Tim the Thief over at faeit212 wrote:GW will bring back Specialist Games gradually with beginning in the 3th Quarter 2014.
-First Game will be Epic in July or August 2014
-There will be no individual model Boxes or Blister, only Game Sets and possibly "Expansions"
-Sets remain permanent in assortment
-Epic Game Set might feature Space Marines vs. Orks, there will be Sets for Imperial Guard, Eldar and Chaos

No chance in Hell.

Damn, I would love to see Epic make a return.

It's the only GW game I still play.

I can believe it. Limiting the game to a few army sets is a lot simpler (and cheaper, presumably) than what they had before, especially if the re-launch includes moving everything to plastic. And a late-2014 release would mean the new game arrives as the last of the LOTR sales disappear, which is something GW has to be worrying about after how badly the Hobbit game failed.

Finecast.
Epic in the Finecast will be a lot easier to convert. I always wanted a proper messy 6mm miniatures. Love Nurgle.

Why is there no link to the original source this was scraped from?

Could work out if GW makes the main sets and FW makes all the additional troops/options.

Sounds like someones wishlist. They abandoned those for years and years, scrap what they had and suddenly they want to bring it back? I don't buy it (though I would buy Epic if it actually did happen).

I could see them doing an Adeptus Titanicus style one shot game, but full permanent release? Don't think so

I'd love to see the return of Epic. However, if GW provides the same support (IE: little to none) as they did when they had Specialist Games, I'm afraid I won't see anyone else garner any interest for this game. Which would be a shame as it was a fun game.

Yeah not a chance. Any re-release would require the existing models being recut (and in some cases likely completely redone) in plastic. That would require a huge investment on the part of GW in a line that wasn't exactly high selling and one that they have already shown that they have no interest in supporting. Specialist Games might have only been completely cut very recently, but they have been on life support for quite a long time - why would the game suddenly sell better with plastic versions of the same models? (and don't say price, this is GW remember)

I would purchase epic and all factions in a heartbeat. It doesn't need support if treated like a boardgame (i.e good core rules, very little tinkering but models available in expansion sets similar to Memoir44) - which is far better than the way it has been treated in the past.

Its possible but I don't count it as likely. If it does happen there is a real danger that the rules will be 'streamlined' though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Powerguy wrote:
That would require a huge investment on the part of GW in a line that wasn't exactly high selling and one that they have already shown that they have no interest in supporting.

I strongly suspect that it wasn't selling well because it wasn't supported. There was a time when Epic was a 'core game', and for good reason.

OK, bring on the salt!

Powerguy wrote:
Yeah not a chance. Any re-release would require the existing models being recut (and in some cases likely completely redone) in plastic. That would require a huge investment on the part of GW

While I don't believe this rumour for a second, I honestly don't think it would be too much of an expense for GW. With modern tech, they could probably fit everything that was ever released for a given faction in one Sternguard-sized kit.

The real problem would be that players would just need a handful of such boxes to have a huge army and no need to buy more.

Powerguy wrote:
Yeah not a chance. Any re-release would require the existing models being recut (and in some cases likely completely redone) in plastic. That would require a huge investment on the part of GW in a line that wasn't exactly high selling and one that they have already shown that they have no interest in supporting. Specialist Games might have only been completely cut very recently, but they have been on life support for quite a long time - why would the game suddenly sell better with plastic versions of the same models? (and don't say price, this is GW remember)

Interesting points.

I have no experience of CAD or mold making, so I apologise if this is a dumb question, but does designing things on a computer make it possible to 'shrink' existing designs down to 'epic' level? If so, then surely it would help reduce costs, and allow some of the new things in 40K make it into epic?

I, like others would love to see this happen, but doubt it will.

Are we talking about new stuff or just repackaging the (previously) existing items?

 Flood wrote:
OK, bring on the salt!

Need more than that...

You can change 3D computer models to any size you like in the computer, but they would not necessarily work as real world models. For instance, the flow of molten plastic through the moulds is governed by the resistance of the channels, which quadruples if the diameter of the channel is halved. It might be necessary to redesign part of the model to account for this kind of factor.

The original Epic models were cast in metal -- the infantry at least -- from what I remember.

Tim the Thief sure has been spilling out a lot of rumors lately.

Hard to separate what he's "piggy backed" and what he's said for the first time.

