I have been waiting forever for a 40K MMO, it was too bad that THQ screwed the pooch with "Dark Millennium" with their poor business decisions. I'm REALLY hoping this title will vindicate the 40K franchise. The sad part is the LONG wait as right now the scheduled release date is late 2015.
At any rate....I personally CAN'T WAIT.....FOR THE EMPEROR!!!
Good question, looks like there is about zero information available right now. We were just discussing it here this morning. Based on the voices in the audio clips at the website I heard;
Space Marine, Chaos Space Marine, Orks, Eldar?
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Nobody_Holme wrote: Note: developers are specialists in phone games and browser MMOs.
Don't expect too much.
That is a valid point, however. . . Games Workshop is pretty good at protecting the Warhammer franchise as far as gameplay and sticking to the lore and background. I haven't played a bad Warhammer/Warhammer 40K game, they usually do a great job. I just can't see them releasing a game like this as a "browser game" or "phone game". Time will tell.
I think the last voice sounded very necron'y, I can't imagine the eldar saying what they said.
However, The game is due in 2015, so these might just be -some- of the potential races, they could come out with more, or else, do the MMO thing of releasing expansions with new races to play
Evileyes wrote: I think the last voice sounded very necron'y, I can't imagine the eldar saying what they said.
However, The game is due in 2015, so these might just be -some- of the potential races, they could come out with more, or else, do the MMO thing of releasing expansions with new races to play
I, honestly, cannot wait. At all
Actually, I think you're right. That does sound more like a Necron point of view.
Evileyes wrote: I think the last voice sounded very necron'y, I can't imagine the eldar saying what they said.
However, The game is due in 2015, so these might just be -some- of the potential races, they could come out with more, or else, do the MMO thing of releasing expansions with new races to play
I, honestly, cannot wait. At all
Actually, I think you're right. That does sound more like a Necron point of view.
It also sounds very much like a Biel-Tan point of view as well.
Also you can see the weapon from the Codex Eldar in the bottom right as the quote is done, it's a Banshee Power-Sword (Another hint towards Biel-Tan)
Some races are only really suited to being NPC's. Guardsmen are one, because most are far weaker than the elites of other races, and those who are not weak, lead armies, rather than take on smaller scale missions, like the marines, chaos marines, eldar, even necrons would. Orks are an odd choice, but I imagine you will not be playing your average boy, but rather a nob, or nob equivalent (Painboy=healer, Flash git for shooting, Nob for combat )
Evileyes wrote: Some races are only really suited to being NPC's. Guardsmen are one, because most are far weaker than the elites of other races, and those who are not weak, lead armies, rather than take on smaller scale missions, like the marines, chaos marines, eldar, even necrons would. Orks are an odd choice, but I imagine you will not be playing your average boy, but rather a nob, or nob equivalent (Painboy=healer, Flash git for shooting, Nob for combat )
Retribution showed that a Tyranid campaign could work.
Evileyes wrote: Some races are only really suited to being NPC's. Guardsmen are one, because most are far weaker than the elites of other races, and those who are not weak, lead armies, rather than take on smaller scale missions, like the marines, chaos marines, eldar, even necrons would. Orks are an odd choice, but I imagine you will not be playing your average boy, but rather a nob, or nob equivalent (Painboy=healer, Flash git for shooting, Nob for combat )
Retribution showed that a Tyranid campaign could work.
Yes, but not in an MMO format. You couldn't play as a giant monster, because there are only a small number of them. Likewise, you couldn't play as a small troop tyranid, because they rely on strength in numbers, not of the individual.
It would also make things like quests, not very fun. Your quest is to kill these. Then kill them. Then kill this. Then that. Tyranid's have no other priorities. They make for the perfect MMO -enemy- but not a perfect player character.
Most of the other races take equipment also, which is a thing in MMO's. While yes, you could make it biomorphs, you would still end up with a bunch of tyranids who look, for the most part, all the same.
If all the races are playable, there will be no real NPC enemies, which would be weird.
Evileyes wrote: Some races are only really suited to being NPC's. Guardsmen are one, because most are far weaker than the elites of other races, and those who are not weak, lead armies, rather than take on smaller scale missions, like the marines, chaos marines, eldar, even necrons would. Orks are an odd choice, but I imagine you will not be playing your average boy, but rather a nob, or nob equivalent (Painboy=healer, Flash git for shooting, Nob for combat )
Retribution showed that a Tyranid campaign could work.
Yes, but not in an MMO format. You couldn't play as a giant monster, because there are only a small number of them. Likewise, you couldn't play as a small troop tyranid, because they rely on strength in numbers, not of the individual.
It would also make things like quests, not very fun. Your quest is to kill these. Then kill them. Then kill this. Then that. Tyranid's have no other priorities. They make for the perfect MMO -enemy- but not a perfect player character.
Most of the other races take equipment also, which is a thing in MMO's. While yes, you could make it biomorphs, you would still end up with a bunch of tyranids who look, for the most part, all the same.
If all the races are playable, there will be no real NPC enemies, which would be weird.
Well at least Tyranids should be billed as a greater threat than Chaos as is proper.
Ultimately, the 40K universe is designed to be balanced at the "army" level, and not the individual level. Any kind of shooter that tries to do that compromises that vision.
So it will be interesting to see how they decide to handle it. I am pretty much always skeptical of any attempt to do an MMO game based on the 40K franchise. Space Marine was fun, but that was because the two sides were Marines, and Chaos Marines, which are more or less equivalent.
As I said in the video games section... sounds really lame, just about everything I hear about it makes it sound worse than before.
"Hurr, it'll take five Ork Boyz to take down a spehzz muhreenz" comes to mind. It'll be so great playing Orks and being both outnumbered by Space Marine fanboys AND five times less powerful than each one.
I'm intrigued but have low expectations. The few games I recognize from the dev's list were decent to good, but they still don't have a great track record of big releases or online games. I'm not big into MMORGPs anymore, but I'd at least give this a try, especially if Orks and Eldar are in there... even better if DEldar show up.
I imagine it could be squad based, something akin to SWTOR. That would make sense, I think, and allow you to feel more proper in the gameplay style. Hopefully the squads would be a bit bigger, however.
I don't have particularly high hopes for it to be perfectly honest. As VetSarge said, 40k is balanced at the army level, not the individual level. That has problems in an MMO where you play as a single character. It would be one thing were you to be starting off as a Nob or an Aspect Warrior or whatever, but apparently that is not the case.
Oh yeah, and Tyranids will be besieging the outnumbering Space Marines every battle. Fun.
I just hope they make it really hard to become top tier regardless of level. The last thing any of us want is hundreds of squealing prepubescent space marines running around shouting 'your mum,'or posting semi-illiterate nonsense.
I hope they adopt a new system but I know they won't. It's too much to ask that a game actually push boundaries now a days. Plus we've got the culture of everyone must win and be the best all the time.
Personally I'd prefer something where you HAVE to work as a unit or get penalised. Maybe some form of pseudo governmental structure in the game.
Sounds like Planetside, or Tera, or any of the other new-gen action-MMO games where combat is all real-time and predominantly skill-based, rather than heavily gear/stat based.
This could be good. On the other hand, it could be terrible.
kronk wrote: Really not interested in video games anymore, but I hope this doesn't suck and pulls people into the 40k hobby.
How can you not be interested in being a black templar space marine and bludgeoning people to death whilst singing songs?
Its every little boy's dream come true!
I play way less video games than I used to do, now usually just strategy and RPG stuff, I actually played wow for years but wrapped on it last year when Kung Fu Panda and Pokemon made an appearance....
So I am well up for a replacement.. my mighty cat druid has been retired and now spends his evenings curled up in a tree licking his own arse.
Melissia wrote: As I said in the video games section... sounds really lame, just about everything I hear about it makes it sound worse than before.
"Hurr, it'll take five Ork Boyz to take down a spehzz muhreenz" comes to mind. It'll be so great playing Orks and being both outnumbered by Space Marine fanboys AND five times less powerful than each one.
Plenty of games have balancing features when one side has to play as the gribblies.
It's just a question of how well it is executed. I mean, if it didn't take a bunch of Orks to take down a Space Marine in an even fight, then it wouldn't be 40K, and they wouldn't be Space Marines. Or Orks, for that matter.
Demigod wrote: That is a valid point, however. . . Games Workshop is pretty good at protecting the Warhammer franchise as far as gameplay and sticking to the lore and background. I haven't played a bad Warhammer/Warhammer 40K game, they usually do a great job. I just can't see them releasing a game like this as a "browser game" or "phone game". Time will tell.
I don't think he meant the game will be made as a phone/browser game. Took him a tad too literally there. He means the company isn't specialised in producing the sorts of games this is going to be, so, as he is saying, it probably wont be very good
Will I get away with this one?
Apparently I will. Everyone's saying the same thing.
I figure if there arent enough orks to be fielded, then we wont see nids attacking them all the time but more so see NPC orks. Most will be the F2P people but some will just blindly run at the objective da bigger orks set out. Maybe? I dont really know. My only hope is that if i pick up a sniper rifle, and i shoot a fool in the head, that he dies(headshots count as rending essentially?). Execpt for special Invuln type upgrades. If they make that happen for me then ill be happy with this game without Tau being in it. As long as the gameplay and everything matches what they've dreamed it up to be..........
i might be interested.... of course i would like to be a guardsman but it seems like thats not going to happen. so i guess orks then... i hope they have stormboys
I have zero confidence in its execution. The difference between LotR' evil mode and this game is that the evil mode is completely optional.
Are you concerned because it seems to be almost entirely PVP orientated?
Don't worry Melissia, I have read the full synopsis and they have planned for every contingency.
If that is the case, you can gaily while away the hours chained to a desk in an administrative role for your imperialist masters, or perhaps you would enjoy a more thrilling position, working in a mine for 15 hours a day on a hive.
I can see it now.. the gripping and suspenseful role of an imperial citizen, stationed so far from the front line he has to send his laundry forwards.
You do know that some people play MMOs for the Crafting or Economic systems, and give not a single gak about the combat aspects, right?
As has been demonstrated time and time again by a long list of MMOs, PVP-focused gameplay winds up with a very hardcore, but very, very small, fanbase. This does not bode well for a title like Warhammer 40K.
Ooh, how exciting! I've been waiting for a new 40k game since Space Marine.
I do hope Tyranids do become playable. What could probably work is playing as medium-sized gribblies like Warriors, Lictors, Zoanthropes, Raveners, Shrikes, etc. To incorperate the swarm aspect, perhaps synapse creatures could take control of and command non-synapse creatures.
