I know, crazy idea but please, hear me out.

My idea is this... A 4 player game. Each player controls 1 model, I think roughly equivalent to IG veterans in carapace armour, but with 2 wounds, armed with a bolt pistol or lasgun, I'm not sure which. They start in a central area, 12" from the middle. The board resembles a deserted square in a hive city, with barricades between buildings, about 3 to 6 depending on how brave you are
Behind the barricades, the 'zombies' spawn. I'd say something along the lines of plague zombies, maybe without FNP to begin with. They move D6" toward the nearest visible player once they are over the barriers. Each barrier has 3HP. When a zombie reaches a barrier they roll 1D6, and on a 4+, 1HP is lost. The barriers self repair at the end of every round. D6+round number zombies spawn each round, roughly divided between the barriers, making things tougher as the rounds go on. The idea is simple; survive as many rounds as you can. That's the basic rules, if you guys receive it well, I have some more advanced rules such as upgrading/'purchasing' weapons, repairing barriers, and so on.

All c+c welcome, preferably no spamming/insulting etc etc etc. thanks for anyone who contributes

EDIT 28/08/13 so after much work (12 pages so far) this is the latest WIP version of the rules, with some minor changes and some acknowledgements added from the last one

This...actually sounds like fun. I do have one request. Can I swap my bolt pistol/lasgun and carapace armour for a chainsword and shotgun?

Sounds a bit boring tbh. You'd have to seriously snazz up the weapons with crazy rules to make the game more interactive and enjoyable

I like it. I'd star off with a Laspistol though to simulate that the CoD guys only start with a M1911.

I did something similar one a boattrip once on a trip to Warhamer world. Similar in that it had waves of hording models vs a small group of IG soldiers, in this case Nids.


In my game what I did was calculate the pts cost of the models' slain and gave that value to the IG as a "cash" of a kind which he could spend at the beginning of each round to bring in new models or weapons. Maybe something similar? For each zombie slain the character gets 4pts. At any point instead of doing X he may take Y at the pts listed?

@deadshot that was my next point if it was received. You received X pts per kill, if you got a precision shot to hit you score X+2. In the central building in the square is the "mystery box" where you'd roll on a 2D6 chart for a weapon, anything from a Sniper to a heavy flamer or assault cannon!
@happyjew I was going to make the shotgun and boltgun "wall guns" bought from one of the bits of debris for circa 5 pts. The chainsword... Y'know what it is a cow so have that to start.
@dakkamite, with the mystery box some weapons are available. I was thinking of being able to upgrade weapons too, not sure how though.

Thanks for the comments so far

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
@happyjew I was going to make the shotgun and boltgun "wall guns" bought from one of the bits of debris for circa 5 pts. The chainsword... Y'know what it is a cow so have that to start.r

To be fair I would have preferred a Chainfist, but that was pushing it a bit.

And it is not just a shotgun. It is a twelve-gauge double-barreled Remington. S-Mart's top of the line. You can find this in the sporting goods department. That's right, this sweet baby was made in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Retails for about a hundred and nine, ninety five. It's got a walnut stock, cobalt blue steel, and a hair trigger. That's right. Shop smart. Shop S-Mart. You got that?

Remington... Not the 870MCS from CoD I'm sure but for simplicity's sake just let it be a regular shotgun. And no, you cannot have a chainfist, tbh a power maul is the best cc weapon in this game, no int drop and more str.

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
Remington... Not the 870MCS from CoD I'm sure but for simplicity's sake just let it be a regular shotgun. And no, you cannot have a chainfist, tbh a power maul is the best cc weapon in this game, no int drop and more str.

Somebody needs to see The Evil Dead series...

Yeah yeah, back on topic methinks otherwise this thread WILL degenerate and fail. Have you got any good suggestions for improvements?

Great idea, though, you should make the guardsmen's wounds regenerate as well, maybe on equal number rounds, so round 2, 4 etc etc on a roll of 3+, basically so they have a chance of not being screwed down to one wound and be a sitting duck for the rest of the game.

Secondly, when a player is 'killed' they are one the floor for 2 turns before dying - armed with say a bolt pistol, they can move 1" per turn and fire as normal, if a team member reaches them within the 2 rounds, on a 2+ the model on the floor is revived with 1 wound. The guy on the floor can fire so they can clear some zombies around them making a daring rescue possible - best bit is, in the later rounds with loads of zombies, tough and self preserving decisions will be made by the other players.

I'd mix it in with a bit of a gears of war horde mode as well, on round 10 - maybe earlier if the guardsmen keep dying - have a boss round that scales up, spawn at first or plague bearers, ;ater working it's way up to a greater daemon.

Also, have another mystery box - one for armour upgrades, but have your guardsmen start with flak armour, let them buy carpace and power armour on wall location and in the mystery box is armour + stat upgrades, so power armour that confers +1 wound, or carpace armour that confers +1 WS and A. for a roll of 12 I'd go all out, Termie armour with option to trade to a storm bolter and powerfist (you may already have better weapons so wouldn't want to autotrade) and +1 stat on everything - so basically, a marine captain if you have full wounds already - only termie armour in it though.

Man, my imagination is going wild, I want to play this.

I like your style, I'll work them in but bear in mind these are guard not SM they can't wear termi or power armour. Artificer would work well, as would refractor fields.
I thought for boss rounds we would do like the classic h
"Hellhounds" with flesh hounds but they're too tough. Perhaps seekers of slaanesh? But I don't think bosses like greater daemons will work, too tough

If there was a decent way to upgrade equipment (perhaps a lot of things that do double wound or something great daemons might be ok.

I would love to see the zombie player get special units every so many waves like one that can infiltrate out of LOS, hounds, units that break barracdes etc. keeps the zombi player happy as its not just uuuuururrrrrrrrrrr brrrraaaiiiinnnn.

@desubot, I agree that something every 5 rounds would be good. Seekers, spawn, but not too mad or people won't want big rounds

Guardsmen can totally wear termie armour and power armour - like any human can, they just never get the chance too, far too valuable for the lowly grunts.

Anyway, I think you should embrace the mental randomness of zombies as it gets into the later rounds, and daemonic termi armour that improves all your stats is a totally viable thing to happen

I'm only suggesting it to make it more zombies like, as you will get the same sort of tactics as players in CoD - the mental head case charging around going mental all up in the zombies face - all the guardsmen should have relentless by the way, I think that would be necessary otherwise they would no doubt get overwhelmed by round 6 if they had to always stand still to shoot effectively - the camper trying to gain as many points from the safest location, the selfish player not interested in any other players other than turning them self into a one man army...

And Greater daemons at round 20 if a boss round was every 5 rounds is totally viable - if the players can nuke potentially 60 to 100+ zombies in the round before, then a greater daemon is totally within their skill set.

I thought marine armour needed marine biology or it would be too heavy? Anyway.... Relentless yes, particularly for BIG weapons, I'm picturing Harker types with heavy bolters.
Still unsure on the greater daemon because if you kill that what else is there after? I'll sleep on it

Ohhh, I read the rule wrong, I thought it was D6+round number per barrier, not total per round, should totally be per barrier mwahahaha.


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 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
I thought marine armour needed marine biology or it would be too heavy? Anyway.... Relentless yes, particularly for BIG weapons, I'm picturing Harker types with heavy bolters.
Still unsure on the greater daemon because if you kill that what else is there after? I'll sleep on it

You win the game, that's what happens. You'd end up with a leader board of players.

Man, GW needs to get on this, it's how the next Last Stand should be on the next DoW game - if it ever comes out mind.


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 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
I thought marine armour needed marine biology or it would be too heavy? Anyway.... Relentless yes, particularly for BIG weapons, I'm picturing Harker types with heavy bolters.
Still unsure on the greater daemon because if you kill that what else is there after? I'll sleep on it

There's loads of different types of power armour, you don't NEED a black carapace or be super human to operate it, sisters of battle are testament to that, as are some inquisitors and their henchmen if the inquisitor happens to be rich and well connected.

Well there is Civilian power armor. more similarly to sisters of battle power armor.
so PA would be possible.

Remember GW are useless so that won't happen. I was hoping for an endless/min 100 round game to give the idea of insurmountable odds for these guardsmen stuck in hell.
On another note, is it possible to work in the perk machines?

What if say the guardsmen could unlock arenas with cash collected from zombies, thus unlocking more wall weapons, more zombie spawn points, and more mystery boxes? That way if you wanted to, you could make an entire gauntlet of traps, doors, spawn points, etc. using a whole 6x4 board, or maybe an 8x4, that would be some crazy stuff.


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Im probably going to playtest this with my brother here at home and see how it works out. This certainly does sound interesting. What shall it be named?

Zone Mortalis board.... God that would be fun. I like the idea of multiple arenas but if the map gets too big and the guard get split up, they're dead especially in the boss levels. However, 2 or 3 with things like flames of hot shot las guns on the wall would be enjoyable, great idea.
As for a name.... I have got no idea whatsoever.... Anyone got a psychic line to the Emperor? Or failing that Jervis and Rick at GW?


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And let us know how the game goes, considering this was an idea with a couple of mates in a particularly boring lesson of double chemistry I'm amazed its been at least run with

I don't think they would get split up, unlocked rooms mean better weapons, you're going to need more than a shotgun to take down the boss rounds.

People will move towards the best weapons and if they don't well, they're idiots who have cost their mates the game.

What you should do with your friends is if you have enough to have 2 x 4 man teams and leader board it, or if you have 4 then each person controls 2 guardsmen, get some competition on the go haha!

Maybe you could also have teleportation modules in it to potentially get your team out of a bind if they get cornered, if you have ever played Cluedo with the secret passages you would know what I mean, at one corner in the room you can activate a teleporter if you stay on it for more than 2 in round turns and pass an initiative test then every team member within 4 inches teleports to point B and to combat abuse of it, it's a one shot thing, once you've used it then that's it, no more at all.

Another idea to have is to have a mystery box that unlocks psychic powers but that may start getting tooo crazy.

Lastly, I wouldn't discount granting your guardsmen roles at the start of the game - in the vein of most games -

The Soldier/Tank - Better stats and more damage taking ability, 3 wounds, better armour, better melee maybe?
Medic - the only guy that can revive the grounded guys - grants FNP to team mates within 6 inches
Engineer/heavy - can set up a limited ammo(only works for 2 rounds maybe?) sentry gun - roll for the gun, heavy flamers, heavy bolters, assault cannons etc etc.
Scout - faster movement, hit and run maybe?

Those could use some work maybe and I know it's getting away from the pure idea of the game but it opens more possibilities yet could make it simpler by not having to keep track of all the stat/perk upgrades and would encourage team work - no one is going to be want to be that far away from the medic really.

The teleporter is good, don't make it a one off, maybe it shuts down for 2 or 3 rounds.
I don't think classes would be a good idea, everyone WON'T want to be medic because it ramps up the pressure on that one player, and everyone would want to be soldier or engineer as they are the killiest.
I think the team game would be better suited as a supplement, sort of like the 'grief' mode from CoD
Psychic box... No. Just no. Too crazy even for zombies

If you're going to make it re-usable, have it in the center of the board and make it random, roll 3D6 and a scatter dice, you move that many inches in that distance, it would be a total desperation move, the models wouldn't misshap as it wouldn't be deepstrike, but it could mean you totally end up going straight into the horde haha! For the sake of terrain, you would always move far enough so you don't land on it.

Oh, weapon to add into the mystery box - a demo charge! BOOM!

Instead of Daemon Princes, just give the zombies some kind of boost every ten rounds. +1 T, then FNP, then a 6+ invuln, Shrouded, +1 T again...

Perhaps grenade launcher would be better? But I suppose a demo charge wouldn't be sooooo bad....
Speaking of grenades, I think each guardsman should carry frag and krak grenades, 3 of each that replenish at the end of the round

Demo charge is a one shot weapon though, that sort of counteracts it's killyness as you're going to have to then go get yourself a new gun straight after.

Or it doesn't replace your gun, it just becomes a 1 shot special grenade.

It couldn't replace your gun for sure, otherwise said guardsman is very dead
@waaaghpower, I would agree to that instead of bosses, though the odd special round is still fun imo

If it is only 1 model per player, you could set it up so that once a player has been killed, his undead model returns back into play on the opposite team.

This way all the players could remain playing in the game till the end.

