Jihadin wrote:Thinking LoTR combat?

Yeah...Think I'll pass on riding an elephant into combat, a horse I can ride...an elephant...nope no thanks.
...And I'd have to pass on elaborate " Tigers in the walls" traps as well....tripwires and explosives can do the same job without having to be fed and cared for...and do it much better.

Thinking some severe charlie horses after riding all day.

As for feeding the elephant thats more then a one person job..we have to gather fodder...granted..I'm now curious on how elephant meat taste on a grill

corpsesarefun wrote:I'm pretty attached to my guinea pigs too so I'd have to bring them, they don't really eat much.

Mine does, he's a little fat ass...but yeah, a few mustard greens and such and he's set.

So when do we make the fantasy airship and fly away?

[/reference-to-old-apocalypse-thread]

Explosive and tripwires be great....throw in lots of punji sticks to

Jihadin wrote:Thinking some severe charlie horses after riding all day.

As for feeding the elephant thats more then a one person job..we have to gather fodder...granted..I'm now curious on how elephant meat taste on a grill

...Hot sauce man...just cover it in hot sauce.
Now one thing we could look into raising that is pretty damn tasty is Emu.

Jihadin wrote:Thinking some severe charlie horses after riding all day.

As for feeding the elephant thats more then a one person job..we have to gather fodder...granted..I'm now curious on how elephant meat taste on a grill

true...the zoo would be great source of food....monkey cobab anyone?

So when do we make the fantasy airship and fly away?

When Kevin Costner sails into our Fortress

corpsesarefun wrote:So when do we make the fantasy airship and fly away?

[/reference-to-old-apocalypse-thread]

We don't...was a silly idea to begin with.

Are we talking Asian or African elephants?

AustonT wrote:Are we talking Asian or African elephants?

whatever the local zoo has....

AustonT wrote:Are we talking Asian or African elephants?

... I don't know tha- AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!

corpsesarefun wrote:

AustonT wrote:Are we talking Asian or African elephants?

... I don't know tha- AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!

...Do you know your favorite color perhaps?

Someone brings gerbil for pets...we really don't want a Richard Gere repeat type of issue....even another urban legend hinting it

FITZZ wrote:

corpsesarefun wrote:

AustonT wrote:Are we talking Asian or African elephants?

... I don't know tha- AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!

...Do you know your favorite color perhaps?

grey,no siILLLV-AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Elephants are better than oxen for farming purposes. They can haul more, are smarter, and useful for more than just that. And apparently they have a bit of a gamey taste, like buffalo.
Plus we can give the kids rides, and threaten people with having to clean up after it and fertilize the fields if they screw up. Also, we don't need a trumpet to call us to battle, just poke the elephant

CoI wrote:Elephants are better than oxen for farming purposes. They can haul more, are smarter, and useful for more than just that. And apparently they have a bit of a gamey taste, like buffalo.
Plus we can give the kids rides, and threaten people with having to clean up after it and fertilize the fields if they screw up. Also, we don't need a trumpet to call us to battle, just poke the elephant

They also eat WAY more than oxen and require much more cleaning and care.

corpsesarefun wrote:

CoI wrote:Elephants are better than oxen for farming purposes. They can haul more, are smarter, and useful for more than just that. And apparently they have a bit of a gamey taste, like buffalo.
Plus we can give the kids rides, and threaten people with having to clean up after it and fertilize the fields if they screw up. Also, we don't need a trumpet to call us to battle, just poke the elephant

They also eat WAY more than oxen and require much more cleaning and care.

yes,but you need less of them.

Think the elephant not going to forget who ever poked the living hell out of it to put out the trumpet call....the elephant will "accidently" step on your foot..If there's a chance we can feed and maintain the elephant in a WI winter outside a zoo environment then sure give it a shot....we have hunters to so we can have a good supply of jerky just in case

exactly. an elephant is a win win. either really helpful for chores,or really helpful at feeding people.

