It looks like GW is getting away from mentioning the word finecast and just using theterm resin models. Crap by any other name is still crap.

It's been all but removed from their site and stores. It hasn't been seen in the last two (or more) updates to my knowledge.

It certainly was a load of horse poopie when billed as a "cost savings" change that costed the consumer more.

The last few Finecast I saw were better than the first round.

I got my very first new-in-the-box Finecast models on Monday. They are so atrocious I don't think I'll ever give that particular fruit another bite...

I think it more than anything else has challenged the idea that GW makes the best miniatures in the world. Enough so that its actually broken through GWs little imaginary bubble and GW have had to take notice.

All Finecast taught me was that I should kit-bash my own Special Characters from the extra plastic bits.

 gnoise wrote:
All Finecast taught me was that I should kit-bash my own Special Characters from the extra plastic bits.

Ditto

I definitely think it has. After reading about Fine® Cast® , and all the problems it had (and is still having), I have never once bought it. With the wide range of plastics available, you can customize anything you want with no miscasts, no bendy, fuddly, or soft pieces of resin, no hassle, which probably looks 10x better and will be totally unique.

The first wave of Finecast was quite bad. But later waves they generally worked out the kinks. The few finecast models I have bought have had no more problems than my average FW models or even a majority of my metal models.

My biggest annoyance wih Finecast is how it spawned people using all sorts of "witty" variations to mock things, like Finecrap, Finecash, Failcast, ect. And now it has moved to the point of "Word® Word®" being used as if it is the height of satire, when it is just moronic.

I just like to leave it as quality™.
While I agree with failcast and such it just makes you sound childish. It's good to see they've toned down boasting about that crap really; that is precisely the reason why the talk back against it was so loud.

To be honest, the only gripe I've had with Finecast was with my Sslyth mercenary for my Dark Eldar. His sword snapped but was easily replaceable with one of the plastic ones. Other than that, Finecast has been pretty good for me

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
The first wave of Finecast was quite bad. But later waves they generally worked out the kinks. The few finecast models I have bought have had no more problems than my average FW models or even a majority of my metal models.

My biggest annoyance wih Finecast is how it spawned people using all sorts of "witty" variations to mock things, like Finecrap, Finecash, Failcast, ect. And now it has moved to the point of "Word® Word®" being used as if it is the height of satire, when it is just moronic.

No.

So how exactly is this the fault of the consumer? If GW had better QC from the get go then they would not be subject to this hilarious ridicule. Is it childish? Of course. But it's also incredibly fething funny.

The problem that I seem to be facing is that none of my finecast models are finely cast but rather crudely instead with a lot of edges and leftover plastic.

I've never had a perfect finecast model, I've avoided it as best as I can.

Of course when we learnt it only cost them 13 pence a gallon and the were using existing moulds it made us mad we were clearly getting ripped off.

The whole endeavour was fail of the purest kind.

The fact that GW have dropped the Finecast brand, and call it plain resin instead these days, tells the story.

Yeah, even though I had no problems with Finecast whatsoever, a lot of people did. I can understand dropping the name for its association with miscasts and low quality products. I'm ordering a resin bitz pack from GW this week, so I'll see for myself if the models listed as resin on their site are still Finecast or something closer to Forgeworld resin.

I personally felt the name just screamed of such...arrogance.

It was marketed as a cost-reduction plan, but then the cost of items didn't drop whatsoever...only the cost of production.

And then the necessary QA didn't materialize, so GW's return policy had to go into overdrive. I just don't like companies naming their products where the name literally says "THIS PRODUCT IS SUPERIOR." And, if they really have to name it as such, it better damn well be.

It just makes me feel like GW is effectively saying "this product says that it is the best right there in the name! Therefore you should understand that it is worth even more money."

While I love most GW miniatures, I feel Finecast was a very severe misstep, so bad in fact that even GW recognized the brand as tarnished.

I have mixed feelings on the material. Sometimes the casts are really nice and I enjoy working with the model, and other times it's a nightmare of air bubbles, weak or warped components, an hour of cleaning on the bigger kits between flash and mould lines. In any case, I prefer plastic and won't be upset when FC is completely a thing of the past beyond buying used and dealing with older minis.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
The first wave of Finecast was quite bad. But later waves they generally worked out the kinks. The few finecast models I have bought have had no more problems than my average FW models or even a majority of my metal models.

My biggest annoyance wih Finecast is how it spawned people using all sorts of "witty" variations to mock things, like Finecrap, Finecash, Failcast, ect. And now it has moved to the point of "Word® Word®" being used as if it is the height of satire, when it is just moronic.

Two weeks ago I bought a new Finecast and it still had problems.
You're annoyed with the consumers gripping. I get that. But you have to understand that from their point of view, their gripes are more than justified. GW said finecast was going to be cheaper, but prices went up, not down. So, gripe #1. GW said the model quality was going to go up. In terms of detail, yes. But then the models came with holes, broke easily and sometimes looked melted or covered in flash and other weird problems. Gripe #2.
If the customers are complaining, there's probably a reason and its the business that needs to address that. Having customers just stay quiet doesn't help anyone.
Also, the word@ Word@ and other satire is also justified because of GW's more than aggressive business practices. The company has become so irrational, aggresive and bullying that its turning many veteran and would-be player away from their games. That's also a problem that shouldn't be ignored because if you ignore the problem, it won't be fixed and will only get worse and worse.

You don't like people complaining then too bad because it's going to go on until GW does something to solve the problems...which it won't.

It should be noted that metal miniatures are usually preferred over resin (and resin over plastic) for collectors/painters as they hold up better. It's why a real miniatures only company, like Reaper, offers the same models both in their metal collector lines and bones gameplay line.

