Didn't see this posted already...

Both spikeybits.com and the retail store, FTW Games, located in Richmond, VA, have closed up shop as of 11pm EST last night.

I know a lot of people loves spikeybits online store, including their crazy Christmas bundle deals.

Just thought I'd post a heads up!

Doug

EDIT:

New financiers and partners have stepped in and bought the remaining store stock and leased the location before any banks became involved. Their lawyers were able to negotiate from the final sale price the inclusion of customers' store credit and preorders. The new store is now called Battlegrounds. The new owners have tons of experience in the hobby including running currently successful game shops. They are evaluating the stock previously carried and are very amicable to requests and considerations for new product lines or expanding existing ones.

Additionally, spikeybits.com (which relied upon the stock of FTW Games) branding has been sold to Dicehead Games.

I just heard this. I live a bit away, but my group and I head that way a couple times a year for tournaments Sad to see them go.

Have they said what they are going to do with their inventory?

wonder if it's a consequence of the bitz business getting a lot more tricky or something else

What details are available on this? Their website says closed for maintenance, but they just listed a sale for Infinity yesterday. Seems odd to post a sales offer and close shop roughly 12 hours later.

http://www.spikeybits.com/servlet/StoreFront

Link provided for hopefully news updates on their site.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/617104.page

The owner posted a 'so long and thanks message' on the FTW forum

http://www.ftwgames.net/2014/09/thanks-for-memories.html

suggestions in comments below (from somebody claiming a strong source) is all store credit is toast, and the remaining stock is probably going to go up in some sort of auction

On the facebook page the owner confirmed that all assets will most likely be auctioned off by liquidators (he didnt answer the question on store credit). Seems like a few people are upset as they were taking preorders and money up until last night when they knew they wouldn't be able to fulfil the orders (they claim that they couldn't have a closing down sale or advise customers as the tenancy contract they have lets the building owners store all assets if they do, all of which sounds very unusual).

Aeneades wrote:
Seems like a few people are upset as they were taking preorders and money up until last night when they knew they wouldn't be able to fulfil the orders.

I don't know much about U.S. laws, but around here that's the sort of thing that could end up in a prison sentence.

Thud wrote:

Aeneades wrote:
Seems like a few people are upset as they were taking preorders and money up until last night when they knew they wouldn't be able to fulfil the orders.

I don't know much about U.S. laws, but around here that's the sort of thing that could end up in a prison sentence.

Aeneades wrote:On the facebook page the owner confirmed that all assets will most likely be auctioned off by liquidators (he didnt answer the question on store credit). Seems like a few people are upset as they were taking preorders and money up until last night when they knew they wouldn't be able to fulfil the orders (they claim that they couldn't have a closing down sale or advise customers as the tenancy contract they have lets the building owners store all assets if they do, all of which sounds very unusual).

My first game store was seized by the government for lack of payment on taxes due to being way behind on bills. This is possibly what has happened(no proof though) because no notice can be given until it is too late. What the owner has said, is very in line with a seizure by the government and for those that have pre-ordered items, you won't see any of it.

It could be they owed the landlord money and the contract allowed them to recover debts from stock

If they started a major sale the landlord would know things were sticky and would have seized the (some/all) the stock leaving them with nothing to sell

so from a business sense until the finally knew they were finished (somebody probably called in a debt they could not pay) it would make sense to keep trading as long as they were making more than their operating expenses as they might have been able to fix things.

Not ideal but a situation a load of small businesses find themselves in at one time or another.. given enough time some trade out of trouble, some fail completely and some stagger along in an almost dead situation until a creditor gets fed up and call in the debt

I got reimbursed this morning for items I had ordered last week. I am sure everyone else who ordered/preordered did as well

This sucks!

Well, this blows beyond belief. I loved that store, played there often and only bought through them. On top of that I was still waiting for my Operation Icestorm which I pre ordered. I guess I wont be seeing that. The people that worked there were awesome and it's sad they are out of jobs.

 Musashi363 wrote:
Well, this blows beyond belief. I loved that store, played there often and only bought through them. On top of that I was still waiting for my Operation Icestorm which I pre ordered. I guess I wont be seeing that. The people that worked there were awesome and it's sad they are out of jobs.

Yup, had OIS pre-ordered and on the way. This SUCKS. I was going to go there this Friday for a game of Warmachine. :(

Taking pre-orders up until your store is shuttered is pretty low brow. Someone there knew the hammer was about to drop. They should at least have stopped taking people's money given they wouldn't be able to fulfill that debt.

One of my relatives works for one of the other two remaining FLGS in town - the current scuttlebut is that Rob Baer, the owner, cleaned out the store's stock the night before and fled town. This is not the first store he's opened and run into the ground. He had a tendency to be very abrasive (including to me on several occasions, such as mocking me for playing historicals and not playing "elite" 40k, guffaw)

That guy always struck me as a egotistical [MOD EDIT - Language. - Alpharius]

I was there yesterday and everything looked in place. I peeked through the windows. Some of the lights where on. I looked like everything was in place.

i may be able to shed some light on what happened. I have been a close friend of Rob's for years and have been informed through others as to what happened.

For starters, this is now a bankruptcy issue. Rob has sought for bankruptcy protection.

The issues stem from the lease that Rob had. It was a beast of a lease with something like 30 pages. There were several clauses in the lease that outlined sales figures, employee numbers, and stock levels. Basically if he could not maintain something like 4k a month in sales, a certain number of employees and a certain stock level, he would be found in violation of his lease.

Since GW stopped the bits business, Spikey Bits and by an extension, FTW Games has been losing money. It has come to the point were the amount of money lost due to this and the declining sales have forced this. In addition, FTW games did there best to keep the 10 employees that worked the bits side despite no longer having the business.

Some people have mentioned that not giving an indication of things to come and still taking preorders up until the last minute was a shady move. They do not understand that this would also have been in violation of his lease. By not conducting business as normal or having a fire sale would have resulted in the land lord being able to seize all stock immediately.

What is happening now is all legal bankruptcy proceedings. The inventory will be auctioned to pay off debts.

As far as preorders and regular orders are concerned, if they were through the online store, they either have already been or will be refunded. Sadly, if it is through the brick and mortar store, there will be no refund. Those are now part of the bankruptcy proceedings. In a few weeks, anyone who made an order that was not fulfilled can look to add themselves to the list of debtors. Also, store credit is pretty much lost. It is valued at 1/100 of a cent per dollar.

Let me also express my sympathy to Rob and everyone who lost there jobs. This has caused Rob a lot of stress and other complications, and now several people are out of their livelihoods.

Like I said, I do know some about what is going on, and will answer any questions that I can and do not conflict with the bankruptcy.

Even as I was one of the 4 primary employees directly under the owner of the LLC that oversaw both FTW Games and Spikey Bits, I didn't know this was happening until I showed up for work this week. Needless to say, I'm not happy.

I shall be sad to see the storefront and to a lesser extent the online business end. It was a great store that every FLGS aspires to be. 12 Full sized 6x4 tables, enough seating for over 150 CCG players, a separate paint bar with personal lights and seating for 8, racks and racks of gaming and hobby supplies, all the major and minor games barring only 2 that I can think of.

Above all else, it was a clean and welcoming environment to play all the games in. The store lasted 4 and a half years and it was great to be a part of it.

Just curious as I have no idea about leases on shops but why would the terms of a lease include stuff like that ? - I mean a landlord wants his/her rent ....what does he/she care about sales figures/number of employees/stock levels ?

Breotan wrote:Taking pre-orders up until your store is shuttered is pretty low brow. Someone there knew the hammer was about to drop. They should at least have stopped taking people's money given they wouldn't be able to fulfill that debt.

judgedoug wrote:One of my relatives works for one of the other two remaining FLGS in town - the current scuttlebut is that Rob Baer, the owner, cleaned out the store's stock the night before and fled town. This is not the first store he's opened and run into the ground. He had a tendency to be very abrasive (including to me on several occasions, such as mocking me for playing historicals and not playing "elite" 40k, guffaw)

UltraPrime wrote:That guy always struck me as a egotistical.

Why don't some of you keep comments like these to yourselves? I know everyone feels like they have to add their two-cents on the Internet, but this was someone's livelihood. Instead of kicking someone when they're down, gloat quietly to yourself, and maybe pray that something similar doesn't happen to you and your family today.

Curious if Rob had signed any leases like this before, or had an attorney look over the lease before signing it.

Just screams insane to me.

 keas66 wrote:
Just curious as I have no idea about leases on shops but why would the terms of a lease include stuff like that ? - I mean a landlord wants his/her rent ....what does he/she care about sales figures/number of employees/stock levels ?

It depends on where the shop is. I know a lot of malls require a certain minimum number of employees be in the store during business hours. Not sure of the other stuff though.

 the_Armyman wrote:

Why don't some of you keep comments like these to yourselves?

They can't. There are a handful of spiteful people in the area that hate the owner out of their own ignorance. While he's a decent fellow, everyone has their bad days. Their hate is more than likely related to a small group in the area and the non-store/business drama from well before the store opened.

I've oredered from Spiky Bits before and always had a positive experience so it's a shame the store is gone. My hobby time and budget isn't what it used to be, although my pile of unpainted minis seems as tall as ever, so I haven't made any purchases from them in a while. I've always thought that a FLGS was a tough business plan to work, being the middle man is never easy and it's difficult to monetize the amenities that make a FLGS great, gaming tables, painting areas etc.

 keas66 wrote:
Just curious as I have no idea about leases on shops but why would the terms of a lease include stuff like that ? - I mean a landlord wants his/her rent ....what does he/she care about sales figures/number of employees/stock levels ?

