UPDATE : WE ARE 400% FUNDED !!! THANK YOU ALL. NOW, TO THE STRETCH GOALS !/url]
---------------------------
Hello everyone !
Created in 2013, Don't Panic Games is a company which wants to develop all the aspects of the imaginary culture as a whole, on tabletop but also in comics, videogames and more.
Three seasoned entrepreneurs decided to work together to make the best entertainment products ever seen :
Cedric is a Pioneer of the geek industry in France, He brought the anime and manga culture to the mainstream culture thanks to the magazine Animeland and the brand KAZE, first anime label created in 1993 and now an entertainment group. Player of every kind of games, he is journalist, publisher, video game producer and owner of the "Dernier Bar Avant la Fin du Monde", the main geek culture "rendez-vous" in Paris (when you want to have a drink too).
Mohamed Ait-Mehdi is a sculptor and painter since 2005. First hired by Rackham, he then freelanced for various companies like Mantic or Privateer Press. In 2009, He launched the game Eden (Taban Miniatures), a miniature game in a post apocalyptic universe. Early in 2013, his first attempt at Kickstarting a boardgame, Escape, was met with success.
Nicolas Raoult is a freelance author and game designer. Having worked for more than 10 years on Rackham's games, Confrontation and AT-43, his latest work includes videogames, IP designing and the tremendously successful Zombicide boardgame (Guillotine Games)
Drakerys is a game of High fantasy, where elves, minotaurs, orks, elementals and humans fight for survival and the domination of the newly awakened Magic.
Rules are being tested as we speak and a Kickstarter campaign will be launched soon. Stay tuned by following our Facebook page (http://www.facebook.com/dontpanicgames). Website is WIP.
For those who do not follow our Facebook page, some updates :
First, we have a contest open on the page, allowing you to win a resin miniature of either the Fire or Water elemental just by sharing our post on Facebook.
Then, we just showed something that will please every gamers : Scenery !
More news soon, as we're getting closer to our Kickstarter campaign announcement. Stay tuned.
Yeah not really interested in yet another game - but some nice, generic terrain in a terrain-only pledge I'd be interested. The previewed ones look pretty spiffy.
I am curios about the action mechanic. I have rotten luck, so not getting to play because my opponent got several actions from the action spinner leaving me with no turn would be....not fun. If a little more information on how that works is possible, I would love it.
The faces on the orcs look terrible. Like Mantic's, they suffer because of the large gap between nose and mouth and the weak lower jaw. Orcs should look intimidating - these look like morons.
The elementals seemed an auspicious start, but you lost my interest when I saw it's a skirmish game with only 6-9 interchangeable mooks per side.
Wow, some very interesting design concepts with this!
Alex - I don't think it's right to say what is the 'right' way to sculpt an orc face, they can't all be snarling and brutal looking. Personally I like these, it looks like it fits the aesthetic of the game universe. I love the extremely bright colour scheme, light-coloured terrain, the way that even the photos have been bled into the white background. It creates a very light and breezy feeling when looking at it - I like it, you can tell someone has put thought and effort into the composition.
I'm looking forward to these going past the Kickstarter stage. I'm really (REALLY) interested in the Elementals but getting into yet another game that I don't have time for - I don't see it happening regardless of how good the minis look. That said, I'd love to paint up a set of the Elementals for the shelf.
Looks really good!
My only complaint (which will not prevent from pledging) is the fact that although the project is scheduled by a European based company, European backers again have to pay for shipping to Europe.
Tentatively put in for the whole shebang, but at the bare minimum I'm going to pick up a box of those orcs.
Been on a bit of an orc kick lately, which is a bit odd since all I predominately collect are reptilian forces. Maybe it's the green skins blending in well with their scaly similarly hued cousins?
This looks good. Some of the points that stick out to me particularly as a good sign:
1) While the miniatures are some version of restic, they are designed with deep sockets and plugs. This solves one of the major problems I have with restic...namely not being able to get stuff to stay glued!
2)Sculpts are great
3)Scenery!
4)Potential for interesting elves to be unlocked!
5)Ten sided dice allows for lots of variance in unit abilities
Gallahad wrote: This looks good. Some of the points that stick out to me particularly as a good sign:
1) While the miniatures are some version of restic, they are designed with deep sockets and plugs. This solves one of the major problems I have with restic...namely not being able to get stuff to stay glued!
.
I want to see some more dwarf concepts. I like when I see dwarves that are fully encased in armor. Never been a fan of the big beards or naked crazy Confrontation types.
Dwarves completely covered in armor I can get behind.
Curious what those silhouettes represent. Some of them are some weird shapes. Very nature- centric look creatures...
Alpharius wrote: I think 'hard plastic' (like GW) was their original intent, but 'restic' is their sad reality.
Can I cry on your shoulder?
I might consider doing an a la carte pledge just to see if there really is a difference with "restic". But everything I have touched involving it was horrible.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So it looks like "that guy" created a new account to troll yet another kickstarter.
His purpose in life is apparently to back projects for $1 so he can troll comments. Most people who are not interested in a project simply don't back it, whereas he feels compelled to back it so he can make the comments section unpleasant by constantly slagging off the games and their creators, along with anyone who dares to actually disagree with him by liking the product and/or challenging his views.
I'm surprised you forgot about "Him" already, Alph. Thought you would have remembered him from Arena Rex.
He's is like a Phoenix Turd. Rising from the bowels and reborn again.
It's interesting how he trolls.
He either goes full agro on the campaign from the start. Or he contributes and act as if he is excited about the whole thing and after an update down the road he trashes the whole thing.
I've had some issues with Taban Miniatures, but none of them were ripping off customers.
When it comes to delay announcements he is by far the worst. He has accused various companies of theft for announcing delays.
But of all the kickstarters he has trolled, he seems to have a special liking for Mohammad.
I really like the unique take on the Orcs. Some model cleanup is expected with nearly everything I buy these days... Some worse than other, looking at you Corruptors of the Apocalypse!
I am going to stay in and hope to snag an early bird.
Alph's restic fears are keeping me on the fence about them.
I really really want those Elementals though. I think they look wonderful, would be a lot of fun to paint, and I could use them for all sorts of things.
...blargh. Guess I'll just sit on the fence and wait to see what the end result is. Is that stuff really as bad as ya'll say it is?
Yeah, I missed most of the early birds, so I just figure I'll camp a pledge and see where things end up. Those elemental overlords are pretty neat looking. Judging by the prices too, I would assume they're going to be a bit larger figure.
Wow, this is doing quite well at 80K! With a lot of cool "elemental lords" unlocked. Looking forward to seeing the sculpts for them (just art on the main page for those atm).
On limited wifi at the moment so can't post images but a third scenery pack has just been uploaded, along with 2 further stretch goals (another kickstarter exclusive mercenary and the elf army pack).
RiTides wrote: Wow, this is doing quite well at 80K! With a lot of cool "elemental lords" unlocked. Looking forward to seeing the sculpts for them (just art on the main page for those atm).
Update 4 has a WiP of the Fire Elemental Overlord sculpt.
Alex C wrote: I've never had any problems with "restic". Don't know what all the fuss is about really, but to each their own...
