I already read Faith and Fire + Hammer and Anvil which, well, are the only two books with Sisters of Battle in. Since its summer I got free time on my hands and I am going to read the Horus Heresy books on loan from a friend but wondered if there was any good sisters of battle fan fiction. I got links to some decent Dark Eldar fanfic recently so wondered if there was anything similar for the sisters of battle?
Basically anything with story, action, character and finished.
I would... be very, very careful about SoB fan-fiction. Most of it is... soul-crushingly terrible. Most of it is also extremely NSFW. It's not even SFNFS (Safe for Nuclear Fallout Shelters).
Psienesis wrote: I would... be very, very careful about SoB fan-fiction. Most of it is... soul-crushingly terrible. Most of it is also extremely NSFW. It's not even SFNFS (Safe for Nuclear Fallout Shelters).
Huh, figured that if you could find good Dark Eldar fan fiction that finding good SoB fan fic would be a dawdle.
Psienesis wrote: No... just... even the SOB fan-art often veers into the incredibly disgusting.
ah well.
I think the author of the first two said that he had an idea for a third book some time ago. I guess if another army gets released and they want sisters as the heroes it will probably be released in junction with that. This was the case with Hammer and Anvil tying in to the Necron release.
I don't know why but I'd like to see Battle Sisters vs Orks. Although it will probably be chaos again rather than another xenos race. Maybe he'll surprise us with an Imperial faction war.
MWHistorian also wrote a (in my opinion) very good SoB fanfic. Has plenty of story, action, and character. Captures the characterisation of the Sisters well too.
Note that while the first story is finished, the second one (which is a continuation to the first) isn't.
Totalwar1402 wrote: I don't know why but I'd like to see Battle Sisters vs Orks.
I think it'd be a good match-up. Each has their own brand of fanaticism, it would be a fun contrast.
Though if Swallow does write another book, I think I'd like to see Sisters vs. Chaos more. They're just such fitting enemies.
Troike wrote: MWHistorian also wrote a (in my opinion) very good SoB fanfic. Has plenty of story, action, and character. Captures the characterisation of the Sisters well too.
Note that while the first story is finished, the second one (which is a continuation to the first) isn't.
Totalwar1402 wrote: I don't know why but I'd like to see Battle Sisters vs Orks.
I think it'd be a good match-up. Each has their own brand of fanaticism, it would be a fun contrast.
Though if Swallow does write another book, I think I'd like to see Sisters vs. Chaos more. They're just such fitting enemies.
Yeah chaos is likely. I suppose last time it was psykers and really about chaos.
Also I am pretty convinced that the series ends with one of the two main characters becoming a Living Saint. Probably Miriya considering her being in that Golden Throne mock up aura/power and having done several acts of faith. Hell, I am amazed the Inquisition haven't shot her or dissected her because of that.
I write fanfiction about my Sisters of Battle army, but it goes against the established WH40k theme and fluff so, SO much that it's probably not suitable for most WH40k fans. It's not XXX-rated, just different because I didn't want my Sisters of Battle to be so cruel and intolerant.
The gist of that is that through some alien technology used to revive them after having fallen in battle, their indoctrination was partially broken. They still worship the Emperor as their god and stuff, they just don't think that people need to die for not worshipping him or automatically for being xenos (though ones like Orks, Dark Eldar, Tyranids, Necrons, and so forth who have no interest in playing nice still get to die). Some of them, through sheer force of will, resisted the mind-altering effects of the technology and started operating as saboteurs, culminating in a couple of large-scale attacks where they led their followers in sabotaging the planet's engines that let it move through space at faster-than-light speed (to avoid the Imperium's wrath), dropping the planet right into the middle of an ongoing three-sided battle between Imperial, Ork, and Chaos space navies and crippling the planet's important factories and military headquarters, and even using a fuel-air grenade in the turned Sororitas' armory while they were grabbing equipment to respond to the explosions going off all over the planet.
Psienesis wrote: No... just... even the SOB fan-art often veers into the incredibly disgusting.
I just google'd "Sisters of Battle fanfiction"
If it exists, there is porn of it. Especially if it comes in a female variety. No, the Internet doesn't care that they're Warrior-Nuns who don't ever have sex and would think nothing of putting a bolt round into the head of anyone who tried something, probably including Inquisitors and High Lords of Terra.
Pouncey wrote: No, the Internet doesn't care that they're Warrior-Nuns who don't ever have sex and would think nothing of putting a bolt round into the head of anyone who tried something, probably including Inquisitors and High Lords of Terra.
That is not true. It makes the internet even more eager to do porn of it .
Bad, bad internet! No cookie for you.
Pouncey wrote:No, the Internet doesn't care that they're Warrior-Nuns who don't ever have sex and would think nothing of putting a bolt round into the head of anyone who tried something, probably including Inquisitors and High Lords of Terra.
That is not true. It makes the internet even more eager to do porn of it .
Bad, bad internet! No cookie for you.
That, and of course the special allure of "defiling the pure". In some cases (depending on the contents of the image .. I have seen things), it might also be a subliminal desire to put these girls "in their place" for daring to defy conventional gender roles, and/or a general attraction towards strong, powerful women who can still be defeated or even defeat someone else to use their body - see various folklore about amazon mating myths, or stories about female warriors only marrying the men who can defeat them in duel. *adjusts glasses*
More than likely, SoB fan art as a whole is a collection of different yet partially overlapping fetishes and interests. You'll find this stuff for every single female heroine that has ever been conceived. I try to think of it as being harmless, though the sheer volume of images is a bit worrying in that at times it makes me think that the sexualised depiction is more popular than the original concept.
On the upside, at least some of the pictures that exist are very cool.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Basically, you will not find worse on 1d4chan.
I haven't clicked it yet (still at work), but that I find hard to believe.
Totalwar1402: Have you checked out the "Daemonifuge" graphic novel series, or the "Daemonblood" short story from Ben Counter? Not fan fiction, but I'm assuming you might also be interested in further BL stories about the Sisters aside from the ones written by James Swallow. Personally, I enjoyed them both, and they do have some badass scenes. Daemonifuge is also fairly impressive in terms of visuals; Grimdark Greyscale fits quite nicely to the general atmosphere of 40k as a setting.
Well, there is some NSFW stuff on the Daughters group, but there's also a lot of pretty artwork, and if you're not logged into DevArt, you can't see the crap.
It's not fan-fiction, but if you can find some of the supplements to Fantasy Flight Games "Dark Heresy" RPG, namely "The Inquisitor's Handbook" or "Blood of Martyrs", there's a fair bit of fluff in them about the Sisters. Blood of Martyrs in particular is literally all about the Ecclesiarchy, and goes into detail about the workings of the Church and it's various branches.
Pouncey wrote: I clicked the link but there was no image. It said my Mature Content Filter was on or something.
You were saved. If you want to know what this is about without deactivating the filter, the description text is “Sisters who live in the Chapel of Soft Whispers love their statue of The Emperor and often visit it for prayers, meditations and other activities...”, and the other activity depicted is of course of sexual nature…
Lynata wrote: You'll find this stuff for every single female heroine that has ever been conceived.
Not going to check on my favorite characters!
Lynata wrote: though the sheer volume of images is a bit worrying in that at times it makes me think that the sexualised depiction is more popular than the original concept.
Do you mean Shadowsun?
Lynata wrote: I haven't clicked it yet (still at work), but that I find hard to believe.
Let me check the 1d4chan page on Sisters.
Okay, you will find only slightly worse on 1d4chan. That genestealer transformation
Troike wrote: MWHistorian also wrote a (in my opinion) very good SoB fanfic. Has plenty of story, action, and character. Captures the characterisation of the Sisters well too.
Note that while the first story is finished, the second one (which is a continuation to the first) isn't.
Totalwar1402 wrote: I don't know why but I'd like to see Battle Sisters vs Orks.
I think it'd be a good match-up. Each has their own brand of fanaticism, it would be a fun contrast.
Though if Swallow does write another book, I think I'd like to see Sisters vs. Chaos more. They're just such fitting enemies.
I'll finish it, but I have a deadline to finish a novel first.
But do give it a read! (It's on page 3 of the fan fiction section.)
GoonBandito wrote:It's not fan-fiction, but if you can find some of the supplements to Fantasy Flight Games "Dark Heresy" RPG, namely "The Inquisitor's Handbook" or "Blood of Martyrs", there's a fair bit of fluff in them about the Sisters. Blood of Martyrs in particular is literally all about the Ecclesiarchy, and goes into detail about the workings of the Church and it's various branches.
Though it should be mentioned that those books contradict each other as well as GW's own material, and generally don't portray Sisters as badass.
But don't get me started on that front.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Do you mean Shadowsun?
Not specifically! Though I can easily see this applying to her, too.
The funny thing is, by now even my own design for Sororitas Novices has found its way into a piece of Sisters Yuri. I kind of feel honoured.
Lynata wrote: Though I can easily see this applying to her, too.
Certainly do.
Some people might actually expect the actual model to only have armor on the lower legs and upper arms.
Lynata wrote: The funny thing is, by now even my own design for Sororitas Novices has found its way into a piece of Sisters Yuri. I kind of feel honoured.
Oh. Seriously. Novices. Did the picture include pedobear, or what?
Some NSFW Sisters-related art is not bad. I mean, this is a penitent order that spends a lot of time in self-castigation and mortification for sins both real and imagined.
And there's some NSFW art that is part-and-parcel to the Sisters, like the Repentia.
And then there's the NSFW art that has the Sisters doing things that are probably everyday normal activities for them that they'd think nothing of... but the voyeuristic point of view the art grants make it somewhat erotic in nature, I suppose.
GoonBandito wrote:It's not fan-fiction, but if you can find some of the supplements to Fantasy Flight Games "Dark Heresy" RPG, namely "The Inquisitor's Handbook" or "Blood of Martyrs", there's a fair bit of fluff in them about the Sisters. Blood of Martyrs in particular is literally all about the Ecclesiarchy, and goes into detail about the workings of the Church and it's various branches.
Though it should be mentioned that those books contradict each other as well as GW's own material, and generally don't portray Sisters as badass.
But don't get me started on that front.
That's because you're meant to roll up a Sororitas Player Character and make your own badass Battle Sister :p
Lynata wrote:Though it should be mentioned that those books contradict each other as well as GW's own material, and generally don't portray Sisters as badass.
But don't get me started on that front.
That's because you're meant to roll up a Sororitas Player Character and make your own badass Battle Sister :p
Then why don't Marines and Inquisitors get the same treatment?
Why the heck do Battle Sisters receive nerfed "civilian" equipment? I mean, come on! Civilian grade weapons?! What the feth?
Everything in those damn books exists to make it look like Sisters are inferior to their male counterparts, except the parts where they start shooting laser beams from their eyes like a bunch of heretic witches, and you can't tell me that is a good representation of the Sororitas as holy warrior-maidens.
I am not at all happy with the Sisters from FFG. Their AoF are freakin' Space-Magic, which I'm also not happy with especially as they have turned the Sisters into little more than buff-dispensers.
I guess it depends what you mean by NSFW. Yeah gruesomely mutilated bodies are not exactly SFW, and that is what a good depiction of the repentia is. But what we are talking about here is more of an explicitly sexual nature.
Lynata wrote:Though it should be mentioned that those books contradict each other as well as GW's own material, and generally don't portray Sisters as badass.
But don't get me started on that front.
That's because you're meant to roll up a Sororitas Player Character and make your own badass Battle Sister :p
Then why don't Marines and Inquisitors get the same treatment?
Why the heck do Battle Sisters receive nerfed "civilian" equipment? I mean, come on! Civilian grade weapons?! What the feth?
Everything in those damn books exists to make it look like Sisters are inferior to their male counterparts, except the parts where they start shooting laser beams from their eyes like a bunch of heretic witches, and you can't tell me that is a good representation of the Sororitas as holy warrior-maidens.
Huh? Civilian grade? They get what is functionally "Light Power Armour" in the game system, except the chest piece has AP8 (So 7 on Head, Arms and Legs and 8 on the Body). Regular/Legion Power Armour is AP8 all round. That seems to be valid to me, as they're not quite at the Astartes level. Light Power Armour, if you go by the later Rogue Trader/Black Crusade iterations, also has the benefit of not making you 'Hulking' size (enemies get +10 BS to hit you) like regular Power Armour does for non-space marines. The Godwyn-De'az Pattern Bolter also has the same stats as a normal Boltgun, except it has the Reliable quality as well (so only jams on a roll of 100). That hardly screams Civilian equipment to me - unless you're talking about the Starting Package for the Novice Sister in The Inquisitors Handbook where you start off with a laspistol and carapace armour. But you need to keep in mind that this is an RPG, which means you need to allow for character progression. I can't imagine why a GM would not let you receive proper Sororitas equipment when you leveled up to a Sister Militant rank....
As for the Faith system, I always thought they were really great implementations. Almost all of them are about testing against the Character's Willpower or Fellowship in order to do stuff like buffs against Fear, buff damage resistance, ward against Demons/Warp creatures, various healing/recovery effects or buffing the strength of attacks with "Righteous Power". That sounds pretty close imo to what the Act of Faith or War Hymn abilities do in tabletop, just expanded on. However, yes, there is that one (out of the many) Faith Power that is an AoE energy attack. You are not forced to take it - you don't even have to take any Faith powers, since you still need to buy them with XP. The Faith 'powers' aren't even specifically intended for Sororitas characters anyway, and besides they cost of using them is pretty high since you need to use your Fate Points to activate them. Saying they 'go around shooting laser beams from their eyes like witches' is a ridiculous over-exaggeration.
GoonBandito wrote: They get what is functionally "Light Power Armour" in the game system, except the chest piece has AP8 (So 7 on Head, Arms and Legs and 8 on the Body). Regular/Legion Power Armour is AP8 all round. That seems to be valid to me, as they're not quite at the Astartes level.
Well, some Sisters codices (I do not remember which one atm) explicitly said the Sisters power armor provide the same level of protection as the Astartes power armor, and the differences are on life-support system and gadgets like that.
GoonBandito wrote: They get what is functionally "Light Power Armour" in the game system, except the chest piece has AP8 (So 7 on Head, Arms and Legs and 8 on the Body). Regular/Legion Power Armour is AP8 all round. That seems to be valid to me, as they're not quite at the Astartes level.
Well, some Sisters codices (I do not remember which one atm) explicitly said the Sisters power armor provide the same level of protection as the Astartes power armor, and the differences are on life-support system and gadgets like that.
For the purposes of the RPG game systems, it's a difference of 1AP on the head, arms and legs, same AP on the body and you aren't considered Hulking. That's a fair tradeoff to me in terms of gameplay. There's also plenty of ways to increase the AP. "Best Craftsmanship" on any piece of armour makes it +1AP. There's plenty of fluff backing for a GM to hand out Best Craftsmanship armour to a Sororitas, namely that the Ecclesiarchy is rich as feth and can easily afford to equip the Sisters like that.
They literally use the words "civilian grade" to describe the Godwyn De'az bolter. Explain that.
So tell me, how does "for the purposes of the RPG Game system" actually justify nerfing the Sororitas power armour, which, by fluff, offers the same protection as Astartes power armour?
By your logic, Sororitas armour should be light power armour with Best Craftsmanship automatically.
Besides, those books also say that there are more Sisters in the Calixis sector than there are in the entire rest of the Imperium.
The FFG books apparently also say that the Sisters can fight "even" renegade IG and Orks. Meanwhile, in the studio fluff, Sisters are noted as purging SM Chapters. I think that says it all on the disparity between codex Sisters and FFG Sisters.
Also, the Witch Hunters codex calls the Godwyn De'az bolter one of the best pattern bolters that is produced. To call it "civilian grade" is a bit silly, really.
Totalwar1402 wrote: Also I am pretty convinced that the series ends with one of the two main characters becoming a Living Saint.
Eh. I'd rather that din't happen. I prefer the stufio fluff, wherein "Living Saint" is just a title for people that have been declared Saints whilst alive, and Celestine is the only magical angel woman going around.
Still, pretty much any additional SoB stories from James Swallow would be cool. He writes them quite well.
