wuestenfux wrote: What's the whole thing with impuls buys? Does it make sense in the miniature market? I don't get it.
They think we're idiots + they concentrate on short-term profits to make the next report look good over long-term sustainability + forging a narrative = Limited edition boxes and books and other nonsense.
GW often put out limited bundle boxes. It probably promotes sales because people who want the stuff will grab it straight away knowing the price will only increase rapidly once the bundle is sold out.
Ebay has changed the game dramatically, driving the value of their long available models down into the toilet but driving the limited edition models through the roof. By limiting the supply of certain models into the market they limit the secondary market's control of both their pricing and sales while simultaneously increasing the demand for their items right out of the gate. If you want the new Terminator Captain, you have to buy the Limited Edition STRIKE FORCE ULTRA (which is a great deal) or drop $75 on the secondary market for what would otherwise be a $30 mini.
Also keep in mind that GW is still limited by the amount of shelf space they are afforded by hobby stores. Too many big kits and the stores won't stock new ones. By making sure that the kits they order fly right off the shelves, GW ensures that their retailers will pick up whatever the next LE kit is.
My expectation is that they start pushing out a new boxed set every year or so, so it probably is legitimately a "limited" run, albeit a pretty large one.
This is all complete speculation by me, mind you, but it seems to align with their recent business processes and actually makes a decent amount of sense.
Just to be clear, in retail terms, "impulse buy" and "Limited edition" are not necessarily the same thing.
While any product can be bought on the spur of the moment and thus be an "impulse buy", the term usually refers to smaller items that are made available (often at the point of purchase) that a buyer will pickup on "impulse".
A "Limited Edition" is just that, an item or collection of items that is only available for a limited time.
Both make sense for GW.
Impulse Buys would be great for GW either it doesn't seem to be a GW priority or they assume their customers are primed to pay higher prices even at "impulse". GW does offer a few miniatures (asside from paints, bits and ebooks) at the $10 price point, and even some psychic cards at $7, but no miniatures at the $3-5 price point where companies like Reaper can offer minis so cheap that folks will just grab them without thinking twice.
Limited Edition is a strategy that seems to work VERY well for GW. They have a long history of limited edition products and making certain miniatures only available (or only available at first) in large boxed sets. GW customers are already primed to pay more, so these products seem to sell consistently well enough that GW continues to do it.
Also, in GW's favor, unused GW product sells quite well on the secondary market so someone buying a big boxed set knows that they'll be able to sell the parts that they don't want at only a moderate loss.
Limited Edition seems to be a strategy that reaps rewards for GW without hurting the later sale of their product, so expect to see it continue.
I really don't understand the idea of them doing limited everything; impulse buys generally aren't for things that cost as much as GW products do, at least with normal people.
It gets the buzz talking though, so that's probably all they want.
I think they have convinced themselves we are a horde of idiots. The truth is, if this is the continuing habit, you wont see anymore younger games coming in.
wuestenfux wrote: What's the whole thing with impuls buys? Does it make sense in the miniature market? I don't get it.
They think we're idiots + they concentrate on short-term profits to make the next report look good over long-term sustainability + forging a narrative = Limited edition boxes and books and other nonsense.
Didn't you say you had ordered this set.....forged by your own narrative it seems.
These boxes aren't targetted at current collectors/gamers/...
They are starter kits for potential new entrants to their customer base. The 'limited edition' tag makes the punter fel thay are getting something even more special.
If you are in the market to increase your wolves or orks then you may get some benefit from the box BUT they aren't primarily targetted at dakkanauts.
Massawyrm wrote: Also keep in mind that GW is still limited by the amount of shelf space they are afforded by hobby stores.
I would suspect the bigger factor is how much shelf space they have in their own stores, since they dictate the range that independants need to carry anyway.
StewRat wrote:These boxes aren't targetted at current collectors/gamers/...
They are starter kits for potential new entrants to their customer base. The 'limited edition' tag makes the punter fel thay are getting something even more special.
If you are in the market to increase your wolves or orks then you may get some benefit from the box BUT they aren't primarily targetted at dakkanauts.
Them you think it would be non-limited, as most will be bought before they even reach the stores to "bring in new players".
Flashman wrote:Whatever their logic, all the second guessing of customers is exhausting. I'm out.
Good for you, it is nice when people that don't want to see or read something don't unstaed of bitching about it, other could follow suit, in thous other thread.
Flashman wrote:Whatever their logic, all the second guessing of customers is exhausting. I'm out.
Good for you
Cheers - it's been a long time coming but 7th "good news - there are no rules" edition was the final nail in the coffin.
To be fair, this campaign box is a reasonably good deal, but it's not a product you can save up for or make plans to buy because within a day of being on the web store, it's sold out. But shrug, it doesn't affect me anyway.
Limited Editions function on the principle of psychology in marketing that states that loss is always felt greater than gain. The anticipation of loss (not being able to get one in the future) can be exploited quite easily. It's not GW specific and is a regular marketing ploy.
WayneTheGame wrote: It gets the buzz talking though, so that's probably all they want.
If they wanted buzz GW would be actively using the things most companies now use to generate buzz (ie. social media). GW run in the opposite direction to that, so really we have no clue what they're trying to do (and in some cases I bet neither do they...).
notprop wrote: Didn't you say you had ordered this set.....forged by your own narrative it seems.
As I've said on a dozen different occasions, I give credit where credit is due. The idea of doing campaign books with associated campaign model releases/boxed sets is something GW should have been doing right from the start. They dabbled a bit back in 2nd Ed (the Storm of Vengeance box, plus a series of releases for Warhammer) but never went back. The closest they came to doing campaign books were the Armageddon and 13th Black Crusade books, and those left some of us with rule-less armies (hello my Lost & The Damned force!). I also have to put my money where my mouth is, otherwise I'm talking nonsense, so of course I bought this because I want GW to do more of this.
Of course that doesn't mean I can't criticise the stupid aspects of this release, specifically how limited it is.
wuestenfux wrote: What's the whole thing with impuls buys? Does it make sense in the miniature market? I don't get it.
They think we're idiots + they concentrate on short-term profits to make the next report look good over long-term sustainability + forging a narrative = Limited edition boxes and books and other nonsense.
Didn't you say you had ordered this set.....forged by your own narrative it seems.
ive noticed lots of people who love to bitch, then also buy everything.
kinda funny.
H.B.M.C. wrote: As I've said on a dozen different occasions, I give credit where credit is due. The idea of doing campaign books with associated campaign model releases/boxed sets is something GW should have been doing right from the start. They dabbled a bit back in 2nd Ed (the Storm of Vengeance box, plus a series of releases for Warhammer) but never went back. The closest they came to doing campaign books were the Armageddon and 13th Black Crusade books, and those left some of us with rule-less armies (hello my Lost & The Damned force!). I also have to put my money where my mouth is, otherwise I'm talking nonsense, so of course I bought this because I want GW to do more of this.
