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I run:

Vect
5 venoms
4 raiders with splinter racks
3 ravagers
3x 3 trueborn with 2 splinter cannons each
50 warriors 3 w/ splinter cannons

Compared to the armies out there, i hardly view this as cheese...

If your taking that tournament set up to pick up games they are 100% correct.

Unless people know they are facing such a list it leads to a game devoid of fun where all they do is remove models.

So it's cheese.

Another quality thread from the OP.

MarsNZ wrote:
Another quality thread from the OP.

Pretty much this.

Congrats OP, you know some people who dislike your list.

Well, dude, you blew in and decided to start Dark Eldar a short while ago. You found out the "best" netlists and then you bought a bunch of models so that you could copy them. You've started winning games, so you shouldn't be surprised.

If you're winning in 40k, people are going to accuse you of running cheese regardless of whether or not you are. I'll leave it up to you and your conscience to decide whether or not you're actually running cheese. (If your list consists of 3 identical copies of one unit, 3 identical copies of another, and 4 more or less identical copies of ANOTHER, you might want to take a hard look in the mirror on that one.)

I'm not saying don't run your lists in tournaments. But when you do nothing but spam more-or-less carbon copy units in friendly games, it's going to lead to hurt feelings.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
I run:

Vect
5 venoms
4 raiders with splinter racks
3 ravagers
3x 3 trueborn with 2 splinter cannons each
50 warriors 3 w/ splinter cannons

Compared to the armies out there, i hardly view this as cheese...

I'm a DE player.

It depends on your meta... my meta will waste that list.

Dark Eldar are so rare in my area I wouldn't even know the difference.

I dont know about cheese, but that list would be extremely boring to play against. As someone who plays the game for the models, I personally find these kinds of armies very lacking. Your army has 5 different models in it. Thats it, everything except Vect is a copy paste of something else.

I don't know why this bugs me as badly as it does, but it does.

Cheese? Situational.
Boring? Definitely and that is the greater sin.

Your title's a lie. I don't think it's OP.

Post removed.


Reds8n

I understand that some of his threads are redundant and tiresome, but it's not cool to attack people in this personal a manner. Daly isn't so far gone that he can't be a contributing member of the community, he mostly just seems new. There's no call for the anatomy of a troll posts.

 Jimsolo wrote:
I understand that some of his threads are redundant and tiresome, but it's not cool to attack people in this personal a manner. Daly isn't so far gone that he can't be a contributing member of the community, he mostly just seems new. There's no call for the anatomy of a troll posts.

New? He has 1300 posts and has been on Dakka for 2 years.

 Jimsolo wrote:
I understand that some of his threads are redundant and tiresome, but it's not cool to attack people in this personal a manner. Daly isn't so far gone that he can't be a contributing member of the community, he mostly just seems new. There's no call for the anatomy of a troll posts.

Jim,

I respect where you're coming from, but please hear me out.

I've been around Dakka for a long while now (not as long as some, granted, but since late 2006) and sadly I've seen people like Daily come and go. Daily, unlike many of his ilk, seems bound and determined to simply troll, instead of contributing.

I lurk a lot, browse threads and read a fair amount, and this includes posts made by our lovable (sarcasm) Dailymiddlebro. I've yet to read a single opening post, or reply to a thread, where he isn't 'redundant and tiresome'. He revels in trolling like few others I've seen, and I for one find it more than just tiresome at this point. I make it a point to call a spade, a spade. Most of his threads wind up flamefests (which he instigates) and eventually wind up locked.

Review his post history over the last two years. He's no stranger to this behavior.

I'm not going to reply in this thread further, as it really just needs to die, but Jimsolo, if you'd like to chat further about it I would be happy to do so via PM.

Thanks. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Compared to the armies out there, i hardly view this as cheese...

How about listing the kind of builds you more regularly face up against so we can calibrate our cheesometers?

I don't get it.. My own casual Sally list would trash that list with little to no effort, and don't get me started on my Gravstar/Thunderfire list.