It is quite a variable material. Larger models (or parts) don't tend to suffer, whilst thinner smaller bits do. Also, the tighter production schedule caused by kickstarter projects means that molds are not replaced as quickly, so you can be very unlucky and get some awful pieces. Restic I've bought at retail has been fine.
Looking at the models in this campaign, I'd have reservations over the elementals due to all the... elemental stuff around their feet. Mouldlines there would be a pain to deal with.
Also, I find these days that I'm turned off when it comes to the 'huge value' restic campaigns. Yes, individually each model might not take a long time to clean up. But when you know there'll be at least some work needing doing, on perhaps a hundre figures or more... that's when I start thinking that my hobby time would be better spent elsewhere.
RiTides wrote: Wow, this is doing quite well at 80K! With a lot of cool "elemental lords" unlocked. Looking forward to seeing the sculpts for them (just art on the main page for those atm).
Update 4 has a WiP of the Fire Elemental Overlord sculpt.
Alex C wrote: I've never had any problems with "restic". Don't know what all the fuss is about really, but to each their own...
It is quite a variable material. Larger models (or parts) don't tend to suffer, whilst thinner smaller bits do. Also, the tighter production schedule caused by kickstarter projects means that molds are not replaced as quickly, so you can be very unlucky and get some awful pieces. Restic I've bought at retail has been fine.
Looking at the models in this campaign, I'd have reservations over the elementals due to all the... elemental stuff around their feet. Mouldlines there would be a pain to deal with.
Also, I find these days that I'm turned off when it comes to the 'huge value' restic campaigns. Yes, individually each model might not take a long time to clean up. But when you know there'll be at least some work needing doing, on perhaps a hundre figures or more... that's when I start thinking that my hobby time would be better spent elsewhere.
Long story short, this isn't the project for me.
That's the issue I had wit Sedition Wars and mantics stuff.
I must have those elves. Fantastic and fresh concepts.
Regarding the restic, I have found that heating up the models either in hot water, or using a blowdryer for a couple of seconds makes scraping off the mold lines a breeze. Once the material is warmed, it becomes very soft, and my razor just slices right through it. So while the cleanup time is definitely a little bit longer than other materials (time to warm them up), it isn't nearly as long as when I tried cleaning them cold.
It is often difficult to get models to fit right if the factory pulls them out of the molds before the plastic cools and you can get significant warping, but again this can be corrected with a few seconds of blow drying.
With a proper deep peg and sockets joints like these models look to have, they take care of my personal only remaining concern with the material, which is the difficulty of getting them to remain glued when they haven't been designed with the material in mind (Like all of Mantic's offerings).
Those are some lovely miniatures. As a long time confrontation player It’s nice to see some hit of the art style surfacing again.
I would like to have the game but sadly I don’t really want the orc/human factions I would rather have the elves vs barbarians, since that would be something new. But as far as I can figure out I can’t escape the orc/humans, if I want the rules/game
So for now I’m just sitting in the corner hoping for an alternative setting, but it will probably never come.
From my experience with 'restic' outside of PP, unless this company has really figured out something new and awesome, a lot of these figures are going to be an absolute nightmare in this material.
Hmm, I got in on an Early Bird based on the beautiful miniatures in plastic, but If they're restic I might have to bow out. The Mantic Deadzone stuff is awful to work with.
Alpharius wrote: From my experience with 'restic' outside of PP, unless this company has really figured out something new and awesome, a lot of these figures are going to be an absolute nightmare in this material.
How so?
I mean, if this is just a nightmare to assemble... I play Infinity, I can pin/fix that.
If it is the quality of the casting process itself that is the problem, that is something else entirely.
I've been dealing with gakky stuff for a while, Forgeworld and Finecast have both required extra work to get 'right' whenever I put something together. And Infinity has had a couple gap issues on some of the things I've built. Even EFT I had some serious cutting and scraping to do. So if it just means 'a bit of extra work', I don't mind it to get some cool minotaurs, and elemental ladies.
I do think it lends itself well to organics, though, so some of these models (like elementals) should turn out fine. Hard edges are the real problem with restic, as they become soft... and of course poor quality casts result in mold lines that are very difficult to remove.
But the WIP above is the kind of model that I think would look fine in the material (imo). Anything with a sharp weapon or armor is where I would be more worried (such as perhaps with the orks here).
I never handled the Mantic stuff, as I thought the sculpts themselves were just godawful. So I've only had contact with the Privateer Press stuff, which is fine.
The Orc Shaman that they sent to that one review site looked rather good. Was that the dreaded Restic? Or was that a resin made 'demo' bit just for them?
RiTides wrote: ... and of course poor quality casts result in mold lines that are very difficult to remove.
THAT there... That is the core problem I have with pvc figures (other than soft edges and details). Cleaning up where there are details is a chore I would not want to inflict on anyone. Some intelligent mold creator can avoid that to some degree, but if these are being spincast and/or done in as few pieces as possible during production it will be hard to avoid moldlines in crucial areas. I recently bought a PP "plastic" figure and I was surprised by the properties of the material as in I could actually sand and scrape it and properly clean the model - So I do think there is hope for pvc depending on what mix of plasticizers are being used etc. Having said that I found the details quite soft on the range of PP figures I got (basically the models from the 2-player Hordes starter - cheap auction to satisfy my curiosity) compared to both normal plastic and metal. I don't know if that has to do with the material properties or if the sculpts were "soft" to begin with. I am thinking it's a tradeoff effect. Better details come with that "hard" pvc that is a bitch to clean.
In essence we all know pvc is here to stay - mostly because it makes figures affordable to us and profitable to produce in this way. Given there is no standard in this material or a goto factory that ensures a specific quality as of yet like with polystyrene (WGF) - it becomes a matter of how much you want a specific model or game. Since Sedition Wars and Mantics antics, I won't be backing anything in "restic", "pvc", "hard plastic (that isn't polystyrene)" or like Raging heroes likes to call it "Spincast resin" unless I can sample it first or until there is a recognised standard.
I do apologise for the assumption I wrongly made about the material RH is using - in my defense they did not specify who was handling it in the update I read and did not really explain it's properties in detail other than what sounded to me like characteristics of "pvc" as described by someone who did not want to call it that. I did not know they switched materials since I dropped that KS when I thought they were going the pvc route.
While perhaps a bit off-topic - materials used is interesting in the discussion - is this spin cast resin the same as trollcast or something different? I remember reading about trollcast with great interest a few years back when Ed was experimenting with it, but I have never handled the material myself so I don't have any personal knowledge about it's properties in practice.
We should probably avoid going into the details of trollcast in this thread, guys, as it is pretty much in it's own class- similar to hand cast resin in some ways, but not as reliable. It is not at all like the PVC used here. Personally, I Really love trollcast!
Other than that one thing, your post was excellent basement.dweller, and is exactly how I feel about PVC. Quoting it below:
RiTides wrote: ... and of course poor quality casts result in mold lines that are very difficult to remove.
