https://www.facebook.com/GWSeattleBunker?hc_location=stream

So, like LA before it, the wide range of Seattle's Best Customers will enjoy an improved customer service experience.

Yes, my friends, it is a sad day in the State of Washington.

BAH!! Damn you GW!

+++ +++ Incoming Transmission +++ +++

On Sunday, July 28th the Games Workshop Seattle Battle Bunker as you know it will be closing its doors in order to be re-envisioned and remodeled as a Games Workshop Hobby Center. This remodel will take place during the final week of July and doors will reopen on Saturday, August 3rd.

This new Games Workshop Hobby Center format will allow us to better deliver on great customer service to our wide range of customers who are working on their own collections of models. This change also allows us to better focus on recruiting new customers to our great hobby. You can be assured that you will still have access to the same, great range of Games Workshop product as before, with the ability to enjoy a friendly game and improve your hobby skills in a smaller environment.

We thank all of you for your patronage and participation in the activities and events that have been showcased at the Seattle Battle Bunker over the years. We would like to invite you to visit the new Hobby Center beginning on August 3rd.

To prepare for this transition we will begin a new set of store hours starting on Monday, July 8th. The schedule will be as follows:
Monday/Tuesday: Closed
Wednesday/Thursday/Friday: 1pm – 8pm
Saturday: 12pm – 8pm
Sunday: 12pm – 6pm

I'd always wanted to go to the bunker. Had never gotten around to it though. Dammit GW

This is great news!!
Beat you to it, HBMC.

Also...the load of crap spewed in the letter about getting new people involved and helping people but stuff...that's a load of horse gak. My dad once told me that the day he stops being able to look at himself in the mirror is the day he screwed up royally. I wonder when GW broke all of their mirrors.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
This is great news!!
Beat you to it, HBMC.

Also...the load of crap spewed in the letter about getting new people involved and helping people but stuff...that's a load of horse gak. My dad once told me that the day he stops being able to look at himself in the mirror is the day he screwed up royally. I wonder when GW broke all of their mirrors.

umm...a marketing blurb is a load of crap? Tell me more

Well, GW has been reducing store presence over the past few years. It's sad but not unexpected, I can't remember the last time I had seen many people in there if it wasn't a tourney. But I also can't remember the last time I was in there. The Bellevue Bunker requires extreme patience to get to if you actually live in Seattle. Traffic is just a mess at the 405/90 interchange.

But the party supply store nextdoor also shuttered recently making me wonder if they are upping rents for businesses in the building, or if it's just time to sign a new lease.

Give it 6 months and those hours will get cut down to 12-6pm as well.

GW wants nothing to do with local support of customers anymore. They want your money, then they want you the hell out.

 Civik wrote:
Well, GW has been reducing store presence over the past few years. It's sad but not unexpected, I can't remember the last time I had seen many people in there if it wasn't a tourney. But I also can't remember the last time I was in there. The Bellevue Bunker requires extreme patience to get to if you actually live in Seattle. Traffic is just a mess at the 405/90 interchange.

But the party supply store nextdoor also shuttered recently making me wonder if they are upping rents for businesses in the building, or if it's just time to sign a new lease.

They are minimizing their store presence everywhere, and not because they are struggling financially. GW as a whole, that is. The stores just don't bring people in like they used to, and several of their Sales and Marketing higher-ups have stated they want to move more of the gaming itself into the FLGS. Their own store fronts will be introductory, educational, and nothing more. This allows them to devote more resources to the online and eContent, as well as pumping the releases out every other month for each system. The tournament organizers, FLGS campaigns, and gaming clubs will drive the hobby.

I know the last 3 or 4 times I made the trip to Chicago, their Bunker was completely empty on weekends too. People played in a basement, a tournament setting, or at their FLGS. The same people who didn't show up to the Bunker then complained when these things started going down.

It's sad to see an era come to an end, but GW is changing to meet the equally changing market.

 Aerethan wrote:
Give it 6 months and those hours will get cut down to 12-6pm as well.

GW wants nothing to do with local support of customers anymore. They want your money, then they want you the hell out.

Riiiight. Has nothing to do with the fact that people don't support the stores either; they go to the shop their buddy owns, or shop at a no-service online discount retailer. GW is still growing and making money, but the Bunkers themselves are just a sieve.

Wow, I haven't been in there in years!
That store used to be pretty well-attended from what I remember way back in the day.
I'll be sure to visit after August 3rd now, so I can see firsthand the new face of GW.

Riiiight. Has nothing to do with the fact that people don't support the stores either; they go to the shop their buddy owns, or shop at a no-service online discount retailer. GW is still growing and making money, but the Bunkers themselves are just a sieve.

My local store makes it's annual sales goals. My local store had the WORLD record for Armies on Parade entries the last 2 years running for all stores that aren't the HQ in Nottingham. My local store is and always has been a 1 man operation with 2 tables open for play. My local store gets plenty of local support, even from those of us who buy online at a discount, because WE like our manager and the community we have.

The LA bunker was not my store. And I agree that the space they had was likely too big. But GW ignores stores like mine which could very well double their tables and see them full on the weekends.

GW does zero marketing, zero sanctioned events, has zero prize support.

My store also does not have any cover managers, so if Chris is out, the store is closed. That same store had it's hours cut down to the point where people getting off work at 4 or 5 can no longer get a game in mid week.

You know what the response was to that? The random comic store across town buying out the space next door to itself and putting in like 5 tables for open play, to draw in those customers. And they are open every day until 7.

GW doesn't want GAMER's, they want buyers. It's a damn shame that all they care about is if EVERY store makes sales. Heaven forbid Store X's profit be carried over to store Y to make up for any missed sales, but to keep a foothold in that market. That might be sensible.

 Civik wrote:
But the party supply store nextdoor also shuttered recently making me wonder if they are upping rents for businesses in the building, or if it's just time to sign a new lease.

The frame shop also closed up but that was because the people retired or something. No, rent isn't really the issue. GW is "right-sizing" the Bunker because they don't want Bunkers anymore. This will also happen in Chicago, if it hasn't already. Don't know what the plan is for Memphis.

 brassangel wrote:
The stores just don't bring people in like they used to, and several of their Sales and Marketing higher-ups have stated they want to move more of the gaming itself into the FLGS.

Of course, as they move more and more items to "direct only," they're trying to move as much of the purchasing out of the FLGS as they can.

I remember working there...it was the worst job I ever had and that says lot as I was a grunt for five years in active army.

I would have supporedt my local store, if I had one.

Just like wolves on fenris, there are no GW's is Seattle.

 Breotan wrote:
https://www.facebook.com/GWSeattleBunker?hc_location=stream

So, like LA before it, the wide range of Seattle's Best Customers will enjoy an improved customer service experience.

Yes, my friends, it is a sad day in the State of Washington.

Why do they do such dumb stuff? Are they honestly trying to drive people away?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Aerethan wrote:

Riiiight. Has nothing to do with the fact that people don't support the stores either; they go to the shop their buddy owns, or shop at a no-service online discount retailer. GW is still growing and making money, but the Bunkers themselves are just a sieve.

My local store makes it's annual sales goals. My local store had the WORLD record for Armies on Parade entries the last 2 years running for all stores that aren't the HQ in Nottingham. My local store is and always has been a 1 man operation with 2 tables open for play. My local store gets plenty of local support, even from those of us who buy online at a discount, because WE like our manager and the community we have.

The LA bunker was not my store. And I agree that the space they had was likely too big. But GW ignores stores like mine which could very well double their tables and see them full on the weekends.

GW does zero marketing, zero sanctioned events, has zero prize support.

My store also does not have any cover managers, so if Chris is out, the store is closed. That same store had it's hours cut down to the point where people getting off work at 4 or 5 can no longer get a game in mid week.

You know what the response was to that? The random comic store across town buying out the space next door to itself and putting in like 5 tables for open play, to draw in those customers. And they are open every day until 7.

GW doesn't want GAMER's, they want buyers. It's a damn shame that all they care about is if EVERY store makes sales. Heaven forbid Store X's profit be carried over to store Y to make up for any missed sales, but to keep a foothold in that market. That might be sensible.

You want to keep that quiet. Your local store gets too successful, your going to end up losing it to budget cuts.

Hate to burst everyone's GW hate bubble, but corporate stores are doing this all over the place. I work at Target and their new company concept is to use far fewer staff to cover the same number of positions for the same pay. I am often assigned to at least one extra department a night, saving the store 6 hours of labor. We are always short on cashiers, so that salesfloor people have to sprint to ring up customers. All of this added stress on the employees is to protect overhead and ultimately pay off the stockholders.

