Are mega nobs worth it?

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**Jidmah**

To prove something, you either have to disprove the opposite or prove that's impossible to get a different result. Writing the word caps is not sufficient.

http://www.3plusplus.net/2011/01/fallacies-i-use-it-and-it-works-for-me/

A friend's girlfriend has an army that relies on two units of ten Flash Gits deep-striking via Warpheads, she just rerolls all results but 'ere we go and somehow always ends up with absolutely erasing half the enemy army with AP1 shots and Captain Badruk comically exploding due to tripple "Get's hot!", despite his gold toof armor and ammo runts.
I don't think we need to discuss the viability of that army despite her impressive win-loss record.

Oh, and all her clan's armor is pink, her flash gits are wearing bowler hats (also pink) and the deff rolla on her battlewagon is coated in glitter.

**Grimskul**

osirisx69 wrote:
Grimskul wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

I've killed deep striking CSM terminators once with my backfield grot's grot blastas before, does this one instance therefore make them a consistently viable anti-terminator unit? Just because it's worked well once for you doesn't mean that you can automatically infer that your setup is as awesome and great as you claim it is, especially since from what we can tell you haven't exactly used it against the best or more experienced of opponents.

Also the fact that you're unwilling to rebuttal against Jidmah and everyone else's very good counter-points by just falling back to your "well it worked for me so you guys are just ignorant" argument doesn't look very good for your position.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

osirisx69 wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

You have one instance of it working. We have many more instances of it not working at all. The conclusion to draw isn't that you're that much better than everyone else.

No, again I have played since 2nd edition and in 6th edition footslogging is just fine. It is PROVEN over and over again. When you are facing 200+ models MOST armies cannot bring enough fire power to stop it. Why do you insist on arguing? We can play by Vassel if you want. Its easy. Just prove you have the ACTUAL models and we can fight. Vassel has the tendency for power hungry 9 year olds to field nothing but cheese so a common practice is to show your army with a Skype or picture.

I have never understood the need for people to lie or mislead to bring others down. Its like a crab mentality or something.

Why is it that he would have to show that he has actual models and not you? Show us your 200+ models that have worked so well for you, the burden of proof is on your end given that if you look at the vast majority of tournament/competitive builds they are all either based on speedy troops (i.e. bikes for SM or Eldar) or in transports like Wave Serpents or Chimeras. There is little to no indication that mass footslogging is the way to go, otherwise Tyranid lists would just run Hormagaunts and Termagants by their lonesome rather than the dual dakka-flyrant + Nidzilla builds. I can ALSO tell you from experience that footslogging is very hard to manage if you have proper terrain as it can funnel your unwieldy hordes into death lanes which you're forced into due to the sheer amount of bodies on the board. What does get to your opponent's side will be severely depleted enough that your threat as a unit is significantly diminished.

what forum are you on? This is not YMTC. There is no burden or proof needed. This is tactics forum and how you play. So stop being asinine and understand for a lot of us ork players footslogging works in our meta. And yes I HAVE shown my models when I play over vassel that's why I said SKYPE!!!!!!!!!!! you krod. The OP asked if MegaNobz are worth it and the answer is YES YES YES. Even IF you cant afford to buy a BW having MegaNobz in your army is worth it.

Didn't you just contradict yourself? You just asked AlmightyWalrus to prove to you he has actual models so you can supposedly prove him wrong in a fight...So even by your logic proof is indeed needed. Especially in a tactics forum where the basis of said tactics is either based upon mathematical proof or from competitive meta. Also being an Ork player myself I am disappointed to see another Ork player being so adamant and childish in this tantrum-like behaviour, we're supposed to be a fun-loving and carefree folk, so what if our stuff is not that competitive? Footslogging armies is not a crime in of itself but to tell others that is on par with the mechanized/speedy meta of today is wrong and is just setting up people for disappointment.

**Jidmah**

Agree, osirisx69 might as well have asked to settle the issue in a Call of Duty match.

**osirisx69**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
osirisx69 wrote:
Grimskul wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

I've killed deep striking CSM terminators once with my backfield grot's grot blastas before, does this one instance therefore make them a consistently viable anti-terminator unit? Just because it's worked well once for you doesn't mean that you can automatically infer that your setup is as awesome and great as you claim it is, especially since from what we can tell you haven't exactly used it against the best or more experienced of opponents.

Also the fact that you're unwilling to rebuttal against Jidmah and everyone else's very good counter-points by just falling back to your "well it worked for me so you guys are just ignorant" argument doesn't look very good for your position.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

osirisx69 wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

You have one instance of it working. We have many more instances of it not working at all. The conclusion to draw isn't that you're that much better than everyone else.

No, again I have played since 2nd edition and in 6th edition footslogging is just fine. It is PROVEN over and over again. When you are facing 200+ models MOST armies cannot bring enough fire power to stop it. Why do you insist on arguing? We can play by Vassel if you want. Its easy. Just prove you have the ACTUAL models and we can fight. Vassel has the tendency for power hungry 9 year olds to field nothing but cheese so a common practice is to show your army with a Skype or picture.

I have never understood the need for people to lie or mislead to bring others down. Its like a crab mentality or something.

Why is it that he would have to show that he has actual models and not you? Show us your 200+ models that have worked so well for you, the burden of proof is on your end given that if you look at the vast majority of tournament/competitive builds they are all either based on speedy troops (i.e. bikes for SM or Eldar) or in transports like Wave Serpents or Chimeras. There is little to no indication that mass footslogging is the way to go, otherwise Tyranid lists would just run Hormagaunts and Termagants by their lonesome rather than the dual dakka-flyrant + Nidzilla builds. I can ALSO tell you from experience that footslogging is very hard to manage if you have proper terrain as it can funnel your unwieldy hordes into death lanes which you're forced into due to the sheer amount of bodies on the board. What does get to your opponent's side will be severely depleted enough that your threat as a unit is significantly diminished.

what forum are you on? This is not YMTC. There is no burden or proof needed. This is tactics forum and how you play. So stop being asinine and understand for a lot of us ork players footslogging works in our meta. And yes I HAVE shown my models when I play over vassel that's why I said SKYPE!!!!!!!!!!! you krod. The OP asked if MegaNobz are worth it and the answer is YES YES YES. Even IF you cant afford to buy a BW having MegaNobz in your army is worth it.

