You RoW people can get your refunds... Might not be a terrible idea since the second-hand market is crashing and the rules are questionable.
I can still recommend the models, and the game is fun but not bulletproof or easy. It is a frame work not a game.
Especially if you backed for more than just hte basic game. IMHO the $100 Captain level will still be an awesome buy for any sort of minis gamer, and this is, IIRC, one of the last great "buckets of minis" kickstarters.
May 8 2014
You Want Answers? I Want the Truth
41 comments
15 likes
We know enough of what happened and have enough answers that putting out an update will have substance. If you followed along with the KS, then you know our policy is to communicate when we have something to share.
It has been two weeks since our last update, but only 10 business days. Email communication with China is an interesting thing. It often takes several days to get to a final answer. Questions lead to answers which leads to other questions and clarifications. In some cases, answers had to be figured out. In others, it was clear what had happened.
Every update at this point is intensely scrutinized and rightly so, but oftentimes this leads to a rumor so when I go through the questions, please try not to be offended by my commentary.
Where is the missing container?
There is no missing container. I never said there was, but as I read the comments this rumor grew and has somehow become truth. I said, we had never scheduled a 6th container pickup. To me, this means we didn’t have another container on the way which means the missing elements were not even loaded. Because, as we found out, they were not finished.
We have produced stuff in China before, but the publishing company we went through (for the MERCS cards and rule book) has a representative on the ground. We have direct contact with the person in the plant, so have first-hand knowledge from someone on OUR side.
We don’t have someone like that for the miniatures. Our contact is the owner and an employee who is with the plant. This is important, because apparently they haven’t quite followed our instructions in terms of production of all the miniatures. From emails, it is clear that this request of ours never made it to the production floor.
It goes further, but I will stop there for now. The question we asked ourselves is: What can we do now? Is there anything we can do? Do we have any power to facilitate a change at this point? The answer is unfortunately no; we must suffer with them until they are done. To make a change now only hurts the project more. We have of course asked them to expedite our stuff, and have communicated our disappointment.
However, the production part is based off a queue (something we didn’t take into account). It has long been rumored that if we could have shipped early why were they not done and that must mean we have known for quite some time that we were going to be late, therefore lies, therefore aliens.
The reason is when we delayed the shipment we moved back in the production queue. Apparently, much further back. We didn’t expect this, but probably should have. We experienced it at are previous jobs, but we didn’t have to deal with production or fulfillment there. Previously we were on a deadline to keep our place in line at the plant.
What’s missing?
Unfortunately, a lot. Alt Heroes, traps and lairs, and a couple of the later large models.
What is the new schedule?
We have schedule the next container pick up for 12 June.
What does that mean for you (wherever you may be)?
For the EU backers: We are going to air freight the last of the minis to the warehouse in Germany. The EU base game and stretch goals will be over there already. One of us will be on site to supervise the arrival, loading of the last of the minis, and to supervise shipping. We have very little knowledge in estimating EU shipping times. However, it is our hope and it has been communicated, that we want EU backers to have their stuff mid to late July.
For non-EU international: We are going to air freight these figures to us and the fulfillment for non-EU international done about the same time as for EU backers. However, for non-EU we are willing to price and ship the base game and sleeves/metal stuff early. If you are interested in checking this pricing please email mercs@mercsminis.com. Nikki will check the price and send it back to you. You can make the decision.
For domestic: Wave 2 will be sent as soon as it arrives on the container. It is not being air-freighted because it will take us three weeks to fill non-EU international AND we don’t have that much space in the warehouse.
When will the new videos be up?
Justin has the footage now. When he gets done and it is approved. I would imagine two (maybe three) will be ready next week. We will shoot the last of the second tile today and tomorrow.
What about revised rulebook and cards?
These will be available for free pdf download as soon as we get done. If you want official Megacon printed versions, you’ll have to wait for the next KS.
Will there be a version 2 rulebook in the second wave/international first wave?
There will be a portion of the rulebook. It will be some of the stuff you’ve seen and some stuff we are working on now. However, it will be one color.
What about the German and French rulebooks?
We will provide them with the same documents we have and it is their choice. We had agreements for the initial rulebook and most of the supplements. However, it is their call on the extra documentation.
Does that mean I can get a refund?
It is clear we won’t hit the June deadline as promised. If you are an international backer and want a refund, we’ll facilitate it. Email Nikki at mercs@mercsminis.com with the subject line REFUND. Domestic backers, however, are not eligible for a refund as they have received their base game which is technically what you backed.
That is about all of the major questions I have read or been asked. If we didn’t answer your question, it is not because we are ignoring it or we are hiding. Has the fulfillment gone as planned? No. But it is far from the worst. Other KS update shipping in terms of quarters. I can see the appeal. If we functioned like other KS (that have not gotten nearly the flack) we would have put out an update one month ago saying the shipment slipped one quarter. In the end, we hope to have full world fulfillment done in late July/early August. Ideal? No. Longer the promised? Yes.
We’ve read people comments that we are hiding and that we are running away or won’t complete the rest of the order. We will complete this KS soon, and continue to take a hard look and fix the issues with the game. In fact, I should have an update very soon with a look at the revised card design. I will also have an update with some pictures with painted second wave sculpts.
Sining wrote: I probably would cancel it if I could get the full amount back. Just tired of the BS, and merc disappearing for days with no reply isn't a great sign either.
That's fair. I suppose after a year, you might not even need/want the thing you pledged for anyway!
The last thing I really need is more models, after all. And as I said earlier, Shadows of Brimstone and Journey are getting closer. And SOB in particular seems poised to scratch that dungeon crawling itch, but without borked rules....
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just read the update. Interesting use of the word technically there for US backers...
If there are any backers who want to drop their pledge, I am looking to pick it up. My brother and a friend would really love to get this game with the KS stuff. Let me know!
As to the update, a little "higher than thou" attitude. I do understand the stance on refunds to domestic customers. Per KS, you ARE only pledging to back the initial offering, not any of the stretch goals. So them having sent Myth domestically already, sorry Americans, you don't get any refunds. It has incensed quite a few people on the boards. Very interesting that they didn't know/weren't tracking what precisely was being made for them, and what was/wasn't in the container. Since the book credits the big 3 at MCG with art and game design, I would suggest they need both a business/project manager and a public/web affairs person. Insulting your customer base isn't usually a winning attitude. Unless you're Palladium.
I've sent them an email, asking what their projected start and finish dates are for shipping international orders. I'll see what they are and then decide if I'm going to ask for a refund or not.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ah,
Here's a big part of the problem.
But we also understand Kickstarter and right now you might be saying to yourself, “Here we go again…another infinitely delayed KS.” We want to reassure all backers with a guarantee. We are so confident you’ll have your game and stretch goals within five months of the original date that we will give a refund to anyone who requests their money back if we fail to deliver your pledge before June 31st, 2014.
So they're essentially rules lawyering and playing their interpretation of RAW. How nice. How respectful.
Azazelx wrote: I've sent them an email, asking what their projected start and finish dates are for shipping international orders. I'll see what they are and then decide if I'm going to ask for a refund or not.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ah,
Here's a big part of the problem.
But we also understand Kickstarter and right now you might be saying to yourself, “Here we go again…another infinitely delayed KS.” We want to reassure all backers with a guarantee. We are so confident you’ll have your game and stretch goals within five months of the original date that we will give a refund to anyone who requests their money back if we fail to deliver your pledge before June 31st, 2014.
So they're essentially rules lawyering and playing their interpretation of RAW. How nice. How respectful.
I agree Az, they are pretty much rules lawyering. I think they also realized that they came across as very harsh, as they changed their tune (some) in the comments for that update. I do feel sorry for them, but they really should write an update and have everyone in the office (or building) read it before they hit send.
In all fairness, it says "a refund", not "a full refund". The amount of the refund is not specified (if my rules lawyering is working). They could easily turn around and say if domestic backers want a refund, MCG give them back $20 for the cost of the stretch goals. I don't think they would get any takers as much chatter as it would create.
Polonius wrote: It's interesting, because even with all the delays and nonsense, it's still cheaper to make stuff in China than in the US.
The delays and nonsense are a big part of what makes it cheaper to actually produce in China...
If you were to contract with a US or any other western company to produce something for you there would be a contract in place that would spell out exactly what would happen if either party was late fuffling part of their requirment. Usually on the manufacturing side there would be a penalty if they were late in producing your product and some kind of bonus if they were early. It would also layout standards for quality, communication, etc. It works both ways though, there would also be requirments placed on the company that hired the manufactuerer as well. Generally these would revolve around timely delivery of the requirements with some type of penalty added on if they fail to meet the time frame.
I agree Az, they are pretty much rules lawyering. I think they also realized that they came across as very harsh, as they changed their tune (some) in the comments for that update. I do feel sorry for them, but they really should write an update and have everyone in the office (or building) read it before they hit send.
Well, we already know they don't have anyone in the building who's any good at proofreading or editing....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Triple9 wrote: In all fairness, it says "a refund", not "a full refund". The amount of the refund is not specified (if my rules lawyering is working). They could easily turn around and say if domestic backers want a refund, MCG give them back $20 for the cost of the stretch goals. I don't think they would get any takers as much chatter as it would create.
Which is just as dishonest, if not more. And again, rules lawyering and weasel-wording.
Besides, I was thinking not so much about stretch goals, but the many, many individual paid add-ons that they happily sold to people a la carte via the pledge manager. Which is really rather dodgy when you start to claim that people only actually pledged for the base game.
Honestly, I'm leaning more and more towards getting my refund simply on the basis that they don't deserve my money in any form due to the way that they behave and treat the backerbase.
Just tried to check the comments to see where they'd "softened" their stance from the pleasantly-worded update, but couldn't find it. It did remind me that the rules issues are a thing.
Polonius wrote: It's interesting, because even with all the delays and nonsense, it's still cheaper to make stuff in China than in the US.
It depends on what $$$ value you put on your reputation and how much the delays/quality hurts your business in the future.
Well, it seems that it was their own fething about that caused them to lose their manufacturing slot in the first place, which snowballed into the clusterfeth we have today.
Catyrpelius wrote: If you were to contract with a US or any other western company to produce something for you there would be a contract in place that would spell out exactly what would happen if either party was late fuffling part of their requirment. Usually on the manufacturing side there would be a penalty if they were late in producing your product and some kind of bonus if they were early. It would also layout standards for quality, communication, etc. It works both ways though, there would also be requirments placed on the company that hired the manufactuerer as well. Generally these would revolve around timely delivery of the requirements with some type of penalty added on if they fail to meet the time frame.
Okay, so much for any KS projects made in the US!
I already have enough cheap man-dollies to paint, so if you're an international who's already found a better place for their KS money, I don't think you're missing much if you cancel or sell your pledge. The plastic quality *is* higher than the soft stuff most boardgames have (and at least one extra mini is metal), and I'm not seeing Captain levels sold on eBay anymore (last price I saw was $250, down from $400, still not bad). Also, BGG has threads of non-backers interested in pledges, so it's not like it's going to be difficult to make a few bucks on this game.
Despite the Myth rulebook, shipping problems, customer relations, completely different theme, etc. etc., Recon still pulled in 800K with 3.8K backers, vs. 900K with 5.4K backers. Not a bad amount of money. KS has pretty much shown me that you don't have to make everyone happy -- just the guys with the cash.
I'd like to see what Recon would have done if they launched it now that the truth about their fulfilment is somewhat out. Do you think they would still have made almost a million?
Also in regard to Myth - they've stated that a revised/fixed/working rulebook will only be available as part of their next kickstarter, though they've also stated that it will be a long time before they run another kickstarter - so it looks like unless you want tp print your own rules PDF, you're SOL when it comes to the rules.
The minis look nice enough, but ultimately, they're cartoony, and so fit in best with their own game, which isn't a proper or complete working game. They don't look like a good fit for either my PNP RPGing or my Minis Wargaming, so no great loss.
