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 ProtoClone wrote:
Sounds like this is an effort to control the amount of hobby/community exposure there is to beginners.

The less people buying in to the game are exposed to others already in the game the more likely GW will be able to make a sale. Once those new hobbyist are out in the world and starts finding stuff online, they run in to the community and will find the dirt that GW has created.

Maybe not true, but this is what it is sounding like to me.

*Sigh*

Those words were probably spoken exactly as you said them at at least one of GW's recent marketing meetings. I think they have realized that they have angered their once loyal followers enough to where they might stop playing and look elsewhere; with the internet those of us who care can see that some of their best have left to create their own companies based on the values and dedication to its followers that made GW great in the first place.

So instead of trying to win back people who have already invested thousands of dollars and can only be expected to contribute a few hundred more over the years verses acquiring new people who won't recognize the trap of their marketing-created rules that force you to spend at least $1,000 before you have any semblance of a complete army; all the better if they an get us out of their store so the new players won't even know about Dakka (Any time I have brought up the online community at GW, they take the stance that it is either their Facebook page or troll land that has nothing to contribute to the hobby). so the only way people learn what they need to be competitive is to buy and play through trial and error at their "events".

Ya, the similarities between GW's transformation and EA's years ago can't be ignored at this point, We are just going to have to be resigned to the fact that GW will now and forever more put marketing first and gamers second, and hopefully when this industry's 2K arrives and shows the world where fan service, art and solid mechanics can coexist, I'll hopefully be able to use some of my GW models.

But they'll get their wish and I'll never go into a GW again if that's true. Randomly showing up in my spare time to pick up a game is what made me purchase the majority of my supplies and extra units to work on while I waited, honestly it was the only way they got any business out of me in the past year aside from the 6th edition rule book.

It really sucks living in an area where the closest FLGS is twice as far away as the closest GW, but I guess it is time I looked elsewhere to play.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I can understand why they're removing "open gaming".

It's not the greatest thing when you have people who arrange games and then one person never shows or they both do show up and end up just hogging the tables until they decide to leave.

Amen brother, that is such a wide spread problem that the only possible solution is to outright ban normal games from the store! Its not like something like that could be easily solved by instituting a maximum amount of time for a gaming table to be used, or that some sort of scheduling or reservation system could be instantiated...

By this point it shouldn't really surprise me that some people would try to defend even something like this, but it still does...

Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Going to a local club is probably the best thing a player can do - it'll provide a wider range of games and different systems as well as getting them away from the idea of the "GW HOBBY" being all there is.

Clubs can be just as bad though, esp. if they we're formed in "GW towns". You have to put in a exorbitant amount of effort to tear members away from GW games; simply because it requires spending money on a new game.

IF you do get a new game started up there, you'll only have a small clique within a niche group (and even in there you'll have people unwilling to expand past the starter box) where the games become, for lack of a better term, a little... incestuous. You fail to develop as a player due to playing the same people over and over again with no chance to experience differences of the wider game.

Heaven forbid if you also get someone who feels the need to babysit every game in said clique...

It's just not worth the sheer amount of effort in my experience.

 kronk wrote:
The game store near me is moving into a building with 3x times the space and similar rent (or so they say).

Play at your FLGS.

And buy there too.

I wonder who GW is basing their business model off of, since they seem to think their previous GW model is not working.

This move just feels desperate to me, pretty much the way everything has felt since they went public.

Worst decision ever for the company, and the best for the High Level Managment's pockets.

PhantomViper wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I can understand why they're removing "open gaming".

It's not the greatest thing when you have people who arrange games and then one person never shows or they both do show up and end up just hogging the tables until they decide to leave.

Amen brother, that is such a wide spread problem that the only possible solution is to outright ban normal games from the store!

Why so sarcastic?

Its not like something like that could be easily solved by instituting a maximum amount of time for a gaming table to be used, or that some sort of scheduling or reservation system could be instantiated...

But that's the problem with "open gaming". The players themselves set up the games, and any time a store goes to a 'scheduling or reservation system' people react the same as they do to an "end to open gaming".