Psienesis wrote:Some NSFW Sisters-related art is not bad. I mean, this is a penitent order that spends a lot of time in self-castigation and mortification for sins both real and imagined.
And there's some NSFW art that is part-and-parcel to the Sisters, like the Repentia.
And then there's the NSFW art that has the Sisters doing things that are probably everyday normal activities for them that they'd think nothing of... but the voyeuristic point of view the art grants make it somewhat erotic in nature, I suppose.
And then there's... everything else.
Well said.
I admit, some of the stuff I'd consider "normal" for Sisters is a guilty pleasure of mine.
Unfortunately, most of the NSFW art does not fall into this category.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:I guess it depends what you mean by NSFW. Yeah gruesomely mutilated bodies are not exactly SFW, and that is what a good depiction of the repentia is. But what we are talking about here is more of an explicitly sexual nature.
Ah, but what is sexual and what isn't also is a matter of perspective. A brutal whipping administered by a Repentia Mistress is also "a good depiction" in that it is entirely accurate - but that doesn't mean that, on the interwebs, this could not be someone's fetish. Or even just a lone Sister standing "naked vigil on cold stone floors" (3E Rulebook fluff) showing off her sixpack. Or two naked Sisters sparring with sharp, bladed weapons as a way of training. The list goes on!
Furyou Miko wrote:Then why don't Marines and Inquisitors get the same treatment?
To be fair, Inquisitors do get the same treatment as well, Civilian Terminator armour and everything.
It's just Space Marines that receive this ridiculous push, and I have a suspicion the origin of this gap isn't dislike for the Sisters, but rather a hard-on for Marines and, more importantly, the game's broken Characteristics mechanics.
It is entirely possible to have Space Marines in that game that, barring "Righteous Fury" critical hits, become invulnerable to bolter salvos, and given that CSM are an enemy you can fight in their Deathwatch game, the designers opted to make all Marine guns better in order to overcome the stacking resistance of Hitpoints+Armour+Toughness. People's naked skin being more protective than the armour they wear (tellingly, this does not only apply to Marines!) has long since been one of my largest criticisms I have against that system.
So instead of fixing the game's injury mechanics, they opted to sacrifice consistency and just make Space Marines even better than they'd be already. If this solution had been kept solely to Deathwatch (where you play only Marines), it would not have been too bad, but with the Grey Knights this has now crept into Dark Heresy as well.
GoonBandito wrote:Huh? Civilian grade? They get what is functionally "Light Power Armour" in the game system, except the chest piece has AP8 (So 7 on Head, Arms and Legs and 8 on the Body). Regular/Legion Power Armour is AP8 all round. That seems to be valid to me, as they're not quite at the Astartes level. Light Power Armour, if you go by the later Rogue Trader/Black Crusade iterations, also has the benefit of not making you 'Hulking' size (enemies get +10 BS to hit you) like regular Power Armour does for non-space marines. The Godwyn-De'az Pattern Bolter also has the same stats as a normal Boltgun, except it has the Reliable quality as well (so only jams on a roll of 100). That hardly screams Civilian equipment to me - unless you're talking about the Starting Package for the Novice Sister in The Inquisitors Handbook where you start off with a laspistol and carapace armour. But you need to keep in mind that this is an RPG, which means you need to allow for character progression. I can't imagine why a GM would not let you receive proper Sororitas equipment when you leveled up to a Sister Militant rank....
The "Civilian grade" is an old running gag that goes back to the Dark Heresy core rulebook that says anything but the stuff wielded by Space Marines is "civilian grade", which is a bit silly - and directly contradicting the original fluff.
I'm not quite sure why you think SoB should have gear that is "not quite at the Astartes level", but it may be worth pointing out that in Games Workshop's own d100 game (called Inquisitor), Marine weapons and armour operate on the same level as that of Sisters and Inquisitors, reflecting Codex fluff, 40kTT rules, and common sense (PA carries itself, why should it be less protective for non-Astartes?).
Though it is less the armour, but more the weapons with which I've got a personal beef. Marine bolters (and pretty much everything else) do +25% damage compared to everyone elses, including Sisters' and Inquisitors. 25%! In this light, it sure seems that Sisters get "civilian grade" stuff.
It's also worth pointing out that the first iteration of Space Marines in the system - an NPC in the Dark Heresy adventure book Purge the Unclean, had power armour and weapons that were on the same level as that of other characters. Only after FFG took over did they boost Marine equipment for the purpose of the Deathwatch game, although as pointed out above there was a sort of mechanical need to do so (it was either this, or fixing the flawed Characteristics).
On a sidenote: FFG's implementation of the Black Carapace is also quite silly. Why exactly are bulky Space Marines harder to hit even when they don't move or are not aware of the attack?
GoonBandito wrote:As for the Faith system, I always thought they were really great implementations. Almost all of them are about testing against the Character's Willpower or Fellowship in order to do stuff like buffs against Fear, buff damage resistance, ward against Demons/Warp creatures, various healing/recovery effects or buffing the strength of attacks with "Righteous Power". That sounds pretty close imo to what the Act of Faith or War Hymn abilities do in tabletop, just expanded on. However, yes, there is that one (out of the many) Faith Power that is an AoE energy attack. You are not forced to take it - you don't even have to take any Faith powers, since you still need to buy them with XP.
In my opinion as an SoB fan, the Faith system in Blood of Martyrs sucks, and the one in Inquisitor's Handbook was miles better, even though that one was flawed as well.
BoM has clearly pushed the Sisters' abilities from ambiguous "miracles" (the Codex actually hints at Acts of Faith being nothing but willpower + training + coincidence + superstition) into obvious Space Magic, making them considerably less badass than in the source material. It also makes Space Marines look like fools for still not believing the Emperor is a god, even if his "priestesses" go around shooting beams of light out of their eyes.
I have been working on a version that is somewhat closer to GW's original material:
Spoiler:
(note that the list of starting Skills/Talents/Traits is balanced for a Deathwatch game, though - a version intended for use in DH would start at a notably lower level, close to the Inquisitor's Handbook Novice)
BoM also did away with the Inquisitor's Handbook's rather cool and fitting progression from Novice to various branches of the Sisterhood, and replaced it with a generic Battle Sister class and - almost an insult - boring variants of the Cleric and Adept careers for the Non-Militant Sisters.
In terms of fluff, Troike already mentioned the difference in combat potential portrayal, though since FFG took over Dark Heresy those books also started to contradict themselves. Inquisitor's Handbook says there are 50 Battle Sisters (newly arrived from elsewhere) in the Calixis Sector and actually makes this a plot hook by describing this as something to worry about for local nobility, none of whom have an idea as to why they came. That was cool.
Now, BoM has centuplicated these numbers, making Battle Sisters a common sight throughout the sector and letting them appear considerably less elite. Yawn.
It's not that BoM was all bad, but personally I liked the Inquisitor's Handbook a lot more. If it were up to me, I would want the career path and rules from IH, with the requisition system from BoM, and fluff from the Codex.
GoonBandito wrote:The Faith 'powers' aren't even specifically intended for Sororitas characters anyway
Which is just another slap in their face. Now they don't even get to keep their unique mechanic.
Troike wrote:Eh. I'd rather that din't happen. I prefer the stufio fluff, wherein "Living Saint" is just a title for people that have been declared Saints whilst alive, and Celestine is the only magical angel woman going around.
Still, pretty much any additional SoB stories from James Swallow would be cool. He writes them quite well.
Troike wrote: The FFG books apparently also say that the Sisters can fight "even" renegade IG and Orks. Meanwhile, in the studio fluff, Sisters are noted as purging SM Chapters. I think that says it all on the disparity between codex Sisters and FFG Sisters.
Arguably, renegade IG and orks can be harder to fight than SM chapters, though sheer numbers.
Lynata wrote: Ah, but what is sexual and what isn't also is a matter of perspective.
Inserting stuff into vagina is clearly sexual No, seriously, the poses themselves are usually enough to give out what is non-sexual nudity and what is softporn.
Lynata wrote: A brutal whipping administered by a Repentia Mistress is also "a good depiction" in that it is entirely accurate
Why are you referring to the worse thing ever introduced in the Sisters, the SM Mistress, as an example of something not sexual ?
Lynata wrote: Or even just a lone Sister standing "naked vigil on cold stone floors" (3E Rulebook fluff) showing off her sixpack.
If the sister is in a B&B pose, with the usual “attractive” body type, then no, I would definitely not call that an accurate description.
On the other hand, if it depicts a body scared by self-mutilations and battle injuries, in a non-lascivious pose… who am I kidding, nobody draws that kind of stuff anyway .
Lynata wrote: Or two naked Sisters sparring with sharp, bladed weapons as a way of training.
How is that an accurate description? Why would they do that? They do self-mutilation, but training with no protection is stupid. It basically means you have to practice doing only non-lethal, non-disabling moves. People train the other way, they wear protective garment and blunted weapons. That way, they can practice the most violent, dangerous move, those that they want to do against an actual opponent.
Totalwar1402 wrote: I already read Faith and Fire + Hammer and Anvil which, well, are the only two books with Sisters of Battle in. Since its summer I got free time on my hands and I am going to read the Horus Heresy books on loan from a friend but wondered if there was any good sisters of battle fan fiction. I got links to some decent Dark Eldar fanfic recently so wondered if there was anything similar for the sisters of battle?
Basically anything with story, action, character and finished.
1. Bolter B-Word Privileges: Ginevra begins her Novitiate, the hard way.
2. Ollanius Pius Requiem: Novice Ginevra encounters the Imperial Guard. There is singing.
3. Able Baker: Expect some sort of Inquisition.
4. The Beginning: Every Sister's story begins with tragedy... and paperwork.
5. Dancing with the Astartes: The finale, involving the galaxy's nicest Space Marine, a shopping trip, and permanent scarring. (This story)
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Why are you referring to the worse thing ever introduced in the Sisters, the SM Mistress, as an example of something not sexual ?
Not something sexual. Something that can be sexual or not depending on perspective. It's plain old flagellantism, and the concept of purification by pain has been part of Sisters fluff ever since 1st Edition Rogue Trader in 1987. It's the same as the two monks flogging each other in The Name of the Rose, except here it's two girls doing it. If this makes it more sexual than when two men are doing it, I'd say this is more a problem of contemporary society and the sexualisation of anything that has to do with women in general, rather than 40k fluff.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:If the sister is in a B&B pose, with the usual “attractive” body type, then no, I would definitely not call that an accurate description.
On the other hand, if it depicts a body scared by self-mutilations and battle injuries, in a non-lascivious pose… who am I kidding, nobody draws that kind of stuff anyway .
Some do, but I'll refrain from posting examples here out of fear for breaking some policy. But, basically, think of the various "naked people" statues from ancient Greece or Rome, or Leni Riefenstahl's "Triumph of the Will" propaganda movie for Nazi Germany and its glorification of the human (aryan) body, or that French Revolution drawing with the half-naked girl marching in the front. In these cases, what can make it sexy is the sheer purity of essence - an attractive body coupled with the specific absence of a sexualised pose. A naked archer readying her bow, a female athlete showcasing her muscles, ...
This stuff is far less common/popular than the smut, obviously, but it exists and some people think it is cool. And I could easily picture SoB artwork of this nature, though I've only ever seen two or three pieces approaching this elusive category.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:How is that an accurate description? Why would they do that? They do self-mutilation, but training with no protection is stupid. It basically means you have to practice doing only non-lethal, non-disabling moves. People train the other way, they wear protective garment and blunted weapons. That way, they can practice the most violent, dangerous move, those that they want to do against an actual opponent.
The training could be less about practicing non-lethal moves, but more about deflecting incoming attacks. You fail to parry, you're going to bleed. Think of it as an incentive. Harsh, but (imho) totally believable for the Sisterhood, given that apparently you start getting clobbered on the head with power maces in the Schola Progenium already.
Katana Tormark's face was so slick with sweat, her chocolate-brown skin looked oiled. She, too, wore a tengui saturated with perspiration, and her hair, cut close in wavy locks, glistened and clung to her scalp. Her nimble fingers quickly peeled off her do, and she dropped the body armor onto her helmet.
"Don't you understand, Toni?", she said, unself-consciously high-stepping out of her hakama, then letting the black trousers puddle on the floor with a whisper of fabric against wood. "As long as you keep practicing, you'll never know real fear. You don't play kendo, you fight in the way of the sword. You must be in fear of your life. Then your mind will be one with your body, and the sword merely an extension of the whole." As she said this, she pushed her jacket from her shoulders and let the keiko-gi slither to the floor.
"I can't fight you that way, Tai-sho. I am Amaterasu, and a Chu-sa. I have pledged my life for you."
"Yes", said Katana, her tone a low, melodic contralto. "But pledging loyalty and fighting for your life are two different things, hai?" - Battletech novel : Daughter of the Dragon
(another good example of how much better other franchises are in terms of featuring female characters and minorities, by the way, in this case the main protagonist being both a woman and black)
Of course, alternatively they could also be training non-lethal attacks in preparation for the apprehension of Apostates and Witches for trial or sanctioning. They are kind of a police force, too, after all, and occasionally even get to arrest someone. Especially if called in by an Inquisitor who wants to have prisoners to interrogate.
BattleTech had some great characters and books - although most of the females were also very hot (and just finished playing MEchwarrior online so very topical)
Natasha Kerensky, Melissa Steiner, Cassie Southern and many many others ah happy memories
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: Arguably, renegade IG and orks can be harder to fight than SM chapters, though sheer numbers.
7
Though in studio fluff, Sisters take on much more dire threats and still win. And, soldier for soldier, Sisters are way above renegade IG. Arguably the average Ork troop too, in terms of training and equipment.
Suffice to say, I think it's a good bet that the FFG books didn't describe the Space Marines as being "even" able to fight renegade guard.
In essence, Imperial Guard can win anything by sheer attrition (and, as an organisation, are thus superior to Astartes or Sororitas), but if you need something done quick and urgent, you call in the various elite formations, because there the IG will fail, on the basis of not being able to amass the necessary amount of cannon-fodder and heavy machinery in sufficient time.
Mr Morden wrote:BattleTech had some great characters and books - although most of the females were also very hot (and just finished playing MEchwarrior online so very topical)
Natasha Kerensky, Melissa Steiner, Cassie Southern and many many others ah happy memories
Quite so!
The funny thing about Battletech is that all the female MechWarriors tend to wear nothing but a shirt and panties - but it's okay because it's the same for the men.
Troike wrote:Suffice to say, I think it's a good bet that the FFG books didn't describe the Space Marines as being "even" able to fight renegade guard.
Flagellantism implies hurting oneself. Not hurting others while wearing a huge armor with a helmet that hides most of your face while showing your mouth with tons of lipstick on it .
Honestly, I have no problem with the flagellant theme of the repentia given it is done right, but the mistress is so obviously S&M themed that it is painful.
Lynata wrote: Some do, but I'll refrain from posting examples here out of fear for breaking some policy.
I just made a link to something worse a few message ago, so I am pretty sure you can link it here. Just put the required warnings, use spoiler tags, and link rather than embed. Else, PM.
Lynata wrote: But, basically, think of the various "naked people" statues from ancient Greece or Rome, or Leni Riefenstahl's "Triumph of the Will" propaganda movie for Nazi Germany and its glorification of the human (aryan) body, or that French Revolution drawing with the half-naked girl marching in the front. In these cases, what can make it sexy is the sheer purity of essence - an attractive body coupled with the specific absence of a sexualised pose. A naked archer readying her bow, a female athlete showcasing her muscles, ...
Well, I know about general non-sexual nudity (completely SFW). I am speaking about whether or not people do that kind of fanart with sisters.
Lynata wrote: The training could be less about practicing non-lethal moves, but more about deflecting incoming attacks. You fail to parry, you're going to bleed. Think of it as an incentive. Harsh, but (imho) totally believable for the Sisterhood, given that apparently you start getting clobbered on the head with power maces in the Schola Progenium already.
You do not need to be naked to hurt when failing to parry, really. That justification is so far-stretch it feels more like an excuse.