GW dropping their metals to switch to resin and then failing miserably at resin due to cost cutting measures (trying to use resin in molds meant for metal) and then having the audacity to bill it as a top shelf product is what drew the most ire. The Finecast miniatures cost more than similar static posed pewter miniatures from competing game and model lines that have higher detail. As an overall product, it's a failure.

Or, as simply put above:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The fact that GW have dropped the Finecast brand, and call it plain resin instead these days, tells the story.

PS: Necron Finecast models were/are the worst... those staves...

 gnoise wrote:
All Finecast taught me was that I should kit-bash my own Special Characters from the extra plastic bits.

Agreed.

 gnoise wrote:
All Finecast taught me was that I should kit-bash my own Special Characters from the extra plastic bits.

Yep. I love my kitbashed Vulkan, I was getting so sick of the spear breaking on my finecast model.

Definitely. Finecast was terrible when it first released, and it's not much better now. As a commission painter, I see a lot of finecast models. The vast majority are an utter embarrassment . I'd certainly never buy one for myself.

 DanielBeaver wrote:

 gnoise wrote:
All Finecast taught me was that I should kit-bash my own Special Characters from the extra plastic bits.

Yep. I love my kitbashed Vulkan, I was getting so sick of the spear breaking on my finecast model.

Haha, actual Vulkan was the first Finecast model I got and within an hour of painting him I accidentally broke the Salamander icon on his backpack. Fun times.

 TheKbob wrote:
PS: Necron Finecast models were/are the worst... those staves...

Amen.

Does not matter so much if brand improves quality in short term anyway, image damage takes longer to fix. Brand value once damaged is hard to mend.

I have assembled about 9 Finecast models. Never really had any major problems with quality. The amount of mold lines seemed rather excessive but other than that the detail was quite nice and any defects were very small or located in unnoticeable places. Certainly no worse than a FW model and significantly better than some non GW models I have assembled.

What I dislike about the material though is how insanely touchy and fragile it is. I assembled Shadowsun, and one of her legs broke off at the knee while I was sawing off that "ruined city" basing that is attached to the model, then when I started priming the model I dropped it on accident from a height of less than 3 inches and the communications antenna on her shoulder snapped off at the base.

I know resin isn't as strong as plastic, but with this stuff I spend all my prep and glue time in terror that if I breathed on it wrong my model would shatter into a million pieces.

For the Necron characters, I've had 3 staves break just by clipping off pieces on the other friggin end of the sprue...and its not like I was being rough with it.

The stuff is just cheap. When the model starts to get thicker, I suppose it starts becoming OK. But for any kind of thin stuff its absolute garbage.

I'd be happy with plastic everything...metal is good but makes way too many models way too top heavy.

Im glad Finecast is gone.

All of the finecast models I got had some issues with poor moulding. Also they tend to be too pourous and so the paint doesnt sit on them quite as well as the plastic models.

I really hope they re-do everything in plastic.

Recently bought some Tyranid in finecast and none of the 6 models had any issues so far, lots of moulding but that was easy to remove and left no marks.
So my experience has been good.
I have bought metal figures from GW that were poorer moulded anyway (parts missing etc).

Your in the lucky minority then, the majority got warped models with breaks and bubbles, my friend got a storm Lord with no ribcage just a bubble shaped hole, another got draigo with a shoulder so deformed the arm was unusable.

Fine cast was bad I'm glad it's dead.

Even in the most recent Finecast models, I have seen product on the shelf that I would not pay half the price for, it's so miscast.

Luckily to this day, I have never bought or owned a Finecast model. I would rather do the extra legwork to get the original pewter version, if at all possible. Hell, I'd even pay more for the pewter version/s on Ebay, if it came to that. Luckily, all the prices I have bought units (like 2nd edition Eldar Rangers) for gained me twice the figures for half the cost of Finecast, and I only do "Buy it Now"s rather than bother bidding on stuff.

Finecast? Yecch.

I'd agree that it's left a lasting bad impression. A really bad impression.

When you want to convert from metal, you convert to normal plastic. Reaper Miniatures did it with Bones, and that was a runaway success. Converting to an inferior product while raising the price is always a losing ploy, unless your customer base is people who hate money.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
The first wave of Finecast was quite bad. But later waves they generally worked out the kinks. The few finecast models I have bought have had no more problems than my average FW models or even a majority of my metal models.

My biggest annoyance wih Finecast is how it spawned people using all sorts of "witty" variations to mock things, like Finecrap, Finecash, Failcast, ect. And now it has moved to the point of "Word® Word®" being used as if it is the height of satire, when it is just moronic.

I have bought a few finecast kits since they came out, the most recent just a couple of weeks ago. They all had flaws. More flaws than I've had from the FW kits I've bought (which I gripe about too mind you, paying that much for a single infantry model makes me feel somewhat entitled to actually have some quality control).

Most recently I bought a Lord Commissar and part of the brim of his hat was missing, his nose had a bubble on it, and there was a piece of random resin attached to a point where I can't see how you could possibly remove it without damaging the underlying model.

There's a reason people call it failcast, because GW marketed it as something wonderful and it came out out as a giant steaming pile of failcrap. I'm sorry if people being unhappy annoys you.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Even in the most recent Finecast models, I have seen product on the shelf that I would not pay half the price for, it's so miscast.

Luckily to this day, I have never bought or owned a Finecast model. I would rather do the extra legwork to get the original pewter version, if at all possible. Hell, I'd even pay more for the pewter version/s on Ebay, if it came to that. Luckily, all the prices I have bought units (like 2nd edition Eldar Rangers) for gained me twice the figures for half the cost of Finecast, and I only do "Buy it Now"s rather than bother bidding on stuff.