Undead player models could have pumped stats or retain their protective equipment/CC weapons to add more pressure on the defenders - hopefully making the games shorter so there can be many games and a fast turn around of survivors/zombie players.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
If it is only 1 model per player, you could set it up so that once a player has been killed, his undead model returns back into play on the opposite team.

This way all the players could remain playing in the game till the end.

Undead player models could have pumped stats or retain their protective equipment/CC weapons to add more pressure on the defenders - hopefully making the games shorter so there can be many games and a fast turn around of survivors/zombie players.

I like that, probably keep the armour and give them 2 cc weapons. Maybe roll a D6 each turn, on a 6 they move 2D6" instead of 1D6", and gain furious charge as bloodlust mixed with anger at being allowed to die by their teammates surfaces, but on a 1 they gain some semblance of humanity briefly and attack the nearest zombie instead, if they die them they stay dead if they live they revert to zombie for the next turn?

Sounds pretty good actually. Maybe not a game you'd play regularly like you would with normal 40k, but it'd be a fun scenario to play every now and again.

Maybe have "weapon boxes" littered around. You'd start with say, a Laspistol/Lasgun. Have a GM note what weapons (i.e. Shotgun, Plasma Gun) are in what boxes and that's another, fun element added to the game.

We already have a random weapon box so having fixed and known weapon points would be better IMO. You can try it out though

I like that, probably keep the armour and give them 2 cc weapons. Maybe roll a D6 each turn, on a 6 they move 2D6" instead of 1D6", and gain furious charge as bloodlust mixed with anger at being allowed to die by their teammates surfaces, but on a 1 they gain some semblance of humanity briefly and attack the nearest zombie instead, if they die them they stay dead if they live they revert to zombie for the next turn?

I would leave the rules totally up to you. It depends on how complicated you want the game to be.

Personally I'd try and keep a game like this as fast and simple as possible. If a player dies I would allow him to continuously spawn fro the table edge, even if his zombie form dies. This would keep everyone interested, and would also make the odds against the survivors snowball against them over time, making the game faster.

Come up with some fluff about it being a nurgle plague, but those who survived the initial outbreak of the disease are marked by nurgle to become immortal daemon spawn when they die for not accepting his gift? Or something similarly fluffy that would explain why the player 'undead' models may respawn.

That's very cool and tbh the game does have to be fast and frantic to prevent the survivors getting time to plan, when grandfather nurgle sends his plagues down they can destroy worlds in a few days and any who got away with it would be constantly on the back foot.
Don't suppose anyone has a cool name for when I write up the first rules and put them on here?

I have an idea about upgrades but not sure if its already been talked about. Anyway, after each wave the players can upgrade weapons they really like, or armor they like by going to a shop.

I know im getting ahead but the game shouldnt just be restricted to zombies, how bout genestealers? or orks? just a thought


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Also im playing a quick mock up so ill get back to this when im done with a few waves

A shop isn't quite what I had in mind, otherwise it gives the players far more control over their fate instead of relying on chance or luck.
As for other races... Maybe, I'm not sure. Orks are the natural progression if someone wanted to increase difficulty. I'll see what everyone else thinks too.
Let us know how the mock up goes, best way to learn is to play

All this sounds really cool. I've done something similar with SM scouts and Orks once and it worked quite well.
While reading the previous posts I had an idea for a name: 'Nurgle's playground'. Basically to show that the guardsmen don't have a chance to win (i.e. endless mode) and Nurgle/his zomies are just toying with them. Maybe not the greatest name, but I think something along these lines could work.

This is very similar to something ive tried in the past, and combining it with CoD zombie-esque boxes and upgrades is a brilliant idea. Im gonna have a go at putting something together!

I might be a GM and instigate random events and occasionally harder foes.

My turns happen simultaneously at each phase. So zombies and humans both move, then shoot, then assault. Weapon buys and perk buys are done in the movement phase. this makes the game feel faster and more frantic, and the players can react more easily to the zombies movements.

In my version each zombie works as an individual unit, but also as a larger group in some ways. For example, in CC, you only have to kill the zombies in b2b contact to end the cc. Zombies do not pile in, theyre too slow for that. They are I2 for the purposes of attacking order.

You can shoot an any zombie you like, and the first shot will always hit them first. Any further shots from your weapons hit the zombies nearest to the (re)dead one

So for an assault 2 weapon, shot 1 might kill the target zombie, then shot 2 will hit the next nearest to that target, and hopefully kill them too.

Zombies are worth 2 points for a kill.

Zombies will be T3, S3, 1W, 1A (no charge bonus), 6+ Save. May get FNP in later rounds. They will always move 6" towards the nearest human, and move 3" in the shooting phase, and all the zombies (1 dice for all on the board) move D3" in the assault phase if they cannot assault. For assault, all zombies within 8" of a human must assault the nearest. For that group of X number of zobies they roll 3D6 and take the 2 lowest results for their charge range. All zombies move that distance even if they cannot make it into b2b.

All players have BS4, 6's to hit give +1 points if it kills. Humans move 6" in the movement phase. In the shooting phase they can move 3" and shoot, or 6" and not shoot. In the assault phase they can move 3" if they do not assault.

Players can fire at zombies locked in combat with another player, but on a roll of 1 to hit, the shot hits the player, not the target zombie.

Im also thinking of making each weapon (except the starting lasguns) only have around X number of turns worth of ammunition, so that players have to think about that too (then go back and buy more for a couple of points, or wait for ammo drops on zombies) Bolters might have 10-15 turns of ammo, but a GL may only have 8 for example.

Im thinking some fixed weapon points would be good, at various prices depending on the weapon. Players start with Lasguns. You can swap you weapons for a CC and pistol if you get that combo in the box (it will have combos of bolt and pulse pistols with CC weps and maybe power swords/mauls) Bolters, shotguns, snipers, hot shot lasguns and the like would be at fixed locations, with heavier weapons in the random box (flamers, heavy flamers, assault cannons/heavy bolters, GL's etc, also a good chance of a normal weapon, or better versions of normal guns, such as Assault 2 bolters)

As an idea for Perks (lost if player goes down):
Fleeta: 2 inches extra movement per turn, 'hit and run', Fleet.
Zerker'Up: +2A and FNP
Vindicola: BS5, and 6's to hit give +2 points for each kill.
Ogrynade: +1T and +1W. FNP (6+)

The map will be small to begin with, but areas can be unlocked by spending points to make them accessible. Zombies will spawn from predetermined locations, not all of which will be obvious.
Initial zombie numbers are low, like CoD, so that players can explore and get to grips with the game, and build up some points.



Most of this is WIP, but my little playtest (with much fewer rules) did work ok.

I did a zombies game similar to this which worked really well. I had random weapon box (4D6), random CC weapon box (2D6), different types of zombies, random perk machine (D6), random weapon upgrade (D6), weapons cache, supply cache (armour, jump packs etc.), explosives cache, support cache (able to call down allies for one round).
The points system I did to encourage CC - 10pts for a hit that fails to wound, 50pts for a wound which is then saved, and 100pts for an unsaved wound caused. Double points in CC.
Rather than start with 4 generic guys or classes, I allowed the survivor player to simply take 100pts, ignoring min unit sizes, of infantry models from any codex. This meant you could choose your starting equipment, or "class" for each model.
The Zombies player would act as GM, and wouldn't be trying to win, just be making it fun for everyone - randomly throwing in fun things like explosions, daemon princes, terminator zombies etc.
The game worked really well, it was quite slow to play but it was really tense, and very enjoyable both as GM/Zombies and Survivor. My main opponent and I occasionally play it if we get bored, and it's always interesting!

Thanks guys for the support, didn't realise everyone else had similar ideas but hey, great minds think alike i suppose.
@FlamestormA I like the name, sounds like a map name rather than a game type though.
@ HerbaciousT is 9+D3" is a little fast for brainless automatons IMO, and the targeting system seems a little weird, but the principle and statlines are good, and I love the perks!
@Tac_genius you possibly have too many boxes, after all guardsmen can't have jump packs and allies is a bit much for an endless survival. Also I think that it should be shooting not cc focused and as I may have said to @endlesswaltz earlier classes seems iffy but I'll bend to the will of the forum

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
Thanks guys for the support, didn't realise everyone else had similar ideas but hey, great minds think alike i suppose.
@ HerbaciousT is 9+D3" is a little fast for brainless automatons IMO, and the targeting system seems a little weird, but the principle and statlines are good, and I love the perks!

You are probably right on the movement front, it still needs refining. I wanted to make sure that everyone (the players) had space to move around and could escape sticky situations, but it wasnt too easy to completely outpace the zombies.
Dont forget, they can stumble quite fast in CoD!

When you reach round 15 or so yeah, early on you can out walk them rather than have to run to escape. A flat 6" or D6+3" maybe

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
When you reach round 15 or so yeah, early on you can out walk them rather than have to run to escape. A flat 6" or D6+3" maybe

Ok then how about 6" with D3" in the shooting phase, so its a shorter run move.

The players move 6", and can run D6" as normal in the shooting phase, or can elect to run D3" and fire their weapon at -2 to their BS. Sound better?

I think it might be better if the players were Space Marines. Guardsmen have the CoD vibe, but if they're going to be eventually running around with heavy weapons and getting better armour saves, it just makes sense.

They could start with no armour (could say black carapace gives them 6+). Meanwhile, depending on spawn rate of zombies, I can't imagine them lasting very long, especially in the beginning. With a four-man team armed with lasguns, the best they'll be able to do is kill eight zombies, maximum, and that's probably not going to happen. T4 means that they'll at least be more survivable.

Also, what about Fortifications? Like in Gears of War 3, in which the players can buy auto-turrets, manual turrets, barricades that slow enemies, decoys, etc. These can be upgraded by spending even more points, but also have their own health bars and can be destroyed. They can only be bought in specific locations, the players can't just decide to put turrets anywhere.

Just throwing it out there, but slowing barricades (razor wire, etc) could be treated as Difficult Terrain, and give anyone shooting at a zombie in it a BS bonus.

Not sure if this could work. It would require serious thinking as to how the maps are laid out.

You are probably right on the movement front, it still needs refining. I wanted to make sure that everyone (the players) had space to move around and could escape sticky situations, but it wasnt too easy to completely outpace the zombies.

In my eyes there are two ways to go about this.

i) Fast zombies - having basic zombies who are at least as fast as the players will be needed if you are using standard 40k shooting. With 6th edition shooting players will be able to move full distance then shoot full range or still rapid fire. This will let them kite slow zombies quite easy.

ii) Slow zombies - but bucket loads of them. If the zombies can be easily maneuvered around, then put more on the table, so many that the players will have a harder time using their high move speed. Finding the balance of the zombie characteristics is important here though, as a slight over buff will lead to serious problems as there will be so many units on the table.

@HerbaciousT, better
@Frozen Ocean, I played a test game using marines and the zombies didn't take one down until round 6 or so because of the armour and higher toughness. With guardsmen you're forced to think carefully about committing to 'gung-ho' manoeuvres that a SM wouldn't worry about half as much. I think turrets could work there is a precedent (once) on CoD for a turret gun, it would probably be a HB as that is the "typical" 40k turret gun IMO. There will be debris parts for gun purchases but I'm not sure how your idea about BS bonuses will work.


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On the movement thing, I think faster zombies that move 6" would be better because we don't want our boys horded out by round 3

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:

@Tac_genius you possibly have too many boxes, after all guardsmen can't have jump packs and allies is a bit much for an endless survival. Also I think that it should be shooting not cc focused and as I may have said to @endlesswaltz earlier classes seems iffy but I'll bend to the will of the forum

I did it so that the forces could be chosen from any codex. It worked well. I know it's not what you're going for, but I thought I'd offer up what we did so you could take a look. I wanted it to allow the Survival player to have more freedom pre-game. The reason I rewarded combat was to prevent the Survivors from just running away all the time, but the CC is riskier because you can be overwhelmed.

Ok it makes sense when you say it that way, thanks. It would work as a supplement or expansion for other races though.
Same thing on cc it's nice but as you say, not what I'm going for. If the rest of the forum want it cc focused I'll agree, but IMO I'd rather not, thanks though

Ok, my brother and i are done with the mock up round of the game. I say it was pretty sweet, we added profiles for zombies and humans, and making up rules and dynamic stuff like barriers. im pretty surprised actually.

it was fairly awesome, one the first wave i had ten zombies probably tougher than they were supposed be, advancing on the humans, 2 humans were "downed" and the other two finished off the rest and then revived their buddies. its probably a little early for 2 guys to be downed that early in the game but i say we are on the right track. Its a pretty solid start.

