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Personally I don't see nids needing a total overhaul but definately some changes are needed. I'm thinking more about rules than points reductions. Things that might be good are:

1. Lictors adding reserve bonus from the start of the game not after they deploy.
2. Lictors being able to assault when they appear.
3. Pyrovores having the torrent special rule.
4. Warrior becoming S5 and T5.
5. Boneswords AP2.
6. Termagants going into rolling reserves when destroyed if you have a tervigon. Bring back that wave after wave of expendable troops that encourages nid players to use them boldly.
7. Rippers not dying if out of synapse range.
8. Make hormagants beasts.
9. Give the harpy something to shoot flyers with and let it vector strike at a higher strength than 5.
10. Let carnifexes get a 2+ armour save.
11. Make sporemines let friendly units ignore initiative penalties when charging through cover just like the daemons' skull cannon. Let this combine with biovores too.
12. Tervigons being HQ only. Troop versions have led to too much spam abuse. (Combine this with point 6 remember.)

1. I would like to see synapse phase out. It just limits what Nid players can do and makes it difficult to build small points lists

2. I would like to see some kind of flying monster that is worth the points. Flyrants just are not as good as a walking tyrant with tons of firepower and hive guard of equal points.

3. Rolling reserves sounds like the worst plan ever. It is hard enough to beat the swarm as it is the last thing the nids need more free models to put on the board.

4. an invulnerable save of some kind or another. It sucks to see that Expensive monster die in one hit from a force weapon and not get any kind of save.

Carnifexes can buy additional wounds up to a total of 6 wounds for 15 points a wound. Also being able to upgrade to WS 4 for being a veteran carnifex.

A flying monstrous creature with two damns.

Either make warriors cheaper or give them a better armor save purchase available.

Actually make models for the stuff they have in the damn book. Dont get me wrong i was quite proud of myself for making my tervigons back in the day. my doom too. still id rather just have one made for me.

get rid of pyrovores/biovores or make them cheaper.

mawlocs should be cheaper.

give hive guard skyfire.

and many many more of course.

Where do I start...

Synapse units should have some form of ID protection. Perhaps an invuln save only against ID attacks, or reducing it to 2 wounds would help.

Assuming they had that, Tyranid Warriors would just need a better armour save of 3+ (with 4+ for Shrikes) to make them more durable to massed bolter fire. Shrike Primes should also be an option.

Carnifexes should be tougher, to help distinguish them from all the other T6 MC's. Perhaps T7 and FNP / IWND as standard, with an optional 2+ armour upgrade.

Harpies should be a solid anti-air unit. Increased strength for vector strikes, and a venom cannon profile that isn't based on a blast.
Hive Guard could also be a good choice for a Skyfire upgrade.

Lictors should keep their current reserve bonuses, but be available on turn 1 like Drop Pods / Deathwing Assault. Perhaps with a 5+ or 6+ 'dodge' invulnerable save to help them weather a little fire. Move them to Fast Attack too.

Pyrovores and Venomthropes should be unit upgrades outside the FOC (like Apothecaries). Pyrovores would serve to help flush units out of cover and give assault grenade abilities, while Venomthropes remain in a defensive role.

Ripper broods could spawn additional units each time they eat something, creating a growing swarm. Also, give them Rending as standard.

Mawlocs need to be more reliable for what they do, since chances are they only get to do a burrow attack twice per game. Ignoring cover saves and reduced scatter is a good start.

Tyrannofexes needs an upgrade, as the weapons aren't really powerful enough to justify the cost. An S5, twin-linked Fleshborer Hive with Rending would be nicely terrifying, while the Rupture cannon could use at least one more shot and be AP1/2. Perhaps repurpose it into all close-range linebreaker MC, and make Zoanthropes the long-ranged anti-tank option instead.

Bring back Null Zone as an invulnerable save upgrade for key beasties like Hive Tyrants and Terivgons. The base cost of a Hive Tyrant should also be lower.

Tyrant Guard have FNP to better reflect their fluff.

Without Number.

Cost appropriate Carnifexes, either their points go down or their wounds go up to 6.

Re-gigging Tervigons so they don't crap out so easy. Possibly triples instead of doubles, or the same number total twice?

Other than that I am pretty happy with the army as a whole.

Just like all the other codexs...try to make everything a valid selection..meaning change things in the codex to raise and lower units as needed...make this a balanced game, or at least as close as you can get....


But it is strictly what we want.