I think he's the first one I've seen that said April for Bretonnia, and May for Space Wolves. He also said a lot of specific Ork rules. I guess we'll know how accurate he is then.

I don't buy it though. Doesn't seem like something GW would do. Tim also has specific rules for a release that's at least a few months away still... that's usually a sign of made up stuff.

Models can get spoiled early, but rules rarely do until someone gets their hands on an early WD.

 Erasoketa wrote:
Are we talking about new stuff or just repackaging the (previously) existing items?

Who knows, I'd hope for new stuff.

Tyranids were non existent, Chaos had all their demon engines missing.

If you couldn't actually make a complete army, for, at least most of the factions in 40K, then why bother.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
You can change 3D computer models to any size you like in the computer, but they would not necessarily work as real world models. For instance, the flow of molten plastic through the moulds is governed by the resistance of the channels, which quadruples if the diameter of the channel is halved. It might be necessary to redesign part of the model to account for this kind of factor.

The original Epic models were cast in metal -- the infantry at least -- from what I remember.

In all versions of Epic, Infantry were mostly exclusively in plastic. Promo pieces for Adeptus Titanicus were in metal but quickly switched to plastic. Epic 4 had a smattering of metal infantry (not sure why since they had plastic counterparts). Producing a plastic Epic infantry sprue would be nothing new. It's just the sheer amount of Vehicles and number of them that would soon mount up. For example, here's an average 3000 pts IG force from Epic 4:

Regimental HQ - Supreme Commander, 12 Infantry, 7 Chimera
Tank Company - 10x Leman Russ
Super-Heavy Tank Company - 3x Baneblade
Artillery Company - 9x Basilisk
Reaver Class Titan

And that's just basics. There's so many different variants and options that would be needed that it would quickly mount up

I would love it. As someone who is right now painting up my epic models and having a great time I'd love to see the game resurge.

And while I doubt it'll happen I can see why GW would do it under the new style and how it could work. It would also be another style of gateway.

Whilst I doubt this would happen, I'd be getting into it if it did.

Even if just to play apocalypse on a normal table

The main reason I have to doubt this rumour is the apparent choice of game to bring back. Unless more mystery boxes are planned down the road to do equivalents of Necromunda and/or Mordheim without a Specialist Games tag.

Clearly one of those two makes much more sense as it allows for cross over sales into Fantasy or 40K. Epic is a much bigger risk than GW seems willing to make these days.

 zedmeister wrote:
There's so many different variants and options that would be needed that it would quickly mount up

If GW ever decided they want to revive the game without much effort, they could simply do a single faction sprue with a little bit of everything and call it a day. It would have the added benefit of forcing you to buy a feth ton of stuff you don't need to get three more LRs for your Armoured Company.

And while I understand the scepticism, GW can at times be sensible about it's products. And it's happening more often these days with supplements, digital content and increased release schedule.

I'll throw my voice into the pool of, "I don't believe this", but if somehow it came to pass, I would throw all my money at it.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I'll throw my voice into the pool of, "I don't believe this", but if somehow it came to pass, I would throw all my money at it.

I think that would be a given for many of us.

Please please let the Epic rumours be true, loved that game

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
There's so many different variants and options that would be needed that it would quickly mount up

If GW ever decided they want to revive the game without much effort, they could simply do a single faction sprue with a little bit of everything and call it a day. It would have the added benefit of forcing you to buy a feth ton of stuff you don't need to get three more LRs for your Armoured Company.

And while I understand the scepticism, GW can at times be sensible about it's products. And it's happening more often these days with supplements, digital content and increased release schedule.

Indeed, or they could go even further and as I mentioned, do an Epic Adeptus Titanicus set - Titan V Titan warfare. They'd just need plastic Imperial/Chaos Titans, Eldar Titans, Ork Gargants, Tyranid Bio-titans and finally the Necron/Tau Equivalents. That game would sell so fast the shelves would be ablaze!

I have a speculation, and it is based on the recently published book, Imperial Armor volume 3, second edition.

In the first edition, there was epic, and battlefleet gothic sections.

In the new edition, all the epic stuff is gone.

This it not a good sign for epic, in my opinion.

HOWEVER - The bfg stuff is all still in there, in fact it had been edited a bit (no new rules, just moved the text around a bit for hte stories) and includes the stories, the scenarios and tau rules.

