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You should post those pictures you took. Indeed playing hundreds of games will make you leaps and bounds ahead of most people. I've played a DE list like this one before and yeah I was almost tabled. (Had one demo charge special weapon guy left locked in combat with a warrior turn five). Sure I'm normally a "fluff" player using Straken, power blobs and rough riders. But next time I'll adapt and maybe use 6 Leman Russ tanks with prescience, 4+ invul saves from power field generators and prescience colossus and we'll have a more "even" match. Main point being your opponents need to be able to take a beating and try and learn from it. Also you need to make sure you have a good attitude as well while "playing" your games. If I have to stand there and remove close to half my army from one round of shooting while getting snarky comments (not saying thats what you do) I would be inclined to hate DE and that type of list.

Yeah, I went to Flagship a couple times, but not that much, and sarges but not in years (5th ed.)

 portugus wrote:
You should post those pictures you took. Indeed playing hundreds of games will make you leaps and bounds ahead of most people. I've played a DE list like this one before and yeah I was almost tabled. (Had one demo charge special weapon guy left locked in combat with a warrior turn five). Sure I'm normally a "fluff" player using Straken, power blobs and rough riders. But next time I'll adapt and maybe use 6 Leman Russ tanks with prescience, 4+ invul saves from power field generators and prescience colossus and we'll have a more "even" match. Main point being your opponents need to be able to take a beating and try and learn from it. Also you need to make sure you have a good attitude as well while "playing" your games. If I have to stand there and remove close to half my army from one round of shooting while getting snarky comments (not saying thats what you do) I would be inclined to hate DE and that type of list.

Yea, later for sure I'll get those pics posted after I Take my husky to the dog park. I'm always nice to people during games, and that's why it frustrates me when people are losing to me they huck their models or get a crappy attitude at me, since I'm always more than kind. So far so good though with the DE, they're pretty powerful on the alpha strike. I'm having a lot of fun with them. I just don't think my list is cheese and other people who don't understand how DE work do... I appreciate you looking at this objectively though.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Lol, I don't have to prove anything to the folks here,

The saying goes that an absurd claim made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. If you're insisting on these repeated results without providing any backing, then it implies that you exaggerate, lie, and/or cheat. I'm not calling you out as those, just stating how if you continue to present an implausible scenario repeatedly then you'll get skepticism in response.
Btw, I won the last 8 local poker games by going all in on a royal flush and nobody folding. How many people in this thread would take that at face value?

I'm honestly happy knowing what I've done.

which is why you had to make a thread so you could brag about it and have people tell you how great you are apparently.

Also, I don't cheat.

and again, this has no meaning. As I've previously stated a liar doesn't stop being a liar when asked if he lies.

Don't get me wrong, I think DE are a good army and have tools to hold their own in a game. I know they have a glass cannon aspect that can fall apart very fast if faced against a decent counter. If you wanted to talk about the merits of the army and how they are underrated/underrepresented then fine. If you want to talk about interesting tactics and list building ideas, fine.

But I'm not for ego stroking, which I believe was the original intent of the thread. After all who starts a thread that's effectively "Everyone tells me that I'm doing so good that I must be using an unfair list. Please tell me that my list isn't that cheesy so I can feel even better about curb stomping them with it. After all, I could have made it even worse for them."

 Savageconvoy wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Lol, I don't have to prove anything to the folks here,

The saying goes that an absurd claim made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. If you're insisting on these repeated results without providing any backing, then it implies that you exaggerate, lie, and/or cheat. I'm not calling you out as those, just stating how if you continue to present an implausible scenario repeatedly then you'll get skepticism in response.
Btw, I won the last 8 local poker games by going all in on a royal flush and nobody folding. How many people in this thread would take that at face value?

I'm honestly happy knowing what I've done.

which is why you had to make a thread so you could brag about it and have people tell you how great you are apparently.

Also, I don't cheat.

and again, this has no meaning. As I've previously stated a liar doesn't stop being a liar when asked if he lies.

Don't get me wrong, I think DE are a good army and have tools to hold their own in a game. I know they have a glass cannon aspect that can fall apart very fast if faced against a decent counter. If you wanted to talk about the merits of the army and how they are underrated/underrepresented then fine. If you want to talk about interesting tactics and list building ideas, fine.