I did this with swooping hawks. I have 2 Baharroths and 28 swooping hawks for less than $80 or so because of it. Most are 2E hawks, but they still look cool, IMO. And the price was right!

Bonus points: I nabbed a metal Eldrad for $5 because he was mislabeled.

Rangers. 20-something for 10 2nd edition models, or 30-something for 5 Finecast? Not a hard choice.

I have a hard time understanding why anyone would even try to defend any facet of Finecast. Sure some of the detail is better- unless the model was previously in metal! Then it's exactly the same but for a 25% markup.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
The few finecast models I have bought have had no more problems than my average FW models or even a majority of my metal models.

They have more problems because the material itself is a problem. Even when it is by some miracle a decent cast with no bubbles/missing parts/etc the material is inexcusably awful. It's way too soft, it crumbles if you look at it too hard, and it can't hold up its own weight without bending. You expect that kind of "quality" from a $1 walmart toy, not a $15 character model.

I loved finecast, I was disappointed every time it was free of defects and I didnt get a free model. So many planned conversions that died before its time.

But is finecast really gone or just resin with the consistancy of reinforced whipped cream without the finecast tag?

I think all they did was remove the Finecast label, but keep everything the same.

I hate to ask....but did we need YAFCT?
(yet another....).

After building dozens of finecast models, I can say that for bigger units it was ok (tau farsight, biovores, zonethropes, etc.).

However, I was not every happy with any models that had thin parts - like necron overlord scythes, space marine swords, etc.

Overall, I think they made a mistake with it, but hopefully if it goes away...so will the fine cast threads....
Maybe.

I am coming back to the hobby after a 6 yr hiatus, finecast wasn't around then. I've been looking for a spirit seer or 2 for my Ghost army and none of the stores have the model (including the GW store). I looked at some of the other models (thinking about Wood elf sorceress and Alarielle but then saw the pricetag for these tiny, flimsy models...$20 a piece, are you kidding me? I'm coming from FOW so I'm not new to high priced models but I've found some of the Gw kit pretty reasonable. But these...no way, and I'm reading that they have all these flaws too...no thanks. A disgrace from GWs perspective if you ask me...should be half the price at the most..
I have still to find 2 suitable models for my spiritseers.

I'm also coming in from a long break. When I left, finecast was just about to be released. At the time there was many problems with the metal models that were to be replaced (required pinning, paint chipped, different glue, top-heavy). What was the problem with finecast, and did it not solve any of the metal figure problems?

 Snuggles wrote:
What was the problem with finecast, and did it not solve any of the metal figure problems?

Two problems:

1) The material is terrible. It's way too soft and crumbly. The fine detail is easily damaged, small parts snap off if you look at them too hard, etc. Even a good cast is unlikely to be a good cast for very long unless you never take it out of the box.

2) The quality control is nonexistent. The question isn't whether your model will have casting flaws, because almost all of them do. The real question is how many replacements will you have to ask for before you accumulate enough decent parts that you can manage to create an entire model. Bubbles are extremely common, and often obliterate entire sections of detail. Parts are frequently missing, often because a large bubble allowed a whole section of the model to break off. Flash is everywhere, and when you remove it you'll probably damage the model (see problem #1).

In short, finecast is only adequate if you're the kind of person who just glues everything together as soon as you buy it and never bothers to paint anything. If you care about the quality of your models then don't even bother attempting to buy anything in finecast.

I have had fine cast I liked - Crusaders and Crow. I had Necros I hated. The Staves came bent and even when I ran them under hot water they broke off. They kept breaking even after painting and gluing --- every time I transported them. 1 has a 3rd party staff now and I have had no problems and 1 is in a box while I decide what to do with him.

I just received the replacement Lord Commissar model and it is miscast on the brim of his hat as well

e:ignore me

I'd like to parrot that fine cast is garbage.

Brittle parts where pieces break off if you try to clip them off as designed, or parts where the finest details are bubbly messes, requiring professional level sculpting skills to fix.

I'd also like to curse out the CEO and other assorted staff involved with the decisions behind it, its garbage, and the fact that you raised prices while selling garbage is atrocious, you should make a blanket apology.

I will won't curse here, I like this place but lets just say I've had fun on twitter.

How did GW allow itself to sell the stuff if it was so bad. Surely they would of had to paint and glue the models themselves and experienced first hand what it was like. Poor quality control?

 Smirrors wrote:
How did GW allow itself to sell the stuff if it was so bad. Surely they would of had to paint and glue the models themselves and experienced first hand what it was like. Poor quality control?

Because they have complete and utter contempt for their customer base?

In all seriousness what I heard was it was a rush job. Allegedly there was a meeting amongst the higher-ups and some of the people running the casting facilities were there. They were asked "Can we roll out Finecast in 2-3 months time?" and some idiot piped up "Sure thing boss!". Now, with GW, being far too much of an entity like the Imperium than it likes to admit; no-one piped up to say it simply could not be done in that time as more testing was needed.

That's what myself and a couple of other have heard talking with some FLGS owners.

On a side note, AFAIK the masters that the studio will paint (and as has always been the case, even with metals) are proper resin, not whatever hybrid mix FC was.

 gnoise wrote:
All Finecast taught me was that I should kit-bash my own Special Characters from the extra plastic bits.

QFT, I've never found a cast of a character I liked. Always made them myself.

 Smirrors wrote:
How did GW allow itself to sell the stuff if it was so bad. Surely they would of had to paint and glue the models themselves and experienced first hand what it was like. Poor quality control?

Someone in the studio had to notice because at least a few painted models made it to the webstore pics with viable holes.