I speculate on this that BFG could return - they bothered to reformat it, and put it in the new book.

May mean nothing...but ....

Ahh, Tim the Thief. If you're so unreliable that even Natfka allows you to have a nickname, you know you're in trouble.

SQUATS OR GTFO

This is Games Workshop were talking about here right? IF this is true it will be in Failcast and limited release at a price point that means that average Joe Blog's cant afford it then forgotten about 6 month's down the line!

overtyrant wrote:
This is Games Workshop were talking about here right? IF this is true it will be in Failcast and limited release at a price point that means that average Joe Blog's cant afford it then forgotten about 6 month's down the line!

4/10: You almost got higher, but you failed to mention Ward or use a 'clever' nickname for a new release. Please try harder in the future.

I will try harder! Lol

Does it really matter if they "come back" when they'll likely just put them down a year or two later yet again? I guess it'll be good for fans of certain sculpts (assuming the don't get changed) to have even temporary access to them again.

I love rumors that put dates out a year + in advance, so by the time that date rolls around, nobody remembers the original rumor or who said it.

 warboss wrote:
Does it really matter if they "come back" when they'll likely just put them down a year or two later yet again?

Just curious if you read the first post:

Tim the Thief wrote:-Sets remain permanent in assortment

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 Brother SRM wrote:
I love rumors that put dates out a year + in advance, so by the time that date rolls around, nobody remembers the original rumor or who said it.

No one remembers, eh? What am I, chopped liver?

Quis custodiet ipsos auditum loquentium?

 pretre wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Does it really matter if they "come back" when they'll likely just put them down a year or two later yet again?

Just curious if you read the first post:

Tim the Thief wrote:-Sets remain permanent in assortment

I did.. but frankly the wording on that is quite clumsy. Permanently in production would be clear but "permanent in assortment" might just mean that there will be one set and nothing added later one via blisters. On top of that, it's a far off rumor and you of all people know that it should be taken with a grain of salt. The only thing we know *FOR CERTAIN* is that GW does absolutely shut down games that they deem not worth their resources/effort even if they're profitable. You'll have to excuse me if I put a bit more faith into what I know GW has done multiple times in the past.

Oh, I agree that GW is more reliable than Tim. But it is the whole idea that if you're going to talk about the rumor, you have to have a certain amount of suspension of disbelief involved. Otherwise, just throw the whole thing out and say 'this sounds nothing like GW', which, amusingly enough, is where I am at right now.

 Jayce_The_Ace wrote:

 Erasoketa wrote:
Are we talking about new stuff or just repackaging the (previously) existing items?

Who knows, I'd hope for new stuff.

Tyranids were non existent, Chaos had all their demon engines missing.

If you couldn't actually make a complete army, for, at least most of the factions in 40K, then why bother.

I had a few Tyranids for the Epic 40k edition of the latter 90's :S

Great news if true!* I mean, these games are still playable, but a new release has a wonderful way of attracting adherents to the latest shiny thing (see: Dreadball)

* The caveat being that hopefully they won't mess too much with the rules (if this is for real.. quick, everyone get writing to them that the Epic Armageddon rules are some of the best the company ever produced! )

Second caveat being that Tim the Thief isn't an anagram of Ghost21, and that all of this is just attention seeking/trolling..

This makes a certain sort of sense, Epic used to be system #3 and could be again if the Hobbit licence was reigned in but I doubt it.

Logic would also suggest that this would cannibalise Apocalypse sales; a games who's apparent popularity escapes me when you could have Epic instead!

 zedmeister wrote:
Sounds like someones wishlist. They abandoned those for years and years, scrap what they had and suddenly they want to bring it back? I don't buy it (though I would buy Epic if it actually did happen).

I'd say that, since they obviously had no intention of continuing the old SG lines (with them being metal and such), scrapping them is exactly what they'd do if they were planning a renewal. Not that I expect this to happen (let alone to be worthwhile if it does), but scrapping the old SGs wouldn't represent a sudden change of heart on the part of GW HQ.

On the plus side we can now look forward to a Mantic 6mm grimdark scifi game.

This is great news!

 notprop wrote:
Logic would also suggest that this would cannibalise Apocalypse sales; a games who's apparent popularity escapes me when you could have Epic instead!

