20774
Post by: pretre
http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2013/05/23/space-marine-codex-rumors/ Well apparently they are going to break up the dex so it’s not ultra marines heavy, they will have more generic characters then bring out expansions with characters and paint jobs for different chapters, same with the Eldar
So you buy the codex, then get the white scars expansion that gives you upgrades, characters etc. Now this fist come from my [deleted] buddy, it came from another source, but he seems to think that it going to happen.
So according to him the Eldar dex is coming out then there will a Ithilian (spelt wrong) expansionYou will need both books to play with themThis will also happen with the SM
Also there will be a integration of some things from FW into the new dex (weapons mostly) to expand on the current system. As well as a lot more upgrade options, givin ou a tone more flexibility with your lists (like the tau, demons crons did) All these dexes are bringing the game up to 6th Ed rule standard.
So ALL the dexes will be upgraded before they are done (GK, IMPS, NIDS, ORKS, SISTERS, BA, BT) But (if the ruinous are true) then the expansions will work with the dex for Imp Fist, White Scars, Ultramarines, etc.This is not official, my mate from [Deleted] [deleted] says they are gearing up For the next HH book (coming out Xmas) so will keep you posted on that, but it had Corax, Vulkan, the Gorgon as the three primarchs.
Plus a load of new awesome mecanicum, oh plus they have released a new Titan above a war lord but not a emporer, but for the life of me can’t remember the name.
Comes out in the battle of calth(The big ultramarine planet the word bearers invade)
Will let you knowHH book is scheduled for next year, Xmas will see mortarion An I think that’s about ItThe FW stuff I true The SM rumors are rumors But sound very plausible
Oh prob going to be a large Contemptor dread as well.
Hadn't seen this elsewhere. http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2013/05/28/rumors-space-marines-genestealer-cults-and-forge-world-oh-my/ Rumors for you, rumors for me!
So, some more rumors for us to pontificate upon. Perhaps even ruminate over! Other big words about thinking, yes!
So anyway, here’s the scoop. Our source hit me up this morning to let me know some more goodies he or she had been told from their source who works for a certain large miniatures manufacturer in some capacity (sorry to be so vague, just don’t want to lose the lead on good info). This source has proven to be very reliable in the past, telling us about Adeptus Mechanicus at FW before it hit, among others, most of which have turned out to be accurate. Some of what this individual has told us has also turned out to not be accurate, but with rumors it is hard to judge. They could be accurate at one point in time and then plans change, or they could be a version of the truth, etc. All I can say is that I trust this source as it is a person I go way, way back with. That said, these are just rumors after all folks, so salt and all that.
During the course of our conversation, we covered a number of topics, and this is a bit of a summation. For one, I was told that my guesses about possible “mini-dexes” for the Chaos Space Marines to further explore the Legions may in fact be true. What that means I can only speculate on as my source didn’t know anything else. Rules? Fluff? Art? All of the above? None of the above? I can’t say at this point in time, although I fervently hope it means legion specific rules. I think we will learn a lot from the Iyanden Eldar supplement that is coming out in mere days. What I have heard about that book so far is that it is both physical and digital, and that is has rules and fluff specific to Iyanden, which makes sense as GW just invested so much money into producing the Wraithknight, Wraithguard/Blades, Spirit Seer, etc. and woudl want to maximize profit for that release. I think that this book will be a good indication as to the future direction of these “mini-dexes” we’ve been hearing about since before 6th ed hit. We’ve had steady rumors on this topic now for over a year.
Which is a nice segue into our next topic! I was told that Genestealer Cults are indeed in the works. This is a rumor that has been corroborated by another source we have that is also a very trustworthy point of information and as such I am thinking these rumors are looking highly plausible. What I was told more specifically was that the IP for Genestealer Cults may not actually belong to GW, and that a company patented the idea/IP/models/something like that in the 90′s thinking that GW would buy the rights to the idea. GW did not and as such the idea has sat untouched since then.
As I was told, this patent expires next year….coincidentally right about the time GW plans to release Tyranids! So, GW’s plan as it was related to me, is to try to acquire the IP once the patent is up, or to release Genestealer Cult units under another name. That would be pretty cool and an Iyanden like supplement for them would be pretty awesome, IMO. Plus that means the bugs would have access to an entirely new type of build with, if it happens and turns out to be anything like the Genestealer Cults of days past, vehicles and…a mother f#$%(@n Limousine! Yeah buddy, the Magus rolled in style, son! I’f put a gold grille and spinners on mine, of course.
This lead into a talk about the Space Marine giant robot that has been rumored to be on the way. This has been repeated many times now by multiple sources, and seeing as how every army has been getting a giant dude/monster/robot on an oval base, I don’t think this is going to surprise anyone. As Space Marines are far and away the best selling army in any of GW’s game systems, making one of these would be like printing money. As to what it is, what I keep hearing is a “giant Contemptor Dreadnought.”
I asked if he thought GW would port over more FW units directly into the dex like we saw with IG, and he said he thought no. The reason stated is that he was told FW took a major hit on the Baneblade. Apparently it was one of the best, if not the best, selling kits Forgeworld had prior to the superior and cheaper GW plastic kit. The thought process was to introduce FW type kits to GW retail outlets and FLGS’ at a more affordable price point to increase awareness of FW style products. Apparently the idea backfired as it killed sales on the Baneblade. The end result was a major loss for FW’s bottom line with a relatively minor increase to GW’s. I was told as a result of this the acting CEO of FW at the time resigned/was asked to resign. I tried to verify this on Google, but couldn’t find who the acting CEO of FW was when the Baneblade was released. If anyone knows and could verify this, that would be great.
So at any rate, FW and GW are not overlapping models any more as they end of competing with themselves and cannibalizing sales from one another. As such, plans for a plastic Thunderbolt that were in the works were scrapped.
Speculation: if the above is true, that would explain why we have not, and likely will not see plastic T-Hawks, Warhounds, etc. What we are getting are these new, unique models such as the Wraithknight (anyone remember the frequent rumors of a plastic Revenant Titan that were floating around for years?). Could the Storm Raven be what became of the rumored plastic T-Hawk? It does look like a squished T-Hawk and with 3D sculpting on computers these days, I imagine it would be fairly easy to do for one with the appropriate skill-set.
I am of course just guessing here, but it seems very plausible to me that in an effort to not cannibalize their own sales–which makes sense–GW is instead using their ever improving plastic manufacturing capabilities, and predilection for retconning the fluff as needed to introduce new models, to get the best of both worlds. Big, new, relatively affordable plastic kits (compared to FW) that have proven to be popular in both 40K and Fantasy seems like an intelligent compromise. This leaves FW to do their thing, acting as the “Infiniti” to GW’s Nissan in the greater corporate brand. With the new version of Apocalypse rumored on the horizon, and it’s huge popularity upon release, it makes sense to me to make these big kits more accessible to GW’s larger consumer base.
What say you all?
72185
Post by: zatazuken
That would be really interesting if it did work out that way. I'm curious, that's for sure. It would definitely be nice to see some Sisters and BA love too, though.
20774
Post by: pretre
Frontline hasn't really posted a lot of rumors in the past. The ones it did were both false (FW in GW Stores and FW in normal 40k.)
This one is very salty.
39712
Post by: Neronoxx
Agreed. This one sounds false, especially as he believes the new eldar supplement is required to play iyanden (which is incorrect.)
8230
Post by: UltraPrime
Salty, but I could see it happening. Will keep an eye on this.
44272
Post by: Azreal13
As a broad concept, I like it. An easy way to give extra flavour to the original legion chapters and their successors without taking anything away from anyone else. Would also generate extra cash for GW, which I would never begrudge them for a well executed, reasonably priced (right!) product.
I don't have much faith in the rumour, but I do like the idea.
14698
Post by: Lansirill
It's an idea that people have floated around for awhile, and with the Iyanden supplement rumors everyone is expecting it. If Iyanden turns out to be something with a special army list and (maybe) units, I'll believe they're moving in this direction. If not, probably not.