Jihadin wrote:Think the elephant not going to forget who ever poked the living hell out of it to put out the trumpet call....the elephant will "accidently" step on your foot..If there's a chance we can feed and maintain the elephant in a WI winter outside a zoo environment then sure give it a shot....we have hunters to so we can have a good supply of jerky just in case

Not exactly scientific but in a similar post Apoc situation the author said that elephants couldn't survive above the malaria line on the east coast, I doubt they'd make it in WI. Buffalo would probably be a better bet...but not nearly as cool

Buffalo may not be cool -now-, but if we crossbreed them with moose, we can have Buffaloose. And everyone wants one of those!

I think we should just clone a mammoth. That way it can survive the winters, and has huge tusks. No idea how trainable they are though. So... we need a geneticist. bah, ox or buffalo it is:( damn it, I wanted an effilump:(

... Well...I don't know about cloning mammoths...or Buffaloose ( though they sound fun)...
But I do know we could probably do with a whole load of these...of something like them.

http://www.solargeneratorreviews.org/content/%E2%80%8Bwhat-makes-my-solar-backup-better-than-other-backup-generators/

Solar generators aren't hard to maintain

They are also really easy to improvise if you want a water based one.

Plus, we get tax deductions by switching to solar energy

...wait a second...

mega_bassist wrote:Plus, we get tax deductions by switching to solar energy

...wait a second...

Good , we can use the extra cash to feed the damn elephant..

Elephants eat up 400 pounds of food a day.

That is over 70 TONS a year.

That far north you are lucky to get 6 tons of hay per acre per year (assuming 4-5 cuttings a year). That means you need to work 12 - 15 acres of hay per elephant. Cutting, raking, baling and storing hay is NOT light work, especially if you are doing it all by hand. Even with a tractor and the right tools it is not easy.

Add in the work to prep the fields and I submit elephants ain't gonna be worth it.

Jake

What if the elephant accidently drink our existence supply of hooch? I for one am not going to walk/stagger a pechadonwhatever back to its pen...A drunk buffaloose....thats on a loose...and we're trying to get back in a noose....

Ok, maybe a mini-elephant...

Jihadin wrote:What if the elephant accidently drink our existence supply of hooch? I for one am not going to walk/stagger a pechadonwhatever back to its pen...A drunk buffaloose....thats on a loose...and we're trying to get back in a noose....

Why would we put a buffaloose in a noose if the buffaloose was loose? Shouldn't we just shoot any loose buffaloose and eat them?

CptJake wrote:Elephants eat up 400 pounds of food a day.

That is over 70 TONS a year.

That far north you are lucky to get 6 tons of hay per acre per year (assuming 4-5 cuttings a year). That means you need to work 12 - 15 acres of hay per elephant. Cutting, raking, baling and storing hay is NOT light work, especially if you are doing it all by hand. Even with a tractor and the right tools it is not easy.

Add in the work to prep the fields and I submit elephants ain't gonna be worth it.

Jake

Exactly...more trouble than it's worth.


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metallifan wrote:

Jihadin wrote:What if the elephant accidently drink our existence supply of hooch? I for one am not going to walk/stagger a pechadonwhatever back to its pen...A drunk buffaloose....thats on a loose...and we're trying to get back in a noose....

Why would we put a buffaloose in a noose if the buffaloose was loose? Shouldn't we just shoot any loose buffaloose and eat them?

Dr. Seuss visits the apocalypse...

You know we're all going to go through phases of comedy. Dr. Suess, Sesame street...next be Transformer characters, then we're going to have someone talk like Scooby..I digress

Without overly complicating this with any kind of documentation it's difficult to crossbreed Buffalo with Cows, let alone Moose. Somethig about gestational temperature...vague memory. I'm pretty sure Moose are closer to equines than bovines.


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Or deer rather...

AustonT wrote:Without overly complicating this with any kind of documentation it's difficult to crossbreed Buffalo with Cows, let alone Moose. Somethig about gestational temperature...vague memory. I'm pretty sure Moose are closer to equines than bovines.

Nonsense. Enough beer and viagra and you can get anything to hump anything else. Give it a few months and you've got wierd hybrid drunken coitus freakbabies. How else do you think we got the Liger?

Wonder how long on a spit......what type of hot sauce we have again?

