Just had a random thought cross my mind but do you guys think that we'll get super heavies soon in regular games of 40k?

Given the sheer size of the wraithlord, it might as well be an APOC game. I want to throw baneblades at the thing so much lol. Maybe 7th edition or maybe just the next IG codex? (Baneblades are one of the few Apoc only units sold on GW web page and I've always wondered why it's only ever in APOC)

I hope so.

I like the Riptide and the Wraithknight,but I do not envisage the IG getting a super heavy ( or SM getting a large base model either )..

just because Tau and Eldar got some big beasties doesn't mean every single codex from now on will.

You dont think that SM will get a Dreadknight variant?? I think you may be right, mostly because DA didnt get one lol

:: gasps at the thought :: I hope so! : D

Because then I could maybe use my Baneblade that I primed but never painted! : D

I wouldn't mind too much, but I wouldn't want them to be must-haves. Big models could be challenging to transport.

I could easily see the IG getting new tanks, quite likely ones that are larger than the current stock... BUT I don't see them being super-heavies. They'd be stepping on Forgeworld's toes, and it would also mean either introducing Structure Points out of Apocalypse or coming up with some other way to make them more resilient.

...after all, we can't have the new shiny being put out of commission by one lucky lascannon shot... can we Riptide/Wraithknight?

I'd have no issue with it. An actual over-sized vehicle would be a nice change from the monstrous creatures we've been getting. But then we get into the whole "vehicles can die from one hit" issue... so we'd have to get into structure points type thing and it would be superheavy vehicles on the table in 40k.

Hell no for baneblade.

I would tolerate a Macharius or Malcador, or maybe even a knight titan (if only so I can use dreamforge's amazing titan models) They still feel too large for regular 40k to me though.

Baneblade is just way too big for a normal game. If you're playing with the proper amount of terrain, it won't be able to move much since it's so big. Also, it's stat's would be extremely wonky. It would have the equivalent to like 9 HP or something right? And unless you made it's main cannon just a really souped up demolisher shell, or went with the Deathstrike method of a variable template, you would have to bust out apocalypse pie plates as well.

 Super Ready wrote:

...after all, we can't have the new shiny being put out of commission by one lucky lascannon shot... can we Riptide/Wraithknight?

I suppose they could always give the tanks wounds and toughness instead of an armor value. The difference between vehicles and creatures seems to be blurred these days.

Not exactly serious about this for the guard, but possibly the space marines. Dreadnoughts should be something to fear, not fragile 'light vehicle', and giving it wounds and toughness could fix that.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Hell no for baneblade.

I would tolerate a Macharius or Malcador, or maybe even a knight titan (if only so I can use dreamforge's amazing titan models) They still feel too large for regular 40k to me though.

Baneblade is just way too big for a normal game. If you're playing with the proper amount of terrain, it won't be able to move much since it's so big. Also, it's stat's would be extremely wonky. It would have the equivalent to like 9 HP or something right? And unless you made it's main cannon just a really souped up demolisher shell, or went with the Deathstrike method of a variable template, you would have to bust out apocalypse pie plates as well.

Hmph. You make a lot of sense.

But I demand that the bigger-than-a-Leman-Russ tank have twin battle cannons on its turret.

Why? Because I like things that have two things instead of one thing.

 Pouncey wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Hell no for baneblade.

I would tolerate a Macharius or Malcador, or maybe even a knight titan (if only so I can use dreamforge's amazing titan models) They still feel too large for regular 40k to me though.

Baneblade is just way too big for a normal game. If you're playing with the proper amount of terrain, it won't be able to move much since it's so big. Also, it's stat's would be extremely wonky. It would have the equivalent to like 9 HP or something right? And unless you made it's main cannon just a really souped up demolisher shell, or went with the Deathstrike method of a variable template, you would have to bust out apocalypse pie plates as well.

Hmph. You make a lot of sense.

But I demand that the bigger-than-a-Leman-Russ tank have twin battle cannons on its turret.

Why? Because I like things that have two things instead of one thing.

So you want a Macharius?

 VikingScott wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Hell no for baneblade.

I would tolerate a Macharius or Malcador, or maybe even a knight titan (if only so I can use dreamforge's amazing titan models) They still feel too large for regular 40k to me though.

Baneblade is just way too big for a normal game. If you're playing with the proper amount of terrain, it won't be able to move much since it's so big. Also, it's stat's would be extremely wonky. It would have the equivalent to like 9 HP or something right? And unless you made it's main cannon just a really souped up demolisher shell, or went with the Deathstrike method of a variable template, you would have to bust out apocalypse pie plates as well.

Hmph. You make a lot of sense.

But I demand that the bigger-than-a-Leman-Russ tank have twin battle cannons on its turret.

Why? Because I like things that have two things instead of one thing.

So you want a Macharius?

. . . Maaaaaaaybe. o///o

I'm fine with all these other armies getting big models, as long as tyranids get the largest scariest MC in the end. Baneblade would indeed have 9 HP, and couldn't be sploded until the final one went away (ref. http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/News/Downloads.html , Apocalypse update) .

