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but DE have hatred AND ASF. You're thinking martial prowess.

chaos0xomega wrote:
I dunno, IMO the units are pretty different from eachother, the diff between hatred and ASF makes a world of difference in how the units actually perform on the tabletop. Beyond that, High Elves tend to be more melee-centric while Dark elves tend to be more of a gunline, but thats just IMO.

Dark elf units win in the mirror match due to hatred. And Murderous prowess.

Oh forgot about that one.

IN any case, after revisiting some of the End Times fluff (and some research on other things), I'm revising my prediction:

Book 3 will feature Archaon and Skaven attacking whats left of humanity, as well as some events elsewhere, the list there will be the Empire/Brettonia combo.

Book 4 will be the Elves getting their gak together, possibly assisted by some Lizards, and (kinda but not really) saving the world, and will feature a combined elf list - I'm reasonably sure all the Elves will be united under new leadership, though I suspect that some units will be 'pruned' from this list (one example is that the End Times implies - outright states really - that everything in Ulthuan that wasn't an elf was corrupted into a Chaos monstrosity, so things like Lions of Chrace would cease to exist).

chaos0xomega wrote:
(one example is that the End Times implies - outright states really - that everything in Ulthuan that wasn't an elf was corrupted into a Chaos monstrosity, so things like Lions of Chrace would cease to exist).

I don't recall this bit, especially since Eltharion's griffon and that other princess chick's horsey was fine, where abouts was it?

Errr.... Id give you a page number if the page had a number? lol, its one of the first few pages of Book 1 of Nagash, 2nd paragraph, its the page specifically dealing with the high elves, right after the dark elves. Has an elven rune on it, first words are "On Ulthuan".

Second paragraph references that on a night with red lightning wild magic flowed throughout Ulthuan warping creatures and trees with the energy of chaos. Towards the end it says "Of all Ulthuans creatures only the elves were unaffected."

chaos0xomega wrote:
Errr.... Id give you a page number if the page had a number? lol, its one of the first few pages of Book 1 of Nagash, 2nd paragraph, its the page specifically dealing with the high elves, right after the dark elves. Has an elven rune on it, first words are "On Ulthuan".

Second paragraph references that on a night with red lightning wild magic flowed throughout Ulthuan warping creatures and trees with the energy of chaos. Towards the end it says "Of all Ulthuans creatures only the elves were unaffected."

That doesn't mean all creatures were turned. It just means all species other than elves were affected. That means there are probably other animals which are totally fine and no elf was mutated.

This is the importance of wording.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Errr.... Id give you a page number if the page had a number? lol, its one of the first few pages of Book 1 of Nagash, 2nd paragraph, its the page specifically dealing with the high elves, right after the dark elves. Has an elven rune on it, first words are "On Ulthuan".

Second paragraph references that on a night with red lightning wild magic flowed throughout Ulthuan warping creatures and trees with the energy of chaos. Towards the end it says "Of all Ulthuans creatures only the elves were unaffected."

It says that it was a mist moving across the land so I'd say that it probably gave enough time for the mages of Ulthuan to protect at least some areas of the island from the mist which is why their horses and stuff are fine.

Athough knowing GW
End times book III: No HE armies may take cav units, phoenixes, eagles or dragons, to represent that they all turned into chaos beats for the evulz.

Oh gak, shouldn't have given them any ideas lol.

Id assume the elves were somewhat successful as dragons and horses are referenced later in the book

 Krellnus wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Errr.... Id give you a page number if the page had a number? lol, its one of the first few pages of Book 1 of Nagash, 2nd paragraph, its the page specifically dealing with the high elves, right after the dark elves. Has an elven rune on it, first words are "On Ulthuan".

Second paragraph references that on a night with red lightning wild magic flowed throughout Ulthuan warping creatures and trees with the energy of chaos. Towards the end it says "Of all Ulthuans creatures only the elves were unaffected."

It says that it was a mist moving across the land so I'd say that it probably gave enough time for the mages of Ulthuan to protect at least some areas of the island from the mist which is why their horses and stuff are fine.

Athough knowing GW
End times book III: No HE armies may take cav units, phoenixes, eagles or dragons, to represent that they all turned into chaos beats for the evulz.

Oh gak, shouldn't have given them any ideas lol.

If only that were true in the case of the magical elf cavalry but no it isn't.

My money is on a an Empire and Bretonnian alliance. It's the most obvious one and, if GW are clever and position it carefully, either just before or just after a new Bretonnian book, it would boost sales for whichever one is released second.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see OnG with either Ogres or Skaven...