As for selling my pledge, I'm not going to take money off someone else and then still be responsible for these clowns fulfilling their part of the bargain correctly, or chasing up other people's missing figures, or any of the other potential bs - especially since I'm international. Not worth the hassle.
Yes it would, but only if they managed to reach the ISS pledge, the recon kickstarter succeeded despite themselves.
Their next kickstarter will have problems, first of all there will be bad faith maintained by the fact they said, "want a new rulebook that is functional, back the next kickstarter", second the recon sculpts and delivery will vastly influence the mood and from the sculpts we have seen from their existing range, they are hit and miss with lots of average in between, if they do not address the misses and the average, it will be another negative on them, finally their games are getting out in the wild and when people start realizing what an inadequate, incomplete product they are, it will heavily impact them.
I think the embiggened writing from up the page about refunds and US backers could potentially bite them in the arse next time it's time for them to go back to the well of Kickstarter town, as well. I think it might have been a bit of an obstacle in them hitting the ISS level as well if all this was out in the open before MERCS finished, no?
I tell you, I'm glad I only went in for $1 in the end. Dodged a real bullet there.
Just an FYI - they said that they would not be able to print the revised rule book and cards until the timeframe of the next KS,.... Not that you had to pledge for the next KS in order to get them.
They said that they would be available outside of Kickstarter.
I agree, it is a long wait (as there is no hint as to when that might be). It's just easy to assume things based on how they put it in the original update,..... You can't edit the updates,... But everyone in the comments ran with the idea that you'd have to pledge even though they responded several times that you would not need to.
Wow, the snark in that update... I just don't get it. You only bother to write an update to help matters, not incite more drama. For goodness sake, have someone proofread it and adjust the tone, as others have already said.
I didn't originally back Myth, so can't post in the KS comments, but I do stop by now and then to see if Mercs ever post anything.
I think it is ridiculously hilarious that backer Kathryn Russell doesn't understand the reaction from the non-US backers who think that her receiving some of the wave 2 stuff now would be unfair. So is it egotism or entitlement that allows her to believe that, because she would pay shipping, that she should receive some of the Stretch Goals (Wave 2) before anyone else, especially the non-US backers who haven't even received the base game yet? She also believes that everyone else commenting on it are being childish in not thinking that she should receive it.
Lmao. Guess this is why I don't delve into KS comment sections very much.
I asked just that a couple of weeks ago and got this as a reply:
It depends on your location, since you are in Australia, the date range will be longer. At this time, we are unable to project a time from for non-EU backers. The last update explained the situation with the product, and we want to make sure all backers are getting taken care of in the best time frame possible. I
Nikki
So I looked over the figures, considered the state of the rules, and how many other, broadly similar dungeon bash games I already own/have coming in (AHQ, D&D, Descent, SDE, Journey, SoB) and then sold my pledge.
While I am kinda excited about the figures, I may end up painting my entire set for fun then selling everything too. So far, the game doesn't hold up compared to heroquest or pathfinder/D&D...
got this today:
Project Update #121: In a smaller font...jokerman font.
Posted by MERCS Miniatures ♥ Like
The next video is coming. I was on vacation and we needed to reshoot one section where my mouth is moving faster than my brain. Regardless, I am shooting the pickup today. The last two parts will be ready at the same time. Sorry for the delay. It is worth the wait…the battle with the boss is epic.
3rd Wave Update
We will pack all that we have here in the next two weeks, then send it to Ulisses. It is tentative, but Kenny and Nikki are planning on being in Germany either the 3rd or 4th week of July to help facilitate the shipping of the EU pledges. The EU orders will be processed and sent out from Ulisses the end of July.
At the same time, we’ll be packing and shipping non-EU international shipments from here. These will all be pre-packed so only the last of the missing pieces will need to be placed and the postage calculated. Once again, I expect we’ll out pace our shippers.
Painted Figures
We received some more of the painted figures in house. I think you’ll be pleased when you put paint on them.
Orcneas, Master of Masters Orcneas, Master of Masters
The Rat King The Rat King
Keesi & Og Keesi & Og
Contacting Us
This is being send on behalf of Nikki. If you want the best possible outcome for your issue, you should email customer service at mercs@mercsminis.com. I know we’ve put this out there in other updates, but still people are using the KS message system, our own forums, BGG, or emailing sales. We try to collect question and issues from all the various emails from places, but to get the fastest answer to your problem please use the mercs email.
Refunds are about 50% done. We expect to have them all done by June 30th. If you are waiting, I only ask for patience. Processing the refunds takes much more time. We verify the totals and making sure all fees are refunded as well. In addition, the refund is being sent so no fees are being taken out. It takes more time, but we are eating all fees and processing them as fast as we can.
Gencon
We have a Slaughterfield event at Gencon and tons of goodies in the booth. If you back Myth and plan on being at Gencon, we can arrange 2nd wave pickup there. In addition, we have a couple cool promo cards you can pickup.
We'll also have the clear Brigand.
I was thinking the same thing. That and "why are you on vacation when a lot of your investors are unhappy and left ass out?" Need to get this finished then go on vacation.
Ahtman wrote: I was thinking the same thing. That and "why are you on vacation when a lot of your investors are unhappy and left ass out?" Need to get this finished then go on vacation.
Yeah... poor form. I'm pretty unhappy with their interaction with backers. I was on the fence with Recon, decided not to back, now I'm very glad. Good deal or no, I'm not interested in giving them more of my money.
But at least the pics are linked to properly here!
**************************************
All this MYTH talk in other threads made me curious...
I guess we missed this update?
Update #121
Jun 10 2014 In a smaller font...jokerman font. 75 comments 36 likes
The next video is coming. I was on vacation and we needed to reshoot one section where my mouth is moving faster than my brain. Regardless, I am shooting the pickup today. The last two parts will be ready at the same time. Sorry for the delay. It is worth the wait…the battle with the boss is epic.
3rd Wave Update
We will pack all that we have here in the next two weeks, then send it to Ulisses. It is tentative, but Kenny and Nikki are planning on being in Germany either the 3rd or 4th week of July to help facilitate the shipping of the EU pledges. The EU orders will be processed and sent out from Ulisses the end of July.
At the same time, we’ll be packing and shipping non-EU international shipments from here. These will all be pre-packed so only the last of the missing pieces will need to be placed and the postage calculated. Once again, I expect we’ll out pace our shippers.
Painted Figures
We received some more of the painted figures in house. I think you’ll be pleased when you put paint on them.
Orcneas, Master of Masters The Rat King Keesi & Og
Contacting Us
This is being send on behalf of Nikki. If you want the best possible outcome for your issue, you should email customer service at mercs@mercsminis.com. I know we’ve put this out there in other updates, but still people are using the KS message system, our own forums, BGG, or emailing sales. We try to collect question and issues from all the various emails from places, but to get the fastest answer to your problem please use the mercs email.
Refunds are about 50% done. We expect to have them all done by June 30th. If you are waiting, I only ask for patience. Processing the refunds takes much more time. We verify the totals and making sure all fees are refunded as well. In addition, the refund is being sent so no fees are being taken out. It takes more time, but we are eating all fees and processing them as fast as we can.
Gencon
We have a Slaughterfield event at Gencon and tons of goodies in the booth. If you back Myth and plan on being at Gencon, we can arrange 2nd wave pickup there. In addition, we have a couple cool promo cards you can pickup.
You know what, I saw that MYTH was $48 on Miniatures Market although they are understandably out of stock now.
That means the game has been out long enough to go 'on sale' at certain retailers and peeps outside the US still don't even have their copy yet. Booooooooo!
I for one can't wait to see what their second Myth kickstarter is going to look like.
Not for the actual game content mind you- I'm genuinely curious how they're going to handle a lot of the bad blood surrounding their first campaign, because you can bet that the comments section is going to one giant meltdown.
I wonder if overseas backers will even have their games by that point? Weren't they talking about doing the expansions around August or something?
I honestly haven't even touched my copy. I don't like playing incomplete games. I've read the rules enough that I think I've got a pretty good handle on things too. Just need the stuff to play it with!
I think they wanted to launch it at least this year, but if they have any logic, they should delay it at least after mercs is done and the problems of this one are either fixed or forgotten.
Hell they were so bad even the Dice tower came out to apologize for giving it a really positive review.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I think they wanted to launch it at least this year, but if they have any logic, they should delay it at least after mercs is done and the problems of this one are either fixed or forgotten.
Hell they were so bad even the Dice tower came out to apologize for giving it a really positive review.
Wow. Was not aware of that. I'd love to hear Tom's thoughts. Where can I find this?
I'd still be tempted to see what they've got in store for the game, how they'll iron out all the kinks, but I want to see how Recon plays out before I give any more money to those guys.
Hell they were so bad even the Dice tower came out to apologize for giving it a really positive review.
Why apologize for giving it a positive review? The game looks great and is super fun to play. The rulebook has problems, yes, but that shouldn't make you "regret" giving a positive review.
They didn't, they apologized for not going over the rulebook and letting the designer teach them so that when the review came out they hadn't spent much time with the rulebook. They apologized for not being as thorough as they should have been, but still give the game itself a positive review with the caveat that the rulebook is pants.
Anyone planning on going to Gencon? I could use the promo cards and clear Brigand. I have played quite a few games and I thoroughly enjoy it! If anyone has access to the recon PM I could use the myth stuff from there as well.
Good news! The container has arrived and cleared customs and should arrive at MCG early next week. The trucking company is still locating a driver to commit to the delivery so we don't have a firm date yet. Otherwise, everything is still going per plan. Once the container arrives, we will process the shipments for all backers not in the EU or US. Then we will send out the remaining items for US backers.
Items for EU were air shipped from China to coincide with the arrival of water shipments of the items previously sent from the US. (Anything hitting distribution channels at this time is coincidental.) Nikki and Kenny will be headed to Ulisses to help with distribution. This is not dependent on the container we're expecting next week.
At this point we believe we have processed all requested refunds. Contact Nikki at mercs@mercsminis.com if you think we missed something. Also, August 10th is the last day to e-mail about Gencon pickup.
Is anyone still playing Myth? Did it ever catch on or are you in a holding pattern? Is this seemingly long wait basically meaning we will get a box of 200 minis and never use them because MYTH already has become DOA from groups?
I am genuinely curious for MYTH people and how it is working in your gaming groups?
I am honestly thinking of power-painting my entire KS second shipment and selling my entire pledge at cost, painted simply to recover my money before the market crashes. They are nice figures, I just can't seem to make a case for anyone to want to play the game.
I am really interested in y'alls experiences because I can't get a good measure from the MYTH boards.
There's nowhere near enough enemy variety in the core game, which, combined with the opacity (or just plain misleading) rules, put a serious damper on our experience with the game. I'm curious to see if added minis will change the variety bit at least.
spiralingcadaver wrote: There's nowhere near enough enemy variety in the core game, which, combined with the opacity (or just plain misleading) rules, put a serious damper on our experience with the game. I'm curious to see if added minis will change the variety bit at least.
Good assessment. We basically were able to play all of the quests and stomp the provided monsters enough to 'play the game' in 3 gameplays... and after all the issues, and no real content change, there seemed to be no reason to play it again.
I am afraid that the game has no replay value unless you really have tons of expansion packs which will hamper new growth. I know the 'craze' is co-op AI mode, but the problem with that is once people figure out the AI, there is little use to re-playing the AI over and over.
We will see when round 2 finally drops... I just can't seem to get anyone excited about it.
nkelsch wrote: [once people figure out the AI, there is little use to re-playing the AI over and over.
Well, I'd agree to a degree: there needs to be something random or otherwise variable enough, and/or difficult enough, that players will get interest after more than one session without feeling like they're just getting wrecked by chance or figuring out a puzzle, which is pretty hard to make. And yes, we're finding Myth doesn't have great replay value, even with different character options, since there isn't a lot to cater to individualization (there's about one way to play each class).
Still playing? - I'd like to have had the chance to play it in the first place - still waiting - I probably should have taken the refund when it was offered but I didn't put much more than the base pledge in and I can find use for the parts if it really doesn't work out.
