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Threads like this make me love being an Ork.

In the face of all the MC's and the Plasma/Grav/Melta that is spammed to counter it, we argue if a 2+ armor save on foot is a viable footslogging option.

Can we all just agree that putting them in a vehicle is better than meganobz walking?

 Jancoran wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:


My posts have good suggestions on how. Other people have posted some wisdom on how. Learn from them if you don't choose to learn from me.

The thing is, your advice just doesn't hold up.

Examples:

A Command Squad on bikes with grav-guns (fairly common unit, manouverable enough to get into range easily) shoots your Meganobz. 15 shots, 10 hits, 8.333... wounds, 5.555... wounds after your Grot-provided cover save. You've lost 2 Meganobz and taken a wound on one of them. When it's your turn you're 18" away, which means you need a on your charge distance if you want to catch the Bikers. If you don't catch them, they scoot away and keep shooting you, ad nauseum. That's not even taking into account the other bike units in a typical bike list. Emperor help you if you're up against Gravturions with Tigurius. That's 6 Meganobz in one turn from their shooting alone.

You face an Eldar list. The Wave Serpents remove your Grot Screen, then you take a Wraithknight's shooting to the face. None of them will be caught by your 6"-a-turn Deathstar.

You face a Tau list. They don't care about your Grot screen and shoot your Meganobz with Riptides ignoring cover, or Deep Strike their O'vesastar and pour more melta than God into your Deathstar, and then JSJ away from you.

You face Dark Eldar. You never catch them, they pour dakka into you from highly mobile platforms, you die.

You face Daemons. Lol 2++ rerollable.

You face Dark Angels. They have TH/SS, you lose even if you charge them.

You face Necrons, you can't kill their fliers reliably.

You face IG, Medusae and Vendettas happen.

And so on, and so forth.

Hyperbole isn't an argument. Pointing out that if i take a Rhino it might get killed by a lascannon isnt an argument against Rhinos. Telling me a WraithKnight can kill my Chaos lord in close vombat ALSO isn't an argument against a Chaos Lord in the list.

So if you want to state the obvious, which is that 10 Meganobz on foot can be killed EVENTUALLY and SOMEHOW, continue on. But we already knew that.

What you don;t know is how to win with them. THAt is the skill worth discussing. It's also worth discussing when its 100% okay to LET them die for the greater good. However, someone who says "nuh uh not Wave Serpents because Eye of Night" isn't really arguing. You're just cataloguing things that can kill them which is...pointless. Because last time i checked, everything could be killed.

So 10 Meganobz has been done. Successfully. If you want to know how, great. If not: great also. This has nothing to do with one on one matchups in a vacuum. units arent IN vacuums.

You'll note that all the unit combinations I listed are commonly taken options that are all less expensive than your Meganob Deathstar. That's not hyperbole, it's pointing out that there's a lot of quite common units that would smear your Meganobz over the landscape despite their vaunted "durability".

I know perfectly well how to win with Meganobz, one of our locals is a huge Meganob fan. However, I also understand the concept of threat saturation, and that most things in the game will die to 3 Meganobz charging them, let alone 10. Further, as Jidmah pointed out, by dropping a few you're tripling your movement rate and giving yourself protection against shooting.

What you don;t know is how to win with them....... Because last time i checked, everything could be killed.

No, the point isnt that MANz are bad or cant win. The point is that the Battlewagon suggestion was a FAR better way to go, but was shot down by you. You may know how to win with them, but obviously do not know how to play with them better. Everything can be killed, but losing your MANz because a Riptide Overcharged his IA and just doubled out your 2W units is incredibly poor strategy.

This has nothing to do with one on one matchups in a vacuum. units arent IN vacuums.

Probably the first thing I agree with that you said. But it does not change the fact that your strategy is still very poor.

You want to win with MANz, put them in a Battle Wagon.

 Twoshoesvans wrote:
Coming back into the game after several years. My collection of orks looks to be mobile, with a transport for every squad. I am debating on whether or not to keep my mega nobs. Are they worth their points in todays rule set? Or are they being sold?

Thanks dakka!

Edit: Our group typically plays 1500 points or less.

Clearly SOME of the posters here purposely lead the topic off what the OP asked so I will bring it back.


