I want it to be Skaven, and I am seeing 50/50 on either Skaven or Elf alliance....


Either way, what are YOU guys wanting? new lords, new units, what kind of fluff will be added?


Personally, I want to see a Horned Rat model for Skaven

Well the Skaven really don't have anyone to align with so I am thinking and elf alliance, also I have read rumors that the third book will be called Khaine so that make me think it will focus on the elves but I also have heard it will also have a focus on the Skaven... so maybe a Skaven invasion of Ulthuan.

I did hear rumors of Slaanesh dark elves in the second book but I don't think that's happening so maybe they will be in the third book, For lords I think we will see a new Teclis on a dragon, a new Tyrion a new Malekith on black dragon and new Morathi. For new lords not sure but the way it seems to be is to introduce new lords on large mounts that cost over 500 points.
For the Skaven I'm thinking new Thanqual and new plague furnace/screaming bell. As from new lord they don't rally have a lot of mounts to use but forge world does have a giant rat called a Brood Horror so maybe a new lord riding one of those. I don't rally see a model for the Horned rat but maybe a new big named Vermin lord instead.

Pox Rat cavalry would make me happy. And always some more Eshin and Skyrye toys and units.

I couldn't see High Elves working with Dark Elves, even to stop negash or chaos, Teclis and Tyrion dont really get along with malekith, not everything needs to team up so I imagine skavan could be next or maybe like the human realm of empire and brittonia. could be anything really.

 ChaosxVoid wrote:
I couldn't see High Elves working with Dark Elves, even to stop negash or chaos, Teclis and Tyrion dont really get along with malekith.

Except...

alex87 wrote:

 ChaosxVoid wrote:
I couldn't see High Elves working with Dark Elves, even to stop negash or chaos, Teclis and Tyrion dont really get along with malekith.

Except...

Spoiler:

It has already been heavily implied that Teclis and Malekith are working together to some end in Book 1 of The End Times...

Fixed your spoiler for you

But you are correct. I'd love to see elves allied together. by which I mean I don't because the amount of gak that can be broken by combining the 3 would be redonculous.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
Fixed your spoiler for you

Ahh, good catch

alex87 wrote:

 ChaosxVoid wrote:
I couldn't see High Elves working with Dark Elves, even to stop negash or chaos, Teclis and Tyrion dont really get along with malekith.

Except...

Spoiler:

It has already been heavily implied that Tyrion and Malekith are working together to some end in Book 1 of The End Times...

Daaayarn really, I wasn't able to read the first book at all, that could be cool as heck then.

I am hoping for Skaven but like others have said they aren't going to align themselves with anyone.
They will be in the end times tho because didn't they destroy a big city already?

They will rise up and try and take over (which will probably fail let's be honest its skaven lol) and if they do get a book it will probably have a new vermin lord model.
I'm not sure what others models they could come up with but I doubt they will release any eshin models (just my opinion)

As long as skaven eventually get a book and get a big giant nice plastic vermin lord model I'd be happy. Not like I'd ever use the vermin lord model but still I am tempted to buy the exalted vermin lord from forge world so we will see what gw comes up with lol

All day at work today I was wondering what the elves could get that was massive, and my wishes say khaine (i know the blood coven thing has a khaine lookin thing, what do you guys think, for any army really it seems everyone's gonna get something huge

 ChaosxVoid wrote:
All day at work today I was wondering what the elves could get that was massive, and my wishes say khaine (i know the blood coven thing has a khaine lookin thing, what do you guys think, for any army really it seems everyone's gonna get something huge

If it's HE centric, I'd expect either a massive Dragon (think something the size of Indraugnir, Anaerion's dragon) that's woken for the final throwdown, or perhaps a large flying Warship, like the Skycutter but a full-on battleship version. Failing that, I imagine there will probably be a dual/triple kit that updates any two+ of Tyrion/Teclis/Malekith/Morathi on Dragons.

 Paradigm wrote:

 ChaosxVoid wrote:
All day at work today I was wondering what the elves could get that was massive, and my wishes say khaine (i know the blood coven thing has a khaine lookin thing, what do you guys think, for any army really it seems everyone's gonna get something huge

If it's HE centric, I'd expect either a massive Dragon (think something the size of Indraugnir, Anaerion's dragon) that's woken for the final throwdown, or perhaps a large flying Warship, like the Skycutter but a full-on battleship version. Failing that, I imagine there will probably be a dual/triple kit that updates any two+ of Tyrion/Teclis/Malekith/Morathi on Dragons.

Dude, you know how cool a warship would be! though a huge dragon too would be cool as much as I like tyrion and teclis I'm hoping for more "generic" big things, cant wait for what the future will hold, now excuse me while I dream of a magical khaine character lol

I am curious, even though it would be completely absurd.... what if they did Skaven & Lizardmen?

 ChaosxVoid wrote:


Dude, you know how cool a warship would be! though a huge dragon too would be cool as much as I like tyrion and teclis I'm hoping for more "generic" big things, cant wait for what the future will hold, now excuse me while I dream of a magical khaine character lol

It'll be a dual-purpose kit that will make either the new Ariel/Everqueen conglomorate entity or a feminine Avatar of Khaine in his aspect as the Prophet of Doom / Beansidhe.

Then the Morgoth-equivalent will make either Naieth on Thandalor, Teclis on a Super-phoenix, or Morathi on some Naggarothi equivalent.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 ChaosxVoid wrote:


Dude, you know how cool a warship would be! though a huge dragon too would be cool as much as I like tyrion and teclis I'm hoping for more "generic" big things, cant wait for what the future will hold, now excuse me while I dream of a magical khaine character lol

It'll be a dual-purpose kit that will make either the new Ariel/Everqueen conglomorate entity or a feminine Avatar of Khaine in his aspect as the Prophet of Doom / Beansidhe.

Then the Morgoth-equivalent will make either Naieth on Thandalor, Teclis on a Super-phoenix, or Morathi on some Naggarothi equivalent.

