sing your life wrote:

Doombunny wrote:
Things like bayonet charges have been out of fashion on Earth for a good long while

Bayonet charges have been used successfully in Afghanistan.

Void Stalker page 93 wrote:'Sire, I believe we should save them for–’ The human said nothing more. The front of his face came free with a sickly crack, the flesh and jagged bone crunching in the Night Lord’s fist. Talos ignored the body as it toppled, spilling the insides of its halved skull onto the decking. No one had even seen him move, such was the prophet’s speed, clearing ten metres and vaulting a console table in the time it took a human heart to beat once.

 Bobthehero wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7Oc-pstqpc

Replace Reapers with Death of Antagonis

Also, no claim of marines surviving Battlecannon rounds, none are being sent their way, still, refer to the video above for my opinion on this.

“But the rest of his retort was swallowed in a thunderous explosion as the tank outside fired its battle cannon into the derelict building. The blast pulverised a ten-metre-wide section of the building’s front entrance, showering the Astartes in a hail of jagged stone and metal.”
Pg.202 FA

“Nemiel watched the Astartes race up to the street corner and put their backs to a burnt-out storefront, their bolters held across their chests. One of the two warriors – Brother Cortus, Nemiel thought – slid to the end of the wall and peered around the corner.
Nemiel heard the battle cannon fire and watched the corner of the building Coitus was standing at disintegrate in the space of a single heartbeat. The two Astartes disappeared in a blizzard of pulverised stone and fragments of structural steel. A billowing cloud of dust and smoke enveloped the intersection and rolled down the street towards the rest of the squad.
The squad took cover on reflex, crouching behind rubble piles or pressing close to a building wall. Nemiel checked his helmet display and saw the status icon for Brother Cortus flash from green to amber. He was wounded, perhaps seriously, but still functional. The walls of the building must have shielded the Astartes from the worst of the blast.
Less than a minute later Brother Yung emerged from the smoke cloud, his black armour caked with brown dust. He was half-carrying, half-dragging Brother Cortus. Nemiel rose from cover and jogged forward as Yung set the wounded warrior down next to the shattered stoop of a hab unit. Cortus reached up and fumbled with his helmet. One side of the ceramite helm had been partially crushed, shattering the right ocular and splitting it from crown to nape. Yung lent a hand and helped the wounded Astartes pull the helmet free.
‘Status?’ Nemiel asked.
Brother Cortus sent the smashed helmet bouncing across the street. The skin on the right side of his face had been deeply scored by the impact, peeling away the flesh down to the bone in some places. His right eye was a bloody ruin, but the wound was clotting quickly thanks to Cortus’s enhanced healing ability.
‘One battle tank and four APCs, three hundred metres south,’ he said, his voice rough with pain. ‘Approximately a platoon of infantry in hasty defensive positions, maybe more.’
‘I was talking about your head, brother.’
Cortus glanced dazedly at the Redemptor, blinking his one good eye. ‘Oh, that,’ he said dismissively. ‘It’s nothing. Did anyone see what happened to my bolter?’”
Pg.188 FA

 Bobthehero wrote:
I'll stick with the Mass Effect video then.

And the 10 Kasrkins killing two plagues marines with little loses.

 Bobthehero wrote:


Besides I don't claim Guardsmen can wipe out Marines in droves, merely that they don't fold like wet paper in front of Marines. And that they get slagged by heavy ordnance.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

PastelAvenger wrote:
Think of all his dead comrades as well, he could just pick up a full discarded clip.

For some reason, you reminded me of the russians when they fought at Stalingrad. Half of their soldiers were given a clip and instructed to follow somebody who already had a rifle and wait for their eventual death because they didn't have enough weapons and ammo.

But luckily, SM's are much more fortunate. They got plenty of ammo and weapons, if only GAMES-WORKSHOP WOULD DISLPAY IT PROPERLY! Lol

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

PastelAvenger wrote:
Think of all his dead comrades as well, he could just pick up a full discarded clip.