I have taken the initiative to write down most of the good ideas and rules being posted in this topic, ill link a word document tonight, i already have 3 pages down!


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ill give you a teaser:
3 base weapons:
auto pistol (las pistol): free, s 3, ap -, r8, assault 2
auto carbine (las Carbine): 5 points, s 3, ap -, r11, assault 4
auto gun (las gun): 10 points, s 3, ap 6, r14, rapid fire

human:
ws4, bs4, s3, t3, w2, i3, a3, ld6, sv4+
wargear: carapace, auto/las pistol, frag nades
special rules: Eternal warrior, preferred enemy (zombies), independant character, + 2 new rules

zombie
ws3, bs2, s3, t3, w1, i2, a3, ld9, sv6+
mutations: necrotic flesh/dead skin= 6+ save
special rules: feel no pain (6+), fear, zealot, slow and purposeful


And thats the base stuff, i haven't played a game with the special rules yet but the stat line is good imho, tell me what you guys think.

How could flamers be made not massively overpowered?

The stats and rules are good, though Ld7 on the humans would be better at least IMO, these guys are at least as brave as the regular guard. Thanks for writing this all down, saves me one hell of a job! But what does the are on the weapons mean?
@ocean, the short range means that if a zombie lives the human is in trouble from a charge, plus limiting the fuel like they did in space hulk would make you think twice about firing

oh, its supposed to be just a regular r, meaning range, fixed!

Ok cheers for clearing that up.
I was thinking for our little weapons cache (mystery box, I'm not mad about the rest but if others agree I'll run one) something on 3 or 4D6, I prefer 3 tbh. Triple 1 the box either self destructs or breaks down for the round or a few turns.
4 no weapon
5 shotgun
6 bolter
7 sniper rifle
8 flamer
9 grenade launcher (frag)
10 storm bolter
11 grenade launcher (both)
12 heavy stubber
13 plasma gun (instant death warrants high place IMO)
14 missile launcher
15 autocannon
16 HB
17 HF
18 assault cannon

I know some are unrealistic but hey, this is 40k zombies, anything is possible I suppose

Instant Death only matters when the target has more than one wound. Also, bear probability in mind - the most likely result on a 4d6 would be 14, with an 11.27% chance. On a 3d6, the most likely results are 10 and 11, at 12.5%.

It's also good for getting rid of a pesky FNP. Thanks for the math, any comments on changing the table?

Assign values to weapons and place them accordingly.

Here is a site that you can calculate values with. Just type "output 3d6" and click "calculate". Remember that the value of a weapon is not always readily apparent; a sniper rifle might seem good, for example, but is it really a good anti-horde weapon? I think the Holy Bolter should probably be the most common. Following the standard format of 40k, the lowest result (from rolling entirely 1s) should be a fail.

Are you keeping the FNP on the zombies? I would have thought it'd make them a bit too tough.

I'm unsure I'm sure some test games will clear it up. So if 3 is a fail, we're a weapon short, and the whole thing needs a re-order... Job for tomorrow methinks

Could go with 4d6? You could add other things for the remaining numbers, something like the Chaos Boon Table, or temporary powerups or something. You could do bolters with special ammo or combi-weapons, re-rolls, or melee weapons.

EDIT: Don't forget pistols. Inferno pistols, plasma pistols... What about xenos weapons?

EDIT2: It's my birthday!

For the table in the early rb i had role a d3 to see which table you role on then role a d6 for the weapon. oh and here is the early copy, and for the sake of a name i just plopped in "Swarm" it can be changed if you guys like

Rule wise What it has:
30 perk choices
Unit organization (squads and such)
profiles for humans/ survivors, and zombies & fast zombies
Currency
mystery boxes
unlockable areas

what it doesn't have:
movement
shooting
assault (but thats all pretty basic save the moving)
new weapon profiles just in case there might be changes
rules on barriers
stores or upgrades
boss profiles
pts cost for everything

OH Happy birthday!?

Thank you!

Having read parts of your document (it's too early in the morning to read the whole thing), I have one criticism, which is the means by which zombies earn points.

As the players improve they will be wounded less often. If the zombies only get points when the players are wounded, the game will eventually reach a point where the players have outgrown the foes they are fighting, and the zombies are no longer a match for them.

I think the zombies should get a set number of points for every wave, perhaps increased by the number of waves. It should get progressively more difficult!

ooh ok i here your point, I sorta went for a "work for points approach" with wounds, kills, and such. Maybe breaking down barricades could give points too? I dont know i wouldnt have a problem with zombies getting paid every so wave, but rushing to get wounds and breaking down fortifications would seem a lot more... uh gratifying?

It's a great starting point to build upon, your box is certainly better than mine. As with @ocean zombies earning points per wound saved or not will not be easy unless there are 5 zombies per player attacking, he can gun 2 down and chop up a 3rd, one will likely miss leaving one wound. I also think 5pts per zombie and 10pts bonus when the squad is wiped out, but make the doors and box a bit more expensive. You also haven't explained what the two other rules mean, and that is a LOT of perks IMO but hey, it's a fabulous start I'm not having a go at all

alongside the standard issue guns (las, plasma etc) you could have the weird and funny Wonder Weapons from that series included.

how some of them would work I am not sure. but to avoid abuse the more powerful ones could have a limited amount of shots
the thunder gun could be a much stronger then normal flamer template.
the lightning gun (I forget its name, its like the DG2 or something) could hit 1 target, roll D3 and jump to another target to repeat the process a few times up to X. (the game has it up to 10, world at war had the upgraded version kill 24)

and so on.

With the little ray gun being a super powered plasma pistol without the "blow up in your hands" part.

The thundergun as an OP flamer works. The DG2 is the wunderwaffe DG2, I do like that gun, probably it would arc on a 4+. The ray gun as an inferno pistol type would be good. The wave gun/zap gun idk, same with the VR11 and any others they made. Good suggestion

I made a lot of perks so that mostly the game can be different every time, and plus to give players more variety and possible strategy. There certainly is a lot but there are some that can be nixed, like getting rid of rage or others.

Points for zombies, What if zombies get some points every wave but get bonus points for wounds, destroyed barricades and/or kills? That seems like a lot of ways, so if you fail in one area you wont be screwed outright.

and have we decided on good movement distances?

I think a max of 20 and picking 1 every 5 rounds means that as the zombies improve the players can as well.
Re zombie pts, I think 15 for downing a player, a bonus 10 if they die. 5 pts for destroying a barrier. 5-10 pts per round/wave. Not sure what they'd do with them, maybe 30pts to upgrade a statistic on the zombies, 20 to summon special zombies instead of regular ones for a round?

that would be interesting, i like that idea about perk rewards. I also like that zombies could choose what they bring each wave, assuming they have points for specials and such.

If I remember right. The zombie maps always had doors you could "buy" your way through. which lead to making the map larger, make more wall weapons available, mystery box locations, and unfortunately more zombie spawn locations.

they never got more interesting besides "opening a door" (I will admit I never got to play the more recent ones, but I really want too)


for this 40k concept besides the standard doors (which could range from bulkheads to good old fashioned doors)I think it would be cool to have other versions like one version would be a broken down tank that smashes through a wall opening another chamber, or some other mechanical means of opening new areas, like swinging metal objects busting things down and more

some interesting ways of "opening up the map"
You could have the established "center" or beginning area. and have several pieces of terrain or "rooms" on the wayside (6 or 3 of them)
when you open a "door" you roll a D3 or D6 after assigning a number to the available terrain pieces and whichever one is selected its added to the "map"
zombie spawns are chosen in the new terrain and the gauntlet renews with a larger map which can get larger as the game progresses.

As for zombies spawning in distance spawns. im sure something could be worked out..

That's a little awkward if you open, say, the far left door and one halfway across the map opens with a horde between them and it. I think we're better off staying simply with opening doors, either though biometric scanning, placating machine spirits or overriding the locks. I like your idea it's just a bit complex if you need to activate a tank to destroy a door several turns walk away allowing zombies to flood through.
@wolfmerc, what sort of 'specials' would you recommend? I was thinking things like daemons, steeds of slaanesh, plaguebearers, etc

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
The thundergun as an OP flamer works. The DG2 is the wunderwaffe DG2, I do like that gun, probably it would arc on a 4+. The ray gun as an inferno pistol type would be good. The wave gun/zap gun idk, same with the VR11 and any others they made. Good suggestion

To my mind Wunderwaffe = scaled-down Tesla weapon.

Im thinking R:18" S:6 AP:- Assault 3, Arc (4+), Rending.
Every unit arc'd to takes D6 S4 hits

Excellent suggestion, works for me. Look out zombies. Have you got any suggestions for the other 'wonder weapons'?

If I have time tomorrow I can draw up some rooms and write up some box randomisation, I will create a modular system for creating maps from rooms, perhaps some premade maps as well.

Consider also, what if you used 12man killteams divvied up between players made out of basic troopers of any race that could be upgraded, or using generic infantry hq characters of up to 100pt (99 for orks, it stops warbosses from taking mega armour or bikes) rather than just troops choices, allow everyone in your gaming group to convert their own model, so you'd have maybe a librarian, a cadre fireblade, a farseer and a warboss clinging together for survival, you also would have something similar to classes more so if you allow boons to affect team members within ld", such as modifying the fireblade to allow any friendly player model to fire twice if it does not move. Allow wargear that is equipment ie the fireblade's markerlight, but replace the weapon with that races weakest, ie a pulse pistol in the case of the fireblade.

It could work, reminds me of one of the Dawn of War games. If you could do those rooms/maps I'd really appreciate it as I'm back to school soon and won't be able to devote as much time. I don't think 12 man teams would work, zombies is all about the many against the few, a max of 4 is likely enough. I'm not sure if HQs are too powerful though

Well if you're getting 1d6+round per barricade then you need to be as effective as possible, the first few waves are always easy though, when you get to wave 6 you may be only killing 4 per model (16) per shooting phase if everything goes well.
I'm assuming there will be a general zombie load using scatter to determine deployment so at least 28 zombies at round 6 if you have 3 barricades and 1 general load, each shot needs to count.

Also consider that with lethal characters you can have more lethal zombies, maybe with the ability to possibly get back up unless the to hit check is 6 (so basically fnp6+ except against precision shots, then you can make it fnp5+ in later rounds).

With 12 man killteams, I'm talking 12 bog standard marines, zombies would be 12+1d6 general deployment &1d6+round+set no./barricade
Sets are groups of 5 rounds, 4 standard and one boss
Or perhaps I should save it for my original killteam+ imperial zombies idea...

I wasn't going to do the 'general' thing tbh, I know that in CoD they can come out of the ground but at least early on it would be barriers only.
You raise good points about HQs allowing for tougher zombies, but bear in mind the weapons aren't getting any better only the WS and BS of the user, so it may backfire.
Your 12 man game is... Apocalyptic in scale, even by the standards of 40k, even in round 1 there would be 16-26 zombies, by round 6 it's 22-32. That's just mad, and throw in special rounds every 5 and I can't envision there being more than half of the survivors left by round 11

That's kinda the point, MADNESS, MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA... but I can just develop that in my own little corner

For the hero's and even for normal troopers you'd be buying better weapons

For the killteam+ imperial zombies I'm setting up specialist roles and abilities, wounds and a pre match non-standard loadout, but it's a lot of work for all the races since I don't know them all well

Very true, weapons are easy to buy of it goes the way I think it will. Perhaps that would be an apoc style supplement to the original rules set, because we have to make the game small number friendly too or beginners would literally be terrified

This map design should play off my skill set actually and on a tangent of the subject, would anyone be interested in working on redoing parts of the rulebook, just to shake things up? PM me if you'd like to talk, but know, I don't want to change everything, just add some fresh ideas.
Back on topic, how 3 dimensional can I be? How nuts should I go?

Hmmm.... If you look at CoD as a precedent, it's not very 'vertical' until this last DLC with a 1000ft robot!! I think as maps, a hab centre/square with buildings around it that you can access. Perhaps a manufactorum or medicae facility, perhaps you could activate machine spirits for turrets if you have the right perk or something. Maybe you could try a battleship like a strike cruiser, cramped corridors, zombie coming out of the walls and blocking the way to the command bridge

Right so, varying shapes, 3 levels max, coherent theme

Do we want objectives? Such as repair the generator to turn on the power to activate the lift for more guns?