As long as TMC are brought to scale in terms of points and scariness I'm totally cool with the 2+/5++ MC toting a s6ap4 heavy 12 rending cannon,with skyfire/intercepter. Totally cool.
Yup. No issues there. Definitely not mad this thing costs less than a decently kitted dakkafex. Not mad at all.

I'm all for super heavies and hope the Bane blade and maybe a variant or two end up in the next Guard Dex.

That said, the Macharius is my favorite tank model of all time. Ever. In the world. But I don't see the dexing it before the 'blade when they have it in plastic.

Bigger is better I always say.

 StarHunter25 wrote:
I'm fine with all these other armies getting big models, as long as tyranids get the largest scariest MC in the end. Baneblade would indeed have 9 HP, and couldn't be sploded until the final one went away (ref. http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/News/Downloads.html , Apocalypse update) .

As long as TMC are brought to scale in terms of points and scariness I'm totally cool with the 2+/5++ MC toting a s6ap4 heavy 12 rending cannon,with skyfire/intercepter. Totally cool.
Yup. No issues there. Definitely not mad this thing costs less than a decently kitted dakkafex. Not mad at all.

I think that's an issue with the Tyranid codex. Don't worry man, you'll have your day when the new codex comes out and all your new toys arrive. Just think of the 5 years the current owners of that MC had to wait around shivering in anticipation while hugging their hopelessly outdated codex that still mentioned target priority tests...

I wonder what if any thing the sm codex might get

A DreadKnight for the DreadKnight, so you have a walking robo-tank that baby-carries your walking robo-tank while the pilot is baby-carried by the walking robo-tank.

I hope not.

Since 'Nids have been brought up, I want to share my insight into the possibilities. Tyranids have a well rounded codex, and very few things do not have an official model, so it is unlikely that we will receive a completely new unit, more likely a revamp of one unit we already possess. The facts are as following; 'Nids are missing the following models.

Parasite of Mortrex
The Doom of Malan'Tai
Mycetic Spore
Tyranid Shrike
Sky-Slasher Swarm
Harpy

Now here is where things get easy. GW is a business, and they need something that can be sold repeatedly, and show up multiple times per army. So, that instantly removes the Parasite of Mortrex and the Doom of Malan'Tai. The Mycetic Spore pod is a transport, and not essential, so that can also be removed. Now, looking back at the previous two releases, we have seen two fairly large models. Tyranid Shrikes and Sky Slasher Swarms get knocked off the list at that point, due to the fact that they are Tyranid Warriors and Ripper Swarms with wings, and quite small. Now, what does that leave us with? The Harpy. The Harpy will most likely wind up being the size of an aircraft along with a total revamp on points price and efficiency, probably boosting its price to at least 200pts with some better weaponry. Now, baring the fact that it is an aerial unit, there is 1 last remaining option for what a new Tyranid model would be, if we solely focused on ground units. Old One Eye. Why? Because he is 260pts, and looks like this.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1460217a&_requestid=2516700

When he should look like this, and is this big.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/6/67/Oldoneeye.jpg

 Psienesis wrote:
A DreadKnight for the DreadKnight, so you have a walking robo-tank that baby-carries your walking robo-tank while the pilot is baby-carried by the walking robo-tank.

Obviously they need it to take on . . . Okay, seriously, the hell? I KNOW that Forge World used to sell a giant demon primarch or something.

Mighta been this guy:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer/Warhammer_Monsters/BLOODTHIRSTER-GREATER-DAEMON-OF-KHORNE.html

But I'm pretty sure the one I'm thinking of was named Angron or something like that.

Also, my friend says, "Some armor for your armor."

All I'll say is that if we end up getting Baneblades in normal games, I will probably stop playing, at least for a while.

That's just way too ridiculous for a normal game. I can barely tolerate the riptide because I can kill it with lasguns, and have intentionally avoided looking at the Eldar Zord wannabe so I don't get frustrated.

We have apocalypse for a reason guys.

Well I was actually talking to the owner of my FLGS about all the new giant units and I was wondering why they were doing it. He seems to think that it is because there are trying to make these types of models more accessible for people than the forge world models. I personally just think it is a way for GW to build big giant models and people say "DUDE that's huge I NEED that!" That's just a way for them to make more money because 100 bucks for a single unit seems outrageous imho.

I'd not be shocked to see the Stompa making it into the new Ork codex, whenever that happens. Some variant of it anyway.

They aren't much bigger than the Wraithknight, and are on the lower end of the power-scale for apoc.

with a price increase of course :(

chiefbigredman wrote:
Well I was actually talking to the owner of my FLGS about all the new giant units and I was wondering why they were doing it. He seems to think that it is because there are trying to make these types of models more accessible for people than the forge world models. I personally just think it is a way for GW to build big giant models and people say "DUDE that's huge I NEED that!" That's just a way for them to make more money because 100 bucks for a single unit seems outrageous imho.

Yes. Yes it is.

If I were starting my Sisters now, I'd be paying over 90 dollars for a 10-woman squad, and another 45 dollars for a transport.

And that unit will probably cost less than the Wraithknight and probably somewhat more than a third of a Baneblade, points-wise.

That's right. I compared the cost of the Wraithknight to the cost of a complete, bread-and-butter Sororitas squad. Come and get me.

