I've played Khador, Trolls and I'm currently playing CoC, how does Cygnar play?

I like CoC, but I'm liking the look of the Cygnar models and their blue colour scheme.

Any pointers on how they play please?

Very well.

I haven't seen a Cygnar army in the flesh since the beginning of Mark II, but they are very diverse. Depending on some casters (eHaley) they can completely control the battlefield and do all sorts of mischief.

They are mostly a shooting based army, with excellent units such as Long gunners. But they are no where near as tough as Khador and Trolls, at least armour wise.

Cgynar is kind of weird to play. They're extremely powerful, have the most consistently good casters in the game, hands down the most powerful Colossal, and more options than anyone else.

Here's where it gets odd. All of those amazing options? Very few of them get used regularly. For example the Stormblade Captain which recently came out is a 2 point P+S 13 weapon master with reach, a rng 8 pow 14 gun, quick work(can shoot after killing a model in melee) relentless Charge, gives friendly Stormnouns relentless charge and the ability to draw LoS through other Stormnouns and advance through them. Pretty freaking amazing right? He's not a character so you'd expect to see him in pretty much every list with Stormnouns and quite a few lists without them. But you don't. The general consensus is there are better ways to spend those two points and you rarely see him on the table.

You run into this all of the time.

New Stormguard unit pretty good at holding objectives as they can't be charged in their front arc, Boomhowlers are better so you don't see them.

Stormcallers: Triangulation allows a three 1 point solos to stand in a triangle and put out 9 pow 10 shots that ignore DEF. Yes you read that right, your entire unit of Kayazee can be wiped out with the equivalent of a 3 point unit. For some reason I've never seen them played outside of Nemo2's tier list

Sentinels: a 4-point shield guard jack that can put out 1d6 shots per turn. I've never seen a Cygnar player other than myself put one on the table.

Chargers: 4- point ROF2 POW 12 gun with powerful attack. I never see them outside of battlebox games.

Longgunners; Previous post talks about how good these are and they are. I've never seen them on the table.

Here's the best pointers I can give you. If you're thinking of picking up Cygnar DO NOT go to Cygnar forums and ask for advice. Cygnar players are spoiled for options and tend to take only the "best" models and ignore perfectly good models that any other faction would love to have. Read the book, play what looks interesting, ignore everyone who tells you to play eHaley 2x Stormwall, and never, ever, under any circumstances, unless your opponent specifically asks you to do so, and even then think twice play pHaley in a friendly game.

Cygnar is a very weird faction to play. The general idea is to wear down opposing forces with ranged power and close in for the kill/scenario after you have ruined their fighting power. It can be hard to contest scenario zones with them and nearly impossible to grind out a prolonged combat and come out on top. Without scenarios Cygnar hangs way back and goes for a late assassination. They have great jacks but little support for them outside of warcasters directly intervening. They have infantry that have high offense and carry nice secondary effects but no way to deliver such glass cannons who die very easily.

The main strength of the army is in generally high accuracy and strange targeting mechanisms. This extends to cool tricks like lightning leaping from one model to the next and autohitting to a minuteman jumping into a group of infantry and activating it's flak field. (which also autohits) Combine this with a very good ranged presence and easy access to guns for an army that can easily scalpel out high-priority threats.

Cygnar also makes great use of many mercenaries, giving access to over a dozen extra power solos and several good character units.

One of the weaknesses of the army is that very little is more evasive than a one ton hunk of steel and that they seem to make armor from paper mache. Everything dies very easily so any time they can shoot back or charge very far it is bad news. This is amplified by the lack of a durable front line unit. Boomhowler's mercs are just about the only thing you can have run out front and expect to still be there next turn.

A second weakness is generally high points costs for both good and bad choices. Cygnar infantry has a lot of dead weight from units that are too pricy to shine at their given role.

Right now the faction is supposed to be at the top of the competitive scene but I haven't won a game with them in a long time. Like I said, very weird to play.

Cygnar generally lacks infantry clearing capabilities. Those stormsmith callers? They really only function very very well if certain conditions are met, such as them being up to 20" away from each other and being able to see their targets. Which is going to be hard to do against any skilled opponent.

Chargers generally aren't taken because they're just not worth the point cost. Same for Sentinels. For 4 points, you can get the B13, which gives you Ryan, which gives you a 4" AOE that's just flat POW 12 ALL AROUND. And stays in play as a cloud and damage effect. Plus they eat up focus, which most casters want.

Long gunners are good but basically, they're fairly expensive. And they suffer from basically just being a gunline unit without any real frills.

The Stormblade captain? He's awesome. If you run stormnouns. The more stormnouns you run, the better he becomes. He's very useful if you run stormlances since they don't have natural relentless charge for some reason.

Silverline are pretty good imo, but haven't tried them out yet since I've been playing PoM the best 2+ mths. However, they are still armor 15 so they need some arcane shielding.

I think Cygnar just suffers from too much shootiness and not enough beatiness, which is an issue about gunlines in general.

Sining wrote:

Chargers generally aren't taken because they're just not worth the point cost. Same for Sentinels. For 4 points, you can get the B13, which gives you Ryan, which gives you a 4" AOE that's just flat POW 12 ALL AROUND. And stays in play as a cloud and damage effect. Plus they eat up focus, which most casters want.

That was my exact point. Pretty much any other faction would kill for a Sentinel, I would love a cheap ranged warbeast with shield guard in Skorne, I would gladly pay 4 points for one, depending on the animus(ie Far Strike) I might be willing to pay 5 points.

Except you have to look for in-faction options. Just because certain factions would love some stuff doesn't mean Cygnar would. I could just as easily say Cygnar would love some mortar crews because range 24" (with snipe) 4" AOEs at POW 16? Who wouldn't love that. Or doom reavers. But it wouldn't make sense because Cygnar can't take those anyway.

It should be noted as awesome as Cygnar is at shooting (and I've seen/been on the receiving end of games that end on turn 2 to poor placement), most of that shooting is low POW.

My first game against eHaley was a brutal uphill slog...which ended with my opponent conceding because I killed his heavy hitters, while managing to keep mine (mostly) intact. He literally had nothing left that could do enough damage to my caster/jacks to stop me from culling delicious souls.

That's not always normal of Cygnar overall, but if you're playing a gunline cracking armor (usually) can be tough.