Frankly considering we already had one special chapter get its own full codex (Dark Angels) in 6th edition I'm not holding my breath.
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
Oh my God! GW deleted his buddy! 
56307
Post by: unmercifulconker
Individual books to cater to each chapters unique aspects? I love you GW.
Have to buy both to play that one chapter? I dislike you GW.
I can easily see this being done for BT and I will pay without a second thought. Nothing shall stop my crusade.
7375
Post by: BrookM
Let me guess, the expansions are iJunk device exclusives like with that Eldar thing, right?
20774
Post by: pretre
 BrookM wrote:Let me guess, the expansions are iJunk device exclusives like with that Eldar thing, right?
We don't even know if that Iyanden codex is digital exclusive yet.
25300
Post by: Absolutionis
 unmercifulconker wrote:Individual books to cater to each chapters unique aspects? I love you GW.
Have to buy both to play that one chapter? I dislike you GW.
That's the way it originally was. You had to buy Codex: Space Marines for the base rules and then Codex: Green Marines for the modified Green Marines rules that constantly referenced the base codex. It's only recently that GW decided to release standalone codecies for Space Marines that happen to be painted Green, Silver, Red, or Black.
Then again, codecies also didn't cost $50 back then. It's disappointing that people that painted their Space Marines black will have to shell out $100 for two books in order to play their color variant.
56307
Post by: unmercifulconker
It would just be stupid to make these digitally exclusive, do we all have to buy Ipads and bring them to every match? 
108
Post by: Orinoco
 Absolutionis wrote: unmercifulconker wrote:Individual books to cater to each chapters unique aspects? I love you GW.
Have to buy both to play that one chapter? I dislike you GW.
That's the way it originally was. You had to buy Codex: Space Marines for the base rules and then Codex: Green Marines for the modified Green Marines rules that constantly referenced the base codex. It's only recently that GW decided to release standalone codecies for Space Marines that happen to be painted Green, Silver, Red, or Black.
Then again, codecies also didn't cost $50 back then. It's disappointing that people that painted their Space Marines black will have to shell out $100 for two books in order to play their color variant.
44272
Post by: Azreal13
Absolutionis wrote: unmercifulconker wrote:Individual books to cater to each chapters unique aspects? I love you GW.
Have to buy both to play that one chapter? I dislike you GW.
That's the way it originally was. You had to buy Codex: Space Marines for the base rules and then Codex: Green Marines for the modified Green Marines rules that constantly referenced the base codex. It's only recently that GW decided to release standalone codecies for Space Marines that happen to be painted Green, Silver, Red, or Black.
Then again, codecies also didn't cost $50 back then. It's disappointing that people that painted their Space Marines black will have to shell out $100 for two books in order to play their color variant.
Wha?
Admittedly I was out of the hobby for a while, so this may have happened, but there's certainly no "originally" about it.
Codex Space Wolves, Angels Of Death and Ultramarines existed in 2nd and were stand alone codexes for their relevant chapters.
41311
Post by: ashikenshin
I would repaint my blues into blacks if the rules/fluff are sweet... probably not
20774
Post by: pretre
Yeah, azreal13 is correct.
2nd edition had full codexes.
3rd edition had C:SM and then tiny add-on codexes that required C:SM to use.
On a side note:
The funny thing is that even though people complain about the 5th edition codex being 'C: Ultramarines', it has less fluff and characters for ultramarines as a percentage of all the fluff and characters in the book than any other C:SM book.
59176
Post by: Mathieu Raymond
If this is true, and that each book costs the 50$ we're now seeing, the base retail price point to even play one of those armies has risen to, what... 180$. That's without a single mini bought yet.
Salt indeed.
20774
Post by: pretre
 Mathieu Raymond wrote:If this is true, and that each book costs the 50$ we're now seeing, the base retail price point to even play one of those armies has risen to, what... 180$. That's without a single mini bought yet.
Salt indeed.
$50 main codex
$50 Sublist codex
=$180???
What am I missing?
402
Post by: Krinsath
 pretre wrote: Mathieu Raymond wrote:If this is true, and that each book costs the 50$ we're now seeing, the base retail price point to even play one of those armies has risen to, what... 180$. That's without a single mini bought yet.
Salt indeed.
$50 main codex
$50 Sublist codex
=$180???
What am I missing?
A BRB, which the codexes need to be useful.
39712
Post by: Neronoxx
pretre wrote: Mathieu Raymond wrote:If this is true, and that each book costs the 50$ we're now seeing, the base retail price point to even play one of those armies has risen to, what... 180$. That's without a single mini bought yet.
Salt indeed.
$50 main codex
$50 Sublist codex
=$180???
What am I missing?
$80 bucks.
67367
Post by: MajorStoffer
If the pricing structure is correct, and it's $50 for the add-on, and iPad only, it'll flop.
That both prices people out of getting what they want, and most of your customers can't even purchase it if they want to. However, since the production costs will be basically nil, it'll still generate some revenue for GW.
I do know it'll piss off a lot of people who can't play their marine variant they've had for years if that's the approach. It's one thing to offer digital alternatives with additional content on the iPad, but to offer such attractive content only on an expensive device not many people own (and increasingly iPad competitors are taking their chunk out of the market, being cheaper and more flexible) is rather foolish. In fact, it's the epitome of "GW doesn't like money" gag which has persisted for some time. They literally don't want you to purchase their product unless you also have a $400+ iPad.
I don't know about you, but i'd much rather spend that amount of disposable income (if I had it) in one go on a big Forgeworld order or something, the iPad holds little to no appeal for me, and even if I were to exchange my cheap netbook I use for univeristy for a tablet, I'd get an android or, hell, windows one for significantly less. GW products aren't going to encourage me to buy an overpriced piece of apple junk.
If this becomes a common enough policy, what I might see happening is my local group buying one for the group with all the supplements, "donating" it to the store for general use, but that's pretty doubtful unless GW really compartmentalizes codex production with all sorts of variant lists, which in of itself is doubtful. The rumourmill still says these supplements are fluff and painting mostly.
7680
Post by: oni
pretre wrote: Mathieu Raymond wrote:If this is true, and that each book costs the 50$ we're now seeing, the base retail price point to even play one of those armies has risen to, what... 180$. That's without a single mini bought yet.
Salt indeed.
$50 main codex
$50 Sublist codex
=$180???
What am I missing?
^Rulebook.
I really really hope this is all false. It's such a terrible way to go. It will only please a very small amount of players. There are A LOT of people who purchase all of the books (like me) who would stop buying them altogether. GW had tried this back in 3rd edition and the concept failed miserably.
20774
Post by: pretre
Oh, duh. My bad.
8230
Post by: UltraPrime
Not only are people panicing over an early rumour, but now they are reading restrictions into it that have not been mentioned! Unbelievable.
20774
Post by: pretre
UltraPrime wrote:Not only are people panicing over an early rumour, but now they are reading restrictions into it that have not been mentioned! Unbelievable.
Completely par for the course.
67367
Post by: MajorStoffer
UltraPrime wrote:Not only are people panicing over an early rumour, but now they are reading restrictions into it that have not been mentioned! Unbelievable.
It's basic cynic reasoning; when one expects the worst, at worst, one's expectations are met and dissapointment is avoided. If anything better occurs, one is pleasently surprised.
Unfortunately, GW has a tendency to somehow create scenarios worse then I envisage.
14698
Post by: Lansirill
 MajorStoffer wrote:UltraPrime wrote:Not only are people panicing over an early rumour, but now they are reading restrictions into it that have not been mentioned! Unbelievable.
It's basic cynic reasoning; when one expects the worst, at worst, one's expectations are met and dissapointment is avoided. If anything better occurs, one is pleasently surprised.
Unfortunately, GW has a tendency to somehow create scenarios worse then I envisage.
Games Workshop has developed a working boltgun.
Awesome! When can I get one?
They're sending one to your house as we speak.
