Now this is rich: Disney World is investigating news that a handful of upper-crust Manhattan moms have a pricey, secret way to get their kids to the front of the lines—and it’s not by bribing Mickey Mouse.
More on Shine: Disney Princess Makeover Sparks Outrage: Merida Petition Goes Viral
Instead, according to the New York Post, the moms pay $130 an hour to hire a disabled, “black-market” guide, who uses her position—sitting in a motorized scooter—to help entitled families gain special access to rides.
“On one hand, you can say she’s a great entrepreneur,” disability activist Kleo King, of the National Spinal Cord Injury Association, told Yahoo! Shine. “On the other hand, she’s kind of pimping herself out. And it’s outrageous she would help people commit fraud.”
Though the New York Post has no on-the-record sources in its shocking report, Disney is taking the matter seriously, according to spokesperson Bryan Malenius, who told Yahoo! Shine, “We are thoroughly reviewing the situation and will take appropriate steps to deter this type of activity." He added, "It is unacceptable to abuse accommodations that were designed for guests with disabilities."
More on Yahoo!: 6 Rejected Disney Theme Park Rides
The scheme of hiring out the disabled guide was uncovered by social anthropologist Wednesday Martin, a former New York Post contributor who was conducting research for a forthcoming book, “Primates of Park Avenue,” due out in 2014.
“It’s insider knowledge that very few have and share carefully,” Martin told the Post. “So when you’re doing it, you’re affirming that you are one of the privileged insiders who has and shares this information.” You’re also getting a good deal, as VIP tours offered by Disney, which include speed passes, start at $315 an hour.
“My daughter waited one minute to get on ‘It’s a Small World’ — the other kids had to wait 2 1/2 hours,” one unnamed mom bragged to the Post. “You can’t go to Disney without a tour concierge...This is how the 1 percent does Disney.”
A tour company singled out in the story as the family's guide denied using a disability to bypass lines. Both the tour company and Disney have not yet responded to Yahoo! Shine requests for comment.
But according to the park's official policy, guests using a wheelchair or motorized scooter, plus up to five members of their party, can use auxiliary entrances “intended to offer guests in wheelchairs or with trained service animals a more convenient entrance to the attraction” and are “not intended to bypass waiting lines.”
Still, the Post also reported that urban mothers have asked Divamoms website operator Lyss Stern how they might make their children appear handicapped in order to gain special disabled access. “I never understood how parents could have a clear conscience doing this,” Stern told the Post. And one parent, Matt Montesi of Atlanta, added that, after his 11-year-old with ADHD was granted a three-day Disney handicapped pass with a doctor's note, he was tempted to sell it on Craigslist. "People will pay bucks to circumvent the lines," he noted.
Yahoo forums on the topic turn up people who claim to have seen folks fake handicaps for special access. Wrote one commenter, who identified himself as a Disney employee, "There are ways that do allow you to bypass the line but I am not going to tell people because there are people who already abuse it and that pisses me and my fellow cast member off. Those people should be ashamed of themselves for doing it to. They disgust me every time I see them come through."
Using a false disability claim to skip lines is not a new trick, unfortunately. A recent Wall Street Journal story documented the trend of travelers requesting the use of complimentary wheelchairs in airports as a technique of getting pushed to the front of security lines, only to leap up and sprint to their gates once they have clearance. “We call them ‘miracles.’ They just start running with their heavy carry-ons," longtime wheelchair attendant Kenny Sanchez noted.
It’s also not unheard of at other amusement parks, apparently. King told Shine that, just the other day, she heard about someone who borrowed his grandmother’s wheelchair for his day at New Jersey’s Six Flags Great Adventure in order to avoid waiting in queues.
“It’s outrageous. This practice is hurting people with disabilities who legitimately can’t stand in line, as the more people who do it, the more resentful people get,” King explained. “Disney World and other places can’t really ask people about their disabilities in order to curtail fraud, so they have to take people at face value. But anytime fraud happens, it hurts people who really need services.”
First off, the thrust of the story, that rich people hire disabled guides, is based on zero on the record evidence. So, at most, it's rumors or gossip. Very plausible, but lets not get all Occupy Epcot over it just yet.
Secondly, as long as there is an incentive to appearing disabled, people will appear disabled. Even it means turning down opportunites they are capable of, refusing treatment, exaggerting, or outright feigning a disability, if there is a reward to be had, people will get it.
I'd wager that easily half the guest at these parks that have the chairs don't medically require them. I can assure you, getting a doctor's note is pretty easy.
Not driving, I was walking in the park, tripped over a curb at that park and twisted my leg........They gave me a complimentary wheelchair and i got to use the fast way for the rest of the trip.