Of course that doesn't mean I can't criticise the stupid aspects of this release, specifically how limited it is.
Yep agreed on all counts. I didn't pick this up, but I did pick up the SM Strike Forces for the bundle and US discounter discounts making for exmaple $50 land raiders which is very reasonable for such a large multi part plastic kit. No intention to play 7th and don't like the models though so I skipped this one, but I can see why people think it's worth getting and I'll definitely consider the next one if they release more like this. People often mischaracterise our stance as being "GW is the devil and do nothing right we want them to fail". It's pretty silly as we love 40k and want GW to improve it - when they do things like this box we say so. It doesn't help that they always couple it with something fething stupid like limiting it far below the demand.
kb305 wrote: ive noticed lots of people who love to bitch, then also buy everything.
kinda funny.
ive noticed lots of people who fail to read the post above theirs.
Yonan wrote: People often mischaracterise our stance as being "GW is the devil and do nothing right we want them to fail". It's pretty silly as we love 40k and want GW to improve it - when they do things like this box we say so.
In another thread az said something along the lines of:
"I spent the weekend painting a bunch of [GW miniatures]. I sure do hate 40K!" in a wonderfully sarcastic manner. I can add to that:
I spent almost all of last week writing rules for one of the 40KRPGs. If I hated 40K, why would I do that?
Yep. In the last week I've read through FFGRPGs and almost bought more (/hug) and considered roping mates into playing it, read through my SM 'dex, played Dawn of War 1, painted Space Marines, received my 3x SMSF Ultras and dicked around creating SMAPoc lists to go with all my new SM stuff - though I have no intention of playing I enjoy list creation a lot. We *really* hate 40k don't we.
What do we complain about? - Rules - Not playing, ergo not hypoctritical. - Balance - Not playing, ergo not hypocritical. - Regional pricing - Not buying inside Aus, ergo not hypocritical. - "DLC" - Not buying any of it, ergo not hypocritical. - Bad 'dexes - Not buying, ergo not hypocritical.
Wow GW just can't win. The box comes with a mini rulebook that everyone was complaining they couldn't get. Well guess what, now you can.
It also comes with some cool mini's and is a nice little starter set for people to get into the hobby. If you don't want or need it then don't buy it.
They release limited edition stuff like any other company, to create a sense of urgency to get people to buy their stuff and make money. It's the same reason Kickstarters give out limited edition stuff if you pledge certain levels. It's the same reason info-mercials tell you supplies are limited call now.
We wrote: Wow GW just can't win. The box comes with a mini rulebook that everyone was complaining they couldn't get. Well guess what, now you can.
No you can't - it's already sold out. So yeah, GW really *can't* win because any time they do something halfway decent they manage to feth it up somehow.
The problem I see with Sanctus Reach is that it is the first box to include the mini-rulebook. Aside from the 22-ox codex box, this is the earliest way to get this version of book.
So, SR's sales have been great, as I for one bought it to get that book.
Later boxes of the same type will not be the first, and will sit on the shelves gathering dust.
But, with this not being a starter set, with the templates and dice, new players will get put off with all the add-ons needed, and it'll fail there, too.
As for some of the models in the SR box being limited editions, they've forced people to but half an army just to get it.
You want a Warboss? Pay the Grott tax to get it, and hope you can sell off the SW and rulebook.
We wrote: Wow GW just can't win. The box comes with a mini rulebook that everyone was complaining they couldn't get. Well guess what, now you can.
It also comes with some cool mini's and is a nice little starter set for people to get into the hobby. If you don't want or need it then don't buy it.
Ignoring the fact it's sold out. What if I want the mini rulebook but not the mini's? Yes I could go down the route of buying the set and selling off the bits, but it's a complete pain even if it gets me the rulebook for free (I can buy the set for £60, and sell each army for £30 without any real difficulty).
So we're still complaining because we still can't get the book. And will do until the release it in another year or so for £30 like they did with the last one.
They release limited edition stuff like any other company, to create a sense of urgency to get people to buy their stuff and make money. It's the same reason Kickstarters give out limited edition stuff if you pledge certain levels. It's the same reason info-mercials tell you supplies are limited call now.
Unfortunately the sense of urgency from GWLE sales is that even core items (like templates, codexes and starter sets [ just because it's not got dice doesn't mean it's not a starter]) need to be impulse bought immediately or you'll have to do without forever. Handy if you're say on holiday or new to the HHHobby unless you like paying over the odds on eBay.
Most companies that do LE stuff tend to make them cool but non essential; alternate sculpts or covers for instance, and with kickstarter it's an incentive to back rather than waiting for retail. But it tends to be stuff that's generally a limited edition and not a "well we'll run off a batch, but since most sales are done in the first month we're unlikely to run another batch".
Edit: the books and characters are already on eBay. If I can get one for under £20 then I'll certainly be tempted. Can anyone confirm if it's the full rules?
I play both orks and SW so I'm a happy camper. Discounted models and a rulebook, plus 2 sweet looking HQ's? Yep I pre-ordered that bad boy the moment I could.
Herzlos wrote: Edit: the books and characters are already on eBay. If I can get one for under £20 then I'll certainly be tempted. Can anyone confirm if it's the full rules?
I checked that the other day, and both it and the BRB were 208 pages long.
But, I can't find that on the SR page, so it must have been in a rumours page, or on an announcement email.
So basically people are annoyed they didn't get in quick enough...
I feel for you, but seriously, thats the way Limited Edition tends to work.
I wouldn't worry, looking at how well this one sold i'm sure they'll do other sets for other armies. Im really hoping they do anyway. Little campaign sets are a great idea.
Reinforcements for your army (or the start of a new one) and a campaign to play with your mates.. Whats not to like?
I feel for you, but seriously, thats the way Limited Edition tends to work.
It's not really how limited editions tend to work. The DV limited edition is how it's normally done. You have an LE version with a slightly higher sticker price and the LE characters thrown in, and when it sells out you release a standard edition with a lower sticker price and no LE stuff.
With this approach you either get the limited run set for £75, or have to buy it all piecemeal for nearly £200 (as you can't buy the mini book separately) which isn't very beginner friendly (you have sticker shock and the hassle of recreating it).