The sky is not falling and we are not victims. It is the new corporate concept.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Hate to burst everyone's GW hate bubble, but corporate stores are doing this all over the place. I work at Target and their new company concept is to use far fewer staff to cover the same number of positions for the same pay. I am often assigned to at least one extra department a night, saving the store 6 hours of labor. We are always short on cashiers, so that salesfloor people have to sprint to ring up customers. All of this added stress on the employees is to protect overhead and ultimately pay off the stockholders.

The sky is not falling and we are not victims. It is the new corporate concept.

Where is it written that we
a) Have to like it
b) That just because its the newy newness that its a good idea?

Many UK companies outsourced their call centres to India (I believe this happened a lot in the US too) for exactly the same reason. It was so unpopular, largely down to the wide variety of regional British accents posing a major barrier to communication to an Indian operator who had been taught English by a Dutchman or Californian or similar, that many companies have now reversed the decision to the point where "UK Call Centres" is frequently advertised as a reason to buy from a specific organisation.

Unfortunately, GW doesn't seem to be the type of organisation that is willing to admit when it's made a mistake, so no doubt the pillaging of everything that made many people choose to frequent GW stores over independents, or order online and play at home, is great news.

not saying we have to like it or that it is a good idea. Just informing you that GW is not the enemy. they are just going with the current corporate flow.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
not saying we have to like it or that it is a good idea. Just informing you that GW is not the enemy. they are just going with the current corporate flow.

That's a crap excuse though. GW can't blame their bad decisions on trying to do what all the cool kid corporations are doing. They are making blatantly bad decisions for short term gains while shooting their long term presence in the face.

Here's a thought: Wizards of the Coast. They shut down 100% of their stores, and moved to LGS/Big Box only distribution with prize support and events for venues that would host them.

What GW should be doing is hiring a marketing team that supports LGS's with events and advertises those events to bring in new blood. They should be closing down every GW store that has an independent retailer within 30 miles of it and let those stores do the selling.

GMI Games in Riverside does plenty damn fine with no GW opposition nearby. They offer GW full lines as well as a mass of other game systems. They have regular players, they have gaming space, they run events, they offer prize support.

Hell, you know what the buy in is for their tourneys? Buying $25 worth of product. That's not even a fee at that point, it's just you getting stuff and then having the event to possibly get free stuff.

With how many non GW players are in that store, if GW sponsored events there for beginners, they'd have a TON of potential customers that already frequent that store.

There is no possibility of that with a GW only store. The people in those stores are already buying. The foot traffic is minimal unless you happen to be in a shopping mall.

GW's retail "system" is piss poor and everyone knows it.

Wizards had stores?

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Wizards had stores?

They did. And they carried GW product as well. Those stores closing is how I was able to get my first army. They had a 75% off sale, and I managed to pick up the boxed game and 2 Empire battalions for about $100 iirc.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
This is great news!!
Beat you to it, HBMC.

Ye not be stealin' me thunder quite so easily next time! *waves hooked hand in anger*

 Aerethan wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Wizards had stores?

They did. And they carried GW product as well. Those stores closing is how I was able to get my first army. They had a 75% off sale, and I managed to pick up the boxed game and 2 Empire battalions for about $100 iirc.

But unlike Wizards, GW has not been kind to independent retailers as well. They're opening up more one man stores, trying to get them into places where a LFGS exists nearby. Trade terms have been unsatisfactory or contentious or meh in all spectrums.

 Aerethan wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
not saying we have to like it or that it is a good idea. Just informing you that GW is not the enemy. they are just going with the current corporate flow.

That's a crap excuse though. GW can't blame their bad decisions on trying to do what all the cool kid corporations are doing. They are making blatantly bad decisions for short term gains while shooting their long term presence in the face.

Here's a thought: Wizards of the Coast. They shut down 100% of their stores, and moved to LGS/Big Box only distribution with prize support and events for venues that would host them.

What GW should be doing is hiring a marketing team that supports LGS's with events and advertises those events to bring in new blood. They should be closing down every GW store that has an independent retailer within 30 miles of it and let those stores do the selling.

GMI Games in Riverside does plenty damn fine with no GW opposition nearby. They offer GW full lines as well as a mass of other game systems. They have regular players, they have gaming space, they run events, they offer prize support.

Hell, you know what the buy in is for their tourneys? Buying $25 worth of product. That's not even a fee at that point, it's just you getting stuff and then having the event to possibly get free stuff.

With how many non GW players are in that store, if GW sponsored events there for beginners, they'd have a TON of potential customers that already frequent that store.

There is no possibility of that with a GW only store. The people in those stores are already buying. The foot traffic is minimal unless you happen to be in a shopping mall.

GW's retail "system" is piss poor and everyone knows it.

You know there are GW plants/Apoligists in here now do you This is getting so pathetic on hearing on how "Awesome" this is to the hobby on the closure of all the Battle Bunkers. The same kind of awesomeness I've heard about the Reduction of store hours back at 2010 (from 55 hours to 35 hours per week).

Piss poor retail system? Hell yes it is, but as I have stated in the past this is all part of their revenue streaming process. Because quite frankly they lost so much in the customer base that this is one of the results of the process. They are a company of smoke and mirrors now. An interesting amount of sales information was produced because of the CH lawsuit. I've thoroughly enjoyed seeing that bully mentality getting smacked in the face. It is really too late (IMHO) for any changes for the good of the customer base. But boy it has been rather comical of seeing a bunch load of low posting people suddenly coming out of the woodwork and trying to defend GW's corporate line.

The one-man stores are just a horrible concept. The one in Cincinnati that just opened last January is now on it's third "manager". They keep getting fired due to low sales numbers, when its not even really their fault. Poor location and having plenty of stores that give discounts is killing it.

What's worse is how the store is closed Monday and Tuesday, and is only open in the late afternoon the rest of the week. Even if I wanted to go there, for whatever reason, I can't because of my work and school schedules. Tuesdays are my only free day.

This is great news! Now that you won't have in-store gaming anymore you'll have much more time to spend on your favorite Hobby™, buying Games Workshop™ Products™.

This is off topic, but where did the, "This is great news!" meme come from?

 Seaward wrote:
This is off topic, but where did the, "This is great news!" meme come from?

One of the GW stores put up a facebook post about how it was "great news" that they were ending in-store gaming except for newbie intro games.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
The sky is not falling and we are not victims. It is the new corporate concept.

Of course we're victims. We're a bunch of blind monkeys clinging to a rock hurtling through space and the rock itself is dying. That the excesses of capitalism are making things miserable everywhere is just par for the course.

"Better deliver on great customer service" by reducing shop size and opening hours. This is great news!

After doubling prices, less and less people start the hobby. Can't be advertising (we do none). Must be the stores!

I guess people will now just have to play at Games and Gizmos, Card Kingdom, Game On, Game Matrix, or that one place in Ballard I went to once and can't remember the name of.

Oh, and there's probably places in Auburn and Federal Way I'm forgetting as well.

This is great news!

I mean you aren't really supposed to play games with GW figures. You are just supposed to keep buying all the new and awesome releases and put them on a shelf. I mean you are never
going to get around to painting all that stuff anyway.

-typed while pooping

 SickSix wrote:


...snip...

-typed while pooping

Dear lord! Don't strain yourself

 DA's Forever wrote:
I'd always wanted to go to the bunker. Had never gotten around to it though. Dammit GW

 Civik wrote:
It's sad but not unexpected, I can't remember the last time I had seen many people in there if it wasn't a tourney. But I also can't remember the last time I was in there.

 AT wrote:
Wow, I haven't been in there in years!

Dunno... seems kinda evident why they close it just from this thread

Those hours are pretty strange. Friday from 1-8? That seems to successfully stop any mid-shifts from coming in to game--as well as the day shift/after work crew. Saturday closing at 8--Sunday at 6?

I'm assuming this is because they insist on having one person run the store--as that puts him at 37 hours--which allows 3 hours a week for other managerial duties. I'm guessing the schedule is probably pretty easy for the manager to do


Unless of course, he gets ill or wants to take this family on a vacation---then do they ship relief managers in?

 SickSix wrote:
This is great news!

I mean you aren't really supposed to play games with GW figures. You are just supposed to keep buying all the new and awesome releases and put them on a shelf. I mean you are never
going to get around to painting all that stuff anyway.

-typed while pooping

GW has always said 2/3rds of their customers never play the game and only buy the models for collecting or display.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Hate to burst everyone's GW hate bubble, but corporate stores are doing this all over the place. I work at Target and their new company concept is to use far fewer staff to cover the same number of positions for the same pay. I am often assigned to at least one extra department a night, saving the store 6 hours of labor. We are always short on cashiers, so that salesfloor people have to sprint to ring up customers. All of this added stress on the employees is to protect overhead and ultimately pay off the stockholders.