Man a 130 an hour to hang out at Disney land? sounds like an awesome job for those who are legitimately disabled and have nothing better to do. (besides that medical bills are expensive)
Is even go as far as to say I've done that...sorta. My growth spurt happened hard and fast, so I was this really tall child. You know the worst part about being tall and like 10 years old? During Halloween when I went trick or treating with my friends I kept getting remarks on how I was a bit old to be trick or treating. Mind you I was wearing a mask and some sort of costume so all they could see was a tall person. Do I had a friend act disabled so I could say I was his brother guiding him around if people tried to guilt trip me.
I'm with Polonius on this one. We believe this because its about rich people doing something dispicable. If I wrote a story about how poor people are just lazy bums mooching off the state and didn't have a single source I'd be blasted for terrible journalism and being stupid.
Surprised it has taken this long to cotton on, to be honest. About twenty years or so ago, I went to Disney World in Orlando on a family holiday, accompanied by my step father and disabled mother, who is confined to a wheelchair. We managed to go on every single ride in the Magic Kingdom, Epcot and MGM studios in about 3 days because we never had to queue - straight in the disabled queue and straight to the front every time. Of course, whether my mum actually wanted to go on the ride or not was rather moot; she had no choice! Her face going down Splash Mountain or whatever its called was priceless.
That people will pay or hire someone to skip queues is hardly surprising to me. Even back then, there looked to me several families in the disabled queue with adults who looked decidedly able-bodied. They were easy to spot because they were in borrowed Disney wheelchairs. The truly crippled supply their own wheelchairs.
Grey Templar wrote: I don't know who's worse. The people paying the disabled guide or the disabled person hiring themselves out as a guide.
So hiring a guide, who has a legitimate disability is a bad thing.
I would love that kind of work if I were a person that needed the use of a wheelchair. $130 an hour would be a great wage.
Both parties are pretty deplorable, although I admit if I were bound to a wheelchair I'd be tempted to do it. $130 an hour to roll around Disney World would be a dream job.
Grey Templar wrote: I don't know who's worse. The people paying the disabled guide or the disabled person hiring themselves out as a guide.
So hiring a guide, who has a legitimate disability is a bad thing.
I would love that kind of work if I were a person that needed the use of a wheelchair. $130 an hour would be a great wage.
Both parties are pretty deplorable, although I admit if I were bound to a wheelchair I'd be tempted to do it. $130 an hour to roll around Disney World would be a dream job.
How is it deplorable?
A family gets a guide for Disney, and the person that needed the use of a wheelchair gets to make some money while showing a family around Disney. It is a win win.
Grey Templar wrote: I don't know who's worse. The people paying the disabled guide or the disabled person hiring themselves out as a guide.
So hiring a guide, who has a legitimate disability is a bad thing.
I would love that kind of work if I were a person that needed the use of a wheelchair. $130 an hour would be a great wage.
Both parties are pretty deplorable, although I admit if I were bound to a wheelchair I'd be tempted to do it. $130 an hour to roll around Disney World would be a dream job.
How is it deplorable?
A family gets a guide for Disney, and the person that needed the use of a wheelchair gets to make some money while showing a family around Disney. It is a win win.
Because the family is only hiring that guide on the grounds that said guide is handicapped. Thus, it is exploiting the handicapped person, to the detriment of everyone else.
And the said handicapped person is deliberately doing it. Which isn't fair to other handicapped patrons that genuinely use the services provided.
Although I've always thought it isn't fair for handicapped to get preferential treatment anyway. Isn't the point so they can do the same things everybody else does, not that they get preferential treatment.
First off, the thrust of the story, that rich people hire disabled guides, is based on zero on the record evidence. So, at most, it's rumors or gossip. Very plausible, but lets not get all Occupy Epcot over it just yet.
While I doubt I'd ever pay money for a guide like that, I really don't see the harm in it. The disabled person is making money to help their situation which I think is awesome.
And I will say I have a brother who is disabled and we took him to Disney and used the disabled pass and it was the most enjoyable Disney experience I or He could had. I got to ride space mountain 10 times in less than half an hour was glorious. And he got to ride the teacups without have a breakdown while waiting in line for an hour.
Sorry I don't see the problem. I do it all the time, theme parks, cinema, sporting events you name it. Disabled folks get some great seats at some great prices.
I my case its one of my best mates that gives me this advantage but if someone is willing to pay for a perfectly legal service that someone else is willing to provide then why not. Personal I feel its the rich mom's getting exploited here $130 an hour, why not shop around I'm sure you can find someone cheaper.
Getting to the front of the line isn't even the best part of it. In my experience once you get on a roller coaster the staff don't want to slow the whole ride down getting you off so you can just sit and ride it again and again until you get board. I think seven consecutive runs is the best we have managed so far
I don't agree with faking a disability though, that's a bit odious.
Right. But this is all at the expense of those who have been waiting in line themselves. The reason this process even exists is to allow the disabled and their families to be able to attend the rides. By pimping that benefit out, it is essentially just line-cutting. How is essentially line-cutting not an odious action?