None of my lists, except for the Gravstar/Thunderfire lsit, can even hold a candle next to the top tier lists, I honestly don't see why this list should be OP. Is it boring as hell to play against as an allcomer in the FLGS? Yeah, that list would be a fast way to lose friends. It is OP? No... definitely not...

Lol, definitely not trolling here. In any event i don't find this list boring to play. Its fun to blot out the sun with poison shots and dark It's fun to be faster than every army, and fluff wise I love kabals the best.

So far, I haven't lost a game yet, and faced IG, white scars, ultra marines, daemons, and heldrake/ nurgle csm. Most games I've pretty much tabled by turn three, but i digress. In any event, i created this thread, because every opponent has cried cheese, even I've faced biker spam, heldrake spam, tigurius dev cents, and Lehman Russ/ vendetta spam. I just don't get it.

And to all my fans, remember rule number one, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all. Have a wonderful day gentlemen.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Lol, definitely not trolling here. In any event i don't find this list boring to play. Its fun to blot out the sun with poison shots and dark It's fun to be faster than every army, and fluff wise I love kabals the best.

So far, I haven't lost a game yet, and faced IG, white scars, ultra marines, daemons, and heldrake/ nurgle csm. Most games I've pretty much tabled by turn three, but i digress. In any event, i created this thread, because every opponent has cried cheese, even I've faced biker spam, heldrake spam, tigurius dev cents, and Lehman Russ/ vendetta spam. I just don't get it.

And to all my fans, remember rule number one, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all. Have a wonderful day gentlemen.

Emphasis mine. That generally means one of two things: 1) Your list is pure cheddar, or 2) You are an amazing general, a 40k Napoleon or Patton. No offense, but you don't seem like #2, ergo it's #1. You're playing a one-trick pony spam list that's one of the standard netlists for Dark Eldar, and by your own admission tend to destroy anything you come up against, and you don't see why people call your list cheese?

Faced a few netlists like this in my meta when folks were getting gear up for a local tourney, watched one game where Blood Angels ate it up. /shrug

Is it cookie-cutter? Yup, made by min-maxers who studied the codex intensely (or not at all as some armies are concerned). I don't get the question presented by the OP though; you beat every army you face all the time and people cry cheese, and you come on here to ask if it's a cheese list...obvious troll is obvious?

How do you handle Helldrakes or Necron Air force? You said Vendetta and Helldrakes was on the list of things you've faced and beat, but as a DE player myself... How the actual fack did you handle yourself vs Helldrake? Or let me guess, you brought a cheese list and you played vs a nice guy that brought only 1 of those things? Because my simple math hammer suggests that there's less than 1/100th of a chance to do actual damage vs a Helldrake with 5++ with your snap shotting Ravagers and if you're telling me that you managed to table a guy that had 2-3 of those things flying around that obliterates the vast majority of your units, then you're playing vs mentally handicapped people, no offense.

I often field the same list in competitive games, but I win only about half the time. You must either be rolling extremely lucky or your opponents all have crappy lists. The third option is that you are bringing competitive netlists to a non-competitive game, which is heresy and something you should never do, despite this DE netlist being surprisingly fluffy.

Zewrath wrote:
How do you handle Helldrakes or Necron Air force? You said Vendetta and Helldrakes was on the list of things you've faced and beat, but as a DE player myself... How the actual fack did you handle yourself vs Helldrake? Or let me guess, you brought a cheese list and you played vs a nice guy that brought only 1 of those things? Because my simple math hammer suggests that there's less than 1/100th of a chance to do actual damage vs a Helldrake with 5++ with your snap shotting Ravagers and if you're telling me that you managed to table a guy that had 2-3 of those things flying around that obliterates the vast majority of your units, then you're playing vs mentally handicapped people, no offense.

