This is not about wish listing, it is all theory and conjecture after reading Codex: Orcs, Codex: Space Wolves and Codex: Grey Knights. I am only listing those who may get some real choices.
“Chapter Tactics”: ATSKNF Furious Charge
Lord of War: Commander Dante: Makes Sanguinary Guard Scoring?
Chapter Master Gabriel Seth: Either a LoW or Data Slate.
HQs: Most of them I see just getting a points adjustments.
Chaplin: One per Troop or HQ Choice
TechMarine: One per Troop or HQ Choice
Troops: Tactical Squads, Assault Squads, Scouts all will probably be left where there are with points adjustments.
>Sergeant's getting Access to Glaive Encarmine S-User, AP3, Quasi Rending Two-Handed) and Angelus Bolt Gun (12”S4, AP5, Assault2) [this is based on WGPLs becoming “Sergeants” and gets access to Frost Weapons.]
>One Marine can be upgraded to a Sanguinary Priest Replacing his Bolt Gun with a Blood Chalice (FNP 6+).
Elites: Sanguinary Guard: Points adjustments. Glaive Encarmine S-User, AP3, Quasi Rending Two-Handed) and Angelus Bolt Gun (12”S4, AP5, Assault2)
Terminators (Both Types): Points Adjustments mostly.
>Sergeant's getting Access to Glaive Encarmine S-User, AP3, Quasi Rending Two-Handed) and Angelus Bolt Gun (12”S4, AP5, Assault2) [this is based on WGPLs becoming “Sergeants” and gets access to Frost Weapons.]
>One Marine can be upgraded to a Sanguinary Priest Replacing his Storm Bolter with a Blood Chalice (FNP 6+).
Sternguard/Vanguard Vets: Rolled into one like Dark Angel Vets, but with lots of options including Bikes and Jump Packs like Wolf Guard.
Furioso Dreadnaught: Price adjustment and a new weapon option?
Furioso Librarian Dreadnaught: Possibly moved to an HQ Slot or a Character.
Fast Attack: Fast Rhino, Fast Razorback, Drop Pod, Land Speeder Storm.
Most are probably going to just adjust point for most of them.
Adding a Flyer, most likely a Stormtalon.
>Sergeant's getting Access to Glaive Encarmine S-User, AP3, Quasi Rending Two-Handed) and Angelus Bolt Gun (12”S4, AP5, Assault2) [this is based on WGPLs becoming “Sergeants” and gets access to Frost Weapons.]
>One Marine can be upgraded to a Sanguinary Priest Replacing his Bolt Gun with a Blood Chalice (FNP 6+).
Heavy Support: All Deep Striking Land Raiders here
Mostly price Adjustments.
Formations: Probably a big one Requiring 3-4 HQs, a couple of elites and 4-6 max sized Assault Squads.
Detachment: (This is how I think is how they will pull off Death Company)
Death Company Detachment
>Black Rage: All Models gain Fearless and Rage.
Lynata wrote: Considering what they did to the Space Wolves, I'm expecting to see flying coffins somewhere.
If they don't go with the Stormraven I can see that.
I do wonder what the new weapon would be.
>Dark Angels got all sorts of Plasma
>Space Marines got Grav Weapons
>Space Wolves Got Helfrost
Maybe a Melta or Flamer variant.
>Melta...I don't know
>Flamer...A Torrent Version for the Baal and Dreads?
I was figuring radiation weapons maybe. Baal is an irradiated wasteland, plus rad weapons exist in the 30k books. So it would be minimal work and have a fluff justification to some extent.
I think you've hit the nail on the head with your first post though, with the exception that I can see DC either being slot-less, or an elite choice. Seth will likely be a dataslate.
-You really think the chapter tactics will just be ATSKNF and Furious Charge? That would suck. I think our chapter tactics will either having something to do with boosting Initiative on the charge, or something to help us get into assault successfully.
-I think Mephiston will actually be our LOW, but I can easily see the Flesh Tearers being a supplement
-Why would Blood Chalice only grant fnp 6+ and not just standard fnp?
-Death Company will most certainly still be their own unit, and I expect we will see a formation with a Death Company theme.
-I'd like the see Glaives reworked. Right now the master-crafted rule doesn't really make up for the fact that they remove a possible extra attack and yet give no strength or AP bonus.
-I think Sanguinary Priests will be changed into an optional upgrade for squads, pushing Corbulo into an HQ slot.
-I expect we will see our own new flyer. Either a BA specific variant of the Stormtalon, or something completely new.
One of my other though for DC is it would be an Unit upgrade.
Though I could also see them going to a random thing like the 3rd ed? book where some of your models from each unit become one. Though I think that is out of "Character" for the current direction they have been going.
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Orblivion wrote: -Why would Blood Chalice only grant fnp 6+ and not just standard fnp?
If it becomes common place. Also going with what was done with the Wolf Priest, they get FNP 6+ it seems to be the direction they are going.
I think for Imperials only Medics and Apothecaries that are part of a HQ Unit will get 5+.
Some pretty reasonable guesses here. I could see a lot of this happening. I'm thinking that we may get some chapter tactics to help reinforce the idea of the Blood Angels being masters of the aerial attack. Like maybe non-scattering skies of blood or something like that.
-I expect we will see our own new flyer. Either a BA specific variant of the Stormtalon, or something completely new.
Anpu42 wrote: What do you expect for the new Blood Angels?
What I want is for them to do some price reductions and not really mess with it.
What I expect is that they'll screw up the variable army dynamic it had going.
Specifics:
Mephy is the most well-known BA big bad mofo model, so he gets the LOW nerf bat, continuing his trend of being nerfed a little every time he gets a change. (Not that being a LOW is a direct nerf, but being worth an extra VP to your enemy is annoying, especially in say, the relic or emperor's will.)
I'm hesitant to say that Sanguinor will be made a LOW, because that would be the first time to hit two characters with it in one book. Also the best buddy ability vanishes.
Corbulo is about to get bent over. There's no way he's getting to keep his personal 2+ fnp.
They still won't give Dante EW. And he won't foc-change sanguinary guard anymore. The no-scatter thing will be his trait, and he'll lose the death mask debuff. His points will go down a paltry amount, but not enough to stop him being even more overcosted.
Termies and sanguinary guard will have to live with their overcostedness, as the GW rules men drastically over-value 2+ armor on a t4 1 wound body.
Land raiders will be moved to HS, not a dedicated transport. Deep strike removed.
They should do something to help BA chapter-wide about surviving to assault, like shrouded after jump pack deep strikes, assaults from deep strikes, or less random charge range, but they won't.
This is kinda wish listing, but I could see a death company supplement that has rules for captains, terminators, and other units made into DC as a separate detachment.
Gabriel Seth vanishes, generic chapter master appears, Seth's sword is a relic, Tycho disappears from all but fluff. Lemartes vanishes.
Jump troop formation that has to have all jumpers or pods and can deep strike turn 1. Actually sort of good.
Alternate force org of 2 hq, 6 elite, 4 troop, 3 FA, 3 HS. The battle forged bonus for running it is that elites are objective secured. (Kinda lame.)
Warlord traits: no scatter deep strike, multiple hammer of wrath hits, fear, auto red thirst for anyone in a 12" bubble, rage and fnp 5+ together, and hatred for self and unit.
Psychic: Primaris blood lance, less random distance beam type, and in no certain order: wings, which will let the caster move an extra 6 or so in the psychic phase, followed by several of the other powers with no real change except psychic phase compatability.
Relics: Seth's sword, a spear that is essentially a super power lance for the price of several, tycho's gun, and a relic jump pack that does silly junk.
Overall I will be displeased as they try to shove me into the "unbound and lords of war are awesome" mentality that they're trying to push. I will like the death company supp though, and will most likely play through the edition just saying "yeah my successor chapter paints their DC red."
I do expect a Terminator Points decrease, look at both the Terminator Wolf Guard and Grey Terminators.
Both are 33 points without upgrades. So I see them getting cheaper by 2-5 points.
Corbulo will probably become an Elite that will take up no slot if X unit is chosen. The Same for Lemartes, but with Death Company.
I think you are right on with the Warlord Traits.
Tycho and/or Astoroth might also unlock Death Company
I'm not expecting BA to get any new kits. Their flier will still be the stormraven and thunderspud.
Just like the last codex, they will get access to most everything in the basic SM army. So Centurions, stalkers, hunters, grav weapons are all in. However, expect a culling on what vehicles count as dedicated transports. Your no longer going to get to field Landraiders where ever you want.
I do expect you to loose one type of dreadnaught, the Blendernaught is going away, or at least going to be changed so it no longer can destroy whole squads.
Interesting thoughts, this is what I see as likely:
Lemartes, Dante and Seth: not going anywhere, GW makes their models still so they won't just disappear. I think a Flesh Tearer supplement is very possible, but I think the rules for Seth will remain (as they did for Lysander).
Flyer: the BA got the Stormraven early, and maybe they get access to the Stormtalon, but I doubt a new, special flyer. The Space Wolves needed a flyer and got one, BA have had one from the start.
LoW: Dante isn't particularly special, so I really doubt he will be a LoW. Mephiston, however, could get an AP2 sword and go to LoW, or maybe just smash attacks. Dante will probably lose the "SG are troops" as Draigo did with Paladins, sadly.
Dreads: they already have a specific set, but maybe (just maybe) Moriar the Chosen could return as a named DC Dread. I can dream....
FNP will stay the same, at 5+, no reason to change it.
I think the possibility of SPs for each squad would be awesome, but I really doubt it; I expect they'll stay as an elites slot and Corbulo will be nerfed but still a named SP upgrade.
Relics: hmm looking forward to something cool, but not sure
Special weapons: I think the radiation weapons are a possibility, but they'd have to release a new boxed set with them
Warlord traits: probably counter attack, stealth when arriving from DS, a furious charge for him/unit
Death Company: Maybe a points adjustment for weapons/jump packs, I hope
Sanguinor: Hopefully another wound for the cost, 3W is not enough; or he'll get a lower points cost
Formation: I think the all jump troops is probably accurate, something reminiscent of the 5th Ed DoA lists
Land Raiders: Deep strike is going away, but I could see them stay as dedicated transports
Psychic: I'd love for them to keep (get back?) the BA specific traits, especially if the Libby Dread got wings by default.. I like a flying, angry, psychic dreadnought
I'm excited to see the codex, BA are my first/biggest army and they didn't see a lot of table time in 6th sadly
Jayden63 wrote: I'm not expecting BA to get any new kits. Their flier will still be the stormraven and thunderspud.
Just like the last codex, they will get access to most everything in the basic SM army. So Centurions, stalkers, hunters, grav weapons are all in. However, expect a culling on what vehicles count as dedicated transports. Your no longer going to get to field Landraiders where ever you want.
I do expect you to loose one type of dreadnaught, the Blendernaught is going away, or at least going to be changed so it no longer can destroy whole squads.
Good possibility, though if you look at the 6th on Codex's they seem to be making each Non-Ultra-Marine Codex with different Wargear options.
>Dark Angels: Got the Two Fliers and two New Land Speeder and some Plasma Variants
>Space Wolves: We got a pair of New Weapons, Two New Fliers and some Unique Dreadnaughts.
>Space Marines: Two Fliers, Two types of Centurions and a pair of AAA Platforms.
By that we can expect 2 New Fliers, 2 New Weapons and something else the give Blood Angels an Unique feel adding to their strengths
>Something on a Fast Rhino Chassis, maybe some Baal Variants, maybe similar to Hellhounds.
>Two Flyers of some sort.
>A new Weapon System
All with Blood in them
I feel like the Sanguinor will be in our LoW slot, and im okay with that. He's the most expensive guy in the dex. He also kind of sucks for his points.
New flier or two
Im hoping to see DC become an upgrade for a squad for +ppm
New sculpts for Dante/Mephiston. The "Cometh at me, brother" pose is a little old
Possibly a new infantry unit. Blood this and that.
I feel like the blender is out. Killing 7-8 models per turn in assault is too good to leave in the dex. Maybe fragso toned down.
Librarian dreads are here to stay. Theyll get cheaper i feel.
New rhino variant that mounts some sort of marine-based launching system. Someone over at GW found angry marines and thought it was brilliant.
See, I disagree on the fliers. The DA came out before the SM codex. The Stormraven only has iconography for BA and GK. Also at the time flyers were the new thing, so it made sense that DA and even the Tau would get fliers. However, BA dont have the same void to fill. The StormRaven is already set to go with BA iconography and would seem to be tailor made to fit their chapter. I just can't see them getting a new flier.
As for the new weapons, Grav weapons would be new weapons for BA. I think they didn't want to give SW both Grav and Helfrost, so I suspect thats why SW didn't get Centurions either. However, I see nothing stopping them from porting them into the BA codex.