For some reason, you reminded me of the russians when they fought at Stalingrad. Half of their soldiers were given a clip and instructed to follow somebody who already had a rifle and wait for their eventual death because they didn't have enough weapons and ammo.

But luckily, SM's are much more fortunate. They got plenty of ammo and weapons, if only GAMES-WORKSHOP WOULD DISLPAY IT PROPERLY! Lol

You know that is a Hollywood myth right? The Soviets were anything but short of rifles and equipment, if they were short of anything it was manpower, because all they had was untrained conscripts and inexperienced officers. That was the biggest flaw of the Red Army in WW2. Not their rifles, they had huge stockpiles of rifles. And tanks. Lots of tanks.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:


Besides I don't claim Guardsmen can wipe out Marines in droves, merely that they don't fold like wet paper in front of Marines. And that they get slagged by heavy ordnance.

Claiming this is heresy!

Report to the Commissar immediately.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

PastelAvenger wrote:
Think of all his dead comrades as well, he could just pick up a full discarded clip.

For some reason, you reminded me of the russians when they fought at Stalingrad. Half of their soldiers were given a clip and instructed to follow somebody who already had a rifle and wait for their eventual death because they didn't have enough weapons and ammo.

But luckily, SM's are much more fortunate. They got plenty of ammo and weapons, if only GAMES-WORKSHOP WOULD DISLPAY IT PROPERLY! Lol

You know that is a Hollywood myth right? The Soviets were anything but short of rifles and equipment, if they were short of anything it was manpower, because all they had was untrained conscripts and inexperienced officers. That was the biggest flaw of the Red Army in WW2. Not their rifles, they had huge stockpiles of rifles. And tanks. Lots of tanks.

Oh. Playing too much CoD then. Need to read up more on history

 Deadshot wrote:
I prefer to think of it as Soviet Russian propaganda. That they were badly undersupplied due to the dirty Americans and British refusing to supply them. And still won.

Spetulhu wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
I prefer to think of it as Soviet Russian propaganda. That they were badly undersupplied due to the dirty Americans and British refusing to supply them. And still won.

Well, it's the same sort of propaganda as the western allies totally ignoring the huge Soviet contribution after the Cold War started. The US single-handedly winning the war. Hollywood war movies making the characters Americans if it's a good story but the original heroes were, say, British or god forbid French!

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7Oc-pstqpc

Replace Reapers with Death of Antagonis

Also, no claim of marines surviving Battlecannon rounds, none are being sent their way, still, refer to the video above for my opinion on this.

“But the rest of his retort was swallowed in a thunderous explosion as the tank outside fired its battle cannon into the derelict building. The blast pulverised a ten-metre-wide section of the building’s front entrance, showering the Astartes in a hail of jagged stone and metal.”
Pg.202 FA

Battlecannon in question decimated a ten-meter wide concrete wall reinforced with rebar.

“Nemiel watched the Astartes race up to the street corner and put their backs to a burnt-out storefront, their bolters held across their chests. One of the two warriors – Brother Cortus, Nemiel thought – slid to the end of the wall and pastartes. ound the corner.
Nemiel heard the battle cannon fire and watched the corner of the building Coitus was standing at disintegrate in the space of a single heartbeat. The two Astartes disappeared in a blizzard of pulverised stone and fragments of structural steel. A billowing cloud of dust and smoke enveloped the intersection and rolled down the street towards the rest of the squad.
The squad took cover on reflex, crouching behind rubble piles or pressing close to a building wall. Nemiel checked his helmet display and saw the status icon for Brother Cortus flash from green to amber. He was wounded, perhaps seriously, but still functional. The walls of the building must have shielded the Astartes from the worst of the blast.
Less than a minute later Brother Yung emerged from the smoke cloud, his black armour caked with brown dust. He was half-carrying, half-dragging Brother Cortus. Nemiel rose from cover and jogged forward as Yung set the wounded warrior down next to the shattered stoop of a hab unit. Cortus reached up and fumbled with his helmet. One side of the ceramite helm had been partially crushed, shattering the right ocular and splitting it from crown to nape. Yung lent a hand and helped the wounded Astartes pull the helmet free.
‘Status?’ Nemiel asked.
Brother Cortus sent the smashed helmet bouncing across the street. The skin on the right side of his face had been deeply scored by the impact, peeling away the flesh down to the bone in some places. His right eye was a bloody ruin, but the wound was clotting quickly thanks to Cortus’s enhanced healing ability.
‘One battle tank and four APCs, three hundred metres south,’ he said, his voice rough with pain. ‘Approximately a platoon of infantry in hasty defensive positions, maybe more.’
‘I was talking about your head, brother.’
Cortus glanced dazedly at the Redemptor, blinking his one good eye. ‘Oh, that,’ he said dismissively. ‘It’s nothing. Did anyone see what happened to my bolter?’”
Pg.188 FA