I keep trying to wrap my head around the OnG/Ogre/Skaven thing, none of it really makes sense given what we currently know about them. The Orks are waaaaghing, the Ogres are migrating (with Greasus declaring himself king of all Ogres), and the Skaven are... err... skavening. Besides that, Skaven are one of the better selling factions (and perhaps one of the most unique and defensible GW WHFB IP's, so I dont see the need for them to fold them into something else).

The only thing I can think of is that they go to a 5 book system:
Undead
Chaos
Elves
Humans
Unaligned Forces (OnG, Ogres, Dwarves, Skaven, Lizardmen)

chaos0xomega wrote:
Skaven are... err... skavening.

Uhhh, the horned rat has physically manifested himself & taken his place at the 13th seat on the council. This is HUGE as skaven are usually too busy infighting to do anything too serious but if the horned rat is here they could likely be united.

While it is shrouded in mystery as of yet, this isn't just "skavening" this is huge. Like A GOD has physically manifested himself in the world huge.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Skaven are... err... skavening.

Uhhh, the horned rat has physically manifested himself & taken his place at the 13th seat on the council. This is HUGE as skaven are usually too busy infighting to do anything too serious but if the horned rat is here they could likely be united.

While it is shrouded in mystery as of yet, this isn't just "skavening" this is huge. Like A GOD has physically manifested himself in the world huge.

You mean like Nagash or Sigmar.

Nagash and Sigmar are heroic mortals returned from the grave (Fate/Stay Night reference? nah).

The Horned Rat was never a mortal, it's more along the lines of Isha or Tzeentch.

Not sure if GW is still aware of G&O being a thing.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Nagash and Sigmar are heroic mortals returned from the grave (Fate/Stay Night reference? nah).

The Horned Rat was never a mortal, it's more along the lines of Isha or Tzeentch.

In the tilean folktale that describes what happened to kavzar (it was destroyed by the cursed bell and holds utmost importance to the skaven creation) the strange wanderer was never really described. It could've been the horned rat under a mortal guise, it could've been a mortal with magical power or even a sort of underling of the horned rat (since i think the top of the tower he added a gift to his god). Point being perhaps the horned rat has become manifest at more than one point like a being with no true form.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Skaven are... err... skavening.

Uhhh, the horned rat has physically manifested himself & taken his place at the 13th seat on the council. This is HUGE as skaven are usually too busy infighting to do anything too serious but if the horned rat is here they could likely be united.

While it is shrouded in mystery as of yet, this isn't just "skavening" this is huge. Like A GOD has physically manifested himself in the world huge.

Wasn't even aware of that. I should probably read the fluff...

Edit: dammit, quoted the wrong quote. Sigh.


Here's the thing ; they're trying to unify up armies so the game is easier to update and maintain on the whole. Several of their corporate releases have stated strategic challenges with Warhammer are the sheer number of armies and the buy-in required to hook new players. They've alrady taken a huge first step towards reducing initial buyin costs ; raising hero %'s in list construction.

Regarding unification, It makes almost no sense to exclude wood elves unless they are going away in the future. Take a good long look at the new wood elf codex ; there is more of an emphasis than ever on wood elves being the balanced middle ground between the honorable but haughty high elves, and the tenacious but sadistic dark elves.

I think Elves Undivided will be a thing, and if it is, it will encompass all three flavors of elvendom. So far we have all the evidence to suggest a similar paradigm: Nagash unifies all the dead things, GLottkin unifies all the chaotic armies (meaning warriors, beasts, and demons - it even goes so far as to "extra chaosify" beastmen), if there was an elf book it stands to reason / stands up to occam's razor that it will unify all the elves.

Also note subtle wordings in rules like "if the majority of models in this unit are from this codex" Doesn't that wording raise your eyebrow a tad ? Isn't it odd that all elves now have ASF in addition their greater or lesser other unique rules ?


All roads point towards at least the ability to unify all flavors much like Legions of Chaos or Legions of Undeath.

Hmmm... I just can't see anything bringing the three Elven armies together. Having Wood Elves able to ally with either of the other elven armies (but not both in the same list), I can see happening, and I'd be pretty happy with that and would probably buy some Wood Elves because of it, but Dark Elves and High Elves just hate each other too much for them to ever fight alongside each other.

Perhaps GW will do it, for purely financial/lazy reasons, but I would certainly not approve of the move. I think there are far more, sensible yet equally profitable combinations out there.

Neither the dark nor the high elves can truly be described as unified factions, Nagash book makes it pretty clear that there are various subfactions within the dark elves that would seek to overthrow malekith and/or other authority figures (and implies that he attempted to have his own mother killed during Valkias invasion). It also makes it pretty clear that the High Elves are currently fighting a civil war, with at least one region of Ulthuan fully seceding from the throne, as well as a heavy amount of intrigue going on (some implication that malekith is responsible for the death of Finubar with the assistance of certain high elf characters).