You're the one making a claim, you're the one who has the burden of proof. That's how all arguments work, YMTC or not.

Its not an argument, its YMMV opinion, or a HYWPI opinion.

That's where you have been mistaken. You are having an argument with yourself.

**AlmightyWalrus**

osirisx69 wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
osirisx69 wrote:
Grimskul wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

I've killed deep striking CSM terminators once with my backfield grot's grot blastas before, does this one instance therefore make them a consistently viable anti-terminator unit? Just because it's worked well once for you doesn't mean that you can automatically infer that your setup is as awesome and great as you claim it is, especially since from what we can tell you haven't exactly used it against the best or more experienced of opponents.

Also the fact that you're unwilling to rebuttal against Jidmah and everyone else's very good counter-points by just falling back to your "well it worked for me so you guys are just ignorant" argument doesn't look very good for your position.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

osirisx69 wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

You have one instance of it working. We have many more instances of it not working at all. The conclusion to draw isn't that you're that much better than everyone else.

No, again I have played since 2nd edition and in 6th edition footslogging is just fine. It is PROVEN over and over again. When you are facing 200+ models MOST armies cannot bring enough fire power to stop it. Why do you insist on arguing? We can play by Vassel if you want. Its easy. Just prove you have the ACTUAL models and we can fight. Vassel has the tendency for power hungry 9 year olds to field nothing but cheese so a common practice is to show your army with a Skype or picture.

I have never understood the need for people to lie or mislead to bring others down. Its like a crab mentality or something.

Why is it that he would have to show that he has actual models and not you? Show us your 200+ models that have worked so well for you, the burden of proof is on your end given that if you look at the vast majority of tournament/competitive builds they are all either based on speedy troops (i.e. bikes for SM or Eldar) or in transports like Wave Serpents or Chimeras. There is little to no indication that mass footslogging is the way to go, otherwise Tyranid lists would just run Hormagaunts and Termagants by their lonesome rather than the dual dakka-flyrant + Nidzilla builds. I can ALSO tell you from experience that footslogging is very hard to manage if you have proper terrain as it can funnel your unwieldy hordes into death lanes which you're forced into due to the sheer amount of bodies on the board. What does get to your opponent's side will be severely depleted enough that your threat as a unit is significantly diminished.

what forum are you on? This is not YMTC. There is no burden or proof needed. This is tactics forum and how you play. So stop being asinine and understand for a lot of us ork players footslogging works in our meta. And yes I HAVE shown my models when I play over vassel that's why I said SKYPE!!!!!!!!!!! you krod. The OP asked if MegaNobz are worth it and the answer is YES YES YES. Even IF you cant afford to buy a BW having MegaNobz in your army is worth it.

You're the one making a claim, you're the one who has the burden of proof. That's how all arguments work, YMTC or not.

Its not an argument, its YMMV opinion, or a HYWPI opinion.

That's where you have been mistaken. You are having an argument with yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument

I suggest you read it, because you're arguing that it's proven, while I'm arguing that it isn't.

**Grimskul**

osirisx69 wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
osirisx69 wrote:
Grimskul wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

I've killed deep striking CSM terminators once with my backfield grot's grot blastas before, does this one instance therefore make them a consistently viable anti-terminator unit? Just because it's worked well once for you doesn't mean that you can automatically infer that your setup is as awesome and great as you claim it is, especially since from what we can tell you haven't exactly used it against the best or more experienced of opponents.

Also the fact that you're unwilling to rebuttal against Jidmah and everyone else's very good counter-points by just falling back to your "well it worked for me so you guys are just ignorant" argument doesn't look very good for your position.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

osirisx69 wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

You have one instance of it working. We have many more instances of it not working at all. The conclusion to draw isn't that you're that much better than everyone else.

No, again I have played since 2nd edition and in 6th edition footslogging is just fine. It is PROVEN over and over again. When you are facing 200+ models MOST armies cannot bring enough fire power to stop it. Why do you insist on arguing? We can play by Vassel if you want. Its easy. Just prove you have the ACTUAL models and we can fight. Vassel has the tendency for power hungry 9 year olds to field nothing but cheese so a common practice is to show your army with a Skype or picture.

I have never understood the need for people to lie or mislead to bring others down. Its like a crab mentality or something.

Why is it that he would have to show that he has actual models and not you? Show us your 200+ models that have worked so well for you, the burden of proof is on your end given that if you look at the vast majority of tournament/competitive builds they are all either based on speedy troops (i.e. bikes for SM or Eldar) or in transports like Wave Serpents or Chimeras. There is little to no indication that mass footslogging is the way to go, otherwise Tyranid lists would just run Hormagaunts and Termagants by their lonesome rather than the dual dakka-flyrant + Nidzilla builds. I can ALSO tell you from experience that footslogging is very hard to manage if you have proper terrain as it can funnel your unwieldy hordes into death lanes which you're forced into due to the sheer amount of bodies on the board. What does get to your opponent's side will be severely depleted enough that your threat as a unit is significantly diminished.

what forum are you on? This is not YMTC. There is no burden or proof needed. This is tactics forum and how you play. So stop being asinine and understand for a lot of us ork players footslogging works in our meta. And yes I HAVE shown my models when I play over vassel that's why I said SKYPE!!!!!!!!!!! you krod. The OP asked if MegaNobz are worth it and the answer is YES YES YES. Even IF you cant afford to buy a BW having MegaNobz in your army is worth it.

You're the one making a claim, you're the one who has the burden of proof. That's how all arguments work, YMTC or not.

Its not an argument, its YMMV opinion, or a HYWPI opinion.

That's where you have been mistaken. You are having an argument with yourself.

You do realize arguments and opinions are not mutually exclusive right? You can argue that one's opinion is wrong, which in this case yours arguably is. You've done nothing to support your opinion, then why should we believe your statements as true or factual?

Again not countering our points directly and effectively stating that you're right because you say so is not going to convince anyone, especially with your very rude behaviour.

