It's not been used before, but it seems to be based on the hook swords that Shaolin Monks used.
Loosely based probably. It's a bit hard to tell from those pics, but tiger (head/paw) hooks, as they are mostly called, have a very specific hand guard, that doubles as a friendly limb remover and a dagger.
Btw they were used not just by shaolin monks, but having been kind of a rare sight were considered exotic weapons anyway.
Also it's even rarer to see someone wield just one of them, they are one of those weapons you want to dual wield, because they only then live up to their full potential. Interlocking the hooks and other fun stuff.
He's a Yu Jing player maybe? Guijia looks pretty good.
So Seraph and Guijia in the same month. Gentlemen, ladies, we've officially been been TAG-teamed.
That Guijia is a fairly radical redesign too. It fits in much better with the current Yu-Jing esthetic. nonetheless, it is only the 2nd best TAG from Svalarheim.
Overall a nice month. Now CB, the tikbalang, os lo rogamos.
new Guija is rockin', but i still have a soft spot for the very Anime chubby original...
the first pic on Angel's Facebook post is hilarious, placing his signature model airbrush in the photo...
you go, Angel!!!
i can't get enough of TAGs...
gotta collect 'em all!!!
lovely stuff, as per usual...
retail Van Zant is even cooler than the LE to me, which is a nice change from the norm...
The left hand is already open, so it's easy to bend the fingers around the gun grip. The right hand is already in a grip, so you can cut off the sword, do a little resculpting on the fingers, and put the gun there.
Then it's a matter of repositioning the arms, which will require a lot of cutting, pinning and sculpting the muscle fibre joins. The the mini-me arms, they're Zu Yong arms. So gran a Zu Yong in a similar pose and just put the arms there.
The legs will require a lot of work to get them into a firing stance, however.
Me? Nah, I intentionally steered away from Yujing.
By occupational hazard I know too much about chinese culture, history and martial arts to enjoy the necessarily slightly naive emulation of it in a game.
Even a genius like Gutier can't hide his laymanship from a professional (or descendant of said culture). Which brings to mind all the recent missrepresentation debates about american culture in USAriadna.
So I figured if I can't relax enough to not be bothered by the occasional inaccuracy and turn off the smartass in the back of my head long enough to genuinely enjoy the fluff, I better not get into it. Otherwise one might end up just getting on other people's nerves, while everybody should be just trying to have fun. (I have yet to hear anybody correctly pronounce Yujing, but most people also really don't care for being told so, so one should stop trying to do so at some point )
Etc. just one of those things where you just let people say it wrong and get on with playing the game.
Where are your 'correct' pronunciations coming from?
I'm fairly sure the Ghulam is off. Arabic غ is transliterated as a GH but the 'g' is soft its not a Guh sound but from deeper in the throat and the H finishes off the sound. It is trilled slightly. The 'u' is a short vowel not a long vowel so its not 'oo' but just 'o'. LAM has the hardest emphasis. GHoLAM
If you know French then GH is similar to the French R.
There was a lengthy pronunciation thread. I did get Ghulam wrong, read somewhere else about the Kum pronunciation, but that thread makes it sound slightly different. Still, some odd ones in there.
These New Releases Make it really Hard to decide on Yu Jing or USariadna.
Have to wait for the Desporados. That will make it or Break it for me.
Hells Angels Biker Force, Or Akira Biker Force HA.
OT. The New Yu-jing Tag looks good.
-Loki- wrote: There was a lengthy pronunciation thread. I did get Ghulam wrong, read somewhere else about the Kum pronunciation, but that thread makes it sound slightly different. Still, some odd ones in there.
I think the naming of the units is one of the (few) areas in which CB has fallen down. Having names, even if there is a good historical and/or in-game reason, difficult to pronounce is just one more barrier to entry for players. The rules can be hard enough for someone new (or coming from a less complex system, no names...) and often (in my experience) sends them to look elsewhere; the use of sounds completely alien to some languages just makes getting into the game that little bit more difficult. I've had conversations where people have openly admitted liking the models and being interested in play but, because they couldn't read the names of some of the units on the boxes, were put off doing so.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I think that I prefer to have native names than have everything in "English", because...
I definitely prefer it. The idea that foreign names of units could put people off a game seems a little bit... closed minded? to me. I didn't find it much harder to pick up what was what than in games with all English names. I mean I get the issue to an extent, but not enough to completely turn someone away.
As to whether or not I actually get them right, that's a whole other kettle of fish
-Loki- wrote: There was a lengthy pronunciation thread. I did get Ghulam wrong, read somewhere else about the Kum pronunciation, but that thread makes it sound slightly different. Still, some odd ones in there.
I think the naming of the units is one of the (few) areas in which CB has fallen down. Having names, even if there is a good historical and/or in-game reason, difficult to pronounce is just one more barrier to entry for players. The rules can be hard enough for someone new (or coming from a less complex system, no names...) and often (in my experience) sends them to look elsewhere; the use of sounds completely alien to some languages just makes getting into the game that little bit more difficult. I've had conversations where people have openly admitted liking the models and being interested in play but, because they couldn't read the names of some of the units on the boxes, were put off doing so.
I think there is something to that: while I haven't had that much of a problem with Infinity, I personally have experienced that exact thing with Meirce Miniatures' lines. Especially their use of Gaelic (I think that's what it is). To be clear, it's not a matter of embarrassment or being put off, per se, rather it's... I suppose the best comparison is being introduced to a number of very nice people with very foreign names. It simply takes a much longer time to make the mental connection between the names and the people, and with miniatures (or any other consumer product) you simply don't get exposed to them enough for the mental pathways for these new sounds to form.
This makes me wonder about how this is dealt with in marketing in general; in our global economy, this certainly isn't the first time this has come up. Though it also reminds me of a point John Derbyshire once made, that in previous generations travels that stayed for long periods of time in very foreign countries would take new, local names. So English in Hong Kong, for example, would stick to English names, while those traveling to Thailand (say) would adopt a Thai name for local use. This was also a phenomenon of the lower and lower middle classes, a throwback in a way to the ancient idea of traveling names, public names and private names. But this is a bit of a tangent...
Infinity's just taking off in my local store, and I'm certainly encountering lots of people who are embarassed to even attempt to pronounce their units names. I think that including an O-12 standard nomenclature that lists all the units name in english as well as giving us the infaction name would be a great boon to people starting out.
Yea, not being able to talk about units/models in the same language due to really hard pronunciation is a bit of a problem. Particularly for native English speakers, as we really don't have as much exposure to other languages for various reasons. As Buzzsaw said, Mierce names can really be a problem in this regard. I have trouble keeping unit straight in my head, as moving from the written characters to the sounds I hear in my head takes some time, and hell, I have a much better than average grasp of Gaelic pronunciation. I think a lot of people just don't even bother, and just make up descriptive names for most of the things.
I think a basic phonetic spelling in parenthesis after the names would go a long way towards smoothing the rough edges.
Me? Nah, I intentionally steered away from Yujing.
By occupational hazard I know too much about chinese culture, history and martial arts to enjoy the necessarily slightly naive emulation of it in a game.
Even a genius like Gutier can't hide his laymanship from a professional (or descendant of said culture). Which brings to mind all the recent missrepresentation debates about american culture in USAriadna.
So I figured if I can't relax enough to not be bothered by the occasional inaccuracy and turn off the smartass in the back of my head long enough to genuinely enjoy the fluff, I better not get into it. Otherwise one might end up just getting on other people's nerves, while everybody should be just trying to have fun. (I have yet to hear anybody correctly pronounce Yujing, but most people also really don't care for being told so, so one should stop trying to do so at some point )
And pronunciations.? Sound it out. Don't worry if how you say it is how a native speaker would say it. Do any of you native English speakers think you "correctly" pronounce all the various words of Latin or French or Spanish, or pretty much every other language on this planet -- Succotash for example. An Algonquian word -- that we have imported into English? Anglicize the Infinity names just as we have anglicized the imported words. Or [your language here]-cize the names. Do you think Spaniards pronounce Djanbazan the same as English speakers? Or even the same as Mexicans? Nope, they don't. Heck, native English speakers have different pronunciations for many words. try this: Neither tomato nor vase nor vitamin has a universal pronunciation. The only incorrect pronunciation is one nobody understands.
Now, news? What are next months releases rumored to be?
Oh come on, who cares? Relax! It's just a game! Nobody will/should blame another for misspronouncing a couple of names?
Ask greeks about the names in the steel phalanx they will laugh their asses of.
It's just impossible to get everything right. You would need to learn the phonetics of dozens of languages for that.