People buy stuff for 40k anyway. Apoc is just a shortcut for those that don't want to bother with house rules and as such I doubt it's tracked as a separate line that could be cut by Epic.

I think "no way in hell" is perhaps insufficiently pessemistic, given GW's track record. I think a somewhat serious re-release of stuff, with a puzzlingly rapid fall-off in support and an ignominious death from being dropped sometime down the road is a far more likely scenario.

Not a fan of those other games myself, but for those who are, here's hoping I'm wrong and GW sees the merit in supporting games people are actually playing.

-C6

I would love for this to be true. 40k seems too small a scale to reflect the scale of the Imperial Guard (or other horde armies I guess).

I will be happier still if horde Imperial Guard is a viable play style.

They will have specialist games again just to close it down for another quick sale!

I doubt it. Epic was quite broadly featured and supported back in the day, with quite a few battle reports in White Dwarf and was considered the third core game. Good game as it was, I think sales just weren't there to justify the resouces being used and it was confined to Specialist Games.

 Erasoketa wrote:

 Jayce_The_Ace wrote:

 Erasoketa wrote:
Are we talking about new stuff or just repackaging the (previously) existing items?

Who knows, I'd hope for new stuff.

Tyranids were non existent, Chaos had all their demon engines missing.

If you couldn't actually make a complete army, for, at least most of the factions in 40K, then why bother.

I had a few Tyranids for the Epic 40k edition of the latter 90's :S

Yeah, they used to do Tyranids, but then they stopped doing them, so if you wanted them you had to hit e-bay, or trading sights - same for chaos stuff other than basic plastic troops.

 Jayce_The_Ace wrote:
Yeah, they used to do Tyranids, but then they stopped doing them, so if you wanted them you had to hit e-bay, or trading sights - same for chaos stuff other than basic plastic troops.

Oh, right, yes, there was a lot of stuff discontinued. I'm sorry, I misundertood you.

pretre wrote:Oh, I agree that GW is more reliable than Tim. But it is the whole idea that if you're going to talk about the rumor, you have to have a certain amount of suspension of disbelief involved. Otherwise, just throw the whole thing out and say 'this sounds nothing like GW', which, amusingly enough, is where I am at right now.

Sadly, I agree with the final comment you've made there. Just doesn't feel in character.

notprop wrote:On the plus side we can now look forward to a Mantic 6mm grimdark scifi game.

This is great news!

Actually.. being able to get very cheap 6mm generic sci-fi troopers would be pretty cool. There are other options (Exodus Wars springs to mind), but not that much, in the prices on ebay for some of the rarer stuff is often horrific. Funnily enough I think it would take GW to release the game for Mantic to consider producing a cheaper alternative, not sure if the sales would be there otherwise.

 Kroothawk wrote:

Tim the Thief over at faeit212 wrote:GW will bring back Specialist Games gradually with beginning in the 3th Quarter 2014.
-First Game will be Epic in July or August 2014
-There will be no individual model Boxes or Blister, only Game Sets and possibly "Expansions"
-Sets remain permanent in assortment
-Epic Game Set might feature Space Marines vs. Orks, there will be Sets for Imperial Guard, Eldar and Chaos

GW could do it. They probably saw Troublemaker Games make a go of it, and they can just reissue the old stuff. I doubt they'll make any new sprues, though. Maybe new Rhinos to match the new ones.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

Surprised someone like Fantasy Flight has not tried to scoop up Necromunda and place it in the other RPG driven games. I could see GW doing a Titan only game at some point but I would not hold my breath on that one.

I can definitely see it happening. After all, they'll need a place where they can leave Warhammer Fantasy to rot unsupported after it's lost the last of its momentum in 2015 or so.

But seriously: No salt required, I'm willing to bet this is 100% made up. We'll sooner see pigs fly than GW publishing anything on this scale without knowing first that it will perform within their desired profit margins.

There was talk a couple of years back about FW picking up Epic and releasing a revamped Titanicus game. While that never eventuated, I can really see this happening as a black box game. I would be all over it too.

Imperium vs Eldar for example. half a dozen titans on either side. Say, a Warlord, a Reaver and 4 Warhounds against a pair of Phantom titans and 4 Revenants. Throw in a handful of ruins ala the old e40k set and you'd have a great game. Release a couple of expansion boxes covering orcs and renegades/chaos and it'd sell like hot-cakes.