You might not see the issue with "open gaming". But speaking as someone who has seen how it can be taken advantage of, limiting to "Demo Games" outside of store sponsored events is actually a far more manageable idea.

PhantomViper wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I can understand why they're removing "open gaming".

It's not the greatest thing when you have people who arrange games and then one person never shows or they both do show up and end up just hogging the tables until they decide to leave.

Amen brother, that is such a wide spread problem that the only possible solution is to outright ban normal games from the store! Its not like something like that could be easily solved by instituting a maximum amount of time for a gaming table to be used, or that some sort of scheduling or reservation system could be instantiated...

By this point it shouldn't really surprise me that some people would try to defend even something like this, but it still does...

Never underestimate how many plants GW might have in their Marketing dept. I wouldn't be surprised if it is a requirement for people on their Marketing staff (if not every employee, since they are all required to check in and out of facebook and "like" certain things; no gak, it is in memos they leave laying around) to go online every so often and upvote everything positive about GW in polls around the internet and defend them with arguments crafted in house by committee. I'm not saying that's you Kanluwen, but is is a more common practice than you think.

I worked for a company that designed a website (under another separate company) specifically to appear as an objective reviewing process of companies within the industry it served just so five years later, after establishing credibility, it would always put the companies also owned by the owner of the website on top of the ratings and receive positive reviews more often than any other company. Never underestimate the underhandedness and psychological approach of marketing execs.

 Grimtuff wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 kronk wrote:
The game store near me is moving into a building with 3x times the space and similar rent (or so they say).

Play at your FLGS.

Not that simple when you are talking about the UK, due to the dissemination of GW stores, there aren't that many FLGS AFAIK.

This.

One of the only ones with major gaming space was Maelstrom. And we know what happened there...

I hear ya, man. I guess you guys play at clubs, right?

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Play at a club.

We don't have those as much in the States. FLGSs, though.

Edited by Manchu

 Kanluwen wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I can understand why they're removing "open gaming".

It's not the greatest thing when you have people who arrange games and then one person never shows or they both do show up and end up just hogging the tables until they decide to leave.

Amen brother, that is such a wide spread problem that the only possible solution is to outright ban normal games from the store!

Why so sarcastic?

Because your statement was so utterly boggling.

Tell me how two people hog multiple tables or take too long playing the game? As far as I'm aware, two people come to a gaming table, set up, play and then pack their gak away. If they still have their stuff laying about or are buggering off someplace and leaving stuff there, it's for the staff to request they pack up or just pack their stuff off the table, in the rare and peculiar instance that might happen. Further, how do they hog a table if one doesn't show? Does the individual who did cover the table in his minis and tears in some form of 'occupy' styled protest?

 Kanluwen wrote:

Its not like something like that could be easily solved by instituting a maximum amount of time for a gaming table to be used, or that some sort of scheduling or reservation system could be instantiated...

But that's the problem with "open gaming". The players themselves set up the games, and any time a store goes to a 'scheduling or reservation system' people react the same as they do to an "end to open gaming".

You might not see the issue with "open gaming". But speaking as someone who has seen how it can be taken advantage of, limiting to "Demo Games" outside of store sponsored events is actually a far more manageable idea.

What the hell? Open gaming facilitates games getting played, that's the purpose of the entire fething company, how is that taking advantage.

Where on earth did you pull this nonsense from Kan, it's utterly legless.

This is a common issue as it happened at my local GW store. I ran a club not too far away playing mostly GW games but could never get any manager to come to us - we went through 5 in 2 years! W could never get people to come out of the GW to our club to play despite us having more tables and better terrain - thy wanted free play.

Then suddenly one day a couple of months back I got a message a host of them were coming down because they had, ever so nicely, been told to go and play somewhere else as the shop was for beginners really and they needed to go as they were taking the space they needed for beginners!

Suffice to say they were not pleased about the GW policy.

 Kanluwen wrote:

But that's the problem with "open gaming". The players themselves set up the games, and any time a store goes to a 'scheduling or reservation system' people react the same as they do to an "end to open gaming".

You might not see the issue with "open gaming". But speaking as someone who has seen how it can be taken advantage of, limiting to "Demo Games" outside of store sponsored events is actually a far more manageable idea.