I found it interesting that Beasts of War got their copy and sent Sam off to learn it and report back - not a word since
Yeah... the minis are good enough, but the core game rules are somewhat disappointing. Sorry to hear about that, at least you can make an informed decision now.
My gaming group and I have just started playing since the new rules released. I have found the play through's we have done so far to be a lot of fun but the game is currently limited on quests, stories and mobs.
We play it Bi-Weekly to stretch it out a bit in hopes Wave 2 ships, our last meeting we discussed moving onto Descent 2 once we finish with Myth.
Hmm I see Wayland are now offering Myth for sale in the UK (although as always, "Available" is not the same as "In Stock"). I wonder if we are talking about copies of the boxed game that were shipped to the US, and have since found their way through the distribution chain to the UK.. before the stuff freighted to Germany can be distributed to backers. Ho hum!
Not only does "Available" not mean "In stock" at Wayland, it frequently means "we have no way of actually getting this stuff to you"! Like products where the entire print run has sold out - they'll gladly take your money at the point of ordering (rather than dispatch) though.
That said, it's popping up in multiple places, such as Gameslore:
I got in late on this one, so I don't get the KS Updates automatically sent to me.
I do subscribe to this thread though, but it seems as if people are...disillusioned with this project now, and therefor aren't keeping this thread up to date?
Anyway, here's the latest!
Update #126
Aug 20 2014
Penultimate
119 comments
66 likes
EU
All EU stuff will arrive in Germany around the same time: water container from US, water container from China, air shipment from China. Preliminary estimates put everything arriving on or before Sept 10.
International (non-EU)
We are filling these orders now. We are starting with Canada. We expect to have all of the non-EU international done by mid to late next week.
Domestic
Finally, we’ll finish the domestic backer’s pledges. We’ll start them after we finish non-EU international. We expect to be done with them by second week of September.
Everything Myth should be in backers hands by the end of September.
Update #127
Aug 25 2014
Shipping Update
140 comments
61 likes
Just wanted to post a quick update on shipping status. We are currently working our way through rest of the world shipments. Backers will receive at least 2 packages from this. The first package will include all printed materials and the base game. The second package will contain all miniatures. We made this choice so that all the heavy materials would not be in the same box as the miniatures. Since these packages have to make a really long trip to their destination we wanted to give them the best chance possible to survive the trip.
First Box Contents
Base Game
Card Sleeves
Overview/Walkthrough
Story Quest Booklet
Metal tokens and coins
Metal Torchbearer
New World Realm Tiles
Slaughterfield Realm Tiles
Monster Cards
Trickster Deck & Items
Quest Expansion 1
All Stretch Goal Boss Decks
Addons that would be included in this package as follows:
Agents of Darkness cards
Quest Expansion 2
Slaughterfield cards and Items
Treasure Bag
Dice
Realm Tile Supplement
Skald cards
Spriggan cards and Metal Spriggan
Treasure Deck Expansion 1
Elemental Boss cards
Battlefoam
T-Shirts
Metal Hero packs
Skald/Spriggan Metal 3pack
Metal Captains
Translated cards and Rules
Additional Realm Tiles (base game tiles)
Additional Hero model and deck (alt gender to follow)
Second Box Contents
All plastic miniatures from stretch goals and addons.
KS Exclusive Story Quest punchboard.
Backers should start receiving their first box over the next few weeks. This is only for rest of the world shipments. Once Nikki and I (Kenny) are over in Germany we will update you again when the shipments start going out. I know its taken some time to get this project out the door and to all of our backers, but we are nearing the finish line on this one so hang in there just a little bit longer. Thank you for your patience and your trust in us to help bring this project to life!
I don't know if the whole 'rules' thing was ever sorted out to most people's satisfaction.
And I'll admit, this campaign definitely dulled my enthusiasm for MERCS too...
Considering I have 2 KS which were after this getting ready to fulfill before this, I would probably sell my painted models and the rest of my KS pledge 'at cost'. I will have to see when the rest arrives... if it ever does.
If Arcadia Quest gets here first, Myth may be forever done.
I have a KS that started before this and haven't received them yet, so I guess those balance each other out?
The book is a bit cluncky but they have updated explanations on the website and once you get the hang of it Myth is lots of fun. The production values are really quite good as well. Yeah, they have some growing pains as a company but they are slowly making progress. I don't begrudge anyone for backing out, especially the non-NA backers, but I knew going in this was a KS and not a store and that delays were possible if not inevitable. They are slow, but the product is good and the minis are as well so I still feel like I got a really good deal for the price.
I think they learned a lot from this and Recon won't have as many delays, though it is having its own brand of issues, such as the third party Pledge Manager hiccup. In the end you have to decide whether or not the savings is worth the investment and wait. For me it has been, but I imagine for others it won't be.
My pledge is stuck in customs, awaiting a more detailed packing list. This has happened only once before, with the first shipment of Kings of War. Let's see if the Megacon guys are as responsive as Mantic was.
This time, due to the...concern...raised by EU Peeps the first time around, EU stuff is getting shipped out 'first'.
Now, of course the EU Peeps already had to wait for Wave 2 to arrive before anything from Wave 1 was shipped to them, but, EU Peeps did get their Wave 2 stuff shipped first this time.
Given all that's happened so far with this one, what else should have happened here?
Anyone tried and enjoyed the game ? I for one just received part 1 and playtested it alone before trying it with friends. The rulebook is quite awful but once you get to understand what happens when, why and how, things seem to fall in place.
I've had a lot of fun playing it and can't wait to try it with friends =P
Alpharius wrote: This time, due to the...concern...raised by EU Peeps the first time around, EU stuff is getting shipped out 'first'.
Now, of course the EU Peeps already had to wait for Wave 2 to arrive before anything from Wave 1 was shipped to them, but, EU Peeps did get their Wave 2 stuff shipped first this time.
Given all that's happened so far with this one, what else should have happened here?
How does that make sense? EU and ROW are shipping from different warehouses and delaying ROW just to ship EU first makes no sense.
Has anyone contacted the mercs guys and actually gotten a response? I've sent them messages four days ago through their website, Kickstarter and the email link they put in the latest update, but haven't heard back. Failing that, does anyone know a way to get a detailed list of a pledge to this KS? I really don't want the customs guys to send my box back after it's gotten this close.
Our early estimates of September 10th for all packages being in Germany is now being updated to September 29th. All the product that has been sent from China is currently in Germany. The contents that are delayed is everything that was in Box 1 in the previous update that was sent from our warehouse to Germany. Nikki and I are still planning on flying to Germany to assist in the fulfillment of these orders.
Brian is still going to attend Spiele and will be around the Uylsses booth for those that wish to meet him. At this time I do not think it is possible to do pickups at Spiele. If this changes I will let you know. Depending on what level and how much you pledged these boxes are going to be quite heavy and large so keep this in mind if we do end up allowing pickups.
RoW Shipping Update
All Box 1 packages have been shipped at this point. There were around 12 packages that were returned for various reasons ranging from damaged by the postal service to being refused by a particular country's customs inspection. The damaged packages are being repackaged and sent out right away. Any packages being refused by either the customer or customs will take a bit longer to resolve.
If there is missing content from your order please send an email to mercs@mercsminis.com and we can put it in with the Box 2 contents as long as we can insure, to the best of our ability, that it won't damage the miniatures.
Box 1 Contents Pictures & Details
Materials not shown are Kickstarter Exclusive Story Book, 2 promo cards, Overview/Walkthrough Book, card sleeves, metal tokens, coins and Torchbearer. These are in one bag. Any Metal Hero or Captain Pack purchased as an Add on is also not shown. The below pictures should help everyone check the contents of their box.
Stretch Goals
Realm Tile Expansion 1: 10 new double sided realm tiles
Slaughterfield Realm Tiles: 1 12x12 and 4 4x6 realm tiles.
Monster Pack: Etrus the Last Mini-Boss card, Soulless Captain card, Shamblers Minion card, Rath Captain card, Tailless Minion card, Sycleech Captain card, Sycline Minion card, Iao Captain card, Iathi (Fire) Minion card, Iathi (Air) Minion card, Iathi (Earth) Minion card.
KS Exclusive Pack: 5 Trickster Item cards (2 Brown, 2 Green, 1 Blue), 1 Orange Item card, Donnchadh Agent card, Donnchadh Agent Ability card, Conner Mini-Boss card, Razorfiend Mini-Boss card, Twilight Knight Mini-Boss card, Keesi & Og Mini-Boss card, Conner's Toy quest card, and the Trickster's deck of 31 cards.
Quest Expansion 1: 30 Quest cards (1 chapter quest, 7 chained chapter quests, 10 continuing chapter chain quests, 1 act chained quest, 11 continuing act chained quests).
Syclopt Boss Deck: 2 Syclopt Boss cards, 10 Darkness cards.
Orcneas Boss Deck: 2 Orcneas, Master of Masters Boss cards, 10 Darkness cards.
Bones Boss Deck: 2 Bones Boss cards, 10 Darkness cards.
Urulok Boss Deck: 1 Urulok the Young Boss cards, 10 Darkness cards.
Rat King Boss Deck: 4 Rat King Boss cards, 10 Darkness cards.
Translated Components: While the French version is shown here, the German version is packaged the same way. Those who chose to get the translated version of the game actually get all cards, including add ons, whether they purchased those or not.
Add Ons
Spriggan Hero: Metal Spriggan Hero miniature, 7 Spriggan item cards (5 Green, 2 Blue), 31 Spriggan Hero cards.
Item Expansion 1: 34 Item cards (4 Blue, 15 Green, 12 White, 3 Set)
Ia Boss Deck: 2 Ia Boss cards, 10 Darkness cards.
Realm Tile Supplement 1: 6 new double sided 6x6 realm tiles.
Skald Hero: 5 Item cards (2 Brown, 2 Green, 1 Blue), 31 Skald Hero cards.
Treasure Bag
Extra Dice Set: 10x d10's, 5x custom d6's
Slaughterfield Expansion: 15 Slaughterfield Item cards, 15 Achievement cards, 10 Wave Generator cards.
Quest Expansion 2: 30 Quest cards (5 chapter quests, 5 chained chapter quests, 13 continuing chapter chain quests, 4 act quests, 3 continuing act chained quests.
Agents of Darkness: Stvln the Leash Agent card, Stvln the Leash Agent ability card, Talsia Xa'ndria Agent card, Talsia Xa'ndria Agent ability card, Kelish of the Mark Agent card, Kelish of the Mark Agent ability card.
Monday September 15th we will start shipping Box 2 to rest of world (RoW). Until I have a good day or two to package these orders I won't be able to give an estimate on how long it will take to fulfill. So not much to say really for this update but I just wanted to give you the information I had available once it was 100%.
Boss Sizes
I've seen a few requests in the comments section for Boss sizes so i thought i would post these here in case anyone needs the info...and also a picture of all the Bosses hanging out. Enjoy! The soldier is just chilin' to give you an idea of the sizes.
In order from largest to smallest. Height x Width x and in some cases Depth
Bosses
Ia: 100mm x 85mm
Orcneas, Master of Masters: 95mm x 95mm
Terror with 1000 Legs: 90mm x 80mm
Urulok, the Young: 85mm x 155mm x 90mm
Bones: 80mm x 100mm
Syclopt: 70mm x 95mm
The Rat King: 65mm x 75mm
Mini-Bosses
Etrus the Last: 75mm x 50mm
Keesi & Og: 70mm x 65mm
Yardu: 60mm x 50mm
Twilight Knight: 50mm x 40mm x 45mm
Conner: 40mm x 50mm
Hope this helps for those who are looking for storage solutions.
NEXT!
Update #130
Sep 17 2014
Box 2 Shipping Update pt.2
97 comments
69 likes
Update on RoW Shipping Completion
After ironing out the kinks the first few days I am confident that we can finish RoW shipping by the end of this week. Short and sweet but it looks like its going to go fairly quick.
