Personally I don't see nids needing a total overhaul but definately some changes are needed. I'm thinking more about rules than points reductions. Things that might be good are:

1. Lictors adding reserve bonus from the start of the game not after they deploy.
2. Lictors being able to assault when they appear.
3. Pyrovores having the torrent special rule.
4. Warrior becoming S5 and T5.
5. Boneswords AP2.
6. Termagants going into rolling reserves when destroyed if you have a tervigon. Bring back that wave after wave of expendable troops that encourages nid players to use them boldly.
7. Rippers not dying if out of synapse range.
8. Make hormagants beasts.
9. Give the harpy something to shoot flyers with and let it vector strike at a higher strength than 5.
10. Let carnifexes get a 2+ armour save.
11. Make sporemines let friendly units ignore initiative penalties when charging through cover just like the daemons' skull cannon. Let this combine with biovores too.
12. Tervigons being HQ only. Troop versions have led to too much spam abuse. (Combine this with point 6 remember.)

1. I would like to see synapse phase out. It just limits what Nid players can do and makes it difficult to build small points lists

2. I would like to see some kind of flying monster that is worth the points. Flyrants just are not as good as a walking tyrant with tons of firepower and hive guard of equal points.

3. Rolling reserves sounds like the worst plan ever. It is hard enough to beat the swarm as it is the last thing the nids need more free models to put on the board.

4. an invulnerable save of some kind or another. It sucks to see that Expensive monster die in one hit from a force weapon and not get any kind of save.

Carnifexes can buy additional wounds up to a total of 6 wounds for 15 points a wound. Also being able to upgrade to WS 4 for being a veteran carnifex.

A flying monstrous creature with two damns.

Either make warriors cheaper or give them a better armor save purchase available.

Actually make models for the stuff they have in the damn book. Dont get me wrong i was quite proud of myself for making my tervigons back in the day. my doom too. still id rather just have one made for me.

get rid of pyrovores/biovores or make them cheaper.

mawlocs should be cheaper.

give hive guard skyfire.

and many many more of course.

Where do I start...

Synapse units should have some form of ID protection. Perhaps an invuln save only against ID attacks, or reducing it to 2 wounds would help.

Assuming they had that, Tyranid Warriors would just need a better armour save of 3+ (with 4+ for Shrikes) to make them more durable to massed bolter fire. Shrike Primes should also be an option.

Carnifexes should be tougher, to help distinguish them from all the other T6 MC's. Perhaps T7 and FNP / IWND as standard, with an optional 2+ armour upgrade.

Harpies should be a solid anti-air unit. Increased strength for vector strikes, and a venom cannon profile that isn't based on a blast.
Hive Guard could also be a good choice for a Skyfire upgrade.

Lictors should keep their current reserve bonuses, but be available on turn 1 like Drop Pods / Deathwing Assault. Perhaps with a 5+ or 6+ 'dodge' invulnerable save to help them weather a little fire. Move them to Fast Attack too.

Pyrovores and Venomthropes should be unit upgrades outside the FOC (like Apothecaries). Pyrovores would serve to help flush units out of cover and give assault grenade abilities, while Venomthropes remain in a defensive role.

Ripper broods could spawn additional units each time they eat something, creating a growing swarm. Also, give them Rending as standard.

Mawlocs need to be more reliable for what they do, since chances are they only get to do a burrow attack twice per game. Ignoring cover saves and reduced scatter is a good start.

Tyrannofexes needs an upgrade, as the weapons aren't really powerful enough to justify the cost. An S5, twin-linked Fleshborer Hive with Rending would be nicely terrifying, while the Rupture cannon could use at least one more shot and be AP1/2. Perhaps repurpose it into all close-range linebreaker MC, and make Zoanthropes the long-ranged anti-tank option instead.

Bring back Null Zone as an invulnerable save upgrade for key beasties like Hive Tyrants and Terivgons. The base cost of a Hive Tyrant should also be lower.

Tyrant Guard have FNP to better reflect their fluff.

Without Number.

Cost appropriate Carnifexes, either their points go down or their wounds go up to 6.

Re-gigging Tervigons so they don't crap out so easy. Possibly triples instead of doubles, or the same number total twice?

Other than that I am pretty happy with the army as a whole.

Just like all the other codexs...try to make everything a valid selection..meaning change things in the codex to raise and lower units as needed...make this a balanced game, or at least as close as you can get....


But it is strictly what we want.


I want a T10 creature with 6W...and 10 strength...with at least 6 instant death attacks if not more...all for no more than 200 points.

1) Hive Guard gain the option to Skyfire if they remain stationary.

2) Genestealers gain option to assault from reserves.

3) Synapse: If a nid suffers a wound that causes ID, roll a D6. On a 6 the ID effect from that wound is ignored and the creature only suffers a single wound. making it straight immunity to ID would be too powerful.

4) Readjust point costs here and there.

I agree that point costs need to be altered to justify taking certain models, along with a codex that is generally balanced. If that involves nerfing a few of the current powerhouses, then so be it, as long as they buff other underpowered ones. I'd rather play with a balanced codex than one that is largely askew (as I believe the current one is).

Unlike other codices, Tyranids really have only one or two competitive list builds that actually hold up against other armies. It'd be nice to play a list that doesn't involve taking costly flyrants as your one and only source of skyfire, and spamming troop tervigons because they are the only troops who won't get instant-killed by everything.

More so, I would like models to actually work the way they are supposed to, according to the codex. I am a relatively new player to 40k, and the Tyranids were gifted to me as my first army. Nothing pissed me off more than reading about all these awesomely powerful creatures and then playing with them and seeing how easy they got murdered, or how ineffective their unique powers were (Yes, some of that was my own tactical wrong-doing, but i have learned better now).

There are so many units in the codex that I have always wanted to play but can never justify using because of:
a) disproportional point costs
b) they just don't work the way the lore intended them to

And would a F*CKING AP 3 GUN be too much to ask for!!!??? It's a little embarrassing that the only gun with a low AP in the codex is a corrosive spitball that a carnifex can spew 12".

One thing I would really like to see, is very unique codex psychic powers. My friend plays CSM and I look at all the crazy powers his Daemon Prince gets access to, and I think it'd be very neat to have totally unique Tyranid psyker powers that Hive Tyrants and Tervigons and the like can get access too. Especially since a good portion of the current codex powers are now available in better forms in the BRB psyker disciplines.

Other cool ideas would be to have poisoned SHOOTING attacks, such as the Dark Eldar. Tyranid lore can easily justify this.

My final idea came to me after reading the CSM codex. Depending on what mark they take, CSM can recieve bonuses for belonging to one of the four gods of Chaos. I think something similar can easily be done with the Hive Fleets in the codex lore. For example, Hive Fleet Gorgon was known to be the most biologically-adaptable Hive Fleet yet encountered. So if you declared your Tyranids were from Gorgon, they'd recieve some kind of bonus. Bonuses would vary from things like +1 A, S, T, Sv, etc. I'm not saying replicate the Chaos Daemon marks exactly, but something similar can be devised.

All in all, I think Tyranids have so much potential for their next codex that can be easily justified with it's unique and extensive lore. I'd like to see some major changes, after all, the Hivemind is known to adapt.

J0kerrMT wrote:
Just like all the other codexs...try to make everything a valid selection..meaning change things in the codex to raise and lower units as needed...make this a balanced game, or at least as close as you can get....

This. I would like a codex where everything is a valid choice. Honestly, this would likely help GW and model sales too (they could sell a bit of everything)

Remove synapse altogether, it restrict's the army horribly, and unnecessarily

More FMCs, possibly less powerful options to the Hive Tyrant. Maybe a cheaper Harpy.

Nerf the doom. he is way too good and has no real weakness.

I'm not going to trot out points and stat tweaks, because it's been done to death.

Tyranids, as a whole, need flavour. The army, while having some good units and with 6th edition a few potential powerful builds, just feels incredibly boring to play. While Cruddace has thrown in some special rules, they tend to be on underused or non used units. There's a lot of stuff that could use upgrades or general rules that reflect their fluff.

For example, Carnifexes. They're described as living engines of destruction, living battering rams, heavily armoured shock assault troops, and various other awesome catch phrases that make them sound beastly in assault. The best line is 'while a Carnifexes charge is slow to get moving, the best way to defend against it to be somewhere else when it arrives'. Yet Carnifexes are altogether ordinary in assault. Low attacks, low WS, and reliance on scything talons to land hits. Crushing Claws are pretty worthless. Hormagaunts are described as being without number, relentless attack waves that self replicate by laying eggs. Genestealers are shock assault troops who burst from sewers and earthworks to tear apart enemies unaware, yet only Ymgarl Genestealers can do this.

Since GW seems to be on a special rule kick for depicting the more 'cinematic' aspects of the game, here's a few suggestions.

Carnifexes Living Battering Ram. They get D3 Hammer of Wrath attackes for each model in the brood. These attacks are Rending attacks.

Carnifexes gain the Armoured Shell upgrade.

This represents their charge. A single Carnifex will hurt when it connects. A brood can be devastating. The Armoured Shell upgrade represents the heavily armoured shock assault types used in boarding actions described in fluff.

Hormagaunts. Brood Nest upgrade. An AV10/10/10 building with 3 structure points, placed with Infiltration rules. Confers Synapse to Hormagaunt units within 12". If the owning Hormagaunt unit is reduced below 25% casualties, it may be removed as if destroyed, and in the Tyranid players next turn, a new Hormagaunt brood is deployed from the Brood Nest with D6 less models than it started with. This brood may move and assault as normal on the turn it arrives, but cannot claim objectives for the rest of the game. If the Brood Nest is destroyed, the owning Hormagaunt unit, either the original or any replacement, loses this ability.

This represents the Hormagaunts egg laying, and a way to add replenishing Hormagaunts without resorting to shoehorning in a 'Horvigon'. It also gives the opponent the chance to hunt the source of the replicating unit down.

Genestealers can deploy via 3 types of deployment - Dormant (as per Ymgarl genestealers), via Outflank or as regular Infiltrators.

Regular genestealers are shown in fluff doing what Ymgarls do - not letting regular units do it is just odd.

Rules like this would go a long way in adding some needed flavour to Tyranids.

 Evileyes wrote:
Remove synapse altogether, it restrict's the army horribly, and unnecessarily

I feel like this is a terrible idea... Perhaps it needs to work differently but it's been a part of Tyranids pretty much the whole time. Arguing that they shouldn't have it sounds to me like arguing that Eldar should get ridiculously tough well-armoured Troops choices. It's part of using that army.

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:

 Evileyes wrote:
Remove synapse altogether, it restrict's the army horribly, and unnecessarily

I feel like this is a terrible idea... Perhaps it needs to work differently but it's been a part of Tyranids pretty much the whole time. Arguing that they shouldn't have it sounds to me like arguing that Eldar should get ridiculously tough well-armoured Troops choices. It's part of using that army.

It feels like it's a terrible idea because it is a terrible idea. Synapse is one of the defining characteristics of a Tyranid force, and one of the little balancing acts you play with when making an army - too much synapse in case some die? Just enough to fit in some other units? Less than desirable to fit in even more non-synapse stuff? It's a good mechanic for Tyranids.

Synapse needs some work though. At the moment, it's just... there. Some units get a pretty good buff for being outside of it as well.

They could (literally) go back to square one with synapse and do something akin to the Epic: Hive War expansion. This built on the old Epic system of needing to give orders to units each turn. However for Tyranids, the total number of orders were based on the number of synapse creatures you have alive. Without instructions, most broods would revert to their base instincts of Rampage, Hunt or Feed.