Lynata wrote: (another good example of how much better other franchises are in terms of featuring female characters and minorities, by the way, in this case the main protagonist being both a woman and black)
Every40k game I have played included black women . Arguably, that was always my own models, but still…
Lynata wrote: Of course, alternatively they could also be training non-lethal attacks in preparation for the apprehension of Apostates and Witches for trial or sanctioning. They are kind of a police force, too, after all, and occasionally even get to arrest someone. Especially if called in by an Inquisitor who wants to have prisoners to interrogate.
Do they go naked when trying to capture people? Or do they try to capture naked people?
Troike wrote: Though in studio fluff, Sisters take on much more dire threats and still win. And, soldier for soldier, Sisters are way above renegade IG. Arguably the average Ork troop too, in terms of training and equipment.
That was just a jape, directed in the general direction of space marine fanboys .
Furyou Miko wrote: Actually, the 'naked training' thing is an homage to the naked greek wrestler, and not intended to be sexual at all.
Are there any police force, or any military, s around the world where naked training is a thing?
Beside, I very much doubt homage to ancient Greece works here given how Spartan women were mocked by other Greeks, especially Athenians, for doing sport and dressing in “revealing” outfits .
Also, apparently, Spetznaz actually do naked combat drills, although thats from asking a friend who knows stuff rather than any particular research. The anecdote goes;
They were knocked out, taken to a dark room half-filled with water mixed with pig's blood, stripped naked, left there, and and an angry German Shepherd was released into the room with them.
I guess it depends what you mean by NSFW. Yeah gruesomely mutilated bodies are not exactly SFW, and that is what a good depiction of the repentia is. But what we are talking about here is more of an explicitly sexual nature.
NSFW is plain Not Safe For Work. Though I guess it depends, specifically, on where you work and what your job entails; where I work, it wouldn't have to be anything particularly violent or explicitly sexual. Nudity of any kind is right out, as is anything more suggestive than what you'd find in an issue of People magazine.
Honestly, I have no problem with the flagellant theme of the repentia given it is done right, but the mistress is so obviously S&M themed that it is painful.
But, see, that's the thing. The trappings of the Repentia Mistress being S&M flavored is because S&M, 90% of it, is not sexual at all, once you take the personal attraction to the fetish out of it. Once that's gone? It's just a torture/punishment scenario.
Then I would assume DakkaDakka is not safe for most work. Because in most job, you are not supposed to go on forums related to miniature games during your work hours. Or any other website not directly related how you are supposed to earn your money.
That is why I never quite understood what NSFW was supposed to mean exactly.
Meaning that you cannot watch a movie aimed at young children, that got a rating of “For everyone” in a bunch of countries, like Kirikou and the sorceress, I guess. Because breasts. But apparently the level of violence on most 40k artworks seems okay, since I do not see any kind of NSFW warning around them.
Strange working place.
Psienesis wrote: The trappings of the Repentia Mistress being S&M flavored is because S&M, 90% of it, is not sexual at all, once you take the personal attraction to the fetish out of it. Once that's gone? It's just a torture/punishment scenario.
Nope. I am pretty sure that if 90% of what you do during your S&M sessions is akin to torture, you need psychiatric help. And better sooner than later.
I mean, just look at the traditional, cliche black leather costume of the dominatrix. How does that relate in any way to actual torture or punishment? Who would actually torture or punish a prisoner dressed that way? Do you think they used that kind of outfit in Guantanamo?
Or just look at actual torture practice, like waterboarding. Does that look like something S&M adepts would do to each other?
Obviously, there is a non-empty overlay between the two things, because S&M is inspired by actual dominance relation/punishment, but they are in no way equivalent.
And this head totally reference the specifics of S&M that are not in any way related to actual torture or punishment :
*coughs* actually, yes, waterboarding is something that several S&M "adepts" I know (nice phrasing) frequently indulge in. Including me.
Now, I could go into a lot of detail about the hows and whys of the torture aspect of BDSM, but I'm not completely certain that this is the venue for it. If you're interested in learning more, send me a PM.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Flagellantism implies hurting oneself.
This is only half-correct and depends on whether you are referring to flagellantism in the form of wandering peasants, or the ritual practice in various monastic communities. The English wikipedia article (from which I assume you got the information) is incomplete; the German version offers additional information, including the first recorded occurrence as well as a detailed description of the ritual as practiced in the St. Jacobs abbey of Luttich. I'll do a brief translation:
The first written record of self-castigation as a form of Christian penance stems from the biographer of Saint Padulf. According to this, he used to have his pupil Theodenus whip him during the fasting period.
The process of ritual self-castigation originates in the Liber Ordinarius of the St. Jacobs abbey in Luttich. The monk who wanted to have himself castigated asked a priest to perform the act. Then he sat down, bared his back and prayed the Confiteor three times. During the first two prayers, the priest answered with "Miseratur tui" and lashed at least three times. After the third time, he spoke the Indulgentiam, the short form of priestly absolution, and finished with the Absolve Domine. After this, three further strikes followed. Every monk was allowed to request such penitence sessions three times a day.
You see, I think the focus of flagellantism is on getting whipped as a form of cleansing, period. It matters not whose hand does the whipping, just that the recipient of the lashes is actually willing to do penance / is asking for it.
Now, I'm under no illusions that GW has not deliberately increased the fetish factor - just like they turn everything else up to eleven, too. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate and say that it still makes sense from an in-universe point of view.
And I believe that the S&M impression of the Repentia Mistress would change quite a bit if you just paint her armour in the colours of another order like the Argent Shroud. The miniatures simply make SoB power armour look like leather if painted in black - this is not unique to the Repentia Mistress, but something that all Sisters minis "suffer" from, as the armour detail gets lost unless you look at them from up-close. It's where all the troll comments about "skintight power armour" come from.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:I just made a link to something worse a few message ago, so I am pretty sure you can link it here. Just put the required warnings, use spoiler tags, and link rather than embed.
Well, alright.
Spoiler:
NSFW Rated M for Mature Nudity etc blah blah.
I remember two more - one of a "lone survivor" wounded Sister in anguish ripping her armour from the chest and crying to the sky, and another similar to the first picture, just with more people (and the flagellation administered by someone else) - but I can't seem to locate them now. Maybe someone else knows them?
Anyways, yeah, as said before this stuff is extremely rare, but not non-existent. It's just not as popular as the standard smut, because the majority of people interested in naked Sisters have rather .. primitive tastes.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:You do not need to be naked to hurt when failing to parry, really. That justification is so far-stretch it feels more like an excuse.
You don't need to, but it hurts more and it can be justified with a focus on purity of the moment. "Just the Sister and her weapon". No armour or clothing to inhibit her movement, or to remind her of false protection. The only shield she has is her faith.
Look at the Repentia artwork from the Codex. If GW wouldn't be as kids-friendly, I'd expect the miniatures to wear (even) less, too.
And as Furyou Miko pointed out, there is precedence for naked training in real history.
Did you know that the term "gymnasium" is derived from the Greek word for "naked", as in "training naked"? Nakedness can play a spiritual role, and the Sisters are spiritual. If they stand naked vigils - actual GW fluff - why should they not do naked duels, too? After all, this is how the God-Emperor created them.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:I am pretty sure that if 90% of what you do during your S&M sessions is akin to torture, you need psychiatric help. And better sooner than later.
Sadism and masochism in sexual practice have, for quite some time, been officially defined as abnormal perversions warranting psychiatric help. Needless to say, the definition thus seems to be rather fluid and (once again) depends on your perspective.
The BDSM subculture has become a bit more tolerated and accepted in recent decades, but modern medicine still propagates a significant (and harmful) bias in the majority of civilised countries.
[edit] By the way, I found this whilst browsing for the above-linked pictures. Quite a cool armour design - as I've said before, I am too used to the "boob plate" to imagine Sisters without it, but scaling it down like on that picture, and bulking the rest up a bit, might make for a nice compromise.
BlaxicanX wrote: What threats do Sisters routinely take on and triumph over that the Guard do not?
Aside form what Lynata said, my point was that the Sisters are an elite force, so triumphing over renegade IG and Orks isn't exactly a major accomplishment for them. The quote basically implies that that's the extent of their effectiveness.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: Honestly, I have no problem with the flagellant theme of the repentia given it is done right, but the mistress is so obviously S&M themed that it is painful.
Honestly, I'm not sure that there is any way around that. The extreme penitent theme of the Repentia itself crosses over into what can be percieved as S&M territory. I think I'd vote to keep it more or less the same, since I'd rather the Sisters stick to that religous zealot theme, even if it might mean giving some people a different impression.
Troike wrote:I think I'd vote to keep it more or less the same, since I'd rather the Sisters stick to that religous zealot theme, even if it might mean giving some people a different impression.
This. In the end, Sisters are what you want to see them as. More than any other army in the franchise.
To some, they're Guardsmen in power armour, issued with downsized bolters and light armour, and good enough to triumph over some Orcs and Renegade IG.
To some, they're GW's female equivalent to Space Marines; elite warriors driven by burning faith and hatred, taking on - and having a chance to defeat - anything from heretics to xenos, from daemons to CSM.
To some, they're a penitent order whose members live a life of intense hardship, discipline and mortification of the body, entirely focused on cleansing themselves and everyone else.
To some, they're just jerk-off material.
Like Troike, I feel that any change to distance the Sororitas from this "proximity" to sexualisation would come at a cost to one of their core aspects as an army of religious nutjobs. Not only would it be a concession to those who feel a need to twist the image of the Sisterhood, it'd also sacrifice a part of their very nature.
Lynata wrote: Now, I'm under no illusions that GW has not deliberately increased the fetish factor - just like they turn everything else up to eleven, too.
Did they increase the fetish factor on WFB too ?
Spoiler:
Do they look like S&M stuff?
Not everything .
Lynata wrote: And I believe that the S&M impression of the Repentia Mistress would change quite a bit if you just paint her armour in the colours of another order like the Argent Shroud.
Spoiler:
Does not change much. That helmet is a dead giveaway, given the whips and the context.
Seriously, that helmet, that cape, those whips… am I the only one who finds the connection with sexually-charged imagery obvious and unfitting here?
Lynata wrote: It's where all the troll comments about "skintight power armour" come from.
That, or 2nd edition cover. Because really, that Sister must be painfully slim to even fit in this armor…
Or even current edition's cover. The armor on those leg is not what I would call very bulky. Compare it to how large the legs of the marine armor is.
Andrea Uderzo is the best at giving us Sisters in really bulky armor that does not seem skintight at all. I love that guy's artwork!
You forgot the link part. No embedding usually allows to get away with more .
Lynata wrote: It's just not as popular as the standard smut, because the majority of people interested in naked Sisters have rather .. primitive tastes.
As opposed to your more… educated tastes ?
Lynata wrote: You don't need to, but it hurts more and it can be justified with a focus on purity of the moment. "Just the Sister and her weapon". No armour or clothing to inhibit her movement, or to remind her of false protection. The only shield she has is her faith.
Consider me very unconvinced. If you are religious and want more pain, you wear something like that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cilice If you are more shooting-oriented (and Sisters sure do, only repentia and sister superior use any kind of close combat weapons), you do not need wrestle matches. And I do not see even those sisters that use melee weapon training by doing naked wrestle matches either, they would focus on their weapon of choice and there is no way you can train on using a chainsword, a powersword, a mace or an eviscerator naked.
That “inhibit movement” is part of the rhetoric bingo . It is bs. Really, training clothes will not inhibit movement at all, providing they were not designed by an idiot.
You are making excuses for depicting something very specific that does not in any way naturally comes out of the themes that Sisters of Battle emphasize. If you like looking at naked women fighting each other with swords, that is okay, but why have them be Sisters of Battle? If you want to depict Sisters of Battle, why would you have them striped out of their iconic gear (the power armor), and in some situation that has nothing to do with their theme (religious zealotry, excessive wealth, …)
Lynata wrote: Look at the Repentia artwork from the Codex.
If you are referring to the picture I think you are referring to, it is something completely different to what you are describing. It is body horror, and utterly unsexy. It does not evoke at all S&M, because stuff like recently gouged out eye, or almost shaved head with a bionic hole with badly scared skin around it, do not evoke S&M (or any activity from which one could derive pleasure).
I think this picture is awesome precisely because of that. There is just no way to mistake it for a bunch of Slaanesh cultist having a good time. It screams religious penance turned up to eleven. Something the miniatures, and most of the fan art, utterly fails to do (and I do not think they are trying either).
See, that drawing really does not fit your description here: “But, basically, think of the various "naked people" statues from ancient Greece or Rome, or Leni Riefenstahl's "Triumph of the Will" propaganda movie for Nazi Germany and its glorification of the human (aryan) body, or that French Revolution drawing with the half-naked girl marching in the front. In these cases, what can make it sexy is the sheer purity of essence - an attractive body coupled with the specific absence of a sexualised pose. A naked archer readying her bow, a female athlete showcasing her muscles, ... ”
Rather than ancient Greek statues or nazi propaganda film, look for inspiration on (NSFW because tons of actual blood) here. Does those picture look sexy, or horrifying?
Lynata wrote: And as Furyou Miko pointed out, there is precedence for naked training in real history.
Yeah, Spartan women (and Greek men) did so.
Does not mean it is fitting to the Sisters in any way. There are tons of stuff the Greek did that would totally not be fitted for Sisters, if you get what I mean. There has never been any kind of Greek inspiration in the Sisters. However, feel free to draw fanart of marines from the Minotaurs wrestle naked, that would be perfectly fitting.
Lynata wrote: The BDSM subculture has become a bit more tolerated and accepted in recent decades, but modern medicine still propagates a significant (and harmful) bias in the majority of civilised countries.
I stand by my words: if you are going out your or someone else's eye for pleasure, you need psychiatric help. Same if you shave their head, drill a hole in it, and put some metal stuff in there, or if you put needles through half of their faces, piercing their eyes in the process. If you just do light whipping and bondage and stuff like that, who care, but actual torture that you would die from without medical assistance?
Lynata wrote: [edit] By the way, I found this whilst browsing for the above-linked pictures. Quite a cool armour design - as I've said before, I am too used to the "boob plate" to imagine Sisters without it, but scaling it down like on that picture, and bulking the rest up a bit, might make for a nice compromise.
Looks too much like the marines armor. Need more bling. MOAR BLINGY SHINY STUFF!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Troike wrote: Honestly, I'm not sure that there is any way around that. The extreme penitent theme of the Repentia itself crosses over into what can be percieved as S&M territory.
This does not seem in any way related to S&M to me, for reasons I mentioned above. The Mistress model (and concept) screams S&M to me. Am I the only one? Is that really just me?
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: This does not seem in any way related to S&M to me, for reasons I mentioned above. The Mistress model (and concept) screams S&M to me.
Yes, those are good Repentia Sisters that fit the theme of the SoB. But I was referring to just the Mistress, in response to you singling her out. Sorry, should've made that clearer.
Of course not. I acknowledge that it's very easy to view the mistress in that light. But I personally can accept that element being present as long as it also serves to underline the religious fanatic theme of the Sisters.
I would not mind seeing the mistress go. I do not think she could fit the religious tone in any way. From the old-school medieval penitents from The Seventh Seal to the modern pictures of Shia during the Ashura, none display any kind of non-flagellating member standing above the crowd and doing the punishment without receiving any.
I don't really mind not totally adhering to historical precedent. Because it's not a historical recreation, it's science fiction. But, logically, I think she makes sense to be there. She's an overseer for the otherwise exiled Repentia, and the one who observes and judges when they have earned their forgiveness.
I also think that she makes for an interesting squad leader that fits with the theme of her unit, rather than just a generic Sister of some sort.
Troike wrote: I don't really mind not totally adhering to historical precedent.
Me neither, but this is not about history. The Seventh Seal, if you have not seen it, is all about ambiance and atmosphere. It is a great movie, but it has no pretension at historical accuracy, and it is a good things because it would not meet them in any way. The mistress does not fit the archetype/trope/idea/… of the religious flagellant.
If there really needs to be someone deciding which sisters are worthy to be reintegrated, I would rather see a Sister with a big book redacting everything that happens and not taking any active role in the battle.
I could get behind replacing the Mistress with a grudgebearer.