50832
Post by: Sigvatr
Integration of FW in the codex.
Get me a truckload of salt to dump on that rumor!
1185
Post by: marv335
I suspect the "integration of FW into the codex" may be the Hyperios whirlwind for a spot of anti air.
7375
Post by: BrookM
Or just giving regular Whirlies access to flakk missiles.
42470
Post by: SickSix
You have got to be kidding. ... I stopped reading as soon as it said I would need two books to play certain lists.
20774
Post by: pretre
NM, apparently you were talking about price.
10953
Post by: JohnnyHell
How do we even know it's a 'sublist codex' and not, say, essentially a campaign sourcebook, with a bunch of scenarios, fluff, a few tweaked/unique units that are fluffy but not make or break? Folk pay ludicrous amounts for sourcebooks for RPGs etc. all the time.
7375
Post by: BrookM
pretre wrote: SickSix wrote:You have got to be kidding. ... I stopped reading as soon as it said I would need two books to play certain lists.
Weren't around in 3rd edition?
Aye, but then it was €25 for a codex and €17,50 for the supplemental one.
With the prices now however,  off.
42470
Post by: SickSix
pretre wrote: SickSix wrote:You have got to be kidding. ... I stopped reading as soon as it said I would need two books to play certain lists.
Weren't around in 3rd edition?
Codexes didn't cost $50 back then. And actually as mentioned you would need 3 books. Dont forget the 80 dollar rule book.
20774
Post by: pretre
edit: Well, apparently that was what SickSix meant, even though he didn't originally post it. Fair enough then, I will retract. I'm not going to get into the silly price arguments since we have multiple threads on that and it is kind of off-topic here.
42470
Post by: SickSix
 JohnnyHell wrote:How do we even know it's a 'sublist codex' and not, say, essentially a campaign sourcebook, with a bunch of scenarios, fluff, a few tweaked/unique units that are fluffy but not make or break? Folk pay ludicrous amounts for sourcebooks for RPGs etc. all the time.
Do RPGs require a $300+ investment in models to use those books as well?
44326
Post by: DeffDred
SickSix wrote: JohnnyHell wrote:How do we even know it's a 'sublist codex' and not, say, essentially a campaign sourcebook, with a bunch of scenarios, fluff, a few tweaked/unique units that are fluffy but not make or break? Folk pay ludicrous amounts for sourcebooks for RPGs etc. all the time.
Do RPGs require a $300+ investment in models to use those books as well?
It does if you use play mats and figures to represent placement.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Yeah no. I don't see them releasing sub-list books. The rumour report rings as wishlisting (integration with FW? No...).
8778
Post by: HisDivineShadow
 DeffDred wrote: SickSix wrote: JohnnyHell wrote:How do we even know it's a 'sublist codex' and not, say, essentially a campaign sourcebook, with a bunch of scenarios, fluff, a few tweaked/unique units that are fluffy but not make or break? Folk pay ludicrous amounts for sourcebooks for RPGs etc. all the time.
Do RPGs require a $300+ investment in models to use those books as well?
It does if you use play mats and figures to represent placement.
Real Rpgs don't use minis. Its in your head. If you are using minis its a fething board game. Or an extremely detailed skirmish.
Back in my day, anyway
44326
Post by: DeffDred
 HisDivineShadow wrote: DeffDred wrote: SickSix wrote: JohnnyHell wrote:How do we even know it's a 'sublist codex' and not, say, essentially a campaign sourcebook, with a bunch of scenarios, fluff, a few tweaked/unique units that are fluffy but not make or break? Folk pay ludicrous amounts for sourcebooks for RPGs etc. all the time.
Do RPGs require a $300+ investment in models to use those books as well?
It does if you use play mats and figures to represent placement.
Real Rpgs don't use minis. Its in your head. If you are using minis its a fething board game. Or an extremely detailed skirmish.
Back in my day, anyway
When you have children and older players playing together it's easier to explain to them "okay you are... here. the goblins are here."
Rather than, "Okay Jimmy you're 7 and a half meters from the goblin that just walked through the door to the left of the statue with the crystal on top of it."
Without any physical representation RPGs are basically playing pretend. You'd be better off running around in the backyard making sound effects.
550
Post by: Clang
A basic marine codex followed by chapter-specific add-ons would make more sense if GW hadn't just given us a shiny DA standalone codex. Sure, If GW ever decide to go this route, then there'll be a many-year period when some chapters used the basic marine codex and some didn't, but right now seems an odd time to do so.
Just maybe I can see it being done for obscure chapters only, on the grounds that they don't justify the cost of a standalone codex.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
HisDivineShadow wrote:Real Rpgs don't use minis. Its in your head. If you are using minis its a fething board game. Or an extremely detailed skirmish.
That's a load of nonsense, but in any case you're still partially right. No RPG requires hundreds of dollars of minis, except if done by choice.
59176
Post by: Mathieu Raymond
DeffDred wrote: HisDivineShadow wrote: DeffDred wrote: SickSix wrote: JohnnyHell wrote:How do we even know it's a 'sublist codex' and not, say, essentially a campaign sourcebook, with a bunch of scenarios, fluff, a few tweaked/unique units that are fluffy but not make or break? Folk pay ludicrous amounts for sourcebooks for RPGs etc. all the time.
Do RPGs require a $300+ investment in models to use those books as well?
It does if you use play mats and figures to represent placement.
Real Rpgs don't use minis. Its in your head. If you are using minis its a fething board game. Or an extremely detailed skirmish.
Back in my day, anyway
When you have children and older players playing together it's easier to explain to them "okay you are... here. the goblins are here."
Rather than, "Okay Jimmy you're 7 and a half meters from the goblin that just walked through the door to the left of the statue with the crystal on top of it."
Without any physical representation RPGs are basically playing pretend. You'd be better off running around in the backyard making sound effects.
Yeah, shocking that modern RPG players be required to use math to envision any kind of circumstances. I used to love charting movement just by doing the math. We stopped using minis in my Dark Heresy group... but for an entirely different reason. One of the players' so min-maxed, no one ever gets even a chance at touching us.
Back on-topic. It does indeed sound like wishlisting. Not that I'm saying GW cares, but including a limited access product like FW into 40K books would most probably create a greater cleavage between the haves and have-nots of our community. Or again, I'm extrapolating too much and it won't change much.
But campaign books, if they're not ridiculously limited edition like the last one was, I wouldn't mind seeing that. It would be... cinematic?
60281
Post by: FarseerAndyMan
I think the Marine codex will be similar to the 4th ed codex, where you can sorta "build your own chapter".
Supplemental books are a good idea, just cuz they are out doesnt mean you have to use them.
6372
Post by: Marik Law
Rumour has it Chapter Tactics will be bundled deals and will be purchasable via points. No mix and match customization from what I hear. Each Chapter Tactic seems to get bundled with 1-2 generic USRs or unique special rules based on a pre-defined chapter (Imperial Fists supposedly get Tank Hunters alongside a new version of Bolter Drill, for example).
EDIT: As for separate add-ons, GW is only just testing the water with Eldar. Even if we're lucky the add-on released with Space Marines will probably be Black Templars.
50140
Post by: Sir Samuel Buca
I'm taking this with a lot of salt. It sounds more like a wishlist than a reliable rumour.
8230
Post by: UltraPrime
 Marik Law wrote:Rumour has it Chapter Tactics will be bundled deals and will be purchasable via points. No mix and match customization from what I hear. Each Chapter Tactic seems to get bundled with 1-2 generic USRs or unique special rules based on a pre-defined chapter (Imperial Fists supposedly get Tank Hunters alongside a new version of Bolter Drill, for example).
EDIT: As for separate add-ons, GW is only just testing the water with Eldar. Even if we're lucky the add-on released with Space Marines will probably be Black Templars.
When you say 'rumour has it...', is this a rumour you just started? If not, can you give us a lionk to this other rumour please.