 22cthulu wrote:
Pretty much any other faction would kill for a Sentinel, I would love a cheap ranged warbeast with shield guard in Skorne, I would gladly pay 4 points for one, depending on the animus(ie Far Strike) I might be willing to pay 5 points.

Of course you would take a beast with the same stats and attributes as a Cygnar light jack. So would any Cygnar player. The difference is that a beast with the same capabilities as a jack is going to be much more independent and not drain resources to go above and beyond normal expectations. A rng10 pow10 rat6 sentinel struggles to get results without focus allocation. I don't want to get into the whole focus vs. fury debate here since it is off topic but your example is comparing apples and oranges.

If the faction could operate as if it had fury it would be a super powerful best faction. If it got the kind of jack support that protectorate has from their choir Cygnar would immediately become a jack faction. With nothing but focus and upkeeps to back up those jacks, as they are now, additional jacks are resource hogs that a player can't afford to over-commit to -no matter how much he or she wants to.


I think this thread has become a bit too negative and given the wrong impression to the OP though. Cygnar needs to get an early advantage and control the tempo of the game to win but when they do, they are remarkably effective. Every faction has their strengths and weaknesses and managing these is part of playing any faction well. Some are more difficult to overcome than others. Cygnar has at least two top-level casters who can bring home trophies. The faction has an uncanny valley of effectiveness that I think you can see here. Cygnar works very well at high and low levels of play but they crumble miserably in intermediate levels. This is a feature that seems to be unique to Cygnar and brings in those very strange play experiences and the weirdness that many people have stated here.

Something else to keep in mind is that Cygnar has the largest selection of mercenaries out of all the factions. I think Cygnar was designed with that in mind, highborn mercs are basically part of the faction.

Ok, thanks for the advice.

Just some quick questions...

Is Cygnar a Jack Faction?
What's wrong with pHaley?
What's a good starting point with pNemo?

I basically want to play Cygnar as some of the models kick ass and I want to go Jack heavy without using Darius.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I know PoM are a great Jack force, but I hate the Jack models.

Their infantry and heavy infantry are amongst my favourite models.

Cygnar aren't really a Jack army to be totally honest. This is because they have few casters outside of Darius who are actually able to support their Jacks with spells, rather than giving them focus.

Ahhhh so rather than have the buffs over a control area that Karchev, Butcher and Syntherion have, Cygnar lacks this?

Isn't there a way to run Cygnar Jacks efficiently aside from Darius?

I don´t know how it looks like in very competetive environments but Cygnar has lots of Jack Marshals, some with very nice drives.
Compared to Khador you can play Cygnar very Jack heavy. You often can play like 2 heavys and 2 lights without problems.

Puscifer wrote:
Ahhhh so rather than have the buffs over a control area that Karchev, Butcher and Syntherion have, Cygnar lacks this?

Isn't there a way to run Cygnar Jacks efficiently aside from Darius?

How competitive is your region?

This by itself will be a significant determinant of the success of 'other builds.' In a relatively less-competitive meta, then you have much greater flexibility in what you run. The more competitive it is, the less flexibility you will have.

Generally speaking, Cygnar does not run jack heavy. That's one of the reasons Stormwall has become so popular- he gives /much/ greater focus efficiency than other options.

Puscifer wrote:
Ok, thanks for the advice.

Just some quick questions...

Is Cygnar a Jack Faction?
What's wrong with pHaley?
What's a good starting point with pNemo?

Not really, there are some casters who can do some interesting things with jacks, like Kraye, Nemo, Darius, and you can maybe count Kara Sloan. I took a Kraye list to a 35 point tournament recently and ran 32 points of jacks and won both games that I dropped him.

pHaley is probably the most boring caster to play/play against. She has a spell that prevents your enemy from running or charging in her control, so basically her army sits in her control area and shoots, and your opponent has the choice of walking his guys forward and attacking(probably going to get charged) or sitting back and shooting.

pNemo, pick up Jr. Warcaster, Strangeways the squire and for higher point games Aiyanna and Holdt, Tactical Arcanist Corps, or Alexia so you're sitting at 10+ focus per turn. Then get an Arc Node( I think Thorne is worth the extra points here), a beat stick like the Thunderhead, Stormclad or Ol Rowdy, hell if you're feeling frisky grab two heavies, and maybe a charger. After that go to town.

Wow. There is a lot of misinformation so far...

OP please take this entire thread with a grain of salt and check up on other resources. While the PP forums are far from perfect there is a lot of good information there. Battlecollege tends to have a lot of errors, but it has been getting much better and will give you another viewpoint. You can even look over some of the older threads here at Dakka and get some differing viewpoints. Hopefully you will then be able to take that information along with the rules and mechanics of the game and put them to use.

Here are my thoughts on Cygnar as someone who has played them since shortly after MK II came out. And my warning above applies to this just as much.

Cygnar are primarily a shooting faction. But they usually cannot win by shooting alone when playing scenarios. Combined arms is pretty important with them. Other than shooting Cygnar tends to be well rounded. This is good and bad. They are not the best at most things, but not the worst. So you need to pay a lot of attention to their matchups. Target Priority and planning ahead make them a faction that I feel is a bit tougher to learn than many others.

Cygnar does have some decent options of going jack heavy, melee beatstick force, infantry clearing, armor clearing or whatever. Like I said they are fairly well rounded and tend to have an ability to deal with just about everything. They just don't tend to excel at any one thing. And for newer people it often helps to be able to do one thing and do it very well. But once you learn your tools and learn the game Cygnar can do very well. Cygnar is like a toolbox. You just need to bring the right tools for the job.

There are definitely some hit and miss units in Cygnar. But most of them can be effective if used properly. It's just sometimes you feel certain units get more bang for your buck. This is not a Cygnar issue. Every faction has this. But if you like long gunners or sentinels then by all means play them!

Cygnar has more access to mercenaries than any other faction. This helps a lot in making them even more well-rounded and have even more options. Sometimes the merc options tend to overshadow the in faction ones. And some people only want to play "pure" cygnar. That's fine if you want to play it fluffy and that is what you want. But mechanics and balance wise they were designed with access to mercs in mind. Neither side is wrong. Just two different ways to play the game.

There are some great warcasters. eHaley is arguably the best caster in the game. And we have casters of almost every type. But again it comes down a lot to personal style and preference. Play what you like and build a good army around them and you can do just fine. Player skill is more important in this game than your list.

Otherwise I think Dais has some very good comments. I tried to debunk (i.e. give my own viewpoint) to some of the others.

