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 kronk wrote:

wildger wrote:
Someone must be in cloud 9 to think that FLGS are keen to encourage GW games to play in their stores,

??? The GW nearest me sells GW, Magic the Gathering, and board games. They have 3 tables set up for 40k. They're moving to a larger location to have more room for 40k.

That's not a GW store, that's an independent stockist [/pedant]

DOH!

I meant the FLGS near me! It isn't a GW store.

I'll edit that post.

 kronk wrote:
DOH!

I meant the FLGS near me! It isn't a GW store.

I'll edit that post.

I had to do a double take. MTG being sold in GW? I know on occasion I've played MTG in my local GW; from a time when the manager simply did not give a gak. But, buying it...

 Grimtuff wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:

Or they did some market research and found out that having a load of regulars in the store all the time makes the place look tacky. They may be trying to "clean up" their high street image.

Yeah, an empty store when you're trying to sell a social hobby is a good idea.

Blue knights gonna blue knight.

I want nothing to do with the "social hobby". I want to game with my *friends*, not the sort of people who hang out in GW stores. You know what I mean those guys are offputting to normal people.

Thanks for missing the point so dramatically. Your blatant obtuseness is becoming something of a habit.

One of the GW HHHOBBY's biggest selling points to the mums and dads was the fact it was NOT something you do in isolation. In addition to getting little Timmy into reading more, developing maths skills (from making army lists) and their hand-eye coordination through painting, it is also something that GETS THEM OUT THE HOUSE and not sitting in front of their XBox. I've seen staff sell the game this way numerous times to skeptical parents and the fact that they can potentially see this in action right in front of them (preferably on a Sunday, where there will be kids of the same age playing the same game their child wants to get into).

THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU. No matter how much you try and make it out to be. Personally, I could not give a flying feth about my local GW's instore gaming policy as I too play at home, but this is about GW stores losing their entire shtick, one of their MAJOR hooks for parents, take the vast cash of the bank of mum and dad away and you'll kill the hobby as the new blood will dry up fairly quickly as they'll play at home (not every club allows children in, as they'll have to be CRB checked, which costs money) or dump the game when they find a new thing to get bored with.

I remember a few trial games in store as a kid but I just found the staff/other clientelle offputting. 40k is *designed* to be between friends, where you can have a laugh and make up/ignore rules for the sake of fun. Even amongst competative gamers I'd wager that they got into 40k competatively after playing it for fun with friends.

 precinctomega wrote:
Not really pursuant to this thread, so much as inspired by the several comments concerning the different gaming cultures between the UK and US:

US historical gamers have, for decades, formed associations and clubs to arrange games and provide a common space for social gaming. Why does this seem to not be the case with speculative gamers? And what, exactly, is stopping speculative gamers from doing the same? I know you have churches, schools, community centres, town halls and other hirable private spaces, many of which might also offer a limited amount of storage space for an additional fee.

So surely it can't be any more complicated to start a club than it is on this side of the Pond?

R.

I would speculate that because GW offers a "one-stop shop" for wargames, younger gamers, whose principal entry point into the hobby is The HHHobby rather than clubs, have grown up to think that shops are where you play games.

Hey Guys, time to weigh in on this.

I happen to be lucky enough to run the gaming events at my FLGS.
I have had good and bad luck through the years with our game room.
I have seen the "stinkers" and "dirties", Ive seen the nerds and geeks.
But what I have NEVER alllowed is OPEN GAMING.
There MUST be a host to have a succesful game area.
EVERY post here I have seen to one degree or another in our local community.
The idea that GW is booting the regulars in favor of the newbies is TOTALLY VIABLE.
Im not a GW White Knight, just a regular guy whos been around the block a few times.
"Neckbeards" as I like to call them, have been burned by GW's draconian marketing strategies for years and have developed a sour attitude towards GW in general. And they just CANT SEEM TO SHUT UP ABOUT IT!! Its almost masochistic. For someone to take the amount of abuse that the neckbeards have taken and still keep coming back for more is ridiculous!
The nasty things they say about the hobby they just love is stupid.
The negativity they create scares people away, and I think GW has taken the low road on this one.
Rather than clean up their image and ask others to do the same, they have cut off thier noses to spite thier faces.