The same has happened with various gaming essentials, which means people feel pressured to impulse buy in case they want to play _____ in the future (mission cards, Vortex Templates, those power generator things, Stormtrooper and Knight codexes) because they just won't exist in future. Whilst that's good for GW in the short term, it's terrible for them in the long term due to annoying customers and not actually having stock to sell. The long tail is normally where companies get most of their money, so I don't understand why it's not the same for GW.
wuestenfux wrote: The new Stormclaw box in 40k is limited edition as were other products of GW in the past.
GW Logic : why would you sell 10,000 Void Shield Generators if you can sell 1,000 of them ?
wuestenfux wrote: What's the whole thing with impuls buys? Does it make sense in the miniature market?
Impulse buying makes a lot of sense in the miniature market. You go to your FLGS because you planned to buy one boardgame, and you just buy one boardgame and two extra minis.
But one doesn't need a PhD in rocket science to understand that luxury products and impulse buying are often mutually exclusive.
Hey, honey, look, there's that luxury car dealer on the other side of the road, I feel the urge to buy an Aston Martin.
In GW's case, let's just say impulse buying may not work if you're trying to sell BMW cars with Aston Martin pricetags that can only be bought in your own dedicated stores.
Why wouldn't you make, distribute, store and sell 10,000 high price tag bulky resin models that might not have that uptake? Limited labour and resources for production, cost and risk of not selling during a recession I would imagine.
Sell 1,000 units, bank £60k+ and gauge demand for future releases. Seems like a sensible thing to do when there is significant cost cutting in the business.
Finally, I walked into an independent store here this lunchtime and managed to buy one of these boxes albeit I can't collect it until Friday at midnight. Cost me less that Wayland, GfG and Dark Sphere to boot.
I'm not sure this limited product is as limited as some might believe.
notprop wrote: Why wouldn't you make, distribute, store and sell 10,000 high price tag bulky resin models that might not have that uptake? Limited labour and resources for production, cost and risk of not selling during a recession I would imagine.
Sell 1,000 units, bank £60k+ and gauge demand for future releases. Seems like a sensible thing to do when there is significant cost cutting in the business.
What's stopping you making them in batches of 1000, only commissioned when you have <10 in stock, or produce them on-demand with a "availability: 4 weeks" like they did (still do?) with the metals?
If all 1000 sold, why stop making them when you still have the moulds?
one thing to keep in mind is shelf space, and production.
from GW end if they release more of these mini campaign sets that have two armies how many will there eventually be? How much shelf space is that at a GW store ontop of the other models/kits?
kb305 wrote: ive noticed lots of people who love to bitch, then also buy everything.
kinda funny.
ive noticed lots of people who fail to read the post above theirs.
He smelled ham, he got excited.
Yonan wrote: People often mischaracterise our stance as being "GW is the devil and do nothing right we want them to fail". It's pretty silly as we love 40k and want GW to improve it - when they do things like this box we say so.
In another thread az said something along the lines of:
"I spent the weekend painting a bunch of [GW miniatures]. I sure do hate 40K!" in a wonderfully sarcastic manner. I can add to that:
I spent almost all of last week writing rules for one of the 40KRPGs. If I hated 40K, why would I do that?
It was a Decimator Daemon Engine.
40K is still the game I play most frequently, and the only system I paint models for (X Wing doesn't really require too much painting.) I have never once said I boycott GW, in fact, much like your point, I feel positively reinforcing things I feel are what I want more of is probably more important than not buying things I don't like, because GW have no way of detecting a sale they didn't make.
I do get really tired, as I'm sure many others do, of constantly being mischaracterised, misrepresented and misunderstood by people who feel compelled to defend the indefensible, but then, they don't really have much else to fire back with!
As for the LE stuff? Well, I've said before, GW are massively risk averse, and I'm pretty sure they're willing to sacrifice sales rather than risk over-spending on inventory they have no method of shifting thanks to their self inflicted "we don't do discounts" nonsense. It will be an easy theory to test, assuming this is the first in a series, as any future releases will get larger print runs and won't be as hard to obtain.
What would be nice are the models that are in the Kit that are Limited, if they were released in clampacks. I am guessing thats just the warlord model for both sides in the kit as the space wolves models are probably the forth coming SW kits other than the warlord model in the limited box.
notprop wrote: Why wouldn't you make, distribute, store and sell 10,000 high price tag bulky resin models that might not have that uptake? Limited labour and resources for production, cost and risk of not selling during a recession I would imagine.
If only there were some way for companies to communicate with their customers. Maybe they could publish a periodical, or set up some sort of viewable page on this newfangled inter-computer thing that everyone's talking about, where people could see upcoming releases and give feedback on them so that said company could gauge potential interest in purchasing those releases when they are ready to go.
Alas, such things are still the province of those ridiculous space-fantasy books all the kids are reading.
Sell 1,000 units, bank £60k+ and gauge demand for future releases.
Miss out on all the other sales that you could have made if you had produced more...
Unless you're specifically intending a product to be rare, if it's selling out in the first hours of release, you haven't made enough of them. You're winding up with a whole bunch of customers who would have handed you money, but now can't.
So no, that's not a sensible thing for a company that is struggling for profit.
Let us not forget Black Industries where the RPG sold out in pre-order and they immediately closed down the division and outsourced production to FFG. While I'm glad the end result is FFG having made a lot of books, GW seems to have alarm bells go off whenever something sells too well.
Jervis once bragged about how Epic: Armageddon did 600% of their sales targets for pre-order and the first release.
Stop! Raise the price! Close down the division! Sales are too good!
All the selling out of SR in pre-order will mean to GW is that next time they release a box like that, it'll be at a higher price. The demand is there, after all.
People love to say GW is here to make money and... you know I don't think they are.
I donno what they're doing but it can't be going as well as it could.
I mean yeah they're a miniature company but... don't people generally, I donno, need an incentive to usually buy a crapton of really expensive models?
Just because they are there, does not mean I will buy it.
I have no issue with a company trying to make money, but at least try and do it well. I give my money to Privateer Press because I feel they try, that they have some semblance of caring of their customer base, not the weird almost dislike GW has of theirs.
I have a hobby that I buy things to just set somewhere and admire, my dolls. And I forge a narrative with them too!
Good times.
Point is, if you don't control the market, you can't act like you still do.
Any GW stuff I have these days (mostly for painting), I buy second hand, and it's slowly getting phased out for cheaper games like Kings of War.
I love when people use 'GW is out to make money' as some kind of defense.
I really, really want to give GW my money, but I am not seeing any value in what they are producing recently, or the value is overshadowed by other things, so they aren't getting any cash from me.
*Actually I lie, they will be getting some money from me next pay when I scoop up the last of the old LotR stuff from my local store, but a hundred dollars every month or so is nothing compared to my current gaming budget.