**osirisx69**

Grimskul wrote:
osirisx69 wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
osirisx69 wrote:
Grimskul wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

I've killed deep striking CSM terminators once with my backfield grot's grot blastas before, does this one instance therefore make them a consistently viable anti-terminator unit? Just because it's worked well once for you doesn't mean that you can automatically infer that your setup is as awesome and great as you claim it is, especially since from what we can tell you haven't exactly used it against the best or more experienced of opponents.

Also the fact that you're unwilling to rebuttal against Jidmah and everyone else's very good counter-points by just falling back to your "well it worked for me so you guys are just ignorant" argument doesn't look very good for your position.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

osirisx69 wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

You have one instance of it working. We have many more instances of it not working at all. The conclusion to draw isn't that you're that much better than everyone else.

No, again I have played since 2nd edition and in 6th edition footslogging is just fine. It is PROVEN over and over again. When you are facing 200+ models MOST armies cannot bring enough fire power to stop it. Why do you insist on arguing? We can play by Vassel if you want. Its easy. Just prove you have the ACTUAL models and we can fight. Vassel has the tendency for power hungry 9 year olds to field nothing but cheese so a common practice is to show your army with a Skype or picture.

I have never understood the need for people to lie or mislead to bring others down. Its like a crab mentality or something.

Why is it that he would have to show that he has actual models and not you? Show us your 200+ models that have worked so well for you, the burden of proof is on your end given that if you look at the vast majority of tournament/competitive builds they are all either based on speedy troops (i.e. bikes for SM or Eldar) or in transports like Wave Serpents or Chimeras. There is little to no indication that mass footslogging is the way to go, otherwise Tyranid lists would just run Hormagaunts and Termagants by their lonesome rather than the dual dakka-flyrant + Nidzilla builds. I can ALSO tell you from experience that footslogging is very hard to manage if you have proper terrain as it can funnel your unwieldy hordes into death lanes which you're forced into due to the sheer amount of bodies on the board. What does get to your opponent's side will be severely depleted enough that your threat as a unit is significantly diminished.

what forum are you on? This is not YMTC. There is no burden or proof needed. This is tactics forum and how you play. So stop being asinine and understand for a lot of us ork players footslogging works in our meta. And yes I HAVE shown my models when I play over vassel that's why I said SKYPE!!!!!!!!!!! you krod. The OP asked if MegaNobz are worth it and the answer is YES YES YES. Even IF you cant afford to buy a BW having MegaNobz in your army is worth it.

You're the one making a claim, you're the one who has the burden of proof. That's how all arguments work, YMTC or not.

Its not an argument, its YMMV opinion, or a HYWPI opinion.

That's where you have been mistaken. You are having an argument with yourself.

You do realize arguments and opinions are not mutually exclusive right? You can argue that one's opinion is wrong, which in this case yours arguably is. You've done nothing to support your opinion, then why should we believe your statements as true or factual?

Again not countering our points directly and effectively stating that you're right because you say so is not going to convince anyone, especially with your very rude behaviour.

The only rude one is the people stating an opinion is wrong. I have proven my point in MY meta games. That's it nothing more. I asked to PROVE his army by Skype (wow I am sure I typed something to that effect, wait let me re-read my own post YEP that's what I typed) which if anyone didn't know Skye is a 2!!!!!!!!!! way conference so we would BOTH prove our list that way we don't mislead the other players in thinking they have the models when they don't. Its a simple function I am sure you can figure it out.

**Grimskul**

osirisx69 wrote:
Grimskul wrote:
osirisx69 wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
osirisx69 wrote:
Grimskul wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

I've killed deep striking CSM terminators once with my backfield grot's grot blastas before, does this one instance therefore make them a consistently viable anti-terminator unit? Just because it's worked well once for you doesn't mean that you can automatically infer that your setup is as awesome and great as you claim it is, especially since from what we can tell you haven't exactly used it against the best or more experienced of opponents.

Also the fact that you're unwilling to rebuttal against Jidmah and everyone else's very good counter-points by just falling back to your "well it worked for me so you guys are just ignorant" argument doesn't look very good for your position.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

osirisx69 wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

You have one instance of it working. We have many more instances of it not working at all. The conclusion to draw isn't that you're that much better than everyone else.

No, again I have played since 2nd edition and in 6th edition footslogging is just fine. It is PROVEN over and over again. When you are facing 200+ models MOST armies cannot bring enough fire power to stop it. Why do you insist on arguing? We can play by Vassel if you want. Its easy. Just prove you have the ACTUAL models and we can fight. Vassel has the tendency for power hungry 9 year olds to field nothing but cheese so a common practice is to show your army with a Skype or picture.

I have never understood the need for people to lie or mislead to bring others down. Its like a crab mentality or something.

Why is it that he would have to show that he has actual models and not you? Show us your 200+ models that have worked so well for you, the burden of proof is on your end given that if you look at the vast majority of tournament/competitive builds they are all either based on speedy troops (i.e. bikes for SM or Eldar) or in transports like Wave Serpents or Chimeras. There is little to no indication that mass footslogging is the way to go, otherwise Tyranid lists would just run Hormagaunts and Termagants by their lonesome rather than the dual dakka-flyrant + Nidzilla builds. I can ALSO tell you from experience that footslogging is very hard to manage if you have proper terrain as it can funnel your unwieldy hordes into death lanes which you're forced into due to the sheer amount of bodies on the board. What does get to your opponent's side will be severely depleted enough that your threat as a unit is significantly diminished.

what forum are you on? This is not YMTC. There is no burden or proof needed. This is tactics forum and how you play. So stop being asinine and understand for a lot of us ork players footslogging works in our meta. And yes I HAVE shown my models when I play over vassel that's why I said SKYPE!!!!!!!!!!! you krod. The OP asked if MegaNobz are worth it and the answer is YES YES YES. Even IF you cant afford to buy a BW having MegaNobz in your army is worth it.

You're the one making a claim, you're the one who has the burden of proof. That's how all arguments work, YMTC or not.

Its not an argument, its YMMV opinion, or a HYWPI opinion.

That's where you have been mistaken. You are having an argument with yourself.