Although, I am curious: why do the disabled get special access to begin with? Waiting in line in a wheelchair does not strike me as harder than standing in it, though I admit that I do not have a personal frame of reference for this.
azazel the cat wrote: Right. But this is all at the expense of those who have been waiting in line themselves. The reason this process even exists is to allow the disabled and their families to be able to attend the rides. By pimping that benefit out, it is essentially just line-cutting. How is essentially line-cutting not an odious action?
Although, I am curious: why do the disabled get special access to begin with? Waiting in line in a wheelchair does not strike me as harder than standing in it, though I admit that I do not have a personal frame of reference for this.
Many of the ride lines aren't Handicap accessible (stairs, narrow corrirdor, etc....) they have to go some alternate route, which obviously cuts the line.
azazel the cat wrote: Right. But this is all at the expense of those who have been waiting in line themselves. The reason this process even exists is to allow the disabled and their families to be able to attend the rides. By pimping that benefit out, it is essentially just line-cutting. How is essentially line-cutting not an odious action?
Although, I am curious: why do the disabled get special access to begin with? Waiting in line in a wheelchair does not strike me as harder than standing in it, though I admit that I do not have a personal frame of reference for this.
Many of the ride lines aren't Handicap accessible (stairs, narrow corrirdor, etc....) they have to go some alternate route, which obviously cuts the line.
Ah, hadn't thought of that. Makes sense.
Easy E wrote:Well, if you think this is disgusting are you equally opposed to people being able to pay a fee to get a "fast pass" to buy a shorter line?
Easy E wrote: Well, if you think this is disgusting are you equally opposed to people being able to pay a fee to get a "fast pass" to buy a shorter line?
Because that is happenign now at amusement parks across the country (and toll ways, but that is a different argument).
Essentially, people with money can move through the line faster for no other reasson than having more disposable income than the people waiting.
A fast pass for disney land is free, you just get one per ride per day. And it is only at a certain time you can ride.
azazel the cat wrote: Right. But this is all at the expense of those who have been waiting in line themselves. The reason this process even exists is to allow the disabled and their families to be able to attend the rides. By pimping that benefit out, it is essentially just line-cutting. How is essentially line-cutting not an odious action?
Although, I am curious: why do the disabled get special access to begin with? Waiting in line in a wheelchair does not strike me as harder than standing in it, though I admit that I do not have a personal frame of reference for this.
Many of the ride lines aren't Handicap accessible (stairs, narrow corrirdor, etc....) they have to go some alternate route, which obviously cuts the line.
Spot on, the lines on most rides, seating and access at stadiums etc etc are not even close to wheelchair accessible. Most roller-coasters have a lift for disabled access.
And as others have stated paying for a disabled person so you can skip lines is no more odious then paying for fast passes, the article even states that Disney offers its own VIP line skip guides from $315 an hour.
azazel the cat wrote: Right. But this is all at the expense of those who have been waiting in line themselves. The reason this process even exists is to allow the disabled and their families to be able to attend the rides. By pimping that benefit out, it is essentially just line-cutting. How is essentially line-cutting not an odious action?
Although, I am curious: why do the disabled get special access to begin with? Waiting in line in a wheelchair does not strike me as harder than standing in it, though I admit that I do not have a personal frame of reference for this.
Many of the ride lines aren't Handicap accessible (stairs, narrow corrirdor, etc....) they have to go some alternate route, which obviously cuts the line.
Spot on, the lines on most rides, seating and access at stadiums etc etc are not even close to wheelchair accessible. Most roller-coasters have a lift for disabled access.
And as others have stated paying for a disabled person so you can skip lines is no more odious then paying for fast passes, the article even states that Disney offers its own VIP line skip guides from $315 an hour.
Yup... so instead of paying Disney, why not pay a disabled person!
Go to Disney, and get paid for it! niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.
I'm with Jihadin and whembly on this one. People (doesn't matter rich or poor) figured out how to beat a system, I'm sure that disabled person would hire themselves out to someone of any "class" as long as they got their $130 an hour.
Isn't it weird how the "1%ers" instead of paying the stupid $320 for a speed pass VIP tour they wanted to go the cheap sleeze way and pay half price? For the 1%ers have the title of "VIP" is just too tempting to pass up. Thats why I think this is just an "attack the rich" story. The story may be true but it being about rich people has to be bs.
I wouldn't be upset if I was standing in line and got passed by these people, I'd be cursing myself wondering why I didn't think of that.
Newabortion wrote:I'm with Jihadin and whembly on this one. People (doesn't matter rich or poor) figured out how to beat a system, I'm sure that disabled person would hire themselves out to someone of any "class" as long as they got their $130 an hour.
Isn't it weird how the "1%ers" instead of paying the stupid $320 for a speed pass VIP tour they wanted to go the cheap sleeze way and pay half price? For the 1%ers have the title of "VIP" is just too tempting to pass up. Thats why I think this is just an "attack the rich" story. The story may be true but it being about rich people has to be bs.