13 pence a gallon that's all gw cared about, cast for next to nothing and sell with a massive profit margin, and if it's a miscast it only costs them another 13p.

Another sign gw don't give two craps about the customer.

 Icculus wrote:
Im glad Finecast is gone.

Is it though? Or did they just scrap the name?

Scipio Africanus wrote:

 gnoise wrote:
All Finecast taught me was that I should kit-bash my own Special Characters from the extra plastic bits.

QFT, I've never found a cast of a character I liked. Always made them myself.

Eh, 99% of plastic converted characters look like... plastic converted characters. There are some awesome converters out there, but most metal/resin characters have a lot more fine detail that I have no where near the capacity to recreate myself.

There's a reason I bought the Lord Commissar, it looks many times better than I could recreate. Same with the Njal in Terminator armour model, no way I could recreate something half as good as that (luckily I got a metal one). Same with a dozen others I've bought. I only bother making my own when the GW alternative genuinely has a terrible aesthetic.

hobojebus wrote:13 pence a gallon that's all gw cared about, cast for next to nothing and sell with a massive profit margin, and if it's a miscast it only costs them another 13p.

Another sign gw don't give two craps about the customer.

Except it does cost them more than that, perhaps they don't realise, but it does, both in manpower and lost sales.

Of course you have to pay staff to do returns and customer service, postage costs etc, but given the cost of failcast resin compared to lead and pewter they have a huge profit margin on each mini sold.

If it had lowered prices people might of forgiven the odd imperfection, but raising prices plus the poor quality ensured it's demise.

Relapse wrote:
It looks like GW is getting away from mentioning the word finecast and just using theterm resin models. Crap by any other name is still crap.

One of my funniest memories of it is a guy accidentally using the term "Failcast" by reflex when talking to a GW store manager (then apologizing because he's a nice guy and didn't want hurt feelings).

Given that I've only got two FC models, and both ended up with small bits breaking in the process of trying to assemble and clean them (one of them I have yet to see an unbroken copy of the model), I'm pretty shy on buying any more of the stuff, even though a lot of models aren't available any other way (i.e. Eldar Harlequins, a lot of Dark Eldar stuff, any Ork characters currently, etc.).

Finecast whining threads went out of vogue several years ago.

Get your whineometers updated to a current topic.

Guess I'm lucky with only having 2 problems with Finecast.

 dementedwombat wrote:

I know resin isn't as strong as plastic, but with this stuff I spend all my prep and glue time in terror that if I breathed on it wrong my model would shatter into a million pieces.

It's not resin itself, it's GW's crappy resin. The resin DZC models I've been painting from Hawk Wargames are incredibly strong and the detail is insane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtZvZaljlxE

 Smirrors wrote:
How did GW allow itself to sell the stuff if it was so bad. Surely they would of had to paint and glue the models themselves and experienced first hand what it was like. Poor quality control?

To be cynical, GW want to concentrate on selling cheap gak at high prices to n00bs who have no idea what they deserve from a wargame or a model, so GW are busy getting rid of all veteran gamers who recognised Finecast for the crap it is.

Which is funny to me because I refuse to trade for metal models now that finecast is out.

So much easier to glue, so much easier to work with. Not as many problems with things being top heavy. Good replacement policy.

I have had nothing but positive experiences overall with finecast.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Finecast whining threads went out of vogue several years ago.

Get your whineometers updated to a current topic.

*looks at 2nd fethed up Lord Commissar model he just received after the first one was also fethed up*
*looks at thread*

Umm, nah, it's still in vogue until GW fix it.

Relapse wrote:
It looks like GW is getting away from mentioning the word finecast and just using theterm resin models. Crap by any other name is still crap.

I never really quit the H-H-Hobby per se; as I still buy models now and then. That being said Finecast put a definite and noticeable dent in my enjoyment of it and cracked the then-favorable prism I viewed GWS through.

I bought a few of the Necrons HQs, and got the rest for Christmas the year they came out. Each and every single one had major, major issues. I had to send back about half of them, and the replacements also had major, major issues - you know, there is probably no reason to recount my experiences because from what I have read, the vast majority of people who have bought Finecast models and posted on Dakka about it reported similar experiences.

A common argument was, well, they had a learning curve, but in my experience that was just not true, my friends have bought finecast recently and they still had the same fething problems as day one. The other argument was usually the whiners on dakka were just a really vocal minority of internet jerks. I think the fact they're wholly abandoning the finest miniatures in the world just what, 2 and a half years later? kinda answers that one.

The whole thing really felt like a big middle finger from them. Yeah, metal's expensive so lets go to something cheaper, but we're also going to jack the price up of this stuff, because feth you, that's why. Side note, it's also impossible to strip because its so delicate, so hey, goodbye secondary market! All huge perks for GWS, but really no benefit at all for gamers. I mean, I kind of knew GWS sucked as a company before this debacle but that really, really opened my eyes.

Have to say that I've never bought any finecast. Both pricing and not really being tempted by anything come into it, but the bad press is enough to keep me away.

I am rather tempted by the new Gundabad Orcs, so maybe but I'm only gonna buy it in shop and check the blister first.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Have to say that I've never bought any finecast. Both pricing and not really being tempted by anything come into it, but the bad press is enough to keep me away.

I am rather tempted by the new Gundabad Orcs, so maybe but I'm only gonna buy it in shop and check the blister first.

It can be really hard to tell until you actually open the blister. One of the first FC models I bought I flipped through all the blisters on the shelf trying to find one without flaws, almost all of them had bad flaws, I picked one that I couldn't see any flaws. Got it home, opened it up and started assembling it and noticed several bubbles in places that required a decent amount of sculpting ability to fix.