6372
Post by: Marik Law
UltraPrime wrote: Marik Law wrote:Rumour has it Chapter Tactics will be bundled deals and will be purchasable via points. No mix and match customization from what I hear. Each Chapter Tactic seems to get bundled with 1-2 generic USRs or unique special rules based on a pre-defined chapter (Imperial Fists supposedly get Tank Hunters alongside a new version of Bolter Drill, for example).
EDIT: As for separate add-ons, GW is only just testing the water with Eldar. Even if we're lucky the add-on released with Space Marines will probably be Black Templars.
When you say 'rumour has it...', is this a rumour you just started? If not, can you give us a lionk to this other rumour please.
No, I did not just start it. Was stated by 75Hastings69.
75Hastings69 wrote:Not being into 40k I don't know what the "traits system" is, however here's what I've heard for the SM codex, you choose a chapter and that choice confers a bonus/bonuses to your army e.g. My imperial fists get tank hunter and bolter drill. Is that similar to what you mean?
Link: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?368114-Hastings-40k-rumours
2776
Post by: Reecius
pretre wrote:Frontline hasn't really posted a lot of rumors in the past. The ones it did were both false ( FW in GW Stores and FW in normal 40k.)
This one is very salty.
Haha, we've posted more rumors than that 
We called Adeptus Mechanicus before FW released it, we also called a lot of other stuff, and FW was sold in GW stores, but hey, who's counting?
This source has proven to be quite reliable.
11558
Post by: Uriels_Flame
I said this is what they would do in my comments in the Eldar thread yesterday.
They will only stop when folks refuse to buy - obviously this has not occurred.
For those surprised this would occur: bezinga.
20774
Post by: pretre
 Reecius wrote: pretre wrote:Frontline hasn't really posted a lot of rumors in the past. The ones it did were both false ( FW in GW Stores and FW in normal 40k.)
This one is very salty.
Haha, we've posted more rumors than that
We called Adeptus Mechanicus before FW released it, we also called a lot of other stuff, and FW was sold in GW stores, but hey, who's counting?
This source has proven to be quite reliable.
Links and ill give you credit. 
25300
Post by: Absolutionis
Anyone else find it oddly suspicious that this Codex: Space Marine + supplements rumor didn't pop up until the out-of-nowhere Iyanden supplement was revealed?
50140
Post by: Sir Samuel Buca
Absolutionis wrote:Anyone else find it oddly suspicious that this Codex: Space Marine + supplements rumor didn't pop up until the out-of-nowhere Iyanden supplement was revealed?
I was thinking that too. It just sounds like someone's had a good idea of what GW will do and then decided to tell everyone that this will totally happen. Guyz I am totally serious, it's gunna happen, Tom Kirby told me himself over dinner with Marneus Calgar last night in Atlantis.
115
Post by: Azazelx
Absolutionis wrote: unmercifulconker wrote:Individual books to cater to each chapters unique aspects? I love you GW.
Have to buy both to play that one chapter? I dislike you GW.
That's the way it originally was. You had to buy Codex: Space Marines for the base rules and then Codex: Green Marines for the modified Green Marines rules that constantly referenced the base codex. It's only recently that GW decided to release standalone codecies for Space Marines that happen to be painted Green, Silver, Red, or Black.
Then again, codecies also didn't cost $50 back then. It's disappointing that people that painted their Space Marines black will have to shell out $100 for two books in order to play their color variant.
Well, not originally. 2nd Edition had full codices for Ultramarines (which was the default SM codex), Space Wolves and Angels of Death (Blood and Dark). 3rd Edition went to Codex Space marines with thin, cheap mini-codices that added on the extra rules. Staple-bound, about 32 pages each. Barely any fluff, and mostly just the army lists. Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Assassins (thinner, but free in a WD!), Craftworld Eldar, Armageddon. There might be a couple of others, but I can't find them in my bookshelf, nor think of what they might be.
6372
Post by: Marik Law
 Azazelx wrote: Absolutionis wrote: unmercifulconker wrote:Individual books to cater to each chapters unique aspects? I love you GW.
Have to buy both to play that one chapter? I dislike you GW.
That's the way it originally was. You had to buy Codex: Space Marines for the base rules and then Codex: Green Marines for the modified Green Marines rules that constantly referenced the base codex. It's only recently that GW decided to release standalone codecies for Space Marines that happen to be painted Green, Silver, Red, or Black.
Then again, codecies also didn't cost $50 back then. It's disappointing that people that painted their Space Marines black will have to shell out $100 for two books in order to play their color variant.
Well, not originally. 2nd Edition had full codices for Ultramarines (which was the default SM codex), Space Wolves and Angels of Death (Blood and Dark). 3rd Edition went to Codex Space marines with thin, cheap mini-codices that added on the extra rules. Staple-bound, about 32 pages each. Barely any fluff, and mostly just the army lists. Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Assassins (thinner, but free in a WD!), Craftworld Eldar, Armageddon. There might be a couple of others, but I can't find them in my bookshelf, nor think of what they might be.
The first Chaos Space Marines book (well first book after they split up CSM and Daemons/Cults) was one as well. I have it here, cover has fallen off and its so thin in terms of actual content.
71201
Post by: JWhex
Azazelx wrote: Absolutionis wrote: unmercifulconker wrote:Individual books to cater to each chapters unique aspects? I love you GW.
Have to buy both to play that one chapter? I dislike you GW.
That's the way it originally was. You had to buy Codex: Space Marines for the base rules and then Codex: Green Marines for the modified Green Marines rules that constantly referenced the base codex. It's only recently that GW decided to release standalone codecies for Space Marines that happen to be painted Green, Silver, Red, or Black.
Then again, codecies also didn't cost $50 back then. It's disappointing that people that painted their Space Marines black will have to shell out $100 for two books in order to play their color variant.
Well, not originally. 2nd Edition had full codices for Ultramarines (which was the default SM codex), Space Wolves and Angels of Death (Blood and Dark). 3rd Edition went to Codex Space marines with thin, cheap mini-codices that added on the extra rules. Staple-bound, about 32 pages each. Barely any fluff, and mostly just the army lists. Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Assassins (thinner, but free in a WD!), Craftworld Eldar, Armageddon. There might be a couple of others, but I can't find them in my bookshelf, nor think of what they might be.
Add catachans.
Anyway, has anyone confirmed that the Eldar supplement has rules for units or fortifications or any rules besides special scenario rules? I remain skeptical that there are rules for characters or units in the supplement.
115
Post by: Azazelx
Yep and yep. I've got both of those. Somewhere. Damn, now it's going to piss me off till I find them!
57811
Post by: Jehan-reznor
Well if the Eldar codex and sublist codex sell well, i find this very plausible.
the more you know!
10953
Post by: JohnnyHell
Feth it, if it does pan out this way and is successful, and it means a Genestealer Cult sub-dex comes out at some point... TAKE MY MONEY!!!
49621
Post by: erewego86
These rumors seem completely unbelievable. It's enough that GW has accelerated it's release schedule to a book a month--I cannot believe they'd have the motivation to generate more rules content.
More to the point, they've not recently shown much initiative in creating rules content without models to go along with the rules. No models = No rules.
Finally, if this were the case, how could any of these sub-armies sustain their own book or list? Some chapters are distinct enough to support an entirely separate codex but these are the exceptions to the general rule that a specialized army like iyanden doesn't have enough to distinguish itself from every other eldar army. If you want to pay iyanden paint your army yellow and blue and maybe through in some more wraithguard. That's it. That's all that playing iyanden means and that distinction alone cannot justify a new army list.
Also the op misspelled iyanden. Not a huge thing but makes the post seem less credible.
402
Post by: Krinsath
 erewego86 wrote:
Finally, if this were the case, how could any of these sub-armies sustain their own book or list? Some chapters are distinct enough to support an entirely separate codex but these are the exceptions to the general rule that a specialized army like iyanden doesn't have enough to distinguish itself from every other eldar army. If you want to pay iyanden paint your army yellow and blue and maybe through in some more wraithguard. That's it. That's all that playing iyanden means and that distinction alone cannot justify a new army list.
