Ok, so Warhammer 40k is filled with a lot of ambiguous scenarios. Despite it, It is my favorite sci fi universe.

Anyway, every single time I see a picture of a SM, he's standing mighty, with a bolter in one hand and a sword in the other but I can't help but notice how bare their wastes are. Zero ammo pouches, zero. Sometimes they have a grenade or two, but that's it. ?? They kill hundreds of enemies yet all they came with was a loaded bolter and a sword (or some kind of melee weapon)? The pictures I believe are just to make them look pretty I guess.

Now Captain Loken of the Horus Heresy series, I once read a battle where it mentioned he possessed 8 bolter sickle mags. Going by the average sickle mags, they carry 30 rounds. That's about 240 rounds. Half those bolts will probably be used as suppressive fire, no doubt. This leaves 120 left. They will be used as accurate shots and considering a SM's aim, (and a captain at that) he'll most likely land 105 of those left over bolts with a 90% fatality rate. Does that sound alright for a SM? Or should they carry a few more mags?

The equipment I believe a normal tactical marine should carry into battle includes:

•A bolter
•13 bolter mags (4 3-clip pouches with sickle mags plus one in the gun)
•A bolt pistol with 2 backup mags.
•A combat blade
•2 frag grenades
•2 krak grenades

Any opinions or comments, please let them flow.

Always found it humorous that the ten man cadian kit had tactical pouches for everybody as well as grenades whilst sm just have backpacks.


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And there are guard bits for backpacks as well.

I understand why you think that. The old background indicated that an entire game only represented about 90 seconds to 4 minutes on the battlefield. 240 rounds is probably enough for two minutes

Think of all his dead comrades as well, he could just pick up a full discarded clip.

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:
Always found it humorous that the ten man cadian kit had tactical pouches for everybody as well as grenades whilst sm just have backpacks.


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And there are guard bits for backpacks as well.

And lasgun mags carry like, roughly 150 shots. Grab five mags and and a couple grenades they're good to go. Really three is good enough. SM's get a gun and backpack -_-

There are probably company serfs running around feeding them ammo as well.

PastelAvenger wrote:
Think of all his dead comrades as well, he could just pick up a full discarded clip.

For some reason, you reminded me of the russians when they fought at Stalingrad. Half of their soldiers were given a clip and instructed to follow somebody who already had a rifle and wait for their eventual death because they didn't have enough weapons and ammo.

But luckily, SM's are much more fortunate. They got plenty of ammo and weapons, if only GAMES-WORKSHOP WOULD DISLPAY IT PROPERLY! Lol

For one, you're forgetting that C/SM kits come with ammo pouches, just that they're over-sized and clunky and a pain in the ass to paint. Also, the art is stylized and isn't consistent, it's nothing more than a pretty picture to look at.

Astartes are constantly referenced having webbing with ammo pouches on them. Plus Power Armor is magnetized, so ammo pounches with iron in them would work like a fridge magnet. The only realistic art of Space Marines I've seen is this one from the Space Marine Codex.



The Ultramarine looks like he's got all kinds of s*** strapped onto the small of his back.

I think the artwork wants to mirror the miniatures to one degree or another and the minis really can't mount that many mag pouches without making posing them awkward. The new Tac squad kit doesn't give that many pouches either.

I think a flimsy lore justification for this is that Space Marines are primarily shock troops that go in, dakka down the key enemy positions and book it to the next area. They wouldn't as many mag pouches because their craft (Rhinos, Drop Pods, Thunderhawks etc) would resupply them. It falls apart when you consider that gak can hit the fan really quick and they'll end up stuck without support frequently. Since they didn't bother bringing spares they end up having to fight people with their CCWs and fists.

Does it bother anyone else that Space Marines only come with straight mag pouches? That would be such a pain in the ass to get pouches in and out of. Unless Marines only have one or two banana mags and the rest are straight ones.

What equipment would they take? I could see the following.

3 Frag and 3 Krak Grenades.

Boltgun

Bolt Pistol

Combat Knife

10 Spare Magazines

A cleaning kit for their Boltgun.

Emergency water and rations.

THere are several pieces of artwork in Imperial Armour books that show Marines with their full gear. The one that immediately springs to mind is the Raven Guard Scout from Raid on Kastorel-Novem.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I think the artwork wants to mirror the miniatures to one degree or another and the minis really can't mount that many mag pouches without making posing them awkward. The new Tac squad kit doesn't give that many pouches either.

I think a flimsy lore justification for this is that Space Marines are primarily shock troops that go in, dakka down the key enemy positions and book it to the next area. They wouldn't as many mag pouches because their craft (Rhinos, Drop Pods, Thunderhawks etc) would resupply them. It falls apart when you consider that gak can hit the fan really quick and they'll end up stuck without support frequently. Since they didn't bother bringing spares they end up having to fight people with their CCWs and fists.

Does it bother anyone else that Space Marines only come with straight mag pouches? That would be such a pain in the ass to get pouches in and out of. Unless Marines only have one or two banana mags and the rest are straight ones.

What equipment would they take? I could see the following.

3 Frag and 3 Krak Grenades.

Boltgun

Bolt Pistol

Combat Knife

10 Spare Magazines

A cleaning kit for their Boltgun.

Emergency water and rations.

Sounds appropriate. Emergency rations would depend, because I believe SM power armour is fixed with nutrient stabilizers. They're wired and connected to the marine and inject nutrients in his bloodstream and can supply him for a week at least. I'm am not 100% positive but there you have it. I didn't think about boltgun kits but I suppose taking a servitor with you everywhere you go to care for your weapons would get tiring lol. And most marines who carry chain weapons bring a container of gas to refilll in case they run out. So really, it depends I guess. But it is safe to assume that a SM's waste would be pretty stacked with supplies and equipment.

The reason I would think they carry around emergency rations and water is to supply themselves in case they are surrounded with no resupply drops available for extended periods. Same for a cleaning kit because not having one doesn't end well if you are going to be fighting for any length of time.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
The reason I would think they carry around emergency rations and water is to supply themselves in case they are surrounded with no resupply drops available for extended periods. Same for a cleaning kit because not having one doesn't end well if you are going to be fighting for any length of time.

Very true. The vagaries of the far future can be very dangerous and unpredictable, but not for the SM.

"He will bring the foe to battle at a time and manner of his choosing, never himself caught unready or ill prepared for the task at hand." -Roboute Guilliman as laid down in the Apocrypha of Skaros.

Eh, Astartes don't need emergency rations really. They can practically live off concrete if things get dire.

Better to have and not need than need and not have. There could be some situations ((irradiated death worlds, arid deserts and toxic wastelands) where having fresh rations would be better. Besides that you'd be better off with them since you can pack them full of calories.

But I thought the gene seed implants allowed Space Marines to resist toxins rather than be able to obtain nutrition from otherwise inedible objects.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Eh, Astartes don't need emergency rations really. They can practically live off concrete if things get dire.

Actually, SM's still follow the rules for almost all sentient forms. They need edible foods. A SM litterally cannot extract any kind of food source from concrete. I...hope you were joking, or being sarcastic, lol. But they would probably just bring emergency nutrient stims.



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 TheCustomLime wrote:
Better to have and not need than need and not have. There could be some situations ((irradiated death worlds, arid deserts and toxic wastelands) where having fresh rations would be better. Besides that you'd be better off with them since you can pack them full of calories.

But I thought the gene seed implants allowed Space Marines to resist toxins rather than be able to obtain nutrition from otherwise inedible objects.

Well, it's impossible to eat concrete. Concrete has no protein, sugar, nutrients, nothing. No living thing can make any edible use of it and that won't change.