Jihadin wrote:Wonder how long on a spit......what type of hot sauce we have again?

The two basics

Jihadin wrote:Wonder how long on a spit......what type of hot sauce we have again?

Ligers can get pretty damn huge, 10 foot long IIRC?

Start the slow turn at 4 in the morning. On our half day off on Sun. Your choice of a half day. Sun morning or Sun Afternoon. Eventually we're going to have to go full seven as we expand our hold over the world when we implement the Muppets Action. Hopefully with full support of the council

We talked about elders...what about parentless kids?

Jihadin wrote:We talked about elders...what about parentless kids?

We give them all metal boomerangs. Duh...

CptJake wrote:

Jihadin wrote:We talked about elders...what about parentless kids?

We give them all metal boomerangs. Duh...

... Exactly, parentless children would be taken in, fed and cared for...they would be ,IMO, a great potential future resource.

Well....we do have a blacksmith that needs training...boomerangs seem a good way to improve our blacksmith skills...Figure we give the kids concentina wire gloves to catch their toys. We just make sure they pick them up and not left around. I don't feel like having a horizontal smile with my verticle smile when one leaves his/her 'rang in a seat

Bacon.

Pounds and pounds of bacon.

Prisoners attend the pig pen

If we're doing Fort Dakka, we're going to need a naval captian/aquatic expert/Semi-good Angler.

So can I join? I'll bring the rum!

Jihadin wrote:Prisoners attend the pig pen

And the cow pens. Cows and pigs have some of the most disguisting poop ever.

I'll work the horses, though. I love 'em. I was around them for over six years, and I can easily give beginer lessons to get people comfortable with them.

EDIT - spelling/grammar

Yes CHowder..though you have to do the Captain stance when called upon. Figure we can salvage a trawler to net in Lake Michigan. If we can't find a proper net...then I'm sure we have dynamites...if not...I'm sure I chemists can make something...four miles down the road from Ft Dakka

edit
Jake has horses and I'm sure we will acquire more horses in WI since there are lots of farms there. I'm sure all us will learn how to take care of our future transportation....a vehicle with no insurance...

Like, the Captain Morgan Stance?

Like, the Captain Morgan Stance

You betcha

Jihadin wrote:

Like, the Captain Morgan Stance

You betcha

Yep. That's what I thought.

Jihadin wrote:
Jake has horses and I'm sure we will acquire more horses in WI since there are lots of farms there. I'm sure all us will learn how to take care of our future transportation....a vehicle with no insurance...

Ah, missed that. Good. We'll rely on horses a lot...hopefully he's also a farrier and he could shod horses too, cause I can't do that! I've only learned a little

With Rum in the back ground...and if anyone burns the rum....... evil things will happen

Chowderhead wrote:Like, the Captain Morgan Stance?

Or Admiral Nelson - same taste, half the price!

The only good Rum. Try it if you get the chance.

I've seen it, but never tried it...

I'm more of a scotch/whisky person anywho

Think our taste buds will not care when we're in the situation we're in.....be a damn good trade though if needed.....for one bottle of goose we want 10 females, 2 cows, and a box of cigars

mega_bassist wrote:

Jihadin wrote:Prisoners attend the pig pen

And the cow pens. Cows and pigs have some of the most disguisting poop ever.

I'll work the horses, though. I love 'em. I was around them for over six years, and I can easily give beginer lessons to get people comfortable with them.

EDIT - spelling/grammar

mega_bassist wrote:

Jihadin wrote:
Jake has horses and I'm sure we will acquire more horses in WI since there are lots of farms there. I'm sure all us will learn how to take care of our future transportation....a vehicle with no insurance...