The best part of this is that while many want Specialist Games to return, even more never bought a single one. I own a ton of 1st/2nd edition Epic, back when I bought, it was still available in stores. A few of us played it until Epic 40k came out.

But seriously, out of the people who want it to come back, do you own any Necromunda/Inquisitor/Epic/Warmaster?

 notprop wrote:
This makes a certain sort of sense, Epic used to be system #3 and could be again if the Hobbit licence was reigned in but I doubt it.

Note the timing of this supposed new game: around the time the last Hobbit movie is released. And given that the Hobbit has been a complete failure even with the "hype" of the movies to boost sales I think even GW can figure out that there isn't much long-term potential once the movies are gone. Relaunching some of the specialist games might replace some of that lost income.

Logic would also suggest that this would cannibalise Apocalypse sales; a games who's apparent popularity escapes me when you could have Epic instead!

I doubt it. Apocalypse is all about the cool models, and you don't really get that with Epic-scale stuff.

Relapse wrote:
I doubt it. Epic was quite broadly featured and supported back in the day, with quite a few battle reports in White Dwarf and was considered the third core game. Good game as it was, I think sales just weren't there to justify the resouces being used and it was confined to Specialist Games.

But look at the rumored plan for the new Epic: single boxes for each army, probably in plastic. That means production costs are as low as possible, and GW doesn't have to deal with keeping an inventory of tons of different low-demand single models. It's exactly what I'd expect GW to do if they wanted to re-launch Epic in a more profitable form.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

But seriously, out of the people who want it to come back, do you own any Necromunda/Inquisitor/Epic/Warmaster?

Yes, yes, yes and yes. As well as Bloodbowl, Mordheim and BFG. Thing is there are alternatives now for most of them if people really wanted to play that style of game.

*EDIT* Swapped Two Posts... Double Fail!*

I suspect that if specialist games were brought back they would be limited releases - get it now or it'll be gone!

No expansions - you will get what they put in the box.

So... Epic would be to whatever the new game would be as Man of War was to Dreadfleet.

The Auld Grump

I don't know.

It seems to make a lot of sense to me, to make it more self-contained, and market as a board game instead of a miniature game (Similar to Dust or any other such game)

But then: It makes sense, which doesn't seem to be how GW operates.

But seriously, out of the people who want it to come back, do you own any Necromunda/Inquisitor/Epic/Warmaster?

Absolutely. I have been with Necromunda since it started in the 1990's and have 4-5 functioning gangs and tons of terrain. I also own three gangs in Gorkamorka (Rebel Grots!), three sizeable fleets for Battlefleet Gothic, and even some Inquisitor stuff.

I am enough into Battlefleet Gothic that after Specialist went under, I have scrounged all the Vassal Sprites I can find off the internet, and between what already exists and by using MSpaint to manipulate things, I can print out ship flats for 90% of the options for every BFG fleet but Tyranids.

Does anyone remember the massive 6ft tall White Dwarf terrain piece for Necromunda a guy built, that looked like the cross section of a building? I actually build one of those for myself in highschool.

Quite into Mordheim at the moment, but don't need it to "come back." The rules are free and appropriate miniatures are available through GW's existing range (with the exception of Sisters of Sigmar).

I play Necro regularly and love it. I'd love it if GW supported it with new models and updated/collected rules, but thankfully the online community for it is pretty solid.

GW doesn't like making money, if they decide to do it it has to be in their very stubborn, limited way. So unlikely. If they do, they'll likely horde all the unpurchased specialist boxes after a few weeks in the stores and burn them like they did with Dreadfleet.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
The best part of this is that while many want Specialist Games to return, even more never bought a single one. I own a ton of 1st/2nd edition Epic, back when I bought, it was still available in stores. A few of us played it until Epic 40k came out.

But seriously, out of the people who want it to come back, do you own any Necromunda/Inquisitor/Epic/Warmaster?

If you look at the threads about Specialist Games shutting down, it seemed like most posts were saying someone or a group of someones were planning on buying but never seemed to get around to it. This is the reason Specialist shut down. People were planning to buy but never actually putting out any cash. A business can't run on people's unacted upon intentions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:

Relapse wrote:
I doubt it. Epic was quite broadly featured and supported back in the day, with quite a few battle reports in White Dwarf and was considered the third core game. Good game as it was, I think sales just weren't there to justify the resouces being used and it was confined to Specialist Games.