THAT there... That is the core problem I have with pvc figures (other than soft edges and details). Cleaning up where there are details is a chore I would not want to inflict on anyone. Some intelligent mold creator can avoid that to some degree, but if these are being spincast and/or done in as few pieces as possible during production it will be hard to avoid moldlines in crucial areas. I recently bought a PP "plastic" figure and I was surprised by the properties of the material as in I could actually sand and scrape it and properly clean the model - So I do think there is hope for pvc depending on what mix of plasticizers are being used etc. Having said that I found the details quite soft on the range of PP figures I got (basically the models from the 2-player Hordes starter - cheap auction to satisfy my curiosity) compared to both normal plastic and metal. I don't know if that has to do with the material properties or if the sculpts were "soft" to begin with. I am thinking it's a tradeoff effect. Better details come with that "hard" pvc that is a bitch to clean.
In essence we all know pvc is here to stay - mostly because it makes figures affordable to us and profitable to produce in this way. Given there is no standard in this material or a goto factory that ensures a specific quality as of yet like with polystyrene (WGF) - it becomes a matter of how much you want a specific model or game. Since Sedition Wars and Mantics antics, I won't be backing anything in "restic", "pvc", "hard plastic (that isn't polystyrene)" <snip> unless I can sample it first or until there is a recognised standard.
Also, about "Restic" and PVC and the difference between the two.
PVC can be squishy and soft as a fresh turd (Restic) but it can also be hard as nail (did you try to bend your plumbing recently ?). It depends on how you make it and what kind of "solidifier" you use.
Most companies use a cheap solidifier (for costs reasons) and you get this gooey resin-like mini that bends with the heat of your hands, melts in the sun and has so many flashes you could make another mini with these.
Our plan is to use the high grade solidifier to get the details crisp and genuine and avoid to the maximum the "bendable incidents". We owe our backers (and future customers) this quality. It will be more expensive and that was taken into consideration in our KS prices too.
Our manufacturer is a specialist of the gaming industry and knows the drill better than anyone. We will be there all the time to triple check the quality. And of course any defective product would be replaced at no cost. But we know it's unlikely to happen.
Don't let other companies and other experiences fool you into thinking everything is always the same.
finally, the next video (about gameplay) will be online very soon too.
You might want to fix the link to the Kickstarter in the first post. The final closed bracket is backwards so the link isn't working.
Really wish I had jumped on to the original Elemental 555 level when it went up but didn't think I would be backing so didn't want to keep one away from someone who would see the campaign out but have since been convinced otherwise.
If it is anything like PVC pipe than that is no encouragement. I've worked with a lot with pvc pipes. You have to shave/slice it or cut it. You can file it, but it take great effort. Scrapping it leaves the pvc rough and bumpy.
Knives do cut in a lot better with PVC pipe than the pvc used in sedition wars, but you have to really watch the amount of pressure, as you can slip and go further into your work than intended.
Would be interested to see if you have any current examples of such a material, especially since you have a knowledge. Are you aware of a manufacturer that produces such?
Edit:
What is the typical model count for this game? I'm hoping 10 to 15ish and not 40 to 50+
@Piston Honda - I suggest reading the wiki entry for pvc - it's quite informative and lists different types of additives and effects. The most interesting perhaps is that plasticizers makes it softer and rigid pvc uses metal-based stabilizers...
@Don't Panic
Your description of Restic doesn't sound like the Restic I have seen. Sedition wars and Mantic's material is not soft and gooey, it is hard, hard pvc. The only soft and gooey pvc I know of is Reaper Bones or the prepaints. So is your material going to be the same as Sedition Wars and Mantic's miniatures, or is it something even different?
Alpharius wrote: Alright.... you've got me back to 'cautiously optimistic' now...
That's the spirit.
Thanks for fixing the link too.
The typical count for this game ? As many as you want, you can have a lot of fun with just the starter, you can double it and have a lot of fun without having twice the same ending to the game.
We playtested some game with 3 mages, 15 vortexes and a boatload of minis and we had a LOOOONG fun game.
Alpharius wrote: Alright.... you've got me back to 'cautiously optimistic' now...
That's the spirit.
Thanks for fixing the link too.
The typical count for this game ? As many as you want, you can have a lot of fun with just the starter, you can double it and have a lot of fun without having twice the same ending to the game.
We playtested some game with 3 mages, 15 vortexes and a boatload of minis and we had a LOOOONG fun game.
I don't know what mages or vortexes mean in your game, unfortunately.
Is the game played with a point system?
What would you say the standard model count for a typical game?
Malifaux is about... 6 to 10 models
judging by the starters (please correct me if I am wrong) a game is about 18 to 25 models?
Preview of the free (for Explorer pledge level and above) Kickstarter exclusive Avaren Elf Hero that will be unlocked at $125,000 along with the Elf Army box -
Maybe a different angle will do it, but Aspic doesn't look very good. The knees are in an awkward position, the back knee should not be facing the same direction as the front knee.
But what I won't be OK with is NOT knowing exactly what the material will be before the campaign ends - I'll be pulling my pledge (!) if we don't know for sure by then.
Very helpful graphics Don'tPanicCM, thanks for putting those up. Those look like great value pledges!
If there is room in your production schedule, I think that the air elemental overlord could look a lot better. I think that trying to model lightning will just never look right. I think the overlord would look better with something else (or nothing) in her hand.
I realize this is only Part 1. So I imagine the details will eventually be explained, but I still don't really understand the gameplay.
Is there a limit to how many actions the first player can do before the second player has a chance to respond?
In the video it looks like the first player did about 4 actions before the second player could react. That seems like a lot. What's stopping him from doing more?
yeah, could have been a better introductory video. For the most part it described the basics and fundamentals of every minis game ever. I'm not too athirst with the high model count if these miniatures are anywhere near as difficult to prep a other models in this material.
Still very interested in the Elves. I may get that deal just for the models... assuming they are close to the concept art. Even if I don't get into this game, I could use those for a variety of other things.
The Dwarfs also look promising. They look darker than I thought (just like the elves do), and that's a good thing imo.
And thanks for continuing to visit and contribute to the home of the most depressing and cynical gamers on the internet!
Its either be depressing and cynical, or be cheery and optimistic and get called out by the depressing and cynical ones for being a shill and a fanboi.
I shall totally continue being a shill. Like momma always said, "If you can't say something nice, say something clever and devestating."
...or something.
This KS is really thowing models at people. Those lucky folks who got in on the Elemental stuff for $555 at the start are going to have so many minis they'll be dead before they're all painted.
I think I'm in for the elemental ladies. They look fun to paint, and hopefully I won't butcher them too bad.
This continues to be very tempting, but waiting on the rules and a slight fear that they are setting themselves up to produce way more than they should be is holding me back.
This may be a "wait for retail" situation.
*Edit* But a very useful FAQ in todays update and a preview of the Araven Bloodbane is great, love the bulky elf
A little background was posted on the Aurium Dwarves this evening -
As other people parted into several sub-cultures, Dwarves chose to stay as one. However, castes began to form as centuries went by. Dwarves of the Aurium caste are the natural rulers of their kind. They chose the Lion as their emblem, and are known for two things: they are rich beyond imagination and share a special relationship with the afterworld. Aurium Dwarves summon their ancestors’ ghosts to talk about future “aggressive” acquisitions, and aren’t afraid to rob the soul of indelicate customers for future use. And we didn’t talked about the way they wage war... yet!
I like the games take on Dwarves and look forward to seeing the models.
