Demons, that is all.
My house had a demonic possession, never been the same since. *shudders*

No stories. Because ghosts and demons are imaginary.

FYI: Shutters are for windows, shudders are for when your imagination gets the best of you.

JWhex wrote:
No stories. Because ghosts and demons are imaginary.

FYI: Shutters are for windows, shudders are for when your imagination gets the best of you.

thanks

Yeeeeah, no I don't believe any stories. Is it within the realm of possibility, but no, no story of a 'demonic possession' has ever had a lick of credibility.

My mom once said that she heard a banging on the door and that when she went up to answer no one was there. This was late at night.

Ghosts stores are captivating regardless of legitimacy (I enjoyed Ghost Hunters)

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Ghosts stores are captivating regardless of legitimacy (I enjoyed Ghost Hunters)

I agree with the first part -- but Ghost Hunters seems silly to me. A bunch of grown men talking to imaginary friends in a room with the lights off. They should do an episode where they all pile in the bathroom and dare each other to say "Bloody Mary" three times into the mirror. So while ghost stories are fun, hearing people tell me they are true is like hearing someone tell me Star Wars is a true story. Needless to say, I have no ghost stories despite living in at least two supposedly haunted houses.

 Manchu wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Ghosts stores are captivating regardless of legitimacy (I enjoyed Ghost Hunters)

I agree with the first part -- but Ghost Hunters seems silly to me. A bunch of grown men talking to imaginary friends in a room with the lights off. They should do an episode where they all pile in the bathroom and dare each other to say "Bloody Mary" three times into the mirror. So while ghost stories are fun, hearing people tell me they are true is like hearing someone tell me Star Wars is a true story. Needless to say, I have no ghost stories despite living in at least two supposedly haunted houses.

It's silly if you watch it as a documentary. I always saw it as fiction... and just pretended that the ghosts were real. Scientifically speaking, TAPS are total quacks. They use silly monitoring devices, make up their own rules (why do ghosts use electromagnetic waves? Do we turn into energy after death? Are ghosts magic or just EM anomalies creating by the cessation of a life form's functions?) and most of their hypothesises (thesi?) are unquantifiable. It's psuedo science at best. In addition, most of their claims are just them saying "Oh, I feel cold!".

But, if you watch it as if they are in their own world some of their stuff is quite interesting. I remember an episode when they were in ireland and were searching for ghosts in some ruins. They saw stuff on a UV recording moving in the distance. Now, they could just be crew members, unknown trespassers or, more likely, animals. But if you get into the mindset that everything they say is true in their own world it's kind of like watching a pretentious Paranormal Ac... watching Paranormal Activity.

Haunted Houses are crap for experiences but often have really neat stories behind them. The only way to really get hauntings is to expect/want them. The mind has a way of playing into your fears.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
The only way to really get hauntings is to expect/want them. The mind has a way of playing into your fears.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I do like watching Ghost Hunters every once in a while but instead of watching it like a horror movie like you say (good joke about Paranormal Activity, btw) I watch it as a comedy.

 poppa G wrote:
My house had a demonic possession...

No. It didn't.

Haven't had any because ghosts don't exist.

I murdered a bunch of people and their ghosts keep haunting my house. It's really kind of annoying, lots of banging doors, dishes falling out of their cabinets and smashing in the middle of the night, weird noises all the time, etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If I kill some more people do you think the ghosts would cancel each other out, or would the hauntings just get worse?

The amount of people not believing in ghosts is surprising-the last ghost thread had many more believers. My old college was haunted. A friend and I felt the presence of a ghost, while another guy saw it. We weren't told he had seen it, he took us where he did, and both of us had abnormal reaction-I stepped out of the elevator and promptly fell over, never having a day of vertigo in my life. My other friend who wasn't afraid of knife-wielding muggers in the heart of Brooklyn got into the room and bolted for the door, petrified. Yeah, I know it sounds a little contrived and story-like, but it's legit. They're there. Assuming that they aren't and that other worlds, beings, and dimensions don't exist is human arrogance.

 Peregrine wrote:
I murdered a bunch of people and their ghosts keep haunting my house. It's really kind of annoying, lots of banging doors, dishes falling out of their cabinets and smashing in the middle of the night, weird noises all the time, etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If I kill some more people do you think the ghosts would cancel each other out, or would the hauntings just get worse?

Oh well, doesn't hurt to experiment does it?

If you close your eyes and speak my name into your pillow 3 times, then exactly 1 week later nothing will happen.



And then you'll become pregnant with my demon child.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
If you close your eyes and speak my name into your pillow 3 times, then exactly 1 week later nothing will happen.



And then you'll become pregnant with my demon child.

Challenge Accepted.

 Krellnus wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:
If you close your eyes and speak my name into your pillow 3 times, then exactly 1 week later nothing will happen.



And then you'll become pregnant with my demon child.

Challenge Accepted.

Excellent! I just need you to sign this document that states all requests for child support must be directed to Satan, for he is the true biological father of the demon spawn, and everything should be set.

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 Krellnus wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:
If you close your eyes and speak my name into your pillow 3 times, then exactly 1 week later nothing will happen.



And then you'll become pregnant with my demon child.

Challenge Accepted.

Excellent! I just need you to sign this document that states all requests for child support must be directed to Satan, for he is the true biological father of the demon spawn, and everything should be set.

Send it over and I shall sign straight away.

I have an ex-friend who used to claim his video recorder was haunted because would switch itself off in the middle of the night.

Nothing here.

I don't believe in ghosts, demons, unicrons or other happy friendly sparkly magic horses.

Never seen it, never 'felt' it.

I have relatives who believe - but there's a whole "you see what you expect to see" aspect that goes with it.

Given a 'picture' with elements missing, your brain will fill in the gaps with what it thinks is right - not necessarily what IS.

 chromedog wrote:
Nothing here.

I don't believe in ghosts, demons, unicrons or other happy friendly sparkly magic horses.

Never seen it, never 'felt' it.

I have relatives who believe - but there's a whole "you see what you expect to see" aspect that goes with it.

Given a 'picture' with elements missing, your brain will fill in the gaps with what it thinks is right - not necessarily what IS.

Exactly. And belief doesn't supersede reality.

When I was a kid, I read ghost stories. I had several "weird" moments. But nothing that can't be explained by anything other than overactive imagination.

Even recently, when home alone, I'll occasionally get a case of the creepy crawlies. Its always dark, and windows are open but I can't see out, and I'd decided to watch horror movies. But I don't attribute creepy feelings to ghosts. I shut the curtains and turn something light on TV, and magically, the creepiness... goes away.

I think a lot of "ghosts" and "hauntings" are people focusing on those creepy feelings then attributing any noise heard in a heightened state to the supernatural.