I think that rather than just checking if units are in synapse range each turn, it would be more interesting to see synapse units generate a random number of 'synapse points', which could then be used to override base instincts or in some cases 'overcharge' certain units (giving them FNP, EW or other abilities). Not only would this add some flavour to the Tyranid army, it would further encourage protection of synapse creatures as losing them would directly diminish control of your army.

A good Tyranid player would be one that knew how to use the instinctive behaviour of units effectively without relying on getting a certain number of points per turn.

Looking at the other codeces for 6th, if I was a betting man I'd lay odds on synapse being the key element of the new dex. They've tried to develop the key schtick of all the other armies: Tau got droned out, CSM have chaos boons and marks galore, daemons got instability, etc.

For me the obvious way to make nids unique is to utilise synapse, allowing synapse beasts to but synapse options, e.g. range extensions, ability to make units do certain things, etc. The most logical rule that does not apply to nids is feel no pain. Individual nids have absolutely no sense of self so they would not be phased by injuries and synapse creatures will presumably drive them on until they are literally incapacitated. It would have to cost, obviously to be fair.

For me nids need variety. How many other armies have so many totally vanilla units or ones with really, really limited options. Nids are supposed to be infinitely adaptable. I expect to see some sort of generic options list, possibly one set of biomporph upgrades for troops, one for MCs, etc.

They can get a lot of mileage from allowing simple changes like giving hive guard weapon options, like an anti-infantry weapon or a flakk option.

I think nids need options for bigger units of certain creatures like zoanthropes.

I love the idea of venomthropes as unit upgrades, it makes a huge amount of sense. Give them a buff for assault, say allowing them to act as offensive grenades.

I want to see options for inv saves, I think they should cost but they ought to be available. A CSM character can buy a sigil of corruption (4+ inv) for 25 pts. I would like to see tyrants at least able to buy an inv save.

The nerf of fleet means that nids need something to allow their assault troops to close more quickly, such as the sensible idea of making them beasts.

NIds also must have a fortification with weapons they can fire. Having no fortifications bars them from the other main innovation of 6th ed. They need a couple of fortifiation options with skyfiring bio-weapons.

I really hope the people at GW is reading all of this... These are some awesome ideas!

I really like the Codex as is but if there were changes.....

Tyrannofex needs to less points. Maybe 20 less.

Warriors drop by 5 points. Make em worth the risk of ID.

Carnifex add a wound or 2 or drop 15 to 20 points off.

Genestealers should drop by 2 points each.

Harpy needs 1 more wound.

Some type of anti flying unit.

Nids that can man defense guns.

Increase synapse range by 6 Inches.

Raise the doom by 15 points. (but if you do that Marbo should go up too.)

The thing I would like to see the most is removal of the synapse rules as they exist and turn them into standard leadership type rules instead. If a unit of lesser 'nids is within X distance of a synapse creature then they can use its leadership for all necessary tests instead of their own, so that having the warriors in there supporting the more mindless masses still makes sense.

I used to love my ripper guants "without end" a couple 'nid books ago. I wouldn't mind seeing that option come back, but of course it would have a cost associated with it, whether as a bonus option for a tervigon, or just an option for the unit itself. I think it used to be +2 points per model if memory serves, and it doesn't always.

Generally I don't expect too many big changes for the 'nids since the overall power leve lin the books is being toned down significantly.

Skriker

I thought boneswords already ignored armor? why would you want AP2 if you already have it?

The difference is +1 on the vehicle damage chart. Ignoring Armor doesn't give you that bonus.

HQ:
*Swarmlord: Instead of Fearless, allows units within 18" to choose to pass or fail. SitW also goes to 18".
*Tyrants: Heavy Venom Cannon goes to Ap. 3, no reduction to damage table. Drop base points by 10, increase Wings cost by 10.
*Prime: 10 points cheaper.
*Parasite of Mortrex: Toughness 5, no points change.
*Tervigon: No changes needed
*Tyrant Guard: -5 points

ELITES:
*Hive Guard: BS 3, can snapfire at units out of LoS, Ignore Cover. Impaler Cannons: The living Ammo always adds +1 to the to-hit roll, even when snapfiring. This allows Hive Guard to be better anti air but worse at shooting Ground targets out of LoS, a fair trade I think.
*Venomthrope: Change to shrouded instead of 5+, or maybe stealth. Give IC rule and ability to break up squad.
*Lictors: Give Ymgarls rule to them for deployment assault, option to infiltrate. -5 points
*Deathleaper: As above, and -20 points, and ability to replace one lictor in squad.
*Zoanthropes: No change needed
*Doom of Malan'tai: No change needed.
*Pyrovore: Give Torrent to gun, -5 points and no Acid Maw.
*Ymgarls: +2 points, Assault grenades

TROOPS:
*Gants: Strangleweb goes to Strength 4, spinefists/Spike rifles free.
*Hormagants: -1 point, and -1 point to their upgrades (Toxin/Adrenal)
*Warriors: 2 wounds, T5.
*Genestealers: -2 ppm, give Broodlord 15 point ability to give squad Frag grenades.
*Rippers: Can contest, -2 points per model, Beasts.

FAST ATTACK:
*Gargoyles: No changes needed.
*Harpy: -15 points
*Shrikes: 4+ save, 5, 2 wounds, +5 points
*SkySlashers: See Rippers
*Raveners: 2 wounds, T5, access to Toxin/Adrenal
*Spore Mines: Can Deepstrike, scattering even on hit.

HEAVY SUPPORT:

*Trygon: Prime Upgrade grants ML1 psyker
*Mawloc: Scything Talons, give them the Trygons gun
*Biovores: No change
*Carnifex: -20 points
*Tyrannofex: -20 points, Rupture Cannon Ap. 3, BS 4
*Old One Eye: Can join Carnifex squad, grants IWND, -10 points.

*Mycetic Spore: Toughness 5

Wargear/Rules:

Venom Cannons: No Damage chart modifier, Ap 3
Barbed Strangler: Ap 4, Strength test for unit or pinned.
Deathspitters: Ap. 4
All Synapse Creatures are Pskers: ML 0 unless they have a higher ML (gives +1 to deny, and vulnerable to psychic checks)

New Psychic Powers:
Primaris: Onslaught: 24" Blessing, target unit may run, and then shoot OR assault
1. Catalyst grants +4 FNP, still 12" Blessing
2. Psychic Scream: 12" Malediction Unit targeted takes a LD. check (2d6), wounds if fails, and can't overwatch, must take Pinning check
3. Paroxysm: 24" Malediction, unit hit can only snap fire and is WS 1, must take pinning check.
4. The Horror: Self-Blessing, Any unit attempting to shoot the model (or unit) must take a Ld. check first, if fails may not shoot at all and must then take a Pinning Check.
5. Domination of Will: Malediction: All enemy units within 24" recieve -1 Ld. and -1 to Deny the Witch Rolls (DtW takes effect AFTER trying to Deny the "Domination" power)
6. Presense of the Hive Mind: ML 2, Self-Blessing. SitW and Synapse extend range by 12" on this model, gains +1 to DtW roll.

Note on powers above: Zoeys get Warp Lance, and 1 power. Doom keeps Cataclysm

Warlord Table:

1. Unknown Strategy: May modify reserve rolls by 1, + or -
2. Alien Strategy: One non-Warlord Nid unit may outflank, and rerolls side to determine where it comes in. (Swarmlord)
3. Aura of Despair: Enemy ICs in challenge with WL must roll Ld. check, if failed can't attack
4. Leader of Beasts: Warlords Synapse bubble grows by 6"
5. Bane of Sentience: Infantry in SitW range of Warlord are at -1 Ld.
6. Eater of Worlds: Warlord can score objectives

I really like the warlord traits for tyranids above, very appropriate!

Especially the Eater of Worlds. I would like to see one that lets the warlord put one or two units of Troops into ongoing reserve when they are wiped out (or maybe reduced to 10% or less of starting size).

The name Leader of Beasts could also be used here (mainly because I can't think of a better one!).

 jifel wrote:

All Synapse Creatures are Pskers: ML 0 unless they have a higher ML

If they have no mastery level, they can't hold warp charges and thus can't cast powers. What's the point of this?

 Wilytank wrote:

 jifel wrote:

All Synapse Creatures are Pskers: ML 0 unless they have a higher ML

If they have no mastery level, they can't hold warp charges and thus can't cast powers. What's the point of this?

Deny the Witch perhaps?

Makes sense that a creature with Synapse has a direct connection to the psychic prowess of the Hive Mind and can therefore Deny the Witch on a 5+ at the least.

Then why not just give them that ability? Like Adamantium will.

 Wilytank wrote:
Then why not just give them that ability? Like Adamantium will.

I'd be fine with that! However, it would make sense for them to be psykers for the purpose of special Rules, like GK anti-psychic stuff.

Been some suggestions I like, others I dislike but have enjoyed this discussion quite a bit.

Isengard said something that really made me start thinking when he mentioned tyranids taking fortification. Now, I just don't seem them really using fortifications, tyranids are a constant pressing the attack army, fluffwise. Even if they were defending something like spawning pools I imagine mobile troops and caretakers, although I did like the spore towers Forge World came up with. But those aren't fortifications either. But, what if tyranids developed a creature that was something like a mobile Aegis Defense line, to hide other creatures behind it as they pressed forward. A big, tough creature that sucks up firepower because the things behind it are protected. Or, well, they could, as others have mentioned, make Venomthropes an upgrade to a unit so they cannot be so easily killed.

I really would like to see Carnifex get an ability that if they kill a model on their initiative, they get to make an extra attack, if that kills then they get to make another until they fail to kill. I think its the BA Furioso Dreadnought that gets an ability similar to that, due to its claws. Seems very in keeping with the Carnifex fluff. Or maybe on each following combat they get 1 extra attack for each model they killed in the previous combat. Too much record keeping for my taste there though. And they need to be 2+ armor and 5+ invulnerable. Simply silly how easy they are to kill compared to the old days.

Certain synapse creatures gain eternal warrior. At the very least the Hive Tyrant should have it, but Warriors would be bitchin' with it.
Warriors in general need a massive buff, at least 1 of the following: Superior toughness, better armor save, an invul save or eternal warrior.

Also Genestealers should be able to assault straight out of Outflank/Infiltrate.

Maybe have different levels of Synapse.


Synapse(1): If this model is in Synapse range, it gains Fearless and is not subject to Instinctive Behavior.

Synapse(2): If this model is in Synapse range, it gains Fearless, Furious Charge, and is not subject to Instinctive Behavior.

Synapse(3): If this model is in Synapse range, it gains Fearless, Furious Charge, Eternal Warrior, and is not subject to Instinctive Behavior.

Synapse Creature: All friendly units within 6" of this model are in Synapse range.


So things like Gants etc would be Synapse(1), Warriors and the like would be Synapse(2), and big things like Carnifexs would be Synapse(3)

 jifel wrote:
New Psychic Powers:
Primaris: Onslaught: 24" Blessing, target unit may run, and then shoot OR assault
1. Catalyst grants +4 FNP, still 12" Blessing
2. Psychic Scream: 12" Malediction Unit targeted takes a LD. check (2d6), wounds if fails, and can't overwatch, must take Pinning check
3. Paroxysm: 24" Malediction, unit hit can only snap fire and is WS 1, must take pinning check.
4. The Horror: Self-Blessing, Any unit attempting to shoot the model (or unit) must take a Ld. check first, if fails may not shoot at all and must then take a Pinning Check.
5. Domination of Will: Malediction: All enemy units within 24" recieve -1 Ld. and -1 to Deny the Witch Rolls (DtW takes effect AFTER trying to Deny the "Domination" power)
6. Presense of the Hive Mind: ML 2, Self-Blessing. SitW and Synapse extend range by 12" on this model, gains +1 to DtW roll.

