Coming back into the game after several years. My collection of orks looks to be mobile, with a transport for every squad. I am debating on whether or not to keep my mega nobs. Are they worth their points in todays rule set? Or are they being sold?

Thanks dakka!

Edit: Our group typically plays 1500 points or less.

The times I have played against them they were worthwhile. I am building an Ork army now with 5 of them.

Battlewagon with Mega Nobz + Necron flyers = win!

Mega Nobz alongside Biker Nobz are about the only real viable ways to run Nobz nowadays as with the boost to 2+ saves with the changes to power weapons most melee weapons that will ignore your armour will go simultaneously with your Mega Nobz now so you don't have to worry about being slaughtered by Howling Banshees before you can strike. Their cost efficiency compared to regular Nobz and Biker Nobz also makes them a good choice for a retinue for a Mega-Armour Warboss or as a MANZ missile (3 in a trukk).

So long as you support them with enough mobile targets which your OP seems to suggest they are worthwhile. Just keep in mind that as with most Nobz they are bully units, always point them towards units that they will stomp flat and feed the boyz into the really scary units until they're whittled down enough for them to be manageable or are dead.

Also for me it's always fun to occasionally give them cybork bodies via Grotsnik to make them that much more durable, especially so if Grotsnik actually joins their unit to give FNP and Fearless but that's often too big a risk to take.

Mega Nobz are great, but they need a battlewagon, and usually a MegaBoss for the bosspole. They are very cost efficient compared to regular nobs.
I have had success in the past with a few in a trukk as a good ambush to hide behind LoS blocking terrain and make the enemy think twice about moving up.

Thank you grimskul. Your input is really helpful. One thing that I failed to mention was that our group typically plays smaller game (1500 or less). Getting mega nobs into a transport at that point level looks very expensive. Are they still worth it at that point?

In my experience I would say yes.

Mine have never let me down. Cram them in a Wagon, give your opponent some more instantly threatening targets, and then watch them do their thing in melee. Watching 5 and a Megaboss crush everything in sight is beautiful.

By no means an auto-include but definitely a choice to consider

 Dakkamite wrote:
By no means an auto-include but definitely a choice to consider

Agreed.

Other from a missile and warboss retinue uses - you can also use them as a kff mek min-squad retinue in a battlewagon. Even 3 of them can kill many things in mellee with 12 ws4 s9 ap2 attacks. And if the wagon gets shot down midfield - can continue footslogging forward, attracting fire, providing cover to nearby orkses and still having 2+, 5+ cover.

Works great when you allready have 3 wagonz full of shootaboyz.

Maganobz are MVP's. Run em with Gretchin and laugh to victory. 10 in the unit? Worth it.

10 in the unit is a waste. They're too slow to spend 400 pts in one place. Get the wagon destroyed and they're stuck midfield at best.

As little as three also pretty much murder anything without AP2 weapons. While overkill is funny, it's also a waste of points.

I like MANz. On top of a useful way to run your nobs, the models are pretty cool. As mentioned though, much more then 5 and you're probably not getting your points back.

They work really well as a retinue for your HQ choices, be they Meks or Warbosses, or maybe weirdboys? Honestly though if you're looking for efficiency, weirdboys aren't the best idea.

Other from a missile and warboss retinue uses - you can also use them as a kff mek min-squad retinue in a battlewagon. Even 3 of them can kill many things in mellee with 12 ws4 s9 ap2 attacks. And if the wagon gets shot down midfield - can continue footslogging forward, attracting fire, providing cover to nearby orkses and still having 2+, 5+ cover.

I like the cut of your jib, that really is a good use for these guys

 koooaei wrote:
10 in the unit is a waste. They're too slow to spend 400 pts in one place. Get the wagon destroyed and they're stuck midfield at best.

Who said anything about using a wagon?

 Jancoran wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
10 in the unit is a waste. They're too slow to spend 400 pts in one place. Get the wagon destroyed and they're stuck midfield at best.

Who said anything about using a wagon?

Do you actually footslog a 10 man unit of Mega-Nobz up the field? I commend you for your Orky bravery and cojones but that is a major points-sink into a unit that is asking to be blown up by a demolisher cannon or slain by a million cuts. I'm guessing your local meta is a little bit low on the large blast template AP2 department because with SnP they can't even run, making them effectively stuck in your deployment zone as objective baby-sitters (a major waste of points for such a costly + deadly unit) or in the case of other missions like Purge the Alien a big target sign that has little to no way to inflict retribution against long-ranged or even medium-ranged firepower (like grav-spam) or will be almost guaranteed to be on the end of a charge that will wipe out most of the unit before they can strike (i.e. things like Skarbrand, Swarmlord, or other scary MC like Mawlocs exploding beneath them).

Yeah that definitely got my attention. What on earth do you mean?

So glad you asked.

Now i am not actually a hard core ork player. However...

I am a hard core 40K player and i DId tyake a buddies leftovers and go 8-0 with them, having never owned the models myself and never having read the codex front to back.

So it was a challenge.

making matters worse, he had lost a lot of his stuff so i was stuck playing with a gretchin army, pretty much. More awesome.

The 10 man meganob squad was an MVP. I can deploy accordingly against things like a Vindicator but it wasn't going to be around very long after the Zzap Guns (all 9, twin linked by Ammo runts for a few shots) and lootas were done.

Artillery? Got me several missile buggies and kommandos to handle that.

One thing 40K players do a lot is talk about units in a vacuum. But the meganobz aren't IN a vaccuum. And if i kill the FEW STR 8 large blasts you have and take copious cover on the way in (not accounting for terrain and other advantages) I give myself a very good shot at arriving right on time with the heaviest hammering blow i think i've ever levelled against another player. When those Meganobz go off...it's...wondrous, and usually against their last ditch effrots to try and get past me to objectives they'll never reach.

I enjoyed the CRAP outta playing them. My last mission with the meganobz brigade ended disastrously when they failed a Morale check RIGHT before they were to plow the main line offense of the enemy. Dayam. Ended up getting eaten up by shooting forthe two rounds it took me to regroup and come back.

Still, it took a fortuitous roll to beat me and he earned it. Kudos to him. that was at the top table of a tournie I took that crazy army to.

Morale of the story is, Meganobz with Gretchin was an awesome combo, way better than any piece of paper would tell you it is.

They're just too slow to footslog. Even regular boyz are too slow. Just think of how long will it take a snp model to footslog across the field. 4 turns to move 24' in the open without casualties and dt tests. They can be just plain ignored for the whole game and 400 pts that's doing nothing is not really great usually. They look cool ofc, but footslogging meganobz is not a good advice.

 koooaei wrote:
They're just too slow to footslog. Even regular boyz are too slow. Just think of how long will it take a snp model to footslog across the field. 4 turns to move 24' in the open without casualties and dt tests. They can be just plain ignored for the whole game and 400 pts that's doing nothing is not really great usually. They look cool ofc, but footslogging meganobz is not a good advice.

I think you're missing the point though.

In the army I played, the enemy NEEDED to kill Gretchin to get to me with melee. catch-22 if they do, I kill them in melee. So then they need to shoot me but they are kept quite busy with careening buggies in their rear arcs and the need to get rid of my cover and the need...most importantly... and heres the thing... to get to OBJECTIVES. They NEED to come closer EVENTUALLY so I don't HAVE to do all the slogging. Not all of it.

In fact in some missions thereis no slogging. Just waiting for the enemy to get to me, and knowing I can beat them down. Drop armies couldn't get close enough to rapid fire (too many grots and reserves are cool)/ They can't drop Nobs with Serpents. Takes so many shots just to kill ONE. They gotta bring the big guns but then they cannot come closer and lootas dont give them long to fire. And when its time to capture stuff, they either cant...or they have to deal with me to get there. Of course they can use long range stuff to kill lootas 9and many do) but then... you're not firing heavy stuff at Meganobz

Now in the very last game I played (a loss) the enemy had some advantages. and lets face it: i was playing with what I had to borrow. But even with that said, his whole army was kept at bay and he just got lucky at the right time, lined his commander and his bikerz up and readied to rumble me, only the shooting finally got me to make a morale test and we never got to see that play out. Just...what happens sometimes.

Still... the bottom line was, i didn't need a transport in any of those games and one wouldn't have made my strategy stronger in the last game. It took him five rounds to get me to a morale test and it had to go to turn seven for him to win. No battlewagon needed IF you support the unit on the way in and make life tough on the enemy.

I dont have any magic wand BUT I saw what I saw.

In most games you got to go forward and not just wait for the opponent to out-shoot and out-maneuvre you. I'm just stating that meganobz are gona make it across the table by turn 5 at best doing literally nothing except for being there the whole game. Sure, it depends on your opponent's lists but i don't see 10 footslogging mnobz working vs any even remotedly ballanced list.

I really enjoy the MANz missile along side plenty of other wagons and trukks.

so 3 in a trukk thats roughly160ish, point it directly at a nice soft target and plow full speed ahead into that unit

The main benefits being that its a small unit in terms of cost, but will still pack a deadly punch if left to its own devices. The opponent will then either have to pump shots into your trukk in order to prevent the MANz reaching his lines, thus not shooting into your nice big battlewagons loaded with boys.

Or he can chose to ignore the missle and regret it T2/T3 when your 3 MANz are chewing on his units. 3 MANz while not likely to wipe anything on the turn they charge, will certainly tie a unit up nicely.


Alternately I have enjoyed sticking them with a warphead, 4 man squad, pretty safe from the warpheads hitting himself, nice platform from the trukk (or slogging it in a greentide) to use the beam power and hilariously funny when they Deepstrike Not anything outlandishly competitve, but highly fun

 koooaei wrote:
In most games you got to go forward and not just wait for the opponent to out-shoot and out-maneuvre you. I'm just stating that meganobz are gona make it across the table by turn 5 at best doing literally nothing except for being there the whole game. Sure, it depends on your opponent's lists but i don't see 10 footslogging mnobz working vs any even remotedly ballanced list.

...and yet...it...did work...

Move. move. Charge and pile in plus Consolidate move You're pretty much there and that assumes they have no short range nasty weapons the enemy wants to put to your head. =).

I take two units of three, led by a boss pole megawarboss. I put them in a trukk each, slap on a ram and put them in cover or reserve. Then at first chance I run them flat out through cover or whatever and try to get them as far in as possible.

They are remarkably resilient, not super expensive and forces your opponent to react to them or be squished.

Also having a unit of nob bikers with big chopas an PKs forces opponents to decide which one to attack.

Meanwhile your boyz are slogging across the board with backup from lootas at the rear.

 koooaei wrote:
In most games you got to go forward and not just wait for the opponent to out-shoot and out-maneuvre you. I'm just stating that meganobz are gona make it across the table by turn 5 at best doing literally nothing except for being there the whole game. Sure, it depends on your opponent's lists but i don't see 10 footslogging mnobz working vs any even remotedly ballanced list.

I was just wondering why do you have to move forward? If the mission is grab an objective, you only need to go to that objective. If its purge the alien you can turtle up and make him come to you. Grab the relic mission, set up your orks to gun line it if they move to close and then pounce.

I have never seen ( since 1992 anyways ) an army have to move to win. Termies are SnP and I can't tell you how many times I see them mishap off the board or onto difficult terrain and kill themselves. the times I have seen them use a homing beacon I just charged them with 30boys+nob and they were stuck for 2 turns before dead termies.

The Grot wave is probably the cheapest delivery system in the game, at 3 points per grot its worth losing 20-30 to get the MANZ in a fight.

A lot of players feel they have to JUST kill models to win and that's just a big lie.

You can win the game easily and yet your army be just wrecked. I have won more then a few games with just my Boss left and 2 squad of Choppa's left.

I am sure your meta is not the same as mine. In most of my games I tend to go second so really all I need to do is clear about 14 inches in my 1st turn to charge. TBH even that's too much of a risk so I move the nobz using LoS cover and charge on my second.

I also find warboss on bike to be a HUGE scare tactic. I never get nobs on bikes, just a 10 ork strong with a nob leader and attach boss to it. Sure I lose a couple of regular bikers but when I get in CC wow does the power armour start flying. Then if I play MANZ right they are almost completely ignored.

YMMV of course

Yes. The movement phase is where I win more games than anything. It's why my armies LOOK odd to some people. They don't really think in those terms. But the movement phase is a very very important part of the game and I love that part of the game. Shooting is cool and all, and I have played Tau since day 1 so it's not like I dont get that its a big part of the game. It's just not the ONLY part that can win it for you. Deployment options and timely killing is whats needed.

osirisx69 wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
In most games you got to go forward and not just wait for the opponent to out-shoot and out-maneuvre you. I'm just stating that meganobz are gona make it across the table by turn 5 at best doing literally nothing except for being there the whole game. Sure, it depends on your opponent's lists but i don't see 10 footslogging mnobz working vs any even remotedly ballanced list.

I was just wondering why do you have to move forward? If the mission is grab an objective, you only need to go to that objective. If its purge the alien you can turtle up and make him come to you. Grab the relic mission, set up your orks to gun line it if they move to close and then pounce.

I have never seen ( since 1992 anyways ) an army have to move to win. Termies are SnP and I can't tell you how many times I see them mishap off the board or onto difficult terrain and kill themselves. the times I have seen them use a homing beacon I just charged them with 30boys+nob and they were stuck for 2 turns before dead termies.

The Grot wave is probably the cheapest delivery system in the game, at 3 points per grot its worth losing 20-30 to get the MANZ in a fight.

A lot of players feel they have to JUST kill models to win and that's just a big lie.

You can win the game easily and yet your army be just wrecked. I have won more then a few games with just my Boss left and 2 squad of Choppa's left.

I am sure your meta is not the same as mine. In most of my games I tend to go second so really all I need to do is clear about 14 inches in my 1st turn to charge. TBH even that's too much of a risk so I move the nobz using LoS cover and charge on my second.

I also find warboss on bike to be a HUGE scare tactic. I never get nobs on bikes, just a 10 ork strong with a nob leader and attach boss to it. Sure I lose a couple of regular bikers but when I get in CC wow does the power armour start flying. Then if I play MANZ right they are almost completely ignored.

YMMV of course

Termies ain't snp.

Orkses don't boast outstanding long-ranged shooting. U just need to oppress the enemy to lower his mobility and ruin his plans. Note, i don't mean close combat necessarily - even plain pushing is enough. I gladly sacrafice wave after wave just to delay the enemie's approach and distract him from what's really necessary. And when u're slow - he can plain ignore you till it's too late to make the difference.

I don't get why people say that Mega Nobz are expensive. WS4 S4 T4 W2 A3 with a 2+ and a power klaw for 40 points? Yes please. 5 points for a devastating kombi-skorcha? Yes please. Add a transport and/or a bosspole and they cannot fail to cause mayhem.

Nobody here says they're expensive. They just got limited use and are very dependent on transport. That's just like making deff dreads cost 20 points less - they're still no good in this edition. Not cause of the price but cause of how slow and vulnerable they are.

but my point was they're NOT dependent on transports. theyre dependent on deployment and tactics.

With 6' movement you need 4 turns to cross 24' even if you deploy them straightforward. There must be a special word that discrives how easy it is to avoid footslogging mellee snp models. Better get a truck and flat-out 24' forward for 35-40 pts and hope they don't get pinned with ld7 - at least u're bringing some threat close to the enemy by turn 2.