Turning on power is a good idea, especially on the bigger maps with lots of gimmicks. Maybe one day we could work in 'Easter eggs' and missions, but how I ain't sure I need some help from the rest of the thread

Well we can't do Easter egg's the same way as videogames, as the player is already told everything that would be in the map, if there were a gm to control setup play and information then Easter eggs become much easier, oh wait, zombie player is gm, that way, they read maps and control info, problem solved

Grand. I leave the next part (the maps) to you, we can work on the rules here. Post each up as you finish, we can c+c them

 la'DunX wrote:
Right so, varying shapes, 3 levels max, coherent theme

Do we want objectives? Such as repair the generator to turn on the power to activate the lift for more guns?

I posted a copy of the rules section that i had worked on somwhere on page 2, you can make add ons to that if you wish and then you can just repost. That should save you some trouble.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Earlier from talk of special zombies: we can find ways to incorporate all kinds of nurgle models from the daemons release, zombies riding on flies ignoring some traps or barriers would be tougher in the later waves for example. Great unclean ones as bosses, heralds as mini bosses or some zombie humans come to mind. We just need profiles for them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maps: maybe for a test run we should actually replicate one of the cod zombie maps, since they were so successful, probably kino der toten from black ops 1 is the best choice: open, lots of weapons, lots of doors, lots of weapons. What could go wrong?

Wow, this Idea a really taking on a life of its own! I unfortunately can only offer moral support in saying that this amazing and you guys are doing a wonderful job bringing this to life. I did however have a idea for the name. It popped in my head reading through the proposed rules and the about how the guardsmen will eventually be overwhelmed, it may already be a Black Library book title but i thought that Fifteen Hours *the life expectancy of your average guardsman* really fit the bill what with a boss every 5 rounds and the ever increasing difficulty. Just my two cent though.

@merc good suggestions, I think replicating *a* map is a good suggestion especially. I think kino is a good one, its got a mix of everything, but if la'DunX has a 40k map as well I can play test both today after my exam results!
Re specials, I agree the nurgle range is a good start, plaguebearers to start with, perhaps a small number of beast or plague drones, herald, GUO. But... If they somehow kill the GUO, what happens? Are they airlifted/evacuated out? Does another Chaos god take an interest and wipe them off the world with lightning/fire etc? Or does nurgle just give up throwing powerful servants and keep chucking endless zombies interspersed with maybe plaguebearers?
@Ir0njack 15 hours is an IG book already.good idea though if you get any more please chip in, maybe even do some playtesting for us?

Well, I have a map, but only physical blueprints, the map is in fact inspired by the farm map in black ops 2 (wow you can just hear the Hollywood).

I have a wip version of the map, I just need a few measurements, but can you build the components for the map?

Perhaps the survivors should use a 3ap system? This would allow more flexibility in actions but the small scale will keep it manageable.

Also does nurgle have any quadrupeds?

Will submit modified rules (hero selection, survivor creation, starter weapons, ap system, traps, objective and environmental interaction & anything else that comes to mind)

Can you put up the blueprints so my friend and I can start testing it out?
An ap system is interesting but I'm not sure. And no, nurgle has no 4 leggers I'm afraid

Sorry, the soonest I can get the blueprints up is 14 hours, but I should have some more rules up in an hour or two

Ok that's fine. Well, we played it. Got to round 4, was rather slow maybe because we weren't 100% on rules, and because we used each zombie individually. Anyway, one survivor was wounded but the others were fine, ended up one had a HB and the other a HF that we switched for the meltagun. Overall not a bad start

how long do we think each gun will last?
I'm thinking in terms of rounds in magazine, fuel in tank, power in reserves, no. of explosives, etc.
1 (1-2)
Small arms:
1: Master-crafted Boltgun ()
2: Hot-shot lasgun ()
3: Flamer ()
4: AutoCarbine ()
5: Sniper rifle (5)
6: Shotgun (8)

2 (3-4)
Close Combat Weapons:
1: Combat Shield ()
2: Krak grenades (2)
3: Heavy chainsword ()
4: Master-crafted Chainsword ()
5: Power Sword ()
6: Power maul ()

3 (5-6)
Heavy Weapons:
1. Heavy Bolter ()
2. Lascannon ()
3. Demo charge (1)
4. Autocannon ()
5. Missile launcher ()
6. Melta gun ()

Seen as you brought those lists up...
The small arms list is pretty good but a bolter is better than shotgun or sniper itc. Just the order to change.
Krak grenades aren't really a cc weapon, perhaps a power axe would be more suitable, make krak a wall weapon
A demo charge is not a great choice seen as its gone in one go, again as a wall gun would be better. Also, the meltagun isn't a heavy weapon and tbh in scenarios like this would only be a little better than a bolt pistol. Maybe a HF/PC/LC would maybe be better. Just my thoughts

1 not my weapon list, I know nought of imperial weapons, save that mine are better XD
2 order doesn't matter unless we bring in modifiers, but that defeats most of what the random box is about
3 iirc krak grenades are used against vehicles in assault, melta weapons are high str and useful against bosses and I think a demo charge may be a good idea depending on what rules it uses, like if it is a remote detonated large blast marker that can also open new pathways by clearing rubble or destroying things

1 I never said it was, and agreed, tau weapons are better but I don't think tau would be daft enough to get caught in a zombie apocalypse... Only the guard
2 good point didn't think of that
3 there are no vehicles.... And a melta isn't "heavy" in any case, and against a regular zombie it's better to have the bolter or almost anything. The demo charge is also maybe iffy because of the one use factor, if you're out of ammo and you need a weapon, getting a barricade destroyer/one shot pie plate won't help for long

I think Tau might get caught in a zombpocalypse, but they make it a point not to let others get a hold of their tech, so tau and advanced races weapons won't be there.

I believe we should make a distinction between 1 and 2 handed weapons and give 4 slots, 1 slot equalling 1 hand, so you can have 2 weapon sets

I think the basic weapon should always become automatically available if your other weapons run out

also; the rules I promised are going to come the same time as the map, I'm making them amazing and pretty

Also also; I read through cdc, there are an imperial fethton of nurgley things, can we have them all? also methinks kroot hounds might make nice space zombie chicken dogs (now that's a mouthful)
___________________________________________________________________________________________

Wow it's late now. (1:30 am)
The Doc is 11 pages long now, it has a fully fleshed out structure that makes sense and decent flow, brace yourselves for super content influx tomorrow (10 hrs and counting)

I think 2 weapons and your starting pistol would be a safe bet, perhaps with a pistol they get +1A for 2 weapons.
As for kroot hounds as SZCD's I agree good idea. I don't know what this nurgle stuff you speak of is but if you have factored them into your rules (thanks very much for all your work btw!) then great.
I look forward to your rules almost as much as an Ogryn looks forward to his (its?) next meal

Not sure if this has been said or not but I suggest these improvements: the zombies gain fnp on wave 5, each zombie is worth 20 points killed, with this currency you should be able to buy weapons located at different areas for example a plasma gun is 200 points a flamer is 100 a heavy bolter is 500 points and they should be at different locations on the map. For a bit of a wackiness after wave 10 if you reach some awesome machine your character could transform into a space marine Sargent. Later in the match there could be a daemon wave like bloodletters or a hound wave like flesh hounds.

Re FNP, the play test game had FNP 6+ from the start, and it didn't get in the way too much, maybe at round 10 they'd become FNP 5+.
Re currency, those figures are reasonable, 5 kills for a flamer, 10 for a plasma 25 for a HB, it's not bad but maybe a teensy bit easy to gain the big guns, defeating the value of the mystery box.
I think your guardsman->SM sarge is a bit TOO wacky, I mean I think we have a perk system every 5 or 10 waves to buff the character, and the daemon rounds are every 5 or so.
Good suggestions though, just my opinions, thank you for contributing

Fair point. Maybe by wave 20 he could gain improved armour or even power armour. Who knows. Enjoy yourself!

I'm sure we'll work it out, thanks! When the new rules and maps come on here tomorrow we could use some playtesters. If you would, it would be a lot of help

Ill see if I can garner willing victims...eh I mean friends to test it out on.

Excellent, remember to c+c it so we can work out how to improve the game/map

Righto, we do have fnp and wall slots (where you spend credits on specific weapons) as I refer to to them now, but if you have more elegant names please tell me.

Developing a system of feats where occasionally you can spend a point, also called a feat, and do something cinematic and badass by taking a check.

By nurgley things I mean demons of nurgle in the chaos demon codex

Each zombie is worth 5 credits (10 if you kill with a to hit of 6, representing a headshot), that you can spend on armour or weapons at boxes or wall slots

Mitranekh, by two weapons, do you mean you agree with 4 slots? I also think two explosives slots + any standards they'd get and no limit on equipment that comes standard or is bought by the unit entry.

Between campaign missions you get 10 points to spend on upgrades from the unit entry (excluding anything that adds vehicles, so no jetbikes), to show the model being promoted, such as a Firewarrior passing their trial by fire, or getting better equipment, or just becoming more skilful

Perks have 10 points that can be spent on perks valuing from 1-5 depending on usefulness

Also upgrade points; 1 or 2 after finishing a mission points are then spent upgrading stats, have a table for cost

 la'DunX wrote:

Developing a system of feats where occasionally you can spend a point, also called a feat, and do something cinematic and badass by taking a check.

This sounds amazing.

FNP could be "brain dead" 'the zombies brains are either dead or at the bare minimum required for function. As a result, they do not suffer the debilitating effects of injuries like a regular human, and can often shake them off. All zombies have the FNP 6+ rule until round 10 when it becomes 5+
By 2weapons I mean exactly that. 3 slots really; starter weapon, plus two purchasable guns that can be traded.
The feats system... Badass. But how to work it in, and what to make them?
I wasn't thinking campaign tbh but if you have one I'm more than game for it, though 10pts often just buys a weapon.
The perks... Perhaps after so many rounds you choose a perk for that game only, say every 10 waves, then at the end of the mission you can retain one for the rest of the campaign

how about instead of FNP, a Necron-like get back up from the dead. this would happen at the same time any new zombies spawn, to represent that they just plain will not go down

I Think the guns should last turns not based on waves because wave length can vary based on enemies, melee weapons should be limited also as a sign of wear and tear from fighting nurgle like enemies.

i think the combat shield should be the only exception while it only grants a measly 6+ invuln it would take a weapon slot. so its a trade off.

I think 4 slots + standards works, that way if you have a pistol and chainsword you can also have a bolter, I recommend removing access to a survivors standard weapon when they pick up enough weapons to fill 3/4 slots

Guns last as long as their ammunition does, ie shotguns can be fired 8 times, other weapons and equipment that uses energy lasts as long as it's charge, all values that we still need to assign (you can find the on page 3)

All the good stuff gets done when I'm asleep *sigh*
I don't think an RP type thing would work, because when a zombie is dead, it stays dead this time. With RP the zombies will be in the way in larger rounds, and doesn't leave the survivor caught unawares because the 3 he killed last turn are on his back with 4 in his face.
I think a turn-based ammo system would be better as well, even for melee, and I agree about the shield.
A shotgun lasting 8 turns? You don't think that finding a mystery gun won't include said guns ammo? IMO they need to last a little longer or they won't pay back the purchase cost

How long do you think they should last? All the weapon profiles so far are on pg 3 I'd much appreciate any input.

Well...
1 (1-2)
Small arms:
1: Master-crafted Boltgun (20 turns)
2: Hot-shot lasgun (15 turns)
3: Flamer (12 turns)
4: AutoCarbine (13 turns)
5: Sniper rifle (10 turns)
6: Shotgun (14 turns)

2 (3-4)
Close Combat Weapons:
1: Combat Shield (unbreakable)
2: Krak grenades (4 uses)
3: Heavy chainsword (10 turns)
4: Master-crafted Chainsword (13 turns)
5: Power Sword (15)
6: Power maul (18)

3 (5-6)
Heavy Weapons:
1. Heavy Bolter (30)
2. Lascannon (20)
3. Demo charge (1)
4. Autocannon (25)
5. Missile launcher (15)
6. Melta gun (I still don't like this one, but 10)

I think a few of them may have a bit too much ammo, how long do you want it to last? is it a slaughter or a mad scramble to conserve as much ammo as possible?

Also what is an autocarbine and where can I find it?

Also what about adding some ork guns? There aren't really many mid range weapons

also also what about reloading?