There has been a market for the smaller rulebooks for a long time, where did you get the idea that the demand only came about after the creation of the hard back? If GW can't accurately determine production targets they should talk to their customers more.
They should know that customers want a smaller book, and have them ready to launch after the initial demand for the big book has peaked (say, 1 month, so they should be out now).
They could wait a bit longer to fix any errata before the 2nd run, but that should only be an additional month behind the 1st run, assuming any sort of playtesting or review was done.
Hopefully they didn't just realise customers want a small book, since the customers have always wanted the smaller books (it's why I bought the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th & 6th edition box sets).
In short: What should they do now? Either [A] release the "Rules" hardback on it's own for about £30 (in line with the higher end of other companies books) or [B] Release the mini "Rules" book for about £15 (again on the higher end of mini rulebooks from other companies).
You have just made a book. It's going to be your best seller. You print up thousands, because, hey, it's going to make you some serious money.
Now your customer base starts to ask for a paperback, because the hardback is too big. Do you
A. Immediatly produce a paperback. You'll end up with stock, expensive to produce stock, left on the shelf.
B. Wait until your Hardback sales start to slow, then produce a cheap to manufacture paperback.
I think B is already here. That's why they've released a set with the paperback and Dark Vengeance is about to be re-released with the paperback. Because they know the big rulebook tapers off. They've done it for 2 or 3 editions before this.
Also I think you've missed an option.
C. Sell the rules as a stand alone book. They've already got it printed on it's own.
I really, really want to give GW my money, but I am not seeing any value in what they are producing recently....
Really, so what?
Has anyone spotted that complaining about a product selling out.. and complaining that a product has no value are, you know, somewhat contradictory?
They aren't contradictory. Selling out has nothing to do with the value, which is a personal thing. It's bad business sense to release stuff that some percentage of customers find poor value, and it's bad business to release stuff that is required but unavailable (like most of the Bretonnian range).
Complaining when GW do stupid things is fair enough. But complaining when they produce good, unexpected, VFM products just shows you're an old grump.
No-one has complained about them producing good, or VFM products. When they do they, they get praised. The SR box set has made me consider starting Space Wolves, since I can get that starter force for essentially £20 more than the rules cost (£60 Vs £40 via an independent)
I really, really want to give GW my money, but I am not seeing any value in what they are producing recently....
Really, so what?
Has anyone spotted that complaining about a product selling out.. and complaining that a product has no value are, you know, somewhat contradictory?
They aren't contradictory. Selling out has nothing to do with the value, which is a personal thing. It's bad business sense to release stuff that some percentage of customers find poor value, and it's bad business to release stuff that is required but unavailable (like most of the Bretonnian range).
Complaining when GW do stupid things is fair enough. But complaining when they produce good, unexpected, VFM products just shows you're an old grump.
No-one has complained about them producing good, or VFM products. When they do they, they get praised. The SR box set has made me consider starting Space Wolves, since I can get that starter force for essentially £20 more than the rules cost (£60 Vs £40 via an independent)
Plenty of people are praising the Stormclaw set. Plenty of people are hoping they'll do more campaign boxes. And plenty of grumps are being grumpy.
And of course selling out has to do with the value. Do the math on the set; there is a substantial saving. We've sold our old rulebook (which is poor value), and will get a bunch of orks, and probably a cash surplus at the end. There will be more unique figures, and more cheap rule books around, and that is a good thing for everyone.
Hivefleet Oblivion wrote: Plenty of people are praising the Stormclaw set. Plenty of people are hoping they'll do more campaign boxes. And plenty of grumps are being grumpy.
The only grumping I've seen about SR are: That it's a limted run and that it's the only way to get the LE figures or mini rulebook. All are valid concerns. Why should you have to buy another rule book to get a character, or why should you have to buy 2 starter armies and a campaign book to get a mini rulebook? What someone joining the hobby in a few months wants the character or mini book? Will they think that's a good thing or a stupid decision?
I think it is a good idea in the sense that GW can control the production budget very precisely. They make say 5,000 copies costing them perhaps £80,000 to produce and can be sure they will sell the whole consignment quickly and net £312,000 revenue (ignoring VAT).
This is especially true when the set in production is of limited appeal; in this case for example only Space Wolf and Ork players who bought the first Red Waaagh box are likely to be interested in Stormclaw, who clearly are a minority of the entire user base.
On the whole I think it is a good idea especially for these campaigns, and I think the campaigns are a good idea. Although I am not interested in Space Wolves or Orks, I expect there will be other campaigns for the rest of us.
The actual bad thing IMO is making your core rulebook a limited edition. I know the full slipcase set costing £50 is always in print, but there are lots of people who won't buy that and want a cheaper version. Until they get it, they are not likely to buy other 40K stuff. (That is me at any rate.)
However it does at least show that there is a mini rulebook in existence. There was an ugly rumour a few weeks ago that the mini rulebook was going to be a crippled version missing a lot of the rules.
The only grumping I've seen about SR are: That it's a limted run and that it's the only way to get the LE figures or mini rulebook. All are valid concerns. Why should you have to buy another rule book to get a character, or why should you have to buy 2 starter armies and a campaign book to get a mini rulebook? What someone joining the hobby in a few months wants the character or mini book? Will they think that's a good thing or a stupid decision?
They have this great site called eBay. You can buy models cheaply there. You can also sell your surplus items there. With Stormclaw you can keep the bits you want, as we will, and sell the rest.
Otherwise, hopefully a lot of gamers have friends. You can go halves on a box, or divvy it up between several of you. We'll also hopefully be swapping the Space Wolf terminators for some Killa Kans on the dakkadakka swapshop.
Maybe the set will help you make more friends. And that's priceless, ain't it?
I'm not interested in what GW should have done, I simply want to know what they should do now.
Except that the two are intrinsically linked.
The desire for a smaller, paperback rulebook isn't a new thing. People have been asking for it to be released separately since the AoBR set arrived in 4th edition.
So it shouldn't be a matter of GW having to suddenly decide to release it after having printed up a boatload of hardcover books. After three previous editions of people asking for it, a small-format softcover release should have been factored until the 7th Ed release schedule, and publicised when 7th Ed dropped.
So it shouldn't be a matter of GW having to suddenly decide to release it after having printed up a boatload of hardcover books.
This is hardly a uniquely evil, price-gouging move. Most publishers in the world print a hardback first, for those who can't wait, and then a cheaper paperback six months or a year later. And few hardback books hold their value as well as current rulebooks (we bought ours for £37.50 and sold it for £41, inc postage, to fund the new set)
The only grumping I've seen about SR are: That it's a limted run and that it's the only way to get the LE figures or mini rulebook. All are valid concerns. Why should you have to buy another rule book to get a character, or why should you have to buy 2 starter armies and a campaign book to get a mini rulebook? What someone joining the hobby in a few months wants the character or mini book? Will they think that's a good thing or a stupid decision?