The only way that MANz are not dependent on transports are if you deploy them on the home objective, behind an Aegis/Skyshield, with an SAG. Other than that, they NEED a transport. Even a Trukk can get them up 25" in one turn so that even if it blows up you have them where they need to be.

 Jancoran wrote:
but my point was they're NOT dependent on transports. theyre dependent on deployment and tactics.

This is correct. Tactics and objectives are the key. If you have 5 manz with 30 grots going 6inch and the other player going 6inches and running 3 then on your second turn move up 6 inches and charge the rest of the 3 inches.. simple tactic and it doesn't waste points on trukks or BW.

Use the grotz to shield the manz and truly destroy any squad...

Correct

I thought flat-out only gives you an additional 6"? Is it because trucks are fast that they can flat out 12"?

Consider, again, that grotz insure that the Meganobz will be the ones doing the charging. So... Awesome.

And with enough gretchin, you can move and run to ensure that the following round, the same thing happens. Think of it like an envelope that surrounds the true spear head. A massive and unimportant envelope. No drop army gets the drop on you. No enemy from the front. You're a big lawn mower.

How does that Gretchin heavy list fare against Telepathy powers? Seems like they'd be pretty easy to scare off the board, no?

I too have been contemplating the MegaNobz, and whether or not to use a Battlewagon or Trukk. But I guess the new Orks Codex isn't too far off, so maybe I should wait to build everything til then...I can always work on my IG in the mean time.

Psychic Scream or whatever is deadly to Gretchin. It's VERY short range so it hardly matters. If the enemy gets that close and clears one layer (of many) the Meganobz eat the Psyker. Obviously the Psyker MIGHT get close enough to the Meganobz (once) but with their erstwhile Leader in the mix, a few wounds will sting, but then, Meganobz, like all units, are not immortal. Things die in 40K and if the enemy has the ballz to get that close and whip out his sorcerer, gets his check off, we dont bounce it and then roll badly, well... Themz the breakz. I lose my 9th and last game as an ork to a failed morale test that took too long to recover from, so as in all things, you're GONNA' lose at some point.

But Im willing to take a 9-1 record doing it as proof enough that it can be done and is fun to do.

Id like to thank every one for chiming in. I have been following this conversation intently.

From my reading it appears that mega nobs loaded into a wagon are very effective, but not as the spear point.

Do you think a truck full of mega nobs is more effective than a pair of trucks loaded full of boys? (I am hoping the answer is no, as I have no urge to paint another 24 boys)

Usually people don't max meganobz. 3 in a truck is pretty much enough. They suffer from low ld and no invul so basically, to negate ld problems you need to either take indep with them or a full squad of them in a wagon which is alwayz an overkill and is countered by many things making them a dead weight of points while a min squad in a truck is just 160 pts and can still be quite threatening if used correctly. From my experience, they're not great but probably work better than truckboyz in 6 ed except for they can't score if you got no warboss. 3-4 meganobz are enough to win almost any close combat except for heavy-on-rending or ap2 mellee guyz. But don't expect them to run around cicking faces left and right - they're more of a threat unit than actually killers cause of how slow they are. If you manage to reach at least something and kill it - consider their work done.

osirisx69 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
but my point was they're NOT dependent on transports. theyre dependent on deployment and tactics.

This is correct. Tactics and objectives are the key. If you have 5 manz with 30 grots going 6inch and the other player going 6inches and running 3 then on your second turn move up 6 inches and charge the rest of the 3 inches.. simple tactic and it doesn't waste points on trukks or BW.

Use the grotz to shield the manz and truly destroy any squad...

You're either counting on playing against people that have never played this game, or people who have a unit that will stomp meganobz then, if you're planning on that scenario ever happening. And the grot screen doesn't work in the way you're describing it to, either. The only useful way to play them (unless camping backfield) is with a transport.

And while we're at it, having them camp is less than optimal, you're letting the opponent deal with them on their terms, rather than yours.

I love using MANZ, it's safe to say I use them 99% of games. But you need to know their weaknesses. They're best used being shot up the field either in a truck or battlewagon, directly at weak enemy units or vehicles. As long as you remember you're a bully and not a deathstar, multicharge whenever you can, especially if you can throw one guy at a vehicle while the rest go for a squad (or two) of average or less cqc capabilities.

AP2 in combat kills them, fast. Especially because it's almost always strength 8 or higher, so instagibs them. If you need to, Charging something like TAC termies is usually a mutually assured destruction scenario, sometimes a termie or two will survive depending on how lucky you/your opponent is, but your MANZ will always die. Against stormshield termies (or other race's equivalents) you'll always lose, hands down.

As said before, it's important to remember that MANz are not deathstars. I've had success putting a few in a truck and parking it behind some terrain about midfield. It gives them a pretty good radius of attack if your enemy decides to advance.

 Awesomesauce wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
but my point was they're NOT dependent on transports. theyre dependent on deployment and tactics.

This is correct. Tactics and objectives are the key. If you have 5 manz with 30 grots going 6inch and the other player going 6inches and running 3 then on your second turn move up 6 inches and charge the rest of the 3 inches.. simple tactic and it doesn't waste points on trukks or BW.

Use the grotz to shield the manz and truly destroy any squad...

You're either counting on playing against people that have never played this game, or people who have a unit that will stomp meganobz then, if you're planning on that scenario ever happening. And the grot screen doesn't work in the way you're describing it to, either. The only useful way to play them (unless camping backfield) is with a transport.

And while we're at it, having them camp is less than optimal, you're letting the opponent deal with them on their terms, rather than yours.

I love using MANZ, it's safe to say I use them 99% of games. But you need to know their weaknesses. They're best used being shot up the field either in a truck or battlewagon, directly at weak enemy units or vehicles. As long as you remember you're a bully and not a deathstar, multicharge whenever you can, especially if you can throw one guy at a vehicle while the rest go for a squad (or two) of average or less cqc capabilities.

AP2 in combat kills them, fast. Especially because it's almost always strength 8 or higher, so instagibs them. If you need to, Charging something like TAC termies is usually a mutually assured destruction scenario, sometimes a termie or two will survive depending on how lucky you/your opponent is, but your MANZ will always die. Against stormshield termies (or other race's equivalents) you'll always lose, hands down.

Lol. Uh. so to recap you'd have to play noobs to win this way right?

Just lol.

My friend. While I am sure you've enjoyed some success or you wouldn't state things in this way (or you are a jerk, but I'll assume not) you might be wise to look at those who SHARE your high level of success and absorb any new information you can. Because while I find what "can't " be done to be RIVETTING... I am pretty interested in what can and has been done also even more.

Ap 2 in melee kills them fast? Yes because theres SO SO SO many of those units that have a ton of AP 2 that would be the target of the Meganobz? Come now. Even if they had it, grinding through that many wounds is work. And it only takes a few power klaws to end the offending unit.

Actually it's math. If you opponent doesn't want to fight footsloggig mega-nobz he doesn't. You will not move any more than 6", so you need four turns to reliable charge something in most deployments, a lot more you deployed first and your opponent refused their flank.

Which in turn means, that in order to have a fight sooner than that, your opponent would have to come your way - unless he's a bad general (let's leave "noob", "jerk" and "idiot" out of this), whatever is coming at them is either a close combat oriented character or monstrous creature. Both plow through mega-nobz like a hot knive through butter and tend to survive the retaliation due to invul saves and/or lots of wounds.

So instead of tearing out each other's throats, explain how do you make sure your ten mega-nobz actually get to where they are supposed to be? Assume an eldar army that's moving away from you while plinking away at your unit with surikens? Against daemons, where a daemon prince or a unit of screamers can run down the entire unit with a little luck (as in, not fudging their dice)? Against tau, where even the Etheral's second grade cousin's roomate's dog has S7 AP2 weapons? A space marine army with bikes that can drive circles around them while taking wounds away on a 2+ with their fancy grav guns?

Personally, I don't see them getting anywhere unless your opponent is actively engaging them with units that are unfit to do so - which is exactly what Awesomesauce is saying. "It works in my games" is not a tactic that anybody can use unless you can tell us exactly how you're fighting this uphill battle, we must assume that your opponent is simply throwing expensive units at them to die for no reason at all.

 Jidmah wrote:

Personally, I don't see them getting anywhere unless your opponent is actively engaging them with units that are unfit to do so - which is exactly what Awesomesauce is saying. "It works in my games" is not a tactic that anybody can use unless you can tell us exactly how you're fighting this uphill battle, we must assume that your opponent is simply throwing expensive units at them to die for no reason at all.

This is the crux of your problem: you're giving the clock no weight in your thinking. And you should. If my opponent chooses to eschew forward movement, I am pretty okay with that. I can flood my side and deny objectives for longer than you can outwait me or outshoot me in your backfield (I mean, with each 40 point Gretchin you kill with a 300 point purifier squad the more you see the clock tick). Time's a burnin.

The clock matters. Those damn meganobz are laughing at the vast majority of weaponry, and though you can try to steal cover saves (and thats a totally legit comment), that only matters with weapons that are AP 2.

Nothing lives forever. 10 Meganobz can die. of course they can. But thats 20 tough wounds to try and get through.

The winning strategy, the one that beat me eventually, involved me failing an LD 9 check as i was about to destroy a bunch of the enemy. Not much of a strategy but it worked. =). I can't argue with success. Who can. he punches three Meganobz in the throat juuuust enough times and I ran. otherwise it was gonna be 6 meganobz and my leader to the face. Coulda been a contendah.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:

explain how do you make sure your ten mega-nobz actually get to where they are supposed to be? Assume an eldar army that's moving away from you while plinking away at your unit with surikens? Against daemons, where a daemon prince or a unit of screamers can run down the entire unit with a little luck (as in, not fudging their dice)? Against tau, where even the Etheral's second grade cousin's roomate's dog has S7 AP2 weapons? A space marine army with bikes that can drive circles around them while taking wounds away on a 2+ with their fancy grav guns?.

So on these particular problems: An eldar army is too vague for me. MOST of the units that can reach me in the early rounds that are shuriken are too short a range. Im not likely to feel them until Im already at midboard and thats pretty late in the game to try and rend 20 2+ wounds. They will have more luck with sheer volume. Eldar can bring sheer volume. So the army AROUND the meganobz has to do something about that. Impossible to say without knowing the army and terrain and especially the mission.

Assuming a 5 objective mission, i suppose the answer would be easy. The Meganobz are scoring units. concentrate all Lootas and artillery on enemy troops. Meganobz can use a central pieces (if Nova terrain) to hide and force enemy movement if they wnt to damage my nobz but it will be limited fire. later I can go take the objectives on that side of the board. Nothing can stop me that late in the game from doing it. So i would take three objectives and conest the rest... or just kill all the enemy troops and make just TWO objectives important... the ones closest to Meganobz. Terrain matters a great deal in these discussions so all I can do is assume NOVA terrain.

Against a Screamer star, its critical that you use the gretchin to take up space so there is nowhere but where you want the star, to go. Spacing them well does this. Now the Screamer star can kill a unit or two of Gretchin, then grind on my ork boyz and as the game comes to a close and it realizes that killing things is doing nothing...nothing... it willl play the position game. what the Meganobz probably would do is kill the Grimoire prince or something else cool like be in reserves, wait to see where the screamer star goes...and be far away from it til the end. Maybe bring 40 Power klaw attacks to bear and see what happens once the Grimoirs prince or farteweaver or whoever dies. I'll take 40 shots to someones jaw at STR 8 almost every day of the week no matter what their save is.

Against Tau (and i am an expert Tau general) the battle is usually won by flooding forward, taking losses and flooding some more while the reserves (I use Kommandos) Lootas (huge range) and zzap guns attempt to fight on ONE side of the LOS blocking terrain and create a funnel through which the Tau must fire and use the Meganobz to attract a LOT of fire on the other side. the rest of the army can pincer them. Here again, use of terrain is key. here again, the Meganobz not being in a vacuum means the Tau are facing an army that unlike many they face, can actually get to them despite losses and make an impact. Even a lowly Gretchin unit can do a wound or two on a Fire Warrior sometimes and the choice between silencing lootas or silencing Nobz means the nobz probably die but the Lootas never do. Focus them on the fire Warriors and keep shooting. The riptide doesn't matter if it has nowhere cool it can land and you keep it in front of you as long as possible. Objectives are the key. So killing isn't. Sacrifice the Meganobz if necessary and win the game.

What if your opponent gets to place the last objective?
Or you have an even amount of objectives and your opponents gets first blood?

In that case the clock is working against you, rather than in your favor.

Why would this change anything? I play with the assumption that I will go second. all my plans are geared towards the worst case scenario. going last means I place the last objective so that wouldn't alter anything for me.

First blood is ASSUMED when you play Gretchen. What can an ork possibly do to stop it? Not much.

That is WHY I said that you must take TWO objectives. That makes secondaries irrelevant.

If you are mybase-your base, then all you need do is contest the enemies anbd keep yours for a minimum guaranteed tie. Line breaking isn't that hard for orks. and for the enemy to fight for line breaker means my Meganobz get to play.

I don't think its a problem. The clock is on the side of the person who includes the clock in their thinking, makes the most use of terrain and who manages their expendables the best.

Uh, whether you place objectives first has absolutely no bearing on whether you get to play first. The player who picks his table half also gets to deploy the first and, in case of uneven amounts of objectives, the last one.

It is perfectly possible for your opponent to place three objectives in his table half and then deploy and shoot first.

Taking two objectives in a game with four objectives makes secondaries very relevant. Most 6th edition codices have an easy way of archiving linebreaker last turn about 24" away from your MANz, and since you are mostly twiddling your thumbs, getting the enemy warlord is also not a given.

If you are mybase-your base, then all you need do is contest the enemies anbd keep yours for a minimum guaranteed tie.

A tie in case you actually manage to contest, your opponent doesn't contest one of your objectives as well, he doesn't have linebreaker and didn't manage to kill your warlord. Also note that your opponent is picking his fights in this scenario, so he is free to assign his counter-unit to your MANz.

I don't think its a problem. The clock is on the side of the person who includes the clock in their thinking, makes the most use of terrain and who manages their expendables the best.

Which boils down to "good players beat bad players". I'm pretty sure that you're a very good general, however that doesn't justify footslogging MANz being a good unit. Judging by your fine-tuned tactics, you could probably win a decent amount of games with lists that plopped out of a random army generator with no thought given to army composition at all.

I really don't see how your tactic benefits from having a huge unit of MANz instead of sinking those points boyz or biker nobz, or shaving a couple of bodies off to get them a transport. They don't lose any of the capabilities you need for your tactics that way.