There is a gland that all SM's possess that attacks and eliminates any threatening toxins, allowing them to digest some of the most poisonous foods and be perfectly fine. Geneseed implants does a lot more than that of course, I was just verifying your statement.

I was always fascinated by the Imperial Fists splash page guy.

I agree though, I would like to have some more gear with the kits, or better yet find some suitable alternative. Actually the Scout kits come with some alright looking tactical bits, I'm sure with patience one could achieve the desired effect.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Eh, Astartes don't need emergency rations really. They can practically live off concrete if things get dire.

Actually, SM's still follow the rules for almost all sentient forms. They need edible foods. A SM litterally cannot extract any kind of food source from concrete. I...hope you were joking, or being sarcastic, lol. But they would probably just bring emergency nutrient stims.



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 TheCustomLime wrote:
Better to have and not need than need and not have. There could be some situations ((irradiated death worlds, arid deserts and toxic wastelands) where having fresh rations would be better. Besides that you'd be better off with them since you can pack them full of calories.

But I thought the gene seed implants allowed Space Marines to resist toxins rather than be able to obtain nutrition from otherwise inedible objects.

Well, it's impossible to eat concrete. Concrete has no protein, sugar, nutrients, nothing. No living thing can make any edible use of it and that won't change.

There is a gland that all SM's possess that attacks and eliminates any threatening toxins, allowing them to digest some of the most poisonous foods and be perfectly fine. Geneseed implants does a lot more than that of course, I was just verifying your statement.

I coulda sworn there was some book somewhere where Astartes chowed down on rocks, but for the life of me I can't remember it. At the very least, they can eat pretty much any organic matter in the universe, but yes, pure protein snacks would still be useful. IIRC actually going by Ravenwing, Thunderhawks keep protein drinks on-board for quick refreshment, doubling also as they neutralize the acidic state that builds up in an Astartes' mouth.

Hmm, eating rocks. That would be a bit more than interesting....but yes, a SM can make use of almost all organic life. And they never have to worry about poison considering the toxins are slaughtered by their immune system. I fully believe you about the Thunderhawk refreshments. It makes sense. Nothin like a last minute meal before the heat of battle

Actually, how Marines are able to go so long without eating amazes me. They are huge, they must have a metabolism like a raging furnace.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Actually, how Marines are able to go so long without eating amazes me. They are huge, they must have a metabolism like a raging furnace.

SM's have incredible metabolisms. Not only that, but their armour has nutrient stims. As I explained earlier in the post, it shoots nutrients and protein and all that neccessary stuff straight into their bloodstream. These stims can last a marine an entire week, and even after it runs out marines can go 2-3 days without a meal. Unlike us humans, they dont care for the taste of hot wings or philly cheesesteaks, as long as they are able to perform in combat, thats all they care about. As inconvienient and uncomfortable it would be for us having nutrient stims pumped into our bloodstream for an entire week, a SM couldn't give a s***....literally, haha

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Actually, how Marines are able to go so long without eating amazes me. They are huge, they must have a metabolism like a raging furnace.

SM's have incredible metabolisms. Not only that, but their armour has nutrient stims. As I explained earlier in the post, it shoots nutrients and protein and all that neccessary stuff straight into their bloodstream. These stims can last a marine an entire week, and even after it runs out marines can go 2-3 days without a meal. Unlike us humans, they dont care for the taste of hot wings or philly cheesesteaks, as long as they are able to perform in combat, thats all they care about. As inconvienient and uncomfortable it would be for us having nutrient stims pumped into our bloodstream for an entire week, a SM couldn't give a s***....literally, haha

Even without the armor, they can go a long while without eating. There was a short story in the Space Marine omnibus where the Crimson Fists found their Scout Company Captain/Sergeant (can't remember which) with his scout marines on an Ork planet. They'd gone for something like half a year or more without food. They were emaciated skeletons, but most of them were alive.

In the Army we dumped our packs and only carried ammo, weapons, knife and water when going into combat. I imagine its the same thing.

But lack of lots of ammo pouches is troublesome.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Actually, how Marines are able to go so long without eating amazes me. They are huge, they must have a metabolism like a raging furnace.

SM's have incredible metabolisms. Not only that, but their armour has nutrient stims. As I explained earlier in the post, it shoots nutrients and protein and all that neccessary stuff straight into their bloodstream. These stims can last a marine an entire week, and even after it runs out marines can go 2-3 days without a meal. Unlike us humans, they dont care for the taste of hot wings or philly cheesesteaks, as long as they are able to perform in combat, thats all they care about. As inconvienient and uncomfortable it would be for us having nutrient stims pumped into our bloodstream for an entire week, a SM couldn't give a s***....literally, haha

Even without the armor, they can go a long while without eating. There was a short story in the Space Marine omnibus where the Crimson Fists found their Scout Company Captain/Sergeant (can't remember which) with his scout marines on an Ork planet. They'd gone for something like half a year or more without food. They were emaciated skeletons, but most of them were alive.

Exactly. That's quite a story there, but yes, such is the fortitude of a super human. They are too good for food haha


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 MWHistorian wrote:
In the Army we dumped our packs and only carried ammo, weapons, knife and water when going into combat. I imagine its the same thing.

But lack of lots of ammo pouches is troublesome.

You served in the U.S. army?

Stranded on an Ork planet?

There is literally no excuse for going hungry as a Space Marine under those circumstances! Orks are edible!

Hmm maybe roast first, char grilled ork with as side dish of gretchin and squig for desert.

Yummy lol

I think the most tactical space marine pic is the Raptor one. BTW why do space marine bullets look so oversized in the clips? It looks like they only carry like 7 rounds in a mag.
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100731095626/warhammer40k/images/4/4c/Raptor_Taros.jpg

Space marines don't need any of that malarkey. There are frequent ammo dumps throughout every level conveniently placed for whenever space marines run low on ammo. There are also frequent alternative weapon caches fir them to use.

And they don't need med kits. They just need to execute their enemies in a rather amusing and gratuitous fashion and they regenerate.

This post is in jest, for the record.

One of the Space Marine implants is a Pre-Stomach, that breaks down inedible materials to make them consumable. A second organ in the back of the throat alerts them to genuinely inedible or deadly material. Between those, acidic saliva and the Oolitic Kidney to break down almost all poisons, they can practically eat anything. I'm sure their body could find a use for the minerals present in concrete too.

 Deadshot wrote:
One of the Space Marine implants is a Pre-Stomach, that breaks down inedible materials to make them consumable. A second organ in the back of the throat alerts them to genuinely inedible or deadly material. Between those, acidic saliva and the Oolitic Kidney to break down almost all poisons, they can practically eat anything. I'm sure their body could find a use for the minerals present in concrete too.

No, I promise you they cannot eat concrete. The preomnor organ allows a marine to eat dangerous and poisonous food sources but it doesn't say they can magically produce nutrition from otherwise unedible foods...such as concrete. It's just impossible, it cannot be done.

 Deadshot wrote:
One of the Space Marine implants is a Pre-Stomach, that breaks down inedible materials to make them consumable. A second organ in the back of the throat alerts them to genuinely inedible or deadly material. Between those, acidic saliva and the Oolitic Kidney to break down almost all poisons, they can practically eat anything. I'm sure their body could find a use for the minerals present in concrete too.

The Neuroglottis and the Preomnor do not allow Space Marines to obtain proteins, fats and other sources of energy humans need from concrete (Or any other inedible object). They may find minerals but not nearly enough to sustain them. Or anyone for that matter.

What these organs can do is allow them to eat poisonous animals or plants with less worry. I still would imagine that the Chapter Master/Captains would rather prefer that Marines eat prepackaged rations than stuff they found lying around. You do not want troops as invaluable as Space Marines to be incapacitated because they found a toxin that their organs can't filter.