No. You've all got it wrong.

It's a warlock character with loremastery of death and dark, riding a frostheart Phoenix.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 ChaosxVoid wrote:


Dude, you know how cool a warship would be! though a huge dragon too would be cool as much as I like tyrion and teclis I'm hoping for more "generic" big things, cant wait for what the future will hold, now excuse me while I dream of a magical khaine character lol

It'll be a dual-purpose kit that will make either the new Ariel/Everqueen conglomorate entity or a feminine Avatar of Khaine in his aspect as the Prophet of Doom / Beansidhe.

Then the Morgoth-equivalent will make either Naieth on Thandalor, Teclis on a Super-phoenix, or Morathi on some Naggarothi equivalent.

dude! I would absolutely friggin LOVE a feminine avatar all burny and killy good

I'm kind of expecting to see a heavy emphasis on the Sea Helm and Fleetmaster elements of Dark Elves/High Elves.

There keep being hints dropped about "watching for ships on the horizon" and I can easily see them releasing a monstrous mount in the form of a Merwyrm or some kind of Sea Drake for Sea Helms and Fleetmasters, and maybe finally see a boxed set release of Lothern Sea Guard.

As i posted in the main rumour thread i heard the third book will be an elves book called Khaine - with the return of slannesh cults, and khorne invaiding Naggaroth.

what do i want - not to fussed have played Skaven and High Elves before and dont really want to go back there. Me i just want a new Bret book and might then pick them up!

I'm almost positive next book will be End TImes: (Something Appropriately Ratty)


I am hoping that End TImes IV provides us with Elves Undivided in the same vein of Legions of Undeath and Chaos. Because the Haughty High, Dandylion eating Wood, and Sadistic Dark Elf in me will squeal with joy.

I also think that Fateweavers warning to Archaon on the last page of ET:II refers to an elf, and that elf i bet is going to end up wielding the widowmaker. And if that's the case, Captain 3-eyed King should be worried.

This would also make an appropriately disgusting 800-1000 point "thing" for the elves.


What i'm more wondering is 1) when will the other chaos gods get some End Times love, and 2) what about the hodge-podge races - Lizzies, Ogres, etc. Lizzies are apparently beaming up to the mother ship, but i call BS on this, as LM are a well selling army and a uniquely easy to defend IP. Ogres get like a half page mention about half of them marching north, and the others marking west. Interesting to see what they do there.

-- Haight

 Haight wrote:
I'm almost positive next book will be End TImes: (Something Appropriately Ratty)

Actually, I think Skaven won't show up until book IV.

Right now we have Archaon sailing the biggest raiding force that the Empire has seen since the days of Sigmar straight at the combined forces of the Empire and a Bretonnian Errantry Crusade.
Cutting over to Skaven out of nowhere would be kind of silly.

I am hoping that End TImes IV provides us with Elves Undivided in the same vein of Legions of Undeath and Chaos. Because the Haughty High, Dandylion eating Wood, and Sadistic Dark Elf in me will squeal with joy.

You are probably looking at High Elves and Dark Elves, with no Wood Elf involvement...unless we get a book which has some Bretonnia and Athel Loren focus.

Which actually would work continuing out of Glottkin since the Beastmen and the Northerners who survived Altdorf have fled into the Drakwald and are fleeing as fast and as hard as they can.

I also think that Fateweavers warning to Archaon on the last page of ET:II refers to an elf, and that elf i bet is going to end up wielding the widowmaker. And if that's the case, Captain 3-eyed King should be worried.

I would say that Karl Franz does not exactly count as "a man" anymore, wouldn't you?

This would also make an appropriately disgusting 800-1000 point "thing" for the elves.

I'm really not sure what we are going to see for the Elves to be honest.

I could see some "Ascendant" style stats for Teclis, Tyrion, and Malekith. I could also see a really nasty double kit of a Sea Helm and a Fleetmaster mounted on a Merwyrm.

What i'm more wondering is 1) when will the other chaos gods get some End Times love, and 2) what about the hodge-podge races - Lizzies, Ogres, etc. Lizzies are apparently beaming up to the mother ship, but i call BS on this, as LM are a well selling army and a uniquely easy to defend IP.

Lizardmen are in a kind of unique situation. They are uniquely the defenders of the world from the Warp and its denizens...but things have gotten so bad that it might very well be a lost cause for them to even try.

Not to mention that the Lizardmen are probably going to be having to deal with Skaven going crazy under their feet, as the Skaven have gone after Lustria and its temple cities before.
I would not expect to see armies squatted from this though.

I think it's GOT to be "good guys" though, right? I mean, things are looking very grimdark for the Old World right now.

Quite a departure from the old days of GW when Fantasy was funny and goofy, rather than sad and depressing. Thanks a bunch, Game of Thrones.

Unified elves? Yes please. 8 bolt throwers in my fast cav+ Pegasus dark elf list.

I'm not really sure where people get the idea that Skaven will feature a big part in the events of the End Times. From book one onward they're basically just a footnote, much like the Ogres, Orcs n Goblins, Lizardmen, and Dwarves. Book 2 actually had quite a few points where they could have written the Skaven in, they do after all inhabit the space below and have a known presence in several of the cities that Glottkin just wrecked, yet they never popped up in any of them.

Events thus far seem to revolve around Elves, Humans, Chaos, and Undead, and it just so happens that these are the races of 'plurality' in that they all have multiple books/subfactions.

Anyway, fluffwise, we're left with the understanding that the rest of Archaons forces, of which Glottkins force only comprised a small fraction, is headed south. We know for sure that they're headed for the Old World, we also have suggestions from book one that the Elves are facing chaotic incursions in Naggaroth and Ulthuan. We also have a pretty good idea that Nagash is headed north to meet this force in battle, with the Empire/Brettonia basically caught in the middle. We also know that Brettonias military forces are basically spent at this point, and somewhere between 1/4 -1/2 (I forget the precise fraction given in the book) of the Empires population and lands are now gone, in other words - they don't have the capability to resist Archaon, they dont have the capability to resist Nagash, and they sure as hell don't have the capability to resist both at the same time in an epic three way battle.