The problem with Ghosts Hunters*, aside from the pseudoscience of pretending equipment legitimizes what they think it does, is that they assume anything they CAN'T explain is supernatural. That is the same thing that believers do, and is the exact wrong way to determine what is and isn't really happening. I find it the height of arrogance for people to assume they have an explanation, magical and mystical, aka "supernatural", that counters everything known to be real, just based on their feelings.

*I used to love that show, when it was guys being stupid running around in the dark, freaking themselves out. It used to be hilarious. Then they started to take themselves too seriously...

Edit - corrections and addition

I spent a night in a grave yard....Afghanistan....grown men....with automatic weapons....NVG's....ability to call on "God" to drop some heavy ass ordinance and fire power...MK19's.....50 cals...SAW's....240's......good solid chunk of metal that was called a 9mm Beretta that can thrown well....frags....incendiaries...never ever again...never....never want to try that again


I could not even imagine writing up an after action report on terminating a "ghost" with extreme prejudice....

Then two months later the US and Brit contingent gets "Kudo" for coming up with an improve zombie defense at Spin Budok in RC South Afghanistan....

 poppa G wrote:
Demons, that is all.
My house had a demonic possession, never been the same since. *shudders*

I saw my old dog walking in the house. Once the lights were on. I was on the phone. He walked in, wagged his tail, woofed, and walked back out. The second time was at night. Getting ready for bed, went into the bedroom and he was laying there, sleeping and snoring like he always did. He just sort of faded out. Both times didn't feel creepy at all, but warm and reassuring that he was ok.

Now in our old house with the Wife there were lots of windows and I always thought we were being watched. But we had a stalker at the time and WERE being watched.

I don't really believe in ghosts or ghost stories, but on the day I received my EGA at the end of the Crucible (in Marine Corps boot camp, you become a Marine about a week before you graduate in a small private ceremony with the rest of your recruit company after completing a grueling 72 hour field exercise known as "The Crucible".) my DI handed my my EGA, shook my hand and moved on, as I returned to the POA my eye was drawn to the berm right on the edge of the parade deck in front of me, a man in WW2 era service dress greens with 1st MarDiv insignia on his shoulder looked me right in the eye, saluted, about faced, stepped off and vanished. I have no explanation other then sleep deprivation and I'd swear before a court it was my grandfather.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Assuming that they aren't and that other worlds, beings, and dimensions don't exist is human arrogance.

You have it backwards, insisting that something only you can see and experience is real, is true arrogance.

Discounting something that there is no physical objective evidence for and is in contradiction to a vast amount of scientific empirical knowledge is what is called "reasonable" not "arrogant".

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

 poppa G wrote:
My house had a demonic possession...

No. It didn't.

You can't prove i didn't no more than I can prove I did.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
I don't really believe in ghosts or ghost stories, but on the day I received my EGA at the end of the Crucible (in Marine Corps boot camp, you become a Marine about a week before you graduate in a small private ceremony with the rest of your recruit company after completing a grueling 72 hour field exercise known as "The Crucible".) my DI handed my my EGA, shook my hand and moved on, as I returned to the POA my eye was drawn to the berm right on the edge of the parade deck in front of me, a man in WW2 era service dress greens with 1st MarDiv insignia on his shoulder looked me right in the eye, saluted, about faced, stepped off and vanished. I have no explanation other then sleep deprivation and I'd swear before a court it was my grandfather.

Whoah, that's pretty cool! Real or not!

Man you guys suck the fun out of this kind of thread. As someone said earlier - ghost stories are fun to read if you're in the mood.

Personally, my last workplace I was told was haunted in the way most people like to say their workplace is haunted. The IT guys even had a name for the ghost - Toby. Any time something wasn't where it was supposed to be, it was Toby, rather than some thoughtless employee moving something and not telling people.

They changed shifts for everyone to make sure someone was in the office until 6pm every night, and I drew the short straw of Friday night. So not only was I the last one out of IT on Friday, because it was Friday, everyone left early to hit the local bars, so I was generally the last one in the entire building.

Anyway, with about half an hour to go, I heard someone rummaging through stuff downstairs. IT was above the warehouse area, and the floor was gakky old wood that sound carried through. Where I heard the runmmaging, there was one way out - up some stairs that came out at a door behind me. I didn't really pay attention, since it could have been any old animal down there - maybe a rat.

Then I heard the downstairs door slam. Like, slam. Hard enough that if it had a window, it would have broken. Then I heard footsteps coming up the stairs, loudly. I turned and looked through the window on the upstairs door, and there were no lights on in the stairwell, nor downstairs, so there definitely was no one down there. As the thudding footsteps got near the door, they just faded away. Then the hairs on the back of my neck pricked up.

I booked it. Grabbed my bag, turned my PC and the printer off, and got the feth out. On the way out, there actually were two people left in the building, two sales people, who were working late. They asked why I was still there, and I told them I was meant to be back until 6pm on Fridays. They just said to go home, there was nothing to do anyway. I intended to. I asked them if they had been downstairs - they hadn't, there was no reason to. All work downstairs had stopped at about 3pm when all warehouse staff left, and there was no night shift.

Yeah. I'm glad I don't work there anymore.

 Manchu wrote:
They should do an episode where they all pile in the bathroom and dare each other to say "Bloody Mary" three times into the mirror.

That's standard protocol for when you wake up still drunk from the night before.

 -Loki- wrote:
Man you guys suck the fun out of this kind of thread. As someone said earlier - ghost stories are fun to read if you're in the mood.

Not really as it's just people making things up, something that is true or possible is more interesting to me.

As a child with an extremely vivid imagination, I could never sleep with the lights off. I grew out of it, but during a 3 moth study abroad in experience in Buenos Argentina, I had one of the scariest experiences of my life. It is an extremely old city. Mix that with the dirty war not even 50 years ago, and you have a setting for some wicked stories. Anyway, I stayed with a host mom in an apartment in a quiet neighborhood. We were the only ones in the apartment. It was very late and she was asleep. I walked down a long hallway to the kitchen to grab some water before bed. When I flicked on the light switch, the light bulb in the kitchen ceiling came on very brightly and then went out violently. The way it happened and the fact that it was very late at night scared me. I ran into my room and closed the door. It was closed tightly, but not locked. Then as I stood there, the door opened all by itself. I was so scared that I reverted back to my childhood self, jumped under the covers and later fell asleep.

I was convinced that it was a ghost, but the reality is that the light practically blew up because the electric current in Argentina is stronger than the U.S., so when you blow a fuse or blow out a light, the effect is stronger there. Also, it was an old building so the door probably opened due to differences in pressure between the hallway and my bedroom. Completely explainable. Then things got actually scary.