I haven't seen any background information on the Avaren Elves yet so hopefully something is posted soon.
Would be nice to see at least another unit type for each army (if not a further foot unit and a cavalry unit). Hopefully they have something planned.
gohkm wrote: That elf reminds me of the old Celtos models for the Sidhe - bulky, mean-looking elves that looked like they could tear the arms of the opponent.
Still, despite the Rackham-esque element, I'm finding it very hard to get excited about this. I wonder why?
For me, there is still the lingering material issues - PVC looms menacingly over the campaign...
gohkm wrote: That elf reminds me of the old Celtos models for the Sidhe - bulky, mean-looking elves that looked like they could tear the arms of the opponent.
Still, despite the Rackham-esque element, I'm finding it very hard to get excited about this. I wonder why?
For me, there is still the lingering material issues - PVC looms menacingly over the campaign...
Alpharius wrote: For me, there is still the lingering material issues - PVC looms menacingly over the campaign...
I keep a few Mantic choice pieces in front of me as a reminder when I find myself weak to the siren song of shinies I'll be watching this from the sidelines, like RK and WoK till you guys get them and the initial "I invested in these - they have to be great" feelings have settled and the honest and level reviews are coming in. There are some really nice figures here - no question. Hopefully they've got a nice handle on the material so I can pick up a few when they hit retail.
Alpharius wrote: For me, there is still the lingering material issues - PVC looms menacingly over the campaign...
I keep a few Mantic choice pieces in front of me as a reminder when I find myself weak to the siren song of shinies I'll be watching this from the sidelines, like RK and WoK till you guys get them and the initial "I invested in these - they have to be great" feelings have settled and the honest and level reviews are coming in. There are some really nice figures here - no question. Hopefully they've got a nice handle on the material so I can pick up a few when they hit retail.
Nice post, basement. I think that sums it up well, and is a wise way of approaching it... will be interested to see your thoughts down the line.
I think it's a combo of not enough wider advertising within the miniature news sphere and the lack of stretch goals that encourage backers to pledge incremental amounts.
Whatever else I may think of Mantic's KSers, they know how to encourage current backers to keep fishing around for another $5 or $10.
I still don't really understand how the time path works. It seems like it's supposed to be a big feature of the game, but they haven't explained it very well.
In the first video (the second one mainly focused on the elemental objectives) it looks like one guy performs 4 actions, then stops. His opponent can then perform up to 4 also? Can his opponent ever leapfrog past him? Why does he do 4 actions? What's stopping him from doing more? If does only one action, does that mean his opponent is stuck moving at his pace and only doing one also?
I like the concept art for the elves and the dwarves, but I'd prefer to see the models before I commit. I have zero interest in the Orcs and Humans. The gameplay sounds interesting, but they are missing key points which I would also like before committing.
Right now this looks like a game I might like to play, but I'm not sold on kickstarting it. I may very well end up buying it when it's released, but currently there are too many unknowns for me.
It is usually not a good idea to assume you know the motivations behind any user's posts - it isn't particularly polite, respectful or smart.
Drakerys is going to do well based on concept art and resin masters, and then maybe not so well due to PVC minis, and possibly rules/translation issues.
It is usually not a good idea to assume you know the motivations behind any user's posts - it isn't particularly polite, respectful or smart.
Drakerys is going to do well based on concept art and resin masters, and then maybe not so well due to PVC minis, and possibly rules/translation issues.
You do have a lot of time on your hands Alph, you should probably start a hobby of some kind.
Weird that I'm backing a Sci-Fi and a Fantasy KS at the same time that I have strong misgivings about roughly the same things.
I was losing interest. The rules they have released so far seem to lose a little in translation. What is there seems fairly generic, other than the activation system which is pretty neat. Early days of this front.
Another thing was the variety in troop types is lacking. I know it's just the beginning, but there's no saying if this game will be supported in the future and if it isn't, we're stuck with 3 faction unit choices, which I feel isn't enough to make an interesting skirmish game with lots of replay potential.
I brought this up to DPG when they messaged me after I pulled my pledge, to which they replied it "isn't a skirmish game", despite it specifically stating it's a skirmish game on their front page...
They then tried to tell me there's more than 3 types of faction unit because the models are individually posable. Erm, ok...
The project also seems a bit mismanaged. There's nothing being actively done to drive pledging. There's no advertising outside of what backers are doing. The update information about the game that DPG presents really doesn't tell us much more than what we already know. It would not surprise me if these rules are being hastily thrown out there to appease backers rather than being prepared in advance. Same with the gameplay videos and stretch goals. You would think game companies would have such things already prepared before the project by now.
I just get the impression that DPG isn't really prepared. Their stuff is pretty, their KS is pretty, but underneath there isn't enough substance for me, and I am not totally confident in DPG's ability to pull it all off. Ultimately it comes down to the fact that I play a lot of games and Drakerys isn't offering anything different enough for me, therefore my funds are going into my currently played systems rather than investing in new, unproven ones.
All the best to DPG and those pledging on Drakerys, I guess it just isn't for me.
I am backing the project based on its potential. Its true that it is not all there, but the concept so far as presented interest me.
By tomorrow evening we should have a gameplay video showing the resolution of all the phases in the game, which should provide a lot more detail into the mechanics.
The minis are really pretty and for me can be used with a lot of games that I play (like hordes). I think their "twist" on the fantasy archetypes is nifty and I want to see how this world pans out.
In terms of the material used, they say it will be harder than PP's PVC. I am not 100% sure what this means and what the quality will be. This is a risk in this kickstarter. However, I personally, do not mind PP's miniatures and I have a good time painting them.
The latest rules overview helped answer some questions and raised a few others, which should get sorted out by tomorrow's video.
In my mind a kickstarter is a mechanism for bringing concepts to the market to see how the market reacts. I like the concepts they showed, so I am backing. I like the history of the team and their previous projects, which in my mind mitigates some of the risk of kickstarter campaigns.
Im really happy you brought the concerns with PVC to light so that people can understand the risks (I have been reading up on PVC and on injection moulding, etc.). Its important to weigh the good aspects of a campaign and the bad aspects and also what you hope to get out of kickstarter yourself.
Another reason I am backing is I would like to see a high fantasy skirmish style game in the market place.
Skirmish in the context of table top war games is used to mean a few different things I have found. For some skirmish is the size of the game for others its the lose cohesiveness of the minis. In my mind it is a little bit of both. Potentially also the length needed to play (which is also something I am looking for as my gaming time is limited unfortunately due to life circumstances). From what it sounds like they are somewhere in between infinity and warmahordes in terms of model count (assuming 300pts infinity lists and 50 pt warmachine lists). That might be why they say semi-battle sized. In my mind its a skirmish game based on the information provided.
Thanks for explaining it DPG! That adds some clarity in terms of what was meant. I am looking forward to the video with the game phases.
Automatically Appended Next Post: We just got an update on the rules and some things are starting to fall into place. The large rule update is schedule for tomorrow evening via video game play.
The time track is a bit more clear in terms of how it is used. A full circle is on "Turn" in the game and games last 6 turns. Once completing a circle (think pass go in monopoly) you get to remove one stress token from your troops.