Well, there's a few things I think need to be considered:

1) Space Marines are highly trained, and have the benefit of advanced targetting systems/weaponry. They're probably more likely to hit what they shoot at. Therefore, they need less ammo than your average rifleman, as less will miss.

2) Space Marines are far more likely to shoot to kill than the average infantryman today, they're indoctrinated to kill from the start, and in most cases they aren't facing an enemy they can reasonably find compassion for. Boltguns are also incredibly powerful weapons. Anything that does get hit is very likely to be killed/disabled. Therefore, they need less ammo than your average rifleman, as they will have a more efficient kill/shot ratio.

3) Space Marines face enemies that suppression fire isn't useful/viable against. Thinks like Orks, Tyranids or Khorne Beserkers don't fear death/are too busy fantasising about chopping the Marine into little pieces. Whereas an infantryman would use a huge amount of ammunition in suppressing the enemy, Space Marines are often shooting to kill rather than suppress.

4) Space Marines are far more likely to engage in close combat with the enemy than your average human. Things like bayonet charges have been out of fashion on Earth for a good long while, in the 40K universe there's tons of wargear specially designed to kill enemies up close. Moreover, potential battlefield threats are more likely to engage close up. So Marines need less ammo as part of their task involves punching things rather than shooting them.

5) Marines have far more heavy support available to them. Devastators carry a heavy weapon each, and these weapons are often more powerful than contemporary ones. They can lay down a lot more firepower, and thereby take some of the burden off the average Marine. If we equate a heavy bolter to a modern HMG, that would give a full TOE Marine company a potential 14 HMGs. That's not counting Dreadnoughts, which also bring substantial organic firepower to a Marine Company. Compare that to a modern rifle company, and there's more organic fire support. Thus, less ammo is needed.

I'd think it varies depending on the intensity/length of the action. A Marine force going for a long patrol might carry far more rounds than a modern infantryman, as might a force preparing for a massive assault by the enemy. As Marines are a lot stronger than normal humans, I doubt they'd really carry less ammo. Though I guess a force needing to move quickly, say a recon mission or relief force, might well strip down to a bare minimum. Even if each Marine packs only one spare mag, that's 60 rounds each. If only half of those hit, and only half of those take out the target, they've still killed 15 each, and have Bolt Pistols/Knives remaining.

I think that Anvil got it about righ5 with their black ops 3rd party troopers

http://www.anvilindustry.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=77_107

I'm not saying they can. I'm.saying they could pass concrete through their systems with likely little damage, and possible extract minerals like iron or calcium for example (if present). Not magically absorb protein or vitamin D.

 Musashi363 wrote:

You served in the U.S. army?

Speaking from experience I would feth the blade off altogether and take more ammunition.

I always used to see cowboy mercenaries and chicken-gak outfit soldiers and sailors swanning around in Iraq and Afghanistan with gakky knives hanging off all of their kit and shake me head in amusement.

I saw one guy with a stabbing blade on the back of his belt, a knife on his leg, and one hanging off the front of this tactical vest. Its pure vanity and simply looks good on the movies.

Take more ammo for the bolter, its all gone to gak if you need to go down to pistols, let alone whipping out a knife. If you have expended all of that ammo, you can probably pick up an slain foes Choppa or something instead if you really need to.

3d4d1371f0a897e7b1fc40af46fd501a.jpg]

 mattyrm wrote:
Speaking from experience I would feth the blade off altogether and take more ammunition.

I always used to see cowboy mercenaries and chicken-gak outfit soldiers and sailors swanning around in Iraq and Afghanistan with gakky knives hanging off all of their kit and shake me head in amusement.

I saw one guy with a stabbing blade on the back of his belt, a knife on his leg, and one hanging off the front of this tactical vest. Its pure vanity and simply looks good on the movies.

Take more ammo for the bolter, its all gone to gak if you need to go down to pistols, let alone whipping out a knife. If you have expended all of that ammo, you can probably pick up an slain foes Choppa or something instead if you really need to.

Yeah, more ammo for the bolter, 20 mags. Done

 mattyrm wrote:
Speaking from experience I would feth the blade off altogether and take more ammunition.

I always used to see cowboy mercenaries and chicken-gak outfit soldiers and sailors swanning around in Iraq and Afghanistan with gakky knives hanging off all of their kit and shake me head in amusement.

I saw one guy with a stabbing blade on the back of his belt, a knife on his leg, and one hanging off the front of this tactical vest. Its pure vanity and simply looks good on the movies.

Take more ammo for the bolter, its all gone to gak if you need to go down to pistols, let alone whipping out a knife. If you have expended all of that ammo, you can probably pick up an slain foes Choppa or something instead if you really need to.

Unlike modern day soldiers, who if given the choice, would happily grab an enemy's AK if needed, most Marine chapters are like "Umm, no, Xenos weapon, bad!" And would rather fight with bare fists than pick up such an object. Of course, several chapters such as the pragmatic Raptors would have no issue with the likes of a Choppa or Fire Dragon meltagun if they needed a weapon. The likes of Chaos weapons is a no go generally, however if really really desperate, and the Chaplains weren't around, they might resort to "restoring the bolter's purity." Or "sanctifying the ammunition against its true foes."

Plus, Astartes are very good in CQC versus ordinary foes. They are hard to kill and hit with a lot of force so it would make sensse for them to be equipped with combat knives. If I was a Space Marine I would rather have a Chainsword but Codex Astartes and all.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Plus, Astartes are very good in CQC versus ordinary foes. They are hard to kill and hit with a lot of force so it would make sensse for them to be equipped with combat knives. If I was a Space Marine I would rather have a Chainsword but Codex Astartes and all.

Not to mention IIRC said combat knives are monomolecular and unlike real blades of similar sharpness, retain their sharpness with technobabble alloys.

 mattyrm wrote:
Speaking from experience I would feth the blade off altogether and take more ammunition.

I always used to see cowboy mercenaries and chicken-gak outfit soldiers and sailors swanning around in Iraq and Afghanistan with gakky knives hanging off all of their kit and shake me head in amusement.

I saw one guy with a stabbing blade on the back of his belt, a knife on his leg, and one hanging off the front of this tactical vest. Its pure vanity and simply looks good on the movies.

Take more ammo for the bolter, its all gone to gak if you need to go down to pistols, let alone whipping out a knife. If you have expended all of that ammo, you can probably pick up an slain foes Choppa or something instead if you really need to.

Now I feel bad because I end up with 3 knifes on my kit :(

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Stranded on an Ork planet?

There is literally no excuse for going hungry as a Space Marine under those circumstances! Orks are edible!

would you like mushroom people with that?

A Thunderwolf.

 Pyeatt wrote:
A Thunderwolf.

coincidence, I think not!

Well, it's a matter of how long you think it's going to take until they're resupplied. I mean, if you're standing right next to an ammo dump, you're not going to throw a hundred pounds of ammunition onto your body.

Marines are only going to carry around what they're actually going to need right now (plus perhaps a tiny bit more). Given all the references to how good marine logistics are, I dont' think the way things are modeled would actually be that off.

I mean, if I'm going to be part of a "platoon" of marines, up against a few hundred cultists, then I'm really not going to need very much other than a spare mag and a frag grenade or two. Anything more would be lugging around crap that I'm not actually going to use until next time I get resupplied.

Space marines aren't guardsmen. They don't go in for huge battles of endless grinding attrition far away from supply lines. A vast majority of the time they're either used more like raiders or special ops, or have proper supplies on hand.

I wouldn't expect a SWAT team member to be festooned with a dozen ammo clips and a box and a half of grenades, nor would I expect that of space marines.

 Ailaros wrote:
Well, it's a matter of how long you think it's going to take until they're resupplied. I mean, if you're standing right next to an ammo dump, you're not going to throw a hundred pounds of ammunition onto your body.