I'm not going to make assumptions regarding contracts I haven't seen but since I'm a real estate professional and the lease has come up in this thread I wanted to shed a little general light on the subject. Including sales figures in a lease is a standard practice and necessary when dealing with breakpoint rent. There is the base rent, which is the set payment that is typically paid on a monthly basis, and there is breakpoint rent which is determined by setting a breakpoint, usually on annual sales, and when the tenant's sales exceed that breakpoint they pay a percentage to the landlord. For example if a tenant had a $1 million breakpoint and had $1.5 million in annual sales they'd pay $25k in additional breakpoint rent.

Other operational procedures are also included in standard leases like hours of operation. Most retail centers will insist on tenants being open whenever the center is open, having customers arrive at your mall and finding out the store they want to shop at is closed is bad for everyone. There are companies that negotiate exceptions to that like GW, whose stores are open on weekends but closed during the week and there's other businesses here in the south that insist on being closed on Sundays.

I've seen leases include dress codes for employees and marketing/advertising restrictions which isn't unusual but I personally have never seen one that deals with stock levels and number of employees. A typical lease is going to require tenants to not commit violations of local codes like the occupancy level determined by the firecode but in my experience landlords don't want to get too involved with the minutiae of running a tenant's business.

The bottom line is that every lease can be different because owners/landlords are people too and you can get some weird ones that want things their way. Obviously Rob thought the lease was good enough to sign it and it's unfortunate that it didn't work out. These situations remind me of a Steve McQueen quote from my favorite samurai movie:

Calvera: What I don't understand is why a man like you took the job in the first place, hmm? Why, huh?

Chris: I wonder myself.

Calvera: No, come on, come on, tell me why.

Vin: It's like a fellow I once knew in El Paso. One day, he just took all his clothes off and jumped in a mess of cactus. I asked him that same question, "Why?"

Calvera: And?

Vin: He said, "It seemed to be a good idea at the time."

 the_Armyman wrote:

Breotan wrote:Taking pre-orders up until your store is shuttered is pretty low brow. Someone there knew the hammer was about to drop. They should at least have stopped taking people's money given they wouldn't be able to fulfill that debt.

judgedoug wrote:One of my relatives works for one of the other two remaining FLGS in town - the current scuttlebut is that Rob Baer, the owner, cleaned out the store's stock the night before and fled town. This is not the first store he's opened and run into the ground. He had a tendency to be very abrasive (including to me on several occasions, such as mocking me for playing historicals and not playing "elite" 40k, guffaw)

UltraPrime wrote:That guy always struck me as a egotistical.

Why don't some of you keep comments like these to yourselves? I know everyone feels like they have to add their two-cents on the Internet, but this was someone's livelihood. Instead of kicking someone when they're down, gloat quietly to yourself, and maybe pray that something similar doesn't happen to you and your family today.

Because Dakka community is often preyed upon by frauds and cheats... and guess what? some of this information like past behavior, business track record and customer interactions are valid experiences for people to have when deciding what to do if they are personally impacted or in regards to future interactions with a company or person in the community. Bad stuff happens sometimes... but so does other stuff. I think it is valid for people who have direct involvement to share experiences.

And that lease sounds insane. As long as the rent is paid and the actions of the space are lawful and not harming other tenants who share the facilities... why would it matter how the company is run? Very odd indeed. I have literally never heard of a lease begin that invasive.

I am not going to comment on anything with the store, however being a business owner myself, the lease seems a little odd to me. But I live in a different state and maybe practices like that are more common in Virginia. Here I have never heard of any lease like that. Cheers

nkelsch wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:

Breotan wrote:Taking pre-orders up until your store is shuttered is pretty low brow. Someone there knew the hammer was about to drop. They should at least have stopped taking people's money given they wouldn't be able to fulfill that debt.

judgedoug wrote:One of my relatives works for one of the other two remaining FLGS in town - the current scuttlebut is that Rob Baer, the owner, cleaned out the store's stock the night before and fled town. This is not the first store he's opened and run into the ground. He had a tendency to be very abrasive (including to me on several occasions, such as mocking me for playing historicals and not playing "elite" 40k, guffaw)

UltraPrime wrote:That guy always struck me as a egotistical.

Why don't some of you keep comments like these to yourselves? I know everyone feels like they have to add their two-cents on the Internet, but this was someone's livelihood. Instead of kicking someone when they're down, gloat quietly to yourself, and maybe pray that something similar doesn't happen to you and your family today.

Because Dakka community is often preyed upon by frauds and cheats... and guess what? some of this information like past behavior, business track record and customer interactions are valid experiences for people to have when deciding what to do if they are personally impacted or in regards to future interactions with a company or person in the community. Bad stuff happens sometimes... but so does other stuff. I think it is valid for people who have direct involvement to share experiences.

And that lease sounds insane. As long as the rent is paid and the actions of the space are lawful and not harming other tenants who share the facilities... why would it matter how the company is run? Very odd indeed. I have literally never heard of a lease begin that invasive.

And your point would be a fair one if any of the 3 quotes offered any meaningful insight besides hearsay and trash talking. But since they are just immature spiteful and gossipy your point doesn't apply.

Chancetragedy wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:

Breotan wrote:Taking pre-orders up until your store is shuttered is pretty low brow. Someone there knew the hammer was about to drop. They should at least have stopped taking people's money given they wouldn't be able to fulfill that debt.

judgedoug wrote:One of my relatives works for one of the other two remaining FLGS in town - the current scuttlebut is that Rob Baer, the owner, cleaned out the store's stock the night before and fled town. This is not the first store he's opened and run into the ground. He had a tendency to be very abrasive (including to me on several occasions, such as mocking me for playing historicals and not playing "elite" 40k, guffaw)

UltraPrime wrote:That guy always struck me as a egotistical.

Why don't some of you keep comments like these to yourselves? I know everyone feels like they have to add their two-cents on the Internet, but this was someone's livelihood. Instead of kicking someone when they're down, gloat quietly to yourself, and maybe pray that something similar doesn't happen to you and your family today.

Because Dakka community is often preyed upon by frauds and cheats... and guess what? some of this information like past behavior, business track record and customer interactions are valid experiences for people to have when deciding what to do if they are personally impacted or in regards to future interactions with a company or person in the community. Bad stuff happens sometimes... but so does other stuff. I think it is valid for people who have direct involvement to share experiences.

And that lease sounds insane. As long as the rent is paid and the actions of the space are lawful and not harming other tenants who share the facilities... why would it matter how the company is run? Very odd indeed. I have literally never heard of a lease begin that invasive.

And your point would be a fair one if any of the 3 quotes offered any meaningful insight besides hearsay and trash talking. But since they are just immature spiteful and gossipy your point doesn't apply.

I think people who are valid customers and have direct interactions with the person in question are valid observations... Maybe all of the discussions of the multiple frauds Dakka exposes is trash talking too? maybe anyone who does a user transaction report in the swap shop is trash talking?

Discussing pre-orders ethics, people who are employed or customers and interactions with the owner seem valid to report.

Your 'Woe be to poor business owner, his family and livelihood' what about the poor customers whoa re out real money due to no fault of their on except trusting a company to not screw or cheat them? It is best for everything to be brought to the surface so those who can get their money back can and in the future those people can see a history and make decisions if to trust that person again. Dakka has a great history of documenting such actions for posterity and never forgetting, so I would like to see that continue opposed to have things shouted down and covered up by people like yourself.

Always sad to hear about a gaming store going out of business.

 Darkness wrote:


Since GW stopped the bits business, Spikey Bits and by an extension, FTW Games has been losing money.

Hasn't GW not been selling bits for 5+ years (at least) or is that referring to some other GW-shop interaction tomfoolery/shenanigans?

 Pacific wrote:
Always sad to hear about a gaming store going out of business.

 Darkness wrote:


Since GW stopped the bits business, Spikey Bits and by an extension, FTW Games has been losing money.

Hasn't GW not been selling bits for 5+ years (at least) or is that referring to some other GW-shop interaction tomfoolery/shenanigans?

Basically FLGS owners were buying boxes at their discount rate and breaking open boxes which were meant for retail for bitz. GW made that not allowed by trade partners. They also said if we find you are selling discount to a bitz dealer, your account will be shut off. Making the only LEGAL bitz dealings was to buy a product at full MSRP from GW and bitting it up. Making the whole mess unprofitable.

So that is what people call 'stopping the bitz business' was when those changes to the TOS happened.

At the time, Spikey Bits was effectively the largest US bits seller. One could surmise that the actions taken by GW were directly aimed at Spikey Bits.

Which of course never made sense. GW never really sold bits, Spikey Bits bought GW product to turn into bits, GW sales were up which is good for investors.

 juraigamer wrote:
At the time, Spikey Bits was effectively the largest US bits seller. One could surmise that the actions taken by GW were directly aimed at Spikey Bits.

Which of course never made sense. GW never really sold bits, Spikey Bits bought GW product to turn into bits, GW sales were up which is good for investors.

That's because in GW's blind rush to make as much money as possible, they often screw themselves over and end up losing money and business.

The lease terms - while onerous, are not uncommon for newer construction strip malls. They do that so that they can ensure the foot traffic stays up and they are not leasing out to companies that will devalue the property to the left and right of them. They also get into types of displays, signage, windows, hours of operation and a whole host of other issues that - seem ridiculous until you look at why those clauses are written into the lease.

I myself wouldn't consider signing it for a game store (too volatile of an operation) but depending on the local market - it might have been the only facility that fit their needs as a business.

Regarding "taking money" till the last minute... Quite common to be honest. More often than not - the difference between bankruptcy and insolvency for a small business is the difference between a good day of sales on Monday and a bad day of sales on Friday. If the sales had come in strong over the weekend - it might have allowed them to have the capital to keep the business open. If they didn't...that would mean bankruptcy. You roll the dice, and hope you win.

