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Hmm, I got in on an Early Bird based on the beautiful miniatures in plastic, but If they're restic I might have to bow out. The Mantic Deadzone stuff is awful to work with.

 Alpharius wrote:
From my experience with 'restic' outside of PP, unless this company has really figured out something new and awesome, a lot of these figures are going to be an absolute nightmare in this material.

How so?

I mean, if this is just a nightmare to assemble... I play Infinity, I can pin/fix that.

If it is the quality of the casting process itself that is the problem, that is something else entirely.

I've been dealing with gakky stuff for a while, Forgeworld and Finecast have both required extra work to get 'right' whenever I put something together. And Infinity has had a couple gap issues on some of the things I've built. Even EFT I had some serious cutting and scraping to do. So if it just means 'a bit of extra work', I don't mind it to get some cool minotaurs, and elemental ladies.

 Chemical Cutthroat wrote:

If it is the quality of the casting process itself that is the problem, that is something else entirely.

That IS the problem.

If it is the same material and processes used to make Mantic's "PVC" miniatures and the Sedition Wars McVey "PVC" miniatures, it is NOT good.

At all.

The concept art for this looks fantastic.

The resin masters for this look fantastic.

But I have serious doubts that the 'production miniatures' will match this.

I do think it lends itself well to organics, though, so some of these models (like elementals) should turn out fine. Hard edges are the real problem with restic, as they become soft... and of course poor quality casts result in mold lines that are very difficult to remove.

But the WIP above is the kind of model that I think would look fine in the material (imo). Anything with a sharp weapon or armor is where I would be more worried (such as perhaps with the orks here).

Hmm. I see.

I never handled the Mantic stuff, as I thought the sculpts themselves were just godawful. So I've only had contact with the Privateer Press stuff, which is fine.

The Orc Shaman that they sent to that one review site looked rather good. Was that the dreaded Restic? Or was that a resin made 'demo' bit just for them?

Resin Demo models.

Thanks Tre!

...and a Resin Master doesn't always represent what you'll get with "Restic Reality", sadly.

 RiTides wrote:
... and of course poor quality casts result in mold lines that are very difficult to remove.

THAT there... That is the core problem I have with pvc figures (other than soft edges and details). Cleaning up where there are details is a chore I would not want to inflict on anyone. Some intelligent mold creator can avoid that to some degree, but if these are being spincast and/or done in as few pieces as possible during production it will be hard to avoid moldlines in crucial areas. I recently bought a PP "plastic" figure and I was surprised by the properties of the material as in I could actually sand and scrape it and properly clean the model - So I do think there is hope for pvc depending on what mix of plasticizers are being used etc. Having said that I found the details quite soft on the range of PP figures I got (basically the models from the 2-player Hordes starter - cheap auction to satisfy my curiosity) compared to both normal plastic and metal. I don't know if that has to do with the material properties or if the sculpts were "soft" to begin with. I am thinking it's a tradeoff effect. Better details come with that "hard" pvc that is a bitch to clean.

In essence we all know pvc is here to stay - mostly because it makes figures affordable to us and profitable to produce in this way. Given there is no standard in this material or a goto factory that ensures a specific quality as of yet like with polystyrene (WGF) - it becomes a matter of how much you want a specific model or game. Since Sedition Wars and Mantics antics, I won't be backing anything in "restic", "pvc", "hard plastic (that isn't polystyrene)" or like Raging heroes likes to call it "Spincast resin" unless I can sample it first or until there is a recognised standard.

Absolutely love the orc miniatures, extremely stylish (although think I would probably paint them something other than green).

Might be better to wait for a few samples to appear though from the comments above...

I do apologise for the assumption I wrongly made about the material RH is using - in my defense they did not specify who was handling it in the update I read and did not really explain it's properties in detail other than what sounded to me like characteristics of "pvc" as described by someone who did not want to call it that. I did not know they switched materials since I dropped that KS when I thought they were going the pvc route.

While perhaps a bit off-topic - materials used is interesting in the discussion - is this spin cast resin the same as trollcast or something different? I remember reading about trollcast with great interest a few years back when Ed was experimenting with it, but I have never handled the material myself so I don't have any personal knowledge about it's properties in practice.

We should probably avoid going into the details of trollcast in this thread, guys, as it is pretty much in it's own class- similar to hand cast resin in some ways, but not as reliable. It is not at all like the PVC used here. Personally, I Really love trollcast!

Other than that one thing, your post was excellent basement.dweller, and is exactly how I feel about PVC. Quoting it below:

 basement.dweller wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
... and of course poor quality casts result in mold lines that are very difficult to remove.

THAT there... That is the core problem I have with pvc figures (other than soft edges and details). Cleaning up where there are details is a chore I would not want to inflict on anyone. Some intelligent mold creator can avoid that to some degree, but if these are being spincast and/or done in as few pieces as possible during production it will be hard to avoid moldlines in crucial areas. I recently bought a PP "plastic" figure and I was surprised by the properties of the material as in I could actually sand and scrape it and properly clean the model - So I do think there is hope for pvc depending on what mix of plasticizers are being used etc. Having said that I found the details quite soft on the range of PP figures I got (basically the models from the 2-player Hordes starter - cheap auction to satisfy my curiosity) compared to both normal plastic and metal. I don't know if that has to do with the material properties or if the sculpts were "soft" to begin with. I am thinking it's a tradeoff effect. Better details come with that "hard" pvc that is a bitch to clean.