Even though I actually try to ask native speakers of my armies' languages as much as possible. Still haven't found anyone for CA...
Also how would you give everything english names?
So the Asw(u)ang is "indonesian zombie-vampire" now?
People being embarrased to talk about troops is being overly conscious imo.
In the german meta I've experienced the opposite by the way, people not caring even if you're extremely diplomaticly telling them what the actual pronounciation would be just in case they want to know and people trying to smartass the correct pronounciation, by telling me their (uninformed) view on it.
You are right. The way the names are spelled are precisely how you are supposed to pronounce them. If they were meant to be spoken in the native language they would be written in the native language. They are spelled in english so you can pronounce them in english.
Now, news? What are next months releases rumored to be?
According to Mayacast;
Domaru box
Avicenna
Rodoks box
Airborne Ranger
Hassasin Ragik Hacker
Thanks. The Avicenna render looked pretty good, and the Ragik Hacker is incredibly effective. So that's 2 for me... Maybe. I can always continue to proxy my Ragik rilfe as the hacker.
PsychoticStorm wrote:I think that I prefer to have native names than have everything in "English", because...
Baiyuan wrote: Also how would you give everything english names? So the Asw(u)ang is "indonesian zombie-vampire" now?
Yeah, this attitude is why I was hesitant to bring the point up. I realise it's probably inevitable given the language of the forums, but nothing in what I wrote pertained to English and it's pretty... racist isn't the right word and bigoted just feels wrong... The assumption that it's english speakers that have a problem and would want to change words to accommodate their phonetics is, well, bigoted. Nowhere did I, or anyone I've seen, say or write they wanted words in "English" and it's a strawman you've set up in an effort to belittle the point.
Buzzsaw wrote: I think there is something to that: while I haven't had that much of a problem with Infinity, I personally have experienced that exact thing with Meirce Miniatures' lines. Especially their use of Gaelic (I think that's what it is). To be clear, it's not a matter of embarrassment or being put off, per se, rather it's... I suppose the best comparison is being introduced to a number of very nice people with very foreign names. It simply takes a much longer time to make the mental connection between the names and the people, and with miniatures (or any other consumer product) you simply don't get exposed to them enough for the mental pathways for these new sounds to form.
This makes me wonder about how this is dealt with in marketing in general; in our global economy, this certainly isn't the first time this has come up. Though it also reminds me of a point John Derbyshire once made, that in previous generations travels that stayed for long periods of time in very foreign countries would take new, local names. So English in Hong Kong, for example, would stick to English names, while those traveling to Thailand (say) would adopt a Thai name for local use. This was also a phenomenon of the lower and lower middle classes, a throwback in a way to the ancient idea of traveling names, public names and private names. But this is a bit of a tangent...
This describes exactly how I felt trying to make sense of the units available (plus the symbols... god so many symbols...).
It's a marketing and localisation issue, and it's not surprising given how young a company CB is that this issue comes up. Sure, you want to throttle most people in marketing when they ask inane questions like "will the customer understand?" (scream "YES, so long as they're not as dumb as you appear to be!" and you have to have a long talk with Pam from HR...) but huge amount of work goes into just getting the most "inviting" shades possible for the colours of products, let alone the names; choosing words that have literally alien sounds in some (actually most, but that's a whole other issue) languages would be shot down by every marketing department in the world.
I won't pretend to appreciate how the issue might be addressed (would you really play Nisses if they were localised as Gnomes?) or how much work would be required, I just wish it wasn't an issue at all.
The Infinite wrote:
Yeah, this attitude is why I was hesitant to bring the point up. I realise it's probably inevitable given the language of the forums, but nothing in what I wrote pertained to English and it's pretty... racist isn't the right word and bigoted just feels wrong...
The assumption that it's english speakers that have a problem and would want to change words to accommodate their phonetics is, well, bigoted. Nowhere did I, or anyone I've seen, say or write they wanted words in "English" and it's a strawman you've set up in an effort to belittle the point.
So what you want from the following?
The Infinite wrote:
I think the naming of the units is one of the (few) areas in which CB has fallen down. Having names, even if there is a good historical and/or in-game reason, difficult to pronounce is just one more barrier to entry for players. The rules can be hard enough for someone new (or coming from a less complex system, no names...) and often (in my experience) sends them to look elsewhere; the use of sounds completely alien to some languages just makes getting into the game that little bit more difficult. I've had conversations where people have openly admitted liking the models and being interested in play but, because they couldn't read the names of some of the units on the boxes, were put off doing so.
Not alien to pronounce names, what would these be and coming from what language?
And frankly I do not care how people pronounce the units names, even if they are completely wrong, I still prefer the multiculturalism that exists.
AduroT wrote: Never had a single haircut in her life.
Considering that she's got an artificial body, probably.
Still, impressed at her running 6-4 in heels... but that braid is going to be a paaain to keep attached.
AduroT wrote: Never had a single haircut in her life.
Considering that she's got an artificial body, probably.
Still, impressed at her running 6-4 in heels... but that braid is going to be a paaain to keep attached.
More impressive when you realize it a male mind in a female body running in heels.
Bakunin you say? I do vaguely remember considering her at some point... Maybe I'll have to get her, the crazy hair fits right in with my misfit moderators.
AduroT wrote: Never had a single haircut in her life.
Considering that she's got an artificial body, probably.
Still, impressed at her running 6-4 in heels... but that braid is going to be a paaain to keep attached.
If the hair on the Muyib Spitfire or on Bipandra is anything to go by, Avicenna's braid will be flexible enough that you can shape it so that it contacts the mini at more than one point-- I'd aim for the left calf-- and does not overhang the base. I'd be more worried about those 'suspenders' than the hair.
I like how she wields her, erm, scalpel
I'd like to see her available in QK, but that might be a bit much. Bahram might make sense, given the background behind Avicenna.
We've seen the renders for the Domaru and the Airborne Ranger -- livin' that life of danger, but not the Rodoks ( that I can recall) or the Ragik Hacker. has anyone?
The thing with Avicenna however is she has ties to several factions due to who has given her training and/or shelter.
Also, I don't think they expected ITS to become as popular as it is. When they introduced Mercenaries ITS was pretty small, and Mercenaries were legal to any vanilla lists outside of ITS. Now ITS is the standard of play for the game in most places, and is even the official army builders only method of list construction, so Mercs sales are probably falling. Making them more widely accessible for ITS would be a good idea commercially.
-Loki- wrote: The thing with Avicenna however is she has ties to several factions due to who has given her training and/or shelter.
Also, I don't think they expected ITS to become as popular as it is. When they introduced Mercenaries ITS was pretty small, and Mercenaries were legal to any vanilla lists outside of ITS. Now ITS is the standard of play for the game in most places, and is even the official army builders only method of list construction, so Mercs sales are probably falling. Making them more widely accessible for ITS would be a good idea commercially.
To an extent, ITS has become popular because of prize support.
I know that locally, they never play anything but ITS because of it.
What about her pose suggests the hair should be whipping out like that, considering the large weight at the end?
I like Infinity's models up until they try to do 'sexy' stuff. It always seems to just be the worst. Like they need to stop because they are GW bad at it.
BrotherGecko wrote: What about her pose suggests the hair should be whipping out like that, considering the large weight at the end?
I like Infinity's models up until they try to do 'sexy' stuff. It always seems to just be the worst. Like they need to stop because they are GW bad at it.
There's either a strong wind or a pressure wave coming ahead of her. Cool girls look at the explosions?
BrotherGecko wrote: What about her pose suggests the hair should be whipping out like that, considering the large weight at the end?
I like Infinity's models up until they try to do 'sexy' stuff. It always seems to just be the worst. Like they need to stop because they are GW bad at it.
That's the one redeeming feature of metal minis imo. Stuff like that is cake to repose.
-Loki- wrote: There was a lengthy pronunciation thread. I did get Ghulam wrong, read somewhere else about the Kum pronunciation, but that thread makes it sound slightly different. Still, some odd ones in there.
I think the naming of the units is one of the (few) areas in which CB has fallen down. Having names, even if there is a good historical and/or in-game reason, difficult to pronounce is just one more barrier to entry for players. The rules can be hard enough for someone new (or coming from a less complex system, no names...) and often (in my experience) sends them to look elsewhere; the use of sounds completely alien to some languages just makes getting into the game that little bit more difficult. I've had conversations where people have openly admitted liking the models and being interested in play but, because they couldn't read the names of some of the units on the boxes, were put off doing so.
How bizarre. I just pronounce 'em like they're written. If I can't pronounce it, it becomes "those guys with the flamers and funny hats". If the proper pronunciation is miles off how it's written, I'm not that invested that I'm going to remember the proper way.
