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Proper cheese.

Your "I've won every game I've played" quote shows that your attitude towards the game is geared towards winning, so you've built a list that does that (or perhaps more accurately you've skimmed it off of the web).

If that's the way you want to approach the hobby, then fine. There's nothing illegal here. But don't try to pass this off as anything other than a super competitive list.

 scottmmmm wrote:
Proper cheese.

Your "I've won every game I've played" quote shows that your attitude towards the game is geared towards winning, so you've built a list that does that (or perhaps more accurately you've skimmed it off of the web).

If that's the way you want to approach the hobby, then fine. There's nothing illegal here. But don't try to pass this off as anything other than a super competitive list.

If this was super competitive, it'd have 9 venoms instead of only 5. Also, stating I've won every game doesn't mean I'm WAAC, is my attitude geared towards winning? Probably, I think everyone while playing wants to win. Regardless of level of competition, nobody wants to lose, lol.

We're trying to politely say that you come across as a "WAAC" type of player.

 MWHistorian wrote:
We're trying to politely say that you come across as a "WAAC" type of player.

Interesting, there's a thread active right now in this forum that helps explain that fielding good lists and wanting to win whilst playing doesn't make you a WAAC player. I advise people to check it out: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/585177.page

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
We're trying to politely say that you come across as a "WAAC" type of player.

Interesting, there's a thread active right now in this forum that helps explain that fielding good lists and wanting to win whilst playing doesn't make you a WAAC player. I advise people to check it out: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/585177.page

But your attitude sure does. You field a cheese list (whether or not it's the epitome of cheese, as in your "If I was WAAC I'd field 9 of them" comment), it's still cheese, you have admitted yourself that you win every game you play and usually table your opponent, and you've said in the prior thread that anyone upset that you've tabled them needs to "grow up", showing that you don't care if somebody else is having fun playing against your "not cheese" cheese list. You've also been extremely defensive of anything that doesn't put things in your favor. That's why you come across like a WAAC player: You're only out for your own enjoyment, and screw anybody else. That's the definition of TFG and a WAAC player.

It's rather telling that everyone who has disagreed with you, you have some semi-condescending words to defend yourself and play it up like you're innocent.

As I said before, speaking as an internet troll this is all classic troll behavior, so don't be surprised when people are leery.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
We're trying to politely say that you come across as a "WAAC" type of player.

Interesting, there's a thread active right now in this forum that helps explain that fielding good lists and wanting to win whilst playing doesn't make you a WAAC player. I advise people to check it out: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/585177.page

Thank you for teaching us how wrong we are for thinking that you're a WAAC player. Surely we're all no-nothings as compared to your vast experience on the subject.

The other thing that gets me is why bother with this thread. You clearly don't value our feedback, so why post?

I think one of the fist commenters was right. You enjoy trolling. That's the only explanation for this thread.

DakkaDakka: I see WAAC Players.

Dalymiddleboro: In your dreams?

[DakkaDakka shakes his head no]

Dalymiddleboro: While you're awake?

[DakkaDakka nods]

Dalymiddleboro: WAAC players like, online? In MMOs?

DakkaDakka: Walking around like regular people. They don't see each other. They only see what they want to see. They don't know they're WAAC Players.

Dalymiddleboro: How often do you see them?

DakkaDakka: All the time. They're everywhere.

WayneTheGame wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
We're trying to politely say that you come across as a "WAAC" type of player.

Interesting, there's a thread active right now in this forum that helps explain that fielding good lists and wanting to win whilst playing doesn't make you a WAAC player. I advise people to check it out: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/585177.page

But your attitude sure does. You field a cheese list (whether or not it's the epitome of cheese, as in your "If I was WAAC I'd field 9 of them" comment), it's still cheese, you have admitted yourself that you win every game you play and usually table your opponent, and you've said in the prior thread that anyone upset that you've tabled them needs to "grow up", showing that you don't care if somebody else is having fun playing against your "not cheese" cheese list. You've also been extremely defensive of anything that doesn't put things in your favor. That's why you come across like a WAAC player: You're only out for your own enjoyment, and screw anybody else. That's the definition of TFG and a WAAC player.

It's rather telling that everyone who has disagreed with you, you have some semi-condescending words to defend yourself and play it up like you're innocent.

As I said before, speaking as an internet troll this is all classic troll behavior, so don't be surprised when people are leery.

An army that's all T3 5+ armor need transports. So when I Take transports I'm cheese? There's no fliers in this list, nothing insanely overpowered either... This list isn't cheese and isn't even close to the most competitive thing DE can bring. There's not even a beast star. So I'll have to agree with you there.