The baneblade is just stupidly too large for 40k, as is the ridiculous wraithknight. This edition has totally jumped the shark.

A baneblade makes terrain meaningless because it should be able to just drive through ruins or any other buildings due to its size and power, if it cant then it is not really a baneblade.

My guess is that they may include the Knight Titan for Imperial forces to take in standard play to stand up to all these MCs coming out, esp when you consider the Wraithknight is only 2" shorter than a Warhound Titan.

In other news, Dreamforge leviathan sales are on the rise. ; )

I wish the space wolves get some unique mech or anti-air forces!

 Vivster wrote:
I wish the space wolves get some unique mech or anti-air forces!

The space wolves have already exceeded their allowance of daft models with the thunder wolfie cavalry

I personally think the the xeno codex will get large MC while Chaos got a uber flyer i think SM and IG will get some sort of large almost super heavy tanks, Large MC's arnt really their style.

The constant flow of Space Marine flyers is bad enough so I hope they don't get a Baby carrier or worse as well. The odd Artefact of the Older Legions is fine - perhaps a relic Superheavy or two.

Otherwise cool giant models nice

I'd love to see

Imperial Knight (mini Titan)- Ally (with Skitarii support) for all Imperial forces
Larger Tyranid Monsters
Sisters of Batlle War Shrine on banebalde chasis

arent Baneblades Str D? To hell with that. Thats literally the only reason i hate apoc games, Str D is what its based around 99% of the time. So many awesome and fun looking models, cant use them because a random Str D with 10-tables worth of range snipes them turn 1.

what they could do for a "uber" dreadnaught is to make it work similar to how warmachine does their jaxs. After a pen roll or glance has been made, you then roll what system; being like an arm, core/chest, or legs. Each system is destroyed individually and has separate HP and have an effect on the model's function IE: destroying the legs makes the model immobile, or loosing the ability to shoot a weapon mounted on an arm if its destroyed. Maybe, to put a more cinematic effect to it, maybe its chest section can totally destroy it outright.

They may end up bringing contemptor dreads out in C:SM... I know they're pre-heresy but it's the kinda thing GW does.

All I know is that the IG may soon find themselves throwing a BEIHNBLAADE!!! at everything...

 Selym wrote:
All I know is that the IG may soon find themselves throwing a BEIHNBLAADE!!! at everything...

Wait isn't that already their solution? I mean *coughs* naw. Instead, they will be throwing METAWL Knights at the enemy. Who needs Space Marines!?

 StarTrotter wrote:

 Selym wrote:
All I know is that the IG may soon find themselves throwing a BEIHNBLAADE!!! at everything...

Wait isn't that already their solution? I mean *coughs* naw. Instead, they will be throwing METAWL Knights at the enemy. Who needs Space Marines!?

People with too few METHUL BAWKSES need the marines

 Vineheart01 wrote:
arent Baneblades Str D? To hell with that. Thats literally the only reason i hate apoc games, Str D is what its based around 99% of the time. So many awesome and fun looking models, cant use them because a random Str D with 10-tables worth of range snipes them turn 1.

and this is the basis of all the anti FW stuff....... riiiiiight here....

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
arent Baneblades Str D? To hell with that. Thats literally the only reason i hate apoc games, Str D is what its based around 99% of the time. So many awesome and fun looking models, cant use them because a random Str D with 10-tables worth of range snipes them turn 1.

and this is the basis of all the anti FW stuff....... riiiiiight here....

I thought only the volcano cannon was a destroyer. The baneblade's main armament doesn't do that...

MrMoustaffa wrote:We have apocalypse for a reason guys.

I believe you meant "we have Epic for a reason".

While things were arguable before, the fact that eldar now straight get a Knight Titan in their codex is what really takes the gloves off. I can't but think we're going to see the gradual inclusion of more and more Epic units until... well... every codex has them until we get to Tau or Eldar again.

A dominatrix version of a swarmlord will show up.

Calling it right now.

 Selym wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
arent Baneblades Str D? To hell with that. Thats literally the only reason i hate apoc games, Str D is what its based around 99% of the time. So many awesome and fun looking models, cant use them because a random Str D with 10-tables worth of range snipes them turn 1.

and this is the basis of all the anti FW stuff....... riiiiiight here....

I thought only the volcano cannon was a destroyer. The baneblade's main armament doesn't do that...

I think that was ausYenLoWangs point. The basis for a lot of anti FW complaints is simply ignorance.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
arent Baneblades Str D? To hell with that. Thats literally the only reason i hate apoc games, Str D is what its based around 99% of the time. So many awesome and fun looking models, cant use them because a random Str D with 10-tables worth of range snipes them turn 1.

and this is the basis of all the anti FW stuff....... riiiiiight here....

I thought only the volcano cannon was a destroyer. The baneblade's main armament doesn't do that...

I think that was ausYenLoWangs point. The basis for a lot of anti FW complaints is simply ignorance.