Stress tokens make all your actions cost one more point on the time track to complete. Every time you activate a unit you get a stress token. So this to me implies you can move everything once and suffer no consequences or you can keep moving the same unit at more cost. Also units have caps as to how many activation points they can spend, so at some point you can no longer activate the unit due to the amount of stress it has accumulated. I like this, it has promise.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Another interesting tidbit of information. The modular characters actually build three different heroes, not three different configurations of the same named hero.
The same is for the units, which seems to imply that instead of one base profile with three different weapon options we have three different profiles. In addition, it has been said that weapons will provide different stats / modifies, though we do not yet know any details on that part.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
These modular minis turned out well in my opinion!
The first concept of the Angels! Also more rules previous have been posted in quick start format in the updates section. It looks pretty interesting, I am going to do some test "games" to see how it all fits together.
They are showing off other aspects of the game since we have been clamoring to see them.
The rules are still a WIP and we have been asking lots of questions to get them clarified. We are trying to maintain a FAQ at BGG which hopefully will be assembled soon to get all the rule information in one place.
I thought he was kinda cool looking! A few of my gaming buddies are hoping to pick him up.
I was sorry to see you go on this one man! There are still a lot of unknowns, but for me the promise is there. I am happy with the direction of the rule set. They also gave me permission to create a Vassal module so the backers can play games while we wait for the shipments. This will be a great way to give them additional feedback. That and we might have a chance to influence the game direction a bit (maybe not).
I'm still curious what that last humanoid silhouette belongs to. Makes me think something canine related, which Barzam and myself are always on the lookout for.
At the very least I know I'll be grabbing some scenery.
The orcs are tempting at least. Would love to see what the dwarves look like too.
Now if they had a reptile faction, I'm afraid I'd be all in at that point.
Production is in PVC that is "harder" than what PP uses for its models. Some people really dislike PVC, so make your decision accordingly. I personally am happy with PP quality minis. I dont say this to dissuade you, but so you know what to expect. That said I decided to pony up a good chunk of cash on this one as it appeals to me. I am pretty excited by the world and the rules based on what we have seen thus far!
but they were also run by other companies. Even then there were people who were happy with what they got. For instance, I own some of the sedition wars terrain and I am happy with it. So it is just not a universal truth that everyone is unhappy. I think with PVC you just need to go in expecting that the models will not be exactly the same as the greens or the resins.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Out of curiosity do you have stats % wise of how many happy vs unhappy people there were? And how many happy vs unhappy about the material? Some people were annoyed due to late shipments, others due to mispacks, etc. It would be nice to quantify these claims based on perceptions of all participants.
primalexile wrote: I think I am going to do the Ala Cart pledge and add the terrain and KS exclusives only and wait until retail.
you can't add the KS exclusives in ala cart or at least not many of them, they are only available to the particular pledge.
May 26 from DPG
@All : Lorn and Valira WILL NOT be add-ons. They are exclusive KS sculpts and are offered to our most faithful backers as a thank you. and the add-ons are only Lorn's wolf and elemental. Not Lorn himself.
That is true, as of right now the kickstarter exclusives cannot be added on to the pledges. In the comments they mentioned lifting this restriction if certain pledge goals are reached based on how much funding they need to be profitable. They have chosen not to reveal that number yet, but based on the previous questions people have asked and they answered in a similarly coy way we did get the answers we were seeking.
So over all sometimes it takes a bit to get the final answer, but so far they have delivered -- assuming we get the game play video soonish (though they have admitted its been a bit delayed for dubbing in English).
In the nicest, most non-accusatory way Zreef.....my impression of your contribution to this thread so far is that you either know the people making this game, or are one of them. Practically everything you type sounds like an advertisement for it.
ha! just look up my IP address and its corresponding location. I am totally not them nor do I know them, I just do not subscribe to the more prevalent views on PVC. I am very excited about the kickstarter and have been following all the comments / questions people have asked and am trying to answer people's concerns here.
yeah we are supposed to get a video showing all the interactions. It was promised to be posted on late Tuesday evening, but they stated they got delayed in the English dubbing and it should be posted soon (TM). I am hoping it gets done shortly as I am planning on create a vassal module to be able to play test this guy.
That's a little odd about the exclusives being tied to certain pledges. I was actually tempted to pledge JUST for the exclusives, assuming I could get them at a reasonable price, and then use them as a basis of expectation on the quality of the rest of the line. I am a huge Rackham fan, so the aesthetics here really push all the right buttons, but PVC... blah. The results on small models are almost never good enough to be worth the kind of effort that goes into making them look nice.
Wehrkind wrote: That's a little odd about the exclusives being tied to certain pledges. I was actually tempted to pledge JUST for the exclusives, assuming I could get them at a reasonable price, and then use them as a basis of expectation on the quality of the rest of the line. I am a huge Rackham fan, so the aesthetics here really push all the right buttons, but PVC... blah. The results on small models are almost never good enough to be worth the kind of effort that goes into making them look nice.
The did say that after they reach a certain funding goal (we do not yet know what that goal is - unless I missed something) that the exclusives will become add ons so that people can just pick up one if that is all they are interested in.
So I found this interesting from DPG in the comments:
"Mr Zombi, we can guarantee that they look like the original model.
We had them redone several times until they were realistic.
We happen to be part of these people who don't mind having women looking all different and equally beautiful thanks to these differences. We are not supporting the Barbie-bimbo uniform with huge boobs and baby-like waists all the time. We wish to provide a more diverse and interesting view on female characters.
The minis will be human sized."
The angel and the demon are modeled after two of their team members. I do not know if they will be able to achieve it, but more realistically proportioned female models will be appreciated by many. This reminds me of "that thread" on the infinity forums.
That's good to hear. I see this as a pretty big gamble, but for some exclusive models I might well be willing to buy in, so long as the price isn't silly. 15$ for a single model I haven't seen would qualify as "silly".
zreef wrote: So I found this interesting from DPG in the comments:
"Mr Zombi, we can guarantee that they look like the original model.
We had them redone several times until they were realistic.
We happen to be part of these people who don't mind having women looking all different and equally beautiful thanks to these differences. We are not supporting the Barbie-bimbo uniform with huge boobs and baby-like waists all the time. We wish to provide a more diverse and interesting view on female characters.
The minis will be human sized."
The angel and the demon are modeled after two of their team members. I do not know if they will be able to achieve it, but more realistically proportioned female models will be appreciated by many. This reminds me of "that thread" on the infinity forums.
I am on the fence about this one but can see myself putting in a small amount and then adding stuff in their pledge manager phase. I love the miniatures and the terrain and am not worried about the rules. The miniature quality is my main concern.
Alpharius wrote: This one seems to have stalled out at $140K~...
I wonder if this one has hit a restic/PVC ceiling?
I PM'd them yesterday about some test models. They said they are working with their manufacturer to get some prior to the end of the campaign so people can see their version of "hard" PVC. A number of Japanese companies make scale models in PVC. They are pretty detailed and snap fit! I should go take some pictures of my unassembled starblazer models. If anyone is interested in them.
It's a good intro video. Answered some questions, made a few more.
Can you play without the little board? Seems like an inconvenience of space, is space is limited. Perhaps using dice (D20s?) to keep track?
I don't understand how elementals work.
