Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Like I said, if we see "combined Elves"?

I do not think it will be Wood Elves+High Elves+Dark Elves. I think it will just be High Elves and Dark Elves, seeing as how it is Malekith working with Teclis.

Although I guess I could see a second Combined Elves list which is Wood Elves and High Elves, led by Tyrion and the Everqueen...

I disagree, Dark Elves and High Elves are both good sellers, Wood Elves are the weak man in the room and the faction that needs to be propped up the most, ergo it stands to reason that they are the ones that will be combined, if any. The fact that Malekith and Teclis are working together, plus the whole Darkblade plotline leads me to believe that there will be a conjoining of Dark and High Elves as well. The end result of this would be a three way union rather than two two-way unions.

The one thing I dislike about the combined books is the lack of any negatives to taking the list. You can completely mix any units, any heros, ect. You can combine the best of tk with vc and same for chaos. There really is no drawback for not taking the legions over an individual book. I think there needs to be some kind of penalty to doing so simply because now theres no reason what so ever to take just the vc book or just the WoC book over the legions.

I would expect that if and when they get around to updating Fantasy you would see a great rebalancing of the combined forces.

Legions of Humanity, of some sort, including Kislev - Bretts - and Empire.

One could only hope that Kislev would be brought in, although with the revelation that Kislev has ceased to exist it doesn't seem likely. I had hoped we might see a return of the Dogs of War/Regiments of Renown and perhaps some Estalia/Tilea/Araby/Nihon/Cathay/Ind influences, etc. but with the revelation that Estalia and Tilea are now evidently Skaven-land, it seems unlikely as well.

I am hoping that the combined armies will be rebalanced but knowing gw balance isnt their forte.

I could see kislev being brought into an army of man even though kislev was destroyed there are still kislev armies still out there. I highly doubt it though because they wont make any kislev minitures so thats out....

If they do skaven it'll probably be skaven with orcs and goblins. You guys remember the goblin wars (think that's the name) which included all green skins as well as skaven.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
If they do skaven it'll probably be skaven with orcs and goblins. You guys remember the goblin wars (think that's the name) which included all green skins as well as skaven.

I could see a split book involving all the "neutral" factions such as OnG, skaven, and OK but i doubt the orcs and ogres will get much play in the grand scheme of things. Hopefully that with something this big nothing is left out.

I'm sort of surprised they didn't do a beastmen, skaven and O&G book actually. They're the most inhuman of the factions. Possibly lizardmen, skaven and O&G will happen then.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I'm sort of surprised they didn't do a beastmen, skaven and O&G book actually. They're the most inhuman of the factions.

Perhaps, but the Beastmen serve the Chaos Gods. They are the Children of Chaos, after all.

Well it's odd to me because skaven have fought alongside greenskins even if for a bit but i don't know of skaven or greenskins aligning themselves with lizardmen. I always thought lizardmen hated outsiders. Not to mention according to the skaven one greater clan nearly destroyed the lizardmen. Not sure if that's true or the skaven army book throwing it out in the skaven's perspective.

Perhaps two factions is enough for one book? I mean the first was just vampire counts and tomb kings. When you think about it 2 is probably enough for a book.

Then one book will be dedicated to the human empires/kingdoms and possibly dwarfs. Elves get a book or possibly they do a high elf, dwarf and empire book. Then they do a wood elf and bretonnia book. In that case i wouldn't know where to pair the dark elves (with skaven?). Ogres could also pair up with O&G so it's hard to say.

I dunno i still say skaven and O&G makes the most sense for them. The skaven have fought with the greenskins before and after the fight one side betrays the other. Orcs are dull as the skaven book says but goblins are more clever.

As far as the Elves book goes (whether that's book 3 or not I have no idea), it wouldn't be beyond belief that they will combine all three factions.

There's mention in Nagash that a certain God(dess) opened up a portal for Araloth and his army to go through to help where the elves need it most.

So assuming he had one of each unit in his army at the time, then the wood elves could easily be rolled into the new combined elf book.

I think if you're expecting Skaven/Dwarves/Ogres/Orcs to get much love out of this you're going to be pretty disappointed (sad because I collect Ogres and Skaven).

Yeah, I agree. I can't really see Skaven/Orcs/Ogres being mixed together in any combination.

They are too independant with similar goals but differing methods. Whereas the undead was a simple combination with the arrival of Nagash. Chaos is back where it was before, and the elves once shared a history and now share a semi-common goal (in the continuation of their race).

But Skaven, Orcs and Ogres, while potentially temporary allies at times, have such different belief systems that I can't see them working together enough to have their own combined book.
Unless its an "enemies of everyone else" book

Ogres will be the last book. When they finally eat everyone, and then the Maw eats the entire world.

