Well, dude, you blew in and decided to start Dark Eldar a short while ago. You found out the "best" netlists and then you bought a bunch of models so that you could copy them. You've started winning games, so you shouldn't be surprised.
If you're winning in 40k, people are going to accuse you of running cheese regardless of whether or not you are. I'll leave it up to you and your conscience to decide whether or not you're actually running cheese. (If your list consists of 3 identical copies of one unit, 3 identical copies of another, and 4 more or less identical copies of ANOTHER, you might want to take a hard look in the mirror on that one.)
I'm not saying don't run your lists in tournaments. But when you do nothing but spam more-or-less carbon copy units in friendly games, it's going to lead to hurt feelings.
I dont know about cheese, but that list would be extremely boring to play against. As someone who plays the game for the models, I personally find these kinds of armies very lacking. Your army has 5 different models in it. Thats it, everything except Vect is a copy paste of something else.
I don't know why this bugs me as badly as it does, but it does.
I understand that some of his threads are redundant and tiresome, but it's not cool to attack people in this personal a manner. Daly isn't so far gone that he can't be a contributing member of the community, he mostly just seems new. There's no call for the anatomy of a troll posts.
Jimsolo wrote: I understand that some of his threads are redundant and tiresome, but it's not cool to attack people in this personal a manner. Daly isn't so far gone that he can't be a contributing member of the community, he mostly just seems new. There's no call for the anatomy of a troll posts.
New? He has 1300 posts and has been on Dakka for 2 years.
Jimsolo wrote: I understand that some of his threads are redundant and tiresome, but it's not cool to attack people in this personal a manner. Daly isn't so far gone that he can't be a contributing member of the community, he mostly just seems new. There's no call for the anatomy of a troll posts.
Jim,
I respect where you're coming from, but please hear me out.
I've been around Dakka for a long while now (not as long as some, granted, but since late 2006) and sadly I've seen people like Daily come and go. Daily, unlike many of his ilk, seems bound and determined to simply troll, instead of contributing.
I lurk a lot, browse threads and read a fair amount, and this includes posts made by our lovable (sarcasm) Dailymiddlebro. I've yet to read a single opening post, or reply to a thread, where he isn't 'redundant and tiresome'. He revels in trolling like few others I've seen, and I for one find it more than just tiresome at this point. I make it a point to call a spade, a spade. Most of his threads wind up flamefests (which he instigates) and eventually wind up locked.
Review his post history over the last two years. He's no stranger to this behavior.
I'm not going to reply in this thread further, as it really just needs to die, but Jimsolo, if you'd like to chat further about it I would be happy to do so via PM.
I don't get it.. My own casual Sally list would trash that list with little to no effort, and don't get me started on my Gravstar/Thunderfire list.
None of my lists, except for the Gravstar/Thunderfire lsit, can even hold a candle next to the top tier lists, I honestly don't see why this list should be OP. Is it boring as hell to play against as an allcomer in the FLGS? Yeah, that list would be a fast way to lose friends. It is OP? No... definitely not...
Lol, definitely not trolling here. In any event i don't find this list boring to play. Its fun to blot out the sun with poison shots and dark It's fun to be faster than every army, and fluff wise I love kabals the best.
So far, I haven't lost a game yet, and faced IG, white scars, ultra marines, daemons, and heldrake/ nurgle csm. Most games I've pretty much tabled by turn three, but i digress. In any event, i created this thread, because every opponent has cried cheese, even I've faced biker spam, heldrake spam, tigurius dev cents, and Lehman Russ/ vendetta spam. I just don't get it.
And to all my fans, remember rule number one, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all. Have a wonderful day gentlemen.
Dalymiddleboro wrote: Lol, definitely not trolling here. In any event i don't find this list boring to play. Its fun to blot out the sun with poison shots and dark It's fun to be faster than every army, and fluff wise I love kabals the best.
So far, I haven't lost a game yet, and faced IG, white scars, ultra marines, daemons, and heldrake/ nurgle csm. Most games I've pretty much tabled by turn three, but i digress. In any event, i created this thread, because every opponent has cried cheese, even I've faced biker spam, heldrake spam, tigurius dev cents, and Lehman Russ/ vendetta spam. I just don't get it.
And to all my fans, remember rule number one, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all. Have a wonderful day gentlemen.
Emphasis mine. That generally means one of two things: 1) Your list is pure cheddar, or 2) You are an amazing general, a 40k Napoleon or Patton. No offense, but you don't seem like #2, ergo it's #1. You're playing a one-trick pony spam list that's one of the standard netlists for Dark Eldar, and by your own admission tend to destroy anything you come up against, and you don't see why people call your list cheese?
Faced a few netlists like this in my meta when folks were getting gear up for a local tourney, watched one game where Blood Angels ate it up. /shrug
Is it cookie-cutter? Yup, made by min-maxers who studied the codex intensely (or not at all as some armies are concerned). I don't get the question presented by the OP though; you beat every army you face all the time and people cry cheese, and you come on here to ask if it's a cheese list...obvious troll is obvious?
How do you handle Helldrakes or Necron Air force? You said Vendetta and Helldrakes was on the list of things you've faced and beat, but as a DE player myself... How the actual fack did you handle yourself vs Helldrake? Or let me guess, you brought a cheese list and you played vs a nice guy that brought only 1 of those things? Because my simple math hammer suggests that there's less than 1/100th of a chance to do actual damage vs a Helldrake with 5++ with your snap shotting Ravagers and if you're telling me that you managed to table a guy that had 2-3 of those things flying around that obliterates the vast majority of your units, then you're playing vs mentally handicapped people, no offense.
I often field the same list in competitive games, but I win only about half the time. You must either be rolling extremely lucky or your opponents all have crappy lists. The third option is that you are bringing competitive netlists to a non-competitive game, which is heresy and something you should never do, despite this DE netlist being surprisingly fluffy.
Zewrath wrote: How do you handle Helldrakes or Necron Air force? You said Vendetta and Helldrakes was on the list of things you've faced and beat, but as a DE player myself... How the actual fack did you handle yourself vs Helldrake? Or let me guess, you brought a cheese list and you played vs a nice guy that brought only 1 of those things? Because my simple math hammer suggests that there's less than 1/100th of a chance to do actual damage vs a Helldrake with 5++ with your snap shotting Ravagers and if you're telling me that you managed to table a guy that had 2-3 of those things flying around that obliterates the vast majority of your units, then you're playing vs mentally handicapped people, no offense.
Yea, rolled -1 to his reserves as my warlord trait, they came peice mail. And it's not just the ravagers that throw lances at the drake, I also have 4 raiders... Glanced them down with snapshots each. Really wasn't too difficult. Also, when they come on, they'll vector strike a thing, it's not gaurunteed to do damage. after that, the bale flamer is pretty poor against us, and we're quick enough to not get vector struck anymore. It's all about the movement phase man, if you're having trouble with drakes you should get more acquainted with your movement. Vendettas can be a little tougher when they hover, but then we get to throw lances at them at full BS. 4 Raiders with 5 venoms as opposed to 9 venom triple ravager, really helps us with getting more lances on the table for fliers. Hope this helped, thanks!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Iron_Captain wrote: I often field the same list in competitive games, but I win only about half the time. You must either be rolling extremely lucky or your opponents all have crappy lists. The third option is that you are bringing competitive netlists to a non-competitive game, which is heresy and something you should never do, despite this DE netlist being surprisingly fluffy.
This could definitely be more competitive with more venoms, but I like raiders, they're nice and fluffy and fun to play with. I assure you, my opponents have all been good players and have brought good lists (in fact you should be able to tell that, as I gave an overview of what their "netlists" entailed.). I seem to really understand this DE army, and they're much a surgeon scalpel army. So far really haven't had any issues with anything I've faced. It's all pretty much been over by turn 3. However, I in no way see this list as cheesy at all... That's why I created this thread. I mean there's screamer star out there, wave serpent spam et al. I don't feel shamed in bringing this. What else would I take? I like kabals more than wych cults and haemunculi covens. I like the militarized factions of commoragh. I'm bringing the fluff units I enjoy in the codex... So honestly, I don't think there's anything wrong with playing what you like, and my list is far from cheese. Anywho, take it easy!
Vect
5 venoms
4 raiders with splinter racks
3 ravagers
3x 3 trueborn with 2 splinter cannons each
50 warriors 3 w/ splinter cannons
Compared to the armies out there, i hardly view this as cheese...
Seems to be a rather soulless "feth monstrous creatures" list probably taken from the internet.
Sure I'd probably hate throwing my Monster mash or infantry blob lists at that, but your list is seriously short on anti-air and is fairly meh at vehicle killing.
Vect
5 venoms
4 raiders with splinter racks
3 ravagers
3x 3 trueborn with 2 splinter cannons each
50 warriors 3 w/ splinter cannons
Compared to the armies out there, i hardly view this as cheese...
Seems to be a rather soulless "feth monstrous creatures" list probably taken from the internet.
Sure I'd probably hate throwing my Monster mash or infantry blob lists at that, but your list is seriously short on anti-air and is fairly meh at vehicle killing.
You know what this means?
NECRON MAXIMUM THREAT OVERLOAD!
With 13 pretty much table range dark lances on the table, haven't had issues with vehicles yet, once including mechanized guard. When I do start to have issues, I imagine I might bring a unit of blaster born, but so far, so good in that regard.
Also, I didn't copy and paste this from the net, I mean it's general design is arguably a net list, but pretty much today's day in age with regards to how fast information travels, what isn't "inspired" from something else. Hell, if we all didn't take what has worked for others in the past then technology would be lame, music would have like 3 genres and even automobiles wouldn't have as much innovation. "Netlist" isn't an insulting term to me, as any great idea deserves to be repeated.
Vect
5 venoms
4 raiders with splinter racks
3 ravagers
3x 3 trueborn with 2 splinter cannons each
50 warriors 3 w/ splinter cannons
Compared to the armies out there, i hardly view this as cheese...
Seems to be a rather soulless "feth monstrous creatures" list probably taken from the internet.
Sure I'd probably hate throwing my Monster mash or infantry blob lists at that, but your list is seriously short on anti-air and is fairly meh at vehicle killing.
You know what this means?
NECRON MAXIMUM THREAT OVERLOAD!
With 13 pretty much table range dark lances on the table, haven't had issues with vehicles yet, once including mechanized guard. When I do start to have issues, I imagine I might bring a unit of blaster born, but so far, so good in that regard.
Also, I didn't copy and paste this from the net, I mean it's general design is arguably a net list, but pretty much today's day in age with regards to how fast information travels, what isn't "inspired" from something else. Hell, if we all didn't take what has worked for others in the past then technology would be lame, music would have like 3 genres and even automobiles wouldn't have as much innovation. "Netlist" isn't an insulting term to me, as any great idea deserves to be repeated.
Yep my experience lead me to a similar list conclusion
compared to what some codices can put out it is in no way cheesy, wave serpent spam would crap all over it for example.
What really stinks is the ignorance of many about what the Dark Eldar can actually do. And due to ther rarity 'out there' you cause the whines when those venoms with 12 shots per turn go through all sorts of infantry etc with ease, not to mention those 10 trueborn with a lot of shots, the look on peoples faces when they shoot
Yet the army either blows all before it or crumples like tin foil (when that happens i really could hit the wall )
At this rate i may as well spam wave serpents for my eldar you know what curiosity does....
All the times you faced helldrake or vendetta spam you rolled that warlord trait *and* only one came in each time?