Well, I think we all know the answer to the ignorance: Disallow destroyer weapons. That still leaves about 98% of FW stuff.

most of the time i see the anti side of FW in touneys is against the IG super cheap, un-playtested, broken units spammed in tourney lists. A quick google search gives a few. Then theirs HQs like the one SM libby thats godly broken at only, 160? points or so....then you have guns that make thunderfire cannons look like pee shooters with the amount on NON-D S firepower they bring, like the one that lays 12 Blast templates that has a crap ton of wounds at T7, ignores cover i believe too. I was listening to a podcast in the background one day while I painted, and this convo came up; one of the guys was talkign about why the DONTT use FW in a lot of tourney's and to prove it, he played a game with his buddy. Needless to say his friend quit after beign tabled in 1.5 turns, the aformention gun taking out roughly 600 points by itself for about a 200 point investment.

Case in point, sure, the SD weaponry should always be disallowed for regular games, but I'm not aware of any 40k approved SD firepower anyways, so its a moot point anyways. But don't paint every person who dislikes FW in regular games as ignorant fools bc their is a definite real reason that FW hasn't been allowed all this time.

Hoo boy here we go again, bring up a specific list of all those units and watch me, Sasori, Zebio, Loki, and Peregrine debunk all of them for the umpteenth time.

I wouldn't mind if they released say, a white dwarf, with some toned down rules for using the baneblade and it's variant's, and the ork stompa, in normal 40k games.

 Kain wrote:
Hoo boy here we go again, bring up a specific list of all those units and watch me, Sasori, Zebio, Loki, and Peregrine debunk all of them for the umpteenth time.

no, bc that would take this post off topic and start a flame war. I was hesitant to even post this once about FW, but all i saw was hate for a legitimate concern, so I spoke in his/their defense. ONCE. I won't be the cause of a circular argument that gets nowhere fast, especially if it means hijacking some1 else's post that has nothing to do with it.

overlordweasel wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Hoo boy here we go again, bring up a specific list of all those units and watch me, Sasori, Zebio, Loki, and Peregrine debunk all of them for the umpteenth time.

no, bc that would take this post off topic and start a flame war. I was hesitant to even post this once about FW, but all i saw was hate for a legitimate concern, so I spoke in his/their defense. ONCE. I won't be the cause of a circular argument that gets nowhere fast, especially if it means hijacking some1 else's post that has nothing to do with it.

Concession accepted.

 Selym wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
arent Baneblades Str D? To hell with that. Thats literally the only reason i hate apoc games, Str D is what its based around 99% of the time. So many awesome and fun looking models, cant use them because a random Str D with 10-tables worth of range snipes them turn 1.

and this is the basis of all the anti FW stuff....... riiiiiight here....

I thought only the volcano cannon was a destroyer. The baneblade's main armament doesn't do that...

I think that was ausYenLoWangs point. The basis for a lot of anti FW complaints is simply ignorance.

Well, I think we all know the answer to the ignorance: Disallow destroyer weapons. That still leaves about 98% of FW stuff.

You're still not getting it. Even saying 'disallow destroyer weapons' to these people is the same as 'disallow Forgeworld', because there's a huge amount of ignorance on just how good Forgeworld units are. The idea that someone thinks a Baneblade has a destroyer weapon, a unit that never had one in its Forgeworld incarnation (because destroyer weapons didn't even exist then) and never had one when GW took the kit for Apocalypse either, shows how much people don't know about Forgeworld stuff, let alone GW stuff.

 Evileyes wrote:
I wouldn't mind if they released say, a white dwarf, with some toned down rules for using the baneblade and it's variant's, and the ork stompa, in normal 40k games.

They did, it's called Spearhead. Not updated to 6th but still usable.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the Valkyrie is big enough for the IG. Dang thing is a monster. I would rather see new small light tanks than banblade chassis sized tanks.

here's a crazy idea....since they're just giving every army a MC...give the tyranids a TANKS...Like with an AV and everything!!! but make it like AV 6 with 7 HPs, an have a SR that it cant die until its HPs are depleted. And give it the ability to assault....we'll call it: the Tyrandrake!!!

Yo i heard you guise liked super heavies so we made this realy quick and just uped a old epic model.

phatonic wrote:
Yo i heard you guise liked super heavies so we made this realy quick and just uped a old epic model.

What, kinda like Baneblades and Stompas?

phatonic wrote:
Yo i heard you guise liked super heavies so we made this realy quick and just uped a old epic model.

To be fair, plenty of people have been pissing and moaning about GW ignoring the goldmine of Epic with their big model releases. Now they went back to Epic, and it's terrible because it's an old Epic model?

does that ting have a cannon for a?....oh my....

overlordweasel wrote:
does that ting have a cannon for a?....oh my....

Stomach? Why, yes it does.

(Seriously, if you think the wang should be there, you might want to see a doctor about your own genital placement).

It's not like it's an old-school Ork Great Gargant after all.

Subtle they aren't. See Avatar

<------

 Pouncey wrote:
:: gasps at the thought :: I hope so! : D

Because then I could maybe use my Baneblade that I primed but never painted! : D

GW released a baneblade model didn't they? There aren't 40K rules for it in IG book?

Are the rules for heavies, pg 83, used for any present vehicles? Even a Leman Russ doesn't really strike me as fitting the description as a mobile fortress, but a Baneblade sure would.

GW produced a Stompa too.