Puscifer wrote:
Ok, thanks for the advice.

Just some quick questions...

Is Cygnar a Jack Faction?
What's wrong with pHaley?
What's a good starting point with pNemo?

I basically want to play Cygnar as some of the models kick ass and I want to go Jack heavy without using Darius.

1) Cygnar isn't really a jack faction. Cygnar tends to have a lot of 6 focus warcasters that want to participate in the fight themselves (both caines, siege, sloan, striker, etc.). Which means they often want to use their own focus leaving little for their jacks to use themselves. Cygnar does have the nemo, darius and kraye but even they don't run more than 3-4 jacks a lot of times.

Cygnar does have two of the best jack marshals in the game (IMO) the main one being arcane tempest gun mage officer attachment. He gives the jack marhsal bonus and rune bullets (which gives them the attack types of the gun mage unit as long as the UA is alive). The gun mage officer (often called "the dude" online) runs things like hunters, sentinels (you don't get attack types on the strafe), and cyclones. I love the cyclone personally on this guy the ability to put out covering fire or just walk up and do 2d3 thunderbolt shots to push enemy heavies out of the zones in scenerio play is nice. The other one is the sword knight UA which is both a jack marshal and has a drive for pronto. People don't like sword knights though, especially online since they are more finesse than other basic grunt infantry that you see in other factions.

Also Arlan Strangewayes solo is good for supporting your jacks. Both power booster and evasive spells are solid and he can fix the jacks as well. Evasive is really good to help get cygnar ranged jacks out of sticky situations.

2) Problem with pHaley is that she has a bad reputation really and most people don't get past temporal barrier (which is really good spell I will admit). That said personally I think the caster is rather cool and has a lot of more tricks than just temporal barrier spam. Also you can't hide behind the barrier anymore, it only works if your opponent STARTS his activation in haleys control area.

3) Haven't played pNemo at all so I can't really comment there.

Cygnar jacks have pretty good statlines afaik. A natural mat 7/rat 6 on their ironclad chasis jacks. That's ELITE status in other factions. For example, Beast09, a pure killing machine has mat 7...something which cygnar warjacks have by default it seems, including a defender. Which is a shooting warjack. It's not impossible to play Cygnar jack heavy, just harder to. Kraye I find is pretty good with warjacks.

For pNemo, depends on how you want to play. I like to play him with squire, the Tactical Arcanist corps and other lightning immune stuff. Give him a good beat-face warjack like the Stormclad, load him 5 focus, locomotion him up and add hunters mark to it and then watch things die.

Well there are some must haves.

Gunmages and ua
squire
JWC
blazers

If the caster has a good gun , taking the gobber speculator is a must .

some sort of a tar pit infantry unit is needed , but there are a few good options for those most of which are merc , not that there is anything wrong about mercs .

If someone takes two heavis one shoting and one melee it is offten better to take Stormwall instead , unless your playing Kray .

the SB cpt gives options to ton of combos as long as stormnouns are run .

blazers are more or less the multi wound infantry cygnar always wanted , good def stats , huge range , good dmg , fast with pathfinder.

Rowdy and Stormclad are our melee jacks . Stormclad is a bit less offten used now that the stormwall is there , but Rowdy is awesome ,very focus efficient so he can make it in to list with casters that don't have the focus to support other jacks , like ecain for example.


There is a lot of stuff that is technicly good or that could be good if scenarios were different or meta game was different . Long Gunners , Grendariers etc fall in to that cathegory.

This is the thing that I'm seeing with Cygnar...

The synergies are a lot harder to spot compared to Trolls and CoC.

The entire army seems to have answer to everything and that their main weakness is that they are rather squishy as they have no heavy infantry like MoW, Troll Champs and those PoM monsters that just won't die.

Should I approach Cygnar as a combined forces army? It seems like I should.

I'm making a list of units I like in the army, I'll post them up later once I'm done for the day at work, I would like some feedback on my choices if that's ok?

I'd suggest starting with a caster and then seeing what units work with them. Cygnar even more so than other I feel needs to start at the top.

Well I got the Cygnar Battlebox and Kraye today.

The box I thought was a good starting point, but Kraye is my favourite model in the entire Cygnar range and it was going cheap too.

I also have Eiryss and Reinholdt left from my Khador army.

So far my list of kool stuff I want to get is:

Both versions of Caine.
All the Nemo.
eStryker.

All the Jacks, except Gallant.

Gun Mages + UA.
Rangers.
Stormblades plus all the trimmings.
Storm Tower.
Black 13th.
Sword Knights + UA.

Gun Mage Captain.
JWC.
Squire.
Stormblade Captain.
Stormcallers.
Pendrake.
Strangewayes.
Archduke.

Stormstrider.

Devil Dogs + Jonas.
Rutger and Taryn.
Raluk.

Many of those are just choices because I like the models.

As for how competitive the local Meta is... I have no idea as I've just moved back here.

It used to be really competitive. I won a set of Gold bordered cards with my Khador army years ago and that was a very tough tourney.

I played the cygnar battlebox for a 5 week journeyman league and in all honestly it is a really good battlebox if you know what you are doing. One of the key ways cygnar tends to play is always looking for the ranged assassination when you can. A charger with 3 focus shooting a warcaster knocked down by earthquake can end games real quick.

Striker is a good starter caster since he has a good general set of abilities and works well with most cygnar units.

If you are going to get merc units I would really suggest Greygore Boomhowler & Co. over anything else. They are much better front line unit than any in faction option really and have won me games by clogging zones. They are really good once you start buffing them with arcane shield or blur and also deadeye allows them to actually hit something with their guns.

Puscifer wrote:
Well I got the Cygnar Battlebox and Kraye today.

Battlecollege has a decent write up of Kraye
http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/mkiiKraye

Write up here on Dakka
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Captain_Jeremiah_Kraye

A nice write up on the PP boards. Read down multiple posts.
http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?8647-Cygnaran-Tacticas-Captain-Jeremiah-Kraye

The one thing I'd add that none of the write ups say is a good unit to take might be Tempest blazers. They can keep up and don't need much in the way of support. They are not really mentioned because the tempest blazers are pretty darn new.

There was also someone who did really well with Kraye on the tourney scene a year or two ago I believe. You might be able to do some searches on the PP site to find out his list and some of the tactics he used.

I completely forgot about Boomhowler.