Which could imply that they are indeed expanding that distinction bolded. However, on the whole I share your incredulity on the whole thing. If the Iyanden book comes out with an actual army list that is distinctive and has unique rules/options, that might support this rumor a bit more. I doubt that will come to pass, and it seems more like someone taking a course of action to a logical, if perhaps inaccurate, conclusion.
55041
Post by: The Shrike
If Faeit's timeline is to be believed and C:SM is in fact slated for an October release, then this has a good chance of being true and less of a chance of being testing.
IF you trust Reecius, which I do.
BUT, let's also just parse through this logically. Why would GW want to release a C:SM book that unites all their money-making marines into virtually one codex. One, you can't release enough new models to coincide with such a release. Two, it ruins the Imperium-Xenos-Imperium-Xenos rhythm in codex production that, more or less, has ruled the day for 25 years. This structure has kept their bread and butter (Marines) fresh. If you release a C:SM with 3-4 supplementary books, you've just competed with yourself for a finite amount of consumers' disposable income.
In closing, if they want to scale down Black Templars and only release ONE supplementary book (C:BT) with a unique model or two for them, that I would understand.
After all, unlike my Dark Angels, the Templars don't have anything special enough that a trait tree can't fix ;P
35006
Post by: Medium of Death
Are we taking this seriously considering the Iyanden book has been talked about as being a fluff book? No rules; just scenarios and paint schemes.
7075
Post by: chaos0xomega
The Shrike wrote:If Faeit's timeline is to be believed and C: SM is in fact slated for an October release, then this has a good chance of being true and less of a chance of being testing.
IF you trust Reecius, which I do.
BUT, let's also just parse through this logically. Why would GW want to release a C: SM book that unites all their money-making marines into virtually one codex. One, you can't release enough new models to coincide with such a release. Two, it ruins the Imperium-Xenos-Imperium-Xenos rhythm in codex production that, more or less, has ruled the day for 25 years. This structure has kept their bread and butter (Marines) fresh. If you release a C: SM with 3-4 supplementary books, you've just competed with yourself for a finite amount of consumers' disposable income.
In closing, if they want to scale down Black Templars and only release ONE supplementary book (C: BT) with a unique model or two for them, that I would understand.
After all, unlike my Dark Angels, the Templars don't have anything special enough that a trait tree can't fix ;P
I don't know if you noticed, but Imperium-Xenos-Imperium has been dead for a while. The next 40k codex to release is? Eldar. The previous 40k codex to release is? Tau. Prior to that I'm a bit fuzzy, but I think the order was Chaos Marines, Chaos Daemons, Dark Angels, yes?
 Medium of Death wrote:Are we taking this seriously considering the Iyanden book has been talked about as being a fluff book? No rules; just scenarios and paint schemes.
Trust me, I and others have tried making this point, nobody is paying attention and are only believing what they want to believe/hear. Then when the Iyanden supplement turns out to NOT be a mini-codex they are going to get all upset and scream that GW lied to them and ripped them off and blah blah blah.
65903
Post by: King Pyrrhus
I'm fairly sure the leaked pictures of the White Dwarf mention at least some rules in the Iyanden book.
49456
Post by: pizzaguardian
King Pyrrhus wrote:I'm fairly sure the leaked pictures of the White Dwarf mention at least some rules in the Iyanden book.
I think that was in the pproduct description of the supplement.
Edit: But those rules probably stuff like the dogfight rules from dots.
463
Post by: CaptKaruthors
I'll take this with a massive load a salt...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm curious that we are getting alleged SM rumors instead of APOC rumors. July is the apparent release of APOC...yet no mention of it. :shrug:
58613
Post by: -Shrike-
*Dies from salt intoxication*
1) You could fix the chapters stuff with a traits system, as Hastings rumoured.
2) I thought the Iyanden supplement only contained scenarios and Warlord traits.
3) Why did they not do mini-codices (or traits) for Chaos Legions? Even just a generic Legions book would have sold better than Iyanden or Black Templars (for example), IMHO.
59176
Post by: Mathieu Raymond
At this point, who knows?
It might pave the way to those legion books. There would be just as much possible fluff expansion for Space Marine Legions as for a Craftworld, after all, if they really made the effort.
67781
Post by: BryllCream
Medium of Death wrote:Are we taking this seriously considering the Iyanden book has been talked about as being a fluff book? No rules; just scenarios and paint schemes.
The fact that the release explicitly states "new rules" hasn't put off the community from complaining about lack of rules.
123
Post by: Alpharius
Who is this "Community" that you speak of in such glowing terms?
61775
Post by: ClassicCarraway
While I'm skeptical of the rumor list in the OP, I do feel that its not a stretch to think GW will do the whole sub-dex thing for their number one selling army. Depending on the army being focused on (Imperial Fists and their successor chapters), I'd buy it.
Alot of people are complaining about it, but think about what the sub-dexes could bring to the hobby. More specific army books means more varied armies playing, instead of just generic marines painted yellow, or generic eldar painted red. Its far preferable than the old "Special Character unlock" bit that is kind of dull. It also allows GW the easy opportunity to go back and revisit some of the older 6th armies and maybe right some of the wrongs.
39502
Post by: Slayer le boucher
Waiting to see what actualy the Yianden supplement book looks like and if there is truely rules in it.
If it is some kind of Chapter Approved and really gives rules for alternat lists, then i do hope they do a Chaos Legions one.
If not, then they can go to hell with it* in deep german accent*
59176
Post by: Mathieu Raymond
It worked well enough for FFG to release Deathwatch supplements focusing on only a few SM Chapters at a time. Yes, I played. Definitely not my cup of tea.
59491
Post by: d3m01iti0n
The Shrike wrote:
After all, unlike my Dark Angels, the Templars don't have anything special enough that a trait tree can't fix ;P
"Your" Dark Angels werent all that special before their update. Same for Blood Angels. In fact, before their updates they were so un-special they both hung out under the SM tab with BT on the GW site. Thats why armies get new books and models. Yknow, in case you forgot how the hobby works.
71201
Post by: JWhex
 BryllCream wrote: Medium of Death wrote:Are we taking this seriously considering the Iyanden book has been talked about as being a fluff book? No rules; just scenarios and paint schemes.
The fact that the release explicitly states "new rules" hasn't put off the community from complaining about lack of rules.
"new rules" could mean a lot of things, purchasable terrain, special scenarios, new characters, new units etc.
Being skeptical that some of the above possibilities may or may not be present is not complaining, its just being reasonable. The fact that GW has been synchronizing new unit rules with models in recent months makes it reasonable to doubt that new unit rules will be released with the supplement.
Mostly people want new unit rules and dont give two craps about special scenario rules, especially in a 50 dollar book.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
 d3m01iti0n wrote:"Your" Dark Angels werent all that special before their update. Same for Blood Angels. In fact, before their updates they were so un-special they both hung out under the SM tab with BT on the GW site. Thats why armies get new books and models. Yknow, in case you forgot how the hobby works.
People seem to forget that the DA's and BA's are ostensibly Codex Chapters whereas the BTs are not. I don't know why people think the BT's should only get some special rules whilst at the same time think that DA's and BA's need entire Codices to document the simply unending list (/sarcasm) of differences they share to regular Codex Chapters.
I mean, in a perfect world all Marine Chapters outside of the truly divergent ones (Wolves and a few others) would just be special rules, a few units, and some special characters, but we won't get that, so we get full books.
If GW did what FW did with the Horus Heresy book - Core List, and then a sub-section containing specific rules for Legions, unique units to that Legion, and Special Characters - then Marines would be perfected.
63092
Post by: MarsNZ
More Chapters (with USRs, naturally) and yet no Legion additions. Colour me unsurprised.
51769
Post by: Snrub
 H.B.M.C. wrote:If GW did what FW did with the Horus Heresy book - Core List, and then a sub-section containing specific rules for Legions, unique units to that Legion, and Special Characters - then Marines would be perfected.