The sky is not falling and we are not victims. It is the new corporate concept.

This is not about having fewer people do the same amount of work that more people used to do. GW is reducing the size of the store, and reducing the store hours. One man stores suck for customers and staff alike. For the customer, the store closes for breaks, is not open seven days a week, and opens late and closes early. For the staff, they cannot even go to the bathroom without locking up the store, and do not have time to devote to run events.

Companies that are failing are downsizing or closing stores. Companies that are succeeding are opening or expanding stores. One local Apple store has recently expanded, and Tesla are opening stores.

As a regular customer at the Seattle (Factoria really) Battle Bunker, it's had plenty of people there on Saturdays at least, probably had 3-4 people ready to play a game of 40K at any given time on Saturdays with another 6-10 people hobbying or playing Fantasy. The final tournament this last Saturday at 1850 points had about 20 people attending.

The frame shop next door to it was acquired by the bunker several years ago and remade into space for another 10ish tables because the 6 or so they originally had weren't even enough for all the people that started showing up for tournaments.

There's probably at least a half-dozen or so regulars that show up almost every Saturday like clockwork to get in a few games of 40K, now that's been thrown out the window and is likely to kill any further purchases from veteran players because why pay full price when you have no incentive to even drive down there?

It's a sad state of affairs as there are so many GWs in western Washington that FLGS are few and far between comparatively.

The battle bunker may not have seen sales any better than a one man store for that population base to "justify" it's existence with their new store model.

I got into GW stuff because it was so universal: you could find opponents and a place to play pretty much anywhere.

That is how I was able to justify spending the money to "support" the infrastructure so do not have to depend on my friend's availability as my only means to get a game in.

This is in my opinion their sole means of differentiating themselves from other game companies. Despite their claims of creating the "best models in the world" I think that can be refuted now.

It is like they are going in reverse: our society has gone more service based away from commodity.

They have removed themselves from being relevant and I see my collection being a part of a dusty old game system no-one will remember in 15 years time.

 Aerethan wrote:
Give it 6 months and those hours will get cut down to 12-6pm as well.

GW wants nothing to do with local support of customers anymore. They want your money, then they want you the hell out.

The only reason I shop at the GW store in Kent, WA is to support the place that my sons and I play at. They've gone down to a 1 person store as well, but they still have 5 gaming tables and a decent community of regular players. If I have nowhere to just stop by and get a game after work, I'll be buying online only from discount stores, if at all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Breotan wrote:

 Civik wrote:
But the party supply store nextdoor also shuttered recently making me wonder if they are upping rents for businesses in the building, or if it's just time to sign a new lease.

The frame shop also closed up but that was because the people retired or something. No, rent isn't really the issue. GW is "right-sizing" the Bunker because they don't want Bunkers anymore. This will also happen in Chicago, if it hasn't already. Don't know what the plan is for Memphis.

The last time I was in the bunker on a non-tournament day, there was one other person besides staff in there. So I can sort of understand why they're doing this, but I'm sad that the monthly tournaments are going away. I really enjoyed those.

Personally, I'm sad to see another Battle Bunker close, because it's a loss of focus from the hobby and my .02 is that if the store focuses on the hobby, than the sales will follow. When you have 1-man to run a store that is supposed to answer game questions, answer sales questions, run the register, and maintain order in the store, then you have a recipe for disaster.

Again in my opinion, GW's price point into the hobby for Warhammer Fantasy and 40k is a very hard sell. They don't advertise outside of their own web page, Facebook, and what email traffic they send out. So, unless you have an outlet for people to see what is possible to do with that army after you've built and painted it, I don't see many of these hobby centers lasting very long... There's just too much for the sales clerk to keep track of and without anyone else working the stores, it becomes a game of which will happen first: Either the store clerk will get burned out and leave or the store will close due to lack of sales and support.

This is really where the independent retailers/mom and pop stores can shine. An independent store with tables, terrain, and staffed properly running demos, leagues, tournaments, campaigns, and events can really set the example of what GW should look at. IMO, Games Workshop doesn't need Battle Bunker sized stores, but a store with a bit more space to have 4 tables in it and at least 1 additional employee I think would pay off huge in sales figures. Granted, I don't have any actual financial figures to hold up. However, I worked at one of the most successful independent game store in Southern California for 5 years and I saw first hand just what hosting leagues, campaigns, and tournaments did in terms of sales.... If you build it and promote the hobby, they will come.

gw has edged me out with their price increases. I'm just not willing to pay their prices. I've wanted daemon engines for my csm but I will not pay retail or even discounted retail prices. I can't buy anything without feeling ripped off. Close all the stores for all I care. Gaming at home is my preference anyway. Nice to see all the Seattle gamers shout out, tho.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Seaward wrote:
This is off topic, but where did the, "This is great news!" meme come from?

One of the GW stores put up a facebook post about how it was "great news" that they were ending in-store gaming except for newbie intro games.

Well if it gets non-buying mooches who squat on the gaming tables out, and teens with fistfulls of cash to buy new stuff in, then it is "great news" for them. It has yet to be seen if that "reality" is actually playing out and if ending open gaming and removing bunker space increases revenues or not at the location.

The argument that stores need to provide expensive gaming space as a loss leader expense to promote sales may not match reality... or it may be absolutley true. no one really knows. But GW has its big boy pants on, I don't need to worry about them and if their business decisions are sound or not. my GWs seem to be doing ok and treat me well and provide services I need for now, so I buy stuff from them sometimes.

This is sad for a whole number of reasons.

This battle bunker was my FLGS. The next closest game store that I'm aware of is an Uncle Game's in Crossroads and that's not really for wargaming.

I can remember, quite vividly, walking into the Battle Bunker either nine of ten years ago, the walls full of blister packs, with a buy two get one free sale. The Steel Legionnaires I picked up that day are still in my army box. Back then, it was just the entry foyer, the gateway, and then the gaming area in the back with five-six tables and the bathroom.

I gradually stopped visiting the place after I went to college and gamed there, but it was only a few months ago that I started going to the battle bunker again. And it looked amazing, because in those years I hadn't been there, they had expanded into the framing shop next door, and there were loads of tables. And I was eager to get back into the hobby.

Ironically enough, I had just gone there Sunday, the day before the announcement, to pick up a battleforce for my brother who was interested in the hobby. I had justified buying direct from the store because hey, I wanted to support this local battle bunker of mine. (And I'm pretty sure they do brisk business given the lack of product on the shelves).

If they're obliterating the entire back room, that means there's only three tables in the entire store. I don't even know where I would go to play now. I might have to go up to Ballard to play, but I hear they're much bigger on PP than anything.

I mad.

 AgeOfEgos wrote:
Those hours are pretty strange. Friday from 1-8? That seems to successfully stop any mid-shifts from coming in to game--as well as the day shift/after work crew. Saturday closing at 8--Sunday at 6?

I'm assuming this is because they insist on having one person run the store--as that puts him at 37 hours--which allows 3 hours a week for other managerial duties. I'm guessing the schedule is probably pretty easy for the manager to do


Unless of course, he gets ill or wants to take this family on a vacation---then do they ship relief managers in?

When I worked there in 06-07 our hours were
Mondays: closed
Tues-Sat:12-9
Sunday: 12-6

Be mindful I had to be there by 11am to prep the store and generally left around 930pm. We had a 1 hour lunch break and that was it and if we were over our weekly time then our Regional MGR would fix the hours so we weren't. Like I said worst job I ever had was working at the Seattle Battle Bunker. OOOOH I forgot we were encouraged to play games with customers but we were forced to clock out to do so as the Regional didn't want us wasting the companies time (his words).

 undertow wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:
Give it 6 months and those hours will get cut down to 12-6pm as well.

GW wants nothing to do with local support of customers anymore. They want your money, then they want you the hell out.

The only reason I shop at the GW store in Kent, WA is to support the place that my sons and I play at. They've gone down to a 1 person store as well, but they still have 5 gaming tables and a decent community of regular players. If I have nowhere to just stop by and get a game after work, I'll be buying online only from discount stores, if at all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Breotan wrote:

 Civik wrote:
But the party supply store nextdoor also shuttered recently making me wonder if they are upping rents for businesses in the building, or if it's just time to sign a new lease.

The frame shop also closed up but that was because the people retired or something. No, rent isn't really the issue. GW is "right-sizing" the Bunker because they don't want Bunkers anymore. This will also happen in Chicago, if it hasn't already. Don't know what the plan is for Memphis.

The last time I was in the bunker on a non-tournament day, there was one other person besides staff in there. So I can sort of understand why they're doing this, but I'm sad that the monthly tournaments are going away. I really enjoyed those.