I had a look at the Blazers, they seem ok. Definitely worth a look in with Kraye and Caine.

I'll have a go at writing some lists before venturing forth.

Thanks for the advice peeps.

Cygnar have a huge amount of models that can greatly improve the rest of the army [ATGM officers for example]

Oh and Boomhowler is overrated IMO, Murdoch+ Nyss hunters is better.

 sing your life wrote:
Cygnar have a huge amount of models that can greatly improve the rest of the army [ATGM officers for example]

Oh and Boomhowler is overrated IMO, Murdoch+ Nyss hunters is better.

A relatively cheap unit with 4+ tough that makes for an excellent screen and tarpit is overrated?

Okay then, moving along....

Puscifer wrote:
This is the thing that I'm seeing with Cygnar...

The synergies are a lot harder to spot compared to Trolls and CoC.

I find that Cygnar tends to have lots of good stuff, but often lacks a certain something to unify the choices. For Example, A sentinel would be amazing if strafe wasn't a special attack- because then it could get Rune Shot from the Gunmage Officer (Shield guard to protect the squishy Marshal, Snipe for Aiming, Thunderbolt breaks shield wall). Likewise, a Charger would be great, if the Journeyman Warcaster had Foc 4 (meaning it could upkeep Arcane Shield and fully fuel the Charger).

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
This is the thing that I'm seeing with Cygnar...

The synergies are a lot harder to spot compared to Trolls and CoC.

I find that Cygnar tends to have lots of good stuff, but often lacks a certain something to unify the choices. For Example, A sentinel would be amazing if strafe wasn't a special attack- because then it could get Rune Shot from the Gunmage Officer (Shield guard to protect the squishy Marshal, Snipe for Aiming, Thunderbolt breaks shield wall). Likewise, a Charger would be great, if the Journeyman Warcaster had Foc 4 (meaning it could upkeep Arcane Shield and fully fuel the Charger).

What if I told you both of those things are intentional?[/Morpheus]

 novaspike wrote:

That's not always normal of Cygnar overall, but if you're playing a gunline cracking armor (usually) can be tough.

Once you've made the mistake of leaving a heavy near Max + UA dual CRA'ing Longgunners, you're wary of letting it happen again. Gunline Cygnar deals just fine with Armor cracking in my experiences.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
Cygnar have a huge amount of models that can greatly improve the rest of the army [ATGM officers for example]

Oh and Boomhowler is overrated IMO, Murdoch+ Nyss hunters is better.

A relatively cheap unit with 4+ tough that makes for an excellent screen and tarpit is overrated?

Okay then, moving along....

That's cute, because With Murdoch Nyss can move with free rein due to Pathfinder to make surprise assault that will kill light infantry [and also some heavier targets from CRA], and AS can make them just a tough as Boomhowler.

Besides the models are better.

 sing your life wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
Cygnar have a huge amount of models that can greatly improve the rest of the army [ATGM officers for example]

Oh and Boomhowler is overrated IMO, Murdoch+ Nyss hunters is better.

A relatively cheap unit with 4+ tough that makes for an excellent screen and tarpit is overrated?

Okay then, moving along....

That's cute, because With Murdoch Nyss can move with free rein due to Pathfinder to make surprise assault that will kill light infantry [and also some heavier targets from CRA], and AS can make them just a tough as Boomhowler.

Besides the models are better.

But small bases don't screen my 'Jacks...

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
Cygnar have a huge amount of models that can greatly improve the rest of the army [ATGM officers for example]

Oh and Boomhowler is overrated IMO, Murdoch+ Nyss hunters is better.

A relatively cheap unit with 4+ tough that makes for an excellent screen and tarpit is overrated?

Okay then, moving along....

That's cute, because With Murdoch Nyss can move with free rein due to Pathfinder to make surprise assault that will kill light infantry [and also some heavier targets from CRA], and AS can make them just a tough as Boomhowler.

Besides the models are better.

But small bases don't screen my 'Jacks...

I do have to admit that admit that boomholwer is better if Murdoch isn't available.

As a Cygnar player I might offer a slightly different view on the play style since there is a lot of established consensus on what isn’t worth the points, what is commonly used and this that or the other. I think I am one of the very few who can make Trencher Commandos worth their points.

Most of you have it right that Cygnar does play weird as compared to the other Warmachine factions since they have a utilitarian style army that could be treated as one big tool box. There are a lot of tricks and consistency with casters but I think the real beauty of Cygnar is its flexibility. One thing many notice is the lack of heavy infantry with 8 damage boxes in its infantry choices and a crowded inventory of PoW 10 ranged weapons and 9 point warjacks. There are easy and cost effective ways around these minor setbacks. If anything Cygnar has the most powerful situtational army lists in Warmachine IMO.

Cygnar has a lack of raw damage output from range and some limitations that takes away from some really would-be nasty warjack and unit selections. Such as the Stormclad in MkI that make Stormknights fearless as an example. Then there are the few warjacks being very focus hungry like the Charger versus some considerably focus efficient like the Cyclone IMO. Cygnar seems it wants to be a defensive faction but really I think it can be played just as good defensively and offensively depending on the caster and overall army list with it. Cygnar has ranged attack buffing capabilities out the ying-yang while on the other hand there is a lack of models with pathfinder and fearless in the Cygnar inventory to make it really fearsome.

Some may scoff at this concept of playing Cygnar as a warjack oriented faction. Some see Cygnar warjacks as too expensive and this is true for a few warjacks although I’m sure if anyone can look at the overall capability of the warjack versus purely a stat on stat basis they do work for their points in a way. What helps me more than anything is I treat my warjacks as tanks to take out the other warjacks and my infantry supports them like any normal mechanized army would. I could go on but that’s the gist of my take on Cygnar’s play style as a highly versatile jack oriented, flexible utilitarian ranged combat army.

Cygnar can be jack oriented. They, arguably, have some of the best jack marshalls in the game along with some good casters. And for now the only Jr. Warcaster.

As for fearless, while it is handy in that it let's you ignore a few things, it rarely comes into play. They do tend to have good leadership and plenty of officers and such as well. But even without this stuff I rarely see units break and run away. They tend to be pretty much dead by that point.

With all that food for thought, I've come up with some conclusions that agree with many of your opinions as a group.

Cygnar are THE toolbox faction. There isn't a set cookie cutter list for them as such. They have certain solos that work very well with their casters and some unit/weapon attachments work incredibly well together.