Note on powers above: Zoeys get Warp Lance, and 1 power. Doom keeps Cataclysm

Warlord Table:

1. Unknown Strategy: May modify reserve rolls by 1, + or -
2. Alien Strategy: One non-Warlord Nid unit may outflank, and rerolls side to determine where it comes in. (Swarmlord)
3. Aura of Despair: Enemy ICs in challenge with WL must roll Ld. check, if failed can't attack
4. Leader of Beasts: Warlords Synapse bubble grows by 6"
5. Bane of Sentience: Infantry in SitW range of Warlord are at -1 Ld.
6. Eater of Worlds: Warlord can score objectives

Those are fantastic. Though I'd say Zoanthropes also get Warp Field, either as an inherint save or special rule. Without it they're far too fragile. Also, The Horror never works. it didn't work when it was free for Hive Tyrants and doesn't work now that you pay for it. Swap it for something worthwhile.

I like the idea of different levels of synapse interaction. Something similar could operate for the brood telepathy of Genestealers/Broodlords/Ymgarls, giving them different effects.

 -Loki- wrote:

 jifel wrote:
New Psychic Powers:
Primaris: Onslaught: 24" Blessing, target unit may run, and then shoot OR assault
1. Catalyst grants +4 FNP, still 12" Blessing
2. Psychic Scream: 12" Malediction Unit targeted takes a LD. check (2d6), wounds if fails, and can't overwatch, must take Pinning check
3. Paroxysm: 24" Malediction, unit hit can only snap fire and is WS 1, must take pinning check.
4. The Horror: Self-Blessing, Any unit attempting to shoot the model (or unit) must take a Ld. check first, if fails may not shoot at all and must then take a Pinning Check.
5. Domination of Will: Malediction: All enemy units within 24" recieve -1 Ld. and -1 to Deny the Witch Rolls (DtW takes effect AFTER trying to Deny the "Domination" power)
6. Presense of the Hive Mind: ML 2, Self-Blessing. SitW and Synapse extend range by 12" on this model, gains +1 to DtW roll.

Note on powers above: Zoeys get Warp Lance, and 1 power. Doom keeps Cataclysm

Warlord Table:

1. Unknown Strategy: May modify reserve rolls by 1, + or -
2. Alien Strategy: One non-Warlord Nid unit may outflank, and rerolls side to determine where it comes in. (Swarmlord)
3. Aura of Despair: Enemy ICs in challenge with WL must roll Ld. check, if failed can't attack
4. Leader of Beasts: Warlords Synapse bubble grows by 6"
5. Bane of Sentience: Infantry in SitW range of Warlord are at -1 Ld.
6. Eater of Worlds: Warlord can score objectives

Those are fantastic. Though I'd say Zoanthropes also get Warp Field, either as an inherint save or special rule. Without it they're far too fragile. Also, The Horror never works. it didn't work when it was free for Hive Tyrants and doesn't work now that you pay for it. Swap it for something worthwhile.

I'm assuming that Warp Field is a special rule, same as now. But, I think the horror would work better vs SHOOTING attacks, as versus assaults its hopelessly pointless. For shooting, we actually don't want them shooting us!

 Grey Templar wrote:
Maybe have different levels of Synapse.


Synapse(1): If this model is in Synapse range, it gains Fearless and is not subject to Instinctive Behavior.

Synapse(2): If this model is in Synapse range, it gains Fearless, Furious Charge, and is not subject to Instinctive Behavior.

Synapse(3): If this model is in Synapse range, it gains Fearless, Furious Charge, Eternal Warrior, and is not subject to Instinctive Behavior.

Synapse Creature: All friendly models within 6" of this model are in Synapse range. This model also has the Synapse(3) special rule.



So things like Gants etc would be Synapse(1), Warriors and the like would be Synapse(2), and big things like Carnifexs would be Synapse(3)

Bump it up to 12" range, and it's golden.

Warriors are Synapse Creatures though, so why would they be Synapse (2) and not Synapse (3)?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jifel wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 jifel wrote:
New Psychic Powers:
Primaris: Onslaught: 24" Blessing, target unit may run, and then shoot OR assault
1. Catalyst grants +4 FNP, still 12" Blessing
2. Psychic Scream: 12" Malediction Unit targeted takes a LD. check (2d6), wounds if fails, and can't overwatch, must take Pinning check
3. Paroxysm: 24" Malediction, unit hit can only snap fire and is WS 1, must take pinning check.
4. The Horror: Self-Blessing, Any unit attempting to shoot the model (or unit) must take a Ld. check first, if fails may not shoot at all and must then take a Pinning Check.
5. Domination of Will: Malediction: All enemy units within 24" recieve -1 Ld. and -1 to Deny the Witch Rolls (DtW takes effect AFTER trying to Deny the "Domination" power)
6. Presense of the Hive Mind: ML 2, Self-Blessing. SitW and Synapse extend range by 12" on this model, gains +1 to DtW roll.

Note on powers above: Zoeys get Warp Lance, and 1 power. Doom keeps Cataclysm

Warlord Table:

1. Unknown Strategy: May modify reserve rolls by 1, + or -
2. Alien Strategy: One non-Warlord Nid unit may outflank, and rerolls side to determine where it comes in. (Swarmlord)
3. Aura of Despair: Enemy ICs in challenge with WL must roll Ld. check, if failed can't attack
4. Leader of Beasts: Warlords Synapse bubble grows by 6"
5. Bane of Sentience: Infantry in SitW range of Warlord are at -1 Ld.
6. Eater of Worlds: Warlord can score objectives

Those are fantastic. Though I'd say Zoanthropes also get Warp Field, either as an inherint save or special rule. Without it they're far too fragile. Also, The Horror never works. it didn't work when it was free for Hive Tyrants and doesn't work now that you pay for it. Swap it for something worthwhile.

I'm assuming that Warp Field is a special rule, same as now. But, I think the horror would work better vs SHOOTING attacks, as versus assaults its hopelessly pointless. For shooting, we actually don't want them shooting us!

I understand the theory, I'm just saying it doesn't work. Leaderships are too high in 40k to make it at all reliable.

 -Loki- wrote:


*snip*

I understand the theory, I'm just saying it doesn't work. Leaderships are too high in 40k to make it at all reliable.

Quite possibly not. I'd hope in the next codex that our "thing" becomes Leadership games (as Nids should be) and it actually could be useful if you get off a few -1 Ld. for any reason

 Grey Templar wrote:
Maybe have different levels of Synapse.


Synapse Creature: All friendly models within 6" of this model are in Synapse range. This model also has the Synapse(3) special rule.

I would change this to read All friendly *units* within 6" of this model are in synapse range. Hard to get a bunch of large units of gaunts/gants within 6" of a limited number of synapse models.

Skriker

Right, I meant units.

rothrich wrote:
1. I would like to see synapse phase out. It just limits what Nid players can do and makes it difficult to build small points lists

2. I would like to see some kind of flying monster that is worth the points. Flyrants just are not as good as a walking tyrant with tons of firepower and hive guard of equal points.

3. Rolling reserves sounds like the worst plan ever. It is hard enough to beat the swarm as it is the last thing the nids need more free models to put on the board.

4. an invulnerable save of some kind or another. It sucks to see that Expensive monster die in one hit from a force weapon and not get any kind of save.

1) Synapse is part of the flavor of the army and i feel it would stop them being unique

2) Flyrants should give skyfire to any unit in synapse of it

3) Rolling reserves is bad idea because if your opponets army wipe the unit out on turn 1,2 then they will again so your just giving away free KP's

4) I think the whole codex it fine the way it is other then everyunit is over priced so i would say everything modle in the codex should have there base points cost drop by 1/3 othe then
Carnifex and Warriors which should have there base points cost drop by 1/2.
Gargoyles can stay the same there OP as is!
All Biomorphs stay the same price

- Changes to Synapse similar to 4th Ed, with some sort of protection against ID, maybe not EW but something along those lines.
- Lictors and Carnifexes are bought as a squad but operate independantly.
- Large points reduction on Carnifexes and Old One Eye.
- Lictors can assault when they arrive
- Pyrovore has additional rules, maybe Fleshbane and Torrent on the flamer.
- Improved Warrior stats
- More armoury choices for MCs such as the Scythe Tail, Enhanced Senses or Symbiote Rippers etc
- An AA variant of the Biovore wouldn't be a bad idea.
- Rippers reduced to 10ppm and don't die when out of Synapse range.

I would like to see the SitW have the same effect as Runes of Warding. But within range of SitW, not board wide. This matches fluff because the presence of Tyranids in the nearby atmosphere is said to block other psychers from being able to control the warp effectively.

I have other suggestions, but I'm going to limit myself...

Why not a completely blank slate army.....

have the unique characters for each section then have a single MC HQ with basic stats that you buy everything for including ability upgrades, weapons, special rules, and stat upgrades.

a FA with the same idea but for unit rather than individual.


a troop choice with the same idea but for unit rather than individual.

A heavy with the same idea

you get the picture.... Granted there would be basic inclusions on some of the Blank Slates to make them what their position is.

plus for each section you have a toned down MC HQ choice as the "blank slate"

I enjoy playing with Warriors/Trygon Prime but there are so many ways that they should be better.

then instead of warlord traits for the army we have overall army rules such as:

1- Tunnelers (whole army can tunnel)
2- Fearless (everything is fearless)
3- Extended synapse (18" synapse range)
4- Psychers (every unit is psycher)
5- Stealthy (every unit has stealth) (for those that dont realize that would be an auto 6+ cover save)
6- Sneaky (every unit infiltrates)

These overall army rules would cost pts. Frankly this way it shows the versitility of the Tyranids...

Nids need almost a complete overhaul.

I had so many ideas on how to fix the codex i actually made my own because the list became pages on every one of these threads.

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?lei626dkwd5zxvt (formatting gets screwed up by Mediafire's previewer. Download to get the right formatting.

Sufficent to say: Remove about 1/4 of the units, add massive customization options to almost every unit, bring back Genestealer viable armies, lots of outflank/scout/infiltrate upgrades, Tervigon removed in favor of Endless Swarm, buff most up or lesser used units, and move slots around (HG to HS, Ymargl merged into genestealers, Lictor moved to FA).

Nid tactics should be about overwhelming defensive lines and putting too many targets close to the enemy for them to deal with. Current nids are, for some reason, have almost no ability to overwhelm lines unless they walk up the field over 3+ turns. Genestealers used to have some fun tactics with infiltrating 50+ genestealers, but that isnt enough anymore. Nids need to change the playstyle to be more than just tervigon spam march+ FHT, repeat.