What I expect is that Book 3 and Book 4 will be roughly parallel stories similar to Book 1/ Book 2 (if I understand the timeline correctly, its basically Book 1 starts -> Book 2 starts -> Book 1 ends -> Book 2 ends, with a pretty significant overlap between the two).

I expect Book 3 will detail Archaons invasion of the Old World, followed by Nagash's counter-invasion, and the desperate battle for survivable fought by the remnants of the Empire and Brettonia, likely featuring some earth-shattering geo-political changes culminating with the union of Brettonia and the Empire into a common kingdom under Emperor Karl Franz (who, you will note, is now effectively a living deity). I would not expect to see a real resolution to the Nagash/Archaon/Human three-way battle however, instead expect to see humans get thoroughly trounced and destroyed in every way imaginable to the point where the continued survival of the human race is at stake. The book will end with the sight of elven sails on the horizon.

I expect to see further rules for non-Nurgle Chaos forces (which is stupid since that means that the Legions list in Book 2 is incomplete), as well as a heavy focus on Empire/Brettonia characters , including a list for the new combined armies of man.

Book 4, I expect, will start at roughly the same time as Book 3, and detail the battles and intrigues of High Elves and Dark Elves in their respective theaters, a major plot twist/revelation and their resulting unholy alliance with one another for survival, their defeat of the chaos invaders and their relief of the remaining humans by way of their combined forces coming to the rescue (as well as bailing out the wood elves in the process).

Rules wise I'd expect a rehash of various elven characters/units, probably a new take on the current dark elf 'establishment' (what did you expect Malekith and Morathi to just roll over and reunite with the others?), and a new list featuring all three elf nations under new management with a likely distinct new flavor to it so that GW can differentiate from other fantasy elves for IP purposes.

I would actually not be surprised to see a 5th book released which ties up some loose ends with the remaining 5 factions. Skaven are a pretty distinct IP, Ogres and Lizardmen are borderline, but the Orcs and Dwarves are generic enough that it might give GW some trouble. Everything indicates they are trying to 'tighten things up' and make things more distinctive where possible, so expect to see some changes here and there. I expect Skaven will remain largely as is, and the remaining 4 will all receive some fluff alterations so that they can be appropriately renamed and slightly restyled as necessary.

I really hope book three combines High, Dark and Wood elves. Seriously would be perfect. I chose WE in the end but looking at DE and HE there's so many cool models. I'd love to do a big elf monster mash army, dragons, hydra, Treemen, Kharibdyss, Eagles, manticores, etc.

I wouldn't be totally shocked if the story is unresolved and they continue it further in 9th edition.

Combined elves just terrifies me. Each is bad enough on their own, but combining all those tool boxes together is just gonna be stupid amounts of broken.

Like I said, if we see "combined Elves"?

I do not think it will be Wood Elves+High Elves+Dark Elves. I think it will just be High Elves and Dark Elves, seeing as how it is Malekith working with Teclis.

Although I guess I could see a second Combined Elves list which is Wood Elves and High Elves, led by Tyrion and the Everqueen...

The one thing I dislike about the combined books is the lack of any negatives to taking the list. You can completely mix any units, any heros, ect. You can combine the best of tk with vc and same for chaos. There really is no drawback for not taking the legions over an individual book. I think there needs to be some kind of penalty to doing so simply because now theres no reason what so ever to take just the vc book or just the WoC book over the legions.

Wishlist:

Dwarven Organ-Gun Blimp model and rules, similar to how Empire received their new toy in Super Saiyan Franz.

Some sort of Naestra and Arahan update, as to me they are the most interesting characters in WFB lore.

Legions of Humanity, of some sort, including Kislev - Bretts - and Empire.

A re-establishment of HE/Dwarf alliances of the past.

A temporary WE/DE alliance.

A rebel skaven warlord, Abraham Sqeakin, issues an emancipation proclamation, and slaves are disallowed in all future skaven armies.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Like I said, if we see "combined Elves"?

I do not think it will be Wood Elves+High Elves+Dark Elves. I think it will just be High Elves and Dark Elves, seeing as how it is Malekith working with Teclis.

Although I guess I could see a second Combined Elves list which is Wood Elves and High Elves, led by Tyrion and the Everqueen...

I disagree, Dark Elves and High Elves are both good sellers, Wood Elves are the weak man in the room and the faction that needs to be propped up the most, ergo it stands to reason that they are the ones that will be combined, if any. The fact that Malekith and Teclis are working together, plus the whole Darkblade plotline leads me to believe that there will be a conjoining of Dark and High Elves as well. The end result of this would be a three way union rather than two two-way unions.

The one thing I dislike about the combined books is the lack of any negatives to taking the list. You can completely mix any units, any heros, ect. You can combine the best of tk with vc and same for chaos. There really is no drawback for not taking the legions over an individual book. I think there needs to be some kind of penalty to doing so simply because now theres no reason what so ever to take just the vc book or just the WoC book over the legions.

I would expect that if and when they get around to updating Fantasy you would see a great rebalancing of the combined forces.

Legions of Humanity, of some sort, including Kislev - Bretts - and Empire.

One could only hope that Kislev would be brought in, although with the revelation that Kislev has ceased to exist it doesn't seem likely. I had hoped we might see a return of the Dogs of War/Regiments of Renown and perhaps some Estalia/Tilea/Araby/Nihon/Cathay/Ind influences, etc. but with the revelation that Estalia and Tilea are now evidently Skaven-land, it seems unlikely as well.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Like I said, if we see "combined Elves"?

I do not think it will be Wood Elves+High Elves+Dark Elves. I think it will just be High Elves and Dark Elves, seeing as how it is Malekith working with Teclis.