I never bother with the pronunciation guides in fantasy novels, either. It makes no difference to my reading of the book.
That avicenna model's not bad. Still quite like the original, but with a less "xtreme!" pose.
It's been a while since I read Avicenna's background; is there any good reason why she's in Bakunin? I would have assume Haqqislam, but that's just because Avicenna was a muslim doctor.
Avicenna is the the Muslim doctor, recreated by the satan AI to bring the holy Haqqislam into the fold. After being freed from ALEPH's control the Black Labs hide him in a female Lhost.
BrotherGecko wrote: What about her pose suggests the hair should be whipping out like that, considering the large weight at the end?
I like Infinity's models up until they try to do 'sexy' stuff. It always seems to just be the worst. Like they need to stop because they are GW bad at it.
That's the one redeeming feature of metal minis imo. Stuff like that is cake to repose.
Sure it is...until you've overcorrected it during the repose and stressed the itty bitty part too heavily.
Anyways, Sniper Shot from today:
If they are FINALLY redoing the Wildcats, I might have a problem.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Noir wrote: Avicenna is the the Muslim doctor, recreated by the satan AI to bring the holy Haqqislam into the fold. After being freed from ALEPH's control the Black Labs hide him in a female Lhost.
That's the fluff, not the game reason.
Game reason was because Bakunin had no Mercenary option.
If they are FINALLY redoing the Wildcats, I might have a problem.
Just one? It looks like it could be a Grenzer as well. Or something else. The little knee buttons are the clue.
They have been shifting to shared designs for factions rather than strictly "each Sectorial looks wildly different"--with Ariadna and Combined Army being the notable exceptions.
It could be any number of the different Nomad Medium Infantry. Wildcats, Tomcats, Grenzers, Prowlers, etc.
That color, is that a resin master? The ones made from the metal master ( the one 3d printed.) that are used to make the molds.
I think it might be--or it might be a snapshot of the digital render file, as they sometimes are that color.
Noir wrote: Avicenna is the the Muslim doctor, recreated by the satan AI to bring the holy Haqqislam into the fold. After being freed from ALEPH's control the Black Labs hide him in a female Lhost.
Noir wrote: Avicenna is the the Muslim doctor, recreated by the satan AI to bring the holy Haqqislam into the fold. After being freed from ALEPH's control the Black Labs hide him in a female Lhost.
That's the fluff, not the game reason.
I was asking about the fluff.
Besides what makes Kanluwen an authority on game reasons?
Noir wrote: Avicenna is the the Muslim doctor, recreated by the satan AI to bring the holy Haqqislam into the fold. After being freed from ALEPH's control the Black Labs hide him in a female Lhost.
That's the fluff, not the game reason.
I was asking about the fluff.
Besides what makes Kanluwen an authority on game reasons?
What makes you an authority on game reasons? The fact that you're a "super-moderator" for their forums?
Kanluwen wrote:
What makes you an authority on game reasons? The fact that you're a "super-moderator" for their forums?
Nothing, CB is the authority, but, the fact my name is in page 2 of the rulebook allows me to know when somebody wants to push his personal opinion as a fact, multiple times.
Duncan_Idaho wrote:Actually that´s how printed high-res masters look like.
Let's drop the "no you're wrong about the game reason" "no you are" "well you're just a mod" chat that is getting thrown. It's not N&R so it doesn't belong.
If they are FINALLY redoing the Wildcats, I might have a problem.
Just one? It looks like it could be a Grenzer as well. Or something else. The little knee buttons are the clue.
They have been shifting to shared designs for factions rather than strictly "each Sectorial looks wildly different"--with Ariadna and Combined Army being the notable exceptions.
It could be any number of the different Nomad Medium Infantry. Wildcats, Tomcats, Grenzers, Prowlers, etc.
That color, is that a resin master? The ones made from the metal master ( the one 3d printed.) that are used to make the molds.
I think it might be--or it might be a snapshot of the digital render file, as they sometimes are that color.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I am wondering how easy it will be to convert the HMG in the hands? Scarface was relatively easy.
It depends on whether I can find a replacement hand. I suppose I could just put the gun in the sword hand, but the grip's wrong. I'm trying to think what I've got that has hands like that; perhaps some spare Space Marine hands.
Wow, haven't seen this drop to page 2 in a while. Anyway, we now know some of the December releases, and haven't even seen any of the finished November releases.
Gun holster is definitely Haqqislam. I've been painting enough of them to recognise that. The back pockets look like the back pockets on the Al Hawwa, but the rest of the leg armour looks unfamiliar, and does not match the Govad dossier art. Not that that means anything, it's an early WIP. But it's definitely Haqqislam going by the pockets and holster, and we're meant to be seeing Govads early 2016, so I'd put money on it being them.
But if you prefer a different faction go to the Faction of choice and there are similar version for each power, and often one for each Sectorial as well.
But if you prefer a different faction go to the Faction of choice and there are similar version for each power, and often one for each Sectorial as well.
The data sphere website also has some new player guides that are well worth checking out - efficacy and how to use the minis in the starter sets etc, then some suggestions on how to expand that to 300pts.
Pretty sure that they have that for all of the factions.
Govads have a short jacket, IIRC the concept art correctly
It is definintely a Haqq design. Resculpt of Djanbazan? The Zhayedin? It doesn't look like Hassassin pants though.
AS a reminder, here are this months rumored releases:
Domaru box
Avicenna
Rodoks box
Airborne Ranger
Hassasin Ragik Hacker
And for December:
Kerail + 2 Symbiobeasts
Desperados
Achilles hoplite armour
???
???
We know that something Nomad is coming soon. If the resin masters are ready, then model making and production casting are close at hand-- maybe December. That leaves one to go.
The padding matches up with the redesigned Ghulam from the SWC box. So, that is extremely likely to be something Haqq. It probably isn't the Govads after all since it looks like they wear the Hassassin style bodysuit pants. The Djans have a different design on the sides of their pants, so it's unlikely to be a redesign of them. Since we haven't heard about the basic Ghulam being redone, I'm changing my vote from Govads to Zhayedan.
Good point about the Hassassin bodysuits. Zhayedan is a good guess. Did the new Khawarij dossier have the ribbed pants? That's another possibility. The yhave a coat as well, but it could just be a wip image missing the coat.
Dossier is rarely, if ever, an actual pose. It's just to show off what the base unit looks like. Another example is the face - it's a Hassassin, but the visor is up. Bostria said when they showed it the artist was just having fun drawing a face that day, and the models will have the visor down.
Though rulebook art also shows the sniper with the visor up, so hopefully they've reconsidered that.
-Loki- wrote: Bostria said when they showed it the artist was just having fun drawing a face that day, and the models will have the visor down.
Though rulebook art also shows the sniper with the visor up, so hopefully they've reconsidered that.
I'm quite happy to hear that. I've always loved the Hassassin aesthetic with everyone having helmets and visors. It have them all such an impersonal and almost sinister look.
I can go both ways on it. I like the uniform, inhuman look of the full face helmet on guys that are straight up killers, but I also really like the open face look of the art. Maybe they could give us options in the box, like 4 full face helmets and a couple of open face?
Potentially, but Halqa are being held back for Acheron Falls as they're in the Khanate sectorial. It would be odd to see that unit resculpted over a year before its time when the new profiles don't exist yet, the old models still exist and there's recent units and new unit options that need models. While Naffatun are an example of a resculpt of an Acheron Falls unit getting a recent resculpt, remember that their profiles were kept in the core rulebook. We've been told the Halqa profiles will be kept out of books until Acheron Falls.
WTH is with that first pose? Why don't they just go with this and be done with it?
When you make concept art the intention is to give the artists involved as much information as possible, yes it can be done with the old split in two unnatural standing attention, but Carlos prefers a more dynamic way.
Difficult! It's got to be a Ghulam I think- the pants and bodypiece are dead on... This would be for a new Haqqislam starter in Q1-Q2 2016. I don't think it is a Govad because there is no coat as per the artwork & dossier. I don't think it's a Zhayedan because we haven't even seen a dossier yet, nor have they been mentioned by CB for ages- and I somehow doubt they'd look so similar to the Ghulam. I doubt we'll see Halqa resculpt until Acheron falls & the Khanate sectorial, along with the Al Fassed.
Addmittedly the Haqq starter has aged well, but every model in it has had a new sculpt for other profiles... the Ghulam SCW box, Jannisseries box & blister, and in particular the Naffatun (which got a huge redesign). And finally now even the Hunzakut. I can't see CB wanting to keep the existing set around for too long with the old models, and once it is done it is done.
The more exiting thing is what will be in it... I'm sure the Jan and the Ghulams will stay, but I expect the Naffatun will go and probably the Hunzakut sniper too, in order to bring more in line power-wise with the new PanO and Nomad sets (you can get the Hunzakut sniper in a blister anyway... bet that doesn't sell well!). My money would be on a new Tuargeg sniper to replace the Hunzakut, and then... perhaps a Khawaijs rifle in the "wildcard" slot? We've seen the dossier for those, and then they could finish the Khawaijs profile off with a box.
Jeez, how did I miss the new Khawarij dossier art? Would someone be kind enough to post the most recent Haqq dossiers? I feel like I've missed a bunch.
Barzam wrote: Jeez, how did I miss the new Khawarij dossier art? Would someone be kind enough to post the most recent Haqq dossiers? I feel like I've missed a bunch.
Think the Khawarij and Bashi Bazouk are the only ones who's models haven't come out:
I like it, but I really wish they had at least gone with the APCCW being held in a reversed grip rather than what amounts to a Warmachine/40k styled "Gun+CCW" pose.
Kanluwen wrote: I like it, but I really wish they had at least gone with the APCCW being held in a reversed grip rather than what amounts to a Warmachine/40k styled "Gun+CCW" pose.
If you have a big-ass tesseum laced machete, what is wrong with holding like one?
I personally prefer having the CCW sheathed on a model myself.
Kanluwen wrote: I like it, but I really wish they had at least gone with the APCCW being held in a reversed grip rather than what amounts to a Warmachine/40k styled "Gun+CCW" pose.
If you have a big-ass tesseum laced machete, what is wrong with holding like one?
I personally prefer having the CCW sheathed on a model myself.
Because it ruins the flow of the model.
It looks, like the majority of Infinity models, as though it was intended to be part of a diorama. If he were clipped onto a rappel line and had just landed, the pose would make a bit more sense(minus the machete being out).
All it would have taken to look better is a reversed grip, or the CCW sheathed.
Holding a machete in a reversed grip wouldn't make any sense. They're meant to be held like that since they're designed for swinging and chopping. In a reverse grip, it'd be about as effective as holding a axe ina reverse grip. Sure, you could do it, but you'd effectively lose all utility from the weapon since it isn't meant to be used like that.
I'm really not seeing why you guys are having issue with his pose. He looks fine to me.
I'm really not seeing why you guys are having issue with his pose. He looks fine to me.
Ditto. I love the fig. The pose is fine, and the arms/hands are outstretched enough that conversions should be pretty simple.
@Pacific - If there have been any rumored stats, I'd love to see them! But according to the USARF boxed-set, the SMG Airborne Ranger is 20 pts. Doesn't tell us much, of course, but could be the average stat line +Combat Jump?
Pacific wrote: What's a destiny pose? Something to do with Beyonce?
As long as there isn't a return of the rage buttocks I'm happy..
Dynamic poses
Spoiler:
I'm glad they can get consistent fine detail with 3D modeling, but so many new sculpts just look like they're waiting around at the bus stop.
Part of what made Infinity models so nice when I first started was that they didn't compromise quality just to ensure every possible profile got a model.
If the range didn't have a particular unit profile represented, you substituted.
You didn't need special representation that a guy is a hacker for every single unit. That sneaky zero there could be a hacker just fine.
Nobody cares that the Oniwaban isn't carrying a boarding shotgun because damnit, Would a super ninja look cool if he was holding a shotgun instead of a sword?
It feels like they're too caught up in making sure every single profile has a model.
I know it's easy for Ariadna guys to look boring; they're mostly plain old soldiers with a rifle. But they need to inject some more life back into their sculpts. It's too easy to alter things slightly on 3D sculpts, slap on the specific guns & gear, and crank out a mini.
The 2 new TAGs this month:
The guija is ok. At least he's in a neutral stance but ready with the sword like he's gonna cut a bitch.
But the pose on the Seraph is just unnatural. It looks like a GW terminator just chillin with all his necessary equipment clearly visible so you know which profile is represented.
The usefulness of different profiles being represented became desirable after the introduction of fireteams. People were encouraged to take multiples of the same unit and their weapons and gear not only mattered, but was commonly varied. This is much different from the days of different units and a bunch of budget Fusilier cheerleaders all with the same combirifle.
Just the arm keying alone is worth the jump to digital sculpting. I've put together quite a lot of the new digital stuff and everything lines up perfectly (yes, I'm aware of the Alguacile in Icestorm, but anomalies happen).
Last night I was building the Druze Spitfire, traditionally sculpted like the box, and the arms just don't line up at all if you set the arms like the studio model, and like the boxed Druze there's large gaps that need filling between the body and arms.
Sorry it's a video via Youtube but it's a MiniWarGaming preview.
Abū ´Alī al-Husayn ibn Sīnā (979-1037), was known in the West as ‘Avicenna’. An important Arab philosopher and doctor, he was called 'Prince of Physicians'. Author of the 'Canon of Medicine', his work served as a primary medical education text in Europe and Asia for around four centuries. His reputation provided him with honours, fortune and even political power. He was also known for mixing study and pleasure throughout his life.
The real objective of Project 'Hakim' remains unknown. The effort required to develop a Re-creation doesn’t justify its use for merely experimental or scientific purposes. There is a rumour, running through the gossip shops of Intelligence agencies and conspiracy theory forums, that Project 'Hakim' was the spearhead of an operation develop by ALEPH to win the hearts and minds of Haqqislamite society. The objective would be to make Haqqislam more open to ALEPH’s presence, as is the case in PanOceania or Yu Jing, with the Re-creation of Avicenna as an ‘ambassador’. True or not, the danger to the independence of the philosophical Haqqislamite culture was enough for the Hassassin sect. In partnership with the Black Hand, the Hassassins kidnapped Avicenna, simulating his death in a terrorist raid. His body, disconnected from ALEPH, was translated to one of the Praxis Black Laboratories where it was studied and analysed. All hardware, software, wetware and nanoware that linked the Re-creation with ALEPH was wiped and new and esoteric components were implanted, taken from the HelloBoxes of the ArTechnoDivarius.
However, to develop the second phase of the operation, it was essential Avicenna was untraceable by ALEPH. So, once laboratory investigations were complete, the Re-creation was sent to the Witness Protection program of Black Hand, the most secure in the Human Sphere. They implanted a new and perfect identity chip and partially induced amnesia was used to erase the most controversial aspects of his identity. Finally, they made some slight adjustments to his personality software to facilitate his adaptation to a new body: an advanced feminine Lhost provided by the Hassassin sect.
Lovely model, but the paintjob doesn't seem to be up to Angels usual standards. The grey on the bodysuit is fairly messy. The RPG models had the same feel. I guess the rate they're pumping out models is starting to take its toll, even with Daf helping?
I've done nylons a number of times effectively and quickly. The trick is washes. You paint legs or whatever in the manner you'd normally have them, then use wash layers to produce the amount of effect you need.
For quick but decent ones that don't take a huge amount of effort, even basic Nuln Oil GW stuff does a solid job on pale flesh. Any other highlights can be subtly applied by feathering techniques, but only if you're so inclined.
A lovely model, despite the anaconda hairstyle. And awesome paintwork by Angel as usual. Dunno if i will pick her up or not if my factions cam not use her, but might snag her just to paint for the sake of it.
Mort wrote: Dunno if i will pick her up or not if my factions cam not use her
Right now he's in the Bakunin sectorial, but word is he's also moving to Hassassin when the new model is out. I'd be surprised if he wasn't in whatever sectorial the Black Hand wind up in as well (either their own or if they're rolled into Tunguska), since the Black Hand and Hassassin teamed up to free him. He's also a Mercenary, so if your group isn't too strict on ITS, you can use him in any list.
Personally I don't see the why people are griping about his utility in Bahram. Yes, we have a fantastic linkable Doctor Plus with the Muyib, but that carries the drawbacks of a link along with the benefits. We also have a downright awesome combat Doctor Plus with the Asawira, but he's pretty expensive. Avicenna is a pseudo 2W WIP 15 Doctor Plus with 6-4 MOV and ARM 2 for 29pts. He's not linkable, that's a very fast and pretty durable solo Specialist if you don't want to pay for an Asawira.
Mort wrote: Dunno if i will pick her up or not if my factions cam not use her
Right now he's in the Bakunin sectorial, but word is he's also moving to Hassassin when the new model is out. I'd be surprised if he wasn't in whatever sectorial the Black Hand wind up in as well (either their own or if they're rolled into Tunguska), since the Black Hand and Hassassin teamed up to free him. He's also a Mercenary, so if your group isn't too strict on ITS, you can use him in any list.
Personally I don't see the why people are griping about his utility in Bahram. Yes, we have a fantastic linkable Doctor Plus with the Muyib, but that carries the drawbacks of a link along with the benefits. We also have a downright awesome combat Doctor Plus with the Asawira, but he's pretty expensive. Avicenna is a pseudo 2W WIP 15 Doctor Plus with 6-4 MOV and ARM 2 for 29pts. He's not linkable, that's a very fast and pretty durable solo Specialist if you don't want to pay for an Asawira.
Actually he's kinda the same.
ALEPH re-creates great persons of old, this one was smuggled away and hidden as a female, but the "mind" is supposed to be basically the historical one
B0B MaRlEy wrote: Actually he's kinda the same.
ALEPH re-creates great persons of old, this one was smuggled away and hidden as a female, but the "mind" is supposed to be basically the historical one
B0B MaRlEy wrote: Actually he's kinda the same.
ALEPH re-creates great persons of old, this one was smuggled away and hidden as a female, but the "mind" is supposed to be basically the historical one
Lulz! I stand corrected then, my apologies.
Basically, Aleph created him to gain a foothold in Haqq. The Hassassin didn't like the idea of Aleph having any kind of influence in the Search for Knowledge, so they staged an attack with the Black Hand and kidnapped him. The Hassassin provided an advanced female L-Host and together with the Black Hand they inserted basically all of the software that made the old body Avicenna into the female L-Host.
Mort wrote: Dunno if i will pick her up or not if my factions cam not use her
Right now he's in the Bakunin sectorial, but word is he's also moving to Hassassin when the new model is out. I'd be surprised if he wasn't in whatever sectorial the Black Hand wind up in as well (either their own or if they're rolled into Tunguska), since the Black Hand and Hassassin teamed up to free him. He's also a Mercenary, so if your group isn't too strict on ITS, you can use him in any list.
Personally I don't see the why people are griping about his utility in Bahram. Yes, we have a fantastic linkable Doctor Plus with the Muyib, but that carries the drawbacks of a link along with the benefits. We also have a downright awesome combat Doctor Plus with the Asawira, but he's pretty expensive. Avicenna is a pseudo 2W WIP 15 Doctor Plus with 6-4 MOV and ARM 2 for 29pts. He's not linkable, that's a very fast and pretty durable solo Specialist if you don't want to pay for an Asawira.
Avicenna is a "he"?
er.. anyway, some more pics from the Giraldez facebook page
Looks good. It's always nice to see an AD figure that actually has both feet on the ground. Does anyone know if CB's simplified the way Ragik backpacks are assembled? Like the old Hellcats, the old Ragik packs are kind of annoying to assemble. It'd be great if they simplified them on the newer versions.
The offspring of Miniwargaming. You'll see a few faces that used to be regulars on MWG now on GMG. They do to their credit put out a good amount of videos each week with a wide variety of games including IIRC a weekly show devoted to OOP oldies but goodies. Think Mantic and Warlord vs GW but with that youtube channel.
The offspring of Miniwargaming. You'll see a few faces that used to be regulars on MWG now on GMG. They do to their credit put out a good amount of videos each week with a wide variety of games including IIRC a weekly show devoted to OOP oldies but goodies. Think Mantic and Warlord vs GW but with that youtube channel.
Yeeeah...saying that they're "the offspring of MiniWarGaming" might not win them any favor.
Didn't know that. Your avatar looks nothing like you in the videos.
@Kan: Nope, didn't notice the sig until I rechecked the thread. It was cut off when I posted my response and saw Achilles' post. I should have paged down one more time.
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Kanluwen wrote: [ Yeeeah...saying that they're "the offspring of MiniWarGaming" might not win them any favor.
How so? Are we not allowed to like MWG on dakka now? I don't recall seeing any negative comments about them other than when they were shilling for BTP a year back during their crappy Chaos Dwarves painting debacle.
Yeeeah...saying that they're "the offspring of MiniWarGaming" might not win them any favor.
How so? Are we not allowed to like MWG on dakka now? I don't recall seeing any negative comments about them other than when they were shilling for BTP a year back during their crappy Chaos Dwarves painting debacle.
People can like MWG. To me though?
They'll be that crummy site that kept insinuating that it was GW that made their storefront close, the site that shilled(feels like too weak of a word for what they were doing to be honest) for BTP (under) a year ago about the Chaos Dwarves painting thing, and the site that despite having issues with rules gets brought up as somehow knowing the rules backwards and forwards for many games.
Barzam wrote: Does anyone know if CB's simplified the way Ragik backpacks are assembled? Like the old Hellcats, the old Ragik packs are kind of annoying to assemble. It'd be great if they simplified them on the newer versions.
I assume its like the recent Spitfire re-sculpt which has a single wing piece with a rod in between them that is covered over by a central backpack piece. Easy-peasy and will stay on!
Ash! Although the use of 'bunch' when as far as I know it's just you suggests to me some sort of schizophrenia, which I suppose at least means you can play against yourself and not cheat.
Really like it. The body armour and leg armour is more of a refinement of what they already have. The helmet redesign is much better, and I like the more detailed bodysuit they've been doing for Hassassin. Looks more utilitarian than spandexy.
I've got no issues with the wreckage that it's standing on, but that's never bothered me.
Barzam wrote: Does anyone know if CB's simplified the way Ragik backpacks are assembled? Like the old Hellcats, the old Ragik packs are kind of annoying to assemble. It'd be great if they simplified them on the newer versions.
I assume its like the recent Spitfire re-sculpt which has a single wing piece with a rod in between them that is covered over by a central backpack piece. Easy-peasy and will stay on!
Cool! Thanks for the info! Glad they simplified the build.
-Loki- wrote: Obviously something PanO. But that's hardly surprising, they're the go-to choice for bodies on bases.
But what kind of body? Inquiring minds need to know!
Those backpacks are on both the Bolts and new Fusiliers, and since there's not really enough of the rest of the torso visible to distinguish between MI and LI (which basically look like walking tanks now anyway!) I don't think you'll get more specific than "LI or MI in new, N3 style sculpts". Granted, it's unlikely to be Hexa or Nisse or anything of that sort - line infantry, but not more specific, I'm afraid. Sorry
Wish the Domaru all had their scabbards for swords. Always liked that look even if they're fiddly little bits that you'll never keep on them during transport
Well the Rodoks have won me over, was pretty "meh" when it came to all the other releases this month but, damn, they are sweet. Not a massive fan of the paint job, but the poses on them are awesome.
The rest is pretty uninspiring IMO, didn't really like the pose on the Airborn, not one but two pieces of tactical wreckage and an odd stance ruins the Ragik for me, and Dr. Stab-you-better with the long hair just doesn't do it for me (though is a nice improvement on his original model). I like the motion in the poses on the Domaru (really captured the charge, I like it a lot), but the pose on the Spitfire? Leaning round a corner and over a crate works better if there actually is a corner and crate, she just looks like a spinal injury waiting to happen.
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Bladerunner2019 wrote: Wish the Domaru all had their scabbards for swords. Always liked that look even if they're fiddly little bits that you'll never keep on them during transport
Every one of them with a sword also has a scabbard?
The only one without is Miss Spinal Injury, I assume 'cus she doesn't have a sword.
Oh wow. I like everything in this batch. Gonna have to get those Domaru and Rodoks for sure. I love the redesigned Domaru armor. The helmets look much cooler, too. Yeah, gonna be hard waiting for these releases.
Pacific wrote: Those Domaru.. feth me, those are wondrous.
Can see Shae-Konnit struggling to hold on to that running one with the two swords!
Actually really like the painting job as well, with the more chipped/worn look for the running guy, much more of a utilitarian style.
that is my favorite one of the bunch...
what a brutal looking future Samurai!!!
i still need to finish painting the original girl, but these are going on the "to buy" list, for sure...
looking at the extra pics, i am really liking the pose on the Airborne Ranger...
the backward lean makes him look cool under fire, somehow...
USAriadna is really tempting me!!!
B0B MaRlEy wrote: Shame on that miniature market deal, with the shipping it's basically the same as getting it from UK retailers for me :/
I don't understand why there are no UK retailers that offer deals like MM. If they can do it in the US why not the UK?
OT, these releases are all bloody amazing.
A combination of factors,
The fact we pay VAT which is baked into prices (rather that smaller state sales tax that is added at the end of the transaction only if the deleiver address in in state) means that even if a retailer did take the same cut in profit it would look worse
The US stores have a larger customer base to work off, so they can afford to make less money on each sale as they can make more sales overall to make up the difference
(and the distributors that sell to them operate the same way so they probably get stuff cheaper to start with)
More completion all of whom are also up for heavy discounting, if you don't do it you won't sell stuff
Well I would save 4 bucks by ordering it with that sale, but with the risk of getting pinged at the customs I'll just leave that box to someone in the States
I'm waiting to see the (other) profiles of the airborne rangers in the army, there's a blank profile in there when you look for parachutists but nothing more
Mm got me for the new CA starter. Plus that morat I got the other day... I could see myself making a proper force of then, almost all of the new guys looks awesome. Plus raicho.
GrimDork wrote: Mm got me for the new CA starter. Plus that morat I got the other day... I could see myself making a proper force of then, almost all of the new guys looks awesome. Plus raicho.
I can't stand the Raicho. I hope we get a new one but I'm not holding my breath.
Bladerunner2019 wrote: Wish the Domaru all had their scabbards for swords. Always liked that look even if they're fiddly little bits that you'll never keep on them during transport
Every one of them with a sword also has a scabbard?
The only one without is Miss Spinal Injury, I assume 'cus she doesn't have a sword.
I think he meant that both the previous models came with a pair of swords, even though neither model was actually wielding them. They are samurai, after all.
GrimDork wrote: Mm got me for the new CA starter. Plus that morat I got the other day... I could see myself making a proper force of then, almost all of the new guys looks awesome. Plus raicho.
I can't stand the Raicho. I hope we get a new one but I'm not holding my breath.
Seeing as it was just released not that long ago, I think you're in for a bit of a wait...
Eh, the tables I play on have a mix of kinds of terrains (military bases overrun by jungle) so most of them do end up mattering (except Zero-gravity I'll confess)
But playing MRRF I have a bunch of Multiterrain so I'm kinda spoiled there
GrimDork wrote: Mm got me for the new CA starter. Plus that morat I got the other day... I could see myself making a proper force of then, almost all of the new guys looks awesome. Plus raicho.
I can't stand the Raicho. I hope we get a new one but I'm not holding my breath.
Seeing as it was just released not that long ago, I think you're in for a bit of a wait...
B0B MaRlEy wrote: Eh, the tables I play on have a mix of kinds of terrains (military bases overrun by jungle) so most of them do end up mattering (except Zero-gravity I'll confess)
But playing MRRF I have a bunch of Multiterrain so I'm kinda spoiled there
Annoyingly, Multiterrain seems to cost the same as specialized terrain skills.
Makes me wonder why they just don't make Multiterrain the terrain skill.
They put those skills on undercosted troops to balance them with the rest of the armies.
The Bashi Bazouk is a paratrooper that costs 14 points COME ON!
I kind of understand the issue. USARF is right now, one of the most cost-efective armies, and it hasn't received all the troop profiles yet.
Specialist Cammo Infiltrators for 18 points! PanO has to spend 32 points to have something similar.
Specialist bikers with Smoke for 19 points! Yu Jing has to spend 30 points for that and they have No smoke.
Para trooper for 20 points! Hassassin Bahram has to pay 26 points for that.
The Airborne ranger was probabaly even cheaper and they added the jungle terrain to increase the price... because keping with these low cost super effective troops is an insult to the rest of the Armies.
I would keep on writing but I have a friend here who plays ALEPH, he is crying now!
Having just painted my Raicho, I think I'm in agreement with you, ImAGeek. The Raicho is way too small. It seriously needs a redo.
I'm glad to see that CB didn't invalidate the Domaru figures I already own. It does make me curious though if they're going to release a new style Domaru with Chain Rifle in a blister or if they are actually going to keep the current one in circulation.
It looks like that is the JSA profile of the Domaru as it is AVA 5 and has a Lieutenant option. I wonder if vanilla will get access to all the profiles?
B0B MaRlEy wrote: Eh, the tables I play on have a mix of kinds of terrains (military bases overrun by jungle) so most of them do end up mattering (except Zero-gravity I'll confess)
But playing MRRF I have a bunch of Multiterrain so I'm kinda spoiled there
Annoyingly, Multiterrain seems to cost the same as specialized terrain skills.
Makes me wonder why they just don't make Multiterrain the terrain skill.
Does it matter that much?
Without having access to the criteria that CB use for point calculations, the feel I get is that these kinds of skills don't really cost anything points wise.
And, it's a neat way of adding a theme and tying in the miniature on the tabletop with its background. Nice little extra for people who go the extra mile with their terrain, too.
drazz wrote: The USAriadna terrain skill is a little odd. There are exactly 0 jungles in the US.
Yes, I know there are jungles on Paradise, but the whole of the USAriadna range seems to play off the modern American stereotypes.
I think it's more that Ariadna's home-planet (Dawn) has a bunch of jungle on it, maybe even in the turf USARF hangs out in. I would assume CB was thinking more along those lines, than if 'America' had any jungles or not in our real world.
While the factions might be derivative of real-world countries and such, CB has also forged its own path in regards to some of their background/them, as well. It sure would be nice if the Yanks, Ruskies, Scots, and Frenchies could all work together in RL.
But anyway - I had read the same rumor that Loki mentions, as well - a second AB Ranger sculpt being 'in the works'. Maybe I misread it... or maybe it's around the corner for early 2016.
Forests mostly, big and deep forests, "jungle terrain" covers all terrain covered in flora, not just jungles and it makes sense for most troops coming from Dawn.
Perhaps Arboreal (Arboreous?) Terrain would be a better descriptor than Jungle Terrain. Maybe it's a holdover/prejudice but jungle does seem to feature in the more modern/sci-fi settings whereas deciduous woodland is a staple of fantasy...
Henshini wrote: It looks like that is the JSA profile of the Domaru as it is AVA 5 and has a Lieutenant option. I wonder if vanilla will get access to all the profiles?
Not the Lt. profile, but all weapon loadouts seem to be there.
AVA 2 in Vanilla. Can't remember what it was before (might be up from AVA 1).
Spec ops aren't in any PDF I've seen and while you can build a spec op in the builder, the rules aren't there. (when can link, no double weapons, gear restrictions, etc.)
I actually quite like the background story section with Campaign Paradiso.
It advances the story a little from the main rulebook (or at least, it did before N3) and the bit when the Human Sphere AI (Aleph basically) squares off against the Combined Army EI is cool beyond words.
Pacific wrote: I actually quite like the background story section with Campaign Paradiso.
It advances the story a little from the main rulebook (or at least, it did before N3) and the bit when the Human Sphere AI (Aleph basically) squares off against the Combined Army EI is cool beyond words.
It didn't "advance the story". The main rulebook was set post-Paradiso.
Formosa wrote: Can someone explain to me why these guys are mv 10-10 as it makes no sense to me??
Metric system.
Lingering thoughts from early Autumn...
Any word on the release of N3:HS? I know it was pushed into next year, but are we talking Jan/Feb? or ever later than that?
CB is slowly getting the older TAGs refurbished.
Guija looks great.
Any word on a new Szalamandra? I love the old one, but it has huge potential with what they can do now.
Just going through my youtube feed on the TV and it looks like Leland has left Miniwargaming and he was the Infinity guy apparently. They'll no longer be covering Infinity (news and/or battle reports) and were considering that even before he left.
IIRC Guerilla Games started doing previews last week or so for the first time that I noticed (and was founded and is frequented by ex-MWG'ers). That'd be my guess.
The only sensible reason to stop making infinity videos is that they don't get enough views. From a quick look at their channel, it looks like most of the infinity batreps get 3-5k views comparable to Warmachine whereas 40k typically gets 15k+ (frequently 20k+) and even AOS is around 10k. I guess for the effort they put into it, they'd get more clicks/views/ad revenue devoting it to GW stuff.
For me personally, I stopped watching their infinity games as they just didn't appeal to me. I'm a fan of stompy robots which obviously would be TAGs for this game and I rarely saw them. It was usually tiny truescaled 25mm normal infantry versus other tiny truescaled normal 25mm infantry. The figs would frequently get lost in all the excellent terrain that you see on infinity games. The quality and quantity of the terrain combined with tiny figs and very few zoom ins turned me off visually a bit. I watch videos for the painted mini eye candy and I didn't really feel like I was getting enough of it once the army list discussion was over 30 seconds in. Add in the likely sensible lack of TAGs (from reading this thread, it sounds like they're not generally worth it in game despite the impressive looking models).
Ash at GMG have been doing Infinity reps for a fair few months now, and now MWG have packed it in he's got the best production on them by a long way, which is one reason I back the channel on patreon.
From what Matthew said on the same video MWG were looking to increase quality at the expense of quantity, and Infinity being one of their lesser popular brands they cobvered it made sense it would make room for (*gulps*) more 40k. It makes business sense, but is a shame.
That leaves GMG, Gaming with the Cooler and (when he releases them) Micky Ward for my Infinity batrep fixes.
warboss wrote: ...Add in the likely sensible lack of TAGs (from reading this thread, it sounds like they're not generally worth it in game despite the impressive looking models).
They are worth it in non ITS scenario games. CB knows that they have a problem with selling TAGS at the moment. It seems that they think newer and shinier will help. Revising the ITS Scenarios would help more. If ones plays YAMS or 20x20 then TAGs become useful and fun again.
The interesting question would be how many play ITS vs other types of game? I would hazard a guess that there are more casual players, or people who just want to buy a TAG to paint or because it looks cool.
I own several TAGs for instance in factions I don't even play! And, people have commented in threads that they buy them even if they don't play Infinity.
Guess it's very hard to tell without having access to the sales figures, but I wouldn't take a lack of presence in some website AAR as an indicator that TAGs aren't selling.
Pacific wrote: ...Guess it's very hard to tell without having access to the sales figures, but I wouldn't take a lack of presence in some website AAR as an indicator that TAGs aren't selling.
This pretty much. In the meta I play in, TAGs aren't usually taken because players don't feel they are 'worth' the points costs. A large chunk of points seriously cuts down on orders, and even though TAGs CAN wreck face, there are also plenty of counters available for them.
It's a fine-line, though, making them 'worth their cost' without going overboard and making them dominant. I have zero interest in playing a game where TAGs/dreadnaughts/walkers/etc dominate the game. Resculpting them definitely should help sales - I'm one of those people Pacific alluded to who bought some 'just because they look cool'. It will be interesting to see where CB goes with them.
I'd be more than OK if T.A.G.'s became...'more worth taking' in Infinity!
And re-sculpting them (or just finally getting them models in some cases) certainly helps.
Though oddly enough I really do love the Lizard and Szalamandra as is too!
I think T.A.G.'s show up a lot more in 'friendlies' than in ITS tournaments - though as noted they apparently appear in non-ITS tournaments a lot more too, though I can't speak to that!
I recall folks in the N2 era complaining of rambo'ing TAGs being too powerful. Experienced players usually responded with "leArn 2 play n00B!" and instructions to just kill everything else and do the mission but maybe Corvus Belli were listening to the complaints from the "average joe" player. I know they expanded the hacking rules which obviously affect TAGs primarily in N3 but I suspect that was part of their solution.
Did the pendulum swing too far in N3 maybe? I don't play personally but I watch lots of video reports and I very rarely see TAGs being played regardless of whether the mission is specifically labelled ITS or not. I will admit that I myself can't recognize an ITS mission from one that isn't except maybe by the presence of an HVT (are they only ITS?). Either way, I purposely look for the TAGs in videos and have for a while skipped reports without them so at least online they're very few and far between.
Ah, I believe you've hit it - the biggest 'issue' for T.A.G.'s in N3 was the expansion of Hacker Powers, I think?
I have no local INFINITY scene whatsoever though, but if I did, I imagine we'd be able to figure something out in order to field T.A.G.s and have fun doing so!
Hacking isn't really stronger, or the game more balanced toward killing TAGs, I think Noir is correct and it's a symptom of objective based gameplay.
Before Achilles or a Jotum or a Cutter could walk around taking objectives while being a murder machine because they are Lt. choices. Now they're "only" murder machines.
Depends on the mission though, doesn't it? Quadrant control seems to like a good mission for TAG's, especially when they can usually dominate a zone by themselves. Other than that, I rarely see TAG's though I still use my Iguanna, as Corrigedor still allows me to squeeze 14-16 orders in, with several specialists.
Lanlaorn wrote: Hacking isn't really stronger, or the game more balanced toward killing TAGs, I think Noir is correct and it's a symptom of objective based gameplay.
Before Achilles or a Jotum or a Cutter could walk around taking objectives while being a murder machine because they are Lt. choices. Now they're "only" murder machines.
Hacking absolutely is stronger. Hacking went from something which was a part of the game but not always seen in lists to something that is a necessity.
Hacking absolutely is more interesting, but not really stronger. In the active turn it remains inefficient, the Reset ARO hurts and the standard GML "dirty trick" was heavily nerfed as Spotlight is a really bad program.
Plus more and more armies either give you swarms of cheap infantry with nothing to hack or a few HI with shockingly high BTS values.
The value in hacking IMO is in the reactive turn, supportware and objective taking.
Noir wrote: TAGs stop showing up in ITS games when Lt. could no longer take objectives.
This would be my experience as well.
Sure, hacking got better, but in my experience a shotgun to the 'nads will still happily retire said nuisance from your opponent's order pool. It's good that there's a bit more of a threat around, and it's certainly not something I take lightly, but it's hardly a reason not to take TAGs anymore - just a reason to be a bit smarter about their usage. The Lt. thing, however? that just means it's very, very hard to still take enough specialists while taking a TAG.
Revising that ridiculous tournament system of theirs a bit seems like a better solution though; the resilience of a TAG meant you could often just risk dashing for an objective that was, otherwise, pretty well-defended. That really shouldn't be happening either.
Hacking got better, not stronger, but the TAGs problem was the fact they stopped been objective grabbers.
Admittedly people could use a TAG is kill based missions, but the mentality of making two entirely different lists has not hit the wide player base yet.
The HMG adjustment also made the TAGs to be a long range unit which creates its own problems, overall TAGs became a more skill based unit and that maybe intimidates people.
The first game I took my Squalo in was a friendly ITS tournament mission of Biotechvore, with the hope it would be an easy chunk of points to get out my deployment zone, while picking of my opponents troops as they tried to escape forwards. My opponent had first turn and with his first order moved one of his troops out of the way of it, so I ARO'd with my MHMG. He decided to fire back on a whim with his Panzerfaust, which has explosive ammo. Some really bad rolling and my Squalo died in flames. I'd also made it my LT, which meant I started my first turn in loss of lieutenant, which meant none of my troops could escape the Biotechvore zone, and I was in retreat by the end of the turn.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Postscript: I really like ITS and the mission system, and think Infinity would be considerably weaker without it.
The idea of the tournament system, including its format to keep players in contention for winning even after losing a game*, is a good one. The current abundance of scenarios is nice. The scenarios, au fond, are still based on N2 Infinity. Revise and update them.
Hacking needed to be better developed from N2, but in N3 it is perhaps too much, 25 hacking programs at the moment-- and more rumored to come with the revises to EVO and such ( this is a N&R thread, eh?)-- of a game within a game. There are of course ways to protect your TAG from hacking with counter-hacking. Or just shoot the enemy hacker. Or burn them. Naffatun FTW
*Since TTG tournaments are not elimination based, like a proper winner takes all tournament, they ought to be structured to give all participants a reason to continue playing, or to give people who have lost a game some reason to continue playing in the tournament. ITS does this.
Any word on the Nomad mini for the months. A bandit?
xowainx wrote: The first game I took my Squalo in was a friendly ITS tournament mission of Biotechvore, with the hope it would be an easy chunk of points to get out my deployment zone, while picking of my opponents troops as they tried to escape forwards. My opponent had first turn and with his first order moved one of his troops out of the way of it, so I ARO'd with my MHMG. He decided to fire back on a whim with his Panzerfaust, which has explosive ammo. Some really bad rolling and my Squalo died in flames. I'd also made it my LT, which meant I started my first turn in loss of lieutenant, which meant none of my troops could escape the Biotechvore zone, and I was in retreat by the end of the turn.
To be fair, this really is just bad luck. You were using a strategy you had in mind, but were in what is widely thought to be the worst scenario of ITS 2015 and had the bad luck to lose what should have been a fairly easy firefight - high burst (presumeably in a good range band) against a low burst weapon. Then proceeded to fail 3 armour saves which.
This isn't an indictment of TAGs in ITS, it's just plain bad luck.
xowainx wrote: The first game I took my Squalo in was a friendly ITS tournament mission of Biotechvore, with the hope it would be an easy chunk of points to get out my deployment zone, while picking of my opponents troops as they tried to escape forwards. My opponent had first turn and with his first order moved one of his troops out of the way of it, so I ARO'd with my MHMG. He decided to fire back on a whim with his Panzerfaust, which has explosive ammo. Some really bad rolling and my Squalo died in flames. I'd also made it my LT, which meant I started my first turn in loss of lieutenant, which meant none of my troops could escape the Biotechvore zone, and I was in retreat by the end of the turn.
