of time for a gaming table to be used, or that some sort of scheduling or reservation system could be instantiated...
By this point it shouldn't really surprise me that some people would try to defend even something like this, but it still does...
Fenrir Kitsune wrote: Going to a local club is probably the best thing a player can do - it'll provide a wider range of games and different systems as well as getting them away from the idea of the "GW HOBBY" being all there is.
Clubs can be just as bad though, esp. if they we're formed in "GW towns". You have to put in a exorbitant amount of effort to tear members away from GW games; simply because it requires spending money on a new game.
IF you do get a new game started up there, you'll only have a small clique within a niche group (and even in there you'll have people unwilling to expand past the starter box) where the games become, for lack of a better term, a little... incestuous. You fail to develop as a player due to playing the same people over and over again with no chance to experience differences of the wider game.
Heaven forbid if you also get someone who feels the need to babysit every game in said clique...
It's just not worth the sheer amount of effort in my experience.
Kanluwen wrote: I can understand why they're removing "open gaming".
It's not the greatest thing when you have people who arrange games and then one person never shows or they both do show up and end up just hogging the tables until they decide to leave.
Amen brother, that is such a wide spread problem that the only possible solution is to outright ban normal games from the store!
Why so sarcastic?
Its not like something like that could be easily solved by instituting a maximum amount of time for a gaming table to be used, or that some sort of scheduling or reservation system could be instantiated...
But that's the problem with "open gaming". The players themselves set up the games, and any time a store goes to a 'scheduling or reservation system' people react the same as they do to an "end to open gaming".
You might not see the issue with "open gaming". But speaking as someone who has seen how it can be taken advantage of, limiting to "Demo Games" outside of store sponsored events is actually a far more manageable idea.
Kanluwen wrote: I can understand why they're removing "open gaming".
It's not the greatest thing when you have people who arrange games and then one person never shows or they both do show up and end up just hogging the tables until they decide to leave.
Amen brother, that is such a wide spread problem that the only possible solution is to outright ban normal games from the store! Its not like something like that could be easily solved by instituting a maximum amount of time for a gaming table to be used, or that some sort of scheduling or reservation system could be instantiated...
By this point it shouldn't really surprise me that some people would try to defend even something like this, but it still does...
Never underestimate how many plants GW might have in their Marketing dept. I wouldn't be surprised if it is a requirement for people on their Marketing staff (if not every employee, since they are all required to check in and out of facebook and "like" certain things; no gak, it is in memos they leave laying around) to go online every so often and upvote everything positive about GW in polls around the internet and defend them with arguments crafted in house by committee. I'm not saying that's you Kanluwen, but is is a more common practice than you think.
I worked for a company that designed a website (under another separate company) specifically to appear as an objective reviewing process of companies within the industry it served just so five years later, after establishing credibility, it would always put the companies also owned by the owner of the website on top of the ratings and receive positive reviews more often than any other company. Never underestimate the underhandedness and psychological approach of marketing execs.
Kanluwen wrote: I can understand why they're removing "open gaming".
It's not the greatest thing when you have people who arrange games and then one person never shows or they both do show up and end up just hogging the tables until they decide to leave.
Amen brother, that is such a wide spread problem that the only possible solution is to outright ban normal games from the store!
Why so sarcastic?
Because your statement was so utterly boggling.
Tell me how two people hog multiple tables or take too long playing the game? As far as I'm aware, two people come to a gaming table, set up, play and then pack their gak away. If they still have their stuff laying about or are buggering off someplace and leaving stuff there, it's for the staff to request they pack up or just pack their stuff off the table, in the rare and peculiar instance that might happen. Further, how do they hog a table if one doesn't show? Does the individual who did cover the table in his minis and tears in some form of 'occupy' styled protest?
Its not like something like that could be easily solved by instituting a maximum amount of time for a gaming table to be used, or that some sort of scheduling or reservation system could be instantiated...
But that's the problem with "open gaming". The players themselves set up the games, and any time a store goes to a 'scheduling or reservation system' people react the same as they do to an "end to open gaming".
You might not see the issue with "open gaming". But speaking as someone who has seen how it can be taken advantage of, limiting to "Demo Games" outside of store sponsored events is actually a far more manageable idea.
What the hell? Open gaming facilitates games getting played, that's the purpose of the entire fething company, how is that taking advantage.
Where on earth did you pull this nonsense from Kan, it's utterly legless.
This is a common issue as it happened at my local GW store. I ran a club not too far away playing mostly GW games but could never get any manager to come to us - we went through 5 in 2 years! W could never get people to come out of the GW to our club to play despite us having more tables and better terrain - thy wanted free play.
Then suddenly one day a couple of months back I got a message a host of them were coming down because they had, ever so nicely, been told to go and play somewhere else as the shop was for beginners really and they needed to go as they were taking the space they needed for beginners!
Suffice to say they were not pleased about the GW policy.
But that's the problem with "open gaming". The players themselves set up the games, and any time a store goes to a 'scheduling or reservation system' people react the same as they do to an "end to open gaming".
You might not see the issue with "open gaming". But speaking as someone who has seen how it can be taken advantage of, limiting to "Demo Games" outside of store sponsored events is actually a far more manageable idea.
And, by the way Kanluwen, any number of efforts could have been made to resolve the issues you are bringing up by a manager of whatever GW you play at. And no, I don't think that people having to reserve tables (still being able to play around their schedule) and people who can only play when GW deems it a "that particular GW hobby" day do not generate the same reaction. The old manager of the local GW, the one who earned my loyalty by encouraging me to reserve two tables to put together so my friends and I could have massive apoc battles that took all day, got way more business out of me than the current guy who interrupts my games with his breaks and makes me and everyone else leave their models in the store while he goes and has lunch & dinner elsewhere. I'm not saying that people who work at GW shouldn't be allowed to take breaks, but there is a vast difference between someone who will accommodate and encourage people to play the way they enjoy while still running a business vs a script reader who takes the stance of "take your play gaming elsewhere, I have sales to make."
Kanluwen wrote: I can understand why they're removing "open gaming".
It's not the greatest thing when you have people who arrange games and then one person never shows or they both do show up and end up just hogging the tables until they decide to leave.
Amen brother, that is such a wide spread problem that the only possible solution is to outright ban normal games from the store!
Why so sarcastic?
Its not like something like that could be easily solved by instituting a maximum amount of time for a gaming table to be used, or that some sort of scheduling or reservation system could be instantiated...
But that's the problem with "open gaming". The players themselves set up the games, and any time a store goes to a 'scheduling or reservation system' people react the same as they do to an "end to open gaming".
You might not see the issue with "open gaming". But speaking as someone who has seen how it can be taken advantage of, limiting to "Demo Games" outside of store sponsored events is actually a far more manageable idea.
I apologize for my sarcastic tone, was a bit uncalled for.
But you have to agree with me that the best way to promote miniature wargaming is to actually show the games getting played and people having fun playing them, right?
At least that is the way that I've contributed to the relaunch of a game and that is the way that every single game gets picked up over here... Some nutjobs order some minis, start playing whatever game in a public location, other people watch them and realize that its actually quite fun and order miniatures of their own... That is how it is done and without fail it has proven to be allot more effective as a recruitment tool than just offering demo games out of the blue.
With this measure that GW store is effectively shutting down their most powerful and FREE advertising tool.
unmercifulconker wrote: If they actually did this in my local GW, I would laugh, then sit there, silently and then finally a dark hatred would envelope my soul. I would then sell all my models and just read books, maybe keep a few 'special' models and still hold the universe close to heart, but the relationship with GW would be exactly the same as Horus and the Emperor, except GW is Horus.
Maybe you should get out more...
But thats like, your opinion bro....
Automatically Appended Next Post: It's annoying for me because the whole reason I got back into the game was to play again and there isnt even a local gaming store in my area. Ohwell, I suppose the only good outcome is that my wallet will be thankful.
kronk wrote: The game store near me is moving into a building with 3x times the space and similar rent (or so they say).
Play at your FLGS.
See, over here in the UK, we have very very few FLGS, so people either go to clubs or GW. GW aren't too happy about people hanging around in there, even if you are playing (in the case of a few stores at least, not for all), and not everywhere has a club. Where I live, I'm lucky, because I got a club nearby. (although I haven't been in a while)
I can sort of see the comparison GW is trying to make.
I mean, when I go to Gamestop (I mean, when I used to go to Gamestop), I didn't bring my console and a tv with me. And when I go to Home Depot, I don't get to break out the power tools and start working.
But GW's trying to act like its so far out of the norms of the hobby that it can ignore normal conventions. And that'll cause some harsh feedback, especially in the places where GW stores were the ONLY place people go together to play.
There seems to be quite a few FLGS in the UK? Maybe I'm just spoilt for choice in my town and surrounding ones.
Basically, there are a few people confusing the practices in the UK with the USA. The whole internet diatribe is over there, not over here... Does anyone maybe think that GW in the UK are considering pushing people to independent retailers?
I distinctly remember my local GW manager saying it costs 50% of what they make to run the store, which is more than their markup difference. Infact, the regional manager told the guy at our old FLGS that if our GW wasn't a "flagship gaming centre" they'd close it as the FLGS outstrips its sales and makes them a lot more money than the loss leader that the store was.
Basically, there are a few people confusing the practices in the UK with the USA. The whole internet diatribe is over there, not over here... Does anyone maybe think that GW in the UK are considering pushing people to independent retailers?
I haven't played a game in a GW since 1993. Their stores have shrunk to the point that no one can play in them even if they wanted to, save for a handful like World of Battle. Also they need to be open to play, when they have to close at lunch because there's only 1 person in the store, it's kinda pathetic.
Ugavine wrote: I welcome GW stores not having open gaming.
It's a shop, not a club.
Personally I can't stand it when you can get to shelves due to a crowd of kids who are not buying anything.
I avoid my FLGS on tournament days for the same reason.
I agree. It's offputting to more grown-up gamers to have kids running around, especially on weekends. And chances are they'll be spending a lot less money than me too I wouldn't want to game at GW anyway, what's the point of playing 40k if you don't swear repeatidly?
Yeah sadly this former white knight is painting his armor black. It is only a matter of time until our local GW goes to no gaming when this happens i will go to the much further FLGS or get a table and have my friends over. This is just (fill in angst filled cuss words) ridiculous.
This makes me sad, when I started playing at my local GW store it was awesome. Now they won't let us have their codices near the tables, and if this is true for everywhere we won't be able to play there anymore. There is very rarely new players almost everyone who hangs out at our GW store is veteran players.
GAMES WORKSHOP, KINGS LYNN wrote:
Within the next few months you will notice a few changes to your local Games Workshop. The first of these will be arriving in the next couple of weeks.
The most important of these changes is that we will be bringing to a close our open gaming. This is great news as it inevitably means that you local store will be hosting fantastic new activites and events designed to give you a whole host of new hobby challenges and our trained staff will be on hand to support you and make sure that you get the most out of this awesome new programme.
LoL sums up the bolded part.
GAMES WORKSHOP, KINGS LYNN wrote:
Finally I wish to allay any fears or rumours some of you may have or have heard. Namely that Games Workshop is "getting rid of its regulars". Please do not be concerned as this is not the case. GW intends to support ALL of their collectors be they new or old, and the coming changes are entirely geared towards us being able to do this for now until forever - YOU ARE CATEGORICALLY NOT BEING TOLD TO LEAVE.
What are the customers to do, though, if they can't game in the store? Go through intro games with the staff?
TEC wrote: Someone stole my gorram DakkaDakka username!!! I had to make a new account....
No one can steal a username that's already been registered...
Apparently they damn well can, because I have my original confirmation email that say my username (The Emperor's Champion), password, and associated email, and none of them are mine anymore.
My local GW Hobby Center Operator points out that this message is for A SINGLE UK STORE
something that applies to GW stores in general.
Um... no one is arguing this, but as others have pointed out, it's affecting more and more GWUK stores...
You know, you might like to think that, but Bell Of Lost Souls is taking this completely the wrong way, and from there it's trickled all the way to my Facebook (because otherwise I'd not have noticed).
No one here is arguing that this is a wide spreading GW thing, but like this thread has pointed out, GW King's Lynn is not alone with stores that have done this...
TEC wrote: Someone stole my gorram DakkaDakka username!!! I had to make a new account....
No one can steal a username that's already been registered...
Apparently they damn well can, because I have my original confirmation email that say my username (The Emperor's Champion), password, and associated email, and none of them are mine anymore.
This user? A user with 0 posts? That's an issue for Nuts and Bolts, if that is your username and you're trying to get it back, please take that there, as we're getting off topic.