Although I guess I could see a second Combined Elves list which is Wood Elves and High Elves, led by Tyrion and the Everqueen...

I disagree, Dark Elves and High Elves are both good sellers, Wood Elves are the weak man in the room and the faction that needs to be propped up the most, ergo it stands to reason that they are the ones that will be combined, if any. The fact that Malekith and Teclis are working together, plus the whole Darkblade plotline leads me to believe that there will be a conjoining of Dark and High Elves as well. The end result of this would be a three way union rather than two two-way unions.

The one thing I dislike about the combined books is the lack of any negatives to taking the list. You can completely mix any units, any heros, ect. You can combine the best of tk with vc and same for chaos. There really is no drawback for not taking the legions over an individual book. I think there needs to be some kind of penalty to doing so simply because now theres no reason what so ever to take just the vc book or just the WoC book over the legions.

I would expect that if and when they get around to updating Fantasy you would see a great rebalancing of the combined forces.

Legions of Humanity, of some sort, including Kislev - Bretts - and Empire.

One could only hope that Kislev would be brought in, although with the revelation that Kislev has ceased to exist it doesn't seem likely. I had hoped we might see a return of the Dogs of War/Regiments of Renown and perhaps some Estalia/Tilea/Araby/Nihon/Cathay/Ind influences, etc. but with the revelation that Estalia and Tilea are now evidently Skaven-land, it seems unlikely as well.

I am hoping that the combined armies will be rebalanced but knowing gw balance isnt their forte.

I could see kislev being brought into an army of man even though kislev was destroyed there are still kislev armies still out there. I highly doubt it though because they wont make any kislev minitures so thats out....

If they do skaven it'll probably be skaven with orcs and goblins. You guys remember the goblin wars (think that's the name) which included all green skins as well as skaven.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
If they do skaven it'll probably be skaven with orcs and goblins. You guys remember the goblin wars (think that's the name) which included all green skins as well as skaven.

I could see a split book involving all the "neutral" factions such as OnG, skaven, and OK but i doubt the orcs and ogres will get much play in the grand scheme of things. Hopefully that with something this big nothing is left out.

I'm sort of surprised they didn't do a beastmen, skaven and O&G book actually. They're the most inhuman of the factions. Possibly lizardmen, skaven and O&G will happen then.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I'm sort of surprised they didn't do a beastmen, skaven and O&G book actually. They're the most inhuman of the factions.

Perhaps, but the Beastmen serve the Chaos Gods. They are the Children of Chaos, after all.

Well it's odd to me because skaven have fought alongside greenskins even if for a bit but i don't know of skaven or greenskins aligning themselves with lizardmen. I always thought lizardmen hated outsiders. Not to mention according to the skaven one greater clan nearly destroyed the lizardmen. Not sure if that's true or the skaven army book throwing it out in the skaven's perspective.

Perhaps two factions is enough for one book? I mean the first was just vampire counts and tomb kings. When you think about it 2 is probably enough for a book.

Then one book will be dedicated to the human empires/kingdoms and possibly dwarfs. Elves get a book or possibly they do a high elf, dwarf and empire book. Then they do a wood elf and bretonnia book. In that case i wouldn't know where to pair the dark elves (with skaven?). Ogres could also pair up with O&G so it's hard to say.

I dunno i still say skaven and O&G makes the most sense for them. The skaven have fought with the greenskins before and after the fight one side betrays the other. Orcs are dull as the skaven book says but goblins are more clever.

As far as the Elves book goes (whether that's book 3 or not I have no idea), it wouldn't be beyond belief that they will combine all three factions.

There's mention in Nagash that a certain God(dess) opened up a portal for Araloth and his army to go through to help where the elves need it most.

So assuming he had one of each unit in his army at the time, then the wood elves could easily be rolled into the new combined elf book.

I think if you're expecting Skaven/Dwarves/Ogres/Orcs to get much love out of this you're going to be pretty disappointed (sad because I collect Ogres and Skaven).

Yeah, I agree. I can't really see Skaven/Orcs/Ogres being mixed together in any combination.

They are too independant with similar goals but differing methods. Whereas the undead was a simple combination with the arrival of Nagash. Chaos is back where it was before, and the elves once shared a history and now share a semi-common goal (in the continuation of their race).

But Skaven, Orcs and Ogres, while potentially temporary allies at times, have such different belief systems that I can't see them working together enough to have their own combined book.
Unless its an "enemies of everyone else" book

Ogres will be the last book. When they finally eat everyone, and then the Maw eats the entire world.

Stay hungry my friends

What I find funny is all the people saying "oh noes, it doesn't make sense to mix Skavens, OnG, Ogres and such together, there's no ground for it!"
While at the same time "oh yeah, Dark and High Elves, the two races that hate each other the most, even more than Skavens and LM. Now THAT makes total sense, of course !"

Unlike Ogres, Orcs, Dwarves, Skaven, and Lizardmen, the elven intrigue has been a major element of the plot thus far. GW can make it make sense, its their setting after all.

 TanKoL wrote:
What I find funny is all the people saying "oh noes, it doesn't make sense to mix Skavens, OnG, Ogres and such together, there's no ground for it!"
While at the same time "oh yeah, Dark and High Elves, the two races that hate each other the most, even more than Skavens and LM. Now THAT makes total sense, of course !"

It's not a question of "Dark and High Elves".

It's Malekith(also known as "The Witch King of Naggaroth" and the direct son of Aenarion, the first Phoenix King) and his distant relative Teclis(the Archmage of Saphery, also of the line of Aenarion) that are collaborating to ensure that Nagash and the other forces fighting Chaos are able to do so.

Both of those individuals will command a lot of loyalty from members of their respective races. It would not be unlikely to see the non-Khainite Cult units that are sworn to Malekith(the Warriors, Black Guard, Cold One Knights, Dreadlords and Masters, etc) make an appearance with their equivalent units in the High Elf list that can reasonably be associated with Hoeth(Spearmen/Archers, Silver Helms, Swordmasters, Great Eagles, Archmages/Mages and the Loremasters).