I wouldn't be upset if I was standing in line and got passed by these people, I'd be cursing myself wondering why I didn't think of that.
Since you're already a fan of breaking the social contract, why take half-measures? Why not just assault your way to the front?
Newabortion wrote:I'm with Jihadin and whembly on this one. People (doesn't matter rich or poor) figured out how to beat a system, I'm sure that disabled person would hire themselves out to someone of any "class" as long as they got their $130 an hour.
Isn't it weird how the "1%ers" instead of paying the stupid $320 for a speed pass VIP tour they wanted to go the cheap sleeze way and pay half price? For the 1%ers have the title of "VIP" is just too tempting to pass up. Thats why I think this is just an "attack the rich" story. The story may be true but it being about rich people has to be bs.
I wouldn't be upset if I was standing in line and got passed by these people, I'd be cursing myself wondering why I didn't think of that.
Since you're already a fan of breaking the social contract, why take half-measures? Why not just assault your way to the front?
hotsauceman1 wrote: We are going in two weeks.
my moms said to my cousin, you can go for 2500$, im there thinking,
"Damn, I can get a manta with that.
Yeah... no gak.
The food costs are insane. There's a pizza joint by the Swan hotel that's reasonable. The least half of my vacation, that's all I had because the pizza was reasonable.
Look mentlegen, Disney Land asks you to pay them hundreds of dollars so you can stand around for hours at a time so you can sit on a two minute ride. Does it surprise you guys at all that people would try to find ways to get around this? It's human nature to try and pick the path of least resistance.
Are these people horrible? No. No one wants to stand in line. They are dishonest, yes, but not monsters. Methinks the reason why people are getting upset over this is that disabled people are involved.
Once, when I was a fat young kid, my feet were killing me after two hours of standing/walking at disney land. I actually got into a wheelchair because it was incredibly painful to walk (I don't have that issue anymore, thank god). It felt nice to get in front of the line.
azazel the cat wrote: Right. But this is all at the expense of those who have been waiting in line themselves.
Ignoring the wheelchair and "pay for free pass" thing, when I was at Disney 7 or 8 years ago, EVERYONE with a ticket could get one free pass per day.
At least, that's how I remember it. You just had to figure which ride was important enough for it. But then, I went in February and there were hardly any lines. Yay, no kids!
hotsauceman1 wrote: We are going in two weeks.
my moms said to my cousin, you can go for 2500$, im there thinking,
"Damn, I can get a manta with that.
Yeah... no gak.
The food costs are insane. There's a pizza joint by the Swan hotel that's reasonable. The least half of my vacation, that's all I had because the pizza was reasonable.
TBH, I dont want to go, I would rather spend the money on other things, like Tournaments and Conventions. But if i told my family that they would make me feel bad.
azazel the cat wrote: Right. But this is all at the expense of those who have been waiting in line themselves.
Ignoring the wheelchair and "pay for free pass" thing, when I was at Disney 7 or 8 years ago, EVERYONE with a ticket could get one free pass per day.
At least, that's how I remember it. You just had to figure which ride was important enough for it. But then, I went in February and there were hardly any lines. Yay, no kids!
Then, just be a single rider, they will just pull you out and put you ahead of other people.
hotsauceman1 wrote: We are going in two weeks.
my moms said to my cousin, you can go for 2500$, im there thinking,
"Damn, I can get a manta with that.
Yeah... no gak.
The food costs are insane. There's a pizza joint by the Swan hotel that's reasonable. The least half of my vacation, that's all I had because the pizza was reasonable.
TBH, I dont want to go, I would rather spend the money on other things, like Tournaments and Conventions. But if i told my family that they would make me feel bad.
azazel the cat wrote: Right. But this is all at the expense of those who have been waiting in line themselves.
Ignoring the wheelchair and "pay for free pass" thing, when I was at Disney 7 or 8 years ago, EVERYONE with a ticket could get one free pass per day.
At least, that's how I remember it. You just had to figure which ride was important enough for it. But then, I went in February and there were hardly any lines. Yay, no kids!
Then, just be a single rider, they will just pull you out and put you ahead of other people.
If you haven't been there before... I'd go. It's a cool place... really.
I even told her this is the last time im going, and if it wasnt for the whole family going, I would spend it on something else. Correct I am 20. My family likes disney land. I not as much. Maybe when i have my own kids, maybe, but not until then.
I've been to Tokyo Disneyland once and Disney Sea Tokyo once, and Eurodisney (but it was for a work conference.)
Both Tokyo venues were excellent, as we went in the off season and it was not too crowded. I would not put up with a wait of more than 10-15 minutes to get on a ride.
Eurodisney felt cheap and crappy, in comparison. The staff were very good, though. They don't employ anyone who doesn't who doesn't speak at least two languages.