That may or may not apply to Spikey Bits/FTW (never bought from them - have no knowledge of the owners) - but simply trying to keep the business running by maintaining the website doesn't immediately mean they were looking to fleece anyone.

nkelsch wrote:

I think people who are valid customers and have direct interactions with the person in question are valid observations... Maybe all of the discussions of the multiple frauds Dakka exposes is trash talking too? maybe anyone who does a user transaction report in the swap shop is trash talking?

I quoted 3 people. One person simply called him an expletive. One person heard "scuttlebutt" that he ran off with the till the night of the lockdown. I don't have problems with someone mentioning a bad experience with a business or individual in the appropriate thread, but this isn't really the place for that.

Your 'Woe be to poor business owner, his family and livelihood' what about the poor customers whoa re out real money due to no fault of their on except trusting a company to not screw or cheat them? It is best for everything to be brought to the surface so those who can get their money back can and in the future those people can see a history and make decisions if to trust that person again. Dakka has a great history of documenting such actions for posterity and never forgetting, so I would like to see that continue opposed to have things shouted down and covered up by people like yourself.

Shouted down and covered up? You are aware there are other reasons beyond a store owner's control that would make it impossible for him to offer refunds? There are even reasons why he might be planning events and taking pre-orders. The IRS can show up and put a lock on your door in the middle of a business day. A leasing company can do what they wish with their property within the confines of your contract. Neither of these events come with a conveniently scheduled date and time. Neither of these have to do with cheating or defrauding the customer.

All I asked was for some civility.

Personally I've had nothing but good experiences with FTW and Rob. He seemed like a great guy like the rest of his staff. It sucks that I got screwed with my pre order (and the exclusive mini that came with it) but the store closing and great people losing their jobs sucks way worse. Thanks for making the last four years rock FTW.

 the_Armyman wrote:


Shouted down and covered up? You are aware there are other reasons beyond a store owner's control that would make it impossible for him to offer refunds? There are even reasons why he might be planning events and taking pre-orders. The IRS can show up and put a lock on your door in the middle of a business day. A leasing company can do what they wish with their property within the confines of your contract. Neither of these events come with a conveniently scheduled date and time. Neither of these have to do with cheating or defrauding the customer.

All I asked was for some civility.

Well it is never 'impossible'. If he is incorporated, his personal finances would be untouched and if he so chose he could go into personal debt to make things right with customers. So I would hardly call it impossible, simply 'I am not required to by law'. I have seen many small businesses fail online despite best intentions but leaving customers without money is universally going to be bad. You can call it whatever you want, but giving a business money and having that money lost and never getting the money or product is going to be seen by a vast majority of people as being cheated regardless of circumstances.

I hope there is transparency moving forward so if there was any ill dealings which lead up to this they are exposed and give people recourse to reclaim their money. Transparency is good for all involved even if it exposes ugly things.

 Musashi363 wrote:
Personally I've had nothing but good experiences with FTW and Rob. He seemed like a great guy like the rest of his staff. It sucks that I got screwed with my pre order (and the exclusive mini that came with it) but the store closing and great people losing their jobs sucks way worse. Thanks for making the last four years rock FTW.

That's pretty much how I feel about it. I don't believe there was any shady wrong doing by Rob at all. It was hands down the best FLGS I've ever seen.

It's a shame to see FTW/Spikey close. If it wasn't for Rob and his original foray into bits with Battle Wagon Bits, I would not be the modeler I am. And if it wasn't for Rob's friendship and Spikey Bits, I would not have the modeling commission business I have now that is my sole source of income and allows me to live pretty decent.

Because of this, it greatly saddens me to see Rob and his employees out a job. I feel for his customers too, as I was one, and having to shop elsewhere will now cut into my profits.

nkelsch wrote:
You can call it whatever you want, but giving a business money and having that money lost and never getting the money or product is going to be seen by a vast majority of people as being cheated regardless of circumstances.

If you paid with a credit card - call your company and have them do the charge back. Tell them the business went into bankruptcy (they handle those a bit differently).

Same goes for PayPal (again - they have ways to handle that...).

If you paid with debit card...it depends. Technically you have the right to do a charge back for an EFT (all debit card activities) under CFR 12 Regulation E. However, many banks are a PITA to deal with or have odd hoops to jump through. If you have enough money out there to justify it - you certainly can...but you may have a liability on your part of $50 depending on your bank and how they decide to proceed.

 Sean_OBrien wrote:
The lease terms - while onerous, are not uncommon for newer construction strip malls. They do that so that they can ensure the foot traffic stays up and they are not leasing out to companies that will devalue the property to the left and right of them. They also get into types of displays, signage, windows, hours of operation and a whole host of other issues that - seem ridiculous until you look at why those clauses are written into the lease.

I myself wouldn't consider signing it for a game store (too volatile of an operation) but depending on the local market - it might have been the only facility that fit their needs as a business.

Regarding "taking money" till the last minute... Quite common to be honest. More often than not - the difference between bankruptcy and insolvency for a small business is the difference between a good day of sales on Monday and a bad day of sales on Friday. If the sales had come in strong over the weekend - it might have allowed them to have the capital to keep the business open. If they didn't...that would mean bankruptcy. You roll the dice, and hope you win.

That may or may not apply to Spikey Bits/FTW (never bought from them - have no knowledge of the owners) - but simply trying to keep the business running by maintaining the website doesn't immediately mean they were looking to fleece anyone.

Or even older malls that have been purchased by a certain corporation that owns a very large number of malls... (I believe that they are #1 in the business)

Or, that they used to own at least... They took over ownership of the Maine Mall, kicked out a lot of the older (mostly local) stores, then waited with 'bated breath for the chic big name stores to move into the now vacant spaces.

And waited.

And waited.

And waited.

And sold out as the mall approached bankruptcy.... It seems that the traffic just wasn't sufficient for the stores that the company wanted to take over the spaces.

The Maine Mall still hasn't recovered. (The economy isn't exactly helping....)

The Auld Grump - one of the stores forced to move out was a game store... surprised?

I think the issue is that there are several people who sold large collections of items/MTG cards to the store and were given credit as payment (for the record if I got any store credit from them, I tried to use it immediately). This was happening as of Sunday before it closed. If the store was hurting for income, doesn't it make sense to reduce costs by not buying more merchandise? That is what struck many people as odd/inappropriate. Another concern was the fact that all the information given was 1. A so long post by Rob and 2. A post of the FB page not made by Rob. I would think it would be better to get a response from Rob instead of his sticking his head in the sand. If he went bankrupt, a good way to keep good rapport with people would be to let them know what was happening (and if there is to be an auction, to ensure more people would show up).

This is a very sad situation. I feel for everyone who has lost money on account of this.

From the sound of things, it seems that GWs policies were directly involved in the failure of the business. Another win for GW. Selling bits was not harming GWs business. If a person went to a bits seller to purchase whole models they would end up paying more than retail. Thus, their customers most likely already purchased GW product and were getting extra bits to customize their models. (At GWs current prices I would not think that customers would buy a whole extra kit just for parts.) Fortunately, I am no longer a GW customer, so I am somewhat insulated from their nonsense. However, it is sad to see their policies destroy other business and gaming communities.

To be fair to GW if a bitz seller broke up a kit and sold for example 20 separate items if only 2 of those buyers HAD to have the bit and would have bought a kit to get it they would have lost an extra sale (and more if more of the bitz buyers were in a similar position)

I think it's not unreasonable given the number of bitz a single kit can provide that in at least some of the cases this would have happened

(not to say that the bitz sellers did not provide a much valued service that many of us including me have used, but possibly not as harmless a one as you might first think)

Rob is a stand up guy, he's in a rough spo here

The majority of people ITT and the other thread that are harping on him never actually had IRL dealings with him

 vitki wrote:

 keas66 wrote:
Just curious as I have no idea about leases on shops but why would the terms of a lease include stuff like that ? - I mean a landlord wants his/her rent ....what does he/she care about sales figures/number of employees/stock levels ?

It depends on where the shop is. I know a lot of malls require a certain minimum number of employees be in the store during business hours. Not sure of the other stuff though.

If he signed that lease, he's a moron. FTW is in the same shopping center as a used book store that has like 2 old lady employees and probably does 1/8th of FTW's sales per month.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stevefamine wrote:
Rob is a stand up guy, he's in a rough spo here

The majority of people ITT and the other thread that are harping on him never actually had IRL dealings with him

You're kidding, right? FTW is not the first game store he's opened, and it won't be the last, nor is it the first time he's screwed people out of collection of miniatures/store credit/magic cards, and I can guarantee you it won't be the last. Maybe 6 years ago it was a sad story and it wasn't his fault and he shouldn't feel bad for all the poor gamers he owed money too, cry cry cry. But now it's a pattern. Ask anyone from the Tidewater area about his dealings with Atlantis Comics & Games and his destruction of Legends in Hampton, VA, and why he's reviled in that area.

Let's also talk about his track record with the local community. FTW was suspended from selling GW product at least _twice_ for violating their trade terms, and one time, One Eyed Jacques allowed FTW to place several GW stock orders through their account, and the second time, Dragon's Den did the same thing. Rob then rewarded both of them by reporting them to his GW sales rep that they had GW product in their ebay stores, promptly getting them placed on notice and suspended for a few weeks.

I've been gaming in RVA since '94 or so and Rob Baer is synonymous with super shadiness - almost as bad as Rusty, but at least Rusty when to jail. There will always be apologists no matter the years - decades - worth of evidence against this guy.

 judgedoug wrote:

 vitki wrote:

 keas66 wrote:
Just curious as I have no idea about leases on shops but why would the terms of a lease include stuff like that ? - I mean a landlord wants his/her rent ....what does he/she care about sales figures/number of employees/stock levels ?