Their casters tend to be based more towards supporting their forces, rather than being the beatsticks of Khador or Trolls that I am used to (Caine and Sloan excluded). In return though, units must support the caster by having synergy with the caster and be able to use the spells of them.

With that rationale...

I take it that pStryker can use virtually any Cygnar Jack or Unit as he is so versatile?

Is there a list of must haves?
(I'm asking this one as I'm leaning towards a full unit of Stormblades with all the addons plus Captain as I think they are quite beastly with pStryker and could be ok with Caine).

list of "must haves"
Again, take this with a grain of salt, each caster is different. But these are very popular with a lot of people (i.e. they get talked about a lot and I see a lot of sample lists with them)

Arcane Tempest Gun Mages ATGM w/ UA (Unit attachment is what really makes them good)
Black 13 gun mages
Tempast Blazers gun mages
Squire
Jr Warcaster
Stormwall
Defender

For infantry troops Mercenaries are generally considered "better" and seem more popular
Nyss Archers
Boomhowlers

Other units that tend to be very popular with certain casters/builds
Rangers
Stormclad
Ol' Rowdy
Reinholdt (merc) for the shooting casters (both Caines, Siege, Sloan)
Forgegaurd
Sylys Wyshnalyrr

I like to have some stormsmiths around in case you need a 1 point solo.

Units like Stormblades are good, but need support so are not often an auto-include. You can't just grab them as your frontline troops. But they do have some good synergy with some other units/casters.

And since most people ask eventually, the top Cygnar casters are generally considered to be (in no particular order after Haley) eHaley, eCaine, eStryker and Siege. pHaley and Kraye are probably tier 1.5.

Again, I am giving you the general net opinion. Though for most of the stuff I tend to agree, though as it is popular for a reason. I am also probably missing a couple things and I am sure that others will bring them up.

I have a slightly different take to “must haves” versus what is generally popular in the meta or as the mainstream likes to project. Cygnar has probably the most flexible and dynamic caster builds in all warmachine and second to none for support capabilities.

My “must have” all-rounder models for almost any caster/builds.

Arcane Tempest Gun Mages – This one is a very obvious choice with magic attack, snipe, CRA, critical boost damage do you need more? These are handy even with melee-oriented caster builds such as Styker and Darius.

Rangers – these are my go-to unit to support my ranged assets and more than earn their points worth by being a handy anti-support model assassin unit such as picking off choirs, beast handlers and any squirmy and fragile support model/unit. I use them to harry my opponent’s strong points such as Iron Fangs in shield wall and the like. Only casters they don’t do too well are with Darius and any of the Nemos in my experiences.

Trenchers – I know some more established warmachiners groan about Trenchers being expensive. I rarely take a full unit as a minimum unit does the job with CRA and the ever useful assault order. I can give any level of player and caster a bad day with a unit of these steampunk-esque marines. Not recommended with Darius or Nemos.

Long Gunner – These guys are like trenchers, I do not need a full unit of them to make them dangerous although I use their full unite more often than trenchers in larger games. LGs are awesome in a tandem with trenchers and rangers with a solid gun line. Caster limitations are similar to Trenchers only I get away with them with Nemos thanks to their range.

Journeyman Warcaster + Charger = the dynamic duo – These combination is my best all around choice for any caster and build. Junior supplies the hungry charger with the three focus to become dangerous to hit squirmy models and boosted damage to get likely kill shots. This is my dedicated kill team when the rangers are preoccupied elsewhere.

Centurion – My most favorite jack in the Cygnarian warjack inventory. Immune to charges in its front arc, hits like a ton and can take one hell of a pounding like a Khadorian heavy. Only down side is they’re slow and easy to hit. He does not play well with Caines or with Sloan for obvious reasons. The only better option than Centurion is the Stormclad when the points are there.
Stormclad – See Centurion

Defender – Arguably one of the best non-character warjacks in the game the defender is a must have for its highly versatile platform with any caster. There is at least one defender in all my build lists and even does well with Darius for a ranged warjack.

Hunter – THE best light warjack in the game to being a versatile platform akin to the Defender only smaller and more nimble than its bigger brother. The Hunter is Caine’s best friend and always take a pair of them with any ranged oriented caster and excellent with Kraye. I like these warjacks for their ability to crack through thick armor reliably and focus efficient. They’re Cygnar’s tank destroyers and steampunk style M10 Hellcats.

Minuteman – Ah yes my favorite flee jumper harasser jack is good with any caster. These are insanely effective with Kraye and eHaley. I have at least one in melee-oriented Cygnar caster builds.

Really? You take a Junior and don't make use of AS? Interesting choice. I find Junior and a Centurion often find their way into my eCaine lists, since I like having an ARM24-can't-be-charged warjack toeing into one zone while Caine fires up the minigun and goes to town in the other.

Also, since I've been playing Tanks way too much, its M10 Wolverine or M18 Hellcat. Choose one

What are you guy's thoughts on controlling a stormwall with a journeywoman?

 sing your life wrote:
What are you guy's thoughts on controlling a stormwall with a journeywoman?

Too nervous about leaving it inert if someone lands a lucky shot on such a soft target.

 sing your life wrote:
What are you guy's thoughts on controlling a stormwall with a journeywoman?

Are you going to shoot the massive machine of uttermost death or the squishy 5 Damage ARM14 person that is controlling it. Because the journey caster is not a jack marshall, when he dies the stormwall goes inert rather than autonomous.

For those saying that Cygnar isn't a great 'jack faction, what do you think of Seige's tier list in NQ50?

I'm mentally toying with something like this:

pSeige (+5) p.40

-Triumph (-10) ???
-Defender (-8) p.78
-Sentinal (-3) p.73

ATGMs x6 (-6) p.88
Field Mechs (-2) p.109
Field Mechs (-2) p.109

Journeyman Warcaster (-3) p.113
-Sentinal (-3) p.73
-Charger (-3) p.68

Journeyman Warcaster (-3) p.113
-Sentinal (-3) p.73
-Charger (-3) p.68

B13 (-4) p.110

Arlan Strangeways (-2) p.122

no anti stealth other then the b13 , no tar pit , no ability to choke stuff up. no rangers so hiting maybe a problem , if def is high . No options to melee. no magic weapons from A&H , so menoth walks up to this list without being shot at .


Wait , can he take the b13 at all, doesn't the tier say he can take only gunmages ?

Makumba wrote:

Wait , can he take the b13 at all, doesn't the tier say he can take only gunmages ?