Also, if other people aren't having fun, why are they playing? Seems like if this is the type of hobby that can make people throw their stuff around and have a temper tantrum, then they should look into other ways to spend their time. Also, as stated before, I don't care enough about peoples opinions to even begin to troll. Anywho, have a great day man and happy wargaming!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kronk wrote:
DakkaDakka: I see WAAC Players.

Dalymiddleboro: In your dreams?

[DakkaDakka shakes his head no]

Dalymiddleboro: While you're awake?

[DakkaDakka nods]

Dalymiddleboro: WAAC players like, online? In MMOs?

DakkaDakka: Walking around like regular people. They don't see each other. They only see what they want to see. They don't know they're WAAC Players.

Dalymiddleboro: How often do you see them?

DakkaDakka: All the time. They're everywhere.

This made me lol IRL.

 kronk wrote:
DakkaDakka: I see WAAC Players.

Dalymiddleboro: In your dreams?

[DakkaDakka shakes his head no]

Dalymiddleboro: While you're awake?

[DakkaDakka nods]

Dalymiddleboro: WAAC players like, online? In MMOs?

DakkaDakka: Walking around like regular people. They don't see each other. They only see what they want to see. They don't know they're WAAC Players.

Dalymiddleboro: How often do you see them?

DakkaDakka: All the time. They're everywhere.

Have an exalt!

 scottmmmm wrote:
The other thing that gets me is why bother with this thread. You clearly don't value our feedback, so why post?

I think one of the fist commenters was right. You enjoy trolling. That's the only explanation for this thread.

There's been people in this thread that have agreed this isn't cheese.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 scottmmmm wrote:
The other thing that gets me is why bother with this thread. You clearly don't value our feedback, so why post?

I think one of the fist commenters was right. You enjoy trolling. That's the only explanation for this thread.

There's been people in this thread that have agreed this isn't cheese.

But if you don't care about what people online say, why does that matter?

 curran12 wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 scottmmmm wrote:
The other thing that gets me is why bother with this thread. You clearly don't value our feedback, so why post?

I think one of the fist commenters was right. You enjoy trolling. That's the only explanation for this thread.

There's been people in this thread that have agreed this isn't cheese.

But if you don't care about what people online say, why does that matter?

None of this matters, I work help desk and have time to kill. Was wondering peoples' thoughts on the subject. Will it affect me? Nope. Just was curious what the community thought while I had time to kill. Doesn't mean their opinions matter enough to resinate with me.

Fight Tau, even a BAD Tau player would make you cry.

Your list essentially relies on vast 4+ poisons as a number crunch method to push wounds (Which is vastly seen as cheese and unfun to play against) Where most other armies have to rely on dice to actually give them that 1-2 lucky shots here and there. When you bring 250+ poison 4+ dice to a game, you'll find yourself very lonely in a friendly game environment. Tournament wise, go for it.

GoliothOnline wrote:
Fight Tau, even a BAD Tau player would make you cry.

Your list essentially relies on vast 4+ poisons as a number crunch method to push wounds (Which is vastly seen as cheese and unfun to play against) Where most other armies have to rely on dice to actually give them that 1-2 lucky shots here and there. When you bring 250+ poison 4+ dice to a game, you'll find yourself very lonely in a friendly game environment. Tournament wise, go for it.

Playing them today! I'll let ya know how it goes!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Off to my game gents! Wishe me luck!

Ok so will try to be a bit more productive here and try to give advice on how to stop the whinging in your FLGS (rather than who points the finger of WAAC):

So you seem to enjoy the fluff behind your army whilst having a good force, correct?

Ok then, by following that here is what you should do:

A) It seems that you like the Kabal route with the use of Vect and Kabalite warriors

B ) Get rid of the Venoms. You're playing a Kabal, not a gladiator arena.

C) Get Dias for Vect and pack up on the Raiders fill the Venom slots in with Raiders.

Should look a lot more reflective on the background and still a good force to boot on the battlefield, being a lot more TAC and should stop your opponents from grumbling

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
I run:

Vect
5 venoms
4 raiders with splinter racks
3 ravagers
3x 3 trueborn with 2 splinter cannons each
50 warriors 3 w/ splinter cannons

Compared to the armies out there, i hardly view this as cheese...

If your running a competitive list vs casual opponents, then its no wonder they don't like it.

You may find yourself with a lack of opponents if you insist on it.

You want to run a very competitive list? Try your luck at a tourney and see if you can still beat every opponent.

Meh I am not overly impressed nor worried about the list. But yes, it dose reek of both chedar and other dairy products.
And I agree with the person above me

As a long time competitive DE player, this list is mid tier at best. Top of the DE pile is still Venom spam and Eldar/DE Beaststar.

But yeah, when a halfway competent DE list wins, its still tends to win big so people may call cheese. Its why I don't play DE in casual games. Or really play that many casual games, as most of my lists are tournament orientate and beating up casual players is no fun for them and teaches me nothing about the capability of my list.

To make your list a little more fun for your opponents, because seriously, copy/pasting min/maxed units to the nines is boring as feth, try some of the following:

- Put Vect on his Dias as suggested already.

- Grab a Kabalite squad on foot of 12-15 grunts + 2x Dark Lances. They can camp home objectives, and aren't as frustrating to chase about as a bunch of tiny Venom squads worth barely 150pts a pop.

- Trade out one unit of Splinter Cannon Trueborn for some Blasterborn.

- Bring your completely absent messenger Scourges - seriously, how the feth do you threaten your opponents in proper Dark Eldar fashion without your messenger boys to carry the severed heads to the enemy commander?!

- Add a few Sybarites to help keep the lackies from getting delusions of grandeur, as well as add some character to your Kabalites. (not every squad, but seriously, at least a couple!)

- Incubi are a must in any self-respecting Kabalite themed army, especially during less hyper competitive friendly pick-up games.
Heck, even just a token squad of 5 in a Venom who can pounce on depleted squads to finish them off would be a nice touch!



Do at least a couple of the above, and your list won't come across as nearly so harsh, especially vs. opponents who aren't exactly just "in it to win it."

Experiment 626 wrote:
- Incubi are a must in any self-respecting Kabalite themed army

And if you decide to take Eldar allies, you can than throw in Drazher and Karandras and have them both run with the Incubi, because nothing is sweeter than the tears of the fluff-monkeys.

 Happyjew wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
- Incubi are a must in any self-respecting Kabalite themed army

And if you decide to take Eldar allies, you can than throw in Drazher and Karandras and have them both run with the Incubi, because nothing is sweeter than the tears of the fluff-monkeys.

Convert 2 additional 'chainblade' arms + a bald Daemonette headswap to Karandras, call him Ahrah the Father of Scorpions, and enjoy the fact that the super fluff-monkeys can't argue it while still being highly offended at the same time!

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

Zewrath wrote:
How do you handle Helldrakes or Necron Air force? You said Vendetta and Helldrakes was on the list of things you've faced and beat, but as a DE player myself... How the actual fack did you handle yourself vs Helldrake? Or let me guess, you brought a cheese list and you played vs a nice guy that brought only 1 of those things? Because my simple math hammer suggests that there's less than 1/100th of a chance to do actual damage vs a Helldrake with 5++ with your snap shotting Ravagers and if you're telling me that you managed to table a guy that had 2-3 of those things flying around that obliterates the vast majority of your units, then you're playing vs mentally handicapped people, no offense.

Yea, rolled -1 to his reserves as my warlord trait, they came peice mail. And it's not just the ravagers that throw lances at the drake, I also have 4 raiders... Glanced them down with snapshots each. Really wasn't too difficult. Also, when they come on, they'll vector strike a thing, it's not gaurunteed to do damage. after that, the bale flamer is pretty poor against us, and we're quick enough to not get vector struck anymore. It's all about the movement phase man, if you're having trouble with drakes you should get more acquainted with your movement. Vendettas can be a little tougher when they hover, but then we get to throw lances at them at full BS. 4 Raiders with 5 venoms as opposed to 9 venom triple ravager, really helps us with getting more lances on the table for fliers. Hope this helped, thanks!

So you're now trying to lecture me now? You're seriously saying that a warlord trait that you get 1/6th of the time + the math that the other guy posted with chance to glance vs helldrakes is a solution? What? Their vector strike requires 3+ to pen you and ignores cover, their flamer can re-roll pens/wounds so he will ALWAYS destroy any of your unit that actually matters if he wishes to do so.
Tau will drop this list, not without effort though. Wave Serpent spam will drop this list. A good Gravstar will drop this list.

Also, drop the attitude, I know all about DE movement, pivoting for extra inches and premeassure. Also, your comment about Vendettas going into hover mode, allowing every single lance weapon to drop it, confirmed my suspicion that you're indeed playing vs mentally handicapped and you're proud enough to pummel those kind of people with your cookie cutter list.

Not really going to agree with the die hard math hammerers out there but this is even seeming a little fishy to me. You are telling me that in the 5 games you have played that every game was against one of the "feared" net lists that other armies bring to the table? Sorry mate something is not adding up there. And honestly the list doesn't bother me at all but your apparent attitude is. Perhaps I am mistaken but if you post a thread for feedback and spend the rest of the thread fighting against people who disagree with your opinion why post the thread at all? I am going to have to go with that your opponents are either not that good of players (nothing personal against them, just may need to play the game more) or the lists you are facing are not on par with the list you are fielding.

Yes it has a lot of Dark Lances and yes it can put out a good volume of shots, and either you are extremely lucky that night fighting, rolling on the armor pen table, reserve rolls, ect. have yet to come into play or something else is going on. In regards to the list itself I am a competitive player (not at all a WAAC player, just like bringing competitive lists as bringing my A game vs someone elses A game is fun) so this list would be an interesting challenge for my Elysians, however if your opponents are not bringing lists up to this caliber you need to be willing to dumb down yours to make it a fun game as others may not have the money for models or just play the game for fun. Even then there is something you are either not mentioning because it sounds to good to be true with the stories you are telling. If you have fun winning games by turn 3 with your opponent unable to do anything then have fun mate, as you can see if you keep it up people wont want to play you.

So much personally geared bias and hate in this thread....

Annnyywaaayyyyy, there is no yes or no answer to your original question, but basically, if you ever see any sort of competitive lists in your meta, there is no foot to stand on to call this build cheese. Even if you don't, its a decent list, far from perfect, has massive holes (A. its Dark Eldar who are sometimes even auto-lose vs specific armies B. you are very low on lances), and Dark Eldar even built perfectly isn't a cheese army its one of the lower powered ones.

Filling up all your infantry in transports? Anyone who plays DE for a while will quickly see that is the most sensible thing to do. Other than infantry squads in transports, there isn't much else you can take for this style of list that makes it less cheesy but doesn't feel like deliberately kneecapping yourself and taking away from the theme of your list. Pain Engines are going to be an expensive waste of points here, there are no tanks in this army other than Ravagers, take fliers with this and you will be called even more cheesy, Reavers (and other fast attack units) work but don't necessarily make the list much different.

The fact is, this is what this style of list does, and it is a very sensible way to play DE. People call anything that beats them, and anything with even light spam, cheese. Ask them for their Dark Eldar list and how they would build it. Watch the responses of gak like walking units of Warriors, Hexatrix Bloodbrides and Incubi. Ignore these people who have no idea how your army needs to be play and let them go back to their IG and Heldrake CSM.

If it is bothering you I'd recommend dropping 2 Venoms and a Raider for some fast attack units. Beastmasters Reavers or Scourges will fit in nicely, and you'll have a bit more variation in your list. Or just tell people to grow up.

Is it bad that I personally know dalymiddleboro, and have for almost 7 years now, and the guy he is here on the forums isn't a thing what he is like in person. It's adorable that he is such a douche to internet strangers when he is a carebear in real life.

Sorry to blow up your spot buddy, you know I love ya like family, but tone it down. You make yourself and people who personally know you feel awkward for knowing you on the internet. Be yourself, and I'm sure the nice people of Dakka will love ya like I do =)

PS, your crap spam DE list is gonna get tabled by my mediocre space marines this weekend. You'll like it =)

Annnddd yet again the thread has spiraled out of controll.
Like every other one.
Common denominator.....Daly


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and also while looking threw Daly's posting history... a LOT have been in introductions. And from somebody who values people based on their post count (True story, Daly said it), I believe this is just to up his posts. Fun fact of the day.

He can value people however he likes.

I will value people based on reasonable, well thought out and logical arguments, regardless of if they agree with mine or not, wit and humour in those posts and the demonstration of an ability to not take things too seriously, nor incite others to do so.

Oh yeah, and 4K posts, baby!

Mike94656 wrote:
Is it bad that I personally know dalymiddleboro, and have for almost 7 years now, and the guy he is here on the forums isn't a thing what he is like in person. It's adorable that he is such a douche to internet strangers when he is a carebear in real life.

Sorry to blow up your spot buddy, you know I love ya like family, but tone it down. You make yourself and people who personally know you feel awkward for knowing you on the internet. Be yourself, and I'm sure the nice people of Dakka will love ya like I do =)

PS, your crap spam DE list is gonna get tabled by my mediocre space marines this weekend. You'll like it =)

Bro, do you even lift? Also, I'm like 90 wins and two losses against you. Take a few breaths pal.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

Mike94656 wrote:
Is it bad that I personally know dalymiddleboro, and have for almost 7 years now, and the guy he is here on the forums isn't a thing what he is like in person. It's adorable that he is such a douche to internet strangers when he is a carebear in real life.

Sorry to blow up your spot buddy, you know I love ya like family, but tone it down. You make yourself and people who personally know you feel awkward for knowing you on the internet. Be yourself, and I'm sure the nice people of Dakka will love ya like I do =)

PS, your crap spam DE list is gonna get tabled by my mediocre space marines this weekend. You'll like it =)

Bro, do you even lift? Also, I'm like 90 wins and two losses against you. Take a few breaths pal.

You're trying too hard at this now.