My list of things:

1. Lictors having the old style pheremone trail, so +1 reserves (doesnt stack with other lictors/deathleaper), and gives friendly nid models withing 12" PE against enemies the lictor is xx distance from
2. Bring back the old 4e biomorph style upgrades
3. Venom Cannons; I actually think the -1 on table can help, but give it a split profile, so regular would be S7 AP4 Assault (2/3), or S6 AP4 small blast, while heavy would be S9 AP3 assault (3/4) or S8 AP3 small blast. Another idea for them is instead of flat -1 on damage table, have it count any Explodes! result as Immobilized instead
4. Increase venomthrope unit size to 6, and let them split off a-la wolf guard/royal court
5. Give the Tyrranofex bs4, or the option to purchase it, and give the rupture cannon an ordinance like ability, and either increase the range of fleshborer hive, or make it twin-linked and shred
6. Either allow harpy to take a set of TL-BLW, or have there be a dedicated anti-air variant of some sort, that is only allowed to fire at regular BS at fliers.
7. Bring malanthropes into the regular codex, drop them by 20 points or so, and make them an HQ-but-not-an-HQ like DA techmarines and IG techpriests/ministorum priests
8. Beef up the codex psychic powers to make them more viable
a. The Horror - becomes malediction, and units with ATSKNF are now susceptible to fear USR until next tyranid turn
b. Leech Essence - stay the same, but allow the HT to exceed normal max wounds
c. Paroxysm - nothing needed, an awesome power
d. Psychic Scream - same, but force the Ld test to be at -1 or something, to differenciate it from the BRB version
e. Catalyst - fine as is, though maybe make it FNP (4+)
f. Dominion - fine as is I suppose, but maybe allow it to chain-reaction, so if another synapse creature is in the AOE, then its synapse increases to 18
g. Onslaught - slight adjustment: allows models to EITHER (1) shoot and run in shooting phase or (2) run and assault in same turn. Must declare which is being done before casting
h. Aura of Despair - Keep it the same. perhaps allow it to override stubborn?
i. Hypnotic Gaze - Make it so the model basically acts like it had denied a challenge, so no Ld to squad, cannot attack, cannot make use of it's special abilities in CC, etc. Dude's just chilling there taking in the sights.
j/k. Zoanthrope powers are fine, don't know anyone who would argue that.
9. Indescribable Horror forces fear tests to be taken at -2, in addition to what it already does
10. Allow primes to take wings so it can join shrikes, tail so it can join raveners, and perhaps make them 2-3 per HQ slot
11. Hormagaunts move like beasts, and give them a rule where if the pass an I test, they strike at initiative when charging through cover
12. Make spike rifles and spinefists free, increase the strength of strangleweb to 3, and make it 1/5
13. Increase max squad size of termagants/hormagaunts to 50
14. Bring back without number, in that any unit of termagants, hormagaunts, or gargoyles that does not have any upgrades whatsoever is placed in ongoing reserves if wiped out
15. Genestealers strike at initiative when charging through cover, and bring back the old scuttlers upgrade, because it was hilarious
16. there are a million and a half suggestions to make carnifexes better, pick the most balanced one and apply it
17. bring back the old style spores for biovores only. standard spore mines have the current profile
18. change trygon tunnels to allow beasts, and allow them to assault the turn the arrive from it
19. Allow mawloc's TFtD to strike models on every level of ruins simultaneously and/or distribute wounds as if it were barrage, and give it the red terror's swallow hole ability, which IIRC was if all of it's attacks connected, it could chose a single model and remove it instead of making it's regular attacks.
20. Allow spores to "assault" by allowing it to drag anything hit by its ripper tentacles into CC with itself. [OHNOTENTACLES!!!]
21. Rippers drop in points, get rid of mindless, and sky-slashers becomes an upgrade. Tunnel swarms may assault on deep strike, but half their charge range.
22. Swarmlord's SItW extends to 18", swarm leader gives night vision/PE/FC to a friendly tyranid unit within 18",
bonesabres cause an extra wound to models with EW
23. OOE - WS4, T7, 5W, and allow him to join carnifex broods as if he were an IC
24. Doom gets a points increase, but those pesky sandbags wont stop soul sucking anymore
25. Make parasite cause fear, and have it's implant attack work on a 5+, because making pesky necron overlords 'splode into rippers is hilarious, and improbable. Would they be fleshmetal rippers then?
26. Bring in brood nests back (Allows any non-MC unit to infiltrate for a cost based on # of wounds in unit)

I think that's it.. sorry for the wall of text. I'm fully well aware that quite a few of these are VERY powerful, and would of course require balancing.

Edit: Typo's galore!!

I would like to see tervigons abilities include hormagaunts, but have the tervigon moved to Heavy Support. This makes sense because it's supposed to be similar to a Land Raider, and making it buff/spawn hormagaunts would make it powerful enough to compete in the Heavy slot. This way it's also not scoring, so it's not as crazy OP.

Mid-sized bugs besides Hive Guard and Tyrant Guard should all have a similar statline, based around Warriors: WS5 BS3 S5 T5 W2 I5 A3 LD7 4+
Shrikes are just warriors with wings, so ought to be a 4+
Raveners go 5+ but gain +1A +1I
Pyrovore has 3+ and a heavy flamer, really he should just be cheaper
Biovore can get an AA spore at s7, or something like s1 ap2 mines. More mines for this guy is all he needs to shine, but he should pay for the profile.
Lictors ought to gain i7, a4, 3+, rending on 5+, character status, and forced to operate as solos.
Hive guard can keep their current statline, but perhaps buy skyfire ammo or a different weapon - they would keep their current homing/No Cover rules for all weapons.
Venomthropes can pretty much stay as they are, possibly with an "enemies within 6 inches take T tests or suffer a wound w/ no saves allowed" added to make them scarier if ignored.

I know some people don't like the t5/2w solution, but do the math - it's 12 bolter hits to kill 1 warrior; they stay exactly the same in durability to small arms as a terminator (and their t4/3w profile), and only lose out against autocannons/MLs/HBs/AssCannons versus terminators in durability. They gain survivability against plasma/lascannons/melta though, so it's about a fair tradeoff. This would make it possible to have, for the most part, an all mid-size bug army that's a little less vulnerable to ID and Force Weapons (wounded less often), and is completely viable so long as you pack a strong core of warrior synapse.


The other changes I would do are fairly minimal - reduce points costs of Rippers, hormagaunts/termagants (and their upgrades), Carnifexes (to like 125), T-fexes, Harpies, and Hive Tyrants. Make a good psychic power chart, with FnP as a primaris, but without Iron Arm. Give everyone an option to buy assault grenades. Make genestealers 4+ and cost 18 (then the ymgarl upgrade is only 5 points, only for squad sizes 10 and under; remove ymgarls as a unit as well as the morphing statline).

These changes would be pretty fair for nids - all in all, I don't think you could make them immune to ID because DE would lose out on some of their coolest wargear meant to kill nids, and the only other real problem is GK, who should just get toned down next codex instead of making nids OP to deal with GK's. I mean, how often do you challenge a lone librarian with your Hive Tyrant and the libby lives to tell the tale?

Here's the gist of my ideas: Customizability returns in a big way. The Tyranid army can do just about anything as long as you're willing to sink in the points for upgrades and carefully consider which class of weapon you want. The Tyranids are supposed to be the most adaptable, varied force on the battlefield, so this will reflect it, an army with options. You don't have units so much as you have templates to mix and match biomorphs and weapons.

More fliers, especially a dedicated air superiority creature, a true bomber, and a gunship type creature or perhaps more options for the harpy to turn it into a very customizable FMC. I'd still like a true heavy flier that didn't need an HQ slot though.

A biovore sized up to launch those bigger forgeworld spores would rock.

The return of specialist spore mine rounds for Biovores (and the upsized ones) would be awesome.

Regeneration lets you stand back up on a six if the unit that has it bites the dust.

Armor save improving biomorphs are now nearly universal, and all synapse creatures can get invulnerable save granting biomorphs or in a zoanthrope's case, improve theirs by one (which the DoM has by default in exchange for a price bump). The standard ++ save granting biomorph will be warp shield, which grants a 5++ save, but tyrants can get Warp barrier which grants a 4++, which the Swarmlord has. Yes, even gaunts can pay to have a 5+ armor save if you want that for some reason. And yes, you could have 3+ save, 5++ save warriors, it will be hella pricey though.

Stat increasing biomorphs to improve a statline are now in, want a S7 T7 Carnifex with five wounds? If you have the points, feel free! While you could bump up the Statline across the board, it will run you for a lot of points for upgrades. And yes, Ymgarl mutations do stack with added biomorphs, but again it's pricey. Biomorphs that grant USRs are also now available, want FNP, IWND, Skyfire, Interceptor, or armorbane (only for monstrous creatures to prevent hormies from carving up land raiders)? Pony up the points.

Old biomorphs like Adamantine tusks (which become the generalist +1 charge attack), Scythe tails, Mace tails, and such make a triumphant return. Praise be unto the hive mind!

Tfexes are BS4 (same price) since they're evolved to be gun platforms. Acid spray becomes AP2, as does the Rupture cannon and if both rupture cannon shots hit, it gets lance on the second impact to reflect the melting effect of the tick. Fleshborer hives gain rending to represent the sheer weight of shots they fire, an increase in strength (to five), and range out to 24' so you don't have to be directly in the other guy's face. The spines and thorax swarm become twin linked on the Tyrannofex. Tfexes can also buy rapid regeneration if they have bought Regeneration before hand (it'll be hella costly though). The thorax swarm and spine can also be swapped out with other weapons so you can better kit your Tyrannofex, want to take down tanks? Swap out the swarm and spines for a twin linked HVC. Want more dakka without templates? Shuffle out the thorax swarm for brain leech devourers. Want to kill aircraft? Buy the skyfire (and if you want to, the interceptor biomorph) and load up on twinlinked venom cannons. Customizability is the name of the game. The Tfex does become more expensive, but it essentially becomes like your battlewagon, a ranged workhorse unit.

Tyrant guards come with FNP as standard to better reflect their fluff, perhaps requiring a price increase. Tyrant guards can get wings and benefit from FMC movement rules to keep up with flyrants or armored shell for walking tyrants, and can take warp shield if they want. They can also gain access to shooting weapons so that they can better support a shooty tyrant, and like their melee weapons they only get half as many as their boss monster does.

Warriors go down in price and gain many more options. Gone are the days of "only one warrior in a brood may have this" or "all brood members must have the same weapon", you can now mix and match weapons and biomorphs as you see fit (although with the death of musical wounds this isn't quite as potent as it used to be). The same goes for Shrikes and Raveners, the latter of whom can for a small price pay for synapse and get access to delicious warp shields.

Spinefists now reduce termagaunt prices by 1 to better reflect the fact that they are a downgrade from fleshborers, Stranglewebs can now be taken by the entire brood at about 4 points per model and are bumped up to S3 to not suck. Spike rifles are now no longer pointless and have a range bumped up to 24' and are now assault 2 to justify paying more for them. Devourers on gaunts are fine as is. You can also buy an upgrade to give a gaunt mob a "node" to increase their leadership to 8-9 (not sure which would be better) for improved function outside of synapse. Both gaunts can pay a bit more for the old "without number" rule that lets them keep on coming.

I'm not sure if Hormagaunts should have to pay for rending claws or not if it would mean having to ditch scything talons. Hormies can now also take frag spines to solve the perrenial issue of dying hilariously to anything in cover, and have a Horvigon now. Adrenal glands cost less to cover the recent furious charge nerf.

Double rending claws improves your chance to rend to 4+, or grants you tank hunters and shred (not sure whether rerolls or more rending is better), so Scything talons no longer cost more for genestealers, who may get a price bump for their buff. Genestealers can now also assault out of outflanking and get the ability to strike at initiative into cover as standard, as do Ymgarls.

A Ymgarl broodlord is introduced for flavor.

The tyranid anti-vehicle gun loadout is reworked. Venom cannons are now essentially somewhat shorter ranged autocannons, S7 AP4 Assault 2 at a range of 36' (with accompanying price increase)'. Impaler cannons become S8 AP3 Assault 2 at a range of 30' (hive guards become a good deal pricer now though). Heavy venom cannons become S9 Ap2 at a range of 42', and Rupture cannons have already been covered. No more penalty on the damage table for venom cannons also.

Carnifexes and Tyrants can now take venomcannons and strangleweeds again in twin linked format, so you too can have rifledread monstrous creatures!

Venomthropes can take an upgrade that improves the cover save they grant to 4+ for a reasonable buff in cost.

Lictors don't need to be on the table for their reserve bonus.

Malanthropes are brought into regular play.

Shrikes become jet pack infantry, while winged warriors become jump infantry. A shrike prime is introduced, as is a Ravener prime, Warrior primes can take jump wings.

Gargoyles can pay more to become jetpack infantry.

Carnifexes go down in cost.

You can double up on crushing claws for 2d3 extra attacks on Carnifexes. Crushing claws also improve your AP value to one, doubled up they grant armor bane.