And, by the way Kanluwen, any number of efforts could have been made to resolve the issues you are bringing up by a manager of whatever GW you play at. And no, I don't think that people having to reserve tables (still being able to play around their schedule) and people who can only play when GW deems it a "that particular GW hobby" day do not generate the same reaction. The old manager of the local GW, the one who earned my loyalty by encouraging me to reserve two tables to put together so my friends and I could have massive apoc battles that took all day, got way more business out of me than the current guy who interrupts my games with his breaks and makes me and everyone else leave their models in the store while he goes and has lunch & dinner elsewhere. I'm not saying that people who work at GW shouldn't be allowed to take breaks, but there is a vast difference between someone who will accommodate and encourage people to play the way they enjoy while still running a business vs a script reader who takes the stance of "take your play gaming elsewhere, I have sales to make."

 Kanluwen wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I can understand why they're removing "open gaming".

It's not the greatest thing when you have people who arrange games and then one person never shows or they both do show up and end up just hogging the tables until they decide to leave.

Amen brother, that is such a wide spread problem that the only possible solution is to outright ban normal games from the store!

Why so sarcastic?

Its not like something like that could be easily solved by instituting a maximum amount of time for a gaming table to be used, or that some sort of scheduling or reservation system could be instantiated...

But that's the problem with "open gaming". The players themselves set up the games, and any time a store goes to a 'scheduling or reservation system' people react the same as they do to an "end to open gaming".

You might not see the issue with "open gaming". But speaking as someone who has seen how it can be taken advantage of, limiting to "Demo Games" outside of store sponsored events is actually a far more manageable idea.

I apologize for my sarcastic tone, was a bit uncalled for.

But you have to agree with me that the best way to promote miniature wargaming is to actually show the games getting played and people having fun playing them, right?

At least that is the way that I've contributed to the relaunch of a game and that is the way that every single game gets picked up over here... Some nutjobs order some minis, start playing whatever game in a public location, other people watch them and realize that its actually quite fun and order miniatures of their own... That is how it is done and without fail it has proven to be allot more effective as a recruitment tool than just offering demo games out of the blue.

With this measure that GW store is effectively shutting down their most powerful and FREE advertising tool.

I think it's a wonderful opportunity for GW to start closing their stores.

I welcome GW stores not having open gaming.

It's a shop, not a club.

Personally I can't stand it when you can get to shelves due to a crowd of kids who are not buying anything.

I avoid my FLGS on tournament days for the same reason.

Lovepug13 wrote:

 unmercifulconker wrote:
If they actually did this in my local GW, I would laugh, then sit there, silently and then finally a dark hatred would envelope my soul. I would then sell all my models and just read books, maybe keep a few 'special' models and still hold the universe close to heart, but the relationship with GW would be exactly the same as Horus and the Emperor, except GW is Horus.

Maybe you should get out more...

But thats like, your opinion bro....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's annoying for me because the whole reason I got back into the game was to play again and there isnt even a local gaming store in my area. Ohwell, I suppose the only good outcome is that my wallet will be thankful.

 Ugavine wrote:
I welcome GW stores not having open gaming.

It's a shop, not a club.

Not according to GW themselves. It's a fething HOBBY CENTRE!


How. Many. Times. Must. This. Be. Repeated?

 kronk wrote:
The game store near me is moving into a building with 3x times the space and similar rent (or so they say).

Play at your FLGS.

See, over here in the UK, we have very very few FLGS, so people either go to clubs or GW. GW aren't too happy about people hanging around in there, even if you are playing (in the case of a few stores at least, not for all), and not everywhere has a club. Where I live, I'm lucky, because I got a club nearby. (although I haven't been in a while)

This is idiotic, but again, many of GW's decisions have shown the sharp drop of IQ rates within the company.

Well, I can still play at my house.

I can sort of see the comparison GW is trying to make.

I mean, when I go to Gamestop (I mean, when I used to go to Gamestop), I didn't bring my console and a tv with me. And when I go to Home Depot, I don't get to break out the power tools and start working.