Yea, rolled -1 to his reserves as my warlord trait, they came peice mail. And it's not just the ravagers that throw lances at the drake, I also have 4 raiders... Glanced them down with snapshots each. Really wasn't too difficult. Also, when they come on, they'll vector strike a thing, it's not gaurunteed to do damage. after that, the bale flamer is pretty poor against us, and we're quick enough to not get vector struck anymore. It's all about the movement phase man, if you're having trouble with drakes you should get more acquainted with your movement. Vendettas can be a little tougher when they hover, but then we get to throw lances at them at full BS. 4 Raiders with 5 venoms as opposed to 9 venom triple ravager, really helps us with getting more lances on the table for fliers. Hope this helped, thanks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
I often field the same list in competitive games, but I win only about half the time. You must either be rolling extremely lucky or your opponents all have crappy lists. The third option is that you are bringing competitive netlists to a non-competitive game, which is heresy and something you should never do, despite this DE netlist being surprisingly fluffy.

This could definitely be more competitive with more venoms, but I like raiders, they're nice and fluffy and fun to play with. I assure you, my opponents have all been good players and have brought good lists (in fact you should be able to tell that, as I gave an overview of what their "netlists" entailed.). I seem to really understand this DE army, and they're much a surgeon scalpel army. So far really haven't had any issues with anything I've faced. It's all pretty much been over by turn 3. However, I in no way see this list as cheesy at all... That's why I created this thread. I mean there's screamer star out there, wave serpent spam et al. I don't feel shamed in bringing this. What else would I take? I like kabals more than wych cults and haemunculi covens. I like the militarized factions of commoragh. I'm bringing the fluff units I enjoy in the codex... So honestly, I don't think there's anything wrong with playing what you like, and my list is far from cheese. Anywho, take it easy!

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
I run:

Vect
5 venoms
4 raiders with splinter racks
3 ravagers
3x 3 trueborn with 2 splinter cannons each
50 warriors 3 w/ splinter cannons

Compared to the armies out there, i hardly view this as cheese...

Seems to be a rather soulless "feth monstrous creatures" list probably taken from the internet.

Sure I'd probably hate throwing my Monster mash or infantry blob lists at that, but your list is seriously short on anti-air and is fairly meh at vehicle killing.

You know what this means?

NECRON MAXIMUM THREAT OVERLOAD!

 Kain wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
I run:

Vect
5 venoms
4 raiders with splinter racks
3 ravagers
3x 3 trueborn with 2 splinter cannons each
50 warriors 3 w/ splinter cannons

Compared to the armies out there, i hardly view this as cheese...

Seems to be a rather soulless "feth monstrous creatures" list probably taken from the internet.

Sure I'd probably hate throwing my Monster mash or infantry blob lists at that, but your list is seriously short on anti-air and is fairly meh at vehicle killing.

You know what this means?

NECRON MAXIMUM THREAT OVERLOAD!

With 13 pretty much table range dark lances on the table, haven't had issues with vehicles yet, once including mechanized guard. When I do start to have issues, I imagine I might bring a unit of blaster born, but so far, so good in that regard.


Also, I didn't copy and paste this from the net, I mean it's general design is arguably a net list, but pretty much today's day in age with regards to how fast information travels, what isn't "inspired" from something else. Hell, if we all didn't take what has worked for others in the past then technology would be lame, music would have like 3 genres and even automobiles wouldn't have as much innovation. "Netlist" isn't an insulting term to me, as any great idea deserves to be repeated.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
I run:

Vect
5 venoms
4 raiders with splinter racks
3 ravagers
3x 3 trueborn with 2 splinter cannons each
50 warriors 3 w/ splinter cannons

Compared to the armies out there, i hardly view this as cheese...

Seems to be a rather soulless "feth monstrous creatures" list probably taken from the internet.

Sure I'd probably hate throwing my Monster mash or infantry blob lists at that, but your list is seriously short on anti-air and is fairly meh at vehicle killing.

You know what this means?

NECRON MAXIMUM THREAT OVERLOAD!

With 13 pretty much table range dark lances on the table, haven't had issues with vehicles yet, once including mechanized guard. When I do start to have issues, I imagine I might bring a unit of blaster born, but so far, so good in that regard.