But look at the rumored plan for the new Epic: single boxes for each army, probably in plastic. That means production costs are as low as possible, and GW doesn't have to deal with keeping an inventory of tons of different low-demand single models. It's exactly what I'd expect GW to do if they wanted to re-launch Epic in a more profitable form.

I will have to put it in the believe it when I see it catagory.

Relapse wrote:
If you look at the threads about Specialist Games shutting down, it seemed like most posts were saying someone or a group of someones were planning on buying but never seemed to get around to it. This is the reason Specialist shut down. People were planning to buy but never actually putting out any cash. A business can't run on people's unacted upon intentions.

Sure, but how much of that was because of how obvious it was that GW was leaving the specialist games to die? It's hard to move beyond "that looks kind of cool, maybe someday" when nobody plays the game in-store (and you're not even allowed to play it in some GW stores), half the models are out of production, and the chances of ever getting any updates or new releases are about the same as the chances of GW selling $10 tactical squads. A re-launched version with proper support would be a much more appealing product, especially if it's sold as single-box armies that let you get into it with a single purchase.

 Peregrine wrote:

Sure, but how much of that was because of how obvious it was that GW was leaving the specialist games to die?

This is classic net-thinking. People didn't buy epic 40k because they didn't want to, it's not like gw put a sign up above Epic stuff on the webstore saying "this is gak, go away". It was a very old system, nothing about it was shiny or cool or desirable.

For a re-vamped version to be successful it has to follow the formula of 40k - fluff-heavy rulebooks, a dollop of original artwork, and solid, simple rules. Hopefully not just a 12 page black and white booklet or worse, a free pdf.

^Exactly. All GW had to do to make money off of the Specialist Games was to actually support them. Even if it was just a yearly splash release (i.e. release the BFG boxed game and the core models, and have it in White Dwarf for a few months to keep it visible), that would still bring people into it. The problem, however, is GW's mistaken belief that people buying little spaceships are people not buying Space Marines instead. When, in reality, many of the people buying those little spaceships would be people who would not otherwise be spending their money on GW product to begin with.

 Peregrine wrote:

Relapse wrote:
If you look at the threads about Specialist Games shutting down, it seemed like most posts were saying someone or a group of someones were planning on buying but never seemed to get around to it. This is the reason Specialist shut down. People were planning to buy but never actually putting out any cash. A business can't run on people's unacted upon intentions.

Sure, but how much of that was because of how obvious it was that GW was leaving the specialist games to die? It's hard to move beyond "that looks kind of cool, maybe someday" when nobody plays the game in-store (and you're not even allowed to play it in some GW stores), half the models are out of production, and the chances of ever getting any updates or new releases are about the same as the chances of GW selling $10 tactical squads. A re-launched version with proper support would be a much more appealing product, especially if it's sold as single-box armies that let you get into it with a single purchase.

For years, from the early to late 90's, Epic had the same exposure and promotion that 40k and Warhammer did. Every third White Dwarf battle report was Epic as it rotated with Warhammer and 40k. It eventualy went to Specialist games in an effort to keep it going because people were not buying enough for it to remain one of the core games it used to be. If 40k or Warhammer had the same sales figures, they would have seen the same fate.
I use Epic as the example because it was the most prominent and long lived of the Specialist line, but I imagine the same is true of any of the other Specialist games. After the initial people bought the product, GW saw sales figures slow to the point it wasn't viable to keep the games going and pulled the plug on them.
I am very dissappointed Epic, Warmaster, and BFG are not being produced anymore as I like playing the games a lot and have a good selection of forces from each of the systems. I am one of the people that would be first in line buy new product for any of those games, but I also accept the fact I never really saw any of them being played at any of the several FLGS's in my area outside of the same 10 people, including myself, that would rotate between these stores. Each store had a large amount of space dedicated to these games and over time ended up first removing it from their shelves and putting it in the back room due to lack of sales, then ebaying it after our group had puchased all we were going to of it.
I think it would be a safe bet that story can be repeated enough throughout the world tha GW saw no point in continuing the various games.

GW had stopped putting out it's plastic stuff by the time I started looking into it, and so I never got around to buying anything because it was just so idiotically expensive.