Though the though of playing as a carnifex, mawloc, or flyrant is all too tempting
So is that stuff about making Space Marines pay2play legit? Whats an Ork player with money gonna get out of the game then?
I mean why not just start the Imperial Faction as Imperial Guard? Boom, theres fodder on every side and its fun for all of us.
I'm really hoping for Planetside with 40k aesthetics. Or even C&C Renegade. If it's like WoW I'm not touching it with a ten foot pole.
Earn points playing as basic fodder, spend points to play as your actual character who is persistant across games. If he dies, you've gotta go do your time on the front again. Now we have a handful of uberdudes and a wave of rank and file every game.
Dakkamite wrote: So is that stuff about making Space Marines pay2play legit? Whats an Ork player with money gonna get out of the game then?
I mean why not just start the Imperial Faction as Imperial Guard? Boom, theres fodder on every side and its fun for all of us.
I'm really hoping for Planetside with 40k aesthetics. Or even C&C Renegade. If it's like WoW I'm not touching it with a ten foot pole.
Earn points playing as basic fodder, spend points to play as your actual character who is persistant across games. If he dies, you've gotta go do your time on the front again. Now we have a handful of uberdudes and a wave of rank and file every game.
I think ity could work if it turns into each player is a squad leader?
Squads take away from flexibility. I remember playing Halo 3 when it first came out. I literally had 400+ hours on Halo 2, top player in my town and everything. But that goddamn NPC arbiter following me around was so bad that I quit the franchise.
Eternal Crusade will follow a free-to-play model, but non-paying players are restricted in faction and progression. “They can only be Orkboyz! It takes five Orkboyz in the tabletop game to take down one Space Marine!” Miguel's excitement grew with every breath. Free players cannot progress in military rank beyond officer.
tl;dr: If you don't pay you might as well not play because you'll exist for the sole purpose of being slaughtered by everyone else.
On the extremely scant information I've seen, it looks weak. Way too early to say obviously, but I have very little hope for this.
MMOs tend to die rapidly even when they have mass appeal. Which a 40k MMO will have less of than say a game based on the Star Wars franchise...backed by a company with great RPG history and sharing a name with one of the greatest scifi RPGs ever. You know the one that lasted like 5 minutes.
Five Shoota boyz will outshoot a Space Marine. Doubly so when theres cover on the board and not some bogus western quickdraw situation
Five Slugga boyz will outfight a space marine in assault.
Five Sluggas charging a space marine from across a blank open field at maximum range will likely lose to the space marine. But in actually likely situation, Orks > Spruce mohrines every time
Evileyes wrote: Orks are an odd choice, but I imagine you will not be playing your average boy, but rather a nob, or nob equivalent (Painboy=healer, Flash git for shooting, Nob for combat )
On the contrary, Orks are an excellent choice for an RPG. Unlike other races, orks genuinely thrive in battle, growing bigger and stronger in prolonged battles. This obviously lends itself excellently to a system where you level up off xp and get more health and higher stats, going from a yoof to a boy, to nob, to bigboss, to warboss. There's also, as you mentioned, a high degree of specialisation available to orks. All manner of oddboys with cool wargear available to them, or even just specialisations of your average warrior type: Lootas, burna boys, kommandos, stormboys, tankbustas.
Man, Orks are just made for RPGs. I don't know why GW hasn't made one yet.
Well the game wil be for PC Xbox One, and PS4 thats what the release says.
Qoute from their site:
Behaviour Interactive has obtained the rights to create a wholly new MMORPG persistent war experience for PC, PS4 and Xbox One set in Games Workshop’s universe of the 41st Millennium.
Psienesis wrote: You do know that some people play MMOs for the Crafting or Economic systems, and give not a single gak about the combat aspects, right?
As has been demonstrated time and time again by a long list of MMOs, PVP-focused gameplay winds up with a very hardcore, but very, very small, fanbase. This does not bode well for a title like Warhammer 40K.
This is very accurate, an MMO without an interesting economy will not last nor will it have broad appeal. Probably just as important is the ability to level up and do interesting stuff during solo play. A lot of people like to just log on and noodle around for an hour or so just to relax. This is how my wife likes to play FFXI and I know tons of players who just enjoy farming, crafting, questing.
There needs to be an interesting end game and people love their shiny gear so if there is not much gear to be upgraded etc, then the game wont last. There is so much known about what people expect out of a MMO but companies either cant afford or dont know how to implement stuff so time and again MMOs die off/fail.
A 40K MMO could be really amazing and fun or it could blow monkey chunks. It is way too early to tell how this one will do but it does not sound promising with the minimal info we have. If the only job is essentially "warrior" then this game will deserve to die a quick death.
Griddlelol wrote: On the extremely scant information I've seen, it looks weak. Way too early to say obviously, but I have very little hope for this.
MMOs tend to die rapidly even when they have mass appeal. Which a 40k MMO will have less of than say a game based on the Star Wars franchise...backed by a company with great RPG history and sharing a name with one of the greatest scifi RPGs ever. You know the one that lasted like 5 minutes.
SWTOR failed mainly because of the following:
a) The community of players, by and large, was terrible. This killed the RP communities, the PVE experience and the PvP experience.
b) The Devs made a conscious, active choice to fundamentally change certain storylines based on the gender of the character going through it. A personal friend of mine, playing her Twi'Lek Smuggler/Gunslinger, was *pissed* that her character's Story Quest was so sanitized because she played a female character. She, being a lesbian, was also pissed off that, though a Romance Option existed, it was entirely hetero, unlike other Bioware games released recently. She said she wouldn't have minded if it was something that she could turn off, but certain characters would constantly interrupt game-play trying to trigger the Romance Option dialogs. Eventually, she stopped using the offending Companions, at all, and then stopped playing entirely.
c) The PvP focus was badly balanced, and had never been designed with the concept that 95% of the playerbase would choose Sith.
d) Poor balance within the factions meant that, if you were playing Republic, you would reach Flashpoint stages of your quests, and progress would come to a screeching halt, because there were not enough Republic players of similar level and quest-progression to reliably run the instances.
@Psiensis, I am curious about your remark that the playerbase was terrible. What do you mean by this? Is your judgement based on playing, forums? Was it full of kids too young to be playing it?
I would expect the game to be full of players that were hardcore Star Wars fans and dedicated to the game?
Evileyes wrote: I think the last voice sounded very necron'y, I can't imagine the eldar saying what they said.
However, The game is due in 2015, so these might just be -some- of the potential races, they could come out with more, or else, do the MMO thing of releasing expansions with new races to play
Behaviour Interactive and Games Workshop® proudly announce a new online game in the Warhammer® 40,000® universe: Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade. Behaviour Interactive has obtained the rights to create a wholly new MMORPG persistent war experience for PC, PS4 and Xbox One set in Games Workshop’s universe of the 41st Millennium. In the game, players choose a Warhammer 40,000® race and fight directly as one of their warriors in massive conflicts for territory. It will be up to each faction’s community to determine their own destiny as they vie for control of an entire planet.
1) 40k has always been more shooty than assaulty and shooter MMOs always seem a bit lacking (planetside is about the only one that is even remotely good, but even that one gets lame)
2) They will never be able to impliment every race without doing some HUGE lore revamping. So many races that are buddies with one race are hateful enemies of their buddy's buddy, so making 2 factions would be next to impossible (And Dark Age of Camelot comes to mind when theres more than 2 factions...bad juju)
Psienesis wrote: You do know that some people play MMOs for the Crafting or Economic systems, and give not a single gak about the combat aspects, right?
As has been demonstrated time and time again by a long list of MMOs, PVP-focused gameplay winds up with a very hardcore, but very, very small, fanbase. This does not bode well for a title like Warhammer 40K.
There are games that do both VERY well. Eve-Online comes to mind. PvP focused gameplay for end-game but one can certainly delve deeply into production, exploration and missions.
I think the problem lies in that everybody seems to look at WoW and try to emulate too many of the properties that made it popular. Granted it worked very well for WoW, but without a game developed to basically have enough content to rival a game that has years of content already established...some paradigm breaking addition must be made. So far, no MMO has done so, and many have tried. Some were great ideas but poorly executed, and that caused them to not compete.
I'm curious to see what they attempt to add to do this.
Dakkamite wrote:
I mean why not just start the Imperial Faction as Imperial Guard? .
Space Marines are the flagship product/image/concept of 40K. It's just the way of the world.
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Dakkamite wrote: He *is* referring specifically to the tabletop game mate...
One Marine vs Five Orks? Money on the Orks every time.
Well, the tabletop isn't exactly very accurate in depicting the universe. It's just a rule set designed to sell armies of plastic toy soldiers. If you only needed 15 Space Marines to play, they wouldn't sell nearly as much overpriced plastic.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I will say this, though. If it's a game based around microtransactions, it's definitely being developed by a company used to making Facebook and mobile games.
After reading that interview, my expectations have plummeted.
JWhex wrote: @Psiensis, I am curious about your remark that the playerbase was terrible. What do you mean by this? Is your judgement based on playing, forums? Was it full of kids too young to be playing it?
I would expect the game to be full of players that were hardcore Star Wars fans and dedicated to the game?
Mind you, my perceptions are all based on the RP server that I played on from launch day to ~6 months in.
First, the chat channels on every planet were filled with the worst kind of neckbeards. SW Ep1 came out the year after I was born, and I can remember seeing ESB in the theatres, so I'm not some Johnny-come-lately to Star Wars fandom, but even I recognize that they're going to change some things for a video game, because of the play experience and, also, design and engine limitations. These people, though, would *not* shut up about any sort of "canon deviancy" they found in the game. They bitched, constantly, that all the PC races were humanoids (because when you have to design several hundred armor sets for a dozen different races and two genders, you're going to make this as easy as possible for your dev team, and having them all be humanoid is one way to do that) and there were none of the winged races, the sentient crystals in robot bodies, the Ent-like tree-race, or Hutts as playable characters, just to post some that I particularly remember people whining about.
Certain cliques within the RP community refused to allow player interpretation or storywriting. They wanted a strict, by-the-books-of-canon server-wide RP community. This, I can tell you, does *not* work in an MMO and, normally, that's ok, because you can have your canon-crusaders have their RP stuff over here, and then other people that want to RP as space-vampires can RP over there, and the drama-kids who are RPing in order to partake of whatever their fetish is this week can RP in that corner there, and everyone is happy.
That is not what happened in TOR though. People would disrupt each other's RP events. Not just the usual gang of trolls and douchebags who exist to make the MMO experience terrible for everyone but themselves, but people who were otherwise actively involved in the RP community. They'd show up at events to hurl dozens of Cryogrenades around, or spam the place with the various confetti and hologram devices. They'd have created a character as large and obese as one could, to stand on the bar and "teabag" people trying to RP. And, all too often, once you got to the later planets that were cross-factional, if a Republic character walked into the local cantina, 50 Sith RPers would then attempt to rape them, regardless of gender or race.