No rules for it in the Ork codex ..... Yet

 -Loki- wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
arent Baneblades Str D? To hell with that. Thats literally the only reason i hate apoc games, Str D is what its based around 99% of the time. So many awesome and fun looking models, cant use them because a random Str D with 10-tables worth of range snipes them turn 1.

and this is the basis of all the anti FW stuff....... riiiiiight here....

I thought only the volcano cannon was a destroyer. The baneblade's main armament doesn't do that...

I think that was ausYenLoWangs point. The basis for a lot of anti FW complaints is simply ignorance.

yarp you got it there, people have no idea what half the models do, all they look at is the titans and go NOOO LOOK, so all FW is considered to be apoc only. instead of people learning what the models can do OR just being open to the notion of them, and when one turns up at a game look over is data sheet and go ohh yeah, rather then the usual jump and scream "burn the heretic" at the sight of a FW book.

the baneblades concession to apoc is SP instead of HP. and superheavies wont make normal games of 40k. they are in 30k though in the LOW slot. The decimator dread for CSM is very much equipped like a forgefiend (butcher canons instead of hades ac with the same stats, but some other weapon options) , but cost around 300 pts iirc.

i could actually see the Stompa going in the normal Dex, just be pricy as hell lol. Cut off the Apoc weapon upgrades and now its just a very beefy walker with loads of average guns and maybe one bigger (but not massive) gun.
That meaning no Lifta Droppa since thats apoc stuff rofl. Lifta Droppa in normal games would be scary.

As fun as this would be (especially for me), I seriously doubt it. Things could get seriously out of hand in a big hurry. It's not just a question of scale though, baneblades are big and have big templates. And the problems don't stop there. Apoc doesn't use force organization, instead they use battle formations, these organize the armies and add special rules at a cost of points. There's also the strategic assets, and size of the battlefield. Put simply, apocalypse is designed around being a big game, and regular 40k is designed for tables.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
arent Baneblades Str D? To hell with that. Thats literally the only reason i hate apoc games, Str D is what its based around 99% of the time. So many awesome and fun looking models, cant use them because a random Str D with 10-tables worth of range snipes them turn 1.

and this is the basis of all the anti FW stuff....... riiiiiight here....

I thought only the volcano cannon was a destroyer. The baneblade's main armament doesn't do that...

I think that was ausYenLoWangs point. The basis for a lot of anti FW complaints is simply ignorance.

Well, I think we all know the answer to the ignorance: Disallow destroyer weapons. That still leaves about 98% of FW stuff.

You're still not getting it. Even saying 'disallow destroyer weapons' to these people is the same as 'disallow Forgeworld', because there's a huge amount of ignorance on just how good Forgeworld units are. The idea that someone thinks a Baneblade has a destroyer weapon, a unit that never had one in its Forgeworld incarnation (because destroyer weapons didn't even exist then) and never had one when GW took the kit for Apocalypse either, shows how much people don't know about Forgeworld stuff, let alone GW stuff.

I understand your point there, but it seems a little silly to me. Figuring out if something has a destroyer weapon is pretty much: "Does it usually go on a titan model? Is it a titan's CCW, or a gun that was named after what volcanoes do? That's destroyer."

 Selym wrote:
I understand your point there, but it seems a little silly to me. Figuring out if something has a destroyer weapon is pretty much: "Does it usually go on a titan model? Is it a titan's CCW, or a gun that was named after what volcanoes do? That's destroyer."

The point is that many people don't KNOW that. They hear "FW" and they immediately think that it must be some kind of super-Baneblade with 100x 10" blast D-weapons.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Selym wrote:
I understand your point there, but it seems a little silly to me. Figuring out if something has a destroyer weapon is pretty much: "Does it usually go on a titan model? Is it a titan's CCW, or a gun that was named after what volcanoes do? That's destroyer."

The point is that many people don't KNOW that. They hear "FW" and they immediately think that it must be some kind of super-Baneblade with 100x 10" blast D-weapons.

Ah, well. Maybe sometime in the future I'll go on a crusade with non-apoc FW rulebooks and armies, and educate them.

It would be nice!

I think the Monolith is the only current "heavy" vehicle.

overlordweasel wrote:
I think the Monolith is the only current "heavy" vehicle.

LRBT.

This image has been floating around my local gaming club recently, not sure if its real but it certainly looks like chaos are getting a super heavy tank..thing based on an epic model



Although you guys might already know about it and im a slowpoke

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
arent Baneblades Str D? To hell with that. Thats literally the only reason i hate apoc games, Str D is what its based around 99% of the time. So many awesome and fun looking models, cant use them because a random Str D with 10-tables worth of range snipes them turn 1.

and this is the basis of all the anti FW stuff....... riiiiiight here....

I thought only the volcano cannon was a destroyer. The baneblade's main armament doesn't do that...

I think that was ausYenLoWangs point. The basis for a lot of anti FW complaints is simply ignorance.

yarp you got it there, people have no idea what half the models do, all they look at is the titans and go NOOO LOOK, so all FW is considered to be apoc only. instead of people learning what the models can do OR just being open to the notion of them, and when one turns up at a game look over is data sheet and go ohh yeah, rather then the usual jump and scream "burn the heretic" at the sight of a FW book.

the baneblades concession to apoc is SP instead of HP. and superheavies wont make normal games of 40k. they are in 30k though in the LOW slot. The decimator dread for CSM is very much equipped like a forgefiend (butcher canons instead of hades ac with the same stats, but some other weapon options) , but cost around 300 pts iirc.