But I'm not for ego stroking, which I believe was the original intent of the thread. After all who starts a thread that's effectively "Everyone tells me that I'm doing so good that I must be using an unfair list. Please tell me that my list isn't that cheesy so I can feel even better about curb stomping them with it. After all, I could have made it even worse for them."

I'm not bragging, I'm trying to figure out why this list is being called cheese. No ego stroking nada, that started occurring when people started make erroneous claims / remarks about me / my games.

Believe what you want, I'm the one happy with the 7-0 record a month into playing DE. Tabling Tau was the sweetest win of them all though. Figured since you called me a bragger, I'll start bragging. In any event please stop digressing from the topic, or post in someone else's thread. Thanks so much man, hope you have a wonderful afternoon!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Breng77 wrote:
Yeah, I went to Flagship a couple times, but not that much, and sarges but not in years (5th ed.)

Cool man, I moved back to the Boston area when I broke up with my GF down there. You ever go to BG events? I'll be at their swedish komp event this Saturday!

Yeah. My bad. Not sure why I got the vibe that you were bragging

So far, I haven't lost a game yet, and faced IG, white scars, ultra marines, daemons, and heldrake/ nurgle csm. Most games I've pretty much tabled by turn three, but i digress.

I have better things to do than lie about victories in toy soldiers. But if you must know, since picking up Dark Eldar a month ago, my record is 6 wins and zero losses. 4 of those wins being complete tabling.

I don't know if I'm a good player or not. I've played 5 different armies, in different metas and states and haven't lost many games at all.

I'm sure the fact that I've probably literally played over 100 games of sixth probably helps as well. I'm also winning with different armies not just DE. Since sixth I've continued this trend with Necrons, CSM, Daemons, IG and Dark Eldar now. Got Space Wolves on the way!

If this was super competitive, it'd have 9 venoms instead of only 5.

Or why I thought you wanted praise. I mean it's not like you've had an overly positive reaction to someone just saying it wasn't a cheesy list.

It just restores my faith in humanity a little bit, when someone with his head on his shoulders speaks up.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
Yeah. My bad. Not sure why I got the vibe that you were bragging

So far, I haven't lost a game yet, and faced IG, white scars, ultra marines, daemons, and heldrake/ nurgle csm. Most games I've pretty much tabled by turn three, but i digress.

I have better things to do than lie about victories in toy soldiers. But if you must know, since picking up Dark Eldar a month ago, my record is 6 wins and zero losses. 4 of those wins being complete tabling.

I don't know if I'm a good player or not. I've played 5 different armies, in different metas and states and haven't lost many games at all.

I'm sure the fact that I've probably literally played over 100 games of sixth probably helps as well. I'm also winning with different armies not just DE. Since sixth I've continued this trend with Necrons, CSM, Daemons, IG and Dark Eldar now. Got Space Wolves on the way!

If this was super competitive, it'd have 9 venoms instead of only 5.

Or why I thought you wanted praise. I mean it's not like you've had an overly positive reaction to someone just saying it wasn't a cheesy list.

It just restores my faith in humanity a little bit, when someone with his head on his shoulders speaks up.

That was a very interesting read!

 Savageconvoy wrote:
Yeah. My bad. Not sure why I got the vibe that you were bragging

So far, I haven't lost a game yet, and faced IG, white scars, ultra marines, daemons, and heldrake/ nurgle csm. Most games I've pretty much tabled by turn three, but i digress.

I have better things to do than lie about victories in toy soldiers. But if you must know, since picking up Dark Eldar a month ago, my record is 6 wins and zero losses. 4 of those wins being complete tabling.

I don't know if I'm a good player or not. I've played 5 different armies, in different metas and states and haven't lost many games at all.

I'm sure the fact that I've probably literally played over 100 games of sixth probably helps as well. I'm also winning with different armies not just DE. Since sixth I've continued this trend with Necrons, CSM, Daemons, IG and Dark Eldar now. Got Space Wolves on the way!

If this was super competitive, it'd have 9 venoms instead of only 5.

Or why I thought you wanted praise. I mean it's not like you've had an overly positive reaction to someone just saying it wasn't a cheesy list.

It just restores my faith in humanity a little bit, when someone with his head on his shoulders speaks up.

Well, when you put it like that...

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
That was a very interesting read!

Funny, all narcissists prefer their own content over others.

To stay true to topic: the list posted is a straightforward net list that does not require much thought.
Noticed you listed armies you beat that tend to rely on footsloggers or high toughness (bikes, nurgle) which your poison would nerf: who would have thought!