... and all this on top of the typical WoW-chat of 12 year old racists talking about the sexual proclivities of your mother.
Dakkamite wrote: Aside from that Orkboyz comment it looks really good.
But that comment is like, pure poison. It does not take five fething Orks to kill a beakie.
There's no way to know for sure how many Orks is necessary to take down one Space Marine. We can only know that ALL Orks in the immediate area will try to take down a Space Marine. I don't think there's a min/max number.
a) The community of players, by and large, was terrible. This killed the RP communities, the PVE experience and the PvP experience.
Applicable to all MMOs.
b) ...poor role play potential...
This one is the only relevant point. A 40K MMO will have little role play potential anyway, faceless marine, faceless chaos marine, generic boy don't really have much in the way of personality or relationships.
c) The PvP focus was badly balanced, and had never been designed with the concept that 95% of the playerbase would choose Sith.
Similar to the concept that 95% (or another stat pulled from thin air) of players will want to play space marines.
d) Poor balance within the factions meant that, if you were playing Republic, you would reach Flashpoint stages of your quests, and progress would come to a screeching halt, because there were not enough Republic players of similar level and quest-progression to reliably run the instances.
Basically the same as point c).
I have even less faith that this dev team will do a good job, they mainly make mobile games as far as I can tell. If experienced game developers in bioware and EA can't do a good job, I highly doubt these guy will. I really hope they prove me wrong though. With the bar set so incredibly low by the previous attempt at a warhammer MMO they will at least improve on that.
Ok, I was pondering this today while I was out walking, how to make the game decent.
Cos I agree with the majority, its really difficult to make a pvp game genuinely work across the board, so how about this..
I play Space Marine still, its good on cap and control especially because nobody has better gear than anybody else, and it divvys the teams up prior to the game starting, to make it fair.
So why not, when you start the game, you have to play for an hour or two with each faction to get your ork/SM/Eldar or what have you to say, level ten, and once you have done all (4?) in the designated starter PVE areas, it then unlocks the multiplayer mode.
And you can play as any toon you wish after that, but when you go to take a planet, it connects to the server, properly divides the teams up, and then if needed, offers you a toon change, to make the teams fair.
We could have one of each character, and always enjoy levelling them all across the board, while the game divvies it up fairly, and puts the teams relative to loot and level and so forth.
It sounds kinda complex, but thats cos I'm making a pigs ear out of explaining my ramblings, basically like the BGs in WoW, but instead of having loads of different level ranges and loot tiers, one that is automatically updated and you can be forced to switch characters.
I think it would be fun, and addictive, because everyone likes levelling, and it would be cool to have a good roster of characters, instead of like one super powered bloke and loads you never play with.
Actually, they don't. This is why "power level" services and bots exist. It's also why few games since WoW have attempted to be Everquest, no one wants to grind for a month to gain a level.
Especially in a PvP game, no one wants to be the scrub at the bottom who has no function or purpose but to be a bullet-sponge.
No modern MMO (and, believe me, I play a lot of them) have tried to be Everquest. WoW didn't even try to be Everquest, it was Everquest Lite.
The exceptions are a very small handful of Korean MMOs, notably Lineage and Lineage 2, being that they kept the grindyness of EQ and threw away the Monty Haul reward system of WoW.
People forget just how hard it was to gain levels in Everquest prior to Planes of Power.
WoW succeeded as it did because it came to market amidst a perfect storm of Blizzard popularity, growing popularity/cultural awareness of MMOs, and first-generation burn-out on the investment of time that an MMO like EQ or DAOC required. No MMO before or since has been able to beat WoW. Most notably, WoW has failed to beat WoW and is currently hemorrhaging subscribers to the tune of millions per month.
mattyrm wrote: Ok, I was pondering this today while I was out walking, how to make the game decent.
Cos I agree with the majority, its really difficult to make a pvp game genuinely work across the board, so how about this..
I play Space Marine still, its good on cap and control especially because nobody has better gear than anybody else, and it divvys the teams up prior to the game starting, to make it fair.
So why not, when you start the game, you have to play for an hour or two with each faction to get your ork/SM/Eldar or what have you to say, level ten, and once you have done all (4?) in the designated starter PVE areas, it then unlocks the multiplayer mode.
And you can play as any toon you wish after that, but when you go to take a planet, it connects to the server, properly divides the teams up, and then if needed, offers you a toon change, to make the teams fair.
We could have one of each character, and always enjoy levelling them all across the board, while the game divvies it up fairly, and puts the teams relative to loot and level and so forth.
It sounds kinda complex, but thats cos I'm making a pigs ear out of explaining my ramblings, basically like the BGs in WoW, but instead of having loads of different level ranges and loot tiers, one that is automatically updated and you can be forced to switch characters.
I think it would be fun, and addictive, because everyone likes levelling, and it would be cool to have a good roster of characters, instead of like one super powered bloke and loads you never play with.
The only problem i have with this really is the fact that they way they have Freetoplay and paytoplay set up(free players are lowly orkboys becuse they are thinking there will be more free players than not and paying players get access to everything else) because i would be pissed off if i pay to play this game but every couple hours or whatever im forced to drop my character that im paying to have the privelage of playing to get stuck as an ork boy or chaos marine. Of course being a paying player i would get to level them up but I have zero interest in any faction other than Eldar(Since tau doesnt exist yet.
What i think they need to do is make bottom tier free to play for every race, imperium starts as Guard, and then you can choose to upgrade to SM or sisters or continue beefing up your lightly armored guard dude(for the few people that really dont want to be a SM or sisters) Chaos starts out as cultists, eldar start out as guardians(?) and of course orks start out as boys(Tau would probably start as kroot or maybe drones, then move up to FW and then eventually you move on to suits). I think that would give A LOT more people a lot more incentive to get in and get going before they start spending money......but then again......they need lots of orkies......
1) 40k has always been more shooty than assaulty and shooter MMOs always seem a bit lacking (planetside is about the only one that is even remotely good, but even that one gets lame)
2) They will never be able to impliment every race without doing some HUGE lore revamping. So many races that are buddies with one race are hateful enemies of their buddy's buddy, so making 2 factions would be next to impossible (And Dark Age of Camelot comes to mind when theres more than 2 factions...bad juju)
Third edition was more assaulty, fourth edition had mixed (Skimmerspams rocked the world, but if you could consolidate into assault you murdered shooters), fifth was okay for assault, 6th is where we get back to 2nd edition shooting.
Psienesis wrote: No modern MMO (and, believe me, I play a lot of them) have tried to be Everquest. WoW didn't even try to be Everquest, it was Everquest Lite.
The exceptions are a very small handful of Korean MMOs, notably Lineage and Lineage 2, being that they kept the grindyness of EQ and threw away the Monty Haul reward system of WoW.
People forget just how hard it was to gain levels in Everquest prior to Planes of Power.
WoW succeeded as it did because it came to market amidst a perfect storm of Blizzard popularity, growing popularity/cultural awareness of MMOs, and first-generation burn-out on the investment of time that an MMO like EQ or DAOC required. No MMO before or since has been able to beat WoW. Most notably, WoW has failed to beat WoW and is currently hemorrhaging subscribers to the tune of millions per month.
Blizzard dropped from 12mil Subscribers in WotLK to 8.6mil currently. It's still the most popular MMO by far, and has more subscribers than most of the other MMOs ever had put together.
It is hardly hemorrhaging millions of subscribers per month.
Actually, they don't. This is why "power level" services and bots exist. It's also why few games since WoW have attempted to be Everquest, no one wants to grind for a month to gain a level.
Especially in a PvP game, no one wants to be the scrub at the bottom who has no function or purpose but to be a bullet-sponge.
Yeah levelling is boring, FFXI had a nice resurgence when the developers finally listened to the players and made levelling faster and less painful to organize a levelling group. I still do not see how a game that is 90% pvp is going to have an economy that is interesting enough to bother with.
Eternal Crusade is going to be a niche MMO much like how Space Marine is a niche shooter. I'll probably play it as a secondary to WoW, to get a 40k fix when I don't feel like going to the local store.
Yuck, I really hope they keep this to a minimum. Emphasise the MMO over the RPG aspect.
Space Marine multiplayer on a Planetside 2 scale, with a few RPG aspects thrown in would be my preference.
Well, planetside 2 if the only free faction was incredibly gimped and five times weaker than the weakest member of the other factions, that way the paying players had someone to endlessly and effortlessly slaughter in some kind of lame, childish power trip.
Sounds awful to me. If you don't pay your purpose is to run around to be killed by those who do pay. The worst part of it is, the faction that exists for f2p to die as is orks. So, even if I do pay, my favorite faction is still the punching bag faction. So if I pay them, I can't even play the faction I want without having to be stomped on by those who play the "preferred" faction. Gross. Count me out. I'll watch a few let's plays and see how it works, but if it's like they're saying it is, I will not be involved.
loota boy wrote: Sounds awful to me. If you don't pay your purpose is to run around to be killed by those who do pay. The worst part of it is, the faction that exists for f2p to die as is orks. So, even if I do pay, my favorite faction is still the punching bag faction. So if I pay them, I can't even play the faction I want without having to be stomped on by those who play the "preferred" faction. Gross. Count me out. I'll watch a few let's plays and see how it works, but if it's like they're saying it is, I will not be involved.
I gathered from the interview I read that there are payed Ork class lines that aren't horribly nerfed; not sure if I'm misreading it or not, but I'd guess if you like the Orks and are willing to pay you aren't going to be punished for liking the Orks.
I have been waiting forever for a 40K MMO, it was too bad that THQ screwed the pooch with "Dark Millennium" with their poor business decisions. I'm REALLY hoping this title will vindicate the 40K franchise. The sad part is the LONG wait as right now the scheduled release date is late 2015.
At any rate....I personally CAN'T WAIT.....FOR THE EMPEROR!!!
Well you might waiting a-long, long time. Until it's released I wouldn't hold your Breath.
9 Phases....1st Phase announce Intention to release Game. So in the Grand Scheme of things they've done nothing. Games like this hoover up vast resources to get them to completion....Look at the game "Space Marine" compared with what they Promised and the video demos....
(Also why is the Space Marine Commander saying "WILT" "We go where we WILT" it makes no bloody Sense? )
wilt1 [wilt] Show IPA
verb (used without object)
1.
to become limp and drooping, as a fading flower; wither.