This, so much this.
59176
Post by: Mathieu Raymond
H.B.M.C. wrote: d3m01iti0n wrote:"Your" Dark Angels werent all that special before their update. Same for Blood Angels. In fact, before their updates they were so un-special they both hung out under the SM tab with BT on the GW site. Thats why armies get new books and models. Yknow, in case you forgot how the hobby works.
People seem to forget that the DA's and BA's are ostensibly Codex Chapters whereas the BTs are not. I don't know why people think the BT's should only get some special rules whilst at the same time think that DA's and BA's need entire Codices to document the simply unending list (/sarcasm) of differences they share to regular Codex Chapters.
I mean, in a perfect world all Marine Chapters outside of the truly divergent ones (Wolves and a few others) would just be special rules, a few units, and some special characters, but we won't get that, so we get full books.
Anyway, with the huge yawn (to me) that was the Dark Angels codex, I wouldn't have minded, actually. It's not a bad book, per se, but the "so much flavour your mouth explodes" feeling I thought these would warrant wasn't there. To omo imasu.
299
Post by: Kilkrazy
It is about time for an updated SM codex. Hopefully it will confirm the real height of SMs.
56122
Post by: Perfect Organism
I'd find these a lot more credible if they predicted codex supplements before we knew about the Iyanden book.
18698
Post by: kronk
Neronoxx wrote:Agreed. This one sounds false, especially as he believes the new eldar supplement is required to play iyanden (which is incorrect.)
Isn't the Iyanden supplement iPad only?
Would these be iPad only? If so, I guess I'm SOL. 
8221
Post by: Zathras
unmercifulconker wrote:It would just be stupid to make these digitally exclusive, do we all have to buy Ipads and bring them to every match?
Hey, GW thinks if you're able to pay their prices, then having an IPad should be no problem.....I wonder how much Apple has invested in GW? Or vice versa for that matter.
59176
Post by: Mathieu Raymond
 kronk wrote:Neronoxx wrote:Agreed. This one sounds false, especially as he believes the new eldar supplement is required to play iyanden (which is incorrect.)
Isn't the Iyanden supplement iPad only?
Would these be iPad only? If so, I guess I'm SOL.
Nope the supplement is not a digital only release, and not a splash release. There might not be enough originally à la Death from the Skies, but they'll keep printing it.
15115
Post by: Brother SRM
 Kilkrazy wrote:It is about time for an updated SM codex. Hopefully it will confirm the real height of SMs.
It's one of those things that doesn't really matter honestly. They're as big as they need to be for the story being told.
64133
Post by: Ralis
I agree, Its very unlikely that they would start doing Mini-dex for space marines, when Dark Angels already got a full codex of their own.
Not that I'm complaining as a DA player...
18698
Post by: kronk
Mathieu Raymond wrote: kronk wrote:Neronoxx wrote:Agreed. This one sounds false, especially as he believes the new eldar supplement is required to play iyanden (which is incorrect.)
Isn't the Iyanden supplement iPad only?
Would these be iPad only? If so, I guess I'm SOL.
Nope the supplement is not a digital only release, and not a splash release. There might not be enough originally à la Death from the Skies, but they'll keep printing it.
K. I'm not seeing it on the GW website, though. Will it be on there later or something? I'm confused.
14863
Post by: MasterSlowPoke
kronk wrote:
K. I'm not seeing it on the GW website, though. Will it be on there later or something? I'm confused.
It's coming out mid month. They'll probably open up preorders after the Eldar release.
20774
Post by: pretre
2 weeks for the Iyanden book.
18698
Post by: kronk
I see. Thanks!
/Crisis!
5269
Post by: lord_blackfang
H.B.M.C. wrote:
People seem to forget that the DA's and BA's are ostensibly Codex Chapters whereas the BTs are not. I don't know why people think the BT's should only get some special rules whilst at the same time think that DA's and BA's need entire Codices to document the simply unending list (/sarcasm) of differences they share to regular Codex Chapters.
While I despise all SM sub-faction books, I think that First Founding should have preferential treatment over some random chapter.
I mean, in a perfect world all Marine Chapters outside of the truly divergent ones (Wolves and a few others) would just be special rules, a few units, and some special characters, but we won't get that, so we get full books.
If GW did what FW did with the Horus Heresy book - Core List, and then a sub-section containing specific rules for Legions, unique units to that Legion, and Special Characters - then Marines would be perfected.
Would be nice. Or traits. Dunno why everyone hated traits.
60281
Post by: FarseerAndyMan
Traits were a cool idea, they just got abused.
Players would take the "No Drop Pod" hinderance because the Drop Pod wasnt available to anyone outside of ForgeWorld.
I hope they bring them back in some form..I would like tobe able to customize my boys without haveing to default to a specialist codex..
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
kronk wrote:K. I'm not seeing it on the GW website, though. Will it be on there later or something? I'm confused.
Seems like printing it in fat bold letters at the start of the first post in the Eldar news&rumour thread is not enough
60501
Post by: stargasm
I like the idea so long as the supplements are a fraction of the main codex price. Does anyone know how much the Yanden supplement is?
62229
Post by: Minx
 stargasm wrote:I like the idea so long as the supplements are a fraction of the main codex price. Does anyone know how much the Yanden supplement is?
Last i heard, the fraction equals one.
18698
Post by: kronk
 Kroothawk wrote: kronk wrote:K. I'm not seeing it on the GW website, though. Will it be on there later or something? I'm confused.
Seems like printing it in fat bold letters at the start of the first post in the Eldar news&rumour thread is not enough
I don't read anything that isn't at least 18 point font in Times New Roman. 
2776
Post by: Reecius
http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2013/05/28/rumors-space-marines-genestealer-cults-and-forge-world-oh-my/
The plot thickens, yo!
Salt all up in ya face, kid!
Weeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!
But seriously, more rumors and wild speculation in the above article for the so inclined.
60281
Post by: FarseerAndyMan
Well,
Since Dreamforge has relased the Crusader, GW had better step up their game for the Imperial AND Space Marine players.
I wonder if we will see a different kit for IG and Space Marines?
56122
Post by: Perfect Organism
Reecius wrote:http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2013/05/28/rumors-space-marines-genestealer-cults-and-forge-world-oh-my/
What I was told more specifically was that the IP for Genestealer Cults may not actually belong to GW, and that a company patented the idea/IP/models/something like that in the 90′s thinking that GW would buy the rights to the idea. GW did not and as such the idea has sat untouched since then.
As I was told, this patent expires next year….coincidentally right about the time GW plans to release Tyranids! So, GW’s plan as it was related to me, is to try to acquire the IP once the patent is up, or to release Genestealer Cult units under another name.
I think we can safely say that this person has absolutely no idea what they are talking about.
60720
Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
The rumour about a patent is clearly not right (not least as you can't patent this sort of stuff (in the UK anyway)
however it is not impossible that GW did not own the design rights on the genestealer cults ( http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/protect/p15_design_rights)
GW had a bad habit of using contract staff rather than permanent employees, without giving them clear contacts about who owned what which has lead to them scrambling to get some of them to give up artistic rights which would normally have passed GW (see the chaperhouse case thread)
These design rights usually expire 10 (15 max) years after their first introduction (which could be 1989 or 92), however new genestealer cult stuff was put out in 2004 which would fit a 2014 date.
I don't really belive this rumour, but it's not as implausible as it first seems
31784
Post by: Flood
Yeah that sounds kinda off, what with GW having released genestealer cultist models and rules previously, not to mention their Space Hulk ownership. The rest of that post, although a lovely set of ideas, sounds like personal theory constructed from popular discussions on mini-dexes, legions, cults and Forgeworld, reinforced by the new Iyanden book and recent rumours of the large SM-thingy.
While most of it is perfectly believable and may well happen, anyone reading the forums over the last year or so has probably speculated something similar.