The best thing about Eurodisney is you can get on a train and go to sleep until you are back in London. No changes.
hotsauceman1 wrote: It has been the only place my family goes on vacation. I have been 11 times.
Damn that's a lot of times and a whole lot of dollar for the same experience over and over again. Your obviously not that hard up, if you don't enjoy it any more why not suggest another destination. The whole world is out there to explore even staying within your own boarders offers unparalleled opportunities. Maybe if you showed a genuine interest in a destination, researched the place and presented it to your family as a alternative they might be up for it.
Personal I hate going to the same place even twice, if I'm going to spend all that money I would rather I spend it expanding my horizons.
hotsauceman1 wrote: I even told her this is the last time im going, and if it wasnt for the whole family going, I would spend it on something else. Correct I am 20. My family likes disney land. I not as much. Maybe when i have my own kids, maybe, but not until then.
hotsauceman1 wrote: It has been the only place my family goes on vacation. I have been 11 times.
Damn that's a lot of times and a whole lot of dollar for the same experience over and over again. Your obviously not that hard up, if you don't enjoy it any more why not suggest another destination. The whole world is out there to explore even staying within your own boarders offers unparalleled opportunities. Maybe if you showed a genuine interest in a destination, researched the place and presented it to your family as a alternative they might be up for it.
Personal I hate going to the same place even twice, if I'm going to spend all that money I would rather I spend it expanding my horizons.
I wish i could convince them of that, One of my cousins goes twice a year, another, three times a year before he had kids.
My family is just in love with it.
Im going to save up my savings and then go to a big trip net year for graduation from college, Even if i have to do it myself.
Newabortion wrote:I'm with Jihadin and whembly on this one. People (doesn't matter rich or poor) figured out how to beat a system, I'm sure that disabled person would hire themselves out to someone of any "class" as long as they got their $130 an hour. Isn't it weird how the "1%ers" instead of paying the stupid $320 for a speed pass VIP tour they wanted to go the cheap sleeze way and pay half price? For the 1%ers have the title of "VIP" is just too tempting to pass up. Thats why I think this is just an "attack the rich" story. The story may be true but it being about rich people has to be bs.
I wouldn't be upset if I was standing in line and got passed by these people, I'd be cursing myself wondering why I didn't think of that.
Since you're already a fan of breaking the social contract, why take half-measures? Why not just assault your way to the front?
Break what "social contract"?
The feth?
Bangbangboom wrote:Lol what social contract, that we are all equal?
Newabortion wrote:LOL WUT, stop trolling me dude.
I don't troll. Ya know that thing you do, where you wait in an orderly fashion, until it is your turn, and is exchange, everyone else also does as much? That's part of the tacit social contract that everyone abides by: you wait, and everyone waits, and thus we all get our turn. It's what prevents it from being like Disney World in FLA, wherein 400 teenagers from Brazil all rush the gate to the ride, and the whole scene looks like an even-more-chaotic, brightly-coloured riot.
EDIT: On a side note, I remember back in the '90s I was in Euro Disney, and it was awesome. You know that dream, where you're in Disneyland, and there's almost nobody else there and so you never have to wait for any rides? That's what Euro Disney was like. Except there was no Matterhorn or Space Mountain.
hotsauceman1 wrote: It has been the only place my family goes on vacation. I have been 11 times.
I have been to Disneyland more times than I can count, My Grandfather used to live in Florida, about an hour away from the Disney parks. Every summer, my dad would take two weeks Vacation off of work and drive us all down to see my grandfather for a week, and spend a week in disney. Sometimes we would go twice a year. I have been to Disney maybe 25 times or so, and I can not wait to go back. I love it there. It really is the happiest place on earth.
My parents are paying for another trip this Xmas so brother can renew his vows (I am officiating) at Christmas time. He got married at Disney 10 yrs ago.
It is so much fun, how can you not have fun there?
azazel the cat wrote: Because the family is only hiring that guide on the grounds that said guide is handicapped. Thus, it is exploiting the handicapped person, to the detriment of everyone else.
And? They are paying good money to have a guide and they are not hurting anyone.
Exploiting the handicapped? $130 an Hour is seriously a great wage and not exploitation.
I think it's a great idea on the part of the disabled guide.
Seriously, you're in a wheelchair and some rich family is taking you to disneyland and paying you $130/hr as well!
I asked one of my mates from the RAF who is in a chair now due to MS, he thought it was fantastic, and is looking into doing the same thing at Alton Towers
I don't see the problem.
Rich people want to skip the line, disabled person wants to make easy cash, everybody wins.
Disney are only upset because they are undercutting disneys own VIP passes.
Yeah, I personally see it as breaking the social contratc as well. No matter who you are, we are all equal in the queue. Very Canadian of me I know.
However, I live in America, so the Social Contratc is a bit different. If you can pay $$$$ for something of course you are tacitly "superior" to everyone and "deserve" to get moved past all the other people who can't pay the $$$.