Also, I'm fairly sure that 'my' Mistress model has had a headswap, since she has a standard Sabbat helm. ^^; either that or its just been greenstuffed - I didn't paint her, she actually belongs to my little brother.
Ahhh, greenstuffing away strange armor holes! Did that to change the metal bras of my daughters-of-the-flame cultist count-as into breastplates.
How old is your little brother?
You both had a Sister army, or you shared one army?
(I do the same with my own 3-year-younger brother, who is also taller , and way more muscled than me, to tease him )
We both had our Sisters armies, although (true to form), I had more vehicles and he had more infantry. I have custody of most of his army these days (except the seraphim, which he refuses to let out of his sight for some reason) since I still play and if you put them both together, they make a sizable force... although it does look a little odd since his are Martyred Lady and mine are Sacred Tome.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Did they increase the fetish factor on WFB too ?
Hmm, it probably depends on your "personal threshold".
Spoiler:
But all in all, no, I think this is mainly a 40k thing. And not just in terms of fetish - I think 40k is more "over the top" than WHFB in general, simply because the franchise is a wild mixture of just about everything that quite often embraces the crazy, whereas WHFB is "just" fantasy.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Seriously, that helmet, that cape, those whips… am I the only one who finds the connection with sexually-charged imagery obvious and unfitting here?
Maybe you just have a lower threshold, as far as the overlap is concerned.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:That, or 2nd edition cover. Because really, that Sister must be painfully slim to even fit in this armor…
Yeah. What really gets me is how so many people only seem to know this one piece of ancient SoB art, but none of the other 23962 official images that, in my opinion, give a much better impression.
Don't get me wrong, the are parts of this Blanche picture that I like (specifically, the background is quite awesome), but the slim shape and the heels just kill it for me.
And yes, +1 @ Andrea Uderzo. Still my favourite, too.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:As opposed to your more… educated tastes ?
Hmm, it's difficult to describe. It's not that I don't like porn, but part of me just considers it wrong to "besmirch" something by twisting and sexualising it in a way that is incompatible with what the original concept stands for. In my opinion, it is quite possible to insert erotica into a theme without breaking the mold - you just need to respect the background's boundaries and be clever about what would still fit to the idea.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Consider me very unconvinced. If you are religious and want more pain, you wear something like that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cilice
But this hurts all the time, not just when you fail.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:If you are more shooting-oriented (and Sisters sure do, only repentia and sister superior use any kind of close combat weapons) [...]
"Even amongst the highly skilled warriors of the Orders Militant, some Battle Sisters prove themselves to be exceptionally talented. These are organised into Seraphim squads and the Sisters Superior teach them the ancient fighting techniques which have been passed on down the millennia since the Daughters of the Emperor were founded. These include methods of unarmed fighting and armed hand-to-hand combat, as well as using sophisticated equipment such as jump packs." - 2E C:SoB
"The Seraphim utilise jump packs and are experts in hand to hand combat, while the Celestians are most often fielded as bodyguards for Adepta Sororitas leaders, focusing their hatred of the unholy to protect their charge. - 3E C:WH
So yeah, I can see wrestling matches.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:And I do not see even those sisters that use melee weapon training by doing naked wrestle matches either, they would focus on their weapon of choice and there is no way you can train on using a chainsword, a powersword, a mace or an eviscerator naked.
Sure you can. You just shouldn't switch them on.
That aside, I think the most common close combat weapon would be a normal, unpowered blade issued to the rank-and-file Battle Sisters, rather than the chain- and power weapons issued only to squad leaders and elites. Perhaps something like those cutlasses they had in Dawn of War?
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:You are making excuses for depicting something very specific that does not in any way naturally comes out of the themes that Sisters of Battle emphasize. If you like looking at naked women fighting each other with swords, that is okay, but why have them be Sisters of Battle? If you want to depict Sisters of Battle, why would you have them striped out of their iconic gear (the power armor), and in some situation that has nothing to do with their theme (religious zealotry, excessive wealth, …)
As mentioned earlier in this post, there are areas where erotica and professional soldiering can overlap - I also didn't consider the naked kendo lesson in that Battletech novel particularly out-of-character. Somewhat weird, certainly, but still fitting the theme (and Katana Tormark is a bit weird as a person, in general).
I guess we just seem to have different thresholds of where we draw the line. I don't mind sexy Sororitas - if they were not sexualised. There is a difference.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:If you are referring to the picture I think you are referring to, it is something completely different to what you are describing. It is body horror, and utterly unsexy. It does not evoke at all S&M, because stuff like recently gouged out eye, or almost shaved head with a bionic hole with badly scared skin around it, do not evoke S&M (or any activity from which one could derive pleasure).
I have a feeling you'd judge the picture differently if you had the exact same girls getting whipped by the Repentia Mistress.
And if you think that the Repentia Mistress' mini is about "Slaanesh cultists having a good time", then I don't see how you could judge that picture differently - considering that Slaanesh is about all extreme experiences, not just pleasure but pain as well!
Don't tell me you can't see the link between flagellation as a BDSM practice and the religious one! It is one of the paths to religious ecstasy, dontchano.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Rather than ancient Greek statues or nazi propaganda film, look for inspiration on (NSFW because tons of actual blood) here. Does those picture look sexy, or horrifying?
You really don't see that they have potential for both? All depending on camera angle, background, the body of the person in question, and the instrument that was used. Try to mentally replace those naked men with naked women, and the wooden boards with cats-o-nine-tails, and reconsider your question.
You're mixing two different topics here, though, and seem to conflate my previous statements into a single one - which I fear might twist my words. So are we talking about naked Sisters standing watch, or flagellation?
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Does not mean it is fitting to the Sisters in any way. There are tons of stuff the Greek did that would totally not be fitted for Sisters, if you get what I mean. There has never been any kind of Greek inspiration in the Sisters.
There has never been a lot of stuff for the Sisters, simply because the amount of fluff is limited.
Do you know what style of martial arts their is derived from?
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:I stand by my words: if you are going out your or someone else's eye for pleasure, you need psychiatric help. Same if you shave their head, drill a hole in it, and put some metal stuff in there, or if you put needles through half of their faces, piercing their eyes in the process. If you just do light whipping and bondage and stuff like that, who care, but actual torture that you would die from without medical assistance?
Are you re-defining the term "torture" here?
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Me neither, but this is not about history. The Seventh Seal, if you have not seen it, is all about ambiance and atmosphere. It is a great movie, but it has no pretension at historical accuracy, and it is a good things because it would not meet them in any way. The mistress does not fit the archetype/trope/idea/… of the religious flagellant.
You mean apart from "person A gets whipped by person B to achieve purity" being the very first case of flagellation on record? And whippings administered by a priest having been ritualised?
Furyou Miko wrote:He doesn't really play at all any more, but his armies were Sisters, Templars and Tyranids. Oh, and a rather nice Valhallan/Bolshevik guard army.
I approve of your little brother. Apart from 'nids, he is covering all my bases.
To some, they're Guardsmen in power armour, issued with downsized bolters and light armour, and good enough to triumph over some Orcs and Renegade IG.
To some, they're GW's female equivalent to Space Marines; elite warriors driven by burning faith and hatred, taking on - and having a chance to defeat - anything from heretics to xenos, from daemons to CSM.
To some, they're a penitent order whose members live a life of intense hardship, discipline and mortification of the body, entirely focused on cleansing themselves and everyone else.
To some, they're just jerk-off material.
This may just be an anecdote, but there's more interpretations than that. For example, I consider them neither 'basically femSM' nor 'Guardsmen in PA'. In my interpretation they are significantly superior to Guardsmen, due to being considerably more skilled but just as not much if not more due to the mighty PA and Bolter. Space-magic is a plus. ( ) On the other hand, they are firmly far below Marines, as despite their faith and wargear, they are still but humans, instead of living, superfast, superskilled MBTs.
Oh, sure, there's going to be lots of levels in-between - I was just listing the extremes. Though your interpretation is pretty close to my first example, given the levels of discipline and training that some Guard regiments (Cadians) are gifted with, making their equipment the main difference.
The "true" nature of their miracles is yet another aspect where there are conflicting interpretations - both between the fans, as well as different sources.
Lynata wrote: But all in all, no, I think this is mainly a 40k thing. And not just in terms of fetish - I think 40k is more "over the top" than WHFB in general, simply because the franchise is a wild mixture of just about everything that quite often embraces the crazy, whereas WHFB is "just" fantasy.
I think it is more about the fact WFB flagellants are men rather than women, hence receive different treatment but maybe that is just me.
Lynata wrote: Hmm, it's difficult to describe. It's not that I don't like porn, but part of me just considers it wrong to "besmirch" something by twisting and sexualising it in a way that is incompatible with what the original concept stands for. In my opinion, it is quite possible to insert erotica into a theme without breaking the mold - you just need to respect the background's boundaries and be clever about what would still fit to the idea.
Well, I would prefer not inserting erotica into a theme where it does not naturally fit at all. This does not even require being clever, and leaves room for the billions of other contexts that are appropriate for “erotica insertion” .
Lynata wrote: But this hurts all the time, not just when you fail.
Try it, and tell me how much it protected you from harm when being attacked with a club or with an edge. Make a comparison with how much it hurt when you were naked. Just try, and tell me!
Lynata wrote: Sure you can. You just shouldn't switch them on.
No. Does not work. Especially for chain weapon. I am pretty sure the chain will pull your sword when the teeth bite through the flesh. If you are not used to that pulling forward, you might even let go of your weapon when actually fighting.
Lynata wrote: That aside, I think the most common close combat weapon would be a normal, unpowered blade issued to the rank-and-file Battle Sisters, rather than the chain- and power weapons issued only to squad leaders and elites.
There never ever was something like that on the tabletop in the history of ever, as far as I can tell. I would not mind getting a second attack in close combat, but apparently Sisters just use bolt pistols when in close combat.
Lynata wrote: As mentioned earlier in this post, there are areas where erotica and professional soldiering can overlap
Yeah, greek soldiers “bounding” with each other . But extremist warrior-nuns? Not unless you twist everything to fit your purpose.
Lynata wrote: I also didn't consider the naked kendo lesson in that Battletech novel particularly out-of-character.
I have no idea, I do not know anything about Battletech. I guess it is about mechs or something.
Lynata wrote: I don't mind sexy Sororitas - if they were not sexualised. There is a difference.
You mean that you do not mind sisters being put naked for the most peculiar of reasons in order to titillate the viewer provided that there is some vague way to rationalize the art?
Lynata wrote: I have a feeling you'd judge the picture differently if you had the exact same girls getting whipped by the Repentia Mistress.
There is some hooded, armored figure that can be seen scourging her own troops on the picture. She is scourging the arcoflagellant rather than the sisters, but she does not seem anywhere near S&M-like as the mistress miniature.
Lynata wrote: All depending on camera angle, background, the body of the person in question, and the instrument that was used.
Then use the goddamn right camera angles, background, bodies and instruments!
Lynata wrote: Try to mentally replace those naked men with naked women, and the wooden boards with cats-o-nine-tails, and reconsider your question.
Which wooden board? And sorry, way too many blood spilled all over to not be horrible .
Lynata wrote: So are we talking about naked Sisters standing watch, or flagellation?
I do not know, both I guess. I mean, for me the only right reason to depict naked sisters is about flagellation/repentia, and from the horrifying angle rather than the sexy one.
Lynata wrote: There has never been a lot of stuff for the Sisters, simply because the amount of fluff is limited.
That is not the reason why they were not linked to ancient Greek. Or, rather, that is not the reason why there are no fluff justification to draw sisters erotica/porn . I mean, that is just in direct contradiction to their theme!
Lynata wrote: You mean apart from "person A gets whipped by person B to achieve purity" being the very first case of flagellation on record? And whippings administered by a priest having been ritualised?
Do you know the difference between what you translated from the German Wikipedia and what I described? The relation of dominance, where the one doing the whipping is basically in a position of power over the one being whipped. Relations of dominance being, by the way, as far as I know, very popular in S&M.
I would have no problem is the whipping was administered by the “Self-flagellants” servitors described in Blood of Martyr.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:I think it is more about the fact WFB flagellants are men rather than women, hence receive different treatment but maybe that is just me.
Good point.
I still think WHFB is less "crazy" than 40k in general, but I also feel a .. shall we say "different design vision" when it comes to anything female in the franchise.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Well, I would prefer not inserting erotica into a theme where it does not naturally fit at all. This does not even require being clever, and leaves room for the billions of other contexts that are appropriate for “erotica insertion”
But why do you believe erotica would not "naturally fit at all" to the Sororitas - if looked at from an outside perspective (i.e. us, the reader)?
James Swallow described some people getting "impure thoughts" looking at Hospitaller Verity in Faith & Fire. I did not consider this "naturally unfitting" to 40k at all.
As Troike already said, it is a matter of interpretation. In-universe, too. I'm sure the Sisters must seem somewhat crazy to a lot of outsiders, and not just when it comes to what some people might describe as "BDSM".
Where do you think the concept of nunsploitation stems from? It certainly did not pop into existence out of thin air, but instead built upon outsiders' fantasies and bias based on very real occurences and rituals that were simply interpreted differently by those who do not practice them.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Try it, and tell me how much it protected you from harm when being attacked with a club or with an edge. Make a comparison with how much it hurt when you were naked. Just try, and tell me!
You try it, you are making this argument. Also, who is talking about protection? A cilice's purpose is not protection, but to elicit pain. Constantly. Which ... kind of goes against the idea of feeling pain only when failing to block an incoming blow.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:No. Does not work. Especially for chain weapon. I am pretty sure the chain will pull your sword when the teeth bite through the flesh. If you are not used to that pulling forward, you might even let go of your weapon when actually fighting.
What's your reasoning for dismissing the (blunt!) edge of a power sword?
And again: I suggested from the start that they could be training defense, not attack. It matters little whether you are being attacked with a chainsword, a power sword, or a hypothetical CCW for rank-and-file Battle Sisters if you are supposed to parry the damn thing.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:You mean that you do not mind sisters being put naked for the most peculiar of reasons in order to titillate the viewer provided that there is some vague way to rationalize the art?
This is a flawed (and self-contradictory) question loaded with your personal assessment of the situation. Let me rephrase it for you: Do I mean that I wouldn't mind Sisters being put naked in order to titillate the viewer if there is some rationalisation that would not result in me considering it peculiar? Yes.
Obviously, this should not happen often - at the very least not in official publications. But I have the same reservations against naked Sisters that I have against naked Daemonettes, naked Guardsmen, naked Space Marines or naked Hive Gangers: none. It just has to fit to the occasion and, to me, seem 100% compatible with the background, lest it may threaten their perception as an army.
Examples of what I could imagine: a fully naked vigil (as described in an official GW core publication) in some tomb, a scene of self-flagellation or corporal punishment, a Repentia with nothing covering her breasts, a Hospitaller providing first aid to a bare-chested woman.
Maybe I'm a perv. Maybe I'm just very liberal when it comes to depictions of nude flesh. Could be a European/Ex-GDR thing.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Which wooden board? And sorry, way too many blood spilled all over to not be horrible
Those ... things they use for beating themselves. Those are not the traditional whips, scoriadas, etc after all.
As for the blood ... well, you could always stop watching after the first few minutes.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:That is not the reason why they were not linked to ancient Greek.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Do you know the difference between what you translated from the German Wikipedia and what I described? The relation of dominance, where the one doing the whipping is basically in a position of power over the one being whipped. Relations of dominance being, by the way, as far as I know, very popular in S&M.
Except that a priest is superior to a monk.
Wasn't the guy whipping the dude in Name of the Rose a priest, too? It's been a while, but I distinctly recall him being in a position of power.
Also, just recently there was kind of a big scandal here in Ireland with nuns using corporal punishment on children. Though I think we've heard similar stories from all over the world.