The next day I joked with my host mom that her house was haunted. Apparently, South Americans are extremely supersticious and it is very taboo to talk about ghosts in someone's house. This was also before I had found out that her husband had passed away a few years prior. Within a day, the study abroad director was at my house having a serious conversation with me. I thought she was going to tell me that I was just being immature. Then she goes, "some people are much more in tune with the spirit world". They even made me go to what they called a therapist, but she did all this weird stuff with techniques I have never seen before in the States. I just shut my mouth, apologized to my host mom, and realized that there are people out there much crazier that I am.

And this all happened because I was startled when I blew a fuse in the kitchen.

 Cheesecat wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
Man you guys suck the fun out of this kind of thread. As someone said earlier - ghost stories are fun to read if you're in the mood.

Not really as it's just people making things up, something that is true or possible is more interesting to me.

Mine isn't made up, though I'm not sure I'm going to convince anyone. I'm also sure there's a perfectly logical explaination, even if it's as simple as one of my collegues who left decided to play a trick (though I don't know how they got in that room when the only entry and exit is the door near where I sat).

It's still fun reading some peoples accounts of stuff that's fethed with their perceptions of the world around them when it happened.

Also, about the Bloody Mary thing. When I was a kid at camp, we did all the dumb things kids do, and this was one of them. We were in a bathroom with a very heavy door and did it three times. Everyone ran out laughing and yelling. Then this kid caught one of his fingers in the door and practically tore it off. I will never forget that. They had to rush him to the hospital. I never wanted to play that stupid game again after that.

It was in st. Augustine florida, on one of those haunted ghost tours. It wasn't completely dark yet, and my tour group was sitting in an old house/ hospital thing. I was sitting on a bench, and the guide was just explaining some stuff, and I wasn't expecting any "ghosts" yet. All of the sudden, the back of my neck and a bit of my head just got COLD. No we are in Florida, in the summer So it is HOT outside, even at night. This building was so old, there was no air conditioning units installed. We were indoors, so no wind would have got me.
It wasn't like i got a chill on my neck, it was like a source was drawing heat away. It was almost as intense as if someone put a bag of ice on my neck.

But most ghost things are just imagination. Was mine my imagination? Probably.
But see, now that I have read all these sories, I am expecting ghost stuff to go on. I keep thinking I hear noises. But i know i'm not, because my cat is here, and anything I hear, she will hear MUCH louder than I will, and her little ear would swivel to the source. Thats how i determine if a noise is my imagination or not, and it is quite reassuring.

People believing in ghosts and spirits would be less annoying to me if millions of people also did not believe that humans coexisted with dinosaurs and that tigers used to be vegetarians.

Then of course the problem of human albinos being hunted down and killed (like right now not only in the past) for their body parts to be used in magic potions in many African problems is the result of people believing in spirits and magic.

The amount of suffering and pain caused by the belief in magic and spirits among Hindu people cannot even be cataloged.

The list of stupidity and human suffering caused by uncritical thinking and the belief in spirits is crushing and why I have a low tolerance for that particular brand of nonsense.

 Peregrine wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
If I kill some more people do you think the ghosts would cancel each other out, or would the hauntings just get worse?

Probably only if you kill people of an opposing "faction" (ie. you knew they didnt like the first people you killed)

Back when my family lived in England we lived in a small town. Our house was a converted carriage house and there was an old covered up well under the kitchen floor. Now supposedly the local rumor was that a little girl fell into that well a long time ago and drowned. My mother and sister claimed on several occasions to see a little girl in the house at night (usually in my sisters room on the second floor). I myself never saw anything.

When I was a wee lad, the family went to New Orleans. My sister tried talking the family into going on a ghost tour. My dad looked at the tour guy and said "Ain't no way I'm paying that hippy any money for anything." There were some more colorful adjectives.

That evening, before bed, watching the news for the next days weather, we saw him on TV. His tour group witnessed a double homicide that night.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Yeah, I know it sounds a little contrived and story-like, but it's legit.

This is the cornerstone of all ghost stories.

Nothing wrong with a good ghost story.

So far

Ghost story goes "Guys and girls. You are not going to believe this"
Fairy Tale goes "Once upon a time in a land far away"
Good war story goes "No Shiat There I was. Knee deep in brass and frag pins"

I have been to Resurrection Cemetery, Chicago, and St. Louis Cemetery in New Orleans, Plus many other "Haunted" locations in the U.S.

Resurrection Cemetery is where "Resurrection Mary" has been reported to have been seen, and St. Louis Cemetery in New Orleans has the tomb of Marie Laveau, the famous voodoo priestess.

I have never seen anything that would make me believe that a ghost or anything supernatural was there ever.

http://mentalfloss.com/article/23046/quick-10-10-americas-most-haunted-cemeteries

 poppa G wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

 poppa G wrote:
My house had a demonic possession...

No. It didn't.

You can't prove i didn't no more than I can prove I did.

Well the burden of proof is on you as you made the claim...

JWhex wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Assuming that they aren't and that other worlds, beings, and dimensions don't exist is human arrogance.

You have it backwards, insisting that something only you can see and experience is real, is true arrogance.

Discounting something that there is no physical objective evidence for and is in contradiction to a vast amount of scientific empirical knowledge is what is called "reasonable" not "arrogant".

The thought that this is the only habitable world in the entire universe is definitely human arrogance. No other world ever had life? Statistically, this is impossible. Just because they haven't been to Earth doesn't mean they don't exist. And if other worlds can be inhabited, why can't there be other dimensions where creatures we perceive as ghosts exist? The arrogance I mention stems from people believing they are the only thing out there. I don't even follow your logic-I'm not the only one seeing this. There are others who have admitted it too. There was surely nothing about my comment that was arrogant.

And @Manchu-it's definitely not a story, the example I gave definitely took place. The ghost story I posted last year about my step brother's experience turned out to be a fake though-I found out later that he was just a very good story teller and good with MS Paint...

Actually no, that isn't what people are saying.

People are saying if there was actual proof and not just the ravings of random people, they'd believe it.

This thread is fun.

 timetowaste85 wrote:

JWhex wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Assuming that they aren't and that other worlds, beings, and dimensions don't exist is human arrogance.

You have it backwards, insisting that something only you can see and experience is real, is true arrogance.

Discounting something that there is no physical objective evidence for and is in contradiction to a vast amount of scientific empirical knowledge is what is called "reasonable" not "arrogant".

The thought that this is the only habitable world in the entire universe is definitely human arrogance. No other world ever had life? Statistically, this is impossible. Just because they haven't been to Earth doesn't mean they don't exist. And if other worlds can be inhabited, why can't there be other dimensions where creatures we perceive as ghosts exist? The arrogance I mention stems from people believing they are the only thing out there. I don't even follow your logic-I'm not the only one seeing this. There are others who have admitted it too. There was surely nothing about my comment that was arrogant.