Well, lets be fair. Its not as if the information as to what these things do is easy to come by, at least legally. Unless you wanted to shell out, what 42 pounds sterling, per book and Forgeworld doesn't seem to give a list of what vehicles are in what books and they don't bother to send you a basic datafax of what the vehicle does if you purchase one! I think most people have good reason to be somewhat concerned when someone plunks a completely unknown model on the table, which might have rules that interact in funky ways. It doesn't take much reading on 40k sites like this to find people talking about how they have run into people using a rule in a regular codex to gain an advantage, only to find out they were using the rules completely wrong.

I like the looks of quite a bit of the Forgeworld stuff, I just want access to the rules on the things without having to take out a house loan before I am willing to play against them.



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 Vineheart01 wrote:
i could actually see the Stompa going in the normal Dex, just be pricy as hell lol. Cut off the Apoc weapon upgrades and now its just a very beefy walker with loads of average guns and maybe one bigger (but not massive) gun.
That meaning no Lifta Droppa since thats apoc stuff rofl. Lifta Droppa in normal games would be scary.

Pretty sure orcs had lifta droppas way back in 2nd ed. Although I have no idea if they are as good as the ones on the Stompa. Never played orcs but one of my friends did. I loved reading his codex, it was always amusing.

Unless you wanted to shell out, what 42 pounds sterling, per book and Forgeworld doesn't seem to give a list of what vehicles are in what books and they don't bother to send you a basic datafax of what the vehicle does if you purchase one! I think most people have good reason to be somewhat concerned when someone plunks a completely unknown model on the table, which might have rules that interact in funky ways

Codexes are each £30 and unlikely to not go up again - I used to own every one but given up now since the price hikes - how many other people own legitmate copies of every codex now?

If someone plonks the model down - he should have the rules and you can look through - same as if he brough out a Codex unit I don;t have the book for. I worry more if someone plonks 3 Valkyries down on the table and I know the rules for them.............

What GW kit includes the rules for each unit in the box apart from the starter set?

 AtomicEngineer wrote:
This image has been floating around my local gaming club recently, not sure if its real but it certainly looks like chaos are getting a super heavy tank..thing based on an epic model

Spoiler:

Although you guys might already know about it and im a slowpoke

yeah its an APOC unit... and cos of its looks it better have some sweet rules. eg tank shock and kill 20 orks (mow the grass) regain a SP

Chaos also bet baneblades, thunderhawks, reavers, warhounds and anything else in the Loyalists lists as well as a few other nice items


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Rumbleguts wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
arent Baneblades Str D? To hell with that. Thats literally the only reason i hate apoc games, Str D is what its based around 99% of the time. So many awesome and fun looking models, cant use them because a random Str D with 10-tables worth of range snipes them turn 1.

and this is the basis of all the anti FW stuff....... riiiiiight here....

I thought only the volcano cannon was a destroyer. The baneblade's main armament doesn't do that...

I think that was ausYenLoWangs point. The basis for a lot of anti FW complaints is simply ignorance.

yarp you got it there, people have no idea what half the models do, all they look at is the titans and go NOOO LOOK, so all FW is considered to be apoc only. instead of people learning what the models can do OR just being open to the notion of them, and when one turns up at a game look over is data sheet and go ohh yeah, rather then the usual jump and scream "burn the heretic" at the sight of a FW book.

the baneblades concession to apoc is SP instead of HP. and superheavies wont make normal games of 40k. they are in 30k though in the LOW slot. The decimator dread for CSM is very much equipped like a forgefiend (butcher canons instead of hades ac with the same stats, but some other weapon options) , but cost around 300 pts iirc.

and just a quick one here as well, someone plonks some giant FW unit down, go cough cough do you mind producing the book with the rules for this (aka dex) so i can read up on them prior to deployment.... ohh its a superheavey you cant use that sorry its not legal for normal 40k yadda yadda



Well, lets be fair. Its not as if the information as to what these things do is easy to come by, at least legally. Unless you wanted to shell out, what 42 pounds sterling, per book and Forgeworld doesn't seem to give a list of what vehicles are in what books and they don't bother to send you a basic datafax of what the vehicle does if you purchase one! I think most people have good reason to be somewhat concerned when someone plunks a completely unknown model on the table, which might have rules that interact in funky ways. It doesn't take much reading on 40k sites like this to find people talking about how they have run into people using a rule in a regular codex to gain an advantage, only to find out they were using the rules completely wrong.

I like the looks of quite a bit of the Forgeworld stuff, I just want access to the rules on the things without having to take out a house loan before I am willing to play against them.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i could actually see the Stompa going in the normal Dex, just be pricy as hell lol. Cut off the Apoc weapon upgrades and now its just a very beefy walker with loads of average guns and maybe one bigger (but not massive) gun.
That meaning no Lifta Droppa since thats apoc stuff rofl. Lifta Droppa in normal games would be scary.

Pretty sure orcs had lifta droppas way back in 2nd ed. Although I have no idea if they are as good as the ones on the Stompa. Never played orcs but one of my friends did. I loved reading his codex, it was always amusing.