"Increasingly, violence was also embedded in the rules. Seventh century rules, stemming from the inspiration of Columbanus, tend to be harsher and more detailed in prescribing punishment than sixth century rules. This probably reflects the growing experience of the monastic regulators. Maternal discipline did not spare the rod. Abbess Rictrude’s daughter Eusebia, who was determined to escape from her mother’s convent in order to take up her inherited responsibilities as abbess in her deceased grandmother’s community, was so severely beaten for her insubordination that she coughed blood for the rest of her life." - Vita St. Rictrudis 26, Acta Sanctorum
The 2E Codex:SoB was fairly clear about a culture of pain and punishment within the Imperial Cult. I have no idea why you think this would cease to exist once applied to a Sororitas convent, of all things. Where the Sisters Superior "adopt" young Sisters into their Squad, becoming surrogate mothers also responsible for maintaining discipline and spiritual health. What is your opinion on the relation of dominance regarding a mother spanking her child? Is this just BDSM, too, or not rather something that could be interpreted in different ways depending on the observer?
"It is our creed that the purpose of life is to suffer, for in this way we become one with the Emperor's eternal suffering. Have you not heard that those who suffer are blessed?" - 3E Rulebook
Lynata wrote: I still think WHFB is less "crazy" than 40k in general
True, but Empire and (to a lesser extent) Bretonnia seems to be the place where all the weird, crazy 40k-esque illustrations goes.
Lynata wrote: But why do you believe erotica would not "naturally fit at all" to the Sororitas - if looked at from an outside perspective (i.e. us, the reader)?
James Swallow described some people getting "impure thoughts" looking at Hospitaller Verity in Faith & Fire. I did not consider this "naturally unfitting" to 40k at all.
He also described people thinking Sisters were eating men. Do you yearn for fanart of cannibalistic sisters?
Lynata wrote: Where do you think the concept of nunsploitation stems from? It certainly did not pop into existence out of thin air, but instead built upon outsiders' fantasies and bias based on very real occurences and rituals that were simply interpreted differently by those who do not practice them.
It certainly came out of outsider's fantasies and this whole mentality of pure/impure. It certainly was not akin to a documentary on the actual practice in convent. It is the same thing that inspire all that Sister snuff. Yet you seem to consider your stuff as somehow above this .
Lynata wrote: Do I mean that I wouldn't mind Sisters being put naked in order to titillate the viewer if there is some rationalisation that would not result in me considering it peculiar? Yes.
[…]
It just has to fit to the occasion and, to me, seem 100% compatible with the background, lest it may threaten their perception as an army.
[…]
Examples of what I could imagine: a fully naked vigil (as described in an official GW core publication) in some tomb, a scene of self-flagellation or corporal punishment, a Repentia with nothing covering her breasts, a Hospitaller providing first aid to a bare-chested woman.
See, that last example, just like that “training naked”, does not feel natural at all to me. It strikes me of “How could I find a way to draw a sister naked, and then pretend it is because of some fluff reason”, rather than “What situation would a Sister likely find herself in?”.
Honestly, even the traditional awful snuff with a Slaaneshi marine raping a Sisters feel less contrived and more fluffy/natural, for all its bad taste…
Lynata wrote: Maybe I'm a perv. Maybe I'm just very liberal when it comes to depictions of nude flesh. Could be a European/Ex-GDR thing.
Well, I am just as European as you are, as the flag next to my name imply. And I mentioned that picture with the naked repentia as one of my favorite many time (even used it as an avatar). I also repeatedly referenced a movie for young children with a lot of nudity. Now, you somehow seem to want to see attractive, perfect bodies in illustrations of Sisters.
Lynata wrote: Those ... things they use for beating themselves. Those are not the traditional whips, scoriadas, etc after all.
They are knives.
Lynata wrote: As for the blood ... well, you could always stop watching after the first few minutes.
Why would I want to watch the first few minutes of people cutting themselves with knives and spreading blood all over in a display of religious hysteria outside of over-the-top fiction like 40k ?
No, that does not turn me on.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:He also described people thinking Sisters were eating men. Do you yearn for fanart of cannibalistic sisters?
I certainly would be curious as to how exactly this perception came to be. Aren't you?
I imagine it's likely to be an unfounded rumour based on the whole fact of "isolated place, no men allowed", and that the Sisters display a no-nonsense attitude in their dealings.
If you think this is equal to the very real possibility of looking at a (fully dressed) Sister and thinking she's attractive, then I'm gonna have to say you are reaching quite a bit.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:It certainly came out of outsider's fantasies and this whole mentality of pure/impure. It certainly was not akin to a documentary on the actual practice in convent. It is the same thing that inspire all that Sister snuff. Yet you seem to consider your stuff as somehow above this .
Because "my stuff" (?) would be the documentary that just happens to (sometimes) include nudity. This is what I've been saying all along.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:See, that last example, just like that “training naked”, does not feel natural at all to me. It strikes me of “How could I find a way to draw a sister naked, and then pretend it is because of some fluff reason”, rather than “What situation would a Sister likely find herself in?”.
Honestly, even the traditional awful snuff with a Slaaneshi marine raping a Sisters feel less contrived and more fluffy/natural, for all its bad taste…
Really, now?
Soldiers on a battlefield get injured. Sometimes in the chest. If they've got a medic, they will receive medical attention. Showing this doesn't seem to be an issue with male soldiers, but I guess women are taboo because omg boobies?
In my opinion, it is indeed more likely to see a Sister receive medical attention than it is for one to get raped by Slaaneshi CSM. On the simple account that the latter makes up maybe 1% of their overall battles, and that Sisters are trained not to get captured alive.
I also consider "accidental" or "coincidental" nudity a lot more tasteful than rape, both because the latter appears more contrived (at the very least in this context), and because unlike the former it does not attack the sanctity of the warrior in question.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Now, you somehow seem to want to see attractive, perfect bodies in illustrations of Sisters.
Now you're just putting words into my mouth.
Perhaps I should reiterate my position, as I have a feeling you're getting bits of what I'm saying wrong.
1. I don't mind nudity in SoB art, be it official or fan. As long as it is tasteful and fits to the theme.
2. Just because I might like to see this from time to time (very much depending on the picture) does not mean I want to see this becoming more common than the fully armoured depiction. I see this as an extension to the whole. It's a part of who they are - as women (breasts), as warriors (being in good shape), and as fanatics (castigation).
3. "Attraction" and "perfect bodies" is very much a matter of personal preferences, but the way you voiced it here sounds like you believe this to be incompatible with who the Sisters are, as if the only valid definition would be some big-breasted Hollywood cutie. What if I told you that muscular bodies can be nice to look at? Even if they have scars? It's an appreciation of the strength and power that these warriors - raised from infancy to become the epitome of human battle prowess - elicit with their every fibre of being.
Hence my earlier example of Riefenstahl's propaganda movie, or those ancient statues of gods and goddesses.
Spoiler:
Only semi-NSFW this time.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:They are knives.
Ah, I guess local traditions differ considerably. I admit I didn't check out the pictures up-close because I've already seen similar ones 1-2 years ago as I read up on the topic of flagellation - and there it was some sort of wooden sticks bound to a rope.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Why would I want to watch the first few minutes of people cutting themselves with knives and spreading blood all over in a display of religious hysteria outside of over-the-top fiction like 40k ?
Because, just like I said, you could replace the people with Sisters and the knives with whips, just like it'd be done in 40k, and how it was actually common in monastic communities.
The knife and wooden sticks thing seems to be a very odd distortion of traditional flagellantism, apparently based on someone thinking that whips don't hurt enough, or perhaps these people just want to see blood spilt quicker than if it was the case with straps of leather. Either way, it's not a very good comparison to what we're talking about here, and I'd argue you have intentionally chosen an exaggerated display in an attempt to lend your words more weight.
Imho, better examples would be the aforementioned Name of the Rose, or Arn the Templar (also a very recommendable movie in general, by the way).
I think it's more that people are a little disgusted by super-muscular women. I hear women aren't into super buff dudes either. There's a limit and being a super roid 'hulk' monster doesn't always fit that.
There's also the issue that society looks down on men that are weaker than women so it can be a bit intimidating to want a woman stronger than the guy in question. There's also a similar thing with men and women when gaming. Honestly skill matters but if i'll be made fun of for being beaten by a girl no matter who says it then it makes me want to play against them less. In a sense I'm less worried about what me or often the girl think so much as what everybody else is taunting me with. Normally I feel more insulted when a less experienced person beats me at something. I feel like experience should have a lot of say so when an inexperienced person beats someone that is more experienced it's like a slap in the face to all the time spent honing your craft.
flamingkillamajig wrote: I think it's more that people are a little disgusted by super-muscular women. I hear women aren't into super buff dudes either. There's a limit and being a super roid 'hulk' monster doesn't always fit that.
There's also the issue that society looks down on men that are weaker than women so it can be a bit intimidating to want a woman stronger than the guy in question. There's also a similar thing with men and women when gaming. Honestly skill matters but if i'll be made fun of for being beaten by a girl no matter who says it then it makes me want to play against them less. In a sense I'm less worried about what me or often the girl think so much as what everybody else is taunting me with. Normally I feel more insulted when a less experienced person beats me at something. I feel like experience should have a lot of say so when an inexperienced person beats someone that is more experienced it's like a slap in the face to all the time spent honing your craft.
That's a problem that people, and society, are going to need to get over. Women (nor men) do not exist to please an audience.
Lynata wrote: I certainly would be curious as to how exactly this perception came to be. Aren't you?
No, I am not. Whatever those simplistic guys want to believe is their business .
Lynata wrote: Because "my stuff" (?) would be the documentary that just happens to (sometimes) include nudity. This is what I've been saying all along.
Maybe there is some misunderstanding then. The propaganda movie you mentioned (not a documentary, but that is the closest you mention) was about “glorification of the human (aryan) body”, so I understood you were speaking about putting particularly healthy and attractive bodies, not just nudity. Your other examples (statues from Ancient Greece and Rome) and especially the text that came after (“In these cases, what can make it sexy is the sheer purity of essence - an attractive body coupled with the specific absence of a sexualised pose.”) seemed to emphasize that.
Lynata wrote: Soldiers on a battlefield get injured. Sometimes in the chest. If they've got a medic, they will receive medical attention. Showing this doesn't seem to be an issue with male soldiers, but I guess women are taboo because omg boobies?
I do not think I ever saw a picture of a wounded guardsman that would normally wear armor on his chest as part of his uniform, but was bare chest because some medic needed to heal him. And I think I know why: most weapon capable of piercing the armor of, say, a Cadian, will leave his chest a bloody pulp. Now, imagine what some weapon capable of piercing power armor would do to some human chest! Honestly, the problem here is showing something that you would never show with male soldier, because nobody is interested in seeing the wounded chest of a Cadian or a Marine when it requires to defy common sense like that! But if I am wrong and you have multiple examples of drawing of Cadian and Marines removing their chest armor to be healed, please provide them. Given how much more official artwork there is on those than on Sisters, it should not be hard, should it?
Lynata wrote: In my opinion, it is indeed more likely to see a Sister receive medical attention than it is for one to get raped by Slaaneshi CSM. On the simple account that the latter makes up maybe 1% of their overall battles, and that Sisters are trained not to get captured alive.
Receive medical attention, yes. Remove all chest armor in the middle of a battle? And where did you find that Sisters are trained not to get captured alive? Also by that logic, there should be no picture of Grey Knight ever, and billions of pictures of orks.
Lynata wrote: I also consider "accidental" or "coincidental" nudity a lot more tasteful than rape, both because the latter appears more contrived (at the very least in this context), and because unlike the former it does not attack the sanctity of the warrior in question.
I agree it is more tasteful, I disagree it appears more contrived. On the contrary, “accidental” nudity happening all the time to female characters and basically never for male characters seems goddamn contrived to me. Especially when Emperor's Children are known for doing that to you before turning you into a drug and snorting you.
Lynata wrote: 1. I don't mind nudity in SoB art, be it official or fan. As long as it is tasteful and fits to the theme.
Me too, but I disagree with you on what fits the theme.
Lynata wrote: 2. Just because I might like to see this from time to time (very much depending on the picture) does not mean I want to see this becoming more common than the fully armoured depiction. I see this as an extension to the whole. It's a part of who they are - as women (breasts), as warriors (being in good shape), and as fanatics (castigation).
Why have it more often than for marines of guardsmen? I mean, apart from the obvious case of Repentia that always go naked, and for a reason.
Lynata wrote: What if I told you that muscular bodies can be nice to look at?
Tell me about it! There is this very muscled girl where I go climbing that has been in sport bra for the last two seance, seeing all the muscle of her back moving while she was climbing was just mesmerizing. Not sexy by any measure, but definitely a very nice sight. However, 40k is more home to bionics and body horror, especially in “grimdark” armies like the Sisters. Catachan are the exception to that rule .
Lynata wrote: Hence my earlier example of Riefenstahl's propaganda movie, or those ancient statues of gods and goddesses.
Well, neither statues of goddess, nor La liberté guidant le peuple include much muscle, or any kind of athletic build.
Lynata wrote: Ah, I guess local traditions differ considerably. I admit I didn't check out the pictures up-close because I've already seen similar ones 1-2 years ago as I read up on the topic of flagellation - and there it was some sort of wooden sticks bound to a rope.
No idea. I just made a google image search on Ashura. Wkipedia says nothing about wooden sticks, it speaks only of knives and blade at the end of chains.
Lynata wrote: The knife and wooden sticks thing seems to be a very odd distortion of traditional flagellantism, apparently based on someone thinking that whips don't hurt enough, or perhaps these people just want to see blood spilt quicker than if it was the case with straps of leather.
Hey, you know it is not the same religion, do you not? You know, Shia Islam and stuff. I mean, rather than bizarre speculation, just read the Wikipedia page on Ashura or something.
Lynata wrote: Either way, it's not a very good comparison to what we're talking about here, and I'd argue you have intentionally chosen an exaggerated display in an attempt to lend your words more weight.
Imho, better examples would be the aforementioned Name of the Rose, or Arn the Templar (also a very recommendable movie in general, by the way).
I have seen neither of those movies, but I am pretty sure 40k is all about turning everything up to eleven. Repentia on that picture I like so much are pretty much that, Ashura turned up to eleven. Have you looked at them?
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Maybe there is some misunderstanding then. The propaganda movie you mentioned (not a documentary, but that is the closest you mention) was about “glorification of the human (aryan) body”, so I understood you were speaking about putting particularly healthy and attractive bodies, not just nudity. Your other examples (statues from Ancient Greece and Rome) and especially the text that came after (“In these cases, what can make it sexy is the sheer purity of essence - an attractive body coupled with the specific absence of a sexualised pose.”) seemed to emphasize that.
I'm not sure - I mean, we're talking about Battle Sisters here. Barring old age or particularly bad injuries, I just cannot imagine them not looking healthy and, depending on one's taste, attractive.
That being said:
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Tell me about it! There is this very muscled girl where I go climbing that has been in sport bra for the last two seance, seeing all the muscle of her back moving while she was climbing was just mesmerizing. Not sexy by any measure, but definitely a very nice sight.
Are you sure it does not qualify as sexy if it's mesmerising?
I dunno, maybe we're talking a bit past one another here, and my definition of "sexy" is broader than yours. When I say "sexy", it does not have to refer to something you can masturbate to, but something that is just ... well, nice to look at. I think you could say I'm using it as an alternative for "attractive", though this term doesn't feel quite right either.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:I do not think I ever saw a picture of a wounded guardsman that would normally wear armor on his chest as part of his uniform, but was bare chest because some medic needed to heal him. And I think I know why: most weapon capable of piercing the armor of, say, a Cadian, will leave his chest a bloody pulp. Now, imagine what some weapon capable of piercing power armor would do to some human chest!
Honestly, the problem here is showing something that you would never show with male soldier, because nobody is interested in seeing the wounded chest of a Cadian or a Marine when it requires to defy common sense like that!
But if I am wrong and you have multiple examples of drawing of Cadian and Marines removing their chest armor to be healed, please provide them. Given how much more official artwork there is on those than on Sisters, it should not be hard, should it?
This is a bit of an unfair task, given that - as you well know - 40k does not place a great deal of importance upon medical aid as opposed to "the cool stuff" of killing and maiming.
That being said, WD #102 has an article about Apothecaries that does feature a medevac of a Crimson Fists Marine with a huge hole in his chest where both the armour and the skin have melted away, exposing the flesh underneath.