MANZ need a vehicle. personally i have run a warboss on a bike (attached to a deffkopta) , 1 group of MANZ in a truck as troops, 2 groups of 3 MANZ as elites, and a burner wagon with 15 burnaz and a KFF big mek pretty effectively (in front of trukks till close). 5+ saves on trukks and with thier special rules they tend to stick around or at least get deposited where they weredestroyed safely. always give trukk red paint. mega nobs in cc kill pretty much everything that is not a monstrous creature. monstrous creatures is why i have 2 more wagons with 20 boys in em. tie em up and attrision em down

 G00fySmiley wrote:
MANZ need a vehicle. personally i have run a warboss on a bike (attached to a deffkopta) , 1 group of MANZ in a truck as troops, 2 groups of 3 MANZ as elites, and a burner wagon with 15 burnaz and a KFF big mek pretty effectively (in front of trukks till close). 5+ saves on trukks and with thier special rules they tend to stick around or at least get deposited where they weredestroyed safely. always give trukk red paint. mega nobs in cc kill pretty much everything that is not a monstrous creature. monstrous creatures is why i have 2 more wagons with 20 boys in em. tie em up and attrision em down

Nothing needs a vehicle. Orks have been footslogging for 3 editions and have been fine. Mathematically as long as you use LoS terrain effectively you can get 7-8 Manz in to HtH on the 2nd turn. 2+ armour + FnP + 2 wounds equals easy Kruppin

osirisx69 wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
MANZ need a vehicle. personally i have run a warboss on a bike (attached to a deffkopta) , 1 group of MANZ in a truck as troops, 2 groups of 3 MANZ as elites, and a burner wagon with 15 burnaz and a KFF big mek pretty effectively (in front of trukks till close). 5+ saves on trukks and with thier special rules they tend to stick around or at least get deposited where they weredestroyed safely. always give trukk red paint. mega nobs in cc kill pretty much everything that is not a monstrous creature. monstrous creatures is why i have 2 more wagons with 20 boys in em. tie em up and attrision em down

Nothing needs a vehicle. Orks have been footslogging for 3 editions and have been fine. Mathematically as long as you use LoS terrain effectively you can get 7-8 Manz in to HtH on the 2nd turn. 2+ armour + FnP + 2 wounds equals easy Kruppin

For a slow and purposeful unit you sort of do. unless you are using them defensively. average move of 4", no run, good luck with that. you will just be kited by most players as they stay 18 inches away shooting you to bits. and outpacing you. not put em as troops and camping an objective in ruins where they can go to ground and you have something... thoguh something Gretchen do better for cheaper

osirisx69 wrote:


Nothing needs a vehicle. Orks have been footslogging for 3 editions and have been fine. Mathematically as long as you use LoS terrain effectively you can get 7-8 Manz in to HtH on the 2nd turn. 2+ armour + FnP + 2 wounds equals easy Kruppin

This assumption is pretty much wrong in 6 edition. Footslogging horde is a weak option right now.
HTH on 2-d turn? Generally you get in mellee with wagonboyz only on turn 3 if the enemy doesn't want you to get engaged in cc asap or doesn't make stupid mistakes pushing someone forward. Enemy's not stationary. If he doesn't want to get engaged - he can fall back a bit and still shoot you to pieces. Or place a bauble-wrap against useful units. How are you getting MaZ that move 6' in combat by turn 2 with the opponent that doesn't want to fight them in mellee? And those who do usually destroy manz hands down. It's easy to hit manz on the flank so that you kill the closest models and lower their fighting effeciency with 3' pile in.

yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

So what. I've run a list with dark apostle, 75 cultists and 20 possessed that managed to beat tau with commander, riptide, crysis suits, kroots and tetras. This experience doesn't make possessed a viable option on the whole.

How are 10 meganobz better on foot than 7-8 meganobz in a battlewagon? That's the point.

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

You have one instance of it working. We have many more instances of it not working at all. The conclusion to draw isn't that you're that much better than everyone else.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

You have one instance of it working. We have many more instances of it not working at all. The conclusion to draw isn't that you're that much better than everyone else.

No, again I have played since 2nd edition and in 6th edition footslogging is just fine. It is PROVEN over and over again. When you are facing 200+ models MOST armies cannot bring enough fire power to stop it. Why do you insist on arguing? We can play by Vassel if you want. Its easy. Just prove you have the ACTUAL models and we can fight. Vassel has the tendency for power hungry 9 year olds to field nothing but cheese so a common practice is to show your army with a Skype or picture.

I have never understood the need for people to lie or mislead to bring others down. Its like a crab mentality or something.

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

I've killed deep striking CSM terminators once with my backfield grot's grot blastas before, does this one instance therefore make them a consistently viable anti-terminator unit? Just because it's worked well once for you doesn't mean that you can automatically infer that your setup is as awesome and great as you claim it is, especially since from what we can tell you haven't exactly used it against the best or more experienced of opponents.

Also the fact that you're unwilling to rebuttal against Jidmah and everyone else's very good counter-points by just falling back to your "well it worked for me so you guys are just ignorant" argument doesn't look very good for your position.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

osirisx69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

You have one instance of it working. We have many more instances of it not working at all. The conclusion to draw isn't that you're that much better than everyone else.

No, again I have played since 2nd edition and in 6th edition footslogging is just fine. It is PROVEN over and over again. When you are facing 200+ models MOST armies cannot bring enough fire power to stop it. Why do you insist on arguing? We can play by Vassel if you want. Its easy. Just prove you have the ACTUAL models and we can fight. Vassel has the tendency for power hungry 9 year olds to field nothing but cheese so a common practice is to show your army with a Skype or picture.

I have never understood the need for people to lie or mislead to bring others down. Its like a crab mentality or something.

Why is it that he would have to show that he has actual models and not you? Show us your 200+ models that have worked so well for you, the burden of proof is on your end given that if you look at the vast majority of tournament/competitive builds they are all either based on speedy troops (i.e. bikes for SM or Eldar) or in transports like Wave Serpents or Chimeras. There is little to no indication that mass footslogging is the way to go, otherwise Tyranid lists would just run Hormagaunts and Termagants by their lonesome rather than the dual dakka-flyrant + Nidzilla builds. I can ALSO tell you from experience that footslogging is very hard to manage if you have proper terrain as it can funnel your unwieldy hordes into death lanes which you're forced into due to the sheer amount of bodies on the board. What does get to your opponent's side will be severely depleted enough that your threat as a unit is significantly diminished.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

I've killed deep striking CSM terminators once with my backfield grot's grot blastas before, does this one instance therefore make them a consistently viable anti-terminator unit? Just because it's worked well once for you doesn't mean that you can automatically infer that your setup is as awesome and great as you claim it is, especially since from what we can tell you haven't exactly used it against the best or more experienced of opponents.

Also the fact that you're unwilling to rebuttal against Jidmah and everyone else's very good counter-points by just falling back to your "well it worked for me so you guys are just ignorant" argument doesn't look very good for your position.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

osirisx69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

You have one instance of it working. We have many more instances of it not working at all. The conclusion to draw isn't that you're that much better than everyone else.

No, again I have played since 2nd edition and in 6th edition footslogging is just fine. It is PROVEN over and over again. When you are facing 200+ models MOST armies cannot bring enough fire power to stop it. Why do you insist on arguing? We can play by Vassel if you want. Its easy. Just prove you have the ACTUAL models and we can fight. Vassel has the tendency for power hungry 9 year olds to field nothing but cheese so a common practice is to show your army with a Skype or picture.

I have never understood the need for people to lie or mislead to bring others down. Its like a crab mentality or something.

Why is it that he would have to show that he has actual models and not you? Show us your 200+ models that have worked so well for you, the burden of proof is on your end given that if you look at the vast majority of tournament/competitive builds they are all either based on speedy troops (i.e. bikes for SM or Eldar) or in transports like Wave Serpents or Chimeras. There is little to no indication that mass footslogging is the way to go, otherwise Tyranid lists would just run Hormagaunts and Termagants by their lonesome rather than the dual dakka-flyrant + Nidzilla builds. I can ALSO tell you from experience that footslogging is very hard to manage if you have proper terrain as it can funnel your unwieldy hordes into death lanes which you're forced into due to the sheer amount of bodies on the board. What does get to your opponent's side will be severely depleted enough that your threat as a unit is significantly diminished.

what forum are you on? This is not YMTC. There is no burden or proof needed. This is tactics forum and how you play. So stop being asinine and understand for a lot of us ork players footslogging works in our meta. And yes I HAVE shown my models when I play over vassel that's why I said SKYPE!!!!!!!!!!! you krod. The OP asked if MegaNobz are worth it and the answer is YES YES YES. Even IF you cant afford to buy a BW having MegaNobz in your army is worth it.

osirisx69 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

I've killed deep striking CSM terminators once with my backfield grot's grot blastas before, does this one instance therefore make them a consistently viable anti-terminator unit? Just because it's worked well once for you doesn't mean that you can automatically infer that your setup is as awesome and great as you claim it is, especially since from what we can tell you haven't exactly used it against the best or more experienced of opponents.

Also the fact that you're unwilling to rebuttal against Jidmah and everyone else's very good counter-points by just falling back to your "well it worked for me so you guys are just ignorant" argument doesn't look very good for your position.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

osirisx69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

You have one instance of it working. We have many more instances of it not working at all. The conclusion to draw isn't that you're that much better than everyone else.

No, again I have played since 2nd edition and in 6th edition footslogging is just fine. It is PROVEN over and over again. When you are facing 200+ models MOST armies cannot bring enough fire power to stop it. Why do you insist on arguing? We can play by Vassel if you want. Its easy. Just prove you have the ACTUAL models and we can fight. Vassel has the tendency for power hungry 9 year olds to field nothing but cheese so a common practice is to show your army with a Skype or picture.

I have never understood the need for people to lie or mislead to bring others down. Its like a crab mentality or something.

Why is it that he would have to show that he has actual models and not you? Show us your 200+ models that have worked so well for you, the burden of proof is on your end given that if you look at the vast majority of tournament/competitive builds they are all either based on speedy troops (i.e. bikes for SM or Eldar) or in transports like Wave Serpents or Chimeras. There is little to no indication that mass footslogging is the way to go, otherwise Tyranid lists would just run Hormagaunts and Termagants by their lonesome rather than the dual dakka-flyrant + Nidzilla builds. I can ALSO tell you from experience that footslogging is very hard to manage if you have proper terrain as it can funnel your unwieldy hordes into death lanes which you're forced into due to the sheer amount of bodies on the board. What does get to your opponent's side will be severely depleted enough that your threat as a unit is significantly diminished.

what forum are you on? This is not YMTC. There is no burden or proof needed. This is tactics forum and how you play. So stop being asinine and understand for a lot of us ork players footslogging works in our meta. And yes I HAVE shown my models when I play over vassel that's why I said SKYPE!!!!!!!!!!! you krod. The OP asked if MegaNobz are worth it and the answer is YES YES YES. Even IF you cant afford to buy a BW having MegaNobz in your army is worth it.

You're the one making a claim, you're the one who has the burden of proof. That's how all arguments work, YMTC or not.

To prove something, you either have to disprove the opposite or prove that's impossible to get a different result. Writing the word caps is not sufficient.

http://www.3plusplus.net/2011/01/fallacies-i-use-it-and-it-works-for-me/

A friend's girlfriend has an army that relies on two units of ten Flash Gits deep-striking via Warpheads, she just rerolls all results but 'ere we go and somehow always ends up with absolutely erasing half the enemy army with AP1 shots and Captain Badruk comically exploding due to tripple "Get's hot!", despite his gold toof armor and ammo runts.
I don't think we need to discuss the viability of that army despite her impressive win-loss record.

Oh, and all her clan's armor is pink, her flash gits are wearing bowler hats (also pink) and the deff rolla on her battlewagon is coated in glitter.

osirisx69 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

I've killed deep striking CSM terminators once with my backfield grot's grot blastas before, does this one instance therefore make them a consistently viable anti-terminator unit? Just because it's worked well once for you doesn't mean that you can automatically infer that your setup is as awesome and great as you claim it is, especially since from what we can tell you haven't exactly used it against the best or more experienced of opponents.

Also the fact that you're unwilling to rebuttal against Jidmah and everyone else's very good counter-points by just falling back to your "well it worked for me so you guys are just ignorant" argument doesn't look very good for your position.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

osirisx69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

You have one instance of it working. We have many more instances of it not working at all. The conclusion to draw isn't that you're that much better than everyone else.

No, again I have played since 2nd edition and in 6th edition footslogging is just fine. It is PROVEN over and over again. When you are facing 200+ models MOST armies cannot bring enough fire power to stop it. Why do you insist on arguing? We can play by Vassel if you want. Its easy. Just prove you have the ACTUAL models and we can fight. Vassel has the tendency for power hungry 9 year olds to field nothing but cheese so a common practice is to show your army with a Skype or picture.

I have never understood the need for people to lie or mislead to bring others down. Its like a crab mentality or something.

Why is it that he would have to show that he has actual models and not you? Show us your 200+ models that have worked so well for you, the burden of proof is on your end given that if you look at the vast majority of tournament/competitive builds they are all either based on speedy troops (i.e. bikes for SM or Eldar) or in transports like Wave Serpents or Chimeras. There is little to no indication that mass footslogging is the way to go, otherwise Tyranid lists would just run Hormagaunts and Termagants by their lonesome rather than the dual dakka-flyrant + Nidzilla builds. I can ALSO tell you from experience that footslogging is very hard to manage if you have proper terrain as it can funnel your unwieldy hordes into death lanes which you're forced into due to the sheer amount of bodies on the board. What does get to your opponent's side will be severely depleted enough that your threat as a unit is significantly diminished.

what forum are you on? This is not YMTC. There is no burden or proof needed. This is tactics forum and how you play. So stop being asinine and understand for a lot of us ork players footslogging works in our meta. And yes I HAVE shown my models when I play over vassel that's why I said SKYPE!!!!!!!!!!! you krod. The OP asked if MegaNobz are worth it and the answer is YES YES YES. Even IF you cant afford to buy a BW having MegaNobz in your army is worth it.

Didn't you just contradict yourself? You just asked AlmightyWalrus to prove to you he has actual models so you can supposedly prove him wrong in a fight...So even by your logic proof is indeed needed. Especially in a tactics forum where the basis of said tactics is either based upon mathematical proof or from competitive meta. Also being an Ork player myself I am disappointed to see another Ork player being so adamant and childish in this tantrum-like behaviour, we're supposed to be a fun-loving and carefree folk, so what if our stuff is not that competitive? Footslogging armies is not a crime in of itself but to tell others that is on par with the mechanized/speedy meta of today is wrong and is just setting up people for disappointment.

Agree, osirisx69 might as well have asked to settle the issue in a Call of Duty match.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

I've killed deep striking CSM terminators once with my backfield grot's grot blastas before, does this one instance therefore make them a consistently viable anti-terminator unit? Just because it's worked well once for you doesn't mean that you can automatically infer that your setup is as awesome and great as you claim it is, especially since from what we can tell you haven't exactly used it against the best or more experienced of opponents.

Also the fact that you're unwilling to rebuttal against Jidmah and everyone else's very good counter-points by just falling back to your "well it worked for me so you guys are just ignorant" argument doesn't look very good for your position.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

osirisx69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

You have one instance of it working. We have many more instances of it not working at all. The conclusion to draw isn't that you're that much better than everyone else.

No, again I have played since 2nd edition and in 6th edition footslogging is just fine. It is PROVEN over and over again. When you are facing 200+ models MOST armies cannot bring enough fire power to stop it. Why do you insist on arguing? We can play by Vassel if you want. Its easy. Just prove you have the ACTUAL models and we can fight. Vassel has the tendency for power hungry 9 year olds to field nothing but cheese so a common practice is to show your army with a Skype or picture.

I have never understood the need for people to lie or mislead to bring others down. Its like a crab mentality or something.