I want a T10 creature with 6W...and 10 strength...with at least 6 instant death attacks if not more...all for no more than 200 points.

1) Hive Guard gain the option to Skyfire if they remain stationary.

2) Genestealers gain option to assault from reserves.

3) Synapse: If a nid suffers a wound that causes ID, roll a D6. On a 6 the ID effect from that wound is ignored and the creature only suffers a single wound. making it straight immunity to ID would be too powerful.

4) Readjust point costs here and there.

I agree that point costs need to be altered to justify taking certain models, along with a codex that is generally balanced. If that involves nerfing a few of the current powerhouses, then so be it, as long as they buff other underpowered ones. I'd rather play with a balanced codex than one that is largely askew (as I believe the current one is).

Unlike other codices, Tyranids really have only one or two competitive list builds that actually hold up against other armies. It'd be nice to play a list that doesn't involve taking costly flyrants as your one and only source of skyfire, and spamming troop tervigons because they are the only troops who won't get instant-killed by everything.

More so, I would like models to actually work the way they are supposed to, according to the codex. I am a relatively new player to 40k, and the Tyranids were gifted to me as my first army. Nothing pissed me off more than reading about all these awesomely powerful creatures and then playing with them and seeing how easy they got murdered, or how ineffective their unique powers were (Yes, some of that was my own tactical wrong-doing, but i have learned better now).

There are so many units in the codex that I have always wanted to play but can never justify using because of:
a) disproportional point costs
b) they just don't work the way the lore intended them to

And would a F*CKING AP 3 GUN be too much to ask for!!!??? It's a little embarrassing that the only gun with a low AP in the codex is a corrosive spitball that a carnifex can spew 12".

One thing I would really like to see, is very unique codex psychic powers. My friend plays CSM and I look at all the crazy powers his Daemon Prince gets access to, and I think it'd be very neat to have totally unique Tyranid psyker powers that Hive Tyrants and Tervigons and the like can get access too. Especially since a good portion of the current codex powers are now available in better forms in the BRB psyker disciplines.

Other cool ideas would be to have poisoned SHOOTING attacks, such as the Dark Eldar. Tyranid lore can easily justify this.

My final idea came to me after reading the CSM codex. Depending on what mark they take, CSM can recieve bonuses for belonging to one of the four gods of Chaos. I think something similar can easily be done with the Hive Fleets in the codex lore. For example, Hive Fleet Gorgon was known to be the most biologically-adaptable Hive Fleet yet encountered. So if you declared your Tyranids were from Gorgon, they'd recieve some kind of bonus. Bonuses would vary from things like +1 A, S, T, Sv, etc. I'm not saying replicate the Chaos Daemon marks exactly, but something similar can be devised.

All in all, I think Tyranids have so much potential for their next codex that can be easily justified with it's unique and extensive lore. I'd like to see some major changes, after all, the Hivemind is known to adapt.

J0kerrMT wrote:
Just like all the other codexs...try to make everything a valid selection..meaning change things in the codex to raise and lower units as needed...make this a balanced game, or at least as close as you can get....

This. I would like a codex where everything is a valid choice. Honestly, this would likely help GW and model sales too (they could sell a bit of everything)

Remove synapse altogether, it restrict's the army horribly, and unnecessarily

More FMCs, possibly less powerful options to the Hive Tyrant. Maybe a cheaper Harpy.

Nerf the doom. he is way too good and has no real weakness.

I'm not going to trot out points and stat tweaks, because it's been done to death.

Tyranids, as a whole, need flavour. The army, while having some good units and with 6th edition a few potential powerful builds, just feels incredibly boring to play. While Cruddace has thrown in some special rules, they tend to be on underused or non used units. There's a lot of stuff that could use upgrades or general rules that reflect their fluff.

For example, Carnifexes. They're described as living engines of destruction, living battering rams, heavily armoured shock assault troops, and various other awesome catch phrases that make them sound beastly in assault. The best line is 'while a Carnifexes charge is slow to get moving, the best way to defend against it to be somewhere else when it arrives'. Yet Carnifexes are altogether ordinary in assault. Low attacks, low WS, and reliance on scything talons to land hits. Crushing Claws are pretty worthless. Hormagaunts are described as being without number, relentless attack waves that self replicate by laying eggs. Genestealers are shock assault troops who burst from sewers and earthworks to tear apart enemies unaware, yet only Ymgarl Genestealers can do this.

Since GW seems to be on a special rule kick for depicting the more 'cinematic' aspects of the game, here's a few suggestions.