You do realize arguments and opinions are not mutually exclusive right? You can argue that one's opinion is wrong, which in this case yours arguably is. You've done nothing to support your opinion, then why should we believe your statements as true or factual?

Again not countering our points directly and effectively stating that you're right because you say so is not going to convince anyone, especially with your very rude behaviour.

The only rude one is the people stating an opinion is wrong. I have proven my point in MY meta games. That's it nothing more. I asked to PROVE his army by Skype (wow I am sure I typed something to that effect, wait let me re-read my own post YEP that's what I typed) which if anyone didn't know Skye is a 2!!!!!!!!!! way conference so we would BOTH prove our list that way we don't mislead the other players in thinking they have the models when they don't. Its a simple function I am sure you can figure it out.

So you admit that there is need for proof after all then. As well as that there is an argument involving us against you going on. No offense but you are going all over the place changing goalposts of whatever you are stating and the reason why I said you were rude is because in that comment about Skype you called me a "krod" and "asinine" even though I was just pointing out a legitimate fallacy in your "logic". You having to pull an ad hominem against me is just signs of you lacking evidence to back your claim as you still can't refute the points we have made. You're still going on saying "it worked when I did it therefore it is true" which Jidmah has already pointed out with his link does not make a valid comeback.

**osirisx69**

Grimskul wrote:
osirisx69 wrote:
Grimskul wrote:
osirisx69 wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
osirisx69 wrote:
Grimskul wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

I've killed deep striking CSM terminators once with my backfield grot's grot blastas before, does this one instance therefore make them a consistently viable anti-terminator unit? Just because it's worked well once for you doesn't mean that you can automatically infer that your setup is as awesome and great as you claim it is, especially since from what we can tell you haven't exactly used it against the best or more experienced of opponents.

Also the fact that you're unwilling to rebuttal against Jidmah and everyone else's very good counter-points by just falling back to your "well it worked for me so you guys are just ignorant" argument doesn't look very good for your position.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

osirisx69 wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

You have one instance of it working. We have many more instances of it not working at all. The conclusion to draw isn't that you're that much better than everyone else.

No, again I have played since 2nd edition and in 6th edition footslogging is just fine. It is PROVEN over and over again. When you are facing 200+ models MOST armies cannot bring enough fire power to stop it. Why do you insist on arguing? We can play by Vassel if you want. Its easy. Just prove you have the ACTUAL models and we can fight. Vassel has the tendency for power hungry 9 year olds to field nothing but cheese so a common practice is to show your army with a Skype or picture.

I have never understood the need for people to lie or mislead to bring others down. Its like a crab mentality or something.

Why is it that he would have to show that he has actual models and not you? Show us your 200+ models that have worked so well for you, the burden of proof is on your end given that if you look at the vast majority of tournament/competitive builds they are all either based on speedy troops (i.e. bikes for SM or Eldar) or in transports like Wave Serpents or Chimeras. There is little to no indication that mass footslogging is the way to go, otherwise Tyranid lists would just run Hormagaunts and Termagants by their lonesome rather than the dual dakka-flyrant + Nidzilla builds. I can ALSO tell you from experience that footslogging is very hard to manage if you have proper terrain as it can funnel your unwieldy hordes into death lanes which you're forced into due to the sheer amount of bodies on the board. What does get to your opponent's side will be severely depleted enough that your threat as a unit is significantly diminished.

what forum are you on? This is not YMTC. There is no burden or proof needed. This is tactics forum and how you play. So stop being asinine and understand for a lot of us ork players footslogging works in our meta. And yes I HAVE shown my models when I play over vassel that's why I said SKYPE!!!!!!!!!!! you krod. The OP asked if MegaNobz are worth it and the answer is YES YES YES. Even IF you cant afford to buy a BW having MegaNobz in your army is worth it.

You're the one making a claim, you're the one who has the burden of proof. That's how all arguments work, YMTC or not.

Its not an argument, its YMMV opinion, or a HYWPI opinion.

That's where you have been mistaken. You are having an argument with yourself.

You do realize arguments and opinions are not mutually exclusive right? You can argue that one's opinion is wrong, which in this case yours arguably is. You've done nothing to support your opinion, then why should we believe your statements as true or factual?

Again not countering our points directly and effectively stating that you're right because you say so is not going to convince anyone, especially with your very rude behaviour.

The only rude one is the people stating an opinion is wrong. I have proven my point in MY meta games. That's it nothing more. I asked to PROVE his army by Skype (wow I am sure I typed something to that effect, wait let me re-read my own post YEP that's what I typed) which if anyone didn't know Skye is a 2!!!!!!!!!! way conference so we would BOTH prove our list that way we don't mislead the other players in thinking they have the models when they don't. Its a simple function I am sure you can figure it out.

So you admit that there is need for proof after all then. As well as that there is an argument involving us against you going on. No offense but you are going all over the place changing goalposts of whatever you are stating and the reason why I said you were rude is because in that comment about Skype you called me a "krod" and "asinine" even though I was just pointing out a legitimate fallacy in your "logic". You having to pull an ad hominem against me is just signs of you lacking evidence to back your claim as you still can't refute the points we have made. You're still going on saying "it worked when I did it therefore it is true" which Jidmah has already pointed out with his link does not make a valid comeback.

LMAO no goal post moved. My original statement is true. MegaNobz are worth it. How hard is that for you to understand? I have all the evidence I need in the games I have played. Why are you so threatened? Why must you insist you logic is correct in MY games when clearly its not and you have no proof. Why must you still state opinions as facts? I have GREAT success with orks and will always have great success. Why is that so bad for you?

**Grimskul**

osirisx69 wrote:
Grimskul wrote:
osirisx69 wrote:
Grimskul wrote:
osirisx69 wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
osirisx69 wrote:
Grimskul wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

I've killed deep striking CSM terminators once with my backfield grot's grot blastas before, does this one instance therefore make them a consistently viable anti-terminator unit? Just because it's worked well once for you doesn't mean that you can automatically infer that your setup is as awesome and great as you claim it is, especially since from what we can tell you haven't exactly used it against the best or more experienced of opponents.