Oddly enough, anyone fielding a few vehicles would laugh at this army.

I would suggest trying out a Voidraven Bomber just to add that extra fun (options, mayhem) but people are getting a little more into AA: results may vary.

 Talizvar wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
That was a very interesting read!

Funny, all narcissists prefer their own content over others.

To stay true to topic: the list posted is a straightforward net list that does not require much thought.
Noticed you listed armies you beat that tend to rely on footsloggers or high toughness (bikes, nurgle) which your poison would nerf: who would have thought!

Oddly enough, anyone fielding a few vehicles would laugh at this army.

I would suggest trying out a Voidraven Bomber just to add that extra fun (options, mayhem) but people are getting a little more into AA: results may vary.

I think you missed the 13 dark lances in the list, firing at bs 4. The only mech list that concerns me is wave serpent spam.

Have you played vs Serpent Spam yet? A well done one will tear your list a new one. Additionally, have you played vs Screamerstar? They'll eat you alive as well.

Lucarikx

 Lucarikx wrote:
Have you played vs Serpent Spam yet? A well done one will tear your list a new one. Additionally, have you played vs Screamerstar? They'll eat you alive as well.

Lucarikx

Actually, dark eldar alpha strike venom spam lists are designed for deathstars. And read the above post i wrote about we've serpents. I already agreed they'd be trouble.

Can you remind me how Vect steals initiative again? I haven't played vs DE in a while.

Lucarikx

 Lucarikx wrote:
Can you remind me how Vect steals initiative again? I haven't played vs DE in a while.

Lucarikx

Steals on a 4+ .with vect in the army, you've got a 75% chance at first turn.

 Lucarikx wrote:
Can you remind me how Vect steals initiative again? I haven't played vs DE in a while.

Lucarikx

He has that rule.

If you're going second, with Vect in your army, you can elect to Seize the Initiative on a 4+, as opposed to the usual 6+.

Oh... @kronk... have an exalt.

I just want to see the actual tau list he went against.
13 dark lances should kill about 3.6 Broadsides a turn, assuming he didn't go to ground and didn't have drones.

It should take about 90 poison shots to kill a Riptide, 162 if the buff commander is there to control wound allocation. If stim inj was used on the commander it goes up to 198.

Firewarriors and pathfinders have little regard for either weapon and both are equipped well enough to deal some offensive damage.

Who went first this game?

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I just want to see the actual tau list he went against.
13 dark lances should kill about 3.6 Broadsides a turn, assuming he didn't go to ground and didn't have drones.

It should take about 90 poison shots to kill a Riptide, 162 if the buff commander is there to control wound allocation. If stim inj was used on the commander it goes up to 198.

Firewarriors and pathfinders have little regard for either weapon and both are equipped well enough to deal some offensive damage.

Who went first this game?

If DE goes first, Tau can have a hard time.

In my meta, we have optimize Tau, Eldau and Necron lists galore. Here's my list idea to counter those:

HQ: Vect in his pimping Dias
HQ: Haemy with Liquifier+venom blade in Vect's Pimping Dias
Elites: 8 Inclubies to go in Vect's Pimping Dias
Troops: 3 Wracks in Venom+splinter cannon
Troops: 3 Wracks in Venom+splinter cannon
Troops: 3 Wracks in Venom+splinter cannon
Troops: 3 Wracks in Venom+splinter cannon
Fast: Razorwing - stock equipment
Heavy: Ravager with 3 Dissies
Heavy: Ravager with 3 DL
Heavy: Ravager with 3 DL
Allied HQ: SpiritSeer
Allied Troops: 7 Wraithguard (cannon)
Allied Heavy: Wraith Knight - stock equipment

-With Vect, there's still 3 "Ravager-like" platforms on the table with 9 DL
-The one "Dissy" Ravager throw's out 9 S5 AP2 shots that'll make the Riptide+ Broadside+Termies+Protected Seer Council cry
-Vect's Pimping Dias is the perfect ride for delivering Vect and the Incubies, or if you're forced to bottom turn, use the Dias to shield the over paper airplanes
-Razorwing is the dual AA + ground threats.
-SpiritSeer with Wraithguard would usually march forward towards the baddies
-WraithKnight use situationally. S10 HoW anyone?

I have the Forgeworld Tantalus to be used as Vect's Pimping Dias... once that's together, I'm gonna try this.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Lucarikx wrote:
Have you played vs Serpent Spam yet? A well done one will tear your list a new one. Additionally, have you played vs Screamerstar? They'll eat you alive as well.

Lucarikx

Actually, dark eldar alpha strike venom spam lists are designed for deathstars. And read the above post i wrote about we've serpents. I already agreed they'd be trouble.

the venom spam vs deathstar largely comes down to Los blocking terrain, if the screamers etc can hide and get powers off they win if not the lose.

Breng77 wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 Lucarikx wrote:
Have you played vs Serpent Spam yet? A well done one will tear your list a new one. Additionally, have you played vs Screamerstar? They'll eat you alive as well.

Lucarikx

Actually, dark eldar alpha strike venom spam lists are designed for deathstars. And read the above post i wrote about we've serpents. I already agreed they'd be trouble.

the venom spam vs deathstar largely comes down to Los blocking terrain, if the screamers etc can hide and get powers off they win if not the lose.

Very true.

That's why if I have Vect, and I win the initial deploy first, sometimes I'll give my opponent first turn. It all comes down to deployment... so if my opponent deploys aggressively and I seize, that works to my advantage.

Yeah but smart players won't deploy aggressively against vect. Better to rely on doing damage later than risking dying early.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

I never started confrontation here. I've been just trying to discuss how people seem to think this list is cheese, when I have everyone on thedarkcity.net talking to me and they're agreeing it's a good well rounded non overpowered list.

I actually signed up just to respond to this.

Firstly, 6 responses (one in fact being yourself asking for input) on DarkCity does NOT constitute "Everyone". I will freely admit however, that I do not frequent the Army List section too often, as it holds little interest for me.

Second, You entitled this army list on DarkCity as "1850 Dark Eldar Tourney List. Swedish Komp style tourney. Looking for C&C", and were considerably more approachable with your attitude, therefore you were bound to get more reasonable responses. You made it clear that this is a competitive list, being designed for a tournament. You gave no such information here. You also have not mentioned anything about games won, player feedback or anything else on your DarkCity post.

If you had laid out your post here in a similar vein to the one on DarkCity, that it is a competitive list for a tournament, that you are doing well with but are getting some hassle with from your opponents regarding "Cheese", you may have had some more constructive responses.

As it is you came into one of the more... Vocal... forums in the hobby where it must be said, some members have been less than passive with their replies, and some have been really quite aggressive. What did you think would happen?

Anyway, onto the list.

I think its dull. I think it takes units that require minimal effort to use, and spams them. I would personally, not touch this list with a 40-foot barge pole. It is, therefore, an effective tournament list, and if you are inflicting it upon pick-up games without prior warning then I believe you may be someone I'd quite like to avoid. If, however you are approaching players, explaining that you would like to test your tournament list against the strongest list they can field, and you are winning, then kudos. I will not take credit away where it is due, and I certainly do not dispute the fact that it is possible for you to be doing so. I will, however, leave judgement until I see your battle reports and can judge for myself your skill, relative to your opponent and their list.

So, in closing, perhaps a little more care in setting out your original posts (and your rebuttals) would be in order, and a slight attitude adjustment in your willingness to be the bigger man and acquiesce to (perhaps sometimes rude) demands for proof. You have nothing to hide, so why be defensive and state "I don't have to prove myself to a stranger on the internet"? You're right, you don't have to. But don't expect to be believed out of hand on your word.

Be like the Tree, Strike like the Rock
Sudowoodo1

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I just want to see the actual tau list he went against.
13 dark lances should kill about 3.6 Broadsides a turn, assuming he didn't go to ground and didn't have drones.

Wouldnt it be 7.2 Broadsides a turn?

4/6 (to hit) * 5/6 (to/wound) = 0.555

AP2 means no Armor Safe and S8 vs T4 is a IK.

Therefore 0.555 * 13 = 7,215 dead broadsides per turn...

MasterOfGaunts wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I just want to see the actual tau list he went against.
13 dark lances should kill about 3.6 Broadsides a turn, assuming he didn't go to ground and didn't have drones.

Wouldnt it be 7.2 Broadsides a turn?

4/6 (to hit) * 5/6 (to/wound) = 0.555

AP2 means no Armor Safe and S8 vs T4 is a IK.