It depends on where the shop is. I know a lot of malls require a certain minimum number of employees be in the store during business hours. Not sure of the other stuff though.

If he signed that lease, he's a moron. FTW is in the same shopping center as a used book store that has like 2 old lady employees and probably does 1/8th of FTW's sales per month.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stevefamine wrote:
Rob is a stand up guy, he's in a rough spo here

The majority of people ITT and the other thread that are harping on him never actually had IRL dealings with him

You're kidding, right? FTW is not the first game store he's opened, and it won't be the last, nor is it the first time he's screwed people out of collection of miniatures/store credit/magic cards, and I can guarantee you it won't be the last. Maybe 6 years ago it was a sad story and it wasn't his fault and he shouldn't feel bad for all the poor gamers he owed money too, cry cry cry. But now it's a pattern. Ask anyone from the Tidewater area about his dealings with Atlantis Comics & Games and his destruction of Legends in Hampton, VA, and why he's reviled in that area.

Let's also talk about his track record with the local community. FTW was suspended from selling GW product at least _twice_ for violating their trade terms, and one time, One Eyed Jacques allowed FTW to place several GW stock orders through their account, and the second time, Dragon's Den did the same thing. Rob then rewarded both of them by reporting them to his GW sales rep that they had GW product in their ebay stores, promptly getting them placed on notice and suspended for a few weeks.

I've been gaming in RVA since '94 or so and Rob Baer is synonymous with super shadiness - almost as bad as Rusty, but at least Rusty when to jail. There will always be apologists no matter the years - decades - worth of evidence against this guy.

Who are you again? Have you ever even spoken to him in person?

1994? Yes tell me more about how a 50 year old man is tarnishing a rep of someone who he's never met.

This is a bummer, never went to play at the store but I contantly got stuff from its big stock and used/bits piles when they still existed.

That whole strip mall seems like its not doing so well.

in the meantime is there any plans to meetup the same people in another place?

Jaques doesnt do wargamming anymore (though maybe after their exspansion)

and DD cant handle two stores worth of gamers

I wanted one of their gaming mats...well shucks.

 Stevefamine wrote:
1994? Yes tell me more about how a 50 year old man is tarnishing a rep of someone who he's never met.

Whew, I don't think anyone in the world can tarnish Rob Baer's reputation as much as he's tarnished it himself over the past decade.

As far as nkelsch and the_Armyman's goings backs and forths.... Breotan's comment was the only valid one. It is shady as hell to take preorders till the last minute when you know you're going down. Closing the doors isn't a surprise, taking those preorders is the exact type of gak that keeps Dakkadakka cynical. The other two comments were spiteful and unproductive.

Here is the best post of the page and should be remembered for all online transactions.

 Sean_OBrien wrote:

If you paid with a credit card - call your company and have them do the charge back. Tell them the business went into bankruptcy (they handle those a bit differently).

Same goes for PayPal (again - they have ways to handle that...).

If you paid with debit card...it depends. Technically you have the right to do a charge back for an EFT (all debit card activities) under CFR 12 Regulation E. However, many banks are a PITA to deal with or have odd hoops to jump through. If you have enough money out there to justify it - you certainly can...but you may have a liability on your part of $50 depending on your bank and how they decide to proceed.

Then way we do business today, we have protection. You just have to remember it's there. For the people who walked in to the brick and mortar and paid cash I do feel for ya, but you can get yourself on the bankruptcy creditor list.

Past all of this I'd like to say that my condolences go out to FTW/Spikeybits. I mean I wouldn't have gotten as much enjoyment out of 40k as I did through the last 10 years if it weren't for Battlewagon Bits, then Spikeybits. You guys kept the game fun for a lot of people and I hope you'll be recover.

 juraigamer wrote:
At the time, Spikey Bits was effectively the largest US bits seller. One could surmise that the actions taken by GW were directly aimed at Spikey Bits.

Which of course never made sense. GW never really sold bits, Spikey Bits bought GW product to turn into bits, GW sales were up which is good for investors.

Ya actually that's not true as several other companies were selling a ton more bits. Heck when I had my bits business I was doing in excess of 30k a month and could barely keep with demand and hoard'o'bits did ten times as much as me.

It sucks that he had to go into bankruptcy, but hopefully he bounces back.

Companies? Ebay accounts aren't necessarily the same.

If FTW had a judgment against it (for non-payment of rent, breach of lease terms, etc.), the Sheriff could just show up and lock them out of the story. End of story. There is no need to jump into conspiracy theories. Sucks for those who had store credit, but it is entirely possible to be unwillingly forced into bankruptcy by a creditor, which is what it sounds like may have happened (or he may have declared bankruptcy after the creditor started seizing assets, which is also common).

I think the issue also is that Rob has not spoken out about it at all. The customers at least deserve the right to know what happened for posterity if nothing else. Cutting and running with no comment comes off poorly.

IngusMaximus wrote:
I think the issue also is that Rob has not spoken out about it at all. The customers at least deserve the right to know what happened for posterity if nothing else. Cutting and running with no comment comes off poorly.

In the gaming community yes, but any good lawyer will tell you to "keep your mouth shut until everything is said and done." If there's any hope of him straightening things out, or if lawyers are involved then being silent is the best thing. He doesn't need to air his dirty laundry and possibly get into deeper trouble by blaming others or opening himself up to personal litigation if FTW was established as a true LLC.

 Theophony wrote:

IngusMaximus wrote:
I think the issue also is that Rob has not spoken out about it at all. The customers at least deserve the right to know what happened for posterity if nothing else. Cutting and running with no comment comes off poorly.

In the gaming community yes, but any good lawyer will tell you to "keep your mouth shut until everything is said and done." If there's any hope of him straightening things out, or if lawyers are involved then being silent is the best thing. He doesn't need to air his dirty laundry and possibly get into deeper trouble by blaming others or opening himself up to personal litigation if FTW was established as a true LLC.

I don't see how making any kind of public statement will do him any good. Some people are going to be pissed no matter what he says, or where blame gets pointed. Others (myself included) will choose not to support anything else he ever does in the gaming community. Yet others will come to his side to defend him. No point in giving any of those people ammunition.

Like was said, if you put the purchase on a card, get the charge reversed.

If you paid cash, that sucks and sorry to hear it.

Won't be missed my me. I ordered online a few times from them and found their service to be indifferent at best. I moved on to other providers.

Also, this will hopefully be the end of the terribly named 'Forge The Narrative' podcast, and maybe someone that actually cares about the game and lore can start using it instead. It was a joke to call a podcast that was mostly devoted to breaking and bending rules and WAAC tournament gaming that.

 Sean_OBrien wrote:
The lease terms - while onerous, are not uncommon for newer construction strip malls. They do that so that they can ensure the foot traffic stays up and they are not leasing out to companies that will devalue the property to the left and right of them. They also get into types of displays, signage, windows, hours of operation and a whole host of other issues that - seem ridiculous until you look at why those clauses are written into the lease.

I myself wouldn't consider signing it for a game store (too volatile of an operation) but depending on the local market - it might have been the only facility that fit their needs as a business.

Regarding "taking money" till the last minute... Quite common to be honest. More often than not - the difference between bankruptcy and insolvency for a small business is the difference between a good day of sales on Monday and a bad day of sales on Friday. If the sales had come in strong over the weekend - it might have allowed them to have the capital to keep the business open. If they didn't...that would mean bankruptcy. You roll the dice, and hope you win.

That may or may not apply to Spikey Bits/FTW (never bought from them - have no knowledge of the owners) - but simply trying to keep the business running by maintaining the website doesn't immediately mean they were looking to fleece anyone.

Thank you for the clarification on the lease terms being standard practice.

 Stevefamine wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

 vitki wrote:

 keas66 wrote:
Just curious as I have no idea about leases on shops but why would the terms of a lease include stuff like that ? - I mean a landlord wants his/her rent ....what does he/she care about sales figures/number of employees/stock levels ?

It depends on where the shop is. I know a lot of malls require a certain minimum number of employees be in the store during business hours. Not sure of the other stuff though.

If he signed that lease, he's a moron. FTW is in the same shopping center as a used book store that has like 2 old lady employees and probably does 1/8th of FTW's sales per month.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stevefamine wrote:
Rob is a stand up guy, he's in a rough spo here

The majority of people ITT and the other thread that are harping on him never actually had IRL dealings with him

You're kidding, right? FTW is not the first game store he's opened, and it won't be the last, nor is it the first time he's screwed people out of collection of miniatures/store credit/magic cards, and I can guarantee you it won't be the last. Maybe 6 years ago it was a sad story and it wasn't his fault and he shouldn't feel bad for all the poor gamers he owed money too, cry cry cry. But now it's a pattern. Ask anyone from the Tidewater area about his dealings with Atlantis Comics & Games and his destruction of Legends in Hampton, VA, and why he's reviled in that area.

Let's also talk about his track record with the local community. FTW was suspended from selling GW product at least _twice_ for violating their trade terms, and one time, One Eyed Jacques allowed FTW to place several GW stock orders through their account, and the second time, Dragon's Den did the same thing. Rob then rewarded both of them by reporting them to his GW sales rep that they had GW product in their ebay stores, promptly getting them placed on notice and suspended for a few weeks.

I've been gaming in RVA since '94 or so and Rob Baer is synonymous with super shadiness - almost as bad as Rusty, but at least Rusty when to jail. There will always be apologists no matter the years - decades - worth of evidence against this guy.

Who are you again? Have you ever even spoken to him in person?

1994? Yes tell me more about how a 50 year old man is tarnishing a rep of someone who he's never met.