Good point. I wanted it to be ample early on, but as the game progresses you'll need to be switching guns in order to defeat all the zombies.
An auto carbine was something back on page 1 or 2 from wolfmerc iirc.
Ork guns only work in the hands of an ork if you believe the fluff. Besides the boxes as they are have 2 distinct set ups; close range fire/melee, or long range. You do have a point but that's just a feature of the imperial armoury I guess.
Reloading........ Hmmm.... I think after half ammo has been expended, the player can move half speed to reload their weapon, meaning they don't sacrifice fire but give the zombies a chance to close the gap

I was thinking expend 1 ap, but give a fast hands perk making it your minor action for reloading, I can take a look at the weapons, find numbers based on the ones you gave and divide them into magazines, such as 18 shots for the bolter (3*6)

IMO keeping track of ammo for 4 different players will slow the game down a lot.

Cool idea, but would be better with Necromunda rules and terrain imho.

Tactical_Genius wrote:
IMO keeping track of ammo for 4 different players will slow the game down a lot.

Good point, I suppose an ammo system isn't necessary. Perhaps have a 'hardcore' mode where ammo does count, and there are a few different things to make life much more difficult for the survivors. But I'll shelf that, see if this original concept gets off the ground first


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SilentScreamer wrote:
Cool idea, but would be better with Necromunda rules and terrain imho.

What? Can't say I've heard of it, hence I never factored it in. Besides, if we make it ourselves, there's more of a sense of pride in our work. Call that arrogant if you like, but that's how I feel, I want this to be a dakka only thing, not a GW rules set with a twist

Fair enough, my bad, could we please call it something other than call of duty zombies please?

Yes of course. A name is something we can't make up I'm afraid. You got any ideas? Tbh, I only used CoD because its a game type I know and it fits in my head as a concept, many of my friends are big fans of both games.

Just call it '40k: Zombies' - A tabletop zombies inspired horde survival game set in the 40k universe.

It shouldn't be anything obscure at all, people should be able to read that and pretty much know exactly what the game is, especially if they have played video-game modes of similar ilk.

The reason this could and would be popular is because of the inspiration behind it, so you should play up to that from the get go.

You're right, good idea. Scrap good, fabulous idea. I think I'd run that, thank you very much.

Ok, so the idea is each player keeps track of their own ammo, but you guys are dead right, a simple version may be better, so I'll give general categories for weapons that will be easy to track, no ammo counting, no reloads, unless the players opt for advanced.

I second "Warhammer 40000: Zombies"

Also I'm starting to wrap up the rules, oh boy, it's taken twice as long, but at least it's just a day.

I think we should also use 2d6 for the mystery box so that we can have odds and better weapons are more rare
If we do we can have 3 ultra commons and 6 ultra rares

2D6 was the set up I had when I first spawned this idea, not sure what we'd use though, which is most common etc.
I third the name (if it needs it)
Thank you so much for writing those rules, I'm tempted to contact GW with the rules attached and a link to this thread. What do we think, and what email would I use?

They'll probably just shut us down

It's been a pleasure writing rules, I hope I get to keep working with you guys

Bolter, bolt pistol & shotgun

Ok never mind, was worth a shout

It's been a pleasure working with everyone on this thread and if anyone has any more bright ideas for games I'm willing to help

Good idea on the weapons btw. I was gonna put the shotgun on the wall tbh, the test yesterday had both bolter and shotgun on walls and starter as bolt pistol. No matter you have it all in hand

I think we should give everyone a las gun and combat knife or laspistol and chainsword as starter weapon sets, also adding power ups, (nuke, insta-kill, double points)

Also, I play Tau and never learnt to assault so if you could explain to me what bonuses a combat blade gives that would be nice...

All the weapons in the boxes should be found on the walls eventually, but the mystery box is you pay for a bolter and usually you get that, but sometimes you get a plasmacannon

Also I think you shouldn't just ask me about GW, ask everyone, I just don't trust them, or anyone really for that matter, I'm like the ducky momo badge that says "I hate people", probably why I surround myself with little spacemen...

Power ups are good but randomising their appearance and type is tricky. I think pistol is better for a fluff, but the
As gun is the epitomal guard weapon so either is fine. A combat blade is just a cow don't worry you tau boys don't miss out.
I don't think the 'uber' weapons can go on the wall the best gun could be a HB off the wall, plus maybe a melee of some type and krak grenades.
I'll wait for everyone else's opinions on GW but they have the right to edit everything if we submit it so maybe I'll hold off if I can't get a consensus.

power ups are in the box and after every 6 zombies roll 2d6, on 2 or 12 they drop a powerup, then we just need a list of powerups, I have the three that I mentioned and randomisation will be based on that

In the box? Nooooo I'm not so sure. Power ups are often every 15 zombies minimum and at the end of all special rounds, you're lucky to get 2 in a round. I think with a 1 in 18 chance every 6 means you'll get roughly one per 114! One in 5 is a rounder number.
The power ups I'd have would be;
Insta-kill; every successful hit wounds automatically and causes ID
Max ammo; pretty self-explanatory IMO
Double points; again, explains itself
Carpenter; all barriers are repaired to maximum, and all players not down gain 50 credits/points
Nuke; roll a D6 for every zombie on the field, on a 2+ that zombie is killed. Regardless of number of casualties, all players not downed gain 100 pts
Fire Sale; all wall guns are 1/2 price, and the box costs 20pts only.
That's 6 results, I'm willing to change names

Ok, how about one in 6 after 6? that's easy to remember.

ok categories determine ammocount, all are easy to tell apart

ok so categories for weapons:
pistol (8)
super pistol (4)
rifle (12)
energy (6)
heavy (18)
heavy energy (15)
melee (10)
heavy melee (5)

uniques:
demo charge (1)
krak grenades (2)
sniper rifle (10)
exitus rifle (5)
missile launcher (3)
grenade launcher (6)

Yeah easy enough. Just wondered if you've got the rules or maps ready?

rules soon, maps still coming, how about random map generation rules for last stand as compensation?

You've lost me... What are you meaning? Thanks for the speed of this btw

I'm giving you most of the rules and some rules to generate a last stand map

1 add terrain
2 throw one scatter dice and 1d6 in each quadrant of you board
3 place 1 standard base in each of the scattered locations, these are your boxes
4 ???
5 profit

I can't find anything, the screen just appears brown?
Anyway that's a good start in terms of set up, makes sense but I just can't open the blighter

screen appears brown? can you open docx's?
have you accidentally zoomed into the brown cover page?
what kind of doesn't open?

I'm on an iPad so I'll go on a PC see if that helps. Looks like I'm zoomed in but can't zoom out

Yeah iirc ipads don't support docx...
I have to warn you though, it's quite unfinished

hey wolfmerc, which of the special rules are made for zombies in the rules you submitted?

got it now. Great start, absolutely excellent.
What does 'Down but not out' and 'Evasive' mean in game terms, and reviving isn't mentioned once.
Im not sure about this minor points system either, 4AP is what you get in space hulk, and would allow for a move, shoot, open a door and revive your mate in one go, but then again you haven't covered it as far a I can see.
For feats I would go with these, similar to the orders;

Eat this, Scum!; The survivor unloads a disproportionate amount of shots into the undead to clear a path. The survivor can fire 3 times this turn for a single ap, and without incurring penalties to the magazine beyond the norm. However, the survivor cannot use the same weapon next turn as they allow it to cool, instead using any other weapon(s) they are holding.

Coming Through!; Realising to ponder is to fall, the survivor puts on a massive burst of speed. The survivor automatically sprints. If they pass through a zombie, they do not engage in cc but instead slash with their weapon as they run, causing a single S4 hit on each passed zombie. However, such a daredevil tactic is not without risk, so for every zombie passed through, the survivor takes an S3 hit on a 4+ (some zombies just can't react that fast)

I love the smell of chopped up zombie in the morning!; Melee only. the survivors attacks are lightning quick, carving through the zombies like a hot knife through butter. in the round of cc this feat is used, the survivor gains D6 attacks and the Preferred Enemy USR. however, such exertion is tiring, and so if the survivor is still in cc next round, they fight with -1A

Yes I know my names are crazy but I think you'd be a bit mad too in the midst of a zombie apocalypse

I've just put the important stuff in, i'm also working on feats at the moment, one is power kick where you kick a M F through cover into other M F 's, I love your crazy names, what is coltrane in gears' catchphrase?

also I don't know what a lot of the added special rules are, I asked wolfmerc but I don't expect a reply any time soon

No idea I'm a CoD man, tank Dempsey and co. "oo ra" and all that. The power kick would be badass I have to say. "Wow, I didn't know zombies could fly!" Sound good?

Called it power kick after crisis, but maybe it can be crazier, thinking of making "beat a M F with anotha M F "

Ohhhh yes! Excellent shout, although the language won't wash. "How to splat a zombie? Kick another one in its emperor damned face!"

can we release a g-rated and an x-rated version?

Maybe one day, for now let's nail the rules down. How does down but not out work? And evasive as well?

I don't know, I assume wolfmerc came up with them, waiting for his response.
Tell me does "take 1check/feat point@+1/d6" make sense to you?

Take one check per feat point at +1 or +D6??
And yeah I am hoping wolfmerc is gonna wake up across the big pond in the USofA to help too

I think I may do away with it, it's a decision to make survivors take more checks the more expensive/good/difficult to pull off a feat is.
Like "beat a M F with anotha' M F ", it cost 3 feats/feat points now I can have the survivor take a normal strength check or 3 strength checks at +3 strength, see I want to reach a balance between likeliness and reward because "All the havoc of combat sends the survivor into overdrive and with nigh on unholy rage they rip 1 enemy in base contact’s arm off killing it instantly, the survivor gains fleshbane, hatred and 1d6 attacks every 6 models in a squad, starting at 1 (ie. 1d6 for 1-6, 2d6 for 7-12 and so on)" is big and i'm not sure cost alone will cover it, but then again, I could just make it cost 4, or have them test at -1
_________________________________________________________________________

know what, i'll just make it a lil less good

That's crazy powerful! OP IMO. We have 4 between us and that's plenty tbh, too many and they'll become clunky as players make their minds up what to use.

I want a lot of crazy, i'm having too much fun to stop, we can remove later, it's supposed to completely annihilate whatever it touches once and once only, it now costs 5.

"All the havoc of combat sends the survivor into overdrive and with nigh on unholy rage they rip 1 enemy in base contact’s arm off killing it instantly, the survivor gains +2S, and 1d6 attacks every 6 models in the squad, starting at 1 (ie. 1d6 for 1-6, 2d6 for 7-12 and so on). This can only be used during your initiative step in combat, and only lasts for that combat"

also with the creation system we'll get 25 feats, 5 1pt'ers, 10 2pt mix skills, 5 2/3pt'ers and 5 4/5 pt'ers, there needs to be a fair distribution of skill (it's leaning towards strength at the moment)

Ok too much. Way too much. We don't wanna break the game here

I won't, i'll just balance the skills so that each survivor is at least decent at 7 skills

Suppose. God we're on page 6!

Okay, I need some sleep, be back in 3 hours.

Skill gaps are:
WS : 1
WS : 3/4/5
BS : 3/4/5
I : 2/3
I : 3/4/5
WS/BS : 2
S/WS : 2
S/BS : 2
I/S : 2
I/BS : 2


All dual stat skills cost 2 feats, the point is to create something that would be influenced by both
I is used to check agility
the number is how many feats it costs

I think if we want our guys performing kickass actions straight from a movie, toughening up isn't one. Too many feats is clunky and slow, 7 is more than enough.
I think the next things we should look at are reviving downed players and the rules with barriers.
"Down but not out" would be 'even if a survivor is overwhelmed by the zombies, he is able to cling to life for a few more moments, allowing the chance for a rescue. If a player loses their final wound, do not remove them as a casualty. Instead, replace them with a suitably modelled 'injured' version, or simply lie them down. "Downed" survivors can move D6" per turn and are able to fire a pistol weapon if they have one. If the other survivors cannot revive them (see "reviving") within 3 turns, then remove the model as a casualty. Dead survivors respawn at the start of a new round, meaning the zombies have to down all the survivors in a single wave to win'

I disagree strongly with respawning, but it may work, maybe we keep no respawns for hardcore?

25 works because it would be 7 for each stat, meaning even tau will be decent at something if they allocate stuff right

OK, I'm going to bed now, back in 2hrs & 45 mins

Yeah, because if 1 veteran and 3 news play, the vet will be on his own within 10 waves and screwed

Catching up on this thread has been magnificent.
this is freakin awesome.