Beyond that its been said that the end result of the end times is to leave the warhammer world in a sort of post apocalyptic state. IIRC its stated that Brettonia has lost more than half of its civilian population and the majority of its military forces, and the Empire about a quarter civilian pop and half of its military. I would expect the elves to see something similar to that happen with the elves, leaving only a fragment of their former strength intact and forcing them to unite in a fight for survival.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/11/breaking-wfb-endtimes-khaine-is-coming.html


Interesting.


Not sure i believe the bit abotu "no models accompanying it". Or maybe i just don't want to believe it, heh.

Just saw that! KITBASHING my dreams into reality!!

 Haight wrote:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/11/breaking-wfb-endtimes-khaine-is-coming.html


Interesting.


Not sure i believe the bit abotu "no models accompanying it". Or maybe i just don't want to believe it, heh.

No models does seem somewhat unusual. It would be pretty easy for them to do an WHFB Avatar of Khaine (or similar) model as well. I can certainly see them doing more than 3 books though. From what I can tell, they've been a big hit all over, so there's no reason for GW to stop doing them when there's still material to be covered.

I was hoping to see all 4 Daemon armies get updated stuff, but I guess its only going to be Nurgle themed armies with new stuff.

They all need an update. Badly.

Its not like they cant add in non-nurgle stuff in the elves/humans books...

You will probably see Slaanesh in the rumored elves book. There were rumours of cult of slaanesh in book 2 but if book 3 is Kaine as rumours suggest you'll probably see it there.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
You will probably see Slaanesh in the rumored elves book. There were rumours of cult of slaanesh in book 2 but if book 3 is Kaine as rumours suggest you'll probably see it there.

Seeing lists for the cult of slaanesh and cult of kaine would be awesome. As the pattern is showing there will be some kind of unified elf army though. I just hope it fits some kind of theme though the legions of chaos and undead legions didnt really show too much theme they just smashed a few books together with no restrictions.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/11/wfb-end-times-upcoming-models-latest.html


BAM... Hastings seems to confirm that the earlier report of "no models" for End Times: Khaine is bs. It looks like Khaine is going to walk the old world again, and i'll bet he has his good old Widow-to-the-Maker with him.


Also cool minor notes about a new Dwarf Siege Engine thing, and plastic vermin lord... good stuff.


Sadly my poor Ogres continue to receive the shaft.


EDIT: oh yeah... and i'd be willing to bet Slaanesh will get some love in End Times: Khaine, if only in the form that DoC (Slaanesh) and DE will get a unity list... which would be pretty sweet actually.

 Haight wrote:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/11/wfb-end-times-upcoming-models-latest.html


BAM... Hastings seems to confirm that the earlier report of "no models" for End Times: Khaine is bs. It looks like Khaine is going to walk the old world again, and i'll bet he has his good old Widow-to-the-Maker with him.


Also cool minor notes about a new Dwarf Siege Engine thing, and plastic vermin lord... good stuff.


Sadly my poor Ogres continue to receive the shaft.


EDIT: oh yeah... and i'd be willing to bet Slaanesh will get some love in End Times: Khaine, if only in the form that DoC (Slaanesh) and DE will get a unity list... which would be pretty sweet actually.

Dont be so quick to think the ogres get the shaft.........with combined profiles for mounts the hunter on stonehorn becomes viable!!!! that is a big win for us ogre players

 Haight wrote:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/11/wfb-end-times-upcoming-models-latest.html


BAM... Hastings seems to confirm that the earlier report of "no models" for End Times: Khaine is bs. It looks like Khaine is going to walk the old world again, and i'll bet he has his good old Widow-to-the-Maker with him.


Also cool minor notes about a new Dwarf Siege Engine thing, and plastic vermin lord... good stuff.


Sadly my poor Ogres continue to receive the shaft.


EDIT: oh yeah... and i'd be willing to bet Slaanesh will get some love in End Times: Khaine, if only in the form that DoC (Slaanesh) and DE will get a unity list... which would be pretty sweet actually.

My money is on Khaine being an avatar.

I also want Caledor Dragontamer to come out of the vortex, as it's been established that he's not dead in there. They could also do something with the Prophecy of Demise then!

But seriously, don't unite elves folks. I already broke it if it happens.

For 2400: Loremaster on Frostheart, Caradryan on Frostheart. 600 points of Dark riders(5 units), 4 bolt throwers in special, 14 Wild Riders, and Bolt Throwers in rare.