 BryllCream wrote:
I remember a few trial games in store as a kid but I just found the staff/other clientelle offputting. 40k is *designed* to be between friends, where you can have a laugh and make up/ignore rules for the sake of fun. Even amongst competative gamers I'd wager that they got into 40k competatively after playing it for fun with friends.

It's all just anecdotal experience. Personally, I got in to GW largely because of the GW store. My friend played it too, but I mostly went to the store to play and while the staff can be annoying the first time you meet them because of their GW indoctrination, most of them are good guys (and a couple of gals). I've been going to the same GW store for about, ohhh, 15-16 years and over that time the staff has changed around a couple of times but I still know the staff and know the managers and yeah, occasionally I get a new staffer who doesn't know me come up and give the standard over enthusiastic GW spiel and stalk me, but for the most part once they know me we just have a chat, I sometimes go there to paint and sometimes go there to play a game (often against my friends and often against the staff themselves if they aren't overly busy).

I personally have no great desire to get in to the gaming clubs and I have no where to play at home, so me and my friends often play at the local GW. Different strokes for different folks. I tend to not go there at times and days when there's kids running around. I tried the club scene a couple of times and really didn't get in to it. I mostly played at the local GW and the local FLGS who had lots of tables set up (but has now closed down). That said, if my local GW was anything like the Philly GW I went to the other day (stinking of extremely bad body odor) then I probably wouldn't play at my local GW.

I know where Sean is coming from saying that the club scene is bigger than the store scene and most people don't play in stores, but at the end of the day I think it just varies from person to person and location to location even within a given country. For someone who games in clubs, shutting down games in stores is meaningless, for someone who likes to game in stores, it's a bit more annoying.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

FarseerAndyMan wrote:
Hey Guys, time to weigh in on this.

I happen to be lucky enough to run the gaming events at my FLGS.
I have had good and bad luck through the years with our game room.
I have seen the "stinkers" and "dirties", Ive seen the nerds and geeks.
But what I have NEVER alllowed is OPEN GAMING.
There MUST be a host to have a succesful game area.
EVERY post here I have seen to one degree or another in our local community.
The idea that GW is booting the regulars in favor of the newbies is TOTALLY VIABLE.
Im not a GW White Knight, just a regular guy whos been around the block a few times.
"Neckbeards" as I like to call them, have been burned by GW's draconian marketing strategies for years and have developed a sour attitude towards GW in general. And they just CANT SEEM TO SHUT UP ABOUT IT!! Its almost masochistic. For someone to take the amount of abuse that the neckbeards have taken and still keep coming back for more is ridiculous!
The nasty things they say about the hobby they just love is stupid.
The negativity they create scares people away, and I think GW has taken the low road on this one.
Rather than clean up their image and ask others to do the same, they have cut off thier noses to spite thier faces.

FYI, around my area, most the GW bitching and moaning occurs in FLGS's and clubs, most the people in the actual GW store don't act like that, so kicking out the people who are in GW only serves to create more unhappy customers who then tarnish your name in the FLGS's/clubs.

 BryllCream wrote:
Gaming clubs are not "common" in the UK at all. The only gaming club I know of within an hour's drive (and i don't even drive) is...Warhammer World!

http://www.gamingclubnetwork.co.uk/

Click "find a club". You mention GW Derby, there are two clubs in Derbyshire and several in the surrounding counties.
My experience is that for every 1 GCN club in an area, there are another 2 non- GCN aswell.

Seriously, Warwick? I don't even live in Nottinghamshire and can name three within an hour of you other than the 1St Company (which is the only independent club that uses WHW as a venue).