Why is it that he would have to show that he has actual models and not you? Show us your 200+ models that have worked so well for you, the burden of proof is on your end given that if you look at the vast majority of tournament/competitive builds they are all either based on speedy troops (i.e. bikes for SM or Eldar) or in transports like Wave Serpents or Chimeras. There is little to no indication that mass footslogging is the way to go, otherwise Tyranid lists would just run Hormagaunts and Termagants by their lonesome rather than the dual dakka-flyrant + Nidzilla builds. I can ALSO tell you from experience that footslogging is very hard to manage if you have proper terrain as it can funnel your unwieldy hordes into death lanes which you're forced into due to the sheer amount of bodies on the board. What does get to your opponent's side will be severely depleted enough that your threat as a unit is significantly diminished.

what forum are you on? This is not YMTC. There is no burden or proof needed. This is tactics forum and how you play. So stop being asinine and understand for a lot of us ork players footslogging works in our meta. And yes I HAVE shown my models when I play over vassel that's why I said SKYPE!!!!!!!!!!! you krod. The OP asked if MegaNobz are worth it and the answer is YES YES YES. Even IF you cant afford to buy a BW having MegaNobz in your army is worth it.

You're the one making a claim, you're the one who has the burden of proof. That's how all arguments work, YMTC or not.

Its not an argument, its YMMV opinion, or a HYWPI opinion.

That's where you have been mistaken. You are having an argument with yourself.

osirisx69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

I've killed deep striking CSM terminators once with my backfield grot's grot blastas before, does this one instance therefore make them a consistently viable anti-terminator unit? Just because it's worked well once for you doesn't mean that you can automatically infer that your setup is as awesome and great as you claim it is, especially since from what we can tell you haven't exactly used it against the best or more experienced of opponents.

Also the fact that you're unwilling to rebuttal against Jidmah and everyone else's very good counter-points by just falling back to your "well it worked for me so you guys are just ignorant" argument doesn't look very good for your position.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

osirisx69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

You have one instance of it working. We have many more instances of it not working at all. The conclusion to draw isn't that you're that much better than everyone else.

No, again I have played since 2nd edition and in 6th edition footslogging is just fine. It is PROVEN over and over again. When you are facing 200+ models MOST armies cannot bring enough fire power to stop it. Why do you insist on arguing? We can play by Vassel if you want. Its easy. Just prove you have the ACTUAL models and we can fight. Vassel has the tendency for power hungry 9 year olds to field nothing but cheese so a common practice is to show your army with a Skype or picture.

I have never understood the need for people to lie or mislead to bring others down. Its like a crab mentality or something.

Why is it that he would have to show that he has actual models and not you? Show us your 200+ models that have worked so well for you, the burden of proof is on your end given that if you look at the vast majority of tournament/competitive builds they are all either based on speedy troops (i.e. bikes for SM or Eldar) or in transports like Wave Serpents or Chimeras. There is little to no indication that mass footslogging is the way to go, otherwise Tyranid lists would just run Hormagaunts and Termagants by their lonesome rather than the dual dakka-flyrant + Nidzilla builds. I can ALSO tell you from experience that footslogging is very hard to manage if you have proper terrain as it can funnel your unwieldy hordes into death lanes which you're forced into due to the sheer amount of bodies on the board. What does get to your opponent's side will be severely depleted enough that your threat as a unit is significantly diminished.

what forum are you on? This is not YMTC. There is no burden or proof needed. This is tactics forum and how you play. So stop being asinine and understand for a lot of us ork players footslogging works in our meta. And yes I HAVE shown my models when I play over vassel that's why I said SKYPE!!!!!!!!!!! you krod. The OP asked if MegaNobz are worth it and the answer is YES YES YES. Even IF you cant afford to buy a BW having MegaNobz in your army is worth it.

You're the one making a claim, you're the one who has the burden of proof. That's how all arguments work, YMTC or not.

Its not an argument, its YMMV opinion, or a HYWPI opinion.

That's where you have been mistaken. You are having an argument with yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument

I suggest you read it, because you're arguing that it's proven, while I'm arguing that it isn't.

osirisx69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

I've killed deep striking CSM terminators once with my backfield grot's grot blastas before, does this one instance therefore make them a consistently viable anti-terminator unit? Just because it's worked well once for you doesn't mean that you can automatically infer that your setup is as awesome and great as you claim it is, especially since from what we can tell you haven't exactly used it against the best or more experienced of opponents.

Also the fact that you're unwilling to rebuttal against Jidmah and everyone else's very good counter-points by just falling back to your "well it worked for me so you guys are just ignorant" argument doesn't look very good for your position.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

osirisx69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

You have one instance of it working. We have many more instances of it not working at all. The conclusion to draw isn't that you're that much better than everyone else.

No, again I have played since 2nd edition and in 6th edition footslogging is just fine. It is PROVEN over and over again. When you are facing 200+ models MOST armies cannot bring enough fire power to stop it. Why do you insist on arguing? We can play by Vassel if you want. Its easy. Just prove you have the ACTUAL models and we can fight. Vassel has the tendency for power hungry 9 year olds to field nothing but cheese so a common practice is to show your army with a Skype or picture.

I have never understood the need for people to lie or mislead to bring others down. Its like a crab mentality or something.

Why is it that he would have to show that he has actual models and not you? Show us your 200+ models that have worked so well for you, the burden of proof is on your end given that if you look at the vast majority of tournament/competitive builds they are all either based on speedy troops (i.e. bikes for SM or Eldar) or in transports like Wave Serpents or Chimeras. There is little to no indication that mass footslogging is the way to go, otherwise Tyranid lists would just run Hormagaunts and Termagants by their lonesome rather than the dual dakka-flyrant + Nidzilla builds. I can ALSO tell you from experience that footslogging is very hard to manage if you have proper terrain as it can funnel your unwieldy hordes into death lanes which you're forced into due to the sheer amount of bodies on the board. What does get to your opponent's side will be severely depleted enough that your threat as a unit is significantly diminished.

what forum are you on? This is not YMTC. There is no burden or proof needed. This is tactics forum and how you play. So stop being asinine and understand for a lot of us ork players footslogging works in our meta. And yes I HAVE shown my models when I play over vassel that's why I said SKYPE!!!!!!!!!!! you krod. The OP asked if MegaNobz are worth it and the answer is YES YES YES. Even IF you cant afford to buy a BW having MegaNobz in your army is worth it.

You're the one making a claim, you're the one who has the burden of proof. That's how all arguments work, YMTC or not.

Its not an argument, its YMMV opinion, or a HYWPI opinion.

That's where you have been mistaken. You are having an argument with yourself.

You do realize arguments and opinions are not mutually exclusive right? You can argue that one's opinion is wrong, which in this case yours arguably is. You've done nothing to support your opinion, then why should we believe your statements as true or factual?

Again not countering our points directly and effectively stating that you're right because you say so is not going to convince anyone, especially with your very rude behaviour.

 Grimskul wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

I've killed deep striking CSM terminators once with my backfield grot's grot blastas before, does this one instance therefore make them a consistently viable anti-terminator unit? Just because it's worked well once for you doesn't mean that you can automatically infer that your setup is as awesome and great as you claim it is, especially since from what we can tell you haven't exactly used it against the best or more experienced of opponents.

Also the fact that you're unwilling to rebuttal against Jidmah and everyone else's very good counter-points by just falling back to your "well it worked for me so you guys are just ignorant" argument doesn't look very good for your position.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

osirisx69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

You have one instance of it working. We have many more instances of it not working at all. The conclusion to draw isn't that you're that much better than everyone else.

No, again I have played since 2nd edition and in 6th edition footslogging is just fine. It is PROVEN over and over again. When you are facing 200+ models MOST armies cannot bring enough fire power to stop it. Why do you insist on arguing? We can play by Vassel if you want. Its easy. Just prove you have the ACTUAL models and we can fight. Vassel has the tendency for power hungry 9 year olds to field nothing but cheese so a common practice is to show your army with a Skype or picture.

I have never understood the need for people to lie or mislead to bring others down. Its like a crab mentality or something.

Why is it that he would have to show that he has actual models and not you? Show us your 200+ models that have worked so well for you, the burden of proof is on your end given that if you look at the vast majority of tournament/competitive builds they are all either based on speedy troops (i.e. bikes for SM or Eldar) or in transports like Wave Serpents or Chimeras. There is little to no indication that mass footslogging is the way to go, otherwise Tyranid lists would just run Hormagaunts and Termagants by their lonesome rather than the dual dakka-flyrant + Nidzilla builds. I can ALSO tell you from experience that footslogging is very hard to manage if you have proper terrain as it can funnel your unwieldy hordes into death lanes which you're forced into due to the sheer amount of bodies on the board. What does get to your opponent's side will be severely depleted enough that your threat as a unit is significantly diminished.

what forum are you on? This is not YMTC. There is no burden or proof needed. This is tactics forum and how you play. So stop being asinine and understand for a lot of us ork players footslogging works in our meta. And yes I HAVE shown my models when I play over vassel that's why I said SKYPE!!!!!!!!!!! you krod. The OP asked if MegaNobz are worth it and the answer is YES YES YES. Even IF you cant afford to buy a BW having MegaNobz in your army is worth it.

You're the one making a claim, you're the one who has the burden of proof. That's how all arguments work, YMTC or not.

Its not an argument, its YMMV opinion, or a HYWPI opinion.

That's where you have been mistaken. You are having an argument with yourself.

You do realize arguments and opinions are not mutually exclusive right? You can argue that one's opinion is wrong, which in this case yours arguably is. You've done nothing to support your opinion, then why should we believe your statements as true or factual?

Again not countering our points directly and effectively stating that you're right because you say so is not going to convince anyone, especially with your very rude behaviour.

The only rude one is the people stating an opinion is wrong. I have proven my point in MY meta games. That's it nothing more. I asked to PROVE his army by Skype (wow I am sure I typed something to that effect, wait let me re-read my own post YEP that's what I typed) which if anyone didn't know Skye is a 2!!!!!!!!!! way conference so we would BOTH prove our list that way we don't mislead the other players in thinking they have the models when they don't. Its a simple function I am sure you can figure it out.

osirisx69 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

I've killed deep striking CSM terminators once with my backfield grot's grot blastas before, does this one instance therefore make them a consistently viable anti-terminator unit? Just because it's worked well once for you doesn't mean that you can automatically infer that your setup is as awesome and great as you claim it is, especially since from what we can tell you haven't exactly used it against the best or more experienced of opponents.

Also the fact that you're unwilling to rebuttal against Jidmah and everyone else's very good counter-points by just falling back to your "well it worked for me so you guys are just ignorant" argument doesn't look very good for your position.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

osirisx69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

You have one instance of it working. We have many more instances of it not working at all. The conclusion to draw isn't that you're that much better than everyone else.

No, again I have played since 2nd edition and in 6th edition footslogging is just fine. It is PROVEN over and over again. When you are facing 200+ models MOST armies cannot bring enough fire power to stop it. Why do you insist on arguing? We can play by Vassel if you want. Its easy. Just prove you have the ACTUAL models and we can fight. Vassel has the tendency for power hungry 9 year olds to field nothing but cheese so a common practice is to show your army with a Skype or picture.

I have never understood the need for people to lie or mislead to bring others down. Its like a crab mentality or something.

Why is it that he would have to show that he has actual models and not you? Show us your 200+ models that have worked so well for you, the burden of proof is on your end given that if you look at the vast majority of tournament/competitive builds they are all either based on speedy troops (i.e. bikes for SM or Eldar) or in transports like Wave Serpents or Chimeras. There is little to no indication that mass footslogging is the way to go, otherwise Tyranid lists would just run Hormagaunts and Termagants by their lonesome rather than the dual dakka-flyrant + Nidzilla builds. I can ALSO tell you from experience that footslogging is very hard to manage if you have proper terrain as it can funnel your unwieldy hordes into death lanes which you're forced into due to the sheer amount of bodies on the board. What does get to your opponent's side will be severely depleted enough that your threat as a unit is significantly diminished.

what forum are you on? This is not YMTC. There is no burden or proof needed. This is tactics forum and how you play. So stop being asinine and understand for a lot of us ork players footslogging works in our meta. And yes I HAVE shown my models when I play over vassel that's why I said SKYPE!!!!!!!!!!! you krod. The OP asked if MegaNobz are worth it and the answer is YES YES YES. Even IF you cant afford to buy a BW having MegaNobz in your army is worth it.

You're the one making a claim, you're the one who has the burden of proof. That's how all arguments work, YMTC or not.

Its not an argument, its YMMV opinion, or a HYWPI opinion.

That's where you have been mistaken. You are having an argument with yourself.

You do realize arguments and opinions are not mutually exclusive right? You can argue that one's opinion is wrong, which in this case yours arguably is. You've done nothing to support your opinion, then why should we believe your statements as true or factual?

Again not countering our points directly and effectively stating that you're right because you say so is not going to convince anyone, especially with your very rude behaviour.

The only rude one is the people stating an opinion is wrong. I have proven my point in MY meta games. That's it nothing more. I asked to PROVE his army by Skype (wow I am sure I typed something to that effect, wait let me re-read my own post YEP that's what I typed) which if anyone didn't know Skye is a 2!!!!!!!!!! way conference so we would BOTH prove our list that way we don't mislead the other players in thinking they have the models when they don't. Its a simple function I am sure you can figure it out.

So you admit that there is need for proof after all then. As well as that there is an argument involving us against you going on. No offense but you are going all over the place changing goalposts of whatever you are stating and the reason why I said you were rude is because in that comment about Skype you called me a "krod" and "asinine" even though I was just pointing out a legitimate fallacy in your "logic". You having to pull an ad hominem against me is just signs of you lacking evidence to back your claim as you still can't refute the points we have made. You're still going on saying "it worked when I did it therefore it is true" which Jidmah has already pointed out with his link does not make a valid comeback.

 Grimskul wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

I've killed deep striking CSM terminators once with my backfield grot's grot blastas before, does this one instance therefore make them a consistently viable anti-terminator unit? Just because it's worked well once for you doesn't mean that you can automatically infer that your setup is as awesome and great as you claim it is, especially since from what we can tell you haven't exactly used it against the best or more experienced of opponents.

Also the fact that you're unwilling to rebuttal against Jidmah and everyone else's very good counter-points by just falling back to your "well it worked for me so you guys are just ignorant" argument doesn't look very good for your position.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

osirisx69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

You have one instance of it working. We have many more instances of it not working at all. The conclusion to draw isn't that you're that much better than everyone else.

No, again I have played since 2nd edition and in 6th edition footslogging is just fine. It is PROVEN over and over again. When you are facing 200+ models MOST armies cannot bring enough fire power to stop it. Why do you insist on arguing? We can play by Vassel if you want. Its easy. Just prove you have the ACTUAL models and we can fight. Vassel has the tendency for power hungry 9 year olds to field nothing but cheese so a common practice is to show your army with a Skype or picture.

I have never understood the need for people to lie or mislead to bring others down. Its like a crab mentality or something.