Miniatures Included in a Captain Pledge
I always knew there were a lot of miniatures included in captain and above level pledges, but until I packed the first order and filled the box with minis it didn't really sink in how much stuff was in there! That is going to be a lot of miniatures to paint!! Keep in mind this does not include any add ons or the base game itself.
Another picture of the full pledge including printed materials
Probably not the greatest pictures in the world but you get an idea of what you get. Use the Pledge Level Tally link on the main page below the giant picture of the Twilight Knight to see the breakdown. Enjoy!
I'm back out to the warehouse to ship so I won't be available to answer questions until much later in the day.
Next!
Update #131
Sep 22 2014
RoW and Domestic Shipping Update
210 comments
29 likes
For domestic backers we suggest signing up for UPS My choice where you can personally track your package and change your address or make special delivery arrangements. This service is free and gives you complete control over your package.
Box 2 has been shipped to everyone that we considered Rest of World. This includes any shipments that were considered to be in the EU but were shipped from our warehouse. Australia and New Zealand backers will be receiving their Box 2 shipments before they receive their Box 1. This is because the Box 1 shipments are being shipped via our distributor Aetherworks. The product is due to arrive at their warehouse within the next few weeks.
Our pace for fulfilling orders is much greater than expected. We are currently averaging 400 packages shipped per day. We have been shipping domestic orders alphabetically by state. Currently we have fulfilled up to and most of Florida. All of our domestic backers are also receiving a printed copy of the overview/walkthrough as well, which many people have found quite helpful.
EU Shipping is still on schedule per update 128.
FOR DOMESTIC BACKERS ONLY
As many of you know, there have been multiple production issues with Myth. When we received the miniatures into the warehouse, after fulfilling RoW, we realized that we are short on three of the stretch goals in the Myth Kickstarter: Skeletons x6, Elemental Captains x2, and Rat Captains x2.
These shortages only apply to US domestic backers. Everything shipped to EU and RoW is 100% fulfilled.
What we have done to make sure everyone gets something is to provide one bag of Elemental and Rat Captains regardless of pledge level. Anyone who bought these captains from add-ons will receive those as well. The only state to receive the Skeletons x6 is California and some of our backers that had APO/FPO addresses since these were small.
I realize this is disappointing news and we apologize for the error. The issue is being resolved as quickly as possible, but it takes time to produce the miniatures, ship them overseas, and then to our warehouse. All domestic backers that did not receive their two Skeletons x6 will instead receive Skeletons x10. All domestic backers will receive the remainder of the Rat and Elemental Captains with these Skeletons.
I'm in California which according to their update, they've completed shipping for. However, I've received no confirmation of any kind that my package has been sent out.
It's pretty trivial and other companies, such as Miniature Market, ships UPS. Friday shipment here, too!
From the Comments in the update:
"If you are a captain level right now you get 1 x10 bag of skeletons. So right now you would be short 12 skeletons (as well as 2 rat and elemental captains). When we finally get the reorder, skeleton miniatures will only be in x10 bags. So we will send you one bag of x10, 2 loose skeleton miniatures, 2 rat captains, and 2 elemental captains. These numbers are only accurate if you are a captain level pledge and will completely fulfill the order."
While the minis do look neat, With AQ and SDE in route soon, I don't think I will be able to get anyone to ever play Myth again. :( And I don't know if I want a box of plastic to paint in my house.
If someone wants a MYTH Apprentice pledge + all the add-on models and upgrades (IE: a complete package) let me know. I will make you a huge deal!
Finally managed to get a game in. Man, the rules are so damn bad -_- We tried playing a game and while I like the general theme but the rulebook they gave was so bad.The FAQ; which I found after the gaming session, just made things so much better
I downloaded the faq from Megacon. That was a huge help but their rulebook still really sucks as it is. The quest cards are also weird because some of the quests don't even give you all the information needed to set it up
Sining wrote: I downloaded the faq from Megacon. That was a huge help but their rulebook still really sucks as it is. The quest cards are also weird because some of the quests don't even give you all the information needed to set it up
Download the manual ced1106 references in the previous post, then read the 1.1 manual. I was left scratching my head, but the user written manual lays things out in a much more understandable fashion, then the 1.1 manual helps elaborate on some nuance. You'll be left thinking to yourself that the original manual made the game seem needlessly complex, but it's really pretty straightforward.
Think of the quest setup as over-riding or supplementing the setup listed on the tile rather than specifically calling out every single part of the setup. I think a lot of people are thrown off by just how much of a sandbox Myth is and are simply used to following exactly what is written on the card.
Yep. With the core game, you've got pretty few options, and encountering one that's too hard early on will pretty quickly teach you to play conservatively, while, by the time we were reaching the miniboss and boss, we had enough good gear and enough experience that we breezed past them, choice or no.
I'm actually starting to find the rules pretty good. I am in no way any sort of MegaCon apologist either.
Yes, it's taken quite a few read throughs. Yes, they can be quite daunting/ ill- worded and vague at times, but as Megacon even says, modify them as you see fit or interpret them as you feel would best suit the game.
And honestly, there is a pretty darn good game underneath all the hype and hyperbole, drama of all shapes and sizes, rules issues, shipping problems and general craziness that has surrounded this game.
I'm glad I didn't let all the issues around this one sour me too much. I've been digesting these rules long enough, that given a few more quests under my belt, I could probably explain it fairly quickly and fluidly to someone new.
I'll give it a shot on Barzam one of these weekends.
To me, at this point, what is going to really make or break this one is how they develop it in the future.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: as Megacon even says, modify them as you see fit or interpret them as you feel would best suit the game.
Is something I just can't get behind.
I'm fine with modding games, but I wholly believe that mods should be to add some fun or new elements to a game, not to patch it. I could eventually house rule 40k until it looked like Malifaux, but that wouldn't mean 40k was an objective-based skirmish game. Similarly, I could modify Myth until it was something I liked better, but that wouldn't mean Myth is a game I like, nor would it say anything about the merit of Myth or their designers.
I agree with you overall. A board game should have a solid rules foundation, not a get out of jail free "mod it to your content" escape clause for bad presentation.
The way I read it, and how it might have been worded wherever I came across that, was if the rules become a point of contention, or you end up confused with how things might need to play out (multiple effects popping and how that might interfere with other attacks/ darkness/ kills), I think the idea they're suggesting is to just follow what you feel is the best course of action (as opposed to going into rules lawyer mode), especially in order to keep gameplay flowing.
Maybe it's just me. I don't know. After spending years watching horribly translated Chinese to English anime subtitles and playing video games with all sorts of atrocities committed to the English language (Wild Arms 2, anyone?), the Myth rules don't strike me as that badly written, other than being a bit disjointed in how they are presented.
The rules are fairly solid, it is just that they are explained incredibly badly. Once I understood it I haven't felt the need to change anything, but boy those initial rules are poorly written, no bones about it.
Yep, the rules are mostly okay (if boring), but horribly explained and with some seriously ambiguous parts (looking at you, trap quest... that thing is basically unplayable unless you make a series of assumptions)
just got my second wave from the kickstarter. First impressions is the stuff is solid looking but the rules just didn't do it for me or my gaming group. Glad I didn't kickstart the other game.
Piston Honda wrote: just got my second wave from the kickstarter. First impressions is the stuff is solid looking but the rules just didn't do it for me or my gaming group. Glad I didn't kickstart the other game.
I didn't really do either for the rules, it was a fairly cheap way to get mini's and tiles in large numbers; the rules were always secondary to a good deal on miniatures. My group actually had a decent amount of fun with Myth, we just wished the rulebook wasn't so obtuse. I mainly did recon because decent sci-fi rpg 'minions' are hard to come by and it has a decent amount.
I didn't back Recon partially because I don't believe in backing companies who run a KS when they didn't fulfill their previous one. In the middle of Recon, BGG was in an uproar over the rulebook. I'm sure had MCG held off, they would have made more money. They still made 800K vs. Myth's 900K, so WDIK?
CMON / Micro Arts Studios has three days left in its KS. They've just added six more bases, including Forest and Arcane (Graveyard already added), which should make good 3D obstacle markers as well as bases.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: A heads up but Cool Stuff is supposed to have Myth for the deal of the day again.
40 bucks for the base game.
woof.... Well. I think the whole "back the KS now and you can always sell your pledge later" has been demolished with this one. For a 100$ game to be 40$ at retail so close to release and before people even get all of their pledge shows just how bad these 100$ board game pledges really are, especially when the game fails.
I am seriously skeptical backing games without fully explored and tested rules before the KS now.
Some of those 100 dollar games are definitely not worth it, I agree. I think it's all relative to what you pay (as well as how much you value what you end up with).
Keep in mind though that for that 100 bucks, backers are still getting a hell of a lot more content than they would if they were just getting the base game.
I didn't get many add ons, but the pile of stuff I got in the mail was quite impressive. Extra tiles, extra quests, extra heroes, extra bosses, extra darkness decks, extra minion races, agents... there's a lot of loot there.
Agreeing with Highlord. I definitely do not back non-miniature boardgame KS because you can get a competitive price through the OLGS. Miniatures are definitely different -- not only do you have to find an OLGS that stocks and discounts the miniature, but you have to find enough miniature and paint product to reach the free shipping threshold.
Many boardgame KS do provide a PnP or demo game, but if you're looking for a finished ruleset, yes, avoid KS, except maybe for reprints (eg. Kremlin). BoardGameGeek has a geeklist of boardgames whose rules did not live up to the campaign, and Myth is hardly one of the early entries!
So far, Zombicide and Myth are the only boardgames that fulfill my "150 miniatures for $100" critieria, and I'm happy with my pledges! I succumbed to Cthulhu Wars (: but, as a miniature hobbyist, I have found PLENTY of non-boardgame KS's to suck out the cash from my wallet!
Ahtman wrote: I finally got the last of my KS, and it is a mountain of miniatures when all laid out.
Exactly!
It is a ton of miniatures, and it was probably one of the last "Really Good Deals" on Kickstarter that we'll ever see.
For the price, it was a great deal - if you like the style of the miniatures, of course.
I think that they'll sort out the rules sooner or later and I'm looking forward to playing the actual game with my group...eventually!
It's a shame how personally some people have taken that they don't like the game or the rules or MCG themselves. I don't know if it's a generational thing or a boardgame/miniatures game thing or just having too much time on their hands, but walking into some of the Myth threads is like walking into a HQ25 thread.
Check out the unofficial rewrite if you haven't had a chance.
Even though it's fan generated, it's as polished and professional as any other manual I've seen; more importantly, it's very good. It's probably a matter of pride/ego, but I think MCG should be linking to it as a stop-gap until their official rewrite is released.
I think MYTH just did too good a job of selling the game leading to massive weight of expectation
an adequate meal at a fast food place is not ideal, but you won't see lots of ire about it
an adequate meal at a 3 star Michelin restaurant will draw loads of fire
plus loads of KS backers being soured by the various shipping problems makes things worse as they've already decided they don't like the company when (and if) they try out the game
Ahtman wrote: I finally got the last of my KS, and it is a mountain of miniatures when all laid out.
Exactly!
It is a ton of miniatures, and it was probably one of the last "Really Good Deals" on Kickstarter that we'll ever see.
For the price, it was a great deal - if you like the style of the miniatures, of course.
I think that they'll sort out the rules sooner or later and I'm looking forward to playing the actual game with my group...eventually!
It's a shame how personally some people have taken that they don't like the game or the rules or MCG themselves. I don't know if it's a generational thing or a boardgame/miniatures game thing or just having too much time on their hands, but walking into some of the Myth threads is like walking into a HQ25 thread.
Check out the unofficial rewrite if you haven't had a chance.
Even though it's fan generated, it's as polished and professional as any other manual I've seen; more importantly, it's very good. It's probably a matter of pride/ego, but I think MCG should be linking to it as a stop-gap until their official rewrite is released.
My issue now is how 'pokemonish' they made the rules and the system to make the game seem unusable and incomplete out of the core box. No other game have I ever played seemed so incomplete without expansions. And the core boxed set you can't even play a lot of the quests and are frequently using tokens due to lack of available models. Simply to have a second spawn of the same race or a different race takes a massive investment. I don't think people realized it was going to be this bad when we backed. I did not expect to need 20 models for a single spawn point in a game which can have 3-4 monster packs active at once sometimes. They really over-monetized this game with packs and made different mechanics too dependent on expansions.