Thanks a lot, our group on here have been putting in a ton of effort and its nice to know its appreciated!
Do you have any suggestions for things such as barriers, revives, anything at all?

Oh right, catching up the 2 rules i intended for the humans:

down but not out was if a human lost both wounds he would be incapacitated and another human could revive him (if in contact) with a ld test, then they would d3 consolidate if revived. if not revived the downed player dies. (similar to cod.)

evasive was to take an initiative test to get out of close combat with zombies (d3 consolidate)

Ah makes sense. Evasive works for me I have to say. I put up a more cod like version of DBNO where the characters can move, I was gonna ask about reviving actually, Ld is fine by me. Any ideas about barricades?

um maybe we can grant special rules or maneuvers for characters with certain traits?

ie: if someone took the perk juggernaut they could do that kick ass ability sometime in the game

also im getting the knack for rule writing so i may do some unfinished sections, i am really surpirsed at our progress though.




About barricades: my brother and i worked out that barriers had
An armor rating of 7 so a strength 3 zombie could penetrate the armor (only taking out 1 hull point with no roll on the damage table) and there would be something like 4 hull points so the zombies could have trouble getting in but in numbers just blow over the thing.



on the GW discussions earlier:

here is a quip on their submission policy, out of context but heres the link: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=§ion=community&pIndex=14&aId=4500001&start=15&multiPageMode=true

..."Who owns the ideas that I submit to you?

For legal reasons we will only accept your submission if you agree to assign all intellectual property rights in it to us. This means that by making a submission you automatically give Games Workshop ownership and exclusive rights to use your submission for any purpose. It is important that you are comfortable with this before making a submission to us. Please do not make a submission if you do not agree to this."...

so if we hand this over to gw it wont be "ours" anymore.

Ah, well in our test game we gave them 3HP and the zombies could strip a barrier of a HP on a 5+. Sometimes it was a quick strip away, sometimes they were there half a wave waiting.
I'm not sure about the manoeuvre things, we have those feats that me and la'Dun'X worked out for badass manoeuvres. Thanks for the feedback, hope to see your contributions soon


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And good point on the GW thing, we'll leave it out and maybe look for an independent to sell it to?

Fantastic, too bad we could not work on this in person, Your in the UK, La'dunx is in Australia, and I'm in the US! We are a little too far apart for that.

Yeah the time differences aren't helping I have to say, I mean last night you and dunx were busy, me and him today, you and me tonight. Then again, shows the effectiveness of dakka in uniting like-minded gamers. I have my best friend working alongside me as a tester, but he isn't on here unfortunately. Oh well, on with the zombies!
So, revives etc is done, barriers I think are 5pts for fix, they repair on a 3 or 4+. We have the cinematics are in place, the mystery box/boxes are half there so we need to nail that down because dunx suggested a simple 2D6. We also need to decide on the wall weapons

Ok 2d would be fine: more randomness than a d3 and a d6, but that system uses less weapons, I personally don't really care for the change, but actually it should speed the game. wall weapons should probably increase in specialty when further in the game, but Mystery boxes should only be allowed weapons not on the walls.


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so say in the first area you can get a shot got but later you can get a flamer or plasma gun so to speak.

I was gonna say 1 or 2 wall weapons per area. I think;
Bolter, shotgun, sniper, plasma, grenade launcher, maybe melta. Nothing heavy.
For the box your list works fine when I tried it. If it was a 2D6 list I'd say
2 plasma cannon
3 stalker bolter
4 wonder weapon (we created a wunderwaffe DG2 type earlier)
5 Flamer
6 twin bolt pistols (counts as either 2 shots or TL)
7 heavy stubber
8 multi laser
9 HB
10 HF
11 wonder weapon (thundergun as an OP flamer or a blastaway like the feat dunz came up with)
12 Assault cannon/Death Machine (same stat)

Ok thats good enough, no melee weapons but melee with zombies is seldom a good idea anyways.
also currently editing th updated rb, whats the stat line for humans we made?

It was WS4 BS4 S4 T3 W2 I3 A3 Ld9 I think, Sv4+. I think getting a power maul or chain axe from the wall (like galvaknuckles in CoD BO2) for a HIGH fee would work if someone really wants to try melee weapons out.

'Allo chaps, I'm back.
drop the human stat line just use basic troop with 2 +1's
hmm killstreaks in zombies interesting...

G'day, or should I say g'night it's half 11 here. Kill streaks... Not keen IMHO but hey, if you try it maybe, but they need to be high as the body count will stack. Fast.
We agree on 2 wounds otherwise its too easy to down. Then Ld should be upped due to the bravery in facing a zombie apocalypse. So the actual good stats are BS and attacks. BS4 with 2 attacks is about fair. But .dont allow SM or MEQ to play, otherwise the other races become defunct, use a default statline is easier tbh especially early on

which is why we should present each race as having strengths and weaknesses, except for tau and SM and MEQ, tau will be hard mode and SM would be easy mode

also if I can stay up 'til 3:12 then so can you

hah, good to have you here, im just sprucing up your version of the rulebook, and i have to say you really did put a lot of time and detail into it. Nice!

I plan on doing some tweaks to organization like having the profiles and options for races at the end just like in a standard codex, plus it will be easier to add tau and space marine profiles since they'd be at the end.

Orks too, I mean they're T4 and WS4, 2A basic . Sure they can't shoot but they would mulch the hordes in melee. I agree with the hard mode being pansy tau, and MEQ in sissy, er I mean easy mode. But a guardsman stateliness is a solid base for it, nothing's OP eg eldar agility, DE same, Nids would be the zombies, orks I mentioned, sisters have PA, crons T4 Bs4, etc

tau can actually be mildly competitive if you put the 1st upgrade in BS and the 2nd in S

Demolisher: +1 attacks & add second dice to armour penetration against barricades

give basic zombies that to make them break through

since their toughness and initiative is low they would still be eaten up in close combat, but thats balance for you.

Agreed, you try it with tau I'll keep it in the guard, see how it goes. Like the zombie boost, maybe for 20pts

try standard, I'm not sure if zombies can get through barricades at all at the moment

Under mercs rules they glance on 4s and it has 4HP, with me it was 5+ 3HP. Sometimes it was fast, others slooow

My long post previous on this page has some stuff on barriers you can give that a try if you'd like.

Cool, looks like we have our first zombie upgrade, have we dealt with repairing barricades yet?

Um i think that will be a minor action, but im pondering whether minor actions should be free but limited, say buying a wall gun is a minor action but does not use mp instead uses points for the gun.

Edit: Oh! page 7!

Very loosely. I suggested a player can use their mp to repair a barrier if they are within 2", on a 3 or 4+ the barrier gains a HP lost to zombies earlier in the game.

While I remember and before I sleep, what are we gonna do for no. of zombies per wave?

well we should play test first, but id say 20 zombies for the first wave?

(setD6 zombies) + (set * players) + round per barricade

so
round 1: 1d6+4+1 zombies/barricade
round 2: 1d6+4+2
round 3: 1d6+4+3
round 4: 1d6+4+4
round 5: 1d6+4+5
round 6: 2d6+8+6
round 7: 2d6+8+7

and so on, note a set is 5 rounds

But round 6 that's 6D6+8' min 14 max 44! The CoD format is 6 in wave one, then +5 every time. Less random but if one player doesn't fix the barrier in round 10.... Uh oh, he's in bother, as I found in the test where one guy was fighting 8 off with a shotgun and knife... In round 5!

It seems complicated at first but i follow, also Can i change fast zombies to I 3? since they are fast it seems they would be striking "fast" hence the name.

Yeah I guess though the player is now at the same speed and so incredibly vulmerable

The point is that you can have a really safe or really dangerous round, D increase is per set, not round. 6d6 would be rounds 26-30. Again, a set is 5 rounds. Makes sense, do it. also post it I have more updates.

Update: woo! I have friends!

Also, maybe in hard core we make repairs 1ap
Also also, morale check then 1d3 to see how many hp are restored

ok hold still working on the "codex" section.

Oh yeah my bad, misread... Derp Mitranekh x_x
So yeah yours works now.
Well I'm beat, great work gents keep it up I'm off for a sleep

Alright nighty night!

You have 3 hours, I'm timing XD

Wolfmerc, why not add some nurgle demons from codex chaos demons for some squad leaders and bosses?

As profiles? Sure, but the link system for the table of context is really confusing. ill post it with the profiles and can you do the links for the last 2 pages?

Oh right, what program are you using?

Also as a media student the table of context sounds like an interesting feature

um just regular word 2011? on a mac.


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PlagueBearer : HQ
Ws Bs S T W I A Ld Sv Unit type Unit composition
3 3 4 4 2 3 2 10 5+ infantry (character 1 Zombie

Mutations: Plagued Armor (5+), Plague sword (poisoned +4, shred)
Special Rules: Feel no pain, shrouded, Slow and purposeful, fearless


first boss profile (you probably knew i had the codex didnt you? oh yeah its in my profile)

I dunno, styles and table of contents is usually pretty simple

So here is some edits to the rulebook:

table of contents for the last 2 entries is wonky.

Actually, don't worry, I can see al the differences

Also, thanks

Your wonky entry seems to have come right as soon as I updated the table

awesome possom. any opinions on the hq entry?

It's good, maybe next add other nurgle things for boss rounds?
Have you read feats yet? I could do with some help coming up with those.
I'll start adding more of the stuff we've discussed, but right now I gotta run.

Dunx we have 7 feats I think we're ok on that one. Merc they're on page 6 mainly
I know we covered evasive and DBNO on here but it isn't in the book, neither is barrier repair?
No. Of zombies per round is missing too, and the box list.
I'm not having a go you've done a great job, just some observations, the rules in themselves are excellent

Yeah I'm working on that and a couple other things and no, just 7 is not enough, I understand your concern of having too many, but right now there are too few, there must be a better spread of cheaper feats, I have listened to you though and have dropped the total I hope to finish with, what about upgrades for zombie players though, I started with mutation slots to limit units so that they are never invincible, 2 for troops, 3 for hqs maybe more for bosses, but probably none as they will probably be special enough already.

Also upped ap to 4 and mp to 2 with the catch that weapon sets cannot be changed twice in a turn

By the way, I seem to have barriers down in environmental rules, anyone know what we were talking about, barriers anyone?

Alright for some cheap ones, perhaps one that gives an extra ap for a turn, only usable every 3 or so. Perhaps scavenger, allowing them to refill half a magazine if they run out of ammo, maybe for 2pts or even 1. Perhaps a feat if they go down, drop a frag grenade at their feet and take the undead with them?
For zombies, upping FNP to 5+, or perhaps rending too, would be good as one attack one defence
For the hq like plaguebearers, an extra attack, a speed boost for movement eg a run move, and in the insane region, the ability to teleport in instead of using barriers.
We have 2 barrier options, mine with 3HP glance on 5, mercs with 4Hp glance on 4. Repairs, you wrote something.
Btw, should the survivors have frag grenades?

Survivors have whatever Wargear their entry gives them

That's barricades, nothing on barriers?

Any mutation can be bought for any unit, but units can only have so many

Those aren't great feats, feats are actions, you don't need to 'appease' the stubborn Aussie (I'm not even Australian), but don't worry, I won't go out of the way to think of them, I'll just put them down as they come to me

Finished traps I have: snare, ceiling drop, poison dart, crushing walls, spike pit and mechanism failed

I was always on about the barriers on the edge where zombies spawn behind, not sure what you're on about but the same system can work for both.
We need to cost the mutations too, with destroying barriers being a scorer the zombies can't upgrade too easily.
I look forward to further feats from the non-Aussie, and the trap rules should be fun.
I ask again, should we give the survivors frag grenades? They're a great way to get out of a jam as I found out in the playtest

frag grenades for buying from wall slots?
if the model that the player chooses' unit entry says they have frag grenades then they get frag grenades, or are we talking about the custom imperial soldier in our book?
or do you think all survivors should get frag grenades as standard?