Also, how is that enough? Two Dev squads without chapter tactics struggle to drop one Drake a turn, and those outperform dark lances in this regard. For the lances, 1/6 hits, 1/3 pens +1/6 glance, 1/3 are saved. That's about 1/27 pens, 1/54 glances. And pens have less than 50% chance of doing something important.
13 lances will not reliably drop a Drake a turn. Sounds like you got lucky one time, and/or you tailor your list (which is acceptable against Helldrakes I suppose).
Also, just because a Wave Serpent spam list is worse cheese doesn't mean this isn't cheese.
(Also, wouldn't serpent spam eat this, if you are aiming for broken?)
Bharring wrote: All the times you faced helldrake or vendetta spam you rolled that warlord trait *and* only one came in each time?
Also, how is that enough? Two Dev squads without chapter tactics struggle to drop one Drake a turn, and those outperform dark lances in this regard. For the lances, 1/6 hits, 1/3 pens +1/6 glance, 1/3 are saved. That's about 1/27 pens, 1/54 glances. And pens have less than 50% chance of doing something important.
13 lances will not reliably drop a Drake a turn. Sounds like you got lucky one time, and/or you tailor your list (which is acceptable against Helldrakes I suppose).
Also, just because a Wave Serpent spam list is worse cheese doesn't mean this isn't cheese.
(Also, wouldn't serpent spam eat this, if you are aiming for broken?)
13 lances is certainly enough to deal with drakes a turn. Also, with DE manueverability drakes aren't that much of a concern. By the time the drakes come in, we've done our damage, as with vect we're going first 75% of the time. A pair of drakes won't win the game by themselves. Also, with everything in transports, they're really not that effective vs us until things pop, but that's why turn one, we blow up their anti tank first then watch them struggle to do anything while our skimmers do as they please.
Wave serpent spam would absolutely wreck this list. I never stated it wouldn't.
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MWHistorian wrote: Something's not adding up here. You win every game and usually table your opponent by turn 3?
Your "I've won every game I've played" quote shows that your attitude towards the game is geared towards winning, so you've built a list that does that (or perhaps more accurately you've skimmed it off of the web).
If that's the way you want to approach the hobby, then fine. There's nothing illegal here. But don't try to pass this off as anything other than a super competitive list.
Your "I've won every game I've played" quote shows that your attitude towards the game is geared towards winning, so you've built a list that does that (or perhaps more accurately you've skimmed it off of the web).
If that's the way you want to approach the hobby, then fine. There's nothing illegal here. But don't try to pass this off as anything other than a super competitive list.
If this was super competitive, it'd have 9 venoms instead of only 5. Also, stating I've won every game doesn't mean I'm WAAC, is my attitude geared towards winning? Probably, I think everyone while playing wants to win. Regardless of level of competition, nobody wants to lose, lol.
MWHistorian wrote: We're trying to politely say that you come across as a "WAAC" type of player.
Interesting, there's a thread active right now in this forum that helps explain that fielding good lists and wanting to win whilst playing doesn't make you a WAAC player. I advise people to check it out: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/585177.page
MWHistorian wrote: We're trying to politely say that you come across as a "WAAC" type of player.
Interesting, there's a thread active right now in this forum that helps explain that fielding good lists and wanting to win whilst playing doesn't make you a WAAC player. I advise people to check it out: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/585177.page
But your attitude sure does. You field a cheese list (whether or not it's the epitome of cheese, as in your "If I was WAAC I'd field 9 of them" comment), it's still cheese, you have admitted yourself that you win every game you play and usually table your opponent, and you've said in the prior thread that anyone upset that you've tabled them needs to "grow up", showing that you don't care if somebody else is having fun playing against your "not cheese" cheese list. You've also been extremely defensive of anything that doesn't put things in your favor. That's why you come across like a WAAC player: You're only out for your own enjoyment, and screw anybody else. That's the definition of TFG and a WAAC player.
It's rather telling that everyone who has disagreed with you, you have some semi-condescending words to defend yourself and play it up like you're innocent.
As I said before, speaking as an internet troll this is all classic troll behavior, so don't be surprised when people are leery.
MWHistorian wrote: We're trying to politely say that you come across as a "WAAC" type of player.
Interesting, there's a thread active right now in this forum that helps explain that fielding good lists and wanting to win whilst playing doesn't make you a WAAC player. I advise people to check it out: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/585177.page
Thank you for teaching us how wrong we are for thinking that you're a WAAC player. Surely we're all no-nothings as compared to your vast experience on the subject.
MWHistorian wrote: We're trying to politely say that you come across as a "WAAC" type of player.
Interesting, there's a thread active right now in this forum that helps explain that fielding good lists and wanting to win whilst playing doesn't make you a WAAC player. I advise people to check it out: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/585177.page
But your attitude sure does. You field a cheese list (whether or not it's the epitome of cheese, as in your "If I was WAAC I'd field 9 of them" comment), it's still cheese, you have admitted yourself that you win every game you play and usually table your opponent, and you've said in the prior thread that anyone upset that you've tabled them needs to "grow up", showing that you don't care if somebody else is having fun playing against your "not cheese" cheese list. You've also been extremely defensive of anything that doesn't put things in your favor. That's why you come across like a WAAC player: You're only out for your own enjoyment, and screw anybody else. That's the definition of TFG and a WAAC player.
It's rather telling that everyone who has disagreed with you, you have some semi-condescending words to defend yourself and play it up like you're innocent.
As I said before, speaking as an internet troll this is all classic troll behavior, so don't be surprised when people are leery.
An army that's all T3 5+ armor need transports. So when I Take transports I'm cheese? There's no fliers in this list, nothing insanely overpowered either... This list isn't cheese and isn't even close to the most competitive thing DE can bring. There's not even a beast star. So I'll have to agree with you there.
Also, if other people aren't having fun, why are they playing? Seems like if this is the type of hobby that can make people throw their stuff around and have a temper tantrum, then they should look into other ways to spend their time. Also, as stated before, I don't care enough about peoples opinions to even begin to troll. Anywho, have a great day man and happy wargaming!
scottmmmm wrote: The other thing that gets me is why bother with this thread. You clearly don't value our feedback, so why post?
I think one of the fist commenters was right. You enjoy trolling. That's the only explanation for this thread.
There's been people in this thread that have agreed this isn't cheese.
But if you don't care about what people online say, why does that matter?
None of this matters, I work help desk and have time to kill. Was wondering peoples' thoughts on the subject. Will it affect me? Nope. Just was curious what the community thought while I had time to kill. Doesn't mean their opinions matter enough to resinate with me.
Fight Tau, even a BAD Tau player would make you cry.
Your list essentially relies on vast 4+ poisons as a number crunch method to push wounds (Which is vastly seen as cheese and unfun to play against) Where most other armies have to rely on dice to actually give them that 1-2 lucky shots here and there. When you bring 250+ poison 4+ dice to a game, you'll find yourself very lonely in a friendly game environment. Tournament wise, go for it.
Your list essentially relies on vast 4+ poisons as a number crunch method to push wounds (Which is vastly seen as cheese and unfun to play against) Where most other armies have to rely on dice to actually give them that 1-2 lucky shots here and there. When you bring 250+ poison 4+ dice to a game, you'll find yourself very lonely in a friendly game environment. Tournament wise, go for it.
Playing them today! I'll let ya know how it goes!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Off to my game gents! Wishe me luck!
Ok so will try to be a bit more productive here and try to give advice on how to stop the whinging in your FLGS (rather than who points the finger of WAAC):
So you seem to enjoy the fluff behind your army whilst having a good force, correct?
Ok then, by following that here is what you should do:
A) It seems that you like the Kabal route with the use of Vect and Kabalite warriors
B ) Get rid of the Venoms. You're playing a Kabal, not a gladiator arena.
C) Get Dias for Vect and pack up on the Raiders fill the Venom slots in with Raiders.
Should look a lot more reflective on the background and still a good force to boot on the battlefield, being a lot more TAC and should stop your opponents from grumbling
Meh I am not overly impressed nor worried about the list. But yes, it dose reek of both chedar and other dairy products.
And I agree with the person above me
As a long time competitive DE player, this list is mid tier at best. Top of the DE pile is still Venom spam and Eldar/DE Beaststar.
But yeah, when a halfway competent DE list wins, its still tends to win big so people may call cheese. Its why I don't play DE in casual games. Or really play that many casual games, as most of my lists are tournament orientate and beating up casual players is no fun for them and teaches me nothing about the capability of my list.
To make your list a little more fun for your opponents, because seriously, copy/pasting min/maxed units to the nines is boring as feth, try some of the following:
- Put Vect on his Dias as suggested already.
- Grab a Kabalite squad on foot of 12-15 grunts + 2x Dark Lances. They can camp home objectives, and aren't as frustrating to chase about as a bunch of tiny Venom squads worth barely 150pts a pop.
- Trade out one unit of Splinter Cannon Trueborn for some Blasterborn.
- Bring your completely absent messenger Scourges - seriously, how the feth do you threaten your opponents in proper Dark Eldar fashion without your messenger boys to carry the severed heads to the enemy commander?!
- Add a few Sybarites to help keep the lackies from getting delusions of grandeur, as well as add some character to your Kabalites. (not every squad, but seriously, at least a couple!)
- Incubi are a must in any self-respecting Kabalite themed army, especially during less hyper competitive friendly pick-up games.
Heck, even just a token squad of 5 in a Venom who can pounce on depleted squads to finish them off would be a nice touch!
Do at least a couple of the above, and your list won't come across as nearly so harsh, especially vs. opponents who aren't exactly just "in it to win it."
Experiment 626 wrote: - Incubi are a must in any self-respecting Kabalite themed army
And if you decide to take Eldar allies, you can than throw in Drazher and Karandras and have them both run with the Incubi, because nothing is sweeter than the tears of the fluff-monkeys.
Experiment 626 wrote: - Incubi are a must in any self-respecting Kabalite themed army
And if you decide to take Eldar allies, you can than throw in Drazher and Karandras and have them both run with the Incubi, because nothing is sweeter than the tears of the fluff-monkeys.
Convert 2 additional 'chainblade' arms + a bald Daemonette headswap to Karandras, call him Ahrah the Father of Scorpions, and enjoy the fact that the super fluff-monkeys can't argue it while still being highly offended at the same time!
Zewrath wrote: How do you handle Helldrakes or Necron Air force? You said Vendetta and Helldrakes was on the list of things you've faced and beat, but as a DE player myself... How the actual fack did you handle yourself vs Helldrake? Or let me guess, you brought a cheese list and you played vs a nice guy that brought only 1 of those things? Because my simple math hammer suggests that there's less than 1/100th of a chance to do actual damage vs a Helldrake with 5++ with your snap shotting Ravagers and if you're telling me that you managed to table a guy that had 2-3 of those things flying around that obliterates the vast majority of your units, then you're playing vs mentally handicapped people, no offense.
Yea, rolled -1 to his reserves as my warlord trait, they came peice mail. And it's not just the ravagers that throw lances at the drake, I also have 4 raiders... Glanced them down with snapshots each. Really wasn't too difficult. Also, when they come on, they'll vector strike a thing, it's not gaurunteed to do damage. after that, the bale flamer is pretty poor against us, and we're quick enough to not get vector struck anymore. It's all about the movement phase man, if you're having trouble with drakes you should get more acquainted with your movement. Vendettas can be a little tougher when they hover, but then we get to throw lances at them at full BS. 4 Raiders with 5 venoms as opposed to 9 venom triple ravager, really helps us with getting more lances on the table for fliers. Hope this helped, thanks!