To answer this question. Yes, meganobs are worth it as the Ork generals have shown on there posts.

Yisali wrote:

 Twoshoesvans wrote:
Coming back into the game after several years. My collection of orks looks to be mobile, with a transport for every squad. I am debating on whether or not to keep my mega nobs. Are they worth their points in todays rule set? Or are they being sold?

Thanks dakka!

Edit: Our group typically plays 1500 points or less.

Clearly SOME of the posters here purposely lead the topic off what the OP asked so I will bring it back.


To answer this question. Yes, meganobs are worth it as the Ork generals have shown on there posts.

This +1

Yisali wrote:

 Twoshoesvans wrote:
Coming back into the game after several years. My collection of orks looks to be mobile, with a transport for every squad. I am debating on whether or not to keep my mega nobs. Are they worth their points in todays rule set? Or are they being sold?

Thanks dakka!

Edit: Our group typically plays 1500 points or less.

Clearly SOME of the posters here purposely lead the topic off what the OP asked so I will bring it back.


To answer this question. Yes, meganobs are worth it as the Ork generals have shown on there posts.

No, we were correcting faulty logic and tactics that would have lead the OP astray, that is not off-topic and we already stated that Mega-Nobz were worth taking in sizable numbers if they are inside a Battlewagon. Footslogging not so much due to the many, MANY reasons stated.

Does anyone else have any suspicions of Yisali being a sock puppet account? Of another certain member due to his similar syntax and stance alongside him having only posted in this thread (conveniently always around the same time as another member...)?

Do not try to REdefine what I'm arguing. I am arguing, simnply, that 10 Meganobz will produce and produce well in almost every game they are in and in those they do not, you can make their deaths serve a purpose. Those are TACTICAL considerations.

The hyperbole over how FLAT their faces will be against mobile armies simply isn't true in all cases. It just flat out isn't. My success can be emulated. I'm not that special.

There are numerous things that this forum is ill equipped to handle. Terrain and its efects are ffectively impossible to discuss as are the potential blocked lines of sight. As are the units around the armies in question.

All you can DO is create a plan and adjust as things go wrong. And in ACTUAL fights, I learned to manage 10 Meganobz to crushing victories. CRUSHING victories. But they didn't do it alone.

Please give it a rest. If you do well with 10 MANz that's great, no one in their right mind should spend over $200 for that goofy, unwieldy and untested unit. That is horrible advice.

Maybe you could recommend that somebody TRY using a reasonably sized unit of 3-6 of them before they mortgage the house and completely change their army comp.

Your experience may be great for you, but I don't have your experience and I can't validate anything you've said, and I'm not about to spend $200 for something that I can see on its face is a bad idea. I'm NOT you, I can't play the games you've played, and I'm not going to spend $200 and hours modeling just to recreate the experiences you've had. Not interested. No thanks.

And part of the problem here is you're taking the perspective that somebody has to convince you. I don't care what you think. I think you're way off base. You can have your opinion, that's cool. Can we chill out here?

 TedNugent wrote:
Please give it a rest. If you do well with 10 MANz that's great, no one in their right mind should spend over $200 for that goofy, unwieldy and untested unit. That is horrible advice.

Maybe you could recommend that somebody TRY using a reasonably sized unit of 3-6 of them before they mortgage the house and completely change their army comp.

Your experience may be great for you, but I don't have your experience and I can't validate anything you've said, and I'm not about to spend $200 for something that I can see on its face is a bad idea. I'm NOT you, I can't play the games you've played, and I'm not going to spend $200 and hours modeling just to recreate the experiences you've had. Not interested. No thanks.

And part of the problem here is you're taking the perspective that somebody has to convince you. I don't care what you think. I think you're way off base. You can have your opinion, that's cool. Can we chill out here?

Lol exaggerate much??? Lets try and stay on topic okay? The OP question is "Are meganobz worth it?"


I think they are worth it for ap2, 2 wounds, and re roll your misses.

osirisx69 wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
Please give it a rest. If you do well with 10 MANz that's great, no one in their right mind should spend over $200 for that goofy, unwieldy and untested unit. That is horrible advice.

Maybe you could recommend that somebody TRY using a reasonably sized unit of 3-6 of them before they mortgage the house and completely change their army comp.