In America, $$$$ makes you an inherently better person dontcha know.
hotsauceman1 wrote: It has been the only place my family goes on vacation. I have been 11 times.
I have been to Disneyland more times than I can count, My Grandfather used to live in Florida, about an hour away from the Disney parks. Every summer, my dad would take two weeks Vacation off of work and drive us all down to see my grandfather for a week, and spend a week in disney. Sometimes we would go twice a year. I have been to Disney maybe 25 times or so, and I can not wait to go back. I love it there. It really is the happiest place on earth.
My parents are paying for another trip this Xmas so brother can renew his vows (I am officiating) at Christmas time. He got married at Disney 10 yrs ago.
It is so much fun, how can you not have fun there?
IT is not that it isnt fun, It is, especially with kids. But It is nothing new, my mom asked why Im planning on going to resturants i havent been to then rides, I told her "I have been on every ride"
I just want something new, that is why for graduation next year it is vegas.
This will be really easy to fix. Let the disabled go through the special door to the front, but they still have to wait there while a disney employee goes through the line as a proxy. Then they switch at the front.
This way, the convenience is still there and the park is accommodating disabled guests, but they are not skipping in line.
Rented Tritium wrote: This will be really easy to fix. Let the disabled go through the special door to the front, but they still have to wait there while a disney employee goes through the line as a proxy. Then they switch at the front.
This way, the convenience is still there and the park is accommodating disabled guests, but they are not skipping in line.
And cost Disney more labor hours? Nah...
I really don't see this as a big deal. This is coming from a Dad who took his two young squigs to Disney last year by himself... and had to wait in line.
Rented Tritium wrote: This will be really easy to fix. Let the disabled go through the special door to the front, but they still have to wait there while a disney employee goes through the line as a proxy. Then they switch at the front.
This way, the convenience is still there and the park is accommodating disabled guests, but they are not skipping in line.
or the disabled person has to wait for the rest of their party. If they are a single, it doesn't matter that much as singles get to jump ahead a lot of times too.
HEck, you dont even have to be disable, My mom was carrying around a stroller with a 1 year old and a 3 year old.
They let her in(She was a 58 year old lady with my two young cousins)
Quite frankly, Why SHOULD disabled people wait? They have had alot of gak thrown at them, maybe just letting them cut is just something we can do.
Rented Tritium wrote: This will be really easy to fix. Let the disabled go through the special door to the front, but they still have to wait there while a disney employee goes through the line as a proxy. Then they switch at the front.
This way, the convenience is still there and the park is accommodating disabled guests, but they are not skipping in line.
And cost Disney more labor hours? Nah...
I really don't see this as a big deal. This is coming from a Dad who took his two young squigs to Disney last year by himself... and had to wait in line.
You're underestimating disney and their willingness to fix problems for money.
azazel the cat wrote: Because the family is only hiring that guide on the grounds that said guide is handicapped. Thus, it is exploiting the handicapped person, to the detriment of everyone else.
And? They are paying good money to have a guide and they are not hurting anyone.
Exploiting the handicapped? $130 an Hour is seriously a great wage and not exploitation.
1. They are hurting everyone else in line by forcing those people to wait even longer, just the same way a line-jumper hurts everyone.
2. You made two statements that should not be conflated. While $130 an hour is a great wage, it is still exploitation on its face.
The disabled person is getting paid because of their disability. How is this any different from a beautiful person getting paid by a designer to model clothes because of their beauty?
You only view it as exploitation because you believe a person with a disability should be able to offer more to society then helping the rich to skip a line.
Guess what they can! But in the given example someone has decided that they can gain more monetary reward this way.
It is the impatient person with to much disposable income being exploited here.
Bangbangboom wrote:The disabled person is getting paid because of their disability. How is this any different from a beautiful person getting paid by a designer to model clothes because of their beauty?
It's not. There are few industries with more exploitation than fashion. In fact only porn might take fashion's crown on that one, and even then that's only a "maybe".
azazel the cat wrote: Because the family is only hiring that guide on the grounds that said guide is handicapped. Thus, it is exploiting the handicapped person, to the detriment of everyone else.
And? They are paying good money to have a guide and they are not hurting anyone.
Exploiting the handicapped? $130 an Hour is seriously a great wage and not exploitation.
1. They are hurting everyone else in line by forcing those people to wait even longer, just the same way a line-jumper hurts everyone.
2. You made two statements that should not be conflated. While $130 an hour is a great wage, it is still exploitation on its face.
How is paying a disabled person cruel/exploitation?
They are not hurting anyone, as the disabled person is legally in the park, paid for a ticket, and gets the convenience of being able to ride the ride when they get to the ride.
Disney does this for persons in wheelchairs, they have for many many years.
I don't care about the disabled person. That's capitalism.