Marines are only going to carry around what they're actually going to need right now (plus perhaps a tiny bit more). Given all the references to how good marine logistics are, I dont' think the way things are modeled would actually be that off.

I mean, if I'm going to be part of a "platoon" of marines, up against a few hundred cultists, then I'm really not going to need very much other than a spare mag and a frag grenade or two. Anything more would be lugging around crap that I'm not actually going to use until next time I get resupplied.

Space marines aren't guardsmen. They don't go in for huge battles of endless grinding attrition far away from supply lines. A vast majority of the time they're either used more like raiders or special ops, or have proper supplies on hand.

I wouldn't expect a SWAT team member to be festooned with a dozen ammo clips and a box and a half of grenades, nor would I expect that of space marines.

Plus on top of that, if Space Marines are invading, they have orbital superiority. A resupply is just a drop pod away from bringing your squad back up to a fully stocked kit.

If the enemy gains air and/or space superiority that diminishes available support. I would think that Space Marines would carry at least 5 and probably 10 spare mags in case they need to fight on their own for extended periods of time. Then there are enemies like Orks, Imperial Guard, DEldar, Necrons, Chaos Marines, GK, Sisters of Battle and other Astartes that require a bit of ammunition to engage. Yeah, one spare mag isn't going to cut it under most circumstances even if they have available support.

Also, to the guys in Iraq. Did my two tours as well.. good times, bad times, but times indeed, man.

 Ailaros wrote:
Well, it's a matter of how long you think it's going to take until they're resupplied. I mean, if you're standing right next to an ammo dump, you're not going to throw a hundred pounds of ammunition onto your body.

Marines are only going to carry around what they're actually going to need right now (plus perhaps a tiny bit more). Given all the references to how good marine logistics are, I dont' think the way things are modeled would actually be that off.

I mean, if I'm going to be part of a "platoon" of marines, up against a few hundred cultists, then I'm really not going to need very much other than a spare mag and a frag grenade or two. Anything more would be lugging around crap that I'm not actually going to use until next time I get resupplied.

Space marines aren't guardsmen. They don't go in for huge battles of endless grinding attrition far away from supply lines. A vast majority of the time they're either used more like raiders or special ops, or have proper supplies on hand.

I wouldn't expect a SWAT team member to be festooned with a dozen ammo clips and a box and a half of grenades, nor would I expect that of space marines.

Are you kidding me? A spare mag? Im not diving into a tyranid swarm or an ork horde with that. Even Chaos Marines too. I wouldn't be suprised if a captain ordered his company to take 12 boltgun mags, 4 frag frenades and a combat blade if they were fighting orks or nids. Dakka dude, DAKKA!


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 Pyeatt wrote:
Also, to the guys in Iraq. Did my two tours as well.. good times, bad times, but times indeed, man.

Thank you for your service. I don't know the things you've seen but I am grateful you gave your sweat blood and tears to defend what's left of our country.

My grandfather told me a story once. Back during Vietnam, he was working in a factory and he knew these two young guys working there. They must've been 18 or 19. They both got drafted into the army and my grandfather was spared being drafted because of some medical issues but a couple months later, he found out that one of the boys died and the other lost both his legs to a booby trap. Ever since he told me that I couldn't help but be grateful for the sacrifice my soldiers give every day. Salute brother.


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 TheCustomLime wrote:
If the enemy gains air and/or space superiority that diminishes available support. I would think that Space Marines would carry at least 5 and probably 10 spare mags in case they need to fight on their own for extended periods of time. Then there are enemies like Orks, Imperial Guard, DEldar, Necrons, Chaos Marines, GK, Sisters of Battle and other Astartes that require a bit of ammunition to engage. Yeah, one spare mag isn't going to cut it under most circumstances even if they have available support.

Yeah, and the importance of drop pods. They take years to repair and a SM chapter isnt gonna drop one unless they really really need to. So this means...stack up on ammo cuz yo *** aint gettin squat if you run dry. Lol

Wyzilla wrote:Not to mention IIRC said combat knives are monomolecular and unlike real blades of similar sharpness, retain their sharpness with technobabble alloys.

Ceramic, actually. Astartes combat knives are ceramic.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
If the enemy gains air and/or space superiority that diminishes available support. I would think that Space Marines would carry at least 5 and probably 10 spare mags in case they need to fight on their own for extended periods of time. Then there are enemies like Orks, Imperial Guard, DEldar, Necrons, Chaos Marines, GK, Sisters of Battle and other Astartes that require a bit of ammunition to engage. Yeah, one spare mag isn't going to cut it under most circumstances even if they have available support.

Not sure about IG. If they run dry they can always just rip off the treads from their tanks and use them to whip the guardsmen to death. It's not like they haven't done that before.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
If the enemy gains air and/or space superiority that diminishes available support. I would think that Space Marines would carry at least 5 and probably 10 spare mags in case they need to fight on their own for extended periods of time. Then there are enemies like Orks, Imperial Guard, DEldar, Necrons, Chaos Marines, GK, Sisters of Battle and other Astartes that require a bit of ammunition to engage. Yeah, one spare mag isn't going to cut it under most circumstances even if they have available support.

They shouldn't be fighting other marines or Guard units. If they are then either they or the target are heretics. If they are fighting against GK or Sisters they are heretics.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
If the enemy gains air and/or space superiority that diminishes available support. I would think that Space Marines would carry at least 5 and probably 10 spare mags in case they need to fight on their own for extended periods of time. Then there are enemies like Orks, Imperial Guard, DEldar, Necrons, Chaos Marines, GK, Sisters of Battle and other Astartes that require a bit of ammunition to engage. Yeah, one spare mag isn't going to cut it under most circumstances even if they have available support.

Not sure about IG. If they run dry they can always just rip off the treads from their tanks and use them to whip the guardsmen to death. It's not like they haven't done that before.

That's a terrible back up plan. Assuming you can get up towards the tanks, which will be hard without any ranged support, you'll be taking a ton of fire just getting the treads off. Then you'll have to brave through a wall of lasfire, Plasma Gun shots and Melta. You could do it if you were lucky and the Guard regiment in question was poorly equipped but otherwise it's suicidal not to mention stupid.

I'm not sure if you're being serious but that has to be the dumbest combat scene I have ever heard of.

@Deadshot

So? Sometimes Space Marines go to the dark side. That and there will be times where they'll be engaging SoB, GK or and other SM units. The Imperium is stupid like that.

The point was that they shouldn't be fighting GK or SOB, or other loyal Astartes or Guard units, so putting down "If the GK fleet gets superiority" is a waste of breath. If they are planning an anti-GK/SOB/Guard/Astartes campaign, they are traitors. The only factions that matter to mention are the Xenos and Chaos.

Or their orders conflict (ex. SM: I must take this city and save it's citizens! SoB: No, I will purge them! SM: I will save them! Don't dare to try and interfere! SoB: Then you will burn too!) or some other disagreement.

A marine will most certainly want to be stocked with rations, both ready in his PA and some reserves. A huge guy like that will be using a LOT of calories just for his muscles to not melt away even when idle. And as bodybuilders, strongmen and such say it's actually work in itself for them to eat enough high-quality food. A marine who is foraging plants after running out of concentrated protein goop is a marine spending hours on eating every day instead of fighting.

Doombunny wrote:
Things like bayonet charges have been out of fashion on Earth for a good long while

Bayonet charges have been used successfully in Afghanistan.

Apart from weapons, ammunition, medical gear and nutrition, the notable things I would expect to see carried by pretty much any high-tech soldier are:

Rope, tape, chains, zip-ties, straps and other methods of attaching stuff to things, hauling heavy weights into inconvenient places and restraining prisoners. Possibly some climbing gear as well.

Some way to record information and pass it along. To some extent the marine's auto-senses and vox probably handle most of this, but you would expect them to have a pencil and notepad (or an omni-stylus and battle-scroll, if that's more grimdark) and some kind of spray paint as a low-tech backup.

Tools. Marines not only need to maintain their weapons, but also their powered armour. Plus they will often need to interact with damaged or locked electronic and mechanical devices as part of their mission, even if it's just to open up a door. I doubt that you will find any modern soldier without at least a swiss-army knife equivalent somewhere in his gear.

Illumination, signaling and marking equipment. Glow sticks, flares, lanterns, sacred chem candles or whatever. Night vision gear is never perfect and even if it is, it's helpful to be able to mark things out for your air support or allies.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
If the enemy gains air and/or space superiority that diminishes available support. I would think that Space Marines would carry at least 5 and probably 10 spare mags in case they need to fight on their own for extended periods of time. Then there are enemies like Orks, Imperial Guard, DEldar, Necrons, Chaos Marines, GK, Sisters of Battle and other Astartes that require a bit of ammunition to engage. Yeah, one spare mag isn't going to cut it under most circumstances even if they have available support.

Not sure about IG. If they run dry they can always just rip off the treads from their tanks and use them to whip the guardsmen to death. It's not like they haven't done that before.

That's a terrible back up plan. Assuming you can get up towards the tanks, which will be hard without any ranged support, you'll be taking a ton of fire just getting the treads off. Then you'll have to brave through a wall of lasfire, Plasma Gun shots and Melta. You could do it if you were lucky and the Guard regiment in question was poorly equipped but otherwise it's suicidal not to mention stupid.

I'm not sure if you're being serious but that has to be the dumbest combat scene I have ever heard of.

@Deadshot

So? Sometimes Space Marines go to the dark side. That and there will be times where they'll be engaging SoB, GK or and other SM units. The Imperium is stupid like that.

Sounds you are overestimating the effect of Guardsman fire against Space Marine resilience.

Death of Antagonis wrote:There was a flash over his head, and a lascannon shot punched into a Bane Wolf’s gas reservoir. The tank exploded, spreading its angry death for dozens of metres around it. This time, it was the men of the Mortisian Guard whose screams were awful and short, and whose skin was puddling in the road. Bisset’s jaw dropped and he threw himself flat. The Leman Russ’s turret rotated in his direction, and the heavy bolter sponson chugged rounds. The turret hadn’t moved half its arc before a second lascannon beam blasted it from the chassis.

Armoured beings stormed past him. They were terrible, golden angels, and they fell upon the Guard with bolter and chainsword. They savaged the units that had escaped the release of the gas and tore the tanks apart. They were monsters who bore the garb of beauty. They were giants in the service of war turned into art. There were only five of them. There were a hundred times as many Guardsmen, and that was far too few. The battle was even more one-sided than the attack on the rebels had been. Within seconds, hulls had been ripped open, treads yanked from wheels and used as whips, and men scythed into shrieking meat. The Chaos Space Marines stood proudly in the carnage, gods well pleased by their allotment of blood. The surviving rebels emerged from their hiding places. They began to cheer, and the cry was taken up by more and more people pouring into the streets.

Death of Antagonis wrote:With no home world, the Dragons had no infrastructure to produce and properly maintain vehicles. Those they had were for ultimate measures. But what did they need with vehicles when each Space Marine was a main battle tank with legs? Vritras’s spearhead began its destruction of the enemy with fire from the rear. The Devastators of Squad Lanx unleashed their heavy bolters. Rounds with the destructive punch of artillery shells tore the cultists apart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7Oc-pstqpc

Replace Reapers with Death of Antagonis

Also, no claim of marines surviving Battlecannon rounds, none are being sent their way, still, refer to the video above for my opinion on this.

 sing your life wrote:

Doombunny wrote:
Things like bayonet charges have been out of fashion on Earth for a good long while

Bayonet charges have been used successfully in Afghanistan.

Indeed, but they're rare events. Whereas in the 40K universe, every other battle ends with 'Fix cold steel and charge the 17ft tall bio-monstrosity which has swords for hands and shoots acid from its eyes'.

It is difficult for normal humans to fight this kind of speed.

Void Stalker page 93 wrote:'Sire, I believe we should save them for–’ The human said nothing more. The front of his face came free with a sickly crack, the flesh and jagged bone crunching in the Night Lord’s fist. Talos ignored the body as it toppled, spilling the insides of its halved skull onto the decking. No one had even seen him move, such was the prophet’s speed, clearing ten metres and vaulting a console table in the time it took a human heart to beat once.

Space Marines do not give a feth about battle cannons.

 Bobthehero wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7Oc-pstqpc

Replace Reapers with Death of Antagonis

Also, no claim of marines surviving Battlecannon rounds, none are being sent their way, still, refer to the video above for my opinion on this.

“But the rest of his retort was swallowed in a thunderous explosion as the tank outside fired its battle cannon into the derelict building. The blast pulverised a ten-metre-wide section of the building’s front entrance, showering the Astartes in a hail of jagged stone and metal.”
Pg.202 FA

Battlecannon in question decimated a ten-meter wide concrete wall reinforced with rebar.

“Nemiel watched the Astartes race up to the street corner and put their backs to a burnt-out storefront, their bolters held across their chests. One of the two warriors – Brother Cortus, Nemiel thought – slid to the end of the wall and peered around the corner.
Nemiel heard the battle cannon fire and watched the corner of the building Coitus was standing at disintegrate in the space of a single heartbeat. The two Astartes disappeared in a blizzard of pulverised stone and fragments of structural steel. A billowing cloud of dust and smoke enveloped the intersection and rolled down the street towards the rest of the squad.
The squad took cover on reflex, crouching behind rubble piles or pressing close to a building wall. Nemiel checked his helmet display and saw the status icon for Brother Cortus flash from green to amber. He was wounded, perhaps seriously, but still functional. The walls of the building must have shielded the Astartes from the worst of the blast.
Less than a minute later Brother Yung emerged from the smoke cloud, his black armour caked with brown dust. He was half-carrying, half-dragging Brother Cortus. Nemiel rose from cover and jogged forward as Yung set the wounded warrior down next to the shattered stoop of a hab unit. Cortus reached up and fumbled with his helmet. One side of the ceramite helm had been partially crushed, shattering the right ocular and splitting it from crown to nape. Yung lent a hand and helped the wounded Astartes pull the helmet free.
‘Status?’ Nemiel asked.
Brother Cortus sent the smashed helmet bouncing across the street. The skin on the right side of his face had been deeply scored by the impact, peeling away the flesh down to the bone in some places. His right eye was a bloody ruin, but the wound was clotting quickly thanks to Cortus’s enhanced healing ability.
‘One battle tank and four APCs, three hundred metres south,’ he said, his voice rough with pain. ‘Approximately a platoon of infantry in hasty defensive positions, maybe more.’
‘I was talking about your head, brother.’
Cortus glanced dazedly at the Redemptor, blinking his one good eye. ‘Oh, that,’ he said dismissively. ‘It’s nothing. Did anyone see what happened to my bolter?’”
Pg.188 FA

Astartes survive blast and a little beaten up, but otherwise are still combat-capable.

I'll stick with the Mass Effect video then.

And the 10 Kasrkins killing two plagues marines with little loses.

 Bobthehero wrote:
I'll stick with the Mass Effect video then.

And the 10 Kasrkins killing two plagues marines with little loses.

Who is the fingers-in-ears fanboy now?

Mhmm?

Never called you that, I think, maybe I did and I've said many times in the past that I ignore dumb Marine (and other things, for that matter) fluff.

Never hid that fact

Besides I don't claim Guardsmen can wipe out Marines in droves, merely that they don't fold like wet paper in front of Marines. And that they get slagged by heavy ordnance.

 Bobthehero wrote:


Besides I don't claim Guardsmen can wipe out Marines in droves, merely that they don't fold like wet paper in front of Marines. And that they get slagged by heavy ordnance.

Claiming this is heresy!

Report to the Commissar immediately.

I agree with Bobthehero. I believe Space Marines can die to Plasma, Melta and anything stronger than that pretty easy. It's just that they're smart enough to take cover from this weapons and to eliminate them quickly.

Though I will admit that my position may be contrary to the vast majority of published lore.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

PastelAvenger wrote:
Think of all his dead comrades as well, he could just pick up a full discarded clip.

For some reason, you reminded me of the russians when they fought at Stalingrad. Half of their soldiers were given a clip and instructed to follow somebody who already had a rifle and wait for their eventual death because they didn't have enough weapons and ammo.

But luckily, SM's are much more fortunate. They got plenty of ammo and weapons, if only GAMES-WORKSHOP WOULD DISLPAY IT PROPERLY! Lol

You know that is a Hollywood myth right? The Soviets were anything but short of rifles and equipment, if they were short of anything it was manpower, because all they had was untrained conscripts and inexperienced officers. That was the biggest flaw of the Red Army in WW2. Not their rifles, they had huge stockpiles of rifles. And tanks. Lots of tanks.

Yeah, it was with ammunition that they had shortages. If that scene from CoD 1 was more accurate you would have received a Mosin Nagant with that single stripper clip.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

PastelAvenger wrote:
Think of all his dead comrades as well, he could just pick up a full discarded clip.

For some reason, you reminded me of the russians when they fought at Stalingrad. Half of their soldiers were given a clip and instructed to follow somebody who already had a rifle and wait for their eventual death because they didn't have enough weapons and ammo.

But luckily, SM's are much more fortunate. They got plenty of ammo and weapons, if only GAMES-WORKSHOP WOULD DISLPAY IT PROPERLY! Lol

You know that is a Hollywood myth right? The Soviets were anything but short of rifles and equipment, if they were short of anything it was manpower, because all they had was untrained conscripts and inexperienced officers. That was the biggest flaw of the Red Army in WW2. Not their rifles, they had huge stockpiles of rifles. And tanks. Lots of tanks.

Oh. Playing too much CoD then. Need to read up more on history lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:


Besides I don't claim Guardsmen can wipe out Marines in droves, merely that they don't fold like wet paper in front of Marines. And that they get slagged by heavy ordnance.

Claiming this is heresy!

Report to the Commissar immediately.

Careful he isn't a Catachan. Then it will be the commissar being shot

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

PastelAvenger wrote:
Think of all his dead comrades as well, he could just pick up a full discarded clip.

For some reason, you reminded me of the russians when they fought at Stalingrad. Half of their soldiers were given a clip and instructed to follow somebody who already had a rifle and wait for their eventual death because they didn't have enough weapons and ammo.

But luckily, SM's are much more fortunate. They got plenty of ammo and weapons, if only GAMES-WORKSHOP WOULD DISLPAY IT PROPERLY! Lol

You know that is a Hollywood myth right? The Soviets were anything but short of rifles and equipment, if they were short of anything it was manpower, because all they had was untrained conscripts and inexperienced officers. That was the biggest flaw of the Red Army in WW2. Not their rifles, they had huge stockpiles of rifles. And tanks. Lots of tanks.

Oh. Playing too much CoD then. Need to read up more on history

I prefer to think of it as Soviet Russian propaganda. That they were badly undersupplied due to the dirty Americans and British refusing to supply them. And still won. That every man was willing to do his part for Russia, even willing to die simply to hold ground, and those willing to go unarmed, so that Comrades in other regions might have some more weapons, and instead take theirs off the valiant Comrades killed by the filthy Nazis.

Fething Commies.

 Deadshot wrote:
I prefer to think of it as Soviet Russian propaganda. That they were badly undersupplied due to the dirty Americans and British refusing to supply them. And still won.

Well, it's the same sort of propaganda as the western allies totally ignoring the huge Soviet contribution after the Cold War started. The US single-handedly winning the war. Hollywood war movies making the characters Americans if it's a good story but the original heroes were, say, British or god forbid French!

Spetulhu wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
I prefer to think of it as Soviet Russian propaganda. That they were badly undersupplied due to the dirty Americans and British refusing to supply them. And still won.

Well, it's the same sort of propaganda as the western allies totally ignoring the huge Soviet contribution after the Cold War started. The US single-handedly winning the war. Hollywood war movies making the characters Americans if it's a good story but the original heroes were, say, British or god forbid French!

I know.

Fething Commies.
Fething 'Merica.
Godforsaken fething French.

Alright everybody, stay on topic. Stop dissing America.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7Oc-pstqpc

Replace Reapers with Death of Antagonis

Also, no claim of marines surviving Battlecannon rounds, none are being sent their way, still, refer to the video above for my opinion on this.

“But the rest of his retort was swallowed in a thunderous explosion as the tank outside fired its battle cannon into the derelict building. The blast pulverised a ten-metre-wide section of the building’s front entrance, showering the Astartes in a hail of jagged stone and metal.”
Pg.202 FA

Battlecannon in question decimated a ten-meter wide concrete wall reinforced with rebar.

“Nemiel watched the Astartes race up to the street corner and put their backs to a burnt-out storefront, their bolters held across their chests. One of the two warriors – Brother Cortus, Nemiel thought – slid to the end of the wall and pastartes. ound the corner.
Nemiel heard the battle cannon fire and watched the corner of the building Coitus was standing at disintegrate in the space of a single heartbeat. The two Astartes disappeared in a blizzard of pulverised stone and fragments of structural steel. A billowing cloud of dust and smoke enveloped the intersection and rolled down the street towards the rest of the squad.
The squad took cover on reflex, crouching behind rubble piles or pressing close to a building wall. Nemiel checked his helmet display and saw the status icon for Brother Cortus flash from green to amber. He was wounded, perhaps seriously, but still functional. The walls of the building must have shielded the Astartes from the worst of the blast.
Less than a minute later Brother Yung emerged from the smoke cloud, his black armour caked with brown dust. He was half-carrying, half-dragging Brother Cortus. Nemiel rose from cover and jogged forward as Yung set the wounded warrior down next to the shattered stoop of a hab unit. Cortus reached up and fumbled with his helmet. One side of the ceramite helm had been partially crushed, shattering the right ocular and splitting it from crown to nape. Yung lent a hand and helped the wounded Astartes pull the helmet free.
‘Status?’ Nemiel asked.
Brother Cortus sent the smashed helmet bouncing across the street. The skin on the right side of his face had been deeply scored by the impact, peeling away the flesh down to the bone in some places. His right eye was a bloody ruin, but the wound was clotting quickly thanks to Cortus’s enhanced healing ability.
‘One battle tank and four APCs, three hundred metres south,’ he said, his voice rough with pain. ‘Approximately a platoon of infantry in hasty defensive positions, maybe more.’
‘I was talking about your head, brother.’
Cortus glanced dazedly at the Redemptor, blinking his one good eye. ‘Oh, that,’ he said dismissively. ‘It’s nothing. Did anyone see what happened to my bolter?’”
Pg.188 FA

Astartes survive blast and a little beaten up, but otherwise are still combat-capable.

Love how he asks for his bolter instead of answering Nemiel about his head. Typical astartes

Lord Tarkin wrote:Are you kidding me? A spare mag? Im not diving into a tyranid swarm or an ork horde with that.

Neither would space marines. Because space marines don't dive into hopeless odds vastly outnumbered without support like that.

Space marines aren't idiots. The only time they ever wind up in grinding battles of attrition against hodes is when they have impeccable defensive positions that work against their enemies and they have plenty of support from the fleet. Or, of course, they have no choice and it's a last stand, but that's obviously not that common of a situation for a huge pile of good reasons.

Wyzilla wrote:Plus on top of that, if Space Marines are invading, they have orbital superiority. A resupply is just a drop pod away from bringing your squad back up to a fully stocked kit.

Exactly. If you can move troops and materiel instantly, why would you make everyone carry around a giant pile of supplies? Space marines carrying around ten mags is like space marines carrying around a month of rations. It just doesn't make sense, given their logistics.

TheCustomLime wrote:If the enemy gains air and/or space superiority that diminishes available support.

Diminishes, but unless they can easily shoot down drop pods, not eliminate.

Plus, if things are really going so bad, then they're not going to keep the space marines deployed in such a vulnerable position. They may not know fear, but they know how to retreat from terrible positions. No way they're going to leave them where they can't be supported, and no way a few extra mags is going to stop them from being completely screwed if they get completely cut off.

 Ailaros wrote:

Lord Tarkin wrote:Are you kidding me? A spare mag? Im not diving into a tyranid swarm or an ork horde with that.

Neither would space marines. Because space marines don't dive into hopeless odds vastly outnumbered without support like that.

Unless they're Deathwatch Marines in a Goto book... >>

 Ailaros wrote:

Lord Tarkin wrote:Are you kidding me? A spare mag? Im not diving into a tyranid swarm or an ork horde with that.

Neither would space marines. Because space marines don't dive into hopeless odds vastly outnumbered without support like that.

Space marines aren't idiots. The only time they ever wind up in grinding battles of attrition against hodes is when they have impeccable defensive positions that work against their enemies and they have plenty of support from the fleet. Or, of course, they have no choice and it's a last stand, but that's obviously not that common of a situation for a huge pile of good reasons.

Wyzilla wrote:Plus on top of that, if Space Marines are invading, they have orbital superiority. A resupply is just a drop pod away from bringing your squad back up to a fully stocked kit.

Exactly. If you can move troops and materiel instantly, why would you make everyone carry around a giant pile of supplies? Space marines carrying around ten mags is like space marines carrying around a month of rations. It just doesn't make sense, given their logistics.

TheCustomLime wrote:If the enemy gains air and/or space superiority that diminishes available support.

Diminishes, but unless they can easily shoot down drop pods, not eliminate.

Plus, if things are really going so bad, then they're not going to keep the space marines deployed in such a vulnerable position. They may not know fear, but they know how to retreat from terrible positions. No way they're going to leave them where they can't be supported, and no way a few extra mags is going to stop them from being completely screwed if they get completely cut off.

Not sure if you noticed or not but SM's are very few in the galaxy and they often find themselves fighting larger-then-normal hordes at several instances. Battle for Rynns World, Kantor and his survivors had to pack as much ammo as they could carry because you know, 16 men against giant hordes of orks is kinda hopeless if you only take a spare mag. It's exact reasons like this that SM's pack a lot of ammo, it's called ready for the unkown.

I have no clue why they would drop some pods full of ammo everytime they ran dry. What if at any given time that can't happen? It's very uneccessary to have to keep supplying SM's with more ammo when they are fullyy capable of carrying at least 10 mags. Your argument is so invalid, seriously, there is no excuse a SM can't carry a decent amount of ammo.

I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere in a BL novel about a marine storing mags in his armour... as in a compartment opening on his leg or something? I'd have to check again, and of course it might be the author fething up, but it sounded like a clever explanation, if a little weird.

Rakoun wrote:
I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere in a BL novel about a marine storing mags in his armour... as in a compartment opening on his leg or something? I'd have to check again, and of course it might be the author fething up, but it sounded like a clever explanation, if a little weird.

Going by probably what's the best game model of a marine keeping to the style of the miniatures, I could easily see them having a robo-cop style compartment in the leg for ammunition.

What a pain in the arse it will be to get a mag out. That looks more difficult than it needs to be bit alrighty then

From what i remembers all of there gear is magnetized so that it just attaches to any point on there armor or belt. though the thought of a Space marine literally pulling a mag out of his arse is funny

 Desubot wrote:
From what i remembers all of there gear is magnetized so that it just attaches to any point on there armor or belt. though the thought of a Space marine literally pulling a mag out of his arse is funny

Hahaha, great now that's how I'll always imagine a SM reloading

Using the visible seam in the greave as a reference point, I can see there being a thought-controlled (via Black Carapace interface) panel that pops open , containing two to four magazines (perhaps stacked two-by-two) inside the greave for ease of storage and reloading.

Then you carry another half-dozen or more clips in pouches on your belt, keep a clip magnetized to the inside of each fore-arm, and maybe four more magnetized to the back of your armor, above your waist.

So with 4 in each leg, 6 on your belt, 1 on each arm and 4 at your back, plus 1 in the spout, that's 21 magazines.

What marines should have is a small, back up energy weapon. Bolters are fine weapons but the idea a highly mobile strike force can always be resupplied from orbit is just silly. Loss of orbital superiority, reasonable AA or simply not being under an open sky can easily make resupply difficult. You think the orbital defense control centers *aren't* buried under a mile of concrete? That the power generation station isn't under considerable armour? If you can't put firepower in there you defiitely can't put a drop pod.

Sure, orbital resupply will have its uses but marines are the tip of the spear, the first on scene. The potential for unkown enemy assets to cut them off is ever present and with that in mind they should be equippped as such. As much ammunition as does not impair their combat ability. Further to this though I submit that the core components of a lasgun- sans firing and power source- could easily be incorporated into a marines armour. Mounted on say the wrist or side of the helmet. fired by thought. This would, from his armours atomic stack power supply, give him virtually unlimited ammunition. It would also provide another weapon that could be used up close and a viable alternative to killing lesser swarm type enemies when bolts are starting to look scarce. There's also no reason these couldn't be hot shot quality weapons- we are talkng about marines here.

Point being if you're going into combat with a nigh unlimited energy source it only makes sense to carry an energy weapon as a last resort.

 Kojiro wrote:
What marines should have is a small, back up energy weapon. Bolters are fine weapons but the idea a highly mobile strike force can always be resupplied from orbit is just silly. Loss of orbital superiority, reasonable AA or simply not being under an open sky can easily make resupply difficult. You think the orbital defense control centers *aren't* buried under a mile of concrete? That the power generation station isn't under considerable armour? If you can't put firepower in there you defiitely can't put a drop pod.

Sure, orbital resupply will have its uses but marines are the tip of the spear, the first on scene. The potential for unkown enemy assets to cut them off is ever present and with that in mind they should be equippped as such. As much ammunition as does not impair their combat ability. Further to this though I submit that the core components of a lasgun- sans firing and power source- could easily be incorporated into a marines armour. Mounted on say the wrist or side of the helmet. fired by thought. This would, from his armours atomic stack power supply, give him virtually unlimited ammunition. It would also provide another weapon that could be used up close and a viable alternative to killing lesser swarm type enemies when bolts are starting to look scarce. There's also no reason these couldn't be hot shot quality weapons- we are talkng about marines here.

Point being if you're going into combat with a nigh unlimited energy source it only makes sense to carry an energy weapon as a last resort.

I agree the orbital resupply is too unreliable. Backup energy weapons is an interesting suggestion. Definitely some sort of light las weapon could do tge trick

 Kojiro wrote:
What marines should have is a small, back up energy weapon. Bolters are fine weapons but the idea a highly mobile strike force can always be resupplied from orbit is just silly. Loss of orbital superiority, reasonable AA or simply not being under an open sky can easily make resupply difficult. You think the orbital defense control centers *aren't* buried under a mile of concrete? That the power generation station isn't under considerable armour? If you can't put firepower in there you defiitely can't put a drop pod.

Sure, orbital resupply will have its uses but marines are the tip of the spear, the first on scene. The potential for unkown enemy assets to cut them off is ever present and with that in mind they should be equippped as such. As much ammunition as does not impair their combat ability. Further to this though I submit that the core components of a lasgun- sans firing and power source- could easily be incorporated into a marines armour. Mounted on say the wrist or side of the helmet. fired by thought. This would, from his armours atomic stack power supply, give him virtually unlimited ammunition. It would also provide another weapon that could be used up close and a viable alternative to killing lesser swarm type enemies when bolts are starting to look scarce. There's also no reason these couldn't be hot shot quality weapons- we are talkng about marines here.

Point being if you're going into combat with a nigh unlimited energy source it only makes sense to carry an energy weapon as a last resort.

A backup energy weapon? Marines have been known to run out of power, for example in the 5th Edition Demons codex there's a short story about a Marine who is running from the named Hound of Khorne (I forget the name of the lil' guy) and runs out of power, so having a backup energy weapon which drains your available energy which you require to operate your life-sustaining armour is not a good idea, especially a Hot-shot, which uses up massive energy reserves.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 Kojiro wrote:
What marines should have is a small, back up energy weapon. Bolters are fine weapons but the idea a highly mobile strike force can always be resupplied from orbit is just silly. Loss of orbital superiority, reasonable AA or simply not being under an open sky can easily make resupply difficult. You think the orbital defense control centers *aren't* buried under a mile of concrete? That the power generation station isn't under considerable armour? If you can't put firepower in there you defiitely can't put a drop pod.

Sure, orbital resupply will have its uses but marines are the tip of the spear, the first on scene. The potential for unkown enemy assets to cut them off is ever present and with that in mind they should be equippped as such. As much ammunition as does not impair their combat ability. Further to this though I submit that the core components of a lasgun- sans firing and power source- could easily be incorporated into a marines armour. Mounted on say the wrist or side of the helmet. fired by thought. This would, from his armours atomic stack power supply, give him virtually unlimited ammunition. It would also provide another weapon that could be used up close and a viable alternative to killing lesser swarm type enemies when bolts are starting to look scarce. There's also no reason these couldn't be hot shot quality weapons- we are talkng about marines here.

Point being if you're going into combat with a nigh unlimited energy source it only makes sense to carry an energy weapon as a last resort.

A backup energy weapon? Marines have been known to run out of power, for example in the 5th Edition Demons codex there's a short story about a Marine who is running from the named Hound of Khorne (I forget the name of the lil' guy) and runs out of power, so having a backup energy weapon which drains your available energy which you require to operate your life-sustaining armour is not a good idea, especially a Hot-shot, which uses up massive energy reserves.

That's probably an outlier given that Space Marines are powered by nuclear fusion.

 Kojiro wrote:
Further to this though I submit that the core components of a lasgun- sans firing and power source- could easily be incorporated into a marines armour. Mounted on say the wrist or side of the helmet. fired by thought. This would, from his armours atomic stack power supply, give him virtually unlimited ammunition. It would also provide another weapon that could be used up close and a viable alternative to killing lesser swarm type enemies when bolts are starting to look scarce. There's also no reason these couldn't be hot shot quality weapons- we are talkng about marines here.

Point being if you're going into combat with a nigh unlimited energy source it only makes sense to carry an energy weapon as a last resort.

It's like you did a copy and paste from my brain. It also used to be normal in Rogue Trader artwork for marines to have plasma-style devices on their wrists. However, I think that there are already several thousand examples of space-robot-inspectors-gadget in existence, and it would be fairly unpleasant to see built in las as standard equipment.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 Kojiro wrote:
What marines should have is a small, back up energy weapon. Bolters are fine weapons but the idea a highly mobile strike force can always be resupplied from orbit is just silly. Loss of orbital superiority, reasonable AA or simply not being under an open sky can easily make resupply difficult. You think the orbital defense control centers *aren't* buried under a mile of concrete? That the power generation station isn't under considerable armour? If you can't put firepower in there you defiitely can't put a drop pod.

Sure, orbital resupply will have its uses but marines are the tip of the spear, the first on scene. The potential for unkown enemy assets to cut them off is ever present and with that in mind they should be equippped as such. As much ammunition as does not impair their combat ability. Further to this though I submit that the core components of a lasgun- sans firing and power source- could easily be incorporated into a marines armour. Mounted on say the wrist or side of the helmet. fired by thought. This would, from his armours atomic stack power supply, give him virtually unlimited ammunition. It would also provide another weapon that could be used up close and a viable alternative to killing lesser swarm type enemies when bolts are starting to look scarce. There's also no reason these couldn't be hot shot quality weapons- we are talkng about marines here.

Point being if you're going into combat with a nigh unlimited energy source it only makes sense to carry an energy weapon as a last resort.

A backup energy weapon? Marines have been known to run out of power, for example in the 5th Edition Demons codex there's a short story about a Marine who is running from the named Hound of Khorne (I forget the name of the lil' guy) and runs out of power, so having a backup energy weapon which drains your available energy which you require to operate your life-sustaining armour is not a good idea, especially a Hot-shot, which uses up massive energy reserves.

That's probably an outlier given that Space Marines are powered by nuclear fusion.

How much fusion material do they have, though? And, have you seen the power packs Stormtroopers have to carry to fire more than a few bursts of a Hot-shot?

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 Kojiro wrote:
What marines should have is a small, back up energy weapon. Bolters are fine weapons but the idea a highly mobile strike force can always be resupplied from orbit is just silly. Loss of orbital superiority, reasonable AA or simply not being under an open sky can easily make resupply difficult. You think the orbital defense control centers *aren't* buried under a mile of concrete? That the power generation station isn't under considerable armour? If you can't put firepower in there you defiitely can't put a drop pod.

Sure, orbital resupply will have its uses but marines are the tip of the spear, the first on scene. The potential for unkown enemy assets to cut them off is ever present and with that in mind they should be equippped as such. As much ammunition as does not impair their combat ability. Further to this though I submit that the core components of a lasgun- sans firing and power source- could easily be incorporated into a marines armour. Mounted on say the wrist or side of the helmet. fired by thought. This would, from his armours atomic stack power supply, give him virtually unlimited ammunition. It would also provide another weapon that could be used up close and a viable alternative to killing lesser swarm type enemies when bolts are starting to look scarce. There's also no reason these couldn't be hot shot quality weapons- we are talkng about marines here.

Point being if you're going into combat with a nigh unlimited energy source it only makes sense to carry an energy weapon as a last resort.

A backup energy weapon? Marines have been known to run out of power, for example in the 5th Edition Demons codex there's a short story about a Marine who is running from the named Hound of Khorne (I forget the name of the lil' guy) and runs out of power, so having a backup energy weapon which drains your available energy which you require to operate your life-sustaining armour is not a good idea, especially a Hot-shot, which uses up massive energy reserves.

That's probably an outlier given that Space Marines are powered by nuclear fusion.

How much fusion material do they have, though? And, have you seen the power packs Stormtroopers have to carry to fire more than a few bursts of a Hot-shot?

I don't think you understand just how much energy fusion power generates. A stable miniature star would roughly generate around enough energy to power the continental united states IIRC, and the only fuel you'd need is hydrogen, which is literally everywhere. The only thing more numerous than hydrogen is theoretical dark matter. A fusion reactor is as close as you can get to free, unlimited energy. All you'd have to do is provide occasional maintenance.