Not unbelievable as well that the Phoenix Guard could make an appearance since they're sworn to Asuryan and not any one Phoenix King.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Triple_double_U wrote:
As far as the Elves book goes (whether that's book 3 or not I have no idea), it wouldn't be beyond belief that they will combine all three factions.

There's mention in Nagash that a certain God(dess) opened up a portal for Araloth and his army to go through to help where the elves need it most.

So assuming he had one of each unit in his army at the time, then the wood elves could easily be rolled into the new combined elf book.

There's a reason why I've been suggesting that we might see TWO different Elf lists rather than one.

Araloth and his forces were waylaid by Lileath, the Elven Goddess of Dreams and Fortune. Lileath is pretty closely tied to the High Elves rather than the Wood or Dark Elves, but it's also worth noting that Lileath is more commonly associated with the Shadow Warriors and Alith-Anar despite Teclis bearing one of the three gifts she gave to the Elves.

I think it will either be Skaven (in which case it would be great for some new weird rat mutations to be released) or High Elves (my favourite Warhammer army!) in which it would be great for a new Lord or Hero model to be released that competes with the likes of Nagash and The Glottkin.

You also need to remember at the end of the day elves are still elves. You may hate your brother, but hes still your brother. If anyone else tries to pick on him you're gonna kick that guys ass.

The DE & HE disagree on one main thing. Who should rule. The DE feel cheated, and betrayed that the rightful king is not on the throne.

To put in in perspective. Both the Athens and Sparta didn't really like each other. They fought a lot. But they were both greeks. When the persians came they set aside their difference of oppinions to fight the common enemy.

So combined elves can make sense story wise. I just feel the power level would be utterly insane. "Oh look I'll just walk between worlds this witch elf horde right behind you..." Now eat 8 bolt throwers.

One can only hope that Malekith betrays Teclis and the Dark Elves don't sell out by joining the High Elves.

There would be too much unnecessary overlap to merge them together. It would make sense to put armies capable of complimenting one another in respective alliances (but I'm not an expert in the fluff, so i'm sure it'd take some creativity there).

One can only hope for more diversity.

wfr12n wrote:
One can only hope that Malekith betrays Teclis and the Dark Elves don't sell out by joining the High Elves.

There are a lot of warring factions within the Dark Elf society.

Malekith has some forces that are for all intents and purposes loyal to him, and only to him. The Black Guard and those Dreadlords and Masters who started their rise to power among the ranks of his Black Guard are far from being a minority. Add to it that the rank and file seem to still look up to him as he is still the son of Aenarion and that makes for a big cult of personality centered around Malekith.

But then you have the Khainite faction, who are loyal to Hellebron. The Witch Elves, the Executioners, and the Khainite Assassins all fall under this umbrella. I'd also put the various cities of Naggaroth and their rulers along with the Fleetmasters in this umbrella as they would have forces and resources loyal only to them.

And then finally you have Morathi, Malekith's mother. Ostensibly she is loyal to Malekith but as the fluff we've had on the relationship between the two is elaborated, you have it coming out that she is building up a power base for herself among the Northern tribes and trying to refound the Pleasure Cults within Naggaroth.

There would be too much unnecessary overlap to merge them together. It would make sense to put armies capable of complimenting one another in respective alliances (but I'm not an expert in the fluff, so i'm sure it'd take some creativity there).
One can only hope for more diversity.

Honestly there is very little in the way of "diversity" with the lists we have gotten so far, but it does open up some new ways to play.

How that would work with the Elves? I don't know for sure.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

So combined elves can make sense story wise. I just feel the power level would be utterly insane. "Oh look I'll just walk between worlds this witch elf horde right behind you..." Now eat 8 bolt throwers.

You've got it all wrong! It's a dragon prince banner of the world dragon bus. backed up by 6-8 bolt throwers, frosties, warlocks and dark riders.

Y'all are aware that there are still restrictions on the number of special/rare choices you can take, right?

also, dont forget darkblade ,word on the street there may be a prophecy about him usurping the Dark Elf throne.

Kanluwen wrote:Like I said, if we see "combined Elves"?

I do not think it will be Wood Elves+High Elves+Dark Elves. I think it will just be High Elves and Dark Elves, seeing as how it is Malekith working with Teclis.

Although I guess I could see a second Combined Elves list which is Wood Elves and High Elves, led by Tyrion and the Everqueen...

Here's how I reckon they'll get the Wood elves involved with the Malekith/Teclis alliance:

Alarielle has vanished. She's vanished into her wood, which as we know, is mystically linked to Athel Loren.

Alarielle is communing with Isha (Ariel). They will, at some point, re-emerge as a combined avatar, providing the Elves with their Nagash/Glottkin kit. This then leaves Malekith, Teclis and (hopefully Naieth, but probably Alaroth) as their Morghast/Maggoth kit.

That would make sense...if Teclis was not keeping his alliance with Malekith secret from Tyrion.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Y'all are aware that there are still restrictions on the number of special/rare choices you can take, right?

also, dont forget darkblade ,word on the street there may be a prophecy about him usurping the Dark Elf throne.

Yeah. Two units of warlocks at 125 apiece, and a frosty at 230-odd.

 Kanluwen wrote:
That would make sense...if Teclis was not keeping his alliance with Malekith secret from Tyrion.

Ah.

Not unsustainable, but sigh. Maybe the Wood Elven influence will have Alarielle simply tell Tyrion to suck it up once he finds out?

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
That would make sense...if Teclis was not keeping his alliance with Malekith secret from Tyrion.

Ah.

Not unsustainable, but sigh. Maybe the Wood Elven influence will have Alarielle simply tell Tyrion to suck it up once he finds out?

Or alternatively we have the start of another Sundering...

... thought.