And @Manchu-it's definitely not a story, the example I gave definitely took place. The ghost story I posted last year about my step brother's experience turned out to be a fake though-I found out later that he was just a very good story teller and good with MS Paint...

No one with a scientific background argues that this is the only habitable planet in the galaxy or universe, far from it.

Conflating the posibility of life on other planets with beings from other dimensions is such a fundamentally flawed argument you dont even need freshman philosophy to argue against it.

We know the characteristics of planets that may support life and we know the conditions that will likely exclude it.

Honestly, the idea that because there could be life on other planets means there could be life in other dimensions is just a stupid idea.

First of all, there are no other dimensions, that is just sci fi and fantasy, or worse it is speculative physics that is based on hypotheses that cannot be tested and is thus in the same class of ideas as an opium induced dream.

Now if there were other dimensions and spirits were just these creatures somehow manifesting in our own dimension then why can they not be objectively observed and recorded? All of your senses are ultimately based on the interpretation of physical properties, therefore any spirit you become aware of would have to be interacting with physical matter, which humans happen to be very expert in measuring and detecting with instruments far better than as individual organisms.

Now I will say that a good ghost story can be very enjoyable, I just pity the poor fool that believes a ghost story really happened.

I live near the most haunted place in the UK...

orkdestroyer1 wrote:
I live near the most haunted place in the UK...

Which is just as haunted as any other place as ghosts don't exist.

I like reading ghost stories, as long as they're well written. If not, then it's as boring as someone rambling on about their fething dreams or bad 40k fluff.

 Cheesecat wrote:

orkdestroyer1 wrote:
I live near the most haunted place in the UK...

Which is just as haunted as any other place as ghosts don't exist.

Hmmm...
Using that logic you could say everywhere is the most haunted place in the world...
That would be a great scam for tourists...

Welcome to my kitchen cupboard, the most haunted place in my kitchen.

Also of note, my fridge, which has minor hauntings every Tuesday.

As a former, occasional sufferer of sleep paralysis, it's interesting to me how many ghost encounters can be explained by that single sleep disorder.

From what I've heard, that sleep disorder is nothing short of terrifying.

Also the old images of it are creepy.

 gorgon wrote:
As a former, occasional sufferer of sleep paralysis, it's interesting to me how many ghost encounters can be explained by that single sleep disorder.

Also alien abduction stories.

I've had sleep paralysis once.

The nearest I can get to describing it is try to imagine your arms are moving, without actually moving them. Now imagine really hard they're moving. Now wonder why you're still not moving.
I know I was dreaming still as I saw a critter (remember that 'hilarious' film?) run down the side of my bed.
Weirded me for about 30seconds, till I realised I'd just forgotten how to move

The only weird thing I've ever seen was in Austria. I was at a church in a valley at dusk - there was one path leading to the church thorugh the valley.
I looked back up the path from the church and saw people walking down to the church and it looked like they were holding up torches.
I went back inside for a couple of minutes, then went to look again. There was no one there. There was no where else the people could have gone to, unless they were hiding in bushes.
I'm not ruling out that about 30 random Austrians have a hobby of wierding out tourists by hiding as soon as they aren't looking, but it just seems a bit far fetched...

Any ideas for a more sensible explanation?

Ghost Brothers of Darkland County Seriously.... Check out the page. Ghost story telling as can only be done by true experts.

PredaKhaine wrote:
I've had sleep paralysis once.

The nearest I can get to describing it is try to imagine your arms are moving, without actually moving them. Now imagine really hard they're moving. Now wonder why you're still not moving.
I know I was dreaming still as I saw a critter (remember that 'hilarious' film?) run down the side of my bed.
Weirded me for about 30seconds, till I realised I'd just forgotten how to move

The only weird thing I've ever seen was in Austria. I was at a church in a valley at dusk - there was one path leading to the church thorugh the valley.
I looked back up the path from the church and saw people walking down to the church and it looked like they were holding up torches.
I went back inside for a couple of minutes, then went to look again. There was no one there. There was no where else the people could have gone to, unless they were hiding in bushes.
I'm not ruling out that about 30 random Austrians have a hobby of wierding out tourists by hiding as soon as they aren't looking, but it just seems a bit far fetched...

Any ideas for a more sensible explanation?

Daemons from the Warp, you heretic!

 Jihadin wrote:

I could not even imagine writing up an after action report on terminating a "ghost" with extreme prejudice....

I'm told, though I'm not sure I believe it, that it happens enough at Camps Courtney and Foster that the duty keeps a separate log for them.

Quite a few of you seem to be of the opinion that ghosts are not real. This is misunderstanding the issue. Science has neither proven nor dis-proven the existence of ghosts. Short duration, non repeating events are a common problem in, for example, astronomy as well. If one scope picks up an event, but it is too short in duration to be picked up by another scope, it tends to be written off. It does not mean that the event did not happen, just that it does not qualify as evidence as it could not be verified.

The original reason that parapsychologists would carry around things like Geiger Counters and EMF detectors and FLIR systems was to gather as much raw data as possible in the hopes that a cause for anomalous reports could be found, and possibly replicated under controlled, laboratory conditions.

Science has neither dis-proven or proven the existence of a lot of things. I am happy enough to believe they don't exist until someone does prove it.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

I'm told, though I'm not sure I believe it, that it happens enough at Camps Courtney and Foster that the duty keeps a separate log for them.

Quite a few of you seem to be of the opinion that ghosts are not real. This is misunderstanding the issue. Science has neither proven nor dis-proven the existence of ghosts. Short duration, non repeating events are a common problem in, for example, astronomy as well. If one scope picks up an event, but it is too short in duration to be picked up by another scope, it tends to be written off. It does not mean that the event did not happen, just that it does not qualify as evidence as it could not be verified.

The original reason that parapsychologists would carry around things like Geiger Counters and EMF detectors and FLIR systems was to gather as much raw data as possible in the hopes that a cause for anomalous reports could be found, and possibly replicated under controlled, laboratory conditions.

Yup, and until I get some scientifically viable, REPEATABLE data, I'm going to continue saying that there is no evidence for ghosts existing apart from some people really wanting it to be true.

And let's not count the 'tools' that Ghost Hunters/Adventures uses, as those are TV show props and we all know it.

I've seen a few episodes of Ghost Hunters. What a freaking joke.

I'm not a believer myself, however I have considered spending time in a "haunted" local sometime in the future to see what the fuss is about.

 MrDwhitey wrote:
From what I've heard, that sleep disorder is nothing short of terrifying.

Also the old images of it are creepy.

The first time was the scariest. Then -- assuming you find out what it really is, which I guess isn't a given for everyone -- other episodes are just kind of an "oh, this again." It seemed like the later episodes were weaker and shorter just because I didn't panic and try to move when they happened. At least that's how it was for me. I haven't had one in many years. Still, it's enough to convince you that actually being paralyzed is even worse that you might imagine.