In essence we all know pvc is here to stay - mostly because it makes figures affordable to us and profitable to produce in this way. Given there is no standard in this material or a goto factory that ensures a specific quality as of yet like with polystyrene (WGF) - it becomes a matter of how much you want a specific model or game. Since Sedition Wars and Mantics antics, I won't be backing anything in "restic", "pvc", "hard plastic (that isn't polystyrene)" <snip> unless I can sample it first or until there is a recognised standard.

At this point I want to see how the rules pan out more than anything else.

Zond wrote:
At this point I want to see how the rules pan out more than anything else.

They said there would be gameplay videos before the end of the campaign.

I was luke warm going into this KS but the Elves have really gotten me excited about this KS.

I'm with you there in terms of excitement generated by concept art and resin masters!

I just wish I hadn't been stung by "PVC" so many times...

We posted a new video :


Also, about "Restic" and PVC and the difference between the two.
PVC can be squishy and soft as a fresh turd (Restic) but it can also be hard as nail (did you try to bend your plumbing recently ?). It depends on how you make it and what kind of "solidifier" you use.

Most companies use a cheap solidifier (for costs reasons) and you get this gooey resin-like mini that bends with the heat of your hands, melts in the sun and has so many flashes you could make another mini with these.
Our plan is to use the high grade solidifier to get the details crisp and genuine and avoid to the maximum the "bendable incidents". We owe our backers (and future customers) this quality. It will be more expensive and that was taken into consideration in our KS prices too.

Our manufacturer is a specialist of the gaming industry and knows the drill better than anyone. We will be there all the time to triple check the quality. And of course any defective product would be replaced at no cost. But we know it's unlikely to happen.

Don't let other companies and other experiences fool you into thinking everything is always the same.

finally, the next video (about gameplay) will be online very soon too.

Alright.... you've got me back to 'cautiously optimistic' now...

You might want to fix the link to the Kickstarter in the first post. The final closed bracket is backwards so the link isn't working.

Really wish I had jumped on to the original Elemental 555 level when it went up but didn't think I would be backing so didn't want to keep one away from someone who would see the campaign out but have since been convinced otherwise.

It was more than just that bracket!

But anyway, it is all set now!

I'm a bit interested in this "solidifier comment"

If it is anything like PVC pipe than that is no encouragement. I've worked with a lot with pvc pipes. You have to shave/slice it or cut it. You can file it, but it take great effort. Scrapping it leaves the pvc rough and bumpy.

Knives do cut in a lot better with PVC pipe than the pvc used in sedition wars, but you have to really watch the amount of pressure, as you can slip and go further into your work than intended.

Would be interested to see if you have any current examples of such a material, especially since you have a knowledge. Are you aware of a manufacturer that produces such?

Edit:

What is the typical model count for this game? I'm hoping 10 to 15ish and not 40 to 50+

@Piston Honda - I suggest reading the wiki entry for pvc - it's quite informative and lists different types of additives and effects. The most interesting perhaps is that plasticizers makes it softer and rigid pvc uses metal-based stabilizers...

@Don't Panic
Your description of Restic doesn't sound like the Restic I have seen. Sedition wars and Mantic's material is not soft and gooey, it is hard, hard pvc. The only soft and gooey pvc I know of is Reaper Bones or the prepaints. So is your material going to be the same as Sedition Wars and Mantic's miniatures, or is it something even different?

 Alpharius wrote:
Alright.... you've got me back to 'cautiously optimistic' now...

That's the spirit.

Thanks for fixing the link too.

The typical count for this game ? As many as you want, you can have a lot of fun with just the starter, you can double it and have a lot of fun without having twice the same ending to the game.

We playtested some game with 3 mages, 15 vortexes and a boatload of minis and we had a LOOOONG fun game.

 DontPanicGames CM wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Alright.... you've got me back to 'cautiously optimistic' now...

That's the spirit.

Thanks for fixing the link too.

The typical count for this game ? As many as you want, you can have a lot of fun with just the starter, you can double it and have a lot of fun without having twice the same ending to the game.

We playtested some game with 3 mages, 15 vortexes and a boatload of minis and we had a LOOOONG fun game.

I don't know what mages or vortexes mean in your game, unfortunately.

Is the game played with a point system?

What would you say the standard model count for a typical game?

Malifaux is about... 6 to 10 models

judging by the starters (please correct me if I am wrong) a game is about 18 to 25 models?

Preview of the free (for Explorer pledge level and above) Kickstarter exclusive Avaren Elf Hero that will be unlocked at $125,000 along with the Elf Army box -

Maybe a different angle will do it, but Aspic doesn't look very good. The knees are in an awkward position, the back knee should not be facing the same direction as the front knee.

We a few thousands dollars from the Elves stretch goal, today, we will post an update explaining the upcoming pledge levels with elves.

In the meantime, let us show you some recent sculpts from our studio.

I really like all of the minis so far.

There's also pics of exactly what the pledge levels contain in update 10:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dontpanicgames/drakerys-the-miniature-game/posts/861932#comments