Stay hungry my friends

What I find funny is all the people saying "oh noes, it doesn't make sense to mix Skavens, OnG, Ogres and such together, there's no ground for it!"
While at the same time "oh yeah, Dark and High Elves, the two races that hate each other the most, even more than Skavens and LM. Now THAT makes total sense, of course !"

Unlike Ogres, Orcs, Dwarves, Skaven, and Lizardmen, the elven intrigue has been a major element of the plot thus far. GW can make it make sense, its their setting after all.

 TanKoL wrote:
What I find funny is all the people saying "oh noes, it doesn't make sense to mix Skavens, OnG, Ogres and such together, there's no ground for it!"
While at the same time "oh yeah, Dark and High Elves, the two races that hate each other the most, even more than Skavens and LM. Now THAT makes total sense, of course !"

It's not a question of "Dark and High Elves".

It's Malekith(also known as "The Witch King of Naggaroth" and the direct son of Aenarion, the first Phoenix King) and his distant relative Teclis(the Archmage of Saphery, also of the line of Aenarion) that are collaborating to ensure that Nagash and the other forces fighting Chaos are able to do so.

Both of those individuals will command a lot of loyalty from members of their respective races. It would not be unlikely to see the non-Khainite Cult units that are sworn to Malekith(the Warriors, Black Guard, Cold One Knights, Dreadlords and Masters, etc) make an appearance with their equivalent units in the High Elf list that can reasonably be associated with Hoeth(Spearmen/Archers, Silver Helms, Swordmasters, Great Eagles, Archmages/Mages and the Loremasters).

Not unbelievable as well that the Phoenix Guard could make an appearance since they're sworn to Asuryan and not any one Phoenix King.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Triple_double_U wrote:
As far as the Elves book goes (whether that's book 3 or not I have no idea), it wouldn't be beyond belief that they will combine all three factions.

There's mention in Nagash that a certain God(dess) opened up a portal for Araloth and his army to go through to help where the elves need it most.

So assuming he had one of each unit in his army at the time, then the wood elves could easily be rolled into the new combined elf book.

There's a reason why I've been suggesting that we might see TWO different Elf lists rather than one.

Araloth and his forces were waylaid by Lileath, the Elven Goddess of Dreams and Fortune. Lileath is pretty closely tied to the High Elves rather than the Wood or Dark Elves, but it's also worth noting that Lileath is more commonly associated with the Shadow Warriors and Alith-Anar despite Teclis bearing one of the three gifts she gave to the Elves.

I think it will either be Skaven (in which case it would be great for some new weird rat mutations to be released) or High Elves (my favourite Warhammer army!) in which it would be great for a new Lord or Hero model to be released that competes with the likes of Nagash and The Glottkin.

You also need to remember at the end of the day elves are still elves. You may hate your brother, but hes still your brother. If anyone else tries to pick on him you're gonna kick that guys ass.

The DE & HE disagree on one main thing. Who should rule. The DE feel cheated, and betrayed that the rightful king is not on the throne.

To put in in perspective. Both the Athens and Sparta didn't really like each other. They fought a lot. But they were both greeks. When the persians came they set aside their difference of oppinions to fight the common enemy.

So combined elves can make sense story wise. I just feel the power level would be utterly insane. "Oh look I'll just walk between worlds this witch elf horde right behind you..." Now eat 8 bolt throwers.

One can only hope that Malekith betrays Teclis and the Dark Elves don't sell out by joining the High Elves.

There would be too much unnecessary overlap to merge them together. It would make sense to put armies capable of complimenting one another in respective alliances (but I'm not an expert in the fluff, so i'm sure it'd take some creativity there).

One can only hope for more diversity.

wfr12n wrote:
One can only hope that Malekith betrays Teclis and the Dark Elves don't sell out by joining the High Elves.

There are a lot of warring factions within the Dark Elf society.

Malekith has some forces that are for all intents and purposes loyal to him, and only to him. The Black Guard and those Dreadlords and Masters who started their rise to power among the ranks of his Black Guard are far from being a minority. Add to it that the rank and file seem to still look up to him as he is still the son of Aenarion and that makes for a big cult of personality centered around Malekith.

But then you have the Khainite faction, who are loyal to Hellebron. The Witch Elves, the Executioners, and the Khainite Assassins all fall under this umbrella. I'd also put the various cities of Naggaroth and their rulers along with the Fleetmasters in this umbrella as they would have forces and resources loyal only to them.

And then finally you have Morathi, Malekith's mother. Ostensibly she is loyal to Malekith but as the fluff we've had on the relationship between the two is elaborated, you have it coming out that she is building up a power base for herself among the Northern tribes and trying to refound the Pleasure Cults within Naggaroth.

There would be too much unnecessary overlap to merge them together. It would make sense to put armies capable of complimenting one another in respective alliances (but I'm not an expert in the fluff, so i'm sure it'd take some creativity there).
One can only hope for more diversity.

Honestly there is very little in the way of "diversity" with the lists we have gotten so far, but it does open up some new ways to play.

How that would work with the Elves? I don't know for sure.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

So combined elves can make sense story wise. I just feel the power level would be utterly insane. "Oh look I'll just walk between worlds this witch elf horde right behind you..." Now eat 8 bolt throwers.

You've got it all wrong! It's a dragon prince banner of the world dragon bus. backed up by 6-8 bolt throwers, frosties, warlocks and dark riders.

Y'all are aware that there are still restrictions on the number of special/rare choices you can take, right?

also, dont forget darkblade ,word on the street there may be a prophecy about him usurping the Dark Elf throne.

Kanluwen wrote:Like I said, if we see "combined Elves"?

I do not think it will be Wood Elves+High Elves+Dark Elves. I think it will just be High Elves and Dark Elves, seeing as how it is Malekith working with Teclis.

Although I guess I could see a second Combined Elves list which is Wood Elves and High Elves, led by Tyrion and the Everqueen...

Here's how I reckon they'll get the Wood elves involved with the Malekith/Teclis alliance:

Alarielle has vanished. She's vanished into her wood, which as we know, is mystically linked to Athel Loren.

Alarielle is communing with Isha (Ariel). They will, at some point, re-emerge as a combined avatar, providing the Elves with their Nagash/Glottkin kit. This then leaves Malekith, Teclis and (hopefully Naieth, but probably Alaroth) as their Morghast/Maggoth kit.

That would make sense...if Teclis was not keeping his alliance with Malekith secret from Tyrion.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Y'all are aware that there are still restrictions on the number of special/rare choices you can take, right?

also, dont forget darkblade ,word on the street there may be a prophecy about him usurping the Dark Elf throne.

Yeah. Two units of warlocks at 125 apiece, and a frosty at 230-odd.

 Kanluwen wrote:
That would make sense...if Teclis was not keeping his alliance with Malekith secret from Tyrion.

Ah.

Not unsustainable, but sigh. Maybe the Wood Elven influence will have Alarielle simply tell Tyrion to suck it up once he finds out?

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
That would make sense...if Teclis was not keeping his alliance with Malekith secret from Tyrion.

Ah.

Not unsustainable, but sigh. Maybe the Wood Elven influence will have Alarielle simply tell Tyrion to suck it up once he finds out?

Or alternatively we have the start of another Sundering...

... thought.

Maybe the reason Forest Spirits got nerfed in the Wood Elf book, and Wildwood Rangers are a general military thing now, is because they're planning a Forest Spirits End Times army led by Coeddil and Drycha as the Wildwood bursts its boundaries and joins up with the Forces of Disorder in a rebellion against the ancient compacts?

This forces the Wood Elves to join up with the High Elves or some other Forces of Order army just to survive, and of course, being Neutrals, whoever they side with is going to have someone now whispering in their ear that some Disorder things are worth delving into for the power to protect their homes...

I keep thinking that, if the Elven armies were combined, then the overlap in elite-infantry-that-dies-fast camp would be incredible. I mean, you have essentially 8 or 9 variations on that one concept to choose from at that point. Not to mention the same situation for fast cavalry and heavy cavalry, though to a far lesser extent.

I would really love to add an autumnal coloured Treeman model to my High Elves, though. And Warlocks, but I'd only ever use them against a regular opponent who abused the hell out of them before he sold his Dark Elves...

I don't care. I'm kitbashing all of my elves. Elven supremacy!!!

 Charles Rampant wrote:
I keep thinking that, if the Elven armies were combined, then the overlap in elite-infantry-that-dies-fast camp would be incredible. I mean, you have essentially 8 or 9 variations on that one concept to choose from at that point. Not to mention the same situation for fast cavalry and heavy cavalry, though to a far lesser extent.

How would that be different from the current Undead or Legions of Chaos lists?

Other than Tomb Guard/Grave Guard and rank-file skeletons, there really isn't much overlap.

The units in each book are markedly different from each other.

Snakemen, Catapuls, and Sphinx are nothing like Terrorgheists Black Knights, Crypt Horrors.

Even the generic Kings and Princes are not at all like the generic Vampires.

Everything in HE and DE have a strict "high / dark " elf version for the most part.

I dunno, IMO the units are pretty different from eachother, the diff between hatred and ASF makes a world of difference in how the units actually perform on the tabletop. Beyond that, High Elves tend to be more melee-centric while Dark elves tend to be more of a gunline, but thats just IMO.