They have this great site called eBay. You can buy models cheaply there. You can also sell your surplus items there. With Stormclaw you can keep the bits you want, as we will, and sell the rest.
Otherwise, hopefully a lot of gamers have friends. You can go halves on a box, or divvy it up between several of you. We'll also hopefully be swapping the Space Wolf terminators for some Killa Kans on the dakkadakka swapshop.
Maybe the set will help you make more friends. And that's priceless, ain't it? ]
Except you're assuming that enough people will want the models you don't, but also don't want the rulebook. Sure some will see it as a cheap way to get the minis, but if everyone is seeing it as a cheap way to get the rules you're still suck for getting the rules, no?
Plus being able to sell the bits I don't want isn't justification for not being able to buy the bits I want directly. I probably will get the mini book on eBay (I've got a few bids in), but I'd much rather just buy the book from a store.
So it shouldn't be a matter of GW having to suddenly decide to release it after having printed up a boatload of hardcover books.
This is hardly a uniquely evil, price-gouging move. Most publishers in the world print a hardback first, for those who can't wait, and then a cheaper paperback six months or a year later. And few hardback books hold their value as well as current rulebooks (we bought ours for £37.50 and sold it for £41, inc postage, to fund the new set)
The key difference is that most publishers are producing fiction, not rules for a social game. You can wait 6+ months for a book series to come out, because you can read other things first. If you game at a club, store or in any tournaments (essentially everything beyond your own home) then you'll probably need to be using the current book in order to join in.
Hivefleet Oblivion wrote: Plenty of people are praising the Stormclaw set. Plenty of people are hoping they'll do more campaign boxes. And plenty of grumps are being grumpy.
And plenty of people generalising in an attempt to ignore the real points being made.
I'll also make the same point here I did in the Sanctus Reach N+R thread.
Crusade Of Fire "sold out" within an extremely short time, I remember because I was away at the time, and was particularly pleased I'd managed to grab this super special limited edition book while on my phone travelling through central London.
There were/are still copies lying around in FLGS's nearly two years down the line, and they barely reach more than half their RRP on eBay, last I looked.
That the boxed set has "sold out" means nothing until the product actually hits the shops, then, if it is still hard to come by, it might mean something.
Has anyone been able to get this pre-ordered at a local, non-GW, store. None of the stores in my area have a clue how many of these box sets they will get. I have been told GW is not communicating with them very well.
I am a recreational gamer and GW is frustrating to me latley. Ork release was so lame. Had to wait weeks to see pics of new models, let alone buy them.
Now they release a new box set that required you to be tapped into GW and gaming blogs real time to get a shot at purchasing.
Love the models and playing a game with tons of them on the table, but GW is causing me more stress and disappointment than I like to have in my hobby.
tinker wrote: Has anyone been able to get this pre-ordered at a local, non-GW, store. None of the stores in my area have a clue how many of these box sets they will get. I have been told GW is not communicating with them very well.
I am a recreational gamer and GW is frustrating to me latley. Ork release was so lame. Had to wait weeks to see pics of new models, let alone buy them.
Now they release a new box set that required you to be tapped into GW and gaming blogs real time to get a shot at purchasing.
Love the models and playing a game with tons of them on the table, but GW is causing me more stress and disappointment than I like to have in my hobby.
Massawyrm wrote: Also keep in mind that GW is still limited by the amount of shelf space they are afforded by hobby stores.
I would suspect the bigger factor is how much shelf space they have in their own stores, since they dictate the range that independants need to carry anyway.
Yeah, I don't think they want to commit shelf or warehouse space to it long-term. We can't know how their numbers work out without being on the inside, but it may very well be a good marketing strategy.
Well, I just called my GW and they said they can't take pre-orders but they are getting a shipment of them in store Saturday. So this might not be as limited edition as you think. Maybe they just screwed the pre-order process.
Could it be that many people just don't get the feeling that they are getting "something of value" anymore from GW?
Like the limited edition books I mentioned earlier, I loved those books. They were made well, looked great and drew people's attention on my bookshelf.
But that's the only thing I really ever "collected" from GW, their limited edition books.
Hivefleet Oblivion wrote: This is hardly a uniquely evil, price-gouging move. Most publishers in the world print a hardback first, for those who can't wait, and then a cheaper paperback six months or a year later.
Hivefleet Oblivion wrote: This is hardly a uniquely evil, price-gouging move. Most publishers in the world print a hardback first, for those who can't wait, and then a cheaper paperback six months or a year later.
Indeed. The point is that GW doesn't do this.
I agree, and it annoys me.
That said, it's not at all unusual for a company to make a feature or item available only in a higher cost package sometimes even when it's a more "basic" amenity. . Look at the car industry. A fair number of cars are only available in manual at higher packages. And how many cars do you have to purchase a higher trim level, just to have the color red. I've long ago determined that GW is not terribly concerned with what we want. Thus, if GW has something that they know people want, it kind of makes sense for them to force us to buy something else to get it.
I don't like it, but it has a twisted kind of logic. Just another aspect of the "get-em-young and get-their-money before they-get-out" playbook they seem to be using.
wuestenfux wrote: The new Stormclaw box in 40k is limited edition as were other products of GW in the past.
GW Logic : why would you sell 10,000 Void Shield Generators if you can sell 1,000 of them ?
Why produce 10,000 if you don't know you will sell 10,000? You will need to pay to make the product, package it, and store it. If it sells out quickly, do another limited edition run of them. It's not like they are limited in the sense that people want a numbered print or something of that nature because they are valuable. If that were the case, you would not take it out of the box and keep it in the plastic.
wuestenfux wrote: What's the whole thing with impuls buys? Does it make sense in the miniature market?
Impulse buying makes a lot of sense in the miniature market. You go to your FLGS because you planned to buy one boardgame, and you just buy one boardgame and two extra minis.
But one doesn't need a PhD in rocket science to understand that luxury products and impulse buying are often mutually exclusive.
Hey, honey, look, there's that luxury car dealer on the other side of the road, I feel the urge to buy an Aston Martin.
In GW's case, let's just say impulse buying may not work if you're trying to sell BMW cars with Aston Martin pricetags that can only be bought in your own dedicated stores.
Not sure I follow the analogy - unless you're Scrooge McDuck or have so much money that 3 times the average household annual income is pocket change for you, a car is not an impulse buy. Besides BMW is introducing the new M5 with a $138,000 price tag and they have already been sold before they have been built. It will have 400 hp and there will only be 30 of these bad boys in the US. Truly a limited edition.