There are also multiple pictures of naked Marines undergoing geneseed implantation in the Index Astartes.
The assumption that anything that damages power armour must automatically wreak havoc to the soft bits it encloses is flawed. Most often this will probably be the case, yet there will be numerous times where the armour took sufficient energy out of the attack to soften it sufficiently to make it non-lethal. The explosion of a bolter round or a las blast, for example, could just punch a really big hole into the armour, yet with the center of said detonation being situated outside of the wearer's body (namely within or on the surface of the armour), the body below could take comparatively light damage.
And in fact, this is exactly how it works in GW's own d100 game, Inquisitor.
What do you think the Hospitaller's FNP buff stands for?
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:And where did you find that Sisters are trained not to get captured alive?
Okay, in retrospect I recall this aspect being specifically pointed out only in licensed material such as DoW or Faith & Fire. I believe it to be quite fitting, almost a matter of common sense given the army's focus on martyrdom, so I adopted it for my interpretation. If you feel differently and think Sisters would just allow themselves to get taken prisoner, simply discard this point please.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Also by that logic, there should be no picture of Grey Knight ever, and billions of pictures of orks.
In-universe? I guess so.
Out-of-universe, as in "taken by an omniscient, invisible observer that accompanies every army in every single battle"? An entirely different story - and what we are really talking about here. Unless you want to tell me all Codex artwork was taken by the Imperium's version of Reuters.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:I agree it is more tasteful, I disagree it appears more contrived. On the contrary, “accidental” nudity happening all the time to female characters and basically never for male characters seems goddamn contrived to me. Especially when Emperor's Children are known for doing that to you before turning you into a drug and snorting you.
I specifically said "I do not want to see this becoming more common than the fully armoured depiction". The thing is, and I suppose this is where we disagree, I also do not want there to be some silly taboo supposed to result in never showing this, ever, regardless of how much it is part of convent life.
Also, ironically, we have more images of naked Marines than we have of naked Battle Sisters.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Why have it more often than for marines of guardsmen?
See above.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Well, neither statues of goddess, nor La liberté guidant le peuple include much muscle, or any kind of athletic build.
With those comparisons I was more aiming at the poses they struck. The physical form of both statues as well as drawn females probably reflected the beauty ideal of their times, and arguably this has changed a lot over the centuries. The very first statuettes and figurines depicting goddesses were basically barrel-shaped, likely in reference to fertility.
That being said ... Venus does seem to sport a slight sixpack.
Spoiler:
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Hey, you know it is not the same religion, do you not? You know, Shia Islam and stuff. I mean, rather than bizarre speculation, just read the Wikipedia page on Ashura or something.
Okay, then you've confused me earlier. I was expecting flagellation, the Christian practice, since we were ... well, talking about flagellation. Not something else.
I've never heard about Ashura until now. Interesting, though.
Anyway, to get back on topic. James Swallow wrote an audio book for the sisters called 'Black and Red' which I enjoyed as we got to hear voice actresses and bolter fire. Look it up, it's pretty fun if short (75 min run time)
Personally, I found the voices just a tad repetetive (there's only two voice actresses, but they speak multiple roles), but I really liked how they made the Tech-Priest's talk sound. Very inspiring, in an RPG kind of sense.
Also, it's a continuation (or rather, a prequel) of Miriya's story, which should be reason enough to get it for anyone who likes SoB.
Lynata wrote: Barring old age or particularly bad injuries, I just cannot imagine them not looking healthy and, depending on one's taste, attractive.
Healthy, maybe, but no reason for attractive, and very repealing bionics and scars are to be expected.
Lynata wrote: Are you sure it does not qualify as sexy if it's mesmerising?
Yeah.
Lynata wrote: When I say "sexy", it does not have to refer to something you can masturbate to, but something that is just ... well, nice to look at.
Let me point the obvious. Sexy include sex. If something is entirely unrelated to sex, does it make sense to call it sexy?
Lynata wrote: This is a bit of an unfair task, given that - as you well know - 40k does not place a great deal of importance upon medical aid as opposed to "the cool stuff" of killing and maiming.
That is why making a special exception but just for Sisters and just by chance happening to use that special exception for a boob shot would feel contrived.
Lynata wrote: That being said, WD #102 has an article about Apothecaries that does feature a medevac of a Crimson Fists Marine with a huge hole in his chest where both the armour and the skin have melted away, exposing the flesh underneath.
Then we do not get to see his skin, right? How does that illustrate your point? Can we see his nipples or something?
Lynata wrote: There are also multiple pictures of naked Marines undergoing geneseed implantation in the Index Astartes.
Really?
Lynata wrote: Out-of-universe, as in "taken by an omniscient, invisible observer that accompanies every army in every single battle"? An entirely different story - and what we are really talking about here. Unless you want to tell me all Codex artwork was taken by the Imperium's version of Reuters.
So, that omniscient invisible observer will quietly wait for a case where an Hospitalier is forced to remove the armor from a militant sister, and anything they may wear underneath the armor, get the right angle to have boobs in its visor, and then take the picture? He would take a picture of that very very rare (compared to, you know, sisters shooting stuff, or sisters dying when being shot at, or sisters getting injury that do not require stripping out of their armor and getting naked) occasion, and display it prominently. But for some reason, the same omniscient invisible observer would not take a picture of a sister being raped by a slaaneshi marine, because those event are too rare?
Lynata wrote: I specifically said "I do not want to see this becoming more common than the fully armoured depiction".
Let us just settle on it happening exactly as often as with male character. That is, basically never!
Lynata wrote: The thing is, and I suppose this is where we disagree, I also do not want there to be some silly taboo supposed to result in never showing this, ever, regardless of how much it is part of convent life.
Guardsmen taking a piss is a part of any regiment's life. I will not mind if there are no artworks of it, because it is not an interesting thing to depict. Or is it?
Lynata wrote: Also, ironically, we have more images of naked Marines than we have of naked Battle Sisters.
In plain number, I am not sure. In proportion, that is completely false.
Lynata wrote: Okay, then you've confused me earlier. I was expecting flagellation, the Christian practice, since we were ... well, talking about flagellation. Not something else.
Well, what the Sister do is not the Christian practice of flagellation, and I was referring to one of the real-world origins of what the Sisters do.
Well, what the Sister do is not the Christian practice of flagellation, and I was referring to one of the real-world origins of what the Sisters do.
Actually, it kinda is. Not just the self-flagellation but also their entire disciplinary lifestyle in the Schola Progena on up to life in the Convent is very much an old-style Catholic school cranked up to 11.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Healthy, maybe, but no reason for attractive, and very repealing bionics and scars are to be expected.
Didn't you just claim that anything that gets through the armour would kill the Sister in question?
And if Col. Straken is any indication, I don't think bionics would be that bad. Well, depending on how much you like or dislike transhumanist cyberpunk, I guess. I didn't appreciate all the "chrome" in Shadowrun at first, but over the years it grew on me. Now I don't mind people with metal arms or legs anymore.
Also, it's a bit ironic how you agree that Andrea Uderzo draws the best Sororitas art, yet claim they shouldn't be attractive. I mean, I certainly thought his Sisters are good-looking. As befits what I think is part of their role - an angelic, idealised representation of humankind as a species.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Let me point the obvious. Sexy include sex. If something is entirely unrelated to sex, does it make sense to call it sexy?
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:That is why making a special exception but just for Sisters and just by chance happening to use that special exception for a boob shot would feel contrived.
You are assuming I would oppose such displays for Marines and Guard. I do not.
In fact, I think 40k could use a couple more pictures that are something different from the usual "guy stands somewhere discharging a weapon", "guy walks towards the observer, a menacing look on his face" and "guy buries a close combat weapon into another guy".
I like to regard this setting as a living, breathing world, and thus it consists of more than weapons fire and ejected bolt shells. I miss the older publications that actually gave us more of a glimpse into the daily life.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Then we do not get to see his skin, right? How does that illustrate your point? Can we see his nipples or something?
If you really want to be splitting hairs - it illustrates my point in that, apparently, it is okay for 40k to show injured soldiers receiving medical treatment. And to treat this kind of wound you'd obviously have to remove the breastplate.
So are you saying that this picture is okay, but they should not show what happens 5 seconds later when they do remove the breastplate?
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Really?
Yeah, here's one.
Spoiler:
There's more, but I don't think there is a reason to go look them up now. Point being: Unlike this Marine, we've never seen a Sister being treated, and according to you, this should never happen.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:So, that omniscient invisible observer will quietly wait for a case where an Hospitalier is forced to remove the armor from a militant sister, and anything they may wear underneath the armor, get the right angle to have boobs in its visor, and then take the picture? He would take a picture of that very very rare (compared to, you know, sisters shooting stuff, or sisters dying when being shot at, or sisters getting injury that do not require stripping out of their armor and getting naked) occasion, and display it prominently. But for some reason, the same omniscient invisible observer would not take a picture of a sister being raped by a slaaneshi marine, because those event are too rare?
You're intentionally being difficult now. I said it would be more likely for such a situation to occur, simply because Sisters get injured in the line of duty every single day.
When do they get to fight against CSM? Of a particular Chaos God? And get taken alive?
Thus, to me, a picture of the latter would feel quite a bit more contrived than the former, simply on account of one being everyday business, the other a once-in-a-century exception.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Let us just settle on it happening exactly as often as with male character. That is, basically never!
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:In plain number, I am not sure. In proportion, that is completely false.
In this post alone, I've shown you two naked Space Marines from official GW art. I can show you more on request.
You go ahead and show me a single picture of a naked Battle Sister now.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Guardsmen taking a piss is a part of any regiment's life. I will not mind if there are no artworks of it, because it is not an interesting thing to depict. Or is it?
Probably not, though I could imagine it as part of a larger scene intended to portray life in a garrison.
The thing is, I believe that stuff like a Sister standing vigil in a tomb is an interesting thing to depict. You may disagree, but you won't be able to convince me.
And maybe that's why we should call a truce, as we obviously have different interpretations of the Adepta Sororitas here, as well as different interpretations of a variety of other things.
Yeesh lynata calm down. You always seem to let internet posts bother you. Just take a few deep breaths and use horse tranquilizers on yourself or something. I have some muscle relaxers from my doctor for severe back pain I got at work recently. Maybe that'll help you. I am off work till further notice though.
I have a question though. Regarding abhumans and some other genetic alterations or bionics how do the sisters view it? I know some ultra radical zealots might hate some of it but I can't remember what things they allowed and what things they strictly didn't (humanity in 40k is ridiculously blind, incompetent, hateful and pretty much every other trait that should see them destroyed in far less than 10,000 years). I haven't really played 40k in the longest time because I prefer fantasy. Over-the-top can be nice but a lot of 40k feels either emo or like a 8-12 year old narrating a story. To each their own I guess. Same reason I can't get lynata to play fantasy. I think he/she would enjoy it immensely though. For a second let's just pretend lynata transcends gender.
Lynata wrote: And if Col. Straken is any indication, I don't think bionics would be that bad. Well, depending on how much you like or dislike transhumanist cyberpunk, I guess.
Well, it is 40k, so I expect bionics to be grimdark and horrible looking and stuff. Like this hole on the head of the repentia sister here :
Seems I used the first definitions of those links, you used the last one.
Lynata wrote: If you really want to be splitting hairs - it illustrates my point in that, apparently, it is okay for 40k to show injured soldiers receiving medical treatment.
Oh yeah, of course it is. My point was more that at least 99% of the medical treatment that Sisters would require on the battlefield would not involve boob-shot, and therefore having, for instance, 50% of the drawing of Sisters receiving medical treatment showing boobs would feel contrived and stupid.
Most medical interventions are going to be about limbs. Those that are going to be about chest damage will likely imply a big gaping hole through the armor anyway, and you would not want to remove the armor in the middle of the battlefield. And I do not expect the Sisters to be naked in their armor, just like nobody was naked under plate armor. I am pretty sure they wear cloth under the ceramite.
Occasionally seeing a boob in one out of many pictures of Sisters receiving medical treatment, okay, maybe, but there are not many pictures of Sisters receiving medical treatment. If we first change the later, then we can imagine the former. Until then, it is just idle discussion about something that is not going to ever happen .
His chest is covered, only his arms and head are actually exposed. How the hell do you call that naked?
I have no problem with art that displays sisters with bare arms, provided their is a reason in context like in this picture. I am pretty sure nobody has.
The picture you show below from Wikia is actually naked, though. Just above in this very post, you will find a naked sister (except if you count those scraps of parchment that does not even cover her breasts or genitals as clothes). And yeah, we do not get a clear view of the sisters breast or vagina, but look again at that weird groin!
So, we have one against one. In plain numbers, we get a tie. In proportion though…
Lynata wrote: You're intentionally being difficult now. I said it would be more likely for such a situation to occur, simply because Sisters get injured in the line of duty every single day.
When do they get to fight against CSM? Of a particular Chaos God? And get taken alive?
How often do the chaos space marines fight grey knight? Would that be a good explanation for asking about no grey knights fighting chaos marines artwork?
Broken links, none of those work. Maybe filtered at the university.
Lynata wrote: The thing is, I believe that stuff like a Sister standing vigil in a tomb is an interesting thing to depict.
Well, maybe. But that “Let us show boobs by using injury as an excuse” seems contrived. Now, a vigil where everything on the picture is to actually emphasize the vigil, and not provide gratuitous fan-service, why not?
For instance, in the pictures you linked here:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/602342.page#6978267 The first one is okay, the second one is really not as good at depicting the mortified body of a repentia as the one at the top of this post imho, and the last one feels like random fanservice with absolutely no intention to relate to the lore. Keeping just one shoulderpad of the power armor? Why? Just why?
flamingkillamajig wrote: Yeesh lynata calm down. You always seem to let internet posts bother you. Just take a few deep breaths and use horse tranquilizers on yourself or something.
Telling people to calm down and then propose them to use horse tranquilizers seems like a good way to infuriate them. Let us keep the discussion nice and civil, please!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Psienesis wrote: Actually, it kinda is. Not just the self-flagellation but also their entire disciplinary lifestyle in the Schola Progena on up to life in the Convent is very much an old-style Catholic school cranked up to 11.
This is one influence. This is definitely not in any way an accurate reproduction.
Personally, I found the voices just a tad repetetive (there's only two voice actresses, but they speak multiple roles), but I really liked how they made the Tech-Priest's talk sound. Very inspiring, in an RPG kind of sense.
Also, it's a continuation (or rather, a prequel) of Miriya's story, which should be reason enough to get it for anyone who likes SoB.
Eeh... unless you're an SoB fan who dislikes Miriya, anyway...
@Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl: Oh no I know lynata enough that I'm pretty sure he/she doesn't mind me. I'm just joking around. We're kind of friends sorta so I'm just joking but mildly serious. Trust me horse tranquilizers might be nice for me right now. My back pain is pretty intense from the sprain I had days ago at work. I just figure it'd be a nice way to calm down like any pill you take for severe pain.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Well, it is 40k, so I expect bionics to be grimdark and horrible looking and stuff.
Eh, probably depends on who gets them, and for what purpose. I'd expect there to be a difference in quality between the millions of "guy looks like a servitor" Administratum clerks, and the well-supplied holy warriors of the state-church.
And it depends on what we would regard as "horrible looking". A shiny chrome port affixed to your skin? Phht.
Like I said, I've gotten used to the Shadowrun look, and it doesn't disturb me nearly as much any more.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Seems I used the first definitions of those links, you used the last one.
Yeah. Sorry, where I work I'm just used to people being aware of both.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:And I do not expect the Sisters to be naked in their armor, just like nobody was naked under plate armor. I am pretty sure they wear cloth under the ceramite.
Now that you mention it, I remember I once theorised a sort of bodyglove underneath, anyways. After all, GW sources described the armour to work by electrically motivated fibre bundles, so personally I'm imagining a Fremen-style "rubber" suit with fibreglass tubes worked into the material. If you look real close at the minis, you can see something like this between the armour joints, and it fits to the pinclose-up of Ephrael Stern in Daemonifuge Book 2.