I care that people are paying extra money to skip lines at disney world. I don't care who that money is going towards, that is not a thing that should be possible. Disney is going to need to use line proxies to allow disabled people to stand in line without standing in line.
I do know some disabled people who wouldn't have the ability to actually wait 1 to 2 hours to get on a ride, simply because of the nature of their disability.
Disney isn't going to stop *linecutting*, because it brings in the bucks. They have a VIP service which does the same thing, it's just that the disabled people are undercutting.
Easy solution. Just allow the disabled person on the ride and the carer.
azazel the cat wrote: Because the family is only hiring that guide on the grounds that said guide is handicapped. Thus, it is exploiting the handicapped person, to the detriment of everyone else.
And? They are paying good money to have a guide and they are not hurting anyone.
Exploiting the handicapped? $130 an Hour is seriously a great wage and not exploitation.
1. They are hurting everyone else in line by forcing those people to wait even longer, just the same way a line-jumper hurts everyone.
2. You made two statements that should not be conflated. While $130 an hour is a great wage, it is still exploitation on its face.
How is paying a disabled person cruel/exploitation?
They are not hurting anyone, as the disabled person is legally in the park, paid for a ticket, and gets the convenience of being able to ride the ride when they get to the ride.
Disney does this for persons in wheelchairs, they have for many many years.
Don't strawman. I didn't say it was cruel, I said it was exploitation.
This process is hurting everyone who stands in line legitimately. If you consider time to be a commodity, then everyone in line has it stolen from them. If it was *just* the handicapped person who jumped the line, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But as it stands, there are people who evidently have been able to exploit the handicapped person's disability for their own gain. Whether or not said person is compensated is not particularly relevant to whether or not they are being exploited. The Indian kid that made your jeans was being compensated (poorly, however) for being exploited to do so, just like the naive farmgirl you watched getting fethed on camera was compensated for being exploited there.
One of my friends has a problem with his leg ligaments were he gets injured very often. He has come in w/ a leg support cast thing at least twice this year, and other times it was not as bad, but he said he couldn't walk for more than a few minutes w/ out facing extreme pain. He was working out a week before the bands disney trip. His group of friends got to get through all the lines, and I think he was pushed in the bands performance by a disney character. It was pretty awesome, and lucky. That is all.
Again: I didn't say it was cruel, I said it was exploitation.
Now, if you want to engage with the argument I've put forward, then let's discuss. But do not waste my time by trying to justify your obvious strawman. The situation described is obviously exploitive, but there is no cruelty involved. If you disagree with my sentiments on the issue, then let's hear why.
If you are going with the definition of "Make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource): " Then yes it was exploiting the person in a wheelchair, as they were making full use of and derive benefit from the person in the wheelchair.
If you are going with the definition of Use (a situation or person) in a selfish way:" Then yes it was exploiting the person in a wheelchair
If you are going with the definition of "use (a situation or person) in an unfair way:" Then no it is not exploitation.
So it is, in some definitions and it is not in others.
DeathReaper wrote:If you are going with the definition of "Make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource): " Then yes it was exploiting the person in a wheelchair, as they were making full use of and derive benefit from the person in the wheelchair.
If you are going with the definition of Use (a situation or person) in a selfish way:" Then yes it was exploiting the person in a wheelchair
If you are going with the definition of "use (a situation or person) in an unfair way:" Then no it is not exploitation.
So it is, in some definitions and it is not in others.
The situation is that they found a handicapped person that could get them to the front of the line, which is not fair to all the people who were waiting for their turn. Thus, it is exploitation no matter which definition you want use.
Do you have anything to contribute to the discussion at hand, or would you like to continue to try and derail the thread? Because so far you have failed to offer any counterpoint.
Well, I suppose that's a little subjective. I would say its not unfair to the disabled guide, they are getting paid damn good money to go to Disney World after all.
But, it is unfair to any disabled person who's just taking a vacation that more people are using the handicapped services and its unfair to the non-disabled people standing in line, although I would consider the latter part only a small concern.
Gonna be honest on like a 1-10 outrage scale, I'm feeling this at like a... 2 or maybe a 1.5. Is it an unfair exploitation of the system? Sure. Does "Cheating the lines at Disney whatever" rank anywhere on my list of "gak I care about"? Not at all.
I mean ideally you'd find a way to close the loophole, but it's probably not worth the effort to find a way to both close and remain fair to the disabled + their family and friends. Seriously
"Disabled woman takes money to help wealthy Americans cheat somewhat-less-wealthy Americans out their place in line at expensive amusement park" doesn't really rank very high on the injustice scale.
Reading the article it doesn't make it clear whether it was the disabled individual who came up with the idea of being a pass-for-hire, or if it was a someone with the cash to spare that suggested it.
Dreadclaw69 wrote:Reading the article it doesn't make it clear whether it was the disabled individual who came up with the idea of being a pass-for-hire, or if it was a someone with the cash to spare that suggested it.