So if you buy it from a store, I recommend opening it there and then and going over it carefully before you drive home and find the flaws.

I hasten to add that part of the reason I feel so strongly about Finecast is that the nearest Games Workshop is 2.5 hours away, so everyting I got came via mail order. If I could open them in the store, and examine them before buying them - well, they'll still suck and it would still be a black eye for the brand, but I bet I personally would not be as irate as I am.

The one (and only) Finecast model I have is my Tau Commander XV-8...and there's several pinholes and at least two other places where the resin wasn't casted very well. Definitely lived up to the reputation

Glad to hear GW is stepping away from it.

The new Wood Elf pre-orders just went up and the recast Shadowdancer is listed as Finecast instead of resin. They go through the effort of changing the description of the old stuff and then this.

My opinion?

The brand slogan should always have been "Finecast: Because feth you."

I've never had a good experience with finecast and I will continue to proxy Venomthropes and Zoanthropes until they are available in plastic, even if I'm proxying them until the end of time.

 Leth wrote:
Which is funny to me because I refuse to trade for metal models now that finecast is out.

So much easier to glue, so much easier to work with. Not as many problems with things being top heavy. Good replacement policy.

I have had nothing but positive experiences overall with finecast.

I rather agree with you. not much experience with metal (got into the hobby after most parts went to plastic) but what metal I have used were universally massive pains in the rear end. The old school Broadsides were impossible... That said, the finecast stuff is so insanely brittle that it's not much more fun to work with either if you ask me. I guess it's just a choice between two evils until we can get everything in plastic.

For what it's worth though I'd take finecast over metal. At least I can clean the mold lines off without heavy machinery.

i wonder how they managed to get finecast wrong so much. i've only ever bought one and it was perfect but clearly that isn't the case for everyone.

is it cheap materials and cost-cutting, or the substance itself- could resin miniatures be any good? forgeworld use resin don't they and i've never heard any complaints about their stuff. presume other companies use resin too.

 daddyorchips wrote:
i wonder how they managed to get finecast wrong so much. i've only ever bought one and it was perfect but clearly that isn't the case for everyone.

is it cheap materials and cost-cutting, or the substance itself- could resin miniatures be any good? forgeworld use resin don't they and i've never heard any complaints about their stuff. presume other companies use resin too.

I have several Forgeworld models, and haven't had a single problem. I love my FW Remoras and Broadsides/Crisis Suits so much...

 dementedwombat wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Which is funny to me because I refuse to trade for metal models now that finecast is out.

So much easier to glue, so much easier to work with. Not as many problems with things being top heavy. Good replacement policy.

I have had nothing but positive experiences overall with finecast.

I rather agree with you. not much experience with metal (got into the hobby after most parts went to plastic) but what metal I have used were universally massive pains in the rear end. The old school Broadsides were impossible... That said, the finecast stuff is so insanely brittle that it's not much more fun to work with either if you ask me. I guess it's just a choice between two evils until we can get everything in plastic.

For what it's worth though I'd take finecast over metal. At least I can clean the mold lines off without heavy machinery.

I liked the old-school XV88s, sure your railguns were never perfectly straight and often the bit that was meant to go over the thrusters of the XV8 body didn't fit but that was all easily fixed. Just cut off your thrusters and bend the railguns into shape. Also those kits would net you some more spare Crisis Suit weapons, which was nice.

Don't like the style of the new Broadsides, so I carry on using my old ones (when I actually use them). Have converted some to Missilesides using spare Missile Pods from Crisis kits. The new kit is too big and too clunky for my taste (and There's no way a railgun that size should be less powerful than a lascannon). Same reason I don't like and therefore don't use the Riptide, I guess.

Finally, a metal file is hardly heavy machinery.

 daddyorchips wrote:
i wonder how they managed to get finecast wrong so much. i've only ever bought one and it was perfect but clearly that isn't the case for everyone.

is it cheap materials and cost-cutting, or the substance itself- could resin miniatures be any good? forgeworld use resin don't they and i've never heard any complaints about their stuff. presume other companies use resin too.

It's all in the resin mix and casting process. Finecast is the only material that I (personally) have seen bubbles in. I'm a big fan of resin.

I've had flaws in Forgeworld and Chapterhouse items I've received, but have been able to remedy them with some effort. You can find complaints on some of the larger FW kits. It seems they have a better QC process but it also could be the lower amount of customers. Finecast was affordable and easily available to the masses.

 daddyorchips wrote:
i wonder how they managed to get finecast wrong so much.

Cost cutting, and knowing that the 12 year old buying an AWESOME SPACE MARINE HERO MODEL probably doesn't care about casting problems. Just like all of their other models they're going to carelessly tear it off the sprue, glue it together (in a rough approximation of how it's supposed to be assembled) with a giant puddle of glue, and maybe blob on a nice thick layer of paint so that you can't see any of the missing details anyway. And, like their other models, it's going to be thrown roughly in a spare cardboard box along with the rest of their army, so stuff is going to break off no matter what material the model is made out of. A casting flaw that snaps a sword in half is no worse than rough treatment that snaps a plastic sword in half.

Now, obviously people with higher standards aren't willing to put up with this, and GW probably lost a lot of their cost savings in having to ship out replacement model after replacement model and lost sales from people who refuse to buy finecast again. But you have to remember that people like us are a small minority of GW's customers, and not their primary target market.

could resin miniatures be any good? forgeworld use resin don't they and i've never heard any complaints about their stuff. presume other companies use resin too.