It only says "Gun Mage units". No mention of non-character anywhere. The general consensus appears to be is that you can take them.

but they are an "arcane templest character unit" not a "gunmage character unit".

Makumba wrote:
but they are an "arcane templest character unit" not a "gunmage character unit".

Heh, I've got no stake in this. Just got the above from checking my copy of NQ 50 and a quick search on PP's forums. FWIW most people think you *should* be able to take the Tempest Blazers in it, as they are included in the accompanying fiction piece; which is something PP is wont to do.

Official title is "Black 13th Gun mage Strike Team"
For unit type they are listed as a "Cygnar Arcane Tempest Character Unit"

regular gun mages are listed as "Arcane Tempest Gun Mages" and unit type is "Cygnar Unit".

Blazers are "Tempest Blazers" and listed as a "Cygnar Arcane Tempest light cavalry unit"

So if he is allowed to take gun mages or arcane tempest units then the B13 fit. If it says "arcane tempest gun mages" then that might only be the standard ATGM.

I'm not sure what the NQ says as I do not have it.

motyak wrote:Really? You take a Junior and don't make use of AS? Interesting choice. I find Junior and a Centurion often find their way into my eCaine lists, since I like having an ARM24-can't-be-charged warjack toeing into one zone while Caine fires up the minigun and goes to town in the other.

Also, since I've been playing Tanks way too much, its M10 Wolverine or M18 Hellcat. Choose one

For the life of me I always get those two confused. I don't play World of Tanks but I think its the M18 Hellcat in this instance. As an insult to injury I play an American mechanized company on Flames of War. Go figure.

As for making use of the Arcane Shield I have use it sparingly especially when the Charger's ranged capability has been dminished mainly from a crippled arm or if the Charger is toast and its just the Journeyman I put him to good use since he can't hit the broadside of a barn inside the friggin' barn.

sing your life wrote:What are you guy's thoughts on controlling a stormwall with a journeywoman?

An expensive accident waiting to happen.

 motyak wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
What are you guy's thoughts on controlling a stormwall with a journeywoman?

Too nervous about leaving it inert if someone lands a lucky shot on such a soft target.

How is arm and def 14 and 5 boxes "such a soft target"?

 sing your life wrote:

 motyak wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
What are you guy's thoughts on controlling a stormwall with a journeywoman?

Too nervous about leaving it inert if someone lands a lucky shot on such a soft target.

How is arm and def 14 and 5 boxes "such a soft target"?

Because things like a Defender kill it in one (boosted to hit) shot? Pretty much every "heavy hitter" ranged jack can kill it in one shot, boosting to hit. Not even boosting damage. Vanquisher, Defender, Corrupter, etc. Anything with a POW 14 or so ranged attack is odds on to kill him (with a RAT of 5 or better) with only 1 focus, and then they are trading an 8-9 pt warjack for a 22 pt pair of models. Definitely worth it.

Not to mention CRA shots and high volume of fire from downtown like rifle corps, nyss hunters, and mage hunters.

 sing your life wrote:

 motyak wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
What are you guy's thoughts on controlling a stormwall with a journeywoman?

Too nervous about leaving it inert if someone lands a lucky shot on such a soft target.

How is arm and def 14 and 5 boxes "such a soft target"?

Softer than you like to think even with its overshield ability to give it 17 ARM still a squishy target if you leave it exposed. Then again any model can be a soft target if left exposed but then that's an entirely different debate in of its own. Forget I said anything.

But you would certainly want to hide Jakes [who would be much better at controlling a stormwall than the normal JR] behind the colossal so they're unlikely to be hit with any serious shooting.

 sing your life wrote:
But you would certainly want to hide Jakes [who would be much better at controlling a stormwall than the normal JR] behind the colossal so they're unlikely to be hit with any serious shooting.

But then you're not using them to their full potential as all you're doing is hiding them. All it takes is one lucky scatter from an AOE and/or your opponent to have Taryn di la Rovissi for example and they're a gonner.

 sing your life wrote:
But you would certainly want to hide Jakes [who would be much better at controlling a stormwall than the normal JR] behind the colossal so they're unlikely to be hit with any serious shooting.

There are plenty of ways to get around the colossal and kill Jakes/Jr. Jakes would probably be a bit tougher as I believe her stats are slightly better. There are way too many things with phantom shot, foxhole, e-leaps, AOEs, etc that can bypass a 19 point model to get the 3-4 point one behind it. And as you'd be shutting down 22-23 points of models it would be worth it to sacrifice 5-10 points of your own stuff.

But eventually all arguments lead to the conclusion of why not let the caster run the stormwall? They can usually do it the most efficiently. In fact the stormwall is a very efficient use of focus compared to other jacks. Jr. is still a good idea. AS is a great spell and JR can be of use simply as a solo.

Sorry...

Jakes?

New Journeywoman from the kickstarter. Everyone is getting one, and ours is (somethingerother) Jakes

Oh right, so it's a model that is being released then?

Awesome.

Puscifer wrote:
Oh right, so it's a model that is being released then?

Awesome.

Yeah she's got two stabby sticks, sprint, and a few other odds and ends. And FOC 4. She'll have 2 models though, one will be the Kickstarter exclusive one, then after that there'll be the regular release one.

We also get a new caster And so do Cryx. No one else.

Just made my first Cygnar list:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/570529.page#6383283

Please tell me if I'm going about this the wrong way.

Mordekiem wrote:

But eventually all arguments lead to the conclusion of why not let the caster run the stormwall? They can usually do it the most efficiently. In fact the stormwall is a very efficient use of focus compared to other jacks. Jr. is still a good idea. AS is a great spell and JR can be of use simply as a solo.

I'm looking to do a assassination list that uses sloan and 2 stormwalls [with jakes controlling the other colossal]

Grimtuff wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
But you would certainly want to hide Jakes [who would be much better at controlling a stormwall than the normal JR] behind the colossal so they're unlikely to be hit with any serious shooting.

But then you're not using them to their full potential as all you're doing is hiding them. All it takes is one lucky scatter from an AOE and/or your opponent to have Taryn di la Rovissi for example and they're a gonner.

Good point, but 4 focus points mean that I could really hide Jakes in a unit of sword knights "8" away from the stromwall. Besides Taryn is easy to kill.

 sing your life wrote:

Mordekiem wrote:

But eventually all arguments lead to the conclusion of why not let the caster run the stormwall? They can usually do it the most efficiently. In fact the stormwall is a very efficient use of focus compared to other jacks. Jr. is still a good idea. AS is a great spell and JR can be of use simply as a solo.