There are, to my knowledge, two that meet at the Eye of the Storm (still open, last I heard). Then there's KIA in Kirby.

R.

GW are trying to have their cake and eat it. For years they attempted to justify premium prices on the fact that they had to maintain their network of 'hobby centers' that apparently where open to all and of beneift to the hobby as a whole..

Now their prices are as high as ever and the 'hobby centers' are nothing more than shops. I honestly can't think of a single reason to had over a penny of my cash to them. Other companies now do what GW used to do cheaper and better.

 LuciusAR wrote:
GW are trying to have their cake and eat it. For years they attempted to justify premium prices on the fact that they had to maintain their network of 'hobby centers' that apparently where open to all and of beneift to the hobby as a whole..

Now their prices are as high as ever and the 'hobby centers' are nothing more than shops. I honestly can't think of a single reason to had over a penny of my cash to them. Other companies now do what GW used to do cheaper and better.

This is a very good point, you used to "pay for the hobby support", and now that's gone....

 precinctomega wrote:
Jervis has emphasized several times that the GW hobby is a collecting hobby, with gaming being a happy bonus. And, if one ignores the vocal minority (i.e. Everyone on DakkaDakka) he's right. The hobby is essentially acquisitive. If it weren't, we'd build our armies and then stop. But we don't: we keep buying new stuff that piles up in heaps far larger than we could possibly paint in outer limited hobby time.

Locally, I would totally support this move, not because it would be good for GW per se, but because it would force the GW store's population of lazy gamers to look beyond the tips of their noses at the larger community of games, miniatures, clubs and stores.

R.

Jervis says exactly what he's told (and paid) to say.

I, for one, would not collect ten of the same miniature and paint them all in a near identical way just to have them, I do it so I can field them in the game. If I was a collector, then I would be buying any number of other manufacturers models before I considered the majority of GW's catalogue.

One thing I do agree with, albeit not quite in the manner you expressed it, is that this move can only be good for independent clubs and other systems, GW seem to want to keep people tied to them and buying from them exclusively, yet this move could very well lead to the total opposite effect.

PhantomViper wrote:

GAMES WORKSHOP, KINGS LYNN wrote:
The most important of these changes is that we will be bringing to a close our open gaming. This is great news

AHAHAHAHAHAHAH

I'm sorry, but I can't be the only person to find this hilarious!

I stopped reading there. There could be no other company with so much contempt for its own customers.

I give them inside of 5 years before we see major change within GW. This is not sustainable business practice.

So, just to make sure I am reading everything right, this is NOT a global trend and is only effecting one store at the moment?

Yes and no, this announcement pertains just to one store, but it isn't the first time something similar has been reported.

I have 3 places within a 15-30 minute drive to game at, so this isnt a big deal to me.
Who wants to game at a GW, they are small, cramped, and have pushy staff and yelling kids.

 Happygrunt wrote:
So, just to make sure I am reading everything right, this is NOT a global trend and is only effecting one store at the moment?

It is a global trend, it has just not been happening simultaneously. This is being brought into effect in GWs across the oceans over the last couple of years, it is an ongoing thing, perhaps being brought in slowly to prevent too much of a clamor, but gaming, other than introduction games and 'promotional events', are being phased out of GW stores.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:
So, just to make sure I am reading everything right, this is NOT a global trend and is only effecting one store at the moment?

It is a global trend, it has just not been happening simultaneously. This is being brought into effect in GWs across the oceans over the last couple of years, it is an ongoing thing, perhaps being brought in slowly to prevent too much of a clamor, but gaming, other than introduction games and 'promotional events', are being phased out of GW stores.

Good thing I am off to college next year.

What I always found interesting is that the Seattle area always seems to be immune from these changes. Probably because here they are directly competing with warmachine, but I really don't know.