Also, I didn't copy and paste this from the net, I mean it's general design is arguably a net list, but pretty much today's day in age with regards to how fast information travels, what isn't "inspired" from something else. Hell, if we all didn't take what has worked for others in the past then technology would be lame, music would have like 3 genres and even automobiles wouldn't have as much innovation. "Netlist" isn't an insulting term to me, as any great idea deserves to be repeated.

Yep my experience lead me to a similar list conclusion

compared to what some codices can put out it is in no way cheesy, wave serpent spam would crap all over it for example.


What really stinks is the ignorance of many about what the Dark Eldar can actually do. And due to ther rarity 'out there' you cause the whines when those venoms with 12 shots per turn go through all sorts of infantry etc with ease, not to mention those 10 trueborn with a lot of shots, the look on peoples faces when they shoot

Yet the army either blows all before it or crumples like tin foil (when that happens i really could hit the wall )

At this rate i may as well spam wave serpents for my eldar you know what curiosity does....

 whembly wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
I run:

Vect
5 venoms
4 raiders with splinter racks
3 ravagers
3x 3 trueborn with 2 splinter cannons each
50 warriors 3 w/ splinter cannons

Compared to the armies out there, i hardly view this as cheese...

I'm a DE player.

It depends on your meta... my meta will waste that list.

I'm also a DE player and ditto. The list has absolutely no capability to effectively deal with the things I regularly see on the tabletop.

Something's not adding up here. You win every game and usually table your opponent by turn 3?

All the times you faced helldrake or vendetta spam you rolled that warlord trait *and* only one came in each time?

Also, how is that enough? Two Dev squads without chapter tactics struggle to drop one Drake a turn, and those outperform dark lances in this regard. For the lances, 1/6 hits, 1/3 pens +1/6 glance, 1/3 are saved. That's about 1/27 pens, 1/54 glances. And pens have less than 50% chance of doing something important.

13 lances will not reliably drop a Drake a turn. Sounds like you got lucky one time, and/or you tailor your list (which is acceptable against Helldrakes I suppose).

Also, just because a Wave Serpent spam list is worse cheese doesn't mean this isn't cheese.

(Also, wouldn't serpent spam eat this, if you are aiming for broken?)

Bharring wrote:
All the times you faced helldrake or vendetta spam you rolled that warlord trait *and* only one came in each time?

Also, how is that enough? Two Dev squads without chapter tactics struggle to drop one Drake a turn, and those outperform dark lances in this regard. For the lances, 1/6 hits, 1/3 pens +1/6 glance, 1/3 are saved. That's about 1/27 pens, 1/54 glances. And pens have less than 50% chance of doing something important.

13 lances will not reliably drop a Drake a turn. Sounds like you got lucky one time, and/or you tailor your list (which is acceptable against Helldrakes I suppose).

Also, just because a Wave Serpent spam list is worse cheese doesn't mean this isn't cheese.

(Also, wouldn't serpent spam eat this, if you are aiming for broken?)

13 lances is certainly enough to deal with drakes a turn. Also, with DE manueverability drakes aren't that much of a concern. By the time the drakes come in, we've done our damage, as with vect we're going first 75% of the time. A pair of drakes won't win the game by themselves. Also, with everything in transports, they're really not that effective vs us until things pop, but that's why turn one, we blow up their anti tank first then watch them struggle to do anything while our skimmers do as they please.

Wave serpent spam would absolutely wreck this list. I never stated it wouldn't.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Something's not adding up here. You win every game and usually table your opponent by turn 3?

That's how my last 5 games have gone


Automatically Appended Next Post:

clively wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
I run:

Vect
5 venoms
4 raiders with splinter racks
3 ravagers
3x 3 trueborn with 2 splinter cannons each
50 warriors 3 w/ splinter cannons

Compared to the armies out there, i hardly view this as cheese...

I'm a DE player.

It depends on your meta... my meta will waste that list.

I'm also a DE player and ditto. The list has absolutely no capability to effectively deal with the things I regularly see on the tabletop.

Maybe you're not playing the army correctly? It has a very unforgiving movement phase.

Yeah, clively!

You're doing it wrong!