I think I have traps down, I just need to write out the final effects for each of the traps

merc seems to have put down barriers and barricades, it's more specific to refer to what we're talking about as barricades, I also think 4 hp glancing on 4 is better purely because we can give credits per hp just to get the zombie player earning more

I think all should have it, especially in high rounds when a sniper rifle against 4 or 5 zombies just won't do. The traps look good I must say, still missing the explanations for DBNO and evasive, and revives.
We'll use the 4HP system I tried it and it fits.
The map names are fun we just have to nail down what the differences are.
Also, are we going to have wonder weapons? Freeze rays, lightning gun, compressed air launcher (thundergun op flamer) one on each list?

wonder weapons yes,
those are plague modes not maps, except nurgle's playground, which is both
reviving was under gameplay, looks like merc removed it
dbno was basically you can be revived

Ok, so what are the rules for them to make them different?
Well we know it so in the next update it can go in.
Could you move or shoot whilst down?
I think for the wonder weapons....
Wunderwaffe (lightning gun) [2] magazine 10
R24 S6 AP4 assault 1, Arc (4+), beam of death
The wunderwaffe always hits every member of a zombie squad as the lightning arcs between them. The lightning arcs to the nearest zombie within 12" of the targeted squad, and can arc a maximum of 3 times
Winters howl (freeze gun) [2] magazine 15
R18 S5 AP5 assault 2, cryogenic ray
Any zombie hit but not killed by the winters howl moves at half speed next turn.
Thundergun [2] magazine 12
R Template S7 AP3 assault 1, rending, knockback
Any zombie hit but not killed by the thundergun is sent flying 2D6". If it collides with another zombie, both take a S4 AP- hit. If it collides with a terrain piece, it takes a S6 AP- hit

I probably uploaded a slightly more patched up version

Alright, so what do we think we can do for the modes to differ them? Perhaps last stand is one room only, good way to ease new players in, especially if we put in several wall guns and the box. The playground can add in the HQs and rooms and traps. Wrath could allow the zombies to start tougher, add in the bosses, maybe even turn the terrain on the players in high rounds as grandad gets mega annoyed.

What do you think to the 'wonder weapons'? I can change the names if we're treading on toes.

Also, the traps seem anti player not anti zombie, I think they should be activated by the players instead to allow a respite

Oh, no I've already got the three modes planned I just need to write them out,

last stand is purely try to survive as long as possible, with either pre generated maps that have a defined outside and inside that you can move between or room by room generated maps, it's up to the player to set these maps up, but any maps and rooms we come up with will make it easier for them.

Nurgle's playground is all about trying to survive the chaos of the warp, it has no rooms and is played out in 2'X2' boards with terrain that randomly moves around, creating a constantly fluctuating map, there are combat objectives that provide drops and bonuses but mainly it is survival,

Wrath of the plaguefather is a campaign with maps that we will premake, they will be closer to the call of duty zombies experience

Resetting traps for zombies hmmm... zombies also setting off traps...
I must confess the traps were designed anti player but if we allow smart players to lure zombies then we can also give them bonuses and encourage more diverse tactics

As a CoD man, luring 20 odd zombies into a trap that whacks them to death for 30 seconds is massively gratifying. I'd set them up as player activated, that encourages the players to be clever, let them attack any zombie that passes through for 5 turns. Often they're set in doorways. Shock traps, acid spray, rotating gate with spikes on, lots of fun.
I look forward to the playground mode, and that campaign.
Taken till page 8 but we're nearly there

Not really we're not, we still got a whole campaign of maps to make and you know what, that actually excites me.

Maybe we keep the zombie traps but we let the players set up their own traps like the ones you describe, make them find parts and put em all together?

They do that in BO2, can build swinging saw blades, launchers, sonic blaster turrets, I can agree to that. True we're not right at the end but the rules are down, we're a lot lot closer than a week or so ago

Yep, so player traps, what have we got?

I have 3 or 4 in mind.
Electric shock trap, 50pts, set in a doorway. Lasts 3 turns, causes S8 hits on zombies passing through.
Decapitating trap, 60pts, kills any passing zombie on 3+ lasts 4 turns.
Acid spray trap, 70pts, causes a poisoned 2+ hit on each zombie, 3 turns.
Swinging trap, 100pts, 5 turns, sends any zombie flying (see thundergun). I'm off for dinner so good luck with things and if merc shows up that'll help

Why points, let's make survivors assemble it themselves

But there's 4 of them, each with different parts, plus assembling them, just effort. Perhaps in hardcore mode we make them buildable?

Boy you guys sure let loose when im not around!


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ok so i wrote down a lot of stuff last night i will just add it to the current rule book.

When you're on school holidays, and want your game to work, I've got nothing better to do!
So, to catch you up, I've suggested some wonder weapons on pg 7, we're currently debating traps, we have another rules set up too

Yeah, im takin a look at the new version, i have yet to playtest, but i added rules for psykers and some other odd rules last night. Also aside from inventory slots I devised a new slot to put consumables so a player gets 4 slots and 1 special slot, he can put all types of grenades, combat simulants, and a repair tool in there but those arent unlimited use, (repair tool negates using action point when repairing stuff, but its only like 1 or 2 uses)

Oh right, I think that's a little risky having a psyker with the chaos gods watching, especially in the Immaterium itself. I wouldn't if I were you IMO.
Seen as DunX wouldn't give me a flippin response, what do you think of the wonder weapons? And how would you set up traps?

ok so no psykers, ill keep the rules handy just in case we can make em fit.

i think how BO1 did it was to turn the power on first then you can purchase them for a 1 time use? I think it would be interesting to search around for special parts though. Traps should ideally be either 1 time use or all time use with fewer of them.

BO2 had buildable ones, the headchopper that you can mount on walls is one of my favourites.
The traps are re-usable I'm sure, just need some time in between to allow recharge and prevent a wall of death permanently. If they were one-time they'd never be used as you'd think "oh I'll hang on, I can handle this it'll be worse next wave" IMO.
Perhaps the odd door trap and 2 buildables, the finger and the chopper, mount the electric and acid on the doors. Power is an issue because doing it is hardly fun.
Keep the psyker rules we'll see what DunX and any other contributor has to say. And the wonder weapons?

Wonder weapons imo should only be available via killing a boss or something, or add side objectives to get a wonder weapon (but that would be too much work for one gun) still thinking...

Ok getting them, we can work on. I reckon that having them as top box options is still viable, 1 in 36 is slim enough odds to me. What about the profiles though?

but here are some observations:

the feat system seems to make these regular guys turn into gods or something, they would maybe work better if were made more rare.

the perks should all be 5 points each but only up to 3 may be chosen, the player has 25 point to spend on his character so 3 perks make 15 points leaving only ten to be used on conumables or a different weapon,


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profiles for the units are fine, i think the character has like 25 points in any game to kit out his character, he can becoma level 1 spyker for 10 points or buy 3 perks for 15 points, consumables like frag or krak grenades, a repair tool, or a combat stimulant would be five points for 2, 2 points for 1. i think that could work

Ok fair enough.
For feats, we do want the survivors to tell a story of their fight like a movie, and the feats are the reason they survive. I confess, some of them need nerfing, and rarity is needed too, possibly per HQ kill on an Ld test, that way you can't have them in early rounds, and if you burn them away you need to wait for more.
I like the upgrade system you suggest too, good idea

ok, if you want to tweak the feat system i will post a rulebook with multiple minor changes.

You do that, whenever DunX is back we can run it past him (well I assume its him, you never know with tau). So just to prevent reading the small print, what are you planning to change?

ok so i plan on adding a consumable section or special slot section, thats for small items or power ups for the right moment, if you pick up a power up with your special slot empty it saves it if your slot is full the power up is activated immediately, the special slot can be filled with up to 2 grenades, 1 stimulant (adding rules now), 1 repair tool (added rules) and 1 power up.

I am adding psyker special rules, but require your points stipend to buy (say you have 25 point to upgrade you char. you can use 10 to be a psyker choosing only 1 discipline to draw your powers from. you only can choose 1 power while mastery level 1, you can choose another power for 2 and 3.

adding a couple psyker perks.

not changing anything else, so really just additions mostly.

may change reviving though

Okie dokie, good I can now find things easily. Look forward to it

Alright most of the changes or additions have been made:
gave zombies ap and mp so the zombie player knows he cant spam action, made consumables, added 2 perks, made psykers, barriers are repairable with mp and a role of 3+, made rules for evading assualt (gave the survivors that special rule), trashed down but not out seeing as the rule is an actual game mechanic now, changed inventory so heavy weapons take up 3 slots instead of 2, then made an addition to getting started. here it is.

Excellent work. Can't see the explanation for evade, but maybe I'm just too tired. The medic thing works perfectly, barriers is fine. We are slowly getting there now, just the possible bosses, the game modes/campaign to design, possibly work in buildable traps and wonder weapons.
Btw, whoever found that picture on the contents page is a freakin genius, that sums zombies up to a T.

oh i know, we need to find a bunch of players to playtest this stuff, but its more fun to do it ourselves. yeah i agree about the picture, i was browsing all over and just found it right out of the blue! I think im going to leave dunx to the feat and trap system, hes pretty good with that stuff.

I don't blame you tbh you and dunx have sorted this with only some c+c and arguing from me.
I'll keep playing and testing things out, I have a club when I get back to school at least half of which like CoD zombies so will help.
Before mr Brit grabs his sleep I just want to clear up what we're doing with these wonder weapons? High score for box instead of the power ups dunx used, possible spawn from bosses or the odd HQ, side quests (Easter egg anyone?). I would say box or mission

Ok I'm back, I went to sleep, it was 1am.
You know that to do most feats you need to wait five turns? AMD then you still need to pass a skill check
You get 1 feat 'point' (needs a better name) per turn if you pass a morale check
Nurgle's playground is already getting simple optional objectives we can now reward players with more than credits
Why 3 slots? The point of slots is to stop people from using mêlée and heavy weapons at the same time, not make heavy weapons restrictive, but I can see the logic, what do you think?
I think for sprinting snap fire past 12", normal fire up to 12"
I think perks should cost different points, 3 is average, 4 better, 5 best, 2 not too useful and 1 pretty useless, that way you can have a mixture of excellence and utter rubbish or lots of rubbish or 2 great perks, but what do you think?
Created explosives slots, they hold 4 frags or 2 of any other or 1 demo charge

Ok If feats are limited to five turns thats fine, Feat is so clunky to say though, it feels like im saying "feets" which is grammatically goofy. I dig some digging in a thesaurus and attainment stood out but that seems to long for a replacement like feat.

The reasoning behind changing it to 3 slots was so players could not have 2 heavy weapons, if they had 2 plasma cannons they practically have double ammo.

I think the sprinting rule works thats in movement right? thats the only place it could fit.

Well when i was creating the perks i was trying to have some sort of balance in mind, what makes the players is the perks and their weapon, if a person plays his character poorly with the choices of perks he has that defines their usefulness. For example: a person chooses the healer perk, but never gets to revive anyone, that is the epitome of perk wasting.


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Im also pretty sure this is the 3 longest "proposed rules" threads.


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Wow its also in the most popular threads section, NICE.

Yeah I noticed all the perks are pretty equal, maybe just 3 is fine

Feats take different amounts of feat points, get down for instance requires only 1 so it can be used any turn you pass the morale check to gain a feat point, power kick costs 2 so it takes a little longer, beat a mofo is 5 because of its lethality, we should also make them need recharging, ie must wait one turn per feat point required, thinking of making even trying cost 1ap whether you succeed at accomplishing the feat or not

yeah an action point could work, move, shoot, assault, feat. seems pretty reasonable

OOH page 9!

This is probably the 2nd biggest project I've ever done.
What else is there left to do?

2nd?? What could be higher?
Great work guys again, and to know we're being noticed by the community is great!
In terms of what to do...
The buildable trap options
The campaign (I can hear DunX groan from here)
Fixing up the game modes
And that is about it I think. Home straight

No groan actually, I'm excited, I also have a suggested timeline for campaign development.

More set up notes, wall slots, 3 tiers
Tier 1 may not be within 4" of another wall slot
Tier 2 may not be within 8" of another wall slot
Tier 3 may not be within 16" of another wall slot
This means you can have weaker weapons in the same room, but stronger weapons are much further apart

how bout background? lore as it were? fluff? stuff like that.

There's a saying in game design, 'game play is king'
Crunch before fluff
Fluff for the campaign would be amazing but let's get the base rules down first

Yeah yeah sure sure, heard that one before *sigh*, oh and we need loads more work on zombies, like bosses, mutations, elite units, such as rules for all nurgle daemons, maybe plague marines.

and this is probably the biggest project i was a part of.


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Alright i think im going to hit the hay for tonight.