While i don't have a dog in this fight.... since when does gaming since 1994 make you 50 ?

I've been mini gaming since 1989. I'm 35.

Also you keep saying he's never met him in real life, but the weird thing about that is, he seems to have at least a lot of (albeit) anecdotal facts. You just have this hollow assertion he doesn't know Rob. But it seems like he knows a lot about him.


I feel bad for the people that are owed money. IT appears to me that the guy signed a lease which was a poor business decision and his loyal customers are the ones who are eating crow because of it.

Other than that.... game store closes, holy gak, in other news sky is blue, pigs don't fly, waters wet, and North Korea's leader is flying rodent gak insane. Shocking, all of it.

-- haight

 Haight wrote:
Other than that.... game store closes, holy gak, in other news sky is blue, pigs don't fly, waters wet, and North Korea's leader is flying rodent gak insane. Shocking, all of it.

-- haight

You've obviously never been to Cincinnati ...

Sorry Famine, but judgedoug is a long time member of the site who also claims to have a bunch of experience with the guy and has relationships with people who have had bad experiences. You're a guy with 24 posts calling him out. I don't know Rob, and I've had no interactions with him, but Doug is a pretty decent guy, and according to him, Rob has been in a very similar situation before. I'm certainly going to trust Doug before I trust you (seeing as how you're at opposing views). Experience is the name of the game, and this site has lots of experiences with "issue people".

Gone, but not forgotten:

http://spikeybitsblog.com/2014/10/the-return-of-spikey-bits-mail-order.html

Someone has a "Delaware store front" it seems. Or the name is being used by another person with a trade account just for brand recognition?

I rarely dealt with SpikeyBitz. Miniature Market and Warstore (more the latter) are my go to sites. I've met Rob a time or two, didn't seem like the business type to me, but what do I know? This just solidifies my "never leave store credit on the table" rule when dealing with game stores. I'm sorry for folks who are losing money in this, as well.

Since when did post count = validity? Personal battles should be kept out of the public sphere regardless. Unless you're in politics...

 juraigamer wrote:
Since when did post count = validity? Personal battles should be kept out of the public sphere regardless. Unless you're in politics...

For what it's worth, post count is at least a measure of involvement and recognition. You have more data points to cull from when judging the integrity or personality of the individual. Thus, someone with a handful is still an unknown quantity versus someone with thousands who has a standing persona (be it real, fake, or otherwise).

Essentially, to other regular goers, it's credibility of voice; be it either immediate discredit or respect, those are earned.

And when it comes to our (or any) niche hobby, we don't forget when getting burnt and history has a way of following people. I saw this in my Dad's hobby of RC aircraft much like we see it in our vendors and personalities. When you see a name attached that's been around for awhile, you can draw reasonable conclusions.

Or as the 43rd President of these United States once said:

KBob said it best. But yes, post count usually helps show character. Lots of posts give people a chance to see if you have anything worthwhile to say, or aren't worth listening to. Low post counts mean we have less to view to form an opinion. So when somebody with a high post count who has shown himself to be a decent guy on here calls out a store for doing the same thing twice in a row, and a low count guy attacks him for it...I know where I'll side. Every damn time.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
KBob said it best. But yes, post count usually helps show character. Lots of posts give people a chance to see if you have anything worthwhile to say, or aren't worth listening to. Low post counts mean we have less to view to form an opinion. So when somebody with a high post count who has shown himself to be a decent guy on here calls out a store for doing the same thing twice in a row, and a low count guy attacks him for it...I know where I'll side. Every damn time.

Or you could do the rational thing for someone with no direct involvement and no access to anything other than third-hand anecdotal information; don't "side" with anyone. Mr High Postcount could genuinely believe everything they've heard about this bloke, and it could still be total, absolute nonsense - I've seen someone branded as a rapist by people who never knew them, never met them, never even knew any individuals involved or related to the events that supposedly transpired, and they believed it utterly despite the fact it was a lie, indeed they still believed it even after I told them it was a lie and that I knew that for a fact as I had been friends with the person who started and spread the rumour because of some petty feud between the two of them.

Taking pre-orders right up to the closure of the store was sketchy, and even if it can be explained by the lease terms the fault would still technically be Baer's since he signed a lease with such onerous terms, but making any judgement beyond that given we have nothing more than hearsay to go on is just petty gossiping.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Sorry Famine, but judgedoug is a long time member of the site who also claims to have a bunch of experience with the guy and has relationships with people who have had bad experiences. You're a guy with 24 posts calling him out. I don't know Rob, and I've had no interactions with him, but Doug is a pretty decent guy, and according to him, Rob has been in a very similar situation before. I'm certainly going to trust Doug before I trust you (seeing as how you're at opposing views). Experience is the name of the game, and this site has lots of experiences with "issue people".

Conversely, I've met and gamed with Rob, while both you and judgedoug could be internet bots for all I know.

I can't speak to anything being discussed in this thread, but it certainly seems like poor behavior on judgedoug's part to be throwing around a lot of vague insinuations, especially when none of us are in command of the facts.

Interesting that he has joined up with Dicehead Games.

I know both Rob (SpikeyBitz) and Shane (Dicehead), knowing Shane a little better. Shane is a good, honest guy - loves the hobby and has done a lot to improve it - with the ATC to show for it. He has a great store that he and Mel (his wife) run in Cleveland TN. As good of a guy in the Game Store business as you will find.

I also think Rob is pretty ok - although others on here may agree/disagree. Regardless - there is no doubt of his love for the hobby and the fact that he adds a lot into it. A crap-ton of people - me included - have gotten great deals off of Spikeybitz on used miniatures as well as the place to go when you wanted a bit for conversion - but didn't want to buy the whole model. The things he posts around "armies on Display", Conversions, videos of model unboxing, reviews of upcoming books, etc - that's all GREAT stuff for the Warhammer hobby.

So - I'm sad about Rob losing his store. I'm excited for Shane and Rob to be working together and wish them all the best.

I'd be wary of any 'spikeybitz' the return until whatever bankruptcy/legal issues have been settled,

as the name and brand recognition could be considered an asset that could be taken away

(and there would always be the slight possibility that using it could be construed in taking on the debts of the old business)

Aeneades wrote:
Seems like a few people are upset as they were taking preorders and money up until last night when they knew they wouldn't be able to fulfil the orders (they claim that they couldn't have a closing down sale or advise customers as the tenancy contract they have lets the building owners store all assets if they do, all of which sounds very unusual).

That would not stand up in court. The fact that your store is going out of business and you are therefore incapable of fulfilling your side of a contract for future consideration (the goods being pre-ordered) is clearly relevant to the other party in this contract (the customer). Allowing the customer to enter into this contract while intentionally concealing this relevant fact is fraud. As such, an attempt to mandate that the tenant commit this fraud against their customers would be an illegal agreement and unenforceable.

 AlexHolker wrote:

Aeneades wrote:
Seems like a few people are upset as they were taking preorders and money up until last night when they knew they wouldn't be able to fulfil the orders (they claim that they couldn't have a closing down sale or advise customers as the tenancy contract they have lets the building owners store all assets if they do, all of which sounds very unusual).

That would not stand up in court. The fact that your store is going out of business and you are therefore incapable of fulfilling your side of a contract for future consideration (the goods being pre-ordered) is clearly relevant to the other party in this contract (the customer). Allowing the customer to enter into this contract while intentionally concealing this relevant fact is fraud. As such, an attempt to mandate that the tenant commit this fraud against their customers would be an illegal agreement and unenforceable.

Fraud requires intent, and as someone else pointed out earlier in the thread even if an owner knows a business is "on the ropes", one or two good days of trading could be enough to keep things going past the crisis point and allow them to dig themselves out of the hole. Unless the guy's been wandering the mall cackling maniacally and boasting about how he fleeced preorder customers, good luck proving in court that he was guilty of fraudulent intent rather than optimism that in hindsight appears hopeless.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:

Aeneades wrote:
Seems like a few people are upset as they were taking preorders and money up until last night when they knew they wouldn't be able to fulfil the orders (they claim that they couldn't have a closing down sale or advise customers as the tenancy contract they have lets the building owners store all assets if they do, all of which sounds very unusual).

That would not stand up in court. The fact that your store is going out of business and you are therefore incapable of fulfilling your side of a contract for future consideration (the goods being pre-ordered) is clearly relevant to the other party in this contract (the customer). Allowing the customer to enter into this contract while intentionally concealing this relevant fact is fraud. As such, an attempt to mandate that the tenant commit this fraud against their customers would be an illegal agreement and unenforceable.

Fraud requires intent...

If Aeneades is accurately conveying their attempted justification, that proves intent. They aren't claiming they didn't know how screwed they were, so why are you?

I've known Rob a long time and he is a class act. I wish the best for him.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:

Aeneades wrote:
Seems like a few people are upset as they were taking preorders and money up until last night when they knew they wouldn't be able to fulfil the orders (they claim that they couldn't have a closing down sale or advise customers as the tenancy contract they have lets the building owners store all assets if they do, all of which sounds very unusual).

That would not stand up in court. The fact that your store is going out of business and you are therefore incapable of fulfilling your side of a contract for future consideration (the goods being pre-ordered) is clearly relevant to the other party in this contract (the customer). Allowing the customer to enter into this contract while intentionally concealing this relevant fact is fraud. As such, an attempt to mandate that the tenant commit this fraud against their customers would be an illegal agreement and unenforceable.

Fraud requires intent...

If Aeneades is accurately conveying their attempted justification, that proves intent. They aren't claiming they didn't know how screwed they were, so why are you?