So you're now trying to lecture me now? You're seriously saying that a warlord trait that you get 1/6th of the time + the math that the other guy posted with chance to glance vs helldrakes is a solution? What? Their vector strike requires 3+ to pen you and ignores cover, their flamer can re-roll pens/wounds so he will ALWAYS destroy any of your unit that actually matters if he wishes to do so.
Tau will drop this list, not without effort though. Wave Serpent spam will drop this list. A good Gravstar will drop this list.
Also, drop the attitude, I know all about DE movement, pivoting for extra inches and premeassure. Also, your comment about Vendettas going into hover mode, allowing every single lance weapon to drop it, confirmed my suspicion that you're indeed playing vs mentally handicapped and you're proud enough to pummel those kind of people with your cookie cutter list.
Not really going to agree with the die hard math hammerers out there but this is even seeming a little fishy to me. You are telling me that in the 5 games you have played that every game was against one of the "feared" net lists that other armies bring to the table? Sorry mate something is not adding up there. And honestly the list doesn't bother me at all but your apparent attitude is. Perhaps I am mistaken but if you post a thread for feedback and spend the rest of the thread fighting against people who disagree with your opinion why post the thread at all? I am going to have to go with that your opponents are either not that good of players (nothing personal against them, just may need to play the game more) or the lists you are facing are not on par with the list you are fielding.
Yes it has a lot of Dark Lances and yes it can put out a good volume of shots, and either you are extremely lucky that night fighting, rolling on the armor pen table, reserve rolls, ect. have yet to come into play or something else is going on. In regards to the list itself I am a competitive player (not at all a WAAC player, just like bringing competitive lists as bringing my A game vs someone elses A game is fun) so this list would be an interesting challenge for my Elysians, however if your opponents are not bringing lists up to this caliber you need to be willing to dumb down yours to make it a fun game as others may not have the money for models or just play the game for fun. Even then there is something you are either not mentioning because it sounds to good to be true with the stories you are telling. If you have fun winning games by turn 3 with your opponent unable to do anything then have fun mate, as you can see if you keep it up people wont want to play you.
So much personally geared bias and hate in this thread....
Annnyywaaayyyyy, there is no yes or no answer to your original question, but basically, if you ever see any sort of competitive lists in your meta, there is no foot to stand on to call this build cheese. Even if you don't, its a decent list, far from perfect, has massive holes (A. its Dark Eldar who are sometimes even auto-lose vs specific armies B. you are very low on lances), and Dark Eldar even built perfectly isn't a cheese army its one of the lower powered ones.
Filling up all your infantry in transports? Anyone who plays DE for a while will quickly see that is the most sensible thing to do. Other than infantry squads in transports, there isn't much else you can take for this style of list that makes it less cheesy but doesn't feel like deliberately kneecapping yourself and taking away from the theme of your list. Pain Engines are going to be an expensive waste of points here, there are no tanks in this army other than Ravagers, take fliers with this and you will be called even more cheesy, Reavers (and other fast attack units) work but don't necessarily make the list much different.
The fact is, this is what this style of list does, and it is a very sensible way to play DE. People call anything that beats them, and anything with even light spam, cheese. Ask them for their Dark Eldar list and how they would build it. Watch the responses of gak like walking units of Warriors, Hexatrix Bloodbrides and Incubi. Ignore these people who have no idea how your army needs to be play and let them go back to their IG and Heldrake CSM.
If it is bothering you I'd recommend dropping 2 Venoms and a Raider for some fast attack units. Beastmasters Reavers or Scourges will fit in nicely, and you'll have a bit more variation in your list. Or just tell people to grow up.
Is it bad that I personally know dalymiddleboro, and have for almost 7 years now, and the guy he is here on the forums isn't a thing what he is like in person. It's adorable that he is such a douche to internet strangers when he is a carebear in real life.
Sorry to blow up your spot buddy, you know I love ya like family, but tone it down. You make yourself and people who personally know you feel awkward for knowing you on the internet. Be yourself, and I'm sure the nice people of Dakka will love ya like I do =)
PS, your crap spam DE list is gonna get tabled by my mediocre space marines this weekend. You'll like it =)
Annnddd yet again the thread has spiraled out of controll.
Like every other one.
Common denominator.....Daly
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and also while looking threw Daly's posting history... a LOT have been in introductions. And from somebody who values people based on their post count (True story, Daly said it), I believe this is just to up his posts. Fun fact of the day.
I will value people based on reasonable, well thought out and logical arguments, regardless of if they agree with mine or not, wit and humour in those posts and the demonstration of an ability to not take things too seriously, nor incite others to do so.
Mike94656 wrote: Is it bad that I personally know dalymiddleboro, and have for almost 7 years now, and the guy he is here on the forums isn't a thing what he is like in person. It's adorable that he is such a douche to internet strangers when he is a carebear in real life.
Sorry to blow up your spot buddy, you know I love ya like family, but tone it down. You make yourself and people who personally know you feel awkward for knowing you on the internet. Be yourself, and I'm sure the nice people of Dakka will love ya like I do =)
PS, your crap spam DE list is gonna get tabled by my mediocre space marines this weekend. You'll like it =)
Bro, do you even lift? Also, I'm like 90 wins and two losses against you. Take a few breaths pal.
Mike94656 wrote: Is it bad that I personally know dalymiddleboro, and have for almost 7 years now, and the guy he is here on the forums isn't a thing what he is like in person. It's adorable that he is such a douche to internet strangers when he is a carebear in real life.
Sorry to blow up your spot buddy, you know I love ya like family, but tone it down. You make yourself and people who personally know you feel awkward for knowing you on the internet. Be yourself, and I'm sure the nice people of Dakka will love ya like I do =)
PS, your crap spam DE list is gonna get tabled by my mediocre space marines this weekend. You'll like it =)
Bro, do you even lift? Also, I'm like 90 wins and two losses against you. Take a few breaths pal.
Mike94656 wrote: Is it bad that I personally know dalymiddleboro, and have for almost 7 years now, and the guy he is here on the forums isn't a thing what he is like in person. It's adorable that he is such a douche to internet strangers when he is a carebear in real life.
Sorry to blow up your spot buddy, you know I love ya like family, but tone it down. You make yourself and people who personally know you feel awkward for knowing you on the internet. Be yourself, and I'm sure the nice people of Dakka will love ya like I do =)
PS, your crap spam DE list is gonna get tabled by my mediocre space marines this weekend. You'll like it =)
Bro, do you even lift? Also, I'm like 90 wins and two losses against you. Take a few breaths pal.
A lot of this is playgroup dependent, if your playgroup is not, competitive then your list is too good.
That said, DE were always a poorly designed codex IMO because they hard counter certain armies due to mass poisoned shooting. SO if you are facing those armies it will likely not be a fun game.
Mike94656 wrote: Is it bad that I personally know dalymiddleboro, and have for almost 7 years now, and the guy he is here on the forums isn't a thing what he is like in person. It's adorable that he is such a douche to internet strangers when he is a carebear in real life.
Sorry to blow up your spot buddy, you know I love ya like family, but tone it down. You make yourself and people who personally know you feel awkward for knowing you on the internet. Be yourself, and I'm sure the nice people of Dakka will love ya like I do =)
PS, your crap spam DE list is gonna get tabled by my mediocre space marines this weekend. You'll like it =)
You found a friend. How nice.
Now you just need to convince yourself that he represents the majority of the attitudes presented in this thread.
You could take lessons from GW. They also stuff their fingers in their ears and go: "La la la la. I can't hear you!".
Mike94656 wrote: Is it bad that I personally know dalymiddleboro, and have for almost 7 years now, and the guy he is here on the forums isn't a thing what he is like in person. It's adorable that he is such a douche to internet strangers when he is a carebear in real life.
Sorry to blow up your spot buddy, you know I love ya like family, but tone it down. You make yourself and people who personally know you feel awkward for knowing you on the internet. Be yourself, and I'm sure the nice people of Dakka will love ya like I do =)
PS, your crap spam DE list is gonna get tabled by my mediocre space marines this weekend. You'll like it =)
Oh ya and is he really 29??? He doesnt act like it
You run no Lord of War, no allies, no fortifications, no 'deathstar'.
That isn't cheese, that's a competitive army from a lower tier codex which has been hit exceptionally hard by 6th.
Tell them to stfu.
DE haven't been hit hard by 6th, they where freaking incredible until Codex: Waveserpent hit the shelves. 4+ waveserpents and there isnt much a DE list can do. But luckily wave serpent spam seems to be getting flushed from the meta by all the deathstar lists. Something that DEs top list (venom spam) is VERY well equipped to deal with. Which has always been DEs role, as a foil for the meta. You can build your list to deal with 98% of whats out there and then a list with 9 venoms, 3 ravagers, and a beastpack rolls up and ruins your day.
In my opinion every list that fills all its slots with almost the same units reveals some kind of WAAC attitude. While it isnt the most competitive list out there it smells somehow like cheese.
I just started a DE army and there are so many nice options in this codex, that i couldnt understand why I should only take one unit type in every slot. There is only one thing thats hard to avoid... multiple transports of the same Kind, cause you need them for mobility.
Your list is a typical spam list and there is no way to deny it. It will crush most of the guys who said they will defeat your list easily, cause most people dont even know what Dark Eldar CAN do. But its all the same with spam lists... rock, paper, scissors... some lists will kick your a.. badly.
If a casual gamer calls you list cheese he is absolutely right... all those Helldrakespam, Riptidespam, Bikerspam, XXXspam players just deserve it... they arent better than you.
Steelmage99 wrote: You found a friend. How nice.
Now you just need to convince yourself that he represents the majority of the attitudes presented in this thread.
You could take lessons from GW. They also stuff their fingers in their ears and go: "La la la la. I can't hear you!".
BTW, how did your game go?
It was the relic, and I finished his last unit off the table by turn 5. It was bloody and only had 2 ravagers, 7 kabalite warriors, and 3 splinterborn left on the table, but I still technically tabled tau. Instant deathing broadsides ftw.
MasterOfGaunts wrote: In my opinion every list that fills all its slots with almost the same units reveals some kind of WAAC attitude. While it isnt the most competitive list out there it smells somehow like cheese.
I just started a DE army and there are so many nice options in this codex, that i couldnt understand why I should only take one unit type in every slot. There is only one thing thats hard to avoid... multiple transports of the same Kind, cause you need them for mobility.
Your list is a typical spam list and there is no way to deny it. It will crush most of the guys who said they will defeat your list easily, cause most people dont even know what Dark Eldar CAN do. But its all the same with spam lists... rock, paper, scissors... some lists will kick your a.. badly.
If a casual gamer calls you list cheese he is absolutely right... all those Helldrakespam, Riptidespam, Bikerspam, XXXspam players just deserve it... they arent better than you.
Regards...
I don't think this is quite fair. DE are a Glass cannon, and in order to win consistantly, they need to win big. They cannot afford to engage in anything resembling a fair fight, be it in shooting or CC. As such, DE lists suffer disporpotionly higher from taking "non-optimal" units in a list as it takes away from the ability to remove threats that WILL hurt the fragile DE units. There are a few DE units that are relatively durable, but outside the beastpack, all these units (grots, pain engines) lack the ability to do the kind of damage necessary to keep the rest of the DE army alive and active. Haemonculi Coven lists are good at losing slowly, but not much else.
All these reasons are why I had stated earlier that I don't play my DE in casual games, They win big or they lose big and against a non-optimized list, they win big, fast, and hard. Which isnt really fun for anyone involved. But in tournaments they are great for keeping Daemons, Tau, and SM Biker lists in check .
MasterOfGaunts wrote: In my opinion every list that fills all its slots with almost the same units reveals some kind of WAAC attitude.