Regarding the painting, folk tales, etc., I never got the level of hallucination that some people get. The first time it happened, I saw some kind of dark, formless shape on my chest/body. I never saw that again in future episodes. If I had only known during my teenage years playing D&D that I'd someday meet a Night Hag...

@kronk -- You're 100% right about the abduction thing. Sleep paralysis explains a healthy chunk of those cases also.

Regarding ghost stuff in general, I don't believe any of it, but I'm also willing to have that opinion changed if I personally encounter something that's completely unexplainable. Like Ma55ter_fett, I've wanted to go spend the night in the "most haunted X evuh" just to see if I'd actually encounter anything. I'll never get my wife to agree, however. I don't believe that I'll see/hear/encounter a thing, but I'm not going to pretend that I know the nature of the universe either. *shrug*

A Tab-V at Zweibrucken Air Base was mothballed due to, and I quote 'strange occurrences' most notably Dash 60's starting up or shutting down in and of themselves.

The USAF is not in the habit of abandoning hardened hangers and explaining it as 'strange occurrences' without running through a lot of other explanations and attempted solutions first. Particularly in mid 1980's when hardened facilities in Germany were rather important.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
A Tab-V at Zweibrucken Air Base was mothballed due to, and I quote 'strange occurrences' most notably Dash 60's starting up or shutting down in and of themselves.

The USAF is not in the habit of abandoning hardened hangers and explaining it as 'strange occurrences' without running through a lot of other explanations and attempted solutions first. Particularly in mid 1980's when hardened facilities in Germany were rather important.

Okay, and?

Are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that 'strange occurrences' without any details, context or background is supposed to make us believe in ghosts? Really?

Well planes starting up and shutting themselves down is terrifying and totally unexplainable.
Abandoning the base to ghosts was clearly the best choice.
I would have gone so far as to call in both Luigi, the Brother's Grim, the Catholic Inquisition and the Ghost Busters to form some kind of supernatural A-Team...
Frankly this is yet another example of the American Government's policy of supernatural apeasement which they try to cover up by claiming they don't exist. This is how Hitler came to power.
I should clarify, New Hitler.

When I shared my story they simple threw it away because of that sleep paralysis thing. Why is this? Isn't it odd that it only happened once? If it's some condition like you suggest wouldn't it happen more than once?

 poppa G wrote:
When I shared my story they simple threw it away because of that sleep paralysis thing. Why is this? Isn't it odd that it only happened once? If it's some condition like you suggest wouldn't it happen more than once?

Except it is known that sleep paralysis can happen only once in a lifetime. It is not a condition.

 curran12 wrote:


Okay, and?

Are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that 'strange occurrences' without any details, context or background is supposed to make us believe in ghosts? Really?

Not supposed to make you 'believe' anything. A short summery of the dash 60:

The A/M32A-60B Generator Set, commonly called the "dash 60 start cart," was a trailer-mounted power unit capable of providing AC and DC power for aircraft electrical systems as well as high volume air for starting aircraft engines. The U.S. Air Force and other branches of the military, as well as many allied nations around the world, used thousands of these units in several variants over the years. Many are still in use today. The McDonnell-Douglas F-4 Phantom II was but one of the aircraft for which the unit was designed.

Powered by a gas-turbine engine that turned a maximum of 42,000 RPM, the A/M32A-60B generated precise 3-phase, 400-cycle power and produced 120 pounds of air pressure at 1,781 cubic feet per minute.

Not a piece of equipment you want to have just starting itself.

Base rotated several start carts through the hanger, all of them had the same issue regardless of history or maintenance.

The story, as it was told to me, was that the Canadian 427 Squadron, who had the base from it's completion until 1969 had a refueling accident in the hanger that the Tab V replaced. Previously, the site of Zweibruken AFB was a portion of the Sigfried Line (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siegfried_Line ), with several bunkers having been cleared before construction on the air base could commence,

Was it 'ghosts'? I have no idea. But something odd was going on, and the USAF apparently gave up trying to solve the problem.

I don't believe in ghosts and the supernatural. I have a friend who swears it's real, and any time the subject is brought up, he gets heated and defensive. He is also really easy to scare, citing these things.

 curran12 wrote:

 poppa G wrote:
When I shared my story they simple threw it away because of that sleep paralysis thing. Why is this? Isn't it odd that it only happened once? If it's some condition like you suggest wouldn't it happen more than once?

Except it is known that sleep paralysis can happen only once in a lifetime. It is not a condition.

Correct. I had more than one, but it was hardly a chronic thing...maybe 3 or 4 times in my lifetime? And not in like 20 years.

Something I left out earlier is that part of the experience is that you might feel like there's a presence -- possibly malevolent -- there with you. I had that with my first episode. So people aren't crazy for thinking it's something supernatural. But there's nothing there...it's just your brain fooling you.

I know it's not as sexy or interesting as "I encountered a ghost!" But there really is a medical reason for it, and it's pretty easy to identify sleep paralysis since people's experiences are generally very similar (and have been for centuries).

 -Loki- wrote:
Man you guys suck the fun out of this kind of thread.

Check the thread title, then.
Especially the "If not, why not." part of it.

The OP invited comments from BOTH sides. If he didn't then you might have a point. a
Since he did, your comment is the invalid one.

We can only perceive things that are in our home 4 dimensions (3 spacial+time). We can speculate beyond this, but without a way to measure or quantify these other dimensions (which theoretically exist), we can't say with any surety that they are any more real than Justin Bieber's fame.

If I had the time and money I would travel around the world playing out elaborate hoaxes about ghosts, UFOs and big foot type monsters. It would be so easy because people are gullible and local news producers are always looking for some cheesy story to fill on air time.

Then after about 20 years of winding people up I would confess on youtube or something.

Why? To get people to use critical thinking skills. Hopefully the next time someone BS's them they would think twice about it and others could learn from the poor fools being made an example of.

 purplefood wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:

orkdestroyer1 wrote:
I live near the most haunted place in the UK...

Which is just as haunted as any other place as ghosts don't exist.

Hmmm...
Using that logic you could say everywhere is the most haunted place in the world...
That would be a great scam for tourists...

Yeah that's what I was getting to.

Some of my friends and one of my friend's parents were wannabe ghost hunters from that stupid syfy show.

I went with them to a number of old abandon hospitals and asylums in New York, Maryland and Pennsylvania.

Just like the skittish deer on tv, they run and jump from every noise.

Found the places more beautiful from a architectural stand point than scary.

Was more afraid of mangy rabid bums possibly living in there.

JWhex wrote:
If I had the time and money I would travel around the world playing out elaborate hoaxes about ghosts, UFOs and big foot type monsters. It would be so easy because people are gullible and local news producers are always looking for some cheesy story to fill on air time.