Erm, it doesn't really, and I wasn't. Not in the sense that I was claiming that was what they were saying, but also in the sense that's not an accurate summation of my argument - you can know you're screwed, totally and utterly, but as long as you can plausibly argue that, while you knew you could go out of business soon, it was not utterly inevitable while you were still taking preorders, and that you had every intention of honouring those preorders, then you have no intent to defraud.

I seriously doubt this lease would have a clause in it saying "you gotta fleece those mugs till the last moment even if you're goin under", just something along the lines of requiring the tenant to trade normally until they are no longer capable of doing so, which providing they were not trading in certain knowledge that they would be out of business on X date means the lease doesn't require them to commit fraud. My whole point here is that all we have to go on is third-hand hearsay so people staking out a position on this guy's character based on the postcount of whoever the gossip is coming from, or throwing around words like "fraud", is premature.

 totalfailure wrote:
Won't be missed my me. I ordered online a few times from them and found their service to be indifferent at best. I moved on to other providers.

Also, this will hopefully be the end of the terribly named 'Forge The Narrative' podcast, and maybe someone that actually cares about the game and lore can start using it instead. It was a joke to call a podcast that was mostly devoted to breaking and bending rules and WAAC tournament gaming that.

That was the joke. It was making fun of the direction GW went with 6th edition with less solid rules and playing them off as something the player should fix by 'forging the narrative'

I've met Rob before on occasion at FTW and while everyone might be a little irked by his buisness practices, Im ultimately not too miffed even though i think lost some 30-40 in store credit.

I have been in the nightclub buissness for about a decade now, and it kind of takes someone with a little cut-throatedness to put together the finances and running order of that place you like to go party with your friends. The gears of the funhouse do not turn on their own.

yes he is a little business minded, I wont go into the specifics of my grievances with him (incidentally an issue of store credit years ago), it is tiny by comparison to others and it was nothing that could not be remedied, and was very politely.

It is tough on the matter of the last minute closedown with no warning, taking pre-orders and whatever, but this is also nothing new, most venues Ive worked with that closed down did so usually over the course of two days. Its usually a realization close to the end of the month (Just like this one) when you do numbers and realize that you are slipping back into the whole, or have been for too long. For one of my owners I dealt with, it was realizing that it would take another 5 years of no profit to get back the money she put in while it was slow. or for another was simply an issue of a lending organization (Be it Bank Friend or Family) taking someone down with it.
These people are willing to go down to wire and risk it all to keep their business open. Robs gonna lose a lot of money and his job and his employees jobs, one of my venue owners actually managed to lose their house.

He may be a crook, but hes our crook, and unless you are at an investor level or lost a substantial amount of money, you should be thankful that you got enjoy the byproduct of his crook-ness while he went to bat against the financial universe for the abstract enjoyment of science fiction and fantasy storylines

 jeeb_sound wrote:


He may be a crook, but hes our crook, and unless you are at an investor level or lost a substantial amount of money, you should be thankful that you got enjoy the byproduct of his crook-ness while he went to bat against the financial universe for the abstract enjoyment of science fiction and fantasy storylines

Um... no. No need to be grateful for crooks, especially when plenty of gaming stores, FLGS, e-tailers etc.. manage to do a fine job running a profitable business selling wargaming miniatures (without ripping open the package for the shady extra profit of selling it in bits). It's not like this is some kind of ground-breaking no-precedent business-model.

Whatever he did to sink it, the least he was, was stupid. If he was a crook on top of it and left people with money short, whether it's a dollar or a million, he deserves to be publicly shamed for his actions, more so if there is a reasonable chance he could try his hand again in this industry.

Wonderwolf wrote:

 jeeb_sound wrote:


He may be a crook, but hes our crook, and unless you are at an investor level or lost a substantial amount of money, you should be thankful that you got enjoy the byproduct of his crook-ness while he went to bat against the financial universe for the abstract enjoyment of science fiction and fantasy storylines

Um... no. No need to be grateful for crooks, especially when plenty of gaming stores, FLGS, e-tailers etc.. manage to do a fine job running a profitable business selling wargaming miniatures (without ripping open the package for the shady extra profit of selling it in bits). It's not like this is some kind of ground-breaking no-precedent business-model.

Whatever he did to sink it, the least he was, was stupid. If he was a crook on top of it and left people with money short, whether it's a dollar or a million, he deserves to be publicly shamed for his actions, more so if there is a reasonable chance he could try his hand again in this industry.

Selling bits is not "shady", it's a service, one that third parties stepped in to provide when GW couldn't be arsed any more. Businesses go bankrupt, it's a shame, particularly for the employees, but losing your business does NOT make you a crook, and nobody deserves to be "publicly shamed" unless you can PROVE they have done something wrong.

Kinda jumping the gun a little calling him a crook. This has been less than a week. If it was me, I'd be trying to process and regroup - and still figuring out what the go forward plan is going to be.

I would think Rob would be a stand up guy who will do his best to make things right with people - especially anyone who paid but didn't get product. Store credit might be harder - but maybe they can get their product back if he hasn't sold it yet.

All I'm saying is give him a chance and see if he makes right....and if he does be stand up enough to post back here that he did.....

Bought from spiky bits before. Prices and service was great. Sad to see them go.

I want to state that I use the word crook endearingly. as I pointed out he dealt with the real universe so we could all act like it didn't exist for long enough to enjoy ourselves and for this im thankfull

From personal experience I was delt a shady deal by Spikey Bitz over an eBay sale of scarabs. Ordered the Bitz and time came and went without receiving them. Contacted Spikey Bitz and was told to wait despite a tracking number that was not active. Ended up having to file for a refund and won because to legitimate tracking number was never provided and subsequently was blocked from spikey Bitz eBay sales. All I wanted was a refund and to order the set they refused to replace. Very shady business practice, IMO.

hmmmm

A lot of people are jumping to conclusions based on hearsay and even less. I've been talking to people directly involved and it wasn't shady and it happened very fast, as in a weekend they went from good times to forced to close. Yeah, I lost some, but it wasn't from crookedness, just lousy business sense.

 MWHistorian wrote:
A lot of people are jumping to conclusions based on hearsay and even less. I've been talking to people directly involved and it wasn't shady and it happened very fast, as in a weekend they went from good times to forced to close. Yeah, I lost some, but it wasn't from crookedness, just lousy business sense.

Even if this is true, even if the business genuinely went from good times to bankruptcy over a weekend, a business that is this volatile has no business taking preorders or offering store credit. Barring a sinkhole opening up underneath your store or something similarly unpredictable, a customer who has given you money in advance for your product should be safe in assuming your business will still exist the following week.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
A lot of people are jumping to conclusions based on hearsay and even less. I've been talking to people directly involved and it wasn't shady and it happened very fast, as in a weekend they went from good times to forced to close. Yeah, I lost some, but it wasn't from crookedness, just lousy business sense.

Even if this is true, even if the business genuinely went from good times to bankruptcy over a weekend, a business that is this volatile has no business taking preorders or offering store credit. Barring a sinkhole opening up underneath your store or something similarly unpredictable, a customer who has given you money in advance for your product should be safe in assuming your business will still exist the following week.

What I'm saying is that it was very sudden and very drastic and had no idea that the business would go under until the day it did. (Think TSR type situation.)
Of course they would continue taking pre-orders. They were in a slump that was normal for this time of year. (Just before the holidays.)

Yeah, come on guys, if somebody gets a court order that says hand over your bank account, you're out of business that day. Who knows what happened here, but I'm sure it's something similar.

Good luck to Rob. I have enjoyed the FTN podcast for some time - I hope they keep it up.

 MWHistorian wrote:
What I'm saying is that it was very sudden and very drastic and had no idea that the business would go under until the day it did. (Think TSR type situation.)

That's your example? A company run into the ground by years of incompetence and contempt for their customers?

I'm just wanting some more info from any official response. We can save the torches and pitchforks for then, if they are warranted.

 juraigamer wrote:
I'm just wanting some more info from any official response. We can save the torches and pitchforks for then, if they are warranted.

This. I don't know this fellow from Adam. If something more than vague anecdotal evidence is posted that proves the chap a crook, the gaming community will have plenty of time to oil up the pitchforks. Until then, I'm simply refraining from having an opinion (as I'm not in possession of the facts), and offer my condolences (worthless as they may be) to those who've found themselves on the wrong side of the employment fence or store credit cheque.

 juraigamer wrote:
I'm just wanting some more info from any official response. We can save the torches and pitchforks for then, if they are warranted.

I doubt we will hear anything at all. If so, we already would have heard.

Whether on purpose, or just through gross incompetence in running his business, the facts remain the same. People are out of money, or credit. If users decide to continue to support someone that left them high and dry, feel free. Just don't be surprised when it happens again.

I would imagine that during any legal process he is being told to keep his mouth shut until everything is said and done. I worked IT for several lawyers and have been used for witnessing on a technical end and this is usually the case. Plus they get pretty steamed up when they do not listen since anything he may say will be used against him one way or another.

On the other hand I have done business with him before and chatted on and off with him online. He always seemed extremely responsive and truly loved the hobby. So my experience has always been good. He even pointed me towards the person I use for when I painting services.

 inquisitorlewis wrote:

 juraigamer wrote:
I'm just wanting some more info from any official response. We can save the torches and pitchforks for then, if they are warranted.

I doubt we will hear anything at all. If so, we already would have heard.

Whether on purpose, or just through gross incompetence in running his business, the facts remain the same. People are out of money, or credit. If users decide to continue to support someone that left them high and dry, feel free. Just don't be surprised when it happens again.

Or, y'know, the many many other options. You do get that there are more reasons a business can fail than "it was a scam" and "the owner was incompetent", aye?

 Yodhrin wrote:

 inquisitorlewis wrote:

 juraigamer wrote:
I'm just wanting some more info from any official response. We can save the torches and pitchforks for then, if they are warranted.