My knee jerk reaction is no. Superheavies will stay in Planet Strike, Apocalypse, and other scenario games.

However, they fit fliers into the standard rule book. That might have been a test run that would later open the door for super heavies in 7th edition basic rule book.

I can see it, but I'd rather they left them the hell in Apocalypse.

What if they went with a slot like 30k's Lord Of War, only usable above 2k points and can only be a superheavy?

Define "they". Super heavy tanks only? Anything, including Titans? I don't ever want to see a Titan outside of apocalypse.

That might work for the likes of baneblades, but they would still dominate in games of 2000 points, I feel. Especially the ones with transport capacity and fire points.

sorry they i meant 7th ed.

is a titan classified as a superheavy? i thought they were a step above?
i was thinking the likes of superheavies (baneblade, THawks, stompas, that kind of thing, screw a titan, thats as you say a NO

i was thinking 7th ed havinga new FOC that has 1 slot at 2k for a Superheavy.

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
sorry they i meant 7th ed.

is a titan classified as a superheavy? i thought they were a step above?
i was thinking the likes of superheavies (baneblade, THawks, stompas, that kind of thing, screw a titan, thats as you say a NO

i was thinking 7th ed havinga new FOC that has 1 slot at 2k for a Superheavy.

Titans and Stompas are Super Heavy Walkers
Make it 2001+ points that way nobody gets duped into playing against one. Although we already have to play "1999+1" games this edition.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
sorry they i meant 7th ed.

is a titan classified as a superheavy? i thought they were a step above?
i was thinking the likes of superheavies (baneblade, THawks, stompas, that kind of thing, screw a titan, thats as you say a NO

i was thinking 7th ed havinga new FOC that has 1 slot at 2k for a Superheavy.

Titans and Stompas are Super Heavy Walkers
Make it 2001+ points that way nobody gets duped into playing against one. Although we already have to play "1999+1" games this edition.

thats why i went 2000 cos thats the point you get a second FOC in this edition

and ahhh so titans are a superheavy, shame apoc 2 is coming out and they wont get re ruled to a titan unit, so superheavy is for other things... then that could sort that out..

I highly doubt the full bore super heavies will be in standard battles. A baneblade alone carries enough firepower and armor to obliterate nearly 5 times its points value in a single barrage.
not to mention the numerous baneblade variants and all their weapons of mass destruction.


At most the smaller "Heavy" tanks like the Malcador or some other tank that is larger then the Leman Russ could be introduced. not sure what exactly. but it would be interesting.

If I remember right. in terms of size.
Leman Russ -> Malcador -> Macharius -> Baneblade-> Levthiathan -> other craziness.

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
sorry they i meant 7th ed.

is a titan classified as a superheavy? i thought they were a step above?
i was thinking the likes of superheavies (baneblade, THawks, stompas, that kind of thing, screw a titan, thats as you say a NO

i was thinking 7th ed havinga new FOC that has 1 slot at 2k for a Superheavy.

Titans and Stompas are Super Heavy Walkers
Make it 2001+ points that way nobody gets duped into playing against one. Although we already have to play "1999+1" games this edition.

thats why i went 2000 cos thats the point you get a second FOC in this edition

and ahhh so titans are a superheavy, shame apoc 2 is coming out and they wont get re ruled to a titan unit, so superheavy is for other things... then that could sort that out..

They don't need to be classified as anything else. The distinction between Monstrous Creature/Gargantuan Creature and Vehicle/Super Heavy Vehicle is plenty. If it's super heavy or gargantuan, it's limited to Apocalypse. If they want to move them to regular 40k, stop classifying them as gargantuan or super heavy and stick them in a codex. They did exactly this with the Trygon.

 Engine of War wrote:
I highly doubt the full bore super heavies will be in standard battles. A baneblade alone carries enough firepower and armor to obliterate nearly 5 times its points value in a single barrage.

Err, no. A Baneblade is NOT killing 2500 points of stuff in a single barrage, unless you do something stupid like put a unit of "how expensive can I make them" death company into perfect pie plate formation with no cover.

This of course is the problem: most people don't actually understand what Apocalypse-scale units are capable of, they just think "OMG HUGE TANK IT MUST KILL EVERYTHING" no matter how weak the actual rules are.

A baneblade can probably kill its own points worth in a single turn of shooting. When you factor in that it's very hard to destroy in a normal game of 40k, it'd definitely be way OP as-is.

But feel free to take one person's exaggeration and disprove it to make a point.

 BryllCream wrote:
A baneblade can probably kill its own points worth in a single turn of shooting.

If you're standing high points cost units in the open in front of it, it sure can. If its battle cannon or demolisher cannon miss, it's not killing much at all. If there's only low cost squads it can see, it's not killing much at all.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Engine of War wrote:
I highly doubt the full bore super heavies will be in standard battles. A baneblade alone carries enough firepower and armor to obliterate nearly 5 times its points value in a single barrage.

Err, no. A Baneblade is NOT killing 2500 points of stuff in a single barrage, unless you do something stupid like put a unit of "how expensive can I make them" death company into perfect pie plate formation with no cover.