Then after about 20 years of winding people up I would confess on youtube or something.

Why? To get people to use critical thinking skills. Hopefully the next time someone BS's them they would think twice about it and others could learn from the poor fools being made an example of.

My money would be you getting caught on the first try. The majority of hoaxters are.

I'll say that the one incident that I've witnessed, I've had a hard time explaining. A 65 pound cast iron fireplace insert (big Victorian thing) sat up and walked across the floor to the middle of the room and then fell over (about ten feet). On it's own, In front of myself and four other people (including a police officer). I'll admit, I checked it for strings and/or magnets and got nothing, None of the electronics were damaged as would happen with a emf powerful enough to move this object. According to the USGS there were no minor quakes at the time, and nothing else in the room moved.

I don't know if it was 'ghosts' but it was certainly odd.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
- Hamlet (1.5.166-7)

PredaKhaine wrote:
I've had sleep paralysis once.

The nearest I can get to describing it is try to imagine your arms are moving, without actually moving them. Now imagine really hard they're moving. Now wonder why you're still not moving.
I know I was dreaming still as I saw a critter (remember that 'hilarious' film?) run down the side of my bed.
Weirded me for about 30seconds, till I realised I'd just forgotten how to move

I've had it a few times in the past, and it would only ever end if I said (well shouted, any movement was like walking through a tarpit) the Our Father

 BaronIveagh wrote:

JWhex wrote:
If I had the time and money I would travel around the world playing out elaborate hoaxes about ghosts, UFOs and big foot type monsters. It would be so easy because people are gullible and local news producers are always looking for some cheesy story to fill on air time.

Then after about 20 years of winding people up I would confess on youtube or something.

Why? To get people to use critical thinking skills. Hopefully the next time someone BS's them they would think twice about it and others could learn from the poor fools being made an example of.

My money would be you getting caught on the first try. The majority of hoaxters are.

I'll say that the one incident that I've witnessed, I've had a hard time explaining. A 65 pound cast iron fireplace insert (big Victorian thing) sat up and walked across the floor to the middle of the room and then fell over (about ten feet). On it's own, In front of myself and four other people (including a police officer). I'll admit, I checked it for strings and/or magnets and got nothing, None of the electronics were damaged as would happen with a emf powerful enough to move this object. According to the USGS there were no minor quakes at the time, and nothing else in the room moved.

I don't know if it was 'ghosts' but it was certainly odd.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
- Hamlet (1.5.166-7)

Well, I kind of doubt I would get caught by the people I am trying to fool, like I said I would do it if I had the time and money. We are not talking about fooling really smart and savvy people we are talking about people that want to believe the hoax is real!

 BaronIveagh wrote:

JWhex wrote:
If I had the time and money I would travel around the world playing out elaborate hoaxes about ghosts, UFOs and big foot type monsters. It would be so easy because people are gullible and local news producers are always looking for some cheesy story to fill on air time.

Then after about 20 years of winding people up I would confess on youtube or something.

Why? To get people to use critical thinking skills. Hopefully the next time someone BS's them they would think twice about it and others could learn from the poor fools being made an example of.

My money would be you getting caught on the first try. The majority of hoaxters are.

I'll say that the one incident that I've witnessed, I've had a hard time explaining. A 65 pound cast iron fireplace insert (big Victorian thing) sat up and walked across the floor to the middle of the room and then fell over (about ten feet). On it's own, In front of myself and four other people (including a police officer). I'll admit, I checked it for strings and/or magnets and got nothing, None of the electronics were damaged as would happen with a emf powerful enough to move this object. According to the USGS there were no minor quakes at the time, and nothing else in the room moved.

I don't know if it was 'ghosts' but it was certainly odd.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
- Hamlet (1.5.166-7)

I do remember one time Queen Victoria slapped my mother. There were over 100 witnesses, including 20 firemen.

Getting scared all good and proper. A good "Flight or Fight" mechanism be it Super Natural or real. Been a paratrooper for over seven...eight years..Manage to swallow my fear. Manage my fear...Remain calm and compose and act like its another day. Have to set the example

But when you come close to being killed....that's 26 layers glass and adhesive. Only had 3 windows "intact". So it sucks when your alone and it comes back at you because everything in life just gain perspective. The fear is worst when your trying to overcome the initial fear for you know in your mind how fast it can happen and what it would look like because now you KNOW. Think a MOD can leave this up for like 1-2 hrs before deleting the pic. That IED was aimed specifically at that height for that window.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Looks a bit like Ultramar eh

Only ghost story I have isn't a ghost story at all. Don't believe in the stuff. I had been up for about 36 hours straight in high school working on a last minute paper. This was the first time I'd be up that long, and as such didn't realize I started to get hallucinations at that level of sleep deprivation (which I apparently do).

Anyway, the doors from my room to my brother's were open, and I looked through and saw someone in a grey shirt standing there. After freaking out, I built up the nerve to go through and take a look, only to find that it was a grey sweatshirt hanging off of some boxes that were stacked up in his room. The boxes were there because we'd be remodeling the attic, and it was the best place to store them in the meanwhile. I just didn't notice that he or someone had tossed a shirt there because I'd been too busy focusing on the paper

I felt foolish, because I could have sworn I actually saw someone there, but I guess my brain just filled in the rest of the form based upon the shape of the shirt. It proved to me a valuable point: there exists a potential explanation for every "paranormal" thing that occurs.

It's important to get enough sleep.

 MrDwhitey wrote:

I do remember one time Queen Victoria slapped my mother. There were over 100 witnesses, including 20 firemen.

In your (pathetic) effort to be snarky (please attend mandatory internet snark training, to be found at www.4chan.com) you clearly miss my point. Occasionally events take place which are not easily explained. These are uncommon, but they do happen. While this being the internet, and anyone saying anything is (correctly) subject to suspicion, unknown events are reported and filed every day by a variety of (in theory) reliable sources witnessed by men and women trained to observe and think critically. As Jihadin points out, no one wants to fill out the AAR that reads 'contact with supernatural entities' but the military has whole forests worth of paper of on duty personnel reporting strange and unusual events, so something clearly happened. Whether it was 'ghosts' or a previously unknown natural event (which as any scientist will tell you, the unknown is why scientists have careers still, as the universe likes to throw new things at us all the time) is itself unknown. Sadly, many 'scientists' do not investigate these events out of fear of losing credibility for 'ghost hunting' which leads to the same sort of myth as 'apes will rape any women you bring on an expedition to study them' (seriously, this was something they really thought at one point. Jane Goodall actually commented on that one, it was so prevalent when she started out).

Not investigating is every bit as much 'bad science' as what people like Ghost Hunters practice, it's just in the other direction.