Your experience may be great for you, but I don't have your experience and I can't validate anything you've said, and I'm not about to spend $200 for something that I can see on its face is a bad idea. I'm NOT you, I can't play the games you've played, and I'm not going to spend $200 and hours modeling just to recreate the experiences you've had. Not interested. No thanks.

And part of the problem here is you're taking the perspective that somebody has to convince you. I don't care what you think. I think you're way off base. You can have your opinion, that's cool. Can we chill out here?

Lol exaggerate much??? Lets try and stay on topic okay? The OP question is "Are meganobz worth it?"


I think they are worth it for ap2, 2 wounds, and re roll your misses.

Too bad they don't reroll misses then, eh?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
Please give it a rest. If you do well with 10 MANz that's great, no one in their right mind should spend over $200 for that goofy, unwieldy and untested unit. That is horrible advice.

Maybe you could recommend that somebody TRY using a reasonably sized unit of 3-6 of them before they mortgage the house and completely change their army comp.

Your experience may be great for you, but I don't have your experience and I can't validate anything you've said, and I'm not about to spend $200 for something that I can see on its face is a bad idea. I'm NOT you, I can't play the games you've played, and I'm not going to spend $200 and hours modeling just to recreate the experiences you've had. Not interested. No thanks.

And part of the problem here is you're taking the perspective that somebody has to convince you. I don't care what you think. I think you're way off base. You can have your opinion, that's cool. Can we chill out here?

Lol exaggerate much??? Lets try and stay on topic okay? The OP question is "Are meganobz worth it?"


I think they are worth it for ap2, 2 wounds, and re roll your misses.

Too bad they don't reroll misses then, eh?

Oh really? What does twin linked mean to you then? Are you just trying to be argumentative because if you are its not funny.

osirisx69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
Please give it a rest. If you do well with 10 MANz that's great, no one in their right mind should spend over $200 for that goofy, unwieldy and untested unit. That is horrible advice.

Maybe you could recommend that somebody TRY using a reasonably sized unit of 3-6 of them before they mortgage the house and completely change their army comp.

Your experience may be great for you, but I don't have your experience and I can't validate anything you've said, and I'm not about to spend $200 for something that I can see on its face is a bad idea. I'm NOT you, I can't play the games you've played, and I'm not going to spend $200 and hours modeling just to recreate the experiences you've had. Not interested. No thanks.

And part of the problem here is you're taking the perspective that somebody has to convince you. I don't care what you think. I think you're way off base. You can have your opinion, that's cool. Can we chill out here?

Lol exaggerate much??? Lets try and stay on topic okay? The OP question is "Are meganobz worth it?"


I think they are worth it for ap2, 2 wounds, and re roll your misses.

Too bad they don't reroll misses then, eh?

Oh really? What does twin linked mean to you then? Are you just trying to be argumentative because if you are its not funny.

You don't have twin-linked Power Klaws.

osirisx69 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
Please give it a rest. If you do well with 10 MANz that's great, no one in their right mind should spend over $200 for that goofy, unwieldy and untested unit. That is horrible advice.

Maybe you could recommend that somebody TRY using a reasonably sized unit of 3-6 of them before they mortgage the house and completely change their army comp.

Your experience may be great for you, but I don't have your experience and I can't validate anything you've said, and I'm not about to spend $200 for something that I can see on its face is a bad idea. I'm NOT you, I can't play the games you've played, and I'm not going to spend $200 and hours modeling just to recreate the experiences you've had. Not interested. No thanks.

And part of the problem here is you're taking the perspective that somebody has to convince you. I don't care what you think. I think you're way off base. You can have your opinion, that's cool. Can we chill out here?

Lol exaggerate much??? Lets try and stay on topic okay? The OP question is "Are meganobz worth it?"


I think they are worth it for ap2, 2 wounds, and re roll your misses.

Too bad they don't reroll misses then, eh?

Oh really? What does twin linked mean to you then? Are you just trying to be argumentative because if you are its not funny.

The way you stated it was deliberately vague as it is in the context of using meganobz for close combat and no one has bothered to mention their nearly non-factor ranged capability because of their inability to overwatch so it is not something we are arguing about since you'll be hopeless outranged by anything worth shooting at. If anything you are the one trying to be argumentative due to your lack of points. You keep changing the goalposts, AGAIN. No one has said Meganobz are not worth it in of themselves. Just that taking a butt ton of them footslogging is something that is not viable. That was what we were arguing.

osirisx69 wrote:


Lol exaggerate much??? Lets try and stay on topic okay? The OP question is "Are meganobz worth it?"