2.
to lose strength, vigor, assurance, etc.: to wilt after a day's hard work.
verb (used with object)
3.
to cause to wilt.
noun Also, wilt disease (for defs 5b, 6).
4.
the act of wilting, or the state of being wilted: a sudden wilt of interest in the discussion.
5.
Plant Pathology .
a.
the drying out, drooping, and withering of the leaves of a plant due to inadequate water supply, excessive transpiration, or vascular disease.
b.
a disease so characterized, as fusarium wilt.
6.
a virus disease of various caterpillars, characterized by the liquefaction of body tissues.
Origin:
1685–95; dialectal variant of wilk to wither, itself variant of welk, Middle English welken, probably < Middle Dutch welken; compare German welk withered
Wolfnid420 wrote: Just like i bet all marines start as scouts n eldar as guardians, idk bout chaos though.....
Nope.
Space Marines are stated to be five times stronger than Orks.
Honestly I wouldn't take any statements for a pre-alpha as final.
And yet, they're going in to making the game with an attitude of "feth balance and feth non-marines". This WILL have an impact on their game development.
Wolfnid420 wrote: Just like i bet all marines start as scouts n eldar as guardians, idk bout chaos though.....
Nope.
Space Marines are stated to be five times stronger than Orks.
Honestly I wouldn't take any statements for a pre-alpha as final.
And yet, they're going in to making the game with an attitude of "feth balance and feth non-marines". This WILL have an impact on their game development.
It's quite likely that they're joking and/or trolling.
And until then, we judge the game based off of the information we do have, rather than overly hopeful wishlisting.
Well what we do know paints a rather bleak picture. But given that GW was wise enough to hand WHFB to the guys who make total war I'm very cautiously optimistic.
BryllCream wrote: I look forward to playing as an ork and running around caverns slaughtering weak tyranids
And then getting curb-stomped by a ten year old playing a Space Marine who happens to be five times stronger than you because he paid to win.
Or just avoid PvP areas? I'm going to assume that poeple don't just aimlesslessly wander around shooting each other, there will be some sort of "front line".
Honestly I wouldn't take any statements for a pre-alpha as final.
And yet, they're going in to making the game with an attitude of "feth balance and feth non-marines". This WILL have an impact on their game development.
3/4 of the playable races are NOT marines, so you're talking out of your arse. If they wanted to make it all about marines then it would simply be Xeno Slayer - the MMORPG.
No MMORPGs are balanced at release, these guys are just being honest with us. Would you prefer that they casually lied?
You have your math wrong. There are only two non-Marine factions out of four. That's 1/2, not 3/4ths. Of that, we know nothing about how Eldar will be implemented, and we know Orks will be gimped, existing only as cannon fodder five times weaker than Space Marines, with free-to-play players restricted to only the lowest rungs of the Ork progression ladder.
Or are you going to try to act like Chaos Space Marines are not actually, you know, Space Marines?
wilt (v.)
1690s, probably an alteration of welk "to wilt," probably from Middle Dutch or Middle Low German welken "to wither," cognate with Old High German irwelhen "become soft." Related: Wilted; wilting.
fade (v.)
early 14c., "lose brightness, grow pale," from Old French fader "become weak, wilt, wither," from adj. fade "pale, weak, insipid" (12c.), probably from Vulgar Latin *fatidus, some sort of blending of Latin fatuus "silly, tasteless" + vapidus "flat, flavorless." Related: Faded; fading. As a noun, from c.1300.
hazel (n.)
Old English hæsl, hæsel, from Proto-Germanic *hasalaz (cf. Old Norse hasl, Middle Dutch hasel, German hasel), from PIE *koselo- "hazel" (cf. Latin corulus, Old Irish coll "hazel"). Shakespeare ("Romeo and Juliet," 1592) was first to use it (in print) in the sense of "reddish-brown color of eyes" (in reference to the color of ripe hazel-nuts), when Mercutio accuses Benvolio of being testy with:
Thou wilt quarrell with a man for cracking Nuts, hauing no reason, but because thou hast hasell eyes.
I find 40k bloody stupid when they pick and choose the langauge, imperial gothic or whatever it is they say it is. So they try to make it sound gothic by adding works from the Middle ages, with modern Grammar and nouns and verbs, not to mention Latin.
Plus it's in the future, so why would they talk like they demented LARP 'ers from the early 21st Century. Load of crap.
You have your math wrong. There are only two non-Marine factions out of four. That's 1/2, not 3/4ths. Of that, we know nothing about how Eldar will be implemented, and we know Orks will be gimped, existing only as cannon fodder five times weaker than Space Marines, with free-to-play players restricted to only the lowest rungs of the Ork progression ladder.
Or are you going to try to act like Chaos Space Marines are not actually, you know, Space Marines?
The game is at least 2 and half years out, there is no such thing as confirmed at this point. Mind you I'm not saying anyone should be excited for it, I'm saying that everyone should be neutral because in reality we know nothing about the game.
Be cool if they did end up doing Nids or Guard and added in a "horde" mechanic to the game centered around those races. For instance a Nid player could be a Brood Lord who has a main skill that lets it summon weaker nids kind of like a creature handler class with branching skills that could either increase its cc effectiveness or could support its "pets" via synapse buffs or even just increase its psychic ability for ranged attacks etc.
Personally if you can play as a Rat Ogre in WAR they can figure out how to do Nids and Guard in this
The very idea of picking one race and making them the only one available for F2Ps and intentionally gimping them is going to make them so unpopular that even if they change everything else about the game and keep that aspect, it will stall out in under a year.
It will stall out in a year anyway. That is what MMOs do in the modern era, because there's SO DAMN MANY OF THEM that they've fragmented their market.
The business plan of an MMO releasing in the last 2 or 3 years (with some noted exceptions) is to get an initial glut of people interested, draw them in during beta, get a couple million to buy the discs, subscribe to the game for 6 months to a year, and float on that until, at the 14 to 18 month mark, they move to a Free-To-Play model with a Cash Shop to buy pets, costumes, xp/loot boosters and other stuff.
The Cash Shop often makes the company more money than the subs did. Many companies are now offering multi-tier systems, where people who continue to pay a monthly sub get extra bonuses and items over those who are F2P and use just the cash shop. My EQ2 subscription, for example, gives me 5 free packs a month to their digital CCG, 500 Sony Cash bucks for their cash shop, and unrestricted access to content and gear/skill qualities. My Tera subscription gives me free daily buffs, a mount, and travel perks every month. A few other games I play I don't pay for, but I might spend $10 a week or so (varies by game) in the Cash Shop for various items. I just recently got back into Rift, and the way they do player housing in that game already has me making plans for spending... rather a fair bit of dosh on digital houses and furnishings for them.
Maybe they can do a system like ME3, where you can grind missions to get money for characters and things, and you can build it up over time, or you can just buy the stuff with money?
They could, but I don't see them doing that. It's much easier to just put a price-tag on the things you want people to buy, and make them unavailable any other way (except the occasional give-away event or whatever that gives out, like, 5 of them to a playerbase of hundreds of thousands).
Orblivion wrote: I'm saying that everyone should be neutral because in reality we know nothing about the game.
When everything that the developers say about the game says that they're a bunch of bloody idiots, I'd say we know quite a bit for this stage in the game.
BryllCream wrote: I look forward to playing as an ork and running around caverns slaughtering weak tyranids
And then getting curb-stomped by a ten year old playing a Space Marine who happens to be five times stronger than you because he paid to win.
Then... pay?
I mean, the subscription fees for most of these games on a monthly basis are typically fairly low. Most people blow more money on fast food in a week than they do on subscription based games for a month, and while being a sedentary lump of crap playing video games may be just as bad for your health, at least it lasts much longer.
The question will be whether or not the content is worthwhile.
mattyrm wrote: Are you concerned because it seems to be almost entirely PVP orientated?
I'm concerned that it's going to be a badly implementedpvp oriented game.
I feel like, based on your other posts, you wouldn't feel this way if you could play as a sister of battle...which, t be fair, I think would be a good inclusion into the game...I just think a lot of your hatred for this game stems from that root cause.
I'd also be happy with Imperial Guard being in, but no, I dislike the "Orks are gimped so that Space Marines have something to slaughter" mechanic well enough by itself, especially combined with the "feth balance we dont' care about that" attitude that they have displayed (and indeed outright stated).
Melissia wrote: I'd also be happy with Imperial Guard being in, but no, I dislike the "Orks are gimped so that Space Marines have something to slaughter" mechanic well enough by itself, especially combined with the "feth balance we dont' care about that" attitude that they have displayed (and indeed outright stated).
Give it time. Things change, balance and design decisions change. This is why devs, especially mmo devs, rarely talk details until very late into the development cycle. Because stuff that is bound to change, does, and people are still left with their old information and are turned off by the game.. I think the developer's comment stems from inexperience with big name releases, more than anything else.
And honestly, what he's saying stays true to the 40k lore...I respect that they want to do that first and foremost. It remains to be seen how they can balance around the fluff of a single space marine being worth dozens of guardsmen in terms of fighting ability...and literally thousands in terms of resource investment.
Or just avoid PvP areas? I'm going to assume that poeple don't just aimlesslessly wander around shooting each other, there will be some sort of "front line".
The game is explicitly focused towards PVP, lol.
If you're going to avoid the PvP areas, might as well just not play it.
Melissia wrote: I'd also be happy with Imperial Guard being in, but no, I dislike the "Orks are gimped so that Space Marines have something to slaughter" mechanic well enough by itself, especially combined with the "feth balance we dont' care about that" attitude that they have displayed (and indeed outright stated).
Can you post a quote of the outright stated "we don't care about balance" bit? Not doubting your word, I just want to see it for myself.
Orblivion wrote: I'm saying that everyone should be neutral because in reality we know nothing about the game.
When everything that the developers say about the game says that they're a bunch of bloody idiots, I'd say we know quite a bit for this stage in the game.
Everything they have said about the game indicates they need to hire some PR people to do their talking, and very little else.
As to making the Orks the free to play race, that makes sense primarily to help the Orks - the one thing every MMO has taught is us that the "ugly" races have a small core of hardcore fans that get kicked around nonstop by everyone else because so few folks want to play them. Allowing the core players to have access to powerful builds (Nobs, etc.), while also giving them access to at least SOME numbers through weaker free players backing them up is one of the only ways to balance an Ork faction. The other options being either A. Make hordes of NPC Orks to back up the small handful of players who will almost never have anyone to RP with or B. make Orks physically attractive, creating fluff rage that deafens the entire internet.