Why is it that he would have to show that he has actual models and not you? Show us your 200+ models that have worked so well for you, the burden of proof is on your end given that if you look at the vast majority of tournament/competitive builds they are all either based on speedy troops (i.e. bikes for SM or Eldar) or in transports like Wave Serpents or Chimeras. There is little to no indication that mass footslogging is the way to go, otherwise Tyranid lists would just run Hormagaunts and Termagants by their lonesome rather than the dual dakka-flyrant + Nidzilla builds. I can ALSO tell you from experience that footslogging is very hard to manage if you have proper terrain as it can funnel your unwieldy hordes into death lanes which you're forced into due to the sheer amount of bodies on the board. What does get to your opponent's side will be severely depleted enough that your threat as a unit is significantly diminished.

what forum are you on? This is not YMTC. There is no burden or proof needed. This is tactics forum and how you play. So stop being asinine and understand for a lot of us ork players footslogging works in our meta. And yes I HAVE shown my models when I play over vassel that's why I said SKYPE!!!!!!!!!!! you krod. The OP asked if MegaNobz are worth it and the answer is YES YES YES. Even IF you cant afford to buy a BW having MegaNobz in your army is worth it.

You're the one making a claim, you're the one who has the burden of proof. That's how all arguments work, YMTC or not.

Its not an argument, its YMMV opinion, or a HYWPI opinion.

That's where you have been mistaken. You are having an argument with yourself.

You do realize arguments and opinions are not mutually exclusive right? You can argue that one's opinion is wrong, which in this case yours arguably is. You've done nothing to support your opinion, then why should we believe your statements as true or factual?

Again not countering our points directly and effectively stating that you're right because you say so is not going to convince anyone, especially with your very rude behaviour.

The only rude one is the people stating an opinion is wrong. I have proven my point in MY meta games. That's it nothing more. I asked to PROVE his army by Skype (wow I am sure I typed something to that effect, wait let me re-read my own post YEP that's what I typed) which if anyone didn't know Skye is a 2!!!!!!!!!! way conference so we would BOTH prove our list that way we don't mislead the other players in thinking they have the models when they don't. Its a simple function I am sure you can figure it out.

So you admit that there is need for proof after all then. As well as that there is an argument involving us against you going on. No offense but you are going all over the place changing goalposts of whatever you are stating and the reason why I said you were rude is because in that comment about Skype you called me a "krod" and "asinine" even though I was just pointing out a legitimate fallacy in your "logic". You having to pull an ad hominem against me is just signs of you lacking evidence to back your claim as you still can't refute the points we have made. You're still going on saying "it worked when I did it therefore it is true" which Jidmah has already pointed out with his link does not make a valid comeback.

LMAO no goal post moved. My original statement is true. MegaNobz are worth it. How hard is that for you to understand? I have all the evidence I need in the games I have played. Why are you so threatened? Why must you insist you logic is correct in MY games when clearly its not and you have no proof. Why must you still state opinions as facts? I have GREAT success with orks and will always have great success. Why is that so bad for you?

osirisx69 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

I've killed deep striking CSM terminators once with my backfield grot's grot blastas before, does this one instance therefore make them a consistently viable anti-terminator unit? Just because it's worked well once for you doesn't mean that you can automatically infer that your setup is as awesome and great as you claim it is, especially since from what we can tell you haven't exactly used it against the best or more experienced of opponents.

Also the fact that you're unwilling to rebuttal against Jidmah and everyone else's very good counter-points by just falling back to your "well it worked for me so you guys are just ignorant" argument doesn't look very good for your position.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

osirisx69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

You have one instance of it working. We have many more instances of it not working at all. The conclusion to draw isn't that you're that much better than everyone else.

No, again I have played since 2nd edition and in 6th edition footslogging is just fine. It is PROVEN over and over again. When you are facing 200+ models MOST armies cannot bring enough fire power to stop it. Why do you insist on arguing? We can play by Vassel if you want. Its easy. Just prove you have the ACTUAL models and we can fight. Vassel has the tendency for power hungry 9 year olds to field nothing but cheese so a common practice is to show your army with a Skype or picture.

I have never understood the need for people to lie or mislead to bring others down. Its like a crab mentality or something.

Why is it that he would have to show that he has actual models and not you? Show us your 200+ models that have worked so well for you, the burden of proof is on your end given that if you look at the vast majority of tournament/competitive builds they are all either based on speedy troops (i.e. bikes for SM or Eldar) or in transports like Wave Serpents or Chimeras. There is little to no indication that mass footslogging is the way to go, otherwise Tyranid lists would just run Hormagaunts and Termagants by their lonesome rather than the dual dakka-flyrant + Nidzilla builds. I can ALSO tell you from experience that footslogging is very hard to manage if you have proper terrain as it can funnel your unwieldy hordes into death lanes which you're forced into due to the sheer amount of bodies on the board. What does get to your opponent's side will be severely depleted enough that your threat as a unit is significantly diminished.

what forum are you on? This is not YMTC. There is no burden or proof needed. This is tactics forum and how you play. So stop being asinine and understand for a lot of us ork players footslogging works in our meta. And yes I HAVE shown my models when I play over vassel that's why I said SKYPE!!!!!!!!!!! you krod. The OP asked if MegaNobz are worth it and the answer is YES YES YES. Even IF you cant afford to buy a BW having MegaNobz in your army is worth it.

You're the one making a claim, you're the one who has the burden of proof. That's how all arguments work, YMTC or not.

Its not an argument, its YMMV opinion, or a HYWPI opinion.

That's where you have been mistaken. You are having an argument with yourself.

You do realize arguments and opinions are not mutually exclusive right? You can argue that one's opinion is wrong, which in this case yours arguably is. You've done nothing to support your opinion, then why should we believe your statements as true or factual?

Again not countering our points directly and effectively stating that you're right because you say so is not going to convince anyone, especially with your very rude behaviour.

The only rude one is the people stating an opinion is wrong. I have proven my point in MY meta games. That's it nothing more. I asked to PROVE his army by Skype (wow I am sure I typed something to that effect, wait let me re-read my own post YEP that's what I typed) which if anyone didn't know Skye is a 2!!!!!!!!!! way conference so we would BOTH prove our list that way we don't mislead the other players in thinking they have the models when they don't. Its a simple function I am sure you can figure it out.

So you admit that there is need for proof after all then. As well as that there is an argument involving us against you going on. No offense but you are going all over the place changing goalposts of whatever you are stating and the reason why I said you were rude is because in that comment about Skype you called me a "krod" and "asinine" even though I was just pointing out a legitimate fallacy in your "logic". You having to pull an ad hominem against me is just signs of you lacking evidence to back your claim as you still can't refute the points we have made. You're still going on saying "it worked when I did it therefore it is true" which Jidmah has already pointed out with his link does not make a valid comeback.

LMAO no goal post moved. My original statement is true. MegaNobz are worth it. How hard is that for you to understand? I have all the evidence I need in the games I have played. Why are you so threatened? Why must you insist you logic is correct in MY games when clearly its not and you have no proof. Why must you still state opinions as facts? I have GREAT success with orks and will always have great success. Why is that so bad for you?

Ironic, because you just moved the goalpost...again. We never argued that taking Meganobz wasn't worth it. Merely that taking it as a full or close to full-sized (or even minimum sized) unit without a battlewagon was NOT worth it due to their lack of mobility and priciness.

*sigh* Welp, looks I have to revert to summing up another thread with a beaver, as is customary for us Canadians.

 Grimskul wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

I've killed deep striking CSM terminators once with my backfield grot's grot blastas before, does this one instance therefore make them a consistently viable anti-terminator unit? Just because it's worked well once for you doesn't mean that you can automatically infer that your setup is as awesome and great as you claim it is, especially since from what we can tell you haven't exactly used it against the best or more experienced of opponents.

Also the fact that you're unwilling to rebuttal against Jidmah and everyone else's very good counter-points by just falling back to your "well it worked for me so you guys are just ignorant" argument doesn't look very good for your position.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

osirisx69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

You have one instance of it working. We have many more instances of it not working at all. The conclusion to draw isn't that you're that much better than everyone else.

No, again I have played since 2nd edition and in 6th edition footslogging is just fine. It is PROVEN over and over again. When you are facing 200+ models MOST armies cannot bring enough fire power to stop it. Why do you insist on arguing? We can play by Vassel if you want. Its easy. Just prove you have the ACTUAL models and we can fight. Vassel has the tendency for power hungry 9 year olds to field nothing but cheese so a common practice is to show your army with a Skype or picture.

I have never understood the need for people to lie or mislead to bring others down. Its like a crab mentality or something.

Why is it that he would have to show that he has actual models and not you? Show us your 200+ models that have worked so well for you, the burden of proof is on your end given that if you look at the vast majority of tournament/competitive builds they are all either based on speedy troops (i.e. bikes for SM or Eldar) or in transports like Wave Serpents or Chimeras. There is little to no indication that mass footslogging is the way to go, otherwise Tyranid lists would just run Hormagaunts and Termagants by their lonesome rather than the dual dakka-flyrant + Nidzilla builds. I can ALSO tell you from experience that footslogging is very hard to manage if you have proper terrain as it can funnel your unwieldy hordes into death lanes which you're forced into due to the sheer amount of bodies on the board. What does get to your opponent's side will be severely depleted enough that your threat as a unit is significantly diminished.

what forum are you on? This is not YMTC. There is no burden or proof needed. This is tactics forum and how you play. So stop being asinine and understand for a lot of us ork players footslogging works in our meta. And yes I HAVE shown my models when I play over vassel that's why I said SKYPE!!!!!!!!!!! you krod. The OP asked if MegaNobz are worth it and the answer is YES YES YES. Even IF you cant afford to buy a BW having MegaNobz in your army is worth it.

You're the one making a claim, you're the one who has the burden of proof. That's how all arguments work, YMTC or not.

Its not an argument, its YMMV opinion, or a HYWPI opinion.

That's where you have been mistaken. You are having an argument with yourself.

You do realize arguments and opinions are not mutually exclusive right? You can argue that one's opinion is wrong, which in this case yours arguably is. You've done nothing to support your opinion, then why should we believe your statements as true or factual?

Again not countering our points directly and effectively stating that you're right because you say so is not going to convince anyone, especially with your very rude behaviour.

The only rude one is the people stating an opinion is wrong. I have proven my point in MY meta games. That's it nothing more. I asked to PROVE his army by Skype (wow I am sure I typed something to that effect, wait let me re-read my own post YEP that's what I typed) which if anyone didn't know Skye is a 2!!!!!!!!!! way conference so we would BOTH prove our list that way we don't mislead the other players in thinking they have the models when they don't. Its a simple function I am sure you can figure it out.

So you admit that there is need for proof after all then. As well as that there is an argument involving us against you going on. No offense but you are going all over the place changing goalposts of whatever you are stating and the reason why I said you were rude is because in that comment about Skype you called me a "krod" and "asinine" even though I was just pointing out a legitimate fallacy in your "logic". You having to pull an ad hominem against me is just signs of you lacking evidence to back your claim as you still can't refute the points we have made. You're still going on saying "it worked when I did it therefore it is true" which Jidmah has already pointed out with his link does not make a valid comeback.

LMAO no goal post moved. My original statement is true. MegaNobz are worth it. How hard is that for you to understand? I have all the evidence I need in the games I have played. Why are you so threatened? Why must you insist you logic is correct in MY games when clearly its not and you have no proof. Why must you still state opinions as facts? I have GREAT success with orks and will always have great success. Why is that so bad for you?

Ironic, because you just moved the goalpost...again. We never argued that taking Meganobz wasn't worth it. Merely that taking it as a full or close to full-sized (or even minimum sized) unit without a battlewagon was NOT worth it due to their lack of mobility and priciness.

*sigh* Welp, looks I have to revert to summing up another thread with a beaver, as is customary for us Canadians.

The fact that you can't read that I clearly said IT IS worth it in my meta games shows you are the beaver and are now fully ignored....... Congratz to making the list . For the rest, if you go back and read my post a full squad of meganobz covered by grots is worth taking. The grots can offer cover and by the orks second turn you should be close enough to charge if you have played the game right. I use my BW's for 15 man burnas which offer a HUGE distraction for the manz. YMMV of course.

I have seen Nobz without a BW grind through SpaceMarines on foot so why is there such hate? Whats weird is there is an "argument" about this in tactics forum. Its all opinion anyways, cant we all just get along!?!?

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

Congratulations. It sounds like your doing good with your tactics vs those people you play with. Perhaps you should broaden your playing experience and see how they do against better opponents before you try telling everyone how wrong they are.

Most armies I play against would have not problems wiping that squad, but honestly since they are not a threat until round 4 or later, most would just ignore them.

Fragile wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

Congratulations. It sounds like your doing good with your tactics vs those people you play with. Perhaps you should broaden your playing experience and see how they do against better opponents before you try telling everyone how wrong they are.

Most armies I play against would have not problems wiping that squad, but honestly since they are not a threat until round 4 or later, most would just ignore them.

Okay so this post is the one that confuses me. Why wouldn't they be a threat until turn 4? I understand they have SnP and I know how that works. So if they move 6 inches and then the other army moves 6 inches plus the other army runs then now they are only about 8 inches apart right? Unless you are stating you never move your army?

Yisali wrote:

Fragile wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

Congratulations. It sounds like your doing good with your tactics vs those people you play with. Perhaps you should broaden your playing experience and see how they do against better opponents before you try telling everyone how wrong they are.

Most armies I play against would have not problems wiping that squad, but honestly since they are not a threat until round 4 or later, most would just ignore them.

Okay so this post is the one that confuses me. Why wouldn't they be a threat until turn 4? I understand they have SnP and I know how that works. So if they move 6 inches and then the other army moves 6 inches plus the other army runs then now they are only about 8 inches apart right? Unless you are stating you never move your army?

That's correct. Around ork turn 2 the nobz would be in striking distance. I am not understand why it takes 4 turns either.

osirisx69 wrote:

Yisali wrote:

Fragile wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

Congratulations. It sounds like your doing good with your tactics vs those people you play with. Perhaps you should broaden your playing experience and see how they do against better opponents before you try telling everyone how wrong they are.

Most armies I play against would have not problems wiping that squad, but honestly since they are not a threat until round 4 or later, most would just ignore them.

Okay so this post is the one that confuses me. Why wouldn't they be a threat until turn 4? I understand they have SnP and I know how that works. So if they move 6 inches and then the other army moves 6 inches plus the other army runs then now they are only about 8 inches apart right? Unless you are stating you never move your army?

That's correct. Around ork turn 2 the nobz would be in striking distance. I am not understand why it takes 4 turns either.

Wait, are you assuming that the other army would run straight for the Meganobz? Because if you are, you might want to come back to reality. Of course they're going to murder pretty much anything if you just run straight into them. You don't, though, you back up and shoot them, then move around them because they can't move more than 6" a turn.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

Yisali wrote:

Fragile wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

Congratulations. It sounds like your doing good with your tactics vs those people you play with. Perhaps you should broaden your playing experience and see how they do against better opponents before you try telling everyone how wrong they are.

Most armies I play against would have not problems wiping that squad, but honestly since they are not a threat until round 4 or later, most would just ignore them.

Okay so this post is the one that confuses me. Why wouldn't they be a threat until turn 4? I understand they have SnP and I know how that works. So if they move 6 inches and then the other army moves 6 inches plus the other army runs then now they are only about 8 inches apart right? Unless you are stating you never move your army?