So it is not just about the rules, it is the game is quickly repetitive and seemingly incomplete without having a 300$+ pledge or 500$+ at retail investment. It reeks of the MegaMan KS where Cutsman and Gutsman were not going to be in the core box but yet it was a complete game.
Even with the rules fixed up, the sandbox nature, the overall poor quest design and the way it uses minis and tedious AI is simply too many strikes. Sure they are cool models and if you were backing for minis, it is a great deal. I am just super disappointed by the rules to the point it makes the entire experience bad. A game should be fun, and Myth simply isn't fun.
My issue now is how 'pokemonish' they made the rules and the system to make the game seem unusable and incomplete out of the core box. No other game have I ever played seemed so incomplete without expansions. And the core boxed set you can't even play a lot of the quests and are frequently using tokens due to lack of available models. Simply to have a second spawn of the same race or a different race takes a massive investment. I don't think people realized it was going to be this bad when we backed. I did not expect to need 20 models for a single spawn point in a game which can have 3-4 monster packs active at once sometimes. They really over-monetized this game with packs and made different mechanics too dependent on expansions.
So it is not just about the rules, it is the game is quickly repetitive and seemingly incomplete without having a 300$+ pledge or 500$+ at retail investment. It reeks of the MegaMan KS where Cutsman and Gutsman were not going to be in the core box but yet it was a complete game.
Even with the rules fixed up, the sandbox nature, the overall poor quest design and the way it uses minis and tedious AI is simply too many strikes. Sure they are cool models and if you were backing for minis, it is a great deal. I am just super disappointed by the rules to the point it makes the entire experience bad. A game should be fun, and Myth simply isn't fun.
Fair points. I think it's an interesting miniatures game/board game hybrid and I like the sandbox nature of it. It's a welcome change from the rigidity of other co-op crawls, where I'm basically card counting as to what the next AI card will bring. The core set is limited, but my pledge included much more than the core set, so that doesn't affect any retail perception I might have.
If I had bought it at retail expecting a complete board game, I would be disappointed. If I bought it at retail viewing it as a miniatures starter set, I would be happy (especially at a discounted price). I bought in at a core captain pledge ($100) with no add-ons and there's plenty to keep me occupied for a while. So I would ask, do you feel after receiving wave 2 that you didn't receive enough miniatures to enjoy the game (barring your mentioned gameplay issues) without needing to buy additional expansions? (pretend you received the wave 3 minis as well, so tack on another 12 skeletons and a couple rat and elemental captains)
Must be a different rating system over there. In the US it is typically a 5 Star Rating system and Michelin is a tire company; I read that as "a mediocre meal at a tire store".
Michelin rates worldwide. Getting even a single Michelin star is a big accomplishment. 3-star is the highest and pretty near impossible to get. There is only 1 3-star in Chicago, 7 in New York and 2 in the bay area.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: A heads up but Cool Stuff is supposed to have Myth for the deal of the day again.
40 bucks for the base game.
woof.... Well. I think the whole "back the KS now and you can always sell your pledge later" has been demolished with this one. For a 100$ game to be 40$ at retail so close to release and before people even get all of their pledge shows just how bad these 100$ board game pledges really are, especially when the game fails.
I am seriously skeptical backing games without fully explored and tested rules before the KS now.
With limited exceptions, I'm pretty much done with KS now. AU$ dropping and the woeful under-performance of pretty much every board game KS so far in some way or many means it's time to take a break for a year or two and see how many of these actually come in in that time. - especially new miniatures boardgames with a new IP and from new creators. Incursion, Cthulhu Wars, SoB, Myth (so happy I sold my pledge now) and even Mantic's chain of KS with decent rules and awful restic models...
Maybe I'm just easier to please, but I'm pretty happy with nearly all of my KS boardgame purchases. I'm actually mostly really pleased with MYTH as well.
Maybe I misunderstand what is meant by "under performance...."
Without getting into a rant, Myth had an absolutely horrible manual, didn't explain much, had scenarios which required major assumptions to play, and the AI can be very easily beaten, and is pretty repetitive.
It generally felt like the game saw no outside playtesting, and after all the clarifications were made it was still not very good.
I've grown to like some of the KS games I've played, but I don't think there's been a single one where I haven't been mildly disappointed with it at least when it arrived, and there are some I wish I'd never heard of.
I've been pretty satisfied with the bulk of my board game purchases... that I've actually received! Delays and wave shipping aside, I've been pretty content with what I've got. Galaxy Defenders has probably been my favorite true boardgame (albeit one with miniatures).
I'm not even going to begin to count how many outstanding games I'm still waiting on. At least I can expect a certain level of quality from all those outstanding ones. Plus, hell, I've got Brimstone coming tomorrow.
I will say like many others I've become a lot shrewder and more discerning about what I back these days, even if it is quite a bit still.
I only back miniatures and miniature-boardgame KS, because most boardgames can later be bought at the OLGS at a discount and I can at least use the 28mm miniatures in other games. Indeed, in earlier days, some boardgame KS would ship to retailers at the same time or earlier than backers, at the same discount. Because MCG put out their MERCS miniatures game, I was pretty sure they'd deliver the mini's, but since this was their first KS and they were doing plastic miniatures for the *first* time, I figured they'd miss their estimated date and ship a year or whatever later. The poorly written rulebook was unexpected, revised editions are available. I hope they choose to fix the problems they had in MYTH by the time RECON comes out.
So lets play the "what do you have outstanding" that should have been delivered already game...
I'll go first:
Kingdom Death: Monster (Nov 2013)
Arena Rex (Dec 2013)
Wrath of Kings (May 2014)
Journey Wrath of Demons (July 2014)
Lil Dicky's Album (Mar 2014)
Wakfu Animated Series (April 2014) - And is on Netflix, which makes me double irritated
Arcadia Quest (Sept 2014) I told them they could ship me last so I expected to wait a lil longer on this.
I'm just at Kingdom Death, Arena Rex, and Journey. I was with Super Dungeon Explore, but eventually sold my pledge, partially because I'd painted some SDE minis in the mean time and didn't particularly like them, partially because Myth frustrated me, partially because I didn't like Soda Pop's recent handling of stuff.
spiralingcadaver wrote: I'm just at Kingdom Death, Arena Rex, and Journey. I was with Super Dungeon Explore, but eventually sold my pledge, partially because I'd painted some SDE minis in the mean time and didn't particularly like them, partially because Myth frustrated me, partially because I didn't like Soda Pop's recent handling of stuff.
I still have SDE too, which will prob be late. I just can't quit me those models.
I think the only one I really have (boardgame wise) is Recon. I'm hoping that the lessons learned from Myth make Recon less problematic when it comes to shipping. I like everything I got, and I understand growing pains, but i begrudge no one for being upset with them especially non-NA backers.
Outside that still waiting on vidya games Pillars of Eternity and The Mandate.
They tend to take longer but the few I have backed are moving along. Pillars of Eternity (Project Eternity) is coming up on the two year mark but it was said back when they started what the projected date was.
I win the battle of the late stuff (not including the two projects I've written off)
Trollforged
Kingdom Death
Arena Rex (shipping just started, but I wait for MIKH)
Raging heroes
Cthulhu Wars
Double Six Dice
Arcadia Quest
Wrath of Kings
Reaper Bones II October 2014 (they've said it's slipped)
and possibly Red Box Games (I think this should just have shipped, but I may be one of the few waiting for a re-stock)
but in general I'm either OK with my KS stuff, or actually delighted either because of the value or quality (or both).
Delays are a bit of a nuisance, but once you accept they will happen it's just part of the experience (like mud at a UK music festival)
I've made worse purchases at a game store (and they hurt more as you see immediately you've thrown your money away, KS gives you time to write it off in your mind).
Relic Knights was the only one I'd got really fed up with, but now it's arrived the models are pretty good (bar a couple), the books great and the game is fun so it was worth the wait
cincydooley wrote: Maybe I'm just easier to please, but I'm pretty happy with nearly all of my KS boardgame purchases. I'm actually mostly really pleased with MYTH as well.
Maybe I misunderstand what is meant by "under performance...."
Being a year late, over promising and underdelivering - that sort of thing. Underperformance in either the way the KS runs post-funding with regard to delivery or communication (Incursion, Cthulhu Wars, Brimstone) or in terms of quality of final physical product - miniatures or rules (Sedition Wars, Myth, DreadBall). Zombicide S2 was one of the few that (mostly) got a tick - though even that one was saved by your assistance since CMON's CS wasn't being very useful. Wave 2 of it went off without a hitch, though.
Of course, many other factors may be at play between your and my experiences - we may have also backed very different boardgame KS, and your experiences may also be very different, being located in the US and having personal contacts within CMON.
This isn't getting into miniatures-only, wargame or terrain KS - which are a whole other bag of gripes.
I'm not even going to begin to count how many outstanding games I'm still waiting on.
Another good reason why I'm taking some time off from backing them.
Hmm... a delay-game. Do I even want to play this?
ok... I figure it's probably a good thing, if it can put me further off backing any more campaigns for awhile.
Do we count campaigns that split things off into multiple waves to be delivered years apart? I can't see why not, so I'm going to here...
I won't count things that I went in for a basic pledge of $1 and then decided not to take up on the PM - like Imbrian Arts, Creature Caster, etc. Just campaigns that I'm awaiting proper products from. Also not counting MYTH, because I sold my pledge, or stuff that's supposed to deliver in Oct, since it's not late yet..
Sedition Wars - do the solo rules or book count? It's still not fully delivered - (June 2012)
Judge Dredd Miniatures (Nov 2012)
Avatars of War (Indiegogo) (Jan 2013)
Dreamforge Games (March/May 2013)
Trollforged Assimilation Alien Host (May 2013)
Secret Weapon Tablescapes (Oct 2013/May 2014)
Winter War Wargaming Miniatures (Nov 2013)
DeadZone W3 (Dec 2013)
Cthulhu Wars (Dec 2013)
Robotech RPG Tactics (Dec 2013)
Raging Heroes TGG (Mar 2014)
Incursion (Mar 2014)
Project Eternity (Apr 2014)
Games & Gears Battle Boards (May 2014)
Wrath of Kings (May 2014)
Mars Attacks (April 2014)
Journey: Wrath of Demons (July 2014)
Shadows of Brimstone (Aug 2014)
Arcadia Quest (Sep 2014)
Reaper Bones II (Oct 2014)
You win Azazelx you have more issues and as Cincydooly says you've got more in shipping to
(although I'm happy with Sedition Wars, and could cope with delays on most of your list I'd have to admit Judge Dredd and Avatars of War and Games and Gears at least would have got me annoyed)
Azazelx, on Sedition Wars, the solo rules are out, and you're probably going to get disappointed on the book, since the guy who wanted to write it isn't part of the team any more. The only outstanding thing on that project is the alternative stats for one of the monsters.
cincydooley wrote: Of course coupled with the fact that you're from Oz and basically get fethed whenever it comes to shipping cost and queue order.
How's the OZ and other non-UK non-US game markets, anyway? I'm noticing more UK-based KS (and the occasional Polish one), which suggests KS may be slowly helping game companies outside the US markets.
spiralingcadaver wrote: Azazelx, on Sedition Wars, the solo rules are out, and you're probably going to get disappointed on the book, since the guy who wanted to write it isn't part of the team any more. The only outstanding thing on that project is the alternative stats for one of the monsters.
I thought they've only released the beta solo rules?
spiralingcadaver wrote: Nope, they're out in a PDF formatted like the rest of the official stuff now.
May want to tell McVey to get off his butt an put out an update to the KS announcing it then, so all the KS pledgers will know. Last update was for the beta rules (10 June 2014).