I've been to the one in Kent while I was up that way for work. The GW there was very nice and the guy was extremely helpful in helping me plan out a purchase. Plan out. Not actually make a purchase. He gave me locations where I could find what I needed to get good, solid background info for my Crimson Fists. Very impressed with that store. And a guy there was making an awesome Daemon Prince conversion too.

 pretre wrote:

+++ +++ Incoming Transmission +++ +++

On Sunday, July 28th the Games Workshop Seattle Battle Bunker as you know it will be closing its doors in order to be re-envisioned and remodeled as a Games Workshop Hobby Center. This remodel will take place during the final week of July and doors will reopen on Saturday, August 3rd.

This new Games Workshop Hobby Center format will allow us to better deliver on great customer service to our wide range of customers who are working on their own collections of models. This change also allows us to better focus on recruiting new customers to our great hobby. You can be assured that you will still have access to the same, great range of Games Workshop product as before, with the ability to enjoy a friendly game and improve your hobby skills in a smaller environment.

We thank all of you for your patronage and participation in the activities and events that have been showcased at the Seattle Battle Bunker over the years. We would like to invite you to visit the new Hobby Center beginning on August 3rd.

To prepare for this transition we will begin a new set of store hours starting on Monday, July 8th. The schedule will be as follows:
Monday/Tuesday: Closed
Wednesday/Thursday/Friday: 1pm – 8pm
Saturday: 12pm – 8pm
Sunday: 12pm – 6pm

This is great news! Well, GW certainly knows how to spin a story....

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I've been to the one in Kent while I was up that way for work. The GW there was very nice and the guy was extremely helpful in helping me plan out a purchase. Plan out. Not actually make a purchase. He gave me locations where I could find what I needed to get good, solid background info for my Crimson Fists. Very impressed with that store. And a guy there was making an awesome Daemon Prince conversion too.

The Kent store has been good for us (me and my sons). I'll continue to play there for the foreseeable future.

Hospy wrote:
This is sad for a whole number of reasons.
If they're obliterating the entire back room, that means there's only three tables in the entire store. I don't even know where I would go to play now. I might have to go up to Ballard to play, but I hear they're much bigger on PP than anything.

Games & Gizmos in Redmond isn't much farther than Uncle's Games, they've got tables. You're right about Uncle's, generally only board games and card games going on there.

 Empchild wrote:

...and if we were over our weekly time then our Regional MGR would fix the hours so we weren't.

Wow, that is incredibly illegal. At least here. And I can't imagine it isn't almost everywhere in the US.

~Eric

 Taarnak wrote:

 Empchild wrote:

...and if we were over our weekly time then our Regional MGR would fix the hours so we weren't.

Wow, that is incredibly illegal. At least here. And I can't imagine it isn't almost everywhere in the US.

~Eric

It's illegal everywhere in the US. Doesn't stop lots of managers/owners from doing it. I used to work at a restaurant where we were ordered to come in 15 mins before our shift started, work the 15 mins, then clock in when the shift was supposed to start. It's illegal, but happens a lot. I quit after about two months of that crap, myself.

 AT wrote:

Hospy wrote:
This is sad for a whole number of reasons.
If they're obliterating the entire back room, that means there's only three tables in the entire store. I don't even know where I would go to play now. I might have to go up to Ballard to play, but I hear they're much bigger on PP than anything.

Games & Gizmos in Redmond isn't much farther than Uncle's Games, they've got tables. You're right about Uncle's, generally only board games and card games going on there.

Thanks for the reminder!

Forgot they were still around.

nkelsch wrote:


GW has always said 2/3rds of their customers never play the game and only buy the models for collecting or display.

That was sort of me, briefly. From the time I started playing D&D in 2001 and up until I started playing 40k in 2008, I have purchased a box of lizardmen (skinks?), Warriors of Chaos, skeletons, and LoTR Orcs, all for D&D, because I wanted a lot of "mob" monsters and "grunt" bad guys.

I had no intention of every playing fantasy or 40k or LoTR until my meddling friends got me into the HHHobby.

Anyway, back to the news: Sorry for Seattle players. That sucks.

Illegal yes it is...highly and I'm sure I could have filled a complaint with the govt and never had anything done about it. When GW asked me if I wanted to work at the corp office I laughed and said hell no. Question BTW is the Kent store run by Jared Ramm? Old friend and great guy is why I ask.

I haven't personally played at the Auburn GW store, but I heard good things about it from others, might be worth looking into. I'm a 'garage games' guy myself.

Operating a successful and independent hobby store might be one of the most difficult ventures out there. I played a ton of magic way back, and saw numerous shops all close for the same reasons. Lots of people hanging around, but when it came time to actually buy anything, it was off to the internet. Everybody was always friendly to the shop owner, but really never supported them in any meaningful fashion.

In retail, there are four main factors that determine whether or not you'll be successful. Rent, labor costs, sales and your margin on the sales.

If a slew of gaming tables actually created any measurable income, GW likely wouldn't be closing down the bunkers. The amount of dollars per square foot the smaller stores generate are probably far greater then a bunker store. We already know the labor costs become much smaller, the rent more affordable and the margins don't change at all. Risk of loss goes down, profits generally rise.

We don't have access to their books, but if it was your business, and your large stores were draining your bottom line, would you keep them open?

Auburn is awesome definitely go there or Olympic cars and comics. As for the business end when I was there our monthly goal was 20k in sales as it stood we only hit our goal 1 month out of 15 I knew of and that was the month I left. Sales overall were around the 16-18k mark nowiI don't Invision it getting much better since.

nkelsch wrote:

Well if it gets non-buying mooches who squat on the gaming tables out...

If you mean by "non-buying mooches" you mean, "the people who previously bought the product and now want to use it and get their money's worth", or "using the space as it was advertise as free" then you're being a jerk. However it's hard to tell from an internet post. The space is there to be used, so people who come in to form a community around the game shouldn't be looked down on for doing so. Community = more sales if you can form one at your business. I was a co-owner in a comic book store in CA for short period of time and we had small card tournaments and gaming nights. Sales around that time picked up every time. People recommended us to their friends because of it. I know from experience having open gaming spaces = more sales. Period.

I got to the SBB about once a week and make occasional purchases and play occasional games, and I see this as a mixed blessing. Bad because it's going to cut down on gaming opportunities. What I will not miss is all the moms treating it like an all day daycare, with kids running around screaming all the time. I won't miss that at all.

 Janthkin wrote:

 brassangel wrote:
The stores just don't bring people in like they used to, and several of their Sales and Marketing higher-ups have stated they want to move more of the gaming itself into the FLGS.

Of course, as they move more and more items to "direct only," they're trying to move as much of the purchasing out of the FLGS as they can.

Yep, they want stores like mine to do all the work, quite happy to see us adding more tables and hours. To reward us, they have taken away about 40% of the items we can carry.

Fething strange how my GW sales have gone down by over 40% when i have 40% less things to sell. I had to condense my GW wall down by about 20 feet. Gale Force 9 got more space, and we brought in a big chunk of Bolt Action miniatures from Warlord Games.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
In retail, there are four main factors that determine whether or not you'll be successful. Rent, labor costs, sales and your margin on the sales.

-Training and attitude of staff.
-The amount of work put into the store, especially by the owner.
-Events and Advertising. (For a gaming store, events are advertising.)
-Decor/ambiance, 'feel' of the store as customers percieve it.
-location, parking, etc
Many of those things can be lumped into "sales", but it's a mistake to not address them singly and try to maximize the effect they can have on sales, and the overall health of the business.

At this time, nearly every hobby game retailer in the US is working on increasing their Organized Play, and trying to get more space for it. OP is the driving force behind many successful games. You only have to look at MTG to see a hugely successful example. For two decades i followed GW's lead in running events, leagues, classes, and having a good number of gaming tables available with good scenery. It worked. Sales increased dramatically.

Having gaming space in a store attracts more gamers, for longer hours. This is a major form of advertising for the store. And the more hours a gamer is in the store, the more they buy. Organized Play programs are a huge thing now in the success of many hobby/game stores.

GW has forgotten what they used to teach. They ignore the things that seem like common sense to the retailers they try to sell to. They try to convince us that what worked now doesn't work. What made us money doesn't make us money anymore. What kept customers loyal isn't important. Because they have convinced themselves of it, they feel the need to convince independent stores.

It's really sad to see what the company is doing to itself, and dragging us down with them. Very happy I am expanding into other games and product lines. GW is less of my sales each year, and I'm still trying hard to turn that around. My biggest hurdle to sell more GW is....GW itself.

nkelsch wrote:
GW has always said 2/3rds of their customers never play the game and only buy the models for collecting or display.

This is one of those stats I'd love to hear them justify, given the huge amounts of market research they do...