I'm looking to do a assassination list that uses sloan and 2 stormwalls [with jakes controlling the other colossal]

I admit I don't know much about Sloan, but isn't her feat and one of (or more than one?) her best spells battlegroup only?

And there are many other ways of ignoring models than just Taryn. MHSF will make Jakes cry. Siege can foxhole the colossal. Incorporeal can go right thru it. ghostwalk or parry will allow them to run right past it as well. Among many other things.

All in all, it sounds dangerous. And with 43 points tied up in 2 stormwalls, Jakes and reinholdt you won't have many other points for swordknights or anything else.

I heard the Stormwall is good with Sloan (good with just about anyone, hehe) but two of them set up like you are saying seems like a lot of eggs in one basket and a severe skew list. But if you try it out let us know how it goes. I am always interested in new tactics and ideas. I just have a few concerns.

Part of Sloan's feat affects her whole army. It is basically an army-wide deadeye plus a few extra battlegroup shots.

 Dais wrote:
Part of Sloan's feat affects her whole army. It is basically an army-wide deadeye plus a few extra battlegroup shots.

And an awesome assassination Feat if you can get your troops lined up. Like most of Cygnar's power moves it is highly situational but if you do pull it off it is devastating and gratifying.

Well, after picking up a great deal of stuff from my FLGS, I can safely say, after testing, I do not like pStryker all that much.

He's too middle of the board. Like Ryu and Ken, he's average at everything, but has no significant weaknesses.

I've tried eHaley and I'm really liking her as a caster. Really easy to build a list around her and she is actually really powerful. I still forget to use her feat though, but nonetheless, a lot of fun.

In a Steamroller list, who would make a good caster for the second list and how do you go about taking named units?

I've found Arlan to be good and the Black 13th too, so how do I replace them in the other list?

I have in list one:

eHaley.
-Squire.
-Stormclad.
-Thorn.

JWC.
Arlan Strangewayes.

Black 13th.
Stormblade Infantry.
-UA.
-3 WA.

The other models I have are:

Kraye.
pStryker.
Sylys.
Ol' Rowdy.
Charger.
Lancer.
Ironclad.
Stormblade Captain.

It's really tough to build two 35 point lists with the pool of units I have.

Any pointers?

B13 can usually be replaced by atgm with ua or perhaps the blazers. Arlan is cool but plenty of lists can do without him.

I treat B13 as an elite kill team as they should be and for 4 points they certianly pay for themselves.

ATGM + UA marhsalling a warjack is a solid strike team depending on the situation. Usually the UA is marshalling a Defender, Avenger or a Cyclone heavy warjack. These are by far the most focus effecient to make the most of the marshalling ability IMO.

The Tempest Blazers...they are a Morrowsend. They are becoming my goto harasser unit with casters such as Kraye. They're a real treat when I have the points. They're fast, squirmy and hit like a ton of bricks.

Which jack are you planning to bond with eHaley?

If you are running the Blades and as you don't own Rhupert then I would stick the Stormblade Captain in instead of Arlan, normally he would be better if you are running multiple Stormnoun units but the Blades need access to Pathfinder and with Deceleration up and Arcane Shield on them they will be able to get across the board.

As for your other list,

Well for the other casters you have I think you are missing some pieces to be able to make a 35pt list
Considering picking up Gun Mages, their UA, Rhupert and both versions of Eiryss which should allow to make the following 35pt list

pStryker +6
Ol' Rowdy 9
Lancer 6
Squire 2
Stormblades & UA 8
Gun Mages & UA 8
Rhupert 2
JWC 3
Eiryss 3

Ahhhhh, I have Eiryss all painted up for my RoS force which will soon be up for sale.

I'm looking at a Stormwall ATM as I don't think I want to field ATGM. Stormwall does everything the Stormclad and the ATGM do.

Was thinking of going with pNemo as I have tons of Jacks.

Is he viable?

Puscifer wrote:
Ahhhhh, I have Eiryss all painted up for my RoS force which will soon be up for sale.

What version is eyriss?

Prime.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So I take it that pStryker is actually better when adding Rhupert.

Puscifer wrote:
Ahhhhh, I have Eiryss all painted up for my RoS force which will soon be up for sale.

I'm looking at a Stormwall ATM as I don't think I want to field ATGM. Stormwall does everything the Stormclad and the ATGM do.

Was thinking of going with pNemo as I have tons of Jacks.

Is he viable?

Stormwall and gun mages are very different and do different things. I don't really see them fighting for the same types of duties.

ATGM w/ UA can deal with stealth, are more accurate, better range and harder to hit, can push and cause knockdown. They also are more independent so can range father from the warcaster. Also much cheaper in points. Generally the things gun mages deal well with you wouldn't want to dedicate a19 point Stormwall to. Wage of points.

About all they have in common is they both have guns.

The Stormwall and ATGM do two completely different things. ATGM with UA and caster that has access to Deadeye clears High Def infantry and with the UA it allows them to deal with Stealth.

No Cygnar infantry is better when adding Rupert as he can give out Pathfinder, Tough, Def Buff and Fearless.

PNemo only wants 3 jacks at most with one being a Lancer or Thorn. eNemo out of the three will run multiples better because of his Feat

Well, I picked up the Stormwall and Rhupert.

Looking forward to testing out that monster.

It gives me a couple more options in regards of what to take in Steamroller.

Are there 50pt Steamroller or just 35?

I still think it is a bad idea to marshall something big and expensive like a Stormwall to a UA.

But that's just me being overly cautious. Another reason I like Cygnar is you can afford being cautious with them.

Heavy Metal wrote:
I still think it is a bad idea to marshall something big and expensive like a Stormwall to a UA.

But that's just me being overly cautious. Another reason I like Cygnar is you can afford being cautious with them.

What are you talking about? You can't Marshal a Colossal...

I believe he meant "assign the stormwall to a journeyman caster", which I also disagree with. Soon enough all factions will have the option to take a colossal on a journeyman though, so it should be interesting to see how that develops.

 Dais wrote:
I believe he meant "assign the stormwall to a journeyman caster", which I also disagree with. Soon enough all factions will have the option to take a colossal on a journeyman though, so it should be interesting to see how that develops.