Stonecrusher carnifexes are brought into the codex, as one of the "suggested builds" (double crushing claws, armored carapace, IWND). .

OOE is effectively a double crushing claw carnifex which bought out all the +1 statline buff biomorphs (except for initiative which would be pointless), adamantine tusks, a mace tail, has rapid regeneration (which also lets him stand on 5s), IWND and FNP, and berserk rage that now grants added attacks from added attacks, Also comes with a price bump, expensive, but extremely hard to kill.

The DoM also resembles a Zoanthrope with added biomorphs and some special skills all it's own, and also comes with a price increase as now being T5 protects it from krak missiles, and an invulnerable save of 2 is mean.

Trygons, fine as is, but the Prime gets warp charge one and standard access to new biomorph goodies.

Mawloc, becomes an upgrade for the Trygon to do damage upon entering from deep strike.

Rippers, points decrease, give me other suggestions.

Skyslashers, suggest away.

Pyrovores, I'm open to ideas.

Swarmlord, essentially a quadruple bonesword Tyrant with some added army buffing special rules, regeneration, a warp barrier for a tasty 4+ invulnerable save, armored shell, frag spines, and eternal warrior as standard who bought out all the +1 statline improvement biomorphs, with the difference of having seven instead of five attacks like such a tyrant would (as Sabres are faster on the swing than the katana like blades tyrants use). Comes with a hefty price increase.

Tyrants can also take double boneswords if they want.

Triple boneswords (and lashwhip) allow for instant death with no leadership test and blade parry level one (improves invulnerable save in CC by 1, or gives one of 6+ if they don't have one already), quadruple boneswords grant blade parry (improvement of invulnerable save in close comabt by 2+, or 5+ if they don't already have one).

You can now have more lash whips! Double lash whips decrease WS to 1, Triple lash whips (a double and a lw+bs) force an opponent to reroll hits in assault, quadruple lash whips reduce their attacks to one. Feel free to make naughty tentacle jokes with quadruple lash whip warriors and tyrants.

Tyrant guard can take double lash whips, scything talons, lash whip and bone sword, another set of rending claws, or double boneswords.

Frag spines can be taken by any unit now, for a price.

Deathleaper again largely becomes the base unit with added rules and stat improvement biomorphs.

Lictors can now assault out of deep striking so they can stop sucking so hard.

The parasite of mortex gets EW and a statline buff, and can choose to create either sky slashers or rippers, and can decide whether he wants to be a jetpack or jump unit at the start of each turn. He gets a point increase as well.

A ripper spawning MC is also introduced in the style of the Tervigon.

The tervigon may require a point increase.

New Tyranid specific fortifications are introduced.

A fluff writer who isn't terrible who can also write Tyranid vs Xenos/Chaos fluff too will be brought in.

Robin Cruddace will be kept at a distance of four hundred and thirteen miles from the creation of the new codex at all times.

Trygon tunnels now allow beasts and can let you assault on the turn you come out.

The emergence of a Trygon no longer allows cover saves and distributes wounds as if they were barrages.

Upon completion of the codex, Robin Cruddace is to be promptly beaten to death with a Pyrovore model.

So many of these suggestions are awesome. With the right selection out of this thread GW could make a really solid yet not OP new Tyranid Codex.

One I havent noticed yet:

No cover saves against Dooms Spirit Leech. If armour doesnt help you then why does hiding behind a tree?! Inv saves I can definitely understand.
Also, I think a small points increase in the Doom might be in order to balance this. Maybe to 100pts.

Disagree with a lot of the points, which want to make tyranids into just another army.

Keep synapse. It's a part of the character.

New psychic powers. Make them a bigger part of the tyranid character.

We do need adjustment to assault, because that's part of the character of tyranids. Tyranids maybe got an inprovement in 6th, but there should be a way to rebalance to assault, rather than always going shooty.

Letting genestealers assault straight out of outflank might unbalance the Codex - but they shoudl at least be able to attack after infiltrating. That and/or allow ymgarls as troop choices.

I don't think people really realize how powerful it would be to simply take whatever enemy unit you please out of action, using lictors/ymgarls etc. It would be pretty great for you, but imagine playing against it as anyone but more tyranids. At least ymgarls are 23 points/model and can usually be predicted or even killed before arrival if you swamp the terrain piece.

Only Tau would stand a chance, with supporting fire and interceptor. And even then, barely - PF's and riptides would be taken out of action almost always by t2, and even kroot can't handle gaunts.

I feel like I'm getting ignored here.

pretty much what the OP said, also:

bring back without number from the 4th ed dex

make hormagaunts much cheaper

Make rippers cheaper, i actually disagree with removing them dying when out of synapse, but they should be dirt cheap to compensate

I know its been said already, but just give the carnifex some love, needs a 2+ save option and more attacks, its the classic monster of 40k, it should act that way

bring back evolutionary adaptions, maybe not in the range they were available in the 4th ed dex, because that got very confusing very fast, but it would be fine on carnifexes, tyrants, harpies, trygons and that, just not so available on gants gaunts and genestealers really

now, genestealers assaulting from reserve... this is a tricky one because on one hand its crazy good, other hand without it genestealers are awful and go against fluff, so what about they cant assault when arriving from reserve BUT gain shrouded (or stealth and shrouded) and move through cover on the turn they arrive from arrive, this allows genestealers to arrive from reserve, hide in a terrain piece, and then charge some poor terrified saps. Remove imgarls but make it an upgrade to allow genestealers to arrive from reserve in a terrain piece

also I think nids need to be able to take genestealer cult allies (mini dex in appendice?), or be able to ally with themselves after a fashion

I think it would be cool to incorporate a sort of blend between the boosting of Carnifaxes and bringing back evolutionary adoptions. Maybe something where there's three charts to buy upgrades from, but you can only buy from one set? So the 'Wall of death' might let you buy a 2+ save, higher toughness, more wounds, etc. But the 'Beast of Combat' let's you buy more attacks, strength, etc. And the 'Living Salvo' lets you boost Ballistic Skill, buy guns, (No overlap with the Tyrannofex, though, so a focus on more blast and high number of shots,) and generally boosts firepower.

General customisation, like 4th edition, just doesn't work. It's fantastic in theory for an army like Tyranids, but in practice it's impossible to get right. 40k's simple stat and D6 system just isn't granular enough to do it. Simple +1's to various stats still become 'must takes' and 'ignores' because some stats are simply more important than others.

Also, outside of Hive Tyrants, Gaunts, Warriors and Carnifexes, it doesn't make sense. Everything else is a specialised combat bioform, and anything new is a specialised combat bioform. Termagants, Warriors, Tyrants and Carnifexes are the swarms generic blueprint 'commander, grunt, support, brawler' archetypes.

What I primarily want to see is each unit outside of those 4 given specific stats and special rules to perform their task. Those 4 should be mutable through weapons, not stat modifying upgrades outside of saves, and still have special rules that represent their iconic roles.

Mutability was fun, but it muddied the waters and got confusing as gak for both the Tyranid player and their opponent.

Everyone else has good ideas for units.

Fortifications: Instead of standard fortifications, they should drop EMPTY mycetic spores that can provide cover and/or anti-air abilities. Instead of a troop pod, have a "defensive pod," or an "anti-air pod." Fits better for fluff but can use most of the same rules.

I think a couple units that can assault from deep striking fit the army well, and gives a nice advantage for some units. I don't think all units need this.

Synapse is an odd duck. I think the old rule of that units in synapse ignore ID was fantastic. That alone still being there would make Warriors worth while.

ANd like others have said, can we get an Invulnerable save?

In addition to adaptability, flexibility, and customizability, I think a big thing for Tyranids should be ease of getting reinforcements and replacing losses. Oh sure the Orks, Chaos, and Guard can claim to have massive numbers like the Tyranids, but they can't create replacements on site in the middle of battle. While the other number heavy armies can carpet a battlefield with their starting forces, only the Tyranids can just crank out replacements on demand.

As such, Tervigons, Horvigons, Ripper producers, and skyslasher makers get more prominence, as do rules such as "without number". Spawning pit fortifications that can create fresh units, a greater ability to use reserves and deep strikes, largely cheaper units, new waves of gaunts coming in from the edges of the board, gons cranking out new troops,, etc.

Essentially, retaking the crown of best at attritional warfare for it's true masters. Being less capable at the numbers game than the guard (especially a chenkov supported conscript platoon in cover), is a sham. As are greentide lists routinely outnumbering even bug swarm lists. Heckl cultists are cheaper than gaunts. The Tyranids should be able to outnumber any other army pretty easily if they want to, it's kind of our thing to outnumber guys like the guard as badly as the guard outnumber guys like the Eldar.

 Mattlov wrote:
Everyone else has good ideas for units.

Fortifications: Instead of standard fortifications, they should drop EMPTY mycetic spores that can provide cover and/or anti-air abilities. Instead of a troop pod, have a "defensive pod," or an "anti-air pod." Fits better for fluff but can use most of the same rules.

I think a couple units that can assault from deep striking fit the army well, and gives a nice advantage for some units. I don't think all units need this.

Synapse is an odd duck. I think the old rule of that units in synapse ignore ID was fantastic. That alone still being there would make Warriors worth while.

ANd like others have said, can we get an Invulnerable save?

A bit too simple. What Tyranids need are 'Fortifications' that help them. The general idea behind the rulebook Forifications are just that, Fortified postitions with benefits. Tyranids don't need that, because Tyranids need to play aggressively. They need Fortifications that instead aid their play style.

Take, for example, the old Forgeworld Capillary tower. each spread a 12" SitW (and Synapse, IIRC), and you placed 3. That would be fantastic for Tyranids, giving them a good, cheap spread of Synapse. Or maybe a Spore chimney, but unlike the old one that randomly spat out spore mines, how about it gives a larger spread, maybe 12" of Venomthrope style spores, giving Tyranids a large cloud cover of spores, just like the fluff describes. Or the old Magma Borer, which works like a mix of Jaws of the World Wolf and the Mawloc. It deploys via Deep Strike, and anything it opens under is simply removed after an Initiative test, and becomes impassable thereafter (maybe however not to Tyranids, limiting enemy movements and funelling them into Tyranids, but granting Tyranids more movement freedom through it).

Something else I'd dearly like to see is another infantry type, maybe another specialised type of Gaunt. Maybe a stealthy gaunt, with a new short ranged, high RoF gun, with synergy with Venomthropes (maybe letting them act as synapse, and getting bonuses in the Spore clouds).