I actually have one of the plastic Space Marine sprues, and if I could get more Epic stuff in that form, I would get into the game in very short order. It looked like a really cool game.

Someone told me FFG bought the rights to all the GW specialist games (not sure if correct though)

That being said I would love to have played Epic 40k, I like the scale of the minis and I cant really play DZC (even though I would love to) or FOW because they are too expensive and nobody in my FLGS supports them..

Although if what I have heard about is correct, then I think it would be interesting to see BFG done... X-wing style...

 happygolucky wrote:
Someone told me FFG bought the rights to all the GW specialist games (not sure if correct though)

99,999% in favour of "not in this reality, pal".

I mean, GW selling IP property? When pigs fly over frozen hell.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 happygolucky wrote:
Someone told me FFG bought the rights to all the GW specialist games (not sure if correct though)

99,999% in favour of "not in this reality, pal".

I mean, GW selling IP property? When pigs fly over frozen hell.

Well FFG does all the 40k and WHFB RPG's and have done a good job of it imo, so it wouldn't surprise me tbh, I mean there not even using it now these days..

 happygolucky wrote:
Someone told me FFG bought the rights to all the GW specialist games (not sure if correct though)

That being said I would love to have played Epic 40k, I like the scale of the minis and I cant really play DZC (even though I would love to) or FOW because they are too expensive and nobody in my FLGS supports them..

Although if what I have heard about is correct, then I think it would be interesting to see BFG done... 40k style...

What we have done here is run campaigns using Epic, BFG and 40k. BFG the means of moving armies to the various systems or controling areas of space, with 40K being more of the leadup to the bigger Epic battles.

Relapse wrote:

 happygolucky wrote:
Someone told me FFG bought the rights to all the GW specialist games (not sure if correct though)

That being said I would love to have played Epic 40k, I like the scale of the minis and I cant really play DZC (even though I would love to) or FOW because they are too expensive and nobody in my FLGS supports them..

Although if what I have heard about is correct, then I think it would be interesting to see BFG done... 40k style...

What we have done here is run campaigns using Epic, BFG and 40k. BFG the means of moving armies to the various systems or controling areas of space, with 40K being more of the leadup to the bigger Epic battles.

Awesome sounds like a fun campaign

Seriously, if it made it more likely due to not needing to make new molds, I would be perfectly happy playing with newly released versions of the Epic troop and vehicle minis from the 90's. Just dig up the molds, and make new packages.

Relapse wrote:
I use Epic as the example because it was the most prominent and long lived of the Specialist line, but I imagine the same is true of any of the other Specialist games. After the initial people bought the product, GW saw sales figures slow to the point it wasn't viable to keep the games going and pulled the plug on them.

That was the usual cycle I witnessed. Game came out, everybody bought it in droves. As the different armies/gangs/fleets/teams/etc, were fleshed out, everybody bought them up. And then there were no new models to release, so nobody bought anymore. That's why a yearly release cycle would do wonders for the Specialist Games. Release one every year, and by the time, say, BFG's turn comes around again five years later, there's a whole crop of new players ready to buy into it.

 happygolucky wrote:
Well FFG does all the 40k and WHFB RPG's and have done a good job of it imo, so it wouldn't surprise me tbh, I mean there not even using it now these days..

These are licensed, not sold, just like the WH themed board and card games FFG makes. GW has the mentality of a rabid wolverine when it comes to IP territory control and will not give away an inch of what they hold. No wonder really, that's the core asset of the company.

So no, I don't think any revival of Specialist Games will come from FFG.

 happygolucky wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 happygolucky wrote:
Someone told me FFG bought the rights to all the GW specialist games (not sure if correct though)

That being said I would love to have played Epic 40k, I like the scale of the minis and I cant really play DZC (even though I would love to) or FOW because they are too expensive and nobody in my FLGS supports them..

Although if what I have heard about is correct, then I think it would be interesting to see BFG done... 40k style...

What we have done here is run campaigns using Epic, BFG and 40k. BFG the means of moving armies to the various systems or controling areas of space, with 40K being more of the leadup to the bigger Epic battles.

Awesome sounds like a fun campaign

It is pretty awsome, having different maps for the various theatres in the campaign. It could be recreated by cutting and pasting pictures in appropriate size on tiles for Epic and BFG for whatever forces you wished to play. We used to do that for Warmaster to see how we liked the way an army played before we went in and bought it. The table would be full of tiles designating unit types and it played just like the normal game, but without the actual miniatures. Once we saw we enjoyed an army, we went out and got it, saving money realizing we didn't like the way other armies ran.