Pity that sense of humor you got... I thought it was funny.

To deny the paranormal being a reality because you have no experience with it is foolish. Personally I have had some very strange things happen to me over the course of my life and to be honest I can't say some of them were not paranormal.

As an example when I was about 15 years old the home we were living in had this creepy ass dead bolted door at the end of our main hallway with no knob and my parents had lost the key to the door over a year before this incident. I had Just finished my nightly pre bed regimen and was coming out of my bathroom that was on the other end of the hallway opposite the creepy door and as I walked out and peered down the hall I could see the door was wide opened but the really fethed up part is that the deadbolt was still in the popped out locked position. I can't explain that for the life of me but I have to take it at face value and as far as I'm concerned it was a paranormal event seeing as my parents were just as befuddled as I was.

 Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:
To deny the paranormal being a reality because you have no experience with it is foolish.

No, it really isn't.

To deny the paranormal being a reality because you have no experience with it is foolish.

Not debunking you. How does one know if one is experiencing or having a paranormal activity. For all we know its just the "wind" or play of "shadows". We take the world for granted and pretty much have everything explain to us by science. Its like Hounds of Baskitville (Holmes Season 3 needs to hurry the hell up) where Holmes racked his brains to figure out what he saw. How far would we go as individuals to try to reason/rationionlize/clarify what we saw. We pretty much chalk it up to "wind" or "shadows" and then we have second thoughts..........

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:
To deny the paranormal being a reality because you have no experience with it is foolish.

No, it really isn't.

Why would it not be if you have had no past experiences with paranormal happenings. That's like saying I've never seen a condor so by default they do not exist.

 Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:
To deny the paranormal being a reality because you have no experience with it is foolish.

No, it really isn't.

Why would it not be if you have had no past experiences with paranormal happenings. That's like saying I've never seen a condor so by default they do not exist.

Really?

Is this REALLY your case? Okay, I'll make this quick.

Because unlike ghosts, I can see proof that condors exist and people can reliably show me where condors are and provide steady, reliable evidence. Not "oh this one time I was in a house and something happened so it HAS to be a ghost" without any way for you to recreate it.

 Jihadin wrote:

To deny the paranormal being a reality because you have no experience with it is foolish.

Not debunking you. How does one know if one is experiencing or having a paranormal activity. For all we know its just the "wind" or play of "shadows". We take the world for granted and pretty much have everything explain to us by science. Its like Hounds of Baskitville (Holmes Season 3 needs to hurry the hell up) where Holmes racked his brains to figure out what he saw. How far would we go as individuals to try to reason/rationionlize/clarify what we saw. We pretty much chalk it up to "wind" or "shadows" and then we have second thoughts..........

I can see what you are saying and it is true that the human mind will try to rationalize almost anything strange as a natural phenomenon to stymie the encroaching fear of the unknown. But I'm pretty sure that the door was wide open and the deadbolt was snapped out in the lock position so it's hard to rationalize something such as that as a natural phenomenon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 curran12 wrote:

 Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:
To deny the paranormal being a reality because you have no experience with it is foolish.

No, it really isn't.

Why would it not be if you have had no past experiences with paranormal happenings. That's like saying I've never seen a condor so by default they do not exist.

Really?

Is this REALLY your case? Okay, I'll make this quick.

Because unlike ghosts, I can see proof that condors exist and people can reliably show me where condors are and provide steady, reliable evidence. Not "oh this one time I was in a house and something happened so it HAS to be a ghost" without any way for you to recreate it.

But the response lacking any depth such a No, it really isn't is acceptable as a counter point.

 curran12 wrote:

Because unlike ghosts, I can see proof that condors exist and people can reliably show me where condors are and provide steady, reliable evidence. Not "oh this one time I was in a house and something happened so it HAS to be a ghost" without any way for you to recreate it.

And I'll toss in that there are entire fields of science where evidence is sketchy at best and perfect recreation of an event is impossible by nature.

It's called Quantum Mechanics. And hard evidence in that field can be rather hard to come by (even with multi-billion dollar particle smashers). Heisenberg and the Observer Effect tend to poop all over the idea of a controlled experiment in that one. Yet it's a respectable field of science.

 Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:
But the response lacking any depth such a No, it really isn't is acceptable as a counter point.

Stating something is foolish without providing any reasons as to why is not worthy of a deep and insightful counter-point, especially since there is really nothing there to counter since such a statement - lacking any sort of back-up whatsoever - is itself without depth.

You said it's foolish, I said it wasn't, and that was all I could say since you declined to offer any reasoning behind your statement save a personal anecdote, and I'm going to go ahead and assume that it wasn't your intention to use the 'I believe I experienced X so X must be true, therefore everyone who doesn't believe in X is foolish.' argument.

Baron's right.
We can't explain it so it must be ghosts...

 purplefood wrote:
Baron's right.
We can't explain it so it must be ghosts...

No, it's: We can't explain it, therefore it's time for SCIENCE to step in and solve the mystery!

*demotes Purplefood to 'Minion status' for his failure to grasp the obvious!*

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
Baron's right.
We can't explain it so it must be ghosts...

No, it's: We can't explain it, therefore it's time for SCIENCE to step in and solve the mystery!

*demotes Purplefood to 'Minion status' for his failure to grasp the obvious!*

So what are you saying?
You don't believe in ghosts but you do believe there is odd stuff that happens which science has yet to explain?
In that case what are people arguing about?

 purplefood wrote:

So what are you saying?
You don't believe in ghosts but you do believe there is odd stuff that happens which science has yet to explain?
In that case what are people arguing about?

I have generally stayed out of this particular argument, however here is my own personal take: The supernatural is real, there are those who genuinely experience something of it and never talk about it, there are those who genuinely experience something and do talk about it, and finally there are the "attention whores" who will never experience anything more supernatural than their city bus being 5 minutes late, but talk about experiences that they have never had.

In the case of "legitimate" supernatural occurrances, I feel that the reason these events cannot reliably be recreated, is in part due to technology, and in part due to science. I understand that there is so much of the universe that we just simply do not understand and cannot comprehend at this moment in time. However, I feel that in the right circumstances with the right people, what was once viewed as supernatural will become as plain as day. Afterall, many of our ancestors once believed that the sun was pulled by a chariot, with the moon forever chasing him. There are old sea maps with areas of the deep ocean labeled "there be monsters here", only for us to discover some truly massive creatures inhabit those parts (and in fact, that there are some 'monsters' out there like the Giant Squid)

Overnight sleepover at the Winchester Mystery house. I saw ghosts there, my cousin even has pics of what she swears aree ghosts.

 purplefood wrote:

So what are you saying?
You don't believe in ghosts but you do believe there is odd stuff that happens which science has yet to explain?
In that case what are people arguing about?