Now that I think about it, that was the one thing that bugged me about the fan-art I described earlier, with the lamenting Sister ripping off her armour. Not the nudity, but that she apparently wore nothing under the plating. /nitpick
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:His chest is covered, only his arms and head are actually exposed. How the hell do you call that naked?
The guy in the background, behind the two dudes in the front.
And a nitpick: Yours is a Repentia, not a Battle Sister, and I do not consider it "naked" if the breasts are still covered.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:How often do the chaos space marines fight grey knight? Would that be a good explanation for asking about no grey knights fighting chaos marines artwork?
GKs are Anti-Daemon specialists. Personally, I'd imagine CSMs and Daemons to not be that uncommon - even the pathetic excuse that SoB now have as a Codex features one such encounter in what supposedly passes for a "famous battles" section. The 1st Battle of Armageddon, arguably one of the more important events in the setting's timeline, had hundreds of GKs fight against CSM before they engaged Angron.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Keeping just one shoulderpad of the power armor? Why? Just why?
Judging from the appearance of the cloak, it could be the Mantle of Ophelia. If so, it is a badge of office (explaining its use by a Canoness(?) who is otherwise naked), and the pauldrons are a part of it. See the Inquisition Illustrated Guide, which has several images of Sororitas relics.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:This is one influence.
Personally, I think it is the most prominent one. The monastic culture, the tenets of their religion, even their hierarchy.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Telling people to calm down and then propose them to use horse tranquilizers seems like a good way to infuriate them. Let us keep the discussion nice and civil, please!
Heh, well, he kind of has a point still. It was late at night, I had a rather busy day/evening at the office, and I can be quite stubborn in my interpretation of the Sororitas, at least the parts where I'm actually convinced of something making sense.
Though this probably goes for a lot of fans who are passionate about the background of their favourite army.
It's one of the reasons I try to refrain from posting in the background section nowadays - it's no use due to the forum's short memory/attention span, the vast gap between people's conflicting preferences (just look at Ashiraya's comments here or in her stigma thread), and because officially we're all equally right/wrong anyways.
So, apologies for having engaged in this lengthy and rather pointless exchange of opinions. I should have known better, but I'm still trying to change.
flamingkillamajig wrote:Regarding abhumans and some other genetic alterations or bionics how do the sisters view it?
Abhumans are definitely a tricky thing. Sisters are about purity, and the source material even describes them doing surprise raids on other Imperial institutions to conduct tests and simply kill anyone they consider a threat to the human gene pool. Even Space Marines are often looked at with a certain amount of scepticism because of their abhuman traits by the Ecclesiarchy as a whole, though there is a grudging respect between them and the Sororitas in terms of each others' battle prowess.
Bionics probably depends on the extent and quality, and how you interpret the Sisters' concept of the Sacred Human Form. We know they use cybernetic replacements (the Canoness mini has an artificial eye), but given the aforementioned "angelic representation" I believe they'd avoid anything that moves too close into the AdMech's territory of appearing more machine than (wo)man.
Arguably, the Repentia are an exception in this angelic representation (see the image that HSOO posted), but I am of the opinion that the vast majority of them never make it back into the fold anyways, even though officially the possibility exists. 99.9% will simply find martyrdom in battle, and if they're lucky they actually kill someone first rather than just being gunned down as they charge the enemy.
flamingkillamajig wrote:Over-the-top can be nice but a lot of 40k feels either emo or like a 8-12 year old narrating a story.
Depends on where you look, tbh. I mean, the points you listed are what eventually drove me away from Space Marines (with two exceptions), but the setting is fortunately larger than that. Even though GW tends to forget this from time to time.
I think I'm just more of a sci-fi person. I like fantasy, and occasionally delve into it (I'm having a Dragon Age P&P campaign right now, and I played the WHFRPG a couple years back), but even though there are some aspects to the setting that I like, it just doesn't seem as fascinating as a whole.
The choice was made easier by the possibility of just transplanting everything you like in WHFB into WH40k. Feral and Feudal Worlds ftw!
Furyou Miko wrote:Eeh... unless you're an SoB fan who dislikes Miriya, anyway...
@lynata: Even if your sisters haven't been shown proper love with a new codex or their own lives ;P at least it's better in ways than what they do to imperial guard in the fluff. I used to love the imperial guard but they're the punching bags of 40k. People talk about how the best chaos marines can do is sometimes kill off eldar (what I heard from one complaint) and that they aren't as good as space marines for some reason. In the fluff with the last guard codex half of our noted battles were losses. In our own codex. The one before that never showed a single win against anything that wasn't traitor guard, orks, eldar, possibly cultists or some minor faction that needed purging. Our last codex had one noted event of a successful cavalry charge against necrons where we won to everybody's surprise including the guardsmen and the embarrassed necrons if they had emotions back then. We had no noted victories against the tau (though there is a loss where plenty of tau were taken down and a ratling killing an ethereal once by chance), few against eldar, a bunch versus orks, some against splinter fleets of tyranids and not a whole lot else other than traitor guard and cultists. There was probably a few battles where they did do a decent amount and they just usually needed a bajillion guard regiments to do it. In some cases it's like needing 50,000 men to 500,000 men just to handle like 100 chaos marines and we'd still lose.
So I dunno imperial guard or whatever the h*ll they're called these days are updated regularly though the current codex rather made me want a tempestus scions army than a guard army (though they lack options so it's a no go even if they look sexy). I really just want fluff where we beat every faction at least once. I don't think guard have ever been noted to beat tau even once. It's always like a heroic last stand where we get gunned down to a man. It's frustrating. I hate losing all the time whether in the fluff or in the actual game. It's not fun hearing your army suck in some way.
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On the deal with fantasy you don't have skaven in 40k (hrud aren't rat-like anymore), you don't technically have vampires or the undead mechanic (I know there are necrons but they don't totally count), there are no dwarfs (squats are all dead), no ogre army (though there are ogryns) and you have no beastmen since they got taken out. To be fair fantasy doesn't have tau but I don't totally see the need with dwarfs and empire filling that void nicely enough. Some armies are pretty nasty at shooting too even if it's less important in fantasy for the most part.
Uhm, you seem to be missing the point about Guard, jig.
The fact that they bring billions of troops to every battle is a selling point. Its not showing the Guard as weaklings, its showing that they bring overwhelming force.
As for the Tau... do you know how many armies have had a major fluff victory against the Tau?
Two. Dark Eldar and Necrons. Everyone else only mentions the Tau as friendlies or when the Tau are wiping them out.
Anyway, you think regular Guard have it bad? They have victories. They have plenty of victories. Do you know how many fluff victories the Elysian Drop Troops have had? In every single mention of the Elysians ever made, they have had zero war victories. Battles? THey win the occasional battle. But they have not won a single war, even though they always deploy either with the assistance of, or to come to the assistance of, Space Marines.
As a Space Marine, the last thing you ever want to hear is "We've diverted the Elysian Xth regiment to assist you."
Even if you're winning the war and don't actually need help, having an Elysian regiment sent to support you is a death sentence.
Yeah, I think the Guard comes across quite nicely in GW's fluff. They are the most important (and the only truly necessary) military force of the Imperium. Even the Space Marines need them, simply because sometimes raw power > mobility. You just have to embrace that in the projection of this raw power, they often take an incredible amount of casualties as a price to pay for victory. But they have these victories, and quite a lot of them. They have stories, they have characters, and they are the second best-described and most-supported army in the game.
In my opinion, the casualties also make their appearances more realistic, and the Guard as a whole more relatable - whilst supporting the Grimdark atmosphere of the setting.
And Codex Planetstrike mentions a Catachan Guardsman strangling a CSM Lord to death. How cool is that?
Really, those complaints I can't understand.
As for all the WHFB stuff ... you can have all of this in 40k. Because the setting features millions of worlds, out of whom only a fraction have ever been described. Who exactly is going to say that there isn't a planet of skaven-like intelligent rodents out there? Or a primitive Slann offshoot that resembles Lizardmen? You want undead? Plague Zombies! Vampires? Slaaneshi psykers who like the taste of blood and are obsessed with eternal life. Let the creative juices flow!
Well to be fair I've only read mostly the guard book. I find it incredibly stupid that only a few armies seem to have any noteworthy victories against tau (you'd think nids have a few and I think orks once had one victory though I may be mistaken) though I do think it's awesome dark eldar managed one. Haven't heard much on dark eldar killing but maybe that's because they are rarely seen. I remember one ridiculous mention of space marines owning dark eldar though. It seems to happen quite a bit. Speaking of which dark eldar are awesome. I have a few of them on hand and if I got back to 40k I'd get more semi-new dark eldar models.
I wasn't aware of the catachan guardsman strangling a CSM lord to death.
For me my favorite guard regiment are the vostroyan firstborn mostly due to aesthetic but sometimes due to victories. The something-dragoons fought tau a lot if I remember. They sounded cool too. If nothing else I'd just love to model a guardsmen junior officer/platoon commander chainsaw-ing a fire warrior in two in a diagonal arc while shooting him as well with a laspistol and then showing some horribly scraped and cut battlesuit behind him. I also might want to show an xv-9 just spitting out death in a slow tremendous walk while a guardsmen sits scared out of his mind behind a rock right next to it.
Well I know it's about numbers and that that can eventually do anything sorta but against nids sometimes it doesn't help. They talk of marines taking down whole hive fleets like behemoth if I'm not mistaken. For imperial guard we just get beaten by everybody. I almost feel like whenever somebody talks about a story with imperial guard and themselves beating the guard it's just like "Oh who cares we've all beaten guard." Then again I suppose at least guard didn't get beaten by the 'doom of malantai'. We did get killed by the parasite of mortex or whatever it was called though. Ugh just when you thought you'd win the other side pulls something out their *ss to win with though it is their book so whatever.
Marines taking down whole hive fleets was the entire empire of Ultramar, and it was a pyrrhic victory.
Basically the entire western arm of the Imperium were set against Behemoth and the only reason the Space Marines are given the 'win' is because the final battle happened in the skies over Maccrage.
Anyway, the Guard have a good balance of wins and losses - but weighted to the losses to show how the Imperium as a whole is crumbling and on the verge of collapse. If anyone outside a Sisters-specific publication mentions Sisters, its to have them die horribly to show how awesome the villain of the week is.
There's no reason why you can't make a model of your Vostroyan slaughtering some Tau. Just because there are no major engagements between the two in the written fluff doesn't mean they've never fought.
The Dark Eldar 'victory' against the Tau was rather amusing. You see, the Tau were really struggling against the Tyranids in this one battle, and the DEldar showed up and said, "We'll kill them all with you, in return for three cadres of Fire Warriors!"
The Tau being the Tau said "okay!" and... gave them three cadres of fire warriors, then watched the DEldar armies slaughter the 'nids.
Of course, then they were faced with an army of Haemonculous-designed monstrocities made out of the Fire Warriors they'd handed over. If you want to hear more, you should talk to Ovion - he's all over that stuff.
flamingkillamajig wrote: Oh no I know lynata enough that I'm pretty sure he/she doesn't mind me.
He, or she? Or anything in between? Just ask Lynata and be done with this mystery .
Lynata wrote: I'd expect there to be a difference in quality between the millions of "guy looks like a servitor" Administratum clerks, and the well-supplied holy warriors of the state-church.
Me too! But I expect high quality bionics to be grimdark too.
Lynata wrote: A shiny chrome port affixed to your skin? Phht.
No, that seems pretty clean and nice. I am speaking real grimdark here . An oily brass port, maybe. With purple, sick skin around it or something.
Lynata wrote: The guy in the background, behind the two dudes in the front.
Yes, that is the one I am talking about. His chest is covered by metal. Look closer, you should see it too.
Lynata wrote: And a nitpick: Yours is a Repentia, not a Battle Sister, and I do not consider it "naked" if the breasts are still covered.
A repentia is a battle sister, and there is nothing covering her breast. You can even see the nipple!
I am talking about the one with the hole in her head, just to be clear.
Lynata wrote: Judging from the appearance of the cloak, it could be the Mantle of Ophelia.
Uh. Stop trying to rationalize things that make basically no sense.
Lynata wrote: So, apologies for having engaged in this lengthy and rather pointless exchange of opinions. I should have known better, but I'm still trying to change.
But I felt that was nice. You know, trying to make a sound argument, to get my idea together, to debate on some not really important topic for the fun of it…
flamingkillamajig wrote: We had no noted victories against the tau (though there is a loss where plenty of tau were taken down and a ratling killing an ethereal once by chance), few against eldar, a bunch versus orks, some against splinter fleets of tyranids and not a whole lot else other than traitor guard and cultists.
You had Macharius crusade. I do not think a lot of people can beat that. Well, there is the great crusade from the Emperor .
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Yes, that is the one I am talking about. His chest is covered by metal. Look closer, you should see it too.
Nnnnnope, can't say I do. It's a Neophyte getting turned into an Astartes - why should his chest be covered in metal? He's got tubes and various medical equipment stuck into his belly and chest. You can even see his bellybutton.
I think you may just be mistaking his Adonis-like physique and perfectly sculpted abs for a breastplate.
The Repentia, on the other hand, has her breasts (and nipples) covered by a strap of parchment - similar to "Miss Chains 999.M41" in the front. You can see it best just below her armpit, to the right of the small black tube.
And I was specifically asking for a Battle Sister, not a Sister of Battle. There is a difference.
... still, man, why couldn't the minis look more like that picture~
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:But I felt that was nice. You know, trying to make a sound argument, to get my idea together, to debate on some not really important topic for the fun of it…
I dunno, the whole exercise was basically just a long and exhaustive cycle of "this makes no sense" "yes it does".
Lynata is just she-man (he-man) or fe-man (female) of maternia (eternia).
"By the power of '13 shades of grey' skull !!!"
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Sorry I had to get that out of my system. I also find it kind of funny you said "Miss Chains 999.M41". Is this like a beauty pageant now like a miss America contest or miss universe contest? Why do they call it miss universe anyway? I like the futurama and similar jokes where they include other alien species.
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Yeah we did have the macharian crusades but he had like a bajillion guardsmen and it was modeled after alexander the great somewhat. Of course the fight ended with all the generals vying for themselves just like in real life. I dunno I'm just kind of tired of hearing space marines so much. They're like 12 year olds in power armor. I also prefer to imagine they were castrated upon entry like a monk order normally would do.
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I am kind of curious lynata if you're male or female. For a while I thought you were female but then I'm not totally sure. You play more female characters and seem to stand by arguments that seem female sided more. I think that would suggest you're female. Then again I have met somebody on here that was transgendered so it's a rather confusing topic.
You don't have to share if you don't want to but I am curious after all this time not being told for sure. I can understand the apprehension if you are one though since most find it easier to be a guy online or at least not state gender. Not entirely sure why a guy would do that though but there might be a reason even if I can't think of one.
Lynata wrote: You can even see his bellybutton.
I think you may just be mistaking his Adonis-like physique and perfectly sculpted abs for a breastplate.
I colored it to make the details stuck out better. And really, if you can see the belly button but there are no nipples, something is wrong here .
That certainly does not look organic to me at all. That seems clearly some kind of metal thing that is used to do whatever technomagic on his chest..
Lynata wrote: The Repentia, on the other hand, has her breasts (and nipples) covered by a strap of parchment - similar to "Miss Chains 999.M41" in the front. You can see it best just below her armpit, to the right of the small black tube.
What are you talking about? Those black lines are scars, and we see her nipple!
Illustration:
Spoiler:
There is no parchment either on the breast of the leftmost repentia, but we do not see her nipple.
Very good you have 'super magnified nipple vision'. We're all very proud of you . Jeez is it that important? I was more disturbed on the visible nips on the slaaneshi (since it's a family store) before I found out they were dude nips and was even more horrified by the halfway down the middle. That said we find male nips less lewd and really the only big deal is that women boobs are used to feed babies. Then again it's not like men go topless everywhere. Wish it could be that way for women sometimes but then you have the old person nudity and other unwanted nudity. Maybe I'm just too American to get it. I heard a Nordic dudes say that nudity is more a sense of expression and freedom and I totally can not understand. He was actually offended by my perverted nature regarding stuff like topless beaches. I realize it a bit how it can be free but how is the beach a non-perverted place when boobs are everywhere.