I doubt we will hear anything at all. If so, we already would have heard.

Whether on purpose, or just through gross incompetence in running his business, the facts remain the same. People are out of money, or credit. If users decide to continue to support someone that left them high and dry, feel free. Just don't be surprised when it happens again.

Or, y'know, the many many other options. You do get that there are more reasons a business can fail than "it was a scam" and "the owner was incompetent", aye?

Spin it however you like. It still doesn't change the fact that he issued credit and took preorders that he was not able to fulfill.

 inquisitorlewis wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 inquisitorlewis wrote:

 juraigamer wrote:
I'm just wanting some more info from any official response. We can save the torches and pitchforks for then, if they are warranted.

I doubt we will hear anything at all. If so, we already would have heard.

Whether on purpose, or just through gross incompetence in running his business, the facts remain the same. People are out of money, or credit. If users decide to continue to support someone that left them high and dry, feel free. Just don't be surprised when it happens again.

Or, y'know, the many many other options. You do get that there are more reasons a business can fail than "it was a scam" and "the owner was incompetent", aye?

Spin it however you like. It still doesn't change the fact that he issued credit and took preorders that he was not able to fulfill.

I'm not "spinning" anything, YOU are the one who is perpetually putting the most negative cast possible on everything, most of us are simply arguing that reserving judgement is the sensible thing to do. It has been pointed out several times by several people that taking preorders does not require the owner to have malicious intent because it is possible for a small business like a game store to be viable or otherwise based on a single week or even a single day's trading.

Anybody with a grudge can anon post trollish drivel... it doesn't really amount to anything.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Anybody with a grudge can anon post trollish drivel... it doesn't really amount to anything.

That's what it seems like to me. Sure, I lost $120 but I don't believe for a second that it was from something shady or underhanded.

How'd you end up losing $120?

I find it really interesting/odd how many people misunderstood my previous comment in the thread. I'll rebreak it down:

-Judgedoug mentioned having personal experience and close friends burned by this guy in the past.
-New poster comes in, calling him out-how dare he malign Rob, "who is he to..."
-I say that a member who has been here for a long time and has "proven himself" is more trusted than a brand new person trying to shout him down
-I'm inclined to believe Doug over new poster
-I don't know Rob from Adam (the Biblical one, that is). I have nothing against him, personally. But I'm going to pay more attention to the poster who has been here long term than I am to the poster who has been here three days.

I don't see what's so difficult about that.

 Alpharius wrote:
How'd you end up losing $120?

Pre ordered Operation Ice storm a month or two ago and now will never see it.
I'm actually more upset about not getting the exclusive pre-order model.

 gorgon wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Sorry Famine, but judgedoug is a long time member of the site who also claims to have a bunch of experience with the guy and has relationships with people who have had bad experiences. You're a guy with 24 posts calling him out. I don't know Rob, and I've had no interactions with him, but Doug is a pretty decent guy, and according to him, Rob has been in a very similar situation before. I'm certainly going to trust Doug before I trust you (seeing as how you're at opposing views). Experience is the name of the game, and this site has lots of experiences with "issue people".

Conversely, I've met and gamed with Rob, while both you and judgedoug could be internet bots for all I know.

I can't speak to anything being discussed in this thread, but it certainly seems like poor behavior on judgedoug's part to be throwing around a lot of vague insinuations, especially when none of us are in command of the facts.

Shrug, that's the same mentality when he opened FTW despite him doing nearly the same thing that just happened to FTW about a 2 hour drive away. All the patrons of the shiny new FTW didn't want to believe that dude was sketchy despite all the anecdotal evidence from people he had stolen armies and money from.

So I let it simmer for a bit, hey, maybe he's changed his tune. Went into the store and I'd even spent several hundred dollars there on supplies and minis. So, hell, even I got fooled. Still, he was always a dick. When I started as a Sarge for Warlord, I offered to demo Bolt Action or other Warlord games at FTW; his response being that no one plays that "crap" and only the elite gamers play at FTW and that's only GW and Magic. So I demo'ed at a competitor, and then he publicly posted on his facebook that I was a shill for the competing store and even tagged Warlord in the post (to try to get me in trouble?) when I had commented on one of his posts correcting his description of Space Crusader or something. So, again, shrug, brush aside any criticisms and anecdotal evidence you please, it really honestly matters not to me, as I maybe had like $4 left in store credit there.

And now FTW is closed; there's thousands of dollars worth of other people's miniatures on display - and several armies that were being evaluated for trade-in credit - that are now gone. Not to mention thousands and thousands of dollars worth of preorders and thousands and thousands of dollars worth of store credit. I seem to recall this happening a few years ago to the store that he ran previously to FTW as well! I'm wondering if he's going to bother to flee the state this time, or just open a different gaming store in VA and hope everyone's memories are as short as they were a few years ago



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wow, Rob has banned me from the FTW facebook page and they've deleted tons of comments. I guess he is looking at this thread, lol.

Regardless, I can see that this thread is just boiling down to a weird defense of FTW/SB/Rob from people who had money stolen from them and are still supporting a guy who has done this in the past.

Unfollowing this thread, because it's frankly absurd to me.

I would recommend any neutral third-party observer to avoid anything associated with Rob Baer in the future. That's my totally 100% subjective anecdotal take.

Sorry Judge, now I know you are full of it. FTW was never Magic or GW exclusive elitist Crap. They had an entire table dedicated to Infinity. A strong Warmachine and Malifaux community. Sold almost every game and was even starting to demo Relic Knights. I've never had a bad experience with Rob or FTW.

So now finally the truth - he snubbed you and now you've got an axe to grind. I'd have a hard time believing anything you say bad about Rob knowing you personally don't like him... Too much of a bias.

Not sure why people are ok with losing money and then defend the guy who took the money. That part doesn't make sense to me at all.

That said I've never done any business wtih Rob's stores. Had no intention of doing so. I don't live in VA though my cousins do but they didn't come to his store anyway.

Oh well.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I find it really interesting/odd how many people misunderstood my previous comment in the thread. I'll rebreak it down:

-Judgedoug mentioned having personal experience and close friends burned by this guy in the past.
-New poster comes in, calling him out-how dare he malign Rob, "who is he to..."
-I say that a member who has been here for a long time and has "proven himself" is more trusted than a brand new person trying to shout him down
-I'm inclined to believe Doug over new poster
-I don't know Rob from Adam (the Biblical one, that is). I have nothing against him, personally. But I'm going to pay more attention to the poster who has been here long term than I am to the poster who has been here three days.

I don't see what's so difficult about that.

Nobody has misunderstood, some of us just disagree that third- and fourth-hand gossip, regardless of how many posts the person relating it has, is a sound basis for any form of conclusion, no matter how provisional. Particularly since spreading rumours around can seriously damage a person's reputation and thus future prospects - look at this thread, not a single shred of evidence of any wrongdoing, yet people are throwing around words like "crook" and "scam" and "fraud" as if malicious motivation on the part of the owner is every bit as likely a reason for the business going under as any other, while even the most rudimentary understanding of how precarious small businesses are, how many factors outside the owner's control can lead to their demise, and how those apply particularly in the case of niche markets like wargaming hobby stores make it far more likely that this situation is a result of some combination of uncontrollable external factors and decision making which only seems obviously wrong with hindsight.

If something untoward has happened, and if actual evidence to that effect is presented, then is the time to discuss that angle seriously. Until then it's just innuendo.

I didn't know much about FTW games but Spikey Bits I never quite enjoyed the way they handled promotion and their kit reviews. The company was incredibly focused on only Warhammer 40k and it got to a point where it was annoying. I couldn't watch a review on a fantasy kit or a book without them mentioning using it for 40k or if 40k would receive the same treatment. This may just be me not really being upset about them going because they were only focused on one thing in such an expanding market...but...meh.

As for FTW games, this makes me wonder.

It sure sounds as if Rob/FTW/Spikey have done some shady things with people's money and/or miniatures here.

 Musashi363 wrote:
Sorry Judge, now I know you are full of it. FTW was never Magic or GW exclusive elitist Crap. They had an entire table dedicated to Infinity. A strong Warmachine and Malifaux community. Sold almost every game and was even starting to demo Relic Knights. I've never had a bad experience with Rob or FTW.

I know, and I personally benefited from the 50% off Lord of the Rings sale he had, as well as the discount bin (I got Puppet Wars for 50% off as well), which is why it was really bizarre that he didn't want free demos of Warlord product.
Even stranger is that he had Warlord Pike & Shotte infantry in the "bits boxes" near the boardgames.
Or wait, am I still full of it?

Always win win when mod encourages flaming. :(

 Dozer Blades wrote:
So now finally the truth - he snubbed you and now you've got an axe to grind. I'd have a hard time believing anything you say bad about Rob knowing you personally don't like him... Too much of a bias.

So he "snubbed" me in January 2014 when I offered to demo Bolt Action, so I went back in time to the mid 2000's, made him open a game store in Hampton, made him get into several altercations with Atlantis, made him close up his store and steal a bunch of customers' minis, store credit, and preorder money, then I made him move to Richmond where I then made him open FTW and then made him do the EXACT SAME THING

brilliant, Sherlock.

I think you've got your head in the sand on this one Steve - or you know more than you're telling?

 judgedoug wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
So now finally the truth - he snubbed you and now you've got an axe to grind. I'd have a hard time believing anything you say bad about Rob knowing you personally don't like him... Too much of a bias.

So he "snubbed" me in January 2014 when I offered to demo Bolt Action, so I went back in time to the mid 2000's, made him open a game store in Hampton, made him get into several altercations with Atlantis, made him close up his store and steal a bunch of customers' minis, store credit, and preorder money, then I made him move to Richmond where I then made him open FTW and then made him do the EXACT SAME THING

brilliant, Sherlock.