Carnifexes Living Battering Ram. They get D3 Hammer of Wrath attackes for each model in the brood. These attacks are Rending attacks.

Carnifexes gain the Armoured Shell upgrade.

This represents their charge. A single Carnifex will hurt when it connects. A brood can be devastating. The Armoured Shell upgrade represents the heavily armoured shock assault types used in boarding actions described in fluff.

Hormagaunts. Brood Nest upgrade. An AV10/10/10 building with 3 structure points, placed with Infiltration rules. Confers Synapse to Hormagaunt units within 12". If the owning Hormagaunt unit is reduced below 25% casualties, it may be removed as if destroyed, and in the Tyranid players next turn, a new Hormagaunt brood is deployed from the Brood Nest with D6 less models than it started with. This brood may move and assault as normal on the turn it arrives, but cannot claim objectives for the rest of the game. If the Brood Nest is destroyed, the owning Hormagaunt unit, either the original or any replacement, loses this ability.

This represents the Hormagaunts egg laying, and a way to add replenishing Hormagaunts without resorting to shoehorning in a 'Horvigon'. It also gives the opponent the chance to hunt the source of the replicating unit down.

Genestealers can deploy via 3 types of deployment - Dormant (as per Ymgarl genestealers), via Outflank or as regular Infiltrators.

Regular genestealers are shown in fluff doing what Ymgarls do - not letting regular units do it is just odd.

Rules like this would go a long way in adding some needed flavour to Tyranids.

 Evileyes wrote:
Remove synapse altogether, it restrict's the army horribly, and unnecessarily

I feel like this is a terrible idea... Perhaps it needs to work differently but it's been a part of Tyranids pretty much the whole time. Arguing that they shouldn't have it sounds to me like arguing that Eldar should get ridiculously tough well-armoured Troops choices. It's part of using that army.

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:

 Evileyes wrote:
Remove synapse altogether, it restrict's the army horribly, and unnecessarily

I feel like this is a terrible idea... Perhaps it needs to work differently but it's been a part of Tyranids pretty much the whole time. Arguing that they shouldn't have it sounds to me like arguing that Eldar should get ridiculously tough well-armoured Troops choices. It's part of using that army.

It feels like it's a terrible idea because it is a terrible idea. Synapse is one of the defining characteristics of a Tyranid force, and one of the little balancing acts you play with when making an army - too much synapse in case some die? Just enough to fit in some other units? Less than desirable to fit in even more non-synapse stuff? It's a good mechanic for Tyranids.

Synapse needs some work though. At the moment, it's just... there. Some units get a pretty good buff for being outside of it as well.

They could (literally) go back to square one with synapse and do something akin to the Epic: Hive War expansion. This built on the old Epic system of needing to give orders to units each turn. However for Tyranids, the total number of orders were based on the number of synapse creatures you have alive. Without instructions, most broods would revert to their base instincts of Rampage, Hunt or Feed.

I think that rather than just checking if units are in synapse range each turn, it would be more interesting to see synapse units generate a random number of 'synapse points', which could then be used to override base instincts or in some cases 'overcharge' certain units (giving them FNP, EW or other abilities). Not only would this add some flavour to the Tyranid army, it would further encourage protection of synapse creatures as losing them would directly diminish control of your army.

A good Tyranid player would be one that knew how to use the instinctive behaviour of units effectively without relying on getting a certain number of points per turn.

Looking at the other codeces for 6th, if I was a betting man I'd lay odds on synapse being the key element of the new dex. They've tried to develop the key schtick of all the other armies: Tau got droned out, CSM have chaos boons and marks galore, daemons got instability, etc.

For me the obvious way to make nids unique is to utilise synapse, allowing synapse beasts to but synapse options, e.g. range extensions, ability to make units do certain things, etc. The most logical rule that does not apply to nids is feel no pain. Individual nids have absolutely no sense of self so they would not be phased by injuries and synapse creatures will presumably drive them on until they are literally incapacitated. It would have to cost, obviously to be fair.

For me nids need variety. How many other armies have so many totally vanilla units or ones with really, really limited options. Nids are supposed to be infinitely adaptable. I expect to see some sort of generic options list, possibly one set of biomporph upgrades for troops, one for MCs, etc.

They can get a lot of mileage from allowing simple changes like giving hive guard weapon options, like an anti-infantry weapon or a flakk option.

I think nids need options for bigger units of certain creatures like zoanthropes.