Astartes survive blast and a little beaten up, but otherwise are still combat-capable.

Lord Tarkin wrote:Are you kidding me? A spare mag? Im not diving into a tyranid swarm or an ork horde with that.

Wyzilla wrote:Plus on top of that, if Space Marines are invading, they have orbital superiority. A resupply is just a drop pod away from bringing your squad back up to a fully stocked kit.

TheCustomLime wrote:If the enemy gains air and/or space superiority that diminishes available support.

 Ailaros wrote:

Lord Tarkin wrote:Are you kidding me? A spare mag? Im not diving into a tyranid swarm or an ork horde with that.

Neither would space marines. Because space marines don't dive into hopeless odds vastly outnumbered without support like that.

 Ailaros wrote:

Lord Tarkin wrote:Are you kidding me? A spare mag? Im not diving into a tyranid swarm or an ork horde with that.

Neither would space marines. Because space marines don't dive into hopeless odds vastly outnumbered without support like that.

Space marines aren't idiots. The only time they ever wind up in grinding battles of attrition against hodes is when they have impeccable defensive positions that work against their enemies and they have plenty of support from the fleet. Or, of course, they have no choice and it's a last stand, but that's obviously not that common of a situation for a huge pile of good reasons.

Wyzilla wrote:Plus on top of that, if Space Marines are invading, they have orbital superiority. A resupply is just a drop pod away from bringing your squad back up to a fully stocked kit.

Exactly. If you can move troops and materiel instantly, why would you make everyone carry around a giant pile of supplies? Space marines carrying around ten mags is like space marines carrying around a month of rations. It just doesn't make sense, given their logistics.

TheCustomLime wrote:If the enemy gains air and/or space superiority that diminishes available support.

Diminishes, but unless they can easily shoot down drop pods, not eliminate.

Plus, if things are really going so bad, then they're not going to keep the space marines deployed in such a vulnerable position. They may not know fear, but they know how to retreat from terrible positions. No way they're going to leave them where they can't be supported, and no way a few extra mags is going to stop them from being completely screwed if they get completely cut off.

Rakoun wrote:
I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere in a BL novel about a marine storing mags in his armour... as in a compartment opening on his leg or something? I'd have to check again, and of course it might be the author fething up, but it sounded like a clever explanation, if a little weird.

 Desubot wrote:
From what i remembers all of there gear is magnetized so that it just attaches to any point on there armor or belt. though the thought of a Space marine literally pulling a mag out of his arse is funny

 Kojiro wrote:
What marines should have is a small, back up energy weapon. Bolters are fine weapons but the idea a highly mobile strike force can always be resupplied from orbit is just silly. Loss of orbital superiority, reasonable AA or simply not being under an open sky can easily make resupply difficult. You think the orbital defense control centers *aren't* buried under a mile of concrete? That the power generation station isn't under considerable armour? If you can't put firepower in there you defiitely can't put a drop pod.