Sorry for the rant but I'm just curious. You European folks seem to be way more liberal than the U.S. so I just can't understand.
I rather hate censorship. It ruins everything. Speaking of which I heard germans had robots instead of people in the first command and conquer and lots of the stuff was given fake names where they'd have been more real supposedly. Perhaps lynata can shed some light on his/her home country?
Nobody is arguing for censorship. And symbols of nazism are forbidden in Germany, hence an heavily modified version of the “Wolfenstein” games, for instance. I also think I remember about the government being pretty though against violence in video game back then. Maybe that explains the command and conquer stuff.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:I colored it to make the details stuck out better. And really, if you can see the belly button but there are no nipples, something is wrong here
You can't see nipples because they are covered by tech-stuff.
Artificially altering the image to be more suggestive towards a breastplate will not make me interpret the original piece differently either.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:What are you talking about? Those black lines are scars, and we see her nipple!
And the skin between those pitch-black(?) scars just happens to be in an entirely different shade/colour, too? And those black scars are unique and exclusive to this one Repentia, and only on this one body location which just happens to surround her breasts?
No, I'm not buying it.
I guess these things are something we'll just have to agree to disagree on, too.
flamingkillamajig wrote:I am kind of curious lynata if you're male or female. For a while I thought you were female but then I'm not totally sure. You play more female characters and seem to stand by arguments that seem female sided more. I think that would suggest you're female. Then again I have met somebody on here that was transgendered so it's a rather confusing topic.
You don't have to share if you don't want to but I am curious after all this time not being told for sure. I can understand the apprehension if you are one though since most find it easier to be a guy online or at least not state gender. Not entirely sure why a guy would do that though but there might be a reason even if I can't think of one.
Oh alright. I already mentioned it elsewhere on dakka, anyways, and other posters know it from Teamspeak or address exchanges. I'm male!
I registered with this name on a different 40k forum many years ago just because I played SoB, and this was the name of my HQ (a Palatine). I didn't think too much about it, and eventually resorted to use the same name on other 40k websites for recognition value.
But I admit that, over time, I was getting fascinated by the different treatment that some few people displayed towards this persona (I've never had this occur anywhere before joining dakka), and perhaps began to treat it like some sort of experiment. And it may well be that this has "sensitised" me towards the issue of sexism, which I had pretty much ignored or dismissed before simply because of not being as acutely aware.
Don't get me wrong, now - I don't want to make dakka sound like a horrible place for girls, and it was really just a small minority of users. But part of me still chuckles at how, say, certain users attempted to use my alleged gender to discredit my posts. It's probably better not to give any names, but most people in this thread probably know who I'm talking about.
This has nothing to do with my preference towards female RPG characters, though - for most character concepts I just find a woman to be more refreshing/intriguing, specifically because badass heroines are few and far between in movies and games. That's at least part of why I eventually settled on Sisters of Battle, though. Like many other 40k gamers, my very first minis were a Tactical squad of Ultramarines.
Interesting. I suppose I'm ok with it. It actually makes things less weird. You've still been there for me unlike a bunch of other people. I'll admit I'm confused you seem to take the more female side of arguments as a male though. I can't say that I go that specifically rather than I want or seem to want equality with both sexes. That said I kind of did clean up my language a bit when I thought you were female which is why I stopped with the umm ugh 'masked dildo' villain with the flaming dildo arrows that I told you about earlier. It also confuses me because I expect guys to not be too bothered by the more scantily clad women.
If you ever say part of this is because you have sisters i'll tell you I have a sister and half sister but I find them to both be a pain to live with and controlling which I may have unrightfully extended my opinion of them to other women. To be fair they help me I just never want an over-bearing woman that always tells me what to do. I think people often mistake a woman which is dominant for one that has to be a b**** or at least in movies and other things. I think a good version of a dominant woman was in fallout 3 with 'Riley' of 'Riley's Rangers'. It's her outfit of mercenaries and she calls the shots even if she did hit a rough spot with the super mutant horde at one point. You can still be a leader without being super aggressive or b****y though. It's about having a presence without forcing things on people. Sometimes people have a presence that others look up to and maybe that's a good thing.
As for me on the subject of space marine models owned I have no space marines except for some grey knights which I got before the ward codex. You know as much as everybody hated what he did to them they really needed an update. They lacked a lot of options and had no real answer to fighting vehicles except very limited vehicles. It's a big deal when space marines are updated enough to make grey knights (super marines) which weren't look crappier on the tabletop. I still have like 5-10 grey knights somewhere if I can find them. I guess it's an army I tried starting and never got around to and dark eldar may fill that role soon enough.
Also gotta admit you have good taste with the 'shadowrun' series.
That said this is going far off-topic and I think i'll continue it in a PM where it belongs if you even read those anymore ;P.
Lynata wrote: You can't see nipples because they are covered by tech-stuff.
The whole torso seems covered with tech-stuff to me, hence my point. You spoke about abs, but I do not see any. Certainly none “perfectly sculpted”. I am interested in second opinions, how do other dakkaites interpret the image?
Lynata wrote: Artificially altering the image to be more suggestive towards a breastplate will not make me interpret the original piece differently either.
Well, I zoomed, and used coloring to make the different markings on the maybe-chest stand out more than dark gray on light gray. I also used that to show where I thought the metal started and ended. You are very welcome to color the image to show me what you think is flesh, and what you think is metal. Because there is just no denying that the groin in covered by metal, for instance. Unlike my repentia examples .
Lynata wrote: And the skin between those pitch-black(?) scars just happens to be in an entirely different shade/colour, too?
You know, I thought about it, and I think the black above is the shadow from her armpit, and the black below is the shadow from the breast itself. But I may be wrong. I would like second opinions on that too .
Lynata wrote: But I admit that, over time, I was getting fascinated by the different treatment that some few people displayed towards this persona (I've never had this occur anywhere before joining dakka), and perhaps began to treat it like some sort of experiment. And it may well be that this has "sensitised" me towards the issue of sexism, which I had pretty much ignored or dismissed before simply because of not being as acutely aware.
Don't get me wrong, now - I don't want to make dakka sound like a horrible place for girls, and it was really just a small minority of users. But part of me still chuckles at how, say, certain users attempted to use my alleged gender to discredit my posts. It's probably better not to give any names, but most people in this thread probably know who I'm talking about.
I should try that!
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flamingkillamajig wrote: It also confuses me because I expect guys to not be too bothered by the more scantily clad women.
Furyou Miko wrote: Uhm, you seem to be missing the point about Guard, jig.
The fact that they bring billions of troops to every battle is a selling point. Its not showing the Guard as weaklings, its showing that they bring overwhelming force.
As for the Tau... do you know how many armies have had a major fluff victory against the Tau?
Two. Dark Eldar and Necrons. Everyone else only mentions the Tau as friendlies or when the Tau are wiping them out.
Anyway, you think regular Guard have it bad? They have victories. They have plenty of victories. Do you know how many fluff victories the Elysian Drop Troops have had? In every single mention of the Elysians ever made, they have had zero war victories. Battles? THey win the occasional battle. But they have not won a single war, even though they always deploy either with the assistance of, or to come to the assistance of, Space Marines.
As a Space Marine, the last thing you ever want to hear is "We've diverted the Elysian Xth regiment to assist you."
Even if you're winning the war and don't actually need help, having an Elysian regiment sent to support you is a death sentence.
To be fair, Airborne infantry aren't meant to win wars. They are meant to capture/destroy key targets to allow the advancement of the main force. Examples in real life would be destroying artillery firing onto the beaches of Normandy, capturing Carentan and Operation Market Garden.
Thats why I linked your story - but I think it got lost in the very involved debate about the nature of sisters and their depicition in artwork and minis (that figurs not cars)......
1. Bolter B-Word Privileges: Ginevra begins her Novitiate, the hard way.
2. Ollanius Pius Requiem: Novice Ginevra encounters the Imperial Guard. There is singing.
3. Able Baker: Expect some sort of Inquisition.
4. The Beginning: Every Sister's story begins with tragedy... and paperwork.
5. Dancing with the Astartes: The finale, involving the galaxy's nicest Space Marine, a shopping trip, and permanent scarring. (This story)
Thats why I linked your story - but I think it got lost in the very involved debate about the nature of sisters and their depicition in artwork and minis (that figurs not cars)......
1. Bolter B-Word Privileges: Ginevra begins her Novitiate, the hard way.
2. Ollanius Pius Requiem: Novice Ginevra encounters the Imperial Guard. There is singing.
3. Able Baker: Expect some sort of Inquisition.
4. The Beginning: Every Sister's story begins with tragedy... and paperwork.
5. Dancing with the Astartes: The finale, involving the galaxy's nicest Space Marine, a shopping trip, and permanent scarring. (This story)
Like a musical? Is it like 'the sound of music' or 'fiddler on the roof'. "The hills are alive with the sounds of purging (screaming)." *screams in the background*
Also just wondering what's that Warhammer fantasy fiction about (the one in your signature, A bloody Road)?
Not to totally derail the thread but:
Spoiler:
Its a story set at the time of Storm of Chaos - primarily in and around Untergrad near Middenheim but also with some characters in the approaching army led by Mannfred von Carnstein who seeks to break the siege of the city of the White Wolf as part of his long standing plan to rule the Empire
Main characters:
Sabina, a young (but older than she looks) noblewoman leading a group of veteran mercs in the defence of Untergrad,
Lucarius, High Elf Sea Ranger on a mission,
Hans - former woodsman and Sabina’s right hand,
Viktor von Carstein, reluctant vampire follower of Mannfred
Letta - necromancer in Mannfreds service, she likes to eat and Viktor
Lord Damar, Champion of Tzentch and nasty peice of work
Its a story I enjoy writing and hopefully a few people will enjoy reading :
flamingkillamajig wrote:I'll admit I'm confused you seem to take the more female side of arguments as a male though. I can't say that I go that specifically rather than I want or seem to want equality with both sexes.
In my opinion that is the same thing.
Like I said, it hasn't always been that way, but I suppose my "epiphany" is a result of some of the stuff I had to read on dakka, coupled with sheer coincidence: a budding interest in female heroines due to rarity, and the "underdog" role of women trying to defy traditional gender roles. Half my squad during my time with the German Air Force were girls, too, and being deployed together with them kind of created a bond whose memory makes me feel a bit sad for humanity every time I witness unequal treatment.
I suppose you could say I'm some kind of a "white knight" due to a rather high sense of idealism. Which is a bit ironic, really, because I tend to be incredibly cynical. Then again, the cynicism may just be a result of said ideals clashing with the reality of our current world.
Anyhow, just read this, maybe it helps!
Spoiler:
flamingkillamajig wrote:Also gotta admit you have good taste with the 'shadowrun' series.
Thanks!
flamingkillamajig wrote:That said this is going far off-topic and I think i'll continue it in a PM where it belongs if you even read those anymore ;P.
I actually read every PM I get, but I'm bad at regular correspondence.
One of the reasons for why I think dakka ought to have a chatroom!
Yeah but just because the world is a certain way doesn't mean it can't change or that you can't enjoy things despite the bad.
It kind of sucks though since outside of school my social interaction has gone to crap. In a way it's good just for getting you to interact with others even if the bad is included.
I don't hate women so much that I don't like anything that they tend to like. Seriously I'm trying to like them for reasons other than sexual ones but in general I don't find any women that think like I do or at least have interests like video games. I'm actually kind of sad that few women seemed to play actual video games or at least these days. I'm also a lot pickier than I seem to be. I'd figure a decent looking girl that's a gamer with some common ground would be nice but I just can't find one (chances are the rarity allows them to probably date guys that'd normally be out of their league otherwise as I've heard happens with military women sometimes). I should get out more.
Anyway I'm seriously de-railing this thread so i'll go more on topic.
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You can always join my forum lynata (the one in my signature). I have a couple friends that visit once in a while and post and they often mostly talk about 40k. Sure it's a skaven forum but we often don't talk about that. Prayers to the horned rat that we get a new army book soon.
The offer is still up for talking in a chat room or a form of messenger system if you're up for it. I know that you think electronic words and numbers are the devil so you purify them by burning your computer but you shouldn't be so afraid to socialize a little even if just online.
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More on topic I read a bit of the sisters of battle fan-fiction with shopping and scarring (mental and physical). What I read of it was decent though some bits of it felt weird and out of place for 40k.
If we're talking bad fan-fiction I think somebody somewhere wrote a fan-fiction of melissia and some other female member of another forum. It may have been melissia that wrote it (if not I might ask the writer to seek help if they did so without the other forumite's permission). It had lesbian moments and was rather weird. I'd rather not talk about it.
You mean the weird fan-fic I heard of 2 people on another forum. That kind of stuff needs to be done with permission if at all. I still hate melissia though but I wouldn't write a weird fan fic on her.
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Anyway does anybody recommend any good 'sisters of battle' fan fiction that doesn't involve anything like creepy weird well unless it's the creepy weird of 40k like skull probes of infants (somebody had a comic on that somewhere actually but I can't remember the name). The mother became a lobotomized servitor with her dead baby that she tried to protect as some sort of weird skull probe thing on her. Can't remember the original story but the author also wrote a story on a female commissar with a crazy female psyker and a riches to rags barely psychic girl that escaped being eaten by the emperor due to her noble father's wealth. I think the people here would've enjoyed the story. It was about some imperial guard regiment but I can't dig up the memory of the author of the comic or the name of the stories. I know it was on 'deviant art' somewhere.
I am not sure what the virgin stuff is supposed to mean. Anyhow, I am pretty sure once you get above, say, 30, it carries the same stigma regardless of gender.
I am not sure what the virgin stuff is supposed to mean. Anyhow, I am pretty sure once you get above, say, 30, it carries the same stigma regardless of gender.
Wait, what? Why the hell do you hate her? I think she is nice.
That does seem a very strong word - never met her - have enegaged in discussions with her and never felt anything like that or anyone else on the forum - not matter how much we might disagree?
@Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl: I'm not sure if it's the same in france as it is in the U.S. or maybe other places but if you're a male and still a virgin much later than everybody else (like into your 20's and beyond) it's not something people look highly on or at least it's not something guys would like to talk about. I'm sure quite a few people here would understand the feeling.
flamingkillamajig wrote: @Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl: I'm not sure if it's the same in france as it is in the U.S. or maybe other places but if you're a male and still a virgin much later than everybody else (like into your 20's and beyond) it's not something people look highly on or at least it's not something guys would like to talk about. I'm sure quite a few people here would understand the feeling.
Yeah, but I think it is not specific to male. If you are in your thirties, you are not supposed to be virgin whether you are male or female.
Beside, just give a look to easysauce's signature .
You mean the weird fan-fic I heard of 2 people on another forum. That kind of stuff needs to be done with permission if at all. I still hate melissia though but I wouldn't write a weird fan fic on her.
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Anyway does anybody recommend any good 'sisters of battle' fan fiction that doesn't involve anything like creepy weird well unless it's the creepy weird of 40k like skull probes of infants (somebody had a comic on that somewhere actually but I can't remember the name). The mother became a lobotomized servitor with her dead baby that she tried to protect as some sort of weird skull probe thing on her. Can't remember the original story but the author also wrote a story on a female commissar with a crazy female psyker and a riches to rags barely psychic girl that escaped being eaten by the emperor due to her noble father's wealth. I think the people here would've enjoyed the story. It was about some imperial guard regiment but I can't dig up the memory of the author of the comic or the name of the stories. I know it was on 'deviant art' somewhere.
Um, yeah. My story. You can find the link several times on the first page. There's nothing weird in a WTF kinda way.
Sounds good MWHistorian and I think it'll get this thread back on topic even if I de-railed it ;P. I'm rather curious about the one lynata showed that showed the dying sister of battle coughing up blood.
Since its summer I got free time on my hands and I am going to read the Horus Heresy books on loan from a friend but wondered if there was any good sisters of battle fan fiction. I got links to some decent Dark Eldar fanfic recently so wondered if there was anything similar for the sisters of battle?
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