I love the idea of venomthropes as unit upgrades, it makes a huge amount of sense. Give them a buff for assault, say allowing them to act as offensive grenades.

I want to see options for inv saves, I think they should cost but they ought to be available. A CSM character can buy a sigil of corruption (4+ inv) for 25 pts. I would like to see tyrants at least able to buy an inv save.

The nerf of fleet means that nids need something to allow their assault troops to close more quickly, such as the sensible idea of making them beasts.

NIds also must have a fortification with weapons they can fire. Having no fortifications bars them from the other main innovation of 6th ed. They need a couple of fortifiation options with skyfiring bio-weapons.

I really hope the people at GW is reading all of this... These are some awesome ideas!

I really like the Codex as is but if there were changes.....

Tyrannofex needs to less points. Maybe 20 less.

Warriors drop by 5 points. Make em worth the risk of ID.

Carnifex add a wound or 2 or drop 15 to 20 points off.

Genestealers should drop by 2 points each.

Harpy needs 1 more wound.

Some type of anti flying unit.

Nids that can man defense guns.

Increase synapse range by 6 Inches.

Raise the doom by 15 points. (but if you do that Marbo should go up too.)

The thing I would like to see the most is removal of the synapse rules as they exist and turn them into standard leadership type rules instead. If a unit of lesser 'nids is within X distance of a synapse creature then they can use its leadership for all necessary tests instead of their own, so that having the warriors in there supporting the more mindless masses still makes sense.

I used to love my ripper guants "without end" a couple 'nid books ago. I wouldn't mind seeing that option come back, but of course it would have a cost associated with it, whether as a bonus option for a tervigon, or just an option for the unit itself. I think it used to be +2 points per model if memory serves, and it doesn't always.

Generally I don't expect too many big changes for the 'nids since the overall power leve lin the books is being toned down significantly.

Skriker

I thought boneswords already ignored armor? why would you want AP2 if you already have it?

The difference is +1 on the vehicle damage chart. Ignoring Armor doesn't give you that bonus.

HQ:
*Swarmlord: Instead of Fearless, allows units within 18" to choose to pass or fail. SitW also goes to 18".
*Tyrants: Heavy Venom Cannon goes to Ap. 3, no reduction to damage table. Drop base points by 10, increase Wings cost by 10.
*Prime: 10 points cheaper.
*Parasite of Mortrex: Toughness 5, no points change.
*Tervigon: No changes needed
*Tyrant Guard: -5 points

ELITES:
*Hive Guard: BS 3, can snapfire at units out of LoS, Ignore Cover. Impaler Cannons: The living Ammo always adds +1 to the to-hit roll, even when snapfiring. This allows Hive Guard to be better anti air but worse at shooting Ground targets out of LoS, a fair trade I think.
*Venomthrope: Change to shrouded instead of 5+, or maybe stealth. Give IC rule and ability to break up squad.
*Lictors: Give Ymgarls rule to them for deployment assault, option to infiltrate. -5 points
*Deathleaper: As above, and -20 points, and ability to replace one lictor in squad.
*Zoanthropes: No change needed
*Doom of Malan'tai: No change needed.
*Pyrovore: Give Torrent to gun, -5 points and no Acid Maw.
*Ymgarls: +2 points, Assault grenades

TROOPS:
*Gants: Strangleweb goes to Strength 4, spinefists/Spike rifles free.
*Hormagants: -1 point, and -1 point to their upgrades (Toxin/Adrenal)
*Warriors: 2 wounds, T5.
*Genestealers: -2 ppm, give Broodlord 15 point ability to give squad Frag grenades.
*Rippers: Can contest, -2 points per model, Beasts.

FAST ATTACK:
*Gargoyles: No changes needed.
*Harpy: -15 points
*Shrikes: 4+ save, 5, 2 wounds, +5 points
*SkySlashers: See Rippers
*Raveners: 2 wounds, T5, access to Toxin/Adrenal
*Spore Mines: Can Deepstrike, scattering even on hit.

HEAVY SUPPORT:

*Trygon: Prime Upgrade grants ML1 psyker
*Mawloc: Scything Talons, give them the Trygons gun
*Biovores: No change
*Carnifex: -20 points
*Tyrannofex: -20 points, Rupture Cannon Ap. 3, BS 4
*Old One Eye: Can join Carnifex squad, grants IWND, -10 points.