It looks like you don't get to bring them along with your army, but act as sort of a "interactive character terrain piece" (for a lack of a better term), that during the game armies battle to use?
I'm lost.
Are they required to play or just give the game an element that is part of the fluff?
Piston Honda wrote: It's a good intro video. Answered some questions, made a few more.
Can you play without the little board? Seems like an inconvenience of space, is space is limited. Perhaps using dice (D20s?) to keep track?
I don't understand how elementals work.
It looks like you don't get to bring them along with your army, but act as sort of a "interactive character terrain piece" (for a lack of a better term), that during the game armies battle to use?
I'm lost.
Are they required to play or just give the game an element that is part of the fluff?
The small board is for the sample scenarios provide in the "valgar islands campaign". I believe these are the "learn the game" scenarios and to get people playing with the starter set as best I can tell.
So far, all we know about the elementals is that they can be summoned if you control a vortex. Dunno if you pay for them out of your army composition or if they are just a spell that is cast. Ill ask this on the comments.
I do not believe they are required and I do not think they have attacks, but more of an area of effect. It is strongly implied they are able to move as they get summoned on the vortex, but then in some of the examples they showed they are on other parts of the board. Each elemental provides buffs to units in its area of control, i believe only friendly units, but this too is not 100% clear,
I want to back but the experience with Sedition Wars has left me a little jaded.
I may have missed them in the thread but I need to see unpainted and undoctored elementals of both small and large sizes.. which is the main reason I want in with this KS.
"Hard plastic miniatures featured in the Starter Box come ready assembled. In other boxes, however, miniatures can be assembled in various configurations to suit your gaming need and painter taste. Here is an example:"
Does this mean that each Avaren model can be equipped with a bow instead of swords? Or that I will have some with each?
Thunderfrog wrote: "Hard plastic miniatures featured in the Starter Box come ready assembled. In other boxes, however, miniatures can be assembled in various configurations to suit your gaming need and painter taste. Here is an example:"
Does this mean that each Avaren model can be equipped with a bow instead of swords? Or that I will have some with each?
This means that all the Avaren models can be equipped however you choose. The only statically configured models are those in the starter set (the orcs and humans). The army boxes are completed modular in their troop configuration. This means you can make them all have bows if that is what you want (though I am not 100% sure what the three configuration options are for the crows).
What kind of plastic do you use for the miniatures ?
Our cumulated previous experience with plastic miniatures on other endeavours has made us decide on a very hard PVC plastic.
I wonder what it would take to get Resin, PVC and Styrene the official names by which the various plastics are known, such that it was common enough to deem it misleading to use other names or appellations.
Wehrkind wrote: I wonder what it would take to get Resin, PVC and Styrene the official names by which the various plastics are known, such that it was common enough to deem it misleading to use other names or appellations.
well those ARE the names the products are known by but in an industry where 28 mm can be applied to models that stand 40 mm tall what weight does a descriptive term really hold anyway?
Yea, I don't really know how to hammer home using the proper names other than just community norms. Urethane resin is pretty specific, as is high impact polystyrene; those can only be what they are. PVC is a range of stuff, but neither of those.
I dunno. Word use and clarity is a really interesting problem. An emergent system where the end state is very important but terribly difficult to reach a particular one.
Wehrkind wrote: I wonder what it would take to get Resin, PVC and Styrene the official names by which the various plastics are known, such that it was common enough to deem it misleading to use other names or appellations.
The problem with that, too, is that there are varying 'recipes' of PVC that seem to impact the quality of the output.
Oi vey, so much ambiguity in our little corner of the hobby world.
Yea, PVC is annoying like that, although just clearly deliminating Resin/HIPSfrom the chaotic wilds of PVC would be a good start. If PVC became a by word for "Watch out, get more information" it would be a step in the right direction
Wehrkind wrote: Yea, PVC is annoying like that, although just clearly deliminating Resin/HIPSfrom the chaotic wilds of PVC would be a good start. If PVC became a by word for "Watch out, get more information" it would be a step in the right direction
I think that would be the perfect disclaimer.
Other plastics, like on a milk jug, require numbering, right, for recycling purposes?
How great would it be if we could get numbered PVC recipes so we knew exactly what we were getting!
I still would like to back this project, but I’m not in favor of a start box with fixed armies.
I love the elves, the orcs are ok, but I find the humans rather bland. If I were to play the game I would make an elf army and something ende (I would love barbarians or maybe the dwarfs, but orcs could be good enough).
Since they don’t want to change the whole startbox setup, I can’t find a pledge level which suits me, and I don’t want to invest in an human army which I wouldn’t use, it is a waste of resource and I can’t support that.
I would pledge if they made an alternative Conquer pledge level quite similar to the one they have with a startbox but with 4 optional 20$ boxes instead of 4 fixed boxes. Then I could add 1 elf armybox and I would get an elf army and an orc army with only a few human miniatures as leftovers.
In case the dwarf goal is reached I could add another start box giving me an elf and a dwarf army; with some orcs I could use for another game and only a few humans would be wasted.
I see the need for a fixed starter box - it leads to economies of scale, and ensures that they at least get some 'boardgame presence' even in shops that don't carry their full line. I agree that as a boxed game, it could be a great deal cheaper.
I'm not very much a fan of their price structure that's essentially "pay 50% more to get more Kickstarter exclusives, and some extra repeats of the stuff we're already giving you".
I'm definitely not a fan of their price structure in general. A single army box is $60, 63% of the price of the "sweet spot" pledge that gets you 2 armies, a rulebook, and a fair few elementals and heroes. A single 'troop expansion' is $20, for 2-5 models made in the cheapest miniatures material available.
This is for a project that will, at the earliest, deliver in 10 months from now, from a completely unknown company - I really think that they're not really reflecting the risk that backers are entering into with the structure of their campaign.
Right now you have 3 troop types for each faction along with three configurations for each troop type. Add to that the angels, mercenaries, elemental heralds, overlords, dragon, and characters and you have a good amount of choice.
Cavalry is rumored to be coming soon (tm).
All in all there is a lot of stuff! The next few days should be interesting.
The rules, in my opinion, seem interesting. Hard to tell for sure without playing ... which is why I will be whipping up a vassal module for this so all the backers can play test while we wait for the actual game to ship.
There is quite a lot in there! I am hoping for cavalry before the end of the campaign, but I guess that depends on how much they raise. I have no idea what the $ bar is for cav.
I am happy they green lighted my vassal module idea. I figure if we all help by play testing and sending in logs we will end up with a tighter game. In my opinion, nothing helps balance a game like external gamers!
I'm in at an EB Explorer. I've sworn off Restic, but I'm a sucker for anything Rackham-esque. Taban is a bit flaky, but they can put together a tight ruleset and nice sculpts. I'm taking this KS as a SPM:ND as Tabanon't Panic
For anyone wondering, the Restic minis in the Escape boardgame are quite good given the material. They're a pretty soft blend, but the detail is good, light on the mold lines and well placed. I would expect improvement here.
Answered a lot of questions. they were much better written than I anticipated.
The whole vortex and elemental/summoner thing has me worried, as it has presage of dominating every game eclipsing scenarios and turning every game into a new capture the flag.
I guess the real test would be if a player could win without a summoner.