Also the fact that you're unwilling to rebuttal against Jidmah and everyone else's very good counter-points by just falling back to your "well it worked for me so you guys are just ignorant" argument doesn't look very good for your position.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

osirisx69 wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

You have one instance of it working. We have many more instances of it not working at all. The conclusion to draw isn't that you're that much better than everyone else.

No, again I have played since 2nd edition and in 6th edition footslogging is just fine. It is PROVEN over and over again. When you are facing 200+ models MOST armies cannot bring enough fire power to stop it. Why do you insist on arguing? We can play by Vassel if you want. Its easy. Just prove you have the ACTUAL models and we can fight. Vassel has the tendency for power hungry 9 year olds to field nothing but cheese so a common practice is to show your army with a Skype or picture.

I have never understood the need for people to lie or mislead to bring others down. Its like a crab mentality or something.

Why is it that he would have to show that he has actual models and not you? Show us your 200+ models that have worked so well for you, the burden of proof is on your end given that if you look at the vast majority of tournament/competitive builds they are all either based on speedy troops (i.e. bikes for SM or Eldar) or in transports like Wave Serpents or Chimeras. There is little to no indication that mass footslogging is the way to go, otherwise Tyranid lists would just run Hormagaunts and Termagants by their lonesome rather than the dual dakka-flyrant + Nidzilla builds. I can ALSO tell you from experience that footslogging is very hard to manage if you have proper terrain as it can funnel your unwieldy hordes into death lanes which you're forced into due to the sheer amount of bodies on the board. What does get to your opponent's side will be severely depleted enough that your threat as a unit is significantly diminished.

what forum are you on? This is not YMTC. There is no burden or proof needed. This is tactics forum and how you play. So stop being asinine and understand for a lot of us ork players footslogging works in our meta. And yes I HAVE shown my models when I play over vassel that's why I said SKYPE!!!!!!!!!!! you krod. The OP asked if MegaNobz are worth it and the answer is YES YES YES. Even IF you cant afford to buy a BW having MegaNobz in your army is worth it.

You're the one making a claim, you're the one who has the burden of proof. That's how all arguments work, YMTC or not.

Its not an argument, its YMMV opinion, or a HYWPI opinion.

That's where you have been mistaken. You are having an argument with yourself.

You do realize arguments and opinions are not mutually exclusive right? You can argue that one's opinion is wrong, which in this case yours arguably is. You've done nothing to support your opinion, then why should we believe your statements as true or factual?

Again not countering our points directly and effectively stating that you're right because you say so is not going to convince anyone, especially with your very rude behaviour.

The only rude one is the people stating an opinion is wrong. I have proven my point in MY meta games. That's it nothing more. I asked to PROVE his army by Skype (wow I am sure I typed something to that effect, wait let me re-read my own post YEP that's what I typed) which if anyone didn't know Skye is a 2!!!!!!!!!! way conference so we would BOTH prove our list that way we don't mislead the other players in thinking they have the models when they don't. Its a simple function I am sure you can figure it out.

So you admit that there is need for proof after all then. As well as that there is an argument involving us against you going on. No offense but you are going all over the place changing goalposts of whatever you are stating and the reason why I said you were rude is because in that comment about Skype you called me a "krod" and "asinine" even though I was just pointing out a legitimate fallacy in your "logic". You having to pull an ad hominem against me is just signs of you lacking evidence to back your claim as you still can't refute the points we have made. You're still going on saying "it worked when I did it therefore it is true" which Jidmah has already pointed out with his link does not make a valid comeback.

LMAO no goal post moved. My original statement is true. MegaNobz are worth it. How hard is that for you to understand? I have all the evidence I need in the games I have played. Why are you so threatened? Why must you insist you logic is correct in MY games when clearly its not and you have no proof. Why must you still state opinions as facts? I have GREAT success with orks and will always have great success. Why is that so bad for you?

Ironic, because you just moved the goalpost...again. We never argued that taking Meganobz wasn't worth it. Merely that taking it as a full or close to full-sized (or even minimum sized) unit without a battlewagon was NOT worth it due to their lack of mobility and priciness.

*sigh* Welp, looks I have to revert to summing up another thread with a beaver, as is customary for us Canadians.

**osirisx69**

Grimskul wrote:
osirisx69 wrote:
Grimskul wrote:
osirisx69 wrote:
Grimskul wrote:
osirisx69 wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
osirisx69 wrote:
Grimskul wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

I've killed deep striking CSM terminators once with my backfield grot's grot blastas before, does this one instance therefore make them a consistently viable anti-terminator unit? Just because it's worked well once for you doesn't mean that you can automatically infer that your setup is as awesome and great as you claim it is, especially since from what we can tell you haven't exactly used it against the best or more experienced of opponents.

Also the fact that you're unwilling to rebuttal against Jidmah and everyone else's very good counter-points by just falling back to your "well it worked for me so you guys are just ignorant" argument doesn't look very good for your position.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

osirisx69 wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

You have one instance of it working. We have many more instances of it not working at all. The conclusion to draw isn't that you're that much better than everyone else.

No, again I have played since 2nd edition and in 6th edition footslogging is just fine. It is PROVEN over and over again. When you are facing 200+ models MOST armies cannot bring enough fire power to stop it. Why do you insist on arguing? We can play by Vassel if you want. Its easy. Just prove you have the ACTUAL models and we can fight. Vassel has the tendency for power hungry 9 year olds to field nothing but cheese so a common practice is to show your army with a Skype or picture.

I have never understood the need for people to lie or mislead to bring others down. Its like a crab mentality or something.

Why is it that he would have to show that he has actual models and not you? Show us your 200+ models that have worked so well for you, the burden of proof is on your end given that if you look at the vast majority of tournament/competitive builds they are all either based on speedy troops (i.e. bikes for SM or Eldar) or in transports like Wave Serpents or Chimeras. There is little to no indication that mass footslogging is the way to go, otherwise Tyranid lists would just run Hormagaunts and Termagants by their lonesome rather than the dual dakka-flyrant + Nidzilla builds. I can ALSO tell you from experience that footslogging is very hard to manage if you have proper terrain as it can funnel your unwieldy hordes into death lanes which you're forced into due to the sheer amount of bodies on the board. What does get to your opponent's side will be severely depleted enough that your threat as a unit is significantly diminished.

what forum are you on? This is not YMTC. There is no burden or proof needed. This is tactics forum and how you play. So stop being asinine and understand for a lot of us ork players footslogging works in our meta. And yes I HAVE shown my models when I play over vassel that's why I said SKYPE!!!!!!!!!!! you krod. The OP asked if MegaNobz are worth it and the answer is YES YES YES. Even IF you cant afford to buy a BW having MegaNobz in your army is worth it.