Ah, missed that. Good. We'll rely on horses a lot...hopefully he's also a farrier and he could shod horses too, cause I can't do that! I've only learned a little

I rather like they way cows smell, I roped for the family ranch and I guess you care less when your sweat and the horse sweat already make you nasty but sheep...intolerably smelly creatures. I vote prisoners attend the woolies and leave us the clean ones...but they can muck.
There's a lot more than making shoes to the actual shoeing of horses, a lot of it is actual foot care. You can even get away with not shoeing the horse or only shoeing in certain seasons. Slapping a shoe on a hoof is like the kid that works at foot locker, a ferrier is more like an orthopedic surgeon and running coach in one. If we are taking about Ft Dakka being in WI or MI you could probably shoe from fall to winter and go without in spring and summer, as long as the horses are kept pastured or worked in a round pen on the regular. One of my in laws neighbors has an especially good round pen that polishes his horses hooves so well they look new shod all the time and have big beautiful muscling.
Ps not picking on you mega, just noticed those were both your posts.

Always good when someone with experience is over watching the farm animals. Still say leg chains on the prisoners. I'm lazy....I rather not chase them down..rather shoot and walk up afterwards type of guy

AustonT wrote:Ps not picking on you mega, just noticed those were both your posts.

Ah, the farrier I've known worked the hooves and put on the shoes - feel free to correct me haha I'm still a horse noob

I just need a Fishing Gaffe to deal with the prisoners.

actually thinking pepper spray..........

Got any hemp seed? That's a must for any survival scenario.

There's more to it than meets the eye, all ferriers file the outer hoof, err most, to remove burrs increase strength and stave off cracking. But a good ferrier watches the horse first, it's gait and stride and then looks at the old shoe or hoof and tries to figure out what the horse needs. I'm by no means an expert but in a pinch I could shoe a horse, fix a cracked hoof or do a natural polish job, but for the more "artistic" parts of the ferriers trade I'd be useless.


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Joey wrote:Got any hemp seed? That's a must for any survival scenario.

I could give two gaks about smoking it. But as an agricultural product it's hard to beat cannibis, I am and always have been more than a little irked about how and why it became illegal, and how much money we spend to keep it that way. So that being said, if you look you can find hemp growing in a ditch in ever state, getting seeds won't be an issue the question is how do we use it.

AustonT wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

Joey wrote:Got any hemp seed? That's a must for any survival scenario.

I could give two gaks about smoking it. But as an agricultural product it's hard to beat cannibis, I am and always have been more than a little irked about how and why it became illegal, and how much money we spend to keep it that way. So that being said, if you look you can find hemp growing in a ditch in ever state, getting seeds won't be an issue the question is how do we use it.

Indeed cannabis would be an invaluable cash crop post-apocalypse. I'd get some silk worms, too. And a deposit of spices/herb seeds. Oh and lots and lots and LOTS of paper and pencils/pens for all that book-keeping. Ka-ching!

Hemp will provide you with paper and ink, guncotton, cordage, clothing, even biodiesel although I believe that it's not the best way to obtain biodiesel.

hemp is very useful, aye. But cannabis is a different plant, useful only for smoking.
Pretty much any plant that would be in high demand would be worth stockpiling, really.

I suppose hemp in one form or another will come in handy sooner or later but its hardly a "must need."

Not sure pepper spray would be highly available after the end of the world. I think it would be easier just to have some people guard them chain gang style; with a scatter gun and a bloodhound.

You don't particularly need someone highly skilled to do it either, all they have to do is stand around and keep track of how many prisoners they're responsible for, of course they also need to be able to hold a gun without blowing their own foot off but I'm sure everyone will learn how to do that eventually.

No hempsmoking during duty hours. off duty and no threats about then smoke yourself out but make sure you turn your weapons to the night shift leader.

Joey wrote:hemp is very useful, aye. But cannabis is a different plant, useful only for smoking.
Pretty much any plant that would be in high demand would be worth stockpiling, really.

generally speaking hemp is cannabis indica, and the plant grown for smoking is cannabis sativa. But "cannabis" refers to both.

WARORK93 wrote:I suppose hemp in one form or another will come in handy sooner or later but its hardly a "must need"

I have to disagree. Having a hardy plant capable of growing with no fertilizer in nearly any climate zone that can provide durable hard wearing clothing, rope, and explosives kind of tops out on my "must have" list.

AustonT wrote:

WARORK93 wrote:I suppose hemp in one form or another will come in handy sooner or later but its hardly a "must need"

I have to disagree. Having a hardy plant capable of growing with no fertilizer in nearly any climate zone that can provide durable hard wearing clothing, rope, and explosives kind of tops out on my "must have" list.