That's correct. Around ork turn 2 the nobz would be in striking distance. I am not understand why it takes 4 turns either.

Wait, are you assuming that the other army would run straight for the Meganobz? Because if you are, you might want to come back to reality. Of course they're going to murder pretty much anything if you just run straight into them. You don't, though, you back up and shoot them, then move around them because they can't move more than 6" a turn.

Nope, I am watching the army move forward to take an objective or get into cover. I have seen players move back and try to shoot and they just end up wasting there shots and never get the primary objectives.

I have never seen an army just sit and not move some forward. I guess you could win that way if you had all the objectives on your own table edge. *shrug*

Yisali wrote:
I have never seen an army just sit and not move some forward. I guess you could win that way if you had all the objectives on your own table edge. *shrug*

There are lots of armies that do not move forward until late game. They do not need to control, simply contest your objectives.

To assume that someone will blindly walk forward into your super unit is really silly. I can easily move forward while flanking that same unit. At the end of round 2, you still cannot charge the enemy if they have not moved from their deployment zone. If you unit is so scary, I am sure that they will be backpedalling to keep you in shooting range while staying out of charge range. Most likely they will simply go around that unit.

I've found in low point games they are some of the nastiest things on the battlefield. You opponent won't much expect to see a battle wagon krammed full of 2+ armor in a 1000 point game. Take a warboss with em and that's half your troops. take 60 points of boyz as filler and you gotz yerself a right nasty army

Folks, this is getting needlessly complicated. There are generals here who can teach you how to make it work. HERE. NOW.

So those who WANT to learn (which includes the Original Poster), read from those who know how and ignore the defeatists.

Defeatists: Stop trying to claim "theory" on things that have had many successful results. If an ork NOOB like me can make it work with the hodge podge of models my friend could locate in his 2E collection, then the ork veterans who play it normally damn well can teach you how to do it. As can I.

My posts have good suggestions on how. Other people have posted some wisdom on how. Learn from them if you don't choose to learn from me.

 Jancoran wrote:


My posts have good suggestions on how. Other people have posted some wisdom on how. Learn from them if you don't choose to learn from me.

The thing is, your advice just doesn't hold up.

Examples:

A Command Squad on bikes with grav-guns (fairly common unit, manouverable enough to get into range easily) shoots your Meganobz. 15 shots, 10 hits, 8.333... wounds, 5.555... wounds after your Grot-provided cover save. You've lost 2 Meganobz and taken a wound on one of them. When it's your turn you're 18" away, which means you need a on your charge distance if you want to catch the Bikers. If you don't catch them, they scoot away and keep shooting you, ad nauseum. That's not even taking into account the other bike units in a typical bike list. Emperor help you if you're up against Gravturions with Tigurius. That's 6 Meganobz in one turn from their shooting alone.

You face an Eldar list. The Wave Serpents remove your Grot Screen, then you take a Wraithknight's shooting to the face. None of them will be caught by your 6"-a-turn Deathstar.

You face a Tau list. They don't care about your Grot screen and shoot your Meganobz with Riptides ignoring cover, or Deep Strike their O'vesastar and pour more melta than God into your Deathstar, and then JSJ away from you.

You face Dark Eldar. You never catch them, they pour dakka into you from highly mobile platforms, you die.

You face Daemons. Lol 2++ rerollable.

You face Dark Angels. They have TH/SS, you lose even if you charge them.

You face Necrons, you can't kill their fliers reliably.

You face IG, Medusae and Vendettas happen.

And so on, and so forth.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:


My posts have good suggestions on how. Other people have posted some wisdom on how. Learn from them if you don't choose to learn from me.

The thing is, your advice just doesn't hold up.

Examples:

A Command Squad on bikes with grav-guns (fairly common unit, manouverable enough to get into range easily) shoots your Meganobz. 15 shots, 10 hits, 8.333... wounds, 5.555... wounds after your Grot-provided cover save. You've lost 2 Meganobz and taken a wound on one of them. When it's your turn you're 18" away, which means you need a on your charge distance if you want to catch the Bikers. If you don't catch them, they scoot away and keep shooting you, ad nauseum. That's not even taking into account the other bike units in a typical bike list. Emperor help you if you're up against Gravturions with Tigurius. That's 6 Meganobz in one turn from their shooting alone.

You face an Eldar list. The Wave Serpents remove your Grot Screen, then you take a Wraithknight's shooting to the face. None of them will be caught by your 6"-a-turn Deathstar.

You face a Tau list. They don't care about your Grot screen and shoot your Meganobz with Riptides ignoring cover, or Deep Strike their O'vesastar and pour more melta than God into your Deathstar, and then JSJ away from you.

You face Dark Eldar. You never catch them, they pour dakka into you from highly mobile platforms, you die.

You face Daemons. Lol 2++ rerollable.

You face Dark Angels. They have TH/SS, you lose even if you charge them.

You face Necrons, you can't kill their fliers reliably.

You face IG, Medusae and Vendettas happen.

And so on, and so forth.

Honestly at this point you might want to save your breath against these guys. They have been repeating themselves over and over unceasingly the past 3 pages regardless of the points we bring up. They just keep screaming the same statement of "I did it and won ergo I am right you are wrong" despite us having already shown how that this isn't sufficient enough as evidence. One of them even ignored me. Hopefully the OP can figure it out himself from the stuff we presented. We've done our duty, if they won't listen to reason there's nothing we can do.

the biggest argument I would have against footslogging mega nobz is this... find me a list that uses them that has placed well in a tournament 6th edition tournament... spoiler alert this is going to be a pretty futile search (at least from all the ork lists i have seen do well in tournaments beyond beer and pretzel leagues) honestly is somebody brings footslogging meganobz against any of my armies i would be so overjoyed to see it i might even give them something to charge before murdering them at my convenience

 G00fySmiley wrote:
the biggest argument I would have against footslogging mega nobz is this... find me a list that uses them that has placed well in a tournament 6th edition tournament... spoiler alert this is going to be a pretty futile search (at least from all the ork lists i have seen do well in tournaments beyond beer and pretzel leagues) honestly is somebody brings footslogging meganobz against any of my armies i would be so overjoyed to see it i might even give them something to charge before murdering them at my convenience

Me, amongst the other so called "defeatists" have already pointed this out quite poignantly. They disregard the competitive meta and claim the one they play in is the only one that matters given that it worked for them there. They don't seem to realize how small of a pond they're playing in compared to the big leagues, especially player-skill wise.

OK so I actually thought I would give this a try and see how it went so over the was week i played 3 1999pt games and took 9 MANZ (i don't have 10 models) with no transport just to see how effective they could be. Played Marines twice and Dark Eldar. 2 out of 3 games the MANZ succesfully held their objective and never looked like being moved, HOWEVER, the remaining 1600ish pts of stuff got totally wiped and then with First blood and Slay the warlord it was Good Night Irene. Marines hung back and lascannoned and Heavy Plasma Gunned the MANZ down till they bolted. DE just used dark lances to pick me off.

So I do agree they are a very solid unit that is hard to shift. 10 x 2W 2+ guys are bound to be. BUT if that is all you have left you can't do much from outside 18". I think the cost of 400 odd pts to hold one objective just doesn't quite justify it.

In other games i take a wagon with 3-5 MANZ and a MegaBoss in it. I must say if i can reach something with that they will usually die. Plus i cannot tell you how many times the bosspole has stopped them running.

I think your tactic has some merit however its overly expensive and the results of it coming off succesfuly are pretty minor. A 40pt GTG squad of Grots works better at objective camping. It leaves 1960pts of other stuff to go forward.

Yes, its a very huge difference between walking 6" turn 1, and moving 18" in a Wagon Turn 1.

Then Turn 2.. walking you are at the middle of the field. In a Wagon you move another 6", disembark 6" then can charge up to 12".

If you going to spend that many points on a unit, it needs to do more than babysit an objective.

 G00fySmiley wrote:
the biggest argument I would have against footslogging mega nobz is this... find me a list that uses them that has placed well in a tournament 6th edition tournament... spoiler alert this is going to be a pretty futile search (at least from all the ork lists i have seen do well in tournaments beyond beer and pretzel leagues) honestly is somebody brings footslogging meganobz against any of my armies i would be so overjoyed to see it i might even give them something to charge before murdering them at my convenience

Actually, the biggest argument against footslogging nobz is that you can just drop two for a battlewagen that takes no FOC, enables stacking skorcha shenanigans, adds a lot more survivability than two MANz, makes them immune to psychic powers and tripples their speed. It literally has no downside, since they shrug off any wounds from explosions as well.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:


My posts have good suggestions on how. Other people have posted some wisdom on how. Learn from them if you don't choose to learn from me.

The thing is, your advice just doesn't hold up.

Examples:

A Command Squad on bikes with grav-guns (fairly common unit, manouverable enough to get into range easily) shoots your Meganobz. 15 shots, 10 hits, 8.333... wounds, 5.555... wounds after your Grot-provided cover save. You've lost 2 Meganobz and taken a wound on one of them. When it's your turn you're 18" away, which means you need a on your charge distance if you want to catch the Bikers. If you don't catch them, they scoot away and keep shooting you, ad nauseum. That's not even taking into account the other bike units in a typical bike list. Emperor help you if you're up against Gravturions with Tigurius. That's 6 Meganobz in one turn from their shooting alone.

You face an Eldar list. The Wave Serpents remove your Grot Screen, then you take a Wraithknight's shooting to the face. None of them will be caught by your 6"-a-turn Deathstar.

You face a Tau list. They don't care about your Grot screen and shoot your Meganobz with Riptides ignoring cover, or Deep Strike their O'vesastar and pour more melta than God into your Deathstar, and then JSJ away from you.

You face Dark Eldar. You never catch them, they pour dakka into you from highly mobile platforms, you die.

You face Daemons. Lol 2++ rerollable.

You face Dark Angels. They have TH/SS, you lose even if you charge them.

You face Necrons, you can't kill their fliers reliably.

You face IG, Medusae and Vendettas happen.

And so on, and so forth.

Hyperbole isn't an argument. Pointing out that if i take a Rhino it might get killed by a lascannon isnt an argument against Rhinos. Telling me a WraithKnight can kill my Chaos lord in close vombat ALSO isn't an argument against a Chaos Lord in the list.

So if you want to state the obvious, which is that 10 Meganobz on foot can be killed EVENTUALLY and SOMEHOW, continue on. But we already knew that.

What you don;t know is how to win with them. THAt is the skill worth discussing. It's also worth discussing when its 100% okay to LET them die for the greater good. However, someone who says "nuh uh not Wave Serpents because Eye of Night" isn't really arguing. You're just cataloguing things that can kill them which is...pointless. Because last time i checked, everything could be killed.

So 10 Meganobz has been done. Successfully. If you want to know how, great. If not: great also. This has nothing to do with one on one matchups in a vacuum. units arent IN vacuums.

However, pointing out that a ten rhinos might get killed by a lascannon is an argument against rhinos.

We're talking about a 450 point unit here, and everything he listed is cheaper - even the centurions+tigurius.

Also note the difference between using a mediocre unit well and whether a unit is good. You are arguing the first, most people on this thread the later. No one doubt that you can make ten MANz work. What we are telling you that other units could do that exact job better, due to not falling flat on their face against mobile armies.

Threads like this make me love being an Ork.

In the face of all the MC's and the Plasma/Grav/Melta that is spammed to counter it, we argue if a 2+ armor save on foot is a viable footslogging option.

Can we all just agree that putting them in a vehicle is better than meganobz walking?

 Jancoran wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:


My posts have good suggestions on how. Other people have posted some wisdom on how. Learn from them if you don't choose to learn from me.

The thing is, your advice just doesn't hold up.

Examples:

A Command Squad on bikes with grav-guns (fairly common unit, manouverable enough to get into range easily) shoots your Meganobz. 15 shots, 10 hits, 8.333... wounds, 5.555... wounds after your Grot-provided cover save. You've lost 2 Meganobz and taken a wound on one of them. When it's your turn you're 18" away, which means you need a on your charge distance if you want to catch the Bikers. If you don't catch them, they scoot away and keep shooting you, ad nauseum. That's not even taking into account the other bike units in a typical bike list. Emperor help you if you're up against Gravturions with Tigurius. That's 6 Meganobz in one turn from their shooting alone.

You face an Eldar list. The Wave Serpents remove your Grot Screen, then you take a Wraithknight's shooting to the face. None of them will be caught by your 6"-a-turn Deathstar.

You face a Tau list. They don't care about your Grot screen and shoot your Meganobz with Riptides ignoring cover, or Deep Strike their O'vesastar and pour more melta than God into your Deathstar, and then JSJ away from you.

You face Dark Eldar. You never catch them, they pour dakka into you from highly mobile platforms, you die.

You face Daemons. Lol 2++ rerollable.

You face Dark Angels. They have TH/SS, you lose even if you charge them.

You face Necrons, you can't kill their fliers reliably.

You face IG, Medusae and Vendettas happen.

And so on, and so forth.

Hyperbole isn't an argument. Pointing out that if i take a Rhino it might get killed by a lascannon isnt an argument against Rhinos. Telling me a WraithKnight can kill my Chaos lord in close vombat ALSO isn't an argument against a Chaos Lord in the list.

So if you want to state the obvious, which is that 10 Meganobz on foot can be killed EVENTUALLY and SOMEHOW, continue on. But we already knew that.

What you don;t know is how to win with them. THAt is the skill worth discussing. It's also worth discussing when its 100% okay to LET them die for the greater good. However, someone who says "nuh uh not Wave Serpents because Eye of Night" isn't really arguing. You're just cataloguing things that can kill them which is...pointless. Because last time i checked, everything could be killed.

So 10 Meganobz has been done. Successfully. If you want to know how, great. If not: great also. This has nothing to do with one on one matchups in a vacuum. units arent IN vacuums.

You'll note that all the unit combinations I listed are commonly taken options that are all less expensive than your Meganob Deathstar. That's not hyperbole, it's pointing out that there's a lot of quite common units that would smear your Meganobz over the landscape despite their vaunted "durability".

I know perfectly well how to win with Meganobz, one of our locals is a huge Meganob fan. However, I also understand the concept of threat saturation, and that most things in the game will die to 3 Meganobz charging them, let alone 10. Further, as Jidmah pointed out, by dropping a few you're tripling your movement rate and giving yourself protection against shooting.

What you don;t know is how to win with them....... Because last time i checked, everything could be killed.

No, the point isnt that MANz are bad or cant win. The point is that the Battlewagon suggestion was a FAR better way to go, but was shot down by you. You may know how to win with them, but obviously do not know how to play with them better. Everything can be killed, but losing your MANz because a Riptide Overcharged his IA and just doubled out your 2W units is incredibly poor strategy.

This has nothing to do with one on one matchups in a vacuum. units arent IN vacuums.

Probably the first thing I agree with that you said. But it does not change the fact that your strategy is still very poor.

You want to win with MANz, put them in a Battle Wagon.

 Twoshoesvans wrote:
Coming back into the game after several years. My collection of orks looks to be mobile, with a transport for every squad. I am debating on whether or not to keep my mega nobs. Are they worth their points in todays rule set? Or are they being sold?

Thanks dakka!

Edit: Our group typically plays 1500 points or less.

Clearly SOME of the posters here purposely lead the topic off what the OP asked so I will bring it back.