I think they are worth it for ap2, 2 wounds, and re roll your misses.

I'm sorry, what's so exciting about a twin-linked shoota at BS2? Okay, that's 18" range, 2 shots, BS2. You get a 55% chance to hit on a two strength 4 shots with AP value 6. And you can't even overwatch by merit of the slow and purposeful rule.

By contrast, A Terminator, which costs the same amount of points, has a storm bolter, which has 2 shots at 24" range and AP5 and BS4, and he can overwatch.

So its shooting is roundly inferior to an equivalently costed unit.

Second, I was on topic, "are Meganobz worth it," as in, are they worth $200 of my hard-earned cash in order to put together a one-dimensional footslogging deathstar unit with no deepstriking and slow and purposeful? Answer: No.

Why don't you just wait until the next codex until you start getting excited about something that is bound to change in the next codex?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:



Oh really? What does twin linked mean to you then? Are you just trying to be argumentative because if you are its not funny.

You don't have twin-linked Power Klaws.

Mind blown. Maybe that's why, he thinks they have twin-linked power klaws.

Who knew that Meganobz would be such a touchy subject?

I think Meganobz are best used as a tactical nuke. Put 3-5 of them in a trukk or wagon with a MegaBoss and go flat out across the board toward something squishy. It's too risky/slow to footslog such an expensive unit, leave that to the mobs of Boyz.

 TedNugent wrote:
Please give it a rest. If you do well with 10 MANz that's great, no one in their right mind should spend over $200 for that goofy, unwieldy and untested unit. That is horrible advice.

Maybe you could recommend that somebody TRY using a reasonably sized unit of 3-6 of them before they mortgage the house and completely change their army comp.

Your experience may be great for you, but I don't have your experience and I can't validate anything you've said, and I'm not about to spend $200 for something that I can see on its face is a bad idea. I'm NOT you, I can't play the games you've played, and I'm not going to spend $200 and hours modeling just to recreate the experiences you've had. Not interested. No thanks.

And part of the problem here is you're taking the perspective that somebody has to convince you. I don't care what you think. I think you're way off base. You can have your opinion, that's cool. Can we chill out here?

I didn't tell anyone to spend $200. I said it works. And if they want to spend $200, then great. It will work but whoever goes down that path will want advice.

I didn't ask you to validate it because no one on Dakkadakka owes that to you or I. This place is for opinions. and yeah, thanks for letting me have my opinion. Lol. But you can validate what i said. Ask around at www.Warsound.com. Its our local forum. I dont mind. Ask them how they did against that ork army I played. Only one of them beat it so i assume it should not take you long to "validate".

The original poster asked for help in evaluating whether theyt can be used. They can. I explained how. I gave the list I used. I gave the context. theres really nothing more that I can do but answer the question.

Sop spend your $200 on whatever you like. orks have a LOT of ways to win besides Meganobz. But Meganobz are AWESOME and I have zero reservation about that observation after using them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fragile wrote:

Probably the first thing I agree with that you said. But it does not change the fact that your strategy is still very poor.
You want to win with MANz, put them in a Battle Wagon.

Or don't. Either way.

You really are misreading me (in part). I never said the Battle wagon strategy was a lost cause. In fact i espoused NO opinion on the quality of that idea, unlike some. I understand quite clearly how to use the battle wagons( and that would be because its not that complicated).

However... I ALSO said you didn't NEED the battle wagon. And you don't. And I've shown that to ALSO be true. So if YOU cannot do it both ways I understand. But for you to claim it as necessity is to ignore what has already happened.

As for a a Riptide Overcharging its reactor it is a thing of awesome beauty but if that's your reasoning then you must see how futile it is to use the battle wagon in that example because the Battlewagon wont BE there the second round and the guys inside that you prized putting there are gonna get whalloped by the SECOND Riptide as well once popped if the first cant do it, and theyll be far more bunched than *I* would have them as a free moving unit.