It's a neat gimmick, but at first glance it seems like it will dominate every game.
the vortices are part of the scenarios (at least that is my understanding). Also all "awakened" can summon elementals and I believe each army must have an awakened, though the awakened need not be spell casters.
Bioptic wrote: I see the need for a fixed starter box - it leads to economies of scale, and ensures that they at least get some 'boardgame presence' even in shops that don't carry their full line. I agree that as a boxed game, it could be a great deal cheaper.
I'm not very much a fan of their price structure that's essentially "pay 50% more to get more Kickstarter exclusives, and some extra repeats of the stuff we're already giving you".
I'm definitely not a fan of their price structure in general. A single army box is $60, 63% of the price of the "sweet spot" pledge that gets you 2 armies, a rulebook, and a fair few elementals and heroes. A single 'troop expansion' is $20, for 2-5 models made in the cheapest miniatures material available.
This is for a project that will, at the earliest, deliver in 10 months from now, from a completely unknown company - I really think that they're not really reflecting the risk that backers are entering into with the structure of their campaign.
This. It's amazing how much faith can be put in a company no-one has ever heard of before nor ever actually got something in their hands to cross-check quality. The minis are OK and I've been looking into the ruleset that seems interesting, but most of all it's the awesome painting on the minis and some of the artwork that has pulled people into this.
Sorry if I missed this but can't find any answers to another thing bothering me since I also find it strange no-one backing this project hasn't asked who is manufacturing all this stuff and that "a very hard PVC plastic" is enough information. Searching through their FAQ "What kind of plastic do you use?" They say "we don't make crap and we don't sell crap". Easy to say when them having produced zero products till today makes this hard both to confirm nor dismiss...
Excluding the rest of the stuff the Spanish did wrong at Scale Games, can't forget that everybody shouting at their Fallen Frontiers project when they said they might use PVC (and eventually made them exclude it as a possible manufacturing process/material) but it's OK for Drakerys because it's going to be "hard plastic PVC". Yeah.... right....
to be fair, the people behind Dont Panic have some exp. in running a company and production.
One of them runs Taban Miniatures, a few people from Rackham.
That said, after Don't panic posted on this forum saying I shouldn't let problems of one company affect judgement on their product. Too true.
However I asked in regards of their different types of PVCs and solidifies, have they worked with them before, if not how do they know it will prove better results? What other companies have used this different PVC formula?
they would not answer me, unfortunately.
I was in for 150 bucks at one point but backed out. This is starting to look like another buck o miniatures kickstarter where the end result is sedition wars. You get what you pay for.
if you are just looking for a bunch of miniatures that look ok and don't mind a lot of mold lines left over when painting, this will probably be for you. Nothing wrong with that, I just look for quality over quantity.
Er, I'd argue that you don't get much quantity either! For $110 dollars, you get the 'boardgame' box (with 34 models), 4 extra characters and a suite of 8 elementals. Further spends of $60 get you ~18 more models at a maximum.
That's not terrible value, but it's not superb compared to any number of games that you could get right now, not 10 months away. I can understand them targeting the premium end of the price spectrum, but I feel that if this is the case 1) the material should also be premium, and 2) the Kickstarter should provide a better discount relative to retail.
For me, I view this as backing a game. The game itself (world, rules) look interesting to me. That is the primary reason I am in.
As for the models, the sculpts are all very nice. How they will translate to a final product, no one really knows. I have worked with all sorts of materials over the years and personally do not really understand why people get cranked up about mold lines and the such. I managed to clean up my personal sedition wars miniatures (purchased for use with Infinity, not to play sedition wars) just fine. I clean up my PP plastics just fine. So far the miniatures that have taken the longest to clean up are the GW plastics. NOT because each individual model is tough, but because I have 40 in a unit! Then there is bolt action, which is truly random in the quality you get (these are metal). Some of my germans have mold lines that are a few mm thick! Some have think mold lines, but the flash off of them is 1/4" long! I have 5 different exacto knives, 30+ files of differing shapes / granularities, sand paper, emory boards, green stuff, liquid green stuff, and some other more esoteric fillers. So I am really not too worried about clean up and getting things looking tip top and in a fast amount of time.
The only thing that inspires rage in me is when the two parts of the mold are off center now THAT is a pain to deal with. Very brittle resin is also annoying, not to work with, but to game with as it break when you look at it wrong.
Not being a GW-fan boy, I must admit my GW plastics are by far the cleanest minis I've ever received. It's a joy not having to spend 2-3 hours in cleaning stuff up just because of their low(er) quality.
I agree with @Piston Honda about quality over quantity. I don't have time to paint 3 billion low-quality minis. Then again I don't want a second mortgage just to be able to afford top quality ones. For example Mierce has good quality but extraterrestrial pricing. Mantic on the other hand takes it to the other side by giving you minis by the bundle (quality however is something you'll never see them talk about).
I'll also agree that a KS should offer really good deals or good discounts from RRP. I can't see how paying 15$ for an Irosian heroine or awakaned Ashral Hero (lone characters) is something that can be considered attractive, given the fact it's PVC, thus among the cheapest materials you can get your hands on... Just to avoid misunderstandings, same goes to a bunch of other manufacturers, e.g. Raging Heroes who also asked for 15$ instead of RRP 18$. (at least that was resin). But I don't consider that a deal either, I'll get it online for a 20% discount, so that's like 14,40$!!! (ain't that a bummer...)
What I'd like to see is a KS that gives you really good quality minis in an abundant quantity. It'll be quite a while I think before something like that ever happens... *rolling eyes*
I don't really expect to have steep discounts. 10 to 20 percent off seems fair IMO. I wold not want a company to stretch themselves then and not have enough money tom complete the project.
Perhaps a freebie or 2.
I would see it best for a company to invest money into better quality components (miniatures, markers, custom dice), expanding art work and fluff and future playbale units inside the game's universe.
Rather than throw buckets of minis we are already getting or a bunch of limited edition cross over miniatures.
I raised these concerns during the sedition wars campaign, a few others too.
What did I receive? Scorn and uncouth behavior and people reporting me to KS.
Someone involved with the SedWars project made a snarky post towards people asking similar questions on BGG.
Now I ask, where is it now and how is the game viewed?
Poorly, in fact, I've seen more people regret SedWars than any other KS. Wish I could have the last laugh, but I kickstarted it to. Reason I am careful in my KS choices.
Piston Honda wrote: I don't really expect to have steep discounts. 10 to 20 percent off seems fair IMO. I wold not want a company to stretch themselves then and not have enough money tom complete the project.
That makes no sense for two reasons.
If they want to be anything more than a bit player they will have to go into general distribution which means ending up someplace where I can order online and get a 20% discount so what am I getting for the risk I'm taking ? Likewise that also means they will be selling to said distributors for considerable less than 20% off MSRP. If they cant handle more than that they might as well plan on remaining a garage company or they need to take a serious look at their business plan.
We have a dwarf assassin! The dwarves are close to being unlocked. It is interesting to see all the new stuff being unlocked and also a lot of requests from the fans.
It is unique! I am not a very big fan of Noob, but he is a crossover miniature and not representative of the main game.