To answer this question. Yes, meganobs are worth it as the Ork generals have shown on there posts.

Yisali wrote:

 Twoshoesvans wrote:
Coming back into the game after several years. My collection of orks looks to be mobile, with a transport for every squad. I am debating on whether or not to keep my mega nobs. Are they worth their points in todays rule set? Or are they being sold?

Thanks dakka!

Edit: Our group typically plays 1500 points or less.

Clearly SOME of the posters here purposely lead the topic off what the OP asked so I will bring it back.


To answer this question. Yes, meganobs are worth it as the Ork generals have shown on there posts.

This +1

Yisali wrote:

 Twoshoesvans wrote:
Coming back into the game after several years. My collection of orks looks to be mobile, with a transport for every squad. I am debating on whether or not to keep my mega nobs. Are they worth their points in todays rule set? Or are they being sold?

Thanks dakka!

Edit: Our group typically plays 1500 points or less.

Clearly SOME of the posters here purposely lead the topic off what the OP asked so I will bring it back.


To answer this question. Yes, meganobs are worth it as the Ork generals have shown on there posts.

No, we were correcting faulty logic and tactics that would have lead the OP astray, that is not off-topic and we already stated that Mega-Nobz were worth taking in sizable numbers if they are inside a Battlewagon. Footslogging not so much due to the many, MANY reasons stated.

Does anyone else have any suspicions of Yisali being a sock puppet account? Of another certain member due to his similar syntax and stance alongside him having only posted in this thread (conveniently always around the same time as another member...)?

Do not try to REdefine what I'm arguing. I am arguing, simnply, that 10 Meganobz will produce and produce well in almost every game they are in and in those they do not, you can make their deaths serve a purpose. Those are TACTICAL considerations.

The hyperbole over how FLAT their faces will be against mobile armies simply isn't true in all cases. It just flat out isn't. My success can be emulated. I'm not that special.

There are numerous things that this forum is ill equipped to handle. Terrain and its efects are ffectively impossible to discuss as are the potential blocked lines of sight. As are the units around the armies in question.

All you can DO is create a plan and adjust as things go wrong. And in ACTUAL fights, I learned to manage 10 Meganobz to crushing victories. CRUSHING victories. But they didn't do it alone.

Please give it a rest. If you do well with 10 MANz that's great, no one in their right mind should spend over $200 for that goofy, unwieldy and untested unit. That is horrible advice.

Maybe you could recommend that somebody TRY using a reasonably sized unit of 3-6 of them before they mortgage the house and completely change their army comp.

Your experience may be great for you, but I don't have your experience and I can't validate anything you've said, and I'm not about to spend $200 for something that I can see on its face is a bad idea. I'm NOT you, I can't play the games you've played, and I'm not going to spend $200 and hours modeling just to recreate the experiences you've had. Not interested. No thanks.

And part of the problem here is you're taking the perspective that somebody has to convince you. I don't care what you think. I think you're way off base. You can have your opinion, that's cool. Can we chill out here?

 TedNugent wrote:
Please give it a rest. If you do well with 10 MANz that's great, no one in their right mind should spend over $200 for that goofy, unwieldy and untested unit. That is horrible advice.

Maybe you could recommend that somebody TRY using a reasonably sized unit of 3-6 of them before they mortgage the house and completely change their army comp.

Your experience may be great for you, but I don't have your experience and I can't validate anything you've said, and I'm not about to spend $200 for something that I can see on its face is a bad idea. I'm NOT you, I can't play the games you've played, and I'm not going to spend $200 and hours modeling just to recreate the experiences you've had. Not interested. No thanks.

And part of the problem here is you're taking the perspective that somebody has to convince you. I don't care what you think. I think you're way off base. You can have your opinion, that's cool. Can we chill out here?

Lol exaggerate much??? Lets try and stay on topic okay? The OP question is "Are meganobz worth it?"


I think they are worth it for ap2, 2 wounds, and re roll your misses.

osirisx69 wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
Please give it a rest. If you do well with 10 MANz that's great, no one in their right mind should spend over $200 for that goofy, unwieldy and untested unit. That is horrible advice.

Maybe you could recommend that somebody TRY using a reasonably sized unit of 3-6 of them before they mortgage the house and completely change their army comp.

Your experience may be great for you, but I don't have your experience and I can't validate anything you've said, and I'm not about to spend $200 for something that I can see on its face is a bad idea. I'm NOT you, I can't play the games you've played, and I'm not going to spend $200 and hours modeling just to recreate the experiences you've had. Not interested. No thanks.

And part of the problem here is you're taking the perspective that somebody has to convince you. I don't care what you think. I think you're way off base. You can have your opinion, that's cool. Can we chill out here?

Lol exaggerate much??? Lets try and stay on topic okay? The OP question is "Are meganobz worth it?"


I think they are worth it for ap2, 2 wounds, and re roll your misses.

Too bad they don't reroll misses then, eh?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
Please give it a rest. If you do well with 10 MANz that's great, no one in their right mind should spend over $200 for that goofy, unwieldy and untested unit. That is horrible advice.

Maybe you could recommend that somebody TRY using a reasonably sized unit of 3-6 of them before they mortgage the house and completely change their army comp.

Your experience may be great for you, but I don't have your experience and I can't validate anything you've said, and I'm not about to spend $200 for something that I can see on its face is a bad idea. I'm NOT you, I can't play the games you've played, and I'm not going to spend $200 and hours modeling just to recreate the experiences you've had. Not interested. No thanks.

And part of the problem here is you're taking the perspective that somebody has to convince you. I don't care what you think. I think you're way off base. You can have your opinion, that's cool. Can we chill out here?

Lol exaggerate much??? Lets try and stay on topic okay? The OP question is "Are meganobz worth it?"


I think they are worth it for ap2, 2 wounds, and re roll your misses.

Too bad they don't reroll misses then, eh?

Oh really? What does twin linked mean to you then? Are you just trying to be argumentative because if you are its not funny.

osirisx69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
Please give it a rest. If you do well with 10 MANz that's great, no one in their right mind should spend over $200 for that goofy, unwieldy and untested unit. That is horrible advice.

Maybe you could recommend that somebody TRY using a reasonably sized unit of 3-6 of them before they mortgage the house and completely change their army comp.

Your experience may be great for you, but I don't have your experience and I can't validate anything you've said, and I'm not about to spend $200 for something that I can see on its face is a bad idea. I'm NOT you, I can't play the games you've played, and I'm not going to spend $200 and hours modeling just to recreate the experiences you've had. Not interested. No thanks.

And part of the problem here is you're taking the perspective that somebody has to convince you. I don't care what you think. I think you're way off base. You can have your opinion, that's cool. Can we chill out here?

Lol exaggerate much??? Lets try and stay on topic okay? The OP question is "Are meganobz worth it?"


I think they are worth it for ap2, 2 wounds, and re roll your misses.

Too bad they don't reroll misses then, eh?

Oh really? What does twin linked mean to you then? Are you just trying to be argumentative because if you are its not funny.

You don't have twin-linked Power Klaws.

osirisx69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
Please give it a rest. If you do well with 10 MANz that's great, no one in their right mind should spend over $200 for that goofy, unwieldy and untested unit. That is horrible advice.

Maybe you could recommend that somebody TRY using a reasonably sized unit of 3-6 of them before they mortgage the house and completely change their army comp.

Your experience may be great for you, but I don't have your experience and I can't validate anything you've said, and I'm not about to spend $200 for something that I can see on its face is a bad idea. I'm NOT you, I can't play the games you've played, and I'm not going to spend $200 and hours modeling just to recreate the experiences you've had. Not interested. No thanks.

And part of the problem here is you're taking the perspective that somebody has to convince you. I don't care what you think. I think you're way off base. You can have your opinion, that's cool. Can we chill out here?

Lol exaggerate much??? Lets try and stay on topic okay? The OP question is "Are meganobz worth it?"


I think they are worth it for ap2, 2 wounds, and re roll your misses.

Too bad they don't reroll misses then, eh?

Oh really? What does twin linked mean to you then? Are you just trying to be argumentative because if you are its not funny.

The way you stated it was deliberately vague as it is in the context of using meganobz for close combat and no one has bothered to mention their nearly non-factor ranged capability because of their inability to overwatch so it is not something we are arguing about since you'll be hopeless outranged by anything worth shooting at. If anything you are the one trying to be argumentative due to your lack of points. You keep changing the goalposts, AGAIN. No one has said Meganobz are not worth it in of themselves. Just that taking a butt ton of them footslogging is something that is not viable. That was what we were arguing.

osirisx69 wrote:


Lol exaggerate much??? Lets try and stay on topic okay? The OP question is "Are meganobz worth it?"


I think they are worth it for ap2, 2 wounds, and re roll your misses.

I'm sorry, what's so exciting about a twin-linked shoota at BS2? Okay, that's 18" range, 2 shots, BS2. You get a 55% chance to hit on a two strength 4 shots with AP value 6. And you can't even overwatch by merit of the slow and purposeful rule.

By contrast, A Terminator, which costs the same amount of points, has a storm bolter, which has 2 shots at 24" range and AP5 and BS4, and he can overwatch.

So its shooting is roundly inferior to an equivalently costed unit.

Second, I was on topic, "are Meganobz worth it," as in, are they worth $200 of my hard-earned cash in order to put together a one-dimensional footslogging deathstar unit with no deepstriking and slow and purposeful? Answer: No.

Why don't you just wait until the next codex until you start getting excited about something that is bound to change in the next codex?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:



Oh really? What does twin linked mean to you then? Are you just trying to be argumentative because if you are its not funny.

You don't have twin-linked Power Klaws.

Mind blown. Maybe that's why, he thinks they have twin-linked power klaws.

Who knew that Meganobz would be such a touchy subject?

I think Meganobz are best used as a tactical nuke. Put 3-5 of them in a trukk or wagon with a MegaBoss and go flat out across the board toward something squishy. It's too risky/slow to footslog such an expensive unit, leave that to the mobs of Boyz.

 TedNugent wrote:
Please give it a rest. If you do well with 10 MANz that's great, no one in their right mind should spend over $200 for that goofy, unwieldy and untested unit. That is horrible advice.

Maybe you could recommend that somebody TRY using a reasonably sized unit of 3-6 of them before they mortgage the house and completely change their army comp.

Your experience may be great for you, but I don't have your experience and I can't validate anything you've said, and I'm not about to spend $200 for something that I can see on its face is a bad idea. I'm NOT you, I can't play the games you've played, and I'm not going to spend $200 and hours modeling just to recreate the experiences you've had. Not interested. No thanks.

And part of the problem here is you're taking the perspective that somebody has to convince you. I don't care what you think. I think you're way off base. You can have your opinion, that's cool. Can we chill out here?

I didn't tell anyone to spend $200. I said it works. And if they want to spend $200, then great. It will work but whoever goes down that path will want advice.

I didn't ask you to validate it because no one on Dakkadakka owes that to you or I. This place is for opinions. and yeah, thanks for letting me have my opinion. Lol. But you can validate what i said. Ask around at www.Warsound.com. Its our local forum. I dont mind. Ask them how they did against that ork army I played. Only one of them beat it so i assume it should not take you long to "validate".

The original poster asked for help in evaluating whether theyt can be used. They can. I explained how. I gave the list I used. I gave the context. theres really nothing more that I can do but answer the question.

Sop spend your $200 on whatever you like. orks have a LOT of ways to win besides Meganobz. But Meganobz are AWESOME and I have zero reservation about that observation after using them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fragile wrote:

Probably the first thing I agree with that you said. But it does not change the fact that your strategy is still very poor.
You want to win with MANz, put them in a Battle Wagon.

Or don't. Either way.

You really are misreading me (in part). I never said the Battle wagon strategy was a lost cause. In fact i espoused NO opinion on the quality of that idea, unlike some. I understand quite clearly how to use the battle wagons( and that would be because its not that complicated).

However... I ALSO said you didn't NEED the battle wagon. And you don't. And I've shown that to ALSO be true. So if YOU cannot do it both ways I understand. But for you to claim it as necessity is to ignore what has already happened.

As for a a Riptide Overcharging its reactor it is a thing of awesome beauty but if that's your reasoning then you must see how futile it is to use the battle wagon in that example because the Battlewagon wont BE there the second round and the guys inside that you prized putting there are gonna get whalloped by the SECOND Riptide as well once popped if the first cant do it, and theyll be far more bunched than *I* would have them as a free moving unit.

It is perhaps fortunate that you HAVE 9 zzap guns and two loota units and so on to limit the riptides time on this earth, don't you think (the whole vacuum thing?)? Reserves are underrated... Like a lot... as a method of simply making things like Riptides half as useful (but yes still useful). Let the Riptide wound itself repeatedly for a round or two while it kills spread out formations worrth 2-16 points per model. ya know? It's fine.

As I said: matchups and terrain also play into this. Forums are terrible for that reason when abstracting. But the bottom line: it can be done either way. Successfully.

Riptides dont take wounds from overcharging. Your thinking of Nova Charging.

Nova charging and Gets Hot can both do it.

I have the old dread mob deal as the core of my ork list. It means that my orks dont work well in 6th and are for casual play only. I don't care much about that as to me orks are more fun than win. So far I have but one meganob, loose from an auction lot, and want to buy more for the fun of it, i like the model, not so hot on the price.

Wonder how many i need, do I run three or four, or more? I cant really afford more and they are mainly for flavour in casual games, but I think they would fit in with the theme.

Yes that does mean footslogger MANz but I don't care too much so long as I get some use out of them

Question is are they at all viable even for casual play in small quantities with kans and assorted green tide orks? I wonder if they will ever reach combat, if they wont then casual theme or not it wont be worth buying the models.

Three in a trukk already work really well, if you like that unit you get another one of three in a trukk.

 TedNugent wrote:
Please give it a rest. If you do well with 10 MANz that's great, no one in their right mind should spend over $200 for that goofy, unwieldy and untested unit. That is horrible advice.

Maybe you could recommend that somebody TRY using a reasonably sized unit of 3-6 of them before they mortgage the house and completely change their army comp.

Your experience may be great for you, but I don't have your experience and I can't validate anything you've said, and I'm not about to spend $200 for something that I can see on its face is a bad idea. I'm NOT you, I can't play the games you've played, and I'm not going to spend $200 and hours modeling just to recreate the experiences you've had. Not interested. No thanks.

And part of the problem here is you're taking the perspective that somebody has to convince you. I don't care what you think. I think you're way off base. You can have your opinion, that's cool. Can we chill out here?

This, so many times. Exalted.

 Jancoran wrote:
Do not try to REdefine what I'm arguing. I am arguing, simnply, that 10 Meganobz will produce and produce well in almost every game they are in and in those they do not, you can make their deaths serve a purpose. Those are TACTICAL considerations.

The hyperbole over how FLAT their faces will be against mobile armies simply isn't true in all cases. It just flat out isn't. My success can be emulated. I'm not that special.

There are numerous things that this forum is ill equipped to handle. Terrain and its efects are ffectively impossible to discuss as are the potential blocked lines of sight. As are the units around the armies in question.

All you can DO is create a plan and adjust as things go wrong. And in ACTUAL fights, I learned to manage 10 Meganobz to crushing victories. CRUSHING victories. But they didn't do it alone.