25208
Post by: AlmightyWalrus
 lord_blackfang wrote: H.B.M.C. wrote:
People seem to forget that the DA's and BA's are ostensibly Codex Chapters whereas the BTs are not. I don't know why people think the BT's should only get some special rules whilst at the same time think that DA's and BA's need entire Codices to document the simply unending list (/sarcasm) of differences they share to regular Codex Chapters.
While I despise all SM sub-faction books, I think that First Founding should have preferential treatment over some random chapter.
I mean, in a perfect world all Marine Chapters outside of the truly divergent ones (Wolves and a few others) would just be special rules, a few units, and some special characters, but we won't get that, so we get full books.
If GW did what FW did with the Horus Heresy book - Core List, and then a sub-section containing specific rules for Legions, unique units to that Legion, and Special Characters - then Marines would be perfected.
Would be nice. Or traits. Dunno why everyone hated traits.
I'll start off with the traits: they were bad because people could take lots of goodies and pay for it with non-consequential flaws. If you're not including a Land Raider in the first place, being unable to include a Land Raider isn't a flaw or drawback at all.
On to the nonsense about first founding, and this is probably the fifth or sixth time I've said this: there are no "first founding Chapters". Chapters didn't exist until the second founding. The Black Templars, Crimson Fists and every other second founding Chapter (which includes the Ultramarines, Imperial Fists and the Salamanders) were all part of the Legiones Astartes; attributing the deeds of, for example, the Imperial Fists Legion to the Imperial Fists Chapter alone is incorrect, as the Crimson Fists, Black Templars and Soul Drinkers were all part of the Legion. It's not until the third founding that Chapters that took no part in the Heresy are created. Thus, Codex: Black Templars is, for the purpouses of this argument, just as justified as Codex: Blood Angels or Codex: Space Wolves.
56307
Post by: unmercifulconker
Oh gosh darn it, now I am on the verge of ordering a wraith knight but I forgot about this rumoured SM biggy, guess I will have to wait a bit.
24567
Post by: Kroothawk
kronk wrote:I don't read anything that isn't at least 18 point font in Times New Roman.
Next time I add cowbells
4875
Post by: His Master's Voice
 AlmightyWalrus wrote:Thus, Codex: Black Templars is, for the purpouses of this argument, just as justified as Codex: Blood Angels or Codex: Space Wolves.
Except Space Wolves had no official successor chapters IIRC. The legion became the chapter.
Other than that, the lore always made it clear that the mantle of each legion is carried by it's direct successor chapter. So while BTs are theoretically on the same genealogy branch as the Imperial Fist, IFs get the nod in terms of seniority.
25543
Post by: TyraelVladinhurst
 His Master's Voice wrote: AlmightyWalrus wrote:Thus, Codex: Black Templars is, for the purpouses of this argument, just as justified as Codex: Blood Angels or Codex: Space Wolves.
Except Space Wolves had no official successor chapters IIRC. The legion became the chapter.
Other than that, the lore always made it clear that the mantle of each legion is carried by it's direct successor chapter. So while BTs are theoretically on the same genealogy branch as the Imperial Fist, IFs get the nod in terms of seniority.
space wolves sub chapter WAS the wolf brothers but they were A.) wiped out or B.) went wulfen completely and went after their primarch
10093
Post by: Sidstyler
MY EYES! WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS?!
So at any rate, FW and GW are not overlapping models any more as they end of competing with themselves and cannibalizing sales from one another. As such, plans for a plastic Thunderbolt that were in the works were scrapped.
Yeah, that's what I thought. Complete bs in my opinion, they seem to think that everyone who bought a plastic model would have bought a resin one, and that holds about as much truth as the idea that everyone who buys from an independent store or an online retailer would buy directly from GW if they had no other option.
I think something's off, personally. There's no way they made enough money off the FW baneblade that moving it to plastic hurt their sales that much. Some suit probably got upset when they saw how successful that kit and the valkyrie were (possibly the Tau piranha?) and said "feth, we could have made SO MUCH MORE MONEY if all those people paid 3x as much for FW models! End this at once!"
20774
Post by: pretre
Rumors for you, rumors for me!
So, some more rumors for us to pontificate upon. Perhaps even ruminate over! Other big words about thinking, yes!
So anyway, here’s the scoop. Our source hit me up this morning to let me know some more goodies he or she had been told from their source who works for a certain large miniatures manufacturer in some capacity (sorry to be so vague, just don’t want to lose the lead on good info). This source has proven to be very reliable in the past, telling us about Adeptus Mechanicus at FW before it hit, among others, most of which have turned out to be accurate. Some of what this individual has told us has also turned out to not be accurate, but with rumors it is hard to judge. They could be accurate at one point in time and then plans change, or they could be a version of the truth, etc. All I can say is that I trust this source as it is a person I go way, way back with. That said, these are just rumors after all folks, so salt and all that.
During the course of our conversation, we covered a number of topics, and this is a bit of a summation. For one, I was told that my guesses about possible “mini-dexes” for the Chaos Space Marines to further explore the Legions may in fact be true. What that means I can only speculate on as my source didn’t know anything else. Rules? Fluff? Art? All of the above? None of the above? I can’t say at this point in time, although I fervently hope it means legion specific rules. I think we will learn a lot from the Iyanden Eldar supplement that is coming out in mere days. What I have heard about that book so far is that it is both physical and digital, and that is has rules and fluff specific to Iyanden, which makes sense as GW just invested so much money into producing the Wraithknight, Wraithguard/Blades, Spirit Seer, etc. and woudl want to maximize profit for that release. I think that this book will be a good indication as to the future direction of these “mini-dexes” we’ve been hearing about since before 6th ed hit. We’ve had steady rumors on this topic now for over a year.
Which is a nice segue into our next topic! I was told that Genestealer Cults are indeed in the works. This is a rumor that has been corroborated by another source we have that is also a very trustworthy point of information and as such I am thinking these rumors are looking highly plausible. What I was told more specifically was that the IP for Genestealer Cults may not actually belong to GW, and that a company patented the idea/IP/models/something like that in the 90′s thinking that GW would buy the rights to the idea. GW did not and as such the idea has sat untouched since then.
As I was told, this patent expires next year….coincidentally right about the time GW plans to release Tyranids! So, GW’s plan as it was related to me, is to try to acquire the IP once the patent is up, or to release Genestealer Cult units under another name. That would be pretty cool and an Iyanden like supplement for them would be pretty awesome, IMO. Plus that means the bugs would have access to an entirely new type of build with, if it happens and turns out to be anything like the Genestealer Cults of days past, vehicles and…a mother f#$%(@n Limousine! Yeah buddy, the Magus rolled in style, son! I’f put a gold grille and spinners on mine, of course.
This lead into a talk about the Space Marine giant robot that has been rumored to be on the way. This has been repeated many times now by multiple sources, and seeing as how every army has been getting a giant dude/monster/robot on an oval base, I don’t think this is going to surprise anyone. As Space Marines are far and away the best selling army in any of GW’s game systems, making one of these would be like printing money. As to what it is, what I keep hearing is a “giant Contemptor Dreadnought.”
I asked if he thought GW would port over more FW units directly into the dex like we saw with IG, and he said he thought no. The reason stated is that he was told FW took a major hit on the Baneblade. Apparently it was one of the best, if not the best, selling kits Forgeworld had prior to the superior and cheaper GW plastic kit. The thought process was to introduce FW type kits to GW retail outlets and FLGS’ at a more affordable price point to increase awareness of FW style products. Apparently the idea backfired as it killed sales on the Baneblade. The end result was a major loss for FW’s bottom line with a relatively minor increase to GW’s. I was told as a result of this the acting CEO of FW at the time resigned/was asked to resign. I tried to verify this on Google, but couldn’t find who the acting CEO of FW was when the Baneblade was released. If anyone knows and could verify this, that would be great.
So at any rate, FW and GW are not overlapping models any more as they end of competing with themselves and cannibalizing sales from one another. As such, plans for a plastic Thunderbolt that were in the works were scrapped.