 StarHunter25 wrote:
My list of things:

1. Lictors having the old style pheremone trail, so +1 reserves (doesnt stack with other lictors/deathleaper), and gives friendly nid models withing 12" PE against enemies the lictor is xx distance from
2. Bring back the old 4e biomorph style upgrades
3. Venom Cannons; I actually think the -1 on table can help, but give it a split profile, so regular would be S7 AP4 Assault (2/3), or S6 AP4 small blast, while heavy would be S9 AP3 assault (3/4) or S8 AP3 small blast. Another idea for them is instead of flat -1 on damage table, have it count any Explodes! result as Immobilized instead
4. Increase venomthrope unit size to 6, and let them split off a-la wolf guard/royal court
5. Give the Tyrranofex bs4, or the option to purchase it, and give the rupture cannon an ordinance like ability, and either increase the range of fleshborer hive, or make it twin-linked and shred
6. Either allow harpy to take a set of TL-BLW, or have there be a dedicated anti-air variant of some sort, that is only allowed to fire at regular BS at fliers.
7. Bring malanthropes into the regular codex, drop them by 20 points or so, and make them an HQ-but-not-an-HQ like DA techmarines and IG techpriests/ministorum priests
8. Beef up the codex psychic powers to make them more viable
a. The Horror - becomes malediction, and units with ATSKNF are now susceptible to fear USR until next tyranid turn
b. Leech Essence - stay the same, but allow the HT to exceed normal max wounds
c. Paroxysm - nothing needed, an awesome power
d. Psychic Scream - same, but force the Ld test to be at -1 or something, to differenciate it from the BRB version
e. Catalyst - fine as is, though maybe make it FNP (4+)
f. Dominion - fine as is I suppose, but maybe allow it to chain-reaction, so if another synapse creature is in the AOE, then its synapse increases to 18
g. Onslaught - slight adjustment: allows models to EITHER (1) shoot and run in shooting phase or (2) run and assault in same turn. Must declare which is being done before casting
h. Aura of Despair - Keep it the same. perhaps allow it to override stubborn?
i. Hypnotic Gaze - Make it so the model basically acts like it had denied a challenge, so no Ld to squad, cannot attack, cannot make use of it's special abilities in CC, etc. Dude's just chilling there taking in the sights.
j/k. Zoanthrope powers are fine, don't know anyone who would argue that.
9. Indescribable Horror forces fear tests to be taken at -2, in addition to what it already does
10. Allow primes to take wings so it can join raveners, and perhaps make them 2-3 per HQ slot
11. Hormagaunts move like beasts, and give them a rule where if the pass an I test, they strike at initiative when charging through cover
12. Make spike rifles and spinefists free, increase the strength of strangleweb to 3, and make it 1/5
13. Increase max squad size of termagants/hormagaunts to 50
14. Bring back without number, in that any unit of termagants, hormagaunts, or gargoyles that does not have any upgrades whatsoever is placed in ongoing reserves if wiped out
15. Genestealers strike at initiative when charging through cover, and bring back the old scuttlers upgrade, because it was hilarious
16. there are a million and a half suggestions to make carnifexes better, pick the most balanced one and apply it
17. bring back the old style spores for biovores only. standard spore mines have the current profile
18. change trygon tunnels to allow beasts, and allow them to assault the turn the arrive from it
19. Allow mawloc's TFtD to strike models on every level of ruins simultaneously + distribute wounds as if it were barrage, and give it the red terror's swallow hole ability, which IIRC was if all of it's attacks connected, it could chose a single model and remove it instead of making it's regular attacks.
20. Allow spores to "assault" by allowing it to drag anything hit by its ripper tentacles into CC with itself. [OHNOTENTACLES!!!]
21. Rippers drop in points, get rid of mindless, and sky-slashers becomes an upgrade. Tunnel swarms may assault on deep strike, but half their charge range.
22. Swarmlord's SItW extends to 18", swarm leader gives night vision/PE/FC to a friendly tyranid unit within 18",
bonesabres cause an extra wound to models with EW
23. OOE - BS4, T7, 5W, and allow him to join carnifex broods as if he were an IC
24. Doom gets a points increase, but those pesky sandbags wont stop soul sucking anymore
25. Make parasite cause fear, and have it's implant attack work on a 5+
26. Bring in brood nests back

I think that's it.. sorry for the wall of text. I'm fully well aware that quite a few of these are VERY powerful, and would of course require balancing.

1- I like it but make the broods gain PE against one unit within a certain distance of the lictors.
2 - Don't know 4E but if it allows you to modify base stats (especially T and Str) its probably too strong for the reasons other people have already stated.
3 - Interesting change to venom cannons. All for them being able to penetrate Sv3+ and I like the idea of being able to fire it as a blast template or as a multishot.
4- I don't know how the example of the royal guard works. Personally would like to see them be purchasable as an upgrade to a unit instead of buying a spore pod.
5- Definitely should have come with BS4, its a walking, genetically built gun battery, it should be fairly accurate. Ordinance does give a slight disadvantage for firing the stinger salvo, which I think is a good idea. Just make the hive range 24, with the BS 4 it would be good enough.
6 - Just let it use Heavy Venom Cannons and the modified rules for the Venom Cannon you listed in #3. Then it could fire the assault shot at flyers and use the blast against ground troops as it wished.
7 - Ah, only rules I saw for those used 4th ed rules and were way out of wack for 6th ed stats, 2+ armor save as an example. Frankly it needs a complete rewrite. Been working on two variants to put up for my group since I love the model.
8A - Have it removed fearless and ATSKNF if the unit fails a leadership test.
8B - Make it Str 4 and range 18. But only allow it to fill to its max base. Going over is kind of the Doom's thing, and people complain enough about it.
8C-
8D- Its fine. Everyone else learned how to do it from the 'Nids.
8E- Its a really good power as is. I might like to see it grant Eternal Champion though.
8F- Eh, it always feels really weak to me. Maybe instead have it extend synapse range and brood progenitor by 6 inches each.
8G- Sure, something that gives assault 'Nids more movement does seem needed considering how nasty shooting phases can be.
8H- I tend to think its fine as it is.
8I- If it works its pretty crippling. But it is also, in many ways, way weaker then Paroxysm. Maybe make it work against all models in base to base with the broodlord.
8J/K - Yeah, its why I own 6 old metal Zoanthropes.
9 - Hmm, maybe. After all, anything that is going to have the huevoes to assault a Hive Tyrant is going to have a seriously high leadership. So -2 seems reasonable.
10- Ok wings but raveners? Is the idea so they can keep up with them since they are beasts? If they did get wings they would probably go down to 4+ armor save, like Shrikes.
11- Just give all tyranids with move through cover the ability to assault into cover without loosing initiative. Also, give any tyranid with fleet the ability to move +2 inches while running or assaulting. Lets at least pretend tyranids are speedy.
12- Hmm. I don't mind paying the extra point for those. You loose Str but the range increase or reroll is really strong.
13- That is too big. Even 30 is annoying. On the other hand, I do wish you could cause broods of basic termagants to merge together if their max number did not exceed 30. Would allow you to reinforce badly depleted swarms by the spawns of a tervigon.
14- No, not needed. Its very fluffy I agree.
15- Don't know the rule for scuttle, just allow tyranids with move through cover to assault into cover without loosing initiative.
16- Agreed
17- I like the new biovore and spore mines, well, when compared to 2nd ed ones. You would need to describe the old ones.
18- Seems reasonable, trygon is certain a lot larger then raveners. I always thought the main point was to prevent other MC from using the tunnels, GW obviously doesn't want beasts to use it since its obvious and they didn't FAQ it.
19- Going to have to just disagree completely here. I just don't think it needs any of that. It does need some rules modifications to take into account its deep striking from below and not above though.
20- I want to say just let it assault anything within 6inches but that could create all kinds of issues. As does allowing it to pull models to it since that could break squad coherency requiring the enemy squad to actually move towards the Spore Pod if the pod didn't manage to kill the models. Ripper tentacle should be AP2 since the pod is a MC though and the Pod is flailing around with a body part.
21- Rippers need more changed then carnifex, and deeper ones.
22- I don't like anything but maybe the extra wound. It is a more powerful psyker but that shouldn't also change SitW. No reason for SW to grant those abilities either, its already a great HQ. Maybe it should get an extra Warlord trait or be allowed to reroll the Warlord trait.
23- No reason for him to be BS4, heck he only has 1 eye! If anything he should be a lower BS. Not T7 either, that would make him way too nasty, I do like the +1 Wound, and that mostly because I think all carnifex should have his Beserk Rampage ability instead of Living Battering Ram. A special rule that let him join a unit of carnifex, or make him an upgrade to one of the members of a brood would be good. Maybe, if he could do that he could grant Beserk Rampage to the carnifex in his brood.
24- Eh, give the opponents some chance. Doom is nasty enough now. Leave him be point and ability wise. I know its kind of antifluffy for a wall to block a spiritual attack, but using similar logic you should be able to Deny the Witch his Spirit Leech.
25- Ok with fear but I don't see any reason to modify how implant attack works.
26- No idea what those are.

I would like to see tyranids with poison biomorph have that applied to ranged weapons.
I would like Tyranid Prime's Alpha Warrior to apply to any brood he becomes a member of. Or at least grant a +1 to WS and BS, not to exceed the Prime's stat.

Make sure Cruddace doesn't write the bloody thing. Nuff said.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Make sure Phil Kelly writes the bloody thing. Nuff said.

Fixed.

How about giving Mycetic spores an upgrade to spawn gaunts?

 Hansisaf wrote:
How about giving Mycetic spores an upgrade to spawn gaunts?

Hmm...droppable Tervigons essentially?

 Hansisaf wrote:
How about giving Mycetic spores an upgrade to spawn gaunts?

Gaunts don't need any more buffing. The Tervigon has fantastic synergy with them.

Hormagaunts could really use a similar upgrade, which is why I mentioned earlier bringing back the Brood nest. Basically a static respawning point for a Hormagaunt brood - like the old Without Number rule, but from a static, destroyable location so opponents can, if they want, get in and stop the flood of Hormagaunts.

Doesn't have the sheer buffing ability of the Tervigon, nor the psychic potential, nor the synapse potential. But it's a way to add respawnability to Hormagaunts without shoehorning in a 'Horvigon'.

But then, I'd be ecstatic to see Tervigons get renamed to Malefactors, and have their spawning ability changed so you choose at list creation what kind of Gaunt it spawns - Hormagaunts, Termagants, Spinegaunts or Devilgaunts. Obviously each having a different point cost. it's basically a reimagined Malefactor anyway.

I'd also be excstatic to see the Tyrannofex's dumb name stricken from the record and named an Exocrine, since with a Rupture Cannon it's basically a reimagined Exocrine, with some weapon upgrades.

Then give us a Haruspex, basically a suped up Carnifex, and a Dactylis, a giant Biovore.

I would like the nids to have a larger range of different choices for their units, and i would love to see warriors being useful in some sense, currently all they do is being a desperate synapse hoping there isnt str 8 on the table.

Do you people seriously want tyranids to be the new necrons that everyone hates playing against? Because some of those changes you are wish-listing are ridiculous.

 Shan1 wrote:
Do you people seriously want tyranids to be the new necrons that everyone hates playing against? Because some of those changes you are wish-listing are ridiculous.

If you add up all the suggestions in this thread, ofcourse you get a ludicrous codex. But the great thing about Warhammer imho is, if a unit is strong, the cost can be higher to offset this. I'm sure GW can balance our codex.

What I really would like, though, is to be able to make a viable list without a Flyrant and Tervigon(s).

 Shan1 wrote:
Do you people seriously want tyranids to be the new necrons that everyone hates playing against? Because some of those changes you are wish-listing are ridiculous.

Care to list actual examples rather than gripe?

At the moment, there are a lot of anti-armour weapons that are high strength and low AP, which makes them effective as anti-MCs weapons too. I feel the effectiveness of anti-tank weapons against MCs should be reduced, and TMCs then balanced by being more susceptible to anti-infantry weapons. The way I see that happening, is a change in how TMC are durable. Rather then giving TMCs better saves (which will get punched through by melta, Las., plas.), I'd rather give them more wounds. To offset their additional wound or two, I believe their armour should be reduced to 4+ that cannot be upgraded. That way S4+ arms can hurt them and massed S4 (bolters, shootas, etc.) can be a viable way to rip up TMCs. A T6 W6 Fex could be taken down by enough bolter-bobs/Boyz/Firewarriors.. and that means all that medium fire isn't shooting at the Warriors, gaunts and rippers.


Synapse is part of what makes the Tyranid Codex distinct. I'd like it emphasized, and make it interesting. Empower it by giving those within synapse range EW or FNP. Tone down that positive by making synapse an 8" bubble. - not everything has to be in multiples of 6"


Allow the Tyranid Prime to join a squad, or at least a Warrior squad, coming in by spore. Alternatively, make the prime an upgrade of a warrior/shrike.


Give Warriors/Shrikes a weapon alternative to bone swords that gives them the Smash USR.