That's why I was a bit worried about only having Dire Avengers as my Troops choice. It's not spaming, surely, as there are negatives for this choice, like no heavy weapon batteries?!
Steelmage99 wrote: You found a friend. How nice.
Now you just need to convince yourself that he represents the majority of the attitudes presented in this thread.
You could take lessons from GW. They also stuff their fingers in their ears and go: "La la la la. I can't hear you!".
BTW, how did your game go?
It was the relic, and I finished his last unit off the table by turn 5. It was bloody and only had 2 ravagers, 7 kabalite warriors, and 3 splinterborn left on the table, but I still technically tabled tau. Instant deathing broadsides ftw.
What a surprise, yet another army that you table. You must be the Napoleon of 40k, or you play people that don't know what they're doing.
Steelmage99 wrote: You found a friend. How nice.
Now you just need to convince yourself that he represents the majority of the attitudes presented in this thread.
You could take lessons from GW. They also stuff their fingers in their ears and go: "La la la la. I can't hear you!".
BTW, how did your game go?
It was the relic, and I finished his last unit off the table by turn 5. It was bloody and only had 2 ravagers, 7 kabalite warriors, and 3 splinterborn left on the table, but I still technically tabled tau. Instant deathing broadsides ftw.
What a surprise, yet another army that you table. You must be the Napoleon of 40k, or you play people that don't know what they're doing.
It's fine though, he only had 12 models left this time
MasterOfGaunts wrote: In my opinion every list that fills all its slots with almost the same units reveals some kind of WAAC attitude. While it isnt the most competitive list out there it smells somehow like cheese.
I just started a DE army and there are so many nice options in this codex, that i couldnt understand why I should only take one unit type in every slot. There is only one thing thats hard to avoid... multiple transports of the same Kind, cause you need them for mobility.
Your list is a typical spam list and there is no way to deny it. It will crush most of the guys who said they will defeat your list easily, cause most people dont even know what Dark Eldar CAN do. But its all the same with spam lists... rock, paper, scissors... some lists will kick your a.. badly.
If a casual gamer calls you list cheese he is absolutely right... all those Helldrakespam, Riptidespam, Bikerspam, XXXspam players just deserve it... they arent better than you.
Regards...
I don't think this is quite fair. DE are a Glass cannon, and in order to win consistantly, they need to win big. They cannot afford to engage in anything resembling a fair fight, be it in shooting or CC. As such, DE lists suffer disporpotionly higher from taking "non-optimal" units in a list as it takes away from the ability to remove threats that WILL hurt the fragile DE units. There are a few DE units that are relatively durable, but outside the beastpack, all these units (grots, pain engines) lack the ability to do the kind of damage necessary to keep the rest of the DE army alive and active. Haemonculi Coven lists are good at losing slowly, but not much else.
All these reasons are why I had stated earlier that I don't play my DE in casual games, They win big or they lose big and against a non-optimized list, they win big, fast, and hard. Which isnt really fun for anyone involved. But in tournaments they are great for keeping Daemons, Tau, and SM Biker lists in check .
I think you misunderstood my point. I dont say you have to play fair as a DE player. But there is no need for spamming (except transports) in this codex. You might not hit as hard as a tournament list, but you can still kick most armies a.... if you play them well. Maxing out the best units and wondering why people are crying about cheese is somehow strange.
Steelmage99 wrote: You found a friend. How nice.
Now you just need to convince yourself that he represents the majority of the attitudes presented in this thread.
You could take lessons from GW. They also stuff their fingers in their ears and go: "La la la la. I can't hear you!".
BTW, how did your game go?
It was the relic, and I finished his last unit off the table by turn 5. It was bloody and only had 2 ravagers, 7 kabalite warriors, and 3 splinterborn left on the table, but I still technically tabled tau. Instant deathing broadsides ftw.
What a surprise, yet another army that you table. You must be the Napoleon of 40k, or you play people that don't know what they're doing.
Or maybe DE arent as week as you might think and his list is a Little bit cheesy and he might have some talent?
Considering even my friendly Eldar list would waste this with little problem, I'm certainly not considering this cheese. It is a mono-build concept that was designed a while ago on the net and isn't that impressive at all. Sorry OP, but this list isn't that good...more than likely you only play against people who are your antithesis.
Can we begin a kickstarter to fund sending Daly to the home club of everyone saying they could waste his list with their standard army? We could turn it in to a series of battle reports (and perhaps even film and dramatize it into a wargaming version of The Wrestler, depending on results)!
Fragile wrote: Or maybe hes the top player in his meta and it really doesnt matter what he plays.
Might also be possible. You' ll only know if you face him in a game. I just dont like people who keep on telling they would kill XY easily cause theire lists are so much better than the one of XY. Thats not objective and not a bit better than the OP...
Steelmage99 wrote: You found a friend. How nice.
Now you just need to convince yourself that he represents the majority of the attitudes presented in this thread.
You could take lessons from GW. They also stuff their fingers in their ears and go: "La la la la. I can't hear you!".
BTW, how did your game go?
It was the relic, and I finished his last unit off the table by turn 5. It was bloody and only had 2 ravagers, 7 kabalite warriors, and 3 splinterborn left on the table, but I still technically tabled tau. Instant deathing broadsides ftw.
What a surprise, yet another army that you table. You must be the Napoleon of 40k, or you play people that don't know what they're doing.
MWHistorian wrote: Why bother defending him? He doesn't care what you think.
Its not about defending him... its about telling people that they arent better when they say that they ve got the bigger one...
Fair point.
Honestly, I think that list would have more than a fair chance against my SOB army, but it isn't weak and it isn't cheese.
My IF army would stand a better chance...maybe.
Can't say for sure because I've never played him.
Steelmage99 wrote: You found a friend. How nice.
Now you just need to convince yourself that he represents the majority of the attitudes presented in this thread.
You could take lessons from GW. They also stuff their fingers in their ears and go: "La la la la. I can't hear you!".
BTW, how did your game go?
It was the relic, and I finished his last unit off the table by turn 5. It was bloody and only had 2 ravagers, 7 kabalite warriors, and 3 splinterborn left on the table, but I still technically tabled tau. Instant deathing broadsides ftw.
What a surprise, yet another army that you table. You must be the Napoleon of 40k, or you play people that don't know what they're doing.
I can post pics to prove my battles if you'd like
I can post pics proving the existence of Bigfoot. Doesn't make it any more or less real.
Well if we got something like a battle report it would really help. Like if we could see what kind of field is used, how they deployed, and a simple turn by turn break down.
That way we can see why people are getting tabled and see if you're just always rolling insanely well.
I'm happy to post a battle report when I get home. It was actually a very bloody awesome game, despite the tau player getting tabled at the last min turn 5. Closer than most DE games go.
Steelmage99 wrote: You found a friend. How nice.
Now you just need to convince yourself that he represents the majority of the attitudes presented in this thread.
You could take lessons from GW. They also stuff their fingers in their ears and go: "La la la la. I can't hear you!".
BTW, how did your game go?
It was the relic, and I finished his last unit off the table by turn 5. It was bloody and only had 2 ravagers, 7 kabalite warriors, and 3 splinterborn left on the table, but I still technically tabled tau. Instant deathing broadsides ftw.
What a surprise, yet another army that you table. You must be the Napoleon of 40k, or you play people that don't know what they're doing.
I can post pics to prove my battles if you'd like
I can post pics proving the existence of Bigfoot. Doesn't make it any more or less real.
Lmao, listen to yourself! I don't have any obligation to justify anything to you because you're a complete stranger, but I have better things to do than lie about victories in toy soldiers. But if you must know, since picking up Dark Eldar a month ago, my record is 6 wins and zero losses. 4 of those wins being complete tabling. The armies faced have been:
Imperial guard
Tyranids
Space Marines
Space Marines w/ imperial guard allies
Chaos Space Marines
Tau
Right, so either your list is total cheese (doesn't matter if it's not uber cheese, still can be cheese), or your tactical acumen is on par with Napoleon, or your regular opponents are just bad. The fact you seem to have picked up what is largely considered one of the most unforgiven and "hard" armies to play a month ago yet have utterly destroyed most everybody you've played is what smells fishy.
That's no shot at you, as maybe you really are that good at picking up an army or maybe your opponents just aren't very tactical, but it doesn't excuse the fact that your army is a pretty standard netlist type Dark Eldar army (hence cheesey in some regard) and your attitude overall seems like one that only wants praise, not criticism. You seem to have expected people to say that your list is not cheese at all, and that you must be a superb player, given how defensive you've gotten when somebody questions it.
WayneTheGame wrote: Right, so either your list is total cheese (doesn't matter if it's not uber cheese, still can be cheese), or your tactical acumen is on par with Napoleon, or your regular opponents are just bad. The fact you seem to have picked up what is largely considered one of the most unforgiven and "hard" armies to play a month ago yet have utterly destroyed most everybody you've played is what smells fishy.
That's no shot at you, as maybe you really are that good at picking up an army or maybe your opponents just aren't very tactical, but it doesn't excuse the fact that your army is a pretty standard netlist type Dark Eldar army (hence cheesey in some regard) and your attitude overall seems like one that only wants praise, not criticism. You seem to have expected people to say that your list is not cheese at all, and that you must be a superb player, given how defensive you've gotten when somebody questions it.
I don't know if I'm a good player or not. I've played 5 different armies, in different metas and states and haven't lost many games at all. I'm just arguing that the list isn't cheese because it's running transports and heavy support. The transports as admitted in this thread are 100% neccessary... So are my ravagers making this cheese? It's only a 3 lance platform...
I don't know if I'm a good player or not. I've played 5 different armies, in different metas and states and haven't lost many games at all. I'm just arguing that the list isn't cheese because it's running transports and heavy support. The transports as admitted in this thread are 100% neccessary... So are my ravagers making this cheese? It's only a 3 lance platform...
LOL this is the most hilarious statement I've read. "The list cannot be Cheese because I'm running Transports and Heavy Support."
So this isn't cheese either then
Spirit Seer
6 x 5 Dire Avenger Squads in Serpents
3 Wraithknights
Like I said before cheese is respective to your meta, in a meta with worse players, or non-competitve lists your army is going to run roughshod, because it is a strong list. If your local players don't enjoy playing it then it is a problem that you should address (you shouldn't have to but thanks for the balance GW).
I don't know if I'm a good player or not. I've played 5 different armies, in different metas and states and haven't lost many games at all. I'm just arguing that the list isn't cheese because it's running transports and heavy support. The transports as admitted in this thread are 100% neccessary... So are my ravagers making this cheese? It's only a 3 lance platform...
LOL this is the most hilarious statement I've read. "The list cannot be Cheese because I'm running Transports and Heavy Support."
So this isn't cheese either then
Spirit Seer
6 x 5 Dire Avenger Squads in Serpents
3 Wraithknights
Like I said before cheese is respective to your meta, in a meta with worse players, or non-competitve lists your army is going to run roughshod, because it is a strong list. If your local players don't enjoy playing it then it is a problem that you should address (you shouldn't have to but thanks for the balance GW).
Serpents are a much different story, they're tough as nails to crack, have table range with a nice strength gun and they're quick.
Raiders and venoms aren't durable at all. That'd be like somebody calling a space marine list with 6 rhinos "cheesy"...
I can post pics proving the existence of Bigfoot. Doesn't make it any more or less real.