Depends on your definition of 'ghost'. Here's one to think about: science still can't explain fully what 'life' is (the oldest question next to 'why'? still really eludes us). Most current theories involve energy to some degree, but energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

So where does it go?

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 purplefood wrote:

So what are you saying?
You don't believe in ghosts but you do believe there is odd stuff that happens which science has yet to explain?
In that case what are people arguing about?

Depends on your definition of 'ghost'. Here's one to think about: science still can't explain fully what 'life' is (the oldest question next to 'why'? still really eludes us). Most current theories involve energy to some degree, but energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

So where does it go?

Probably somewhere else in a different form...

 purplefood wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 purplefood wrote:

So what are you saying?
You don't believe in ghosts but you do believe there is odd stuff that happens which science has yet to explain?
In that case what are people arguing about?

Depends on your definition of 'ghost'. Here's one to think about: science still can't explain fully what 'life' is (the oldest question next to 'why'? still really eludes us). Most current theories involve energy to some degree, but energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

So where does it go?

Probably somewhere else in a different form...

What? Are you serious? I'm 100% sure we know what is and isn't life.

 poppa G wrote:

 purplefood wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 purplefood wrote:

So what are you saying?
You don't believe in ghosts but you do believe there is odd stuff that happens which science has yet to explain?
In that case what are people arguing about?

Depends on your definition of 'ghost'. Here's one to think about: science still can't explain fully what 'life' is (the oldest question next to 'why'? still really eludes us). Most current theories involve energy to some degree, but energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

So where does it go?

Probably somewhere else in a different form...

What? Are you serious? I'm 100% sure we know what is and isn't life.

Oh really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism

Can you prove the world is not just an elaborate dream, without using your own perceptions? Or is all of history just a fever-dream induced by bad tacos and strong medication?

I have not personally encountered ghosts, or imagined I have. I would imagine even the most cynical and hardened nihilists doesn't hate humanity enough to hang around and move chairs to freak out random passerbys. If ghosts really exists, it would stand to reason that heroes and villians would be in a constant battle to affect the world, until apathy at the futility of it all eventually quieted them.

I prefer my spirits timeless, and without human limitations.

Gitzbitah wrote:

 poppa G wrote:

 purplefood wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 purplefood wrote:

So what are you saying?
You don't believe in ghosts but you do believe there is odd stuff that happens which science has yet to explain?
In that case what are people arguing about?

Depends on your definition of 'ghost'. Here's one to think about: science still can't explain fully what 'life' is (the oldest question next to 'why'? still really eludes us). Most current theories involve energy to some degree, but energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

So where does it go?

Probably somewhere else in a different form...

What? Are you serious? I'm 100% sure we know what is and isn't life.

Oh really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism

Can you prove the world is not just an elaborate dream, without using your own perceptions? Or is all of history just a fever-dream induced by bad tacos and strong medication?

I have not personally encountered ghosts, or imagined I have. I would imagine even the most cynical and hardened nihilists doesn't hate humanity enough to hang around and move chairs to freak out random passerbys. If ghosts really exists, it would stand to reason that heroes and villians would be in a constant battle to affect the world, until apathy at the futility of it all eventually quieted them.

I prefer my spirits timeless, and without human limitations.

I don't see how your question correlates to this. So help me figure it out. How does saying that this could be a taco induced dream prove that we still don't know what life is or isn't? I think you're trying to get at the whole "I think, therefore I am."

I've never had one.

I have my doubts that ghosts are real. It might be my motivation talking, but if they were, I would slash the feth out of them with my Kabar. Not Youmu though. Youmu is an okay ghost.

 Captain Fantastic wrote:
I've never had one.

I have my doubts that ghosts are real. It might be my motivation talking, but if they were, I would slash the feth out of them with my Kabar. Not Youmu though. Youmu is an okay ghost.

That is some pimpin' knife ware brah.
I don't know what they would do to a ghost though

 poppa G wrote:


I don't see how your question correlates to this. So help me figure it out. How does saying that this could be a taco induced dream prove that we still don't know what life is or isn't? I think you're trying to get at the whole "I think, therefore I am."

Hence the link I posted. There is a school of thought that says not only are we uncertain of what life is, but we also can be certain of nothing but that we think we are perceiving all that we are. Without using our senses, we can't prove the world around us exists- bringing up solipsism in a thread about the existence or lack thereof of ghosts seemed reasonable to me. I don't hold to that dogmatically, but I do believe our understanding of the universe is deeply flawed, and likely to remain that way.

10 years ago, no one had ever proven the existence of the Higgs-Boson particle.
100 years ago, nothing we made could leave Earth's orbit.
300 years ago, man could not fly.
A little over 500 years ago, everyone knew the world was round. 100 years before that, everyone knew that the Sun revolved around the Earth.

Even today, our definition of life is changing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_tube_worm survive by chemosynthesis without a digestive system. Indeed, trying to define life is nearly impossible. We don't even know if it has to be carbon based or not. Most definitions have an exception somewhere along the lines. I've never encountered a universal definition of life that holds true in every circumstance. If you have one or can find it, I will happily cede your certainty- until such time as science invalidates it, as it will inevitably disprove or modify all of our current knowledge.

 poppa G wrote:

What? Are you serious? I'm 100% sure we know what is and isn't life.

No, we really don't. Science has struggled for years to come up with a definition of 'life' (one reason some dictionaries can devote a whole page to differing definitions. MIrriam Webster has something like 20 different ones). What is that little 'something' that makes one thing alive an another dead? (and I know Jihadin and Frazz immediately thought '7.65 NATO', but that's not what I mean)

Structurally, biologically, chemically, a live body can be exactly the same as a dead one. Post mortem biological processes continue for quite some time, and the brain retains a small electric charge even after death.

 poppa G wrote:

I don't see how your question correlates to this. So help me figure it out. How does saying that this could be a taco induced dream prove that we still don't know what life is or isn't? I think you're trying to get at the whole "I think, therefore I am."

The point is that the only means you have for validating your existence, as well as the things you accept for fact are though your own perceptions, which are then critically analyzed in your own mind. If your perceptions are a lie, or your mind malfunctions, how do you validate that anything external to yourself (or even you) exist?

I mean, you see things, but what if sight is a lie? That would invalidate potentially anything you read, anything you see, anything I write. You could be in a coma right now, dreaming all of this. More importantly, I could be in a coma, dreaming you exist. You might not exist but as a fleeting thought in a fractured brain desperately attempting to keep itself together and invent a beautiful lie it can believe long enough to keep from breaking down altogether.

My point is, you don't 100% know jack, though you're probably 100% sure that you can trust your senses, because to open the door to any other possibility would be, well, pretty horrible.

Judging by my social life I'm pretty sure I died in 2011. So far I've found no evidence to disprove it.