You're the one making a claim, you're the one who has the burden of proof. That's how all arguments work, YMTC or not.

Its not an argument, its YMMV opinion, or a HYWPI opinion.

That's where you have been mistaken. You are having an argument with yourself.

You do realize arguments and opinions are not mutually exclusive right? You can argue that one's opinion is wrong, which in this case yours arguably is. You've done nothing to support your opinion, then why should we believe your statements as true or factual?

Again not countering our points directly and effectively stating that you're right because you say so is not going to convince anyone, especially with your very rude behaviour.

The only rude one is the people stating an opinion is wrong. I have proven my point in MY meta games. That's it nothing more. I asked to PROVE his army by Skype (wow I am sure I typed something to that effect, wait let me re-read my own post YEP that's what I typed) which if anyone didn't know Skye is a 2!!!!!!!!!! way conference so we would BOTH prove our list that way we don't mislead the other players in thinking they have the models when they don't. Its a simple function I am sure you can figure it out.

So you admit that there is need for proof after all then. As well as that there is an argument involving us against you going on. No offense but you are going all over the place changing goalposts of whatever you are stating and the reason why I said you were rude is because in that comment about Skype you called me a "krod" and "asinine" even though I was just pointing out a legitimate fallacy in your "logic". You having to pull an ad hominem against me is just signs of you lacking evidence to back your claim as you still can't refute the points we have made. You're still going on saying "it worked when I did it therefore it is true" which Jidmah has already pointed out with his link does not make a valid comeback.

LMAO no goal post moved. My original statement is true. MegaNobz are worth it. How hard is that for you to understand? I have all the evidence I need in the games I have played. Why are you so threatened? Why must you insist you logic is correct in MY games when clearly its not and you have no proof. Why must you still state opinions as facts? I have GREAT success with orks and will always have great success. Why is that so bad for you?

Ironic, because you just moved the goalpost...again. We never argued that taking Meganobz wasn't worth it. Merely that taking it as a full or close to full-sized (or even minimum sized) unit without a battlewagon was NOT worth it due to their lack of mobility and priciness.

*sigh* Welp, looks I have to revert to summing up another thread with a beaver, as is customary for us Canadians.

The fact that you can't read that I clearly said IT IS worth it in my meta games shows you are the beaver and are now fully ignored....... Congratz to making the list

. For the rest, if you go back and read my post a full squad of meganobz covered by grots is worth taking. The grots can offer cover and by the orks second turn you should be close enough to charge if you have played the game right. I use my BW's for 15 man burnas which offer a HUGE distraction for the manz. YMMV of course.

**Yisali**

I have seen Nobz without a BW grind through SpaceMarines on foot so why is there such hate? Whats weird is there is an "argument" about this in tactics forum. Its all opinion anyways, cant we all just get along!?!?

**Fragile**

Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

Congratulations. It sounds like your doing good with your tactics vs those people you play with. Perhaps you should broaden your playing experience and see how they do against better opponents before you try telling everyone how wrong they are.

Most armies I play against would have not problems wiping that squad, but honestly since they are not a threat until round 4 or later, most would just ignore them.

**Yisali**

Fragile wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

Congratulations. It sounds like your doing good with your tactics vs those people you play with. Perhaps you should broaden your playing experience and see how they do against better opponents before you try telling everyone how wrong they are.

Most armies I play against would have not problems wiping that squad, but honestly since they are not a threat until round 4 or later, most would just ignore them.

Okay so this post is the one that confuses me. Why wouldn't they be a threat until turn 4? I understand they have SnP and I know how that works. So if they move 6 inches and then the other army moves 6 inches plus the other army runs then now they are only about 8 inches apart right? Unless you are stating you never move your army?

**osirisx69**

Yisali wrote:
Fragile wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

Congratulations. It sounds like your doing good with your tactics vs those people you play with. Perhaps you should broaden your playing experience and see how they do against better opponents before you try telling everyone how wrong they are.

Most armies I play against would have not problems wiping that squad, but honestly since they are not a threat until round 4 or later, most would just ignore them.

Okay so this post is the one that confuses me. Why wouldn't they be a threat until turn 4? I understand they have SnP and I know how that works. So if they move 6 inches and then the other army moves 6 inches plus the other army runs then now they are only about 8 inches apart right? Unless you are stating you never move your army?

That's correct. Around ork turn 2 the nobz would be in striking distance. I am not understand why it takes 4 turns either.

**AlmightyWalrus**

osirisx69 wrote:
Yisali wrote:
Fragile wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

Congratulations. It sounds like your doing good with your tactics vs those people you play with. Perhaps you should broaden your playing experience and see how they do against better opponents before you try telling everyone how wrong they are.

Most armies I play against would have not problems wiping that squad, but honestly since they are not a threat until round 4 or later, most would just ignore them.

Okay so this post is the one that confuses me. Why wouldn't they be a threat until turn 4? I understand they have SnP and I know how that works. So if they move 6 inches and then the other army moves 6 inches plus the other army runs then now they are only about 8 inches apart right? Unless you are stating you never move your army?

That's correct. Around ork turn 2 the nobz would be in striking distance. I am not understand why it takes 4 turns either.

Wait, are you assuming that the other army would run straight for the Meganobz? Because if you are, you might want to come back to reality. Of course they're going to murder pretty much anything if you just run straight into them. You don't, though, you back up and shoot them, then move around them because they can't move more than 6" a turn.

**osirisx69**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
osirisx69 wrote:
Yisali wrote:
Fragile wrote:
Jancoran wrote:
yeah we can go back and forth but heres a reality: 10 Meganobz on foot works fine and has been PROVEN to work fine, assuming competence on both sides of the table.

People can SAY its not true but when I guy goes and kicks ASS actually doing it, I think its say to say the naysayers just haven't figured out how yet. And the naysayers probably should try it.