Technically, anything you don't need to survive or maintain your status quo is a luxury item. Video games, TVs, hobbies, and any other toys would all be luxury items. As far as toy soldiers go, GW makes some of the best mass produced customizable models on the market. You are paying for all of the options when you buy you models. All of the bits used and unused that are later kit bashed later on to something else. You are not buying 10 marines, you are buying 10 marines and the extra bits for other models. It's why 5 stern guard cost so much. Combine them with a tactical box and you can really have fun and use the bits. That's what GW does well. I can buy the same box as you and make my models look completely different from every other one out there through kit bashing, forge world bits, paint, etc. That is the big selling point for GW.
Impulse buys would be new dice, a white dwarf, a paint pot, or whatever else they have that sits up at the register that they ask you about last minute. You're not there to specifically buy that but you pick it up anyway. My last impulse buy was a couple of edge highlight paints.
Edited to fix the quotes. These things are a pain in the arse to fix on an iPad.
wuestenfux wrote: The new Stormclaw box in 40k is limited edition as were other products of GW in the past.
GW Logic : why would you sell 10,000 Void Shield Generators if you can sell 1,000 of them ?
Why produce 10,000 if you don't know you will sell 10,000? You will need to pay to make the product, package it, and store it. If it sells out quickly, do another limited edition run of them. It's not like they are limited in the sense that people want a numbered print or something of that nature because they are valuable. If that were the case, you would not take it out of the box and keep it in the plastic
The problem there is not knowing how many they can sell. That's why communication with your customers to assess demand is useful and how normal companies operate. The lack of communication and the missed opportunities resulting from it are a big part of why GW cop so much flak.
wuestenfux wrote: The new Stormclaw box in 40k is limited edition as were other products of GW in the past.
GW Logic : why would you sell 10,000 Void Shield Generators if you can sell 1,000 of them ?
Why produce 10,000 if you don't know you will sell 10,000? You will need to pay to make the product, package it, and store it. If it sells out quickly, do another limited edition run of them. It's not like they are limited in the sense that people want a numbered print or something of that nature because they are valuable. If that were the case, you would not take it out of the box and keep it in the plastic
Because two productions runs of 1000 is disproportionately more expensive than one of 2000.
Because practically every company on the planet that is manufacturing goods for sale will have mechanisms in place to assess the demand of a new product and to manufacture accordingly. It's not a precise art, but it should mitigate massive under supply issues (and consequently lost sales.)
Because it makes sense to make 5000, whose production costs would be recouped by the sales of 1000, and then everything from sale 1001 is pure gross profit. If you only manage to sell 2000 at full price, you then discount the remainder, because it doesn't matter what you then sell them for, because it is essentially free money at that point.
Small run, limited edition runs have their place, but I don't feel they're appropriate for something that literally any player in the game is eligible to use. Pure much better employing that technique for alternate sculpts and the like, where you're in a position to recover the higher overhead through a higher RRP that isn't unexpected by the consumer, and are catering to a percentage of a percentage of your customer base. (For instance, an alt Ork Warboss would only really appeal to a number of players who play Orks, and perhaps a few painters.)
And while all of that is going on you are paying top dollar to store 4,000 boxes of resin terrain. This may be more than the cost of production.
In a company that is cutting costs I don't imagine too many people will want to put their hand up for such a speculative punt as 5,000 even bearing in mind the possible returns.
Many people here that have said "should have made x thousand more" are seem to also be the same that ones "that things ugly, it will never sell".
One thing that's very relevant is the tiny size of a lot of GW stores. They don't have a lot of shelf space at all (OK, we're from London, where the Oxford St and Covent Garden stores are about the size of yer average toilet). The fact they don't tend to stock many HQs really has to cut down on impulse purchases.
A series of limited boxes that sell out could well be a pretty efficient use of shelf space. Doesn't help big traders like Dark Sphere, who have masses of space, but it's good for small outlets.
notprop wrote: And while all of that is going on you are paying top dollar to store 4,000 boxes of resin terrain. This may be more than the cost of production.
In a company that is cutting costs I don't imagine too many people will want to put their hand up for such a speculative punt as 5,000 even bearing in mind the possible returns.
Many people here that have said "should have made x thousand more" are seem to also be the same that ones "that things ugly, it will never sell".
Unless you already have the storage space. There's definitely a balance between having too many taking up space and not having enough to sell. Most companies would interact with customers to find out, or re-issue a run when they nearly sell out. I suspect that GW doesn't re-run something because with the weekly schedule they are onto the next wave, and aren't concerned about the long tail as most customers buy everything on release.
GW own their warehouses don't they? So all it technically costs them to store is the opportunity for putting something else in that space.
Equally, they're not opening stores especially to hold their LE stock, so, again, the only cost is the space that could hold something that might sell quicker for more profit.
Those costs, diffused over the whole inventory, are unlikely to be higher than production. In fact, I don't suspect they'd be that high at all.
Especially since they don't have to even store them boxed, or on-site, and have their own plastic production.
I don't know how long it takes to change over a plastic injection mould but I'm assuming they can schedule runes for anything within a couple of weeks. Really the only thing they need to bulk order and store is the boxes, which will come flat on pallets.
boyd wrote: Why produce 10,000 if you don't know you will sell 10,000? You will need to pay to make the product, package it, and store it. If it sells out quickly, do another limited edition run of them. It's not like they are limited in the sense that people want a numbered print or something of that nature because they are valuable. If that were the case, you would not take it out of the box and keep it in the plastic.
That's not a compelling counter-argument. You make 1000. If they sell you make some more. If they sell you make more. You don't make 1000, have them sell out within an hour or so, and never ever make it again.
That sounds suspiciously like what everyone else does.
I deleted my post as it was already covered (and better than I put it).
And notprop's theory of the other 4000 doesn't hold water. Why are they holding the other 4000? To see if the first 1000 sell? And why are they paying "top dollar"? I've said on many occasions that holding stock is costly, and that's the reason why GW don't have a bitz service any more, but they wouldn't be holding the 4000. They'd be selling them much like the first 1000.
azreal13 wrote: GW own their warehouses don't they? So all it technically costs them to store is the opportunity for putting something else in that space.
Equally, they're not opening stores especially to hold their LE stock, so, again, the only cost is the space that could hold something that might sell quicker for more profit.
Those costs, diffused over the whole inventory, are unlikely to be higher than production. In fact, I don't suspect they'd be that high at all.
I believe it's just the one warehouse, in Lenton - and deliveries once a week. Stock levels are standardised, to some extent, I don't know how much, across branches (a stupid move, which nearly killed Waterstone's) so a quicker turnover of a series of LE products would almost certainly be more efficient.
Of course there's always the possibility of diminishing returns, for instance the mini-rulebook will be less of a draw once there are more around. ( Until we get 8th edition in the fall, of course. )
notprop wrote: And while all of that is going on you are paying top dollar to store 4,000 boxes of resin terrain. This may be more than the cost of production.
In a company that is cutting costs I don't imagine too many people will want to put their hand up for such a speculative punt as 5,000 even bearing in mind the possible returns.
Many people here that have said "should have made x thousand more" are seem to also be the same that ones "that things ugly, it will never sell".
And also the ones who laugh and point at GW whenever they have something LE that don't sell out instantly, like dreadfleet and some of the LE Codexes.
Also, the sense of entitlement of some people is really grating me now. "Why are they not selling X on it's own". Because they don't want to and as private company don't have to. This isn't complaints about prices or poor customer service, this is just "I am entitled to buy the rulebook/mini/force/whatever how I want!". GW have chosen, rightly or wrongly sales wise, not to offer those that way at the moment. You may think it is the wrong choice, but doing it in such a negative way just comes across so badly.
azreal13 wrote:GW own their warehouses don't they? ............
Do they?
All I know is that holding stock that doesn't sell is a liability that you have to store, then in time has to be written off.
H.B.M.C. wrote:I deleted my post as it was already covered (and better than I put it).
And notprop's theory of the other 4000 doesn't hold water. Why are they holding the other 4000? To see if the first 1000 sell? And why are they paying "top dollar"? I've said on many occasions that holding stock is costly, and that's the reason why GW don't have a bitz service any more, but they wouldn't be holding the 4000. They'd be selling them much like the first 1000.
I didn't suggest (or mean to) that they would make stock to hold back. I was just pointing out that over stock that doesn't sell (a big factor in speculative production) would is a cost. Getting the line between the max that will sell and manufacture is the sweet spot, but in a company that wants low risk turnover a limited run could be attractive even if the opportunity cost of that was selling twice as many, as that would be at greater risk on top of increase manufacturing costs.
azreal13 wrote: GW own their warehouses don't they? So all it technically costs them to store is the opportunity for putting something else in that space.
Equally, they're not opening stores especially to hold their LE stock, so, again, the only cost is the space that could hold something that might sell quicker for more profit.
Those costs, diffused over the whole inventory, are unlikely to be higher than production. In fact, I don't suspect they'd be that high at all.
I believe it's just the one warehouse, in Lenton - and deliveries once a week. Stock levels are standardised, to some extent, I don't know how much, across branches (a stupid move, which nearly killed Waterstone's) so a quicker turnover of a series of LE products would almost certainly be more efficient.
Of course there's always the possibility of diminishing returns, for instance the mini-rulebook will be less of a draw once there are more around. ( Until we get 8th edition in the fall, of course. )
There's definitely at least Memphis too.
Agreed, holding stock in branches is an inefficient way of doing things, it was a major factor in the demise of the company I held my last employed position with - I estimated I held almost 10K in redundant stock in my branch alone (in a company with almost 100 locations, and I know for a fact I was at the thin end, because I insisted on being able to return a bunch of stuff when I first took the branch over) but when we're talking about LE stuff then the rules will be slightly different, as long as there is a mechanism to ensure those branches in need can get stock from those branches with excess.
azreal13 wrote:GW own their warehouses don't they? ............
Do they?
All I know is that holding stock that doesn't sell is a liability that you have to store, then in time has to be written off.
Which can be offset against tax, and, as I mentioned, once you've broken even on the sales you did make, is totally irrelevant.
Stock is also an asset, not a liability, in an accounting sense.
Don't get me wrong, you are correct in that a company that overinvests in inventory and then has to spend money on somewhere to put it all, is not likely long for this world, but the optimum is to always have a small percentage left over, because that means you've fulfilled every sale possible, recovered your costs, made a profit, and then have a small amount of wastage.
Of course, as with many things, this is much harder to achieve in reality than it is to talk about, but it is the good standard to strive for.
My view is that GW have a reasonable idea of how many Space Wolf and Ork players there are, and have decided to take a discount from that figure to ensure they sell out the whole production run quickly.
This makes their budget planning easy though it leaves some potential sales on the table, so to speak.
I think it also primes the market to expect more similar products which people will jump on quickly to avoid missing out.
wuestenfux wrote: The new Stormclaw box in 40k is limited edition as were other products of GW in the past.
What's the whole thing with impuls buys? Does it make sense in the miniature market? I don't get it.
Your talking GW.... DO you really need an explanation?
They put that "Limited Edition foolishness in there to make dupes think they are getting something special, and then the dupes ignore the outrageous over the top prices.
It is sales 101 from a bean counters point of view. SOP Corporate ass-clown tactics from GW at its best.
When I saw it, in person, I didn't even believe that they had sunk this low.
The last dance is coming sooner then I really thought possible.
Kilkrazy wrote: I think it also primes the market to expect more similar products which people will jump on quickly to avoid missing out.
I can't tell if that is deliberate for them or a happy side-effect, which is only going to get worse with the short stock windows. GW would love it if everying is sold out in the first week by people panic buying speculatively for projects they may do so they don't need to get them on ebay for a 300% markup.
A local game store has 20-30 copies of this. From the furor on here I thought people would be tearing the doors off hinges to get 'em but there wasn't a ton of excitement that I could see.
They limited the amount sold online to encourage more people to go into the store to buy them and hopefully buy something else while there. Even if each stormclaw buyer only picks up a pot of paint, if they sell 1,000 sets in store that's $4,000 of extra revenue. My local GW got 24 stormclaw boxes. Haven't talked to my local FLGS' about exact numbers but I know they all got some too. Just because you didn't pre order one online doesn't mean you will never be able to get one. From a business owner's perspective, the way they did this makes the most sense. Why would you want thousands of unsold boxes laying around taking up warehouse space? Does anyone remember the number one reason the old D&D makers finally went under? They were forced to buy back massive amounts of unsold inventory which bankrupted them.
Ugavine wrote: Comics, figures, books, DVDs... limited edition collectable is nothing new. I don't understand the issue with the Stormclaw release at all.
Because with Comics, figures, books, DVDs, usually have a regular edition also.
Toofast wrote: From a business owner's perspective, the way they did this makes the most sense. Why would you want thousands of unsold boxes laying around taking up warehouse space? .
From a business owner's perspective, having an item sell out within hours of it going up on the website means it was underproduced and you're losing out on sales.