Yeah, resin itself is a great material. You can get amazing detail that you can't do in injection-molded plastic for technical reasons, and it's much easier to work with than metal. If GW had done the metal to resin conversion right then we'd all be praising the decision because it would have been a far superior product. The problem isn't with resin, it's that finecast isn't real resin. It's a low-quality material used with a questionable casting process and nonexistent quality control.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 dementedwombat wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Which is funny to me because I refuse to trade for metal models now that finecast is out.

So much easier to glue, so much easier to work with. Not as many problems with things being top heavy. Good replacement policy.

I have had nothing but positive experiences overall with finecast.

I rather agree with you. not much experience with metal (got into the hobby after most parts went to plastic) but what metal I have used were universally massive pains in the rear end. The old school Broadsides were impossible... That said, the finecast stuff is so insanely brittle that it's not much more fun to work with either if you ask me. I guess it's just a choice between two evils until we can get everything in plastic.

For what it's worth though I'd take finecast over metal. At least I can clean the mold lines off without heavy machinery.

I liked the old-school XV88s, sure your railguns were never perfectly straight and often the bit that was meant to go over the thrusters of the XV8 body didn't fit but that was all easily fixed. Just cut off your thrusters and bend the railguns into shape. Also those kits would net you some more spare Crisis Suit weapons, which was nice.

Don't like the style of the new Broadsides, so I carry on using my old ones (when I actually use them). Have converted some to Missilesides using spare Missile Pods from Crisis kits. The new kit is too big and too clunky for my taste (and There's no way a railgun that size should be less powerful than a lascannon). Same reason I don't like and therefore don't use the Riptide, I guess.

Finally, a metal file is hardly heavy machinery.

I could never make them balance right and they constantly broke off at the ankles (even worse than regular crisis suits in that regard). I have also fallen away from broadsides lately ever since my XV9s came in. Shadowsun jumping around with 3 XV9s is just so much more fun to play even if they're not necessarily more effective.

I guess it has been a very long time since I ever assembled a metal model (it was a vespid.) so my skills as a hobbyest have most likely matured a lot. I just have very unplesant memories of every single thin piece having a little blob of metal on the end of it that I somehow had to remove. I'm guessing a file would be easier that trying to do it with a hobby knife like I did back then, but I don't know if it would have been any more pleasant.

 Peregrine wrote:
A casting flaw that snaps a sword in half is no worse than rough treatment that snaps a plastic sword in half.

Now, obviously people with higher standards aren't willing to put up with this, and GW probably lost a lot of their cost savings in having to ship out replacement model after replacement model and lost sales from people who refuse to buy finecast again. But you have to remember that people like us are a small minority of GW's customers, and not their primary target market.

Good point. Dealing with Finecast can be no different than dealing with plastic flaws (mold lines, flash, clipping damage). I find that dealing with a small amount of Finecast repair to be easier than dealing with plastic cleanup. However, I don't think the Finecast models with a small amount of flaws is why we are having this discussion.

I have a feeling finecast either cures too fast or for some technical reason they can't get the bubbles out. I personally haven't used other resin that came on sprues like finecast, usually there's a clear injection point blob, finecast for some reason comes on sprues. Maybe they tried to do injection casts with resin and failed but pursued it anyway. If you look at how the sprues are laid out, you can see the cast as a whole is far more complicated of a design than you see of FW stuff.

Calling Finecast resin is an absolute insult to the quality of resin. Sure, it's all actually resin when you go by the definition, but when I use that term, I am talking of awesome things. Like for instance the Flesh Golem I got for Confrontation: Age of Ragnorok. I can't even find a good pic that adequately shows off the souls flowing across the detail on it's back.

reps0l wrote:
Good point. Dealing with Finecast can be no different than dealing with plastic flaws (mold lines, flash, clipping damage).

No, that's not at all what I meant. Finecast's flaws are much worse than plastic, my point is that for many of GW's customers finecast's flaws don't matter. They treat their models poorly and don't care if they're damaged, so there's no real difference between a finecast model that's broken because of casting flaws and a plastic model that's broken because of carelessly throwing it in a box. There's no "dealing with it" because that kind of person just uses the broken model until they get tired of the game and throw the whole pile of stuff in the garbage.

I like that sculpt very much, but I'm guessing that if it was labeled Finecast and someone ended up with it you'd see a picture something like the below along with complaints that the model was "full of air bubbles" and "unusable". I think some people are overly critical of Finecast because of the bad reputation it has (not saying there may not be serious errors, but a lot of the pictures I've seen blow things way out of proportion in my opinion.)

My experience with finecast is that it's more annoying to assemble, bubbles and pin holes here and there (it's on orks so it's passable), the thin poles will break easily (it's this wierd mix of brittle yet not rigid). I like the bulky parts of the model as they have nice detail but the sculpt seems designed for a different material (are these the same sculpts they made for the metal models?) and the thin parts just can't maintain the proper shape. Poles are warped and slightly wonky plus any load can break them.

For an expensive model (20 for a wierdboy and 20 for a warboss) I expect a more durable model that doesn't have warped poles and none of this bubble crap. The plastic fireblade I have looks great and is incredibly durable (I don't have to worry about it breaking if it tips over on the table or it gets picked up)

All the warped and bent poles is a giant "that's what she said" joke waiting to be made.

Vankraken wrote:
My experience with finecast is that it's more annoying to assemble, bubbles and pin holes here and there (it's on orks so it's passable), the thin poles will break easily (it's this wierd mix of brittle yet not rigid). I like the bulky parts of the model as they have nice detail but the sculpt seems designed for a different material (are these the same sculpts they made for the metal models?) and the thin parts just can't maintain the proper shape. Poles are warped and slightly wonky plus any load can break them.