To be fair, this really is just bad luck. You were using a strategy you had in mind, but were in what is widely thought to be the worst scenario of ITS 2015 and had the bad luck to lose what should have been a fairly easy firefight - high burst (presumeably in a good range band) against a low burst weapon. Then proceeded to fail 3 armour saves which.
This isn't an indictment of TAGs in ITS, it's just plain bad luck.
I know and agree, it's a good example of how fragile a TAG can be though, and that having a third of your points tied up in something that can be one-shotted by a not too expensive model, when you could have taken a well kitted out link team, or, as I did for the other missions in that tournament, a second Swiss Guard and a few other bits and bobs, which would give you a larger order pool and more targets on the ground. I think realistically, TAGs need to be that vulnerable, and need to be slightly underpowered, as otherwise they'd be an auto-include, and I don't think that would be for the best, as the whole meta would have to change to accommodate them.
xowainx wrote: The first game I took my Squalo in was a friendly ITS tournament mission of Biotechvore, with the hope it would be an easy chunk of points to get out my deployment zone, while picking of my opponents troops as they tried to escape forwards. My opponent had first turn and with his first order moved one of his troops out of the way of it, so I ARO'd with my MHMG. He decided to fire back on a whim with his Panzerfaust, which has explosive ammo. Some really bad rolling and my Squalo died in flames. I'd also made it my LT, which meant I started my first turn in loss of lieutenant, which meant none of my troops could escape the Biotechvore zone, and I was in retreat by the end of the turn.
To be fair, this really is just bad luck. You were using a strategy you had in mind, but were in what is widely thought to be the worst scenario of ITS 2015 and had the bad luck to lose what should have been a fairly easy firefight - high burst (presumeably in a good range band) against a low burst weapon. Then proceeded to fail 3 armour saves which.
This isn't an indictment of TAGs in ITS, it's just plain bad luck.
I know and agree, it's a good example of how fragile a TAG can be though, and that having a third of your points tied up in something that can be one-shotted by a not too expensive model, when you could have taken a well kitted out link team, or, as I did for the other missions in that tournament, a second Swiss Guard and a few other bits and bobs, which would give you a larger order pool and more targets on the ground. I think realistically, TAGs need to be that vulnerable, and need to be slightly underpowered, as otherwise they'd be an auto-include, and I don't think that would be for the best, as the whole meta would have to change to accommodate them.
It's not like there's news to talk about so I'll go along with this.
I have a feeling TAGS have seen a diminished role because CB doesn't want to leave factions that normally don't use them, like Haqq & a nomads feel to left out. If TAGS were clearly a superior choice PanO would have a clear advantage over every other list
TAGs just need to be an equal choice. And they could be, if the... meh, I've said it enough times already. We'll see the ITS format and scenarios for 2016 in late February or March. CB released ITS2015 in mid-March last year, but they are hard at work on the HSN3, which may mean a delay in the ITS.
So we get the Govads in January? Fingers crossed. I'm wondering if CB will do something with the face masks up, like CB did the one Mobile Brigada. That might work out very well. I liked it on the MB.
Father Knight spitfire
Spektr with Boarding shotgun
USAriadna starter pack - Desperados in January
Kerail + Symbiobeasts - They needed to rescale them because they were bigger than TAGs
Achilles in Hoplite Armour Multiple hand options
Operation Flamestrike - Collaboration with Beast of War. Small campaign on small island on the Paradiso, new missions, Players will influence what will happen via battle reports, There will be some achievement which will grant prizes for players.
The "USAriadna Starter Pack", remember, is the following models:
3x Grunts with Rifles
1x Minuteman with 2x Light Flamethrowers
1x Marauder with Heavy Flamethrower
1x Foxtrot Ranger with Rifle.
It's nice they're bringing that out, but I really would have rather gotten a Marauder box
Or a Minutemen box
I'd have been interested in the starter, but I've just found an USAriadna army pack with the exclusive in it, so I'll get the contents anyway
Curious to see the desperados and how their profiles are different from the mavericks though
There's still TONS of the USAriadna Army Packs floating around. I genuinely don't know why anyone would buy the "standard" starter pack compared to the Army Pack if they have the option.
Army Pack nets you a Maverick, Devil Dog, and terrain.
$10 for terrain, $30ish for the Maverick, and probably $40-50 for the Devil Dog.
Around $54 base for the starter pack and you're waaaaay over the price of the Army Pack with just the Devil Dog in there.
It's literally a no-brainer, even if you're "just" after another Minuteman/Marauder/Foxtrot.
Operation Flamestrike - Collaboration with Beast of War. Small campaign on small island on the Paradiso, new missions, Players will influence what will happen via battle reports, There will be some achievement which will grant prizes for players.
This sounds very intriguing.
Looking forward to seeing what they come up with the new Achilles options also.
Kanluwen wrote: There's still TONS of the USAriadna Army Packs floating around. I genuinely don't know why anyone would buy the "standard" starter pack compared to the Army Pack if they have the option.
Army Pack nets you a Maverick, Devil Dog, and terrain.
$10 for terrain, $30ish for the Maverick, and probably $40-50 for the Devil Dog.
Around $54 base for the starter pack and you're waaaaay over the price of the Army Pack with just the Devil Dog in there.
It's literally a no-brainer, even if you're "just" after another Minuteman/Marauder/Foxtrot.
I'm not finding any in Australia outside of inflated ebay prices. With the current exchange rates, buying one from overseas would come out more expensive than the starter and everything individually, even from a discount retailer.
But you knew America isn't the world and just made an honest mistake there, I know.
Father Knight spitfire
Spektr with Boarding shotgun
USAriadna starter pack - Desperados in January
Kerail + Symbiobeasts - They needed to rescale them because they were bigger than TAGs
Achilles in Hoplite Armour Multiple hand options
Operation Flamestrike - Collaboration with Beast of War. Small campaign on small island on the Paradiso, new missions, Players will influence what will happen via battle reports, There will be some achievement which will grant prizes for players.
The "USAriadna Starter Pack", remember, is the following models:
3x Grunts with Rifles
1x Minuteman with 2x Light Flamethrowers
1x Marauder with Heavy Flamethrower
1x Foxtrot Ranger with Rifle.
It's nice they're bringing that out, but I really would have rather gotten a Marauder box
Spektr with boarding shotgun where do I sign up?
Why does collecting nomads involve so many blister purchases? Boxes are so much more fun to buy, open, and collect.
Operation Flamestrike - Collaboration with Beast of War. Small campaign on small island on the Paradiso, new missions, Players will influence what will happen via battle reports, There will be some achievement which will grant prizes for players.
This sounds very intriguing.
Looking forward to seeing what they come up with the new Achilles options also.
I really like the model, but man I have trouble fitting Spektrs into my lists now, the last thing I need is another.
It just feels like a Zero serves the same role, and the better camo isn't that great when people constantly include several cheap template units milling around these days.
Lanlaorn wrote: I really like the model, but man I have trouble fitting Spektrs into my lists now, the last thing I need is another.
It just feels like a Zero serves the same role, and the better camo isn't that great when people constantly include several cheap template units milling around these days.
Lanlaorn wrote: I really like the model, but man I have trouble fitting Spektrs into my lists now, the last thing I need is another.
It just feels like a Zero serves the same role, and the better camo isn't that great when people constantly include several cheap template units milling around these days.
Spektrs are Tunguska units, not Bakunin units.
So while certainly the two compete with each other in vanilla lists? Remember that Tunguska is going to get their own Sectorial where Zeros aren't a thing.
A battlefield is no place for a Discman to listen to your archaic music :p
Look at the dirty floor, it is a roomba he is deploying. If you can hear music it is only because it is DJ Roomba
As it's Spanish, it's probably a greatest hits disc of Venga Boys. It goes off in anyone comes near it, ends with the combatants falling to the ground in tears with their ears bleeding.
Guijia looks pretty good.
Sound it out. Don't worry if how you say it is how a native speaker would say it. Do any of you native English speakers think you "correctly" pronounce all the various words of Latin or French or Spanish, or pretty much every other language on this planet -- Succotash for example. An Algonquian word -- that we have imported into English? Anglicize the Infinity names just as we have anglicized the imported words. Or [your language here]-cize the names. Do you think Spaniards pronounce Djanbazan the same as English speakers? Or even the same as Mexicans? Nope, they don't. Heck, native English speakers have different pronunciations for many words. try this: Neither tomato nor vase nor vitamin has a universal pronunciation. The only incorrect pronunciation is one nobody understands.
I suspect the hair can be "styled". A fine mini, nothing spectacular though.