Lmao, listen to yourself! I don't have any obligation to justify anything to you because you're a complete stranger, but I have better things to do than lie about victories in toy soldiers. But if you must know, since picking up Dark Eldar a month ago, my record is 6 wins and zero losses. 4 of those wins being complete tabling. The armies faced have been:
Imperial guard
Tyranids
Space Marines
Space Marines w/ imperial guard allies
Chaos Space Marines
Tau
Also as a side note: Big foot isn't real?
I remain open minded on the subject of Bigfoot.
The sheer volume of these sorts of threads and similar you've started has pretty much made my mind up on the subject of whether you have anything better to do or not.
I can post pics proving the existence of Bigfoot. Doesn't make it any more or less real.
Lmao, listen to yourself! I don't have any obligation to justify anything to you because you're a complete stranger, but I have better things to do than lie about victories in toy soldiers. But if you must know, since picking up Dark Eldar a month ago, my record is 6 wins and zero losses. 4 of those wins being complete tabling. The armies faced have been:
Imperial guard
Tyranids
Space Marines
Space Marines w/ imperial guard allies
Chaos Space Marines
Tau
Also as a side note: Big foot isn't real?
I remain open minded on the subject of Bigfoot.
The sheer volume of these sorts of threads and similar you've started has pretty much made my mind up on the subject of whether you have anything better to do or not.
Lol, think what you wanna think man. I'm glad you're an avid reader of my material. It's always good to have a fanbase.
I don't know if I'm a good player or not. I've played 5 different armies, in different metas and states and haven't lost many games at all. I'm just arguing that the list isn't cheese because it's running transports and heavy support. The transports as admitted in this thread are 100% neccessary... So are my ravagers making this cheese? It's only a 3 lance platform...
LOL this is the most hilarious statement I've read. "The list cannot be Cheese because I'm running Transports and Heavy Support."
So this isn't cheese either then
Spirit Seer
6 x 5 Dire Avenger Squads in Serpents
3 Wraithknights
Like I said before cheese is respective to your meta, in a meta with worse players, or non-competitve lists your army is going to run roughshod, because it is a strong list. If your local players don't enjoy playing it then it is a problem that you should address (you shouldn't have to but thanks for the balance GW).
Serpents are a much different story, they're tough as nails to crack, have table range with a nice strength gun and they're quick.
Raiders and venoms aren't durable at all. That'd be like somebody calling a space marine list with 6 rhinos "cheesy"...
ha if rhino had guns worth a dam, a mobile cover save, and was oppened tops then abosultly
I can post pics proving the existence of Bigfoot. Doesn't make it any more or less real.
Lmao, listen to yourself! I don't have any obligation to justify anything to you because you're a complete stranger, but I have better things to do than lie about victories in toy soldiers. But if you must know, since picking up Dark Eldar a month ago, my record is 6 wins and zero losses. 4 of those wins being complete tabling. The armies faced have been:
Imperial guard
Tyranids
Space Marines
Space Marines w/ imperial guard allies
Chaos Space Marines
Tau
Also as a side note: Big foot isn't real?
I remain open minded on the subject of Bigfoot.
The sheer volume of these sorts of threads and similar you've started has pretty much made my mind up on the subject of whether you have anything better to do or not.
Lol, think what you wanna think man. I'm glad you're an avid reader of my material. It's always good to have a fanbase.
The words "avid" and "fan" have no place in describing my opinion of much of your posting I'm afraid, probably best replaced with "strangely fascinated" and "car crash."
Don't get too flattered, I find my brain tracks usernames quite easily, especially when they persistently post "memorable" things.
I think people are wondering how you're pulling off this amazing winning streak. You brought it up as the OP and people are justifiable asking "How is this done?"
I too am curious as to what factors are leading to this.
And a close battle report is always a good thing. I love the ones that come down to the wire.
I can post pics proving the existence of Bigfoot. Doesn't make it any more or less real.
Lmao, listen to yourself! I don't have any obligation to justify anything to you because you're a complete stranger, but I have better things to do than lie about victories in toy soldiers. But if you must know, since picking up Dark Eldar a month ago, my record is 6 wins and zero losses. 4 of those wins being complete tabling. The armies faced have been:
Imperial guard
Tyranids
Space Marines
Space Marines w/ imperial guard allies
Chaos Space Marines
Tau
Also as a side note: Big foot isn't real?
I remain open minded on the subject of Bigfoot.
The sheer volume of these sorts of threads and similar you've started has pretty much made my mind up on the subject of whether you have anything better to do or not.
Lol, think what you wanna think man. I'm glad you're an avid reader of my material. It's always good to have a fanbase.
The words "avid" and "fan" have no place in describing my opinion of much of your posting I'm afraid, probably best replaced with "strangely fascinated" and "car crash."
Don't get too flattered, I find my brain tracks usernames quite easily, especially when they persistently post "memorable" things.
Too late man, already flattered. I can mail you a signed copy of my thoughts once a week!
I don't know if I'm a good player or not. I've played 5 different armies, in different metas and states and haven't lost many games at all. I'm just arguing that the list isn't cheese because it's running transports and heavy support. The transports as admitted in this thread are 100% neccessary... So are my ravagers making this cheese? It's only a 3 lance platform...
LOL this is the most hilarious statement I've read. "The list cannot be Cheese because I'm running Transports and Heavy Support."
So this isn't cheese either then
Spirit Seer
6 x 5 Dire Avenger Squads in Serpents
3 Wraithknights
Like I said before cheese is respective to your meta, in a meta with worse players, or non-competitve lists your army is going to run roughshod, because it is a strong list. If your local players don't enjoy playing it then it is a problem that you should address (you shouldn't have to but thanks for the balance GW).
Serpents are a much different story, they're tough as nails to crack, have table range with a nice strength gun and they're quick.
Raiders and venoms aren't durable at all. That'd be like somebody calling a space marine list with 6 rhinos "cheesy"...
Entirely missed the point your statement was " I'm just arguing that the list isn't cheese because it's running transports and heavy support. ", the list I posted is by your argument "not cheese because it's running transports and heavy support."
Lets look at your list
Vect -nasty in CC and ensures First turn about 75% of the time....which allows alpha strike against your opponent, especially with Seize- Extremely powerful character.
5 venoms - one of the better transports in the game...against infantry have similar damage Output to Waveserpents, and with upgrades are fairly durable...and cost half as much.
4 raiders with splinter racks - not too bad here-but allow spaming of poisoned shooting
3 ravagers - good anti-armor
3x 3 trueborn with 2 splinter cannons each -spamed poisoned shooting
So you have 13 Lance shots so you could have trouble against a heavy mech list (but that is not really the current meta, outside of serpent spam which essentially hard counters your army), especially if they can take out the ravagers early. Against an infantry heavy meta with first turn and reasonably good LOS you will hammer armies...on the level of serpent spam, kind of damage (more than that against some builds because you put out more shots than serpent spam, just not as high strength, but against high toughness it is largely moot)
Like I said, in a tournament...I have no issue with your army, it is a strong competitive list (it is a spoiler style list, it owns some armies but if you run into serpents you lose).
In a non-competitive meta, or casual play...it is a cheesy army because essentially any competitive list will be.
MWHistorian wrote: I think people are wondering how you're pulling off this amazing winning streak. You brought it up as the OP and people are justifiable asking "How is this done?"
I too am curious as to what factors are leading to this.
And a close battle report is always a good thing. I love the ones that come down to the wire.
No idea man. I just show up with my dice and my list. Weigh each move carefully before completing it. and in the end I find myself just winning v.s. different armies and different people and different metas. I go to 3 different FLGS. I'm sure the fact that I've probably literally played over 100 games of sixth probably helps as well. I'm also winning with different armies not just DE. Since sixth I've continued this trend with Necrons, CSM, Daemons, IG and Dark Eldar now. Got Space Wolves on the way!
I also work help desk so I'm pretty much reading tactica and watching battle reports 4-5 hours a day 5 days a week. I'm sure that's helped a lot.
I can post pics proving the existence of Bigfoot. Doesn't make it any more or less real.
Lmao, listen to yourself! I don't have any obligation to justify anything to you because you're a complete stranger, but I have better things to do than lie about victories in toy soldiers. But if you must know, since picking up Dark Eldar a month ago, my record is 6 wins and zero losses. 4 of those wins being complete tabling. The armies faced have been:
Imperial guard
Tyranids
Space Marines
Space Marines w/ imperial guard allies
Chaos Space Marines
Tau
Also as a side note: Big foot isn't real?
I remain open minded on the subject of Bigfoot.
The sheer volume of these sorts of threads and similar you've started has pretty much made my mind up on the subject of whether you have anything better to do or not.
Lol, think what you wanna think man. I'm glad you're an avid reader of my material. It's always good to have a fanbase.
The words "avid" and "fan" have no place in describing my opinion of much of your posting I'm afraid, probably best replaced with "strangely fascinated" and "car crash."
Don't get too flattered, I find my brain tracks usernames quite easily, especially when they persistently post "memorable" things.
Too late man, already flattered. I can mail you a signed copy of my thoughts once a week!
I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you forget you ever mentioned sending me your mental effluent once a week, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.
I can post pics proving the existence of Bigfoot. Doesn't make it any more or less real.
Lmao, listen to yourself! I don't have any obligation to justify anything to you because you're a complete stranger, but I have better things to do than lie about victories in toy soldiers. But if you must know, since picking up Dark Eldar a month ago, my record is 6 wins and zero losses. 4 of those wins being complete tabling. The armies faced have been:
Imperial guard
Tyranids
Space Marines
Space Marines w/ imperial guard allies
Chaos Space Marines
Tau
Also as a side note: Big foot isn't real?
I remain open minded on the subject of Bigfoot.
The sheer volume of these sorts of threads and similar you've started has pretty much made my mind up on the subject of whether you have anything better to do or not.
Lol, think what you wanna think man. I'm glad you're an avid reader of my material. It's always good to have a fanbase.
The words "avid" and "fan" have no place in describing my opinion of much of your posting I'm afraid, probably best replaced with "strangely fascinated" and "car crash."
Don't get too flattered, I find my brain tracks usernames quite easily, especially when they persistently post "memorable" things.
Too late man, already flattered. I can mail you a signed copy of my thoughts once a week!
I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you forget you ever mentioned sending me your mental effluent once a week, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.
I'll pm you my address no need to have to "find" me. Also, when I send you my signed memoirs, that should have my return address.
I don't think people are saying "that's broken! Never field that casually!" Or "lawl, that sucks! A wet noodle could eat it!". What some of us have been saying is that:
1) if you're significantly over a 1:1 against a person or group, and you're playing casual, its best that you either find a better opponent to test your mettle against or play down to the meta, trying to approach a 1:1.
2) Many of your claims seem fishy (like facing something often, and always having the same warlord trait, or 13 snapshotting Lances regularly dropping a Drake every round)
3) And you are very confrontational. You seem to virtually drink the tears frustration of others, and enjoy feeling superior when you can trick them into being wrong.
There is certainly room for a healthy debate about if DE skimmer spam is a spoiler, or how those games *might* deviate from what people want to play wholly independently of how hard it is, but this thread doesn't seem to be a healthy pursuit of those discussions.
Bharring wrote: I don't think people are saying "that's broken! Never field that casually!" Or "lawl, that sucks! A wet noodle could eat it!". What some of us have been saying is that:
1) if you're significantly over a 1:1 against a person or group, and you're playing casual, its best that you either find a better opponent to test your mettle against or play down to the meta, trying to approach a 1:1.
2) Many of your claims seem fishy (like facing something often, and always having the same warlord trait, or 13 snapshotting Lances regularly dropping a Drake every round)
3) And you are very confrontational. You seem to virtually drink the tears frustration of others, and enjoy feeling superior when you can trick them into being wrong.