I just hope they manage to keep the ranking system semi-intelligent. The one thing I didn't like about Star Trek Online was that you had a few thousands Vice Admirals running around but only a small handful of captains or lieutenants. Not everyone can be a Warboss ya know hahaha. Maybe they make those rankings a guild/clan system, I don't know.
I am interested in seeing how they make the weaker races attractive to players. Of course, most 40k players will likely play the race they play on the table top, but the few that found the game and don't play 40k will have to make a choice. Space Marine's are the only "race" that really is strong enough to have lone wolf characters. I can't see a single Guardsman going out and doing MMO things, but I can see a single Space Marine being able to manage it. So I wonder how they are going to attract people to play the obviously weaker looking Guardsman (short of making everyone Marbo. Which...might end up the case)
They have stated that they are making Space Marines five times stronger than Orks and "balancing" that out by telling F2P players that they can only play Orks unless they pay money to be able to play the other factions (and even within Orks, they can never advance past Ork Boy) and making the F2P players grunts to be slaughtered by everyone else.
After reading a bit, I think I'll pass. The whole "you have to pay to be anything else other than an ork" really bugs me, especially since it appears that SM will be drastically more powerful. The fact that it's an MMO doesn't help matters.
Also, it doesn't take 5 orks to beat an SM. It takes 2. It takes 5 to make sure those 2 get to him
Melissia wrote: They have stated that they are making Space Marines five times stronger than Orks and "balancing" that out by telling F2P players that they can only play Orks unless they pay money to be able to play the other factions (and even within Orks, they can never advance past Ork Boy) and making the F2P players grunts to be slaughtered by everyone else.
washout77 wrote: I can't see a single Guardsman going out and doing MMO things, but I can see a single Space Marine being able to manage it. So I wonder how they are going to attract people to play the obviously weaker looking Guardsman (short of making everyone Marbo. Which...might end up the case)
You could be a sargeant of a squad of X be it normal guardsmen, rough riders, an Ogryns as the bonehead, ratling, Stormtroopers or hell, an overseer from a psyker battle squad would work.
About the SM being 5x stronger than the Ork Boyz: I love it.
The Free-players don't want to play? Sure, you can do that. Now the SM players can have HOARDS of ork boyz running in their direction. This looks so much more "fluffy" and interesting than the "All classes and races will be balanced". The paying Ork players would probably be Nobz, "commanding" the lesser Boyz. And the Orks are the only "horde" faction announced so yeah, this looks perfect!
The Free-players don't want to play? Sure, you can do that. Now the SM players can have HOARDS of ork boyz running in their direction.
Or, more likely than not, five months in Space Marines outnumber Orks.
Let us hope not, but I think there'll be plenty of fresh meat to try the F2P games. I guess it will all depend how fun it actually is to be a Ork Boy. I have no idea how the PvP is, but if the Ork Boyz get an almost instant respawn instead of having that waiting time every other factions has, oh God-Emprah, no reason not to play like an Ork, rushing in and chopping like a madman
The Free-players don't want to play? Sure, you can do that. Now the SM players can have HOARDS of ork boyz running in their direction.
Or, more likely than not, five months in Space Marines outnumber Orks.
Let us hope not, but I think there'll be plenty of fresh meat to try the F2P games. I guess it will all depend how fun it actually is to be a Ork Boy. I have no idea how the PvP is, but if the Ork Boyz get an almost instant respawn instead of having that waiting time every other factions has, oh God-Emprah, no reason not to play like an Ork, rushing in and chopping like a madman
You're assuming people will stay when they realised that free-players are essentially playing to lose, it's more likely that people who are just hopping between free MMOs are just gonna hop onto the next MMO the moment they realised that the game is pay2win, people who stay are gonna be WH40k fanatics who'll likely pay whatever they can for anything WH40k, they'll probably also sacrifice their firstborn if GW asks for a blood sacrifice for the blood Kirby, but that's a discussion for another day. So I think what Melissia said is the likely reality, you'd just see a bunch of paid players with their Nobs and whatnot standing about. The dreamland where you could just beat up hordes and hordes of Ork Boyz with your power sword and thunder hammer exist here, someone also need to pick up their remains and make an assault marine game, the jump pack in that game is super fun!
People who play PvP games play to win. Often, they will pay to win, too, and not always in the ways the dev considered. I am all but certain that the current design philosophy will change between now and the time this game goes gold.
I think a lot of people are missing something even bigger then a 40k mmo
Creative assembly owns the rights to make 40k games. you know what that means right?
Total war: warhammer 40k edition...guys, just thing about it.....you can control LEGIONS of SM or guards, Ork, ect ect.
but the MMO is cool as well
Not sure how this is relevant, considering how CA is not making the MMO.
They do not own the rights to Wh40k either, iirc.
THQ does though don't they? what i would love it a Supreme Commander-esque style game, because DoW was too small scale XD and you could add titans and stuff in it too, and still mass legions of troops.
I think a lot of people are missing something even bigger then a 40k mmo
Creative assembly owns the rights to make 40k games. you know what that means right?
Total war: warhammer 40k edition...guys, just thing about it.....you can control LEGIONS of SM or guards, Ork, ect ect.
but the MMO is cool as well
Not sure how this is relevant, considering how CA is not making the MMO.
They do not own the rights to Wh40k either, iirc.
THQ does though don't they? what i would love it a Supreme Commander-esque style game, because DoW was too small scale XD and you could add titans and stuff in it too, and still mass legions of troops.
THQ had the rights. They've been dead for about a year.
Way too much crying over a subscription fee.....cuz you know, no game out there does that! You basically get an advanced demo(playing as an ork boy for a while) then you decide you like the game as much as you like WoW and you start paying. Now you have access to everything!!
Will SM outnumber orks with paying players? Probably, but i bet if that happens then we see some ork NPCs runnin around with the nobz.
Not to mention i bet its not bad being an ork boy if they get any access to anything they can get in the codex, being "just an ork boy"
Actually, most MMOs, even triple-A titles, move to F2P after their first year.
The problem is that a vocal fanbase (of any IP) and investors look at WoW and think "how can we beat that?" and then expect a new property to beat WoW's subscription numbers, not realizing, or understanding, that WoW was an anomaly, in terms of its subscription numbers and popularity, that has not been repeated, neither before nor since, and will never be.
If investors had more realistic expectations of an MMO's performance (and if games media could throw the term "WoW Killer" into the plasma reactor) things might go more smoothly for studios and fans alike.
Did a little research and realized i really have been away from computer gaming for a while lol and i guess Guild Wars system would probably be the best, you CAN pay2win but you can earn all the same gak other ways aswell.
I do know however, that i really like the Ideas of massive battles and the ranking system. Where you're gettung missions and objectives on a planetaryish scale from people on a forever changing battlefield. And if they can pull it off the way I happen to imagine it then i would gladly pay a subscription fee similar to WoW.
What they CANT(shouldnt) do is make it so that you can ONLY get missions or accomplish things by talking to people, they also cant restrict your gear and leveling using the ranking, you should still get stronger and better and be able to buy gak back at home base regardless of whether you're lone wolfing it or not.
Also the idea of heroes in the battle is cool! Give one guy a couple of special pieces of 1 time use(or one battle use maybe) equipment that could totally turn the tide of battle?! Epically awesome!!
The idea of the Public Quest is viable, but is currently only present in a couple of triple-A titles. I'm not sure, at this point, if this studio has what it takes to release a game of that magnitude or scope.
Right now, we have no real indication as to what content will be like, or billing models, prices for unlocks, etc. It's all speculation and dev-hype.
I think a lot of people are missing something even bigger then a 40k mmo
Creative assembly owns the rights to make 40k games. you know what that means right?
Total war: warhammer 40k edition...guys, just thing about it.....you can control LEGIONS of SM or guards, Ork, ect ect.
but the MMO is cool as well
Not sure how this is relevant, considering how CA is not making the MMO.
They do not own the rights to Wh40k either, iirc.
THQ does though don't they? what i would love it a Supreme Commander-esque style game, because DoW was too small scale XD and you could add titans and stuff in it too, and still mass legions of troops.
Supreme Commander 40k would get approximately all my money. Make it happen!
Furyou Miko wrote: THQ went under last year. Sega bought 40k and CA bought Fantasy from them during the administration period.
Sega bought Relic, they did not buy the 40k license. Also Sega owns Creative Assembly, so they do have a Fantasy License however I don't know if it is exclusive or not. As of the announcement of this MMO, there are now 3 separate developers that have a 40k license that we know of.
Wolfnid420 wrote: Way too much crying over a subscription fee.....cuz you know, no game out there does that! You basically get an advanced demo(playing as an ork boy for a while) then you decide you like the game as much as you like WoW and you start paying. Now you have access to everything!!
Will SM outnumber orks with paying players? Probably, but i bet if that happens then we see some ork NPCs runnin around with the nobz.
Not to mention i bet its not bad being an ork boy if they get any access to anything they can get in the codex, being "just an ork boy"
If it happens the way it's said to, I was thinking about an instance system. Like, each PvP zone has instances or matches (depending on if they want it free roam PvP or not) that only allow so many of certain races. That way, it forcibly limits the amount of SM's that can be in the match at one time. Of course, this would require a ton of different instances as there will be a multitude of paying SM's. Will it work? Probably not, but it's better than what they have said so far (which is really not a whole lot. Most of this is player speculation).
Of course, they could always just solve all these problems by making all races playable for F2P but maybe limit certain things that don't make a huge impact. STO does that, F2P gets everything that paying members get, but paying members get some cosmetic things and access to a pay only area that is more of a social hub than anything else.
One thing that is really annoying about this thread is that people are claiming that a subscription fee based system is the same as pay to win. That is a ridiculous conflation and just wrong.
In FFXI you could play free up to level 20 at one point and NO ONE ever confused that with pay to win.
Seriously, some people need to get their facts straight. There has not been anything mentioned you can pay cash for that gives you an in game advantage. The only thing mentioned specifically was an emote.
Pay to win would be something like buying an add on that made your character better at PvP or made your gear stronger, more accurate etc. Now, if the latter type of gear does become available through real money trade, then yeah the game would be completely compromised and pointless. However, the same could be said for any game.
They are going off the rumor that Paying unlocks other races that aren't Orks (and only Ork Boyz at that). THAT is paying to win, mostly because the other rumor is that Space Marines are blatantly going to be 5x stronger than an Ork so you have to pay or you will end up being crushed by the Space Marine players.
washout77 wrote: They are going off the rumor that Paying unlocks other races that aren't Orks (and only Ork Boyz at that). THAT is paying to win, mostly because the other rumor is that Space Marines are blatantly going to be 5x stronger than an Ork so you have to pay or you will end up being crushed by the Space Marine players.