For an expensive model (20 for a wierdboy and 20 for a warboss) I expect a more durable model that doesn't have warped poles and none of this bubble crap. The plastic fireblade I have looks great and is incredibly durable (I don't have to worry about it breaking if it tips over on the table or it gets picked up)

All the warped and bent poles is a giant "that's what she said" joke waiting to be made.

A lot of the models in finecast were originally metal, yes. They just switched materials without making new moulds. A lot of people at the time said the problems were due to this but then new models came out in finecast which had the same issues.

 dementedwombat wrote:
I like that sculpt very much, but I'm guessing that if it was labeled Finecast and someone ended up with it you'd see a picture something like the below along with complaints that the model was "full of air bubbles" and "unusable". I think some people are overly critical of Finecast because of the bad reputation it has (not saying there may not be serious errors, but a lot of the pictures I've seen blow things way out of proportion in my opinion.)

Spoiler:

Funny enough, checking on my model, the casting is such on that model that mine has the exact same pattern of "pits". from the pattern of pairs along the horns, to the single tiny one on the hammer face, once I correlated wich face of the hammer on my model was the same as the one in the pic. It's actually part of the detail and as such, speaks to the casting I think.

On the other hand........

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Funny enough, checking on my model, the casting is such on that model that mine has the exact same pattern of "pits". from the pattern of pairs along the horns, to the single tiny one on the hammer face, once I correlated wich face of the hammer on my model was the same as the one in the pic. It's actually part of the detail and as such, speaks to the casting I think.

Wow. I'm suitably impressed. To be honest I had a hard time figuring out which pock-marks were actually built into the model and which ones I should put circles around. I tired to go for the ones that most obviously looked like potential casting problems to me. I'm really surprised at the ones on the horns. I guess all I can say is crongradulations to you, you acquired one amazing model with awesome casting.

You're telling me. I honestly had thought you circled casting bubbles I missed when I posted the image, and had to check my model because it's been painted for about three years. I was kinda shocked when I matched them up.

 Peregrine wrote:
my point is that for many of GW's customers finecast's flaws don't matter.

Well looks like I'm part of that group as long as it is not a catastrophic flaw.

 dementedwombat wrote:
I like that sculpt very much, but I'm guessing that if it was labeled Finecast and someone ended up with it you'd see a picture something like the below along with complaints that the model was "full of air bubbles" and "unusable". I think some people are overly critical of Finecast because of the bad reputation it has (not saying there may not be serious errors, but a lot of the pictures I've seen blow things way out of proportion in my opinion.)

I don't think this is really true. Even under the assumption that those were in fact casting flaws and not just part of the sculpt they're all tiny pinhole bubbles that don't damage any of the detail or weaken the structure of the model. It might be a bit annoying to clean up, but you can fix that kind of flaw easily and without re-sculpting the model. Finecast, on the other hand, tends to have larger bubbles that obliterate detail and cause thinner parts to break off. If it's practical to fix it at all you're going to have to do non-trivial amounts of sculpting work to rebuild the damaged sections.

 daddyorchips wrote:
i wonder how they managed to get finecast wrong so much. i've only ever bought one and it was perfect but clearly that isn't the case for everyone.

is it cheap materials and cost-cutting, or the substance itself- could resin miniatures be any good? forgeworld use resin don't they and i've never heard any complaints about their stuff. presume other companies use resin too.

Done right, resin models can be absolutely stunning. While I've never personally had any problems with any FC model I've ever bought, I think I've bought maybe a dozen total... and notice that I seem to be in the serious minority of people who've just been that damn lucky. Though, I've also only ever bought them online from GW directly, so maybe they have some QA people at order fulfillment that check over the models before packaging them? No idea, just know that I have never had any problems with FC, but I also don't believe my experience to be common.

Finecast failed because Games Workshop didn't care. They just wanted to A) Save money and B) Rush out products. If the quality of their products suffer, who cares? Most of their customers either don't care or don't complain. They'll just keep on buying their crap just because it has Games workshop on it.

It boggles my mind that people have had models that are "fine". I can go through the shelves of my local GW and find blister after blister with flaws visible through the blister and the ones that don't, I'm 95% sure you could open and find flaws that you just couldn't see through the plastic. That you could get a dozen models and not have one with huge glaring flaws is astonishing.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Calling Finecast resin is an absolute insult to the quality of resin. Sure, it's all actually resin when you go by the definition, but when I use that term, I am talking of awesome things. Like for instance the Flesh Golem I got for Confrontation: Age of Ragnorok. I can't even find a good pic that adequately shows off the souls flowing across the detail on it's back.

I have a friend that loves Epic, but can't find the models to purchase anymore, no matter how hard he looks. He happens to be a decent sculpter and knows other sculpters, so he created armies for his own use in Epic and cast them in resin himself.
His Adeptus Mechanicas army is flawless, right down to the human sized figures, and those that have played Epic know how small those figures can be.
He uses a far better quality resin then GW, for openers, and I would dare say that his process is far more efficient.

Relapse wrote:
He uses a far better quality resin then GW, for openers, and I would dare say that his process is far more efficient.

Of course - because he gives a gak.

I've ordered tons of miniatures from Maxmini, Kromlech, Puppetswar, Mad Robot, Micro Art Studio, Secret Weapon, and even Jacqueline's micro-batch Space Corsair miniatures. None have ever had the problems Finecast or Forge World had, save for a few Armorcast bits.

I find it curious that way back in the beginning, the guys pushing Finecast at GW- who had to know everything both good and bad pertaining to using the material they are for Finecast- thought it could honestly compete quality-wise with all the other resin miniatures producers out there. Even companies that are a tiny percentage the size and power of GW are putting out better quality stuff, and usually for more competitive prices, too.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

A lot of the models in finecast were originally metal, yes. They just switched materials without making new moulds. A lot of people at the time said the problems were due to this but then new models came out in finecast which had the same issues.