If this is all true, you should have absolutely no issues providing actual evidence to back up your presently baseless assertions.

And I have to agree with Dozer Blades, Alpharius, it's extremely disappointing to see a mod encouraging this kind of gossiping and innuendo given we're now onto the fourth page without a single actual shred of proof of any wrongdoing being posted.

 Alpharius wrote:
It sure sounds as if Rob/FTW/Spikey have done some shady things with people's money and/or miniatures here.

You are correct. Removing anything I or anyone else has had to say about it, there are several known facts.

FTW closed for business late at night.
Rob retains a quantity of people's miniatures collections, as well as terrain.
Rob retains a quantity of people's preorder money.
Rob retains a quantity of people's store credit.
FTW has not allowed anyone to retrieve any of their personal possessions from the store.

Additionally, this is the second game store Rob has opened and closed in the same fashion.

Please, please, anyone, anyone at all, disregarding everything I've said, from my subjective personal experience, or what anyone else has said, please dispute the above.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
So now finally the truth - he snubbed you and now you've got an axe to grind. I'd have a hard time believing anything you say bad about Rob knowing you personally don't like him... Too much of a bias.

Um... wait?

People who have no personal first-hand experience should not voice their take on it, because they lack said first-hand experience?
People who do have personal first-hand experience also should not voice their take on it, because they are biased?

Doesn't really leave a lot, no?

 judgedoug wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
It sure sounds as if Rob/FTW/Spikey have done some shady things with people's money and/or miniatures here.

You are correct. Removing anything I or anyone else has had to say about it, there are several known facts.

FTW closed for business late at night.
Rob retains a quantity of people's miniatures collections, as well as terrain.
Rob retains a quantity of people's preorder money.
Rob retains a quantity of people's store credit.
FTW has not allowed anyone to retrieve any of their personal possessions from the store.

Additionally, this is the second game store Rob has opened and closed in the same fashion.

Please, please, anyone, anyone at all, disregarding everything I've said, from my subjective personal experience, or what anyone else has said, please dispute the above.

OK now you're just taking the mick, because saying what amounts to "these things have happened which are common events during the closure/bankruptcy of a business, they are clear evidence that something fishy is going on!" and expecting to be taken seriously is laughable.

Wonderwolf wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
So now finally the truth - he snubbed you and now you've got an axe to grind. I'd have a hard time believing anything you say bad about Rob knowing you personally don't like him... Too much of a bias.

Um... wait?

People who have no personal first-hand experience should not voice their take on it, because they lack said first-hand experience?
People who do have personal first-hand experience also should not voice their take on it, because they are biased?

Doesn't really leave a lot, no?

Facts? Evidence? Documentation? We're being asked to believe this person who we do not know personally is a crook, a serial crook in fact, based on accusations from one person which have not been substantiated.

All I know is Rob is a good guy and I have known him a long time.

judgedoug wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
It sure sounds as if Rob/FTW/Spikey have done some shady things with people's money and/or miniatures here.

You are correct. Removing anything I or anyone else has had to say about it, there are several known facts.

FTW closed for business late at night.
Rob retains a quantity of people's miniatures collections, as well as terrain.
Rob retains a quantity of people's preorder money.
Rob retains a quantity of people's store credit.
FTW has not allowed anyone to retrieve any of their personal possessions from the store.

Additionally, this is the second game store Rob has opened and closed in the same fashion.

Please, please, anyone, anyone at all, disregarding everything I've said, from my subjective personal experience, or what anyone else has said, please dispute the above.

That's the stuff that I was referencing here.

I'd love to hear the 'official' FTW take on it.

Dozer Blades wrote:All I know is Rob is a good guy and I have known him a long time.

Maybe you could ask him about the above list? Get some clarification?

 judgedoug wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
It sure sounds as if Rob/FTW/Spikey have done some shady things with people's money and/or miniatures here.

You are correct. Removing anything I or anyone else has had to say about it, there are several known facts.

FTW closed for business late at night.
Rob retains a quantity of people's miniatures collections, as well as terrain.
Rob retains a quantity of people's preorder money.
Rob retains a quantity of people's store credit.
FTW has not allowed anyone to retrieve any of their personal possessions from the store.

Additionally, this is the second game store Rob has opened and closed in the same fashion.

Please, please, anyone, anyone at all, disregarding everything I've said, from my subjective personal experience, or what anyone else has said, please dispute the above.

No one is disputing the info your posting above. But you must understand there are certain things that must be done when a business folds, especially if it's due to bankruptcy.

We don't have ANY indication if it's bankruptcy, or if he has fled to a country with no extradition treaty where he is smoking cigars, drinking the local alchohol and teaching the local girls to play 7th edition 40K with the collections of miniatures he has "stolen" by your assertions.

IF he lost the business to the bank, he's probably dealing with the bankers and making sure his LLC is in order so they cannot take his personal assets. He probably doesn't have access to the store either in this case. Whoever now controls/owns the store will have to do an inventory of what's on hand compare it to what's on the books, and if this is just some banker/bean counter then there's going to be trouble for anyone who leaves models for display at the store, or those who have left models to trade in/sell. If the banker actually has him help sort through things, then people might get their stuff back.

As for your beef with him for not wanting you to demo games in the store....well if your attitude in the game store is similar to what's been shown in this thread then I can fully understand why. I've worked for multiple comic, game and hobby stores and there's always someone who thinks they can "do me a solid" by demoing a system that there's just not enough demand, space or funds to support. I'm glad you like that system, but in the end I need to have my financials fluid, which looks like it didn't happen here.

It's time for this thread to DIE! Until something concrete comes about, Rob makes a statement, or lawsuits pop up. Otherwise all we have are personal attacks against each other and Rob who as far as I know doesn't come onto DakkaDakka.

If FTW/SpikeyBits knew that the store was in such dire financial straits that they might not be able to stay open past September and Rob chose not to tell anyone that would be adversely affected by the store closing that's seriously messed up. Yes, once the store went bankrupt and/or repossesed by the landlord and was padlocked by the sherrif there's no way for anyone to get their stuff back and that's too bad but not making any effort to contact people with outstanding store credit or armies trying to be sold through the store or preorders waiting to be fulfilled and continuing to take money right up to the sudden closing is just wrong. I don't care how onerous his lease was, it doesn't matter if he was forbidden from advertising a going out of business fire sale, it would be unheard of and unenforcible for his lease to stipulate that he couldn't send a simple email out letting people know they needed to use their store credit or they'd likely lose it or that they should pick up the models/armies they were trying to sell through the store. It really strains credulity to think that Rob woke up that morning thinking that the store would continue to operate as normal but was shuttered for good by the end of the day.

I had an account with SpikeyBits, I hadn't ordered anything in over a year since I got out of 40K and found better priced bits on ebay and I never had any bad experiences with SpikeyBits. After this mess I'm not going to risk my money doing business with him again.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I find it really interesting/odd how many people misunderstood my previous comment in the thread. I'll rebreak it down:

-Judgedoug mentioned having personal experience and close friends burned by this guy in the past.
-New poster comes in, calling him out-how dare he malign Rob, "who is he to..."
-I say that a member who has been here for a long time and has "proven himself" is more trusted than a brand new person trying to shout him down
-I'm inclined to believe Doug over new poster
-I don't know Rob from Adam (the Biblical one, that is). I have nothing against him, personally. But I'm going to pay more attention to the poster who has been here long term than I am to the poster who has been here three days.

I don't see what's so difficult about that.

To break it down further applying your own principles, we should look at the number of positive comments about the store/owner, and compare them to the negative. So, the positives, with a wide range of post counts:-

 Darkness wrote:
I got reimbursed this morning for items I had ordered last week. I am sure everyone else who ordered/preordered did as well

 juraigamer wrote:
Even as I was one of the 4 primary employees directly under the owner of the LLC that oversaw both FTW Games and Spikey Bits, I didn't know this was happening until I showed up for work this week. Needless to say, I'm not happy.

I shall be sad to see the storefront and to a lesser extent the online business end. It was a great store that every FLGS aspires to be......there are a handful of spiteful people in the area that hate the owner out of their own ignorance. While he's a decent fellow, everyone has their bad days. Their hate is more than likely related to a small group in the area and the non-store/business drama from well before the store opened.

 Musashi363 wrote:
Personally I've had nothing but good experiences with FTW and Rob. He seemed like a great guy like the rest of his staff. It sucks that I got screwed with my pre order (and the exclusive mini that came with it) but the store closing and great people losing their jobs sucks way worse. Thanks for making the last four years rock FTW.

 MWHistorian wrote:
I don't believe there was any shady wrong doing by Rob at all. It was hands down the best FLGS I've ever seen.

 Stevefamine wrote:
Rob is a stand up guy, he's in a rough spo here

The majority of people ITT and the other thread that are harping on him never actually had IRL dealings with him

 Dozer Blades wrote:
I've known Rob a long time and he is a class act. I wish the best for him.

To oppose which I've seen one long time user who has several bitter experiences with the store owner, one person with only a few posts calling him out over the store credit thing, and one person who had a bad web transaction.

Evidence wise, it would appear to be an exceptionally premature stage at which to start siding one way or the other. However, if the post I've copied below is accurate, then it would appear to be a non-issue.

Darkness wrote:They knew they were in trouble, yes, they did not know it would have to be with bankruptcy though until the end. Had they simply been able to just close, they could have done a fire sale and recouped money and refunded orders.

This is not simply a store closing but an actual bankruptcy. 99% of the time when a game store closes, the owner just closes shop, as opposed to having to hire a lawyer and go to court.

I may feel it is untrue, but the bankruptcy hearing that is to come and the lease say otherwise.