There is certainly room for a healthy debate about if DE skimmer spam is a spoiler, or how those games *might* deviate from what people want to play wholly independently of how hard it is, but this thread doesn't seem to be a healthy pursuit of those discussions.
I never started confrontation here. I've been just trying to discuss how people seem to think this list is cheese, when I have everyone on thedarkcity.net talking to me and they're agreeing it's a good well rounded non overpowered list. Also, all of my "claims" are factual, I make none of this up. Also, I said I got that warlord trait once, not every time... And as mentioned I only played the CSM list once but I dropped a drake a turn peice mail.
Literally it's the certain individuals on this forum who seem to be obsessed with me.who're turning this dark... no pun intended...
Hivefleet Oblivion wrote: azreal and others... I would have thought you would have known better than to give an obvious attention-seeker exactly what he craves.
Now to find the "ignore" setting....
When my irritation exceeds my amusement, I know where it is....
You aren't discussing anything. You started a controvertial thread, and when you'd attracted enough people, you disagree with them stubbornly, then make troll remarks like 'lololol you are my fans'
You are the most obvious troll I've seen on this forum, I'm surprised the mods are so blind.
The problem is that you're making an extraordinary claim, which requires some backing to it. We need more data so we can crunch the numbers and come to a conclusion. For all we know you're playing with loaded dice and get 4+ 75% of the time or roll an unusually high amount of 6's.
You made a claim that you have tabled 5 opponents within 3 turns and played against what at first glance looks like a competitive Tau list while still having a significant force at the end.
Your claim has cast some doubt on people. Merely saying that you are making a factual claim is not helping, since someone lying would say the same thing.
"I'm not lying, I'm telling the truth" is a statement made by liars and honest men alike. We don't have much to go off of for your integrity so we want some more details to see how lucky or how good you have been in games.
I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you forget you ever mentioned sending me your mental effluent once a week, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.
Bharring wrote: I don't think people are saying "that's broken! Never field that casually!" Or "lawl, that sucks! A wet noodle could eat it!". What some of us have been saying is that:
1) if you're significantly over a 1:1 against a person or group, and you're playing casual, its best that you either find a better opponent to test your mettle against or play down to the meta, trying to approach a 1:1.
2) Many of your claims seem fishy (like facing something often, and always having the same warlord trait, or 13 snapshotting Lances regularly dropping a Drake every round)
3) And you are very confrontational. You seem to virtually drink the tears frustration of others, and enjoy feeling superior when you can trick them into being wrong.
There is certainly room for a healthy debate about if DE skimmer spam is a spoiler, or how those games *might* deviate from what people want to play wholly independently of how hard it is, but this thread doesn't seem to be a healthy pursuit of those discussions.
I never started confrontation here. I've been just trying to discuss how people seem to think this list is cheese, when I have everyone on thedarkcity.net talking to me and they're agreeing it's a good well rounded non overpowered list. Also, all of my "claims" are factual, I make none of this up. Also, I said I got that warlord trait once, not every time... And as mentioned I only played the CSM list once but I dropped a drake a turn peice mail.
Literally it's the certain individuals on this forum who seem to be obsessed with me.who're turning this dark... no pun intended...
The issue is that you don't actually discuss anything, so it comes across as you just wanting people to agree that your list is not overpowered. Which is dependent on what/who you are playing against. That is the thing about this game right now, how OP something is depends largely on who you are playing.
The problem is that you're making an extraordinary claim, which requires some backing to it. We need more data so we can crunch the numbers and come to a conclusion. For all we know you're playing with loaded dice and get 4+ 75% of the time or roll an unusually high amount of 6's.
You made a claim that you have tabled 5 opponents within 3 turns and played against what at first glance looks like a competitive Tau list while still having a significant force at the end.
Your claim has cast some doubt on people. Merely saying that you are making a factual claim is not helping, since someone lying would say the same thing.
"I'm not lying, I'm telling the truth" is a statement made by liars and honest men alike. We don't have much to go off of for your integrity so we want some more details to see how lucky or how good you have been in games.
Lol, I don't have to prove anything to the folks here, I'm honestly happy knowing what I've done. But as stated before, I've got pictures of the tabling I'll post later. Also, I don't cheat. I use whatever chessex I got at the battle standard in CT.
Breng77 wrote: Interesting that means you actually live (or did live) near me, I don't recall anyone using DE to dominate any tournaments in this area.
At that time I was a heldrake / nurgle CSM player, and a flying circus daemon player. I probably do know you. Went every Friday.
The problem is that you're making an extraordinary claim, which requires some backing to it. We need more data so we can crunch the numbers and come to a conclusion. For all we know you're playing with loaded dice and get 4+ 75% of the time or roll an unusually high amount of 6's.
You made a claim that you have tabled 5 opponents within 3 turns and played against what at first glance looks like a competitive Tau list while still having a significant force at the end.
Your claim has cast some doubt on people. Merely saying that you are making a factual claim is not helping, since someone lying would say the same thing.
"I'm not lying, I'm telling the truth" is a statement made by liars and honest men alike. We don't have much to go off of for your integrity so we want some more details to see how lucky or how good you have been in games.
Lol, I don't have to prove anything to the folks here, I'm honestly happy knowing what I've done. But as stated before, I've got pictures of the tabling I'll post later. Also, I don't cheat. I use whatever chessex I got at the battle standard in CT.
Nobody has accused you of cheating, just it's highly suspect that you have an army that you started a month ago and are undefeated and pretty much destroyed everybody you've played, when that army is largely considered to be a very hard army to master.
Breng77 wrote: Interesting that means you actually live (or did live) near me, I don't recall anyone using DE to dominate any tournaments in this area.
At that time I was a heldrake / nurgle CSM player, and a flying circus daemon player. I probably do know you. Went every Friday.
Never went up to the Battle standard, just lots of events around the area, and ran tournies down on the coast.
While it is enjoyable to win while playing 40k the slaughter is all that matters. To ensure this you should attempt to kill as many of your troops and the enemy troops as possible. Again, winning is fun but slaughter is more fun.
The problem is that you're making an extraordinary claim, which requires some backing to it. We need more data so we can crunch the numbers and come to a conclusion. For all we know you're playing with loaded dice and get 4+ 75% of the time or roll an unusually high amount of 6's.
You made a claim that you have tabled 5 opponents within 3 turns and played against what at first glance looks like a competitive Tau list while still having a significant force at the end.
Your claim has cast some doubt on people. Merely saying that you are making a factual claim is not helping, since someone lying would say the same thing.
"I'm not lying, I'm telling the truth" is a statement made by liars and honest men alike. We don't have much to go off of for your integrity so we want some more details to see how lucky or how good you have been in games.
Lol, I don't have to prove anything to the folks here, I'm honestly happy knowing what I've done. But as stated before, I've got pictures of the tabling I'll post later. Also, I don't cheat. I use whatever chessex I got at the battle standard in CT.
Nobody has accused you of cheating, just it's highly suspect that you have an army that you started a month ago and are undefeated and pretty much destroyed everybody you've played, when that army is largely considered to be a very hard army to master.
Well I'm a longtime 40k player, and have faced DE many times. I understand the army, and my old tourney playtest partner is a very well known (in my area DE player) the learning curve wasn't that steep for me, and also DE can really punish those (even good players) who haven't encountered DE before. I remember my first game v.s. them... However, I assure you everything here said by me is factual as far as how my games have gone. Am I a Dark Eldar master? Hells no, but I'm learning and growing, and so far am doing well with the army and having fun.
Breng77 wrote: Interesting that means you actually live (or did live) near me, I don't recall anyone using DE to dominate any tournaments in this area.
At that time I was a heldrake / nurgle CSM player, and a flying circus daemon player. I probably do know you. Went every Friday.
Never went up to the Battle standard, just lots of events around the area, and ran tournies down on the coast.
Oh, yea at the time I lived in Rocky Hill, CT. I went to the one in new brittain a few times, flagship I think it's called. I've been in Sarges comics in new london once...
You should post those pictures you took. Indeed playing hundreds of games will make you leaps and bounds ahead of most people. I've played a DE list like this one before and yeah I was almost tabled. (Had one demo charge special weapon guy left locked in combat with a warrior turn five). Sure I'm normally a "fluff" player using Straken, power blobs and rough riders. But next time I'll adapt and maybe use 6 Leman Russ tanks with prescience, 4+ invul saves from power field generators and prescience colossus and we'll have a more "even" match. Main point being your opponents need to be able to take a beating and try and learn from it. Also you need to make sure you have a good attitude as well while "playing" your games. If I have to stand there and remove close to half my army from one round of shooting while getting snarky comments (not saying thats what you do) I would be inclined to hate DE and that type of list.
portugus wrote: You should post those pictures you took. Indeed playing hundreds of games will make you leaps and bounds ahead of most people. I've played a DE list like this one before and yeah I was almost tabled. (Had one demo charge special weapon guy left locked in combat with a warrior turn five). Sure I'm normally a "fluff" player using Straken, power blobs and rough riders. But next time I'll adapt and maybe use 6 Leman Russ tanks with prescience, 4+ invul saves from power field generators and prescience colossus and we'll have a more "even" match. Main point being your opponents need to be able to take a beating and try and learn from it. Also you need to make sure you have a good attitude as well while "playing" your games. If I have to stand there and remove close to half my army from one round of shooting while getting snarky comments (not saying thats what you do) I would be inclined to hate DE and that type of list.
Yea, later for sure I'll get those pics posted after I Take my husky to the dog park. I'm always nice to people during games, and that's why it frustrates me when people are losing to me they huck their models or get a crappy attitude at me, since I'm always more than kind. So far so good though with the DE, they're pretty powerful on the alpha strike. I'm having a lot of fun with them. I just don't think my list is cheese and other people who don't understand how DE work do... I appreciate you looking at this objectively though.
The saying goes that an absurd claim made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. If you're insisting on these repeated results without providing any backing, then it implies that you exaggerate, lie, and/or cheat. I'm not calling you out as those, just stating how if you continue to present an implausible scenario repeatedly then you'll get skepticism in response.
Btw, I won the last 8 local poker games by going all in on a royal flush and nobody folding. How many people in this thread would take that at face value?
I'm honestly happy knowing what I've done.
which is why you had to make a thread so you could brag about it and have people tell you how great you are apparently.
Also, I don't cheat.
and again, this has no meaning. As I've previously stated a liar doesn't stop being a liar when asked if he lies.
Don't get me wrong, I think DE are a good army and have tools to hold their own in a game. I know they have a glass cannon aspect that can fall apart very fast if faced against a decent counter. If you wanted to talk about the merits of the army and how they are underrated/underrepresented then fine. If you want to talk about interesting tactics and list building ideas, fine.
But I'm not for ego stroking, which I believe was the original intent of the thread. After all who starts a thread that's effectively "Everyone tells me that I'm doing so good that I must be using an unfair list. Please tell me that my list isn't that cheesy so I can feel even better about curb stomping them with it. After all, I could have made it even worse for them."
The saying goes that an absurd claim made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. If you're insisting on these repeated results without providing any backing, then it implies that you exaggerate, lie, and/or cheat. I'm not calling you out as those, just stating how if you continue to present an implausible scenario repeatedly then you'll get skepticism in response.
Btw, I won the last 8 local poker games by going all in on a royal flush and nobody folding. How many people in this thread would take that at face value?
I'm honestly happy knowing what I've done.
which is why you had to make a thread so you could brag about it and have people tell you how great you are apparently.
Also, I don't cheat.
and again, this has no meaning. As I've previously stated a liar doesn't stop being a liar when asked if he lies.