GW would rather destroy the molds and never produce the IP material ever again than let anyone else get any money out of it- which is why it's baffling to me as to why they won't just SELL the stuff themselves!!!

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Seriously, if it made it more likely due to not needing to make new molds, I would be perfectly happy playing with newly released versions of the Epic troop and vehicle minis from the 90's. Just dig up the molds, and make new packages.

I wish there were enough people like you to make that option viable. It would be great having new opponents.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

Relapse wrote:
I use Epic as the example because it was the most prominent and long lived of the Specialist line, but I imagine the same is true of any of the other Specialist games. After the initial people bought the product, GW saw sales figures slow to the point it wasn't viable to keep the games going and pulled the plug on them.

That was the usual cycle I witnessed. Game came out, everybody bought it in droves. As the different armies/gangs/fleets/teams/etc, were fleshed out, everybody bought them up. And then there were no new models to release, so nobody bought anymore. That's why a yearly release cycle would do wonders for the Specialist Games. Release one every year, and by the time, say, BFG's turn comes around again five years later, there's a whole crop of new players ready to buy into it.

It would hinge on if the production costs could be recouped. I imagine that GW could be a tad gunshy on that since there is stuff available on ebay that could possibly undercut it's sales.

Hell, yeah. I could probably happily play Epic using just the plastic stuff that came out in the "Space Marine/Titan Legions" era, or just afterwards. I have seen it in pictures, but don't own any of it other than a very small pile of random Guard troops/sentinels/robots from a boxed platoon, bought when I was about 12.

If I could get enough of the (most recent) Space Marine plastic sprues for tanks and troops as new product, I would absolutely buy them, too.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Hell, yeah. I could probably happily play Epic using just the plastic stuff that came out in the "Space Marine/Titan Legions" era, or just afterwards. I have seen it in pictures, but don't own any of it other than a very small pile of random Guard troops/sentinels/robots from a boxed platoon, bought when I was about 12.

If I could get enough of the (most recent) Space Marine plastic sprues for tanks and troops as new product, I would absolutely buy them, too.

It's too bad you don't live here. My group could have you kitted out and running in our games in short order.

 happygolucky wrote:
That being said I would love to have played Epic 40k, I like the scale of the minis and I cant really play DZC (even though I would love to) or FOW because they are too expensive and nobody in my FLGS supports them..

I'm not familiar with DZC, but there's no way Epic would be cheaper to play than FoW. It's a shame no-one in your FLGS plays it though, that's a harder one to overcome.

Epic is an awesome game, but it occurs to me that its main problem in the current incarnation is that it doesn't have THAT much higher a model count than 40k. I mean, it does things BETTER, but for "having lots of stuff on the table" it's about the same, but much, much smaller. For a very largely model based hobby, this is actually a bit of a problem.

What they need is a newer Adeptus Titanicus version, focusing on walking skyscrapers pummeling each other while infantry and tanks scurry out of the way like insects. If they then keep the current Epic rules on the website for people to play a very good 6mm game, so much the better!

Relapse wrote:
It would hinge on if the production costs could be recouped. I imagine that GW could be a tad gunshy on that since there is stuff available on ebay that could possibly undercut it's sales.

Actually, based on the costs things are going for on Ebay GW would have to price ridiculously higher than they currently do for 40k products to not be undercutting the resellers. It might not even have been a bad idea to kill and sell off all specialist games a year or two before starting them up in the way noted in the OP.

That said I'm not holding my breath no matter how much I love BFG and Epic.

Relapse wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

For years, from the early to late 90's, Epic had the same exposure and promotion that 40k and Warhammer did. Every third White Dwarf battle report was Epic as it rotated with Warhammer and 40k. It eventualy went to Specialist games in an effort to keep it going because people were not buying enough for it to remain one of the core games it used to be.

One of the problems with Epic was when they 'reworked' the rules in the late 90's and the end result was badly received. After that Epic was basically allowed to die. I wonder how the LoTR sales are looking these days in comparison to late 90's Epic sales.
Specalist games could easily be kept alive, all that would be needed would be to allow Forgeworld to operate them.