Oh right didn't say my biggest, I'm working with some guys on att to make the tuirat catastrophe a pdf, the campaign isn't mine, a bunch of us just love it so much we think it should get a pdf

See ya round marc

So for 5 points a zombie kill, how expensive should weapons be?

Eyup I'm back
I like your tier system, but if the rooms are, say, 24x24, you'll have a lot of wall guns. Perhaps tier 1 is 12", 2 is 18, 3 is 24, or say that the tiers can only add up to X per room (maybe 5).
You're right rules first is the main thing, though I'm not bad at writing the fluff for things, if you like I'll work on something and write the story behind the campaign.
Zombie rules and bosses is the main thing now I agree, not sure how to go about it.
Weapons should be 25 for tier 1, 40 in tier 2, 60 for tier 3 imo

If tier 3 is 24" then it will never fit on the board, the distance is form any gun, not just ones of the same tier
We may need 2 tier 1s in the same room, also I think if two guns are in different rooms then the measurement is taken along the quickest route than in a straight line
The price you suggest for weapons is good but I think expendables may need slightly different ones

Take your point, but 4" will allow loads of guns in the same room, especially in spawn room which often has 2 guns at most. 6" 9" 12"?

What do you think to the weapon points?

We should only allow a finite amount of wall guns, perhaps we make a few set lists that players can choose from

12 is way too close for tier 3s, how about 6, 10, 16

That suits me.
With CoD you always have a semi-auto rifle and a shotgun in room one. My list would be...

Spawn (both present, both tier 1)
Shotgun
Bolter
Second room(s) (2/3 present, 2 tier 1s 1 tier 2)
Grenade launcher T2
Sniper
Hot shot las
Third room (2/3 present, 1 of each tier)
Multi laser T3
Flamer T2
Plasma gun
Final (4th) room 3/4 present, 2T2 2T3
HB T3
Heavy stubber T2
Krak grenades T2
Chainaxe T3 (2 handed)

Iirc isn't a heavy stubber a pretty powerf gun? Or is it some sort of mid ground between bolted and hub?

It's 36" S4 AP6 heavy 3, so somewhere in between. What do you think then?

Tier 2.5
seriously though, t2 will be fine

I can move it to T3 instead of the HB, then add a 2nd T2 option, a missile launcher maybe

No, t2 is good, I'm actually going to go off now, it's late

That's fine, I can work on some fluff for when you or merc get back. See you around

I am really liking what you guys are doing. Just a thought, would your game break if instead of regular joes, the survivors would be 2 space marines? Would a small blurb of rules regarding different factions be acceptable (like a 2 man space marine survivor team vs a multiple gaunt brood tyranid zombie team. Seems like a cool Battle of Maccrage scenario.)?

Thanks for the encouragement, shows we aren't working for nothing.
I think for this original rules set we will stick to the IG. But using SM could be a good supplemental set, thanks for the suggestion


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Ok,so here is the first draft of the background to zombies and the campaign.

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
Thanks for the encouragement, shows we aren't working for nothing.
I think for this original rules set we will stick to the IG. But using SM could be a good supplemental set, thanks for the suggestion

Thats actually what I wanted to ask you guys to do a space marine, and later a tyranid supplement. Most of mystery box benefits would stay the same, but i would introduce the space marine profile, and maybe have a much smaller table of perks and upgrades accessible to space marines only, and they could only take 2 perks at most, balanced out by having appropriate stat lines and only 2 models per team.

This is the current stat line i'm playing with at the moment:
Thats what I have so far. I didn't put points on because it is a rough draft, and hasn't been balanced yet.

You're right, it is truly broken. Your perks are MASSIVELY OP, seriously a 2+ save 3 wounds, FNP and IWND is too much man.
No heavy weapons pre game, otherwise it's too easy. Same for melee.
No ML3 no SM Libby is except the SCs, ML1 tops, we have a psyker perk already in.
Also, no Str or T buffs, I5 and WS/BS5 will JUST about wash.

I'm not having a go (much) but that is far too powerful and won't be troubled until at least round 20 or so even in 2s

Thank you for pointing out the , I figured that was cheesy after i put that out there. I axed the librarians perk and the extra weapon options, and removed FNP.
I am still clueless on unique weapon options for them, seeing as how the generic weapons are guard oriented. I cannot think of good Marine options.

I don't want special weapons as starters, either bolter or bolt pistol and ccw.
Still don't like S5 or T5. And as for weapons there aren't any real marine weapons. A conversion Beamer wonder weapon maybe? It's an improvement though

I like the start for the background, Its something, but i chuckled at segmentum "obscurus". Also the tiers for wall weapons work since few are in the mystery box and the others are not dirt ineffective like laspistols.

Exactly. And why laugh? It exists if you look on the map

well it reminded me of the word obscure, another word for uncertain or concealed. Now i feel like an idiot.

It happens, no problem.
Where would you go next with the fluff?


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 ace101 wrote:
]Thats actually what I wanted to ask you guys to do a space marine, and later a tyranid supplement.

Nids? Really?? They would just eat the zombies, make more nids and take over the world for themselves! Not for me I'm afraid

Probably for the fluff i would imagine this stand still at the planet, like plague is rampant it has overrun most of the planet the inquisition has taken notice and are ready to exterminatus the planet, but there is something stopping them. What? What is so dear on the planet that it is so dire to keep? could it end the long war? A tool to defeat chaos incarnate? who knows. Maybe since the ordor xenos is known for having many strongholds there, maybe they are responsible for the plague? that would be a plot twist.

As a supplement or battlezone book, maybe. Don't want the crazy plot twist straight up. Perhaps the final mission could be a race for extraction before exterminatus? After all if the =I= got wind of a zombie apocalypse they'd be right on it regardless of if there are any survivors.

pretty much, it should would scare the willies out of the survivors if they saw exterminatus beams destroying the battlefield they were occupying

That's a little much. I dunno what DunX is up to with his campaign, but I had an idea of looting bodies in the 2nd or 3rd last mission, then using that as bargaining chips for freedom. Need the campaign ideas putting up DunX whenever you get this.
Have you had any ideas for the HQ and boss rules etc?

Well The first hq i put up was a plaguebearer, a regular daemon of nurgle. Luckily for you, i own the 6th ed daemons codex so i can just plop the profiles from the book into the rules with out much trouble.
Ask and ye shall recieve, also i was sorta playing with the idea in my head about the final boss being nurgle, thoughts?

Yeah true, I don't have it.
They will all need some tweaking to fit with the zombies archetype. For example toning down FNP, slowing them down, making them worse fighters than the survivors. If you could just plop on the basic profiles and rules with explanation if required, we can work from there

Ok that should be easy enough.

Cheers, with the survivors done, us on the zombies, me and DunX on campaign, plus all the little bits, it's all going well

indeed, couple questions, have the traps, wall weapons and feats been refined?

Feats is DunX's field I'm leaving him to it
Wall weapons, I've put up a list already and I got no complaints.
Traps... Parts being available for the finger and choppy trap is WIP. Door traps will simply be on doors, cost pts to activate I suggested some last night for acid and electric. We can do traps now if you like, the parts system and things

ok lets have at it,

how many basic components for traps? 3 should be a nice round number
the and the aoe is just a straight 4 inch diameter?

Roughly yes
3 or 4 is good, 4 for the flinger (two springs, a base and the launcher) and 3 for the chopper (blade, mount, motor). 6" aoe for the blade, it would be a BIG chopper. The flinger at 4" means it can make a choke, but not block a door (we have door traps for that)

indeed, traps should only operate when the power is on, an that would take some work too, traps insta-kill the base zombies correct?

Not quite, I put some ideas up for how it works. Where would the power switch be? Especially in maps that don't have a 'final' room

The power switch could be in the 3 unlocked room? 1 unlock 2, then 3 with the power. hows that sound?



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Or after the first boss wave the boss drops a component or something

Yeah, spawn in room 1. Move into room 2 or 2a, don't want to force them one way. Then have room 3, with the power, plus 3a and 3b, one for each room. Have the box in room 3 as well, or in 2 or 2a. But whatever we do, don't make the map symmetrical. The traps would be mounted in the entrances to 3, allowing the survivors to hole up in the power and box room with the traps, but also mount more than normal barriers in that room to prevent it being simple.

I can just imagine the awesome complexity of these mechanics and terrain.

Oh yeah, tbh it's not ALL that tricky to work out, you find the parts and once you have them you place the trap when you want to. Pay to open doors, pay for the door traps, pay for the box, use an AP in any case, plus one to turn on the power to activate the traps. The box though doesn't need power it's Tzeentch powered.... Mwahahahaa

i think i have a perfect "counts as" or model for the mystery box.



this is from a predator tank, its ammo for the autocannon.

Absolutely perfect, stick a ? Or an icon of Tzeentch on if we run my fluff, and boom, job done. Power switch is dead simple really, a box on the wall with a handle. Same with the portable traps, the finger is two panels with sprue to hold them, chopper is a big blade on a flat bit, the door ones need a sign above the door or on it for players to find out where and what

 wolfmerc wrote:
Probably for the fluff i would imagine this stand still at the planet, like plague is rampant it has overrun most of the planet the inquisition has taken notice and are ready to exterminatus the planet, but there is something stopping them. What? What is so dear on the planet that it is so dire to keep? could it end the long war? A tool to defeat chaos incarnate? who knows. Maybe since the ordor xenos is known for having many strongholds there, maybe they are responsible for the plague? that would be a plot twist.

Shush merc, stop giving away plot twists

ace101, if you read the rules you'll see that you can choos any standard troop, however space marines do not receive any bonuses like other races do, and i'll probably add setD6zombies per space marine for some balance

also I think we'll be going back to 10 points for perks, marines will get 5

I would actually love to add nid and ork hordes, but mebbe later

Don't get how looting bodies would work, also, by campaign ideas do you mean maps or plot or both?

Why number the rooms? Room by room generation will be random and premade may have more or less, maybe for premade we let the zombie player place it, with some limits of course and for room by room it is placed at the 4/6 (that's a fraction btw) mark

If the perks are ten points each then with the 25 point limit on your character you can only take 2 outright, is that the plan? assuming that you can upgrade your character with perks later, i have no qualms.

I have no problem with your room generation, just keep in mind that players may change some rules or add house rules to get the most fun out of a game as possible, which, in the end, is the whole goal.

No, there are separate points for perks you get 10pts to spend, average stuff costs 3, op stuff costs 5, menial things cost 1, there shouldn't be upgrading or adding more perks as that may well upset the balance

oh i thought the points and perks were all sorted out? I had ironed out the specifics for purchasing items pre game for the players character in the rulebook i posted bottom of page 8.

That's the thing, we both had, what did you put, I think I already edited it for some reason...

Hmm wonky. My thoughts are that 3 perks max can be purchased, players have 25 or 30 points to spend on their character and all perks should have the same cost.

What do ya think?

25 points to spend on what?

wonky? it's 10pts to spend on things depending on their value as an abstraction, we use the same to pick our armies

heres the profile i dug up from the book, i added plenty of options so each character can have plenty of flavor and differences.

heres an example of the options you can buy.

Options:
• May take either a lasgun or a combination of laspistol and chainsword..….……….................……….free
• May Be upgraded to one of the following
o Psyker (master level 1)………………………………………………………………………….…….…….10 pts
o Psyker (master level 2)……………………………………………………………………………….……..15 pts
o Psyker (master level 3)……………………………………………………………………….……………..25 pts
• May choose a maximum of 3 perks………………………………………………..…………………5 pts each
• May take Combat stimulants, Frag / krak / blind grenades, or repair tool……..….......................2 pts each
• May upgrade 2 statistics by one point………………………………...…………….……..…………3 pts each
• May take a shotgun as a starting weapon……………………………………………………….………..10pts


as for the perks, not many stand out as outclassing the others since i had balance in mind when writing them. I might be wrong though, there are A LOT of perks.

I like the psyker levels, but we should do a thing where they are vulnerable to the warp energy,
add a no spess mahreens caveat to the stat upgrades
no starting equipment upgrades, they need to work for it
your perks are pretty even at the moment so we can charge the same for them and 25 points is perfect
let's do it

Agreed
Agreed
Agreed sort of
Agreed
lets do it.

ok maybe we can lower leadership so failing is more frequent? (that pesky warp you.) psykers are already limited as what powers they can choose since they can only choose 1 disciple to draw powers from. i have no problem nerfing em though since the whole idea of the game is to have weapons with ammunition, not reusable pyschic ponsy magic.

Not necessarily Nerf, just make it dangerous