Congratulations. It sounds like your doing good with your tactics vs those people you play with. Perhaps you should broaden your playing experience and see how they do against better opponents before you try telling everyone how wrong they are.

Most armies I play against would have not problems wiping that squad, but honestly since they are not a threat until round 4 or later, most would just ignore them.

Okay so this post is the one that confuses me. Why wouldn't they be a threat until turn 4? I understand they have SnP and I know how that works. So if they move 6 inches and then the other army moves 6 inches plus the other army runs then now they are only about 8 inches apart right? Unless you are stating you never move your army?

That's correct. Around ork turn 2 the nobz would be in striking distance. I am not understand why it takes 4 turns either.

Wait, are you assuming that the other army would run straight for the Meganobz? Because if you are, you might want to come back to reality. Of course they're going to murder pretty much anything if you just run straight into them. You don't, though, you back up and shoot them, then move around them because they can't move more than 6" a turn.

Nope, I am watching the army move forward to take an objective or get into cover. I have seen players move back and try to shoot and they just end up wasting there shots and never get the primary objectives.

**Yisali**

I have never seen an army just sit and not move some forward. I guess you could win that way if you had all the objectives on your own table edge. *shrug*

**Fragile**

Yisali wrote:
I have never seen an army just sit and not move some forward. I guess you could win that way if you had all the objectives on your own table edge. *shrug*

There are lots of armies that do not move forward until late game. They do not need to control, simply contest your objectives.

To assume that someone will blindly walk forward into your super unit is really silly. I can easily move forward while flanking that same unit. At the end of round 2, you still cannot charge the enemy if they have not moved from their deployment zone. If you unit is so scary, I am sure that they will be backpedalling to keep you in shooting range while staying out of charge range. Most likely they will simply go around that unit.

**Overlord Thraka**

I've found in low point games they are some of the nastiest things on the battlefield. You opponent won't much expect to see a battle wagon krammed full of 2+ armor in a 1000 point game. Take a warboss with em and that's half your troops. take 60 points of boyz as filler and you gotz yerself a right nasty army

**Jancoran**

Folks, this is getting needlessly complicated. There are generals here who can teach you how to make it work. HERE. NOW.

So those who WANT to learn (which includes the Original Poster), read from those who know how and ignore the defeatists.

Defeatists: Stop trying to claim "theory" on things that have had many successful results. If an ork NOOB like me can make it work with the hodge podge of models my friend could locate in his 2E collection, then the ork veterans who play it normally damn well can teach you how to do it. As can I.

My posts have good suggestions on how. Other people have posted some wisdom on how. Learn from them if you don't choose to learn from me.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Jancoran wrote:

My posts have good suggestions on how. Other people have posted some wisdom on how. Learn from them if you don't choose to learn from me.

The thing is, your advice just doesn't hold up.

Examples:

A Command Squad on bikes with grav-guns (fairly common unit, manouverable enough to get into range easily) shoots your Meganobz. 15 shots, 10 hits, 8.333... wounds, 5.555... wounds after your Grot-provided cover save. You've lost 2 Meganobz and taken a wound on one of them. When it's your turn you're 18" away, which means you need a

on your charge distance if you want to catch the Bikers. If you don't catch them, they scoot away and keep shooting you, ad nauseum. That's not even taking into account the other bike units in a typical bike list. Emperor help you if you're up against Gravturions with Tigurius. That's 6 Meganobz in one turn from their shooting alone.

You face an Eldar list. The Wave Serpents remove your Grot Screen, then you take a Wraithknight's shooting to the face. None of them will be caught by your 6"-a-turn Deathstar.

You face a Tau list. They don't care about your Grot screen and shoot your Meganobz with Riptides ignoring cover, or Deep Strike their O'vesastar and pour more melta than God into your Deathstar, and then JSJ away from you.

You face Dark Eldar. You never catch them, they pour dakka into you from highly mobile platforms, you die.

You face Daemons. Lol 2++ rerollable.

You face Dark Angels. They have TH/SS, you lose even if you charge them.

You face Necrons, you can't kill their fliers reliably.

You face IG, Medusae and Vendettas happen.

And so on, and so forth.

**Grimskul**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Jancoran wrote:

My posts have good suggestions on how. Other people have posted some wisdom on how. Learn from them if you don't choose to learn from me.

The thing is, your advice just doesn't hold up.

Examples:

A Command Squad on bikes with grav-guns (fairly common unit, manouverable enough to get into range easily) shoots your Meganobz. 15 shots, 10 hits, 8.333... wounds, 5.555... wounds after your Grot-provided cover save. You've lost 2 Meganobz and taken a wound on one of them. When it's your turn you're 18" away, which means you need a on your charge distance if you want to catch the Bikers. If you don't catch them, they scoot away and keep shooting you, ad nauseum. That's not even taking into account the other bike units in a typical bike list. Emperor help you if you're up against Gravturions with Tigurius. That's 6 Meganobz in one turn from their shooting alone.

You face an Eldar list. The Wave Serpents remove your Grot Screen, then you take a Wraithknight's shooting to the face. None of them will be caught by your 6"-a-turn Deathstar.

You face a Tau list. They don't care about your Grot screen and shoot your Meganobz with Riptides ignoring cover, or Deep Strike their O'vesastar and pour more melta than God into your Deathstar, and then JSJ away from you.

You face Dark Eldar. You never catch them, they pour dakka into you from highly mobile platforms, you die.

You face Daemons. Lol 2++ rerollable.

You face Dark Angels. They have TH/SS, you lose even if you charge them.

You face Necrons, you can't kill their fliers reliably.

You face IG, Medusae and Vendettas happen.

And so on, and so forth.

Honestly at this point you might want to save your breath against these guys. They have been repeating themselves over and over unceasingly the past 3 pages regardless of the points we bring up. They just keep screaming the same statement of "I did it and won ergo I am right you are wrong" despite us having already shown how that this isn't sufficient enough as evidence. One of them even ignored me. Hopefully the OP can figure it out himself from the stuff we presented. We've done our duty, if they won't listen to reason there's nothing we can do.