Maybe the reason Forest Spirits got nerfed in the Wood Elf book, and Wildwood Rangers are a general military thing now, is because they're planning a Forest Spirits End Times army led by Coeddil and Drycha as the Wildwood bursts its boundaries and joins up with the Forces of Disorder in a rebellion against the ancient compacts?

This forces the Wood Elves to join up with the High Elves or some other Forces of Order army just to survive, and of course, being Neutrals, whoever they side with is going to have someone now whispering in their ear that some Disorder things are worth delving into for the power to protect their homes...

I keep thinking that, if the Elven armies were combined, then the overlap in elite-infantry-that-dies-fast camp would be incredible. I mean, you have essentially 8 or 9 variations on that one concept to choose from at that point. Not to mention the same situation for fast cavalry and heavy cavalry, though to a far lesser extent.

I would really love to add an autumnal coloured Treeman model to my High Elves, though. And Warlocks, but I'd only ever use them against a regular opponent who abused the hell out of them before he sold his Dark Elves...

I don't care. I'm kitbashing all of my elves. Elven supremacy!!!

 Charles Rampant wrote:
I keep thinking that, if the Elven armies were combined, then the overlap in elite-infantry-that-dies-fast camp would be incredible. I mean, you have essentially 8 or 9 variations on that one concept to choose from at that point. Not to mention the same situation for fast cavalry and heavy cavalry, though to a far lesser extent.

How would that be different from the current Undead or Legions of Chaos lists?

Other than Tomb Guard/Grave Guard and rank-file skeletons, there really isn't much overlap.

The units in each book are markedly different from each other.

Snakemen, Catapuls, and Sphinx are nothing like Terrorgheists Black Knights, Crypt Horrors.

Even the generic Kings and Princes are not at all like the generic Vampires.

Everything in HE and DE have a strict "high / dark " elf version for the most part.

I dunno, IMO the units are pretty different from eachother, the diff between hatred and ASF makes a world of difference in how the units actually perform on the tabletop. Beyond that, High Elves tend to be more melee-centric while Dark elves tend to be more of a gunline, but thats just IMO.

but DE have hatred AND ASF. You're thinking martial prowess.

chaos0xomega wrote:
I dunno, IMO the units are pretty different from eachother, the diff between hatred and ASF makes a world of difference in how the units actually perform on the tabletop. Beyond that, High Elves tend to be more melee-centric while Dark elves tend to be more of a gunline, but thats just IMO.

Dark elf units win in the mirror match due to hatred. And Murderous prowess.

Oh forgot about that one.

IN any case, after revisiting some of the End Times fluff (and some research on other things), I'm revising my prediction:

Book 3 will feature Archaon and Skaven attacking whats left of humanity, as well as some events elsewhere, the list there will be the Empire/Brettonia combo.

Book 4 will be the Elves getting their gak together, possibly assisted by some Lizards, and (kinda but not really) saving the world, and will feature a combined elf list - I'm reasonably sure all the Elves will be united under new leadership, though I suspect that some units will be 'pruned' from this list (one example is that the End Times implies - outright states really - that everything in Ulthuan that wasn't an elf was corrupted into a Chaos monstrosity, so things like Lions of Chrace would cease to exist).

chaos0xomega wrote:
(one example is that the End Times implies - outright states really - that everything in Ulthuan that wasn't an elf was corrupted into a Chaos monstrosity, so things like Lions of Chrace would cease to exist).

I don't recall this bit, especially since Eltharion's griffon and that other princess chick's horsey was fine, where abouts was it?

Errr.... Id give you a page number if the page had a number? lol, its one of the first few pages of Book 1 of Nagash, 2nd paragraph, its the page specifically dealing with the high elves, right after the dark elves. Has an elven rune on it, first words are "On Ulthuan".

Second paragraph references that on a night with red lightning wild magic flowed throughout Ulthuan warping creatures and trees with the energy of chaos. Towards the end it says "Of all Ulthuans creatures only the elves were unaffected."

chaos0xomega wrote:
Errr.... Id give you a page number if the page had a number? lol, its one of the first few pages of Book 1 of Nagash, 2nd paragraph, its the page specifically dealing with the high elves, right after the dark elves. Has an elven rune on it, first words are "On Ulthuan".

Second paragraph references that on a night with red lightning wild magic flowed throughout Ulthuan warping creatures and trees with the energy of chaos. Towards the end it says "Of all Ulthuans creatures only the elves were unaffected."

That doesn't mean all creatures were turned. It just means all species other than elves were affected. That means there are probably other animals which are totally fine and no elf was mutated.

This is the importance of wording.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Errr.... Id give you a page number if the page had a number? lol, its one of the first few pages of Book 1 of Nagash, 2nd paragraph, its the page specifically dealing with the high elves, right after the dark elves. Has an elven rune on it, first words are "On Ulthuan".

Second paragraph references that on a night with red lightning wild magic flowed throughout Ulthuan warping creatures and trees with the energy of chaos. Towards the end it says "Of all Ulthuans creatures only the elves were unaffected."

It says that it was a mist moving across the land so I'd say that it probably gave enough time for the mages of Ulthuan to protect at least some areas of the island from the mist which is why their horses and stuff are fine.

Athough knowing GW
End times book III: No HE armies may take cav units, phoenixes, eagles or dragons, to represent that they all turned into chaos beats for the evulz.

Oh gak, shouldn't have given them any ideas lol.

Id assume the elves were somewhat successful as dragons and horses are referenced later in the book

 Krellnus wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Errr.... Id give you a page number if the page had a number? lol, its one of the first few pages of Book 1 of Nagash, 2nd paragraph, its the page specifically dealing with the high elves, right after the dark elves. Has an elven rune on it, first words are "On Ulthuan".

Second paragraph references that on a night with red lightning wild magic flowed throughout Ulthuan warping creatures and trees with the energy of chaos. Towards the end it says "Of all Ulthuans creatures only the elves were unaffected."

It says that it was a mist moving across the land so I'd say that it probably gave enough time for the mages of Ulthuan to protect at least some areas of the island from the mist which is why their horses and stuff are fine.