Mike would need to tell CMoN that, since they're in control of the KS announcements... IDK what the story is, but know they've been kinda' slow on announcements.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: You win Azazelx you have more issues and as Cincydooly says you've got more in shipping to
(although I'm happy with Sedition Wars, and could cope with delays on most of your list I'd have to admit Judge Dredd and Avatars of War and Games and Gears at least would have got me annoyed)
I don't see it as a competition, (Yay! I won by losing the most?) but you guys posting that motivated me to have a look at my own backing. I'm getting more than a little over 1+ year being standard for a lot of boardgames, though.
spiralingcadaver wrote: Azazelx, on Sedition Wars, the solo rules are out, and you're probably going to get disappointed on the book, since the guy who wanted to write it isn't part of the team any more. The only outstanding thing on that project is the alternative stats for one of the monsters.
Any link to the Solo rules? I don't recall seeing them in an update. Actually, I don't recall the updated rules being shared that way, come to think of it. (I might be wrong). McVey forums somewhere? As for the book... well, I wouldn't call it disappointed since I probably wouldn't have bothered to read it, but it's really emblematic of how badly Sedition Wars was handled. Having something as simple as alt stats still outstanding at this stage of the game is pretty unforgivable and in the same light.
ced1106 wrote: How's the OZ and other non-UK non-US game markets, anyway? I'm noticing more UK-based KS (and the occasional Polish one), which suggests KS may be slowly helping game companies outside the US markets.
The Oz market is so badly fethed up by the middlemen distributors jacking the prices up (because they can) and many retailers doing the same (also because they can) that it's cheaper for me to order and air freight things like Descent and it's expansions from the UK as single items. So pretty much the same as miniatures, then. Though Eureka produces local historical miniatures/items, local sculpts and hires local sculptors, there's really no local boardgame industry. Other local mini sculptors and producers tend to go for the overseas market, charge in US dollars a lot of the time, and charge even more than GW for similar products.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alpharius wrote: We should probably take all the non-MYTH talk to the appropriate threads and get this one back on topic - thanks!
I don't know if it has finished, but at least one copy has arrived in Japan. On my initial read-through, it looks pretty fun. Kinda like D&D/ Heroquest/ 13th Age without a DM. It's going to be a while before I can give it a go, though.
Today we received news that the container that was held up in customs has finally been cleared and is ready to be delivered to Ulisses Spiele. The scheduled day of delivery is Monday, October 20th. We have been working to get this resolved ever since we returned from Germany and we're happy to report that it is actually going to be delivered this time! Once we have confirmation that the container has actually arrived at their warehouse and they have received it we will post in this thread confirming delivery.
Shortly thereafter they should begin processing the orders for EU. Only once Ulisses begins shipping we will have a better idea of their ETA to finish. When we have confirmation from Ulisses that they are finished shipping we will post another update letting the EU backers know that their product is on its way.
Order Discrepancies
Once everyone has received their packages please send us an email at mercs@mercsminis.com for any replacement parts or questions about your order. Please give the package at least 2 weeks delivery time from when they start shipping to notify us if you haven't received anything.
Now, maybe I missed something in a previous update but isn't this the first actual confirmation that something went wrong with their original plan to visit Germany and start preparing orders around September 29th? The original date came and went without any real explanation..
After hearing from Ulisses Spiele this morning, they hope to being EU shipping pledges tomorrow. This is great to hear, and we're really pleased that everything has finally arrived and is getting prepared for shipment.
We've been passing a few more emails back and forth with Ulisses Spiele to iron out some details before it all begins. Once again, the speed of shipping is really an unknown at this point, but we are confident in our partners abilities. We'll pass on more information when we have a better idea of the timeline. For now, we know the pledges are in good hands.
Quick update. Ulisses is making great progress on shipping! The balance of the Captain level pledges will be shipping out today. Yesterday around 300 were shipped and today another 500 will go.
So that was Thursday and Friday last week. I wonder if EU peeps will start seeing their Captain level pledges show up as of today?
From the KS comments it is rather hard to say. Some people claim they had an SMS from the courier but as far as I can tell, nobody has received tracking / notification via email.
Not sure how it works with couriers in Europe, but in the US, if you had a profile set up with UPS, you get email update whenever anyone ships something to your address.
I have a similar set up with fedex as well. So there are sometimes ways to get tracking and confirmation information even if the shipper does nothing extra to notify you.
Has anyone received missing parts? My wave 1 and wave 2 came almost simultaneously, but whoever packed it seemed to have forgotten that I pledge for both Captain and Apprentice levels halfway through, and I'm missing almost 100 monsters...
Damn. My Captain pledge + add-ons arrived.. but at the wrong address. Now it is like Schrodinger's cat. My pledge simultaneously exists and is correct, exists and is incorrect.. and does not exist at all. For all I know, they shipped me a big empty box.
mercs@mercsminis.com has always worked for me. Don't expect an immediate turn around, though, since there seems to be only one person responding to mail sent to that address.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I used the same email, a bit more than a week ago, I guess I will wait.
If you've been waiting that long, you should probably contact them again. Nikki has been quite accommodating with all my requests and issues, but she seems to be the lone CS person at Megacon. A polite reminder would probably help.
Hi, just in case anyone's interested, I've got the myth captain pledge with the core game box painted (link), which I'm interested in trading or selling- ideally together; possibly separate (ex: painted core or everything but the core). PM if interested...
I got a reply, and a shipment of missing items, and then a smaller, much faster shipment of items missing from that shipment along with a hand-written apology on the packing list. That being said, I understand that I am very much the exception here.
News on the Myth: Shores of Kanas (I'm not sure how they spell Kanas yet) expansion KS in March skip to 30m39 if the video doesn't. Possibly 2 expansions
Each Expansion contains
New Hero
New Monsters
Quests
New Monster type - Commanders
Journey Man Hero cards - more advanced versions of the original heroes
Looks like they are going for an Egyptian style
They probably should have waited to get Recon out the door, this will be very much a wait and see for me the offer will have to be really good for me to back again. I really liked the sculpts and design of Myth but do I need to add to the ever growing box of minis as the game itself has remained unplayed to date.
I'm a sucker for Egyptian themed stuff as well, especially when it isn't all dead already.
I've been pretty content with Myth as a product overall, so I'll probably throw down and back this one as well.
Hopefully we get new figures to go with the Journeymen classes- which if I remember, were supposed to be two separate branches for each class to choose from.
Alpharius wrote: I've always love the look and feel of Egyptian mythology, so against better judgement here...I'm tempted!
I've always loved the look and feel of Egyptian Mythology, but going with how poorly conceived the game was, I'm fighting the urge to salvage the restic and paint up some fun egyptian models, because it'll remind me of the smug christianity and bad rules design even if the pieces are nice and I use them in a different set of rules.
I will agree that I'd like the in your face religious aspects toned down a little. Or a lot.
Give me a fictitious faith like every other fantasy game, and we'll be all even steven.
I wonder if we'll get some missionaries or religious leaders with Recon? I bet we will! (Not as cool as having a janitor figure though. That dude's gonna get a workout in a lot of games)
Not sure why the commander has a bird head. Ought to stick completely to jackals, and have the birds as separate enemy type.
Gives me hope we'll see some cobras or Sobek/ Sebek themed crocodilians!
I don't think the game itself poorly received but the rules were, though there is obviously a connection, but they worked on getting that cleared up. Once things were worked out people have had a much better go of Myth.
Other than personal thanks I don't recall much religion in the game. The only really religious element is the Cleric character and a priest NPC.
I'm all for second chances and if the minis turn out like the artwork I might be tempted anyway but I'd quite like to see how Recon turns out first to see if they learned from the Myth KS, by KS no. 3 they should be well and truly hitting their stride.
Ahtman wrote: I don't think the game itself poorly received but the rules were, though there is obviously a connection, but they worked on getting that cleared up. Once things were worked out people have had a much better go of Myth.
Other than personal thanks I don't recall much religion in the game. The only really religious element is the Cleric character and a priest NPC.
The thanks section was pretty infuriating to me as an atheist. I'm fine with other people and their views, but don't like my face getting rubbed in it, and over the course of playing the game with three separate groups (including some christians, yes), every time someone would look in the back while waiting for something or other to happen or browsing interactions, and had a similarly strong reaction ranging from "coming on too strong" to offended like I was. And then yeah, a priest character and 2 priest NPCs plus a whole bunch of other stuff, in light of the thanks section, got a really unpleasant vibe that made me dubious.
Then, the mix of terrible rulebook, and once that was clarified boring and easily gamed rules with really easily outfoxed AI and holes in the rules you could drive a truck through (the amount of things still requiring player assumptions is significant). It was like they wanted their build-your-own adventure fantasy without the competition (opponent or AI) to prove a challenge/give replay value (or even sense of accomplishment) and without the narrative strength to make it a light RPG.
So, even if they made a game worth a damn, I ultimately came to the conclusion that wouldn't want to give my money to people with such a high/privileged view of themselves.
The rulebook issue I can understand, the high stick they seem to be on, I can definitely understand (pity they seem such nice guys when I spoke to them face to face a couple of years ago).
The "Christianity" comment sorry, I really cannot understand, the religious theme in the game is so vague one cannot call it a Christianity indoctrination/ enforcement with a straight face, I am deeply sorry but by your example everybody should be offended because their religion (or lack of it) if represented/ not represented in the game.
Religion is a staple of the fantasy genre encountered in most fantasy related products be it novels, comics, films or games because it had a strong influence at the period the fantasy genre draws inspiration from, been offended for it been there sounds at the very least odd to me.
Sining wrote: Did they fix everything with the original rules? I still don't know how a spriggan works and I don't think they faqed that. Same with all the traps
Well, they FAQed a lot of ambiguous stuff and re-explained the rules so you know how to play. We still find ourselves going 'meh, that trap sucks' or 'this quest makes no sense' and just doing something else.
The quest system is still pretty awful, the AI is pretty awful and you don't have enough models to play the game with the base set. The base set is an incomplete game. And to have a 'complete game' you need at least 3 sets of minions, each double in size to even have the basic variety to play a basic game.
My major problem with Myth is it has become apparent that it is designed around blatant 'mini sprawl' For both gameplay and expansion packs. The amount of minis in play at any given time has no valid reason to be so high and it makes you need 30 minions per race just to have a complete spawn point. And the only way to get any variety is to buy different minions. While these new minions look 'cool' needing to buy 30 minions to add a single spawn point and some dumpy AI to just have pointless tokens which are way too numerous and die way to easy... really kills the gameplay.
The has no appeal... every other game out there does everything better. You have to be really all about Myth to choke it down, even if the 'fixed' rules. This KS was the one which taught me to never back a game where the rules are not complete at the time of backing. Megacon doesn't know how to make good games... I am not going to do the 'fool me 4 or more times, shame on me' that companies like mantic tend to get from backers.
PsychoticStorm wrote: The rulebook issue I can understand, the high stick they seem to be on, I can definitely understand (pity they seem such nice guys when I spoke to them face to face a couple of years ago).
The "Christianity" comment sorry, I really cannot understand, the religious theme in the game is so vague one cannot call it a Christianity indoctrination/ enforcement with a straight face, I am deeply sorry but by your example everybody should be offended because their religion (or lack of it) if represented/ not represented in the game.
Religion is a staple of the fantasy genre encountered in most fantasy related products be it novels, comics, films or games because it had a strong influence at the period the fantasy genre draws inspiration from, been offended for it been there sounds at the very least odd to me.
Didn't say it was about indoctrination or enforcement. I said that no one in my circles liked the thankyous section, which negatively colored their view of the rest of the game by its tone.
I've played plenty of fanatics and crusaders and monks and inquisitors and whatnot that have been explicitly christian or obviously influenced by christianity and ranged from obvious evil to pretty positive, and haven't taken offense (probably not going to collect armies of things that irritate you by their presence)- the difference was just their presentation, but in this case presentation mattered a lot.