This is happening in the US currently but at a slower place. The manager at my local GW has been making changes to discourage people staying and gaming - the idea is to push people to game at home and in clubs. The idea is to mimic the UK situation.

He has seen quite the drop in people at his store.

This will probably be policy in the US soon.

Finally I wish to allay any fears or rumours some of you may have or have heard. Namely that Games Workshop is "getting rid of its regulars". Please do not be concerned as this is not the case. GW intends to support ALL of their collectors be they new or old, and the coming changes are entirely geared towards us being able to do this for now until forever - YOU ARE CATEGORICALLY NOT BEING TOLD TO LEAVE.

Not told to leave but being told not to play... LOL. Sales will die... I watch people play in tourneys or just pick up games and the average player drops about 30 to 50 bucks everytime. (Some none but some a lot more.) I got into the hobby by seeing a well painted space wolf army... Under this plan it would never have happened! Good job GW, I don't need to see their pro-painted demo armies encouraging anyone to play or - God forbid - some slopped together, half-painted POS.

So between unfriendly atmosphere, no discounts, guaranteed annual price hikes and codex nerfing they seem to be doing their darnest to make the hobby die. Thankfully the nearest GW-owned shop is more than 150 miles away so it will not dampen our area.

FarseerAndyMan wrote:
Hey Guys, time to weigh in on this.

I happen to be lucky enough to run the gaming events at my FLGS.
I have had good and bad luck through the years with our game room.
I have seen the "stinkers" and "dirties", Ive seen the nerds and geeks.
But what I have NEVER alllowed is OPEN GAMING.
There MUST be a host to have a succesful game area.
EVERY post here I have seen to one degree or another in our local community.
The idea that GW is booting the regulars in favor of the newbies is TOTALLY VIABLE.
Im not a GW White Knight, just a regular guy whos been around the block a few times.
"Neckbeards" as I like to call them, have been burned by GW's draconian marketing strategies for years and have developed a sour attitude towards GW in general. And they just CANT SEEM TO SHUT UP ABOUT IT!! Its almost masochistic. For someone to take the amount of abuse that the neckbeards have taken and still keep coming back for more is ridiculous!
The nasty things they say about the hobby they just love is stupid.
The negativity they create scares people away, and I think GW has taken the low road on this one.
Rather than clean up their image and ask others to do the same, they have cut off thier noses to spite thier faces.

Maybe on your block, but I have seen it first hand in three or four different states to the contrary. GW earned the negativity to thier own credit. No one did that tot hem but themselves. To see a room full of tables, around eight to ten on a good day go to one to two? Neckbeards did that? Neckbeards made the policies?

Methinks you protest too much- to take a phrase from our mates across the pond.

They arn't just booting regulars, chief. They are shutting down gaming in store period. And for those thinking it is just one store, your full of beans. What goes for one goes for all. These stores are corperate stores, such as the same as a Mickey mouse store, or Mickey D's.

Open gaming was part in parcel of the store. YOU saying that on one hand you organized play, and in the next breath claim you had no open gaming is a dualidy that might have gone in your neck of the beard, but not in other areas.
How do you think the sales continued? If you think some chone is going to "Make sales" in one of the indoctrination centers, you are mistaken. One foot in, two feet gone.

FarseerAndyMan wrote:
Hey Guys, time to weigh in on this.

I happen to be lucky enough to run the gaming events at my FLGS.
I have had good and bad luck through the years with our game room.
I have seen the "stinkers" and "dirties", Ive seen the nerds and geeks.
But what I have NEVER alllowed is OPEN GAMING.
There MUST be a host to have a succesful game area.
EVERY post here I have seen to one degree or another in our local community.
The idea that GW is booting the regulars in favor of the newbies is TOTALLY VIABLE.
Im not a GW White Knight, just a regular guy whos been around the block a few times.
"Neckbeards" as I like to call them, have been burned by GW's draconian marketing strategies for years and have developed a sour attitude towards GW in general. And they just CANT SEEM TO SHUT UP ABOUT IT!! Its almost masochistic. For someone to take the amount of abuse that the neckbeards have taken and still keep coming back for more is ridiculous!
The nasty things they say about the hobby they just love is stupid.
The negativity they create scares people away, and I think GW has taken the low road on this one.
Rather than clean up their image and ask others to do the same, they have cut off thier noses to spite thier faces.