I'm sure that it has its applications, I just meant that there are other things that probably come before it on the survival list...

Also I admit that I thought you were talking about marijuana...

Be warned....better be use to eating bark chips when the munchies hit

WARORK93 wrote:

AustonT wrote:

WARORK93 wrote:I suppose hemp in one form or another will come in handy sooner or later but its hardly a "must need"

I have to disagree. Having a hardy plant capable of growing with no fertilizer in nearly any climate zone that can provide durable hard wearing clothing, rope, and explosives kind of tops out on my "must have" list.

I'm sure that it has its applications, I just meant that there are other things that probably come before it on the survival list...

Also I admit that I thought you were talking about marijuana...

Most of the stuff that might come before it I already have, outside of our fortress Dakka scenario I have a cabin wired for electricity and propane but built in an era before either, so I also have a wood range and whale oil lanterns (don't ask), a fresh water hand well, a horse, a tractor, a horse plough, non engineered seeds, a windmill ...you know...stuff. It's not actually a post Apoc setup...just stuff my family needed to survive once upon a time(the 90's). I call it a cabin, but it's the house I grew up in.
Hemp is a durable sustainable crop, not to be depended upon for food, but if you have a go to hell plan it should be included. You can plant it in rotation with corn, wheat, or cotton because it doesn't zap the soil like they do and you can till under what you dont need.

How good of a trade material will it be? Think every survivor group going to growing their own stock...well individuals will. I say we flood the "market" to corner the trade and go on from there

It's a diverse product, the trade value of raw hemp is pretty low, but trade products like burlap, canvas, twine,paper, ink and rope would command a middling value, finished products like tents, clothes, rucksacks, books, and footwear would command a high trade value

MOre then likely have plenty of idle times on our hands. Guess we all be practicing how to mae footwear and stuff first. I think my issu boots will last two years with hard use....6 pairs of boots. Think I throw in two pairs of issue boots to sweeten a pot for a trade to. Not including all the issue winter boots I have and never worned

We talking black or sand?

Sand but I do have over ten pairs of black boots. Five of those are Cocharan jump boots, two sets jungle, and three sets of the reg. boots.

Of the five sets of cocharans 2 sets are the field jump boots.

...you and I appear to be of a type. I also prefer Jumpers I've got 3 hard sides and 1 of the field type. I must be weird but until we went to ACUs I couldn't stand jungles, those leather soles and hard sides should last years even under yards use. If pressed you could make similar boots with two or three layers of waterproofed canvas and either leather or laminated canvas soles.


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My ACU issue though...I give em 3-4 months at the most

Velcro on them goes to Hell. With all the sweat and hard use tears in 5 months. I ripped out so many croutches its not funny

AustonT wrote:It's a diverse product, the trade value of raw hemp is pretty low, but trade products like burlap, canvas, twine,paper, ink and rope would command a middling value, finished products like tents, clothes, rucksacks, books, and footwear would command a high trade value

Depends how much space we have. I assume this is in America where everyone has dozens of acres of land to do with what they will. If it's Europe then yeah, it's pointless.

Jihadin wrote:Be warned....better be use to eating bark chips when the munchies hit

Only if you're a teenager on your friend's couch. When you're older it'd probably be of benefit. If you were standing watch while you were high you'd notice everything. I startle myself at the sound of the fabric in my clothes moving when I'm high. It'd definately be easier to spot someone sneaking up

WARORK93 wrote:

AustonT wrote:

WARORK93 wrote:I suppose hemp in one form or another will come in handy sooner or later but its hardly a "must need"

I have to disagree. Having a hardy plant capable of growing with no fertilizer in nearly any climate zone that can provide durable hard wearing clothing, rope, and explosives kind of tops out on my "must have" list.

I'm sure that it has its applications, I just meant that there are other things that probably come before it on the survival list...

Also I admit that I thought you were talking about marijuana...