Alex have you seen the wolfrider miniature concept? It is the first cavalry we got to see. It is an old blind barbarian who uses an owl to see. Its a very interesting concept, definitely cool.
Automatically Appended Next Post: some more concepts!
... and this is why I have enjoyed this kickstarter so much. They took our comments on Aspic and resculpted her based on our suggestions. Specifically in the facial structure to get it to match the art better.
Those orc cavalry units scream Rackham Brontops. I don't think I mind.
Those new awakened guys look good- especially liking the giant tiger. If they make it that large, I'll probably have to grab it.
How big are those centaurs going to be? Unless perspective is tricks on me in that picture, it's huge- it's got someone sitting behind the scabbard on its back there, and they look miniscule!
Giant stuff like that might have to go play with my Darklands figures!
First they had models, then they had concept artwork, now they have sketches... this is getting too much to chew on, and to be delivered in less than 10 months from an unknown producer?
I'll praise them if they ever make it, but at this point I'm only seeing this residing very far from the sphere of reality.
@Thunderfrog I also truly hope it doesn't end up as another Restic Knight project. Really pushing the limit at this point to add some 700 new Knights in their ranks...
I hope it does well and catches on though. I really like the look of the elves and the dwarf art.
I can't afford to be the guy to try to start up a new game in our group again. I was unable to get anyone else interested. I'm still very interested in it, but I'll wait for the general release and see if my group is ready then.
Interesting how they can suddenly afford to drop the Dwarf SG by $15k as well as add in all these additional miniatures, dice, mats and tokens that sprung out of nowhere.
I'm really not too worried about the sculpts or rules. Between Mohamed and Pierre (and Nicolas), that side of the house is covered. There's good history there with the creative team. With the addition of some native English speakers to the team; I think that will help cover translation issues that have plagued Eden (and even AT-43/Confrontation to some extent). I have every expectation that the game will be awesome.
Regarding the material. PVC is PVC and once you've made peace with the fact that it will only ever be "good enough" for the tabletop, it will set you free. I think a lot of us were so exhausted from cleaning up Dreadball Season 1, then when Sedition Wars landed on our doorsteps just afterwards, it tainted us on the material forever. I loath it as a medium , but I've come to accept that it's a cheap buy-in and if the rules are good (such as with Dreadball or Deadzone), I can live with it. It paints up good enough for gaming.
The area of the project that is the big X factor for me is with the project management. This is what keeps me from going in for anything more than the starter set. I just can't shake the feeling that this is going to be another project with a 6 month delay that causes the core set to be airlifted to GenCon 2015 with general delivery sometime in the fall. Queue the outrage in the meantime. This is then followed by a wave 2 that will be announced at some point after the pledge manager closes that will deliver in early 2016, that will then have it's own customs issues or manufacturing miscommunications and end up "maybe" getting into everyones hands in the summer 2016.
You all know now that the dwarves are being unlocked at 185k.
But what about having a glimpse of the future ? A preview of what's next ? An insight on the inside ? And as always, go big or go home !
As you know we fed our community manager to the trolls. But before he left us for a better world, he managed to take a picture we cannot resist to show you...
Those big creatures look like they'll be great - if they can pull it all off!
Wow, those are bigger than I thought. And that space marine is raised up quite a few MMs on that base. How tale is a space marine to the eyes and how tall to the top of the head?
Is that 2nd miniature to the right from 1650 or Freebooter's fate?
Piston Honda wrote: Wow, those are bigger than I thought. And that space marine is raised up quite a few MMs on that base. How tale is a space marine to the eyes and how tall to the top of the head?
Is that 2nd miniature to the right from 1650 or Freebooter's fate?
It's Gorman Di Wulfe from Warmachine.
Pic is a bit misleading with the basing method used on several models. Still, it's all we get I suppose with them not having any unpainted production or master models.
Some mild measurement fudging here, so do not take any of this official.
If a space marine is 33mm to the top of his head, the drakerys' miniature is about ~40mm to the top of his head (note the mini has a elongated helmet)
And I have been taught the minis are generally measured to the eye. So these are 35mm? Perhaps a tad bit smaller if I miscalculate the size of the helmet and judgement of comparison.
Then there is the shrinkage rate that occurs, probably 1mm 2 at the most if they shrink anything like Sedition Wars and relic knights.
tre manor wrote: .......... I am geniunely curious........ Looking at that selection what "scale " do yo you guys call that?
Haha Tre, I could imagine you saying that out loud
I think 35mm, as Piston Honda says... but these things tend to be flexible so maybe they'd get away with calling it 32mm. I'd like to see it compared to a "normally posed" Privateer Press model, which I think is considered 32mm.
The should be 32mm to the eyes of the human model (based on the previous picture). They only measure from the feet and do not include the base. So they should be compatible in scale to PP models (the again PP models are all over the place scale wise ... looking at you black 13th).
Yeh I am always curious as to what qualifies as 32 mm scale. I see now why some peopel woudl call my scale 25 even though the figures are built on 35 mm tall armatures.
tre manor wrote: Yeh I am always curious as to what qualifies as 32 mm scale. I see now why some peopel woudl call my scale 25 even though the figures are built on 35 mm tall armatures.
Wehrkind wrote: Yea, I would definitely call yours 25mm, especially since they are truer scale. Old farts like me love that gak
Agreed, I'd definitely call Tre's scale "25mm" as it is commonly thought of... and this could squeak in as being considered "32mm" or maybe a hair above that.
I like what I've seen from the rules and gameplay so far, and I'm digging the miniatures. I just don't want to take any chances with the material and preassembled box set.
Triple9 wrote: Hmm, this project seems to be doing the same thing as Galaxy Defenders last week. I wonder if the last day backslide is going to be the new norm.
God I hope not. That was a tough swallow with Galaxy Defenders, but Ares and their Gremlins stepped up like real troopers in the end. Nobody deserves to watch their funding take a tumble like that.
Sadly I think I'm liking more of the concepts they're showing off now compared to the stuff they actually got funded.
Best of luck to them. The theme does not really grab me as anything new, but wish them the best. That and I don't need any more unpainted minis sitting around.
I was challenged to count up how much money I have in unpainted minis.
I dropped my pledge. Decided I really didn't love any of the models, and had no interest at all in the humans that I had to pay for in order to get the best 'value'.
Will look for it at retail and genuinely hope it does well, the concept work for future minis looks amazing.
I think it has lot of potential, and we're seeing a lot of people that pledged on that potential that are probably still interested in the project but aren't sure what they'd be getting if they stay in.
Late slides also have a domino effect once it becomes apparent that certain stretch goals won't be met. There's some very appealing concept art there that isn't going to be realised as a model in this Ks.
Well after reading through all of that this game has got me incredibly interested....i will follow this closely and look more into it....may have to pick it up
I think that Don't Panic have run a great campaign and while they are certainly suffering a bit from their choice of material, raising the amount of money they have is nothing to snicker at. If they handle this well and deliver as promised, this game could be a real launching point for them. The aesthetic is extremely interesting to me, and I have been very impressed both with the concept art and the vast majority of sculpts.
I think that a more modest campaign than some had predicted is probably better for them as it lets them work hard to deliver the truckload of miniatures promised, and then hit retail with another wave of impressive sculpts and concepts.
Something new has risen from the horizon 