*Mycetic Spore: Toughness 5

Wargear/Rules:

Venom Cannons: No Damage chart modifier, Ap 3
Barbed Strangler: Ap 4, Strength test for unit or pinned.
Deathspitters: Ap. 4
All Synapse Creatures are Pskers: ML 0 unless they have a higher ML (gives +1 to deny, and vulnerable to psychic checks)

New Psychic Powers:
Primaris: Onslaught: 24" Blessing, target unit may run, and then shoot OR assault
1. Catalyst grants +4 FNP, still 12" Blessing
2. Psychic Scream: 12" Malediction Unit targeted takes a LD. check (2d6), wounds if fails, and can't overwatch, must take Pinning check
3. Paroxysm: 24" Malediction, unit hit can only snap fire and is WS 1, must take pinning check.
4. The Horror: Self-Blessing, Any unit attempting to shoot the model (or unit) must take a Ld. check first, if fails may not shoot at all and must then take a Pinning Check.
5. Domination of Will: Malediction: All enemy units within 24" recieve -1 Ld. and -1 to Deny the Witch Rolls (DtW takes effect AFTER trying to Deny the "Domination" power)
6. Presense of the Hive Mind: ML 2, Self-Blessing. SitW and Synapse extend range by 12" on this model, gains +1 to DtW roll.

Note on powers above: Zoeys get Warp Lance, and 1 power. Doom keeps Cataclysm

Warlord Table:

1. Unknown Strategy: May modify reserve rolls by 1, + or -
2. Alien Strategy: One non-Warlord Nid unit may outflank, and rerolls side to determine where it comes in. (Swarmlord)
3. Aura of Despair: Enemy ICs in challenge with WL must roll Ld. check, if failed can't attack
4. Leader of Beasts: Warlords Synapse bubble grows by 6"
5. Bane of Sentience: Infantry in SitW range of Warlord are at -1 Ld.
6. Eater of Worlds: Warlord can score objectives

I really like the warlord traits for tyranids above, very appropriate!

Especially the Eater of Worlds. I would like to see one that lets the warlord put one or two units of Troops into ongoing reserve when they are wiped out (or maybe reduced to 10% or less of starting size).

The name Leader of Beasts could also be used here (mainly because I can't think of a better one!).

 jifel wrote:

All Synapse Creatures are Pskers: ML 0 unless they have a higher ML

If they have no mastery level, they can't hold warp charges and thus can't cast powers. What's the point of this?

 Wilytank wrote:

 jifel wrote:

All Synapse Creatures are Pskers: ML 0 unless they have a higher ML

If they have no mastery level, they can't hold warp charges and thus can't cast powers. What's the point of this?

Deny the Witch perhaps?

Makes sense that a creature with Synapse has a direct connection to the psychic prowess of the Hive Mind and can therefore Deny the Witch on a 5+ at the least.

Then why not just give them that ability? Like Adamantium will.

 Wilytank wrote:
Then why not just give them that ability? Like Adamantium will.

I'd be fine with that! However, it would make sense for them to be psykers for the purpose of special Rules, like GK anti-psychic stuff.

Been some suggestions I like, others I dislike but have enjoyed this discussion quite a bit.

Isengard said something that really made me start thinking when he mentioned tyranids taking fortification. Now, I just don't seem them really using fortifications, tyranids are a constant pressing the attack army, fluffwise. Even if they were defending something like spawning pools I imagine mobile troops and caretakers, although I did like the spore towers Forge World came up with. But those aren't fortifications either. But, what if tyranids developed a creature that was something like a mobile Aegis Defense line, to hide other creatures behind it as they pressed forward. A big, tough creature that sucks up firepower because the things behind it are protected. Or, well, they could, as others have mentioned, make Venomthropes an upgrade to a unit so they cannot be so easily killed.

I really would like to see Carnifex get an ability that if they kill a model on their initiative, they get to make an extra attack, if that kills then they get to make another until they fail to kill. I think its the BA Furioso Dreadnought that gets an ability similar to that, due to its claws. Seems very in keeping with the Carnifex fluff. Or maybe on each following combat they get 1 extra attack for each model they killed in the previous combat. Too much record keeping for my taste there though. And they need to be 2+ armor and 5+ invulnerable. Simply silly how easy they are to kill compared to the old days.

Certain synapse creatures gain eternal warrior. At the very least the Hive Tyrant should have it, but Warriors would be bitchin' with it.
Warriors in general need a massive buff, at least 1 of the following: Superior toughness, better armor save, an invul save or eternal warrior.

Also Genestealers should be able to assault straight out of Outflank/Infiltrate.