Therefore 0.555 * 13 = 7,215 dead broadsides per turn...

Cover?

It's hard for me to see him leaving broadsides in los and not just risking snap shots in his turn one of shooting and keeping them safe.

It's harder for me to see them not going to ground for a 3-4+ save and again risk snap shooting.

I will refuse to assume he left them out in the open.

Sudowoodo1 wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:

I never started confrontation here. I've been just trying to discuss how people seem to think this list is cheese, when I have everyone on thedarkcity.net talking to me and they're agreeing it's a good well rounded non overpowered list.

I actually signed up just to respond to this.

Firstly, 6 responses (one in fact being yourself asking for input) on DarkCity does NOT constitute "Everyone". I will freely admit however, that I do not frequent the Army List section too often, as it holds little interest for me.

Second, You entitled this army list on DarkCity as "1850 Dark Eldar Tourney List. Swedish Komp style tourney. Looking for C&C", and were considerably more approachable with your attitude, therefore you were bound to get more reasonable responses. You made it clear that this is a competitive list, being designed for a tournament. You gave no such information here. You also have not mentioned anything about games won, player feedback or anything else on your DarkCity post.

Very interesting as here and in the other (locked) thread it was insinuated that these were normal, everyday games and nothing relating to a tournament, which is also why a lot of the "cheese" cries were mentioned - using a list like this in a regular friendly game is certainly on the cheese side of the spectrum, along with the constant egotistical "I've won every game" and "most of them I've tabled my opponent by turn 3" and "I've played hundreds of games with multiple armies and lost very few of them" rubs people the wrong way.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
I think you missed the 13 dark lances in the list, firing at bs 4. The only mech list that concerns me is wave serpent spam.

I think you intentionally missed listing which choice you made in your army list on your ravagers (what? No templates?) and raiders so you can say what you want.
Also it depends on how many of those lances can uniquely target and got line of sight.
You have to hit hard or you die like a dog (glass cannon) when anyone shoots back.
All you have to do is hope no-one has any good terrain handy and you get to go first.
Brilliant tactics!

 Talizvar wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
I think you missed the 13 dark lances in the list, firing at bs 4. The only mech list that concerns me is wave serpent spam.

I think you intentionally missed listing which choice you made in your army list on your ravagers (what? No templates?) and raiders so you can say what you want.
Also it depends on how many of those lances can uniquely target and got line of sight.
You have to hit hard or you die like a dog (glass cannon) when anyone shoots back.
All you have to do is hope no-one has any good terrain handy and you get to go first.
Brilliant tactics!

With vect i go first 75% of the time. And fast skimmers move 12" and fire at full ballistic, very easy to get targets in los.

 Tyran wrote:

MasterOfGaunts wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I just want to see the actual tau list he went against.
13 dark lances should kill about 3.6 Broadsides a turn, assuming he didn't go to ground and didn't have drones.

Wouldnt it be 7.2 Broadsides a turn?

4/6 (to hit) * 5/6 (to/wound) = 0.555

AP2 means no Armor Safe and S8 vs T4 is a IK.

Therefore 0.555 * 13 = 7,215 dead broadsides per turn...

Cover?

Cover will decrease the number. But if they get catched in the open it will be 7.2...

You can't really assume no cover. There is no way that someone would really deploy Broadsides against a S9 AP2 heavy army in the open.

With a 6+ go to ground in the open it reduces it to 6 broadsides.
5+: 4.8
4+: 3.6
3+ (Going to ground in area terrain or in ruins): 2.4

Never assume someone would rather pick up a model instead of trying to save for the cost of having to snap fire.

Even one Broadside snap firing gets 4 shots, 1.22 hits, 0.4 chance to pen. Not bad really. There is no reason to not go to ground.

This has provided me with a lot of "interesting" comments to read.
To avoid digression and name calling the only thing that lists strikes me as is as a very competitive (not the ability but the intent) list. It was obviously designed as a means to min/max against all comers. In a competitive game (ie both players know what they are getting into) that is fair game but in a "fun" setting that would be a list I could understand people getting upset with. I have faced my fair share of eldar scum and can see how such a list possesses the potential to crush people. It also possesses the ability to get crushed by people.
Based on the aforementioned competitive vs fun game atmosphere it goes either way dependent upon the setting. Good luck and have fun man! But before you bring a spam list just make sure your opponent knows what they're getting into. I'm out.