They will still always do worse than 8 MANz in a naked battlewagon. Even in your army, with your tactics. That's the whole point. There is literally no reason to have them footsloggig, even if they do well that way. Because they are inferior to another options that's basically free.

It's like putting meks with big shootaz in loota units. The unit will still work and you'll probably still win games with it, but a big shoota will always be worse than a deff gun, precision shots or not.

In any case, I am interested to know more tricks to force the opponent to come at me instead of blasting my army from afar.
(for me, thats the core of your strategy, more than just having a bunch of meganobz).
Even if not using Meganobz, it is alway useful.

 Jancoran wrote:


It is perhaps fortunate that you HAVE 9 zzap guns and two loota units and so on to limit the riptides time on this earth, don't you think (the whole vacuum thing?)?

You need on average 54 Loota shots and all your Zzap guns (with ammo runts) to kill a Riptide per turn, assuming it's not just stood out of LoS to abuse JSJ against you. So yeah, you can reliably shoot a Riptide to death in one turn (providing it doesn't get the Nova Charge up), but then your Meganobz eat it. You're honestly advocating trying to outshoot Tau as Orks long enough to get something that moves 6" a turn into a charge position, and you don't see the problem in that?

XC18 wrote:

In any case, I am interested to know more tricks to force the opponent to come at me instead of blasting my army from afar.
(for me, thats the core of your strategy, more than just having a bunch of meganobz).
Even if not using Meganobz, it is alway useful.

Lootas and zzap guyns are hard to ignore. if you fire them enough times the enemy will probably try to do something about it. Thats what i found. Ammo runts a must on those Zzap guns though!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

You need on average 54 Loota shots and all your Zzap guns (with ammo runts) to kill a Riptide per turn, assuming it's not just stood out of LoS to abuse JSJ against you. So yeah, you can reliably shoot a Riptide to death in one turn (providing it doesn't get the Nova Charge up), but then your Meganobz eat it. You're honestly advocating trying to outshoot Tau as Orks long enough to get something that moves 6" a turn into a charge position, and you don't see the problem in that?

If i kill two Riptides, in most lists, thats all of them. Yes, there are crazy lists with more but If I kill two Riptides by round 2, I should be able to use the reserves to do what I need to do. For Tau (and i am a VERY good Tau General) our bigget poblem is being able to get to the OTHER guys objectives safely. It generally only happens briefly before the Kroot get overrun. Most of the Line breaking cant be done by troops in the Tau force. Generally only Fast attacks will and kroot on a lucky day can hold out. So depending on the enemy... you may have to do no MORE than kill the Two Riuptides in order to advance the next 3-4 rounds in RELATIVE safety. So reserve what you cant afford to lose, unleash your fusilade for two rounds and then begin the process of taking objectives.

Every list is different. In MY list which was designed to make these tactics work, I had a boat load of Gretchin that scattered and took up a ton of space. Enemies couldn't get behind me without first wasting their precious round of fire on the little bastards. Quite annoying Im sure. Their alternative targets were: Lootas, which most of their weapons couldn't reach easily, or the Tough 7 Artillery. Needless to say, not great choices and lootas usually won top spot on the list. The War buggies were moving flat out and grabbing terrain for side arcs later( in round 1) so rarely ever a target and i often reserved them anyweays.

So in round 1, the Meganobz were either surrounded by Gretchen or else out of sight where they could advance most safely. Against a pair of Riptides I'd just reserve them if it seemed like a worst case scenario matchup (maybe), secure in the knowledge that I needed only contest by games end anyways and with a lot of bulk to get there.

Once the second round was through, Riptides dispatched, that leaves the rest of the force to deal with. At least one unit of lootas is looking near death by then, but they've done their job. Buggies have blasted a tank or two by then in the side and the orkz, gretchin and Kommandos are now downfield a ways and ready for round 3 charges if they haven't already. Ther enemy isn't moving forward. This is good.

The one army that beat me was an Ork/Necron hybrid. annihilation barges were seemingly unkillable in that game and when my Meganobz were ready to charge BOTH barges and his ork bikerz, I broke. ah fate. Close one.

There are no UNbeatable units or combos BUT there are GREAt tactics for using 10 Meganobz. my personal AVERSION to getting the Meganobz clumped up in a wreckage crater and bombed by Riptides causes me not to prefer having them in the vehicle. i like 10, spread out and very very difficult to target. It was a winning strategy.

You won't kill 2 Riptides on average by round 2 though. Half the time the Tau player gets to go first, Riptides have JSJ and as such can hide out of LoS, and you've only got a max of 9 ammo runts for your Zzap Gunz. Then there's the Nova Charge as well. It's just not reliable enough.

Sometimes that does happen. Yup. And you plan accordingly. How would you adjust for it?

 Jancoran wrote:
Sometimes that does happen. Yup. And you plan accordingly. How would you adjust for it?

By not taking 10 walking Meganobz in the first place.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Sometimes that does happen. Yup. And you plan accordingly. How would you adjust for it?

By not taking 10 walking Meganobz in the first place.

Lol. That just about sums up the last 4 pages very nicely, and it's very good advice.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Sometimes that does happen. Yup. And you plan accordingly. How would you adjust for it?

By not taking 10 walking Meganobz in the first place.

Im glad the Dakka tactics forums are worthwhile.

Poor Jancoren. I feel for you pal. No matter what you write or how well your meganobs have performed in your list ( which I like as you know) this is just becoming a 'they say you say' tactica.

I think the OP has got his answer. He can choose to believe whatever he feels, lol.

Whats best to run alongside MANZ ? Im gonna get back into orks and was thinking manz missiles with shoots boyz trucks and bikers

 Jancoran wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Sometimes that does happen. Yup. And you plan accordingly. How would you adjust for it?

By not taking 10 walking Meganobz in the first place.

Im glad the Dakka tactics forums are worthwhile.

If I had to run a 10-man walking MANz unit, I'd run Warbikers, Nob bikers or MANz missiles in order to create faster threats that'd need to be dealt with, pretty much what you're already doing. It's just that the MANz themselves aren't actually dangerous at first, so I have 3 or 4 rounds to shoot down the Lootas and Zzap Guns before I even need to worry about the MANz.

 Jancoran wrote:
Sometimes that does happen. Yup. And you plan accordingly. How would you adjust for it?

You don't plan based on things that may happen under the best cases.

I had a unit of TH/SS charge a unit of two Carnifex with TL devs. Overwatch ended up killing them all.

I've seen three out of four games where a Land raider immobilized itself on T1 by moving through terrain even with a re-roll.

Yes, sometimes low percentile stuff can happen. You should never plan for it to happen often. Just like killing two riptides with Ork shooting.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Crimson-King2120 wrote:
Whats best to run alongside MANZ ? Im gonna get back into orks and was thinking manz missiles with shoots boyz trucks and bikers

That seems to be the best, although I rarely win with Orks even with that kind of build. My list usually is around this:

Warboss + Manz + Battlewagon
Warboss + Bike nobs
Boyz and Boyz and Boyz
Lootas
Dakkajet or two
Sometimes more battlewagons for the boyz to ride in





Jancoran, have you considered you're a good tactical player and winning despite of your non-optimal choices rather than because of them?

 felixcat wrote:

Poor Jancoren. I feel for you pal. No matter what you write or how well your meganobs have performed in your list ( which I like as you know) this is just becoming a 'they say you say' tactica.

I think the OP has got his answer. He can choose to believe whatever he feels, lol.

Werd

The OP had his answer by page 2 haha. I lack the models to use them any way other than the 4 Mega nobs in a truck.

Thank you dakka

Crimson-King2120 wrote:
Whats best to run alongside MANZ ? Im gonna get back into orks and was thinking manz missiles with shoots boyz trucks and bikers

Manz are generally not something you build your list around. They're more of an elite support.

If you run a squad with warboss in a battlewagon - they just rush forward alongside the others, though the wagon must be placed more carefully cause unlike the boyz that can run if needed, those guyz are too slow and mellee oriented to be stuck midfield - the enemy has a round or two safe from them. They just have some specifics you should take into account. Manz themselves are cheaper than a squad of boyz, hit hard in mellee but are significantly less shooty, slower and have huge morale problems when left without indep. They ain't afraid of wagon kabooming from the perspective of taking damage but will probably spend a few rounds just getting out of a crater. They're afraid of monstrous creatures, gravgunz and ap2 wounds on the whole unlike the boyz. But endure other types of fire quite well thanks to 2+.
If you're running them in a wagon, it might be a good idea to place a min squad with a KFF mek especially when you ain't got megaarmored boss.

Another option is MANZ missile in a truck. This ones are for distraction mostly. Don't expect them to reach anything but never loose hope With some blos they might even get there.



btw, focusing on killing riptides with shooting early game as an ork is a bad tactical advice

Yes. let the Riptides do their thing.

Apologies for restarting the thread. I prefer to see this as recycling rather than necromancy....

Just won an auction lot and two more MANZ are on their way.

I was advised three in a trukk, so I eBayed two MANZ, they come wirth scorcha and rokkit arms. My current model has a scorcha.

So next up:

1. The trukk? My army is a footslogger list, I have no vehicles other than walkers , will a single trukk therefore be poiintless unless I mechanise more or most of my list, or will the distraction value be enough.

2. Weapons loadouts. I like the idea of three scorchas, it would certainly put down the hurt on a tarpit unit, killing enough chaff the klaws can do the rest. I hate rokkits because a single shot Bs2 weapon isnt worth anything to me.
Am I missing something, should I be converting weapons to twin linked shootas or scorchas?

3. Rumours of deepstriking MANZ. This could solve a lot of problems, I wonder if I should hold back on the trukk until Orks get redone.

4. Footslogging MANZ. This leaves me with three footslogging MANZ with scorchas, I can see this being a good counterassault unit for a green tide/kanwall advance.

Background to help me with my decision making.

The rest of the army consists of about 90 assorted boyz inc three klaw nobz, 5 slugga nobz, 15 lootas, 6 kans, 1 dred, bike warboss (actually converted boar general), SAG mek (going to convert up a KFF mek also), 3 deffkoptas, 10 grots boxset (still on the sprue all this time saying free me, free me), bits to make some burna boyz (would like to include meks in this unit to service the walkers). I also have received one preassembbled Stompa as a gift.
This armies not for tourney, but I dont want to throw away points on junk unnecessarily and want this army to try to offer a decent challenge on any tabletop . The army is mostly together from bits, auction lot scrap and one core boxset. It's an also-ran force and not one I am purposely investing in. I like the idea of a green tide plus kanwall and think the other walkers fit in with this.

Advice and opinions welcome.

If you aren't going first, deploy your trukk out of the enemy's Line of Sight to avoid it being blown up in the first round of shooting. It will die as soon as it moves, but hopefully it will have got the MANs most of the way to their destination by that point.

MANs are a great counter-assault unit, but unfortunately, that's not something orks really need to invest in. The vast majority of situations where you need to counter-assault can be handled with another mob of boys.

Deploying the nobs from a Stompa is something that I haven't tried, but could be fun. The Stompa is fast and survivable, while the nobs are tough enough to survive a round of sitting outside it after they deploy, which is generally an issue for any ork unit disembarking from a Stompa.

You just reserve the trukk. Hiding behind terrain is hard and not always possible, not to mention that some weapons just ignore LoS.

When it comes on, you can drive 24" and wait for your opponent to blow up the trukk, leaving them either in the middle of the enemy ranks or on an objective.

and...boarding planks.

 Jidmah wrote:
You just reserve the trukk. Hiding behind terrain is hard and not always possible, not to mention that some weapons just ignore LoS.

When it comes on, you can drive 24" and wait for your opponent to blow up the trukk, leaving them either in the middle of the enemy ranks or on an objective.

Nice tip, the MANz will be Troops so my opponent will have to deal with them, scoring and all that.

Definitely use a trukk though, not a Battlewagon?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also still awaiting answers on choice of weapons.

To recap, my MANz came with 2x scorcha and 1x rokkit, but willing to convert to any combo recommended, I have the skill and the bits, and I am open to suggestions.

Battlewagon Meganobs can work, but they use totally different tactics. Probably not effective if you are only fielding one BW, unless you run it alongside the Stompa.

I'm pretty sure the consensus is that you always want MAN to be armed with Kombi-Skorchas.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
Battlewagon Meganobs can work, but they use totally different tactics. Probably not effective if you are only fielding one BW, unless you run it alongside the Stompa.

I'm pretty sure the consensus is that you always want MAN to be armed with Kombi-Skorchas.

Yep, Kombi-shootaz are too dinky and Kombi-rokkitz can't hit squat when you need them to.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
Battlewagon Meganobs can work, but they use totally different tactics. Probably not effective if you are only fielding one BW, unless you run it alongside the Stompa.

I wont be using the Stompa often, out of fairness, but if I do I will not need a Battlewagon.

The different tactics for Battleagons, does this mean massed deffrollas bunching the targets for a burna-boy/ MANz cookout? Or something else

 Perfect Organism wrote:

I'm pretty sure the consensus is that you always want MAN to be armed with Kombi-Skorchas.

Pretty much what I worked out, there is a case for the TL shoota, but the kombi-skorcha offers an awful lot of firepower and you don't need to aim.
I had to ask though, obviously you lot have a lot more experience with MANz than I.


Keep the answers rolling guys this has been very helpful.

I often run MANZ in a wagon. The key to their survival is to run 3 or 4 wagons with a juicy target in all of them. 2 are full of shoota boyz and the 4th either has a squad of regular cybork Nobz or Tankbustas (but these are usually just to mix it up a little). A nice tactic is to have a Megaboss with the MANZ. You can have your MANZ jump out and punch almost anything with a high chance of success (the boss provides some staying power with his bosspole) OR you can have the MANZ jump out and swat one thing while the boss jumps out and whallops something else by himself.

This also works quite well if you have a boarding plank. Power Klaw drive-bys are pretty decent.

Just remember to keep your front armour facing the enemy at all times if possible and try and take out Lance weapons early if you can. Melta can hurt too but its pretty short range and one thing you don't want to do is get close to a Battlewagon with Deffrolla toting a PK. A KFF Mek in with one of the Shoota mobs also helps.

Hey forum,

Meganobz are excellent in 6th edition. Cost effective in points when compared to Nobz, 2+ armor is near invioable, power klaw nough said, throw them in a wagon or trukk, dump them in front of something, and they most likely wont be there after your assault phase

I have run MANz since I started playing 40k in the late 90's. I use to run 9 and a Warboss in a trukk back when they were taken as a body guard to the Warboss. These days I tend to run them in a Squad of 5 in a Trukk. No Warboss just Manz and Trukk. I also take them all with Kombi-Skorchas and use them like a Burna Wagon Squad. I like Manz better in this role as the Skorcha has a better Strength and AP. I always run 3 Battle Wagons in every list I play they are an auto include for my lists and I normally fill them with Shoota Boyz, Burna Boyz or Tank Bustas. The Battle Wagons will be a mobile screen to the Trukks rolling up behind them. I will normally through about 80% of my army into combat all in one big assault. The MANz will be at the pointy end of the spear and if they are killed I don't really care I have enough other stuff to back them up.

So all in all I love MANz they are a great unit and I enjoy playing them. They are the cheepest way of fielding a Power Klaw in the codex and are hard a nails.