It also seems quite misleading - after all, someone buying the odd model every now and then to paint up because they like the sculpt, or plan on entering Golden Demon, is in no way going to measure up in terms of sales with someone putting together an army.

 Dysartes wrote:
This is one of those stats I'd love to hear them justify, given the huge amounts of market research they do...

It makes sense. Don't forget that the 2/3 includes the kids buying a single box of space marines before abandoning the hobby a week later, not just people who are regular customers but choose not to play the game.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
This is one of those stats I'd love to hear them justify, given the huge amounts of market research they do...

It makes sense. Don't forget that the 2/3 includes the kids buying a single box of space marines before abandoning the hobby a week later, not just people who are regular customers but choose not to play the game.

Good point, maybe they can say that as long as they don't try to say 2/3rds of sales are to people who never play. It's kinda bull in that people who buy 1 box and never actually enter the hobby shouldn't count, but technically they ARE customers.

You have to wonder why they don't get into the hobby properly if that is the case though, are GW doing a worse job of expanding the hobby than even the most jaded of us think, or is the business model of selling to 12 year olds just that bad?

 jonolikespie wrote:
You have to wonder why they don't get into the hobby properly if that is the case though, are GW doing a worse job of expanding the hobby than even the most jaded of us think, or is the business model of selling to 12 year olds just that bad?

People drop out of every hobby without getting very far. It's just inevitable, there will always be people who make the initial purchase but decide (for various reasons) that they aren't interested in it after all. It's just a bit more obvious in something like GW games, where there's a lot of up-front investment before you can start playing. If you buy a battleforce, assemble half of it, and throw it in the trash when you realize you aren't having any fun you're never going to play a game and you get to count in the 2/3.

 Dysartes wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
GW has always said 2/3rds of their customers never play the game and only buy the models for collecting or display.

This is one of those stats I'd love to hear them justify, given the huge amounts of market research they do...

It also seems quite misleading - after all, someone buying the odd model every now and then to paint up because they like the sculpt, or plan on entering Golden Demon, is in no way going to measure up in terms of sales with someone putting together an army.

There are people at the store I play at that I've never seen play, but are always hanging around converting models that wind up in the store's display case.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Empchild wrote:
Question BTW is the Kent store run by Jared Ramm?

Yeah, Jared still 'runs' the store, as he's the only employee left after the Kent store went down to a one man operation about a month ago.

 Dysartes wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
GW has always said 2/3rds of their customers never play the game and only buy the models for collecting or display.

This is one of those stats I'd love to hear them justify, given the huge amounts of market research they do...

It also seems quite misleading - after all, someone buying the odd model every now and then to paint up because they like the sculpt, or plan on entering Golden Demon, is in no way going to measure up in terms of sales with someone putting together an army.

There are people at the store I play at that I've never seen play, but are always hanging around converting models that wind up in the store's display case.

Yeah, I have to agree... I know these people exist, it is not far-fetched. Also, Wargaming is not at all a 'jump into the pool' hobby. It takes a good 6 months of prep work for many to even begin to dip their toe in and begin gaming. I know many people who buy models, build armies based upon what models they like and 'COULD' play if they wanted but don't, either due to time restrictions, or that they enjoy making models more than playing. Some of the new titans and larger kits seems to be an attempt to break into the modeler market like Gundam people who like to build large display tanks and robots and shelf display them.

While I am not sure 2/3rds of their customers never play the game, I do believe there is a sizeable group who never play a single GW game but do buy and collect large number of GW models. If GW could build a total business model of those people and dump the gamer, I believe they would in a heartbeat.

Mikhaila - "At this time, nearly every hobby game retailer in the US is working on increasing their Organized Play, and trying to get more space for it. OP is the driving force behind many successful games. You only have to look at MTG to see a hugely successful example. For two decades i followed GW's lead in running events, leagues, classes, and having a good number of gaming tables available with good scenery. It worked. Sales increased dramatically.

Having gaming space in a store attracts more gamers, for longer hours. This is a major form of advertising for the store. And the more hours a gamer is in the store, the more they buy. Organized Play programs are a huge thing now in the success of many hobby/game stores."

Warhammer isn't a game, it's a hobby that happens to have a game attached to it. You can't have a painting contest with Magic the Gathering cards, and while there are some collectors, the large majority are players.

Warhammer has numerous collectors who never play. Ever. We have no clue what the percentage might be, as they don't go to a store and hang around for 8 hours, three times a week. They walk in, make a purchase, leave and don't come back until they want a new model.

It's nice to have a store to go to that has tables to play, although there are numerous advantages to playing at home as well.

Golf is a hobby. Bowling is a hobby. There are numerous places you can buy equipment, that don't supply the venue to play. You have to go elsewhere to use the equipment you just bought. The large advantage with Warhammer, is that even if there isn't a game store with 20 tables nearby, there is always your house, or somebody elses house.

anchorbine wrote:
Mikhaila - "At this time, nearly every hobby game retailer in the US is working on increasing their Organized Play, and trying to get more space for it. OP is the driving force behind many successful games. You only have to look at MTG to see a hugely successful example. For two decades i followed GW's lead in running events, leagues, classes, and having a good number of gaming tables available with good scenery. It worked. Sales increased dramatically.

Having gaming space in a store attracts more gamers, for longer hours. This is a major form of advertising for the store. And the more hours a gamer is in the store, the more they buy. Organized Play programs are a huge thing now in the success of many hobby/game stores."

Warhammer isn't a game, it's a hobby that happens to have a game attached to it. You can't have a painting contest with Magic the Gathering cards, and while there are some collectors, the large majority are players.

Warhammer has numerous collectors who never play. Ever. We have no clue what the percentage might be, as they don't go to a store and hang around for 8 hours, three times a week. They walk in, make a purchase, leave and don't come back until they want a new model.

It's nice to have a store to go to that has tables to play, although there are numerous advantages to playing at home as well.

Golf is a hobby. Bowling is a hobby. There are numerous places you can buy equipment, that don't supply the venue to play. You have to go elsewhere to use the equipment you just bought. The large advantage with Warhammer, is that even if there isn't a game store with 20 tables nearby, there is always your house, or somebody elses house.

This reeks of apologist propaganda.

Warhammer is most certainly a GAME. Miniature wargaming is the hobby it falls under. "Warhammer" is not a hobby in itself, despite what GW wants people to think. Warhammer would be a hobby if no other 28mm miniatures games existed. But they do. GW is not the only name in wargaming.

And you cannot compare wargaming to golf and bowling. Both of those games require vast amounts of space, and massive overhead. Table space is not even close to comparable. Even then, both of those venues sell product.

If GW doesn't want to be in the LGS market and do what is required for an LGS to be successful, then they should just close all of their stores and leave the retailing to those with the inclination for it.

Depressing news, that was a great place to play. Won my first tournament there last year as well.

I'm curious to see how big of a remodel takes place, as the Bunker has had a couple of shapes over the past few years. But still in the end, it's definitely keeping me away. Still doing my playing at the Supermall.

From what I can tell, it's going to have a whopping 3 game tables. I'm wondering how many of those will be 4x4s.

 Aerethan wrote:



This reeks of apologist propaganda.

Warhammer is most certainly a GAME. Miniature wargaming is the hobby it falls under. "Warhammer" is not a hobby in itself, despite what GW wants people to think. Warhammer would be a hobby if no other 28mm miniatures games existed. But they do. GW is not the only name in wargaming.

And you cannot compare wargaming to golf and bowling. Both of those games require vast amounts of space, and massive overhead. Table space is not even close to comparable. Even then, both of those venues sell product.

If GW doesn't want to be in the LGS market and do what is required for an LGS to be successful, then they should just close all of their stores and leave the retailing to those with the inclination for it.

I guess I could call out that your post reeks of "typical GW gaming board hate" but I won't, as you are certainly entitled to voice your opinion, as am I.

They are doing exactly what is required to be a successful brick and mortar retailer, they are closing down their non-performing, oversized bottom line eating stores. I get that everybody is passionate about their hobby and feels GW "owes" them gaming space, but they don't. I could list dozens of formerly successful retailers of various products that are no longer in business. Bigger, better and shinier means nothing if the bottom line is bleeding. GW evaluated their game plan and decided that devoting retail space to gaming didn't give them the returns on the square footage they were paying for. I own and operate my own business. I understand all of the various expenses that come with running said business. Do you own and operate your own business? How many stores have you managed where you had access to the P & L's?

GameKeeper ran a successful hobby game type store for years, until Wizards of the Coast bought them out. Wizards broadened the store base, opened shinier and bigger stores, and then failed miserably, closing all of their stores. Hasbro bought Wizards. Magic thrives, with zero branded stores. GW is taking necessary steps to maintain some sort of brick and mortar presence. It may not be the presence you want, but it's a model that they think will ensure some level of profitability moving forward.