Athough knowing GW
End times book III: No HE armies may take cav units, phoenixes, eagles or dragons, to represent that they all turned into chaos beats for the evulz.

Oh gak, shouldn't have given them any ideas lol.

If only that were true in the case of the magical elf cavalry but no it isn't.

My money is on a an Empire and Bretonnian alliance. It's the most obvious one and, if GW are clever and position it carefully, either just before or just after a new Bretonnian book, it would boost sales for whichever one is released second.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see OnG with either Ogres or Skaven...

I keep trying to wrap my head around the OnG/Ogre/Skaven thing, none of it really makes sense given what we currently know about them. The Orks are waaaaghing, the Ogres are migrating (with Greasus declaring himself king of all Ogres), and the Skaven are... err... skavening. Besides that, Skaven are one of the better selling factions (and perhaps one of the most unique and defensible GW WHFB IP's, so I dont see the need for them to fold them into something else).

The only thing I can think of is that they go to a 5 book system:
Undead
Chaos
Elves
Humans
Unaligned Forces (OnG, Ogres, Dwarves, Skaven, Lizardmen)

chaos0xomega wrote:
Skaven are... err... skavening.

Uhhh, the horned rat has physically manifested himself & taken his place at the 13th seat on the council. This is HUGE as skaven are usually too busy infighting to do anything too serious but if the horned rat is here they could likely be united.

While it is shrouded in mystery as of yet, this isn't just "skavening" this is huge. Like A GOD has physically manifested himself in the world huge.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Skaven are... err... skavening.

Uhhh, the horned rat has physically manifested himself & taken his place at the 13th seat on the council. This is HUGE as skaven are usually too busy infighting to do anything too serious but if the horned rat is here they could likely be united.

While it is shrouded in mystery as of yet, this isn't just "skavening" this is huge. Like A GOD has physically manifested himself in the world huge.

You mean like Nagash or Sigmar.

Nagash and Sigmar are heroic mortals returned from the grave (Fate/Stay Night reference? nah).

The Horned Rat was never a mortal, it's more along the lines of Isha or Tzeentch.

Not sure if GW is still aware of G&O being a thing.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Nagash and Sigmar are heroic mortals returned from the grave (Fate/Stay Night reference? nah).

The Horned Rat was never a mortal, it's more along the lines of Isha or Tzeentch.

In the tilean folktale that describes what happened to kavzar (it was destroyed by the cursed bell and holds utmost importance to the skaven creation) the strange wanderer was never really described. It could've been the horned rat under a mortal guise, it could've been a mortal with magical power or even a sort of underling of the horned rat (since i think the top of the tower he added a gift to his god). Point being perhaps the horned rat has become manifest at more than one point like a being with no true form.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Skaven are... err... skavening.

Uhhh, the horned rat has physically manifested himself & taken his place at the 13th seat on the council. This is HUGE as skaven are usually too busy infighting to do anything too serious but if the horned rat is here they could likely be united.

While it is shrouded in mystery as of yet, this isn't just "skavening" this is huge. Like A GOD has physically manifested himself in the world huge.

Wasn't even aware of that. I should probably read the fluff...

Edit: dammit, quoted the wrong quote. Sigh.


Here's the thing ; they're trying to unify up armies so the game is easier to update and maintain on the whole. Several of their corporate releases have stated strategic challenges with Warhammer are the sheer number of armies and the buy-in required to hook new players. They've alrady taken a huge first step towards reducing initial buyin costs ; raising hero %'s in list construction.

Regarding unification, It makes almost no sense to exclude wood elves unless they are going away in the future. Take a good long look at the new wood elf codex ; there is more of an emphasis than ever on wood elves being the balanced middle ground between the honorable but haughty high elves, and the tenacious but sadistic dark elves.

I think Elves Undivided will be a thing, and if it is, it will encompass all three flavors of elvendom. So far we have all the evidence to suggest a similar paradigm: Nagash unifies all the dead things, GLottkin unifies all the chaotic armies (meaning warriors, beasts, and demons - it even goes so far as to "extra chaosify" beastmen), if there was an elf book it stands to reason / stands up to occam's razor that it will unify all the elves.

Also note subtle wordings in rules like "if the majority of models in this unit are from this codex" Doesn't that wording raise your eyebrow a tad ? Isn't it odd that all elves now have ASF in addition their greater or lesser other unique rules ?


All roads point towards at least the ability to unify all flavors much like Legions of Chaos or Legions of Undeath.

Hmmm... I just can't see anything bringing the three Elven armies together. Having Wood Elves able to ally with either of the other elven armies (but not both in the same list), I can see happening, and I'd be pretty happy with that and would probably buy some Wood Elves because of it, but Dark Elves and High Elves just hate each other too much for them to ever fight alongside each other.

Perhaps GW will do it, for purely financial/lazy reasons, but I would certainly not approve of the move. I think there are far more, sensible yet equally profitable combinations out there.

Neither the dark nor the high elves can truly be described as unified factions, Nagash book makes it pretty clear that there are various subfactions within the dark elves that would seek to overthrow malekith and/or other authority figures (and implies that he attempted to have his own mother killed during Valkias invasion). It also makes it pretty clear that the High Elves are currently fighting a civil war, with at least one region of Ulthuan fully seceding from the throne, as well as a heavy amount of intrigue going on (some implication that malekith is responsible for the death of Finubar with the assistance of certain high elf characters).

Beyond that its been said that the end result of the end times is to leave the warhammer world in a sort of post apocalyptic state. IIRC its stated that Brettonia has lost more than half of its civilian population and the majority of its military forces, and the Empire about a quarter civilian pop and half of its military. I would expect the elves to see something similar to that happen with the elves, leaving only a fragment of their former strength intact and forcing them to unite in a fight for survival.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/11/breaking-wfb-endtimes-khaine-is-coming.html


Interesting.