Yes, you don't want unsold inventory sitting around. But unless you're selling it at a loss, you also don't want to only sell 1000 copies of something when you could have sold 2000 instead.
Ugavine wrote: Comics, figures, books, DVDs... limited edition collectable is nothing new. I don't understand the issue with the Stormclaw release at all.
Because with Comics, figures, books, DVDs, usually have a regular edition also.
Or to put it another way, if everything is limited then nothing is limited.
Toofast wrote: From a business owner's perspective, the way they did this makes the most sense. Why would you want thousands of unsold boxes laying around taking up warehouse space? .
From a business owner's perspective, having an item sell out within hours of it going up on the website means it was underproduced and you're losing out on sales.
Yes, you don't want unsold inventory sitting around. But unless you're selling it at a loss, you also don't want to only sell 1000 copies of something when you could have sold 2000 instead.
This is correct.
I think GW's strategy is to guarantee selling 10,000 units produced with a fixed budget and not worry about 2,000 possible missed sales that would definitely have lifted the production budget by a fixed amount.
Ugavine wrote: Comics, figures, books, DVDs... limited edition collectable is nothing new. I don't understand the issue with the Stormclaw release at all.
Because with Comics, figures, books, DVDs, usually have a regular edition also.
Or to put it another way, if everything is limited then nothing is limited.
I've worked in a place selling a lot of limited edition Die-cast vehicles, prints and things like that - At least in the UK, the trading standards laws are actually quite specific about what is 'limited' and what is not.
The clincher is whether the article comes with documentation that proves it as being 'x of 1000' or whatever. If you do have the documentation, then you are limited to that number. If it doesn't, you can still write 'limited edition' on the box, but technically it won't be regarded as a limited production. I'm guessing the new 40k boxset doesn't, and so it's limited edition in name only, and GW are free to make and release as many as they like.
If it does have the documentation, the company has to be careful about how they handle additional production. I remember Corgi getting a lot of criticism for releasing a 'limited edition' (say 1000), but then if the item sold out very quickly, they would do a further production run. They would send out communications instructing shops to remove the limited edition certificates from the boxes - if they didn't, trading standards would be on their case.
Finally, I walked into an independent store here this lunchtime and managed to buy one of these boxes albeit I can't collect it until Friday at midnight. Cost me less that Wayland, GfG and Dark Sphere to boot.
I'm not sure this limited product is as limited as some might believe.
Listen to this bloke he knows what he's talking about.
I just picked up my Stormclaw box safely stored behind the counter, over on the shelf there were a dozen or so Stormclaw boxes ready to be purchased.
Now I don't know if this is the case everywhere but this really doent appear to be that hard to get at the moment if you were part of the teeth knashing brigade that said they missed out.
Finally, I walked into an independent store here this lunchtime and managed to buy one of these boxes albeit I can't collect it until Friday at midnight. Cost me less that Wayland, GfG and Dark Sphere to boot.
I'm not sure this limited product is as limited as some might believe.
Listen to this bloke he knows what he's talking about.
I just picked up my Stormclaw box safely stored behind the counter, over on the shelf there were a dozen or so Stormclaw boxes ready to be purchased.
Now I don't know if this is the case everywhere but this really doent appear to be that hard to get at the moment if you were part of the teeth knashing brigade that said they missed out.
I don't think the issue is that people who are aware of the release won't be able to get one on release (there's plenty on eBay already). It's just that in the (estimated) year or 2 between this campaign is sold out and the next one starts, it's not available for any players who get into the hobby. It's not as critical since there's a re-done DV box, but it'll still result in anyone in the interim who wants to start a Wolves/Ork army to wonder why it was a limited release.
Finally, I walked into an independent store here this lunchtime and managed to buy one of these boxes albeit I can't collect it until Friday at midnight. Cost me less that Wayland, GfG and Dark Sphere to boot.
I'm not sure this limited product is as limited as some might believe.
Listen to this bloke he knows what he's talking about.
I just picked up my Stormclaw box safely stored behind the counter, over on the shelf there were a dozen or so Stormclaw boxes ready to be purchased.
Now I don't know if this is the case everywhere but this really doent appear to be that hard to get at the moment if you were part of the teeth knashing brigade that said they missed out.
Well, our store owner was told that he cannot re-order Stormclaw boxes.
Toofast wrote: From a business owner's perspective, the way they did this makes the most sense. Why would you want thousands of unsold boxes laying around taking up warehouse space? .
From a business owner's perspective, having an item sell out within hours of it going up on the website means it was underproduced and you're losing out on sales.
Yes, you don't want unsold inventory sitting around. But unless you're selling it at a loss, you also don't want to only sell 1000 copies of something when you could have sold 2000 instead.
But if it was a general release sale would people have been in a rush to go out and buy it? No. They sold out so fast due to the reason it sold well at all. Slap a limited edition on something and people want it even if they wouldnt have without the limited edition label. GW are smart enough to see an good oppertunity and profit from it. As a buisness should be.
Surely they should be relying on it being a good product to sell it, not the LE status?
I think what the LE thing does is cause speculators to buy it up to sell or split and causes people to buy this instead of what they were going to, in case they want it later.
So what it does is brings GW's sales forward at the expense of future sales (because maybe they'd sell more if it was deemed good enough value), and causes customer dissatisfaction later (because it's no longer available without paying double the going rate on eBay).
Sometimes I feel like purchasing stuff from GW is very adversarial in nature; most of my purchases over the last few years have been either before something is discontinued or before the price goes up, rather than because I actually want something at that point in time.
That's poor wording on my part. It's a "whilst stocks last" product, with no re-order option. So it's a limited run with unique mini's but it's not a limited edition.
The "whilst stocks last" thing always grates on me a bit as that's how a lot of these perpetual sales places (like furniture and carpet warehouses) operate and it just feels a bit sleazy.
Ugavine wrote: Comics, figures, books, DVDs... limited edition collectable is nothing new. I don't understand the issue with the Stormclaw release at all.
Because with Comics, figures, books, DVDs, usually have a regular edition also.
Or to put it another way, if everything is limited then nothing is limited.
Kindof understand what you mean. One of the reasons I stopped buying comics and figures, too many Limited Editions.
But regular 40K editions are available, and it's not like GW release lots of Limited Editions.
Yeah but how many people in the world are ever going to want a Space Wolves versus Space Orks focussed campaign?
The only reason GW did it is because Orks is the first new 7th edition codex and Wolves is the second, so they have a crapton of new artwork and models already developed, and it doesn't cost much to slap a bit of fluff together for the b/g. The campaign is almost a freebie for GW to produce.
IG versus Chaos, or SM versus Chaos would be a much more popular product and would not need to be limited in production run.
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