Interesting.
I don't think it should be any less of an exploitation if the disabled individual came up with the idea, but for some reason, my outrage meter wants to add an extra point if that's not the case.
I guess it depends what you mean by exploitation. If you mean it in the narrow sense as use/utilisation, especially for profit, then you could say it is exploitation. However exploitation also has certain connotations when it comes to minority or disadvantaged groups, which can see them cast in the role of being acted upon rather than having the ability to act in their own interests.
Then again queue jumping is one thing that does annoy me (and one of the few times I'll admit that being an immigrant has an impact on my perspective )
I think those of you saying that it's not worth the cost to fix are GREATLY underestimating disney's commitment to perception.
Have you been to a disney park? They spend millions on things that don't individually pay for themselves all the time. That's their whole park model. They make all the details perfect at any expense, opting to improve the big picture instead of bean counting. Then they make it back when people come in droves.
The cost/benefit analysis for a disney park is completely different than a regular business.
Dreadclaw69 wrote:Reading the article it doesn't make it clear whether it was the disabled individual who came up with the idea of being a pass-for-hire, or if it was a someone with the cash to spare that suggested it.
Interesting.
I don't think it should be any less of an exploitation if the disabled individual came up with the idea, but for some reason, my outrage meter wants to add an extra point if that's not the case.
If the disabled people are doing it by their own free will and they feel no outrage, why do you feel the need to be outraged for them?
Dreadclaw69 wrote: I guess it depends what you mean by exploitation. If you mean it in the narrow sense as use/utilisation, especially for profit, then you could say it is exploitation. However exploitation also has certain connotations when it comes to minority or disadvantaged groups, which can see them cast in the role of being acted upon rather than having the ability to act in their own interests.
Then again queue jumping is one thing that does annoy me (and one of the few times I'll admit that being an immigrant has an impact on my perspective )
^This...
Are all exploitation inherently bad?
Are supermodels "exploited"? You can argue that... but, they get paid really well.
Frazzled wrote: Nine years ago, so things might be a bit different.
Yup. Now, there's a "FastPass" kiosk by most rides. What it does is "schedule" a block of time of when you can use the FastPass lane for that ride... usually an hour or two in the future.
I knew this ahead of time, so I was able to strategize my time to take advantage of that. The only "long line" that we were stuck in (and it was only 30 minutes), was that new Toy Story ride, which was popular as hell.
But disney will still stomp this out nonetheless because it's not a "friendly" behavior and knowing about it makes people less happy on average, which makes them buy less trinkets.
Basically anything that detracts from the magic and suspension of disbelief is something that they have a huge interest in stopping.
But disney will still stomp this out nonetheless because it's not a "friendly" behavior and knowing about it makes people less happy on average, which makes them buy less trinkets.
Basically anything that detracts from the magic and suspension of disbelief is something that they have a huge interest in stopping.
My suspension of disbelief ends when I enter that first 45+ minute line
I remember visiting Alton Towers (In the UK, for those unaware) with my school a few years back, one of my friends had broken a leg a few days beforehand, so he was in one of those hire wheelchairs. He was able to skip the queue, but only with one other person (designated by an armband, so you couldn't just take turns). It annoyed me at the time (because he didn't choose me to accompany him ) But reading through this topic, it's an idea I like, and it strikes me as a good compromise.
Tibbsy wrote: I remember visiting Alton Towers (In the UK, for those unaware) with my school a few years back, one of my friends had broken a leg a few days beforehand, so he was in one of those hire wheelchairs. He was able to skip the queue, but only with one other person (designated by an armband, so you couldn't just take turns). It annoyed me at the time (because he didn't choose me to accompany him ) But reading through this topic, it's an idea I like, and it strikes me as a good compromise.
What do you guys think of it?
It gets around the problem of selling access, but it then splits up the family as one parent is with the disabled child while the other is alone or with the others in a line that could stretch back an hour or so.
Dreadclaw69 wrote:Reading the article it doesn't make it clear whether it was the disabled individual who came up with the idea of being a pass-for-hire, or if it was a someone with the cash to spare that suggested it.
Interesting.
I don't think it should be any less of an exploitation if the disabled individual came up with the idea, but for some reason, my outrage meter wants to add an extra point if that's not the case.
If the disabled people are doing it by their own free will and they feel no outrage, why do you feel the need to be outraged for them?
Because this behavior hurts us all as a society. My outrage may jump from a 2 to a 3 (don't assume it starts North of 5, please).
This behavior hurts those waiting in line legitimately.
This behavior hurts the disbaled by breeding resentment towards them.
This behavior hurts Disney by undercutting their VIP passes and creating animosity that is bad for business.
Didn't read the *entire* thread, and I honestly can't say that this is surprising, or even news (though the complete lack of credible sources rings off alarm bells). I just wanted to add this...
“It’s insider knowledge that very few have and share carefully,”