But of course, most of this is speculation...
I dont agree that is paying to win. If you want to play the game you pay. If you want to try it out for free you are limited to being a low level Ork. That is not the same as paying to win. Actually none of that is speculation, it is what the developer announced in an interview.
If a Space Marine is 5x stronger than an Ork, but there are 7x as many Ork players, doesn't that mean paying to be a Space Marine doesn't guarantee you winning?
The whole marine 5x stronger than an ork is overblown. It cannot even be interpreted since both marines, orks and all the other races will be gaining levels. In an interview the developer explained why this decision was made, if you accept some of the assumptions he made his reasoning was actually sound. If you think he was off base on his assumptions then his conclusion was of course not sound.
It also doesnt mean anything because apparently all kinds of alliances can be formed in the game which means that you may have orks allied with marines.
Mostly it is just people bitching, especially people that prefer a free to play model. In any event they have not started significant play testing with an open beta so who knows what the power level of an ork and a marine will end up being.
There are differences between pay to win, and pay for fun, I'm absolutely fine with the latter. Former is when you find yourself unable to advance unless you pay up. Latter is when you find yourself having a lot of fun and won't mind paying more. Former is bad because they're literally going up to your face and asking for money, I admit this is what business is about, but a salesperson IRL would have to put up a fake smile and fake friendliness to sell you his craps, why shouldn't the game maker be doing the same? They're still trying to sell us stuffs. Example of pay2win: Real Racing 3. Example of pay4fun: Nimble quest, Puzzle and Dragons.
I agree it is a bit early to say which model they'll take, but I honestly wouldn't place that much trust in a studio with such an unimpressive portfolio.
JWhex wrote: One thing that is really annoying about this thread is that people are claiming that a subscription fee based system is the same as pay to win. That is a ridiculous conflation and just wrong.
In FFXI you could play free up to level 20 at one point and NO ONE ever confused that with pay to win.
Seriously, some people need to get their facts straight. There has not been anything mentioned you can pay cash for that gives you an in game advantage. The only thing mentioned specifically was an emote.
Pay to win would be something like buying an add on that made your character better at PvP or made your gear stronger, more accurate etc. Now, if the latter type of gear does become available through real money trade, then yeah the game would be completely compromised and pointless. However, the same could be said for any game.
Free to Play = Ork Boy
Space Marine = 5 Ork Boys
Space Marine = Subscription-only character.
... that's why it's "pay 2 win". The Space Marine "class" is stated by the Devs to be 5 times as powerful as the Ork Boy. If you're not paying the sub, you only get to play the Ork Boy, and not the Space Marine.
It may be. It may also be that you only get some kind of basic grunt at the F2P level, and the subscription unlocks the "hero" classes, like Space Marines or Banshees or Nobs or Flashgitz or whatever.
It may be. It may also be that you only get some kind of basic grunt at the F2P level, and the subscription unlocks the "hero" classes, like Space Marines or Banshees or Nobs or Flashgitz or whatever.
You would have known this to be true if you had read the interview instead of just parroting the , dur marine = 5 orks.
So they released a newsletter to subscribers today and shed some additional light.
From the Newsletter:
"GREETINGS, FELLOW CRUSADERS!
Welcome to the first edition of the Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade newsletter. I’m David Ghozland, Creative Director on the project.
First of all, I wanted to say that myself and the team here at Behaviour Interactive can’t thank you enough for your support. We knew there would be a big response to a new 40k MMO, but the passion and enthusiasm we’ve seen from the community has gone beyond our expectations.
We consider this to be YOUR game – the online 40k world that the fans have always wanted. To that end, we’ll be setting up a space where you can communicate with the devs and share your thoughts. Expect some news on this front very soon!
In the months to come, this newsletter will be a platform for expressing our specific intentions on this project and communicating the thought processes behind its development. For the inaugural edition, however, I’d like to say a bit more about the game itself.
A World At War
One of the first misconceptions we saw about the game based on the announcement was that because of the game’s genre, people thought that we were making a "traditional" MMORPG. If you looked out our "required playing" list for new team members*, you'd see that we're planning on making something quite different indeed. We believe that the MMORPG genre is one with vast possibilities – just look at EvE Online or Firefall to see how far it can stretch.
In Eternal Crusade, we’re presenting a war on a planetary scale, but what you want to do in the game world is really up to you - there's no traditional quest or leveling structure in the experience. When you drop down to the planet with your friends, you’ll have a great overview of the ongoing conflict due to both traditional UI elements and community channels. If you want to head to the front lines and fight where you’re needed most, you can drive over there and do so. Along the way you might meet players from the enemy faction skulking about, or maybe you’ll spot a tantalizing entrance to the world beneath the surface or a Tyranid infestation bursting out near one of your strongholds.
Or perhaps one of your squad-mates will get an idea to hit the enemy behind their lines at a particularly valuable strategic position. It’ll take some skill to get there unnoticed and you might be guaranteed to have the enemy’s attention once you’ve done the damage, but the game's not going to stop you!
Part of what makes this possible is that MMO technology has come far enough to allow for true skill & precision-based gameplay and we’ve made a deliberate choice to make progression as horizontal as possible. A small amount of power gain is inevitable, but in a PvP-focused game it’s crucial that the vast majority of progression is about filling out your tactical possibilities and increasing specialization. Tabletop 40k has been a big inspiration in this regard, as you’ll see when we talk more about creating your character builds.
The other part is that we’re not creating a "content-heavy" world, but rather one driven by gameplay systems. There are unique spots to find, environmental lore bits and an ongoing narrative, but community efforts and Tyranid invasions drive the battle for the surface while the shapes and challenges of the underworld are generated procedurally. Our aim is to make an online world that never stops being able to surprise its players.
If this sounds good to you, stick around! We’ll keep talking about the details of the game design and other production updates right here, so if you know anyone else who might be interested in these topics, you can encourage them to register on the site.
Until next time, may the Emperor protect!
Demigod wrote: So they released a newsletter to subscribers today and shed some additional light.
From the Newsletter:
"GREETINGS, FELLOW CRUSADERS!
Welcome to the first edition of the Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade newsletter. I’m David Ghozland, Creative Director on the project.
First of all, I wanted to say that myself and the team here at Behaviour Interactive can’t thank you enough for your support. We knew there would be a big response to a new 40k MMO, but the passion and enthusiasm we’ve seen from the community has gone beyond our expectations.
We consider this to be YOUR game – the online 40k world that the fans have always wanted. To that end, we’ll be setting up a space where you can communicate with the devs and share your thoughts. Expect some news on this front very soon!
In the months to come, this newsletter will be a platform for expressing our specific intentions on this project and communicating the thought processes behind its development. For the inaugural edition, however, I’d like to say a bit more about the game itself.
A World At War
One of the first misconceptions we saw about the game based on the announcement was that because of the game’s genre, people thought that we were making a "traditional" MMORPG. If you looked out our "required playing" list for new team members*, you'd see that we're planning on making something quite different indeed. We believe that the MMORPG genre is one with vast possibilities – just look at EvE Online or Firefall to see how far it can stretch.
In Eternal Crusade, we’re presenting a war on a planetary scale, but what you want to do in the game world is really up to you - there's no traditional quest or leveling structure in the experience. When you drop down to the planet with your friends, you’ll have a great overview of the ongoing conflict due to both traditional UI elements and community channels. If you want to head to the front lines and fight where you’re needed most, you can drive over there and do so. Along the way you might meet players from the enemy faction skulking about, or maybe you’ll spot a tantalizing entrance to the world beneath the surface or a Tyranid infestation bursting out near one of your strongholds.
Or perhaps one of your squad-mates will get an idea to hit the enemy behind their lines at a particularly valuable strategic position. It’ll take some skill to get there unnoticed and you might be guaranteed to have the enemy’s attention once you’ve done the damage, but the game's not going to stop you!
Part of what makes this possible is that MMO technology has come far enough to allow for true skill & precision-based gameplay and we’ve made a deliberate choice to make progression as horizontal as possible. A small amount of power gain is inevitable, but in a PvP-focused game it’s crucial that the vast majority of progression is about filling out your tactical possibilities and increasing specialization. Tabletop 40k has been a big inspiration in this regard, as you’ll see when we talk more about creating your character builds.
The other part is that we’re not creating a "content-heavy" world, but rather one driven by gameplay systems. There are unique spots to find, environmental lore bits and an ongoing narrative, but community efforts and Tyranid invasions drive the battle for the surface while the shapes and challenges of the underworld are generated procedurally. Our aim is to make an online world that never stops being able to surprise its players.
If this sounds good to you, stick around! We’ll keep talking about the details of the game design and other production updates right here, so if you know anyone else who might be interested in these topics, you can encourage them to register on the site.
Until next time, may the Emperor protect!
David Ghozland
Creative Director"
Sounds good. Any news on the pay model and what classes are available to f2p characters?
At this point, to me... unless it is quoted straight from official channels, it is all a guessing game. There isn't a ton of specific information available yet. Which makes sense since release is so far off.
jesus, so many whiney people in here expecting to get everything for free. Get over yourselves.
And i dont want to name names, but melissa, stop posting. The only thing youve said is negative. You know what, we get it. You dont like it and you dont want to play it. Stop telling us over and over that we're wrong for wanting to play something.
To quote from a Q&A i read from them, which ill post at the end of this
Exactly. My idea, and what I’m going to implement is very true to the lore. The game is free to play, but we have four races controlled by the player, while one is controlled by us. Only one of the playable races will be free to play, while the other three will be buy to play like Guild Wars 2.
Actually, all four playable races are buy to play, but the Orks have an option which is free to play: the Ork boyz. If you want to play our game and you don’t want to spend a single cent, you can still access the whole game and do whatever you want without restriction, but you can only be an Ork Boy. You can’t be an Ork Nob or above…Those are buy to play as well even if we’ll have very affordable pricing, definitely cheaper than Guild Wars 2.
That said, Ork Boyz are going to be free, and they will be able to progress horizontally with skills and everything, but vertically, if you want to become an Ork Nob, you’ll have to buy it. The reason for that is because in order to be responsible to give orders and objectives to other players, we want you to be a committed player. In order to become a leader in our game, you’ll need to pay.
Otherwise, if you’re ok with being a grunt and experience everything, then you can be an Ork Boy, and the reason for that is that you need at least three to five Ork Boyz in the Warhammer 40k universe to kill a Space Marine. If we made Ork Boyz as powerful as Space Marines, everyone would hate us, because it would fly in the face of the lore.
One of the strengths of Orks is numbers. You never talk about one Ork. You talk about hordes of Orks. Thousands of them. To represent that in our game we need our Ork Boyz to be way more numerous than the other races. Having them as free to play allows us to achieve that.