You can call it "apologist propaganda", I call it "business reality".

 Moopy wrote:
From what I can tell, it's going to have a whopping 3 game tables. I'm wondering how many of those will be 4x4s.

Are they getting rid of the original back room area as well? Before the big expansion, they had the front room of about 2-3 4x4s, and then a back room with about 8 standard tables. If they roll back to that, it will be alright and not overly crushing. Still sucky, but at least not AS sucky.

The Supermall has usually 4 regular tables for standard gaming, 1 4x4 for demos and 1 kinda in between table.

anchorbine wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:



This reeks of apologist propaganda.

Warhammer is most certainly a GAME. Miniature wargaming is the hobby it falls under. "Warhammer" is not a hobby in itself, despite what GW wants people to think. Warhammer would be a hobby if no other 28mm miniatures games existed. But they do. GW is not the only name in wargaming.

And you cannot compare wargaming to golf and bowling. Both of those games require vast amounts of space, and massive overhead. Table space is not even close to comparable. Even then, both of those venues sell product.

If GW doesn't want to be in the LGS market and do what is required for an LGS to be successful, then they should just close all of their stores and leave the retailing to those with the inclination for it.

I guess I could call out that your post reeks of "typical GW gaming board hate" but I won't, as you are certainly entitled to voice your opinion, as am I.

They are doing exactly what is required to be a successful brick and mortar retailer, they are closing down their non-performing, oversized bottom line eating stores. I get that everybody is passionate about their hobby and feels GW "owes" them gaming space, but they don't. I could list dozens of formerly successful retailers of various products that are no longer in business. Bigger, better and shinier means nothing if the bottom line is bleeding. GW evaluated their game plan and decided that devoting retail space to gaming didn't give them the returns on the square footage they were paying for. I own and operate my own business. I understand all of the various expenses that come with running said business. Do you own and operate your own business? How many stores have you managed where you had access to the P & L's?

GameKeeper ran a successful hobby game type store for years, until Wizards of the Coast bought them out. Wizards broadened the store base, opened shinier and bigger stores, and then failed miserably, closing all of their stores. Hasbro bought Wizards. Magic thrives, with zero branded stores. GW is taking necessary steps to maintain some sort of brick and mortar presence. It may not be the presence you want, but it's a model that they think will ensure some level of profitability moving forward.

You can call it "apologist propaganda", I call it "business reality".

GW's very store system is what is is failing them. Name a single independent LGS that sells ONLY GW product. There isn't a single one out there. They understand that a single game system alone cannot account for 100% of their revenue. For many, MTG is their bread and butter and allows them to keep the lights on, then the other product lines allow actual profit.

But why should MTG players buy at an LGS? As you said, it's a game that can be played at home just like Warhammer. And afterall, Target and Wal Mart sell packs for the same price if not less than LGS's. They buy there because that is a hub for local players to meet up for games. They spend their free time there, buying up soda and chips, getting random packs to pass the time or whatever. Keeping those players in the store exposes them to the OTHER products that they may end up buying.

Wargaming is a community hobby. It's not a single player game. Sure there are those who don't play, and they are by far the exception, not the rule. Community hobbyists need places to meet up and hang out, and spend their money.

GW's stores offer very little in the way of community support on the whole. Some stores are better, mine being included. But where GW fails in a market, others flourish because they understand the LGS retail market better than GW does.

The LA Bunker closed. In it's stead, a new LGS is popping up not far from where the GW store was to take it's place, and it will sell plenty of other products, and likely do well because GW left a massive void.

GW's retail strategy is inherently flawed.

 curran12 wrote:

 Moopy wrote:
From what I can tell, it's going to have a whopping 3 game tables. I'm wondering how many of those will be 4x4s.

Are they getting rid of the original back room area as well? Before the big expansion, they had the front room of about 2-3 4x4s, and then a back room with about 8 standard tables. If they roll back to that, it will be alright and not overly crushing. Still sucky, but at least not AS sucky.

Excellent question as I don't really know. I remember their stock room was in the back and so were the bathrooms and I REALLY don't think they're going to cut off access to the restrooms or change the position of them. I'm hoping they go back to their original rectangular space, but it sound smaller than that. : /

anchorbine wrote:
Mikhaila - "At this time, nearly every hobby game retailer in the US is working on increasing their Organized Play, and trying to get more space for it. OP is the driving force behind many successful games. You only have to look at MTG to see a hugely successful example. For two decades i followed GW's lead in running events, leagues, classes, and having a good number of gaming tables available with good scenery. It worked. Sales increased dramatically.

Having gaming space in a store attracts more gamers, for longer hours. This is a major form of advertising for the store. And the more hours a gamer is in the store, the more they buy. Organized Play programs are a huge thing now in the success of many hobby/game stores."

Warhammer isn't a game, it's a hobby that happens to have a game attached to it. You can't have a painting contest with Magic the Gathering cards, and while there are some collectors, the large majority are players.

Warhammer has numerous collectors who never play. Ever. We have no clue what the percentage might be, as they don't go to a store and hang around for 8 hours, three times a week. They walk in, make a purchase, leave and don't come back until they want a new model.

It's nice to have a store to go to that has tables to play, although there are numerous advantages to playing at home as well.

Golf is a hobby. Bowling is a hobby. There are numerous places you can buy equipment, that don't supply the venue to play. You have to go elsewhere to use the equipment you just bought. The large advantage with Warhammer, is that even if there isn't a game store with 20 tables nearby, there is always your house, or somebody elses house.

Warhammer is a game associated with the wargaming hobby. It is not any different then any of the other hundreds of games out there ready to get your money. Your play on words is noted, but unneeded.

The difference is in the collective mentality of nongaming CEO/ bean counters and company in trying to squeeze blood from a stone and then P/O ing the consumer base by questionable business practices.This is the same company that pulled out finecrap and directly shoved it to us for no other reason then they could, then when it blew up in their faces they silently changed alternative.

GW started out a wargaming gaming company and then regressed to a useless business conglomerate with such a questionable overhead.. The fact that they have decided almost yearly to give themselves a raise on the backs of fans and satellite stores speaks volumes to the mentality of entitlement.

Combine that with a "yearly price hike/ gouge", and it only stands to reason why they are opening and closing stores, gaming centers, hobby stores, or whatever they want to call them.

Gaming stores are no big deal. It takes a solid product, a good audience with cash to spend, and a desire to play a game. The other stuff is window dressing with a solid bunch of parasites gouging the heck out of the store owner.

The issue can go directly to discussion of the whopping one or two distributors that have developed the monopoly on game stores, the other is the pricing, then the third is the overinflated value of the products being sold. Wiz-kids, FF, GW, PP- I'm looking at you for that reason alone why a POS prepainted or soft plastic game piece with the same quality as a .25 cent gumball machine crackerjack ring.

You'll quickly snatch it up though to the tune of 15-20 bucks.

 Moopy wrote:

Excellent question as I don't really know. I remember their stock room was in the back and so were the bathrooms and I REALLY don't think they're going to cut off access to the restrooms or change the position of them. I'm hoping they go back to their original rectangular space, but it sound smaller than that. : /

From a sheer physical standpoint, the space is very awkwardly shaped. The original layout was a long, rather narrow rectangle all the way to the back of the building. I would be surprised if they lose that back area since it isn't something that can easily be put to use for any neighboring business.

 curran12 wrote:

 Moopy wrote:
From what I can tell, it's going to have a whopping 3 game tables. I'm wondering how many of those will be 4x4s.

Are they getting rid of the original back room area as well? Before the big expansion, they had the front room of about 2-3 4x4s, and then a back room with about 8 standard tables. If they roll back to that, it will be alright and not overly crushing. Still sucky, but at least not AS sucky.

The Supermall has usually 4 regular tables for standard gaming, 1 4x4 for demos and 1 kinda in between table.

I would hope so. They might be able to even have some tournaments once in a while if they had the back area. From the sound of the message though, it sounds like it will only be the front room, which is disappointing.

That was the only store I played 40k at. I had played there since 4th edition. Guess I will try and see if there is a good 40k community at Games and Gizmos then.

 curran12 wrote:

 Moopy wrote:

Excellent question as I don't really know. I remember their stock room was in the back and so were the bathrooms and I REALLY don't think they're going to cut off access to the restrooms or change the position of them. I'm hoping they go back to their original rectangular space, but it sound smaller than that. : /

From a sheer physical standpoint, the space is very awkwardly shaped. The original layout was a long, rather narrow rectangle all the way to the back of the building. I would be surprised if they lose that back area since it isn't something that can easily be put to use for any neighboring business.