No one here is arguing that this is a wide spreading GW thing, but like this thread has pointed out, GW King's Lynn is not alone with stores that have done this...
Nonetheless, The first post should REALLY make it clear that this isn't a widespread things that's suddenly happening to all stores.
No one here is arguing that this is a wide spreading GW thing, but like this thread has pointed out, GW King's Lynn is not alone with stores that have done this...
Nonetheless, The first post should REALLY make it clear that this isn't a widespread things that's suddenly happening to all stores.
Well, you see if GW corporate had a universal community page where they could make such an official statement such things would not snowball in a way only the Internet can make them do so.
If this is truly what they are rolling out to the public they are completely insane.
I would understand if they wanted to close the doors on their brick and mortar but to cripple FLGS abillity to bring product to their customers and then make it impossible for gamers to game anywhere else? absurd.
It was posted by the store's manager on the store's official FB page (a link which has been provided at least twice in the thread and is in the OP). It is NOT trolling.
I see this move as a completely good thing. If GW rolls this policy out to the world, that removes the only possible reason I'd have left not to use non-GW bits/models. The GTs are gone. If playing at a GW store is gone as well... Not, of course, that I gamed much at my local GW (before they closed it), but to be honest it was something in the back of my mind...
I read this article, read the comments, and thought....
It's not a customer friendly move to be sure, but that shouldn't surprise anyone.
#1 "Sales aren't where we want, inventories are stockpiling, what can we do to cut corners people?"
#2 "I know! Let's take a few stores, and phase out in store gaming, then reuse that freed space for storing our stuff that won't sell."
#1 "Are you crazy?!?! Getting people into stores and playing helps push product!"
#2 "Not a big deal. We'll see how sales perform with our test stores without open gaming; if sales are significantly down, we bring back open gaming and proclaim how we're now listening to the loyal customers we love so much. If sales don't drop enough to offset our cost savings, we do it to the other stores, taking a wait-and-watch stance."
#1 "But where will people -play- if we close the gaming areas?"
#2 "Who cares. Playing isn't our concern, sales are. Do you know how much of our purchased product is sitting in bins waiting to be painted, or even assembled? Lots. And then you have the figs that are assembled and painted, but never played. Collectors and hobbyists are who we need to target; actually playing games is something we need to convince our customer base is just a happy accident."
#1 "But we're a gaming company! People need a place to play our games!"
#2 "No, we're an IP management firm. People need a way to consume our intellectual property. Some of that freed space could go towards more pushing of the RPG lines, the novels, our digital products even!"
#1 "What about the tables, and the staff?"
#2 "More painting days. We get some staffers who can paint, have them teach classes, require only GW approved materials be used at the classes, and the parents have a way to drop off the kids for a couple of hours. Heck, we can package 'learner bundles' or materials and call it a convenience for the consumer."
I mean, I could be waaay off target here, but from a corporate stance it makes some sense.
No one here is arguing that this is a wide spreading GW thing, but like this thread has pointed out, GW King's Lynn is not alone with stores that have done this...
Nonetheless, The first post should REALLY make it clear that this isn't a widespread things that's suddenly happening to all stores.
But every month or two another store rolls out the same policy, so while not sudden it certainly is widespread (have seen threads for throughout Europe, Australia and the US in the past year). They definately favor this format over actually being an environment that fosters gaming.
dirge93 wrote: I read this article, read the comments, and thought....
It's not a customer friendly move to be sure, but that shouldn't surprise anyone.
#1 "Sales aren't where we want, inventories are stockpiling, what can we do to cut corners people?"
#2 "I know! Let's take a few stores, and phase out in store gaming, then reuse that freed space for storing our stuff that won't sell."
#1 "Are you crazy?!?! Getting people into stores and playing helps push product!"
#2 "Not a big deal. We'll see how sales perform with our test stores without open gaming; if sales are significantly down, we bring back open gaming and proclaim how we're now listening to the loyal customers we love so much. If sales don't drop enough to offset our cost savings, we do it to the other stores, taking a wait-and-watch stance."
#1 "But where will people -play- if we close the gaming areas?"
#2 "Who cares. Playing isn't our concern, sales are. Do you know how much of our purchased product is sitting in bins waiting to be painted, or even assembled? Lots. And then you have the figs that are assembled and painted, but never played. Collectors and hobbyists are who we need to target; actually playing games is something we need to convince our customer base is just a happy accident."
#1 "But we're a gaming company! People need a place to play our games!"
#2 "No, we're an IP management firm. People need a way to consume our intellectual property. Some of that freed space could go towards more pushing of the RPG lines, the novels, our digital products even!"
#1 "What about the tables, and the staff?"
#2 "More painting days. We get some staffers who can paint, have them teach classes, require only GW approved materials be used at the classes, and the parents have a way to drop off the kids for a couple of hours. Heck, we can package 'learner bundles' or materials and call it a convenience for the consumer."
I mean, I could be waaay off target here, but from a corporate stance it makes some sense.
Or they did some market research and found out that having a load of regulars in the store all the time makes the place look tacky. They may be trying to "clean up" their high street image.
Or they did some market research and found out that having a load of regulars in the store all the time makes the place look tacky. They may be trying to "clean up" their high street image.
Yeah, an empty store when you're trying to sell a social hobby is a good idea.
The local GW guy where I am is friendly, helpful, knows his product and encourages gaming in the store. It's too bad his masters set the pricing, driving most Aucklanders to the major (and cheaper) reseller.
Or they did some market research and found out that having a load of regulars in the store all the time makes the place look tacky. They may be trying to "clean up" their high street image.
Yeah, an empty store when you're trying to sell a social hobby is a good idea.
Blue knights gonna blue knight.
Maybe they will hire out a bunch of the guys who look like the Apple computer commercial guy to hang out and pretend to be gamers...
I am sure that all right-thinking wargamers have always considered that playing wargames is the very worst thing a wargames company could do to popularise its products.
I am sure that all right-thinking wargamers have always considered that playing wargames is the very worst thing a wargames company could do to popularise its products.
I know you're being facetious, but at least 2 people in this thread actually do.
Well, you see if GW corporate had a universal community page where they could make such an official statement such things would not snowball in a way only the Internet can make them do so.
Hoisted by your own petard again GW....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Da Boss wrote: It could be a strategy to deal with a particularly odious local group, you never know.
A poster on Warseer took the liberty to translate what was actually meant by GW:
Within the next few months you will notice a few changes to your local Games Workshop. The first of these will be arriving in the next couple of weeks.
The most important of these changes is that we will be bringing to a close our open gaming. This is great news as it inevitably means that your local store will now be only there for you to buy our overly expensive plastic models and then leave. Our untrained staff will be on hand to support you and make sure that we get the most out of you that we can.
I am sure that many of you will have already noticed a huge surge of GCN clubs we have recently been closing down so as not to promote the GW hobby. We have done this to ensure that all our stock holders are a happy bunch and it means we get to fleece you some more in store.
Finally I wish to make sure your fears are in actual fact true. Namely that we Games Workshop are "getting rid of its regulars". Please do be concerned as this is obviously the case. GW intends to support only the new, young and gullible soon to be collectors and the coming changes are entirely geared towards exactly that and we will do this now and forever. YOU ARE CATEGORICALLY NOT BEING TOLD TO LEAVE. YOUR JUST NOT WELCOME.
I know that some of you may have questions after reading this, please do not post them below - instead please talk to a member of staff.
Hopefully you trusted me in Kings Lynn, and I ask you trust me now, quite simply because we Games Workshop know you are stupid enough to do so.
That's disappointing. I never really got overly in to the gaming clubs near me as I never really liked hanging out with the people who frequented them, but occasionally just went to GW with my mate and played a few games.
Now, that was back home. I recently went to the GW store in Philly and frak me that was terrible, it stank to high heaven of BO and I had absolutely no desire to stay there.
If GW want to improve the quality of life in their stores and not scare away people with sensitive noses they need to implement a "store must have good ventilation" policy.
Of course, a positive of this new policy is I now have exactly 0 motivation to actually use GW miniatures. I used to not like using models from other ranges in my army simply because I did a lot of my gaming at the local GW store. Eliminate that and now there's really no reason to try and keep my armies primarily GW models.
So congrats GW, all the policies you've introduced in the past few months have successfully made you less appealing than other miniature companies.
One of my local GWs got rid of all of it's gaming recently.
It went down to a 1 man store and the manager basically said he wasn't able to run all the campaigns and gaming nights on his own so gaming would stop.
He said he wouldn;t do it until he had made sure that there was enough clubs in the area for people to game at first. He's managed to organise the existing local clubs and help create new ones (including an under 16's) so that there is a place to game every night of the week in that town.
So he gets a store that he can do his job in (introduce new people to the hobby) and everyone else gets a place to play without any of the store's restrictions on time, space etc.
ProtoClone wrote: Sounds like this is an effort to control the amount of hobby/community exposure there is to beginners.
The less people buying in to the game are exposed to others already in the game the more likely GW will be able to make a sale. Once those new hobbyist are out in the world and starts finding stuff online, they run in to the community and will find the dirt that GW has created.
Maybe not true, but this is what it is sounding like to me.
Emphasis mine.
That is exactly what they are doing, GW employees world wide are being told to push you out the door as fast as possible. One negative person can spawn an entire group of negative people especially those of us that have GWs track record. GW wants you to be dumb and ignorant as possible to their underhanded and dishonest business practices. I've said it once and I'll say it again; GW is at war with its own customers, they are putting up barrier after barrier in order to isolate and alienate customers as much as possible.
GAMES WORKSHOP, KINGS LYNN wrote:
The most important of these changes is that we will be bringing to a close our open gaming. This is great news
AHAHAHAHAHAHAH
I'm sorry, but I can't be the only person to find this hilarious!
That was pretty funny haha Wow this is crazy. I knew there were rumors about this but I didn't think they were real! One of my completely pro-GW friends said they should start charging people to even come in the store! And he and other players I know even agreed with decisions like that Ive only been gaming for a few years, but I have a bunch of 3rd edition 40k era White Dwarfs. Back then it seemed like the whole idea was to make people happy and let them have fun with gaming. Isn't it supposed to be a free environment for fun? Even after everything I didn't think they would stoop this low. This is the last straw, I'm done with GW.
Don't mean to rage but this just makes me mad.
I hope they figure out another solution
GAMES WORKSHOP, KINGS LYNN wrote:
Within the next few months you will notice a few changes to your local Games Workshop. The first of these will be arriving in the next couple of weeks.
The most important of these changes is that we will be bringing to a close our open gaming. This is great news as it inevitably means that you local store will be hosting fantastic new activites and events designed to give you a whole host of new hobby challenges and our trained staff will be on hand to support you and make sure that you get the most out of this awesome new programme.
I am sure that many of you will have already noticed a huge surge of GCN clubs we have recently been helping promote and start. We have done this to ensure that all your current hobby activites are continued to be supported in appropriate locations available to all.
Finally I wish to allay any fears or rumours some of you may have or have heard. Namely that Games Workshop is "getting rid of its regulars". Please do not be concerned as this is not the case. GW intends to support ALL of their collectors be they new or old, and the coming changes are entirely geared towards us being able to do this for now until forever - YOU ARE CATEGORICALLY NOT BEING TOLD TO LEAVE.
I know that some of you may have questions after reading this, please do not post them below - instead please talk to a member of staff.
Hopefully you trusted me in Kings Lynn, and I ask you trust me now, this will be a great an wonderful journey for the store (there is going to be some seriously cool stuff coming) and as ever we have all your best interests at heart.
Thank You
Interesting that we are 'collectors' now. Perhaps that new coined phrase is enabling for the price rises (we are producing 'collectibles' for 'collectors').
Also, did anyone else read this
The most important of these changes is that we will be bringing to a close our open gaming. This is great news and yet hear this?
The most important of these changes is that we will be bringing to a close our open gaming. This is great news everyone!
Id guess the collector terminology is another attempt to avoid the toy issues, and designs versus copyrights. In the same way they dropped the claim of making the 'Best toy soldiers in the world' claim from their website.
GAMES WORKSHOP, KINGS LYNN wrote:
Within the next few months you will notice a few changes to your local Games Workshop. The first of these will be arriving in the next couple of weeks.
The most important of these changes is that we will be bringing to a close our open gaming. This is great news as it inevitably means that you local store will be hosting fantastic new activites and events designed to give you a whole host of new hobby challenges and our trained staff will be on hand to support you and make sure that you get the most out of this awesome new programme.
I am sure that many of you will have already noticed a huge surge of GCN clubs we have recently been helping promote and start. We have done this to ensure that all your current hobby activites are continued to be supported in appropriate locations available to all.
Finally I wish to allay any fears or rumours some of you may have or have heard. Namely that Games Workshop is "getting rid of its regulars". Please do not be concerned as this is not the case. GW intends to support ALL of their collectors be they new or old, and the coming changes are entirely geared towards us being able to do this for now until forever - YOU ARE CATEGORICALLY NOT BEING TOLD TO LEAVE.
I know that some of you may have questions after reading this, please do not post them below - instead please talk to a member of staff.
Hopefully you trusted me in Kings Lynn, and I ask you trust me now, this will be a great an wonderful journey for the store (there is going to be some seriously cool stuff coming) and as ever we have all your best interests at heart.
Thank You
Interesting that we are 'collectors' now. Perhaps that new coined phrase is enabling for the price rises (we are producing 'collectibles' for 'collectors').
Also, did anyone else read this
The most important of these changes is that we will be bringing to a close our open gaming. This is great news and yet hear this?
The most important of these changes is that we will be bringing to a close our open gaming. This is great news everyone!
It is probably part of there strategy in the CHS case as they are trying to position there Minitures as pieces of art rather than playing pieces in a game to get around a number of legal issues.
Sean_OBrien wrote: Id guess the collector terminology is another attempt to avoid the toy issues, and designs versus copyrights. In the same way they dropped the claim of making the 'Best toy soldiers in the world' claim from their website.
Yup, so I'll insert the evil laughter of our beloved chairman of the board, just because it sounds so insidious
Or they did some market research and found out that having a load of regulars in the store all the time makes the place look tacky. They may be trying to "clean up" their high street image.
Yeah, an empty store when you're trying to sell a social hobby is a good idea.
Blue knights gonna blue knight.
I want nothing to do with the "social hobby". I want to game with my *friends*, not the sort of people who hang out in GW stores. You know what I mean those guys are offputting to normal people.
It's also cute that so few people follow politics/news that this is their first exposure to spin. Organisations do something bad and they put a positive spin on it...no need to wet your pants.
I just got back into Warhammer after a 20 year break. I don't even know if the friends I used to play with are still alive, let alone play Warhammer. My local store has an awesome group of regulars, and you can always get a game in on the weekends. If it weren't for those guys, I wouldn't be able to get any kind of games, ever.
Games workshop used to be awesome. Fun games which you didn't need to rush, able to drink and eat in and they provided paints and painting tables.
What now? Is games workshop going to eliminate painting instore as well, delegating that to be done at home? By the time they are finished, Warhammer will be a glorified placeholder game. Some places do not have clubs, or have clubs miles away, And then some gamers aren't able to use cars, or have parents drop them anywhere near a club.
Jervis has emphasized several times that the GW hobby is a collecting hobby, with gaming being a happy bonus. And, if one ignores the vocal minority (i.e. Everyone on DakkaDakka) he's right. The hobby is essentially acquisitive. If it weren't, we'd build our armies and then stop. But we don't: we keep buying new stuff that piles up in heaps far larger than we could possibly paint in outer limited hobby time.
Locally, I would totally support this move, not because it would be good for GW per se, but because it would force the GW store's population of lazy gamers to look beyond the tips of their noses at the larger community of games, miniatures, clubs and stores.
jonolikespie wrote: So no more gaming in stores other than events run by GW...
Anyone else feel like GW have been shooting themselves in the feet recently and this policy is them moving up to kneecaps?
Not really since people in large numbers are still buying the stuff now and most likely will in the future, barring some major economic disaster. As was said in a recent youtube video, even if everyone that currently buys GW products were to stop, it wouldn't take the company long to have another huge customer base.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
TEC wrote: Someone stole my gorram DakkaDakka username!!! I had to make a new account....
I'll just go ahead and post this big enough for people to not miss it:
My local GW Hobby Center Operator points out that this message is for A SINGLE UK STORE,
NOT something that applies to GW stores in general.
A good point, especially since the closing lines mention trusting an individual.
It's also cute that so few people follow politics/news that this is their first exposure to spin. Organisations do something bad and they put a positive spin on it...no need to wet your pants.
Lol you are a charmer there is a huge difference between organizations putting a positive spin on bad news with what GW just did... Its called respect towards people intelligence... or in this case the totally lack of it. But if you find it to be the norm on your little reality then yeah some people have what they deserve.
I dont care about what they say, but alas it was really poor form to the point of being idiotic and hilarious.
Da Boss wrote: It could be a strategy to deal with a particularly odious local group, you never know.
This is a fair point right here. I have a friend that owns a store where there was a group of the great unwashed that would be near the front on a table and saw a fair number of people come in, get a look at them and turn right around and leave, having come only a couple of feet inside the store. These guys would only buy something once in a while, but monopolize store space and tables.
The owner, a friend, finally got tired of losing business and told this group not to come into the store again until they had cleaned up their hygene and verbal act. They left and his place now gets more business.
Da Boss wrote: It could be a strategy to deal with a particularly odious local group, you never know.
This is a fair point right here. I have a friend that owns a store where there was a group of the great unwashed that would be near the front on a table and saw a fair number of people come in, get a look at them and turn right around and leave, having come only a couple of feet inside the store. These guys would only buy something once in a while, but monopolize store space and tables.
The owner, a friend, finally got tired of losing business and told this group not to come into the store again until they had cleaned up their hygene and verbal act. They left and his place now gets more business.
Exactly. These issues can be dealt with without dropping something like open gaming for everyone.
Da Boss wrote: It could be a strategy to deal with a particularly odious local group, you never know.
This is a fair point right here. I have a friend that owns a store where there was a group of the great unwashed that would be near the front on a table and saw a fair number of people come in, get a look at them and turn right around and leave, having come only a couple of feet inside the store. These guys would only buy something once in a while, but monopolize store space and tables.
The owner, a friend, finally got tired of losing business and told this group not to come into the store again until they had cleaned up their hygene and verbal act. They left and his place now gets more business.
Your friend obviously knows nothing about how to run a store!
Evidently what he should have done, as was pointed out by several people on this thread, was just ban ALL gaming from his store just to deal with this group, that is the right policy! /sarcasm
jonolikespie wrote: So no more gaming in stores other than events run by GW...
Anyone else feel like GW have been shooting themselves in the feet recently and this policy is them moving up to kneecaps?
Not really since people in large numbers are still buying the stuff now and most likely will in the future, barring some major economic disaster. As was said in a recent youtube video, even if everyone that currently buys GW products were to stop, it wouldn't take the company long to have another huge customer base.
Seriously? GW don't do advertising. Most people get into the game through other people they know, or because they see people playing in store and get interested. You can't push a social hobby without having a playerbase for it.
And yes, large numbers still play but sales are dropping and they are loosing their market share rapidly.
I thought this was going to be an early April Fools Joke. It's so ridiculous that a Miniature wargaming store would ban gaming.
I don't even know what to say anymore, besides that I'm happy there are no GW's in my state. The way they seem to be waging a literal war against a major portion of their consumer base (enthusiastic hobbyists/gamers above the age of 12) is mind boggingly stupid. I suspect that this is being done to prevent people with educations above elementary school congregating together and talking about "the hobby", which could prove dangerous for GW given their other policies.
Lord knows how the GW white knighters can defend this one.
Just reading some comments on the Independent Characters post about this, it's apparently done wonders for the events in the store like leagues, tournaments, etc...
It still sounds like a stupid idea... But we'll have to keep an eye on King's Lynn to see if it works or not.
Da Boss wrote: It could be a strategy to deal with a particularly odious local group, you never know.
This is a fair point right here. I have a friend that owns a store where there was a group of the great unwashed that would be near the front on a table and saw a fair number of people come in, get a look at them and turn right around and leave, having come only a couple of feet inside the store. These guys would only buy something once in a while, but monopolize store space and tables.
The owner, a friend, finally got tired of losing business and told this group not to come into the store again until they had cleaned up their hygene and verbal act. They left and his place now gets more business.
Your friend obviously knows nothing about how to run a store!
Evidently what he should have done, as was pointed out by several people on this thread, was just ban ALL gaming from his store just to deal with this group, that is the right policy! /sarcasm
He's been in business for 26 years and grown while other game stores that have allowed this have come and gone. Tell me again how he doesn't know how to run a store.
Or they did some market research and found out that having a load of regulars in the store all the time makes the place look tacky. They may be trying to "clean up" their high street image.
Yeah, an empty store when you're trying to sell a social hobby is a good idea.
Blue knights gonna blue knight.
I want nothing to do with the "social hobby". I want to game with my *friends*, not the sort of people who hang out in GW stores. You know what I mean those guys are offputting to normal people.
It's also cute that so few people follow politics/news that this is their first exposure to spin. Organisations do something bad and they put a positive spin on it...no need to wet your pants.
Good you have enough friends who play that you don't need a central point to meet new or even regular opponents.
I think this is another reflection of US vs. Europe environment.
From what I've read over the past 20 years, gaming clubs and the like are quasi-common in Europe.
In the US, they're less common so pick-up games with whoever might be at a local store are what GW is able to bring to the table.
If I have a recurring gaming group available (obviously at someone's house or a gaming club) you can darn sure bet GW's arms-race rules wouldn't be our choice for the common thread.
Not really pursuant to this thread, so much as inspired by the several comments concerning the different gaming cultures between the UK and US:
US historical gamers have, for decades, formed associations and clubs to arrange games and provide a common space for social gaming. Why does this seem to not be the case with speculative gamers? And what, exactly, is stopping speculative gamers from doing the same? I know you have churches, schools, community centres, town halls and other hirable private spaces, many of which might also offer a limited amount of storage space for an additional fee.
So surely it can't be any more complicated to start a club than it is on this side of the Pond?
Da Boss wrote: It could be a strategy to deal with a particularly odious local group, you never know.
This is a fair point right here. I have a friend that owns a store where there was a group of the great unwashed that would be near the front on a table and saw a fair number of people come in, get a look at them and turn right around and leave, having come only a couple of feet inside the store. These guys would only buy something once in a while, but monopolize store space and tables.
The owner, a friend, finally got tired of losing business and told this group not to come into the store again until they had cleaned up their hygene and verbal act. They left and his place now gets more business.
Your friend obviously knows nothing about how to run a store!
Evidently what he should have done, as was pointed out by several people on this thread, was just ban ALL gaming from his store just to deal with this group, that is the right policy! /sarcasm
He's been in business for 26 years and grown while other game stores that have allowed this have come and gone. Tell me again how he doesn't know how to run a store.
Did you really not detect the sarcasm that was so heavy my monitor collapsed?
precinctomega wrote: Not really pursuant to this thread, so much as inspired by the several comments concerning the different gaming cultures between the UK and US:
US historical gamers have, for decades, formed associations and clubs to arrange games and provide a common space for social gaming. Why does this seem to not be the case with speculative gamers? And what, exactly, is stopping speculative gamers from doing the same? I know you have churches, schools, community centres, town halls and other hirable private spaces, many of which might also offer a limited amount of storage space for an additional fee.
So surely it can't be any more complicated to start a club than it is on this side of the Pond?
R.
It isn't and that (or playing at home is the manner in which most people play miniature games). The numbers make it hard to imagine any other way. Even just looking at 40K which has around $50 million in sales in the US - you would need 50,000 people paying $1000 a year to get to that number (or some variation there of...though the 50,000 is likely the smallest the 'base' might be). Split evenly between the 2500 some odd game stores in the US - that would mean that each store has to have facilities for 20 people to game. The majority of stores have 1 or 2 tables tops - while even the biggest stores can barely squeeze in 20 tables for large tournaments (of which there are maybe a dozen in the whole country). While I guess you could say it is possible that they do game in stores predominantly - the numbers become improbable when you start actually looking at population splits and the like...and it doesn't even begin to address the smaller games like those produced by PP, Wyrd, Corvus Belli, Reaper, Catalyst/Iron Winds, FFG (with their X-Wing entry) or any of the hundreds of other games...not to mention historical gamers which have long since left the LGS (or rather the LGS had left them in most cases).
Da Boss wrote: It could be a strategy to deal with a particularly odious local group, you never know.
This is a fair point right here. I have a friend that owns a store where there was a group of the great unwashed that would be near the front on a table and saw a fair number of people come in, get a look at them and turn right around and leave, having come only a couple of feet inside the store. These guys would only buy something once in a while, but monopolize store space and tables.
The owner, a friend, finally got tired of losing business and told this group not to come into the store again until they had cleaned up their hygene and verbal act. They left and his place now gets more business.
Your friend obviously knows nothing about how to run a store!
Evidently what he should have done, as was pointed out by several people on this thread, was just ban ALL gaming from his store just to deal with this group, that is the right policy! /sarcasm
He's been in business for 26 years and grown while other game stores that have allowed this have come and gone. Tell me again how he doesn't know how to run a store.
Did you really not detect the sarcasm that was so heavy my monitor collapsed?
precinctomega wrote: Locally, I would totally support this move, not because it would be good for GW per se, but because it would force the GW store's population of lazy gamers to look beyond the tips of their noses at the larger community of games, miniatures, clubs and stores.
R.
Yeah, which is exactly OPPOSITE to GW's best interests. Which is why this should be lambasted as a really bad business move.
Edit: As for clubs for specualtive gamers; US nerds are solitary creatures.
I went into the local store up here in New York City (i'm visiting the area) and the redshirt there said that this is flat out not true. I know that GW has done some dumb things, but the manager there said that one store did this and that it was by no means a GW wide policy and that the rumor has spread out of control. I guess time will tell.
squall018 wrote: I went into the local store up here in New York City (i'm visiting the area) and the redshirt there said that this is flat out not true. I know that GW has done some dumb things, but the manager there said that one store did this and that it was by no means a GW wide policy and that the rumor has spread out of control. I guess time will tell.
One store did it this time - though if you look back through the past year...you will see a couple dozen or so "one stores" which have done this in the UK, US and Australia. Likely in other countries that GW has stores in, but they tend to gripe in their native language forums. While it is not an across the board action right now (as in all stores stopping) the trend does point towards all stores stopping gaming eventually (barring a few flagship stores which might be kept...).
Gaming clubs are not "common" in the UK at all. The only gaming club I know of within an hour's drive (and i don't even drive) is...Warhammer World!
Maybe it's an age thing, I mainly play at my friends' houses since most of them have moved out and have the space to game.
I find it hard to empathise with people over this. My experience of trying to game in GW (Derby) involves being told that I can't yet there always seem to be screaming 12 year olds getting in the way of me getting to whatever box I want to buy, and insisting on commenting/talking about it. Which I find incredibly irritating.
Maybe there are GWs out there that are full of polite, responsable adults gaming away and not getting in anyone's way or commenting loudly on things. But if there is, I haven't been to it
Or they did some market research and found out that having a load of regulars in the store all the time makes the place look tacky. They may be trying to "clean up" their high street image.
Yeah, an empty store when you're trying to sell a social hobby is a good idea.
Blue knights gonna blue knight.
I want nothing to do with the "social hobby". I want to game with my *friends*, not the sort of people who hang out in GW stores. You know what I mean those guys are offputting to normal people.
Thanks for missing the point so dramatically. Your blatant obtuseness is becoming something of a habit.
One of the GW HHHOBBY's biggest selling points to the mums and dads was the fact it was NOT something you do in isolation. In addition to getting little Timmy into reading more, developing maths skills (from making army lists) and their hand-eye coordination through painting, it is also something that GETS THEM OUT THE HOUSE and not sitting in front of their XBox. I've seen staff sell the game this way numerous times to skeptical parents and the fact that they can potentially see this in action right in front of them (preferably on a Sunday, where there will be kids of the same age playing the same game their child wants to get into).
THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU. No matter how much you try and make it out to be. Personally, I could not give a flying feth about my local GW's instore gaming policy as I too play at home, but this is about GW stores losing their entire shtick, one of their MAJOR hooks for parents, take the vast cash of the bank of mum and dad away and you'll kill the hobby as the new blood will dry up fairly quickly as they'll play at home (not every club allows children in, as they'll have to be CRB checked, which costs money) or dump the game when they find a new thing to get bored with.
wildger wrote: Someone must be in cloud 9 to think that FLGS are keen to encourage GW games to play in their stores,
??? The FLGS nearest me sells GW, Magic the Gathering, and board games. They have 3 tables set up for 40k. They're moving to a larger location to have more room for 40k.
wildger wrote: Someone must be in cloud 9 to think that FLGS are keen to encourage GW games to play in their stores,
??? The GW nearest me sells GW, Magic the Gathering, and board games. They have 3 tables set up for 40k. They're moving to a larger location to have more room for 40k.
That's not a GW store, that's an independent stockist [/pedant]
I had to do a double take. MTG being sold in GW? I know on occasion I've played MTG in my local GW; from a time when the manager simply did not give a gak. But, buying it...
Or they did some market research and found out that having a load of regulars in the store all the time makes the place look tacky. They may be trying to "clean up" their high street image.
Yeah, an empty store when you're trying to sell a social hobby is a good idea.
Blue knights gonna blue knight.
I want nothing to do with the "social hobby". I want to game with my *friends*, not the sort of people who hang out in GW stores. You know what I mean those guys are offputting to normal people.
Thanks for missing the point so dramatically. Your blatant obtuseness is becoming something of a habit.
One of the GW HHHOBBY's biggest selling points to the mums and dads was the fact it was NOT something you do in isolation. In addition to getting little Timmy into reading more, developing maths skills (from making army lists) and their hand-eye coordination through painting, it is also something that GETS THEM OUT THE HOUSE and not sitting in front of their XBox. I've seen staff sell the game this way numerous times to skeptical parents and the fact that they can potentially see this in action right in front of them (preferably on a Sunday, where there will be kids of the same age playing the same game their child wants to get into).
THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU. No matter how much you try and make it out to be. Personally, I could not give a flying feth about my local GW's instore gaming policy as I too play at home, but this is about GW stores losing their entire shtick, one of their MAJOR hooks for parents, take the vast cash of the bank of mum and dad away and you'll kill the hobby as the new blood will dry up fairly quickly as they'll play at home (not every club allows children in, as they'll have to be CRB checked, which costs money) or dump the game when they find a new thing to get bored with.
I remember a few trial games in store as a kid but I just found the staff/other clientelle offputting. 40k is *designed* to be between friends, where you can have a laugh and make up/ignore rules for the sake of fun. Even amongst competative gamers I'd wager that they got into 40k competatively after playing it for fun with friends.
precinctomega wrote: Not really pursuant to this thread, so much as inspired by the several comments concerning the different gaming cultures between the UK and US:
US historical gamers have, for decades, formed associations and clubs to arrange games and provide a common space for social gaming. Why does this seem to not be the case with speculative gamers? And what, exactly, is stopping speculative gamers from doing the same? I know you have churches, schools, community centres, town halls and other hirable private spaces, many of which might also offer a limited amount of storage space for an additional fee.
So surely it can't be any more complicated to start a club than it is on this side of the Pond?
R.
I would speculate that because GW offers a "one-stop shop" for wargames, younger gamers, whose principal entry point into the hobby is The HHHobby rather than clubs, have grown up to think that shops are where you play games.
I happen to be lucky enough to run the gaming events at my FLGS.
I have had good and bad luck through the years with our game room.
I have seen the "stinkers" and "dirties", Ive seen the nerds and geeks.
But what I have NEVER alllowed is OPEN GAMING.
There MUST be a host to have a succesful game area.
EVERY post here I have seen to one degree or another in our local community.
The idea that GW is booting the regulars in favor of the newbies is TOTALLY VIABLE.
Im not a GW White Knight, just a regular guy whos been around the block a few times.
"Neckbeards" as I like to call them, have been burned by GW's draconian marketing strategies for years and have developed a sour attitude towards GW in general. And they just CANT SEEM TO SHUT UP ABOUT IT!! Its almost masochistic. For someone to take the amount of abuse that the neckbeards have taken and still keep coming back for more is ridiculous!
The nasty things they say about the hobby they just love is stupid.
The negativity they create scares people away, and I think GW has taken the low road on this one.
Rather than clean up their image and ask others to do the same, they have cut off thier noses to spite thier faces.
BryllCream wrote: I remember a few trial games in store as a kid but I just found the staff/other clientelle offputting. 40k is *designed* to be between friends, where you can have a laugh and make up/ignore rules for the sake of fun. Even amongst competative gamers I'd wager that they got into 40k competatively after playing it for fun with friends.
It's all just anecdotal experience. Personally, I got in to GW largely because of the GW store. My friend played it too, but I mostly went to the store to play and while the staff can be annoying the first time you meet them because of their GW indoctrination, most of them are good guys (and a couple of gals). I've been going to the same GW store for about, ohhh, 15-16 years and over that time the staff has changed around a couple of times but I still know the staff and know the managers and yeah, occasionally I get a new staffer who doesn't know me come up and give the standard over enthusiastic GW spiel and stalk me, but for the most part once they know me we just have a chat, I sometimes go there to paint and sometimes go there to play a game (often against my friends and often against the staff themselves if they aren't overly busy).
I personally have no great desire to get in to the gaming clubs and I have no where to play at home, so me and my friends often play at the local GW. Different strokes for different folks. I tend to not go there at times and days when there's kids running around. I tried the club scene a couple of times and really didn't get in to it. I mostly played at the local GW and the local FLGS who had lots of tables set up (but has now closed down). That said, if my local GW was anything like the Philly GW I went to the other day (stinking of extremely bad body odor) then I probably wouldn't play at my local GW.
I know where Sean is coming from saying that the club scene is bigger than the store scene and most people don't play in stores, but at the end of the day I think it just varies from person to person and location to location even within a given country. For someone who games in clubs, shutting down games in stores is meaningless, for someone who likes to game in stores, it's a bit more annoying.
I happen to be lucky enough to run the gaming events at my FLGS.
I have had good and bad luck through the years with our game room.
I have seen the "stinkers" and "dirties", Ive seen the nerds and geeks.
But what I have NEVER alllowed is OPEN GAMING.
There MUST be a host to have a succesful game area.
EVERY post here I have seen to one degree or another in our local community.
The idea that GW is booting the regulars in favor of the newbies is TOTALLY VIABLE.
Im not a GW White Knight, just a regular guy whos been around the block a few times.
"Neckbeards" as I like to call them, have been burned by GW's draconian marketing strategies for years and have developed a sour attitude towards GW in general. And they just CANT SEEM TO SHUT UP ABOUT IT!! Its almost masochistic. For someone to take the amount of abuse that the neckbeards have taken and still keep coming back for more is ridiculous!
The nasty things they say about the hobby they just love is stupid.
The negativity they create scares people away, and I think GW has taken the low road on this one.
Rather than clean up their image and ask others to do the same, they have cut off thier noses to spite thier faces.
FYI, around my area, most the GW bitching and moaning occurs in FLGS's and clubs, most the people in the actual GW store don't act like that, so kicking out the people who are in GW only serves to create more unhappy customers who then tarnish your name in the FLGS's/clubs.
BryllCream wrote: Gaming clubs are not "common" in the UK at all. The only gaming club I know of within an hour's drive (and i don't even drive) is...Warhammer World!
Click "find a club". You mention GW Derby, there are two clubs in Derbyshire and several in the surrounding counties.
My experience is that for every 1 GCN club in an area, there are another 2 non- GCN aswell.
Seriously, Warwick? I don't even live in Nottinghamshire and can name three within an hour of you other than the 1St Company (which is the only independent club that uses WHW as a venue).
There are, to my knowledge, two that meet at the Eye of the Storm (still open, last I heard). Then there's KIA in Kirby.
GW are trying to have their cake and eat it. For years they attempted to justify premium prices on the fact that they had to maintain their network of 'hobby centers' that apparently where open to all and of beneift to the hobby as a whole..
Now their prices are as high as ever and the 'hobby centers' are nothing more than shops. I honestly can't think of a single reason to had over a penny of my cash to them. Other companies now do what GW used to do cheaper and better.
LuciusAR wrote: GW are trying to have their cake and eat it. For years they attempted to justify premium prices on the fact that they had to maintain their network of 'hobby centers' that apparently where open to all and of beneift to the hobby as a whole..
Now their prices are as high as ever and the 'hobby centers' are nothing more than shops. I honestly can't think of a single reason to had over a penny of my cash to them. Other companies now do what GW used to do cheaper and better.
This is a very good point, you used to "pay for the hobby support", and now that's gone....
precinctomega wrote: Jervis has emphasized several times that the GW hobby is a collecting hobby, with gaming being a happy bonus. And, if one ignores the vocal minority (i.e. Everyone on DakkaDakka) he's right. The hobby is essentially acquisitive. If it weren't, we'd build our armies and then stop. But we don't: we keep buying new stuff that piles up in heaps far larger than we could possibly paint in outer limited hobby time.
Locally, I would totally support this move, not because it would be good for GW per se, but because it would force the GW store's population of lazy gamers to look beyond the tips of their noses at the larger community of games, miniatures, clubs and stores.
R.
Jervis says exactly what he's told (and paid) to say.
I, for one, would not collect ten of the same miniature and paint them all in a near identical way just to have them, I do it so I can field them in the game. If I was a collector, then I would be buying any number of other manufacturers models before I considered the majority of GW's catalogue.
One thing I do agree with, albeit not quite in the manner you expressed it, is that this move can only be good for independent clubs and other systems, GW seem to want to keep people tied to them and buying from them exclusively, yet this move could very well lead to the total opposite effect.
I have 3 places within a 15-30 minute drive to game at, so this isnt a big deal to me.
Who wants to game at a GW, they are small, cramped, and have pushy staff and yelling kids.
Happygrunt wrote: So, just to make sure I am reading everything right, this is NOT a global trend and is only effecting one store at the moment?
It is a global trend, it has just not been happening simultaneously. This is being brought into effect in GWs across the oceans over the last couple of years, it is an ongoing thing, perhaps being brought in slowly to prevent too much of a clamor, but gaming, other than introduction games and 'promotional events', are being phased out of GW stores.
Happygrunt wrote: So, just to make sure I am reading everything right, this is NOT a global trend and is only effecting one store at the moment?
It is a global trend, it has just not been happening simultaneously. This is being brought into effect in GWs across the oceans over the last couple of years, it is an ongoing thing, perhaps being brought in slowly to prevent too much of a clamor, but gaming, other than introduction games and 'promotional events', are being phased out of GW stores.
Good thing I am off to college next year.
What I always found interesting is that the Seattle area always seems to be immune from these changes. Probably because here they are directly competing with warmachine, but I really don't know.
This is happening in the US currently but at a slower place. The manager at my local GW has been making changes to discourage people staying and gaming - the idea is to push people to game at home and in clubs. The idea is to mimic the UK situation.
He has seen quite the drop in people at his store.
Finally I wish to allay any fears or rumours some of you may have or have heard. Namely that Games Workshop is "getting rid of its regulars". Please do not be concerned as this is not the case. GW intends to support ALL of their collectors be they new or old, and the coming changes are entirely geared towards us being able to do this for now until forever - YOU ARE CATEGORICALLY NOT BEING TOLD TO LEAVE.
Not told to leave but being told not to play... LOL. Sales will die... I watch people play in tourneys or just pick up games and the average player drops about 30 to 50 bucks everytime. (Some none but some a lot more.) I got into the hobby by seeing a well painted space wolf army... Under this plan it would never have happened! Good job GW, I don't need to see their pro-painted demo armies encouraging anyone to play or - God forbid - some slopped together, half-painted POS.
So between unfriendly atmosphere, no discounts, guaranteed annual price hikes and codex nerfing they seem to be doing their darnest to make the hobby die. Thankfully the nearest GW-owned shop is more than 150 miles away so it will not dampen our area.
I happen to be lucky enough to run the gaming events at my FLGS.
I have had good and bad luck through the years with our game room.
I have seen the "stinkers" and "dirties", Ive seen the nerds and geeks.
But what I have NEVER alllowed is OPEN GAMING.
There MUST be a host to have a succesful game area.
EVERY post here I have seen to one degree or another in our local community.
The idea that GW is booting the regulars in favor of the newbies is TOTALLY VIABLE.
Im not a GW White Knight, just a regular guy whos been around the block a few times.
"Neckbeards" as I like to call them, have been burned by GW's draconian marketing strategies for years and have developed a sour attitude towards GW in general. And they just CANT SEEM TO SHUT UP ABOUT IT!! Its almost masochistic. For someone to take the amount of abuse that the neckbeards have taken and still keep coming back for more is ridiculous!
The nasty things they say about the hobby they just love is stupid.
The negativity they create scares people away, and I think GW has taken the low road on this one.
Rather than clean up their image and ask others to do the same, they have cut off thier noses to spite thier faces.
Maybe on your block, but I have seen it first hand in three or four different states to the contrary. GW earned the negativity to thier own credit. No one did that tot hem but themselves. To see a room full of tables, around eight to ten on a good day go to one to two? Neckbeards did that? Neckbeards made the policies?
Methinks you protest too much- to take a phrase from our mates across the pond.
They arn't just booting regulars, chief. They are shutting down gaming in store period. And for those thinking it is just one store, your full of beans. What goes for one goes for all. These stores are corperate stores, such as the same as a Mickey mouse store, or Mickey D's.
Open gaming was part in parcel of the store. YOU saying that on one hand you organized play, and in the next breath claim you had no open gaming is a dualidy that might have gone in your neck of the beard, but not in other areas.
How do you think the sales continued? If you think some chone is going to "Make sales" in one of the indoctrination centers, you are mistaken. One foot in, two feet gone.
I happen to be lucky enough to run the gaming events at my FLGS.
I have had good and bad luck through the years with our game room.
I have seen the "stinkers" and "dirties", Ive seen the nerds and geeks.
But what I have NEVER alllowed is OPEN GAMING.
There MUST be a host to have a succesful game area.
EVERY post here I have seen to one degree or another in our local community.
The idea that GW is booting the regulars in favor of the newbies is TOTALLY VIABLE.
Im not a GW White Knight, just a regular guy whos been around the block a few times.
"Neckbeards" as I like to call them, have been burned by GW's draconian marketing strategies for years and have developed a sour attitude towards GW in general. And they just CANT SEEM TO SHUT UP ABOUT IT!! Its almost masochistic. For someone to take the amount of abuse that the neckbeards have taken and still keep coming back for more is ridiculous!
The nasty things they say about the hobby they just love is stupid.
The negativity they create scares people away, and I think GW has taken the low road on this one.
Rather than clean up their image and ask others to do the same, they have cut off thier noses to spite thier faces.
Wait at minute! A at FLGS there is no open gaming allowed?
Since it's a store it has opening hours where there isn't events running and you wouldn't allow two friends to play each other?
You don't have to have a dedicated host to gaming area to let the users have a good time
I happen to be lucky enough to run the gaming events at my FLGS.
I have had good and bad luck through the years with our game room.
I have seen the "stinkers" and "dirties", Ive seen the nerds and geeks.
But what I have NEVER alllowed is OPEN GAMING.
There MUST be a host to have a succesful game area.
EVERY post here I have seen to one degree or another in our local community.
The idea that GW is booting the regulars in favor of the newbies is TOTALLY VIABLE.
Im not a GW White Knight, just a regular guy whos been around the block a few times.
"Neckbeards" as I like to call them, have been burned by GW's draconian marketing strategies for years and have developed a sour attitude towards GW in general. And they just CANT SEEM TO SHUT UP ABOUT IT!! Its almost masochistic. For someone to take the amount of abuse that the neckbeards have taken and still keep coming back for more is ridiculous!
The nasty things they say about the hobby they just love is stupid.
The negativity they create scares people away, and I think GW has taken the low road on this one.
Rather than clean up their image and ask others to do the same, they have cut off thier noses to spite thier faces.
Wait at minute! A at FLGS there is no open gaming allowed?
Since it's a store it has opening hours where there isn't events running and you wouldn't allow two friends to play each other?
You don't have to have a dedicated host to gaming area to let the users have a good time
Yeah, that's a bit silly IMO. At my FLGS we would always ask the shop owners if we could play and then once we were playing we didn't need a "host". We ask first partly out of respect and partly because gaming clubs used the stores and we didn't want to be on a table that a club might want to use later in the evening.
Even when a club isn't running you don't need a games host, say if two friends don't work one weekday and decide to head to the LGS for a game, if there isn't a dedicated employee watching them play they can't?
Never say this, it's like getting a neon sign for the white armour.
I'm rather indifferent to GW removing gaming from the stores. I mean you have the negatives I suppose, but it also means you don't have the token ten year old, you hear about so often,grabbing your models and playing space men with them. Plus then you're opened up to non-GW alternative parts to make your army look nicer if you wanted.
I honestly don't know what's funnier - the fact the decided the best way for people to see the HHHobby demonstrated is to go play somewhere else, or the fact that; as expected, the usual suspects found this totally reasonable. Who could have seen that coming, right?
I reiterate - if Tom Kirby held a press conference in which all he did was punch a baby as hard as he could, there'd be a post on Dakka within an hour saying that baby totally had it coming.
Anyway, it's good to see this guy found work again
So when GW make it difficult to use their products and force you into gaming clubs dont they realize those gaming clubs have their competition?
Lets assume a total noob gets pushed out of his GW store and finds a club, only to see them playing Warmachine or MtG or whatever, you just basically handed them every reason to look at all your companies flaws by comparison. Especially those companies that actually respect (or at least feel like they respect) their customers.
Point of information: GW King's Lynn is ending open gaming, not all gaming. They will still have organized having activities: tournaments, leagues, campaigns, narrative games and suchlike.
precinctomega wrote: Point of information: GW King's Lynn is ending open gaming, not all gaming. They will still have organized having activities: tournaments, leagues, campaigns, narrative games and suchlike.
R.
The problem is that in all likelihood means a few hours a week as a 'vets night' then the rest of it is beginners stuff, intro games, escalation leagues (for people getting into a new system) and the occasional big battle where everyone is only allowed to bring 2 units.
Well as a result of my local GWs stopping open gaming two new gaming clubs have sprung up. The funny thing is one of these now has a GW trade account selling to members at 20% off rrp so as a consequence those stores have already lost those customers. More are sure to follow.
precinctomega wrote: Point of information: GW King's Lynn is ending open gaming, not all gaming. They will still have organized having activities: tournaments, leagues, campaigns, narrative games and suchlike.
R.
So, do please come along when we're promoting something new and need photos for the facebook page or to send to our regional manager, do please engage in our gaming when we're pushing something specific hard and need to get the little kiddies drifting past to want to come in an see what all the fuss is about.
But otherwise, stay the feth out, you smelly, antisocial bastards, because we're scared shitless you are going to say something that goes against our mantra of absolute devotion to the corporate motherland and we actually perceive any of you who've been gaming more than a year to be a hostile entity as you've been exposed to the internet and 'dangerous ideas'.
This is all out of proportion - this is specific to only one gaming store, not all of them. I've read page 1 and can't be bothered reading the other 6.
stubacca wrote: This is all out of proportion - this is specific to only one gaming store, not all of them. I've read page 1 and can't be bothered reading the other 6.
The post refers to one gaming store but this IS occurring in GWs across several countries. The move to small one man stores and the removal of open gaming in existing, larger stores is happening, it's just not happening in one fell swoop, it's being rolled out gradually over months.
There have been posts like this popping up from UK, US and Oz.
stubacca wrote: This is all out of proportion - this is specific to only one gaming store, not all of them. I've read page 1 and can't be bothered reading the other 6.
The post refers to one gaming store but this IS occurring in GWs across several countries. The move to small one man stores and the removal of open gaming in existing, larger stores is happening, it's just not happening in one fell swoop, it's being rolled out gradually over months.
There have been posts like this popping up from UK, US and Oz.
Really?? Ah well, it doesn't overly affect me. It just seems like it's kids/annoying teenagers playing in them anyway, from the local GW stores I've been in
I know that this has been touched on before in this thread, but exactly how does this:
The most important of these changes is that we will be bringing to a close our open gaming.
somehow equate to this:
This is great news
Exactly how is it supposed to be better to drive all the way to a local GW (some of us have a really long drive) than just to buy from their Online Store? Pretty soon, both places will be offering exactly the same level of Employee-Consumer interactions (ie, swipe credit/debit card and leave)!!
Not really even a hard look - first page of Google results. Most of those threads also mention other stores that are cutting off open gaming as well (or have cut hours to the point where they only people who could reasonably game are soccer moms and kindergarten students on half days).
Yeah but for some people that is their only option.
Personally what I like about GW stores is the ability to go there at any point and time and be able to get a game in. Toronto has a bunker-ish GW with 6-8 gaming tables, however I have a feeling that they are on the chopping block shortly, to make matters worse their basement is full of the glass cabients and relics from the old GW Canada HQ, if it goes up, I guarantee most of the things there will end up in a landfill.
There's no money to be made with kids just taking up space when you could have demo tables, or stock, anything that'll help you make money in place of annoying, swearing, messy, smelly kids. So it's great news for the GW.
And that's the best form of interaction! Who wants some mouth breather pestering you about what army you play, only to try and sell you the super shiny new thing, that you don't actually need?
It probably means the store will stay around for longer. Business rates are ridiculous for some towns. Like in my home town, some stores in The Mall are paying £100,000 a year in rates, and that's some of the cheapest! If you're staying open till 8pm but after 5pm you're paying out more in electricity and wages than you're making I can totally understand GW got cutting back, it's for the good of the long term life of the store. Sure, it'll affect some people but if it means people are in jobs for longer, that's all good
When all there is to a brick and mortar store is shelves of product and a cashier to ring you out, how is that better than the Internet? The shipping from GW online is less than 1/4 of the gas I would spend getting to the nearest GW storefront.
stubacca wrote: There's no money to be made with kids just taking up space when you could have demo tables, or stock, anything that'll help you make money in place of annoying, swearing, messy, smelly kids. So it's great news for the GW.
And that's the best form of interaction! Who wants some mouth breather pestering you about what army you play, only to try and sell you the super shiny new thing, that you don't actually need?
It probably means the store will stay around for longer. Business rates are ridiculous for some towns. Like in my home town, some stores in The Mall are paying £100,000 a year in rates, and that's some of the cheapest! If you're staying open till 8pm but after 5pm you're paying out more in electricity and wages than you're making I can totally understand GW got cutting back, it's for the good of the long term life of the store. Sure, it'll affect some people but if it means people are in jobs for longer, that's all good
There's no money to be made if no one goes to your store because everyone thinks you're a bunch of raging dickbags either.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AegisGrimm wrote: When all there is to a brick and mortar store is shelves of product and a cashier to ring you out, how is that better than the Internet? The shipping from GW online is less than 1/4 of the gas I would spend getting to the nearest GW storefront.
Bingo, you pay where you play, and if Im not able to use your product in your store why in hell would I support your store?
stubacca wrote: There's no money to be made with kids just taking up space when you could have demo tables, or stock, anything that'll help you make money in place of annoying, swearing, messy, smelly kids. So it's great news for the GW.
And that's the best form of interaction! Who wants some mouth breather pestering you about what army you play, only to try and sell you the super shiny new thing, that you don't actually need?
It probably means the store will stay around for longer. Business rates are ridiculous for some towns. Like in my home town, some stores in The Mall are paying £100,000 a year in rates, and that's some of the cheapest! If you're staying open till 8pm but after 5pm you're paying out more in electricity and wages than you're making I can totally understand GW got cutting back, it's for the good of the long term life of the store. Sure, it'll affect some people but if it means people are in jobs for longer, that's all good
There's no money to be made if no one goes to your store because everyone thinks you're a bunch of raging dickbags either.
So because I like to play walk in games at the local GW, I am a "raging dickbag"?
Stubacca said that there is no money to be made with kids and neck beards clogging up your store just playing games. My response was that if you kick all them out they are likely not to support you and tell other people not to support you because the store (and company), not the people in it, are indeed, raging dickbags.
Plus I already said that I game at a local GW, I buy paint there primarily, and the occasional kit to keep the king of england out of my face. If they get turned into a one man store with no play space, then I have no reason what so ever to game there, or support them.
stubacca wrote: There's no money to be made with kids just taking up space when you could have demo tables, or stock, anything that'll help you make money in place of annoying, swearing, messy, smelly kids. So it's great news for the GW.
And that's the best form of interaction! Who wants some mouth breather pestering you about what army you play, only to try and sell you the super shiny new thing, that you don't actually need?
It probably means the store will stay around for longer. Business rates are ridiculous for some towns. Like in my home town, some stores in The Mall are paying £100,000 a year in rates, and that's some of the cheapest! If you're staying open till 8pm but after 5pm you're paying out more in electricity and wages than you're making I can totally understand GW got cutting back, it's for the good of the long term life of the store. Sure, it'll affect some people but if it means people are in jobs for longer, that's all good
There's no money to be made if no one goes to your store because everyone thinks you're a bunch of raging dickbags either.
So because I like to play walk in games at the local GW, I am a "raging dickbag"?
Pretty sure GW would be the DB...not people at the stores.
In context - the quoted text says good riddance to in store gamers because...well he finds them beneath him. In response to a store that has no gaming, Ravenous says why go there at all - especially if everyone thinks they are a bunch of DB. Since there is no gaming...the reference would be to the proprietor of the store as opposed to the patrons.
stubacca wrote: There's no money to be made with kids just taking up space when you could have demo tables, or stock, anything that'll help you make money in place of annoying, swearing, messy, smelly kids. So it's great news for the GW.
And that's the best form of interaction! Who wants some mouth breather pestering you about what army you play, only to try and sell you the super shiny new thing, that you don't actually need?
It probably means the store will stay around for longer. Business rates are ridiculous for some towns. Like in my home town, some stores in The Mall are paying £100,000 a year in rates, and that's some of the cheapest! If you're staying open till 8pm but after 5pm you're paying out more in electricity and wages than you're making I can totally understand GW got cutting back, it's for the good of the long term life of the store. Sure, it'll affect some people but if it means people are in jobs for longer, that's all good
There's no money to be made if no one goes to your store because everyone thinks you're a bunch of raging dickbags either.
So because I like to play walk in games at the local GW, I am a "raging dickbag"?
Yeh, he didn't mean customers, I'm guessing. It was more aimed at GW being 'raging dickbags'
Also I wouldn't say I consider myself above them, the kids in the Preston/Manchester store, even the ones playing Magic at my local FLGS are a bunch of ill-mannered ass hats
Its pretty much all word of mouth, if you arent going to charge full price, and offer nothing then what incentive is there?
Like I said, being able to get a game anytime is the big reason I go to GW stores, take that away and I have to schedule games at an FLGs once a week. I have a table and terrian in my man cave, but playing my 4 buddies over and over is boring as hell.
This is almost certainly going to be interpreted the wrong way, but I don't give a frack.
At what point in time did all these GW white knights in this forum turn into such elitist jerks?
Almost all the people defending this move seem to be saying that the people that actually play at a GW store are nothing but malodorous neckbeards and screaming teenagers and are implying that they somehow don't deserve to enjoy the same game as they do... I have honestly never seen such attitude towards fellow gamers in any other miniature game! Just because they don't have an alternative gaming space like a club or a table at their house then they are somehow beneath you and worthy of insults? Are you serious?
PhantomViper wrote: This is almost certainly going to be interpreted the wrong way, but I don't give a frack.
At what point in time did all these GW white knights in this forum turn into such elitist jerks?
Almost all the people defending this move seem to be saying that the people that actually play at a GW store are nothing but malodorous neckbeards and screaming teenagers and are implying that they somehow don't deserve to enjoy the same game as they do... I have honestly never seen such attitude towards fellow gamers in any other miniature game! Just because they don't have an alternative gaming space like a club or a table at their house then they are somehow beneath you and worthy of insults? Are you serious?
PhantomViper wrote: This is almost certainly going to be interpreted the wrong way, but I don't give a frack.
At what point in time did all these GW white knights in this forum turn into such elitist jerks?
Almost all the people defending this move seem to be saying that the people that actually play at a GW store are nothing but malodorous neckbeards and screaming teenagers and are implying that they somehow don't deserve to enjoy the same game as they do... I have honestly never seen such attitude towards fellow gamers in any other miniature game! Just because they don't have an alternative gaming space like a club or a table at their house then they are somehow beneath you and worthy of insults? Are you serious?
Yep.
On a serious note though, I'm not saying every store is like that, just the local ones to me. Also I've had enough experience in retail (managing a GW stockist, as well as chief tech in a bowling alley) to have a severe dislike of all customers haha
Also I wouldn't say I consider myself above them, the kids in the Preston/Manchester store, even the ones playing Magic at my local FLGS are a bunch of ill-mannered ass hats
If you don't consider yourself to be above an ill-mannered ass hat - you might want to consider seeing a therapist.
Ugavine wrote: I welcome GW stores not having open gaming.
It's a shop, not a club.
Personally I can't stand it when you can get to shelves due to a crowd of kids who are not buying anything.
I avoid my FLGS on tournament days for the same reason.
That's pretty poorly designed for a FLGS then. All the ones I've been to have all products up front, and then a larger open room at the back for gaming.
Seriously guys this has happened to my two nearest local GWs, and considering i am too young to drive, and the only games i could get were around 600-750pts at my school's gaming club, and everyone there has fallen into 'GW rules the world' trap and have no signs of ever getting out, I literally couldn't get a decent game anywhere. But luckily for me a FLGS opened up, literally a 30s walk from my closet GW.
Gyrtop wrote: That's pretty poorly designed for a FLGS then. All the ones I've been to have all products up front, and then a larger open room at the back for gaming.
Most of the ones I've been to (in the US, Canada, Germany and France) have always had tables somewhat near the product shelves because seeing people pushing around their fancy space men is what seems to get them to take the plunge themselves.
My local GW is running a bunch of events and such, according to their Facebook page but I honestly have no idea if they do or ever did allow open gaming. It has, in all honesty, never really occured to me that people would play pick up games in a GW, in my mind that's what FLGSs and gaming clubs have always been for. I do know they do scheduled games, I've played a few there whenever the manager has an anglophone come in who doesn't speak French but I don't know if people just show up unannounced to play.
I have actually been on the receiving end of this managers policies, I used to be a regular in the store where she is the manager before she took over and I was spending on average £30 ish a week (usually buying something every other week) with plenty of friendly games against other regulars and newbie alike.
Since she has taken over I have been made to feel unwelcome (through this no open gaming and other things) and therefore no longer go in unless I need paint or something urgently.
It really sucks as it limits my frequency of gaming. The only upside is that now I save circa 20% on all my purchases from online shops!!
Honestly, that just seems like a recipe for shrink. Pretty much every store in town I've been to has segregated gaming and retail space, with a fairly small choke point that people have to pass through (usually right in front of the register) to get from one to the other.
Gyrtop wrote: That's pretty poorly designed for a FLGS then. All the ones I've been to have all products up front, and then a larger open room at the back for gaming.
Most of the ones I've been to (in the US, Canada, Germany and France) have always had tables somewhat near the product shelves because seeing people pushing around their fancy space men is what seems to get them to take the plunge themselves.
My local GW is running a bunch of events and such, according to their Facebook page but I honestly have no idea if they do or ever did allow open gaming. It has, in all honesty, never really occured to me that people would play pick up games in a GW, in my mind that's what FLGSs and gaming clubs have always been for. I do know they do scheduled games, I've played a few there whenever the manager has an anglophone come in who doesn't speak French but I don't know if people just show up unannounced to play.
Open games = scheduled games. An open game is a game that isn't a demo or that isn't part of an organized store even that means scheduled games are out as well.
progreen10 wrote: They practically just focus on getting new people into the hobby, taking all their money, then providing them with no support afterwards. My GW has 4 tables. 3 of them are for beginners. The last table has to be booked in advance and even when you do get a game there, they rush you, because apparently they don't want you "lingering". They always seem to have 'some sort of event' a short time after you book a table, and you "HAVE to be done by a certain time". Funnily enough, there is very rarely an event on, and even when there is, barely anyone turns up for it.
Feeling like a Veteran returning from war and no one wants a bar of you?
your not alone, there are many veterans of this hoby who believe/think/know their is little to no support for them. but as stated above or below or somewhere in this thread, that it isn't a new practise, [color=darkred]GW seems to have given up it's addictions and is going cold turkey at the same time withdrawing into itself in a buisiness POV, boxing it self in the corner. [/color]
wheras before they were on top and cornering the market (niche wargame) now they seem to be glutted (glutton- best i can offer) itself and is now sated. for the moment atleast. or maybe they Really are restructuring their playsystem.
Many new guys complain of that player who is obese, smells, has bad social attitude, and hygeine with Clique groups who exclude newer players. maybe it is a direct way to curb that kind of mannerism within the confines of the establishment. just some thoughts and support to let you know you are not alone.
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Dalteth wrote: I have actually been on the receiving end of this managers policies, I used to be a regular in the store where she is the manager before she took over and I was spending on average £30 ish a week (usually buying something every other week) with plenty of friendly games against other regulars and newbie alike.
Since she has taken over I have been made to feel unwelcome (through this no open gaming and other things) and therefore no longer go in unless I need paint or something urgently.
It really sucks as it limits my frequency of gaming. The only upside is that now I save circa 20% on all my purchases from online shops!!
While this does indeed suck, give a moment of thought to those not lucky or privileged to have a GW store nearby or a stockist which is a FLGS. the closest I have is 2 options for gaming 1. is my brother when he isn't drunk or playing league of legends or 2. go the FLGS which doesn't support 40k, one of the games i am a FAN/Fanatic of. i get roughly maybe 3-4 games a year, and i'd like it to change but as the years roll by the less interested i become. because it seems everyone in my area Lismore NSW AU seem not interested in 40k and who can blame them with some of the new policies being introduced to "not" support the consumer who supports their company indirectly/directly. but enough of my "rant" about my completel lack of gaming (beside in cairns, nth qld au, but since i am a stale veteran who knows too much i am not welcome)
I must admit, i am surprised that this affected as many as it has in the UK, I dont know anyone that plays in a GW anymore, I guess its the younger crowd ?
Some of the games workshop stores I have been in dont really have space to play games in anyway !
What caused that at the one man stores were regulars taking advantage of the laxity of those managers. It is a place of miniature business first and foremost. A cited reference was of a manager whom allowed a regular to bring in his own personal recliner (and leave it there) for when he was at said store. REALLY!? It's a place of business not a FLGS or a FLGC. If you need one of those, start one.
Rayvon wrote: I must admit, i am surprised that this affected as many as it has in the UK, I dont know anyone that plays in a GW anymore, I guess its the younger crowd ?
Some of the games workshop stores I have been in dont really have space to play games in anyway !
The Preston store manages to have a table, god knows how because it's so small, but it does mean squeezing past people to get to the stock by them :(
MetalOxide wrote: What I don't get is why GW had to stop veterans nights on Thursday evenings.
Money I'd guess. Those extra 2 hours the store was open, plus eletricity, heating etc. was probably adding up and they needed something more to cut to make their profits seem better for the shareholders.
MetalOxide wrote: What I don't get is why GW had to stop veterans nights on Thursday evenings.
Money I'd guess. Those extra 2 hours the store was open, plus eletricity, heating etc. was probably adding up and they needed something more to cut to make their profits seem better for the shareholders.
That'd be my guess.
It's a shame because there was a strong local community of veterans in my area who actually spent quite a lot during those gaming nights. The cancellation of the gaming night has kinda destroyed my enthusiasm for playing 40k.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Ok, So Gw doesnt want veterans coming in and insulting the company, how hard is that to understand, you cant go into a company and badmouth it.
That instantly assumes every vet that plays is bad-mouthing it, and it's all free speech.
Companies should be able to adapt to criticism not pugging their fingers in their ears.
If i go into Mcdonalds and say how much i think their food sucks, am I to presume that is my right? No. The majority of veterans badmouth GW, so they are playing it safe.
hotsauceman1 wrote: If i go into Mcdonalds and say how much i think their food sucks, am I to presume that is my right? No. The majority of veterans badmouth GW, so they are playing it safe.
I take it you don't get out much.
I work in a supermarket and hear people criticizing us all the time whilst shopping there. Criticism=/="haterz". It is nothing new and GW are not subject to any special treatment, if they're going to act like a certain despotic, overly secretive Asian country then they will be treated as such and no white knights are going to stop me from doing so.
hotsauceman1 wrote: If i go into Mcdonalds and say how much i think their food sucks, am I to presume that is my right? No. The majority of veterans badmouth GW, so they are playing it safe.
I'm amazed that any veterans actually play in GW stores anymore, its not as if its a pleasant gaming environment and its very restrictive in what you can do. A club will almost always be better, especially one with an 18+ membership policy.
This is actually a good thing as it can only strengthen gaming clubs and like most things GW does these days it will also weaken GW. I don't think I have ever been to a club that only plays GW games, certainly not recently.
MetalOxide wrote: What I don't get is why GW had to stop veterans nights on Thursday evenings.
Money I'd guess. Those extra 2 hours the store was open, plus eletricity, heating etc. was probably adding up and they needed something more to cut to make their profits seem better for the shareholders.
That'd be my guess.
It's a shame because there was a strong local community of veterans in my area who actually spent quite a lot during those gaming nights. The cancellation of the gaming night has kinda destroyed my enthusiasm for playing 40k.
I think the current line of thinking is that the vets will buy the stuff anyway, so there's no point wasting money in running a games night for them.
Compel wrote: I'm wondering what will happen to stores like GW Glasgow, where there is near enough a proper gaming room at the back.
- Although, I did hear stories of some stores putting in false walls to hide the old gaming zones?
You saying that is some what of a coincidence, my local GW has had the extra space they had walled off. Cutting down on the space available in store. Was given the "blind spot" to be fair it kinda was, and "I think some one somewhere had some extra wood and wanted to build a wall". So yeah, reading some of this thread and what you said connects. Not to much of a worry for me, don't game at it anyways but sucks for those who do.
Compel wrote: I'm wondering what will happen to stores like GW Glasgow, where there is near enough a proper gaming room at the back.
- Although, I did hear stories of some stores putting in false walls to hide the old gaming zones?
Glasgow's a pretty big store with about 3 staff at a time and a separate gaming area at the back so I think it'll be safe for now, as the reasoning seems to be about overworked staff and lack of space. I have to admit though that I've never seen the 3 demo tables in use, or more than 1 or 2 browsers at a time in there, but I've rarely seen any of the 6 gaming tables at the back empty.
hotsauceman1 wrote: If i go into Mcdonalds and say how much i think their food sucks, am I to presume that is my right? No. The majority of veterans badmouth GW, so they are playing it safe.
Ever wonder why? Here you have the perfect recipe for disaster, GW exiles veterans, GW does not advertise, Veteran badmouth GW, GW explicitly and repeatedly stated they depend on customer word for advertising. Gee i wonder how could this ever go wrong...
hotsauceman1 wrote: If i go into Mcdonalds and say how much i think their food sucks, am I to presume that is my right? No. The majority of veterans badmouth GW, so they are playing it safe.
As long as you were buying the food and not making a scene, they wouldn't really do much to you no. Certainly wouldn't try to ban people who they overhear doing it.
But McDonalds is an actual efficiently led corporation whereas GW's execs are stubborn children bent on minimizing their own profits.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Ok, So Gw doesnt want veterans coming in and insulting the company, how hard is that to understand, you cant go into a company and badmouth it.
I'm struggling to think of a single time I've heard GW vets badmouthing GW in a GW store. On the internet, yes, in an FLGS, yes, never in an actual GW store.
But I'm sure if GW kick out the vets, those vets will be more than happy to start badmouthing GW in other locations.
I feel GW like to assume they live in a bubble when it suits them and not when it doesn't suit them, it's not overly encouraging as a customer.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Ok, So Gw doesnt want veterans coming in and insulting the company, how hard is that to understand, you cant go into a company and badmouth it.
I'm struggling to think of a single time I've heard GW vets badmouthing GW in a GW store. On the internet, yes, in an FLGS, yes, never in an actual GW store.
Yup, before I stopped going to my local with any regularity I'd lost count of the amount of times I had to bite my tongue just to save face. You'd have to be a bit dim to insult the dictatorship within its borders.
Which is also another theory I have as to why they removed their company FB page. A lot of the regulars may be a bit apprehensive to criticise GW on the stores FB pages if they still wish to patronize said store.
Though that sounds a little too competent for GW...
hotsauceman1 wrote: Ok, So Gw doesnt want veterans coming in and insulting the company, how hard is that to understand, you cant go into a company and badmouth it.
Yeah, no, I've never seen this happen, either in a GW, or an independent store. Closest I've seen are people who don't play GW games generally saying "Eh, I don't really like Warhammer" or people who don't like a particular rule in a new edition or codex, or lamenting that their codex/army book is 10+ years old. Nothing approaching how people act on the internet.
Or, to put it another way, people in real life, even socially inept wargaming nerds, tend to be far more well-behaved than they are on the internet.
fullheadofhair wrote: This is happening in the US currently but at a slower place. The manager at my local GW has been making changes to discourage people staying and gaming - the idea is to push people to game at home and in clubs. The idea is to mimic the UK situation.
He has seen quite the drop in people at his store.
This will probably be policy in the US soon.
*The problem of course is that, if they go to FLGS, they will suddenly the larger universe of gaming.
*I'm not understanding - are they sayign they will still have leagues etc., just not open gaming? Thats not a big deal. But if its, no gaming at all, isn't that a little weird? How does one sell games to a kid when tere aren't any kids?
I was thinking how would a single man store control more than a very limited group of people in their stores?
For example a new customer pops in and a couple people are playing demos and others browsing new stuff, some maybe painting and then the phone call starts to ring... I feel sorry for the fella.
Kicking vets is the last thing you should do in one man stores because you know they can actually be those store managers unpaid extra eyes and hands etc.
I believe its in GW best interest to close most of these stores because what is the point if they strip down the community, limit gaming to minimums etc... They cannot even have tournaments in those small stores... Save those pennies and invest in Publicity and roadshows and participate in third party events for better bang for your buck I would say.
My store did exactly same thing, in October last year. Has pretty much killed my hobby as the only time I had free for hobby was on store run vets nights. I still have that time, just nowhere to game it
Gaming in a GW was the most unpleasant thing I have ever experienced and that was when the stores were larger. I can't imagine a game in the tiny one man stores so I don't see how this is even an issue.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Ok, So Gw doesnt want veterans coming in and insulting the company, how hard is that to understand, you cant go into a company and badmouth it.
I'm struggling to think of a single time I've heard GW vets badmouthing GW in a GW store. On the internet, yes, in an FLGS, yes, never in an actual GW store.
Yup, before I stopped going to my local with any regularity I'd lost count of the amount of times I had to bite my tongue just to save face. You'd have to be a bit dim to insult the dictatorship within its borders.
Which is also another theory I have as to why they removed their company FB page. A lot of the regulars may be a bit apprehensive to criticise GW on the stores FB pages if they still wish to patronize said store.
Though that sounds a little too competent for GW...
Same reason they disable comments on their Youtube channel, or their own forums years ago. Most people, when faced with a majority of negative feedback usually say "am I doing something wrong?" and attempt to address it, GW just went the opposite way and thought "Why are they enjoying our products wrong? Raise the prices!"
A quality wargaming club is going to be into more than just GW products, especially one hosted by a proper FLGS. My two closest stores have active players in 40K, WarmaHordes, and Flames of War. One of them is also doing pretty well with Saga, too.
To mirror other comments in the thread, I can't imagine wanting to willingly play at a GW store unless you simply have no other options.
Spaz431 wrote: What caused that at the one man stores were regulars taking advantage of the laxity of those managers. It is a place of miniature business first and foremost. A cited reference was of a manager whom allowed a regular to bring in his own personal recliner (and leave it there) for when he was at said store. REALLY!? It's a place of business not a FLGS or a FLGC. If you need one of those, start one.
That sounds like a manager issue there. NOT to shut down gaming by using this as a lame excuse in a GAME store to run off gaming.
This particular Buisiness" runs on support of a gaming community.
Lose that, and lets time how long it takes to shut it down for good.
Reading between the lines, it sounds to me like little miss gameyard queen just doesn't want to allow gaming, or just outright can't handle working in a game shop and would just as soon sell bras and panties.
These stores are generic run of the mill company stores. they have non-indiependant streaks to them. It wouldn't have happened if home office didn't allow it.
The "Place of business" is selling games. not just a used car lot showing pretty painted models. You do that buy drumming interest and cultivating a need. THEN you keep people involved and playing- thereby needing to buy something in a store that they want to come in and see what the fuss is all about.
Tyron wrote: GW putting yet another cart before the horse. Seriously how many carts must this one horse push till it dies?!
It won't. Too many people are tied to the brand to ever consider letting go. I'm quite happy for GW to keep running forever as they are, not that I buy or really play anything they currently produce any more.
Tyron wrote: GW putting yet another cart before the horse. Seriously how many carts must this one horse push till it dies?!
It won't. Too many people are tied to the brand to ever consider letting go. I'm quite happy for GW to keep running forever as they are, not that I buy or really play anything they currently produce any more.
It will, it is only a matter of time. Sales are falling and if you read between the lines of the financial reports it is only because GW are cutting back on expenses that they still 'growing' (at a much slower pace than the rest of the industry).
Damn GW, that's just a weird move.
Me and my mates are going to Amsterdam in two months, we'll check the GW there to see what is going on.
Any case, it doesn't hurt us. Closes store is an indipendant retailer, where you can always play, and we've got a pretty good gaming club that meets every week for all sorts of tabletop gaming.
Any Dutch Zeeuwen around who want to join an awesome club? We are recruiting!
Tyron wrote: GW putting yet another cart before the horse. Seriously how many carts must this one horse push till it dies?!
It won't. Too many people are tied to the brand to ever consider letting go. I'm quite happy for GW to keep running forever as they are, not that I buy or really play anything they currently produce any more.