The other reason is because the difference in personality between committed players and free players is exactly the same difference between the culture of Space Marines and Orks.
G: I see, you expect many free players to be undisciplined like Orks.
M: Exactly! You expect them to be less disciplined. You expect them to be rude. You expect them to defy orders. You expect them to ignore objectives, and to insult you all the time, exactly like Orks would do. We’re taking something that is seen as bad, and we’re transforming it into something true to the IP.
On top of that, just imagine that you love Orks, and you bought the Ork Nob premium option, so now you’re an Ork general and you’re preparing to attack an objective. You’re going to have five times as many soldiers as the other races under your command, but once you give the order 30-40% of them might obey, while 60-70% will tell you “fu*k you!” and they’ll start running left and right and do whatever they want. And that’s exactly what true Orks would do.
and i agree with that, without a doubt. Free to play players are often the worst, and most disruptive. Just like an ork boy would be.
Just because in between a SM scout, an Eldar Guardian, an Ork boy and a Cultist, the last one is the worst one, so I figured champion would be more interesting.
And you could boss normal cultist around, kinda like a petmaster or something kind of class.
Hmm, as a pet-user I guess... the newsletter implied that any position of leadership would require paying, because of wanting to make sure people are serious (lol). Petmasters are normally P2P.
It may be. It may also be that you only get some kind of basic grunt at the F2P level, and the subscription unlocks the "hero" classes, like Space Marines or Banshees or Nobs or Flashgitz or whatever.
You would have known this to be true if you had read the interview instead of just parroting the , dur marine = 5 orks.
Um, no, it wasn't at all like I suggested it *may* go, as we are now told further here. It is *only* the Ork Boy you get at F2P, not a Guardsman, Chapter Serf, Cultist, or any other faction. Ork Boy. There's only the Ork faction for the F2P players... which is something of a brilliant idea to meet the "Green Tide" playstyle. I just don't think it's going to appeal to enough players to make it viable.
As for people wanting a free game? Not really. However, the subscription model of MMOs is all but dead in the industry. F2P with microtransactions has proven itself to be a more viable, sustainable, and profitable model for most titles.
Having only the Ork boy class be F2P is a terrible idea.
I don't really know who's making this game, but they need to realize... that they will never make an MMO more popular than World of Warcraft. Almost every game that's tried to charge like Wow has failed, including The Old Republic, which is the most expensive game ever made and had a AAA company like Bioware backing it.
40K is already a niche franchise- if they seriously try to make this game subscription based or require money just to play THE MOST POPULAR FACTION IN THE FRANCHISE (Space Marines), all they're going to do is turn off interested players.
The game industry is learning that if you want an MMO to succeed, the way to go is F2P with micro-transactions. Let people play the classes that they want to play for free, and make your money via P2P equipment, skins, clothing, exp boosts etc.
Planetside 2 has a great model following this format. You can play 80% of the game for free, but SOE is still making tons of cash.
Yay for the shoutout with EVE Online and "different" MMOs!
I never really liked free to play games to be honest. I just want to pay the company and play the game, without getting nickle and dimed for "extra special gear".
BlaxicanX wrote: Having only the Ork boy class be F2P is a terrible idea.
I don't really know who's making this game, but they need to realize... that they will never make an MMO more popular than World of Warcraft. Almost every game that's tried to charge like Wow has failed, including The Old Republic, which is the most expensive game ever made and had a AAA company like Bioware backing it.
40K is already a niche franchise- if they seriously try to make this game subscription based or require money just to play THE MOST POPULAR FACTION IN THE FRANCHISE (Space Marines), all they're going to do is turn off interested players.
The game industry is learning that if you want an MMO to succeed, the way to go is F2P with micro-transactions. Let people play the classes that they want to play for free, and make your money via P2P equipment, skins, clothing, exp boosts etc.
Planetside 2 has a great model following this format. You can play 80% of the game for free, but SOE is still making tons of cash.
I agree they might turn off players by making only the Orks free to play - financially it might not work.
But as within world, thematic game design, it is perfect. It is exactly, 100% correct. I thought so when I first saw it, and I think so even more after reading their explanation.
What it comes down to is what they want to achieve - if they have come to terms with the fact that they will never be as popular as WoW and are making a small scale niche game that will be designed to cater to the small demographic all non WoW MMO's end up with, they might be happy with the results. If they are looking to make a WoW killer, they are going the wrong direction - they need free to play Marines and such right off the bat.
But they are going to be disappointed if they want a WoW killer,whatever they try to do.
Well, certain of those non-WoW MMOs still end up with player populations in six digits, some even low 7 digits. We're not talking browser games with dozens, literally dozens! of players.
That said, being that this is a PvP game, this is how I see it going, if what we've been shown is true and remains so until it goes live:
Lots of people running around as Ork Boyz.
A small crew of a dedicated, multi-game PvP guild decide that they are going to win at 40K. They buy the Space Marine subscriptions, and they make a team of 4 players, one "tank", one "healer" and two "DPS" builds. They're linked in with TeamSpeak and all of that, so they don't waste time typing at one another.
United against the Green Tide, these four people are simply unbeatable. The Orks lack the organization to compete with these 4 players, because they're F2P players, mostly strangers to one another, and lack the resources that a multi-game, multi-national guild has at its disposal. Now, while this makes sense in-universe, these Orks that keep losing, no matter what they do, have real people behind the screens who are spending their time playing this game, and are getting nothing but killed in waves. So they stop playing, because that sucks.
Soon, all that's left are these 4 Space Marines and 2 Ork Nobs.
DarkSoldier wrote: I hope there will be an Orky wordfilter for the chat; change slurs to "git," "noob" to "grot," etc.
This is actually a really cool idea. You should head over to dakka's VG forum and suggest it to their Head of Studio.
Psienesis wrote:United against the Green Tide, these four people are simply unbeatable.
If there really is a "Green Tide", I really don't see the problem. Even using the 5:1 ratio, 20 Orks should have a good chance against your 4 Marines. Actually, their chances are even better than 5 versus 1, because at this engagement size there's a good chance that more than five greenskins will focus their fire on a single Astartes, thus taking them down faster. The Space Marines will probably have a much harder time picking targets as there's so many of 'em.
Really, the only issue I see is that even with Orks being F2P, most people would still gravitate towards Space Marines because, well .. they're Space Marines.
In fact, the biggest problem may be with the Eldar, who have neither SM popularity nor the F2P bonus of the Orks.
Alright, time to write my wishlist of all the things I want to see, instead of winging on free to play. kinda what I would personally want, although I may be biest towards marines. also, this would be if the person bought the game, so bluh.
One unified group: Would I be the only one to find it odd if there are 20 diffrent Eldar guys dressed as different craftworlds running about? or 20 different chapters? I think one group for each side would be best. Like the Marines could be Blood Ravens and Eldar all one united craftworld, while Chaos could all be one warband and the orks.... guess the orks can be a lot of bands together?
Class FoC "slots"
There could be about 3-4 different types of "slots", one for each FoC. A troop slot, A veteran slot, and maybe an HQ along side it.
Troops would of course be basic troops, Like Tactical marines, scouts, Ork Boyz, and Eldar Guardians and Dire avengers. They get the usual loadouts of basic weapons, and keep working until they reach a point where they either unlock or become-
Veterans These guys get a better selection of armor, Weapons and generally new things to play around with. From a marine standpoint the player can Train or use weapons to become Either a Vanguard or Sternguard vet, each with thier own special weapons that are slightly better or have a little more variety.
Like a Vanguard can take a power sword, Axe, or Mace, and a Jump pack to get around quickly. A sternguard has the special ammo that needs to be switched out for other via reload, or can take some plasma rifles and things for a bit less. Also, both clases get some visual upgrades to show they are veterans, and can customize a little more than the Troops. Maybe as they progress they get the choice to have Terminator armor, and become slower but tougher. They would probably need things to help get them around, like other players.
Eldar can become things like banshees, harlequins and Warp spiders too, so there is some more Variety to it. Chaos can take different gifts of chaos to make themselves better, and Orks can get bigger and stronger.
Eventually The veteran player can reach a point where they can't get any further in that Race/Class. Then, they have the opportunity to buy an upgrade that let's them play as an HQ.
HQ's can give a lot of buffs and help other players get better, like in the tabletop game. From a marine standpoint, a Chaplain players can buff Assault marines to be better at assaults (more chance to connect with weapon, being a bit stronger, things like that), Librarians might have psychic powers to help turn the tides of battle ( letting weapons be more accurate, debuffing other players, stuff like that) while worrying about thier own character's head exploding. Captains can make objectives and things for the team, and are generally better and stronger too. not strong enough to not die at all, but not a pushover either.
Other Races have thier own stuff, but I don't know them very well
Vehicles: any player can purchase (in game money/exp) some extra vehicles. A marine player may be able to buy bikes to drive at high speeds, or some flyers to engage in the sky. There could be Wave serpents, Rhinos, and Wartrukks to help cart other people around, and other heavier tanks to destroy stuff with.
Well, my interest just went right back down again. This from a recent interview;
Miguel Caron wrote:
As an example we won’t have the Sisters of Battle at launch. We love them, but the reason why they won’t be playable at launch is because it’s almost impossible to make the kind of power they have fit the lore and make it fun at the same time. They always end up being killed by their own team because their pure blood is useful to defeat demons. It’s very difficult to implement that kind of sacrifice in the gameplay and still make it fun to play as a character.
There are different ways in which we can adapt this, but for now, since the team wants to stay as close as possible to the IP, the races we have are those that we don’t need to modify too much from their rulebook originals.
Basically, Mr. Caron, whilst claiming to be a major fluff fanatic has decided to base his entire opinion of the Sisters off one piece of universally reviled fluff that doesn't even take up a whole paragraph... and decided that the only way to make playing a Sister 'fun' is to mutilate their fluff entirely. Yay.
DarkSoldier wrote: I hope there will be an Orky wordfilter for the chat; change slurs to "git," "noob" to "grot," etc.
This is actually a really cool idea. You should head over to dakka's VG forum and suggest it to their Head of Studio.
Psienesis wrote:United against the Green Tide, these four people are simply unbeatable.
If there really is a "Green Tide", I really don't see the problem. Even using the 5:1 ratio, 20 Orks should have a good chance against your 4 Marines. Actually, their chances are even better than 5 versus 1, because at this engagement size there's a good chance that more than five greenskins will focus their fire on a single Astartes, thus taking them down faster. The Space Marines will probably have a much harder time picking targets as there's so many of 'em.