This of course is the problem: most people don't actually understand what Apocalypse-scale units are capable of, they just think "OMG HUGE TANK IT MUST KILL EVERYTHING" no matter how weak the actual rules are.

I know it won't kill 2500 points. but it will do a serious amount of damage and a heck of a lot more damage then the heaviest weapons platform you could get in standard battles in terms of bullets thrown.

But still. I doubt that Baneblades and other super heavies would be brought into standards.

 BryllCream wrote:
A baneblade can probably kill its own points worth in a single turn of shooting. When you factor in that it's very hard to destroy in a normal game of 40k, it'd definitely be way OP as-is.

But feel free to take one person's exaggeration and disprove it to make a point.

I'd agree with you if the Baneblade were facing an army of over 2000 points.
The Baneblade has the odd effect of being less effective the smaller the game is.

A small army will hide in heavy cover and throw Lascannon-equivalents at it, while it shuffles around looking for a target, and trying to not get stuck in terrain pieces...

 Selym wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:
A baneblade can probably kill its own points worth in a single turn of shooting. When you factor in that it's very hard to destroy in a normal game of 40k, it'd definitely be way OP as-is.

But feel free to take one person's exaggeration and disprove it to make a point.

I'd agree with you if the Baneblade were facing an army of over 2000 points.
The Baneblade has the odd effect of being less effective the smaller the game is.

A small army will hide in heavy cover and throw Lascannon-equivalents at it, while it shuffles around looking for a target, and trying to not get stuck in terrain pieces...

This is true. When Imperial Armour came out ages ago, my brother and a friend played a 'kill the Baneblade' game, 1500pts. The friend just used fast moving skimmers with multi meltas to stay out of Line of Sight, got close, and nuked it, while the Baneblade plinked away at scout squads in cover doing not much at all.

 Engine of War wrote:
and a heck of a lot more damage then the heaviest weapons platform you could get in standard battles in terms of bullets thrown.

Not really. For 500 points you can get three LRBTs of various types, which are easily matching its firepower. And on defense the Baneblade isn't all that scary either, drop pod combi-melta sternguard and similar tank killers will deal with it just fine.


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 -Loki- wrote:
If there's only low cost squads it can see, it's not killing much at all.

Or vehicles. Against vehicles the Baneblade is 500 points for an ordnance lascannon, a demolisher cannon, and two single lascannons. It's underwhelming against even Rhinos, and nearly useless against anything with AV 14 or good cover saves.

The way I see it, it is possible that GW would give the IG codex a baneblade, as there is a realistic chance of winning against one.

Also, it has no destroyer weapons.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Engine of War wrote:
and a heck of a lot more damage then the heaviest weapons platform you could get in standard battles in terms of bullets thrown.

Not really. For 500 points you can get three LRBTs of various types, which are easily matching its firepower. And on defense the Baneblade isn't all that scary either, drop pod combi-melta sternguard and similar tank killers will deal with it just fine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 -Loki- wrote:
If there's only low cost squads it can see, it's not killing much at all.

Or vehicles. Against vehicles the Baneblade is 500 points for an ordnance lascannon, a demolisher cannon, and two single lascannons. It's underwhelming against even Rhinos, and nearly useless against anything with AV 14 or good cover saves.

wow what russes can you get for 500 points that match a baneblade? I wasn't aware there was a Russ with a seven inch blast template.

 sudojoe wrote:
Just had a random thought cross my mind but do you guys think that we'll get super heavies soon in regular games of 40k?

Given the sheer size of the wraithlord, it might as well be an APOC game. I want to throw baneblades at the thing so much lol. Maybe 7th edition or maybe just the next IG codex? (Baneblades are one of the few Apoc only units sold on GW web page and I've always wondered why it's only ever in APOC)

You already do. It's called Spearhead

Still waiting for strategic bombers. Maybe it's time to scratch build a 'Lorkcaster' quad engine flyer with mahreen-busta bombz?

I honestly don't mind the the bigger models, IN MODERATION. It does seem like GW is pushing toward a saturation point that will kill the setting.

I love the idea of enjoying the larger models, but I really like the idea of keeping Apocalypse seperate to enjoy as a spin-off. The idea of cluttering an already forced ruleset, with flyers being introduces, with super heavy tanks seems like it would be painful for 6th.

 BryllCream wrote:
A baneblade can probably kill its own points worth in a single turn of shooting. When you factor in that it's very hard to destroy in a normal game of 40k, it'd definitely be way OP as-is.

I've played 7 or 8 apocalypse games. Each has had at least 2 baneblades. It's rare to see one take out more than a land raider and a unit of troops in a turn. Can it kill that much? Sometimes. Rarely. Maybe.

Personally, the most damage I've ever seen a Baneblade do is when they've suffered an apocalyptic explosion, and it was mostly their own units they destroyed.

However, I'm still not sold on Super Heavies in normal games. I'd rather they remained "special" in Apocalypse and Planet Strike or other add-on games.

Saw a few games at the club with Banblades - our Tau player killed them before they even got to fire :( (old codex).

Played a 1500pts plus Stompa vs 2000pts plus Baneblade (*) which was good fun........and had no real issues.

(*) I thought we were playing 1500 - when we playing 2000 - Doh!