The thanks section was pretty infuriating to me as an atheist. I'm fine with other people and their views, but don't like my face getting rubbed in it, and over the course of playing the game with three separate groups (including some christians, yes), every time someone would look in the back while waiting for something or other to happen or browsing interactions, and had a similarly strong reaction ranging from "coming on too strong" to offended like I was. And then yeah, a priest character and 2 priest NPCs plus a whole bunch of other stuff, in light of the thanks section, got a really unpleasant vibe that made me dubious.
I had to pull out my rulebook because I've never even read the thanks section.
I have to say that, IMO, your offense is a bit much.
For those of you that don't have the rulebook handy, these are the TWO lines:
From Keith: "First, glory to God in the highest for this amazing opportunity."
and from Brian: "Christ is my savior and my faith in him makes me strong."
I really don't know what to say to you, quite frankly, if you're offended that, in their personal acknowledgement sections, they each offer a single short sentence thanking their faith. I fail to see how any of that is "rubbing it in your face." I hope you're similarly offended when any athlete thanks god, or any book dedication includes thanks to their particular deity. Seems like a lot of wasted energy, that, in being offended.
Anyways, I think it's a pretty massive leap to say that it's being pushed at all.
Never noticed that "thank you god" comment in the rule book. Read it and gave me a chuckle.
Don't think it is anything to get offended over,
But you are a bit right regarding their attitude. They don't take criticisms very well at all and get snarky if you mention anything you don't like regarding their products. Their fans have... had? a reputation for being worse.
Have not been to their forum in years since I stated their movement system makes it difficult to move miniatures around in tight quarters using terrain in their skirmish game MERCs
Got dog piled by their fans for that.
I feel a little bit better about myself afterwards saying the game was the diet soda of Infinity.
I have to agree with cincydooley, I really cannot find the personal acknowledgment section offensive, enforcive or setting the tone of the game at all.
I was really trying to find in the game something that could be even remotely along the accusation and couldn't find it, the end, often omitted, page of the book that really has no connection with the game, didn't even crossed my mind as been a thing that would make the game "offensive and indoctrinating Christianity to the players.
But you are a bit right regarding their attitude. They don't take criticisms very well at all and get snarky if you mention anything you don't like regarding their products. Their fans have... had? a reputation for being worse.
This, however, I think is an incredibly fair and real problem for them. Keith is a super nice guy, and Brian is nice too, but the latter is certainly insular about his rules and their clarity. Which, to me, is a really big shame because I think there are lots of clever and innovative things in MYTH. They were just poorly conveyed via the rules.
Big problem is the acceptance of the problem, I hope their Myth experience taught them some humility, or a least learned them the value of hearing other people.
Their Recon behavior was not that promising to be honest, but time and more experience especially form Myth week may have changed it.
I'm hoping that they'll sort out all these rules issues before MYTH 2 Kickstarts - because if they don't, I can't see myself, or many others, pledging again.
It would be nice if they got this out in PDF form ASAP.
Did the 'fan re-edit' of the rules ever get finished?
If the rules hadn't been such a steaming pile of feces it would have been much easier to forgive their "personal" religious statements. As it was it just added yet another indication of how little anything on the project was thought through - of course something like that is going to offend part of your customer base, just like the numerous typos, poor examples, missing rules, totally out of context quotes, etc., etc.
The rules actually are fine, it was the writing of them that was an issue as they were unclear and poorly explained, which has nothing to do with the "Thank You" page. It seems people are looking for any port in a storm to be upset even when there is already a perfectly good reason to be upset (the poor explanation and writing) that isn't enough and people want to attack the creators personal views as well.
I won't say that I was offended per se, but it was more than a little jarring to have two NPC priests, complete with collars and presumably King James Bibles just out of frame, included along with the ratmen and wizards and walking eyeball monsters.
I treated the rulebook as some sort of experimental literature that wasn't meant to be read front to back. I could have gotten a B if I'd written a paper on it in college.
JoshInJapan wrote: I won't say that I was offended per se, but it was more than a little jarring to have two NPC priests, complete with collars and presumably King James Bibles just out of frame
I forgot about them completely, so completely I feel I saw them today after you mentioned them for the first time. seem a bit out of place indeed, do they even have minis?
No, they just have a token that pops up in certain story missions, iirc.
I have yet to actually play (like many others, I expect), but the missions with allies are decidedly unappealing to me. Marcus the Ready and whatever the two priests are named are the stars of those, and the PCs are more like henchmen. It kind of flies in the face of what the game is presented as being about.
Alpharius wrote: I've always love the look and feel of Egyptian mythology, so against better judgement here...I'm tempted!
I've always loved the look and feel of Egyptian Mythology, but going with how poorly conceived the game was, I'm fighting the urge to salvage the restic and paint up some fun egyptian models, because it'll remind me of the smug christianity and bad rules design even if the pieces are nice and I use them in a different set of rules.
Wait.. so Myth turned out to by restic as well in the end?
For all my hating on the game and attitude, the minis were above-average for boardgame stuff and minus the base gaps I have no complaints on their quality. I agree that SDE is the closest comparison. Wish I had enjoyed the game enough to play all those minis I painted :/
For the record I did finally managed to get a reply from them a couple of weeks ago and they did send me the missing Ia along with a bonus clear brigand (unannounced).
First teaser is up for the follow up KS campaign. Interested to see where this is going,...... word has been one desert/egyptian themed box, and one Acrtic/Norse themed box.
MYTH: Journeyman is said to include two progression paths for each of the base heroes (I'd guess split between the two boxes)
Week one teaser,...... KS scheduled to launch on March 9th!
Week 1: Enemies found in Shores of Kanis
Shores of Kanis is one of two expansions planned for MegaCon Games’ next Kickstarter, Myth: Journeyman. This week we are focusing on some of the content included in this expansion box.
The first enemy we will talk about is the Okis, a new minion.
Bred as guard dogs for the Anokis, they protect their masters unfailingly as they wreak havoc across the battlefield. The Okis are lightly armored and trained to hunt in packs with precision. If an Anokis is in the area, the Okis always move to its side, ready to give their life in the defense of their master.
Details:
• Monster-type: Okian
• Classification: Instinct, Armored, Minion
• Spawns in great numbers
The second enemy we will talk about is the Anokis, the Okian captain.
Powerful warriors created by the god-king Anunkara, all Anokis wield a pair of khopeshes blessed by Aluki priests. This blessing allows them to penetrate any defense, making them one of the deadliest warriors to patrol Kanis. When travelling with a pack of Okis, an Anokis warrior is near invincible until the Okis guarding him have been dealt with.
Details:
• Monster-type: Okian
• Classification: Intellect, Armored, Captain
• Large defense bonus from Okis
• Attacks have a chance to automatically hit
Next week we will delve into a new level of monsters that are going to be introduced in the world of Myth for all existing monster-types, Commanders.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Info from the recent Beasts of War weekender video:
Each box to contain:
- A New Hero
- New Monsters
- New Quests
- New Items
- Introduce a new monster type (Commanders)
- New Journeyman level cards for existing Heroes
They have a picture of what is either a new hero or perhaps one of the skill tree branches for the Soldier:
and a peek at the Commander and Boss for the Okian race:
Will the KS supply people with a rewritten rulebook for the base game, because as I understand it there's still no proper fixed printed version for the initial backers.
Also, will they be putting their rules PDF out there before printing so the BGG crowd can proofread it for them?
Azazelx wrote: Will the KS supply people with a rewritten rulebook for the base game, because as I understand it there's still no proper fixed printed version for the initial backers.
Also, will they be putting their rules PDF out there before printing so the BGG crowd can proofread it for them?
They said that the PDF would be out at the time of this next KS; and that physical prints as well as updates of the cards would be available "at cost" around the same time.
Time will only tell. They said that they are basically out of games and will need to order a new print run as well; and that would incorporate all the changes. I'd bet that a 2.0 box will be also available in the KS for people who missed the first run.
I would really love to have a Rulebook 2.0 PDF as it were, which incorporates everything, including card erratas.
And seriously, looking back at it now, I can't believe they had to change SO MUCH of the wording on the original cards. Really feels like they just half----ed the original rules and wordings.
Azazelx wrote: Will the KS supply people with a rewritten rulebook for the base game, because as I understand it there's still no proper fixed printed version for the initial backers.
Also, will they be putting their rules PDF out there before printing so the BGG crowd can proofread it for them?
They said that the PDF would be out at the time of this next KS; and that physical prints as well as updates of the cards would be available "at cost" around the same time.
Time will only tell. They said that they are basically out of games and will need to order a new print run as well; and that would incorporate all the changes. I'd bet that a 2.0 box will be also available in the KS for people who missed the first run.
fingers crossed that they get this all right
At cost? I was under the impression that backers had already paid for a proper printed copy of the rules/cards as part of their initial boxed-game pledge? Silly me.
It certainly makes them seem trustworthy enough to back again.
Ahtman wrote: Only Myth has had to errata things in the history of miniature gaming, and certainly no one has given them gak for it either.
Dude, the Myth rulebook doesn't need errata. It needs to be written. What we got wasn't rules that needed patches, but a collection of cocktail napkins on which rules concepts were written, with zero indication of how to connect them.
I'm a licensed attorney that's been hobby gaming for 20 plus years, and I couldn't figure out how to actually play the game.
that book was pretty,..... but very right,.... it sucked at its main purpose,.... teaching people to play the game.
I guess we will see how rewrite looks,... and exactly what will be done for original backers and purchasers of the game.
If the "cost" number is reasonable; I'm ok,...... based on them waiting to print in bulk books and cards for bulk discounts,.... the shipping should be more expensive than the items cost to produce, so that "cost" should be pretty low.
heck,... who am I kidding,...... I've already printed the updated cards,..... I guess I am a fanboi
Alpharius wrote: If they 'fix' the rules (for real!) and offer a printed version 'at cost' - well, I suppose I'll be in for more MYTH.
I liked the style of the miniatures the first time around, and the material was pretty good too.
I don't think we'll get quite as good a 'deal' in MYTH 2 as we did in MYTH 1 though...
Myth was one of the great buckets of minis style kickstarters though. Everybody learned a lot of valuable lessons from that time. We all learned that there really is no such thing as a free lunch, that three man companies are simply going to struggle to coordinate production of a dozen different products across continents, and that just because something is free doesn't mean it's worth the price.
Even treating it as a box of random minis, it was a nice buy (similar to bones in many ways, with more focus on mooks and less on PCs). The spiders in particular are a common enemy in RPGs around my club.
Thought it was pretty limiting mini-wise to be only set in Egypt, but they do kind of have some variety. A lot of these depends on if they go with boring giant version of whatever, or actually try and give us beastmen.
Dogs: Covered
Birds - eh
Cats - mebbe, wtfn, could be fun in an awful "should not be" sort of way
Snakes - Yes, need more serpentmen
Crocodiles - Yes!
Scorpions - pfft, more scorpions? Or scorpion men!
Beetles - finally, the most boring of bugs, in miniature form
Hippos - Sure Hippomen, really anything from the Robin Hood Disney cartoon is fine (btw why didn't Hiss get arms and legs? Quadruple amputee or what)
.. and watch it be 17 varieties of housecat, each with a slightly different egypt hat.
While the rulebook was really so bad it warranted a rewrite, "at cost" for a small company is not entirely unreasonable, it would be bad if they extinct themselves by sending everyone a free replacement for the rulebook and all cards.
It remains to be seen what at cost really means of course and I really hope they send us a pdf of everything before they print it so we can check and help them before they print another... interesting rulebook,
PsychoticStorm wrote: While the rulebook was really so bad it warranted a rewrite, "at cost" for a small company is not entirely unreasonable, it would be bad if they extinct themselves by sending everyone a free replacement for the rulebook and all cards.
It remains to be seen what at cost really means of course and I really hope they send us a pdf of everything before they print it so we can check and help them before they print another... interesting rulebook,
Frankly, I'm fine with a pdf and the option to buy a reasonably low cost rulebook.
This isn't a hardbound tome, it's the rules for a boardgame. I'm fine with making it work, but they probably want to help people actually play the game.
Or just allow BGG to take the models, boards, and tokens, and create a better game.