Wait at minute! A at FLGS there is no open gaming allowed?

Since it's a store it has opening hours where there isn't events running and you wouldn't allow two friends to play each other?

You don't have to have a dedicated host to gaming area to let the users have a good time

 Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

FarseerAndyMan wrote:
Hey Guys, time to weigh in on this.

I happen to be lucky enough to run the gaming events at my FLGS.
I have had good and bad luck through the years with our game room.
I have seen the "stinkers" and "dirties", Ive seen the nerds and geeks.
But what I have NEVER alllowed is OPEN GAMING.
There MUST be a host to have a succesful game area.
EVERY post here I have seen to one degree or another in our local community.
The idea that GW is booting the regulars in favor of the newbies is TOTALLY VIABLE.
Im not a GW White Knight, just a regular guy whos been around the block a few times.
"Neckbeards" as I like to call them, have been burned by GW's draconian marketing strategies for years and have developed a sour attitude towards GW in general. And they just CANT SEEM TO SHUT UP ABOUT IT!! Its almost masochistic. For someone to take the amount of abuse that the neckbeards have taken and still keep coming back for more is ridiculous!
The nasty things they say about the hobby they just love is stupid.
The negativity they create scares people away, and I think GW has taken the low road on this one.
Rather than clean up their image and ask others to do the same, they have cut off thier noses to spite thier faces.

Wait at minute! A at FLGS there is no open gaming allowed?

Since it's a store it has opening hours where there isn't events running and you wouldn't allow two friends to play each other?

You don't have to have a dedicated host to gaming area to let the users have a good time

Yeah, that's a bit silly IMO. At my FLGS we would always ask the shop owners if we could play and then once we were playing we didn't need a "host". We ask first partly out of respect and partly because gaming clubs used the stores and we didn't want to be on a table that a club might want to use later in the evening.

Even when a club isn't running you don't need a games host, say if two friends don't work one weekday and decide to head to the LGS for a game, if there isn't a dedicated employee watching them play they can't?

FarseerAndyMan wrote:
Im not a GW White Knight

Never say this, it's like getting a neon sign for the white armour.



I'm rather indifferent to GW removing gaming from the stores. I mean you have the negatives I suppose, but it also means you don't have the token ten year old, you hear about so often,grabbing your models and playing space men with them. Plus then you're opened up to non-GW alternative parts to make your army look nicer if you wanted.

I honestly don't know what's funnier - the fact the decided the best way for people to see the HHHobby demonstrated is to go play somewhere else, or the fact that; as expected, the usual suspects found this totally reasonable. Who could have seen that coming, right?

I reiterate - if Tom Kirby held a press conference in which all he did was punch a baby as hard as he could, there'd be a post on Dakka within an hour saying that baby totally had it coming.

Anyway, it's good to see this guy found work again



cause we all missed him.

Hey.

Babies can be jerks too, Ouze.

Obligatory (one NSFW word)

So, was it ever determined definitively that this is a global policy?

So when GW make it difficult to use their products and force you into gaming clubs dont they realize those gaming clubs have their competition?

Lets assume a total noob gets pushed out of his GW store and finds a club, only to see them playing Warmachine or MtG or whatever, you just basically handed them every reason to look at all your companies flaws by comparison. Especially those companies that actually respect (or at least feel like they respect) their customers.

Point of information: GW King's Lynn is ending open gaming, not all gaming. They will still have organized having activities: tournaments, leagues, campaigns, narrative games and suchlike.

R.