If your army has Genestealers, allow it to take IG as allies of convenience

I actually think the tyranids need more good AP weapons period. A rupture cannon being less effective against space marines than predator tanks is ridiculous.

 Kain wrote:
I actually think the tyranids need more good AP weapons period. A rupture cannon being less effective against space marines than predator tanks is ridiculous.

Preaching to the choir but I do love the sound of your voice.

 Kain wrote:

 Shan1 wrote:
Do you people seriously want tyranids to be the new necrons that everyone hates playing against? Because some of those changes you are wish-listing are ridiculous.

Care to list actual examples rather than gripe?

Multi-wound T5 warriors
Eternal Warrior warriors
Pretty much all warlord trait lists listed, they would be okay if they had even some bad ones on them, You should look Dark angel and CSM list, they arent supposed to be all good ones like ones listed here are..
Fleshbane torrent pyrovore
Cheaper tervigons

I do agree that tyranid codex needs alot point adjustment and some protection against ID, and no, eternal warrior isnt the answer, maybe give better chance (Like 3+) Deny the witch. Other wise tyranids are a pretty solid codex,

Warriors need some protection from ID to make themm usefull.

Options i like.

Go down to having 2 wounds and T5.

Tyranid Prime Alpha rule allows Warriors to use his toughness aswell ( let prime join outflanking/ds broods )

Synapse makes all units within counts all weapons -1 str for the purpose of ID.

Exactly how does a 3+ deny the witch help against ID?

The Infinite wrote:
Exactly how does a 3+ deny the witch help against ID?

Force weapons are the thing nids are afraid of, of course warriors die to missiles and meltas, but that really isnt the case. IIRC all other mutliwound models are T6 or something, nids need protection from force weapons, or atleast the big guys need.

 Shan1 wrote:

The Infinite wrote:
Exactly how does a 3+ deny the witch help against ID?

Force weapons are the thing nids are afraid of, of course warriors die to missiles and meltas, but that really isnt the case. IIRC all other mutliwound models are T6 or something, nids need protection from force weapons, or atleast the big guys need.

You might want to read the rulebook, p37 "Deny the Witch rolls cannot be taken against Force weapons".

It's Warriors that are the problem not MCs; every nid force includes Tervigons, Tyrants and Trygons, I haven't seen Warriors, Raveners or Shrikes played at all for the last 3 years and with good reason. Ranged ID is crippling for them and their points cost does not reflect how easily they die to it.

Someone here should take the time to amass all of the ideas into an article, and then put a tally next to each idea to show how much people want that particular item.

Force weapons are the thing nids are afraid of, of course warriors die to missiles and meltas, but that really isnt the case. IIRC all other mutliwound models are T6 or something, nids need protection from force weapons, or atleast the big guys need.

I'm fine with a warrior or two dieing to missiles/meltas each turn, but what bothers me is losing an entire brood to a single battlecannon shot, when 1/2 the points amount of terminators shrug and go 'meh.' In my area the most common use for warrior squads is 3-strong synapse bubbles with a strangler, hoping for that pinning test to go off so other broods strike at initiative through cover kinda-ish.

If you could assign the bigger nids to gaunt broods, within reason, 3-6 per brood, and gave them Character status so they could LOS (hell, even if it was only Warriors that got Character) then I think they'd be a lot more worthwhile. Plus, you might just see something other than podded-Zoanthropes, Doom and Hive Guard in the elite slot.
Hell, even Pyrovores become a lot more attractive if they could be used to defend scoring units via wall of death.

 Shan1 wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Shan1 wrote:
Do you people seriously want tyranids to be the new necrons that everyone hates playing against? Because some of those changes you are wish-listing are ridiculous.

Care to list actual examples rather than gripe?

Multi-wound T5 warriors
Eternal Warrior warriors
Pretty much all warlord trait lists listed, they would be okay if they had even some bad ones on them, You should look Dark angel and CSM list, they arent supposed to be all good ones like ones listed here are..
Fleshbane torrent pyrovore
Cheaper tervigons

I do agree that tyranid codex needs alot point adjustment and some protection against ID, and no, eternal warrior isnt the answer, maybe give better chance (Like 3+) Deny the witch. Other wise tyranids are a pretty solid codex,

The tyranid codex is inflexible and immutable, if you don't have a core few units, you lose.

See my megapost for making Tyranids the most flexible and swarmy army again.

The Tau should not outadapt US and the orks should not outnumber us.

I made this wishlist a little while back:

HQ
-Hive Tyrants need like a 10 point base drop, but make it so Flyrants cost just as much
-Tervigons are fine, but shouldn't be scoring (slight nerf)
-Swarmlord needs about a 10-20 point drop
-Prime needs a model, the ability to take wings, and join Warriors in a Spod

Elite
-Hive Guard are fine
-Lictors need to be able to assault out of deep strike, and give the +1 reserve bonus without being on the table.
-Deathleaper needs to be able to assault out of deep strike, all attacks are precision strikes, and give the +1 reserve bonus without being on the table.
-Venomthropes need to give a shrouded bubble.
-Zoanthropes are fine
-Doom needs a slight points increase, maybe 10-20 points.
-Ymgarls are fine
-Pyrovore desperately needs torrent and maybe +1 Toughness and Attacks. That might be swinging the pendulum a little far though.

Troop:
-Warriors need to be T: 5 W: 2. I'm leaning away from eternal warrrior because I do feel they should be able to be insta-killed.
-Genestealers need to be able to assault when coming in from reserve (not Spod though)
-Termagants are fine
-Hormagants need to be 5 ppm
-Rippers need some help, not sure what

Fast Attack:
-Shrikes need the same treatment as warriors
-Raveners need the same treatment as warriors
-Gargoyles are fine, being able to suicide flyers would be really nice though.
-Sky-slashers need some help, not sure what
-Harpy really needs some AA options, and shouldn't be a joke
-Spore Mines would make great AA if they worked like jellyfish. Tentacles that go down for a very long ways, and are nearly invisible. Just enough to grab onto the mine so it can retract and hit the plane. Definitely a feasible AA method.

Heavy Support:
-Carnifex should be about 20 points cheaper, with a 20 point upgrade to have a 2+ save. Getting rid of their armored shell was stupid.
-Old One Eye really needs to not suck. Giving him an invul save might help.
-Biovores seem fine to me, but giving them an AA option would be really nice.
-Trygons seem fine to me.
-Mawlocs I'd like to see have some kind of accurate deep strike. Maybe make it so they only scatter 1D6, that'd make them dramatically better.
-Tyrannofex I'd like to see being BS 4, and with a lot more options. Keep the points akin to that of a Land Raider, but make it a better unit. Give it more than 1 gun that can reach out and touch people at 36"+



Since flyers were introduced, I've always felt that air to air should be fast attack and AAA types should be heavy support. Every codex should have 3+ options to counter flyers, each with different capabilities.

For instance:
-A ground based one that has the option of hitting aircraft.
-A flying one that has the option of hitting aircraft.
-A flying one that can only hit aircraft, but ensures air superiority.


-Rabid

We need to keep synapse. Maybe bring back EW as part of the effect, as this effectively dealt with a lot of the issues Warriors had. Yes, it can nerf Force Weapons a bit, but the Hive Mind is supposed to be largely psychically unassailable so why the heck not? It only becomes really hideous on Hive Tyrants and the odd 'Fex that's apparently too scared to leave the comfort of Synapse range, and only against that sort of weapon.

Some representation of Without Number would be great, it's a swarm army that while beatable should feel sort of overwhelming to fight. When you beat bugs you should feel like it was a close shave. How about bringing back a new Shoot The Big Ones/Target Priority rule versus 'nids? The army starts to falter as you destroy synapse monsters but the waves of scuttling beasties make it really difficult to focus since they're trying to eat your face.

I have not had a problem winning games in 6E, I usually either wipe or come darn close, I play neither Tervigons or Flyrants and I often bring a bunch of Warriors, Hormagaunts and even the odd Lictor, and only two 'Fexes. I think revisiting all the 'classic' units is going to be necessary. Some units usually function poorly right now:

Hormagaunts: As previously stated by another poster, these should be beasts. Done and done, fixed.

Genestealers: Not sure what to do with them. The current Rending rules make them not the awful combat beasts they used to be. If these guys hit you and you survive it used to be a huge deal, now they are just not very scary. If they were the same as now but cheaper they would be fine, otherwise they need some oomph.

Lictors: These need to go back to the hidden deployment of old in my opinion, or effectively deep strike in cover with no mishap or scatter, something. Pheremone Trail should be active from turn one. Maybe give them something akin to the Ymgarl Dormant rule.

addendum: How about Rending on 5 or 6 for Lictors and Stealers, like Deathleaper? That would make both units once again combat monsters, with a simple fix.

I personally don't like the special characters. They are very good but playing tyranids for me is about soulless devourers and only caring about your units' tactical value. I don't see the point. You should instead have a mutable Tyrant with a lot of interesting options.

Shift around the force org slots. Tervigons never should have been Troops. Go back to Warriors as HQ/Elites perhaps, or make Primes a unit (3-6 maybe) and debuff them a tad? Do Primes as a 1-3 HQ that functions as an IC? I think the Elites slot is far too crowded since it contains units that, depending on edition, were (for me at least) pretty auto-include (Zoanthropes, Warriors and Lictors) and newer units one wants to try out, like Hive Guard and Venomthropes. This has always been a problem for them, unlike Chaos (who can rock the marks on HQ and cult troops) One solution to this could be some sort of Tyrant based decision for the nature of your army- for example a winged Tyrant might open up Gargoyles and Flying Rippers as Troops, another option might open up a more Nidzilla feel, another could gear the list more toward Genestealers and Lictors coming out of the walls, endless swarms, or psychic beasties and terror tactics, etc.. What if you flat out PICK your Warlord trait from such a list of options when you uild your list, rather than the pre-game roll?

I quite like the Tyranids and I haven't had much problem keeping them competitive, but they do need some fixes. They just need to make all the units decent again.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Hansisaf wrote:
How about giving Mycetic spores an upgrade to spawn gaunts?

Gaunts don't need any more buffing. The Tervigon has fantastic synergy with them.

Hormagaunts could really use a similar upgrade, which is why I mentioned earlier bringing back the Brood nest. Basically a static respawning point for a Hormagaunt brood - like the old Without Number rule, but from a static, destroyable location so opponents can, if they want, get in and stop the flood of Hormagaunts.

Doesn't have the sheer buffing ability of the Tervigon, nor the psychic potential, nor the synapse potential. But it's a way to add respawnability to Hormagaunts without shoehorning in a 'Horvigon'.

But then, I'd be ecstatic to see Tervigons get renamed to Malefactors, and have their spawning ability changed so you choose at list creation what kind of Gaunt it spawns - Hormagaunts, Termagants, Spinegaunts or Devilgaunts. Obviously each having a different point cost. it's basically a reimagined Malefactor anyway.

I'd also be excstatic to see the Tyrannofex's dumb name stricken from the record and named an Exocrine, since with a Rupture Cannon it's basically a reimagined Exocrine, with some weapon upgrades.

Then give us a Haruspex, basically a suped up Carnifex, and a Dactylis, a giant Biovore.

I've always thought the Tervigon should have an upgrade to spawn Hormagaunts instead of Termigants.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 Hansisaf wrote:
How about giving Mycetic spores an upgrade to spawn gaunts?

Gaunts don't need any more buffing. The Tervigon has fantastic synergy with them.

Hormagaunts could really use a similar upgrade, which is why I mentioned earlier bringing back the Brood nest. Basically a static respawning point for a Hormagaunt brood - like the old Without Number rule, but from a static, destroyable location so opponents can, if they want, get in and stop the flood of Hormagaunts.