I agree in that I would like to see them not get all those things. BA as represented on the table top look hardly divergent at all. So yeah, in my ideal world they would loose Vanguards, Sternguard, and bikers. Those loses are made up for by the inclusion of jump packs for everybody mentality and the added units of Sanguinary Guard and Death Company. I wouldn't mind if they got Centurions, but then lost devistators. One or the other, but not both. Divergent remember.
I think what "New Units" we get will depend on the theme of the new weapon.
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Jayden63 wrote: See, I disagree on the fliers. The DA came out before the SM codex. The Stormraven only has iconography for BA and GK. Also at the time flyers were the new thing, so it made sense that DA and even the Tau would get fliers. However, BA dont have the same void to fill. The StormRaven is already set to go with BA iconography and would seem to be tailor made to fit their chapter. I just can't see them getting a new flier.
As for the new weapons, Grav weapons would be new weapons for BA. I think they didn't want to give SW both Grav and Helfrost, so I suspect thats why SW didn't get Centurions either. However, I see nothing stopping them from porting them into the BA codex.
I agree in that I would like to see them not get all those things. BA as represented on the table top look hardly divergent at all. So yeah, in my ideal world they would loose Vanguards, Sternguard, and bikers. Those loses are made up for by the inclusion of jump packs for everybody mentality and the added units of Sanguinary Guard and Death Company. I wouldn't mind if they got Centurions, but then lost devistators. One or the other, but not both. Divergent remember.
If we get Grav-Weapons, yes I think we will get Centurions. If we don't get Grave Weapons and get a "New Weapon" we probably wont as it would require new scupls.
An all Jump Pack army would be neat.
[This is a Wish-Listing part, but would be cool]
>Maybe Devs getting a replaced with Jet Pack Heavy Weapons Squad
>Terminator Heavy Weapons taking a page from the Dark Angels and getting a Multi-Melta Option.
Jayden63 wrote: See, I disagree on the fliers. The DA came out before the SM codex. The Stormraven only has iconography for BA and GK. Also at the time flyers were the new thing, so it made sense that DA and even the Tau would get fliers. However, BA dont have the same void to fill. The StormRaven is already set to go with BA iconography and would seem to be tailor made to fit their chapter. I just can't see them getting a new flier.
As for the new weapons, Grav weapons would be new weapons for BA. I think they didn't want to give SW both Grav and Helfrost, so I suspect thats why SW didn't get Centurions either. However, I see nothing stopping them from porting them into the BA codex.
I agree in that I would like to see them not get all those things. BA as represented on the table top look hardly divergent at all. So yeah, in my ideal world they would loose Vanguards, Sternguard, and bikers. Those loses are made up for by the inclusion of jump packs for everybody mentality and the added units of Sanguinary Guard and Death Company. I wouldn't mind if they got Centurions, but then lost devistators. One or the other, but not both. Divergent remember.
I'd like to see them lose Sternguard and have a unique version of Vanguard. The old Index Astartes for us indicated that the entire 1st company was made up of Vanguard, not a single Sternguard among them. As for flyers, I understand what you are saying but flight, so I just can't see GW not giving them some new form of flyer.
What I expect:
-Reduction in points all over the Codex, from Tactical Marines to weapon-upgrades and Jump Packs.
-Changes in Red Thirst, to help us in CC.
-Buffing S-Guard, SC's and perhaps Assault TDA
Perhaps:
-A new model.
-A Blood Angel 'special weapon'.
-Sanguinor as LoW
Surely not:
-Removal of SC's.
-99% of all doomscenario's that people keep making up because they hate GW.
I think the only things we can say with any certainty are:
-Mass point reductions
-Effectiveness nerfs for a lot of things (I'm imagining Mephiston, Sanguinor, Corbulo and Sanguinary Priests in general, Blood Talons)
Andilus Greatsword wrote: I think the only things we can say with any certainty are:
-Mass point reductions
-Effectiveness nerfs for a lot of things (I'm imagining Mephiston, Sanguinor, Corbulo and Sanguinary Priests in general, Blood Talons)
That has to be the first time someone uses the word 'effective' in relation the Codex: Blood Angels And I would have never believed someone uses that word to describe Sanguinor..
Comparing Mephiston/Sanguinor to Draigo or Dreadknights tells me one thing: They will be buffed. Hard.
Paladin-Apothecaries compared to Sanguinary Priests: Priests are going to stay the same.
One thing I could see them changing is turning Priests (and Corbulo) into Characters that have to be assigned to a unit.
This makes sure that they cannot leave the unit ánd it lowers the LOS! to a 4+, which is basically the only nerf Corbulo needs.
And Blood Talons nerfed? I thought that too..
That was then the Space Wolves were released and I got a look at Murder MacMurderson.
The nerf from S10, AP2 to S6, AP3 is enough to justify the blenders.
Andilus Greatsword wrote: I think the only things we can say with any certainty are:
-Mass point reductions
-Effectiveness nerfs for a lot of things (I'm imagining Mephiston, Sanguinor, Corbulo and Sanguinary Priests in general, Blood Talons)
That has to be the first time someone uses the word 'effective' in relation the Codex: Blood Angels And I would have never believed someone uses that word to describe Sanguinor..
Comparing Mephiston/Sanguinor to Draigo or Dreadknights tells me one thing: They will be buffed. Hard.
Paladin-Apothecaries compared to Sanguinary Priests: Priests are going to stay the same.
One thing I could see them changing is turning Priests (and Corbulo) into Characters that have to be assigned to a unit.
This makes sure that they cannot leave the unit ánd it lowers the LOS! to a 4+, which is basically the only nerf Corbulo needs.
And Blood Talons nerfed? I thought that too..
That was then the Space Wolves were released and I got a look at Murder MacMurderson.
The nerf from S10, AP2 to S6, AP3 is enough to justify the blenders.
There's a difference between them being "effective" and having "effectiveness". Sanguinor is ridiculously overpriced and easy to kill, but he's very strong and buffs the rest of the army around him. When I say that he'll lose effectiveness, I mean that I'm certain that they'll likely make him more viable to take, but be far weaker in the process. Similarly with Mephiston - he'll probably be significantly nerfed one way or another. For every Dreadknight, there's a KFF Mekboy to compare them to.
Don't get me wrong though - I'm sure that BA will be mid-tier at worst, and likely close to SW and SMimho. That said, they're not going to get there without losing some flavour and without seeing some big changes that'll inevitably be the subject of numerous complaint threads.
I don't think will be a lot of "NERFing". If you take a look at all of the Codex's since the Space Marine one, they are all pretty balanced with each other.
[Well Nids have some issues, but have ways to overcome them.]
Nothing is truly Overpowered without having to team up with something else.
Even the so called bad stuff is only "Bad" because of their price.
Example: Space Wolves, not a single unit is "Worthless" some are just pricy.
[Well Nids have some issues, but have ways to overcome them.]
.
Ehh, I feel internally their codex is pretty bad. They're still strong, there's just a lot of auto-include options, which is never good.
I just hate the fact that I have to keep including the "Nid Disclaimer" when talking about recent Codex Balance or we end up with three page of about how bad they are.
Andilus Greatsword wrote: There's a difference between them being "effective" and having "effectiveness". Sanguinor is ridiculously overpriced and easy to kill, but he's very strong and buffs the rest of the army around him. When I say that he'll lose effectiveness, I mean that I'm certain that they'll likely make him more viable to take, but be far weaker in the process. Similarly with Mephiston - he'll probably be significantly nerfed one way or another. For every Dreadknight, there's a KFF Mekboy to compare them to.
Don't get me wrong though - I'm sure that BA will be mid-tier at worst, and likely close to SW and SMimho. That said, they're not going to get there without losing some flavour and without seeing some big changes that'll inevitably be the subject of numerous complaint threads.
Not so sure about that.
5 attacks at S4, AP3 with MC on I6 doesn't really seem to do the trick.
The +1A is nice, but a Chapter Banner is 30 points for 12" bubble, so this is worth maybe 15 points?
I always prefer to do some calculations with 'standard units'.
A Chapter Master with Sv2+, Storm Shield, Power Sword (Digital Weapons), Jump Pack, Shield Eternal and "nerfed Chapter Banner" comes down to 255 points.
So for 20 more points you:
+Buff a random Sgt.
+Turn MC into a complete reroll against one HQ.
+1 Strength
+1 Attack
-1 Wound
-Independent Character
-Orbital Bombardment
I honestly think that, with his current rules, he's around 40 points too expensive.
Another issue is that his aura, the random buffing and the rerolls are really ineffective and stuff you don't want most of the time.
The changes I would like to see are:
-250 points
-Aura for +1A and Fearless
-Wounds: 4
-A better weapon, perhaps make it a lance with AP2/3
And yeah, we will always have complaints.
I am personally very excited about both the SW and GK-codex, they really seem to put the focus on the Faction.
So that means they've had two Codices to 'test' the new edition and that will probably result into an even better Codex for us Blood Angels.
Id be a little careful in adding too much into guys. Now I haven't read the new GK codex, but there was a lot of streamlining in the Ork and SW codex. Our special characters lost a lot of their "extras" I wouldn't be surprised to see Mephiston get the Njal treatment. Loose all the little extra stuff that made him "more" than just another higher level rune priest, but a massive points drop as well.
Also dont forget all of the culling of special "flavorful" wargear that both SW and Orks went through, I'd expect BA to recieve a lot of the same treatment. I can't say for sure what items will get culled, but I wouldn't consider any of the unique items safe. Just going off what I have seen before.
We have Hand Flamers, Inferno Pistols, Glaive Encarmine and Frag Cannon.
Which are basically Flamer pistols, Melta pistols, lame Power Weapons and one really unique weapon.
I can't see them removing that.
Oh yeah, we also have Blood Talons on Dreads.
The non-weapon Wargear are Blood Chalices, which are Nartheciums that give Fearless and effect a bubble instead of only the unit.
I don't expect any changes there either.
Jayden63 wrote: Id be a little careful in adding too much into guys. Now I haven't read the new GK codex, but there was a lot of streamlining in the Ork and SW codex. Our special characters lost a lot of their "extras" I wouldn't be surprised to see Mephiston get the Njal treatment. Loose all the little extra stuff that made him "more" than just another higher level rune priest, but a massive points drop as well.
Also dont forget all of the culling of special "flavorful" wargear that both SW and Orks went through, I'd expect BA to recieve a lot of the same treatment. I can't say for sure what items will get culled, but I wouldn't consider any of the unique items safe. Just going off what I have seen before.
Ah, I see that we think alike.
The real question is who will get the LOW slot... I could see Dante getting it, but Mephiston's just as good of a contender (and definitely more worthy, and he might retain some badassery if he is). Sanguinor could be an outside contender, but personally I hope he gets cut entirely because his fluff is godawful.
None of you really addressed the major problem of this faction being a viable army to play....
Blood angels are a Qualitative, Melee, and short ranged faction along the lines of grey knights except grey knights are just better atpractically everything and are psychers as well.
They would need need to do something along the lines of all the following
A. Increase the survivability of base assault marines in some regards along the lines of giving them a free apothecary for say to at least grant them a chance to get across the field without taking major casualties.
B. They would need to come out with a new fast attack unit along the lines of a skimmer that creates a bubble for said assault marines granting them bonuses along the lines of fleet of foot to allow them to get down the field faster while in addition granting them something along the lines of Furious Charge
C. They would need to decrease the cost of taking up death company to make them more fieldable.
D. They would need to grant Mephiston an Ap2 sword and most likely an 5+ Invuln save because as of the moment their is so much rending, and so much ap2 he just can't make it down the field, while at the same time relieving him of some of his attacks, most likely (2)
E. They would need their rules of deepstrike changed to allow them to then be able to move after they deepstrike along the lines of grey knights, however being blood angels their specialty is that they can move 9"after deepstrike. So that they can get safely behind some means of line of sight blocking terrain.
F. Finally they would need to grant assault marines the ability to take up grav guns and trade out their close combat weapons for ranged weapons..
That's what I'd do to make them a relevant army worth playing..
Dezstiny wrote: None of you really addressed the major problem of this faction being a viable army to play....
Blood angels are a Qualitative, Melee, and short ranged faction along the lines of grey knights except grey knights are just better atpractically everything and are psychers as well.
They would need need to do something along the lines of all the following
A. Increase the survivability of base assault marines in some regards along the lines of giving them a free apothecary for say to at least grant them a chance to get across the field without taking major casualties.
B. They would need to come out with a new fast attack unit along the lines of a skimmer that creates a bubble for said assault marines granting them bonuses along the lines of fleet of foot to allow them to get down the field faster while in addition granting them something along the lines of Furious Charge
C. They would need to decrease the cost of taking up death company to make them more fieldable.
D. They would need to grant Mephiston an Ap2 sword and most likely an 5+ Invuln save because as of the moment their is so much rending, and so much ap2 he just can't make it down the field, while at the same time relieving him of some of his attacks, most likely (2)
E. They would need their rules of deepstrike changed to allow them to then be able to move after they deepstrike along the lines of grey knights, however being blood angels their specialty is that they can move 9"after deepstrike. So that they can get safely behind some means of line of sight blocking terrain.
F. Finally they would need to grant assault marines the ability to take up grav guns and trade out their close combat weapons for ranged weapons..
That's what I'd do to make them a relevant army worth playing..
This thread isn't about what we would do though, its about what we expect to see. Which is probably why none of us listed anything to really fix the problem
Dezstiny wrote: None of you really addressed the major problem of this faction being a viable army to play....
Blood angels are a Qualitative, Melee, and short ranged faction along the lines of grey knights except grey knights are just better atpractically everything and are psychers as well.
They would need need to do something along the lines of all the following
A. Increase the survivability of base assault marines in some regards along the lines of giving them a free apothecary for say to at least grant them a chance to get across the field without taking major casualties.
Being able to take a Blood Chalice for each squad could do that.
B. They would need to come out with a new fast attack unit along the lines of a skimmer that creates a bubble for said assault marines granting them bonuses along the lines of fleet of foot to allow them to get down the field faster while in addition granting them something along the lines of Furious Charge.
With the way they are now doing Dedicated Transports you would be able to take extra Land Speeder Storms making Assault Scouts viable.
As for a General "Assault Speeder" I could see that.
C. They would need to decrease the cost of taking up death company to make them more fieldable.
We are sure that is going to happen to most units.
D. They would need to grant Mephiston an Ap2 sword and most likely an 5+ Invuln save because as of the moment their is so much rending, and so much ap2 he just can't make it down the field, while at the same time relieving him of some of his attacks, most likely (2)
They could do like they did Crowe and give him Smash. He might also get a Iron Halo.
E. They would need their rules of deepstrike changed to allow them to then be able to move after they deepstrike along the lines of grey knights, however being blood angels their specialty is that they can move 9"after deepstrike. So that they can get safely behind some means of line of sight blocking terrain.
I could see that as part of a Formation, Detachment or Warlord Trait.
F. Finally they would need to grant assault marines the ability to take up grav guns and trade out their close combat weapons for ranged weapons..
If they get Grav-Weapons they would also be getting Centurions along with all the other options like Codex: Space Marines.
I could see All Powered Armored units getting the option for Jump Packs instead of Assault Squads gaining Bolt Guns.
That's what I'd do to make them a relevant army worth playing..
With the current recorded I don't think that is going to be much of an issue. They have for the most part been Balance and within the theme of the army.
I think BA players need to be a little realistic at what is going to happen. BA is an assaulty army in a shooty edition. GW is not going to give you an abundance of abilities that will suddenly make it easier to assault or even win in assault. By this simple issue your best placement will be mid tier at best.
Your going to get more bodies on the table thanks to some point drops, but don't suddenly think your going to see assault on turn 1 or special rules allowing assault out of deep strike, reserves, etc. Your still going to have to sit out in the open like everyone else for a turn and still have to suck up challenges and random charge distances. Just because you will be able to move faster across the battlefield via boosted engines and jump packs galore, that will do nothing to protect you from the top teir shooting armies that really dont care.
Its not the BA codex that makes BA have such a hard time of it, but the core ruleset we are currently working in. Yes, you will get your own psychic discipline, but expect it to be "meh" quality at best and still probably not as universally useful as the core disaplines.
As I've looked over the BA codex with the exception of unit prices there is actually very little wrong with it. Its the core ruleset that cut its teeth out, not the dex itself.
Jayden63 wrote: I think BA players need to be a little realistic at what is going to happen. BA is an assaulty army in a shooty edition. GW is not going to give you an abundance of abilities that will suddenly make it easier to assault or even win in assault. By this simple issue your best placement will be mid tier at best.
Your going to get more bodies on the table thanks to some point drops, but don't suddenly think your going to see assault on turn 1 or special rules allowing assault out of deep strike, reserves, etc. Your still going to have to sit out in the open like everyone else for a turn and still have to suck up challenges and random charge distances. Just because you will be able to move faster across the battlefield via boosted engines and jump packs galore, that will do nothing to protect you from the top teir shooting armies that really dont care.
Its not the BA codex that makes BA have such a hard time of it, but the core ruleset we are currently working in. Yes, you will get your own psychic discipline, but expect it to be "meh" quality at best and still probably not as universally useful as the core disaplines.
As I've looked over the BA codex with the exception of unit prices there is actually very little wrong with it. Its the core ruleset that cut its teeth out, not the dex itself.
This is very true on many counts, but there will be a lot of little changes.
The one thing I am almost sure of is that Death Company will change again, they can not leave it alone for some reason.
My biggest concern is our Chapter Tactics. The jet pack based CT for the Raven Guard are great, really adding to their mobility and their charges. Id expect we'll keep DOA the way it is, and get FC for all BAs. Like the RGs id also expect a little something for the non-jump pack marines. I was thinking an extra inch for charge ranges and Run moves on non bulky or bulky+ models That 1 inch combined with FC could make a Tac squad charge decentish, and wouldn't be too op.
After that a big general concern about making CC more realistic for us. Faster jetpacks? Assault after DP? That would be just nuts, but maybe some kinda dispersion move after landing. like a consolidate D6 to help against templates. Nothing sucks worse than landing right where you want to and then have a large blast massacre your squad.
I could see rad guns instead of grav. Theyd just add a little extra sprue to the BAs boxed set with a rad gun and rad pistol. Radical. Had to say it dudes.
Some people talking about us getting a special BAs only flier, I don't think so personally. Our stormraven could just get a special BAs sprue in the box too. An extra bit to add rad guns or flamers. At that point I could also see some rad sprue additions to our Baal preds.
wuestenfux wrote: Well, I'd like to see a pt drop for Assault Marines and Termies.
They will be brought in line with their vanilla counter parts....so terminators will still suck (40 points for tactical termies, 45 for TH/SS I think?), and ASM will be what, 1 point cheaper? With the auto-include sergeant gone, for the total cost saves on the entire unit being what, 15 points?
My biggest concern is our Chapter Tactics. The jet pack based CT for the Raven Guard are great, really adding to their mobility and their charges. Id expect we'll keep DOA the way it is, and get FC for all BAs. Like the RGs id also expect a little something for the non-jump pack marines. I was thinking an extra inch for charge ranges and Run moves on non bulky or bulky+ models That 1 inch combined with FC could make a Tac squad charge decentish, and wouldn't be too op.
This scares me too. If the chapter tactic is too melee focused it will basically force a melee build or to play the vanilla codex for a more balanced tactic. If they don't give us some excellent melee tools to support a melee build well....we will be a melee army in a shooting edition, and that's never good.
DOA and FC might be the entirety of our chapter tactics.....full stop.
As for new units, there's a ton of things they could do very easily.
1. Moriar the blender dread.
2. Stormtalon and/or variant of such.
3. Storm Raven variant.
4. "Destroyer" or shooting based assault squad (from the HH era books). Twin-pistols, assault rad-missile launcher, rad grenades, counter-attack, special weapon spam...etc.
5. With access to grav-weapons we could see the next evolution of marine vehicles with a slew of new predator, Baal predator, land raider and/or razorback variants/weapon options. This would also "force" vanilla marine players to purchase the book to have access to these new toys, which seems like GW's new style these days.
PastelAvenger wrote: 10pt Jump Packs for Death Company
Removal of Vanguard
Death Company get rending
Captains get Arificer armour
Glaive Encarmines getting a str bonus
We aren't gonna get Grav weapons that's the Space Marine Codex snowflake item
Maybe blind when they deep strike?
Don't be surprised if DC Jump Packs are only 3-5pts as an upgrade, Wolf Guard get them for 3pts with a similar statline (just less USRs). That said, they're still not worthwhile, but DC might have a reason to take them.
On a similar note, I'd be willing to wager that Sanguinary Priests become a squad upgrade rather than IC. That would be way less unwieldly, and they'd probably become cheap enough to consider at that point (although they'd certainly lose their area of effect bonuses in the process).
On another note I would love to see Sanguinary Priests as squad upgrades but I can't see that happening due to the Red Scorpions tactics released by Forgeworld although I know Sanguinary Priests offer more bonuses.
PastelAvenger wrote: 10pt Jump Packs for Death Company
Removal of Vanguard
Death Company get rending
Captains get Arificer armour
Glaive Encarmines getting a str bonus
We aren't gonna get Grav weapons that's the Space Marine Codex snowflake item
Maybe blind when they deep strike?
I agree everything here, but I just don't see why on earth would they remove Vanguard Vets...? They are part of basicly any SM Chapter that follows codex astartes (read: Blood Angels) and they suit BA theme.
IMO, there just wouldn't be any reason to drop them. Fluff- or game-wise.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I would also like to add that I expect to get other stuff from C:SM to our Captains as well.
Relic Blades? Sure, why not. Digital weapons? Yes please!
In addition, Death Masks would be a cool option. I would propably never use them but might make a nice model
Second the VV staying in the codex; its the most JP friendly (fluff wise at least) army, so why would vanguard vets leave? A couple posters have mentioned this, but I highly doubt it will happen. The SG are elite in a way, but the VV are a nice, intermediary elite in a JP themed army.
I agree that VV's should stay because I think it would be unfluffy to remove them.
But I do think that - gamewise - they are pretty redundant when we can field Death Company, who have Rage, Fearless and FNP for roughly the same amount of points.
I can't think of a good way to balance ASM, DC ánd VV's to a point where all have their use.
In the current Codex it's basically:
ASM: Cheap
DC: Punchy, but expensive.
VV: Assault out of Deep Strike.
One thing most people are sure of is that they will lose their Heroic Intervention and that DC will be made cheaper.
So what is left to make these three groups feel different?
Kangodo wrote: I agree that VV's should stay because I think it would be unfluffy to remove them.
But I do think that - gamewise - they are pretty redundant when we can field Death Company, who have Rage, Fearless and FNP for roughly the same amount of points.
I can't think of a good way to balance ASM, DC ánd VV's to a point where all have their use.
In the current Codex it's basically:
ASM: Cheap
DC: Punchy, but expensive.
VV: Assault out of Deep Strike.
One thing most people are sure of is that they will lose their Heroic Intervention and that DC will be made cheaper.
So what is left to make these three groups feel different?
Which is why there is a strong chance that vanguard vets will go away.
You already have 3 other units with jump packs and if ASM stay as troop choices thats just choice overload and these new codexs have been doing a lot of slimming not expanding.
I personally would rather see Sanguinary Guard, Death Company, and Assault Marines have three solid builds and defined uses than muddle everything down by adding in yet another one or two units of jump packers who do nothing but blur the lines.
Kangodo wrote: I agree that VV's should stay because I think it would be unfluffy to remove them.
But I do think that - gamewise - they are pretty redundant when we can field Death Company, who have Rage, Fearless and FNP for roughly the same amount of points.
I can't think of a good way to balance ASM, DC ánd VV's to a point where all have their use.
In the current Codex it's basically:
ASM: Cheap
DC: Punchy, but expensive.
VV: Assault out of Deep Strike.
One thing most people are sure of is that they will lose their Heroic Intervention and that DC will be made cheaper.
So what is left to make these three groups feel different?
Which is why there is a strong chance that vanguard vets will go away.
You already have 3 other units with jump packs and if ASM stay as troop choices thats just choice overload and these new codexs have been doing a lot of slimming not expanding.
I personally would rather see Sanguinary Guard, Death Company, and Assault Marines have three solid builds and defined uses than muddle everything down by adding in yet another one or two units of jump packers who do nothing but blur the lines.
That's the thing though, Vanguard Vets will lose assault from deep strike. This is hardly a debate - they lost it in C:SM, and GW rarely goes back on these sorts of things for identical units. Basically, they're now just overly-expensive assault marines with very little added benefit... so, more or less the whole nerfed effectiveness thing I was talking about earlier. VV are overpriced right now, but at least they fill in a niche that makes them at least worth considering, whereas C:SMVVs are just a waste of points.
Which is why there is a strong chance that vanguard vets will go away.
You already have 3 other units with jump packs and if ASM stay as troop choices thats just choice overload and these new codexs have been doing a lot of slimming not expanding.
I personally would rather see Sanguinary Guard, Death Company, and Assault Marines have three solid builds and defined uses than muddle everything down by adding in yet another one or two units of jump packers who do nothing but blur the lines.
Matters not. They are so strongly in the fluff and there is no way that they will be removed. Game mechanics have nothing to say about it.
PastelAvenger wrote: Although Blood Angels class themselves as a Codex Chapter they differ drastically from a Codex Chapter.
Well... not exactly. They have Death Company, Priests and Sanguinary Guard.
Other than that they follow the codex astartes' logic of 10 Companies, Tactical, Devastator and Assault Squads and first company consisting of Stern/Vanguards and Terminators.
Why would they follow it otherwise and then drop a single unit out of there (which happens to suit their theme more than well), leaving the first company to Sternguard.
That's like assuming that Ultramarines drop out Tactical Squads.
Which is why there is a strong chance that vanguard vets will go away.
You already have 3 other units with jump packs and if ASM stay as troop choices thats just choice overload and these new codexs have been doing a lot of slimming not expanding.
I personally would rather see Sanguinary Guard, Death Company, and Assault Marines have three solid builds and defined uses than muddle everything down by adding in yet another one or two units of jump packers who do nothing but blur the lines.
Matters not. They are so strongly in the fluff and there is no way that they will be removed. Game mechanics have nothing to say about it.
PastelAvenger wrote: Although Blood Angels class themselves as a Codex Chapter they differ drastically from a Codex Chapter.
Well... not exactly. They have Death Company, Priests and Sanguinary Guard.
Other than that they follow the codex astartes' logic of 10 Companies, Tactical, Devastator and Assault Squads and first company consisting of Stern/Vanguards and Terminators.
Why would they follow it otherwise and then drop a single unit out of there (which happens to suit their theme more than well), leaving the first company to Sternguard.
That's like assuming that Ultramarines drop out Tactical Squads.
I really don't understand your statement regarding Ultramarines at the end.
Although Blood Angels follow the way a Chapter should be set out they act very differently for instance allowing their ASM to take dedicated transports. This could be seen as Commander Tactics but all tactics are sanctioned by the Codex so to me this bit of fluff has always contradicted itself. Blood angels also have numerous weapons they don't share with the tech priests and I would like to think a fully compliant chapter would.
I know you disagree but I just see Sanguinary Guard being our VV and some fluff will be rewritten to reflect this.
The point was, why would they drop something that suits the army so well.
Ultramarines are built upon Tacticals as BA are built upon fast assault units. And both have fluff reasoning.
And different weapons and tactics hardly matter when we are discussing about a unit like that. The only part of codex they need to follow to prove my point here is the system of 10 companies. They follow it basically perfectly at the moment and there is no reason that they would randomly brainfart and drop one unit out of there.
I understand your point about Sanguinary Guard, but right now they serve different purposes.
Vanguard Veterans are mobile strike force in the battlefield, and SG are more like bodyguards / Dante's bros.
You have your opinion about their usefulness/fluff reasoning and that's okay.
Nontheless, I promise you this. Unless Cruddace is reading this thread right now, there is absolutely zero percent chance that the VV will be removed.
You're welcome to come and mock me if that happens, but I just don't believe it will.
The only units I could see being removed completely are:
>Sanguinary Priest, and that is if they make them a Squad upgrade.
>Sternguard [well and VV] and that is if they go the DA/SW route and make them both part of a "Veteran's Squad.
I've stood by Blood Angels from 5th through 6th and I enjoy playing them, I just hope they'll become more competitive.
Bear in mind what Blood Angels are meant to be.....
Fast Moving
Dreadnought Variants,
Death Company as suicidal, homicidal death defying...
This is what I'd like to see some are more likely to happen than others:
- give option for either chapter master/captain on bike to give bikes as troops as they'd sit nice along side assault marines or even just option for chapter master
- reduce jump packs points cost for all units including death company to 3pts to match SM,
- off the back of the above, if death company take jump packs, they can only take weapons upto 12" range, thus trying to negate the relentless rule, keep them non point scoring
- give land speeders with a maximum of 5 troop capacity as a transport for regular marines
- give storm talons,
- make land raiders fast, but only 3 HP as in apocalypse formations I'd still keep the DS rule
- same points reductions on scouts as SM - points reduction on all named HQs except Gabriel Seth (he seems to be quite balanced for his cost)
- Mephiston and DC Tycho option to join squads (we have house rule for DC Tycho, as he has been inducted into death company, he must accompany them, but the codex isn't clear, so I'm calling for codex clarification),
- give sanguinary guard either 2 wounds or invulnerable save,
- give grav guns
- options for rams on land raiders similar to Dark Angels
- give codex specific FnP on a 4+ as per previous to BRBUSR
Anpu42 wrote: The only units I could see being removed completely are:
.
>Sternguard [well and VV] and that is if they go the DA/SW route and make them both part of a "Veteran's Squad.
I doubt this will happen. DA and SW never had Van/Stern vets, only Company Vets and Wolf Guard respectively. SM are the only other one to have Sternguard/Vanguard and they kept them, so BA will as well.
I expect the obvious points drops in line with SM (and hopefully cheaper SangGuard/Death Co), Chapter Tactics will probably keep DOA, FC (random or otherwise), and maybe something else for JPers.
PastelAvenger wrote: I really don't understand your statement regarding Ultramarines at the end.
Although Blood Angels follow the way a Chapter should be set out they act very differently for instance allowing their ASM to take dedicated transports. This could be seen as Commander Tactics but all tactics are sanctioned by the Codex so to me this bit of fluff has always contradicted itself. Blood angels also have numerous weapons they don't share with the tech priests and I would like to think a fully compliant chapter would.
I know you disagree but I just see Sanguinary Guard being our VV and some fluff will be rewritten to reflect this.
Tabletop BA doesn't really follow fluff BA though. Everytime they update the army, they throw in new stuff to make them more unique. However, as far as the fluff goes, BA is not a primarily-jump army, they're still largely built up of Tactical Squads.
PastelAvenger wrote: I really don't understand your statement regarding Ultramarines at the end.
Although Blood Angels follow the way a Chapter should be set out they act very differently for instance allowing their ASM to take dedicated transports. This could be seen as Commander Tactics but all tactics are sanctioned by the Codex so to me this bit of fluff has always contradicted itself. Blood angels also have numerous weapons they don't share with the tech priests and I would like to think a fully compliant chapter would.
I know you disagree but I just see Sanguinary Guard being our VV and some fluff will be rewritten to reflect this.
Tabletop BA doesn't really follow fluff BA though. Everytime they update the army, they throw in new stuff to make them more unique. However, as far as the fluff goes, BA is not a primarily-jump army, they're still largely built up of Tactical Squads.
True.
One think that would help Tactical Squads with the aggressive nature of the army, that will not get is the ability to take 2 Special Weapons.
Now if Death Company is a Unit Upgrade they will not be much of an issue if they keep with them getting Relentless.
Though with the odds of the Fast Razorback become FA Choices I can see Duel Razorback Combat Squads as a thing.
PastelAvenger wrote: I really don't understand your statement regarding Ultramarines at the end.
Although Blood Angels follow the way a Chapter should be set out they act very differently for instance allowing their ASM to take dedicated transports. This could be seen as Commander Tactics but all tactics are sanctioned by the Codex so to me this bit of fluff has always contradicted itself. Blood angels also have numerous weapons they don't share with the tech priests and I would like to think a fully compliant chapter would.
I know you disagree but I just see Sanguinary Guard being our VV and some fluff will be rewritten to reflect this.
Tabletop BA doesn't really follow fluff BA though. Everytime they update the army, they throw in new stuff to make them more unique. However, as far as the fluff goes, BA is not a primarily-jump army, they're still largely built up of Tactical Squads.
I agree that BAs are a Codex Astartes chapter. People often mistake the BAs acceptance of the Black Rage as an embrace of the Red Thirst. The non assault squads need something aside from FC. The problem im seeing is the help they get being some useless CC buff that does nothing to help Tacs and Devs in an edition that makes it difficult to get in to CC.
What else are the BAs famous for that could help non assault units? Maybe those units get cheaper dedicated transport?
It says in the fluff that BA assault squads are always full, even if it means tac squads are undermanned, largely due to the BA love of flight. This is why assault marines are troops.
I just want the codex to come out before the end of the year. If it doesnt i may actually lose my mind.
I really hope we get our god damn psychic powers back. I stuck with the overpriced BA through most of 6th, but when libby dreads and mephy became limp noodles, I painted my BA blue and slapped CF decals on em. I really, really hope that the new dex will give me reason to break out the red base coat again, but after GW let the BA players writhe in the excrement that used to be an awesome dex for almost 2 ywars, I'm not optimistic at all. Even if my heart will always be with BA.
They're going to be turned into red Ultramarines. Most of their cool perks taken away. And they may get a absolutely horrid model. Happened to space wolves.
A few weeks ago, I was talking with a friend about using Blood Angel rules for my Chaos Marines, primarily to use Dreadnoughts that are actually good. I joked about how my "Blood Angels" would explain to their Imperial allies that my Forgefiend was in fact one of their "Bloodnoughts with Bloodcannons". This may become a reality.
Or not. Likely changes will be to align units shared with Codex: Space Marines to the stats found in that book, point reductions for most things (with possibility of a strange increase in points for a unit that was already overcosted), the removal of most special rules (the Fast rule becoming a paid-for vehicle upgrade), the special character special rules turned into Warlord Traits (but toned down), either Mephiston or Dante moved to Lord of War*, some lessened and randomised versions of old Codex psychic powers, and Chapter Relics. Possible additions are a new vehicle (Predator, Dreadnought or Stormtalon variant are possibilities), and a unique weapon type. People have been suggesting rad-weapons, which wouldn't be a bad thing, but I fear GW will surprise us on this and not in a good way. Then again, the Dark Angels got a number of unique plasma weapons, so perhaps the Blood Angels will get "inferno" (melta) weapons? I'm not sure what exactly they could do with melta, but it's a possibility.
* While Logan did get a wolf chariot (which is just about proof that there is a God and that It is cruel), the Wolves have always been more ridiculous than the Blood Angels on the "overstepping the theme" front, so I (tentatively) doubt that we'll see a coffin/angel/blood chariot or anything quite as stupid.
EDIT: A Predator variant featuring the heavy version of their new weapon would be quite nice. I believe that would be called a rad-cleanser, but I'm not sure.
I can see Sang Priests becoming a non-slot hq, taking 0-3 per detachment or some such. I can't see it becoming a sgt upgrade, although I do think it would be cool - certainly make getting a sang priest in a drop pod/rhino easier.
I think our special formation will be fast heavy, like a normal CAD but with 6 FA slots.
I can't see the Rad weapons happening, doesn't seem the fit the high aesthetic and flashy nature of the BAs. Although Jump pack devs with the HH era suspender webs or what ever they are would be awesome.
I realised the other day that every entry in our current dex has either a model or a plastic kit, so hopefully no units will be dropped. Equally I can't imagine what new kits there could be...maybe a DC tycho model...maybe we'll get acess to other vanilla SM units (cents, thundefire, talon, stalker/hunter) but who knows, seems if they did that they'd be no point playing vanilla...Maybe we will get something new. A special BA termie kit would be cool, especially since we don't have a dedicated termie unit, but I suppose sang guard sort of fill that 2+ role.
I hope we get a lot more options be build HQs, I find our current options limiting due to how ineffective they are, when was the last time you saw a BA Captain (I admit I sometimes run them naked as a cheap HQ and hide them in a storm raven the entire game...)
Dezstiny wrote: D. They would need to grant Mephiston an Ap2 sword and most likely an 5+ Invuln save because as of the moment their is so much rending, and so much ap2 he just can't make it down the field, while at the same time relieving him of some of his attacks, most likely (2)
Did you forget that you can attach IC's to him now?
Inquisitors have 3 wounds and they are 25 points each...
Dezstiny wrote: D. They would need to grant Mephiston an Ap2 sword and most likely an 5+ Invuln save because as of the moment their is so much rending, and so much ap2 he just can't make it down the field, while at the same time relieving him of some of his attacks, most likely (2)
Did you forget that you can attach IC's to him now?
Inquisitors have 3 wounds and they are 25 points each...
Meph makes it down the field every time for me.
That's brilliant. Do you give the inquisitor anything? Like PA or TDA?
Kangodo wrote: Rad cleansers are already a thing, just look at the new rules from fw for their knight.
I think it'd really fit the blood angels.
That's why I said it! I just wasn't sure which existing rad-weapon would be the "heavy" one. I assumed that the new Knight would feature the heavy one, but I didn't actually look at its stats.
On fitting in with Blood Angels, read the FW blurbs for Legion Destroyer Squads. Doing something considered borderline taboo by other elements of the Imperium is absolutely the Blood Angel style!
EDIT:
Forge World, Legion Destroyer Squad wrote:Considered dishonourable by some Legions, who eschew them altogether or make little use of them, the arsenal of a Destroyer squad includes rad-weapons, bio-alchem munitions and the crawling horror of phosphex. These hellish devices, which irrevocably taint the ground upon which they are used, have been forbidden by the Emperor’s own edict, and with good reason. For during the long nightmare of the Age of Strife, many life-sustaining colony worlds were rendered barren by their use, becoming uninhabitable charnel houses where once these verdant planets held thriving civilisations.
It is little wonder therefore that those who wield these potent weapons of destruction are heavily protected from their effects – the fire-blackened and chem-scalded Destroyers being clad in modified and reinforced suits of power armour, essential to withstand the pernicious rad-taint of their own weaponry. Often shunned and distrusted by their Legion brothers, the Destroyers are deemed a necessary evil at best during these violent times, yet none can deny the potency of their relic-weapons.
The idea is nice, but I think the mechanic is too complicated for a standard GW-army.
I've always preferred stuff like Melta/flamers for Blood Angels, for some reason it seems to fit their 'in your face'-style.
Rad cleanser is great, it's basically a poisoned flamer, which they could easily implement (even without the Rad-phage rule).
It also fits the Fast vehicle and the Deep Strike-aspect of the BA.
I meant rad/chem weapons in general, not just Destroyer Squads in 40k! They really aren't seen often enough. Outside of 30k, the only chem weapon I know of is the Bane Wolf's.
evildrcheese wrote: I can see Sang Priests becoming a non-slot hq, taking 0-3 per detachment or some such. I can't see it becoming a sgt upgrade, although I do think it would be cool - certainly make getting a sang priest in a drop pod/rhino easier.
I think our special formation will be fast heavy, like a normal CAD but with 6 FA slots.
I can't see the Rad weapons happening, doesn't seem the fit the high aesthetic and flashy nature of the BAs. Although Jump pack devs with the HH era suspender webs or what ever they are would be awesome.
I realised the other day that every entry in our current dex has either a model or a plastic kit, so hopefully no units will be dropped. Equally I can't imagine what new kits there could be...maybe a DC tycho model...maybe we'll get acess to other vanilla SM units (cents, thundefire, talon, stalker/hunter) but who knows, seems if they did that they'd be no point playing vanilla...Maybe we will get something new. A special BA termie kit would be cool, especially since we don't have a dedicated termie unit, but I suppose sang guard sort of fill that 2+ role.
I hope we get a lot more options be build HQs, I find our current options limiting due to how ineffective they are, when was the last time you saw a BA Captain (I admit I sometimes run them naked as a cheap HQ and hide them in a storm raven the entire game...)
D
Approved
Now that I think of it, Sanguinary Priests might fit the "unslotted HQ slot" really well. The uprgade option just doesn't seem likely to me.
My friend and I talked about the codex as well and his theory is that if we get a formation as well (most likely), DoA will be removed as an army special rule and become available trouhg that formation. Don't know, might happen.
I'm not sure of the new kit. The universal SM Assault Squad box might get a re-working with the codex. We got our special snowflake stuff couple of editions ago.
Stalker/Hunter, not sure. Cents, might be. Thunderfire, hardly. Talon, propably.
I highly doubt Centurions, Thunderfires or the Stalker/Hunter will go to the Blood Angels. A Storm Talon variant (or just a Storm Talon) is quite probable, though. I'd quite like for the Blood Angels to get something like the Nephilim Jetfighter, although more successful in the attempt to fix the Storm Talon.
Dezstiny wrote: D. They would need to grant Mephiston an Ap2 sword and most likely an 5+ Invuln save because as of the moment their is so much rending, and so much ap2 he just can't make it down the field, while at the same time relieving him of some of his attacks, most likely (2)
Did you forget that you can attach IC's to him now?
Inquisitors have 3 wounds and they are 25 points each...
Meph makes it down the field every time for me.
That's brilliant. Do you give the inquisitor anything? Like PA or TDA?
D
Nope, they are there to die, 3 wounds extra, and they all get Look Out Sir on a 2+, I usually run 4 inquisitors with meph because plasma will ID the inquisitors.
Dezstiny wrote: D. They would need to grant Mephiston an Ap2 sword and most likely an 5+ Invuln save because as of the moment their is so much rending, and so much ap2 he just can't make it down the field, while at the same time relieving him of some of his attacks, most likely (2)
Did you forget that you can attach IC's to him now?
Inquisitors have 3 wounds and they are 25 points each...
Meph makes it down the field every time for me.
That's brilliant. Do you give the inquisitor anything? Like PA or TDA?
D
Nope, they are there to die, 3 wounds extra, and they all get Look Out Sir on a 2+, I usually run 4 inquisitors with meph because plasma will ID the inquisitors.
I think that the problem here is that three of them lowers the toughness of Mephiston to three.
Might still be good tho. Mephy might benefit greatly of one set of Rad grenades (instakill to T4) or Pychotroke to boost assault.
BaalSNAFU wrote: I really hope we get our god damn psychic powers back.
Why? None of the BA powers are special anymore. Some are straight out copied by BRB powers, others are really similar.
Blood Boil- (Sanctic) Purge Soul or (Pyromancy) Spontaneus Combustion
Fear of the Darkness- (Telepathy) Terrify
Might of Heroes- (Biomancy) Warp Speed
Shackle Soul- (Telepathy) Dominate
Shield of Sanguinus- (Telekinesis) Telekine Dome
Smite- (Biomancy) Smite
Blood Lance- (Pyromancy) Molten Beam
Sanguine Sword- (Biomancy) Iron Arm
Unleash Rage- (Divination) Prescience
Wings of Sanguinus- (Telekinesis) Levitation
What I'd love to see, model-wise, is a reworked Assault Squad done to the same level as the brilliant new tactical squad, and with 10 guys in it for around £30.
I'm thinking fast vehicles will be an upgrade rather than a built in cost...it'd be super cool if they allowed LRs to be fast, especially if they lose DS.
I wonder if Libby dreads will remain as an upgrade or get their own slot...I'm basing this on the new codex formats with a model picture rather than art, seems a shame to not have both the Libby and furioso as entries. Makes little difference I guess.
The LoW is an interesting Q. Obviously Meth is a scary beast with what's basically a Primarch's profile, but will they use the chapter master as per wolves/gk. There's even a case for the Sanguinor due to his slightly mythical status...
I'm hopeful about the relics and what we might get, I thought the SW wolves were both fluffy and had potential to use on the tabletop.
BaalSNAFU wrote: I really hope we get our god damn psychic powers back.
Why? None of the BA powers are special anymore. Some are straight out copied by BRB powers, others are really similar.
Blood Boil- (Sanctic) Purge Soul or (Pyromancy) Spontaneus Combustion
Fear of the Darkness- (Telepathy) Terrify
Might of Heroes- (Biomancy) Warp Speed
Shackle Soul- (Telepathy) Dominate
Shield of Sanguinus- (Telekinesis) Telekine Dome
Smite- (Biomancy) Smite
Blood Lance- (Pyromancy) Molten Beam
Sanguine Sword- (Biomancy) Iron Arm
Unleash Rage- (Divination) Prescience
Wings of Sanguinus- (Telekinesis) Levitation
Because what made BA Libbys really fun to use were specific combinations of these like Fear of the Dark and Wings on a dreadnought, for example that the main book prohibits access to by stringing them out over two or even 3 disciplines. And how would they give mephy his oomph back? Give him loremaster over 3 domains?I'm surw non-BA players would be totally cool with that...Even of the desogners did allow you to mix and match disciplines, there would be an utterly abysmal chance of getting the ones you are after.At least with them all being on a BA chart its possible and your odds significantly improve.
If for no other reason, the space puppies got theirs back not even a month after they lost em.
They bloody better do something about sanguinary guard and jpHG! I have 20 SG and 10 JPHG who rarely get a game!
Points drop SG to 32/33pts each and HG get a 2+. Yes they will be very similar then, but neither incarnation works even slightly well atm.
Poly Ranger wrote: They bloody better do something about sanguinary guard and jpHG! I have 20 SG and 10 JPHG who rarely get a game!
Points drop SG to 32/33pts each and HG get a 2+. Yes they will be very similar then, but neither incarnation works even slightly well atm.
I also have 20 Sanguinary Guards. :(
I'm hoping for one of two things:
1) Significant point drop. 150 points for the unit (30ppm).
2) The ability to actually do something. Current points, an invul save, WS5, and an extra attack. Hell, throw in FnP base. And that's just being conservative. Even with all that I'm not even sure they'd be worth it.
Davor wrote:Only thing I can think of for BA would be bigger Nipples.
I hate to see what GW is thinking for BA after all these years. Be afraid, be very afraid.
One thing I can be certain of for the BA codex....I will be disappointed, especially after the, erm, mediocrity, that the last few codexes have embodied.
Thud wrote:
Poly Ranger wrote: They bloody better do something about sanguinary guard and jpHG! I have 20 SG and 10 JPHG who rarely get a game!
Points drop SG to 32/33pts each and HG get a 2+. Yes they will be very similar then, but neither incarnation works even slightly well atm.
I also have 20 Sanguinary Guards. :(
I'm hoping for one of two things:
1) Significant point drop. 150 points for the unit (30ppm).
2) The ability to actually do something. Current points, an invul save, WS5, and an extra attack. Hell, throw in FnP base. And that's just being conservative. Even with all that I'm not even sure they'd be worth it.
At their current stat line, they would be BARELY worth 30 points, 28 is more like it IMO.
Yeah jp or no jp options for some special characters would be good, I wouldn't invest too much hope in to that that.
I can see the squad size for Sang Guard increasing, that would probably help. A serious re-work of the death masks is due, may granting re-rolls to hit/wound seems to fit the bill. Glaive encarmines could maybe provide a strength bonus for being two-handed on top of any strength bonus from the weapon.
The inferno pistols are too short range in my opinion, they either need a profile rejig or greater range.
evildrcheese wrote: Yeah jp or no jp options for some special characters would be good, I wouldn't invest too much hope in to that that.
I can see the squad size for Sang Guard increasing, that would probably help. A serious re-work of the death masks is due, may granting re-rolls to hit/wound seems to fit the bill. Glaive encarmines could maybe provide a strength bonus for being two-handed on top of any strength bonus from the weapon.
The inferno pistols are too short range in my opinion, they either need a profile rejig or greater range.
D
Death Mask: I could also see then reducing Initiative.
Glaive Encarmine: I could see them going the route of Similar to Frost Weapons, S+1 or +2 or going to AP2. I just want to see them become available to Characters.
Inferno Pistol: I would love to see them have a better range, but they are sticking with the Melta Profile of 1/2 the range of normal weapons so I don't see that happening.
Infernus pistols wont change. The uncreative solution to death masks is to make them cause fear, which is worse than what they do now. Glaive encarmines will probably change to match what forgeworld has been doing with them, which is ap3, 2 handed and master crafted but +1str on the charge, meaning that with furious charge sg would be str6. Im ok with that.
Furyou Miko wrote: Maybe they might even make the Glaives Encarmine... into actual glaives instead of whatever sword junk they blu-tacked the name to.
Well that depends on what type of actual glaive you are talking about. The polearm, the sword, or the throwing weapon? To add more confusion to the mix, in Fear to Tread it is mentioned that Sanguinius has a glaive build into his vambrace, presumably meaning curved blades extending out from his forearm. That particular one does not fit with any of the modern uses for the word, but sword actually does.
The historical glaive was a polearm. The throwing weapon was invented for the Blade movies. The only kind of sword to be called a glaive was the French transliteration of the latin Gladius.
Furyou Miko wrote: The historical glaive was a polearm. The throwing weapon was invented for the Blade movies. The only kind of sword to be called a glaive was the French transliteration of the latin Gladius.
Yes, but the word the French derived from gladius came before the word was used to describe a type of polearm. And it wasn't the Blade movies, it was Krull
evildrcheese wrote: Would making infurnus something like S7, beam br reasonable?
Hell, I could even go with S7, Melta, 10" Range.
It's just silly having to love dudes to get close to a vehicle and it explode in your face... No wonder other Chapters stopped using them.
D
They cant change the pistol simply because its also represented in other codexs and as such, GW likes to keep all things with the same name the same. Now they could change it and give it a completely different name, but that is a direction that GW has not gone in this latest grouping of Codex. If anything they are reducing the amount of wargear available, not increasing it.
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th3maninblak wrote: Infernus pistols wont change. The uncreative solution to death masks is to make them cause fear, which is worse than what they do now. Glaive encarmines will probably change to match what forgeworld has been doing with them, which is ap3, 2 handed and master crafted but +1str on the charge, meaning that with furious charge sg would be str6. Im ok with that.
Or sadly, they could just drop Death Masks all together, it happened to SW neclaces, talismans, etc, no wargear is safe. And Glaives could simply become relic blades.
Its sad, but looking at how the last few codexs have trimmed the goods, I wouldn't be surprised.
IMO Sang Guard should be upped to WS5/ I5 and get a 5++ if they're to stay the same cost-wise. Make the glaives mastercrafted relic blades. Alter the masks to cause fear. If not, cut 10 or 12 ppoints off the cost/per. As it is, they're just fabulous honor guard with JPs and crappier melee options for almost twice as much.
th3maninblak wrote: If sang guard were 30 to 33 points per model and had relic blades, it would be hot to death.
The death masks are specific models worked into the sanguinary guard kit. There is little to no chance we'll lose them entirely.
Wolves had Wolf Tail Talismans included to, but that did not stop their removal.
I would like them to stay in some form, but I don't think they are necessary, especially if there is a price drop.
Yeah, Death Masks are cool looking, but I'd be surprised if they didn't simplify them to giving Fear or something silly like that, if they don't remove them entirely.
On the top of Sanguinary Guard costs though, assuming they don't change much, then they'll probably end up around 30pts each. You have to remember, they're basically PW Tactical Terminators, but trading a 5++ for a Jump Pack. Against AP3 or weaker, they're at least 2x as survivable as an Assault Marine, so they have to be appropriately costed or they'll be too good, or make Assault Marines feel useless. Giving them a 5++ just makes them too good, and makes non-TH/SS Termies completely useless.
th3maninblak wrote: If sang guard were 30 to 33 points per model and had relic blades, it would be hot to death.
The death masks are specific models worked into the sanguinary guard kit. There is little to no chance we'll lose them entirely.
Wolves had Wolf Tail Talismans included to, but that did not stop their removal.
I would like them to stay in some form, but I don't think they are necessary, especially if there is a price drop.
Yeah, Death Masks are cool looking, but I'd be surprised if they didn't simplify them to giving Fear or something silly like that, if they don't remove them entirely.
On the top of Sanguinary Guard costs though, assuming they don't change much, then they'll probably end up around 30pts each. You have to remember, they're basically PW Tactical Terminators, but trading a 5++ for a Jump Pack. Against AP3 or weaker, they're at least 2x as survivable as an Assault Marine, so they have to be appropriately costed or they'll be too good, or make Assault Marines feel useless. Giving them a 5++ just makes them too good, and makes non-TH/SS Termies completely useless.
I could see them reaching into the 20s of you compare them toe the Grey Knight Interceptors. With the 2+ Save and Power Weapon, even if it is just a Relic Blade I think that 28-32 ppm reasonable without upgrades
th3maninblak wrote: If sang guard were 30 to 33 points per model and had relic blades, it would be hot to death.
The death masks are specific models worked into the sanguinary guard kit. There is little to no chance we'll lose them entirely.
Wolves had Wolf Tail Talismans included to, but that did not stop their removal.
I would like them to stay in some form, but I don't think they are necessary, especially if there is a price drop.
Yeah, Death Masks are cool looking, but I'd be surprised if they didn't simplify them to giving Fear or something silly like that, if they don't remove them entirely.
On the top of Sanguinary Guard costs though, assuming they don't change much, then they'll probably end up around 30pts each. You have to remember, they're basically PW Tactical Terminators, but trading a 5++ for a Jump Pack. Against AP3 or weaker, they're at least 2x as survivable as an Assault Marine, so they have to be appropriately costed or they'll be too good, or make Assault Marines feel useless. Giving them a 5++ just makes them too good, and makes non-TH/SS Termies completely useless.
Given that the seem to have recalibrated what they think terminators (or at least terminators without power fists) are worth in the Wolf and GK books, though, and that they drastically lowered the cost of jump packs (in Codex: SM, anyway), I think it's fair to count on SG being seriously discounted in the next codex. I think 30-35 points is where they'll end up. Time will tell if that's cheap enough to make them GOOD, but it should be cheap enough to make them fun-fun at least.
Sanguinary guard at 30ppm would be perfect, even as they are now. Glaive encarmines are ok, particularly given the option of having either a sword or axe. The only change i would like to see on them is the angelus pattern boltguns going to 18 inch range. They would be perfect and really strong, imo, if they made that change.
As for relics, i would like to see a special jump pack, maybe a sanguinary priest relic chalice, a rending chainsword with shred, and a suit of artificer armor that does something special, like grant eternal warrior, +1 toughness, or the like.
+1 T from relic armour would be sweet. It would mean we could keep our fluffy jump packs but still be on par with chapter masters on bikes etc.
Rending chain sword could happen, as it's what colubo has already.
I can imagine a JP being a relic, but no idea what it might do.
Maybe a chalice that affects red thirst ala wolfen stone.
What supplement do you think we'll get? Flesh Tears seems the obvious choice as they already do shoulder pads etc forr them. Although I'd like to see a more generic BA successors supplement.
Orblivion wrote: One of the latest rumors states there will be a new "Sanuinary" unit in terminator armor? Could we possibly be getting a jump pack terminator squad?
No more likely a Special Terminator Unit like Deathwing Knights.
Orblivion wrote: One of the latest rumors states there will be a new "Sanuinary" unit in terminator armor? Could we possibly be getting a jump pack terminator squad?
Got a link to that?
Is like to see a unique TDA kit, as the SW, DA and GK ones are all great, and compared to the SH Termies, the basic termie kit is a little bland and it would be nice to have something more detailed/unique to mix in without heavy converting. I know SH Termies aren't felt meant for 40k, but I and I'm sure many others will be using them.
On the other hand, I'd be compelled for the sake of consistency to replace or seriously bling up the two TDA Priests I've just converted...
1: I don't think Ba will get grav, since they already have melta and flamer pistols, which other SM dont have.
2. No centurions, because fluff wise the ad mech hates the blood Angels, and game wise it's one of the three unique units (t-fires) that c:sm have.
3. No unique psychic powers. Maybe the dreads will, but I doubt it. After all, SW got it because they are special snowflakes and don't use 'librarians', they use 'rune priests' that harness the power of the warp.
4. Probably a light flyer, if you don't just get stormtalons.
5. Other than that, what other people said, Focus on the jump pack side of Blood Angels, reduced scatter for jump packs, raven guard's bonus for moving/charging, and something to show the black rage. Probably either furious charge or rage.
Latest rumors posted on BoLS point to the angels coming out in mid november, after the 4-5 week end times part 2 release. Anyone know how reliable the source is? Its from steve_the_warboss.
The special jump pack would probably do something with hammer of wrath. Like d6+1 str5 hits, regardless of whether or not you used your pack in the movement phase.
th3maninblak wrote: Latest rumors posted on BoLS point to the angels coming out in mid november, after the 4-5 week end times part 2 release. Anyone know how reliable the source is? Its from steve_the_warboss.
The special jump pack would probably do something with hammer of wrath. Like d6+1 str5 hits, regardless of whether or not you used your pack in the movement phase.
Or
>Let the Jet Packs be used in both Movement and Assault.
or
>No Scatter Deep Strike.
th3maninblak wrote: Latest rumors posted on BoLS point to the angels coming out in mid november, after the 4-5 week end times part 2 release. Anyone know how reliable the source is? Its from steve_the_warboss.
I think that's more a matter of looking at the schedule and trying to figure out what works best, logically. Like, that's when I'd guess it's coming out, but I also guess that this dude on BoLS has the same number of sources I do (which is none).
As for guesses about the supplement, I'd guess that there will be a Death Company heavy supplement or formation that we see either in the main codex or in the corresponding supplement.
This source has been right before, particularly in regards to the dark eldar release (like the schedule of what is getting spoiled in white dwarf and when) so i would put the rumors at slightly above average reliability.
Fair enough. Even still, I think "Blood Angels will be after The End Time part 2" is what anybody would guess at this point, so it doesn't really take any special knowledge to report that. If this source has some solid rumors on what we're getting or losing, THAT is something I'd be interested in.
tomjoad wrote: Fair enough. Even still, I think "Blood Angels will be after The End Time part 2" is what anybody would guess at this point, so it doesn't really take any special knowledge to report that. If this source has some solid rumors on what we're getting or losing, THAT is something I'd be interested in.
Logic would dictate that we arent losing anything, since everything in our codex has models at this point. My predictions are as follows.
-Mephiston and the Sanguinor move to lords of war. Mephy gets more expensive, but gains an ap2 weapon and gets back his old mobility. The sanguinor takes a mild price decrease.
-Dante stays an HQ. He gets cheaper, and his weapon becomes str user, ap2 and master crafted. His death mask changes, but his hit and run and precision deep strike abilities remain. Moving sanguinary guard to troops will vanish, being replaced by some kind of warlord trait manipulation.
-All of our units change in points cost to match the space marine books. Vanguard vets change in rules to match codex SM, but otherwise all our options remain the same.
-Red thirst will see a rework, to maybe granting rage after destroying a unit in the assault phase. Descent of angels will remain the same.
-Sang guard will remain the same, but go down to 30ppm.
-Sang priests will become slotless hqs. They may lose their bubble, and instead affect only their squad, but in that case will become cheaper.
-No entirely new units, and no access to unique SM units.
Edit: in addition to warlord trats, psy powers, and relics
jhe90 wrote: Some flying bat, coffin or such creation to match the space wolves.
Maybe a chariot pulled by somthing if your unlucky/
Don,t forget obilgetery add on that costs extra.
Nothing against you personally, but can we stop with the blood chariot jokes please? It's quite a dead horse at this point.
We're already tired of it and there haven't even been any solid rumours yet. What if it actually happens?
Anyway, "Glaives Encarmine" are axes and swords, mostly. I wouldn't be surprised if it could refer to just about any bladed weapon of a similar fashion, so maybe the name is more in reference to an original weapon that was an actual glaive. Then again, the Mechanicus have "plasma fusils" which are certainly not a type of musket, so they might just not care for correct terminology.
Another thing I'd like a reduction on is the cost of our vehicles:
Whirlwind paying such a hefty points tax to be fast is ridiculous.
A baal pred compared to a AM punisher is hugely overcosted.
Our dreads find it very difficult to get into combat - therefore everyone who takes a dread only goes for podded furiosos with frag.
All LRs in all dexes are overcosted - I don't see this being changed. I do however predict that they may take away the points deduction in taking raiders for Assault marines. Which would be a nerf for no reason as it is not like they are points efficient even with the 35pt saving.
Rhinos do nothing for our assault squads since they are not assault vehicles. Although OS on these makes them viable again.
th3maninblak wrote: If sang guard were 30 to 33 points per model and had relic blades, it would be hot to death.
The death masks are specific models worked into the sanguinary guard kit. There is little to no chance we'll lose them entirely.
Wolves had Wolf Tail Talismans included to, but that did not stop their removal.
I would like them to stay in some form, but I don't think they are necessary, especially if there is a price drop.
On the top of Sanguinary Guard costs though, assuming they don't change much, then they'll probably end up around 30pts each. You have to remember, they're basically PW Tactical Terminators, but trading a 5++ for a Jump Pack. Against AP3 or weaker, they're at least 2x as survivable as an Assault Marine, so they have to be appropriately costed or they'll be too good, or make Assault Marines feel useless. Giving them a 5++ just makes them too good, and makes non-TH/SS Termies completely useless.
I thought that the general consensus was the tactical termies are already nearly completely useless/heavily overcosted. Hence my reasoning for the stat bump and the 5++. I would definitely like to see at least a WS and I bump to 5, even if it means 33-35 instead of 30 ppm. I mean they are the boduguard tp the oldest CC chapter master in the imperium...
th3maninblak wrote: If sang guard were 30 to 33 points per model and had relic blades, it would be hot to death.
The death masks are specific models worked into the sanguinary guard kit. There is little to no chance we'll lose them entirely.
Wolves had Wolf Tail Talismans included to, but that did not stop their removal.
I would like them to stay in some form, but I don't think they are necessary, especially if there is a price drop.
On the top of Sanguinary Guard costs though, assuming they don't change much, then they'll probably end up around 30pts each. You have to remember, they're basically PW Tactical Terminators, but trading a 5++ for a Jump Pack. Against AP3 or weaker, they're at least 2x as survivable as an Assault Marine, so they have to be appropriately costed or they'll be too good, or make Assault Marines feel useless. Giving them a 5++ just makes them too good, and makes non-TH/SS Termies completely useless.
.
I thought that the general consensus was the tactical termies are already nearly completely useless/heavily overcosted. Hence my reasoning for the stat bump and the 5++. I would definitely like to see at least a WS and I bump to 5, even if it means 33-35 instead of 30 ppm. I mean they are the boduguard tp the oldest CC chapter master in the imperium...
I think that has come down to your local META and use of them. Look at the Grey Knights, they can pull off all Terminator Armies and win constantly.
Places where S10, AP2, Pie is prevalent Terminators have issues, but that is not everywhere. In my local META Terminators can easily dominate a game just because of their 2+ Save.
I think that it will come down to what they do with Sanguinary Units. [For Arguments sake lets assume the Glaives will just be Similar to Frost Swords]. Using Wolf Guard as a point of Measure:
>Sanguinary Jump Guard: Wolf Guard with a Frost Weapon and Jump Pack are 41 points.
>Sanguinary Terminator Guard: Wolf Guard Terminators with Frost Blades are 38 points.
So I am thinking now 35-40 ppm is where they both will sitting at, though I feel it should be around 30-35 ppm. Drop the price by 5 if they are just fancy Power Weapons.
Poly Ranger wrote: Another thing I'd like a reduction on is the cost of our vehicles:
Whirlwind paying such a hefty points tax to be fast is ridiculous.
A baal pred compared to a AM punisher is hugely overcosted.
Our dreads find it very difficult to get into combat - therefore everyone who takes a dread only goes for podded furiosos with frag.
All LRs in all dexes are overcosted - I don't see this being changed. I do however predict that they may take away the points deduction in taking raiders for Assault marines. Which would be a nerf for no reason as it is not like they are points efficient even with the 35pt saving.
Rhinos do nothing for our assault squads since they are not assault vehicles. Although OS on these makes them viable again.
I agree with basically all of this except for the part about baal preds and raiders. I dont honestly think anyones land raiders are overcosted, as they got a pretty significant boost this edition. And baal preds are pretty perfectly costed.
A bunch of you guys seem to believe current plastic kits will disappear. Why? GW has a penchant for removing characters who don't have a model, and even a few metal models or finecast that they don't want to update. I don't expect to see Dread variants disappear. I don't even really see any characters disappear, even though they're all FC. BA has all their characters. I suspect they'll lose very little in the coming culling. GW has plenty to answer for. But accusing them for things they haven't actually done is foolish.
Poly Ranger wrote: Another thing I'd like a reduction on is the cost of our vehicles:
Whirlwind paying such a hefty points tax to be fast is ridiculous.
A baal pred compared to a AM punisher is hugely overcosted.
Our dreads find it very difficult to get into combat - therefore everyone who takes a dread only goes for podded furiosos with frag.
All LRs in all dexes are overcosted - I don't see this being changed. I do however predict that they may take away the points deduction in taking raiders for Assault marines. Which would be a nerf for no reason as it is not like they are points efficient even with the 35pt saving.
Rhinos do nothing for our assault squads since they are not assault vehicles. Although OS on these makes them viable again.
I agree with basically all of this except for the part about baal preds and raiders. I dont honestly think anyones land raiders are overcosted, as they got a pretty significant boost this edition. And baal preds are pretty perfectly costed.
Thing is, I always felt baals were appropriatly costed too. However I have proxied punishers, and I own 5 anni barges, both of which make baals look overcosted.
A baal for 145pts gets 6 st5 and 4 tl st6 rending shots all at bs4, a punisher on the other hand gets 29 st5 shots at bs3 for 15pts more. And Av 14. Admittedly the baal is on a fast platform, but the much better armourof the punisher morr than makes up for this.
Its harder to compare with an anni barge, but the anni barge is a skimmer which doesn't mind jinking, scores on average only slightly less hits, has a higher strength weapon, and is a lot better at AA. For 55pts less.
Then there is the wave serpent for the same points cost.
When we compare the baal to anything else in our dex it comes out as arguably the second best choice after the furioso, but compare it to the best anti-personal vehicles of other dexes and it is overcosted in comparsion. As mainly BA players, i think we overlook this because it is still one of our best units.
With the new OS rules on LRs, I can see an argument for them being more worth their points now. However I still believe them to be ~30pts too much due to the lack of punch they offer for their points.
th3maninblak wrote: If sang guard were 30 to 33 points per model and had relic blades, it would be hot to death.
The death masks are specific models worked into the sanguinary guard kit. There is little to no chance we'll lose them entirely.
Wolves had Wolf Tail Talismans included to, but that did not stop their removal.
I would like them to stay in some form, but I don't think they are necessary, especially if there is a price drop.
On the top of Sanguinary Guard costs though, assuming they don't change much, then they'll probably end up around 30pts each. You have to remember, they're basically PW Tactical Terminators, but trading a 5++ for a Jump Pack. Against AP3 or weaker, they're at least 2x as survivable as an Assault Marine, so they have to be appropriately costed or they'll be too good, or make Assault Marines feel useless. Giving them a 5++ just makes them too good, and makes non-TH/SS Termies completely useless.
.
I thought that the general consensus was the tactical termies are already nearly completely useless/heavily overcosted. Hence my reasoning for the stat bump and the 5++. I would definitely like to see at least a WS and I bump to 5, even if it means 33-35 instead of 30 ppm. I mean they are the boduguard tp the oldest CC chapter master in the imperium...
I think that has come down to your local META and use of them. Look at the Grey Knights, they can pull off all Terminator Armies and win constantly.
th3maninblak wrote: If sang guard were 30 to 33 points per model and had relic blades, it would be hot to death.
The death masks are specific models worked into the sanguinary guard kit. There is little to no chance we'll lose them entirely.
Wolves had Wolf Tail Talismans included to, but that did not stop their removal.
I would like them to stay in some form, but I don't think they are necessary, especially if there is a price drop.
On the top of Sanguinary Guard costs though, assuming they don't change much, then they'll probably end up around 30pts each. You have to remember, they're basically PW Tactical Terminators, but trading a 5++ for a Jump Pack. Against AP3 or weaker, they're at least 2x as survivable as an Assault Marine, so they have to be appropriately costed or they'll be too good, or make Assault Marines feel useless. Giving them a 5++ just makes them too good, and makes non-TH/SS Termies completely useless.
.
I thought that the general consensus was the tactical termies are already nearly completely useless/heavily overcosted. Hence my reasoning for the stat bump and the 5++. I would definitely like to see at least a WS and I bump to 5, even if it means 33-35 instead of 30 ppm. I mean they are the boduguard tp the oldest CC chapter master in the imperium...
I think that has come down to your local META and use of them. Look at the Grey Knights, they can pull off all Terminator Armies and win constantly.
True, but they are still mostly T4, W1, 2+/5++ Models and have the same survivability as Tactical Terminators and don't have the 2+/3++ that other Imperials can pull off.
th3maninblak wrote: If sang guard were 30 to 33 points per model and had relic blades, it would be hot to death.
The death masks are specific models worked into the sanguinary guard kit. There is little to no chance we'll lose them entirely.
Wolves had Wolf Tail Talismans included to, but that did not stop their removal.
I would like them to stay in some form, but I don't think they are necessary, especially if there is a price drop.
On the top of Sanguinary Guard costs though, assuming they don't change much, then they'll probably end up around 30pts each. You have to remember, they're basically PW Tactical Terminators, but trading a 5++ for a Jump Pack. Against AP3 or weaker, they're at least 2x as survivable as an Assault Marine, so they have to be appropriately costed or they'll be too good, or make Assault Marines feel useless. Giving them a 5++ just makes them too good, and makes non-TH/SS Termies completely useless.
.
I thought that the general consensus was the tactical termies are already nearly completely useless/heavily overcosted. Hence my reasoning for the stat bump and the 5++. I would definitely like to see at least a WS and I bump to 5, even if it means 33-35 instead of 30 ppm. I mean they are the boduguard tp the oldest CC chapter master in the imperium...
I think that has come down to your local META and use of them. Look at the Grey Knights, they can pull off all Terminator Armies and win constantly.
True, but they are still mostly T4, W1, 2+/5++ Models and have the same survivability as Tactical Terminators and don't have the 2+/3++ that other Imperials can pull off.
It's not the similarities that's important, it's the differences. Force Weapons, 33 PPM, better Assault Cannons, Troops (!), Psykers. They're a fair bit less gakky than Tactical Terminators.
th3maninblak wrote: If sang guard were 30 to 33 points per model and had relic blades, it would be hot to death.
The death masks are specific models worked into the sanguinary guard kit. There is little to no chance we'll lose them entirely.
Wolves had Wolf Tail Talismans included to, but that did not stop their removal.
I would like them to stay in some form, but I don't think they are necessary, especially if there is a price drop.
On the top of Sanguinary Guard costs though, assuming they don't change much, then they'll probably end up around 30pts each. You have to remember, they're basically PW Tactical Terminators, but trading a 5++ for a Jump Pack. Against AP3 or weaker, they're at least 2x as survivable as an Assault Marine, so they have to be appropriately costed or they'll be too good, or make Assault Marines feel useless. Giving them a 5++ just makes them too good, and makes non-TH/SS Termies completely useless.
.
I thought that the general consensus was the tactical termies are already nearly completely useless/heavily overcosted. Hence my reasoning for the stat bump and the 5++. I would definitely like to see at least a WS and I bump to 5, even if it means 33-35 instead of 30 ppm. I mean they are the boduguard tp the oldest CC chapter master in the imperium...
I think that has come down to your local META and use of them. Look at the Grey Knights, they can pull off all Terminator Armies and win constantly.
True, but they are still mostly T4, W1, 2+/5++ Models and have the same survivability as Tactical Terminators and don't have the 2+/3++ that other Imperials can pull off.
It's not the similarities that's important, it's the differences. Force Weapons, 33 PPM, better Assault Cannons, Troops (!), Psykers. They're a fair bit less gakky than Tactical Terminators.
I was mostly replying to the point of Terminator Survivability not Firepower, witch is the normal complaint.
Getting back on track...
Sanguinary Terminators: If they follow the current Patter what I expect to see.
Wargear: Angelus Bolt Gun, Glaive, Terminator Armor.
Points: 33ppm
Options to take:
>Replace Glaive with Power Fist, Chain Fist, Thunder Hammer (?)
>Replace Angelus Bolt Gun with Combi-Weapon.
>Terminator Special Weapons
The Angelus Bolt-Gun [24", S4, AP4, Volley 2/4]: Boosting the Terminators, but leaving the Sanguinary Guard unchanged.
Glaive
>Sword: [S+1, AP3, Melee, Mastercraft, Two-Handed.]
>Axe: S+2, AP2, Melee, Mastercraft, Two-Handed, Unwieldy]
th3maninblak wrote: If sang guard were 30 to 33 points per model and had relic blades, it would be hot to death.
The death masks are specific models worked into the sanguinary guard kit. There is little to no chance we'll lose them entirely.
Wolves had Wolf Tail Talismans included to, but that did not stop their removal.
I would like them to stay in some form, but I don't think they are necessary, especially if there is a price drop.
On the top of Sanguinary Guard costs though, assuming they don't change much, then they'll probably end up around 30pts each. You have to remember, they're basically PW Tactical Terminators, but trading a 5++ for a Jump Pack. Against AP3 or weaker, they're at least 2x as survivable as an Assault Marine, so they have to be appropriately costed or they'll be too good, or make Assault Marines feel useless. Giving them a 5++ just makes them too good, and makes non-TH/SS Termies completely useless.
.
I thought that the general consensus was the tactical termies are already nearly completely useless/heavily overcosted. Hence my reasoning for the stat bump and the 5++. I would definitely like to see at least a WS and I bump to 5, even if it means 33-35 instead of 30 ppm. I mean they are the boduguard tp the oldest CC chapter master in the imperium...
I think that has come down to your local META and use of them. Look at the Grey Knights, they can pull off all Terminator Armies and win constantly.
True, but they are still mostly T4, W1, 2+/5++ Models and have the same survivability as Tactical Terminators and don't have the 2+/3++ that other Imperials can pull off.
It's not the similarities that's important, it's the differences. Force Weapons, 33 PPM, better Assault Cannons, Troops (!), Psykers. They're a fair bit less gakky than Tactical Terminators.
I was mostly replying to the point of Terminator Survivability not Firepower, witch is the normal complaint.
33 PPM vs. 40 PPM makes a difference there as well.
i would happily wait a solid 6-8 weeks for the BA release. I have my newly DE to work on, and my wallet is already screaming.
There will be a new flier (storm talon?), or another opened up from the regular c:sm codex. I would have thought the BA would get the assault flier like SW did, but i don't think they will do two of the same fliers.
BA already have unique dread variations, so that won't change. Maybe one will move to a special character (DC dread or librarian)
No more FOC swaps so Sanguinary guard will remain in elites and I believe the 0-1 DC units will be removed also, unless there is a formation released (supplement?)
I would hope at least one special character gets a re-sculpt into plastic, really any of them (although Seth's model is pretty cool)
I can see the codex specific detachment being similar to the rumored DE one, where you can choose 1-6 fast attack slots, with the new flier sliding in as a FA choice.
Those are my best guesses. Relics will be meh, formation will have some assault/deep strike shenanigans, special characters will be meh (which disappoints me the most) and the codex will be more balanced.
Don't expect top tier, as assault isnt really the name of the game currently, but hopefully something along the lines of SW wouldn't be bad
I wouldn't be too surprised to see Libby dreads move to HQ.
If we get a termie kit, I hope the the rules are a little more interesting than tac termies with access to combis and power weapons...Sure it offers nice tactical flexibility but seems a bit meh. If the models looked the part though that's the main thing.
I reckon we're gonna a big old codex assuming northing gets dropped.
Any one got any ideas/hopes/dreams for what our supplement might be? I play Angels Encarmine, so would love to see that as the supplement, but Flesh Tearers seems more likely.
The 7th edition supplements have been based on formations with new warlord traits, so I don't think we will be getting a flesh tearers or Angels encarmine supplement.
honestly, change will do the blood angels well. I know most of the "flavor" will be taken out, but most, if not all (don't have codex near me) of the entries have models. So, I wouldn't worry about units disappearing. Just a tone down of the unique rules in favor of ones in the standard rulebook.
Now, in terms of new units, I'm not sure if we will get much more than a flier and a few re-boxes or combo boxes. Except for Orks, which I'm not even positive they did (Flash glitz?) I'm pretty sure none of the new releases got any brand new troops sized kits. SW got the flier and the dread kit with the re-boxing for sky claws and long fangs and the bundles.
I would love a new sanguinary priest model. As they don't seem to vary much from a standard marine, and I pictured them all robed out and much more noble looking.
Mephiston, Dante, or Sanguinor as LOW and a re-scuplt - i couldn't guess which one it would be. Hell, they could remove the sanguinor for all i cared and have the other two be LOW. But as of right now, none of the newer codices got two LOWs, Bjorn is just a regular HQ despite popular belief that he's a LOW
I feel like the new force org chart for blood angels will do something to make our charge distances more reliable, like 6+d6 inches instead of 2d6. I feel like that would be pretty hot.
th3maninblak wrote: I feel like the new force org chart for blood angels will do something to make our charge distances more reliable, like 6+d6 inches instead of 2d6. I feel like that would be pretty hot.
Oh I really really really hope this happens. Its sooo disappointing when masters of assault flub a 4" charge. I mean we could always cop out and use bikes like everyone else, but who wants to have to do that when JPs are not only "our thing", but look much better as well.
JuniorRS13 wrote: Bjorn is just a regular HQ despite popular belief that he's a LOW
"Popular belief" might be a bit of an overstatement, as I have never encountered anyone who believes this.
Hmm could have sworn I read someone say it earlier in the thread. Anyways a lot of the people at my flgs had the assumption he was. Apparently it's not that popular of a thought.
All I can say is clinch your buttox and prepare for the worst. After looking over the initial reports of what has happened to the Dark Eldar. You might just find yourselves going WTF like the rest of us.
Jayden63 wrote: All I can say is clinch your buttox and prepare for the worst. After looking over the initial reports of what has happened to the Dark Eldar. You might just find yourselves going WTF like the rest of us.
Truer words have never been spoken.
The only thing I 100% expect out of the new Blood Angels codex is that I will be disappointed by it.
Jayden63 wrote: All I can say is clinch your buttox and prepare for the worst. After looking over the initial reports of what has happened to the Dark Eldar. You might just find yourselves going WTF like the rest of us.
Truer words have never been spoken.
The only thing I 100% expect out of the new Blood Angels codex is that I will be disappointed by it.
The only thing I'm fairly sure of is that my collection will grow, and grow cheaply, when the chicken littles declare the game to be dead, Blood Angels to be terrible/lifeless/boring/or whatever, and sell their armies for no good reason.
1-2 HQ 0-4 elite
1-6 troops
0-4 fast attack
0-1 heavy support
Ferocious Assault: all models with the jump infantry type roll 6+d6 inches for their charge range instead of 2d6. This is not subject to the reroll that using a jump pack in the assault phase would normally allow. Additionally, if a unit chooses to use their jump packs in the assault phase, they gain +1 initiative on the turn that they charge.
1-2 HQ 0-4 elite
1-6 troops
0-4 fast attack
0-1 heavy support
Ferocious Assault: all models with the jump infantry type roll 6+d6 inches for their charge range instead of 2d6. This is not subject to the reroll that using a jump pack in the assault phase would normally allow. Additionally, if a unit chooses to use their jump packs in the assault phase, they gain +1 initiative on the turn that they charge.
Jayden63 wrote: All I can say is clinch your buttox and prepare for the worst. After looking over the initial reports of what has happened to the Dark Eldar. You might just find yourselves going WTF like the rest of us.
Truer words have never been spoken.
The only thing I 100% expect out of the new Blood Angels codex is that I will be disappointed by it.
The only thing I'm fairly sure of is that my collection will grow, and grow cheaply, when the chicken littles declare the game to be dead, Blood Angels to be terrible/lifeless/boring/or whatever, and sell their armies for no good reason.
So not liking the changes to the army is not sufficient reason to quit the army. I didn't realize this game was a life long commitment. They should really put a warning on the box.
Well, to practice a bit of thread necromancy, both good news and disturbing news for the angels of death. Blood Angels were "accidentally" mentioned in the new Dark Eldar supplement, which lends credence to us being next.
That being said, several anonymous people are spouting off rumors about necrons being next, citing that the physical codex is no longer available. It is, btw, just a search error.
If necrons are indeed next, then it means that 3 codices have been updated TWICE before us. Which would make me all kinds of ludicrously angry.
Blood angels shouldn't complain. Look what happened to Space Wolves...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Their new snazzy tool is.... a gun that has a chance to kill low strength multi-wound models.... Also their chapter master was nerfed so hard that no one will take him again except in a completelu fluff list.
Enjoy your Blood angels not having a new crappy codex. Enjoy the one you have, before you have to start telling every person you play "Hey, I'm going to play with the old codex, cool?"
We dont have any special characters to lose. Everyone has models. All we are going to get is points adjustments, relics and warlord traits. If we arent next, we should all riot.
The BAFAQ is almost big enough to be it's own codex.
BA are considered to be low tier.
BA have no Grav weapons, Centurions, or any 6E SM vehicles
Their new snazzy tool is.... a gun that has a chance to kill low strength multi-wound models....
You got a Wolverine Dreadnaught, Santas Sleigh, and a flying Landraider
Also their chapter master was nerfed so hard that no one will take him again except in a completelu fluff list.
I've yet to see someone field Commander Dante, Lord of Blood Angels, and I own 2 of the model
Enjoy your Blood angels not having a new crappy codex. Enjoy the one you have, before you have to start telling every person you play "Hey, I'm going to play with the old codex, cool?"
I'm sure Warlord traits, relics, and the point decreases alone will make it worth it. There isn't anything, other than possibley the Death Company, worth nerfing,so it's all good.
Also, I'm looking forward to FA Drop Pods and the Blood Angles formation that will probably let us field nothing but death company
The BAFAQ is almost big enough to be it's own codex.
BA are considered to be low tier.
BA have no Grav weapons, Centurions, or any 6E SM vehicles
Their new snazzy tool is.... a gun that has a chance to kill low strength multi-wound models....
You got a Wolverine Dreadnaught, Santas Sleigh, and a flying Landraider
Also their chapter master was nerfed so hard that no one will take him again except in a completelu fluff list.
I've yet to see someone field Commander Dante, Lord of Blood Angels, and I own 2 of the model
Enjoy your Blood angels not having a new crappy codex. Enjoy the one you have, before you have to start telling every person you play "Hey, I'm going to play with the old codex, cool?"
I'm sure Warlord traits, relics, and the point decreases alone will make it worth it. There isn't anything, other than possibley the Death Company, worth nerfing,so it's all good.
Also, I'm looking forward to FA Drop Pods and the Blood Angles formation that will probably let us field nothing but death company
Thats what im saying. Anything is better than what we have now.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I think I'm mainly just bitter. I already had 8 different armies before they started with the hardcover codexes. I'm up to 11 now. The problem is, all of my armies were decent/fun/passable before their new codexes. Now 10 of mine have modern codexes, and only Necrons are left... The only one of my armies that got better (With the models I owned BEFORE their new codex was released) was Grey Knights. I wanted to start blood angels for a number 12. But I think I'll wait a bit.
The BAFAQ is almost big enough to be it's own codex.
BA are considered to be low tier.
BA have no Grav weapons, Centurions, or any 6E SM vehicles
Their new snazzy tool is.... a gun that has a chance to kill low strength multi-wound models....
You got a Wolverine Dreadnaught, Santas Sleigh, and a flying Landraider
Also their chapter master was nerfed so hard that no one will take him again except in a completelu fluff list.
I've yet to see someone field Commander Dante, Lord of Blood Angels, and I own 2 of the model
Enjoy your Blood angels not having a new crappy codex. Enjoy the one you have, before you have to start telling every person you play "Hey, I'm going to play with the old codex, cool?"
I'm sure Warlord traits, relics, and the point decreases alone will make it worth it. There isn't anything, other than possibley the Death Company, worth nerfing,so it's all good.
Also, I'm looking forward to FA Drop Pods and the Blood Angles formation that will probably let us field nothing but death company
Personally I really like the new SW Codex overall, and that seems to be the general consensus around here (for what it's worth).
th3maninblak wrote: We dont have any special characters to lose. Everyone has models. All we are going to get is points adjustments, relics and warlord traits. If we arent next, we should all riot.
The IG lost special characters that had models, so nothing is for certain other than a bland codex and required supplement to add the flavor back in.
th3maninblak wrote: We dont have any special characters to lose. Everyone has models. All we are going to get is points adjustments, relics and warlord traits. If we arent next, we should all riot.
Vect had a model and a boat to go with it. I dont see him anywhere around either. Your SCs are not safe.
th3maninblak wrote: We dont have any special characters to lose. Everyone has models. All we are going to get is points adjustments, relics and warlord traits. If we arent next, we should all riot.
Vect had a model and a boat to go with it. I dont see him anywhere around either. Your SCs are not safe.
Doubtful, unless its tycho or something. Though BoLS thinks necrons are next. Time to riot.
The BAFAQ is almost big enough to be it's own codex.
Same with Necrons. It's the result of being 2 editions behind. Expect a lot of "unique" wargear to go away like Space Wolves, and special rules to be turned into USRs like Dark Eldar.
BA have no Grav weapons, Centurions, or any 6E SM vehicles
And they probably won't be getting any of that. BA are their own unique book, so asking for the special SM toys as well is just being greedy. BA are unique, not SM +1.
What I expect for BA:
Terminator kit with new unit- Sanguinary Wardens- Sang guard in TDA instead of jump packs.
Redone SM Assault Squad- 5 guys for $40, updated like vanguard vets, with less thunder hammers and lightning claws and more power weapons, flamers, and melta guns.
Clampack Sanguinary Priest.
Rules:
Red Thirst and Descent of Angels become the Chapter tactics- Red thirst becomes something like "On a roll of 10 or more for charge distance, the unit gains the furious charge rule"
Stormraven to match Codex SM Death Company Dred becomes an upgrade for a dread, not a troop choice.
Death Company units get cheaper upgrades and weapons, but smaller max size. Formation for DC Tycho or Lemartes and 2-3 units of DC.
Mepheston and/or Sanguinor moves to Lord of War
BA specific psychic powers gone.
Sang Priests no longer bubble abilities, but buff unit they are attached to. Become a "May buy 1 per other HQ you take" type slot.
Death Mask grants Fear USR. Dante's mask has fear and -2 Ld for units nearby.
Seth loses Whirlwind of Gore for Rampage.
Blood fist becomes power fist.
Blood Talon becomes either rampage or shred.
Magna-grapple simplified.
Unit prices for basic units brought into line with Codex Marine prices.
In terms of models, here are some of the things I would expect or at least like to see.
Descent of Angels - this would be an Assault Squad with either one of the sprues switched out or a new sprue added in with some of the Blood Angels special weapons like the Infernus Pistol or Hand Flamer. This way a BA player can make a DoA force easier.
A plastic Chaplain model. Heck, they could even just release the Reclusiam Command Squad Chaplain in a plastic blister.
For the most part, BA aren't so much about all new units (besides the Death Company, which already exist).
Do people think we'll lose either the Reclusiarch or Chaplain? I'm pretty sure the SM codex only has one of them, unless that was always a BA exclusive feature?
The theory has been bouncing around Dakka since Ork and SW codexes dropped that the dedicated transport section is going away. All the vehicles have an apporiate slot in force org.
Those that could choose them before as dedicated transports can still do so, without them occupying a force org slot.
It's expected future codexes, like Blood Angels, will follow this pattern
As much as I want the dex to be an improvement, I suspect we'll suffer some loses, which I suppose are to be expected.
I wouldn't be surprised if DOA disappears and/or becomes a Dante only thing. Death Company will probably be something stupid like up to 5 models unless you take Lemartes or Astorath. Wouldn't be surprised if deepstriking Land Raiders go away too.
On the other side, we'll probably get our transports set in FA or Heavy Support (Raiders only) and dedicated transports negating their force organization requirements (someone else mentioned this earlier). Might see an army wide change to assaulting buffs, not sure what though. Will probably see points changes for a lot of our stuff; librarian, HQ's across the board, might see an increase in transports because of those turbo engines.
I'm waiting to see if we get new kits too, like some flying BlooD Dreadnought of planet Bloodland using Blood cannons, and Blood claws on Bloodwings. Also, a single troop choice called Blood Desciples that use Blood Bolters.