But GW's trying to act like its so far out of the norms of the hobby that it can ignore normal conventions. And that'll cause some harsh feedback, especially in the places where GW stores were the ONLY place people go together to play.

There seems to be quite a few FLGS in the UK? Maybe I'm just spoilt for choice in my town and surrounding ones.

Basically, there are a few people confusing the practices in the UK with the USA. The whole internet diatribe is over there, not over here... Does anyone maybe think that GW in the UK are considering pushing people to independent retailers?

I distinctly remember my local GW manager saying it costs 50% of what they make to run the store, which is more than their markup difference. Infact, the regional manager told the guy at our old FLGS that if our GW wasn't a "flagship gaming centre" they'd close it as the FLGS outstrips its sales and makes them a lot more money than the loss leader that the store was.

ammp wrote:
There seems to be quite a few FLGS in the UK? Maybe I'm just spoilt for choice in my town and surrounding ones.

But how many of these have adequate gaming facilities? I can count on 1 hand the FLGS's that have such features.

ammp wrote:

Basically, there are a few people confusing the practices in the UK with the USA. The whole internet diatribe is over there, not over here... Does anyone maybe think that GW in the UK are considering pushing people to independent retailers?

Ummm, this came from GW Kings Lynn. Last time I checked Kings Lynn was in Norfolk in the UK.

I haven't played a game in a GW since 1993. Their stores have shrunk to the point that no one can play in them even if they wanted to, save for a handful like World of Battle. Also they need to be open to play, when they have to close at lunch because there's only 1 person in the store, it's kinda pathetic.

 Ugavine wrote:
I welcome GW stores not having open gaming.

It's a shop, not a club.

Personally I can't stand it when you can get to shelves due to a crowd of kids who are not buying anything.

I avoid my FLGS on tournament days for the same reason.

I agree. It's offputting to more grown-up gamers to have kids running around, especially on weekends. And chances are they'll be spending a lot less money than me too I wouldn't want to game at GW anyway, what's the point of playing 40k if you don't swear repeatidly?

Yeah sadly this former white knight is painting his armor black. It is only a matter of time until our local GW goes to no gaming when this happens i will go to the much further FLGS or get a table and have my friends over. This is just (fill in angst filled cuss words) ridiculous.

Cue all the people saying "This is the last straw! Now I'm only going to buy a little bit every now and then!"

They really should just shut down all GW stores as obviously they serve no purpose.

Someone stole my gorram DakkaDakka username!!!
I had to make a new account....

I'll just go ahead and post this big enough for people to not miss it:

My local GW Hobby Center Operator points out that this message is for A SINGLE UK STORE,
NOT something that applies to GW stores in general.







SEE ABOVE.

TEC wrote:
Someone stole my gorram DakkaDakka username!!!
I had to make a new account....

No one can steal a username that's already been registered...

My local GW Hobby Center Operator points out that this message is for A SINGLE UK STORE
something that applies to GW stores in general.

Um... no one is arguing this, but as others have pointed out, it's affecting more and more GW UK stores...

This makes me sad, when I started playing at my local GW store it was awesome. Now they won't let us have their codices near the tables, and if this is true for everywhere we won't be able to play there anymore. There is very rarely new players almost everyone who hangs out at our GW store is veteran players.

GAMES WORKSHOP, KINGS LYNN wrote:
Within the next few months you will notice a few changes to your local Games Workshop. The first of these will be arriving in the next couple of weeks.

The most important of these changes is that we will be bringing to a close our open gaming. This is great news as it inevitably means that you local store will be hosting fantastic new activites and events designed to give you a whole host of new hobby challenges and our trained staff will be on hand to support you and make sure that you get the most out of this awesome new programme.

LoL sums up the bolded part.

GAMES WORKSHOP, KINGS LYNN wrote:

Finally I wish to allay any fears or rumours some of you may have or have heard. Namely that Games Workshop is "getting rid of its regulars". Please do not be concerned as this is not the case. GW intends to support ALL of their collectors be they new or old, and the coming changes are entirely geared towards us being able to do this for now until forever - YOU ARE CATEGORICALLY NOT BEING TOLD TO LEAVE.

What are the customers to do, though, if they can't game in the store? Go through intro games with the staff?