I spoke with one of the guys that works there and was told that they're putting up a wall where the arch is. Everything past that will be converted to storage until the lease is up.

The Supermall is still pretty solid for gaming, at least when I go there. What I'd really like is something to really invigorate the Fantasy/40k at Card Kingdom, as I've had terrible luck finding games there on a regular basis.

 undertow wrote:

 curran12 wrote:

 Moopy wrote:

Excellent question as I don't really know. I remember their stock room was in the back and so were the bathrooms and I REALLY don't think they're going to cut off access to the restrooms or change the position of them. I'm hoping they go back to their original rectangular space, but it sound smaller than that. : /

From a sheer physical standpoint, the space is very awkwardly shaped. The original layout was a long, rather narrow rectangle all the way to the back of the building. I would be surprised if they lose that back area since it isn't something that can easily be put to use for any neighboring business.

I spoke with one of the guys that works there and was told that they're putting up a wall where the arch is. Everything past that will be converted to storage until the lease is up.

Ug. So, smaller tables.

 undertow wrote:

I spoke with one of the guys that works there and was told that they're putting up a wall where the arch is. Everything past that will be converted to storage until the lease is up.

And it looks like I'm done with the Bunker.

Good times, but no longer for me.

Pretty much. I'd go there to get some Black Library books and the occasional direct release if I don't want to pay shipping. Pretty much all other purchases are going to Games & Gizmoes or WarStore.

How is Games and Gizmos for pickup games anyway?

When I worked there we had 4 shelves in the back and a small table that was namely for us to eat lunch at (and a microwave). 99.9% of the inventory is loaded directly to the shelves as there was seldom ever "stock" in the stock room.

 brassangel wrote:
They are minimizing their store presence everywhere, and not because they are struggling financially. GW as a whole, that is. The stores just don't bring people in like they used to, and several of their Sales and Marketing higher-ups have stated they want to move more of the gaming itself into the FLGS. Their own store fronts will be introductory, educational, and nothing more. This allows them to devote more resources to the online and eContent, as well as pumping the releases out every other month for each system. The tournament organizers, FLGS campaigns, and gaming clubs will drive the hobby.

Ummmm....from where I am sitting GW is doing plenty to alienate the LGSs as well. Offering more and more products direct purchase only, suddenly limiting print runs of books and not delivering ordered product to stores with customers that want them, generally doing everything they can to push people away from any place with a discount or that would keep GW from getting 100% of the sales profits from products. Meanwhile they are chopping down their stores to one person stores where the hours are so pointless they may as well close the store entirely. A few years ago my local GW store moved from a local mall, with typcial 10am-9pm hours Monday through Saturday and 12pm-6pm on Sunday with about 8 fullsized tables to a barely half wide store in a strip mall with the store barely open 5 hours each day, maybe 8 hours on Saturday. The mall location was also easily accessible from a lot of highways making it easier to get to for someone like me who was coming a distance to go, while the new location is buried in an urban/suburban crossover zone with so much traffic it is insane. It started taking me twice as long to get there *and* half the times I tried to go to the new location the store was closed, first because I didn't expect the store to be closed at 1:30pm on an afternoon, and other times because the single employee was sick and couldn't open the store. I stopped bothering because the trip was so irritating and made more so but not knowing if the store would even be open when I got there.

Riiiight. Has nothing to do with the fact that people don't support the stores either; they go to the shop their buddy owns, or shop at a no-service online discount retailer. GW is still growing and making money, but the Bunkers themselves are just a sieve.

Growing? Really? GW is doing the opposite of growing. They are seeing growing profits, yes, but only because they keep raising prices on consistently falling sales volumes. Eventually they won't be able to make the prices high enough to cover the decreased sales and still have any sales volume at all. That is not growth. That is a death spiral that they really need to fix.

Skriker

 curran12 wrote:
How is Games and Gizmos for pickup games anyway?

There's (currently) not a lot of people hanging around looking for games, but if you go with a friend you'll have a great time. Now that the Bunker's dying, the amount of 40kers might go up. Call a head because on their D&D night and MTG night, they're packed to the rim and you won't find play space.

anchorbine wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:



This reeks of apologist propaganda.

Warhammer is most certainly a GAME. Miniature wargaming is the hobby it falls under. "Warhammer" is not a hobby in itself, despite what GW wants people to think. Warhammer would be a hobby if no other 28mm miniatures games existed. But they do. GW is not the only name in wargaming.

And you cannot compare wargaming to golf and bowling. Both of those games require vast amounts of space, and massive overhead. Table space is not even close to comparable. Even then, both of those venues sell product.

If GW doesn't want to be in the LGS market and do what is required for an LGS to be successful, then they should just close all of their stores and leave the retailing to those with the inclination for it.

I guess I could call out that your post reeks of "typical GW gaming board hate" but I won't, as you are certainly entitled to voice your opinion, as am I.

They are doing exactly what is required to be a successful brick and mortar retailer, they are closing down their non-performing, oversized bottom line eating stores. I get that everybody is passionate about their hobby and feels GW "owes" them gaming space, but they don't. I could list dozens of formerly successful retailers of various products that are no longer in business. Bigger, better and shinier means nothing if the bottom line is bleeding. GW evaluated their game plan and decided that devoting retail space to gaming didn't give them the returns on the square footage they were paying for. I own and operate my own business. I understand all of the various expenses that come with running said business. Do you own and operate your own business? How many stores have you managed where you had access to the P & L's?

GameKeeper ran a successful hobby game type store for years, until Wizards of the Coast bought them out. Wizards broadened the store base, opened shinier and bigger stores, and then failed miserably, closing all of their stores. Hasbro bought Wizards. Magic thrives, with zero branded stores. GW is taking necessary steps to maintain some sort of brick and mortar presence. It may not be the presence you want, but it's a model that they think will ensure some level of profitability moving forward.

You can call it "apologist propaganda", I call it "business reality".

Wizards sunk their bottom line not with square feet, but in what malls those square feet were placed (a+ Malls vs Shopping centers), and how their shelf space was used (LANs vs actual product).

Gamers don't mind going out of the way to game. Get in a centralized location, but a little off the beaten path, and get good signage. The lower rental will allow for table space. Table space builds a community; which brings more custom to your shop.

The one man store i went to regularly is supposed to close at the end of July. I now will have to make an extra 30min drive to the Chicago bunker as the next closest place. But then again many people i now have been talking about starting a game club.

mr.man_lightning wrote:
The one man store i went to regularly is supposed to close at the end of July. I now will have to make an extra 30min drive to the Chicago bunker as the next closest place. But then again many people i now have been talking about starting a game club.

I give it 6 months before the Chicago Bunker is closed as well, seeing as that was about how long between the 2 West coast ones closing.

 Aerethan wrote:

mr.man_lightning wrote:
The one man store i went to regularly is supposed to close at the end of July. I now will have to make an extra 30min drive to the Chicago bunker as the next closest place. But then again many people i now have been talking about starting a game club.

I give it 6 months before the Chicago Bunker is closed as well, seeing as that was about how long between the 2 West coast ones closing.

Doubt it because that has been their highest grossing store in the U.S for more years then I can count.

Well i always tried to stop in there when i was passing through the area and hung out for a bit (i'm in N Idaho, so not my home turf)

 Empchild wrote:


When I worked there in 06-07 our hours were
Mondays: closed
Tues-Sat:12-9
Sunday: 12-6

Be mindful I had to be there by 11am to prep the store and generally left around 930pm. We had a 1 hour lunch break and that was it and if we were over our weekly time then our Regional MGR would fix the hours so we weren't. Like I said worst job I ever had was working at the Seattle Battle Bunker. OOOOH I forgot we were encouraged to play games with customers but we were forced to clock out to do so as the Regional didn't want us wasting the companies time (his words).

That's pretty nuts (and of course, as you and others have pointed out--doesn't adhere to labor law).


As Mik pointed out, I thought one of the golden rules of sales was to keep them around your product for as long as possible--as the more they stay--the more likely they are to buy. I don't see how limiting your customers chance of frequenting your store--with the advent of online sales is a good thing.

Unless of course, their path is to freeze out retailers all together--and move to direct only on all their products.

I wasn't aware of it but I guess there used to be a Games Workshop store in a strip mall about 5 minutes away from Pegasus Hobbies in Southern California which is pretty close to where I live.

The signs were still up the last time I drove past it. I'm assuming this was something recent? It must not have been in business long as the shopping center itself isn't more than a few years old at this point.

Come to think of it I haven't even seen a GW store in my neck of the woods since the one at the Ontario Mils closed years ago.

I would love to go to one just for curiosity's sake. I can't help but imagine it looking like a dealer's booth at a con or something the way you guys describe these one man shops.