It will, it is only a matter of time. Sales are falling and if you read between the lines of the financial reports it is only because GW are cutting back on expenses that they still 'growing' (at a much slower pace than the rest of the industry).
Tyron wrote: GW putting yet another cart before the horse. Seriously how many carts must this one horse push till it dies?!
It won't. Too many people are tied to the brand to ever consider letting go. I'm quite happy for GW to keep running forever as they are, not that I buy or really play anything they currently produce any more.
It will, it is only a matter of time. Sales are falling and if you read between the lines of the financial reports it is only because GW are cutting back on expenses that they still 'growing' (at a much slower pace than the rest of the industry).
Sorry, but I honestly don't think that GW will fall. If they decided to run a 24 hour only 10% off sale and annouced it as "HELP GW", how many of the rabids would think "hmmm, I've always fancied starting X army and now I can help the company as well.............." and throw money at them?
Even when prices go up each spring, its always "I'll just buy the bits I need to finish my army and then thats it" - which is another bunch of cash being thrown at the company. Addicts are addicts, glad to say I'm clean now
masterdoobie wrote: Can I just confirm, this is not a joke? Also, has it been established what countries this will effect?
Check out more than just the last page of the thread
Currently this announcement affects the King's Lynn GW only.
With that said, there are other stores around the UK and around the world that have had this policy in place prior to King's Lynn getting it. It's not widespread... but it's certainly getting there.
Tyron wrote: GW putting yet another cart before the horse. Seriously how many carts must this one horse push till it dies?!
It won't. Too many people are tied to the brand to ever consider letting go. I'm quite happy for GW to keep running forever as they are, not that I buy or really play anything they currently produce any more.
It will, it is only a matter of time. Sales are falling and if you read between the lines of the financial reports it is only because GW are cutting back on expenses that they still 'growing' (at a much slower pace than the rest of the industry).
Sorry, but I honestly don't think that GW will fall. If they decided to run a 24 hour only 10% off sale and annouced it as "HELP GW", how many of the rabids would think "hmmm, I've always fancied starting X army and now I can help the company as well.............." and throw money at them?
Even when prices go up each spring, its always "I'll just buy the bits I need to finish my army and then thats it" - which is another bunch of cash being thrown at the company. Addicts are addicts, glad to say I'm clean now
The part you are missing there is the continuing falling sales. If GW doesn't do something about that they will reach a point where they collapse, but GW seem intent on covering up the problem with price rises and cutting costs rather than actually trying to bring people back into the hobby.
NAVARRO wrote: I was thinking how would a single man store control more than a very limited group of people in their stores?
For example a new customer pops in and a couple people are playing demos and others browsing new stuff, some maybe painting and then the phone call starts to ring... I feel sorry for the fella.
Kicking vets is the last thing you should do in one man stores because you know they can actually be those store managers unpaid extra eyes and hands etc.
I believe its in GW best interest to close most of these stores because what is the point if they strip down the community, limit gaming to minimums etc... They cannot even have tournaments in those small stores... Save those pennies and invest in Publicity and roadshows and participate in third party events for better bang for your buck I would say.
Before we were saddled with a GW, we used to have a proper FLGS. (Closure unrelated to GW opening.)
It was essentially a one man shop, but with a small team covering days off etc..
You know what the vets would do if it got busy? We'd help, at least those of us who felt competent and confident enough to do so. Answering the phone, taking cash at the till, engaging with the customer if it was an item or game we knew something about. We had a great group, the core of which still games together in some form or another to this day, some 10 years or more since those heydays. We cared about the shopkeeper and his business, and he looked after us. Hell, I even had a key and an alarm code for a bit, as the owner let us open up and game on a Sunday, even though he didn't officially open.
This sort of mutual support will NEVER exist in GW in its current state, not simply because of the logistics of till security etc, but because there is simply no way they could ever conceive of this sort of community. Believe me, I do understand the 'its a business' argument, but there isn't only one way to run a business, and that guy bought a house, a boat and supported his wife and 4 children in an ample manner for nearly 20 years off the back of our loyalty and fraternity.
The old adage "You catch more flies with honey" has never been truer.
NAVARRO wrote: I was thinking how would a single man store control more than a very limited group of people in their stores?
For example a new customer pops in and a couple people are playing demos and others browsing new stuff, some maybe painting and then the phone call starts to ring... I feel sorry for the fella.
Kicking vets is the last thing you should do in one man stores because you know they can actually be those store managers unpaid extra eyes and hands etc.
I believe its in GW best interest to close most of these stores because what is the point if they strip down the community, limit gaming to minimums etc... They cannot even have tournaments in those small stores... Save those pennies and invest in Publicity and roadshows and participate in third party events for better bang for your buck I would say.
Before we were saddled with a GW, we used to have a proper FLGS. (Closure unrelated to GW opening.)
It was essentially a one man shop, but with a small team covering days off etc..
You know what the vets would do if it got busy? We'd help, at least those of us who felt competent and confident enough to do so. Answering the phone, taking cash at the till, engaging with the customer if it was an item or game we knew something about. We had a great group, the core of which still games together in some form or another to this day, some 10 years or more since those heydays. We cared about the shopkeeper and his business, and he looked after us. Hell, I even had a key and an alarm code for a bit, as the owner let us open up and game on a Sunday, even though he didn't officially open.
This sort of mutual support will NEVER exist in GW in its current state, not simply because of the logistics of till security etc, but because there is simply no way they could ever conceive of this sort of community. Believe me, I do understand the 'its a business' argument, but there isn't only one way to run a business, and that guy bought a house, a boat and supported his wife and 4 children in an ample manner for nearly 20 years off the back of our loyalty and fraternity.
The old adage "You catch more flies with honey" has never been truer.
+ 1 to the sentiment.
This was what we once had over here as well. One of the stores was indeed a GW. back in thier more indie days where community flavor helped the stores.
I didn't belong to the whole "have keys and alarm " thing, but I knew people in that sort of a relationship with the owner.
Honesty is a rare thing. A pure honor to play in such a place, Great stores like this? You can count on maybe 1 hand.
Oh its absolutely amazing to have a good store like that around, I've got an FLGS 30 minutes away that is the only one I go to, despite there being 2-3 closer ones to me. I've become friends with the couple that owns the store, they've always allowed me to just walk right in and start up a game, even if I never was actually going to buy anything. (That only happened a few times, I'm susceptible to shiny syndrome )
The Brand New Local GW store frowns on open gaming here ..
They have 2 small tables one is set up for demos ..of whatever the latest boxed set is ..and it is a one employee store ..so yea no open gaming ..the store operator ( not propriter or owner or manager ..just operator) knows barley enough about the games and non of the games history to work the store ..We have two FLGS's and one is more club than store. I have visited the local GW I have no further wishes to return ..nor do most who have gone in ..its too ..retail..
I thought for a while that GW was like an abusive friend you are thinking to let go, but they are so much fun at a party.
Now it is more like the old nutty uncle you were fond of that you see slowly wasting away.
GW I actually feel a bit of panic because I know they are doing all the wrong things and they are feeding on themselves to scrape up savings at the expense of future sources of revenue. They are too self absorbed to see it and make everyone angry by their oblivious nature.
Prediction: GW will come to the brink, look for a buyer. Find one that remembers the good old days and be so successful the prior managment will cry in their beer.
Couldn't have said it better myself actually. Wait. Dakka should hold a fundraiser/something to buy out ALL GW stock. We will effectively own the company. Change market tactics. Then again, I don't understand anything about the stock market, school never seems to think that'd be useful to prepare you for the future.
NAVARRO wrote: I was thinking how would a single man store control more than a very limited group of people in their stores?
For example a new customer pops in and a couple people are playing demos and others browsing new stuff, some maybe painting and then the phone call starts to ring... I feel sorry for the fella.
Kicking vets is the last thing you should do in one man stores because you know they can actually be those store managers unpaid extra eyes and hands etc.
I believe its in GW best interest to close most of these stores because what is the point if they strip down the community, limit gaming to minimums etc... They cannot even have tournaments in those small stores... Save those pennies and invest in Publicity and roadshows and participate in third party events for better bang for your buck I would say.
Before we were saddled with a GW, we used to have a proper FLGS. (Closure unrelated to GW opening.)
It was essentially a one man shop, but with a small team covering days off etc..
You know what the vets would do if it got busy? We'd help, at least those of us who felt competent and confident enough to do so. Answering the phone, taking cash at the till, engaging with the customer if it was an item or game we knew something about. We had a great group, the core of which still games together in some form or another to this day, some 10 years or more since those heydays. We cared about the shopkeeper and his business, and he looked after us. Hell, I even had a key and an alarm code for a bit, as the owner let us open up and game on a Sunday, even though he didn't officially open.
This sort of mutual support will NEVER exist in GW in its current state, not simply because of the logistics of till security etc, but because there is simply no way they could ever conceive of this sort of community. Believe me, I do understand the 'its a business' argument, but there isn't only one way to run a business, and that guy bought a house, a boat and supported his wife and 4 children in an ample manner for nearly 20 years off the back of our loyalty and fraternity.
The old adage "You catch more flies with honey" has never been truer.
Bingo.
At most GWs around here you can find tons of ex-staffers and knowledgable vets that will help out, that is until the higher ups at GW stomped in one day and branded all ex staff with the lovely title of "renegades" and should be asked to leave or directed out of a GW store as soon as possible. As for vets helping that is a monstrous no-no as far as GW is concerned, I saw a manager get reemed out for getting a customer to help out, but thats more so about liability and insurance stuff.
I still get slightly amused by the old local store manager's reaction on one of the first occasions I went in after returning about two years ago.
As I'd been out of the hhhobby for a decade or so, and only been back for a few weeks, I was ignorant to how far GW had fallen.
Now, I'm a laid back guy, but I'm 6'5" and about 300lbs, and I know how to use it if needed, coupled with the fact I have a background in retail sales and management that would outshine most of the GW managers, a fact he was aware of from earlier chats we'd had. I also got the impression he felt he needed to up his game when trying to sell to me because of this.
Anyway, that's a load of exposition for a very short story, but I went in one vets night to see who of the old group was about. Because, you know, that was the sort of thing we used to do in the old shop.
Manager barrels up to me with £ signs in his eyes, makes some bs, script based attempt to try and open an opportunity to pitch something at me, to which I replied thanks, but I'm just here to visit.
I swear he shut down for a full 5 seconds while he tried to process the information, which is a lifetime in the middle of a conversation, try it, before basically just mumbling something and walking away.
I remain convinced that I temporarily overloaded his connection with the mothership and he needed to reboot!
I've seen it become worse and worse for just over one year time. All the rather good managers and floor workers get the sack before you know it. I've already seen 3/4 of them get fired in less than a year. It used to be that you came in and asked to play a game you could. They've become rather meh about it, even thought they have 2 free tables next to the demo one.
Sirius42 wrote: My store did exactly same thing, in October last year. Has pretty much killed my hobby as the only time I had free for hobby was on store run vets nights. I still have that time, just nowhere to game it
There has to be a club near you, I have never spent any length of time in an area with a GW where there wasn't (although a couple were exceptionally poor clubs).
There are clubs here, but not on nights I can do saddly, I realise its my problem more than gw's buti have 1 free night a week, which is not a club night, it was vets night before the change though. I guess that's what I get for being busy busy busy :p
azreal13 wrote: I still get slightly amused by the old local store manager's reaction on one of the first occasions I went in after returning about two years ago.
As I'd been out of the hhhobby for a decade or so, and only been back for a few weeks, I was ignorant to how far GW had fallen.
Now, I'm a laid back guy, but I'm 6'5" and about 300lbs, and I know how to use it if needed, coupled with the fact I have a background in retail sales and management that would outshine most of the GW managers, a fact he was aware of from earlier chats we'd had. I also got the impression he felt he needed to up his game when trying to sell to me because of this.
Anyway, that's a load of exposition for a very short story, but I went in one vets night to see who of the old group was about. Because, you know, that was the sort of thing we used to do in the old shop.
Manager barrels up to me with £ signs in his eyes, makes some bs, script based attempt to try and open an opportunity to pitch something at me, to which I replied thanks, but I'm just here to visit.
I swear he shut down for a full 5 seconds while he tried to process the information, which is a lifetime in the middle of a conversation, try it, before basically just mumbling something and walking away.
I remain convinced that I temporarily overloaded his connection with the mothership and he needed to reboot!
ahaha I love doing that, I've worked in retail at different levels and shutting down their sales pitch is fantastic! I *hate* it when people jump on me as soon as I walk into a store