The changes to the cards are very welcome,.... The new keywords work well, and they have verified through their new mod for their forum and BGG that they will indeed release the new PDF shortly (about the time of the new. KS) and that they will accept input in it prior to going to print,... So hopefully it will be worthy of purchase,.... As I said the cards are a great improvement!
I'm hoping we see those Fireborn figures from one of those patches end up getting figures. They had some cool designs.
If the rulebook accomplishes what it's supposed to, making the game easier for everyone to learn how to play (rather than me having to pour over it to make sure I can explain every little nuance perfectly), I'm in.
Hell, I'm probably in anyways.
Wouldn't be suprised to see another bucket of minis, with the caveat that this time around they'll know how much they can handle in terms of work.
But you never know, you throw enough stuff at some of us, even those must ardent haters might still come around...
As the darkness grows across the land a new threat is revealed. Commanders are powerful enemies able to bend the essence of the darkness to their will. These foes strengthen enemies of their type to a new level of lethality.
Commanders are a new classification of enemy that is one tier stronger than captains. They typically enhance the power of minions and captains, while also providing a unique challenge for heroes to overcome.
In this way, existing monster-types can be strengthened as the heroes grow in power themselves. Moving forward, each new monster-type will have commanders.
Journeyman level heroes and commanders play an important role in Adventure Mode. If the heroes manage to capture and interrogate a commander it reveals the location of a boss while Adventuring.
The Commander included in Shores of Kanis is Aluki.
It is said that Aluki priests are the reason the darkness found a foothold in Kanis ages ago. As the legends go, they devised rituals to bring their god-king, Anunkara, into existence. Aluki priests rarely fight in battles. Their mere presence empowers the Okians to greater feats of strength. When Okians fall in battle, an Aluki priest harvests their souls, granting the priests greater power from Anunkara.
Details:
• Monster-type: Okian
• Classification: Intellect, Armored, Commander
• Numerous buffs that enhance Okis and Anokis enemies.
• Fate dice recipes that gain power when Okians die.
Next week we will delve into the new dual-wielding mechanic. This, coupled with the new items found in the journeyman expansions, greatly increases the hero’s potential for attacks.
Was surprised to see my missing captains waiting for me today.
Good on them for getting those out before the next campaign starts. Hopefully everyone else does as well.
(Skeletons arrived with my original order, so I'm going to guess everyone else gets there's along with the captains.)
On topic, I'm curious how you go about capturing those commanders.
Makes me wonder if there will be a separate mechanic/ roll for that. I can see that being implemented into all sorts of quests.
Yeah, that will be interesting. My guess is that you have to do so much damage, then perform a NCA roll, maybe a courage check? Nah,.... More likely a specific roll, like for disarming traps.
Could be a bit like the interrogation mechanic that the described for Recon. I really like that they will add this in for the existing monster types and that it will scale up the difficulty.
Not sure if "Adventure Mode" is a whole new thing, or if they are just distinguishing from Slaughterfield?
The last of the missing figures should be going out this week. Most of you have already received them. But if you haven't received them yet, Jack Burton and I want you to know they are in the mail.
2nd Edition Rules
We used your feedback, took a hard look at what we had versus what we intended (and what we want to do...see below), chucked our egos to the back seat, and after extensive collaboration and copious amounts of blind testing we very pleased to reveal the 2nd edition of the Myth rule book. Adam Sadler has done an amazing job with his work on this rule book, as well as his work on the updated hero cards. It has been a long process, but we feel this 2nd edition rule book is ready to present to the community.
Please visit our forums to post any feedback you have. The fans have been a major contributor to making this the best it can be, and we hope this continues into the future of Myth.
This Monday, March 9th, at noon EST the Myth: Journeyman Kickstarter begins. There is a ton of content and a lot minis just like the first. Through the expansions we introduce the Journeyman Hero branches, two brand new Heroes, new Minions, new Captains, a brand new classification of monster (Commanders), new mini-bosses, new Bosses, new items, new mechanics, and new locations. Furthermore, each pledge level receives the updated rules linked above, updated Novice Hero cards (from the patches available on the website), and the new trap deck.
Additionally, as promised there is a level for those backers who only want to replace their base game of Myth with officially printed materials. It is priced slightly below cost.
We'll put out another update on Monday with a link you can click if you are interested. We hope you are...it is going to be a fun ride.
So... don't currently have the time or energy to look through it ATM, but-- is it just clarification, or did they actually improve the mechanics, too? (Mostly talking about huge assumptions in a lot of cases and really predictable/therefore abusable and boring AI.)
I wonder what that new guy on the Warrens box is supposed to be.
Fingers crossed for new figures of all the journeymen classes. If I get 2 new rat heroes as well as 2 new mongoose sculpts, I'll be a happy camper.
Curious about this new trap deck. Maybe it's got all the current ones, or new ones that are a bit more manageable/ survivable?
Kind of surprised at the Warrens being a location, and a set of monsters we've already seen.
Then again, considering how much stuff was created from the first campaign, I have a feeling we'll be seeing at least 2 or 3 new monster families when this thing wraps up.
spiralingcadaver wrote: So... don't currently have the time or energy to look through it ATM, but-- is it just clarification, or did they actually improve the mechanics, too? (Mostly talking about huge assumptions in a lot of cases and really predictable/therefore abusable and boring AI.)
I took a quick look, and so far the rules are a lot clearer, in that they actually explain how to play the game. I'm not sure if the mechanics themselves have improved.
I have read through it, and it is much more concise, and the rules actually explain how to play the game. I am tempted to bring out my Captain's pledge and have a game this weekend.
It feels like the KS was just delivered as it was non-functional without new rules... Talk about 'late delivery'. I am unsure I am willing to give them any more money tho, especially with so many other better game developers and models being released in march.
The new rules are not really new rules for the most part,..... In that the game play is much the same,... Although there are a few changes to the way "adventure mode" verses "Story mode" will work,... And that is being incorporated into the expansions.
The book is shorter, has much of the fluff removed,... And fills in the many gaps that were in the old book; but the basics have not changed (so I hope people are not expecting a wholly different game). In my opinion, the game works very well out of the box, though admittedly hard to put everything together with how the first RB was structured.
They are still accepting feedback on the new RB and will be able to make changes for months and months prior to the second printing.
I'll be giving some feedback on some things that I'd like to see polished a bit still as well.
Well, that's too bad. The slog through the 1st draft rulebook and all the rule ambiguities certainly gave me a less charitable outlook on the game, but at the end of the day, even after fighting through it, I felt that the actual meat of the game was not very dynamic. Sorry to hear that it sounds like they're not working on a new edition and just a more complete version of what we've got.
Just downloaded them now. I'm hoping I don't have to go over it as much as the previous rulebook.
I ended up treating the v1 rulebook like a really difficult Modernist novel. It took me a few reads, but eventually I teased out the meaning. That's not a very good endorsement of the writing, I guess.
I'll be holding off on the next KS, as I haven't finished all the stuff from the first one, much less played...
spiralingcadaver wrote: Well, that's too bad. The slog through the 1st draft rulebook and all the rule ambiguities certainly gave me a less charitable outlook on the game, but at the end of the day, even after fighting through it, I felt that the actual meat of the game was not very dynamic. Sorry to hear that it sounds like they're not working on a new edition and just a more complete version of what we've got.
The core of the game is the decision mechanic of hand management and groups synergy. It will not be drastically changed; but there are some better examples for LOS and monster movement AI decisions.
The changes to the game flow are mostly coming from the expansion material that will launch next week; but much of it is mentioned in the 2.0 rule book. Again; the big difference in a seriously structured Story/module mode,... And even some more structure to the free form mode with mechanics for finding a boss as apposed to just deciding that you would encounter him.
Check out this sneak peak video just put up today:
-Apparently if I'm not having fun, it's because I'm playing wrong.
-If it's confusing, house-rule it, don't spend time reading the rules.
-Things are better organized.
-Still lots of situation where they didn't account for likely events, such as minimum and maximum modifier thresholds or if things chain.
-The AI is still just as easy to outsmart.
-Their thank-yous explain how the game was awesome but needed clarification, and they still wish to give glory to God, who needs glory for allowing them to make a board game, or something.
I believe that all of the details of how each hero plays as well as how special card interactions are handled are in a separate book that we are yet to see. (this might even include a revised card guide for each hero as well)
There is still much to tweak on this; but it is a big step in the right direction.
PS: Remember when Myth rewards first arrived and I wanted to buy some figures, and you said you'd sell them to me, and I sent you a PM, and you never PMed me a counter offer, refusal or agreement, so I PMed you again a couple weeks later, and then never heard anything about it ever again? Maybe minis only pledges are easier.
PS: Remember when Myth rewards first arrived and I wanted to buy some figures, and you said you'd sell them to me, and I sent you a PM, and you never PMed me a counter offer, refusal or agreement, so I PMed you again a couple weeks later, and then never heard anything about it ever again? Maybe minis only pledges are easier.
Honestly, I don't.
Though to be fair, I'm pretty sure that was around the time I got baned for 2 months, so....there's that.
Which is even funnier in retrospect, because they sent me extra multiples of literally everything. I have more MYTH models than I know what to do with.
PS: Remember when Myth rewards first arrived and I wanted to buy some figures, and you said you'd sell them to me, and I sent you a PM, and you never PMed me a counter offer, refusal or agreement, so I PMed you again a couple weeks later, and then never heard anything about it ever again? Maybe minis only pledges are easier.
Honestly, I don't.
Though to be fair, I'm pretty sure that was around the time I got baned for 2 months, so....there's that.
Which is even funnier in retrospect, because they sent me extra multiples of literally everything. I have more MYTH models than I know what to do with.
That explanation certainly covers all the facts... Are you interested in trading or selling the minis?
PS: Remember when Myth rewards first arrived and I wanted to buy some figures, and you said you'd sell them to me, and I sent you a PM, and you never PMed me a counter offer, refusal or agreement, so I PMed you again a couple weeks later, and then never heard anything about it ever again? Maybe minis only pledges are easier.
Honestly, I don't.
Though to be fair, I'm pretty sure that was around the time I got baned for 2 months, so....there's that.
Which is even funnier in retrospect, because they sent me extra multiples of literally everything. I have more MYTH models than I know what to do with.
That explanation certainly covers all the facts... Are you interested in trading or selling the minis?
\
Haha, sure!
Honestly, I'd be happy to send them to you if you just cover shipping. What all are you looking for? Shoot me a PM?
If they are truly going to have updated decks for every class, I guess at that point I could actually run 2 of the same class using these new cards as well as the original (and also being able to have both the light and dark versions of the journeymen when they drop).
Kind of cool.
I expect a pretty ridiculous pile of stuff when this finishes.
The box for the clockworks makes me wonder if they'll do another expansion bundle when this wraps up. That was a pretty crazy deal on Recon.
Going to have to figure out these quest and item expansions. They list having 3 different ones available. I want to say we had 2 of each available last time?
While the minis look great... Is anyone else on Card overload? The game already has so many cards and decks, and now we are going to get hundreds more cards?
It is like a Pen and paper RPG which instead of having a hardbound manual just put everything on cards. If you need that many rules, then just make a book damn it!
If they had a Minis only pledge, I might be interested. I have to say, the tile sets I got last time are pretty good, and work well for other RPGs so minis and tilesets might be 'worth it'.
Alpharius wrote: Curious about the add-ons...are they all 'new' things?
What is old:
*Card Sleeves for old heroes
*Bag is old
*Keesi and org, and Razorfiend were EXCLUSIVES from the first KS.
What looks NEW:
*Card Sleeves for new heroes
*Colored dice is new.
*In the first KS, there was only Treasure Expansion and quest Expansion 1. So I assume there are 2 more quest and treasure which are new.
*Clear Female Brigand I haven't seen. I know Clear Ratman Brigand was an exclusive at conventions.
*6x6 migth be new... I can't tell.
*Golden Gear already is up and new.
The second Myth KS is about to get pretty interesting,..... check out the link to the other thread that DaveC posted above; or head over to the KS page:
