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 Deadshot wrote:
One of the Space Marine implants is a Pre-Stomach, that breaks down inedible materials to make them consumable. A second organ in the back of the throat alerts them to genuinely inedible or deadly material. Between those, acidic saliva and the Oolitic Kidney to break down almost all poisons, they can practically eat anything. I'm sure their body could find a use for the minerals present in concrete too.

The Neuroglottis and the Preomnor do not allow Space Marines to obtain proteins, fats and other sources of energy humans need from concrete (Or any other inedible object). They may find minerals but not nearly enough to sustain them. Or anyone for that matter.

What these organs can do is allow them to eat poisonous animals or plants with less worry. I still would imagine that the Chapter Master/Captains would rather prefer that Marines eat prepackaged rations than stuff they found lying around. You do not want troops as invaluable as Space Marines to be incapacitated because they found a toxin that their organs can't filter.

Well, there's a few things I think need to be considered:

1) Space Marines are highly trained, and have the benefit of advanced targetting systems/weaponry. They're probably more likely to hit what they shoot at. Therefore, they need less ammo than your average rifleman, as less will miss.

2) Space Marines are far more likely to shoot to kill than the average infantryman today, they're indoctrinated to kill from the start, and in most cases they aren't facing an enemy they can reasonably find compassion for. Boltguns are also incredibly powerful weapons. Anything that does get hit is very likely to be killed/disabled. Therefore, they need less ammo than your average rifleman, as they will have a more efficient kill/shot ratio.

3) Space Marines face enemies that suppression fire isn't useful/viable against. Thinks like Orks, Tyranids or Khorne Beserkers don't fear death/are too busy fantasising about chopping the Marine into little pieces. Whereas an infantryman would use a huge amount of ammunition in suppressing the enemy, Space Marines are often shooting to kill rather than suppress.

4) Space Marines are far more likely to engage in close combat with the enemy than your average human. Things like bayonet charges have been out of fashion on Earth for a good long while, in the 40K universe there's tons of wargear specially designed to kill enemies up close. Moreover, potential battlefield threats are more likely to engage close up. So Marines need less ammo as part of their task involves punching things rather than shooting them.

5) Marines have far more heavy support available to them. Devastators carry a heavy weapon each, and these weapons are often more powerful than contemporary ones. They can lay down a lot more firepower, and thereby take some of the burden off the average Marine. If we equate a heavy bolter to a modern HMG, that would give a full TOE Marine company a potential 14 HMGs. That's not counting Dreadnoughts, which also bring substantial organic firepower to a Marine Company. Compare that to a modern rifle company, and there's more organic fire support. Thus, less ammo is needed.

I'd think it varies depending on the intensity/length of the action. A Marine force going for a long patrol might carry far more rounds than a modern infantryman, as might a force preparing for a massive assault by the enemy. As Marines are a lot stronger than normal humans, I doubt they'd really carry less ammo. Though I guess a force needing to move quickly, say a recon mission or relief force, might well strip down to a bare minimum. Even if each Marine packs only one spare mag, that's 60 rounds each. If only half of those hit, and only half of those take out the target, they've still killed 15 each, and have Bolt Pistols/Knives remaining.

I think that Anvil got it about righ5 with their black ops 3rd party troopers

http://www.anvilindustry.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=77_107

I'm not saying they can. I'm.saying they could pass concrete through their systems with likely little damage, and possible extract minerals like iron or calcium for example (if present). Not magically absorb protein or vitamin D.

 Musashi363 wrote:

You served in the U.S. army?

Speaking from experience I would feth the blade off altogether and take more ammunition.

I always used to see cowboy mercenaries and chicken-gak outfit soldiers and sailors swanning around in Iraq and Afghanistan with gakky knives hanging off all of their kit and shake me head in amusement.

I saw one guy with a stabbing blade on the back of his belt, a knife on his leg, and one hanging off the front of this tactical vest. Its pure vanity and simply looks good on the movies.

Take more ammo for the bolter, its all gone to gak if you need to go down to pistols, let alone whipping out a knife. If you have expended all of that ammo, you can probably pick up an slain foes Choppa or something instead if you really need to.

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 mattyrm wrote:
Speaking from experience I would feth the blade off altogether and take more ammunition.

I always used to see cowboy mercenaries and chicken-gak outfit soldiers and sailors swanning around in Iraq and Afghanistan with gakky knives hanging off all of their kit and shake me head in amusement.

I saw one guy with a stabbing blade on the back of his belt, a knife on his leg, and one hanging off the front of this tactical vest. Its pure vanity and simply looks good on the movies.

Take more ammo for the bolter, its all gone to gak if you need to go down to pistols, let alone whipping out a knife. If you have expended all of that ammo, you can probably pick up an slain foes Choppa or something instead if you really need to.

Yeah, more ammo for the bolter, 20 mags. Done

 mattyrm wrote:
Speaking from experience I would feth the blade off altogether and take more ammunition.

I always used to see cowboy mercenaries and chicken-gak outfit soldiers and sailors swanning around in Iraq and Afghanistan with gakky knives hanging off all of their kit and shake me head in amusement.

I saw one guy with a stabbing blade on the back of his belt, a knife on his leg, and one hanging off the front of this tactical vest. Its pure vanity and simply looks good on the movies.

Take more ammo for the bolter, its all gone to gak if you need to go down to pistols, let alone whipping out a knife. If you have expended all of that ammo, you can probably pick up an slain foes Choppa or something instead if you really need to.

Unlike modern day soldiers, who if given the choice, would happily grab an enemy's AK if needed, most Marine chapters are like "Umm, no, Xenos weapon, bad!" And would rather fight with bare fists than pick up such an object. Of course, several chapters such as the pragmatic Raptors would have no issue with the likes of a Choppa or Fire Dragon meltagun if they needed a weapon. The likes of Chaos weapons is a no go generally, however if really really desperate, and the Chaplains weren't around, they might resort to "restoring the bolter's purity." Or "sanctifying the ammunition against its true foes."

Plus, Astartes are very good in CQC versus ordinary foes. They are hard to kill and hit with a lot of force so it would make sensse for them to be equipped with combat knives. If I was a Space Marine I would rather have a Chainsword but Codex Astartes and all.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Plus, Astartes are very good in CQC versus ordinary foes. They are hard to kill and hit with a lot of force so it would make sensse for them to be equipped with combat knives. If I was a Space Marine I would rather have a Chainsword but Codex Astartes and all.

Not to mention IIRC said combat knives are monomolecular and unlike real blades of similar sharpness, retain their sharpness with technobabble alloys.

 mattyrm wrote:
Speaking from experience I would feth the blade off altogether and take more ammunition.

I always used to see cowboy mercenaries and chicken-gak outfit soldiers and sailors swanning around in Iraq and Afghanistan with gakky knives hanging off all of their kit and shake me head in amusement.

I saw one guy with a stabbing blade on the back of his belt, a knife on his leg, and one hanging off the front of this tactical vest. Its pure vanity and simply looks good on the movies.

Take more ammo for the bolter, its all gone to gak if you need to go down to pistols, let alone whipping out a knife. If you have expended all of that ammo, you can probably pick up an slain foes Choppa or something instead if you really need to.

Now I feel bad because I end up with 3 knifes on my kit :(

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Stranded on an Ork planet?

There is literally no excuse for going hungry as a Space Marine under those circumstances! Orks are edible!

would you like mushroom people with that?

A Thunderwolf.

 Pyeatt wrote:
A Thunderwolf.

coincidence, I think not!

Well, it's a matter of how long you think it's going to take until they're resupplied. I mean, if you're standing right next to an ammo dump, you're not going to throw a hundred pounds of ammunition onto your body.

Marines are only going to carry around what they're actually going to need right now (plus perhaps a tiny bit more). Given all the references to how good marine logistics are, I dont' think the way things are modeled would actually be that off.

I mean, if I'm going to be part of a "platoon" of marines, up against a few hundred cultists, then I'm really not going to need very much other than a spare mag and a frag grenade or two. Anything more would be lugging around crap that I'm not actually going to use until next time I get resupplied.

Space marines aren't guardsmen. They don't go in for huge battles of endless grinding attrition far away from supply lines. A vast majority of the time they're either used more like raiders or special ops, or have proper supplies on hand.

I wouldn't expect a SWAT team member to be festooned with a dozen ammo clips and a box and a half of grenades, nor would I expect that of space marines.

 Ailaros wrote:
Well, it's a matter of how long you think it's going to take until they're resupplied. I mean, if you're standing right next to an ammo dump, you're not going to throw a hundred pounds of ammunition onto your body.

Marines are only going to carry around what they're actually going to need right now (plus perhaps a tiny bit more). Given all the references to how good marine logistics are, I dont' think the way things are modeled would actually be that off.

I mean, if I'm going to be part of a "platoon" of marines, up against a few hundred cultists, then I'm really not going to need very much other than a spare mag and a frag grenade or two. Anything more would be lugging around crap that I'm not actually going to use until next time I get resupplied.

Space marines aren't guardsmen. They don't go in for huge battles of endless grinding attrition far away from supply lines. A vast majority of the time they're either used more like raiders or special ops, or have proper supplies on hand.

I wouldn't expect a SWAT team member to be festooned with a dozen ammo clips and a box and a half of grenades, nor would I expect that of space marines.

Plus on top of that, if Space Marines are invading, they have orbital superiority. A resupply is just a drop pod away from bringing your squad back up to a fully stocked kit.

If the enemy gains air and/or space superiority that diminishes available support. I would think that Space Marines would carry at least 5 and probably 10 spare mags in case they need to fight on their own for extended periods of time. Then there are enemies like Orks, Imperial Guard, DEldar, Necrons, Chaos Marines, GK, Sisters of Battle and other Astartes that require a bit of ammunition to engage. Yeah, one spare mag isn't going to cut it under most circumstances even if they have available support.

Also, to the guys in Iraq. Did my two tours as well.. good times, bad times, but times indeed, man.

 Ailaros wrote:
Well, it's a matter of how long you think it's going to take until they're resupplied. I mean, if you're standing right next to an ammo dump, you're not going to throw a hundred pounds of ammunition onto your body.

Marines are only going to carry around what they're actually going to need right now (plus perhaps a tiny bit more). Given all the references to how good marine logistics are, I dont' think the way things are modeled would actually be that off.

I mean, if I'm going to be part of a "platoon" of marines, up against a few hundred cultists, then I'm really not going to need very much other than a spare mag and a frag grenade or two. Anything more would be lugging around crap that I'm not actually going to use until next time I get resupplied.

Space marines aren't guardsmen. They don't go in for huge battles of endless grinding attrition far away from supply lines. A vast majority of the time they're either used more like raiders or special ops, or have proper supplies on hand.

I wouldn't expect a SWAT team member to be festooned with a dozen ammo clips and a box and a half of grenades, nor would I expect that of space marines.

Are you kidding me? A spare mag? Im not diving into a tyranid swarm or an ork horde with that. Even Chaos Marines too. I wouldn't be suprised if a captain ordered his company to take 12 boltgun mags, 4 frag frenades and a combat blade if they were fighting orks or nids. Dakka dude, DAKKA!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Pyeatt wrote:
Also, to the guys in Iraq. Did my two tours as well.. good times, bad times, but times indeed, man.

Thank you for your service. I don't know the things you've seen but I am grateful you gave your sweat blood and tears to defend what's left of our country.

My grandfather told me a story once. Back during Vietnam, he was working in a factory and he knew these two young guys working there. They must've been 18 or 19. They both got drafted into the army and my grandfather was spared being drafted because of some medical issues but a couple months later, he found out that one of the boys died and the other lost both his legs to a booby trap. Ever since he told me that I couldn't help but be grateful for the sacrifice my soldiers give every day. Salute brother.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
If the enemy gains air and/or space superiority that diminishes available support. I would think that Space Marines would carry at least 5 and probably 10 spare mags in case they need to fight on their own for extended periods of time. Then there are enemies like Orks, Imperial Guard, DEldar, Necrons, Chaos Marines, GK, Sisters of Battle and other Astartes that require a bit of ammunition to engage. Yeah, one spare mag isn't going to cut it under most circumstances even if they have available support.

Yeah, and the importance of drop pods. They take years to repair and a SM chapter isnt gonna drop one unless they really really need to. So this means...stack up on ammo cuz yo *** aint gettin squat if you run dry. Lol

Wyzilla wrote:Not to mention IIRC said combat knives are monomolecular and unlike real blades of similar sharpness, retain their sharpness with technobabble alloys.

Ceramic, actually. Astartes combat knives are ceramic.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
If the enemy gains air and/or space superiority that diminishes available support. I would think that Space Marines would carry at least 5 and probably 10 spare mags in case they need to fight on their own for extended periods of time. Then there are enemies like Orks, Imperial Guard, DEldar, Necrons, Chaos Marines, GK, Sisters of Battle and other Astartes that require a bit of ammunition to engage. Yeah, one spare mag isn't going to cut it under most circumstances even if they have available support.

Not sure about IG. If they run dry they can always just rip off the treads from their tanks and use them to whip the guardsmen to death. It's not like they haven't done that before.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
If the enemy gains air and/or space superiority that diminishes available support. I would think that Space Marines would carry at least 5 and probably 10 spare mags in case they need to fight on their own for extended periods of time. Then there are enemies like Orks, Imperial Guard, DEldar, Necrons, Chaos Marines, GK, Sisters of Battle and other Astartes that require a bit of ammunition to engage. Yeah, one spare mag isn't going to cut it under most circumstances even if they have available support.

They shouldn't be fighting other marines or Guard units. If they are then either they or the target are heretics. If they are fighting against GK or Sisters they are heretics.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
If the enemy gains air and/or space superiority that diminishes available support. I would think that Space Marines would carry at least 5 and probably 10 spare mags in case they need to fight on their own for extended periods of time. Then there are enemies like Orks, Imperial Guard, DEldar, Necrons, Chaos Marines, GK, Sisters of Battle and other Astartes that require a bit of ammunition to engage. Yeah, one spare mag isn't going to cut it under most circumstances even if they have available support.

Not sure about IG. If they run dry they can always just rip off the treads from their tanks and use them to whip the guardsmen to death. It's not like they haven't done that before.

That's a terrible back up plan. Assuming you can get up towards the tanks, which will be hard without any ranged support, you'll be taking a ton of fire just getting the treads off. Then you'll have to brave through a wall of lasfire, Plasma Gun shots and Melta. You could do it if you were lucky and the Guard regiment in question was poorly equipped but otherwise it's suicidal not to mention stupid.

I'm not sure if you're being serious but that has to be the dumbest combat scene I have ever heard of.

@Deadshot

So? Sometimes Space Marines go to the dark side. That and there will be times where they'll be engaging SoB, GK or and other SM units. The Imperium is stupid like that.

The point was that they shouldn't be fighting GK or SOB, or other loyal Astartes or Guard units, so putting down "If the GK fleet gets superiority" is a waste of breath. If they are planning an anti-GK/SOB/Guard/Astartes campaign, they are traitors. The only factions that matter to mention are the Xenos and Chaos.

Or their orders conflict (ex. SM: I must take this city and save it's citizens! SoB: No, I will purge them! SM: I will save them! Don't dare to try and interfere! SoB: Then you will burn too!) or some other disagreement.

A marine will most certainly want to be stocked with rations, both ready in his PA and some reserves. A huge guy like that will be using a LOT of calories just for his muscles to not melt away even when idle. And as bodybuilders, strongmen and such say it's actually work in itself for them to eat enough high-quality food. A marine who is foraging plants after running out of concentrated protein goop is a marine spending hours on eating every day instead of fighting.

Doombunny wrote:
Things like bayonet charges have been out of fashion on Earth for a good long while

Bayonet charges have been used successfully in Afghanistan.

Apart from weapons, ammunition, medical gear and nutrition, the notable things I would expect to see carried by pretty much any high-tech soldier are:

Rope, tape, chains, zip-ties, straps and other methods of attaching stuff to things, hauling heavy weights into inconvenient places and restraining prisoners. Possibly some climbing gear as well.

Some way to record information and pass it along. To some extent the marine's auto-senses and vox probably handle most of this, but you would expect them to have a pencil and notepad (or an omni-stylus and battle-scroll, if that's more grimdark) and some kind of spray paint as a low-tech backup.

Tools. Marines not only need to maintain their weapons, but also their powered armour. Plus they will often need to interact with damaged or locked electronic and mechanical devices as part of their mission, even if it's just to open up a door. I doubt that you will find any modern soldier without at least a swiss-army knife equivalent somewhere in his gear.

Illumination, signaling and marking equipment. Glow sticks, flares, lanterns, sacred chem candles or whatever. Night vision gear is never perfect and even if it is, it's helpful to be able to mark things out for your air support or allies.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
If the enemy gains air and/or space superiority that diminishes available support. I would think that Space Marines would carry at least 5 and probably 10 spare mags in case they need to fight on their own for extended periods of time. Then there are enemies like Orks, Imperial Guard, DEldar, Necrons, Chaos Marines, GK, Sisters of Battle and other Astartes that require a bit of ammunition to engage. Yeah, one spare mag isn't going to cut it under most circumstances even if they have available support.

Not sure about IG. If they run dry they can always just rip off the treads from their tanks and use them to whip the guardsmen to death. It's not like they haven't done that before.

That's a terrible back up plan. Assuming you can get up towards the tanks, which will be hard without any ranged support, you'll be taking a ton of fire just getting the treads off. Then you'll have to brave through a wall of lasfire, Plasma Gun shots and Melta. You could do it if you were lucky and the Guard regiment in question was poorly equipped but otherwise it's suicidal not to mention stupid.

I'm not sure if you're being serious but that has to be the dumbest combat scene I have ever heard of.

@Deadshot

So? Sometimes Space Marines go to the dark side. That and there will be times where they'll be engaging SoB, GK or and other SM units. The Imperium is stupid like that.

Sounds you are overestimating the effect of Guardsman fire against Space Marine resilience.

Death of Antagonis wrote:There was a flash over his head, and a lascannon shot punched into a Bane Wolf’s gas reservoir. The tank exploded, spreading its angry death for dozens of metres around it. This time, it was the men of the Mortisian Guard whose screams were awful and short, and whose skin was puddling in the road. Bisset’s jaw dropped and he threw himself flat. The Leman Russ’s turret rotated in his direction, and the heavy bolter sponson chugged rounds. The turret hadn’t moved half its arc before a second lascannon beam blasted it from the chassis.

Armoured beings stormed past him. They were terrible, golden angels, and they fell upon the Guard with bolter and chainsword. They savaged the units that had escaped the release of the gas and tore the tanks apart. They were monsters who bore the garb of beauty. They were giants in the service of war turned into art. There were only five of them. There were a hundred times as many Guardsmen, and that was far too few. The battle was even more one-sided than the attack on the rebels had been. Within seconds, hulls had been ripped open, treads yanked from wheels and used as whips, and men scythed into shrieking meat. The Chaos Space Marines stood proudly in the carnage, gods well pleased by their allotment of blood. The surviving rebels emerged from their hiding places. They began to cheer, and the cry was taken up by more and more people pouring into the streets.

Death of Antagonis wrote:With no home world, the Dragons had no infrastructure to produce and properly maintain vehicles. Those they had were for ultimate measures. But what did they need with vehicles when each Space Marine was a main battle tank with legs? Vritras’s spearhead began its destruction of the enemy with fire from the rear. The Devastators of Squad Lanx unleashed their heavy bolters. Rounds with the destructive punch of artillery shells tore the cultists apart.