**G00fySmiley**

the biggest argument I would have against footslogging mega nobz is this... find me a list that uses them that has placed well in a tournament 6th edition tournament... spoiler alert this is going to be a pretty futile search (at least from all the ork lists i have seen do well in tournaments beyond beer and pretzel leagues) honestly is somebody brings footslogging meganobz against any of my armies i would be so overjoyed to see it i might even give them something to charge before murdering them at my convenience

**Grimskul**

G00fySmiley wrote:
the biggest argument I would have against footslogging mega nobz is this... find me a list that uses them that has placed well in a tournament 6th edition tournament... spoiler alert this is going to be a pretty futile search (at least from all the ork lists i have seen do well in tournaments beyond beer and pretzel leagues) honestly is somebody brings footslogging meganobz against any of my armies i would be so overjoyed to see it i might even give them something to charge before murdering them at my convenience

Me, amongst the other so called "defeatists" have already pointed this out quite poignantly. They disregard the competitive meta and claim the one they play in is the only one that matters given that it worked for them there. They don't seem to realize how small of a pond they're playing in compared to the big leagues, especially player-skill wise.

**Hypnotic**

OK so I actually thought I would give this a try and see how it went so over the was week i played 3 1999pt games and took 9 MANZ (i don't have 10 models) with no transport just to see how effective they could be. Played Marines twice and Dark Eldar. 2 out of 3 games the MANZ succesfully held their objective and never looked like being moved, HOWEVER, the remaining 1600ish pts of stuff got totally wiped and then with First blood and Slay the warlord it was Good Night Irene. Marines hung back and lascannoned and Heavy Plasma Gunned the MANZ down till they bolted. DE just used dark lances to pick me off.

So I do agree they are a very solid unit that is hard to shift. 10 x 2W 2+ guys are bound to be. BUT if that is all you have left you can't do much from outside 18". I think the cost of 400 odd pts to hold one objective just doesn't quite justify it.

In other games i take a wagon with 3-5 MANZ and a MegaBoss in it. I must say if i can reach something with that they will usually die. Plus i cannot tell you how many times the bosspole has stopped them running.

I think your tactic has some merit however its overly expensive and the results of it coming off succesfuly are pretty minor. A 40pt GTG squad of Grots works better at objective camping. It leaves 1960pts of other stuff to go forward.

**Fragile**

Yes, its a very huge difference between walking 6" turn 1, and moving 18" in a Wagon Turn 1.

Then Turn 2.. walking you are at the middle of the field. In a Wagon you move another 6", disembark 6" then can charge up to 12".

If you going to spend that many points on a unit, it needs to do more than babysit an objective.

**Jidmah**

G00fySmiley wrote:
the biggest argument I would have against footslogging mega nobz is this... find me a list that uses them that has placed well in a tournament 6th edition tournament... spoiler alert this is going to be a pretty futile search (at least from all the ork lists i have seen do well in tournaments beyond beer and pretzel leagues) honestly is somebody brings footslogging meganobz against any of my armies i would be so overjoyed to see it i might even give them something to charge before murdering them at my convenience

Actually, the biggest argument against footslogging nobz is that you can just drop two for a battlewagen that takes no FOC, enables stacking skorcha shenanigans, adds a lot more survivability than two MANz, makes them immune to psychic powers and tripples their speed. It literally has no downside, since they shrug off any wounds from explosions as well.

**Jancoran**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Jancoran wrote:

My posts have good suggestions on how. Other people have posted some wisdom on how. Learn from them if you don't choose to learn from me.

The thing is, your advice just doesn't hold up.

Examples:

A Command Squad on bikes with grav-guns (fairly common unit, manouverable enough to get into range easily) shoots your Meganobz. 15 shots, 10 hits, 8.333... wounds, 5.555... wounds after your Grot-provided cover save. You've lost 2 Meganobz and taken a wound on one of them. When it's your turn you're 18" away, which means you need a on your charge distance if you want to catch the Bikers. If you don't catch them, they scoot away and keep shooting you, ad nauseum. That's not even taking into account the other bike units in a typical bike list. Emperor help you if you're up against Gravturions with Tigurius. That's 6 Meganobz in one turn from their shooting alone.

You face an Eldar list. The Wave Serpents remove your Grot Screen, then you take a Wraithknight's shooting to the face. None of them will be caught by your 6"-a-turn Deathstar.

You face a Tau list. They don't care about your Grot screen and shoot your Meganobz with Riptides ignoring cover, or Deep Strike their O'vesastar and pour more melta than God into your Deathstar, and then JSJ away from you.

You face Dark Eldar. You never catch them, they pour dakka into you from highly mobile platforms, you die.

You face Daemons. Lol 2++ rerollable.

You face Dark Angels. They have TH/SS, you lose even if you charge them.

You face Necrons, you can't kill their fliers reliably.

You face IG, Medusae and Vendettas happen.

And so on, and so forth.

Hyperbole isn't an argument. Pointing out that if i take a Rhino it might get killed by a lascannon isnt an argument against Rhinos. Telling me a WraithKnight can kill my Chaos lord in close vombat ALSO isn't an argument against a Chaos Lord in the list.

So if you want to state the obvious, which is that 10 Meganobz on foot can be killed EVENTUALLY and SOMEHOW, continue on. But we already knew that.

What you don;t know is how to win with them. THAt is the skill worth discussing. It's also worth discussing when its 100% okay to LET them die for the greater good. However, someone who says "nuh uh not Wave Serpents because Eye of Night" isn't really arguing. You're just cataloguing things that can kill them which is...pointless. Because last time i checked, everything could be killed.

So 10 Meganobz has been done. Successfully. If you want to know how, great. If not: great also. This has nothing to do with one on one matchups in a vacuum. units arent IN vacuums.

**Jidmah**

However, pointing out that a ten rhinos might get killed by a lascannon is an argument against rhinos.

We're talking about a 450 point unit here, and everything he listed is cheaper - even the centurions+tigurius.

Also note the difference between using a mediocre unit well and whether a unit is good. You are arguing the first, most people on this thread the later. No one doubt that you can make ten MANz work. What we are telling you that other units could do that exact job better, due to not falling flat on their face against mobile armies.