It is perhaps fortunate that you HAVE 9 zzap guns and two loota units and so on to limit the riptides time on this earth, don't you think (the whole vacuum thing?)? Reserves are underrated... Like a lot... as a method of simply making things like Riptides half as useful (but yes still useful). Let the Riptide wound itself repeatedly for a round or two while it kills spread out formations worrth 2-16 points per model. ya know? It's fine.

As I said: matchups and terrain also play into this. Forums are terrible for that reason when abstracting. But the bottom line: it can be done either way. Successfully.

Riptides dont take wounds from overcharging. Your thinking of Nova Charging.

Nova charging and Gets Hot can both do it.

I have the old dread mob deal as the core of my ork list. It means that my orks dont work well in 6th and are for casual play only. I don't care much about that as to me orks are more fun than win. So far I have but one meganob, loose from an auction lot, and want to buy more for the fun of it, i like the model, not so hot on the price.

Wonder how many i need, do I run three or four, or more? I cant really afford more and they are mainly for flavour in casual games, but I think they would fit in with the theme.

Yes that does mean footslogger MANz but I don't care too much so long as I get some use out of them

Question is are they at all viable even for casual play in small quantities with kans and assorted green tide orks? I wonder if they will ever reach combat, if they wont then casual theme or not it wont be worth buying the models.

Three in a trukk already work really well, if you like that unit you get another one of three in a trukk.

 TedNugent wrote:
Please give it a rest. If you do well with 10 MANz that's great, no one in their right mind should spend over $200 for that goofy, unwieldy and untested unit. That is horrible advice.

Maybe you could recommend that somebody TRY using a reasonably sized unit of 3-6 of them before they mortgage the house and completely change their army comp.

Your experience may be great for you, but I don't have your experience and I can't validate anything you've said, and I'm not about to spend $200 for something that I can see on its face is a bad idea. I'm NOT you, I can't play the games you've played, and I'm not going to spend $200 and hours modeling just to recreate the experiences you've had. Not interested. No thanks.

And part of the problem here is you're taking the perspective that somebody has to convince you. I don't care what you think. I think you're way off base. You can have your opinion, that's cool. Can we chill out here?

This, so many times. Exalted.

 Jancoran wrote:
Do not try to REdefine what I'm arguing. I am arguing, simnply, that 10 Meganobz will produce and produce well in almost every game they are in and in those they do not, you can make their deaths serve a purpose. Those are TACTICAL considerations.

The hyperbole over how FLAT their faces will be against mobile armies simply isn't true in all cases. It just flat out isn't. My success can be emulated. I'm not that special.

There are numerous things that this forum is ill equipped to handle. Terrain and its efects are ffectively impossible to discuss as are the potential blocked lines of sight. As are the units around the armies in question.

All you can DO is create a plan and adjust as things go wrong. And in ACTUAL fights, I learned to manage 10 Meganobz to crushing victories. CRUSHING victories. But they didn't do it alone.

They will still always do worse than 8 MANz in a naked battlewagon. Even in your army, with your tactics. That's the whole point. There is literally no reason to have them footsloggig, even if they do well that way. Because they are inferior to another options that's basically free.

It's like putting meks with big shootaz in loota units. The unit will still work and you'll probably still win games with it, but a big shoota will always be worse than a deff gun, precision shots or not.

In any case, I am interested to know more tricks to force the opponent to come at me instead of blasting my army from afar.
(for me, thats the core of your strategy, more than just having a bunch of meganobz).
Even if not using Meganobz, it is alway useful.

 Jancoran wrote:


It is perhaps fortunate that you HAVE 9 zzap guns and two loota units and so on to limit the riptides time on this earth, don't you think (the whole vacuum thing?)?

You need on average 54 Loota shots and all your Zzap guns (with ammo runts) to kill a Riptide per turn, assuming it's not just stood out of LoS to abuse JSJ against you. So yeah, you can reliably shoot a Riptide to death in one turn (providing it doesn't get the Nova Charge up), but then your Meganobz eat it. You're honestly advocating trying to outshoot Tau as Orks long enough to get something that moves 6" a turn into a charge position, and you don't see the problem in that?

XC18 wrote:

In any case, I am interested to know more tricks to force the opponent to come at me instead of blasting my army from afar.
(for me, thats the core of your strategy, more than just having a bunch of meganobz).
Even if not using Meganobz, it is alway useful.

Lootas and zzap guyns are hard to ignore. if you fire them enough times the enemy will probably try to do something about it. Thats what i found. Ammo runts a must on those Zzap guns though!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

You need on average 54 Loota shots and all your Zzap guns (with ammo runts) to kill a Riptide per turn, assuming it's not just stood out of LoS to abuse JSJ against you. So yeah, you can reliably shoot a Riptide to death in one turn (providing it doesn't get the Nova Charge up), but then your Meganobz eat it. You're honestly advocating trying to outshoot Tau as Orks long enough to get something that moves 6" a turn into a charge position, and you don't see the problem in that?

If i kill two Riptides, in most lists, thats all of them. Yes, there are crazy lists with more but If I kill two Riptides by round 2, I should be able to use the reserves to do what I need to do. For Tau (and i am a VERY good Tau General) our bigget poblem is being able to get to the OTHER guys objectives safely. It generally only happens briefly before the Kroot get overrun. Most of the Line breaking cant be done by troops in the Tau force. Generally only Fast attacks will and kroot on a lucky day can hold out. So depending on the enemy... you may have to do no MORE than kill the Two Riuptides in order to advance the next 3-4 rounds in RELATIVE safety. So reserve what you cant afford to lose, unleash your fusilade for two rounds and then begin the process of taking objectives.

Every list is different. In MY list which was designed to make these tactics work, I had a boat load of Gretchin that scattered and took up a ton of space. Enemies couldn't get behind me without first wasting their precious round of fire on the little bastards. Quite annoying Im sure. Their alternative targets were: Lootas, which most of their weapons couldn't reach easily, or the Tough 7 Artillery. Needless to say, not great choices and lootas usually won top spot on the list. The War buggies were moving flat out and grabbing terrain for side arcs later( in round 1) so rarely ever a target and i often reserved them anyweays.

So in round 1, the Meganobz were either surrounded by Gretchen or else out of sight where they could advance most safely. Against a pair of Riptides I'd just reserve them if it seemed like a worst case scenario matchup (maybe), secure in the knowledge that I needed only contest by games end anyways and with a lot of bulk to get there.

Once the second round was through, Riptides dispatched, that leaves the rest of the force to deal with. At least one unit of lootas is looking near death by then, but they've done their job. Buggies have blasted a tank or two by then in the side and the orkz, gretchin and Kommandos are now downfield a ways and ready for round 3 charges if they haven't already. Ther enemy isn't moving forward. This is good.

The one army that beat me was an Ork/Necron hybrid. annihilation barges were seemingly unkillable in that game and when my Meganobz were ready to charge BOTH barges and his ork bikerz, I broke. ah fate. Close one.

There are no UNbeatable units or combos BUT there are GREAt tactics for using 10 Meganobz. my personal AVERSION to getting the Meganobz clumped up in a wreckage crater and bombed by Riptides causes me not to prefer having them in the vehicle. i like 10, spread out and very very difficult to target. It was a winning strategy.

You won't kill 2 Riptides on average by round 2 though. Half the time the Tau player gets to go first, Riptides have JSJ and as such can hide out of LoS, and you've only got a max of 9 ammo runts for your Zzap Gunz. Then there's the Nova Charge as well. It's just not reliable enough.

Sometimes that does happen. Yup. And you plan accordingly. How would you adjust for it?

 Jancoran wrote:
Sometimes that does happen. Yup. And you plan accordingly. How would you adjust for it?

By not taking 10 walking Meganobz in the first place.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Sometimes that does happen. Yup. And you plan accordingly. How would you adjust for it?

By not taking 10 walking Meganobz in the first place.

Lol. That just about sums up the last 4 pages very nicely, and it's very good advice.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Sometimes that does happen. Yup. And you plan accordingly. How would you adjust for it?

By not taking 10 walking Meganobz in the first place.

Im glad the Dakka tactics forums are worthwhile.

Poor Jancoren. I feel for you pal. No matter what you write or how well your meganobs have performed in your list ( which I like as you know) this is just becoming a 'they say you say' tactica.

I think the OP has got his answer. He can choose to believe whatever he feels, lol.

Whats best to run alongside MANZ ? Im gonna get back into orks and was thinking manz missiles with shoots boyz trucks and bikers