Really, the only issue I see is that even with Orks being F2P, most people would still gravitate towards Space Marines because, well .. they're Space Marines.
In fact, the biggest problem may be with the Eldar, who have neither SM popularity nor the F2P bonus of the Orks.
...that's not how PvP works, though. The Orks "focusing fire" are either trying to out-DPS a healer's HPS (often next to impossible, even in a "balanced" PvP game) or are focusing-fire on the tank (bullet-sponge) while the 2 DPS characters scythe through them, or are trying to focus fire on the DPS, but (depending on specific game mechanics) can't, because the Tank keeps target-locking their focus onto himself. The Orks can't maintain fire on the SM long enough to make a difference, because, one, they've got communication issues in even getting people to shoot at the same guy (the SM don't, being "PvP Pros") and, also, having to compete with 2 guys who are better than 10 of the Orks put together (because they spend every waking moment in PvP games where casual players in an F2P game tend not to). When you have a force multiplier like that, 1 SM vs 5 Orks is balanced, so 1v1, the SM is just plowing through them... that means there's not 5 Orks standing in a matter of moments, unless there are, literally, hundreds of them to the SM's 5... but then you get into larger concentrations of these elite-status guilds, and now you have an entire SM Chapter of P2P players on the battlefield.
Miguel Caron wrote: As an example we won’t have the Sisters of Battle at launch. We love them, but the reason why they won’t be playable at launch is because it’s almost impossible to make the kind of power they have fit the lore and make it fun at the same time. They always end up being killed by their own team because their pure blood is useful to defeat demons. It’s very difficult to implement that kind of sacrifice in the gameplay and still make it fun to play as a character. There are different ways in which we can adapt this, but for now, since the team wants to stay as close as possible to the IP, the races we have are those that we don’t need to modify too much from their rulebook originals.
Basically, Mr. Caron, whilst claiming to be a major fluff fanatic has decided to base his entire opinion of the Sisters off one piece of universally reviled fluff that doesn't even take up a whole paragraph... and decided that the only way to make playing a Sister 'fun' is to mutilate their fluff entirely. Yay.
Now, now Miko, give the man a chance. They love the Sisters, you never know. Keep the interest and the moral up, you never know what may happen in the future! (trying to keep my hopes up... )
I'm far, far too excited with this MMO. Their idea of the Ork Boy is spot on, perfect, unbelievably cool and... I hope it doesn't sink because it's true, with only Ork Boy available many people may be turned off BEFORE they give it a chance and actually pay.
Nevertheless the possibility of having THE ENTIRE GAME AVAILABLE FOR FREE with the small detail of not being able to be anything but an Ork Boy is unreal!
But the new developer post said it will be like the Space marine Video game, so third person. What will stop some smart ork players to flank around the Tank and hit them from behind? target lock probably wont be a thing, so I guess you can shoot at guys freely.
C'mon, let's hear what people actually want in this frakking, unreleased game :/
Furyou Miko wrote:Well, my interest just went right back down again. This from a recent interview; [...]
You did saw his response to the e-mail I sent him following that interview, though, or weren't you following the thread over at dakka VG?
(on a sidenote, I must say I love your little reaction images - it's a fairly unique feature of your posts I keep noticing )
Psienesis wrote:...that's not how PvP works, though. [...]
You're still looking at it from a WoW-kinda perspective, whereas I'm expecting something more along the lines of Planetside, meaning a much smaller focus on class differences, and more chaos during battles. Of course, it's hard to tell what it will actually be in the end, but going just by what we got to hear so far ...
I have an answer for a lot of these things because I've played a *lot* of these games, PvE and PvP both, so I've seen pretty much all the iterations of the various engines that MMOs are produced in, and the ways players adapt to maximize their playstyle in them. I've yet to be surprised by anything that has come out in an MMO in a long, long time.
I've also been in more than a couple of these massive, multi-game guilds and I know how they function when they decide to make a presence in a given game. It's... kind of disgusting, actually, the time and money expended in becoming game-famous (like anyone in the real world cares that your guild got a server-first battleground win or was at the top of the server rankings for battlefield victories).
Given the description of tactical movement and battle-planning, it sounds a lot like Planetside, but the further "travel around, be sneaky, and hopefully get yourself into position" sounds a lot like Defiant. I'd be surprised if they altered much from that engine, tbh, since it's new and available, and hasn't yet been over-used. Action-MMOs are a relatively new thing, where twitch-style reflexes and a fast trigger are of more importance than proper hotbar setups, skill chains and auto-attack timing and a DPS parse (for e-peen purposes).
TheDraconicLord wrote: Now, now Miko, give the man a chance. They love the Sisters, you never know.
Prove it.
Because I have yet to see any proof. He bashes the faciton then backpedals and says "but wait, we love them!"
Bullgak. I don't believe him. Cheap, shameless, contentless cover-your-ass backpedaling does not equate to proof that they actually appreciate Sisters of Battle.
TheDraconicLord wrote: Now, now Miko, give the man a chance. They love the Sisters, you never know.
Prove it.
Because I have yet to see any proof. He bashes the faciton then backpedals and says "but wait, we love them!"
Bullgak. I don't believe him. Cheap, shameless, contentless cover-your-ass backpedaling does not equate to proof that they actually appreciate Sisters of Battle.
Considering the fact they mentioned Sisters at all in some form is showing some love, I mean when was the last time even GW gave sisters some notice?
ZebioLizard2 wrote: Considering the fact they mentioned Sisters at all in some form is showing some love, I mean when was the last time even GW gave sisters some notice?
Depends, does Black Library or White Dwarf count?
But that's a low standard to compare them to. Like saying "a person who kills seven people is morall supeior than someone who kills ten".
Psienesis wrote:...that's not how PvP works, though. [...]
You're still looking at it from a WoW-kinda perspective, whereas I'm expecting something more along the lines of Planetside, meaning a much smaller focus on class differences, and more chaos during battles. Of course, it's hard to tell what it will actually be in the end, but going just by what we got to hear so far ...
That actually would make it more like an FPS-MMO, which is more exciting at the outset, but basically boils down to a few guys/gals on a team holding a chokepoint against their foes, racking up huge kill-counts before inevitably falling to weight of fire (and lack of a healer). Seen this in a couple games on this model, where the fodder troops basically died in waves, each doing a few hits of damage on the guys, until finally exhausting their supply of HP.
Eventually, people get tired of being the literal definition of cannon fodder. The hope is that they will then convert to paying players and get to be a Nob or whatever other "boss" type there is (assuming that 99% of all paying players aren't going Space Marine... heh, I can't even type that with a straight face) in order to really "bring it" to a battle. Most of the time, though, they stop playing and go do something else.
I feel like I should correct a common misconception that keeps appearing in this thread; the line about "...five Orks to kill one Space Marine..." is being taken vastly out of context, given that the phrase immediately after "Space Marine" in the original interview was "...in the tabletop game", which is actually supported by the math. Whether it will take five Ork Boyz to kill one Space Marine in Eternal Crusade is actually not something we have any data about.
Psienesis wrote:The hope is that they will then convert to paying players and get to be a Nob or whatever other "boss" type there is (assuming that 99% of all paying players aren't going Space Marine... heh, I can't even type that with a straight face) in order to really "bring it" to a battle. Most of the time, though, they stop playing and go do something else.
I'd at least give it a try, and I think I would have fun. As long as you're still winning, it doesn't matter what your chances mano-a-mano would have been, right? In fact, I'd probably feel extra awesome after kicking a Marine's power-armoured butt, even when I only did a fraction of the damage responsible for it. Group effort ftw.
But that's why I'm saying it all hinges upon how many people will play Orks. It should neither be too few nor too many, and I'm curious to see in action how the numbers will work out in the end, and how well the developers are able to influence ongoing campaigns with their weather and Tyranids and other "control features".
AnomanderRake wrote:Whether it will take five Ork Boyz to kill one Space Marine in Eternal Crusade is actually not something we have any data about.
I would expect it depends heavily on how clever the players act. Ork Boyz have no armour and are thus less resilient (despite similar toughness = hitpoints?), but that doesn't mean their weapons don't hurt. In short, they may be easy to take down individually, but as a group their combined firepower could be devastating.
Dragonzord wrote: If we made Ork Boyz as powerful as Space Marines, everyone would hate us, because it would fly in the face of the lore.
They're not very intelligent if they cannot work out that Guardsman = Boy, Space Marine = Nob, and so need to depend on an unreliable boyz-marines ratio to make their game work. Doing that would make more sense fluff-wise, and would make the battle far more epic with the addition of Imperial Guardsmen.
That said, if this looks any good got no issue buying Nob class or higher. I just want to be able to stomp the F2P scrubs like everyone else.
AnomanderRake wrote: I feel like I should correct a common misconception that keeps appearing in this thread; the line about "...five Orks to kill one Space Marine..." is being taken vastly out of context
No it's not. That's what their basing their design decisions on.
Dakkamite wrote:They're not very intelligent if they cannot work out that Guardsman = Boy, Space Marine = Nob, and so need to depend on an unreliable boyz-marines ratio to make their game work.
But given that Nobz are available as well, they already have it worked out, no?
I'd rather criticise them for not also having added cannonfodder IG infantry as the Space Marines' version of F2P. But then again, that might tip the scales even further towards the Imperial side, as far as player ratios are concerned.
I also really hope they have Bike combat and the big customization thing could mean that certain guilds could put themself together like actual chapters and things.
Vehicles might show up, and might (if anyone can grab one) be a big force equalizer... but I'm not sure if this is going to be a Battlefront-type game or what.
Really, it's going to depend on the actual execution of the game. Being that there doesn't seem to be a lot of the standard quest/mission structure, I'm not sure how much class variance or customization (of skills/abilities) there's going to be.
Tiger9gamer wrote: I also really hope they have Bike combat and the big customization thing could mean that certain guilds could put themself together like actual chapters and things.
In just about every interview he talks about "you and your buddies, drive over there" i have no doubt in my mind that transports will be VERY prevalent. The tanks and vehicles people actually want to pilot? We'll see how they attempt to balance that mechanic.
I bet the resources we secure get spent by the head council for all the awesome goodies. Maybe they have a waiting list? So every time they spawn in a vehicle that matters it gets a different pilot? And then if you survive with it then you get to keep it until you get it destroyed? That would be cool.
Dark Angels represent the first Space Marine chapter, but the team told us, we’d be crazy to only have one chapter, so expect more in the future.
Behaviour Interactive has assured us that vehicles will be in the game and usable all over the battles. You deploy your squad from your Rhino into the fighting zones to start with.
Well, my interest just went right back down again. This from a recent 