AIUI, Finecast requires new moulds, done using old master models.

I don't have any FC models, but not because I've tried to avoid them, I just haven't happened to need any model which has been available in FC (yet). OTOH, many of the metal models were so horrible to work with that I'd happily take them in Finecast: BFG capital ships, aforementioned original Broadsides, Jump Pack chaplain which just keeps tipping over etc.

I present you exhibit A)..... The warboss with attack squig. WHO THE FETH in the nine hells has mounted the boss poll on this model!

Its a complete joke. If some one breaths on the model it snaps off. Well worth the money GW.... thank you.

Rune priest - axe missing the top portion and is completely hallowed out.

Wolf lord on thunder wolf mount - Boot completely missing replaced with bubble. Back pack missing the bottom section.

Warboss - see above

Wolfpriest - good model

Ragnar - good model.

I own 5 crapcast models and 3 of them showed up with extreme and in some cases multiple defects.

On the Bright side GW sent out replacement parts no real questions asked. So good job to those guys!

 Ouze wrote:

Relapse wrote:
He uses a far better quality resin then GW, for openers, and I would dare say that his process is far more efficient.

Of course - because he gives a gak.

I've ordered tons of miniatures from Maxmini, Kromlech, Puppetswar, Mad Robot, Micro Art Studio, Secret Weapon, and even Jacqueline's micro-batch Space Corsair miniatures. None have ever had the problems Finecast or Forge World had, save for a few Armorcast bits.

He does indeed care. That and the other armies he sculpts and casts are definite labors of love that put shame all over the GW resins. More so because he does them in his living room.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I find it curious that way back in the beginning, the guys pushing Finecast at GW- who had to know everything both good and bad pertaining to using the material they are for Finecast- thought it could honestly compete quality-wise with all the other resin miniatures producers out there. Even companies that are a tiny percentage the size and power of GW are putting out better quality stuff, and usually for more competitive prices, too.

Again, they're not trying to compete on quality. Finecast's goal isn't producing the best possible models, it's maximizing the profit margin on selling $15 space marine characters to 12 year olds who don't care if their model is garbage because they're going to treat it like garbage anyway.

Most of my Finecast experience has been models in terminator armor. Fat, bulky models are usually safe.

Spindly models are just a non-starter. My Changling's staff broke as I was getting it off the sprue. I just cut it up and used brass rod instead. I have a Finecast Shadowseer I won in a raffle... haven't popped her open yet, but afraid to...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:
... it's maximizing the profit margin on selling $15 $19~$25 space marine characters..

Remember, prices went up. You could get the same character in metal, a more costly and durable material, for $15.

 TheKbob wrote:
Most of my Finecast experience has been models in terminator armor. Fat, bulky models are usually safe.

Spindly models are just a non-starter. My Changling's staff broke as I was getting it off the sprue. I just cut it up and used brass rod instead. I have a Finecast Shadowseer I won in a raffle... haven't popped her open yet, but afraid to...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:
... it's maximizing the profit margin on selling $15 $19~$25 space marine characters..

Remember, prices went up. You could get the same character in metal, a more costly and durable material, for $15.

That's the crazy thing about the stuff my bud sculpts and casts. They are tiny in many cases, but equal in strength to their Epic equivelents that were made in plastic. None of this reinforced whipped cream material for him!

Relapse wrote:
That's the crazy thing about the stuff my bud sculpts and casts. They are tiny in many cases, but equal in strength to their Epic equivelents that were made in plastic. None of this reinforced whipped cream material for him!

Nah, nothing crazy about it, just using high-quality resin instead of the cheapest garbage you can find. Resin done right is a great material that beats plastic in everything but cost of mass production.

the material sucks, the molds suck and GW's idiotic designs such as this really dont help anything

 Peregrine wrote:

Relapse wrote:
That's the crazy thing about the stuff my bud sculpts and casts. They are tiny in many cases, but equal in strength to their Epic equivelents that were made in plastic. None of this reinforced whipped cream material for him!

Nah, nothing crazy about it, just using high-quality resin instead of the cheapest garbage you can find. Resin done right is a great material that beats plastic in everything but cost of mass production.

I will agree with you on that.

The one thing I can say about finecast is that it doesn't weigh much. Try making the Dynamic Entry meme model with a metal Farsight

OT edit. I had no idea the meme came from Naruto... (My favorite show)

I impulse bought a finecast Venomthrope this weekend.

One big problem that made me think of this thread...the blister came with 2 left sides instead of a left side and a right side. I assume someone out there got a pack with 2 right sides.

I have to say, GW Customer Service agreed to send me a replacement with absolutely no hassle whatsoever.

 Peregrine wrote:

Relapse wrote:
That's the crazy thing about the stuff my bud sculpts and casts. They are tiny in many cases, but equal in strength to their Epic equivelents that were made in plastic. None of this reinforced whipped cream material for him!

Nah, nothing crazy about it, just using high-quality resin instead of the cheapest garbage you can find. Resin done right is a great material that beats plastic in everything but cost of mass production.

Also in having straight parts. One thing I hate about resin is wonky gun barrels, spears, swords, etc. My DKOK Grenadier chainsword is damned near impossible to get straight. Often even if you do get them straight, they go wonky again after a while. Things that are obviously supposed to be straight but aren't is one thing I'm OCD about, you can see even on the FW site many of the studio painted models have barrels that aren't perfectly straight or drooping. Granted that can happen with plastic, but it's far less common and while it's harder to fix if it is bent, the fix is usually pretty permanent.