Not sure i believe the bit abotu "no models accompanying it". Or maybe i just don't want to believe it, heh.

Just saw that! KITBASHING my dreams into reality!!

 Haight wrote:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/11/breaking-wfb-endtimes-khaine-is-coming.html


Interesting.


Not sure i believe the bit abotu "no models accompanying it". Or maybe i just don't want to believe it, heh.

No models does seem somewhat unusual. It would be pretty easy for them to do an WHFB Avatar of Khaine (or similar) model as well. I can certainly see them doing more than 3 books though. From what I can tell, they've been a big hit all over, so there's no reason for GW to stop doing them when there's still material to be covered.

I was hoping to see all 4 Daemon armies get updated stuff, but I guess its only going to be Nurgle themed armies with new stuff.

They all need an update. Badly.

Its not like they cant add in non-nurgle stuff in the elves/humans books...

You will probably see Slaanesh in the rumored elves book. There were rumours of cult of slaanesh in book 2 but if book 3 is Kaine as rumours suggest you'll probably see it there.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
You will probably see Slaanesh in the rumored elves book. There were rumours of cult of slaanesh in book 2 but if book 3 is Kaine as rumours suggest you'll probably see it there.

Seeing lists for the cult of slaanesh and cult of kaine would be awesome. As the pattern is showing there will be some kind of unified elf army though. I just hope it fits some kind of theme though the legions of chaos and undead legions didnt really show too much theme they just smashed a few books together with no restrictions.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/11/wfb-end-times-upcoming-models-latest.html


BAM... Hastings seems to confirm that the earlier report of "no models" for End Times: Khaine is bs. It looks like Khaine is going to walk the old world again, and i'll bet he has his good old Widow-to-the-Maker with him.


Also cool minor notes about a new Dwarf Siege Engine thing, and plastic vermin lord... good stuff.


Sadly my poor Ogres continue to receive the shaft.


EDIT: oh yeah... and i'd be willing to bet Slaanesh will get some love in End Times: Khaine, if only in the form that DoC (Slaanesh) and DE will get a unity list... which would be pretty sweet actually.

 Haight wrote:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/11/wfb-end-times-upcoming-models-latest.html


BAM... Hastings seems to confirm that the earlier report of "no models" for End Times: Khaine is bs. It looks like Khaine is going to walk the old world again, and i'll bet he has his good old Widow-to-the-Maker with him.


Also cool minor notes about a new Dwarf Siege Engine thing, and plastic vermin lord... good stuff.


Sadly my poor Ogres continue to receive the shaft.


EDIT: oh yeah... and i'd be willing to bet Slaanesh will get some love in End Times: Khaine, if only in the form that DoC (Slaanesh) and DE will get a unity list... which would be pretty sweet actually.

Dont be so quick to think the ogres get the shaft.........with combined profiles for mounts the hunter on stonehorn becomes viable!!!! that is a big win for us ogre players

 Haight wrote:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/11/wfb-end-times-upcoming-models-latest.html


BAM... Hastings seems to confirm that the earlier report of "no models" for End Times: Khaine is bs. It looks like Khaine is going to walk the old world again, and i'll bet he has his good old Widow-to-the-Maker with him.


Also cool minor notes about a new Dwarf Siege Engine thing, and plastic vermin lord... good stuff.


Sadly my poor Ogres continue to receive the shaft.


EDIT: oh yeah... and i'd be willing to bet Slaanesh will get some love in End Times: Khaine, if only in the form that DoC (Slaanesh) and DE will get a unity list... which would be pretty sweet actually.

My money is on Khaine being an avatar.

I also want Caledor Dragontamer to come out of the vortex, as it's been established that he's not dead in there. They could also do something with the Prophecy of Demise then!

But seriously, don't unite elves folks. I already broke it if it happens.

For 2400: Loremaster on Frostheart, Caradryan on Frostheart. 600 points of Dark riders(5 units), 4 bolt throwers in special, 14 Wild Riders, and Bolt Throwers in rare.

 namiel wrote:

 Haight wrote:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/11/wfb-end-times-upcoming-models-latest.html


BAM... Hastings seems to confirm that the earlier report of "no models" for End Times: Khaine is bs. It looks like Khaine is going to walk the old world again, and i'll bet he has his good old Widow-to-the-Maker with him.


Also cool minor notes about a new Dwarf Siege Engine thing, and plastic vermin lord... good stuff.


Sadly my poor Ogres continue to receive the shaft.


EDIT: oh yeah... and i'd be willing to bet Slaanesh will get some love in End Times: Khaine, if only in the form that DoC (Slaanesh) and DE will get a unity list... which would be pretty sweet actually.

Dont be so quick to think the ogres get the shaft.........with combined profiles for mounts the hunter on stonehorn becomes viable!!!! that is a big win for us ogre players

That's very, very true. If you get combined profile, you can make a SICK ass hunter in no time flat. Still.... rules as written, that isn't quite the case yet.

What i meant more about the shaft is "no new model , ultimate... ogre-y... badass love" yet, haha.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
You will probably see Slaanesh in the rumored elves book. There were rumours of cult of slaanesh in book 2 but if book 3 is Kaine as rumours suggest you'll probably see it there.

I'm expecting Khorne tbh, given that the invasion of Naggawhateveroth was a primarily Khornate one lead by Valkia.

 thedarkavenger wrote:


My money is on Khaine being an avatar.

If they were smart, it would be, and it would be usable as a Craftworld Eldar Avatar for 40k as well... but they're not, because they missed a golden opportunity to have Nagash and the various other undead kits be dual 40k/fantasy releases, same with the Nurgle releases.

Think about how much more likely people would be to make the jump from one system to the other if they already had a few hundred points of minis that were cross compatible?

Hell, they missed a golden opportunity for Glottkin to be a proper-sized Great Unclean One.

Gragga Da Krumpa wrote:
Hell, they missed a golden opportunity for Glottkin to be a proper-sized Great Unclean One.

MIne is.