Don't get me wrong, I think DE are a good army and have tools to hold their own in a game. I know they have a glass cannon aspect that can fall apart very fast if faced against a decent counter. If you wanted to talk about the merits of the army and how they are underrated/underrepresented then fine. If you want to talk about interesting tactics and list building ideas, fine.
But I'm not for ego stroking, which I believe was the original intent of the thread. After all who starts a thread that's effectively "Everyone tells me that I'm doing so good that I must be using an unfair list. Please tell me that my list isn't that cheesy so I can feel even better about curb stomping them with it. After all, I could have made it even worse for them."
I'm not bragging, I'm trying to figure out why this list is being called cheese. No ego stroking nada, that started occurring when people started make erroneous claims / remarks about me / my games.
Believe what you want, I'm the one happy with the 7-0 record a month into playing DE. Tabling Tau was the sweetest win of them all though. Figured since you called me a bragger, I'll start bragging. In any event please stop digressing from the topic, or post in someone else's thread. Thanks so much man, hope you have a wonderful afternoon!
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Breng77 wrote: Yeah, I went to Flagship a couple times, but not that much, and sarges but not in years (5th ed.)
Cool man, I moved back to the Boston area when I broke up with my GF down there. You ever go to BG events? I'll be at their swedish komp event this Saturday!
Yeah. My bad. Not sure why I got the vibe that you were bragging
So far, I haven't lost a game yet, and faced IG, white scars, ultra marines, daemons, and heldrake/ nurgle csm. Most games I've pretty much tabled by turn three, but i digress.
I have better things to do than lie about victories in toy soldiers. But if you must know, since picking up Dark Eldar a month ago, my record is 6 wins and zero losses. 4 of those wins being complete tabling.
I don't know if I'm a good player or not. I've played 5 different armies, in different metas and states and haven't lost many games at all.
I'm sure the fact that I've probably literally played over 100 games of sixth probably helps as well. I'm also winning with different armies not just DE. Since sixth I've continued this trend with Necrons, CSM, Daemons, IG and Dark Eldar now. Got Space Wolves on the way!
If this was super competitive, it'd have 9 venoms instead of only 5.
Or why I thought you wanted praise. I mean it's not like you've had an overly positive reaction to someone just saying it wasn't a cheesy list.
It just restores my faith in humanity a little bit, when someone with his head on his shoulders speaks up.
Savageconvoy wrote: Yeah. My bad. Not sure why I got the vibe that you were bragging
So far, I haven't lost a game yet, and faced IG, white scars, ultra marines, daemons, and heldrake/ nurgle csm. Most games I've pretty much tabled by turn three, but i digress.
I have better things to do than lie about victories in toy soldiers. But if you must know, since picking up Dark Eldar a month ago, my record is 6 wins and zero losses. 4 of those wins being complete tabling.
I don't know if I'm a good player or not. I've played 5 different armies, in different metas and states and haven't lost many games at all.
I'm sure the fact that I've probably literally played over 100 games of sixth probably helps as well. I'm also winning with different armies not just DE. Since sixth I've continued this trend with Necrons, CSM, Daemons, IG and Dark Eldar now. Got Space Wolves on the way!
If this was super competitive, it'd have 9 venoms instead of only 5.
Or why I thought you wanted praise. I mean it's not like you've had an overly positive reaction to someone just saying it wasn't a cheesy list.
It just restores my faith in humanity a little bit, when someone with his head on his shoulders speaks up.
Savageconvoy wrote: Yeah. My bad. Not sure why I got the vibe that you were bragging
So far, I haven't lost a game yet, and faced IG, white scars, ultra marines, daemons, and heldrake/ nurgle csm. Most games I've pretty much tabled by turn three, but i digress.
I have better things to do than lie about victories in toy soldiers. But if you must know, since picking up Dark Eldar a month ago, my record is 6 wins and zero losses. 4 of those wins being complete tabling.
I don't know if I'm a good player or not. I've played 5 different armies, in different metas and states and haven't lost many games at all.
I'm sure the fact that I've probably literally played over 100 games of sixth probably helps as well. I'm also winning with different armies not just DE. Since sixth I've continued this trend with Necrons, CSM, Daemons, IG and Dark Eldar now. Got Space Wolves on the way!
If this was super competitive, it'd have 9 venoms instead of only 5.
Or why I thought you wanted praise. I mean it's not like you've had an overly positive reaction to someone just saying it wasn't a cheesy list.
It just restores my faith in humanity a little bit, when someone with his head on his shoulders speaks up.
Funny, all narcissists prefer their own content over others.
To stay true to topic: the list posted is a straightforward net list that does not require much thought.
Noticed you listed armies you beat that tend to rely on footsloggers or high toughness (bikes, nurgle) which your poison would nerf: who would have thought!
Oddly enough, anyone fielding a few vehicles would laugh at this army.
I would suggest trying out a Voidraven Bomber just to add that extra fun (options, mayhem) but people are getting a little more into AA: results may vary.
Funny, all narcissists prefer their own content over others.
To stay true to topic: the list posted is a straightforward net list that does not require much thought.
Noticed you listed armies you beat that tend to rely on footsloggers or high toughness (bikes, nurgle) which your poison would nerf: who would have thought!
Oddly enough, anyone fielding a few vehicles would laugh at this army.
I would suggest trying out a Voidraven Bomber just to add that extra fun (options, mayhem) but people are getting a little more into AA: results may vary.
I think you missed the 13 dark lances in the list, firing at bs 4. The only mech list that concerns me is wave serpent spam.
Have you played vs Serpent Spam yet? A well done one will tear your list a new one. Additionally, have you played vs Screamerstar? They'll eat you alive as well.
Lucarikx wrote: Have you played vs Serpent Spam yet? A well done one will tear your list a new one. Additionally, have you played vs Screamerstar? They'll eat you alive as well.
Lucarikx
Actually, dark eldar alpha strike venom spam lists are designed for deathstars. And read the above post i wrote about we've serpents. I already agreed they'd be trouble.
I just want to see the actual tau list he went against.
13 dark lances should kill about 3.6 Broadsides a turn, assuming he didn't go to ground and didn't have drones.
It should take about 90 poison shots to kill a Riptide, 162 if the buff commander is there to control wound allocation. If stim inj was used on the commander it goes up to 198.
Firewarriors and pathfinders have little regard for either weapon and both are equipped well enough to deal some offensive damage.
Savageconvoy wrote: I just want to see the actual tau list he went against. 13 dark lances should kill about 3.6 Broadsides a turn, assuming he didn't go to ground and didn't have drones.
It should take about 90 poison shots to kill a Riptide, 162 if the buff commander is there to control wound allocation. If stim inj was used on the commander it goes up to 198.
Firewarriors and pathfinders have little regard for either weapon and both are equipped well enough to deal some offensive damage.
Who went first this game?
If DE goes first, Tau can have a hard time.
In my meta, we have optimize Tau, Eldau and Necron lists galore. Here's my list idea to counter those:
HQ: Vect in his pimping Dias HQ: Haemy with Liquifier+venom blade in Vect's Pimping Dias Elites: 8 Inclubies to go in Vect's Pimping Dias Troops: 3 Wracks in Venom+splinter cannon Troops: 3 Wracks in Venom+splinter cannon Troops: 3 Wracks in Venom+splinter cannon Troops: 3 Wracks in Venom+splinter cannon Fast: Razorwing - stock equipment Heavy: Ravager with 3 Dissies Heavy: Ravager with 3 DL Heavy: Ravager with 3 DL Allied HQ: SpiritSeer Allied Troops: 7 Wraithguard (cannon) Allied Heavy: Wraith Knight - stock equipment
-With Vect, there's still 3 "Ravager-like" platforms on the table with 9 DL -The one "Dissy" Ravager throw's out 9 S5 AP2 shots that'll make the Riptide+ Broadside+Termies+Protected Seer Council cry -Vect's Pimping Dias is the perfect ride for delivering Vect and the Incubies, or if you're forced to bottom turn, use the Dias to shield the over paper airplanes -Razorwing is the dual AA + ground threats. -SpiritSeer with Wraithguard would usually march forward towards the baddies -WraithKnight use situationally. S10 HoW anyone?
I have the Forgeworld Tantalus to be used as Vect's Pimping Dias... once that's together, I'm gonna try this.
Lucarikx wrote: Have you played vs Serpent Spam yet? A well done one will tear your list a new one. Additionally, have you played vs Screamerstar? They'll eat you alive as well.
Lucarikx
Actually, dark eldar alpha strike venom spam lists are designed for deathstars. And read the above post i wrote about we've serpents. I already agreed they'd be trouble.
the venom spam vs deathstar largely comes down to Los blocking terrain, if the screamers etc can hide and get powers off they win if not the lose.
Lucarikx wrote: Have you played vs Serpent Spam yet? A well done one will tear your list a new one. Additionally, have you played vs Screamerstar? They'll eat you alive as well.
Lucarikx
Actually, dark eldar alpha strike venom spam lists are designed for deathstars. And read the above post i wrote about we've serpents. I already agreed they'd be trouble.
the venom spam vs deathstar largely comes down to Los blocking terrain, if the screamers etc can hide and get powers off they win if not the lose.
Very true.
That's why if I have Vect, and I win the initial deploy first, sometimes I'll give my opponent first turn. It all comes down to deployment... so if my opponent deploys aggressively and I seize, that works to my advantage.
I never started confrontation here. I've been just trying to discuss how people seem to think this list is cheese, when I have everyone on thedarkcity.net talking to me and they're agreeing it's a good well rounded non overpowered list.
I actually signed up just to respond to this.
Firstly, 6 responses (one in fact being yourself asking for input) on DarkCity does NOT constitute "Everyone". I will freely admit however, that I do not frequent the Army List section too often, as it holds little interest for me.
Second, You entitled this army list on DarkCity as "1850 Dark Eldar Tourney List. Swedish Komp style tourney. Looking for C&C", and were considerably more approachable with your attitude, therefore you were bound to get more reasonable responses. You made it clear that this is a competitive list, being designed for a tournament. You gave no such information here. You also have not mentioned anything about games won, player feedback or anything else on your DarkCity post.
If you had laid out your post here in a similar vein to the one on DarkCity, that it is a competitive list for a tournament, that you are doing well with but are getting some hassle with from your opponents regarding "Cheese", you may have had some more constructive responses.
As it is you came into one of the more... Vocal... forums in the hobby where it must be said, some members have been less than passive with their replies, and some have been really quite aggressive. What did you think would happen?
Anyway, onto the list.
I think its dull. I think it takes units that require minimal effort to use, and spams them. I would personally, not touch this list with a 40-foot barge pole. It is, therefore, an effective tournament list, and if you are inflicting it upon pick-up games without prior warning then I believe you may be someone I'd quite like to avoid. If, however you are approaching players, explaining that you would like to test your tournament list against the strongest list they can field, and you are winning, then kudos. I will not take credit away where it is due, and I certainly do not dispute the fact that it is possible for you to be doing so. I will, however, leave judgement until I see your battle reports and can judge for myself your skill, relative to your opponent and their list.
So, in closing, perhaps a little more care in setting out your original posts (and your rebuttals) would be in order, and a slight attitude adjustment in your willingness to be the bigger man and acquiesce to (perhaps sometimes rude) demands for proof. You have nothing to hide, so why be defensive and state "I don't have to prove myself to a stranger on the internet"? You're right, you don't have to. But don't expect to be believed out of hand on your word.
Savageconvoy wrote: I just want to see the actual tau list he went against.