I was about to say...

Still Journeymen warcasters are too squishy to have something like colossal at the helm.

Heavy Metal wrote:

Still Journeymen warcasters are too squishy to have something like colossal at the helm.

Definatly to squishy to stick with Jr./Jakes on a normal game, but you can always grab Gastone Crosse and bring a Galleon along with the Stormwall your caster brought.

Heavy Metal wrote:

 Dais wrote:
I believe he meant "assign the stormwall to a journeyman caster", which I also disagree with. Soon enough all factions will have the option to take a colossal on a journeyman though, so it should be interesting to see how that develops.

I was about to say...

Still Journeymen warcasters are too squishy to have something like colossal at the helm.

Not necessarily. I have a pHaley list that uses a Stormwall piloted by a Journeyman in it.

In the right formation the Journeyman is protected by the bulk of the Stormwall, by pHaley's spear and by a Sentinel and if my opponent manages to get past all of that and still kill the Journeyman, all I have to do is get pHaley into btb with the Stormwall to reactivate it.

In same faction lists there isn't much of a problem assigning Colossals to Jr Warcasters because if they die then the main warcaster can easily restart the Colossal without any problem. The real trouble comes if you choose to assign a Galleon to Gastogne in a non-Merc army because if Gastogne gets killed then the Galleon is lost as well (unless you take a Merc Jack Marshall in the same list).

Reactivating a warjack does not put it into your battlegroup. You would have to spend an additional turn in b2b forfeiting your action to add it to your battlegroup. That's 2 turns of limited options for your caster and colossal means you're losing the game badly and that's if you're still alive.

Reactivating a Warjack does put it into your Battlegroup if the person who is reactivating the Jack has the Battle Commander Rule. You forfeit your action to activate it. So move into B2B and sacrifice your action to re-actvate. Warcasters can still use spells and their Feat while doing this.

 Surtur wrote:
Reactivating a warjack does not put it into your battlegroup. You would have to spend an additional turn in b2b forfeiting your action to add it to your battlegroup. That's 2 turns of limited options for your caster and colossal means you're losing the game badly and that's if you're still alive.

I think you must be misremembering or misunderstanding something because this:

gobbo76 wrote:
Reactivating a Warjack does put it into your Battlegroup if the person who is reactivating the Jack has the Battle Commander Rule. You forfeit your action to activate it. So move into B2B and sacrifice your action to re-actvate. Warcasters can still use spells and their Feat while doing this.

Is the way that reactivating a warjack works.

Has anyone tried N3mo and Finch yet?

My local gaming group consider him as one of the top casters in all Jack 35pt and Electric based at 50pts.

Puscifer wrote:
Has anyone tried N3mo and Finch yet?

My local gaming group consider him as one of the top casters in all Jack 35pt and Electric based at 50pts.

He seems a bit overpriced due to be much better than nemo2 at 2X the cost [though I haven't tried him in a game yet]

PhantomViper wrote:

 Surtur wrote:
Reactivating a warjack does not put it into your battlegroup. You would have to spend an additional turn in b2b forfeiting your action to add it to your battlegroup. That's 2 turns of limited options for your caster and colossal means you're losing the game badly and that's if you're still alive.

I think you must be misremembering or misunderstanding something because this:

gobbo76 wrote:
Reactivating a Warjack does put it into your Battlegroup if the person who is reactivating the Jack has the Battle Commander Rule. You forfeit your action to activate it. So move into B2B and sacrifice your action to re-actvate. Warcasters can still use spells and their Feat while doing this.

Is the way that reactivating a warjack works.

Um no it doesn't. pg 68 does not state that reactivating adds it to your battlegroup, it is simply no longer inert. pg 80 states that a warcaster or jack marshal may take control of an autonomous warjack by forfeiting their action.

Nemo3 only wants 2 or 3 Jacks even with Finch. Nemo2 is a better jack caster out of the 3 versions IMO.

gobbo76 wrote:
Nemo3 only wants 2 or 3 Jacks even with Finch. Nemo2 is a better jack caster out of the 3 versions IMO.

At 35 pts, you take 2-3 on him and then take a couple with JWC/Arlan/Stormblades.

I think it could work.

 Surtur wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 Surtur wrote:
Reactivating a warjack does not put it into your battlegroup. You would have to spend an additional turn in b2b forfeiting your action to add it to your battlegroup. That's 2 turns of limited options for your caster and colossal means you're losing the game badly and that's if you're still alive.

I think you must be misremembering or misunderstanding something because this:

gobbo76 wrote:
Reactivating a Warjack does put it into your Battlegroup if the person who is reactivating the Jack has the Battle Commander Rule. You forfeit your action to activate it. So move into B2B and sacrifice your action to re-actvate. Warcasters can still use spells and their Feat while doing this.

Is the way that reactivating a warjack works.

Um no it doesn't. pg 68 does not state that reactivating adds it to your battlegroup, it is simply no longer inert. pg 80 states that a warcaster or jack marshal may take control of an autonomous warjack by forfeiting their action.

You need to check the errata as well:

Originally Posted by January 2013 Errata, p. 2
p. 68. Reactivating Warjacks.
Add the following text:

If the model reactivating a warjack has the Battlegroup Commander rule, the warjack becomes a part of its battlegroup.

PhantomViper wrote:

 Surtur wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 Surtur wrote:
Reactivating a warjack does not put it into your battlegroup. You would have to spend an additional turn in b2b forfeiting your action to add it to your battlegroup. That's 2 turns of limited options for your caster and colossal means you're losing the game badly and that's if you're still alive.

I think you must be misremembering or misunderstanding something because this:

gobbo76 wrote:
Reactivating a Warjack does put it into your Battlegroup if the person who is reactivating the Jack has the Battle Commander Rule. You forfeit your action to activate it. So move into B2B and sacrifice your action to re-actvate. Warcasters can still use spells and their Feat while doing this.

Is the way that reactivating a warjack works.

Um no it doesn't. pg 68 does not state that reactivating adds it to your battlegroup, it is simply no longer inert. pg 80 states that a warcaster or jack marshal may take control of an autonomous warjack by forfeiting their action.

You need to check the errata as well:

Originally Posted by January 2013 Errata, p. 2
p. 68. Reactivating Warjacks.
Add the following text:

If the model reactivating a warjack has the Battlegroup Commander rule, the warjack becomes a part of its battlegroup.

No fair! You cheated by using the errata!