They don't want people hanging out in the stores, distracting the sales rep from buying customers.

I don't think that the way to go, myself, but...

 Moopy wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
How is Games and Gizmos for pickup games anyway?

There's (currently) not a lot of people hanging around looking for games, but if you go with a friend you'll have a great time. Now that the Bunker's dying, the amount of 40kers might go up. Call a head because on their D&D night and MTG night, they're packed to the rim and you won't find play space.

I am going there for my games now and I am sure that the 40k players they have there will increase. I live too far away from card kingdom for it to be worth the trip.

We (the now displaced bunker players) should try and organize ourselves around either G&G or Card Kingdom to keep the community going. Who knows, maybe we could run tournaments. I have always wanted to try.

Come Play at MuGu games in Everett WA guys Monthly tourneys for 40k with 100% going to prize support 20% off all minis!!!! Soon with a new location doubling play space! Tons of warmachine events and stock at 20% off.

Durring football season they have big screen TV's so you can watch the game and play 40K a great Sunday!!!

 MDizzle wrote:
Come Play at MuGu games in Everett WA guys Monthly tourneys for 40k with 100% going to prize support 20% off all minis!!!! Soon with a new location doubling play space! Tons of warmachine events and stock at 20% off.

Durring football season they have big screen TV's so you can watch the game and play 40K a great Sunday!!!

For those of us south of lake washington, that is one hell of a drive for 40k.

It's Better than nothing just come up for tourneys guaranteed 3 games of 40k!

 Happygrunt wrote:


We (the now displaced bunker players) should try and organize ourselves around either G&G or Card Kingdom to keep the community going. Who knows, maybe we could run tournaments. I have always wanted to try.

Agreed!

MDizzle wrote: It's Better than nothing just come up for tourneys guaranteed 3 games of 40k!

MDizzle wrote: It's Better than nothing just come up for tourneys guaranteed 3 games of 40k!

I might check it out. I guess it seems far because I was less than 10 minutes from the bunker. The times they are a changing.

Moopy wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:


We (the now displaced bunker players) should try and organize ourselves around either G&G or Card Kingdom to keep the community going. Who knows, maybe we could run tournaments. I have always wanted to try.

Agreed!

Excellent! I know we have a few on dakka and the Facebook page for the bunker exploded after the announcement. I am sure we could get some semblance of a group going. I am thinking G&G will be the better choice as I believe they have more tables. We could set up a day for "open gaming" and give it a few shots. Maybe we would be able to talk the owner into a tournament eventually.

I don't see the appeal of a GW store, anyhow. Lots of independent stores have better play spaces, available stock, staff and hours.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Empchild wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:

mr.man_lightning wrote:
The one man store i went to regularly is supposed to close at the end of July. I now will have to make an extra 30min drive to the Chicago bunker as the next closest place. But then again many people i now have been talking about starting a game club.

I give it 6 months before the Chicago Bunker is closed as well, seeing as that was about how long between the 2 West coast ones closing.

Doubt it because that has been their highest grossing store in the U.S for more years then I can count.

The Chicago bunker is a shadow of it's former self, however. Nothing seems immune to the 'improvements' that corporate GW has been pushing through the past few years.

Seattle Battle Bunker players we have a Face book page called northwest wargamers it's a closed group so if you post 40k stuff it stays with in the group so you can hide purchases from your wife and still show us all your great paint jobs!

Northwest Wargamers is a great way to schedule games meet other players and hear about events.

As bunker players you know if you head down you will get a game of 40k at FLGS many game systems are played so this might not be the case.

This is why you should join northwest wargamers facebook page.

I find if I get up in the morning and post hey I want a game at this time someone will say sure I can be there.

Face book is a great tool for getting games in and not wasting your time.

I haven't been to the Seattle Bunker since 2009. It is a bit of a drive for me to get there. The location is in a bit of a high traffic area. People not from Washington wonder why it's called the Seattle Bunker when its across Lake Washington and in Bellevue. When I did go or drive by the bunker it did have quite a few people in it (somewhere between 4-15 customers).

Someone said it was terrible working there. I'm not surprised. The manager, when I was there, may have been nice to the customers but sure was quick to anger on his employees.

I'm not surprised GW is reducing the store tbh. Considering this is how they have been reducing costs over the years.

I don't know who was there before 2010 but James was manager in 2011-2012 and now Aric is manager and both are really good guys. Aric is staying on after the Bunker gets renovated.

I'll be heading over to Card Kingdom, though I will probably be transitioning to Warmachine.

Pretty much the only reason I was still playing 40k is because the bunker was close by. I hear the WM community is much more developed at Card Kingdom though.

Hospy wrote:
I'll be heading over to Card Kingdom, though I will probably be transitioning to Warmachine.

Pretty much the only reason I was still playing 40k is because the bunker was close by. I hear the WM community is much more developed at Card Kingdom though.

Well, considering the game designer for Warmachine Prime used to work at Games and Gizmos...

Didn't know that. I was told there's a fair number of PP employees that frequent Card Kingdom though.

Hospy wrote:
I'll be heading over to Card Kingdom, though I will probably be transitioning to Warmachine.

Pretty much the only reason I was still playing 40k is because the bunker was close by. I hear the WM community is much more developed at Card Kingdom though.

Still it's easy to get a table and no one cares what game you're going to play. Please dispossessed bunker goers head over there plus they are expanding to a full bar soon so what do you have to loose?

mr.man_lightning wrote:
The one man store i went to regularly is supposed to close at the end of July. I now will have to make an extra 30min drive to the Chicago bunker as the next closest place. But then again many people i now have been talking about starting a game club.

Starting a game club with like minded players is one of the best bets these days. Not beholden to any particular store if you don't want to be and you can load up your house rules if you like. I pretty much play 40k at home nowadays with the "club" coming there to play. We all have a similar attitude towards the game: Winning is cool, but WAAC isn't really our bag. We also build a lot of theme forces centered around scenarios we play. Players also range from two players who each have a single army up to where I am with 9 armies or so...

Skriker

 Skriker wrote:

mr.man_lightning wrote:
The one man store i went to regularly is supposed to close at the end of July. I now will have to make an extra 30min drive to the Chicago bunker as the next closest place. But then again many people i now have been talking about starting a game club.

Starting a game club with like minded players is one of the best bets these days. Not beholden to any particular store if you don't want to be and you can load up your house rules if you like. I pretty much play 40k at home nowadays with the "club" coming there to play. We all have a similar attitude towards the game: Winning is cool, but WAAC isn't really our bag. We also build a lot of theme forces centered around scenarios we play. Players also range from two players who each have a single army up to where I am with 9 armies or so...

Skriker

So people can just show up at your house at any time of the day, to play a game with each other, regardless if you are home or not? That's pretty big of you to provide your fellow gamers with such a service!

PhantomViper wrote:
So people can just show up at your house at any time of the day, to play a game with each other, regardless if you are home or not? That's pretty big of you to provide your fellow gamers with such a service!

No we have regular "club" days to cover that, though if friends REALLY wanted to play I'd let them use the table. Some of them have keys anyway to care for my cats when I am away. No one in the club I wouldn't trust to be in my house if I wasn't there. I think the shortest amount of time I've known any of those in my 40k gaming circle these days is about 21 years, so my group is kind of a special case. Of course YMMV with your own club.

Skriker

Been going to that place since I started playing in 1997...I am really going to miss the place since it was so close to my house and the cost of gas is now so high. Somebody should start a kickstarter campaign to buy out game workshop (it is publicly traded so...) so it can be properly managed again.
Can somebody make a list of all the stores that hold 40k tournaments or have open tables in the Seattle area?

MuGu games in Everett WA has a single tourney and doubles tourney that swap back and forth monthly and 100% goes to prize support Best Gen, Paint and sports! 20% off all mini's. This month is going to be a doubles tourney 1250 shared force org no allies in your 1250. 3 games!

Lucinator wrote:
Been going to that place since I started playing in 1997...I am really going to miss the place since it was so close to my house and the cost of gas is now so high. Somebody should start a kickstarter campaign to buy out game workshop (it is publicly traded so...) so it can be properly managed again.
Can somebody make a list of all the stores that hold 40k tournaments or have open tables in the Seattle area?

Open up White Dwarf to the independent retailers section and pick up the phone, mate. Simple process.

Skriker

 MDizzle wrote:
MuGu games in Everett WA has a single tourney and doubles tourney that swap back and forth monthly and 100% goes to prize support Best Gen, Paint and sports! 20% off all mini's. This month is going to be a doubles tourney 1250 shared force org no allies in your 1250. 3 games!

That sounds amazing, but unfortunately Everett is just too far away to make it work for me. The additional time to get there and back would result in too much wife aggro.