13 dark lances should kill about 3.6 Broadsides a turn, assuming he didn't go to ground and didn't have drones.
Wouldnt it be 7.2 Broadsides a turn?
4/6 (to hit) * 5/6 (to/wound) = 0.555
AP2 means no Armor Safe and S8 vs T4 is a IK.
Therefore 0.555 * 13 = 7,215 dead broadsides per turn...
Savageconvoy wrote: I just want to see the actual tau list he went against.
13 dark lances should kill about 3.6 Broadsides a turn, assuming he didn't go to ground and didn't have drones.
Wouldnt it be 7.2 Broadsides a turn?
4/6 (to hit) * 5/6 (to/wound) = 0.555
AP2 means no Armor Safe and S8 vs T4 is a IK.
Therefore 0.555 * 13 = 7,215 dead broadsides per turn...
I never started confrontation here. I've been just trying to discuss how people seem to think this list is cheese, when I have everyone on thedarkcity.net talking to me and they're agreeing it's a good well rounded non overpowered list.
I actually signed up just to respond to this.
Firstly, 6 responses (one in fact being yourself asking for input) on DarkCity does NOT constitute "Everyone". I will freely admit however, that I do not frequent the Army List section too often, as it holds little interest for me.
Second, You entitled this army list on DarkCity as "1850 Dark Eldar Tourney List. Swedish Komp style tourney. Looking for C&C", and were considerably more approachable with your attitude, therefore you were bound to get more reasonable responses. You made it clear that this is a competitive list, being designed for a tournament. You gave no such information here. You also have not mentioned anything about games won, player feedback or anything else on your DarkCity post.
Very interesting as here and in the other (locked) thread it was insinuated that these were normal, everyday games and nothing relating to a tournament, which is also why a lot of the "cheese" cries were mentioned - using a list like this in a regular friendly game is certainly on the cheese side of the spectrum, along with the constant egotistical "I've won every game" and "most of them I've tabled my opponent by turn 3" and "I've played hundreds of games with multiple armies and lost very few of them" rubs people the wrong way.
Dalymiddleboro wrote: I think you missed the 13 dark lances in the list, firing at bs 4. The only mech list that concerns me is wave serpent spam.
I think you intentionally missed listing which choice you made in your army list on your ravagers (what? No templates?) and raiders so you can say what you want.
Also it depends on how many of those lances can uniquely target and got line of sight.
You have to hit hard or you die like a dog (glass cannon) when anyone shoots back.
All you have to do is hope no-one has any good terrain handy and you get to go first.
Brilliant tactics!
Dalymiddleboro wrote: I think you missed the 13 dark lances in the list, firing at bs 4. The only mech list that concerns me is wave serpent spam.
I think you intentionally missed listing which choice you made in your army list on your ravagers (what? No templates?) and raiders so you can say what you want.
Also it depends on how many of those lances can uniquely target and got line of sight.
You have to hit hard or you die like a dog (glass cannon) when anyone shoots back.
All you have to do is hope no-one has any good terrain handy and you get to go first.
Brilliant tactics!
With vect i go first 75% of the time. And fast skimmers move 12" and fire at full ballistic, very easy to get targets in los.
Savageconvoy wrote: I just want to see the actual tau list he went against.
13 dark lances should kill about 3.6 Broadsides a turn, assuming he didn't go to ground and didn't have drones.
Wouldnt it be 7.2 Broadsides a turn?
4/6 (to hit) * 5/6 (to/wound) = 0.555
AP2 means no Armor Safe and S8 vs T4 is a IK.
Therefore 0.555 * 13 = 7,215 dead broadsides per turn...
Cover?
Cover will decrease the number. But if they get catched in the open it will be 7.2...
This has provided me with a lot of "interesting" comments to read.
To avoid digression and name calling the only thing that lists strikes me as is as a very competitive (not the ability but the intent) list. It was obviously designed as a means to min/max against all comers. In a competitive game (ie both players know what they are getting into) that is fair game but in a "fun" setting that would be a list I could understand people getting upset with. I have faced my fair share of eldar scum and can see how such a list possesses the potential to crush people. It also possesses the ability to get crushed by people.
Based on the aforementioned competitive vs fun game atmosphere it goes either way dependent upon the setting. Good luck and have fun man! But before you bring a spam list just make sure your opponent knows what they're getting into. I'm out.
Dalymiddleboro wrote: I think you missed the 13 dark lances in the list, firing at bs 4. The only mech list that concerns me is wave serpent spam.
I think you intentionally missed listing which choice you made in your army list on your ravagers (what? No templates?) and raiders so you can say what you want.
Also it depends on how many of those lances can uniquely target and got line of sight.
You have to hit hard or you die like a dog (glass cannon) when anyone shoots back.
All you have to do is hope no-one has any good terrain handy and you get to go first.
Brilliant tactics!
With vect i go first 75% of the time. And fast skimmers move 12" and fire at full ballistic, very easy to get targets in los.
You already mentioned the Vect stealing initiative earlier in the thread, 75% is good but not a sure thing (1 loss and 3 wins!).
Terrain would still allow some chances for complete (usually in their deployment zone) cover or partial cover (25% only needed).
What, no response to leaving out the various loadouts on your list until you want to argue it?
What, no response to what I assume is 3 targets with a good chance of a kill (3 ravagers with 3 DL each) and the four single shots from the Raiders (much less of a chance)?
Faced this before with Marines removing the DL's are the priority since the Venoms cannot do much without something squishy to shoot at.
Anyway, yes a list I have seen before, yes, you do get a fight on your hands but not "unbeatable" for sure.
<edit> This is a funny argument: OP does not view this as "cheese" but states clearly he laughs as he stomps everyone he takes on. So are we trying to justify the use of a tournament list for casual play or are we trying to argue with him on how to beat his list (which is easily doable)?
Rather pointless either way. Bored now, moving on...
Dalymiddleboro wrote: I think you missed the 13 dark lances in the list, firing at bs 4. The only mech list that concerns me is wave serpent spam.
I think you intentionally missed listing which choice you made in your army list on your ravagers (what? No templates?) and raiders so you can say what you want.
Also it depends on how many of those lances can uniquely target and got line of sight.
You have to hit hard or you die like a dog (glass cannon) when anyone shoots back.
All you have to do is hope no-one has any good terrain handy and you get to go first.
Brilliant tactics!
With vect i go first 75% of the time. And fast skimmers move 12" and fire at full ballistic, very easy to get targets in los.
You already mentioned the Vect stealing initiative earlier in the thread, 75% is good but not a sure thing (1 loss and 3 wins!).
Terrain would still allow some chances for complete (usually in their deployment zone) cover or partial cover (25% only needed).
What, no response to leaving out the various loadouts on your list until you want to argue it?
What, no response to what I assume is 3 targets with a good chance of a kill (3 ravagers with 3 DL each) and the four single shots from the Raiders (much less of a chance)?
Faced this before with Marines removing the DL's are the priority since the Venoms cannot do much without something squishy to shoot at.
Anyway, yes a list I have seen before, yes, you do get a fight on your hands but not "unbeatable" for sure.
<edit> This is a funny argument: OP does not view this as "cheese" but states clearly he laughs as he stomps everyone he takes on. So are we trying to justify the use of a tournament list for casual play or are we trying to argue with him on how to beat his list (which is easily doable)?
Rather pointless either way. Bored now, moving on...
Vect
5 venoms
4 raiders with splinter racks
3 ravagers
3x 3 trueborn with 2 splinter cannons each
50 warriors 3 w/ splinter cannons
Compared to the armies out there, i hardly view this as cheese...
Thats not cheese. Any army with 50 Warriors is just reliable. But not cheese. The vehicles pop like pimples as the game goes on.
I am surprised. It has none of the trademark cheddar in it. Its one hell of a load of firepower though. Ill give you that.
I think the gist of the thread is that its not the list that's the problem, but the player. Something fishy's going on and the OP isn't being specific enough to answer the questions being asked. Also, his attitude isn't helping.
Look. Here's my take. This is not a cheddar list. On its own its just damn good and with minimal actual shinanigans. If the player is UNDER selling its potency, that's annoying but in the end, there's 20 lists I'd take more exception to than this if I even DID take exception at all.
Dalymiddleboro: come clean. This is an awesome reliable list. I think you should play it and not undersell it to opponents. No one hates anything more in this game than false modesty.
Vect
5 venoms
4 raiders with splinter racks
3 ravagers
3x 3 trueborn with 2 splinter cannons each
50 warriors 3 w/ splinter cannons
Compared to the armies out there, i hardly view this as cheese...
Thats not cheese. Any army with 50 Warriors is just reliable. But not cheese. The vehicles pop like pimples as the game goes on.
I am surprised. It has none of the trademark cheddar in it. Its one hell of a load of firepower though. Ill give you that.
I think the gist of the thread is that its not the list that's the problem, but the player. Something fishy's going on and the OP isn't being specific enough to answer the questions being asked. Also, his attitude isn't helping.
There's nothing fishy. I set up games with opponents, and play. Everything I've stated is accurate, not sure why people are calling it fishy... Jealousy maybe?
There's nothing fishy. I set up games with opponents, and play. Everything I've stated is accurate, not sure why people are calling it fishy... Jealousy maybe?
See... I would have left the part after the elipse straight out of that post. I think that elipse right there encapsulates the problem you're REALLY having. You have to know that's not going to go over well. But you couldn't help yourself. You see yourself as unfairly "victimized".
I'll tell you a secret: you're not. People are reacting badly to your social skills. Even if every word is true...and it probably is... you're just pissing your audience off.
Stand on the strength of the list itself. Its very good. Dont drop into this "You mad bro" kinda crap.
There's nothing fishy. I set up games with opponents, and play. Everything I've stated is accurate, not sure why people are calling it fishy... Jealousy maybe?
See... I would have left the part after the elipse straight out of that post. I think that elipse right there encapsulates the problem you're REALLY having. You have to know that's not going to go over well. But you couldn't help yourself. You see yourself as unfairly "victimized".
I'll tell you a secret: you're not. People are reacting badly to your social skills. Even if every word is true...and it probably is... you're just pissing your audience off.
Stand on the strength of the list itself. Its very good. Dont drop into this "You mad bro" kinda crap.
See, people are mad though. Also, they aren't my parent(s). My social skills are none of their concern, and it's not up to them to teach me or show me the way. I can say one thing, no matter what anyone says here in this thread, it won't change how I act one bit. Anyone trying to accomplish that is wasting their time. I'm getting paid right now... I don't mind.
There's nothing fishy. I set up games with opponents, and play. Everything I've stated is accurate, not sure why people are calling it fishy... Jealousy maybe?
See... I would have left the part after the elipse straight out of that post. I think that elipse right there encapsulates the problem you're REALLY having. You have to know that's not going to go over well. But you couldn't help yourself. You see yourself as unfairly "victimized".
I'll tell you a secret: you're not. People are reacting badly to your social skills. Even if every word is true...and it probably is... you're just pissing your audience off.
Stand on the strength of the list itself. Its very good. Dont drop into this "You mad bro" kinda crap.
See, people are mad though. Also, they aren't my parent(s). My social skills are none of their concern, and it's not up to them to teach me or show me the way. I can say one thing, no matter what anyone says here in this thread, it won't change how I act one bit. Anyone trying to accomplish that is wasting their time. I'm getting paid right now... I don't mind.
Then don't act surprised or offended when people react negatively to your bad/arrogant attitude.
And I'm done here. You seem to be a troll. If you're not a troll, then you should re-examine how you interact with people on the internet.
)
you know what curiosity does....