Sure, orbital resupply will have its uses but marines are the tip of the spear, the first on scene. The potential for unkown enemy assets to cut them off is ever present and with that in mind they should be equippped as such. As much ammunition as does not impair their combat ability. Further to this though I submit that the core components of a lasgun- sans firing and power source- could easily be incorporated into a marines armour. Mounted on say the wrist or side of the helmet. fired by thought. This would, from his armours atomic stack power supply, give him virtually unlimited ammunition. It would also provide another weapon that could be used up close and a viable alternative to killing lesser swarm type enemies when bolts are starting to look scarce. There's also no reason these couldn't be hot shot quality weapons- we are talkng about marines here.

Point being if you're going into combat with a nigh unlimited energy source it only makes sense to carry an energy weapon as a last resort.

 Kojiro wrote:
What marines should have is a small, back up energy weapon. Bolters are fine weapons but the idea a highly mobile strike force can always be resupplied from orbit is just silly. Loss of orbital superiority, reasonable AA or simply not being under an open sky can easily make resupply difficult. You think the orbital defense control centers *aren't* buried under a mile of concrete? That the power generation station isn't under considerable armour? If you can't put firepower in there you defiitely can't put a drop pod.

Sure, orbital resupply will have its uses but marines are the tip of the spear, the first on scene. The potential for unkown enemy assets to cut them off is ever present and with that in mind they should be equippped as such. As much ammunition as does not impair their combat ability. Further to this though I submit that the core components of a lasgun- sans firing and power source- could easily be incorporated into a marines armour. Mounted on say the wrist or side of the helmet. fired by thought. This would, from his armours atomic stack power supply, give him virtually unlimited ammunition. It would also provide another weapon that could be used up close and a viable alternative to killing lesser swarm type enemies when bolts are starting to look scarce. There's also no reason these couldn't be hot shot quality weapons- we are talkng about marines here.

Point being if you're going into combat with a nigh unlimited energy source it only makes sense to carry an energy weapon as a last resort.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 Kojiro wrote:
What marines should have is a small, back up energy weapon. Bolters are fine weapons but the idea a highly mobile strike force can always be resupplied from orbit is just silly. Loss of orbital superiority, reasonable AA or simply not being under an open sky can easily make resupply difficult. You think the orbital defense control centers *aren't* buried under a mile of concrete? That the power generation station isn't under considerable armour? If you can't put firepower in there you defiitely can't put a drop pod.

Sure, orbital resupply will have its uses but marines are the tip of the spear, the first on scene. The potential for unkown enemy assets to cut them off is ever present and with that in mind they should be equippped as such. As much ammunition as does not impair their combat ability. Further to this though I submit that the core components of a lasgun- sans firing and power source- could easily be incorporated into a marines armour. Mounted on say the wrist or side of the helmet. fired by thought. This would, from his armours atomic stack power supply, give him virtually unlimited ammunition. It would also provide another weapon that could be used up close and a viable alternative to killing lesser swarm type enemies when bolts are starting to look scarce. There's also no reason these couldn't be hot shot quality weapons- we are talkng about marines here.

Point being if you're going into combat with a nigh unlimited energy source it only makes sense to carry an energy weapon as a last resort.

A backup energy weapon? Marines have been known to run out of power, for example in the 5th Edition Demons codex there's a short story about a Marine who is running from the named Hound of Khorne (I forget the name of the lil' guy) and runs out of power, so having a backup energy weapon which drains your available energy which you require to operate your life-sustaining armour is not a good idea, especially a Hot-shot, which uses up massive energy reserves.

 Kojiro wrote:
Further to this though I submit that the core components of a lasgun- sans firing and power source- could easily be incorporated into a marines armour. Mounted on say the wrist or side of the helmet. fired by thought. This would, from his armours atomic stack power supply, give him virtually unlimited ammunition. It would also provide another weapon that could be used up close and a viable alternative to killing lesser swarm type enemies when bolts are starting to look scarce. There's also no reason these couldn't be hot shot quality weapons- we are talkng about marines here.

Point being if you're going into combat with a nigh unlimited energy source it only makes sense to carry an energy weapon as a last resort.