Doesn't have the sheer buffing ability of the Tervigon, nor the psychic potential, nor the synapse potential. But it's a way to add respawnability to Hormagaunts without shoehorning in a 'Horvigon'.

But then, I'd be ecstatic to see Tervigons get renamed to Malefactors, and have their spawning ability changed so you choose at list creation what kind of Gaunt it spawns - Hormagaunts, Termagants, Spinegaunts or Devilgaunts. Obviously each having a different point cost. it's basically a reimagined Malefactor anyway.

I'd also be excstatic to see the Tyrannofex's dumb name stricken from the record and named an Exocrine, since with a Rupture Cannon it's basically a reimagined Exocrine, with some weapon upgrades.

Then give us a Haruspex, basically a suped up Carnifex, and a Dactylis, a giant Biovore.

I've always thought the Tervigon should have an upgrade to spawn Hormagaunts instead of Termigants.

Well, not an upgrade that would cost anything, more of an option. It's not like Hormies really have enough to justify costing more than Termagaunts.

I think we should also have the genestealer patriarch return as the squad leader for genestealers, with a Ymgarl version as well, essentially being the current broodlord. The broodlord will instead get a buff and points increase and become an HQ choice so you can have your genestealer cult. It also comes in Ymgarl format too.

Instead of a separate dex for genestealer cultists, we could have the Inquisitorial retinue system where it's essentially an entirely different army you can unlock by having a certain HQ unit, in this case the Broodlord.

Genestealer cultists in general would be dirt cheap, but they do unlock access to vehicles, typically lower quality stuff they probably stole from the local PDF with the occasional tank or flier, along with artillery (certainly not IG grade though, a genestealer cultist focused list would essentially be a PDF with added gribblies)

Also, on the subject of artillery, here's some improvements for the Biovore.

In addition to the current spore mine it can take:

.Acid spore mine 10 points: S5 Ap3 - Has armorbane (No blast though)
Frag spore mine 5 points: S4 Ap4 Small blast: Rending
Toxin spore mine 5 points: S1 Ap4 Poisoned(4+) Large blast.

And it can take skyfire and interceptor for five points each (obviously you'd need an acid spore mine for this to be worthwhile though!)


A bigger version that launches meiotic spore mines (the bigger FW ones) would be like so.

Organi-vore

WS 3, BS 3, S 5, T 5, W 3, I 1, A 1, Ld 5, Sv 5+

Wargear: Largely identical to the Biovore except with a meiotic spore launcher instead, which is identical to the spore mine launcher with the exception of launching at a range of 96' instead of the biovore's 48' and as it fires the meitoic spore, it has S5 Ap3 large blast.

Acid spore mine 10 points: S6 Ap2 - Has armorbane (No blast though)
Frag spore mine 5 points: S5 Ap3 Small blast: Rending
Toxin spore mine 5 points: S1 Ap3 Poisoned(4+) Large blast .

And it can take skyfire and interceptor for five points each (obviously you'd need an acid spore mine for this to be worthwhile though!)

Still thinking on what a pyro version of this would be like.

MEQ players may hate you for it though.

New Idea!!

Add spore chimneys to any MC/FMC upgrade set. Any enemy flier must make a DT test if they fly withing x distance of it, and enemy non-tyranid FMC must take a grounding test

Also, from the warlord thread I came up with these:

1: Exalted Synapse: Extends synapse range by 6" (making it 18") Also, tyranid models within 6" gain Feel No Pain (6+)
2: Master of the Swarm: All termigant, hormagaunt, and gargoyle* broods purchased (so no tervigon shenanigans), when destroyed, are automatically restored to full strength and placed into ongoing reserves
3: Choked Skies: Any non-tyranid flier or swooping flying monstrous creature has it's movement impeded. Fliers that move more than their minimum distance must take a dangerous terrain test, and swooping flying monstrous creatures must pass a grounding test
4: Gestalt Conscious: Once per game, all tyranid units may use the warlord's leadership for any leadership or morale tests they are need to make. In addition, they may also choose to use the warlord for drawing line of site, be it for shooting (affects cover) or assault. This effect lasts until the beginning of the player's next turn.
5: Voracious hunger: The warlord and any tyranid unit within 6" may re-roll Sweeping Advance check. Any unit successfully swept by a unit affected by this ability awards an extra victory point. However, units that are successful may not consolidate after combat
6: Extension of the Hive Mind: If the warlord becomes a psyker, And adds 1 to it's mastery level. (Prime becomes ML1, hive tyrant would be ML2)

*Only if warlord is Jump Infantry/FMC
*snip*
Swarmlord may re-roll result, but must re-roll second

Synapse as a more vital piece of Synergy. Certain creatures are more powerful at Synapse, and depending on how Synapsey you are you get more buffs. Maybe... most Synapse creatures are level 1 synapse, a couple are level 2, maybe the swarmlord is level 3? (Or even level 4 and you make hive tyrants level three...)
For every Synapse point nearby, add one and consult the chart. (So if you have two Zoanthropes (level 1) and a Tervigon (level 2) within 12" then you have four points.)
0 - Instinctive behavior
1 - No benefits or penalties
2 - Use the highest leadership in Synapse range
3 - Fearless
4 - All above, Preferred Enemy (Any target within 12" of a Synapse creature buffing the current squad)
5 - All above, Feel no Pain
6 - All above, Eternal Warrior
7+ - All above, may substitute any In-range Synapse creature's BS or WS

These are just stand-ins, but you get the point. The more synaptic you are, the tougher you are. (With some exceptions, of course. Genestealers might always count as level 4 regardless of how many synapse creatures would be nearby, etc.)

Also, make Warriors a character upgrade to lead guants and gants.

Waaaghpower wrote:
Synapse as a more vital piece of Synergy. Certain creatures are more powerful at Synapse, and depending on how Synapsey you are you get more buffs. Maybe... most Synapse creatures are level 1 synapse, a couple are level 2, maybe the swarmlord is level 3? (Or even level 4 and you make hive tyrants level three...)
For every Synapse point nearby, add one and consult the chart. (So if you have two Zoanthropes (level 1) and a Tervigon (level 2) within 12" then you have four points.)
0 - Instinctive behavior
1 - No benefits or penalties
2 - Use the highest leadership in Synapse range
3 - Fearless
4 - All above, Preferred Enemy (Any target within 12" of a Synapse creature buffing the current squad)
5 - All above, Feel no Pain
6 - All above, Eternal Warrior
7+ - All above, may substitute any In-range Synapse creature's BS or WS

These are just stand-ins, but you get the point. The more synaptic you are, the tougher you are. (With some exceptions, of course. Genestealers might always count as level 4 regardless of how many synapse creatures would be nearby, etc.)

Also, make Warriors a character upgrade to lead guants and gants.

I'm actually a big fan of this system and think it is the way GW should go forward.

Do you mind if I adopt something like this for the custom Tyranid codex that I'm working on for a new rulebook?

 rabid1903 wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
Synapse as a more vital piece of Synergy. Certain creatures are more powerful at Synapse, and depending on how Synapsey you are you get more buffs. Maybe... most Synapse creatures are level 1 synapse, a couple are level 2, maybe the swarmlord is level 3? (Or even level 4 and you make hive tyrants level three...)
For every Synapse point nearby, add one and consult the chart. (So if you have two Zoanthropes (level 1) and a Tervigon (level 2) within 12" then you have four points.)
0 - Instinctive behavior
1 - No benefits or penalties
2 - Use the highest leadership in Synapse range
3 - Fearless
4 - All above, Preferred Enemy (Any target within 12" of a Synapse creature buffing the current squad)
5 - All above, Feel no Pain
6 - All above, Eternal Warrior
7+ - All above, may substitute any In-range Synapse creature's BS or WS

These are just stand-ins, but you get the point. The more synaptic you are, the tougher you are. (With some exceptions, of course. Genestealers might always count as level 4 regardless of how many synapse creatures would be nearby, etc.)

Also, make Warriors a character upgrade to lead guants and gants.

I'm actually a big fan of this system and think it is the way GW should go forward.

Do you mind if I adopt something like this for the custom Tyranid codex that I'm working on for a new rulebook?

Please do! I'd like to see it when it's done.

What about Zoanthropes being a "brotherhood of psykers" and having a psychic level equal to the amount of living Zoanthropes in that brood?

s8 ap 2 weapon. Range 18"

Each Thrope after the first adds an additional point of S and 6" to the range. BS 5

Bloodhorror wrote:
s8 ap 2 weapon. Range 18"

Each Thrope after the first adds an additional point of S and 6" to the range. BS 5

And thropes cost 30 points, have 3++ and are multi-wound? Right?

 Shan1 wrote:

Bloodhorror wrote:
s8 ap 2 weapon. Range 18"

Each Thrope after the first adds an additional point of S and 6" to the range. BS 5

And thropes cost 30 points, have 3++ and are multi-wound? Right?

But no EW, and onlu t4, and the regular warp lance can be fired by the entire squad, for three S10 ap1 lance shots. Note the lance and ap1, this means that a zoanthrope has a five out of six chance to at least glance any armor, because it's at best AV12 to them barring a few costly vehicles that ignore lance. And with the buff to ap1, you are at the very least removing a hull point and tearing off a gun, and with three shots you''re almost definitely coring it. Open topped vehicles are at least getting immobilized. Zoanthropes are perhaps the best heavy tank busters the tyranids have. In a pinch, you could also turn guys like sanguinor inside out. They would be autotakes, but Hive guards are also in the same slot and just as useful, as are ymgarls. But few things are more satisfying than the look on your opponent's face when Zoanthropes in a can pop out and turn his baneblade inside out before it ever gets to use all it's guns.

 StarHunter25 wrote:
New Idea!!

Add spore chimneys to any MC/FMC upgrade set. Any enemy flier must make a DT test if they fly withing x distance of it, and enemy non-tyranid FMC must take a grounding test

Also, from the warlord thread I came up with these:

1: Exalted Synapse: Extends synapse range by 6" (making it 18") Also, tyranid models within 6" gain Feel No Pain (6+)
2: Master of the Swarm: All termigant, hormagaunt, and gargoyle* broods purchased (so no tervigon shenanigans), when destroyed, are automatically restored to full strength and placed into ongoing reserves
3: Choked Skies: Any non-tyranid flier or swooping flying monstrous creature has it's movement impeded. Fliers that move more than their minimum distance must take a dangerous terrain test, and swooping flying monstrous creatures must pass a grounding test
4: Gestalt Conscious: Once per game, all tyranid units may use the warlord's leadership for any leadership or morale tests they are need to make. In addition, they may also choose to use the warlord for drawing line of site, be it for shooting (affects cover) or assault. This effect lasts until the beginning of the player's next turn.
5: Voracious hunger: The warlord and any tyranid unit within 6" may re-roll Sweeping Advance check. Any unit successfully swept by a unit affected by this ability awards an extra victory point. However, units that are successful may not consolidate after combat
6: Extension of the Hive Mind: If the warlord becomes a psyker, And adds 1 to it's mastery level. (Prime becomes ML1, hive tyrant would be ML2)

*Only if warlord is Jump Infantry/FMC
*snip*
Swarmlord may re-roll result, but must re-roll second

[/quote

Sounds amazing, but honestly these are all horribly overpowered...
1. I like the idea of a synapse buff, but FnP too is too much
2. For a free roll ability, WAY overpowered. I like to start with 40-50 gants before Tervigons, you should pay for endless swarm.
3. 1/6 chance to neuter a flyer or 1/3 chance to screw over a FMC? Again, too good to be free.
4. Itd be better if you just said that any Nids outside of synapse can use its LD.
5. Situational, should be Warlords unit only, +1 VP for a sweeping advance
6. Thats a 25 point upgrade in most 6th armies... again, too good be free.