Speculation: if the above is true, that would explain why we have not, and likely will not see plastic T-Hawks, Warhounds, etc. What we are getting are these new, unique models such as the Wraithknight (anyone remember the frequent rumors of a plastic Revenant Titan that were floating around for years?). Could the Storm Raven be what became of the rumored plastic T-Hawk? It does look like a squished T-Hawk and with 3D sculpting on computers these days, I imagine it would be fairly easy to do for one with the appropriate skill-set.
I am of course just guessing here, but it seems very plausible to me that in an effort to not cannibalize their own sales–which makes sense–GW is instead using their ever improving plastic manufacturing capabilities, and predilection for retconning the fluff as needed to introduce new models, to get the best of both worlds. Big, new, relatively affordable plastic kits (compared to FW) that have proven to be popular in both 40K and Fantasy seems like an intelligent compromise. This leaves FW to do their thing, acting as the “Infiniti” to GW’s Nissan in the greater corporate brand. With the new version of Apocalypse rumored on the horizon, and it’s huge popularity upon release, it makes sense to me to make these big kits more accessible to GW’s larger consumer base.
What say you all?
Paste to make it easier. Will also update the first post.
Geeze, Reecius... Wall of text much?
30265
Post by: SoloFalcon1138
Sooooo... Is this News & Rumors? Because I see a whole lot of wishlisting and guesses.
56307
Post by: unmercifulconker
I just wanna know whats next, either get a wraith knight and some other eldar for an ally force or just wait till SM to get their big beasty.
59176
Post by: Mathieu Raymond
Someone else also mentionned Dreamforge earlier, and I think if GW has any idea of what is happening in the real world (or even our community), they'd have to have big swinging brass balls to introduce a 140$ (CAD) kit that is in no way as well engineered or poseable as the Leviathan Crusader or the Mortis. Which also happens to be 125$ (CAD) if you are foolish enough to pay MSRP on it.
Or is it me being stubborn and refusing to see GW for what it is?
50140
Post by: Sir Samuel Buca
Once again, this sounds like a wishlist and hearsay from people saying what they think would be cool on the forums. An example being the giant Contemptor, I've heard this mentioned twice before, prefixed with "Know what I think would be cool/ what I want?"
59176
Post by: Mathieu Raymond
True.
Note that we might have a better chance at guessing new releases by looking for the holes in the noise. No one ever wished for a flying guppy, Dino bots or Gundams.
56307
Post by: unmercifulconker
I want, no, I NEED a 'big contemptor' for my black templars with sword and gun as options, it will make the crusading all the easier.
42470
Post by: SickSix
I am in full agreement with Sidstyler on the FW baneblade thing. There is no way FW was selling that many resin baneblades.
4875
Post by: His Master's Voice
SickSix wrote:There is no way FW was selling that many resin baneblades.
It's not how many of those they sold. It's that before plastic BBs, they sold all BBs out there. After the plastic kit showed up, they most likely didn't sell any. And remember, that was the time when FW was all about tanks. Mass infantry and non vehicle kits were not there yet en masse and BB variants were a large portion of the catalogue.
59176
Post by: Mathieu Raymond
His Master's Voice wrote: SickSix wrote:There is no way FW was selling that many resin baneblades.
It's not how many of those they sold. It's that before plastic BBs, they sold all BBs out there. After the plastic kit showed up, they most likely didn't sell any. And remember, that was the time when FW was all about tanks. Mass infantry and non vehicle kits were not there yet en masse and BB variants were a large portion of the catalogue.
Most likely true, but look how well it turned out for them in the long run. I rather enjoy the variety we have now.
4875
Post by: His Master's Voice
Mathieu Raymond wrote:Most likely true, but look how well it turned out for them in the long run. I rather enjoy the variety we have now.
Don't get me wrong, I think shifting certain kits over from FW should be the way to go. There's only so many people that will buy resin enthusiast kits and lots more that will spend money on plastic crack. Certain older models like T-Hawk are ripe for this kind of treatment and as you said, FW is fully capable of branching out enough to cover the losses.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
I realise I'm a little late to the party on this reply, but I've explained this before to some people so I'll explain it again: That’s easy: Traits are inherently unbalanced. The problem with Traits (and this applied to the Guard Doctrine system from 3rd Ed as well) is that it allowed you to gain benefits for free with no real downsides. Guard Doctrines took away your ability to take Priests, Sanctioned Psykers, Enginseers, Ratlings, Ogryn and Rough Riders. Other than Rough Riders, no one used these units, so you weren’t really losing anything. All my Infantry can get +1 Initiative for free just by standing in formation, and to get that all I need to do is not take any of the units I wasn’t going to take in the first place? Sign me up!!! The same applied to Traits. You had to balance up-side traits with down-side traits, so you just took the “No Allies” down-side – and if you weren’t planning on taking allies then this isn’t a down-side. Or the one that limits FA... not a big deal if you weren’t going to take any. It even applied to Night Lords/Iron Warriors in the 3.5 Chaos ‘Dex – I wasn’t planning on taking an FA choices, so I’ll gladly give them up to get an extra HS slot... except I’m not really giving anything up, am I? I get what they were trying to do with Traits and Doctrines, but they didn’t work because the things you gave up weren’t actual sacrifices. There was no balance. You often got a bonus and suffered no consequences at all. Automatically Appended Next Post: Reecius wrote:http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2013/05/28/rumors-space-marines-genestealer-cults-and-forge-world-oh-my/
FW has a "CEO"? 
4727
Post by: Makaleth
H.B.M.C. wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
Reecius wrote:http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2013/05/28/rumors-space-marines-genestealer-cults-and-forge-world-oh-my/
FW has a "CEO"?
Of course they have a CEO, they are a company. 
Agreed, the downsides need to exist if balance is going to exist. That's REALLY hard to do properly (as you have noted, people just build lists that mean the downside is not a real one).
Ironically, one thing where they have put in a downside that exists like these doctrines are linking HQ choices to specific force orgs. Interesting thing is that you don't like these (for a totally different and I feel justifiable reason) but it is actually an example where the downside is a real downside for a specific upside.
50012
Post by: Crimson
There needs not to be downsides for traits besides there being limited number of traits you can have. Have a list of traits. You can choose, say, two for your Chapter. Done.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
At what cost though?
123
Post by: Alpharius
At 'some cost' - maybe more points for the extra whatevers.
Some level of customization can certainly be 'figured out', right?
16233
Post by: deleted20250424
The Traits shouldn't be pick the upside and the downside allowing for people to pick stuff that won't affect them.
Each bonus should come automatically with a negative and not let the players pick it.
Just tossing stuff out here..... something like, you want Counter Attack on Troop Choices so you lose FnP Army wide.
It shouldn't be Pick from column A for gain and pick from column B for loss of something you would never use anyway.
It should be Pick A, automatically lose B. Make your choice on if it's worth it to you or not.
50012
Post by: Crimson
You don't need to lose anything. This is not how this game usually works. You choose stuff, and it is limited by points and/or how many you can get.
4884
Post by: Therion
 Crimson wrote:You don't need to lose anything. This is not how this game usually works. You choose stuff, and it is limited by points and/or how many you can get.
I agree. I've no idea why the 'there needs to be a downside' argument is still so prevalent. It's an army book and it can be balanced around the fact that each army chosen from it gets to choose its army wide perks from a list. I think the 'free stuff for nothing' problem HBMC is talking about belongs to previous editions where all Space Marine chapters were essentially identical aside the fact that they had one or two differing special rules (one's stubborn, one's got counter attack, one's got furious charge) etc. Back then the most exciting thing about a Marine codex was if Assault Cannons were 3 shots or 4 shots, when today every book gets a bunch of new and unique units.
59176
Post by: Mathieu Raymond
A simple example regarding this is like Codex: CSM allowing certains squads to be Veterans of the Long War. A boost, yes, but you field fewer marines if you do. It's not "lose a troops choice"... but it might end up being that if you spend over 100 pts on VotLW.
|
|