I was. Then someone mentioned actual hemp and I pretended to be talking about this. They'd both be lucrative crops in a survival situation, though. Everyone loves getting high, and everyone loves having paper/clothes/rope. Especially useful if we were near the sea (part of the reason the Netherlands is so big on dope is because their large navy needed lots of rope, i.e. hemp)

TBH, getting high isn't really on my to do list. What's the deal on personal possessions then? Communal huts kind of deal for accomodation?

You smoke it if you want. Off duty and at a time with no clear threat near. I highly doubt yu want to smoke dope while on duty with a loaded weapon. If the weapon goes off the perception of not having a clear head is there

Those stigmas are for people that smoke once in a blue moon, real smokers would have no problems smoking on the job...but i personally would not chief before any work hours . Also say the base was in a hazy cloud the second an alarm was tripped the adrenaline flowing would snap all but the most pie eyed people out of it.

I will say this though, in a stressful and bleak situation pot will be very useful in maintaining a somewhat healthy morale.

We've a couple of brits churning out booze from the stills to

Jihadin wrote:You smoke it if you want. Off duty and at a time with no clear threat near. I highly doubt yu want to smoke dope while on duty with a loaded weapon. If the weapon goes off the perception of not having a clear head is there

Fine by me as long as there's also a rule of no drinking on duty whatsoever. Alcohol is a far more dangerous substance than cannabis in all ways.
What's the policy on smoking cigarettes on duty? I'd assume it'd usually be okay as long as you weren't supposed to be concealed or under cover etc.


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Jihadin wrote:We've a couple of brits churning out booze from the stills to

I don't want to drink any dangerous gak. We'll need to figure out how to produce booze safely, don't want half the men going blind just before an attack.
Also, alcohol, and all luxury goods, should be strictly rationed.
The officers who dole it out should drink very little, if at all, in order to maintain respect and prevent accusations of hoarding.
Enough alcohol for a cummunal celebration once a week, yes. But we don't want cheep booze flooding around and turning the men to drink.

Not to you Joey

Didn't we cover this a few page back?

I don't drink, i'll be your superiors (yes, all of them).

what?

I'm pretty sure everyone will keep others in check. Safety a huge issue so that'll be a huge driving issue to ensure everyone doesn't screw the Hell up

No we need a class system. The terminology is irrelevant so i'll stick to military metaphors-
officers-lieutenant (pronounced leftenant, btw), captains, majors etc
troopers-sargents, who get more resources than the men think, and are essentially bribed into being on our (the officers) side, then privates and corporals, the corporals picked by the sargents to keep the men on side.
Our organisation and our culture will make us superior to other survival groups in the long term, in addition to its adaptability.

Joey I'm going to walk out on a limb and guess that you and the military have a passing acquaintance at best...

Lets see...I got my fathers sword... a few gold nuggets, a horse, 2 dogs, one cow, five hens, a goat, a cart with a damaged wheel, 2 weeks worth of goat cheese, 2 blankets of wool, and my wife and five children. So what do you say? Am I in?

I have experience disassembling, cleaning, and reassembling a good number of handguns and assault rifles. Also have experience using said firearms.

If all else fails, I can be outrun to slow the zombies down since I certain fail rule #1: Cardio.

Brewing alcohol is not hard, millions of people around the world do it every day.

Don't drink the alcohol not made by fermentation though.

corpsesarefun wrote:Brewing alcohol is not hard, millions of people around the world do it every day.

Don't drink the alcohol not made by fermentation though.

If my dad can do it...


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Oh, and I won't be bringing anyone else to the Dakkafort. Aside from any other Brits dakkanoughts I meet up with on the way across the pond.

Tzee your in. Figure the time the zombies are around we already lost a lot of weight and smoking will be far inbetween...like one smoke every 4 days. Unless your smoking pot...which I pass on
Lumen your in. Bring the swords...make a real long bayonet for a rifle for you. Make sure the goat survives the journey to us to. Also bring all the kids. Children Labor laws is out the window. Your wife is up to you but um...5 kids...grats and all....I think we have Fortress Dakka Mom filled.

I'm 20 yrs military Joey. I'm use to the military way if its all military. Its a mix of military and civilians and we're all armed